[01:00] <mpt__> Gooooooooooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
[01:09] <ajmitch> morning mpt
[01:09] <ajmitch> how's dunedin today?
[01:10] <mpt> Cold and rainy, ajmitch 
[01:11] <mpt> A change from yesterday, which was cold and icy
[01:11] <mpt> Where are you now?
[01:11] <ajmitch> canberra
[01:11] <ajmitch> sunny but a bit chilly
[04:42] <mpt> Hooray, Internet is back
[04:43] <ajmitch> isp issues?
[04:49] <mpt> yeah
[04:52] <dem> guys i have a launchpad question cause i just can't figure out it out, 1 how to i setup my app so users can translate it, 2 how do i upload a package
[04:52] <dem> after going on drapes (which is my project), I just cannot find the options
[04:53] <jamesh> dem: you need to register a product (it sounds like you've registered a project)
[04:54] <dem> yeah i did
[04:54] <dem> i just can't figure out how to do anything... is it hidden somewhere?
[04:54] <jamesh> dem: what is the URL of your project?
[04:55] <dem> https://launchpad.net/products/drapes
[04:55] <dem> i figured out to register my bzr branch tho
[04:55] <jamesh> okay, so you did register a product (I was wrong above)
[04:55] <dem> wait i'm confused
[04:56] <jamesh> there is a "translations" link to the left of your product page
[04:56] <dem> yeah, it says that my app isn't setup to do translations...
[04:56] <jamesh> that page points to the Rosetta FAQ
[04:58] <mpt> oh, wow, that's bad
[04:58] <jamesh> if you email the launchpad-users list (https://lists.canonical.com/mailman/listinfo/launchpad-users) one of the rosetta guys should be able to import your PO template
[04:58] <mpt> The next step is buried halfway down the page!
[04:58] <mpt> No wonder dem is confused :-/
[04:59] <mpt> hmmm, I can fix that this afternoon
[04:59] <jamesh> (not to mention that it points you at the wrong wiki to begin with )
[04:59] <mpt> jamesh, so review my branch that fixes it :-)
[04:59] <dem> i was about to cry, i mean i can figure out how to write my app but i can't figure out how to use lauchpad :(
[04:59] <jamesh> mpt: it is on kiko's queue :)
[05:00] <dem> do i have to register to email the list
[05:00] <mpt> excuses excuses ;-)
[05:00] <jamesh> dem: do you have a PO template for your app?
[05:01] <dem> i belive that it's in my bzr branch
[05:03] <jamesh> dem: the rosetta admins will need that file to allow translation of the application.  If you've set up everything, it should get built as po/drapes.pot in your source directory
[05:04] <jamesh> check to make sure it includes the strings you'd expect it to
[05:04] <dem> the drapes.po should be a "unfilled" out template?
[05:05] <jamesh> yes
[05:05] <jamesh> the msgid's should be strings from your app, and the msgstr's should be empty
[05:05] <jamesh> (the idea is that a translator takes a copy of the PO template and fills in the msgstrs to create a PO file)
[05:08] <dem> will it pick it up from my bzr branch automaticaly?
[05:09] <jamesh> no
[05:10] <jamesh> (not yet, at least)
[05:27] <mpt> dem, how are you doing?
[05:27] <mpt> Have you mailed the rosetta list?
[05:28] <dem> in the process
[05:28] <mpt> great
[05:29] <mpt> I'm making a list right now of the things we can do to make this easier for people
[05:29] <mpt> 1. The "Translations" link should be in a more obvious place
[05:29] <dem> it just seams really hard to figure how to set stuff up in lauchpad
[05:30] <mpt> 2. If you're the administrator of a product, Rosetta should tell you directly how to set up translation
[05:30] <mpt> instead of sending you off to some FAQ
[05:30] <mpt> (and even if you're not the administrator, Rosetta should tell you directly how you can get the administrator involved)
[05:30] <dem> how do you add packages to rosetta too?
[05:31] <dem> i cliked on packages but...
[05:31] <mpt> 3. It should be possible to submit the POT without mailing the Rosetta list
[05:31] <mpt> 4. It should be possible to suck in the POT automatically from a branch you've registered
[05:32] <dem> that would be awesome
[05:32] <mpt> dem, I don't know the answer to that question, sorry
[05:32] <mpt> I do know it takes a fair amount of work at the start of each release cycle to add all the packages for that release
[05:33] <dem> well is there no way i can post the latest of my package, i already had a deb (for dapper) built for it
[05:34] <mpt> oh, that "Packages" link is for if your product is packaged in a distribution Launchpad knows about
[05:34] <mpt> e.g. if it's already shipped in Ubuntu, you can say "this Xyz product is where Ubuntu's xyz package comes from"
[05:34] <dem> so i can't add my own package?
[05:35] <mpt> no
[05:36] <mpt> I suppose that's a bit misleading too
[05:38] <dem> ok email sent, now waiting for my email to be aproved by the list moderator
[05:42] <mpt> cool
[05:43] <mpt> Sorry about the problems dem, we'll do what we can to make it easier
[05:43] <dem> that's quite alright, i was just becoming depressed that i can't figure out how to use launchpad
[08:02] <mpt__> jamesh, ping
[08:03] <jamesh> mpt: pong
[08:04] <mpt> jamesh, if I use browser.addHeader('Authorization'...) early in a test, but then want to test the same page unauthenticated, do I have to do something like browser.removeHeader()?
[08:04] <jamesh> mpt: malcc made some changes to the environment page tests are run in to help with situations like this
[08:05] <jamesh> mpt: there are three more browser instances available: anon_browser, user_browser and admin_browser
[08:05] <mpt> as in, anon_browser.open(url)?
[08:06] <jamesh> they are set up for anonymous, authenticated and administrator users respectively
[08:06] <jamesh> yeah.
[08:06] <mpt> cool, thanks
[08:06] <jamesh> so you can do some tests with user_browser, and then switch to anon_browser to show how things behave when you're not logged in
[08:07] <mpt> Well in this case, I'm testing (a) product owner, (b) someone else, (c) anonymous
[08:07] <mpt> so for (a) and (b) I'm using explicit people, but for (c) I can use anon_browser
[08:07] <jamesh> okay
[08:08] <jamesh> for reference, user_browser logs in as test@canonical.com and admin_browser logs in as foo.bar@canonical.com
[08:54] <pc_butler> hi
[08:54] <pc_butler> im in upington in south africa
[08:54] <pc_butler> any one online?
[08:55] <mpt_> pc_butler, hi
[08:56] <pc_butler> do u know if one can download programs for ubuntu for instal on pcs with no internet?
[08:56] <pc_butler> how does it work?
[08:56] <pc_butler> mpt_, ?
[08:57] <mpt_> pc_butler, I think there's a way of doing that, but I'm not sure
[08:57] <mpt_> This channel is about Launchpad, though
[08:57] <mpt_> You'd be better off asking in #ubuntu
[08:58] <pc_butler> whats launchpad about?
[08:58] <pc_butler> not working togther?
