[01:24] <theCore> hi LaserJock
[01:42] <LaserJock> hi theCore 
[01:43] <theCore> LaserJock: how was the Summit?
[01:43] <LaserJock> good
[01:43] <LaserJock> lots of work, little sleep
[01:43] <theCore> did they talks about the docs?
[01:43] <LaserJock> a blast
[01:44] <LaserJock> no
[01:44] <LaserJock> not really
[01:44] <theCore> so it was coding intensive?
[01:44] <LaserJock> yep
[01:44] <theCore> that's sweet
[01:44] <LaserJock> jsgotangco and I were the only doc people and there weren't really any doc specs
[01:45] <jsgotangco> mm??
[01:45] <jsgotangco> oh yeah
[01:45] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: are you talking care of that .pot for ESA?
[01:45] <jsgotangco> hmm i haven't been on to it yet
[01:45] <jsgotangco> if you have time to do it, i appreciate it
[01:45] <LaserJock> I can't remember if you were doing it or if it was it
[01:45] <LaserJock> bah, s/it/me/
[01:46] <LaserJock> well, I think I have a .pot on my computer, I just wanted to make sure it was done right
[01:46] <theCore> LaserJock: did you learned some french words?
[01:46] <theCore> ;)
[01:46] <LaserJock> theCore: not really
[01:47] <theCore> :'(
[01:47] <jsgotangco> c'est magnifique la tour eiffel!
[01:47] <theCore> ha!
[01:47] <LaserJock> heh, it was nice
[01:47] <theCore> bien accord en plus. :)
[01:49] <theCore> LaserJock: did they resolve the internals conficts about Xgl?
[01:50] <jsgotangco> there really wasn't that much coding involved...thats reserved for the distro sprint
[01:51] <theCore> I mean between developers 
[01:51] <LaserJock> I didn't hear anything about Xgl
[01:52] <theCore> Xgl is gone mainstream now, peoples will looks for it 
[01:52] <LaserJock> bah, I was hoping we could take it out of the archives
[01:52] <LaserJock> oh well
[01:52] <theCore> hehe
[01:53] <jsgotangco> it'll probably be in the archives but not installed by default
[01:55] <theCore> that's ok, as long peoples can install it without to much trouble, the best would to the simplify that to `apt-get install xserver-xgl'
[01:55] <theCore> anyway, it's going offtopic
[01:55] <theCore> no more Xgl talk for me, more doc talk ;)
[01:56] <LaserJock> well, I guess people should be able to do what they want, but I'm not going to deal with Xgl bugs
[01:56] <LaserJock> I've already got a few
[01:59] <theCore> LaserJock: did you restarted working actively on the Packaging Guide?
[01:59] <LaserJock> not really
[01:59] <LaserJock> I've got a bad cold
[02:00] <LaserJock> and I'm trying to figure out how to divide up my Ubuntu time between all my projects
[02:01] <Plug_> I'm happy to help out with the packaging guide.
[02:01] <theCore> on my side, I try to find a way to procrastinate less
[02:08] <theCore> it's not really a problem after all, I just love reading tech articles, but I wish I could do something useful with my time ...
[02:09] <LaserJock> well, I'm going to just encourage people to send patches
[02:10] <jsgotangco> did you get to talk to iwj about the developer resource thing?
[02:10] <LaserJock> I didn't
[02:10] <jsgotangco> doh
[02:10] <jsgotangco> you chickened out?
[02:10] <LaserJock> yep
[02:10] <jsgotangco> doh
[02:10] <LaserJock> tbh, he is a bit scary in person ;-)
[02:11] <jsgotangco> huh?
[02:11] <jsgotangco> aggressive yes, but not scary
[02:11] <LaserJock> well, he's pretty intense and incredibly good
[02:11] <jsgotangco> he's passionate for sure
[02:11] <LaserJock> yeah
[02:12] <LaserJock> not scary in a bad way so much
[02:12] <LaserJock> intense is a good word
[02:12] <LaserJock> but I really didn't have much of a chance to ask him and I didn't push it
[02:13] <jsgotangco> and you had time to play mao with him heh
[02:14] <LaserJock> yeah, but I didn't feel like a point of order to ask him about it ;-)
[02:15] <LaserJock> mostly, I haven't had a chance to look at it in depth so I didn't really know what I'd ask him about it
[02:15] <LaserJock> the only thing I'm worried about it maintianing it as a patch to the Debian package
[02:27] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: how big is the delta from iwj's draft to that of upstream if there is any?
