[01:08] <dooglus> is it worth reporting edgy bugs in launchpad yet, or should I leave them unreported?
[01:09] <jdub> go for it
[01:10] <dooglus> ok, I'll go for it
[03:26] <Hobbsee> morning all
[03:31] <jdub> howdy Hobbsee 
[03:31] <Hobbsee> heya jdub! you're up early!
[03:31] <ajmitch> or late
[03:31] <jdub> other way around :)
[03:31] <ajmitch> hello jdub 
[03:31] <jjesse> maybe he just hasn't been to bed
[03:31] <Hobbsee> ouch.  crazy.
[03:31] <jdub> yo ajmitch 
[03:31] <jdub> crazy is a good word for ubuntu developer summits
[03:32] <Hobbsee> heh
[03:32] <mjg59> jdub: I have the pants
[03:33] <jdub> mjg59: you're a bloody legend, thank you so much
[03:33] <mjg59> When do you get to Spain?
[03:33] <jdub> um
[03:33] <jdub> i forget
[03:33] <mjg59> And how well do you remember them?
[03:33] <jdub> the wiki knows
[03:33] <mjg59> Just in case.
[03:33] <mjg59> Ahem.
[03:33] <jdub> ha ha
[03:33] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:33] <jdub> they're brown corduroy :)
[03:33] <mjg59> Excellent
[03:34] <mjg59> If all else fails, I'll substitute them with the ones I'm wearing at the moment
[03:34] <jdub> how's awes doing?
[03:34] <jdub> er
[03:34] <jdub> aes
[03:34] <mjg59> Fine
[03:34] <mjg59> Just finished his third year, hoping to make guadec next year
[03:34] <jdub> cool
[03:34] <mjg59> Which seems foolish, since he'll probably be graduating or something
[03:35] <mjg59> jdub: Oh, Fiona's coming to guadec
[03:35] <mjg59> So you can laugh at each other again
[03:35] <jdub> sweet
[03:35] <mjg59> And we can recount the tale of your fight against the circle line
[03:35] <jdub> dude, we were laughing at you
[03:35] <mjg59> Damnit
[03:35] <jdub> hrm
[03:35] <jdub> well
[03:36] <jdub> that was laughable
[03:36] <Hobbsee> hehe...who's fiona?
[03:36] <mjg59> Hobbsee: My girlfriend
[03:36] <Hobbsee> ah
[03:36] <mjg59> Jeff met her after utterly failing to navigate the London public transport system
[03:36] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:36] <mjg59> "Jeff, we need to be at dinner in 15 minutes"
[03:36] <Hobbsee> well, he's a sydney sider.  we dont have a working reliable public transport system.
[03:36] <mjg59> "Right. I'm sort of still in London"
[03:37] <Hobbsee> haha
[03:37] <Hobbsee> you cant blame him for being shocked over something actuallyl operating well enough to use - and so therefore not being able to use it
[03:37] <jdub> ours is perfectly reliable
[03:37] <Hobbsee> hey now!  that's not fair!
[03:37] <jdub> now they've changed the timetables to make it easier to suck less
[03:37] <mjg59> It would have been fine if he'd got on the right train
[03:37] <mjg59> Rather than the ghetto one
[03:37] <Hobbsee> sure, as long as you dont expect it to follow the timetable :P
[03:38] <jdub> i totally went the wrong way around the circle line
[03:38] <Hobbsee> haha
[03:38] <RadiantFire> Atlanta's public transit is perfectly reliable, it just doesn't go anywhere useful
[03:38] <jdub> uh... that's right.. it's in atlanta!
[03:45] <RadiantFire> whats in atlanta?
[03:45] <jdub> Atlanta's public transit
[03:46] <RadiantFire> mmm, the joys of MARTA, using token machines that are older than I am
[03:46] <Hobbsee> trees?
[04:14] <dilinger> infinity: ping?
[04:14] <neuralis> dilinger: it's 4:04am in paris.
[04:14] <neuralis> er, 4:14.
[04:14] <dilinger> ah
[04:15] <dilinger> i was going to ask him whether new upstream releases for security updates are going to be the norm for dapper :/
[04:16] <neuralis> that's crack. no, of course not.
[04:17] <neuralis> some things get EOL'd by upstream, however, and backporting just isn't feasible.
[04:17] <dilinger> well, the specific instance that caught my eye was the mysql-server update
[04:18] <dilinger> Preparing to replace mysql-server-5.0 5.0.21-3ubuntu1 (using .../mysql-server-5.0_5.0.22-0ubuntu6.06_i386.deb) ...
[04:18] <dilinger> it looks like that included not only a new upstream release, but some additional debian releases as well
[04:19] <neuralis> it was probably judged as safe and reasonable, probably a minor bugfix release, so a backport wouldn't make sense.
