/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/06/26/#edubuntu.txt

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buggzerohello?12:59
HedgeMagehi buggzero 01:00
HedgeMagewhat's up?01:00
mhzhi buggzero 01:00
mhzhi HedgeMage 01:00
mhzhi TT :D01:00
buggzerowell Ive just looked into edubuntu01:00
HedgeMagehi mhz :)01:00
buggzeroand I have some question about it01:00
mhzshoot01:00
buggzerowould it be suitable for my 8 yr old brother?01:01
mhzsure01:01
mhzand even for you01:01
buggzerowell he doesnt have internet access01:02
buggzeroand I set him up with a machine based on old hardware 01:02
buggzerobut I wanted to get him to use his own computer more01:02
mhzhow old?01:03
buggzeroedu seemed like a good package, but I don't know how it will do on his older computer01:03
buggzerolike windows98 old01:03
mhzhmmm01:03
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Flashq009I am new to the edubuntu.  How is the edubuntu software?  I have read about it on the site, but curious about what others have to say about it, both the good and bad.01:03
mhzwell, the older the hardware, the slower any modern desktop is01:04
mhzbuggzero: so, my bet is Edubuntu with light desktops01:04
buggzeroyes, but i mean DSL and other such lite distros have done well01:04
HedgeMagebuggzero: Edubuntu itself will do fine, just gnome can be a resource hog so you might try edubuntu with xfce or something if gnome is too slow on that machine01:05
LaserJockbuggzero: Edubuntu+XFCE is good01:05
mhzFlashq009: it depends on your objectives01:05
buggzeroyeah xfce has done good01:05
mhzbuggzero: or...01:05
buggzeroto another project machine i peiced together01:05
mhzI have a PII of 400 MHz for my daughter01:05
mhzshe's turning 5 years old01:06
mhzand she uses Wmaker + Edubuntu :D01:06
buggzeroWmaker?01:06
mhzwindowmaker01:06
buggzeroit that another window manager?01:06
Flashq009Well I am looking for educational programs for my cousins ages from 5 - 20.  01:06
mhzit obviously requiered me to get a nice theme for her and create a copuple of buttond for her01:07
mhzs01:07
mhzFlashq009: then, edubuntu is right for them01:07
buggzeroflashq009: http://old.tux4kids.com/tux4kids/ has a lot of great links and is one of the suites in edubunutu01:07
mhzyup01:07
Flashq009ok will check it out  be back in a little bit01:08
Flashq009thank you01:08
mhzokis01:08
mhzFlashq009: maybe01:08
buggzeromhz: do you know if there is any sort of journaling program in edui01:08
mhzyou could see wiki:EdubuntuSoftwareList01:08
mhzbuggzero: journaling?01:09
Flashq009where is the wiki again?01:09
mhzwiki.edubuntu.org01:09
Flashq009thanks01:09
mhzyw01:09
buggzeroyes like for him to journal in, blog, but only offline?01:09
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mhzhmmm01:09
mhzbuggzero: my BEST bet would be MoinMoinDesktopEdition01:10
mhzhe'll get 2 things at one: Blogging + familiar with wiki01:10
LaserJockheh, I could have guessed that answer ;-)01:10
mhzLaserJock: hey!01:11
buggzeromhz: lol, well I have to get him to sit on the computer for more than 5 minutes at a time first01:11
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mhzwell, and if encouraged... even work on CSS so he can tweak it to his own colors01:11
LaserJockHedgeMage: what's up?01:11
mhzbuggzero: but with MMDE he only creates new pages like point|click01:12
HedgeMageLaserJock: up late last night due to the fn compromise.... TIRED01:12
LaserJockoh yeah, Ive been away because of the summit, I hade lots of messages from lilo01:13
=== HedgeMage nods
LaserJockHedgeMage: did the cracker do anything harmful?01:14
HedgeMageklined most of the network01:14
mhzhmmm01:15
LaserJockthat's not good01:15
HedgeMagereally uncreative insults in the kline messages, though... if one is going to go to the trouble, one should at least have a good line ;)01:15
HedgeMagetell me about it01:15
LaserJockwell, I got pickpocketed in Paris so I've been doing some damage control too :(01:16
HedgeMage:(01:16
buggzerothats a bummer01:17
buggzeroit didnt happen to be around a Beware of Pickpocketer sign did it?01:17
LaserJockno, it was as I was getting onto a packed subway01:17
LaserJockluckily they didn't get my passport and I was with the Ubuntu conference01:18
LaserJockso people helped me out01:18
buggzeroIts one of those things you get overcautious about, but only after the fact, but that is awsome to hear that you had people to spot you01:19
LaserJockyeah, I would have been totally sunk without the Ubuntu people01:20
buggzerowhat ubuntu summit btw?01:20
LaserJockat the beginning of each development cycle the devs (and anybody that wants to come) get together to write and approve specifications for the next release01:21
LaserJockall I have to say is that the Ubuntu community really pulls through for each other01:23
LaserJockit was my first time outside the US and was pretty traumatic01:24
buggzeroi can imagine01:37
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Flashq009Up to what age is the edubuntu software good for?  Preschool, Kindergarten, HighSchool, College?  or rather what grade level is good for?02:07
LaserJockwell, it sort of depends02:07
LaserJockthe default install is mostly for younger kids I'd say02:07
LaserJockbut you also have the entire Ubuntu software repository at your disposal so you can install anything you want afterwords02:08
Flashq009really, where is the repository?02:08
Flashq009how can I see all the software package listings?02:09
Flashq009so that I can choose which ones are appropriate for the kids and there grade leve or learning abilities.02:10
LaserJockwell, you can just use a package manager (synaptic for instance is in the Administration menu)02:10
Flashq009hold on let me chck02:10
LaserJockbasically, there are the default installed apps, but if you have an internect connection you have access to something over 15,000 packages02:11
Flashq009I have internet connection02:12
LaserJockthen you can basically install whatever you want02:13
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LaserJockyou could install Kubuntu apps, for instance02:13
Flashq009ok02:13
Flashq009I am waiting for the computer to load the live cd02:13