[02:29] <LaserJock> hmm, well so far he has done the intro
[02:31] <LaserJock> and a diff of the plain text version is 27k
[02:35] <LaserJock> I'm wondering if it would be better to fork rather than keep up a patch, especially since it will replace the Debian version
[02:39] <jsgotangco> hmmmm
[02:39] <jsgotangco> does make some sense though
[02:39] <jsgotangco> while the diff isnt that big yet
[02:42] <LaserJock> yeah, I'm just afraid the diff is going to get huge when I start getting into the meat of it
[02:44] <jsgotangco> just a thought would it be more relevant to update the packaging guide early into edgy so that new people might want to refer to it?
[02:45] <jsgotangco> just change the stuff from dapper to edgy for example
[02:47] <LaserJock> yeah, although it really hasn't changed
[02:47] <jsgotangco> yeah
[02:47] <LaserJock> I tried to write it so it would be relevent during the edgy cycle
[02:48] <LaserJock> but there will probably be some changes soon
[02:52] <jsgotangco> is it possible to create a pbuilder for edgy now?
[02:52] <crimsun> yes, both from within dapper and from within edgy
[02:53] <crimsun> though I wouldn't update to edgy's sudo atm
[02:53] <crimsun> it takes a bit more finagling from within dapper
[02:53] <jsgotangco> ahhh
[02:56] <crimsun> are you creating an edgy pbuilder within dapper?
[02:57] <jsgotangco> well trying to at the moment
[02:58] <jsgotangco> or should i just create a dapper one then update it?
[02:58] <crimsun> the latter
[02:58] <crimsun> this way:
[02:58] <crimsun> http://pastebin.ca/74443
[02:58] <crimsun> cp /usr/share/doc/pbuilder/examples/pbuilder-distribution.sh ~
[02:58] <crimsun> then apply the diff
[02:59] <crimsun> sorry, use http://pastebin.ca/74444
[02:59] <crimsun> that's more correct semantically ;)
[03:07] <jsgotangco> ok
[03:51] <crimsun> err
[03:51] <crimsun> did you use the diff I gave you?
[03:51] <crimsun> http://pastebin.ca/74444, that is
[03:51] <crimsun> if so, you already have an edgy pbuilder
[03:52] <crimsun> presuming you named it pbuilder-edgy.sh, that is
[03:54] <jsgotangco> doh! i forgot
[03:58] <crimsun> well, it won't hurt either way :)
[04:51] <nixternal> where you attacking from?
[04:51] <nixternal> i hitting all the little guys right now
[04:51] <nixternal> the quick 5 minute ones...trying to knock down the fire a little bit
[04:51] <robotgeek> nixternal: not sure, you just inspired me :)
[04:52] <nixternal> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AdvancedCommandlineHowto   <- useless
[04:56] <robotgeek> i guess its better to link to bash scripting guide
[04:58] <robotgeek> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CommandlineHowto is also useless
[04:58] <nixternal> they all are ;)
[04:58] <nixternal> im doing americas army one now
[04:58] <nixternal> im dl'n and installing too ;)
[05:00] <robotgeek> hmm, i cant delete pages?
[05:00] <nixternal> ya..mdke hasn't added all of us..only certain ones i guess
[05:01] <nixternal> i believe him and madpilot have the powah
[05:01] <robotgeek> kk, cool. ill just make a list of pages to delete!
[05:01] <nixternal> would be nice to make a CategoryRemove or CategoryDelete
[05:02] <robotgeek> yup
[05:07] <nixternal> hmm...in gnome...if you want to run an application...is it Gnome Menu > Run Application ??
[05:12] <robotgeek> yes
[05:13] <robotgeek> alt + f2 also works
[05:15] <nixternal> ty
[05:15] <nixternal> same with kde then
[05:16] <nixternal> i didn't feel like starting up my vmware..but i might have to if i want to knock some of these out quickly
[05:19] <robotgeek> i'm knocking the top20 first
[05:22] <nixternal> americas army is done
[05:23] <nixternal> i will start from #21 then
[05:25] <nixternal> is there a standard for text editor?   i keep seing sudo gedit..but that won't work for kde and xfce...and doing a kedit, gedit, whateveredit...how about pick something like nano, vim or the like
[05:25] <Plug_> $EDITOR ;)
[05:26] <Plug_> there is an InstallingSoftware page
[05:26] <Plug_> there could be a TextEditor page that is similar?
[05:26] <Plug_> Edit file X (to learn how, see TextEditor)
[05:26] <Plug_> perhaps they could be replaced with some little Javascript blocks
[05:26] <nixternal> a newbie won't udnerstand $EDITOR
[05:26] <Plug_> so you see "(Help for Ubuntu Kubuntu Xubuntu)" next to it
[05:27] <nixternal> hmm..not a bad idea Plug_
[05:27] <Plug_> and clicking each pops up a little "the text editor for Ubuntu is gedit, access XXX etc"
[05:27] <Plug_> implemented as a template somewhere, that could be quite cool
[05:27] <nixternal> like those stupid rollover links that popup advertisement on some pages...have one for the word editor or something like that
[05:28] <nixternal> however..if the UWN asks for an editor of the human variety..it will place that link there...which becomes annoying
[05:28] <nixternal> as a matter of fact..my idea was bad..because i just realised how much i hate those links ;)
[05:29] <Plug_> Not quite what I had in mind...