[04:19] <Lathiat> well if the minor upstream release was simply the bugfix then it would make some sense i guess
[04:19] <Lathiat> check the changelog
[04:20] <dilinger> i did
[04:20] <dilinger> it's not simply the bugfix
[04:20] <dilinger> it makes me a bit nervous to see that kind of thing
[04:21] <neuralis> 5.0.22: "This is a security fix release for the previous production release family."
[04:21] <dilinger>   * Upstream fixes REPAIR TABLE problem. Closes: #354300
[04:21] <dilinger>   * Upstream fixes problem that empty strings in varchar and text columns
[04:21] <dilinger>     are displayed as NULL. Closes: #368663
[04:21] <neuralis> http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/news-5-0-22.html
[04:22] <dilinger>   * SECURITY: This upstream release fixes an SQL-injection with multibyte
[04:22] <dilinger>     encoding problem. (CVE-2006-2753)
[04:22] <Lathiat> http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/news-5-0-22.html
[04:22] <Lathiat> its entirely a security bug fix release
[04:22] <neuralis> Lathiat: one step ahead of you ;)
[04:22] <Lathiat> heh
[04:22] <neuralis> Lathiat: anyway, find better things to worry about, this is totally sane.
[04:22] <neuralis> er, dilinger: --^
[04:23] <dilinger> Lathiat: it is not entirely a security bug fix release
[04:23] <dilinger> one of the things listed in the upstream changlog is a fix for not compiling w/ -fPIC on sparc and amd64
[04:23] <dilinger> while i agree that it's certainly a bug, it's not security related
[04:24] <dilinger> my fear is that i'm going to switch servers over to dapper, and then dapper will start pulling in all sorts of new upstream releases
[04:24] <neuralis> dilinger: find better things to fear?
[04:25] <neuralis> dilinger: your concern is unfounded.
[04:25] <dilinger> that's a very valid fear when you're attempting to keep a couple hundred servers stable
[04:25] <Lathiat> the fixes in upstream seem all to be justifiable to me, if not, open a bug / query teh person who uploaded it?
[04:25] <dilinger> Lathiat: that's what i was doing
[04:25] <dilinger> well, attempting to do
[07:21] <jmg> can i participate in paris meeting from here?
[07:23] <Hobbsee> jmg: sorta.  not really.  there are sessions on gobby, and occasionally teamspeak
[07:24] <jmg> sad
[07:24] <jmg> they are discussing my specs
[07:25] <jmg> and i dont even get to participate
[07:26] <Hobbsee> i didnt think they were discussing specs if the spec writer wasnt in paris
[07:27] <jmg> i wrote two and they got accepted
[07:29] <Hobbsee> jmg: um, IIRC, they're not discussing *all* the specs - just the ones where the people are in paris
[07:31] <jmg> ok
[07:32] <jmg> ill try and find mdz
[07:33] <Hobbsee> jmg: good luck, i'ts about 7.30am there
[07:33] <Hobbsee> hi raphink 
[07:33] <raphink> hi Hobbsee
[07:35] <jmg> heh, bug #1
[07:35] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in Baltix "Microsoft has a majority market share" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
[07:35] <Hobbsee> yeah
[07:36] <Hobbsee> i recall some of the comments benig pretty funny
[07:36] <jmg> yes they are
[07:38] <raphink> they're great :)
[08:29] <infinity> dilinger: Pong?
[08:29] <fabbione> hey infinity 
[08:29] <fabbione> morning guys
[08:29] <Hobbsee> hi infinity and fabbione 
[08:30] <fabbione> hey Hobbsee 
[08:30] <TheMuso> Morning all.
[08:30] <dilinger> infinity: see my bit about the mysql security update
[08:31] <Hobbsee> hi TheMuso 
[08:33] <infinity> dilinger: It was a conscious decision, based on the fact that we wanted .22 before release, but it didn't happen.
[08:33] <infinity> dilinger: It's not going to be a continuing theme, I assure you.
[08:34] <infinity> dilinger: We just figured that "right after release, before everyone has stabilised thundreds of systems, we can probably afford a few larger-than-usual updates for bugfixes"
[08:37] <dilinger> infinity: ok.  that's good to hear
[08:38] <infinity> dilinger: Don't worry, I share your fear.  This particular update just felt justified, based on the timing.  I think we're already too late now to pull the same trick again withoug feeling rather guilty about it.
[08:40] <dilinger> infinity: yea, i was just a bit surprised to see it... especially given your background :)
[08:40] <dilinger> infinity: you'd be the last person i'd expect to blindly trust upstream
[08:41] <dilinger> infinity: so i figured it was justified, i just wanted to make sure it wasn't going to be something that was just done out of momentum
[08:42] <infinity> No, no, you're safe.  Martin and I weren't simultaenously hit in the head with a bat or anything.
[08:42] <pitti> infinity: ?
[08:43] <dilinger> hehe, excellent
[08:43] <Mithrandir> infinity: we could arrange that, however.