[08:58] <mpt_> Launchpad is a set of Web applications that the Ubuntu developers use
[08:59] <mpt_> along with developers of various other products
[08:59] <mpt_> So asking us about an Ubuntu problem is a bit like asking the Bugzilla developers about a Thunderbird problem :-)
[09:00] <SteveA> morning
[09:13] <carlos> morning
[09:14] <mdke> mornng
[09:14] <mdke> carlos: yesterday someone was asking when edgy will be ready to translate, what should one say to those questions?
[09:16] <carlos> mdke: I already talked with pitti about having language packs for Edgy. I will preare all to have them ready next week.
[09:16] <mdke> wow
[09:17] <mdke> carlos: but presumably it is a good idea to translate dapper strings, right? if they get merged and dapper gets updates
[09:17] <carlos> sure
[09:17] <mdke> right
[09:17] <mdke> thanks :)
[09:17] <carlos> In fact, launchpad/rosetta will ask by default for dapper translations
[09:19] <jamesh> dem: if you are still around and want to ask about getting your PO templates set up in rosetta, carlos can probably help.
[09:19] <carlos> jamesh, dem: If it's not really urgent, jordi should do that
[09:45] <SteveA> spiv: hello.  healthy again?
[09:46] <SteveA> spiv, jamesh, stub: infrastructure call?
[09:52] <stub> SteveA: Sure
[09:54] <spiv> SteveA: getting there, slowly :(
[09:54] <SteveA> spiv: can you croak through a voice call?
[09:54] <jamesh> SteveA: sure
[09:54] <SteveA> morning mister kiko
[09:55] <spiv> SteveA: Today's feature symptom is congestion :)
[09:56] <SteveA> at least it isn't latency
[09:56] <jamesh> it's probably the black plague
[10:09] <sivang> morning
[10:21] <sabdfl> morning all
[10:21] <sabdfl> SteveA: what is the landing URL for PQM again?
[10:21] <lifeless> steves on a voip call at the moment
[10:22] <lifeless> what do you mean by the landing URL ?
[10:22] <sabdfl> i think it's the url that pqm is supposed to land on
[10:22] <lifeless> sftp://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/home/warthogs/archives/rocketfuel/launchpad/devel
[10:22] <sabdfl>                   ~
[10:22] <sabdfl> flash% rocketfuel-land "[r=stevea]  Fix blueprint bugs and add spec searching"
[10:22] <sabdfl> Please identify where you want submitted merges to occur in .bzr/parent (or use bzr pull --remember)
[10:23] <spiv> Your rocketfuel-land script seems to be out of date, it's .bzr/branch/parent since bzr 0.8.
[10:23] <sabdfl> ok, interesting!
[10:24] <sabdfl> is there a repo with the latest rf scripts?
[10:25] <jamesh> the bzr pqm-submit plugin is pretty easy to use after some one-off configuration
[10:26] <sabdfl> jamesh: how do i install a plugin?
[10:28] <jamesh> sabdfl: https://launchpad.canonical.com/WorkingWithSharedRepositories <- "Sending Merge Requests to PQM"
[10:31] <sabdfl> thanks jamesh
[10:39] <sabdfl> bzr: ERROR: exceptions.ImportError: No module named urlutils
[10:39] <sabdfl> jamesh: any suggestions?
[10:41] <jamesh> sabdfl: looks like bzrlib.urlutils is a new module post bzr-0.8
[10:41] <lifeless> I think john just updated that to the latest 0.9 pre-code. if you do bzr uncommit it should fix it
[10:41] <lifeless> (uncommit & revert)
[10:41] <jamesh> sabdfl: possibly reverting to an older rev of that branch should fix things
[10:43] <sabdfl> hmm... one uncommit did not do the trick
[10:43] <sabdfl> where is urlutils?
[10:44] <jamesh> a module in the bzrlib package
[10:44] <sabdfl> should I just keep uncommitting and reverting?
[10:45] <jamesh> do a "bzr log" to see if it is obvious where John started updating the code to bzr-0.9
[10:47] <jamesh> "bzr uncommit -r 11" and "bzr revert" should do the trick
[10:48] <sabdfl> flash% bzr pqm-submit -m "[r=stevea]  Blueprint bug fixes and addition of spec search features"
[10:48] <sabdfl> sending from Mark Shuttleworth <mark.shuttleworth@canonical.com>
[10:48] <sabdfl> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: sftp://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/home/warthogs/archives/mark/launchpad/.bzr/branch/
[10:49] <sabdfl> public_repository = sftp://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/home/warthogs/archives/mark/launchpad
[10:49] <sabdfl> i have that in my branches.conf
[10:49] <sabdfl> for this branch
[10:54] <jamesh> sabdfl: pqm-submit assumes that the local repository structure matches the remote one
[10:55] <jamesh> to work out the remote branch name, it works out the local branch's path relative to its repo, and then appends that to public_repository
[10:55] <stub> staging is being upgraded to dapper as we speak if anyone cares.
[10:55] <jamesh> the error above would indicate that the local branch is standalone
[10:57] <sivang> stub: oh, nice 
[10:59] <lifeless> there is a different setting you can use, public_branch
[11:00] <jamesh> lifeless: yep.  The public_repository setting is nicer from a "set it and forget it" point of view though (provided your local/remote setup matches the plugin's assumptions)
[11:18] <Apple101> how do i remove a launchpad account?  i now have two, and only need one.
[11:19] <carlos> Apple101: merge both accounts
[11:19] <carlos> https://launchpad.net/people
[11:20] <mpt> Apple101, https://launchpad.net/people/+requestmerge
[11:21] <mpt> carlos, it's been bugging me for a couple of weeks now, I realized that "merge the accounts" link is on completely the wrong page
[11:21] <Apple101> ok thanks
[11:21] <mpt> It should be on the page for a person, as a "Hey, this is me!" button
[11:26] <jamesh> mpt: https://launchpad.canonical.com/WhyTheSmegAmIHere
[11:31] <SteveA> jamesh: when will you be able to run the zope3 spec import script on staging?
[11:32] <SteveA> mpt: voice call?
[11:34] <SteveA> mpt: it should be on a page for a person only when that person has no validated email addresses
[11:34] <SteveA> ... and no password
[11:34] <lifeless> sabdfl: have you seen https://launchpad.net/products/blueprint/+spec/private-specs
[11:38] <jamesh> SteveA: will look at doing it later tonight.
[11:39] <elmo> braaaaad
[11:39] <sabdfl> lifeless: i did respond to your mail yesterday. did you not get that?
[11:40] <SteveA> this is private specs, the other was private branches
[11:40] <lifeless> sabdfl: yup, this is a different spec, that I realised you may not have seen.
[11:43] <sabdfl> ah, yes i had NOT seen that
[11:43] <sabdfl> will take a look
[11:43] <lifeless> its very raw, kind of a drive-by-spec, but I wanted to seed the conversation.
[11:44] <lifeless> we're heading to lunch now, so that we have eaten before the lp meeting.
[11:44] <bradb> elmo: hey
[11:44] <SteveA> mpt: maybe we can talk later or earlier tomorrow morning
[11:44] <bradb> elmo: what's up?
[11:47] <elmo> bradb: I just tried to merge a bug with two existing dupes into another bug and malone's response makes me cry
[11:47] <jamesh> disallowing duplicates of duplicates
[11:48] <elmo> bradb: apart from the garbled text you get back, is there any reason not to either a) just handle duplicate chains or b) offer a debbugs style 'force-merge' option which re-targets the existing dupes at the new dupe-target?