[05:29] <nixternal> hehe
[05:29] <nixternal> how do you implament javascript into the wiki?
[05:32] <Plug_> I'm not sure if you can
[05:39] <mgalvin> mdke: yea, yea, i know, i was asked to send a test email but didn't realize that email address had already been whitelisted :-/, i got some amusing responses though :)
[05:41] <jsgotangco> what happened?
[05:42] <jsgotangco> test
[05:42] <jsgotangco> haha
[06:08] <robotgeek> can we create new pages on h.u.c ?
[06:08] <nixternal> yes
[06:09] <nixternal> if they belong in CategoryDocumentation though
[06:09] <nixternal> if they aren't a CategoryDocumentation..i believe they go to w.u.c
[06:09] <robotgeek> essentially DeletionCandidates
[06:09] <nixternal> ahh..i would put it on the old wiki for now
[06:10] <robotgeek> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeletionCandidates
[06:10] <nixternal> that would work
[06:10] <nixternal> that way there you can save yourself the trouble of having to add tags for w.u.c and h.u.c as you come across removal requests for both
[06:10] <nixternal> on w.u.c if the page is at the h.u.c it will forward automaticall
[06:11] <robotgeek> ah, forgot that. i was just copying the urls
[06:11] <nixternal> hehe
[06:15] <mgalvin> jsgotangco: i got dozens of emails back with a *wide* range of "success it worked" types of messages, i am still getting them, hehe
[06:16] <mgalvin> thankfully no one seemed to mind
[06:18] <robotgeek> what would be a good way to modify the switching from windows article to Kubuntu
[06:21] <nixternal> robotgeek: that is a jjesse item...and it hasn't been confirmed nor denied yet
[06:22] <robotgeek> i'll get started on it then, i'm sure he wont mind 
[06:25] <robotgeek> actually, might wait for some more time. looks like amm i am doing i :%s/Ubuntu/Kubuntu
[06:25] <nixternal> well...himself and mdke hasn't yet decided on the layout, the format, and the purpose yet
[06:25] <nixternal> hehe ya
[06:25] <nixternal> that is all going to get seperated eventually i think..as it might go from wiki to docbooks
[06:25] <nixternal> actually..it is..docbooks and from there to h.u.c and lulu more then likely
[06:26] <robotgeek> i'll help when it gets into xml, my vim is setup with keys to do it automagically. 
[06:26] <robotgeek> f6 replaces ubuntu with Kubuntu and so on :)
[06:27] <nixternal> nice
[06:28] <robotgeek> alrite, time to hit the sack then. might tackle the wireless pages tommorow
[06:29] <nixternal> ooh have fun on those
[06:33] <Madpilot> nixternal, regarding CatDoc on h.u.c/c - I've been removing stuff from CatDoc, because *everything* on that wiki should be in CatDoc - it's no longer a useful category
[06:33] <robotgeek> Madpilot: can you also process w.u.c/DeletionCandidates
[06:34] <Madpilot> I'll have a look, sure
[06:34] <nixternal> wo0t
[06:34] <Plug_> can you search/replace the term out?
[06:34] <Plug_> (CatDoc)
[06:34] <nixternal> ahhh Madpilot..i see....so everything is catdoc..so no need for it
[06:34] <nixternal> got it!!!
[06:35] <Madpilot> nixternal, yeah - feel free to suggest more useful Categories for h.u.c/c - 
[06:35] <Madpilot> I just got CategoryGames working again, btw
[06:35] <nixternal> ahh
[06:35] <nixternal> CategoryWifi
[06:35] <nixternal> CategoryNixternal ;)
[06:36] <nixternal> that is actually a great idea with the categories
[06:36] <Madpilot> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CategoryCategory <-- useful, despite the silly name :)
[06:37] <Madpilot> CatWifi or CatWireless makes sense to me
[06:37] <nixternal> CatNet
[06:37] <nixternal> and so on...i like it
[06:38] <nixternal> CategoryKubuntu | CategoryUbuntu | CategoryFreePopCorn
[06:38] <nixternal> i brainfarted on the last one
[06:38] <Madpilot> heh
[06:38] <Madpilot> CatKubuntu & CatXubuntu make sense; CatUbuntu would basically be the default, so I"m not sure if it actually needs to exist...