[08:44] <infinity> pitti: Explaining that the recent "slightly more than just security fixes in our security updates" policy with, eg, PostgreSQL and MySQL isn't going to be the norm for the life of dapper.
[08:46] <pitti> infinity: ah
[08:53] <TheMuso> /c
[09:01] <dholbach> sfllaw: "There are 100 direct members of the "Ubuntu BugSquad" team"!!!!111!!
[09:02] <Hobbsee> dholbach: wow!  i didnt think it was that many when i joined
[09:06] <raphink> dholbach: might I be the 101st ?
[09:08] <Hobbsee> seems weird that the kubuntu-members team isnt part of the bugs team - seeing as they all seem to end up fixing a lot of bugs.
[09:09] <dholbach> raphink: sure :)
[09:09] <raphink> :)
[09:24] <TheMuso> Riddell: What time do you want kubuntu-accessibility? I haven't seen Henrik this morning however.
[09:24] <TheMuso> And I don't have anything officially scheduled today.
[09:25] <TheMuso> Sorry it is at 15:00
[09:25] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: is he even awake yet?  :P
[09:26] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: he wasn't feeling very well at all yesterday. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't make an appearance.
[09:26] <[hawk] > Hello, I did a stupid thing so I'll ask a stupid question: how do I find files that are not installed by any package?
[09:26] <TheMuso> But we need to have that bof anyway.
[09:27] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: ouch, i think he went to bed at around 3.30am this morning, too
[09:27] <TheMuso> Oh ok?
[09:27] <Amaranth> [hawk] : locale <file> Next time please ask in #ubuntu.
[09:27] <[hawk] > I'm asking it here because I could not find a solution on the docs... nor on the #ubuntu channe!
[09:27] <Amaranth> err, locate
[09:27] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: unless someone else borrowed his computer, and pretended to be him :P
[09:28] <TheMuso> heh
[09:29] <[hawk] > Amaranth: maybe my question was not clear... I would like to find which files are on the filesystem but not owned by any package.
[09:29] <Amaranth> [hawk] : ah
[09:29] <mdke> [hawk] : that's not how it works. This channel isn't a fallback for support if other methods don't help
[09:29] <Amaranth> hmm
[09:29] <Keybuk> Day Five in the Big BOFfer house ...
[09:29] <Keybuk> ...lifeless is in the Dairy room
[09:29] <Hobbsee> hi Keybuk!
[09:29] <TheMuso> heh
[09:29] <jsgotangco> hmmmm
[09:30] <[hawk] > mkde: If I don't get a positive anwer (I think there is not a way to do this) I will request this feature as a wish-liist item...
[09:31] <[hawk] > mdke: sorry for mistyping your name :-)
[09:32] <mdke> [hawk] : no problem. Sure, you could do that.
[09:32] <Amaranth> [hawk] : It's not something you could do easily or quickly, that's for sure.
[09:32] <Amaranth> [hawk] : I imagine it would take 24 hours or so on your basic system
[09:33] <[hawk] > mkde, Amaranth: I think knowing if a file is coherent with the dpkd database is a nice (securirty) feature. But if it takes 24h...
[09:33] <infinity> Amaranth: If "find /" and comparing with dpkg list files takes 24 hours on your system, you either have a really slow hard disk, or WAY more packages installed than I.
[09:34] <[hawk] > mdke: sorry again!
[09:34] <Amaranth> infinity: heh, i overestimate
[09:34] <Amaranth> i would take the contents of dpkg --get-selections, parse it and feed it into dpkg -L <package name>, then compare to the results of find /
[09:35] <Amaranth> find / takes about 5 seconds
[09:35] <Amaranth> you could probably do it in an hour
[09:36] <[hawk] > infinity, Amaranth: thank you very much. That way I find what files are not installed by dpkg (more or less becouse for example files in /usr/local are generated by postinstall scripts)....
[09:41] <sivang> morning all
[09:43] <Amaranth> [hawk] : unless i've done something wrong http://rafb.net/paste/results/Jzhjnu41.html should do what you want
[09:44] <Amaranth> it'll probably take awhile
[09:49] <Amaranth> 6 minutes, i'm not going to let it run anymore :P
[09:50] <Lathiat> theres a utility called debsums
[09:50] <Lathiat> that goes and compares all the md5sums to the package sums
[09:51] <Lathiat> could be usefull too
[09:53] <jsgotangco> sivang: do we still have a discussion later on home user backup? it seems done already
[09:56] <david`bgk> hi
[09:59] <david`bgk> I'd like to contact sabdfl quickly, anyone know how to proceed? (french phone number will be awsome)
[10:01] <sivang> jsgotangco: nope, I've set it up so it won't need anhy more discussion
[10:01] <jsgotangco> nice!
[10:01] <jsgotangco> david`bgk: go to the hotel?
