[12:05] <Who_> great :) - she an art critic then :P?
[12:05] <fschoep> Who_ - basically get it out on the list and I'll try to get everything in good shape on the Wiki.
[12:05] <Who_> wow, that makes things easy :)
[12:05] <fschoep> I will apply some filtering so that bad ideas don't end up taking too much time.
[12:06] <Who_> ponder is where you want 'back of napkin' stuff, right?
[12:06] <fschoep> But I'm all ears right now.
[12:06] <fschoep> Who_ that is "Propose"
[12:06] <fschoep> We're first going to look for textures, materials and colors for the theme.
[12:06] <kwwii> frank, one queston though....the general direction of Human is already pretty much fixed, or?
[12:06] <fschoep> One thing Mark requested is we use "glass".
[12:06] <kwwii> so certain things cannot simply be turned upside down
[12:06] <Who_> yea, I'd like to know that :)
[12:06] <Who_> this is Icons or GTK?
[12:07] <fschoep> kwwii indeed - but for instance the "glass" thing can be applied to Human.
[12:07] <kwwii> true
[12:07] <fschoep> Who_ this will be for the usplash (if possible), login manager screen, login splash and wallpaper.
[12:07] <Who_> okay :)
[12:07] <Who_> how muich flexibility is there to add a second colour to Human GTK?
[12:07] <fschoep> It might influence the GTK theme as well.
[12:08] <fschoep> I think there is not much space to maneuver, brown / orange is the safest bet.
[12:08] <Who_> I have just maed some Ubuntu text that uses the colours straight from the folder icon - it's not perfect but it is glassy :)
[12:08] <Who_> I am loving black/orange on my system here, but brown and orange is cool :)
[12:09] <fschoep> But you can apply a texture to pretty much any color, you could even have blue sand if you wanted to, so we can use water ripples as a texture in a brown scheme.
[12:09] <Who_> yea. I was playing with Fyre+Gimp this evening and have a cool orange/(very dark) brown wallpaper
[12:10] <fschoep> We don't necessarily have to include extra textures, but great ideas are welcome. The glass thing is pretty much in already and we're looking for other ideas we can include.
[12:10] <kwwii> fschoep: corrected version sent
[12:11] <fschoep> Oh dear.
[12:11] <fschoep> It came out with '>' quotes in front.
[12:11] <fschoep> Should I look for those '^' signs for corrections?
[12:13] <kwwii> yepp
[12:14] <fschoep> OK, great.
[12:14] <kwwii> :-)
[12:14] <fschoep> I applied the three(?) corrections, is it good to send it out now?
[12:14] <kwwii> I think so
[12:14] <fschoep> We need to get started somewhere I suppose.
[12:14] <kwwii> but I wonder how much will really come out of this phase
[12:14] <kwwii> true
[12:14] <kwwii> if we do not try, we will never know
[12:15] <fschoep> We'll just wait and see. I'll be on the ball tomorrow and onwards.
[12:15] <kwwii> cool
[12:15] <fschoep> I didn't seem to get your reply on my mail about the studio, did it get lost in the shuffle?
[12:16] <Who_> Has anyone got time to offer some advice on the glassy logo text?
[12:16] <kwwii> I resent it, just in case
[12:16] <Who_> http://mailforwho.googlepages.com/glasslogo.png
[12:16] <kwwii> Who_: artistically?
[12:16] <Who_> yea :)
[12:16] <Who_> (I meant 'the glassy logo text I just tried to make' not _the_ glassy logo text
[12:17] <kwwii> Who_: the very top of the glass effect shold be lighter than the bottom of it (the rounded line)
[12:17] <Who_> you mean the outline?
[12:17] <kwwii> so the glass effect should be lightest at the very tip
[12:17] <kwwii> top
[12:17] <kwwii> no, I mean the fill
[12:17] <fschoep> Kenneth - thanks dude!
[12:17] <Who_> ohh, okay
[12:17] <kwwii> although the outline should be like that as well
[12:18] <fschoep> I will send the Ponder kickoff within a few minutes, then I'll be sleeping (bad timing). Tomorrow morning I'm going to wade through all the submissions.
[12:18] <kwwii> to make it look really realistic
[12:18] <Who_> yes, I see. I was copying Human folder icon, which does it the same way round as I have in the logo. I
[12:18] <kwwii> fschoep: cool, see you tomorrow
[12:18] <fschoep> kwwii: sleep tight, see you tomorrow.