Flashq009how many ubuntu versions are there?02:14
Flashq009I thought there was just ubuntu and edubuntu.02:15
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crimsunthere's just one ubuntu version, which is "ubuntu". There are three different derivatives of ubuntu called "kubuntu", "edubuntu", and "xubuntu".02:16
crimsunthe only difference between the four is the set of default installed packages.02:16
crimsunthey share the same repository, the same developers, etc.02:16
Flashq009ok... I see02:17
crimsunAn analogy could be the Volkswagen Golf and Jetta use the same chassis, but there are variations.02:17
LaserJockheh, I saw more Golfs in Paris than the whole rest of my life02:18
Flashq009does the repository have it categorized by categories, for example: education software or such so that I can just look for those programs?02:18
LaserJockyeah02:18
Flashq009ok live cd finish booting... looking at SPM02:19
Flashq009I do not see education software category.02:20
LaserJockyou might need to enable the Universe repo to get the full amount of software02:20
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Amaranthdamn i missed ogra this morning02:21
LaserJockhmm, yeah. I don't think there is a specifc category for education, but I'm not sure (I'm using the devil at the moment)02:21
AmaranthShould be Edutainment02:21
Flashq009ok I enabled the universe.. looking for the Edutainment or such category for listing of all education software02:22
Flashq009I did a search for edutainment... it gave list of only 27 packages02:27
LaserJockisn't that KDE stuff02:27
Flashq009what is kde?02:28
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LaserJockKDE is another desktop envioronment, Gnome is the default one in Edubuntu. But some of the educational apps in Edubuntu are from KDE02:28
Flashq009will work on gnome?02:29
LaserJockyeah02:29
LaserJockyou might try searching for a specific thing you want02:30
LaserJockI'm not sure if the current categorization is set up well for education02:30
Flashq009wouldn't it be easier if all the education software was in its own repository or category so users just look in that area rather than the entire repository?02:31
LaserJockwell, it doesn't really work that way02:34
LaserJockbecause the educational software will depend on non-educational software02:34
LaserJockbut better categorization would certainly help02:35
Flashq009i agree better categorization would definetly help many users.  02:35
Flashq009Where or how can I voice that a better categorization for edubuntu will would a good idea?02:36
LaserJockhmm, well you just did a little bit ;-)02:37
Flashq009I did?02:37
LaserJockyou just told the Edubuntu IRC channel :-)02:37
LaserJockdo you know Edubuntu mailing lists?02:38
Flashq009no02:38
LaserJocklists.ubuntu.com has a listing of Ubuntu mailing lists02:38
LaserJockedubuntu-users would probably be a good place to ask about categorization02:39
LaserJockbut in actuallity, categorization is not an easy thing02:41
Flashq009why is it not easy?02:42
LaserJockbecause the package manager is looking at information that is collected from the individual packages02:43
LaserJockand the individual packages are created by lots of people (somewhere over 1,000 people)02:44
LaserJockso for Ubuntu to say "I think we should redo the categorization" in fact is a rather big thing02:44
LaserJocknot that it isn't a good idea, it just isn't trivial02:45
Flashq009hmm... well, maybe if it is an education program.. for example..  the individual/s thay created the program put and edu or such extension as a name convention, then searching the repositories would not be too hard.  Just an idea... I do not if that would be feasible.02:47
LaserJockwell, that would be even harder :-)02:48
Flashq009for example:   calculus.edu or edu.calculus, or edu_calculus or something like that02:49
LaserJockyeah, but then everything that depends on that would have to be adjusted and rebuilt02:49
LaserJockthey problem is that any change to the categorization would probably take convincing the people who maintain those apps to change the categorization02:51
Flashq009well, maybe a good categorization system(foundation)  for a new build and/or new linux distro would be a start.. maybe in the future02:52
LaserJockyeah, I mean the current categories are not ideal, in my opinion, and having a more flexible system would be good02:53
LaserJockbut it would take a lot of effort to do and many people don't use the categories much02:54
Flashq009thats true02:54
Flashq009any how I love this edubuntu.  Thanks to all those wonderful software developers and everyone involved in making a difference in peoples lives.03:01
LaserJockFlashq009: just remember that you can make a difference too, we have lots of work that needs to be done and encourage everyone to contribute03:02
Flashq009how can I contribute?03:03
LaserJockanyway you want03:04
LaserJockwe need people who can do documentation, who can test and file bug reports03:04
mhz_cookFlashq009: basically, the idea is you start where you feel comfortable with03:04
Flashq009ok,  I am listening03:04
LaserJockwell, what are your interests?03:04
mhz_cookFlashq009: what would you say it is needed?03:05
Flashq009I have many interests,  but I am not sure if I understand the question?03:05
LaserJockbasically, you find something that interests you and you feel is needed, then you work on it :-)03:06
LaserJockif nothing pops up right away just hang out here or on the mailing list and you'll find something03:07
mhz_cookFlashq009: basically, edubuntu is yours as it is ours03:08
mhz_cooktherefore,03:08
mhz_cookwe all take care of it and want it cool03:08
Flashq009you mean ... for example...  if I like a particular software and want to see if improved.., I can suggest ideas and/or help to test the software and give feedback... ?03:09
LaserJocksure03:09
bimberihi Flashq009 - http://edubuntu.org/Community mentions documentation, testing, packaging, artwork, or reviewing of material as areas where you can contribute.  I would add bugsquashing, support and advocacy to that list03:09
Flashq009that is awsome.. I like this community.03:10
LaserJockhehe, so do we ;-)03:10
