[12:37] <juantao> hello. the following quip on the CommunityCouncilAgenda wike page indicates I might learn here when the next meeting is going to be held. Anyone know the date and time ? "The next meeting of the Council will be at TBC (ColinWatson to announce) on #ubuntu-meeting on irc.freenode.net" Thanks : - )
[12:38] <jenda> juantao: that means ColinWatson (Kamion) will announce it, and that the meeting will happen here.
[12:39] <jenda> The last meeting happened yesterday, so the next will probably be in two weeks
[12:39] <jenda> The best way to know as soon as possible is to subscribe to changes on the CCAgenda wiki page.
[12:40] <juantao> jenda: Thanks, I don't want to miss it, how often do you recommend I er... guess I missed it. My pending membership is still listed on the stie.
[12:40] <juantao> I'll subscribe - thanks!
[12:41] <jenda> juantao: this one was announced only several hours ahead - most candidates missed it.
[12:41] <juantao> ah. I'll subscribe. Thank you.
[12:42] <jenda> np
[01:52] <GNAM> @schedule rome
[01:52] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 29 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[10:15] <sivang> @schedule Israel
[10:15] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Israel: 29 Jun 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 23:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 23:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 05:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[12:34] <fabbione> @schedule denmark
[12:34] <fabbione> @schedule Italy
[12:34] <fabbione> die
[12:34] <fabbione> @schedule UTC
[12:34] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 29 Jun 14:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 20:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 20:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 12:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[12:34] <dsas> @schedule rome
[12:34] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 29 Jun 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[12:57] <rodarvus> @schedule Sao_Paulo
[12:57] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Sao_Paulo: 29 Jun 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 17:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 17:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 09:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[03:02] <dotwaffle> @schedule London
[03:02] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/London: 29 Jun 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 21:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 21:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 13:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[03:08] <jjesse> @schedule detroit
[03:08] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Detroit: 29 Jun 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 16:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 16:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 12 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[03:44] <mdz> good morning folks
[03:45] <ajmitch> morning mdz
[03:45] <Klaidas> @schedule Vilnius
[03:45] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Vilnius: 29 Jun 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 04 Jul 23:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 23:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 23:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 05:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[03:45] <fabbione> mdz: yo
[03:45] <zul> hey mdz 
[03:50] <mdz> Kamion,Keybuk,Mithrandir,Riddell,benc,dholbach,doko,heno,iwj,mvo,ogra,seb128,sfllaw: ping
[03:51] <doko> pong
[03:51] <mvo> 10 minutes to go?
[03:51] <zul> 9
[03:52] <Hobbsee> 8
[03:53] <Mithrandir> pong
[03:53] <Mithrandir> also, 7.
[03:54] <infinity> 6!
[03:54] <fabbione> mdz: Kamion said that he might be a couple of minutes late
[03:55] <BenC> mdz: pong
[03:56] <doko> hmm, did we want to start with the wiki-prepared reports this week?
[03:56] <fabbione> uh?
[03:56] <fabbione> wiki prepared reports?
[03:57] <infinity> fabbione: There was an intention to pop reports on a wiki page ~24 hours before a meeting, so people could peruse them, prepare questions, and waste less time chatting about useless faff in meetings.
[03:58] <infinity> I suspect that won't happen this week since, well, it's 2 minutes to the meeting and we have no pre-prepared wiki page. :)
[03:58] <Hobbsee> 5, 4, 3, 2?
[03:58] <fabbione> infinity: ok thanks
[03:58] <fabbione> 2
[03:58] <Hobbsee> infinity: people should learn to type fast :P
[03:58] <sfllaw> mdz: Pong.
[03:58] <jbailey> Hobbsee: I suggest ntpdate. =)
[03:58] <Kamion> here
[03:58] <sfllaw> mdz: I'm "on vacation" right now, but I'll be happy to interject.
[03:58] <pitti> hello
[03:58] <sivang> hey jbailey 
[03:58] <jbailey> Heya Sivan et a.
[03:58] <jbailey> +l
[03:58] <zul> hey jeff
[03:58] <heno> hello
[03:59] <TheMuso> Hey all.
[03:59] <Hobbsee> jbailey: heh.
[03:59] <infinity> sfllaw: There's an unwritten law that people on VAC should NOT ATTEND MEETINGS, GO HAVE A LIFE, ARGH.
[03:59] <mdz> sfllaw: unfortunately it's not easy for me to query that in an efficient way
[03:59] <mdz> sfllaw: if you're on vacation, begone ;-)
[03:59] <sivang> infinity: hehe
[03:59] <mdz> seb, dholbach and riddell are off as well
[04:00] <mdz> iwj: you here?
[04:00] <mdz> ogra,Keybuk: ready?
[04:00] <sfllaw> Ooh.  There's a talk on Software Floating Point that's coming on now.
[04:00] <Keybuk> mdz: yup
[04:00] <iwj> mdz: Yes.
[04:00] <ogra> my ibook constantly hardlocks so i might drop out, but i'm ready 
[04:00] <mdz> ok
[04:00] <ogra> (dapper sucks on that machine)
[04:01] <mdz> today, for variety, we go in case-sensitive ascending order by nick
[04:01] <ogra> (or better with that specific broadcom card)
[04:01] <mdz> Kamion: you're up first
[04:01] <Kamion> haha, ok
[04:01] <Kamion> ue-partitioning-tool: Leftover from Dapper, approved. 5 days.
[04:01] <Kamion> revive-tasksel: Approved. Since this is basically yanking code back in sync with Debian and writing a bit of glue, I expect about 4 days of work allowing for a bit of initial testing.