[12:18] <Who_> bye
[12:18] <kwwii> fschoep: I will
[12:18] <fschoep> Goodnight everyone :-)
[12:19] <kwwii> Who_: hrm , never seen that before
[12:19] <Who_> but it is like that, I'm not going mad?
[12:19] <kwwii> but as one of the people who made crystal, I do know a lot about glass effects :p
[12:19] <Who_> indeed!
[12:19] <kwwii> Who_: to be honest, I only have KDE running now
[12:21] <Who_> kwwii: I'm struggling with the outline, actually. Is it best to make it semi transparent or just an opaque gradient?
[12:22] <kwwii> I guess with such a simple form, it would be better to make the top an opaque gradient
[12:25] <kwwii> ok, time for me to hit the hay as well
[12:25] <kwwii> see you all tomorrw
[12:54] <troy_s> greetz
[01:03] <Who_> hi troy
[01:03] <Who_> any advice on this?
[01:03] <Who_> http://mailforwho.googlepages.com/glasslogo1.png
[01:04] <troy_s> heyas who
[01:05] <troy_s> colour palette aside (i believe we are heading back into the palette spectrum listed as default), i think it is very well done.
[01:05] <troy_s> works into that gloss that weidel posted on the wallpaper.
[01:06] <troy_s> very professional looking.
[01:06] <Who_> I used _exactly_ the same colours as the Human folder icon - are these likely to change?
[01:06] <troy_s> no
[01:06] <Who_> the brows don't really lend themselves to glass
[01:06] <Who_> *browns
[01:06] <troy_s> but i think the goal is to tweak the entire palette back towards the brownish/orange
[01:06] <troy_s> yes...
[01:06] <troy_s> which is why we need to be creative.
[01:06] <troy_s> its very slick though.
[01:06] <troy_s> try monochroming it to your eyes, and see if you can trigger something else.
[01:07] <troy_s> further still...
[01:07] <troy_s> be thinking about what to do with a wallpaper integrating that kind of gloss.
[01:07] <Who_> kwwii had a hand in giving me som crystal coaching :)
[01:07] <troy_s> the problem is that a wallpaper needs to be rather large
[01:07] <troy_s> its very slick
[01:07] <Who_> :P that'll be up in 10 mins
[01:07] <troy_s> large wallpaper / logon splash means that a single band might not be the most effective means of glossing... just throwing it out there... someone might be able to work around that limitation.
[01:08] <troy_s> avoid branding
[01:08] <troy_s> for the time being
[01:08] <Who_> in fact, looking at it now, it doesn't really 'integrate' :(
[01:08] <troy_s> which means it needs to feel distinctively ubuntu
[01:08] <Who_> well, what I've got isn't going to cut it. But it is cool :P
[01:08] <troy_s> in a different way (possibly texture, but mark hasn't developed a terrific artistic language for communicating just yet :) )
[01:08] <Who_> I'll put it up soon and you can see what I mean
[01:08] <troy_s> it DOES actually feel right with the icons
[01:08] <troy_s> you seen the reference page that bersace made?
[01:08] <Who_> yea :), that's the idea
[01:08] <troy_s> it is very handy
[01:09] <Who_> oh, no, can you link me?
[01:09] <troy_s> also bear in mind that i blieve frank is going to dial down the orange of the window borders etc... back into spectrum
[01:09] <troy_s> yeah hold.
[01:09] <troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Archives/
[01:09] <troy_s> He has done some terrific work collecting all the bits...
[01:09] <troy_s> it is great to hold next to your output and compare with the integration factor.
[01:11] <troy_s> i would monochrome it and ship it to frank though.  the problem with colour too early is that it is very limiting regarding inspirational impact.
[01:11] <troy_s> i think that is a possible direction for the logon splash branding, although i suspect we will go smaller (judging from the existing usplash)
[01:15] <Who_> I will mail monochrome and normal to the list :)
[01:16] <Who_> I think we can use a brown panel bg image
[01:16] <Who_> perhaps
[01:16] <Who_> brown and slightly glassy
[01:17] <Who_> I have black and slightly glassy at the moment and I love it
[01:17] <Who_> troy: any future? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/FyreTextures
[01:23] <troy_s> sorry
[01:24] <troy_s> i have been trying to gather all the vids
[01:28] <troy_s> crap
[01:28] <troy_s> 9,000,000,000 phone calls all of a sudden
[01:28] <troy_s> sorry who... let me look brother.
[01:29] <troy_s> fyre is darn nice isn't it?
[01:29] <troy_s> yah i like that particular look... have you seen the two i poked out in an hour or two?