bimberiit also mentions the Edubuntu Study Content team.  I'd not heard of that before :)03:11
mhz_cookbimberi: hehhe03:12
mhz_cookthat is an idea i proposed long ago03:12
mhz_cookbut I have not convinced any teacher yet03:12
Flashq009thanks for the link.  I am reading it right now.03:12
mhz_cookto work on this03:12
LaserJockFlashq009: except for a few people, everybody involved with Edubuntu are community volunteers03:14
crimsun(which holds true for Ubuntu and all of its derivatives)03:15
LaserJockright03:15
mhz_cookyeah, and those 'not volunteers' do a great job 03:17
mhz_cookit is just that responsibilities may vary03:17
LaserJockyes, very much so03:17
bimberimhz_cook: It's a very good idea (Study Content) - in fact something that will really help with adoption of Edubuntu.  To have materials available that teachers can just pick up and use to achieve learning goals.03:17
mhz_cookFlashq009: if a 'volunteer' does not work on something, it may or may not cause big troubles. If a voluteer "owns" a resposibility, it will affect the whole community03:21
mhz_cookbimberi: indeed.03:22
mhz_cookwe just need at least 3 teachers03:22
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LaserJockjsgotangco!03:48
jsgotangcohey!03:49
jsgotangcoback to reality?03:49
LaserJockI'm back, not sure about reality03:49
LaserJockjsgotangco: when did you leave for the airport? I thought we were going to leave a 9:0003:49
jsgotangcowell i looked at my sched, i left at 8:30 and had a delay on my flight for almost an hour03:50
jsgotangcowhen i landed in schiphol i had to run to my next plane03:50
LaserJockah, I left at 9:0003:51
LaserJockjani was in the lobby and said you already left so I figured you just needed to get there earlier or something03:51
jsgotangcoyeah03:51
HedgeMagehey there03:52
jsgotangcohey03:52
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mhzedu-jetlang?04:21
LaserJockhehe04:21
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buggzerobummer05:06
buggzeroedubuntu wont install for me05:06
LaserJockreally?05:08
buggzeroyeah it fails at LTSP ChRoot05:08
LaserJockhmm05:15
mhzbuggzero: it takes a lot to finish that step?05:19
mhzor it fails?05:19
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buggzeroyeah it hangs at 50%05:22
buggzerothen a red screen comes up says it failed05:22
mhzoh05:23
mhzwell05:23
mhzwhat is the hardware you are using?05:23
buggzeropIII05:23
buggzero750 mghrz05:23
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buggzero172 ram05:24
mhzweired it is it fails05:25
LaserJockyou're trying to make an LTSP server out of that?05:25
buggzerono?05:25
buggzerojust regular ol desktop install05:25
buggzerousing edubuntu?05:25
LaserJockthen you shouldn't be doing LTSP stuff05:29
buggzerohow do I not use it?05:33
buggzerobecause im doing a straight fresh install and i just torrented the img05:33
LaserJockwhat options do you get at bootup?05:34
jsgotangcoyou get an option to install workstation on boot05:34
buggzeroyeah but i do install to harddrive05:35
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buggzerodont worry everyone i think its going to be O K05:39
LaserJockbuggzero: right, but the workstation install doesn't do the LTSP stuff05:40
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cbx33good morning07:22
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trivehello09:24
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cbx33morning all10:11
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donpaoloHi ogra! is edubuntu different from ubuntu in rsync configuration? I'm trying to use backuppc, but it works with ubuntu  and it doesn't with edubuntu01:31
ogranope, its the idential package01:32
ogramust be some glitch in your config01:32
donpaoloogra, and with ssh?01:35
donpaoloogra, could you see if in http://backuppc.sourceforge.net/faq/ssh.html#how_do_i_setup_openssh is there something that can't work in edubuntu?01:36
ograif it works in ubuntu it must work in edubuntu as well01:37
ograthere is no difference at all01:37
donpaoloogra, ok, thank you01:37
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sbalneavI'm here, I'm there, I'm everywhere!  So beware! :)03:23
jsgotangcolol03:24
jsgotangcohey sbalneav how is UK?03:24
sbalneavThat was so saturday.  :)  It was great!  Saw both stonehenge AND the battersea power generating station!!! :)03:24
sbalneavYou a Pink Floyd fan?03:25
jsgotangcoyeah03:25
sbalneavKnow the building on the cover of Animals?03:25
jsgotangcoohhhhh03:25
sbalneavThats it. 03:25
sbalneavWe saw it WITH OUR OWN EYES!03:25
jsgotangcoso are you back home?03:25
sbalneavyeah, back in Canuckistan :)03:25
sbalneavYou made it home safely, I trust?03:26
jsgotangcoheh my flight to amsterdam was delayed when it landed to schiphol i had to run to catch my flight home03:27
jsgotangcothey were almost done boarding when i arrived03:27
jsgotangcoyou got pics online?03:27
sbalneavNot yet.  I'll try to get some posted later today.03:28
ograsbalneav, we were in a bar after the dinner where a live band played pink flody :)03:34
sbalneavWow!03:35
ograright across the road from the restaurant03:35
sbalneavPink Floyd makes everything better.03:35
ograheh03:35
jsgotangcodid they play well enough03:35
ograyep03:35
ograbetter than the tom jones stuff or prince they played later :)03:35
jsgotangcoprince haha03:36
ograimagine prince "kiss" in a very low voice :)03:38
ograand with no tune at all ... like spoken by a bored news speaker03:38
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bddebianHowdy04:20
Amaranthogra: ping?04:49
ograAmaranth, pong04:49
Amaranthogra: i think i have something to show you04:49
ograyay !04:49
Amaranthlet me make sure i've pushed the latest code04:49
Amaranthok, branch http://dev.realistanew.com/willowng/04:51
Amaranththe first tab of the willow-config program doesn't do anything but the other two do work04:51
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Amaranthneat trick, if you train a good website as bad you're likely to have all good sites blocked and all...bad sites let through :)04:54
ograAmaranth, btw, jdub suggested "Mad Martigan" as appname 04:54
ograafter a guy in the movie willlow04:54
Amaranthhmm04:55