[11:49] <elmo> having to go away and do (b) by hand (which is what I ended up doing after I decoded the message) seems suboptimal 
[11:51] <mpt_> Anyone: Are there any products in Launchpad with zero product series, or did they all (not just the new ones) get "trunk" added to them?
[11:52] <mpt_> or "main", rather
[11:55] <sivang> carlos: hi
[11:55] <sivang> carlos: if I see "Rosetta Admins" as the person contributing a translation in https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+lang/he , that means it was imported from upstream?
[11:56] <mpt_> hmmm, if acpid has a series, I guess everything does
[11:57] <carlos> sivang: yes
[11:57] <carlos> and we didn't know the author
[11:58] <carlos> sivang: If you know it, I will be happy to change the ownerhsip to the right author
[11:58] <carlos> well, to request it, I cannot change it directly
[11:59] <sivang> carlos: right, thanks
[12:00] <sivang> carlos: also, what was the way you mentioned to me over Paris to be able to view translations by a person? (workaround- I recall there is no direct support for that still)
[12:02] <carlos> hmmm
[12:02] <carlos> I don't remember exactly what I told you
[12:02] <carlos> we have http://launchpad.net/people/carlos/+translations
[12:02] <bradb> elmo: an unfortunate bug: https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+bug/2796. we're just talking about it now.
[12:02] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 2796 in malone "Remove constraint on marking duplicates of duplicates" [Medium,Confirmed]  
[12:02] <carlos> but I don't think you see there exactly what you want
[12:02] <sivang> carlos: this shows approved and proposed translations right?
[12:03] <carlos> sivang: I think I told you that if you get a timeout page there, it means that person did a lot of translations
[12:03] <sivang> carlos: I just did for https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/kdeedu/+pots/blinken/he/+translate :-) but it's okay now
[12:03] <carlos> sivang: yeah, all translations added
[12:03] <sivang> carlos: OOPS-180A426 (but I saw there is already a committed fix for that)
[12:03] <Ubugtu> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/180A426
[12:06] <carlos> sivang: yeah, kiko did many improvements to that page
[12:06] <elmo> bradb: ah ok, cool, thanks
[12:07] <sivang> carlos: hmm, actually the +translate timeout is for malone #3991 , sorry.
[12:07] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 3991 in rosetta "Timeout error on translation page (+translate)" [Medium,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3991
[12:07] <sivang> carlos: (different bugs)
[12:07] <carlos> yeah, I was talking about the +translate page
[12:08] <carlos> the people/foo/+translations is not yet fixed
[12:18] <sivang> carlos: I see, should I report that OOPS-180A426 ? I see on the bug report it is supposed to be fixed, but I just got it, and can't reproduce anymore.
[12:18] <Ubugtu> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/180A426
[12:19] <carlos> sivang: there is already a bug for that
[12:19] <carlos> hmmm
[12:19] <carlos> sivang: which bug report are you looking at?
[12:19] <carlos> I don't remember that it's fixed already....
[12:20] <mpt_> "The recommended target for current translation activity is main"
[12:20] <sivang> carlos: https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/3991 , right, it seems it's only commited, not "release" :) 
[12:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 3991 in rosetta "Timeout error on translation page (+translate)" [Medium,Fix committed]  
[12:20] <mpt_> "We recommend you translate main"
[12:21] <mpt_> hmmm
[12:21] <carlos> sivang: also, that bug is not for the OPPS you gave me
[12:21] <mpt_> "The <productname> developers recommend translating main"
[12:22] <carlos> sivang: https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/2497 <- This is the one you are looking for
[12:23] <mpt_> hmmm, no, actually the first is more correct, isn't it carlos?
[12:24] <carlos> mpt_: is 'main' a product series?
[12:24] <mpt_> because sometimes with a product there are no upstream translations, so the product Translations page recommends translating a package instead
[12:24] <mpt_> yes
[12:24] <mpt_> so it needs ?? around it
[12:24] <carlos> hmm, where do we have that string?
[12:24] <mpt_> product-translations.pt
[12:24] <mpt_> which I'm rewriting
[12:25] <mpt_> because I'm angry with it
[12:26] <mpt_> carlos, while I'm here, is it easy to fix the bug seen on https://launchpad.net/products/gnomebacker/+translations, where a legend is shown but no chart?
[12:28] <carlos> I think you should put there something like: "The <target.productseries.product.displayname> | <target.distrorelease.distro.displayname> developers recommend translating <target.displayname>"
[12:30] <carlos> mpt_: that url is broken
[12:30] <mpt_> carlos, sorry, gnomebaker, not backer
[12:30] <mpt_> https://launchpad.net/products/gnomebaker/+translations
[12:31] <carlos> hmm, I see a legend and charts..
[12:31] <mpt_> rrrrrreeally
[12:31] <mpt_> carlos, what languages do you see charts for?
[12:33] <mpt_> ah, this is a regression of bug 2718
[12:33] <carlos> I see there a bunch of languages...
[12:33] <mpt_> Not all of them?
[12:34] <mpt_> Just your preferred ones, perhaps?
[12:34] <carlos> no, I don't have more than two prefered ones
[12:34] <mpt_> How many languages do you see?
[12:34] <carlos> and believe me, Afrikaans is not one of them
[12:34] <carlos> mpt_: I think I know what's going on
[12:35] <carlos> I don't know why, but Steve already told me about that bug
[12:35] <carlos> I need to prepare some debugging pages for teh logic we use to guess the interested languages
[12:35] <carlos> perhaps that's hidding something for some users
[12:43] <mpt_> carlos, if it's just for some users, why do I get the bugs even when I'm logged out? :-)
[12:43] <carlos> because your browser's preferences and the info we get from geoip for your IP
[12:44] <mpt_> well it happens for me both in Epiphany and in Safari
[12:44] <mpt_> *and* it happens for me both in New Zealand and in the USA!
[12:44] <mpt_> Rosetta's just picking on me, that's all it is
[12:46] <mpt_> oh, and 47718 happens on production but not on staging
[12:46] <mpt_> 47781, rather
[12:59] <mpt_> carlos, is it usually best for product owners to set up "main"/"trunk" for translation, or an actual release series?
[01:13] <mpt_> SteveA, am I prohibited from putting one <metal:heading> inside one <tal:...condition...>, and another <metal:heading> inside another <tal:...condition...>?
[01:14] <mpt_> LP says "duplicate fill-slot name: u'pageheading'"
[01:25] <jamesh> mpt_: metal is a macro expansion language, and is processed before any tal directives
[01:25] <jamesh> mpt_: and it does seem to disallow expanding a slot more than once
[01:28] <carlos> mpt_: usually, they put main/trunk
[01:31] <mpt_> rats
[01:31] <mpt_> thanks jamesh 
[01:32] <salgado> jamesh, one of flacoste's branches was rejected because of twisted failures too
[01:34] <sivang> carlos: how hard would it be to have https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+source/totem/+pots/totem/he/+translate?show=translated&start=40 for example, be able to show translations from only one specific person?