[06:39] <nixternal> #26 - BulgarianDocumentation/restricted formats dapper
[06:39] <nixternal> wow
[06:39] <nixternal> Madpilot: what was the spec on HowTo pages...was it a rename to remove the howto portion, leaving behind a redirect?
[06:39] <nixternal> spec == policy
[06:40] <Madpilot> nixternal, I think that's the consensus right now
[06:40] <nixternal> ok
[06:40] <nixternal> ty
[06:45] <Madpilot> hi dsas & robitaille 
[06:46] <robitaille> Good evening Madpilot 
[06:46] <nixternal> hiya robitaille
[06:46] <jsgotangco> sup
[06:46] <dsas> Good morning Madpilot and all.
[06:46] <nixternal> hiya dsas
[06:47] <robitaille> And hello nixternal 
[06:47] <jsgotangco> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/photos/UDS-Paris/P6180023.JPG.html
[06:47] <Madpilot> jsgotangco, cool pic
[06:47] <nixternal> www.buntudot.org  <-- i updated all the links to photos today..including your jsgotangco
[06:47] <jsgotangco> yeha heh
[06:48] <jsgotangco> nixternal: you own that domain?
[06:48] <nixternal> nope..imbrandon does
[06:48] <jsgotangco> the group photo doesn't have LaserJock and highvoltage either
[06:48] <Plug_> why buntu. and not ubuntu. ?
[06:49] <robitaille> trademark issue maybe :)
[06:49] <robitaille> I have to say that I generally really impressed by buntudot.org
[06:51] <nixternal> i have no idea..i think because he was trying to hit all of the *buntu's w/ one name
[06:52] <jsgotangco> heh nice wordplay though
[06:52] <Plug_> {,x,k}ubuntu ;)
[07:08] <dsas> nixternal: AutomaticSecurityUpdates has "breezy-security" inside the script text, so it needs genericsing somehow. 
[07:08] <dsas> cat /etc/issue
[07:08] <nixternal> ahhh
[07:08] <nixternal> ok
[07:08] <dsas> oops, wrong window :/
[07:14] <robotgeek> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/bcm43xx is slightly better
[07:17] <robotgeek> i'll fix both the documents, and see if i can merge anything from the AirportExtreme page into the Breezy page
[07:40] <robotgeek> actually, done right now :)
[07:42] <robotgeek> which leads me to a bigger problem, we need to make sure that /device redirects to driver and correctly
[07:44] <robotgeek> anyways, more on that later! 
[07:54] <Madpilot> dammit... is there any way to stop the old wiki from redirecting me? I'm trying to restore some stuff that was moved, and the &^%#@!@# redirects are driving me nuts...
[07:55] <dsas> you can turn off meta-refreshes in some browsers some how.
[07:56] <Madpilot> gah, yes - Opera has that feature... I'd just forgotten it. Thanks.
[07:58] <dsas> The other way is to append ?action=edit to the end of the url when typing it in.
[08:00] <Madpilot> right. Adding #show doesn't actually interupt the damn redirect, which it really should do
[08:27] <jsgotangco> whatever i do, or follow, i still don't seem to get packaging correctly despite the ease of tools available
[08:28] <rob> heh
[08:29] <rob> the packing guide is ok, but its already out of date and a little inaccurate in places
[08:29] <jsgotangco> yep
[08:31] <rob> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/
[08:31] <rob> start there :0
[08:31] <rob> :)
[08:31] <crimsun> those inaccuracies need to be addressed to Jordan
[08:33] <rob> following it to the letter has gotten me smashed on revu
[08:37] <nixternal> robotgeek: ping!
[08:38] <crimsun> rob: "smashed"?
[08:38] <nixternal> Madpilot: ping!
[08:38] <Madpilot> pong?
[08:38] <rob> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2519
[08:38] <nixternal> ahh..where did robotgeek put that delete stuff?
[08:38] <Madpilot> which delete stuff?
[08:39] <nixternal> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Checksum <- grabbed from wikipedia
[08:39] <nixternal> that could be added to a CategoryDelete type of deal
[08:40] <jsgotangco> ive seen worse revus than that
[08:40] <nixternal> CategoryReview <- use this for us little guys that aren't 100% sure what to do with a page..if we don't know if it is safe to remove or not...that way there you head honcho types can review those..just an idea
[08:40] <crimsun> rob: right, the guide isn't designed to be comprehensive, just an intro.
[08:41] <rob> * compat: you should use a compatibility level of 5. <- pretty sure thats not in the guide
[08:41] <crimsun> rob: however, I'm sure Jordan welcomes constructively critical input.
[08:41] <jsgotangco> yeah
[08:41] <crimsun> rob: because you don't /have/ to.