[01:29] <troy_s> you there Who_ ?
[01:29] <Who_> yea, I'm here
[01:29] <Who_> which two?
[01:29] <Who_> yea, fyre is wicked!
[01:31] <troy_s> hold.
[01:32] <troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TroySobotka/DapperLook
[01:32] <troy_s> different caramel twist.
[01:35] <troy_s> Who_, although your fyre texture is interesting because it is triggering some sort of old cartographer's map idea...
[01:35] <troy_s> i'll do some hunting...
[01:38] <Who_> yea, troy_s, they're nice!
[01:38] <Who_> caramel is more ubuntu-friendly
[04:10] <Madpilot> hi all
[04:13] <troy_s> greetz mad
[04:14] <Madpilot> hi troy_s - nice compiling Inkscape article - might have to try that later tonight, because 0.44 looks very shiny...
[04:14] <troy_s> yep... people are really stepping up to the plate
[04:14] <troy_s> its nice to see.
[06:02] <troy_s> hey bersace
[06:02] <bersace> hey troy_s
[06:02] <bersace> :)
[06:05] <bersace> troy_s: WTF is doing viper with its themes !
[06:06] <troy_s> laf
[06:06] <troy_s> well to each their own...
[06:06] <troy_s> is he clogging up incoming?
[06:07] <troy_s> send him a polite email perhaps.
[06:11] <troy_s> hey jsgotangco
[06:11] <troy_s> how you doing?
[06:19] <jsgotangco> hi!
[06:20] <jsgotangco> not bad, just had a series of unfortunate events at home (well my car specifically)
[06:25] <troy_s> uh oh
[06:25] <troy_s> what happened jsgotangco
[06:26] <jsgotangco> my car alarm got busted so the car wont start i discovered it around 8pm at my office building
[06:26] <troy_s> hey that's great
[06:26] <jsgotangco> so i had to take a taxi home and had someone fix it up today
[06:26] <troy_s> super fun
[06:26] <jsgotangco> at least it didnt get stalled in the middle of nowhere
[07:02] <troy_s> what are you up to bersace?
[07:02] <PseudoPlacebo> Goodnight, ya'll.
[07:02] <bersace> PseudoPlacebo: 'night
[07:03] <bersace> troy_s: i'm hardly working on gnome scanning
[07:03] <bersace> creating Preview widget
[07:03] <bersace> and other backend stufs
[07:03] <bersace> i didn't touch Kubuntu
[07:03] <troy_s> cool is that for gnome scan?
[07:04] <troy_s> and it is 'i'm working hard'  hardly working means that you are barely working :)
[07:08] <bersace> troy_s: yes, gnome scan
[07:08] <bersace> sorry
[07:08] <bersace> that a "fake friend"
[07:08] <bersace> i'm doing hardcore work !
[07:08] <troy_s> laf
[07:08] <Madpilot> isn't English fun? ;)
[07:09] <bersace|code> hate it sometimes
[07:09] <troy_s> can't blame you
[07:09] <Madpilot> yeah - it's my native language, and the only one I speak fluently, and it's still a confusing mess
[07:10] <troy_s> going to try and compile the new gimp
[07:10] <troy_s> got inkscape on the move
[07:10] <troy_s> from cvs
[07:17] <AndyFitz> troy_s we use svn for inkscape ;-)
[07:19] <troy_s> yah
[07:19] <troy_s> its done
[07:19] <troy_s> gimp is cvs
[07:19] <troy_s> though.
[07:19] <troy_s> :)
[11:30] <lapo> hi
[01:12] <waky> hello
[01:12] <waky> =)
[02:44] <troy_s> greetings all.
[09:35] <lapo> hi
[09:58] <Who_> hi lapo
[09:58] <lapo> yo Who_
[11:06] <troy_s> greetings
[11:08] <troy_s> Who_?
[11:08] <troy_s> cyanescent?
[11:08] <cyanescent> heya
[11:08] <cyanescent> ;-)
[11:08] <troy_s> How you doing Niel?
[11:08] <cyanescent> just writing up that howto
[11:08] <cyanescent> tired... much to much work lately
[11:08] <troy_s> for speccing and such?
[11:08] <cyanescent> javol
[11:08] <troy_s> If it is for Launch, try adding it to that one I started off the root of the wiki
[11:09] <troy_s> HowToLaunchpad maybe?  Can't remember.
[11:09] <cyanescent> oh ok...