[10:02] <sivang> jsgotangco: being reviewed by Ian at the moment
[10:02] <sivang> :-)
[10:02] <jsgotangco> yeah i saw the spec email
[10:10] <david`bgk> jsgotangco, I've two possibilities (for lunch or at 6pm) to meet him and I want to know which is the most pertinent, in fact when he will have free time
[10:11] <david`bgk> did you know if mark leave paris tonight?
[10:12] <Keybuk> he does
[10:13] <david`bgk> so he leave meeting at 6pm or he have some time to speak?
[10:21] <Keybuk> no idea
[10:21] <Keybuk> speak about what to whom?
[10:21] <Keybuk> have you spoken to Claire?
[10:23] <TheMuso> Has anybody seen Henrik this morning?
[10:25] <david`bgk> I'd like to speak with Mark about French support in France, state of oss and ubuntu-fr projects, the president of the AFUL association (one of the most famous oss association in France will be present too)
[10:26] <jsgotangco> you could have tried earlier its going to be a tight day today
[10:26] <jsgotangco> well it is already that is
[10:27] <david`bgk> I've no doubt about that :)
[10:27] <david`bgk> my situation is a bit complicated those days
[10:28] <Keybuk> david`bgk: I'd suggest you contact his PA
[10:28] <david`bgk> sorry, what is PA?
[10:29] <Keybuk> Personal Assistant
[10:30] <Keybuk> e-mail mark.shuttleworth@canonical.com
[10:41] <sladen> TheMuso: http://www.paul.sladen.org/ubuntu/upload/espeak-1.10-data-paths.diff
[10:43] <TheMuso> Thanks heaps.
[10:43] <TheMuso> Much appreciated.
[11:01] <jmg> iwj
[11:02] <jmg> ping
[11:02] <pitti> infinity, elmo: since you two have the strongest opinions about doing the ssp stuff one way or the other, can we meet again today to come to a final conclusion? I updated the specs to describe the pros and cons of both options
[11:05] <spacey> i'm giving a talk about ubuntu tonight, any idea where i can get some stats about downloads/shipped cd's? or just a guess of the install base?
[11:06] <jmg> spacey: distrowatch
[11:06] <jmg> spacey: and shipit maybe but i dunno how to get to stats
[11:07] <spacey> jmg: distrowatch just indicates its most popular but doesn't give any cool numbers 
[11:07] <spacey> ah it was mentioned before, somewhere:P
[11:10] <sivang> jmg: there's a #uds-review channel
[11:14] <iwj> jmg: Hello.
[11:15] <sivang> iwj: have you had a chance to finish reviewing HomeUserBackup?
[11:16] <iwj> sivang: Urr.  Was it me that was reviewing it ?
[11:16] <iwj> I can review it if you like ...
[11:17] <jmg> iwj: i saw you reviewing one of my specs
[11:17] <jmg> xen-edgy
[11:17] <sivang> iwj: Yes, you asked me about setting to review so I assumed you were reviewing it, but in that case we can leave it for the technical board to sort.
[11:18] <iwj> Reviewing it now.
[11:18] <sivang> iwj: thank you :)
[11:18] <iwj> jmg: Err, no, I was hatcheting it.
[11:18] <iwj> Someone else will have to review it :-).
[11:19] <jmg> my mdzspeak not good enough?
[11:19] <jmg> :p
[11:19] <iwj> uh?
[11:19] <iwj> xen-edgy used to be xen-enabled-kernel but the latter was too hard.
[11:19] <iwj> :-/
[11:22] <jmg> heh
[11:22] <jmg> why not hire me to do it?
[11:22] <jmg> "too hard"
[11:22] <mjg59> "too hard" in terms of "breaks out of tree binary shite"
[11:22] <jmg> that means "nobody wants to do it"
[11:22] <mjg59> And a few other things
[11:23] <mjg59> It's not practical to ship a xen-enabled kernel as default
[11:23] <mjg59> (sadly)
[11:23] <jmg> whoever thought it was needs a clue
[11:24] <jmg> thats not what i was advocating
[11:24] <iwj> Unfortunately there's an ongoing war in lkml between xen and vmware and the kernel bods don't seem to wait to choose and just say `come back to us when you both agree'.
[11:24] <jmg> oh well
[11:24] <iwj> jmg: We're going to have a xen guest kernel but it'll be in universe.
[11:25] <jmg> iwj: why cant the tools and kernel be in main? too complex?
[11:25] <iwj> what i was advocating> Well, err, we go by what's in the spec (which is something everyone can edit).
[11:25] <iwj> Impractical to do security support for the kernel.
[11:26] <jmg> okay
[11:27] <jmg> im prepared to work with security to trickle fixes into the package
[11:28] <pitti> jmg: for this to be halfway efficient, you need the xen kernel in git
[11:28] <jmg> oh yay locked out by infrastructure politics
[11:28] <pitti> jmg: of course the good old 'generate patch from the current xen kernel's RCS and apply them to the package' still works, but is painful
[11:29] <pitti> jmg: ^ this is how hoary and breezy kernels were done, btw
[11:29] <infinity> pitti: Yeah, I can make time to argue about it some more, but in the end, I'll cope with whatever we decide.  I can't keep arguing it forever. :)
[11:29] <jmg> whats stopping the xen kernel entering git?