[08:41] <rob> oh, I'm not having a go at the guide or Jordan
[08:41] <crimsun> rob: you can use any dh_compat version you want provided you use the appropriate Standards-Version
[08:42] <crimsun> rob: 5 just happens be "best practice" for that particular commenter
[08:42] <rob> don't get me wrong, just pointing out the guide is only an intro, you need to also do a bit of reading of the wiki to get the full story
[08:42] <jsgotangco> of course
[08:42] <crimsun> rob: the full story lies in the Debian Policy manual.
[08:42] <crimsun> /everything/ you need is in there :)
[08:43] <rob> the guide is ok, just not totally accurate and a bit confusing to new-comers to debian/ubuntu packaging
[08:43] <crimsun> Policy also tends to be far more strict than Ubuntu is
[08:43] <rob> I'm sure it is
[08:44] <jsgotangco> i coould have just tied up iwj in a room and pick his brains heh
[08:46] <crimsun> keep in mind that we also tend to be more strict about /new/ packages entering Ubuntu than packages that are already in Debian
[08:46] <crimsun> anyhow, input into the reworked PG is certainly welcome
[08:47] <jsgotangco> it could certainly help to have some sections segue properly though
[08:48] <crimsun> I believe Jordan has expressed interest in rewriting it completely.
[08:48] <rob> as someone new to Ubuntu packaging just following the guide I just found myself wanting after reading the guide, it was an ok introduction but from the point of view of someone who just read though it recently it needs "something"
[08:49] <crimsun> rob: that something, imo, is the Debian New Maintainer's Guide.
[08:49] <rob> maybe, but there is a real lack of references to it
[08:49] <crimsun> right, it's only mentioned in a cursory manner and in the Appendix.
[08:49] <crimsun> the trick is to ease someone into packaging
[08:50] <jsgotangco> im not sure the hello.tgz sample is a good idea to use as well
[08:50] <rob> yeah, I understand its a fine line to tread :)
[08:50] <crimsun> jsgotangco: I think it's satisfactory to a novice packager.
[08:50] <crimsun> it's a pretty big leap to go from that to mplayer, though
[08:51] <jsgotangco> took me a while to figure out joe from source
[08:51] <crimsun> well, that's one of the problems that will become even more evident as the PG is revised/rewritten
[08:52] <crimsun> to be a packager, one has to have a decent grasp of the source code involved
[08:52] <jsgotangco> yeah
[08:53] <crimsun> how does one draft a guide in a technical manner without alienating people who haven't either much source code or packaging experience?
[08:54] <crimsun> (rhetorical question, there, but one that's apropos)
[08:54] <jsgotangco> i guess it should start with more caveats than just saying CLI experience =)
[08:55] <crimsun> ultimately it would be very cool to have a gui that guides one through it
[08:56] <crimsun> in the meantime, now is an /excellent/ time to get involved in packaging
[08:57] <crimsun> (the merge cycle at the beginning of each dev cycle)
[08:57] <crimsun> usually now is when all the interesting questions appear
[08:57] <tonyyarusso> I've been meaning to learn how to do that - don't know why, just seems like it would be a good skill.
[08:58] <jsgotangco> yes it is
[09:03] <mdke> Madpilot: add ?action=show to the page name
[09:03] <mdke> s/page name/url
[09:04] <Madpilot> mdke, ah, thanks - couldn't remember the syntax
[09:04] <mdke> oh no, actually I seem to remember that not working either
[09:04] <mdke> or was it DeletePage that doesn't work...
[09:07] <Plug_> nixternal: the software installation prog is 'synaptic', not 'synaptics' 
[09:07] <Plug_> (you should also probably link InstallingSoftware instead)
[09:07] <nixternal> oh no..i added an "s" again
[09:07] <nixternal> arg
[09:07] <nixternal> i am bad with that...since i use apt-get
[09:07] <mdke> ynaptic
[09:07] <Plug_> don't mention either, and just say "for info see InstallingSoftware" :)
[09:08] <nixternal> synaptic == apt front end...synaptics == laptop mousey
[09:09] <Plug_> I am tidying up lots of things that say "install X" and then all either go on about how to do install using one of three tools, or link to InstallingSoftware
[09:09] <nixternal> see..i know the "INstallingSoftware" keeps the wording down, therefore making the page smaller...however, i find it annoying to have to switch back and forth between pages to get one task done...just my 2 cents though
[09:09] <Plug_> it would be good to have a question-mark-icon to link, or some such
[09:09] <Plug_> that implies "If you dont know how to do this, click this page"
[09:10] <nixternal> i like that idea now
[09:10] <Plug_> without having to implicitly mention InstallingSoftware, Repositories etc
[09:10] <nixternal> speaking of icons...i need to use some
[09:12] <Plug_> tbh, I think that pages about installing hula and cando etc should assume knowledge of editing sources.list, more so than "how to get MP3 playback"
[09:12] <nixternal> Plug_: i have to agree with you 100% actually, even though i am not sold on the idea all the way..but it is uniform..and it looks good among the pages...