[04:01] <Kamion> sane-installer-keyboard: Approved. I reckon about 10 days, given that upstream has volunteered to do some of the hard bits (yay). Have given primary responsibility for this to Tollef, although I'm sure I'll still do the odd bit of work on it.
[04:01] <Kamion> no-more-devfs: Approved. I'm estimating about 3 days of work to clear this all u
[04:01] <Kamion> p. If we time it right then we can do it in cooperation with Debian (needs to be
[04:01] <Kamion>  after etch d-i beta 3, which is "soon", but also needs to miss UVF by as little
[04:01] <Kamion>  as possible).
[04:01] <Kamion> seed-cleanup: Drafting; will finish soon. Remaining germinate change is about a day's work.
[04:01] <Kamion> ubiquity-advanced-partitioner: Still drafting, but I'll finish that this week. Calling this 20 days; may need to drag in help, at least from a KDE person for the Qt interface.
[04:02] <Kamion> misc: Merges, merges, merges. Also hideously behind on e-mail; don't expect me t
[04:02] <Kamion> o have read anything on non-announcement mailing lists.
[04:02] <Kamion> oops, apologies for crappy line-wrapping
[04:03] <mdz> Kamion: you have 5 targets approved for edgy so far, though seed-cleanup needs fleshing out
[04:03] <Kamion> what one did I miss?
[04:03] <mdz> how many more of those do you expect to be able to take on for edgy?
[04:04] <Kamion> or was that counting ubiquity-advanced-partitioner?
[04:04] <Kamion> the above comes to about 7 weeks of development time in total
[04:04] <Kamion> I may have room for some of langpacks-on-cd
[04:04] <mdz> the ones targeted for edgy currently are ue-partitioning-tool, revive-tasksel, no-more-devfs, seed-cleanup and ubuntu-meta-from-bzr [implemented] 
[04:04] <mdz> Kamion: so is the list above the ones you think will fit?
[04:04] <Kamion> yeah
[04:05] <mdz> I think sane-installer-keyboard was recently approved; isn't on the edgy list yet
[04:05] <mdz> please target it to edgy
[04:05] <Kamion> sane-installer-keyboard is targeted to edgy, but I gave it to Tollef
[04:06] <mdz> ah, there it is
[04:06] <Kamion> I've thrown ubiquity-advanced-partitioner at edgy too
[04:06] <mdz> I am sorted by assignee
[04:06] <mdz> ok
[04:06] <mdz> Kamion: thanks
[04:06] <mdz> Keybuk: next
[04:06] <Keybuk> automake-transition: Approved.  our spec has appeared to fuel the Debian maintainer into doing much of the work; we should get this one for free.
[04:06] <Keybuk> teardown: Approved.  Tested at the conference, changes to ubuntu-desktop dependencies can be done once they've been merged, other packages as and when they come up.  Estimated only a day of work to make the changes listed in the spec (they're already done on my laptop).
[04:06] <Keybuk> libata-for-all-ata-disks: Approved.  Will approach this once the merges are out of the way and the kernel patch is in, perfecting the migration is expected to take the bulk of the time, as is testing the new drivers.
[04:06] <Keybuk> boot-message-logging: Approved.  Makes sense to implement it in pair with
[04:06] <Keybuk> replacement-init: Drafting/Approval tennis with Kamion, making sure this is specified right first.  The scope of this specification is deliberately limited for edgy to just replacing /sbin/init and the companion tools.  The specification also contains a hard deadline that must be reached by FeatureFreeze for it to not be deferred.  I believe that this scope is reachable with a high degree of confidence in the implementation and changes by Featu
[04:07] <Keybuk> reFreeze.  I expect this to be the bulk of my work for the edgy timeframe.
[04:07] <Keybuk> dash-as-bin-sh: Implemented
[04:07] <Keybuk> other: the all-new merge-o-matic now running
[04:07] <mdz> Keybuk: doesn't dash-as-bin-sh need an upgrade transition?
[04:07] <Keybuk> mdz: elaborate?  one was not defined in the spec
[04:07] <mdz> Keybuk: I saw your upload to change the debconf default, but that won't affect upgrades, no?
[04:08] <jbailey> I saw it come in today and it switched it here.
[04:08] <Keybuk> it won't affect upgrades if someone had already installed dash ... but then if somebody had done that, they probably set it as the default anyway
[04:08] <fabbione> meh
[04:08] <Kamion> it will affect upgrades from systems that didn't previously have dash installed
[04:08] <Keybuk> dash wasn't previously installed by default
[04:08] <Kamion> Keybuk: not true, it was a dependency of initrd-tools
[04:08] <Kamion> so fresh installs of <=breezy will have it
[04:08] <mdz> yes, pretty much all of my systems have it installed
[04:09] <mdz> anyway, ->offline
[04:09] <Keybuk> ah, that wasn't known
[04:09] <mdz> Keybuk: what's your guess about the doability of replacement-init?
[04:09] <Keybuk> in that case, yes, upgrades from systems with dash already installed need to be adjusted
[04:09] <ogra> i have it too nd this machine has only seen dapper
[04:09] <Keybuk> mdz: should be both doable, stable and everyone actually confident about it -- the scope is deliberately limited to just replacing init and the standard initscripts and not requiring *any* other changes
[04:10] <mdz> Keybuk: and there's no existing init we can adopt rather than NIHing it?