Amaranthi dunno, that's pretty out there :P04:55
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rodarvushi there04:58
DanielCGreetings. Can anyone recommend a low-cost thin client box? The ideal box would be no bigger than a network switch and be silent.04:58
DanielCIt is meant to work with Edubuntu.04:59
ogradefine low-cost04:59
ograi usually recommend stuff from disklessworkstations.com04:59
ograAmaranth, looks very cool !05:00
DanielCThe one I have on my desk costs 175. Anything lower than can be considered "low cost" :)05:00
DanielC*click*05:00
Amaranthogra: Is that good for the mid-point thingie?05:00
ograAmaranth, totally !05:00
ograthats really sexy ... 05:01
AmaranthI foresee several poolside days in my future. :P05:01
ogra:)05:02
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JaneWhi all05:04
JaneWI have popped in for a quick visit05:04
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ograhey JaneW, you were missed in paris05:05
DanielCSpeaking of which... how was Paris?05:05
ogragreat05:05
DanielCAnything interesting happen?05:06
ogralocaldevice support is completely specced ... the next generation of edubuntu servers will work out of the box without editing of the dhcpd.conf ...05:06
JaneWogra: I missed Paris too05:06
JaneWogra: how was it?05:06
ograother stuff is in the review queue ...05:07
JaneWogra: good things in store for edubuntu?05:07
JaneWcool05:07
DanielCcool05:07
ograJaneW, bad food hotel 10km away from the rest of the world ...05:07
=== JaneW must go look at the specs
JaneWogra: :/05:07
ograso we were somehow feeling like in jail ...05:07
JaneWogra: it didn't look too promising, but it seemed to be a deliberate tactic...05:07
ograoh and a glass beer was 9 at the bar05:07
DanielCI was going to suggest that dhcpd.conf default to a network range other than 192.168.0.1/24 because that conflicts with most existing networks. But from what you say, this won't be necessary, correct?05:08
JaneWcheap, far away and no distractions, and free shuttle to from airport05:08
ograyou could go to paris but that took you 1h05:08
JaneW9euros!05:08
JaneWyikes05:08
ograyep05:08
JaneWmore than a 1L bottle of amarula05:09
ograDanielC, existing setups wont be touched ... new installs will have a not so common range05:09
DanielCogra: Great. That was going to be my suggestion. I'm using 192.168.17.x on mine because that's not common.05:09
ograit will likely even be something else than 192.168  i think ... we'll need to discuss that ...05:10
DanielCOk.05:10
ograbut that will also need two NICs on install ...05:11
ogra(which seems to be k12ltsp default as well... it confused many k12 people that switched that we default to one)05:11
DanielCWait... Edubuntu only needs one NIC?05:12
ograDanielC, if it runs standalone, yes05:12
ograas soon as you put it in a bigger network you'll better off with two05:12
DanielCOk.05:12
DanielCYes, and mine are always going to be in bigger networks.05:13
ograbut i'm running my edubuntu server here as my dhcp server, my thin clients are on the same network as my normal machjines05:13
DanielCMost schools are not going to switch to Edubuntu overnight, they'll start with a trial.05:13
ograand our target for the first two releases was only a single standalone classroom, so that was the right setup05:14
ograthe next releases are about integration :)05:14
DanielC:-)05:14
DanielCIntegration is good :)05:14
ograyeah ... 05:14
DanielCEven though the eventual goal is to use 100% free software, making the first trial run a good experience is a good strategy.05:15
=== JackHanna [n=Jack@66.213.126.179] has joined #edubuntu
JackHannahey guys05:17
ograDanielC, btw, thats the system used to develop ubuntu ltsp http://www.disklessworkstations.com/cgi-bin/web/200014.html?id=EiiIgkzb i can guarantee 100% functionality ;)05:17
DanielCogra: Thanks!  That one is also a bit cheaper than the one I have here.05:18
JackHannafunny.. I was just coming in here to ask about pxe booting terminals 05:18
DanielC:)05:18
JackHannaI have a ubuntu 6.06 install that I apt installed edubuntu on that I'm trying to get working with net booting thin/thick clients on 05:20
ogramake sure to follow the https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall if you add it on top of ubuntu05:21
JackHannadoes anyone know of a place you could go to find LTSP installs in your area? I think that would really help spread the project and get new admins on board05:21
JackHannaooh thanks05:21
ograthere was such an request from someone in the community, not sure if anyone implemented something like a website for it yet ...05:22
ograbut should be easy to do based on the tools used for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWorldWide05:22
JackHannaI haven't found info on configuring the 2 nic cards for...05:22
ograjust make the one for the thin clients use 192.168.0.1 as static ip and you are done05:24
JackHannaok, and pxe,dhcp and stuff will be taken care of on that interface?05:24
ograyep05:24
JackHannahmm.. cool, reaching for 2nd nic right now05:25
ograindeed the other interface shouldnt be in 192.168.0.*05:25
JackHannagood point.. I'll have to reconfig my linksys to use 10.x or something05:25
JackHannaI've got my linksys pluged into my dmz at work for testing(porn) and stuff05:26
JackHannatesting*cugh*bittorrent*cough*05:26
ograheh05:26
JackHannacan't wait till our 10mbit connection gets in!05:26
=== pips1_away is now known as pips1
=== pips1 catches up
pips1ogra, Amaranth I liked the "Mad Martigan" suggestion for Willow ;-)05:29
=== dan_young [n=dyoung@fw13x.mesd.k12.or.us] has joined #edubuntu
pips1big favourite of mine05:29
JackHannabut hey, the cable company is here at the library hooking me up with free cable and a free cable modem! whoot05:31
JackHannawhat do you put as the default gateway for the 2nd nic?05:35
JackHannaI'm guessing it have to be itself right?05:36
ogradoesnt matter ... you can point it to itself ...05:38
ograthe thin clients dont need any routing ...05:38
JackHannado you know where the documentation on adding edubuntu to ubuntu is? I was going over it last week05:40
ograthere is none i think05:40
ograsudo apt-get install edubuntu-desktop edubuntu-server and then follow the howto above ...05:41