[11:29] <pitti> infinity: in fact I'm with you, and I think I almost convinced mdz, but I do not want to punch elmo in the face without even having asked him
[11:30] <mdz> pitti: "may I punch you in the face?"
[11:30] <infinity> pitti: I don't recommend punching him in the face even after asking him. :)
[11:30] <fabbione> first punch.. then ask :)
[11:30] <pitti> mdz: ok, my sentence construction sucks today :/
[11:31] <jmg> what a pity it cant get into main, i was hoping to become a main uploader :-)
[11:31] <sivang> fabbione: heh
[11:31] <iwj> jmg: Do you approve of the things I wrote in XenEdgy ?
[11:33] <jmg> iwj: I dont really agree with the direction the upstream team has taken rolling almost everything into xen-utils, but if ya cant beat em, join em...
[11:33] <jmg> iwj: otherwise yes
[11:34] <iwj> What do you think shouldn't be in xen-utils ?
[11:34] <jmg> iwj: wait can i use a universe package on a livecd?
[11:34] <jmg> iwj: libraries
[11:34] <iwj> Urr.  You mean the xen hypervisor comms libraries ?
[11:35] <Mithrandir> jmg: just enable universe and install it?
[11:35] <jmg> iwj: and also they dont generate a kernel-patch-xen anymore
[11:35] <iwj> livecd> If you have enough RAM.
[11:35] <jmg> what about for the xenubuntu dvd?
[11:35] <jmg> i suppose i can do anything i like there :-)
[11:35] <iwj> The hypervisor comms libraries are really only used b the stuff in xen-utils; I think it's OK for them to be in the same package.
[11:35] <iwj> jmg: Sure :-).
[11:36] <jmg> iwj: yeah the shared libaries and bindings. that's what they said upstream
[11:36] <jmg> iwj: unless i develop a web frontend for xen for ubuntu-server
[11:36] <iwj> No, you don't want to call the xen libraries directly, surely.  Just the python modules.
[11:36] <jmg> which i have been known to do in the past
[11:36] <iwj> Or better still fork/exec xm whatever.
[11:37] <jmg> you need to use the c libraries for xenstat
[11:37] <iwj> Hmmm.
[11:37] <jmg> luckily nobody uses xenstat
[11:37] <jmg> yet
[11:38] <iwj> How stable is the abi ?
[11:38] <jmg> I just hink its bogus and goes against policy to not seperate
[11:38] <jmg> it isnt
[11:38] <jmg> Xen is mostly written by Ian's students
[11:38] <jmg> They seem to have a tendency to make annoying changes
[11:39] <jmg> Also the minimum version that should be in Edgy is 3.0.2 and kernel 2.6.16
[11:39] <iwj> So you want a separate lib package so you can have several things using different c lib abi's ?
[11:39] <jmg> iwj: No, i dont, but someone else might
[11:39] <jmg> iwj: I have sufficient powers to split the packages myself if required, but other users may not
[11:40] <jmg> iwj: On the other hand, since its such a moving target at the moment it is unwise to write anything that doesnt simply hook xm at this stage
[11:41] <jmg> iwj: Anyone that goes and writes something hooking xenstat does so at their own peril.
[11:41] <jmg> Abandon all hope ye who enter here, etc.
[11:43] <Mithrandir> neuralis: revive-tasksel -> drafting, some minor details you might want to look clear up.  Apart from that, I'm happy.
[11:48] <iwj> jmg: JOOI, who are you ?  :-)   And how much of XenEdgy do you want to do ... ?
[11:48] <jmg> iwj: im the drafter. give me a job and ill do all of it :-)
[11:49] <ajmitch> hah
[11:49] <iwj> jmg: I see.  That kind of thing's not my department, really ...
[11:49] <jmg> i know
[11:51] <jmg> *spams hr@canonical.com*
[12:23] <zul> hey
[12:23] <zul> iwj: ping
[12:29] <Kinnison> infinity: ping
[12:30] <infinity> Kinnison: Sproing.
[12:31] <Kinnison> infinity: Upload Policy NG -- you're the approver -- feel up to the task?
[12:31] <iwj> zul: Hi.
[12:32] <zul> iwj: heylo...i was wondering if you are going to need help for the xen kernel stuff
[12:32] <infinity> Kinnison: Has it been through review land successfully?
[12:32] <iwj> zul: Are you Chuck Short ?
[12:32] <Kinnison> infinity: yes, including sabdfl
[12:32] <zul> iwj: indeed
[12:32] <iwj> What kind of help are you offering ?  Certainly help is usually gratefully received :-).
[12:32] <infinity> Kinnison: Alright, I'll go read it again and make sure it's something I'm confortable signing off on.