[04:10] <Keybuk> I've set hard deadlines in the spec
[04:10] <Keybuk> mdz: there isn't, sadly :-/
[04:10] <Keybuk> I looked at every single one
[04:10] <Keybuk> welcome to elaborate offline on that
[04:10] <Keybuk> (it would be too much of a discussion here)
[04:10] <mdz> ok
[04:11] <mdz> you should have your hands reasonably full with that
[04:11] <Keybuk> yes, I arranged my other specs on the basis I would have
[04:11] <mdz> Keybuk: thanks
[04:11] <mdz> Mithrandir: next
[04:11] <Mithrandir> optimized-live-cd-layout-for-faster-boot: implemented, just needs to get the list to Adam (post his vacation) and merging into the kernel proper.  Shaved a good 40 seconds off the live cd boot time
[04:11] <Keybuk> (heh, and I had these answer's pre-prepared with C&P :p)
[04:11] <Mithrandir> misc: merges, catching up after Paris, reviewed ubuntu-edgy-cluster, some SoC mentoring
[04:11] <Mithrandir> other specs: no progress
[04:11] <Mithrandir> next week: merges, merges, merges, hopefully get some live cd hacking in there too
[04:12] <ogra> Mithrandir, hey, thats mine i he only borrowed it !
[04:13] <mdz> Mithrandir: so on your edgy list, you have (remaining) sane-installer-keyboard, live-cd-stacked-filesystems, live-cd-write-as-you-go, livecd-sessions
[04:13] <Mithrandir> mdz: yes, and I want to get the live-cd-share-live-cd one in too.
[04:13] <mdz> Mithrandir: is that awaiting review?
[04:13] <Mithrandir> yes
[04:13] <infinity> live-cd-stacked-filesystems needs ot be assigned to both Tollef and I, somehow. :)
[04:14] <infinity> (That won't be too much time for my end though, once he's told me how his end looks)
[04:14] <mdz> you could create a team for it, but I think that would only confuse things
[04:14] <infinity> Barring kernel problems on buildds or other hilarity.
[04:14] <mdz> if the chunks are big enough, split the spec.  if not, just pass it from one of you to the other
[04:14] <BenC> "there are no kernel problems"
[04:14] <fabbione> BenC: ++
[04:15] <mdz> Mithrandir: ok, sounds like a good set of stuff. should be fun
[04:15] <mdz> Mithrandir: thanks
[04:15] <Mithrandir> I certainly hope so.
[04:15] <infinity> BenC: Will you stand by that when I tell you that I'll be using squash and union on buildds multiple times per day without rebooting?
[04:15] <mdz> BenC: oops, I had your nick capitalization wrong in my list; you should have been first of course ;-)
[04:15] <mdz> BenC: you're up
[04:15] <BenC> go now? :)
[04:15] <BenC> libata-for-all-ata-disks: STARTED: Alan's patch is now in the kernel. Waiting for changes to base-files, and boot loaders for upgrades before enabling modules (I'll start on boot loaders, Keybuk has said he'll do the base-files changes to update /etc/fstab)
[04:15] <BenC> linux-kernel-crash-dump: NOT STARTED (still in review). Looks like kdump is what we will be going with. Getting the mechanics right will take the most time on implementing this.
[04:15] <BenC> speakup-inclusion: DONE: Kernel modules are in and building on all but hppa and sparc. This is done for my part. The rest of the work is userspace (unable to update status of spec).
[04:15] <BenC> kernel notes: 2.6.17 final is now in edgy. Linux-restricted-modules was just uploaded, and will be followed by linux-meta soon. This will make 2.6.17 the default kernel in edgy after today (let the bug reporting begin).
[04:15] <BenC> ABAT (automated testing): x86 runs are almost ready to go. PPC64, is in the works. Regression, LTP and benchmark testing will be included in runs now.
[04:16] <Keybuk> BenC: are the modules disabled?  if we have a list, I can blacklist them so we can enable them in the kernel source and just have them disabled from user-space
[04:16] <BenC> infinity: that's not a kernel "problem", that's the kernel being tainted :P
[04:16] <mdz> can someone on the review team commit to giving l-k-c-d a look today?
[04:16] <BenC> Keybuk: I'll send you a list then
[04:16] <mdz> fabbione: would you review it?
[04:17] <Mithrandir> linux-kernel-crash-dump seems not to be targetted for edgy?
[04:17] <mdz> Mithrandir: I've not been targeting specs which aren't approved yet
[04:17] <mdz> though some were targeted before paris inadvertently
[04:17] <Mithrandir> oh, ok
[04:18] <Mithrandir> mdz: I can review it.
[04:18] <mdz> Mithrandir: ok, thanks
[04:18] <Mithrandir> (unless fabio wants to)
[04:18] <mdz> BenC: does your workload seem like a good balance to you?  you should have plenty of spare bandwidth to spend on bugs and tracking upstream
[04:18] <Mithrandir> BenC: do you want comments on IRC or inline in the spec?  Either is fine with me.
[04:19] <BenC> mdz: Yeah, I think I'll be pretty good with specs and time for bug reporting
[04:19] <BenC> mdz: If I fall behind on one or the other, I'll let you know
[04:19] <BenC> Mithrandir: inline is best
[04:19] <Mithrandir> BenC: ok
[04:19] <mdz> BenC: thanks
[04:19] <mdz> doko: next?
[04:20] <doko> - this week:
[04:20] <doko>   - edgy: edgy-toolchain-roadmap: binutils update, preparing gcc-4.1 update
[04:20] <doko>   - edgy: preparing python sync/resync from unstable
[04:20] <doko>   - dapper/edgy: OOo, updating ooo-build to current 2.0.3 milestones, resyncing with debian packaging, updating ubuntu patches, fixing new build failures. (would love to have the dapper-proposed-updates staging area ready)
[04:20] <doko>   - a bit of SoC admin stuff
[04:20] <doko>   - still to do this week: finish edgy+1-toolchain-roadmap, java-roadmap, time estimations.