pips1"LTSP Term 150": $279.95. I was told today that my local government buys "fat" clients (PCs) for only around $560 (i.e. double price of thin client). So the cost savings aren't in the hardware cost so much, but more in the maintenance savings (thin clients last loger, less hardware failures (no ventilator ot other "moving parts") and can be replaced like a defective light bulb...).05:41
JackHannathat's it I did the edubuntu-server.. they said you didn't need to do the desktop unless  you wanted the added apps and stuff05:41
ograif you only want ltsp install ltsp-server-standalone05:42
JackHannaso after installing edubuntu-server I still have to do the steps above05:42
ogranot edubuntu-*05:42
ograyes05:42
ograits only a metapackage that depends on the right packages, there are no configuration bits or something 05:43
JackHannabut the link you gave me was for installing ltsp standalone..05:43
pips1ogra, will you change the edubuntu package for edgy? currently, the (kde) edu applications are all bunched in there... :-/05:45
ogralets see, seems we got an additional 20MB for free from ubuntus seed cleanup ... 05:46
pips1right05:46
ogradepending on how much that will fill up over time until release we wont need to drop anything if we're lucky05:46
pips1btw, good news re 'local devices support' spec :-)05:47
=== Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #edubuntu
pips1did you have a chance to look at those two "student control panel" apps that were mentioned on the mailing list?05:48
ograpips1, please stop poking me about controlaulas, i have answered you about it several times niow v... we dont want apps written in basic05:50
pips1the one from LinEx and the iTALC one?05:50
pips1huh?05:50
pips1sorry, that wasn't me poking...!05:50
pips1they are written in basic!?!05:51
pips1good lord05:51
ogracontrolaulas is written in gambas, yes05:52
ograand i answer that question once a month05:52
ograand i'm sure i answered it to you as well already in this channel ...05:53
pips1well, you can still look at the thing for ideas.. you don't need to actually distribute it if there are technical reasons that speak against it.05:53
pips1ogra, nope, not to me, but I see you have been pestered enough :-P hehe05:53
ografeel free to add them to the TeachersPet page for feature suggestions05:54
pips1oki05:54
pips1I had an interesting discussion about those "student control" apps with a sys admin just on the weekend.. he thinks it's more effective to change the seating layout in the labs. he wants "angled V-shape" desks, where the side without the computer is facing to the teacher and the other side faces away from the teacher... so students have an unobstructed view to the front and the teacher sees the screens of the students...05:58
pips1the problem, of course, is that you can fit less students in such a lab05:59
pips1and you need "custom" tables05:59
ograwell, i'd like to hear from a teacher about that :)06:00
ograsysadmins dont do the day to day work :)06:00
pips1yeah06:01
pips1I think he was teaching too though06:01
pips1s/was/is06:01
pips1ogra,  did you have a look at the iTALC app at all?06:06
pips1http://italc.sourceforge.net/home.php06:06
=== pips1 ducks
ograyes i met the author in paris06:06
=== Laser_away is now known as LaserJock
pips1so....? :-)06:06
pips1is it an option or not?06:07
=== pips1 decides to stop bugging ogra and will check it out himself in a spare moment
ograwell, either invest 200h to re implement it in gtk (its qt) and make it work with our ltsp or finish SCP in less but have less features by default and a sane python based plugin system ...06:11
=== highvoltage [n=jono@mtngprs7.mtn.co.za] has joined #edubuntu
ograiTALC is fine if you have certain prerequisites we dont use ... ldap by default for the whole school would be one for example ...06:12
JackHannathe install script for ltsp is still running...06:12
=== mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage] by ChanServ
JackHannacrosses fingers06:12
highvoltagehi ogra 06:12
rodarvushighvoltage!06:13
rodarvushave you uploaded your pictures somehwere already? ;)06:13
highvoltagerodarvus: i tried to upload all my photos this morning, but i noticed i ran out of webspace :(06:14
rodarvusoh06:14
LaserJockhi highvoltage, rodarvus, and ogra 06:14
highvoltageso what i'll do is delete all the older photos i have06:14
rodarvushi LaserJock!06:14
highvoltageso i'll do that tomorrow morning. quite a bit behind today06:14
highvoltagehey LaserJock!06:14
pips1hey highvoltage 06:14
rodarvushighvoltage, you can also upload them to somewhere else, such as flickr06:14
highvoltagehave you recovered from paris?06:14
highvoltagehey pips1 06:14
LaserJockI got a really bad cold :(06:15
=== rodarvus spent 30h in airports saturday/sunday
highvoltagerodarvus: true. do i have to upload them 1 by 1 with some dodgy interface though?06:15
highvoltagegeepers.06:15
rodarvushighvoltage, hopefully not06:15
highvoltagei was home at midnight on saturday. i'm glad i left very early.06:15
rodarvusI left Paris on Saturday, 22h local time (20h UTC)06:16
ograhey LaserJock 06:16
pips1ogra, thanks for your info re iTALC06:16
rodarvusbut had to leave the hotel *much* earlier (14h)06:16
highvoltageogra: hello06:16
rodarvus:)06:16
ograpips1, i'll stay in contact with the italc author though ... might become handy at some point where we target such setups by default06:17
pips1good06:17
pips1edgy will still be targeted at class room, right?06:18
ograwell, we'll have network authentication in edgy ... 06:19
pips1whooot06:20
ograso steps are done into becoming a school distro rather then a classroom distro 06:20
ograbut the real switch might happen not before edgy+106:20
pips1yep, ic06:21
pips1a plugins architecture for s-c-p sounds like a good idea06:21
pips1and avoiding feature bloat too06:22
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ograYAYAYAYAY !!!06:32
ograwe have a working ltsp again :D06:32
ograwow, fixing the bugs debian introduced costed me three days ...06:32
mhzhi all06:33
LaserJock\o/06:34
mhzogra rulz06:35
ograwell, for now only ltsp-build-client works again ... i didnt test it in reality yet 06:36