[12:33] <zul> iwj: packaging the xen kernel stuff
[12:33] <infinity> comfortable, too.
[12:33] <zul> maintianing it as well
[12:33] <iwj> zul: That would be very nice, yes, please.
[12:33] <iwj> Have you read the new XenEdgy page I wrote ?
[12:33] <zul> yeah i just saw it
[12:33] <iwj> Excellent.
[12:34] <pitti> infinity: I'm quite content with my dh_strip-with-super-cow-powers now; do you think we should merge this and pkgstriptranslations to pkgbinarymangler right away, or should we keep separate packages for the sake of modularity?
[12:34] <zul> ill get a start on it tonight
[12:34] <pitti> infinity: (I'd favor two packages)
[12:34] <iwj> zul: Shiny and most excellent.
[12:34] <iwj> I'm not sure what the state of our xen-3.0 package is (if any) but I'll pick that up on Monday probably and take a look at it.
[12:34] <_ion> I wish bug #43117 is reconsidered for Edgy.
[12:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 43117 in linux-source-2.6.15 "grsec support in linux-image-server" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/43117
[12:35] <tseng> _ion: no way
[12:35] <zul> cool..i have to head off to work but ill talk to you more later
[12:35] <_ion> tseng: Why?
[12:35] <infinity> pitti: Does it need a no-act flag, so whacky stuff that builds nested packages doesn't break?
[12:35] <fabbione> _ion: it's crack and it breaks stuff
[12:35] <tseng> _ion: there are plenty of reasons that is a bad idea
[12:35] <zul> iwj: ttyl
[12:36] <tseng> _ion: I would start at supportability
[12:36] <pitti> infinity: yes, I'm going to make it respect $NO_PKG_MANGLE
[12:36] <iwj> zul: ttfn
[12:36] <pitti> infinity: it doesn't change anything but the .changes file in the source package
[12:36] <infinity> pitti: That would be the only advantage I could see to having it in one package (so that NO_PKG_MANGLE makes sense as a package-specific flag)
[12:36] <tseng> _ion: also that breaking up any one bit and sending upstream has gotten resounding rejection
[12:36] <infinity> pitti: Other than that, I'm indifferent about having it integrated or seperate.
[12:36] <pitti> infinity: oh, wait, I lied; it changes the .gnu.debuglink in ELFs
[12:43] <infinity> "Nosferatubuntu"... *giggle*
[12:43] <_ion> :-D
[12:44] <infinity> (One of Kinnison's use cases)
[12:44] <infinity> "Steve, a goth, is leading the Nosferatubuntu project. He requires all uploads to include the word "DEATH" in the changelog in order to pander to his particular neuroses"...
[12:48] <TheMuso> its at times like this that I love having my IRC sesion on a box at home. :)
[12:48] <fabbione> infinity: ahha
[12:49] <Mithrandir> doko: edgy-toolchain-roadmap -> drafting,  FYI
[12:49] <pitti> infinity: sorry, network went down here
[12:49] <Keybuk> TheMuso: except you still can't access IRC even then
[12:50] <neuralis> infinity: re: moving all of revive-tasksel into ubuntu-server-tasks, do we really care, or should i leave it in r-t and update u-s-t to point to it?
[12:50] <TheMuso> Yeah, but you don't miss out on the action. :p
[12:51] <infinity> Kinnison: Ahh, that looks much better.  It seems fairly crack-free now.
[12:52] <infinity> Kinnison: I approved it; can you fill in the estimated time box?
[12:52] <Kinnison> infinity: I will do so after we've had our scheduling meeting later, thankee
[12:52] <Keybuk> would anyone care if I made /bin/sh point to dash? :)
[12:52] <pitti> Keybuk: I use that for ages
[12:52] <Kinnison> Many would care, but they probably don't have a good reason
[12:53] <neuralis> Mithrandir: kamion beat me to fixing up those details
[12:53] <Mithrandir> neuralis: yeah, I'm looking at it now.
[12:53] <fabbione> so who is doing reviews?
[12:54] <Mithrandir> I am
[12:55] <infinity> Keybuk: When I want bash, I explicitely ask for it anyway.  So, I'd be fine with it as long as we don't find a mess of buggy scripts that break as a result.