[11:09] <cyanescent> will do
[11:09] <troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaunchpadHowTo
[11:10] <troy_s> Who_, I added your fire texture to that main texture page.  Makes it easier to scan them all.
[11:10] <troy_s> Makes me think that perhaps we shoudl sample that Breezy wallpaper and work towards a 'mystical' feel.
[11:12] <Who_> which breezy wallpaper
[11:12] <Who_> ?
[11:12] <Who_> troy_s: yea, I saw it today, thanks
[11:12] <cyanescent> I think I have been very confused by these implementation status fields
[11:12] <Who_> that wallpaper that was made with the eft texture looks great!
[11:13] <troy_s> the breezy one with the spirals of mystic look
[11:13] <troy_s> cyanescent, you aren't the only one :)
[11:13] <cyanescent> can you enlighten me
[11:13] <Who_> hmm, I don't remember it...
[11:13] <troy_s> cyanescent, its a learning curve for everyone.
[11:13] <troy_s> cyanescent, to the best of my knowledge, unless we are solely able to implement them (such as the wiki), they are best left for approval at the summit, then we can track them 'officially'
[11:14] <troy_s> for example, it doesn't do anyone any good to have Blah pick up and start making mouse cursors -- because that would imply that the work is getting done authoritatively
[11:14] <troy_s> and without consulting and development, the resulting product will not likely be included
[11:14] <troy_s> make sense?>
[11:14] <cyanescent> there are 8 specs for the edgy final ?
[11:14] <troy_s> frank is liasing on that.
[11:14] <troy_s> as far as i know, from what i talked to mark
[11:15] <troy_s> we have exactly FOUR specs for edgy
[11:15] <troy_s> the usplash, lsplash, logon, wallpaper
[11:15] <cyanescent> yes... can see the point. But if we've got a dozen specs for all these braindumps already, then shouldn't we tell the admin about them ?
[11:15] <troy_s> now frank will probably get permission to tweak the window colours as well...
[11:15] <troy_s> well the braindumps are really for the NEXT cycle... basically everyone should get their ideas in, then when we have a new summit we have tangible stuff to consider for targetting for the next cycle... make sense?
[11:16] <troy_s> that isn't to say that we won't get a few minor specs finished, but the larger goals need to be approved.
[11:16] <troy_s> (which frank is working on)
[11:17] <cyanescent> ok, I didn't realise we needed a howto for the whole ubuntu crowd -- the url you gave me is for the root of the wiki
[11:17] <troy_s> well i just put it there for people who were interested
[11:17] <troy_s> it wasn't in particular to the artwork stuff...
[11:17] <cyanescent> k..
[11:18] <troy_s> perhaps we need to look at it and think it thru.
[11:18] <troy_s> hard to say.
[11:18] <cyanescent> whatever... should I bother with writing more specs on these braindumps in the wiki?
[11:19] <troy_s> Let the people who suggest them post them
[11:19] <troy_s> because if they can't be bothered to write up a cohesive wiki page on how to implement it with samples etc
[11:19] <troy_s> then it probably isn't worth following up on
[11:19] <troy_s> certainly add your own
[11:19] <troy_s> with good wiki entries...
[11:20] <troy_s> we have a pretty good selection that need further development too.
[11:20] <cyanescent> liked those fire things
[11:21] <cyanescent> heh
[11:21] <cyanescent> nothing like some plugin magic
[11:21] <Who_> plugins?
[11:22] <troy_s> gimp has a fyre plugin
[11:22] <troy_s> if you didn't know who
[11:22] <troy_s> it is very cool for selecting a direction
[11:22] <Who_> I didn't - I've been using fyre
[11:22] <troy_s> try it in gimp
[11:22] <troy_s> i think it is under render
[11:22] <Who_> I will :)
[11:22] <troy_s> it lets you choose what direction you want to go by clicking, instead of numbers.
[11:23] <troy_s> very cool... frank showed me
[11:23] <Who_> similar to clicking and dragging the page on fyre?
[11:23] <troy_s> i think it would be nice to try and use what fyre is doing as a sort of starting point, and evolve it into some form of more mystical feeling etc
[11:23] <troy_s> who:  better... you 'steer' the product by clicking on images that meet your liking.
[11:23] <Who_> I agree. everyone 'in the nkow' sees fyre renders and says 'oh, well, I can do that...'
[11:24] <troy_s> something about that fyre texture that might work if we use it as some sort of mystical fyreball type path...