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cbx33hi all06:38
cbx33everybody back safe?06:38
pips1hi mhz 06:39
mhzhi pips1 06:39
pips1hey cbx33 06:39
cbx33hi pips1 06:39
mhzhey cbx33 06:39
mhzhey LaserJock 06:40
mhzhehehe06:40
highvoltagehi cbx33 06:40
cbx33hey highvoltage 06:40
mhzhi highvoltage 06:40
highvoltageand mhz :)06:40
cbx33hi mhz 06:40
ogrameh, more bugs 06:40
mhzlol06:40
cbx33hi ogra 06:40
ograwhy is that debiuan 06:40
ograstuff so broiken06:40
cbx33did you hear about grasynco?06:40
highvoltagecbx33: do you think Lisa would mind running the Edubuntu art team?06:40
pips1ogra, you are *are* talking about unstable, right? ;-)06:41
mhzhighvoltage: ikks (aka Igor Tamara from Colombia) has a very interesting Map of Colombia related to Schools implementing FLOSS06:41
cbx33highvoltage, she said could you drop her an email about whats involved etc06:41
mhzCould we have something like that for Edubuntu?06:41
cbx33i think she's worried about being up to the task06:41
cbx33I reckon she'd be great06:41
pips1mhz, link?06:42
mhzyeah. w806:42
highvoltagecbx33: well, she is, as far as I know, the only candidate, so whatever contributions she can make, in terms of leadership or artwork knowledge, would be greatly appreciated.06:42
=== mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage] by highvoltage
mhzwho is Lisa?06:43
ograpips1, nope i'm talking about debians bzr branch06:44
highvoltagemhz: cbx33's wife. she painted the edubuntu 'gangsta' wallpaper06:44
highvoltagesorry, not painted. i nearly said 'painted the mona lisa'. d'oh!06:44
LaserJockhehe06:45
ogracbx33, we couldnt imaginne anyone better :)06:45
mhzoh, yeah! the wife06:45
mhzpips1: highvoltage: http://estadisticas.slec.net/slec/ejemplos/06:46
highvoltageogra: hello06:46
ograheya !06:46
LaserJockhighvoltage: heh, having fun with colors?06:46
highvoltageyay! :)06:46
mhzplease click on "Cundinamarca"  near the center, small region06:46
=== mdz [n=mdz@studiocity-motorola-bsr1-70-36-194-85.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #edubuntu
highvoltageLaserJock: well, ogra has been ignoring me, so i had to step up my hello. i was just about to use blinking text ;)06:46
ograhaha06:47
ograis there a tag for blinking text on irc ? 06:47
highvoltageno, i don't think so.06:47
=== highvoltage stops abusing IRC
pips1hehe06:48
bddebianhighvoltage: :-)06:48
pips1mhz, took me quite a while to locate that region ;-)06:49
highvoltagei can't believe how quickly last week zoomed by.06:50
mhzpips1: hehe06:50
highvoltagea week away from home sounded like a long time, but it flew quickly with the ubunteros.06:50
pips1mhz, nice info06:50
cbx33I'm sure she will do it06:52
mhzpips1: yeah, I figure something like that would help show off some stats about edubuntu06:52
cbx33I'l bbl06:52
cbx33some serious family stuff to deal with tonight06:52
cbx33take care guys06:52
highvoltageseeya cb<tab>06:52
bddebianHeh, me too06:52
pips1mhz, who collected that info? just one person? how? by calling schools?06:54
mhzpips1: well, in Colombia, Igor Tamara started an edu-community. He encourages schools to use FLOSS and provide info, He then uploads the info06:55
=== pips1 checks http://www.ubuntuusers.de/map/ and discoveres that there are too many individual 'ubuntu users' on the google map, causing a slowdown of the javascript...
ograpips1, the official page once was http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWorldWide06:57
pips1mhz, in switzerland, the government does statistics of ict in schools. I am just reading the latest one. very interesting.06:58
pips1they don't have a map though06:59
pips1ogra, cheers06:59
mhzogra: BTW, Danile Favara (aka nomed) showed us how easy would be to cook Edubuntu Lite or Edubunt Latino, etc. It was just a matter of using his dsslive implementations. For a non hacker took about 20 minutes to understand how to do it. And the whole human-process takes about 30 minutes. The computing process, about 90 minutes, depending on hardware.07:00
DanielCWhoo hoo!!  Another Ubuntu convert. My boss and I just finished installing and setting up Ubuntu on his desktop (his primary computer).07:01
mhzcool07:01
DanielC:-D07:01
DanielCTaking over the world, one PC at a time...07:02
pips1mhz, are you talking about ubuntu derivatives / customisation?07:02
=== pips1 reads about dsslive
pips1got to run, cu all07:09
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LaserJockhi HedgeMage 07:24
LaserJockthings calming down today?07:24
HedgeMageStarting to :)07:25
highvoltageHedgeMage: were some accounts really compromised? i suppose changing my passwd won't hurt...07:26
HedgeMagehighvoltage: it was <25 user accounts... however, changing certainly wouldn't hurt07:27
YagisanHedgeMage: have a time frame of when this occurred ?07:32
sbalneavhighvoltage: Hey there!07:33
sbalneavMade it home safe?07:33
LaserJockhi sbalneav 07:35
sbalneavLaserJock: Hey hey!07:37
HedgeMageYagisan: if you didn't try to ID to nickserv during the time things were crashing two nights ago, you are okay.07:37
YagisanHedgeMage: nope, but there was something odd. I appeared as op in #doomsday, and I'm not set to auto-op07:39
HedgeMagethat would happen because the servers came up before chanserv was back, so the channel didn't know about any of your settings yet.07:40
highvoltagehey sbalneav :)07:45
highvoltagesbalneav: yes, i did!07:45
=== mhz is now known as mhz_NoBattery
=== Sergi0_ [n=serge@ip227-28-166-62.adsl.versatel.nl] has joined #edubuntu
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highvoltagegeez, these drupal updates sure are icky08:34
HedgeMagehighvoltage: how so?08:35
highvoltageHedgeMage: i upgraded, and then the site would only display blank pages08:36
HedgeMageouch!08:37
HedgeMagefrom what to what?08:37
highvoltageso i spent quite some time trying to troubleshoot it, and the people on #drupal-support helped me a bit the week before paris, but we didn't get much far.08:37
highvoltageso tonight i just started over, with the backed up database, and now for some reason it just works.08:37
highvoltagefrom 4.7.0 to 4.7.208:37
HedgeMageweird08:37
highvoltageyep. perhaps i was just being stupid earlier :)08:37
HedgeMagelol08:37