[12:56] <Keybuk> /etc/init.d/rc 2  0.67s user 0.51s system 71% cpu 1.664 total
[12:56] <Keybuk> ^ dash
[12:56] <Keybuk> /etc/init.d/rc 2  1.22s user 0.89s system 71% cpu 2.946 total
[12:56] <Keybuk> ^ bash
[12:56] <fabbione> Mithrandir: i did put ubuntu-edgy-cluster and sparc64-port as review about 2/3 days ago.. i was wondering if they even appear in the list
[12:56] <Keybuk> (both third runs)
[12:57] <fabbione> Mithrandir: clearly i got no feedback (not that there is that much to feedback.. but still)
[12:57] <Mithrandir> fabbione: they don't
[12:58] <Mithrandir> fabbione: they're not proposed for uds-paris
[12:58] <fabbione> Mithrandir: right, that was on mdz input since i was not going to be there.. i guess we will review them after paris than
[12:58] <pitti> infinity: I regularly fix bashisms when I deal with packages since they'll break on my system, but they are not that common anymore nowadays
[12:59] <Mithrandir> fabbione: at least I use https://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-paris/+specs as my work queue, but I can certainly look at ubuntu-edgy-cluster and sparc64-port after lunch (which is in about 1 minute)
[12:59] <fabbione> Mithrandir: in about one minute it will be weekend and i will be heading to the other side of denmark :)
[12:59] <fabbione> Mithrandir: so we might as well wait after paris
[12:59] <Mithrandir> fabbione: sure.
[01:00] <fabbione> thanks anyway dude
[01:00] <neuralis> pitti: have a second, or are you heading to lunch?
[01:01] <pitti> neuralis: the latter
[02:11] <TheMuso> Riddell: You around? it seems that Henrik will be unavailable today, so we want to have the session as on the schedule? If it suits you, I can come to whereever you will be/are going to be.
[02:27] <Riddell> TheMuso: hi
[02:27] <Riddell> TheMuso: I'm in a bof just now, I'll come to you when done in half an hour if that's ok
[02:27] <TheMuso> np
[02:36] <Hobbsee> hi all
[02:37] <zul> hey hobbsee
[02:37] <Hobbsee> hi zul 
[02:45] <highvoltage> anyone staying at Radisson SAS getting a taxi real early tomorrow morning (like, 4-5am)? can you please /msg me?
[02:49] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: nice, thanks
[02:54] <jsgotangco> heh what time is your flight? 7am?
[02:55] <Riddell> TheMuso: I've remembered I have a meeting in 5 minutes, so we'll need to do accessibility in an hour at 16:00 (or whenever my meeting finishes)
[02:55] <TheMuso> Sure thing.
[02:55] <Hobbsee> Riddell: you've not mastered the art of being in two places at once?  :P
[02:55] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: yes
[02:55] <jsgotangco> ugh
[02:56] <Riddell> two tables is manageable but upstairs and downstairs at the same time is a bit of a stretch
[02:57] <Hobbsee> hehe
[02:57] <Hobbsee> Riddell: run very quickly :P  Are you feeling any better today?
[02:57] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: Riddell is such a slacker, you know.
[03:06] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: :P
[03:07] <Hobbsee> if Riddell's a slacker, i'd hate to see what you'd say about me.
[03:07] <Mithrandir> you're not an employee, so I have to be nice to you.
[03:07] <Mithrandir> ;-)
[03:07] <Hobbsee> haha right.
[04:15] <gurumeditationer> I know the way to run 32bit stuff on 64bit ubuntu is to make a 32bit chroot but is there a reason ubuntu doesn't do it like fedora core?
[04:15] <Lathiat> gurumeditationer: because theres currently no support in our packaging infrastructure to do it as such
[04:15] <Lathiat> aiui
[04:16] <Mithrandir> gurumeditationer: because FC is doing it the wrong way.
[04:16] <gurumeditationer> Mithrandir, what's bad about the FC way?
[04:17] <Mithrandir> it doesn't scale.
[04:17] <pitti> gurumeditationer: I installed ia32-libs and could run 32 bit binaries just fine without a chroot
[04:18] <gurumeditationer> Will it ever get to a point where you can choose to have a 32bit firefox for the 32bit plugins?
[04:18] <gurumeditationer> I mean as simply as you can with FC, it's the only thing I miss about it
[04:19] <Mithrandir> yes
[04:19] <siretart> gurumeditationer: what you are asking for is something called 'multiarch'. it is in the works, but not there yet.
[04:21] <gurumeditationer> What are the odds of it being in edgy?
[04:21] <Mithrandir> 0
[04:22] <gurumeditationer> Does it entail a serious amount of change to the current way ubuntu is put together?
[04:23] <Mithrandir> gurumeditationer: you might want to read the two pdfs on http://multiarch.alioth.debian.org/
[04:23] <gurumeditationer> Thanks Mithrandir 
[04:24] <gurumeditationer> It'd make my life easier to use an ARM development kit, it's something I'd be willing to donate a lot of time to
[04:25] <Mithrandir> it's a fair bit of work to implement, yes.
[04:40] <zul> hey mdz 
[04:40] <mdz> bonjour
[04:41] <Hobbsee> hi mdz 
[04:41] <zul> did anyone get a french taunting yet
[04:48] <Kinnison> infinity: on
[04:48] <Kinnison> infinity: no even
[04:49] <simira> did you guys lock up Mithrandir in the cellar again?
[04:55] <TheMuso> mako: ping
[04:55] <Hobbsee> simira: guilty as charged.