[04:20] <doko>   - looking at python2.5 for edgy (upstream release planned for Aug 8), idea: "support" 2.4 and 2.5 for edgy, decide in a test environment, if we can safely switch the default (which would be after UVF).
[04:20] <doko> - next week: syncs, syncs, syncs
[04:20] <fabbione> mdz: sorry i have a waterpipe exploded! brb
[04:20] <mdz> doko: it looks like none of your specs are approved yet; what's holding them back?
[04:20] <mdz> fabbione: argh!
[04:20] <pitti> doko: with the new python infrastructure, can we easily switch the default now?
[04:21] <mdz> fabbione: at least you were at home when it happened ;-)
[04:21] <sivang> heh
[04:21] <doko> mdz: didn't set the toolchain specs back to "for review". the "tracking-versions" spec was approved, but made a LP spec
[04:22] <doko> the packaging-hints was given back from review, waiting for a second review
[04:22] <mdz> doko: ok, the hard deadline is next week's meeting; don't wait until the last minute
[04:22] <mdz> doko: if you are having trouble getting reviews, let me know
[04:22] <doko> pitti: yes, but I would like to wait for the rc
[04:22] <doko> mdz: ok
[04:23] <mdz> doko/pitti: is ssp going to land as part of the early toolchain updates?
[04:23] <pitti> mdz: yes, just waiting for the sparc libc problem
[04:23] <doko> mdz: yes, we're waiting for sparc
[04:23] <mdz> gar
[04:23] <pitti> mdz: but the patch is there now, just needs bootstrapping AFAIK
[04:23] <mdz> doko: let's go over your workload once your specs are finalized
[04:23] <infinity> Doesn't need a bootstrap, per se, just a couple of normal uploads.
[04:23] <mdz> doko: thanks
[04:23] <mdz> fabbione is next but is dealing with a water crisis and has my sympathies
[04:24] <mdz> heno: are you here?
[04:24] <doko> mdz: one more thing is OOo 2.0.4 for edgy, release planned for Sep 4 ...
[04:24] <heno> * livecd-access - Review. started working on new boot screen
[04:24] <heno> * access.ubuntu.com - Review. first draft page ready
[04:24] <heno> * sok: Chris Jones the SoC student responsible for it is here now (totroise_) so he might say a few words about it. I think we're ready to make an Edgy package soon though.
[04:24] <heno> * all other specs: still drafting
[04:24] <heno> * Next week: Help the new webmaster write a plan of action and find his way around
[04:24] <mdz> doko: might be possible
[04:24] <Keybuk> mdz: "a water crisis"?  did somebody's waters break?
[04:24] <mdz> Keybuk: <fabbione> mdz: sorry i have a waterpipe exploded! brb
[04:24] <Keybuk> ah
[04:25] <tortoise_> Hi currenly the simple onscreen keyboard is in a working but unpolished state.  It needs keyboard definitions and is missing some features.  It is designed with flexibility in mind.  Layout is defined in svg files which can be made in Inkscape.  Keys are then mapped in a seperate .SOK xml file.    
[04:25] <tortoise_> More info and screenshot here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Projects/SOK
[04:26] <Mithrandir> tortoise_: it'd be really nice if it'd pick up the keyboard definitions from XKB.
[04:26] <mdz> heno: I know that for some of your specs, someone else is intending to do the implementation. is the assignee on your specs up-to-date all around as far as what you will be implementing vs. others?
[04:27] <tortoise_> Mithrandir: I was planning on sriting a script to convert from the GOK definitions
[04:27] <infinity> Mithrandir: Noting that XKB also has the (bizarre) capability to draw keyboards based on its keymaps, too.
[04:27] <ogra> guys !
[04:27] <Mithrandir> infinity: yup.
[04:27] <heno> mdz: the compi-mag one needs my other SoC student to sort out his LP acct so I can assign it to him
[04:28] <heno> mdz: the forum one I'm not quite sure who will take charge of, otherwise they are fine
[04:28] <mdz> heno: forum-integration?  that's marked informational; if there's real work to do, that flag should be cleared
[04:29] <heno> mdz: ok, that's fine too then
[04:29] <mdz> informational specs won't be tracked during the weekly meetings, release milestones, etc. since it's assumed there's no real work to do
[04:29] <mdz> ok
[04:29] <mdz> heno: thanks
[04:29] <mdz> I have an emailed update from Riddell
[04:29] <mdz> done: merges for about half of KDE done, on track to get main done by
[04:29] <mdz> end of next week.
[04:29] <mdz> also: Proofreading Kubuntu specs. Google half term reports, don't forget if you're a mentor
[04:29] <mdz> next week: merges
[04:29] <mdz> specs: several still to be reviewed
[04:30] <mdz> he has a handful of specs approved and targeted for edgy, but a bunch remaining to be reviewed.  I'll go over them with him when he's back
[04:30] <mdz> infinity: next?
[04:30] <infinity> I'd like to apologise in advance for my distro specs being largely in unapproved states.  I spent the majority of the week in Paris wrangling with the soyuz guys (which was very productive), but obviously have some distro slack to pick up as soon as I get back from VAC.
[04:30] <infinity> larger-livefs: Approved, work not yet begun, should be trivial once seed changes happen.
[04:30] <infinity> early-userspace: Still needs to finish drafting, nothing there should be unrealistic for edgy.
[04:30] <infinity> livefs-build-speedups: Will draft on the internal wiki if anyone cares, otherwise it will "just happen".
[04:30] <infinity> ubuntu-server-tasks: Still needs polish before approval, will do when I get back.