highvoltagei still feel a little caution about the next upgrade, but i'm going to make sure i do it earlier when the next update is released.08:38
highvoltagei don't want to skip an update again.08:38
=== HedgeMage nods
=== duck-- [n=ubuntu@198.150.12.32] has joined #edubuntu
duck--hello again, HedgeMage 08:48
HedgeMagehi duck-- 08:49
duck--So, ogra is the one who could possibly point me in the right direction for customizing installation CDs?08:49
ogranot really08:49
ograi only use the ubuntu build server tools to build a cd, if you customize it the brocess is very different08:50
ograbut there is a wikipage about customizing aan install cd iso08:50
duck--yes, I've toyed with it once in the past with no success.08:51
=== signifer123 [n=michael@pool-70-16-29-202.balt.east.verizon.net] has joined #edubuntu
highvoltageisn't it bad karma to have a nick like duck-- ?08:51
duck--The ubuntu website instructs a contact to get in touch with the "development team" but gives no contact information, hence my dilemma.08:51
duck--highvoltage: not when large objects are thrown.08:51
highvoltage:)08:51
HedgeMageduck--: did you try emailing the dev mailing list (either ubuntu main or edubuntu) ?08:52
ograduck--, there are plenty of people making customized CDs, so i suspect it can be done somehow08:53
duck--HedgeMage: indeed I did, I received a reply stating that the message was awaiting approval by a list administrator.08:53
ograbut i never did that myself ...08:53
HedgeMageduck--: ahh if you join the mailing list you don't have to deal with that.08:53
HedgeMagenon-members get moderated, and most of that is spam so it gets lost sometimes08:53
duck--HedgeMage: hmm, I thought I did.  Let me double-check.08:53
signifer123Fro custom cd's i do believe there was a guide on it for version 5.10...i'll look for it...08:53
duck--I've seen it signifer123, but it's rather incomplete and hacky.  I'm looking for something more stable, complete, and official.08:54
signifer123Ok, have you looked at MyBuntu scripts?08:55
duck--No, actually.  Is that the script that was included on that same wiki page?08:56
signifer123I don't think they are still up though...08:56
duck--oh...08:56
ogragoogle cache might help08:56
duck--well, the addition of multiple methods and a lack of explanation of the tasks is confusing.08:56
duck--on the wiki page, that is08:57
ograwell, its a wikipage08:57
duck--yep :)08:57
ograhttps://help.ubuntu.com/community/ThinClientHowto initially had only this content: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall08:58
ograboth work, but one is edited by many many folks :)08:59
ograand somehow hides the simplicissity of the task :)08:59
ograhmm09:00
ogra-iss :)09:00
duck--I'd be more than willing to contribute my findings in a complete and coherent manner, if only I could figure it out.09:01
JackHannahey oga,  the install script in that quick start ended with errors, the client gets an ip address but fails with a tftp error of file not found09:06
JackHannalooks like 2 packages failed to download09:06
ograwhich packages ? 09:08
JackHannafontconfig2.3.2-1 and xprop09:08
JackHannafrom the archive.ubuntu.com server09:08
JackHannadoes that make sence, or do you nee more info09:08
ograwell, then you only have half a thin client installed 09:08
JackHannaany idea why they'd fail to fetch?09:09
ograsudo rm -rf /opt/ltsp/$(dpkg --print-architecture) && sudo ltsp-build-client09:09
ogranope09:09
JackHannayour saying I should run that09:10
ogranetwrok breakage ? cosmic rays, a whacky cable ...09:10
JackHannaI'll try and run it again09:10
=== duck-- realizes why his devel mail didn't go through.....sent from wrong email address! :D
duck--ogra: one last question, and possibly a strange one, how do you disable automounting?09:16
ografor plugged devices ? 09:17
duck--yes09:17
ogras/plugged/removable/09:17
=== JaneW [n=JaneW@dsl-165-197-36.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #edubuntu
signifer123i thoghut he ment fstab...09:17
signifer123thought...09:17
duck--i know how to disable it for ones that are permanent, fstab and all that09:17
ograsee the menu ...09:17
ograsystem->settings->removable devices i think09:18
duck--was wondering what programmatically can be changed to disable this, for forensics purposes09:19
duck--if you know, off-hand09:19
ogramust be a gconf key, look for it in gconf-editor09:19
duck--hmm, ok, thanks09:20
=== Amaranth [n=amaranth@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #edubuntu
duck--hmm, i think i'm going to start a project if there isn't already one for customizing installation CDs, I see a definite need09:24
JackHannasounds like a good idea.. have you taken a look at this virtual device at VMware that will pxe boot and install iso's for you may go well with your program for an easy to set up and use network installer09:25
LaserJockduck--: perhaps working with http://lichota.net/~krzysiek/projects/ubuntu-livecd-customization/ would be good09:25
JackHannahttp://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/directory/37109:27
duck--JackHanna: that's an excellent idea as well09:27
duck--LaserJock: you don't think that this is beyond the scope of the livecd-customization?09:27
JackHannaat work I love using Altiris Deployment server... I'm such a sucker for a pxe boot OS installer and imageer09:28
JackHannaimager09:28
JackHannaI can't even think about manageing computer labs without Altiris09:29
duck--JackHanna: yeah, that would be nice, at my work we're stuck with ghosting, having to boot each client off a cd to image it09:29
duck--then send out the image in a multicast from the server09:29
LaserJockduck--: it'd be great to have one tool for CD customization09:29
JackHannayuck, check out that appliance.. I've been meening to look into it09:29
duck--LaserJock: hmm, yeah indeed.09:29
JackHannaand I believe there are some other good pxe boot imageing freeware tools out there09:29
duck--JackHanna: but my issue at hand is pressing, so I'm afraid I can't spend too much time on it at the moment.09:31
JackHannaisn't that how it always works?09:31
duck--hehe09:31
JackHannaanyone work for a library or school?09:31
duck--i do09:31
JackHannawitch and where09:32