[01:39] <carlos> sivang: the code changes should be easy, not sure about the performance implications
[01:40] <jamesh> salgado: looks like it is running LP tests now, so it might not be dead -- I just saw output indicating make hitting an error after processing the sourcecode/twisted dir
[01:42] <sivang> carlos: I see. 
[01:43] <salgado> jamesh, hmm. I thought you had already received the failure email. 
[01:44] <jamesh> salgado: nah.  I was looking at the pqm.launchpad.net output, and assumed that the merge had failed but not emailed me yet
[01:49] <mpt_> ugh
[01:50] <salgado> mpt_, request/lp:person
[01:50] <mpt_> yes, thanks salgado
[01:51] <mpt_> I knew it had "request" in it somewhere, and just found it by grepping
[01:52] <SteveA> hi
[01:53] <stub> Meeting 8 mins
[01:54] <SteveA> spiv: ping
[01:55] <SteveA> flacoste: I don't have your three sentences yet
[01:55] <flacoste> DONE: Fixed bug in support tracker, attend Malone and support sprint 
[01:55] <flacoste> TODO: Write specs based on sprint discussion, finish KarmaContext
[01:55] <flacoste> implementation.
[01:55] <flacoste> BLOCKED: none
[01:56] <SteveA> thanks.  I'll paste them in the appropriate part of the meeting in about 35 mins
[01:56] <SteveA> enjoy
[01:56] <SteveA> your sprintlunch
[01:56] <flacoste> tnx!
[01:59] <LarstiQ> flacoste: would you have time to go over bug 4663 later today?
[02:00] <flacoste> LarstiQ: you mean testing?
[02:00] <spiv> SteveA: pong
[02:00] <SteveA> MEETING TIME
[02:00] <LarstiQ> flacoste: yes, I should have the underlying code done, not the ui part
[02:00] <SteveA> welcome to this week's launchpad development meeting
[02:00] <malcc> me
[02:00] <SteveA> spiv: if you're feeling bad, feel free to msg me your 3 sentences, and leave early
[02:00] <lifeless> moi
[02:00] <SteveA> who's here today?
[02:00] <mpt_> me
[02:00] <matsubara> me
[02:00] <cprov> me
[02:01] <lifeless> SteveA is
[02:01] <jamesh> me
[02:01] <SteveA> (people at the sprint send apologies, and have given me their three sentences)
[02:01] <spiv> SteveA: ok, thanks, I'll do that.
[02:01] <ddaa> me
[02:01] <SteveA> spiv sends apologies, he's still recovering from being ill
[02:01] <mpt_> Which people are those?
[02:02] <SteveA> mpt_: all will be revealed...
[02:02] <jamesh> mpt_: the sprint tracker should tell you :)
[02:02] <mpt_> ... when I look at the sprint timetable
[02:02] <carlos> me
[02:02] <SteveA> stub?
[02:02] <lifeless> mpt_: https://launchpad.net/sprints/launchpad-malone-support-2006
[02:02] <SteveA> jordi: ?
[02:02] <mpt_> thunks
[02:02] <SteveA> == Agenda ==
[02:02] <SteveA>  * Roll call
[02:02] <SteveA>  * Agenda
[02:02] <SteveA>  * Next meeting
[02:02] <SteveA>  * Activity reports
[02:02] <SteveA>  * Actions from last meeting
[02:03] <SteveA>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
[02:03] <SteveA>  * Bug report report (mpt)
[02:03] <SteveA>  * Sysadmin requests
[02:03] <stub> here
[02:03] <SteveA>  * Production and staging (Stuart)
[02:03] <SteveA> ----
[02:03] <SteveA>  * Writing a good RT request (Steve)
[02:03] <SteveA>  * Voice calls with reviewers (Robert)
[02:03] <SteveA>  * (other items)
[02:03] <SteveA> ----
[02:03] <SteveA>  * Keep, Bag, Change
[02:03] <SteveA>  * Three sentences
[02:03] <SteveA> == Apologies ==
[02:03] <SteveA>  * Brad, Bjorn, Kiko, Francis, Salgado: sprinting
[02:03] <SteveA>   * Andrew: under the weather
[02:03] <SteveA> 
[02:03] <SteveA> next meeting.  I'll most likely be without network access on Thursday.
[02:03] <SteveA> We'll have the meeting, and I'll ask Kiko to run it.
[02:03] <SteveA> MeetingAction: Steve to ask Kiko to run next week's meeting.
[02:04] <lifeless> ddaa and I will be absent too
[02:04] <SteveA>   * Activity reports
[02:04] <Kinnison> I am up-to-date
[02:04] <mpt_> up to date
[02:04] <SteveA> Hello.  My name is Stephen.  I'm an activity report slacker.
[02:04] <ddaa> up to date
[02:04] <carlos> SteveA: I will be on holidays for next meeting
[02:04] <lifeless> up to date
[02:04] <matsubara> up to date
[02:04] <cprov> up to date
[02:05] <malcc> Up to date
[02:05] <jamesh> I'm not up to date
[02:06] <SteveA> stub: ?
[02:07] <stub> up to date
[02:07] <SteveA> anyone else?
[02:07] <SteveA>  * Actions from last meeting
[02:07] <SteveA>  * '''stub''' to talk about faster test suite kill kill kill in next infra. call
[02:07] <SteveA> done
[02:07] <stub> We did
[02:07] <SteveA>  * '''stub''' and '''matsubara''' to have a 30 min call to talk over what they do about production systems and see how it goes
[02:07] <stub> We did
[02:07] <SteveA> nice
[02:07] <SteveA> how did it go?
[02:07] <SteveA>  * '''malcc''', '''cprov''', and '''Kinnison''' to have a soyuz conf call when they get home
[02:08] <malcc> Done
[02:08] <cprov> we did
[02:08] <SteveA> mpt_: when you write up activity report slackers, please note how many continuous weeks the slacker has been slacking
[02:08] <stub> SteveA: I think it redundant given this stuff is also discussed in the main Launchpad meeting
[02:08] <mpt_> SteveA, ok
[02:08] <malcc> It was useful, and we're now planning daily calls until such time as we find we don't have enough to say
[02:08] <SteveA> matsubara: what is your opinion of your call with stub?
[02:08] <SteveA> malcc: for the infrastructure team, we end up talking about fictional porno film titles when that happens.
[02:09] <SteveA> just throwing an idea out there.
[02:09] <malcc> SteveA: Did you get "Buffy the Vampire Layer"?
[02:09] <matsubara> SteveA: it was good, but I don't think we *need* to do it weekly.
[02:09] <malcc> SteveA: My personal favourite
[02:09] <SteveA> malcc: we stopped at "Lord of the Rings"
[02:09] <SteveA> matsubara, stub: okay, cool.  Further calls by mutual arrangement.  Thanks.
[02:09] <SteveA> that's it for last week's meeting actions.
[02:10] <SteveA>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
[02:10] <matsubara> Today's oops report is about bugs 44919, 51198, 5812, 6459, 50472.
[02:10] <matsubara> where's ubugtu when you need it?
[02:10] <SteveA> but 44919, bug 51198, bug 6459, bug 50472
[02:10] <SteveA> matsubara: you have to say it right
[02:10] <SteveA> bug 44919, bug 51198, bug 6459, bug 50472
[02:10] <matsubara> it's not here.