[04:31] <infinity> various soyuz-related specs: Most of these are approved or pending approval, and work is ongoing with the soyuz folks to make them happen in the timeframes we require.
[04:31] <infinity> last week: Monday was a complete loss, due to travel (my SIN->MEL flight was horribly delayed, and I got home in time to set up my laptop and pass out), spent the last two days mangling buildds to get the world as sane as possible before I leave.
[04:31] <infinity> next week: VAC all week.
[04:31] <infinity> week after next: Clean up all the above unapproved specs and get time estimates set correctly (and begin work on the more urgent ones)
[04:31] <mdz> infinity: earnly-userspace is marked informational; is that accurate?
[04:31] <mdz> early, even
[04:31] <infinity> mdz: Clearly not, I didn't set that flag.  I'[ll unset it.
[04:31] <Mithrandir> infinity: week after next, I want you too, for the first milestone release.
[04:31] <infinity> Same with ubuntu-server-tasks, for that matter.
[04:31] <infinity> Mithrandir: You have me for that, I can multitask. :)
[04:32] <Mithrandir> that's an early warning for everybody.  First milestone release in approximately two weeks.
[04:32] <mdz> infinity: given your holiday, there isn't much time to get your specs reviewed and approved by the deadline.  you'll need to nag the review team
[04:32] <Keybuk> note for those not reading their e-mail yet, I'm emergency-holographic-adam next week for the buildds
[04:32] <mdz> Mithrandir: please update EdgyReleaseSchedule with the tentative date
[04:32] <infinity> mdz: I'm good at nagging people.  It's in my job description.
[04:33] <mdz> infinity: ok, thanks
[04:33] <mdz> iwj: next?
[04:33] <iwj> done: package-dependency-field-breaks step 1: Made dpkg reject Breaks.
[04:33] <iwj> doing: automated-testing-deployment: Fighting Xen again.
[04:33] <iwj> todo: package-dependency-field-breaks: Implement Breaks properly (anyone who wants me to expedite this please let me know).
[04:33] <iwj> todo: xen-edgy: Pick up and help out (some community work is happening on this already).  Note in this context that sid's kernels now have Xen support.
[04:33] <iwj> todo: Firefox merge.
[04:33] <doko> Keybuk: should/can I help with the python/zope syncs/overwrites next week?
[04:33] <iwj> soon BLOCKED: xen-edgy: will soon be wanted for automated-testing-deployment, I think; I don't want to spend too much effort on my own ad-hoc setup.
[04:33] <iwj> Edgy specs not yet touched by me: xen-edgy (see above); suggest-packages-for-filetypes (mvo has been looking at a bit of this though - thanks).
[04:33] <iwj> BLOCKED?: merges: Is there a way to claim merges yet ?  Isn't this essential to avoid duplicated work ?
[04:33] <iwj> REMINDER: meeting times: Please email iwj@ubuntu.com your current timezone, normal Ubuntu working times and sleep times, by 23:59:59 UTC on 2006-06-30.  If you don't then we'll set the meeting schedule without the necessary information to adapt to your comfort or convenience!
[04:33] <Kamion> for general information, the milestone CDs are hereby known as "Knot CD <N>"
[04:33] <ogra> :)
[04:33] <Keybuk> doko: I'm not sure I understand your question
[04:34] <mdz> iwj: there isn't a proper way to claim merges yet, but in practice there are few of us and it hasn't been much of a problem
[04:34] <Kamion> there have been a couple of clashes this cycle
[04:34] <Keybuk> doko: oh, yes, sorry; I follow -- need to chat to mdz
[04:34] <iwj> mdz: Well, I'll start on firefox tomorrow in the confident expectation no-one will have done it yet and see what people say then.
[04:34] <Kamion> relatively few compared to the sheer number though
[04:34] <mdz> in my response to scott on -devel I proposed that the clashes might not be worth the overhead of using malone
[04:34] <iwj> It'll get worse as the todo list gets shorter.
[04:35] <infinity> Two people already blew a couple of hours each on the vim merge (which is really the fault of whoever didn't merge it with the innital toolchain, as has been tradition.. :P)
[04:35] <mdz> that's one we'll neet to discuss outside of the meeting; there's a thread on -devel
[04:35] <iwj> mdz: OK.
[04:35] <mdz> we have the option of using malone, or the tool that MOTU has, or doing something else
[04:35] <iwj> I just wanted to raise it.
[04:36] <mdz> iwj: don't forget to merge the theme stuff when updating firefox
[04:36] <iwj> You mean the change to the default theme ?
[04:36] <fabbione> bah
[04:36] <fabbione> re
[04:36] <fabbione> mdz: i think i can yes
[04:36] <mdz> iwj: on your edgy list are   	automated-testing-deployment, xen-edgy, breaks and filetypes
[04:36] <fabbione> mdz: (review the spec)
[04:36] <mdz> fabbione: mithrandir offered already
[04:36] <iwj> mdz: Yes.
[04:36] <Keybuk> \o/ Braeks
[04:36] <fabbione> mdz, Mithrandir: ok thanks
[04:37] <iwj> Keybuk: Your speling is Broekn.
[04:37] <Mithrandir> could we tell the person who did the merge last time that we're doing it?  That should generally lead to very few clashes.
[04:37] <Keybuk> iwj: yeah, my cymraeg showing there, sorry
[04:37] <mdz> iwj: does that match your plans, or do you expect to finish/claim any others?
[04:37] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: the person who did the large change is listed on the status page
[04:37] <iwj> iwj: I expect to finish those unless something goes badly wrong.
[04:37] <iwj> If I finish early I'll help out someone who looks desperate.
[04:37] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: exactly, so it's easy to find out and.
[04:37] <mdz> iwj: have you done time estimates for those?