[11:24] <Who_> yea, it also looks like the Human browser icon
[11:24] <troy_s> i agree that they look great, but we need to distinct it... which is why i was googling for african based mysticism etc.
[11:24] <troy_s> something that we could implement that is distinct, but heading in that direction
[11:25] <troy_s> further, we need to accomodate some way to get that glossy feel into the images to homogonize the look.
[11:26] <Who_> I have to say I find glossy and fire pretty much at odds
[11:26] <cyanescent> I think you should use it as simply that: a texture
[11:26] <troy_s> we have 'glossy' thus far, but we could easily add 'magical', 'mystical', 'sweeping' etc...  all useful words when you are trying to steer a group of people towards a distinct goal.
[11:26] <Who_> Did Mark say anything about nature backgrounds?
[11:26] <cyanescent> it's all great as backgrounds go... but it's very similar to the existing background
[11:26] <troy_s> Who_, yep initially that seems the case, but that's what creativity is for :)
[11:26] <troy_s> cyanescent, explain?
[11:27] <Who_> yea, cyanescent, I don't think it is very similar at all
[11:27] <troy_s> Who_, no.  but i do like the idea... osx has a good selection of animal textures etc.  perhaps there is a way to create a hybrid that is simple and yet elegant.
[11:27] <cyanescent> iwell... you could build some sort of a 3d model, with afrikan symbols, and paste the fyre texture ontop
[11:27] <Who_> (that sounded almost jeering when I read it back! sorry)
[11:27] <cyanescent> or behind... or whatever
[11:27] <troy_s> cyanescent, the existing background is sort of trying to be osx
[11:27] <troy_s> anyone good with blender?
[11:27] <Who_> troy_s: _trying_ :P
[11:27] <cyanescent> ok-ish
[11:27] <troy_s> blender might be a great way to integrate all of this sort of stuff into a good look
[11:27] <cyanescent> but my computer is crap
[11:27] <troy_s> for example
[11:27] <Who_> never used it!
[11:28] <cyanescent> better at 4dsmax
[11:28] <cyanescent> sorry3ds
[11:28] <troy_s> if we build on wiedel's complex sort of gloss -- which is sort of like the simple who_ gloss made more complicated -- we might be able to come up with some sort of interesting fresh look
[11:28] <troy_s> blender is pretty damn powerful... www.elephantsdream.org
[11:29] <cyanescent> not quite sure what the goal is for though ?
[11:29] <cyanescent> do you wnat a background ?
[11:29] <troy_s> it is to ultimately select a set of words really...
[11:29] <troy_s> for example, mark got us started by saying that he would have liked to elaborate on the glossy look of the gdm logon splash (look on the page et made as a summary)
[11:30] <troy_s> which means that our designs should somehow integrate gloss
[11:30] <troy_s> from there, we need to think of the different types of gloss -- there is simple specular (like Who's logo)
[11:30] <troy_s> complex specular (like wiedels)
[11:30] <troy_s> diffuse varied (like the vinyl chair -- meaning that some sort of varied bumps need to be established logically on a background to implment it in some way)
[11:31] <cyanescent> hmmm.... it's ok to see it this way, but ultimately icons are icons, and not textures
[11:31] <troy_s> specular varied (like hte snake skin...)
[11:31] <troy_s> icons are icons, but if you look, you will see the gloss on the home folder
[11:31] <troy_s> etc.
[11:31] <troy_s> and they all need to integrate into a cohesive whole
[11:31] <troy_s> which means that you need guiding rules to build on...
[11:32] <troy_s> i would say that Who_'s logo fits well against that icon, for example, and that is simply using the 'gloss' adjective.
[11:32] <cyanescent> yeh.. righto
[11:32] <troy_s> if we don't lay down the guideing words/ideas/motifs, then we are at that lovely point where everyone takes a dart, throws it randomly, then posts their idea.
[11:33] <troy_s> we need the more formalized structured approach to development -- guided creativity.
[11:33] <cyanescent> I will look into doing some 3d thing with the fyre stuff, and some symbology I picked up in london recently
[11:33] <troy_s> great
[11:33] <cyanescent> maybe it will look nice... maybenot
[11:33] <troy_s> if everyone can try to build on what other's have already triggered, who knows
[11:33] <cyanescent> 'k I need a kip
[11:33] <troy_s> the point is, you shouldn't worry about it looking good or not... a good artist will be able to extract the decent elements and elaborate on them.
[11:33] <troy_s> i need a nap
[11:33] <troy_s> la.f
[11:33] <cyanescent> yah
[11:34] <cyanescent> see you