[02:11] <SteveA> ah, i see
[02:11] <ivoks> hi
[02:11] <kiko-fud> I want whatever SteveA's smoking
[02:11] <matsubara> #44919 and #51198 aren't assigned. Both triggered quite frequently lately. Who should I assign them to?
[02:11] <sivang> hehe
[02:11] <lifeless> kiko-fud: its not smoking you should worry about
[02:11] <lifeless> its listening
[02:11] <carlos> matsubara: anyone related to Rosetta?
[02:11] <kiko-fud> matsubara, what bugs are those?
[02:11] <lifeless> bug 44918
[02:11] <SteveA> Seveas: we miss ubugtu! :-)
[02:11] <matsubara> 44919 is related to GFV trying to convert enconding
[02:11] <sivang> malone #44918
[02:12] <Seveas> hmm
[02:12] <carlos> Bug #51198: Non-ascii characters on referer URL causes redirection code to crash.
[02:12] <carlos> Bug #44919: UnicodeDecodeError while registering a new account.
[02:12] <matsubara> thanks carlos
[02:12] <ddaa> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/44919
[02:12] <ddaa> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/51198
[02:12] <carlos> np
[02:13] <carlos> carlos + ddaa == ubugtu !! :-P
[02:13] <matsubara> so, SteveA any suggestions who should work on those?
[02:14] <SteveA> both 51198 and 44919 are on code that salgado last worked on
[02:14] <ivoks> um, if i upload something (.po) to rosetta, it should be there in at lease 24 hours, right? all my uploads were silently droped... is this normal (known bug)?
[02:14] <SteveA> so, salgado as a first choice.  otherwise, maybe you'd like to do them matsubara?  otherwise, assign to infrastructure team.
[02:14] <matsubara> SteveA: ok, i'll coordinate with him.
[02:14] <SteveA> thanks
[02:14] <matsubara> stub, did you fix released #5812? I noticed that it's not happening anymore. Or is that people aren't triggering it anymore?
[02:15] <stub> If that is the shipit constraints, it is in salgado's review queue again
[02:15] <matsubara> stub: I see, so people aren't triggering them. :)
[02:15] <matsubara> The +lang page is a performance problem, and Mark just gave the 'go ahead' to add batching to that page. carlos, can you work on #6459?
[02:15] <ddaa> bug 5812: Lack of database constraint may cause SQLObjectMoreThanOneResultError on shipit https://launchpad.net/products/shipit/+bug/5812
[02:15] <carlos> matsubara: sure
[02:16] <matsubara> ddaa: that's a private one. ;)
[02:16] <ddaa> oops
[02:16] <SteveA> i do think private bugs should have a different coloured background
[02:16] <SteveA> or be visually distinct in some other way
[02:16] <jamesh> neon pink, maybe?
[02:16] <lifeless> muave
[02:17] <lifeless> mauve I mean.

[02:17] <SteveA> they should also play a screaming sound from your PC speakers when you view them
[02:17] <lifeless> intergalactic colour of danger.
[02:17] <ddaa> bug 6459: Timeout error on distribution release language page https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/6459
[02:17] <matsubara> and carlos how's #50472 going?
[02:17] <matsubara> carlos: if can help you with that, talk to me after the meeting.
[02:17] <carlos> matsubara: finishing tests
[02:17] <ddaa> Bug #50472: "Save & Continue" at 100% complete translation leads to nonexistent page. https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/50472
[02:18] <matsubara> carlos: oh, then you're good.
[02:18] <carlos> matsubara: thanks, but it's mostly ready, I will ask for review today
[02:18] <matsubara> carlos: great.
[02:18] <SteveA> carlos is indeed excellent
[02:18] <SteveA> hi Ubugtu 
[02:18] <SteveA> wvb
[02:18] <ddaa> bug 1
[02:18] <matsubara> SteveA: I'm done
[02:18] <matsubara> thanks guys.
[02:18] <SteveA> thanks matsubara 
[02:18] <mpt_> darnit, Ubugtu!
[02:18] <Seveas> ddaa, it will take up to a minute for it to sync with freenode
[02:18] <mpt_> I'd just finished preparing for your absence
[02:18] <SteveA> now, a new section from mpt
[02:18] <SteveA>  * Bug report report (mpt)
[02:19] <mpt_> ok.
[02:19] <mpt_> Crashes are not the only occasions where someone is completely unable to do something in Launchpad.
[02:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in Ubuntu Dapper "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
[02:19] <mpt_> Other complete failures should be represented by Critical bugs on one of the Launchpad products.
[02:19] <mpt_> And sometimes things other than complete failures will be Critical bugs too.)
[02:19] <mpt_> Critical bugs should (I think) be treated with similar urgency to oopses.
[02:20] <mpt_> So starting with this meeting, I'll list the half dozen oldest open Critical bugs, so we can badger the assignees (or reconsider whether they should be Critical).
[02:20] <mpt_> This week, they are:
[02:20] <mpt_> bug 1294
[02:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 1294 in malone "Filing a private bug requires the ability to Cc the maintainer" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1294
[02:20] <mpt_> bug 6459
[02:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 6459 in rosetta "Timeout error on distribution release language page" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6459
[02:20] <mpt_> bug 31308
[02:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31308 in launchpad-bazaar "Cannot set branch associated to a product series" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31308
[02:20] <mpt_> bug 36830
[02:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36830 in launchpad-publisher "need Contents files to be generated" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36830
[02:20] <mpt_> bug 37897
[02:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 37897 in launchpad-bazaar "renaming project, product or series breaks vcs imports" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37897
[02:21] <mpt_> and bug 40171
[02:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40171 in launchpad-publisher "Acceptance testing for Dapper release, Edgy branching" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40171
[02:21] <Seveas> (mpt_: ubugtu also understands comma/space sperated lists of up to 5 bugs)
[02:21] <SteveA> i think we have 36830 done
[02:21] <matsubara> mpt_: I'd like to suggest also bug 39814
[02:21] <SteveA> Seveas: way cool
[02:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 39814 in launchpad "Misleading login hint" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39814
[02:21] <mpt_> Seveas, and that's what I had, until I realized Ubugtu wasn't here, and painstakingly prepared summaries of each myself :-P
[02:21] <Seveas> hehe
[02:21] <carlos> AndI will work on 6459 this week
[02:22] <ddaa> 31308 cannot be fixed robustly without changing the DB schema, would probably require a spec, I'm willing to drop its priority to High.
[02:22] <Seveas> (it even recognizes and|et|en|und (and now I'll stop offtopic talk))
[02:22] <SteveA> malcc / Kinnison / cprov: what's the true status of 36830?
[02:22] <mpt_> Seveas, you don't show the assignee though
[02:22] <SteveA> Seveas: "ir" in lithuanian
[02:22] <cprov> SteveA: done, I'm marking it as fixed & committed
[02:22] <SteveA> cool
[02:22] <mpt_> carlos, I'll assign 6459 to you then
[02:22] <Kinnison> bug 40171 is also done IIRC
[02:22] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40171 in launchpad-publisher "Acceptance testing for Dapper release, Edgy branching" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40171
[02:22] <Seveas> mpt_, no, I got complaints that that would mae ubugtu spam too long lines
[02:22] <mpt_> bug 31308 is unassigned, any takers?