[04:38] <iwj> mdz: Yes, but time estimates are quite rough.
[04:38] <Mithrandir> s/and/who/
[04:38] <mdz> I can't find the LP view which tells me at the moment
[04:38] <iwj> I was reasonably generous.
[04:38] <iwj> So it probably looks like they don't all fit.
[04:38] <mdz> PS, for anyone looking for advice on estimates, I thought http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000245.html was pretty good
[04:38] <iwj> The main risk is to the Xen stuff because of the dependencies.
[04:39] <Keybuk> mdz: "take whatever value you think is appropriate, then multiply by PI" ?
[04:39] <BenC> iwj: Has zul been in touch with you about xen?
[04:39] <mdz> iwj: are you or mvo going to do filetypes?  I'm not fussed either way really
[04:39] <iwj> BenC: Yes.
[04:39] <BenC> iwj: Great, hopefully he can help get that going
[04:39] <mdz> Keybuk: LP doesn't support irrational numbers in that field
[04:39] <iwj> mdz: We're splitting it between us; there are a couple of things he said would be much quicker for him.
[04:39] <mvo> mdz: bits are implemented already, but bits are missing (caching for example)
[04:39] <iwj> BenC: Quite.  He sounds very keen.
[04:40] <Keybuk> mdz: aren't all time estimates inherently irrational?  </OT>
[04:40] <mdz> har
[04:40] <mdz> iwj: ok, thanks
[04:40] <jbailey> iwj: I didn't look at the xen specs, but the glibc stuff isn't perfect yet.  libc6-xen conflicts libc6-686 and I need to fix that.
[04:40] <mdz> mvo: next
[04:40] <mvo> Specs for edgy:
[04:40] <mvo> Aprroved:
[04:40] <mvo> - cdrom-based-dist-upgrades 		
[04:40] <mvo> - dependency-removal
[04:40] <mvo> - recommends-support 
[04:40] <mvo> - command-not-found-magic
[04:40] <mvo> In review:
[04:40] <mvo> - smartpm 
[04:40] <mvo> - apt-ddtp
[04:40] <mvo> - language-selector-improvements
[04:40] <mvo> - gai-popcon (popcon data for gnome-app-install)
[04:40] <mvo> Drafting:
[04:40] <iwj> jbailey: Nice.  I'm not at that stage yet but that's the kind of thing we're going to trip over.
[04:40] <mvo> - enabling-additional-components  (apt-get handling for universe/multiverse packages open)
[04:40] <mvo> Did:
[04:40] <mvo> - spec work 
[04:40] <mvo> - gnome-app-install work (popcon integration, search result ranking, mime-search)
[04:40] <mvo> - apt work (auto-removal branch, misc stuff)
[04:40] <mvo> - smart work (bugs, commit-log added, looked into auto-removal) 
[04:40] <mvo> - Google Summer of code
[04:40] <mvo> Next week:
[04:40] <iwj> jbailey: ATM I'm doing a hideous thing with dpkg-divert to disable TLS.
[04:40] <mvo> - get missing specs in shape
[04:40] <mvo> - summer vacation next week (from 5 Jul - 20 Jul)
[04:41] <mdz> mvo: the caching in g-a-i seems obvious enough not to need a spec; do you agree?
[04:41] <mdz> mvo: we just shouldn't forget about it
[04:41] <jbailey> iwj: Not possible in edgy, sorry.
[04:41] <Kamion> mvo: enabling-additional-components> s/ubiquity, debian-installer/apt-setup/
[04:41] <mdz> oh, you've done it already
[04:42] <Kamion> mvo: that was disabled by policy, but if mdz's happy with enabling it by default then it's trivial to do ...
[04:42] <mvo> mdz: its not as easy as initally hoped because a simple pickle can't be used - currently g-a-i uses pyxdg to build the menu. but we will not forget
[04:42] <mvo> Kamion: yes, mdz was in the discussion when it came up 
[04:42] <mdz> mvo: language-selector-improvements was targeted for edgy pre-paris, but is in review.  is it doable for edgy given your other work?
[04:42] <Kamion> I guess warning command-line users covers it
[04:42] <Kamion> ok
[04:43] <mvo> mdz: I really hope so, maybe we can find someone from the community, it shouldn't be too hard to do 
[04:43] <mdz> it seems like a lot of per-locale legwork which will be difficult to do quickly
[04:43] <mdz> let's talk about it after
[04:44] <mvo> ok
[04:44] <mdz> mvo: thanks
[04:44] <mdz> ogra: next
[04:44] <ogra> * last-week: merged debians ltsp bzr tree, fixed all breakage and made the package work again. merged gcompris, packaged new gnome-screensaver, started lots of smaller merges
[04:44] <ogra> * list of merges i plan to do this week: atomix, dhcp3, fuse, iptraf, kdeedu, kino, nessus-plugins, pwgen, rss-glx, tuxmath, tuxpaint, xfonts-terminus, xscreensaver (shout if you already work on something there)
[04:44] <ogra> * next-week: finishing merges from above list, starting spec work, SoC review, sorting ltsp branches 
[04:44] <ogra> * specs: 
[04:44] <ogra> - ltsp-dhcpd-autogeneration: (approved, started), thinclient-local-devices (approved, started)
[04:44] <ogra> - student-control-panel-completion: (needs Review, started in dapper already)
[04:44] <ogra> - ltsp-daily-image-tarballs: (in Review, needs DC infrastructure, elmo contacted)
[04:44] <ogra> - ltsp-management-gui: (Braindump, beta available, need to transfer the text to the wiki, pet project of mine will do it in spare time if needed)
[04:44] <ogra> - ltsp-convergence: (this is rather an ongoing process beyond edgy, not a real spec, will track process status via LP)
[04:44] <ogra> - ltsp-netboot-enhancement: (not a spec, rather a bugfix, will track status via LP) 
[04:44] <ogra> The other ltsp related specs are assigned to rodrigo on request
[04:45] <mdz> ogra: which of your remaining unapproved specs are most likely to get finalized by the deadline?