[09:12] <nixternal> now..can you make a link open in a new tab/window in the wiki...like with <a href="fjdaf" target="_blank">
[09:12] <nixternal> so that way, sending a user away from the page, doesn't totally sling them out of the page...but opens a reference in a new window?
[09:12] <nixternal> true
[09:12] <nixternal> as some new user won't be doing either
[09:12] <mdke> nixternal: you shouldn't need to switch back and forward, you only need to learn how to install packages once... eventually you get the hang of it
[09:13] <nixternal> but then again, you never know
[09:13] <mdke> and no, we don't open links in new windows
[09:13] <nixternal> mdke, that works for many, but not all ;)
[09:13] <mdke> well, that is why the page is there
[09:14] <mdke> you can click on the link if you need to, and otherwise, ignore it
[09:14] <nixternal> how about in the introduction to the page...let the reader know, hey this is an easy task or this is a hard task, if you don't know how to install software read this, if you don't know how to add sources do this...and so on
[09:15] <mdke> we could do that
[09:15] <nixternal> like the top heading...  == Introduction == or == Information ==  and under that briefly explain the software or tutorial, and anything the reader might need to know prior to proceding with the tutorial/article
[09:16] <nixternal> that way they don't get half way through and have to jump out of the page to read something else
[09:16] <Madpilot> nixternal, a lot of the tuts & docs we've got are already set up like that - the trouble with RestrictedFormats is that it's such a long page :|
[09:17] <Plug_> nixternal: you end up offering the disclaimer on every page
[09:17] <mdke> it will take a lot of effort to implement that on every page
[09:17] <nixternal> so i have seen ;)...im saying for the CategoryCleanup ones really...and then...
[09:17] <Plug_> it would take 'quick links' in the header, or on every page, to say 'Need to install software?  click here' etc
[09:17] <nixternal> mdke: im talking just catcleanups right now
[09:17] <Plug_> which probably isn't that useful
[09:19] <nixternal> Plug_: the quicklinks...is that an idea that you like or dislike?
[09:20] <Plug_> I think that for tricky subjects, you dont need to tell people how to do things.  Assume they can find out themselves if they dont know.  I assume if you want to install Hula on Ubuntu you're probably handy enough with a command line, or at least know where to look.
[09:20] <Plug_> The game is totally different in 'user facing' pages, rather than 'sysadmin facing' pages
[09:20] <mdke> we should be really conservative about that sort of assumption though
[09:20] <nixternal> very true...but it is the "assumption" part that worries me
[09:21] <nixternal> exactly
[09:21] <Plug_> almost every page suggests installing a package
[09:21] <Plug_> and every other page says to do so from universe or multiverse
[09:22] <mdke> I don't think a link to InstallingSoftware is overly offputting, to be honest
[09:23] <Plug_> mdke: what about InstallingSoftware and Repositories?
[09:24] <mdke> no, still not
[09:24] <Plug_> you could have a consistent ["Repositories" Enable Universe and Multiverse]  link
[09:24] <Madpilot> night all
[09:28] <nixternal> g'nite all
[09:32] <mdke> Plug_: actually, both aren't necessary, the latter should be part of the former
[09:33] <mdke> yeah, a consistent link is a good idea. We use "Add, Remove and Update Applications" for the distro docs, iirc.
[11:14] <jenda> Who updates https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ ?
[11:15] <jsgotangco> robitaille
[11:15] <jenda> OK
[11:46] <sivang> hi folks
[11:47] <sivang> where can I discuss translator team admin issues? :)
[11:48] <jenda> what issues?
[11:48] <jenda> If it's a misbehaving admin, it might be a CC issue.
[11:48] <sivang> no, I'm the admin :-)
[11:49] <jenda> good ;)
[11:49] <jenda> are you misbehaving?
[11:50] <rjls> heh
[11:50] <sivang> jenda: oh no :_)
[11:50] <jsgotangco> lol
[11:50] <sivang> anyways, I have this person who wants to join the translator team. This team being basically the moderators team for the language, I take extra care before I approve someone
[11:50] <sivang> so otherwise they need to contribute some on the Israeli wiki, 
[11:51] <jsgotangco> yeah
[11:51] <sivang> or show me some translations suggestions they have done
[11:51] <sivang> but this guy just sent me some links about coding projects he has done, no apparent translation works.
[11:52] <sivang> He seems nice, though, and we are in need of some more active moderators for the suggestions we receive. Question is, should I approve him based on that, or ask him to work some on the wiki/rosetta before I do so?