[02:22] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31308 in launchpad-bazaar "Cannot set branch associated to a product series" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31308
[02:23] <carlos> mpt_: I have it already assigned to me, I did 10 minutes ago ;-)
[02:23] <mpt_> great
[02:23] <ddaa> 37897 could be fixed in the short term, I can write a mail to launchpad@ explaining what I think would have to be done. I would have to spend on afternoon rolling it out though.
[02:23] <ddaa> * one afternoon
[02:23] <mpt_> 1294 is Malone, and all the Maloners are absent
[02:23] <SteveA> mpt_: how are we doing?  various other issues to discuss today
[02:23] <mpt_> That's all.
[02:24] <SteveA> thanks mpt.   I found that section valuable.
[02:24] <SteveA>  * Sysadmin requests
[02:24] <SteveA> with a countdown
[02:24] <SteveA> 5
[02:24] <SteveA> 4
[02:24] <SteveA> 3
[02:24] <SteveA> 2
[02:24] <SteveA> 1
[02:24] <SteveA> doonesbury.
[02:24] <SteveA>  * Production and staging (Stuart)
[02:24] <stub> Carbon is now available for Launchpad use. Carbon is an identical machine to Jubany, the main database server. We will use this for load testing the proposed Branch changes to ensure things remain useful when the table grows huge. After that, I want to use it for replication testing with Asuka.
[02:24] <stub> The box is powerful enough that we can run multiple instances, for example a database besides staging to generate language packs from if we still don't want to run it against production.
[02:24] <stub> Last weeks rollout failed. We probably could have fixed the problem with a (still untested) patch, but it didn't seem urgent enough to push ahead.
[02:24] <stub> Next production rollout will be Tuesday with HEAD as of now unless I hear about other patches that need landing.
[02:24] <stub> Staging is boring. Yay.
[02:25] <lifeless> ...dyson go boom...
[02:25] <SteveA> stub: i'll have some small UI changes to land
[02:25] <mpt_> Staging's not working right now
[02:25] <SteveA> jamesh has agreed to take on the dyson bug
[02:25] <carlos> stub: language packs are not yet on production because I found a big performance problem and we need to refactor it
[02:25] <stub> Oh... 
[02:25] <carlos> stub: but yes, we MUST move it into production
[02:25] <stub> I should have said 'staging has been upgraded to dapper'
[02:25] <mpt_> stub, what percentage of time is staging offline? Am I just unlucky?
[02:26] <stub> carlos: We should test it on the new hardware then too so we can see how it run for real
[02:26] <carlos> stub: well, the thing is that we lock the database too much time
[02:26] <carlos> and block Rosetta
[02:26] <stub> mpt_: Depends on how often people check it. It isn't being monitored, so if it goes down (eg. after a reboot) I don't notice until someone tells me
[02:26] <SteveA> add deliberate pauses into it?
[02:26] <carlos> I found it while doing some debugging on staging while the script was running
[02:27] <SteveA> thanks stuart.
[02:27] <SteveA>  * Writing a good RT request (Steve)
[02:27] <jamesh> is it worth getting the admins to add staging to the list of systems they monitor?
[02:27] <carlos> mpt_: I can start it if it's down, if Stuart is not around, ping me
[02:27] <mpt_> thanks carlos
[02:27] <jamesh> or would that just waste their time?
[02:27] <SteveA> the sysadmins have written a document on how to write a good RT request.
[02:27] <SteveA> I would like everyone here to read this.  I'd also like the people who are not here today to read it too.
[02:28] <SteveA> Everyone should also subscribe to the wiki page, so that they get updates to the RT request-writing policy.
[02:28] <stub> jamesh: it would be a time waste - I expect staging to go down occasionally for a day or three.
[02:28] <carlos> jamesh: there are sometimes that staging is down because we need to do some kind of manual fixes, I don't think you should add it to your tasks, or just try to start it and if it fails, leave it to us
[02:28] <carlos> hmm
[02:28] <SteveA> Action: everyone (including those not at the meeting): read https://wiki.canonical.com/SysAdminRtUsageGuide  and subscribe to it
[02:28] <Kinnison> SteveA: url?>
[02:28] <Kinnison> aha
[02:28] <carlos> jamesh: s/you/admins/
[02:28] <SteveA> taking care when writing RT requests will get the request dealt with with fewer round-trips
[02:29] <SteveA> so, will be better all round.
[02:29] <SteveA>  * Voice calls with reviewers (Robert)
[02:29] <lifeless> Voice calls with reviewers seem to be having positive results. Steve and I would like to encourage more of them - it should be a point of pride that you chatted with someone and they agreed with the approach.
[02:29] <lifeless> Accordingly, PQM now accepts p=pre-code-reviewer in the []  section. I.e. [p=lifeless, r=steve] . If the patch you are merging was discussed with someone before coding it, please put p= in your commit message.
[02:29] <SteveA> lifeless: please follow up with a message to the launchpad list
[02:29] <SteveA> seeing as many people are absent today
[02:30] <lifeless> sure fing
[02:30] <lifeless> guv'nor
[02:30] <SteveA> any comments on pre-code-reviewer voice calls?
[02:31] <lifeless> well, thats *a* response
[02:31] <jamesh> the one I did (as a developer rather than a code reviewer) this week was useful.
[02:31] <SteveA> quick poll: who discussed implementation using their voice since the last launchpad meeting.  Say "discussed" if you did, and "not discussed" if you didn't.
[02:31] <SteveA> infrastructure group call counts 
[02:31] <mpt_> not discussed
[02:31] <lifeless> discussed
[02:31] <jamesh> discussed
[02:32] <SteveA> discussed
[02:32] <ddaa> discussed (importd-ng meeting in paris)
[02:32] <Kinnison> discussed (face2face at sprint)
[02:32] <matsubara> not discussed
[02:32] <stub> discussed I think
[02:32] <SteveA> stub: yes, today
[02:33] <SteveA> malcc: ?
[02:33] <malcc> discussed if you count sprinting and our conference call for Soyuz
[02:33] <carlos> not discussed
[02:33] <malcc> I'm still yet to have anything which fits into the new pre-review VOIP template
[02:33] <SteveA> matsubara: try to have some voice calls for bugs you're going to work on.
[02:33] <SteveA> matsubara: you can talk about several bugs in one call with a reviewer.
[02:33] <lifeless> malcc: just about anything fits
[02:34] <matsubara> SteveA: ok, I usually ask salgado or kiko when they're here. not sure if that counts...
[02:34] <lifeless> pretty much *anything* is up for discussion
[02:34] <SteveA> matsubara: it counts.  however, try to spread the calls around the team a bit more.
[02:34] <lifeless> the key point is to talk with someone on the review team about what you are planning to do.