[04:56] <simira> Hobbsee: as I now know that you are a girl, I'll have to ask you to put your hands off from my man!
[04:57] <simira> Hobbsee: then I would like you not to treat him as a cow...
[04:57] <Hobbsee> hmmm..okay then.
[04:58] <Hobbsee> simira: FYI, and i'm not sure if you're joking or not, i've got no interest at all in your man.
[04:58] <simira> Hobbsee: I am not at all worried, really.
[04:58] <Hobbsee> that's what i thought :P
[04:58] <Hobbsee> good
[04:58] <Hobbsee> !
[04:59] <simira> Hobbsee: you wouldnn't like to be this near me, then ;)
[04:59] <Hobbsee> simira: hmm?
[05:00] <simira> Hobbsee: never mind
[05:00] <simira> I'm off, dialup is tiresome...
[05:03] <TheMuso> Ok folks. If you need to talk to me about anything to do with my submitted specs or accessibility in general? Now is the time. I will be at at the table that has been known as Kenrik's table for the net 15-20 minutes if you want to catch me before I get ready to leave.
[05:17] <TheMuso> Ok folks. I'm outa here. Nice to meet you all.
[05:36] <highvoltage> anyone in the mood for signing keys?
[05:36] <zul> i thought that said singing keys
[05:36] <highvoltage> we're signing keys at atlas 2
[05:38] <Hobbsee> highvoltage: sure, sign mine?  :P
[05:38] <highvoltage> Hobbsee: aren't you in Sydney atm? :)
[05:38] <Hobbsee> highvoltage: yeah, so?  :P
[05:40] <RadiantFire> lol
[05:45] <raphink> Hobbsee: keysigning must be done in person
[05:45] <giftnudel> it must not, but it makes more sense
[05:46] <Hobbsee> raphink: hush please.  i've heard that before.  that's why i put the  ":P" at the end of my statements.
[05:46] <raphink> yeah I know ;)
[05:46] <raphink> hi mdz
[05:49] <wasabi_> Hmm. Something messed up my locales.
[06:05] <mdz> raphink: bonjour
[06:05] <raphink> :)
[06:05] <raphink> a va ?
[06:21] <mdke> anyone in physical vicinity of henrik?
[06:25] <jdub> not atm
[06:27] <mdke> jdub: give him a message for me? apparently one of the locoservers (ganges) has gone down with no remote access, and needs a physical reboot. is there is anything he can do from there?<endmessage>
[06:32] <jdub> mdke: we can't at the moment
[06:32] <jdub> mdke: perhaps mail the admins instead of henrik
[06:35] <mdke> jdub: the locoservers aren't in the DC - they are with a provider and only Henrik has access to their control panel, as far as I know.
[06:35] <mdke> if you tell me the admins have access, great, I'll bug them. 
[06:59] <jpatrick> mdke: yes, there's a typo in the network configuration
[07:53] <mdke> jpatrick: /query
[08:50] <duck-> I have a question concerning who to contact with regards the last sentence of this section: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommonCustomizations?highlight=%28customiz%29#head-4768d95fc6651390bd90f8ef2dca0a96d856c45e
[08:51] <duck-> It instructs a representative to contact the development team to discuss a solution.
[08:52] <duck-> I have need of a customization solution in the technical college I am employed at.
[08:52] <zul> you might want to talk to canonical directl then
[08:53] <duck-> ok, thanks
[08:54] <wasabi_> Jun 23 13:53:55 localhost gdm[4665] : PAM [dlerror: /lib/libresolv.so.2: symbol __res_iclose, version GLIBC_PRIVATE not defined in file libc.so.6 with link time reference] 
[08:54] <wasabi_> uh oh. ;)
[09:50] <nexu> anyone have a idea why pbuilder tells me :
[09:50] <nexu>  -> Considering  libboost-filesystem-dev
[09:50] <nexu>    -> Trying libboost-filesystem-dev
[09:50] <nexu>        -> Cannot install libboost-filesystem-dev; apt errors follow:
[09:51] <tseng> please use a pastebin if you must
[09:52] <tseng> support requests go to #ubuntu
[09:53] <nexu> i'm trying to make a dist deb
[09:54] <nexu> not sure or folks there talking about how to login and install firefox can help me
[09:54] <tseng> the topic says "Ubuntu Development (not support, even with edgy)"
[09:54] <nexu> than whats the point of this channel if i may ask ?
[09:54] <tseng> sorry but if we help one person, have to help them all
[09:55] <tseng> the point of the channel is to discuss fixing bugs in the distro, building new features and such
[09:55] <nexu> hmm k , i assumed this channel was to help ppl getting into helping to dev on ubuntu 
[09:55] <nexu> rather than just helping 'users'
[09:55] <tseng> that is #ubuntu-motu
[09:55] <tseng> for getting involved
[09:55] <nexu> k i'll try there
[09:55] <tseng> the topic says all this, btw
[09:56] <nexu> thx
[10:47] <zyga> hi