[11:52] <jsgotangco> well its your call really
[11:52] <sivang> (I'm concenred he might get turned off by that, and I will loose a propspective moderator)
[11:54] <sivang> what have other loco team leads done in similar situations?
[11:54] <sivang> do we have a guideline doc for that?
[11:57] <jsgotangco> well
[11:57] <jsgotangco> i admin one language team in LP
[11:57] <jsgotangco> its pretty hard to get volunteers for such
[12:17] <mdke> sivang: we don't have a guideline, but I wrote some suggestions about how to do that on my blog, and I think a lot of translation teams have gone down similar lines.
[12:18] <mdke> http://www.mdke.org/blog/Ubuntu_Translation___Quality_Assurance.html
[12:18] <mdke> that's what the italian team does anyhow
[12:18] <mdke> sivang: #ubuntu-translators or #ubuntu-locoteams is a better place to discuss it though, or either of the mailing lists for those
[12:18] <sivang> mdke: thanks
[01:06] <WaterSevenUb> Hello...I've been away for a while... What's up with the localized help.ubuntu.com/index.cc.html?
[01:06] <mdke> WaterSevenUb: it is now index.html.cc
[01:06] <mdke> (it should automatically appear in your browser though when you go to help.ubuntu.com)
[01:06] <WaterSevenUb> mdke, :) ok.thx.
[01:07] <WaterSevenUb> mdke, based on IP? based on firefox?
[01:07] <mdke> based on browser language
[01:07] <WaterSevenUb> mdke, yeah...ok... pt does not work then ;)
[01:07] <mdke> right, thanks
[01:09] <WaterSevenUb> (fortunately, firefox and OO will probably be portuguese ready in upstream for edgy... )
[01:12] <WaterSevenUb> (it works if you define portuguese manually i guess)
[01:14] <mdke> WaterSevenUb: when does it work and when doesn't it work?
[01:16] <WaterSevenUb> mdke, After normal installation in Portuguese, as firefox does not have native PT support, it will not point to the portuguese documentation. However, if you manually go to the preferences in firefox and select "Portuguese" as prefered language, it will load correctly.
[01:16] <WaterSevenUb> so, no problem for you :)
[01:22] <mdke> WaterSevenUb: oh good, so it works
[01:24] <WaterSevenUb> btw, a translator is asking me if there will be xubuntu-docs new package with new translations....
[01:25] <mdke> hope so
[03:12] <jjesse> phillbull are you there?
[05:10] <jjesse> mdke: the two files adeptupdater adn addremoveprograms should validate could you edit the make file so ic ould build them :)
[05:12] <jjesse> hmmm looks like its time to rewrite the kubuntu release notes to solve bug #48525
[05:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 48525 in kubuntu-docs "Problems with Dapper Release Notes for Kubuntu" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48525
[05:18] <mdke> jjesse: yes ok
[05:18] <jjesse> mdke: thanks something i still need to learn how to do :)
[05:19] <jsgotangco> doesnt adept have a bzr branch yet so that the manual can be added on development upstream
[05:19] <jsgotangco> that's what we did with g-a-i and u-m
[05:19] <jsgotangco> mdke: i'll delete the g-a-i and u-m on trunk now
[05:20] <jjesse> jsgotangco: not that i'm aware of
[05:22] <mdke> jsgotangco: ah, nice
[05:23] <mdke> I would have thought we can delete repos/vendor too
[05:24] <jsgotangco> yeah we're not doing any vendor drops anyways
[05:38] <mdke> jjesse: I'm going to put each document in a separate directory, if that is ok
[05:40] <mdke> jjesse: you may have to adjust the links to the images after I do that
[05:43] <mdke> oh no, actually maybe that isn't necessary
[05:45] <mdke> meh
[05:45] <mdke> perhaps it is
[07:07] <jsgotangco> goodnight
[08:14] <jjesse> mgalvin: ping?
[08:19] <nixternal> i like the whole "marco, polo" thing better then teh "ping, pong" stuff ;)
[08:20] <LaserJock> hehe
[08:20] <nixternal> marco
[08:20] <jjesse> i guess i didn't realize how "short" this release was until i took a look at the erelease schedule
[08:20] <LaserJock> yeah
[08:20] <LaserJock> it is very short
[08:21] <jjesse> doc free is sept. 14th
[08:21] <nixternal> ya jjesse...there isn't much time on this one
[08:21] <nixternal> we are only 4 months from release
[08:21] <nixternal> no 6mo cycle this time around
[08:22] <jjesse> just means we got get cranking on the documents
[08:22] <LaserJock> well, luckily we got a lot done in Dapper
[08:23] <LaserJock> if we make sure our existing docs are in good order, then anything else will more or less be icing on the cake, IMO
[08:23] <jjesse> we should have screen shots :)
[08:26] <jjesse> mgalvin: anyways was just wondering if you were going to be doing the Knot Wiki pages like you did for Dapper Flights?