[02:34] <carlos> and also, this week I was not able to use VOIP (this is already fixed)
[02:34] <SteveA> lifeless: even names for porno film equivalents of mainstream movies
[02:34] <lifeless> i.e. - ddaa - talking with folk at the importd-ng team, unless there was a reviewer there, probably does not count
[02:35] <ddaa> mh... Kinnison, celso, malcc, no reviewer
[02:35] <SteveA> i'd say they count as co-reviewers for soyuz design
[02:36] <SteveA> overall point: use voice calls more to discuss design plans with reviewers
[02:36] <SteveA>  * Keep, Bag, Change
[02:36] <SteveA> with countdown
[02:36] <SteveA> 7
[02:36] <SteveA> 6.2
[02:36] <SteveA> 4.8
[02:36] <SteveA> 4.1
[02:36] <SteveA> 3
[02:36] <SteveA> 2.000000001
[02:36] <SteveA> 1
[02:36] <SteveA> john donne
[02:36] <mpt_> What's this, the Windows 3.0 Calculator?
[02:37] <SteveA>  * Three sentences
[02:37] <ddaa> DONE: a bit of cscvs, importd-ng meeting, travel to Vilnius
[02:37] <ddaa> TODO: Europython
[02:37] <ddaa> BLOCKED: no
[02:37] <Kinnison> SteveA|Pentium60
[02:37] <SteveA> please go ahead
[02:37] <lifeless> DONE: UDS, pypy initial optimiation meeting, various bzr optimisations and planning for more, private branch specification, private spec spec, some more I forget
[02:37] <lifeless> TODO: talks for EP, go to EP, go home.
[02:37] <lifeless> BLOCKED: time in day is too short
[02:37] <jamesh> DONE: code reviews, land bzrsync speedup branch, Subversion symlink support for cscvs, zope3 spec metadata import
[02:37] <jamesh> TODO: code reviews, finish up svn symlink support, dyson http proxy bug
[02:37] <jamesh> BLOCKED: no
[02:37] <mpt_> DONE: Wiki cleanup; Rosetta bashing; mostly non-LP stuff this week
[02:37] <malcc> DONE: publish-distro-optimization working.
[02:37] <malcc> TODO: Proper testing for it, peer review for process-upload-tidy, landing both.
[02:37] <malcc> BLOCKED: No
[02:37] <mpt_> TODO: DescriptionMarkup spec, UsabilityProcess spec, help land menus
[02:37] <mpt_> BLOCKED: Need reply from Kiko to schedule call about specs
[02:37] <Kinnison> DONE: Paris conference, recovery-there-from. Review response work for bug-47770 and queue-prettiness. Design work for b-u-s and n-s-s. Had soyuz voip conference at last.
 DONE: Fixed bug in support tracker, attend Malone and support sprint 
 TODO: Write specs based on sprint discussion, finish KarmaContext implementation.
 BLOCKED: none
[02:37] <Kinnison> TODO: More voip conferences. Finish review responses. Begin coding for b-u-s.
[02:37] <Kinnison> BLOCKED: None
[02:37] <stub> DONE: Test suite refactoring
[02:37] <stub> TODO: Test suite refactoring
[02:37] <stub> BLOCKED: No
 DONE: sprinting in Paris and London
 TODO: more sprinting in Lodon. start working on UpstreamForwardingWorkflow.
 BLOCKED: no
 DONE: Worked on bug 34050, reviewed some code, travelled to London and attended the sprint.
 TODO: Sprint until friday, go back home, code review and other bug fixes.
 BLOCKED: No
[02:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 34050 in launchpad-support-tracker "Unable to retarget support request" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/34050
[02:37] <carlos> DONE: Ubuntu sprint, bug 50474, bug 50472, bug 40550, OO.org debugging, performance problem introduced by rev 3710
[02:37] <carlos> TODO: OO.org fixes, breezy -> dapper -> edgy translations migration, open edgy translations
[02:37] <carlos> BLOCKED: no
[02:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 50474 in rosetta ""Save & Continue" loses "untranslated" filter." [High,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/50474
[02:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 50472 in rosetta ""Save & Continue" at 100% complete translation leads to nonexistent page." [High,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/50472
[02:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 40550 in rosetta "Further filtering options for the Queue" [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/40550
 DONE: malone/support sprint: work on release targetting, bug forwarding, support enhancements. performance fixes (and regressions) in Rosetta and milestones. management. fire drills.
 TODO: finish sprint, move back home, tackle email and launchpad report. I suck at reporting btw and have no sent the latest one out :-(
 BLOCKED: not really that I can remember. elmo's been great with my RT requests, btw! thanks!
 DONE: flu, some progress towards updating twisted (for bug 33223), reviews
 TODO: Get well, finish disable-account, bzr smart server, merge fix for bug 33223.
 BLOCKED: no
[02:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 33223 in launchpad-bazaar "SFTP server should give human-friendly errors for name restrictions" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33223
[02:37] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 33223 in launchpad-bazaar "SFTP server should give human-friendly errors for name restrictions" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/33223
[02:37] <cprov> DONE: UDS, email catch up, Soyuz implementation plan, fix queue tool
[02:37] <cprov> TODO: follow Soyuz implementation plan
[02:37] <cprov> BLOCKED: None
[02:38] <matsubara> DONE: fixed regexp on analyse script, fixing oops bugs, skype call with stub, bug triage, report analysis
[02:38] <matsubara> TODO: more oops bugs and more triage
[02:38] <matsubara> BLOCKED: no
[02:38] <SteveA> DONE: work on bzr talks, code review, infrastructure stuff, management stuff
[02:38] <SteveA> TODO: EuroPython conference, work on bzr talks
[02:38] <SteveA> BLOCKED: no
[02:38] <SteveA> thanks elmo
[02:38] <SteveA> I don't see any blockages
[02:39] <SteveA> any other issues?
[02:39] <SteveA> say "wait, I have something important to say for the attention of the whole team" to stop the countdown
[02:39] <SteveA> 4
[02:39] <SteveA> 3
[02:39] <SteveA> 2
[02:40] <SteveA> 1
[02:40] <SteveA> MEETING ENDS
[02:40] <SteveA> thank you all
[02:40] <LarstiQ> Can I ask what the python.org tracker status is? http://wiki.python.org/moin/CallForTrackers
[02:40] <ddaa> maybe that's too long a sentence to type in such a short time
[02:40] <malcc> Thanks
[02:40] <Kinnison> ddaa: C&P
[02:40] <LarstiQ> irssi history
[02:40] <carlos> thanks 
[02:40] <SteveA> LarstiQ: the people most involved are not at this meeting, because they're sprinting in London.
[02:41] <cr3> I would like to log an improvement to the Ubuntu installer, what package name should I enter?
[02:41] <SteveA> jamesh is involved in looking at the import code, though.
[02:41] <mpt_> cr3, "ubiquity"
[02:41] <SteveA> jamesh: I guess this is still on your todo list, after finishing some of the other things you're doing right now.
[02:41] <LarstiQ> SteveA: would it hurt to put a launchpad up there right now?
[02:42] <LarstiQ> s/launchpad/& entry/
[02:42] <SteveA> LarstiQ: yes, because we don't yet fulfill the requirements of putting Launchpad up there now
[02:42] <LarstiQ> SteveA: aha.
[02:42] <SteveA> the call specifically says that we must put up details of a test instance for them to use
[02:42] <SteveA> we don't have one ready currently
[02:43] <LarstiQ> roundup also doesn't atm.