duck--Madison Area Technical College, Madison, WI, http://matcmadison.edu09:32
duck--witch?!!? where!  If she she floats she'09:32
JackHannahttp://www.westervillelibrary.org09:32
duck--s a witch09:33
LaserJockburn her!09:34
duck--:D09:36
highvoltageLaserJock: is your wife mad at us?09:36
highvoltage(did she notice her sticker was gone?)09:37
duck--icky, the live cd customizer kit is all shell scripts.09:40
JackHannareal men use cli :P09:40
duck--heh09:40
JackHannaI'll take mine with nice aqua clickable buttons and shit09:41
duck--it has a frontend, but the frontend is for the shell scripts09:41
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duck--but what do I know09:41
duck--i'll be back, i need to reboot09:42
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LaserJockhighvoltage: yes, she noticed very quickly in fact. See thought it was weird ;-)09:46
mhzhighvoltage: just in case you wanna know. It seems to me, ion2 desktop is a little bit more friendly than fluxbox and wmaker, because it does update the desktop menu when you install apps. I have not seen icons or backgrounds on it yet, but it does cleverly administer the desktop area.09:46
LaserJockyeah, menu systems suck ;-)09:47
mhzhighvoltage: and... also wanted to mention that I'll start working on edubuntu-latino (edubuntu lite idea) next week.09:48
mhzLaserJock: yup, however, gnome, kde and xfce do take care of that09:48
highvoltageLaserJock: heh.09:49
highvoltagemhz: ion2? ubuntu ships with ion3 :)09:49
mhzhehehe09:50
LaserJockI really like openbox09:51
mhzyup, many nice alternatives09:51
crimsun(I hope you mean openbox 3 and not openbox 2)09:51
LaserJockcrimsun: uh yeah09:51
LaserJockopenbox 3 has been out for years09:52
crimsunhey now, I happen to like both openbox 2 and 309:52
crimsunI was a blackbox 0.4x user back then09:53
LaserJockI haven't ever used blackbox much, back in the Gentoo days I tried out virtually all the window managers09:54
crimsunwhile I certainly won't discredit shaleh, I do prefer blackbox 0.4x over any current derivatives09:55
=== mhz loves wmaker, fluxbox, enlightenment and ion2
crimsun"use what gets the job done" became my mantra09:56
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fowlduckhello09:56
crimsunhi09:57
fowlduckbe back in a bit....again10:04
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ereI'm about to add ldap for authentication to a network that consists of two schools and one kindergarten, do you have any suggestions/advice to a beginner in Ldap?10:11
JackHannamake sure you can restore from backup!10:11
erethe number of users will be 200+ to begin with. Totally about 100 computers, most running ubuntu/edubuntu, some MS, and a few OSX10:12
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JackHannaif your intrested in a way for lower admins/teachers to make accounts for students have a look at my buddies web project to have Ruby on Rails and a web interface make users for you10:12
ereJackHanna: that is interesting, url?10:13
JackHannahttp://www.aaronbedra.com/pages/ldap10:13
JackHannahe made it so we could have patrons with accounts for video editing on the Macs... all the other tools where way to complicated for the librarians to use10:13
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ereJackHanna: how do you structure entries in the DIT? and what kind of information do you store?10:16
JackHannaI guess just name and password.. but anything could be added. 10:16
JackHannajust shoot him an email, the link should be on his www page10:17
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JackHannaI couldn't believe no one had made a tool like this before10:17
fowlducklike what?10:17
fowlduckwhat tool?10:18
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fowlduckdid I miss something?  when did Sun's JRE/JDK/etc get into the repos?10:20
LaserJockfowlduck: right before Dapper was released, I believe10:23
fowlduckwow, very very nice10:23
LaserJockSun went to a different license that is a bit more open10:24
th1afowlduck:  sabdfl was on stage at Sun One... it was a thing.10:24
fowlduckwow10:24
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LaserJockyes, we get Java and they get Sparc10:25
fowlduck?10:25
fowlduckthe architecture?10:25
LaserJockyeah10:26
LaserJockUbuntu now supports Sparc10:26
fowlducknice10:31
fowlduckLaserJock, I think you do something with docs, right?  There is a broken link here to a deb package: https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/video.html10:32
fowlduckLaserJock, it's the RealPlayer deb10:32
LaserJockhmm, let me look10:32
LaserJockfowlduck: hmm, looks like it is broken, I'll file a bug. thanks for noticing10:37
fowlduckno problem10:37
fowlduckthanks for filing it, too :)10:40
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JackHannadamn install died again with those 2 missing packages!11:09
fowlducksame 2?11:14
JackHannayep11:14
fowlduckouch11:14
fowlducksounds broken11:14
=== fowlduck = captain obvious
fowlduckbe back in a bit11:15
JackHannaI'm out.. later guys11:16
JackHannaI'll work on this later11:16
ograJackHanna, do you have the correct versiuons ?11:16
ografrom the error ? 11:16
JackHannaversiuons?11:16
ografontconfig 2.3.2-1 isnt in ubuntu11:17
JackHannaIt's running again, I ran apt-get update first11:17
ograyou named that version before11:17
JackHannaoh... then how is it expected to be installed11:17
JackHannaya that's one it asked for11:17
ogra2.3.2-1.1ubuntu12 is though11:17
JackHannathen why is it asking for that package?11:17
ogrado you have any debian sources in your servers sources list ? 11:18
ograif so, reinsatll the server, you cant fix that easily11:18
JackHannaI don't think so11:18
JackHannasigh11:18
ogralooks to me like you are using a debian veryion of your ltsp package11:18
JackHannaI ran the quick install guide..... 11:19
ograwhat does: dpkg -l ltsp-server reveal ?11:19
JackHannaI had also installed easy ubuntu if that adds any wacko repos...11:19
JackHannaare you going to be around tuesday?11:19
ogracheck with  dpkg -l ltsp-server11:19
ograi'm always around ... unless i sleep11:20
ogra:)11:20
JackHannalater11:20
ograsigh11:20
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