[08:26] <nixternal> meeting time for the doc team by the way this sounds ;)
[08:27] <nixternal> i got to learn all this stuff, as i want to help contribute as much as possible
[09:23] <Karderio> mdke :  re :)
[09:25] <Karderio> I noticed there were still a few documentation pages on the wiki, I transferred a bunch yesterday, I got fed up with that so I've started to write a script to transfer them automatically. Could this be useful ? 
[09:26] <mdke> Karderio: not really... it would require physical access to the machine probably
[09:26] <Karderio> well the script is almost functional already...
[09:27] <Karderio> it just pretends to be firefox ;)
[09:27] <mdke> are there lots of pages?
[09:27] <Karderio> well I did maybe 5/6 yesterday, I have noticed at least five others... it looked like a nest of them
[09:28] <mdke> just tag em with CategoryDocumentation and we can try and inspire some wiki contributors to help move them
[09:28] <Karderio> they would do this by hand ?
[09:29] <nixternal> mark um and i shall fix um ;)
[09:30] <mdke> hmm
[09:30] <Karderio> okay, if you like, but it would only take 5 minutes to finish the script - this would automate this. perhaps you know somthing I don't ;) hidden server magic ;)
[09:30] <mdke> have you tested it?
[09:32] <Karderio> i've tested the bit that gets the page - the bit that creates new page and replaces old one with redirect - the bit that logs you in... now the just have to play nicely together
[09:32] <Karderio> :)$
[09:56] <Karderio> should https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport live in the communitydocs ?
[09:57] <mdke> no, we decided not
[09:59] <mdke> erm
[09:59] <mdke> who deleted AddingRepositoriesHowto
[09:59] <mdke> disgraceful
[10:00] <jjesse> inot me
[10:00] <mdke> oh, no one. It missed out in the move because it was a redirect
[10:00] <mdke> damn, there are going to be quite a few of those
[10:02] <jjesse> bumer
[10:02] <mdke> oh well!
[10:02] <mdke> jjesse: see my message earlier about moving those documents into separate directories?
[10:02] <jjesse> mdke: i think i missed it but i can take care ofi t
[10:03] <jjesse> makes better sense?
[10:03] <mdke> yes, it helps for building
[10:03] <jjesse> i'll get it done then
[10:03] <mdke> I'd suggest adept/ as the base directory, then have adept/addremoveprograms/C/ etc
[10:03] <mdke> and adept/figures/C
[10:03] <mdke> you may have to fix some links for the images
[10:04] <jjesse> yeah i will
[10:04] <jjesse> right now trying to figure out why kubuntu/releasenotes/C/releasenotes.xml won't validate
[10:05] <mdke> I'll fix that for you at some stage if you like
[10:05] <jjesse> i'd like to figure it out
[10:05] <mdke> I've got quite good at that from fixing endless translations
[10:06] <mdke> alright
[10:06] <jjesse> but i'll ask if i can't, i have to re-write some it cause they didn't likethe style
[10:06] <mdke> sure, no probs
[10:06] <mgalvin> jjesse: so they are going to be called Knot's... yes i would like to do them
[10:07] <jjesse> mgalvin: ok, then i'm going to really aim to get knot1/kubuntu done etc this time around
[10:07] <mgalvin> sweet
[10:07] <mdke> jjesse: btw on the list you mentioned some discussion about the Switching guides, is that off-list?
[10:07] <jjesse> mdke: yeah currently 3 of us are trying to get tother via irc and then present something to the list
[10:09] <Karderio> Perhaps it wold help consistency to move the list of supported wifi cards to the wiki, from help.ubuntu.com ? (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/WirelessCardsSupported)
[10:23] <Karderio> I have marked a few pages on the wiki with CategoryDocumentation. (Installation/FromUSBStick, OnNFSDrive, WindowsDualBootHowTo, Installation/FromHardDriveWithFloppies) Hope it makes sense to move these.
[10:23] <Karderio> more to come when I get a chance
[10:28] <mdke> Karderio: cool
[10:38] <chris-t4> Question. Would it be a good idea to give some people instructions on how to install Ubuntu with Parallels and VMWare on thier machines? I find this much better than dual booting. I think most people don't know this option exists.
[10:40] <mdke> chris-t4: yes, doesn't that exist already?
[10:41] <chris-t4> I have not seen it if it does, other than on Parallel's and VMWare's website.
[10:41] <LaserJock> at least for VMWare there is
[10:42] <mdke> chris-t4: have a look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation
[10:43] <chris-t4> Thanks, I had not seen that.
[11:46] <Karderio_> mdke : I was thinking about "fluffing up" the start here section on the main community documentation page, like I did to the intro...