[02:43] <jamesh> SteveA: yeah.  I haven't really looked at it much since your email -- I just did a quick look over the effbot's SF.net tracker export code (which I sent a mail to the list about)
[02:43] <Kinnison> SteveA: I'm trying to learn how ZPT/TAL/TALES/METAL work again, so that I can better understand how the page templates for launchpad fit together.
[02:43] <Kinnison> SteveA: I've been reading the specifications, but I'm confused as to the behaviour of METAL a little
[02:44] <Kinnison> SteveA: in particular, in the pages we have <metal:heading fill-slot="pageheading">...</metal:heading> but I ca find no definition of the <metal:heading> tag anywhere
[02:44] <Kinnison> SteveA: also, we appear to have more than just fill-slot entries in a use-macro lump and I was wondering how it all gets resolved cleanly
[02:45] <Kinnison> SteveA: I.E. what happens if I use-macro inside a use-macro ?
[02:45] <Kinnison> the spec is very vague
[02:45] <SteveA> jamesh: i think we need to wait for Categories to land before it is practical to import the data well.  please do talk with bjorn or brad about progress on that.
[02:45] <jamesh> SteveA: okay.
[02:45] <SteveA> Kinnison: you can use tags called tal:whatever and metal:whatever
[02:46] <SteveA> these tags will be omitted from the output, but can still contain tal or metal attribute language commands
[02:46] <jamesh> ddaa: I've got my Subversion symlink branch up on the pending reviews page as work-in-progress.  If you have any comments on it, that would be useful.
[02:46] <SteveA> so the tag might as well be <div metal:fill-slot="pageheading">  except that we're not interested in it being a div
[02:46] <SteveA> Kinnison: does that answer your first question?
[02:47] <Kinnison> I thought fill-slot deliberately ommitted the tag containg the fill-slot attribute anyway?
[02:47] <SteveA> LarstiQ: that's interesting.  However, if roundup is not following the rules, that's no reason for us not to do so.
[02:47] <jamesh> ddaa: I ran into a pybaz bug while writing it (WorkingTree.delete failing for symlinks), which I'm merging a fix for right now
[02:47] <Kinnison> Or is the slot the entire tag?
[02:47] <Kinnison> s/tag/subtree/
[02:48] <SteveA> Kinnison: can't remember.  suck it and see.
[02:48] <LarstiQ> SteveA: agreed, after rereading the original call, the current approach seems right.
[02:48] <SteveA> LarstiQ: thanks for supporting us in this.
[02:48] <SteveA> I appreciate it.
[02:49] <SteveA> maybe you'll be interested in testing the test instance, when we have it going?
[02:49] <LarstiQ> SteveA: sure!
[02:49] <Kinnison> SteveA: okay, so that is the first question. Now the second (namely how nested use-macro fill-slot use-macro subtrees work)
[02:49] <LarstiQ> SteveA: lp has been one of the nicer trackers to use, I'm all for spreading its use.
[02:49] <SteveA> Kinnison: second question... I have no idea what doing a use-macro inside a use-macro is as such.  I expect it would work if you use a macro to fill a slot.
[02:50] <LarstiQ> especially for projects I care about like python.
[02:50] <SteveA> LarstiQ: if you have a weblog, write a weblog entry about launchpad, and mention it to jdub
[02:50] <LarstiQ> SteveA: that is blocked on me finally taking the time to set up NewsBruiser ;)
[02:51] <jamesh> SteveA: as I said in the email, if we create LP people for all the comments, we'll likely get lots of duplicates since hardly anyone registers their $USERNAME@users.sourceforge.net emails on LP
[02:51] <SteveA> Kinnison: I generally set up a template or two, and just experement with more complex macro things, to test the concept
[02:51] <SteveA> Kinnison: such experiments could be done as pagetests on the pagetest layer, and checked into launchpad
[02:51] <lifeless> jamesh: however, they can claim the email addresses right ?
[02:52] <SteveA> we may want to do some legwork
[02:52] <stub> mpt_: staging is back up btw
[02:52] <SteveA> and special-case these things
[02:52] <mpt_> thanks stub
[02:52] <lifeless> how many people are we talking about ?
[02:52] <lifeless> 30? 300 ? 3000?
[02:52] <SteveA> a few 10s I think
[02:52] <jamesh> lifeless: yep.  But unlike the Ubuntu import where a fair proportion of the emails matched up, I'd expect close to zero to match here
[02:53] <jamesh> SteveA: a lot more than that if we correctly attribute bug comments
[02:53] <jamesh> a middle ground would be to lose attribution of comments and just create people for assignees
[02:53] <SteveA> i would worry only about assignees, and not about commenters who aren't also assignees somewhere 
[02:55] <jamesh> you also run into the issue of cutting off contact to the original submitters when migrating to LP
[02:55] <LarstiQ> assignees and reporters?
[02:56] <mpt_> jamesh, did we cut off contact to bug reporters when migrating from Ubuntu's Bugzilla?
[02:56] <jamesh> unless we auto-approve all the @users.sf.net email addresses (we did something like this for the ubuntu bugzilla import, but it is a bit more difficult to claim that SF users conscented to receive email from us
[02:57] <jamesh> mpt_: no.  We auto-validated the emails registered in bugzilla, so they'd still receive email
[02:57] <mpt_> exactly
[02:57] <mpt_> Arguably by reporting a bug about Python, they consented to receive e-mail from the Python bug tracker...
[02:58] <mpt_> and that tracker's going to change to *something* else
[02:58] <jamesh> mpt_: except that you could argue that they consented to receive email from SF.net/VA Software
[02:58] <mpt_> whatever that happens to be, reporters will still expect e-mail
[02:59] <jamesh> the subscriber lists for bugs are not exposed, so there will be some degree of cutoff
[03:00] <mpt_> carlos, around?
[03:06] <SteveA> jamesh / mpt_: I'd like you to capture these points in some NOTES.txt notes for the python bugtracker entry
[03:07] <jordi> gee, it was impossible for me to be here at 3 sentences time
[03:07] <jordi> who should I mail them to?
[03:08] <SteveA> kiko: how is the "categories" stuff going?
[03:08] <kiko> wassat?
[03:08] <SteveA> we were talking about the launchpad entry into the python call for bugtrackers
[03:08] <SteveA> bug categories
[03:08] <kiko> right
[03:09] <SteveA> doing an import and setting up a test server is blocked on having categories
[03:09] <SteveA> so I want to make sure it isn't falling off the TODO list
[03:15] <kiko> sure.
[03:15] <kiko> malone/+specs
[03:16] <kiko> it's listed
[03:23] <mpt_> jordi, mailing them to me should work
[03:23] <mpt_> as in, should result in them being recorded for posterity :-)
[03:25] <jordi> mpt_: good
[03:43] <carlos> mpt_: Hi, I'm back
[06:11] <SteveA> matsubara: ping
[06:12] <matsubara> SteveA: pong
[08:02] <truva> heyy
[08:03] <carlos> truva: hi
[08:04] <truva> h are u?
[08:04] <abzde> me be here!
[08:04] <abzde> yay me
[09:33] <mdke> spiv: here?
[09:57] <mdke> spiv: unping