[04:45] <ogra> mdz, student-control-panel
[04:46] <ogra> daily image tarballs as well since jammcq and sbalneav are waiting for it ...
[04:46] <mdz> ogra: ltsp-daily-image-tarballs wasn't on the Paris list, so please target it to edgy so that it's on our radar
[04:46] <ogra> oki
[04:46] <mdz> it'll go on the proposed list
[04:46] <ogra> added
[04:47] <mdz> ltsp-netboot-enhancement is (correctly) marked obsolete
[04:47] <mdz> ogra: ok, thanks
[04:47] <mdz> pitti: next
[04:47] <pitti> apt-get-debug-symbols: created pkg-create-dbgsym package with dh_strip wrapper; mostly ready and working, just fails on a few corner cases; ETA 1 day to extend the test suite for the failing cases and fix them, then upload; then the ball is in the Soyuz field (estimated 15 mandays)
[04:47] <pitti> automated-problem-reports: played with various possibilities to save a stack frame (memory dump, shrinking core dump file) so that we can generate the bt later; not quite there yet; I'll get a nonoptimal solution working very soon, though; I hope I'll manage to get an initial working backend next week; our minimal gnome desktop frontend is easy (~ 1 day)
[04:47] <pitti> gcc-ssp: more testing with various packages, good results; coordinated with fabbione and doko, changing gcc needs to wait for libc fix and bootstrapping on sparc; shouldn't be long any more (2 days?)
[04:47] <pitti> automatic-printer-conf: not started, I do not have a particular urge (nor time) to aim this at edgy
[04:47] <pitti> firewall: pinged Carsten again, he promised to report back and provide something for edgy; no progress so far
[04:47] <pitti> gnome-mount: packaged gnome-mount 0.4 and played with it; policy GUI is not implemented yet, and handling of encrypted devices requires newer (yet unreleased) hal. However, this radically changes infrastructure and currently adds a crackful things; this is still disputed upstream, too; likely needs to be postponed; mdz, can you please remove the edgy flag?
[04:47] <pitti> auto-unmount-notifications: not started yet; not intrusive, so I'll deal with it after I'm done with my archive-wide specs; can someone please review and approve the spec?
[04:47] <pitti> printer-sharing: nothing done so far; either we hack gnome-cups-manager (patch is available and tested already), or we consider using RedHat's printer config tool (python, and a lot of good stuff, but requires quite large code modifications); I do not really have time to care for this right now; community effort would be appreciated, I'll talk with ivoks and Kagou
[04:47] <pitti> general stuff done this week:
[04:48] <pitti>  - caught up with security updates after Paris
[04:48] <pitti>  - merges go full steam ahead
[04:48] <pitti>  - SoC: had some discussion meetings with student, slow progress
[04:48] <pitti> plan for next week:
[04:48] <pitti>  - do SoC mid-term review
[04:48] <pitti>  - complete my merges
[04:48] <pitti>  - some minor security updates
[04:48] <pitti>  - catch up with bug mail (largely neglected since before Paris; I know, I'm a slacker, sorry)
[04:48] <mdz> Keybuk: could you review auto-unmount-notifications?
[04:48] <pitti> (sorry for the size)
[04:48] <fabbione> pitti: my local gcc build is running the test suite as we speak.. theoretically by tomorrow everything should be sorted
[04:48] <Kamion> pitti: I don't remember anything about apt-get-debug-symbols being on the Soyuz radar for edgy when infinity and I sat down with the Soyuz guys in Paris to thrash it out
[04:48] <Keybuk> mdz: yes, sure
[04:48] <mdz> pitti: so your projected edgy list is apt-get-debug-symbols, automated-problem-reports, gcc-ssp, gnome-mount, auto-unmount-notifications
[04:48] <mdz> Keybuk: thanks
[04:49] <pitti> Kamion: hm, Adam and I had a long talk with the soyuz guys; I hope it didn't fall off completely
[04:49] <pitti> mdz: I want to remove the edgy tag for gnome-mount, but I can't
[04:49] <mdz> pitti: seems like it could be a lot, considering your security workload
[04:49] <pitti> mdz: hal is currently too crackful
[04:49] <mdz> pitti: I don't think it's possible to clear that field due to a bug
[04:49] <Kamion> infinity: did I forget it?
[04:50] <pitti> mdz: ssp and auto-umount-nots are easy, and I mostly did the work for debug symbols already
[04:50] <mdz> pitti: you'll need to get a Launchpad DBA to fix it probably
[04:50] <pitti> mdz: so I think my workload should be fine (I think I also need to care for printing stuff *shudder*)
[04:50] <mdz> pitti: automated-problem-reports is fairly big
[04:50] <pitti> yes
[04:50] <mdz> pitti: have you done time estimates?
[04:50] <infinity> Kamion: I believe that we (pitti, me, soyuz team) agreed that if it couldn't squeeze into the edgy timeframe, it would be targetter at edgy+1.
[04:50] <pitti> mdz: yes, should all be in blueprint
[04:51] <Kamion> ok
[04:51] <mdz> hopefully we will find security help for you during edgy; the job posting is up now
[04:51] <pitti> mdz: I estimate 10 days for the basic stuff we agreed on in the spec
[04:51] <pitti> mdz: saw that, thanks *crosses fingers*
[04:51] <mdz> pitti: ok, thanks
[04:51] <mdz> Keybuk wanted to say a few words about MOM I believe
[04:52] <Keybuk> I did
[04:52] <Keybuk> just to make sure everybody knows all about it
[04:52] <Keybuk> we have a new mom this cycle
[04:52] <mdz> we're adopted?
[04:52] <Keybuk> https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html
[04:52] <Keybuk> that's the list of outstanding merges
[04:52] <mdz> fabbione: sorry, forgot that we skipped you
[04:52] <fabbione> mdz: no problem.. i can go after Keybuk 
[04:53] <Keybuk> when doing a merge, you'll notice the output format is different too
[04:53] <Keybuk> rather than the hideous ".dropped" patch and stuff
[04:53] <mdz> (if everyone were present, we would have run out of time for sure, I expect...)
[04:53] <Kamion> what are the colours?
[04:53] <pitti> merges> can be agree that the default claimer is the one noted on the merges page and that we prenotify a person when we do another merge?
[04:53] <Keybuk> you now just get a bzr-style conflict marker or  .UBUNTU/.DEBIAN for binaries
[04:53] <Keybuk> Kamion: package priority
[04:53] <Kamion> oh, explains why mine are all on top
[04:53] <Keybuk> pitti: I think that's a reasonable idea
[04:53] <mdz> Keybuk: when does a package get removed from the outstanding list?
[04:53] <jbailey> Keybuk: Will this be kept running through the whole cycle this time?  It's nice to see what's been updated when doing bug fixing.
[04:53] <Keybuk> mdz: the mom run after the source has been uploaded to Ubuntu
[04:54] <Keybuk> mom is running ~6 hours
[04:54] <Keybuk> I may move that to hourly if all goes well
[04:54] <Keybuk> jbailey: yes!
[04:54] <mdz> Keybuk: I mean, we should prioritize packages which haven't been merged at all yet
[04:54] <ogra> mdz, didnt you miss rodarvus ?
[04:55] <Keybuk> mdz: right, it's a bit tricky to "record" that ... one would have to record a merge being struck from the list ... which if a new Debian upload happened, etc.
[04:55] <Keybuk> I am willing to discuss an implementation though
[04:55] <mdz> ogra: I didn't have a chance to brief him so he doesn't have the usual update, but am talking ot him out of band
[04:55] <mdz> Keybuk: I think we could fake it using dates
[04:55] <Keybuk> any questions or problems with merges, please let me know"!
[04:56] <Keybuk> there's one "known bug" which is sometimes a file that has .UBUNTU/.DEBIAN doesn't show up as "C*" -- but this will be obvious
[04:56] <Keybuk> that's fixed for future merges
[04:56] <mdz> ok
[04:56] <mdz> fabbione: go
[04:56] <fabbione> * sparc: released dapper. Working on testing a gcc fix for sparc64 to fix a FTBFS of glibc that will unleash ssp stuff for pitti and doko.
[04:56] <fabbione> * ubuntu-edgy-cluster: Working on GFS2 userland new deps (openais) and coordinating with upstream for a release date. Addressing some 32/64/endianess problems and getting all our patches upstream to reduce the maintainance load (5/8 are up already).
[04:56] <fabbione> * specs: ubuntu-edgy-cluster splitted and it's pending approval (Mith should have give it the review tag after mdz's give-back), sparc64-port is still drafting (i had to prioritize the toolchain stuff). Internal specs are waiting for final approval.
[04:56] <fabbione> * last week: all of the above and done some work on dapper installer in preparation of a point release to fix install on sbus machines.
[04:56] <fabbione> * next week: finish with gcc, complete the sparc64-port specs, libparted check on sparc for Kamion, dovecot regression from breezy to dapper, possibly merges. My wife looks like a whale and moves as such. Expect me to disappear anytime now.
[04:58] <mdz> fabbione: good luck!
[04:58] <fabbione> mdz: thanks
[04:58] <ogra> yeah
[04:58] <mdz> fabbione: mubuntu?
[04:58] <fabbione> mdz: yes. that's internal one in your inbox
[04:58] <mdz> ok, will have a look
[04:58] <sivang> fabbione: Mazal Tov :-)
[04:59] <fabbione> sivang: if that's a swear word you better run away! :P
[04:59] <mdz> fabbione: do you think you will be able to finalize your specs before you have to go?
[04:59] <fabbione> mdz: i want to finalize them yes.. i have no idea what mother nature decide for my wife
[04:59] <fabbione> it's really too unpredictable to say
[05:00] <mdz> fabbione: ok, let me know if you need help there
[05:00] <mdz> and we're out of time
[05:00] <fabbione> mdz: ok thanks
[05:00] <mdz> anything else, ->-devel
[05:00] <mdz> adjourned, thanks all
[05:00] <fabbione> cya guys
[05:00] <ogra> thanks mdz 
[05:00] <mvo> thanks
[05:00] <sivang> thanks
[05:00] <doko> thanks
[05:01] <BenC> bye all
[05:02] <pitti> thanks all
[05:03] <zul> toodles
[05:06] <heno> tortoise_: can you join #ubuntu-accessibility ?
[06:11] <GNAM> @schedule rome
[06:11] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 04 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Jul 15:00: Kubuntu
[06:17] <profoX`> @schedule Brussels
[06:17] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Brussels: 04 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 05 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 06 Jul 22:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 12 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 04:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 17 Jul 15:00: Kubuntu
[11:33] <Seveas> @config channel plugins.webcal.filter #ubuntu-meeting
[11:34] <Seveas> @reload Webcal
[11:34] <Seveas> @topic