[12:07] <sivang> hmm, wiki takes slow to commit
[12:07] <mdz> Keybuk: not THAT calendar
[12:07] <Keybuk> mdz: in Debian or Ubuntu
[12:07] <Keybuk> mdz: mmm, ascii art of naked people
[12:08] <pitti> \00/  :)
[12:08] <Keybuk> sivang: LP is being slow doing username lookups for me atm
[12:09] <sivang> Keybuk: I wonder if the moin/LP-Integ. bits are slowing the wiki due to LP being slow. too many folks getting notified on a wiki page change also seems to do that
[12:10] <ajmitch> morning all
[12:10] <pitti> hi ajmitch 
[12:10] <mdz> doh, I forgot -v
[12:10] <Keybuk> mdz: ../merge-buildpackage is your friend
[12:10] <mdz> I should add that check to my script
[12:11] <Keybuk> (if you use grab-merge)
[12:11] <ajmitch> mm lovely, I see I last touched e2fsprogs
[12:11] <LaserJock> I saw that too :-)
[12:11] <pitti> Keybuk: btw, can you fix grab-merge to use 'tar tz < $TARBALL'?
[12:11] <pitti> Keybuk: erm, tar xz of course
[12:11] <Keybuk> pitti: any particular reason?
[12:11] <pitti> Keybuk: 'tar xf $TARBALL' fails for epochs
[12:11] <sivang> hmm, ajmitch getting up means I need to go to sleep, soon :)
[12:11] <pitti> Keybuk: it tries to access an rsh host, or so
[12:12] <Keybuk> pitti: epochs shouldn't have been in the tarball filename <g>  I fixed that bug instead
[12:12] <mdz> I thought that was why we didn't put epochs in filenames
[12:12] <mdz> of course, tar does suck for breaking
[12:12] <pitti> Keybuk: I encountered it this morning; ok, if it's fixed now that way, thanks
[12:12] <Keybuk> pitti: yeah, I fixed it around lunchtime
[12:12] <ajmitch> sivang: it's not like I ever get up at the same time twice :)
[12:12] <Keybuk> or, at least, when any normal person would have got lunch
[12:12] <sivang> ajmitch: still, it suggest that I may start to cross time zones..:)
[12:12] <mdz> Keybuk: where are those?  perhaps REPORT should mention them
[12:13] <Keybuk> mdz: where are which?
[12:13] <mdz> Keybuk: merge-buildpackage, grab-merge
[12:13] <Keybuk> grab-merge?
[12:13] <Keybuk> it's in the top-level of merges.ubuntu.com
[12:13] <mdz> I need to start attaching sequence numbers to my IRC replies
[12:13] <Keybuk> https://merges.ubuntu.com/grab-merge.sh
[12:13] <Keybuk> and mentioned in the blurb at the top of that page
[12:13] <ajmitch> sivang: besides, I'm not in NZ at the moment :)
[12:13] <Keybuk> it generates merge-buildpackage for you :)
[12:13] <mdz> oh, I've been looking at main.html
[12:14] <sivang> ajmitch: ah, in EU-like timezone?
[12:14] <Keybuk> mdz: is just a script to parse REPORT, download all the files, and makes a couple of "useful" scripts that call dpkg-genchanges or dpkg-buildpackage with the right combination of -S/-sa/-v
[12:14] <ajmitch> sivang: no, just australia
[12:15] <mdz> Keybuk: why does it need to clobber cwd?
[12:15] <Keybuk> mdz: it doesn't _need_ to I guess, it'd just clobber REPORT and merge-* otherwise
[12:15] <Keybuk> modify it to taste :p
[12:16] <Keybuk> I always do merges in their own directory, just to keep things clean
[12:16] <mdz> Keybuk: or it could drop everything into a subdir
[12:18] <mdz> Keybuk: didn't we determine in Paris that syncs could be scripted to require less manual fiddling?
[12:18] <mdz> has that script been written yet?
[12:18] <mdz> Keybuk: if you're in sync mode, hostname can go too
[12:21] <Keybuk> "scripted" ?
[12:21] <Keybuk> I don't remember being in that conversation
[12:21] <Keybuk> (which is not to say that I wasn't, of course ... there were a *lot* of conversations :p)
[12:22] <Keybuk> tbh, I don't really notice the manual fiddling
[12:22] <Keybuk> but yes, we could have something automatically tip syncs into incoming at some appropriate point
[12:30] <pitti> good night
[12:30] <Keybuk>                 if test -e ./configure.ac || test -e ./configure.in ; then cd . && `which autoconf1.7 || which autoconf` ; fi ; \
[12:31] <Keybuk> autoconf 1.7 eh? :p
[12:31] <Keybuk> s/conf/make/ I feel
[12:32] <mdz> Keybuk: you don't notice copying the files around across sudo?
[12:33] <mdz> it's a sequence of like 5 commands where it should be one
[12:33] <Keybuk> copying the files around?
[12:34] <Keybuk> oh, right
[12:34] <Keybuk> no
[12:34] <Keybuk> I go into screen 1, press the up arrow, change the name of the user and source package and press enter
[12:34] <Keybuk> then I go into screen 2, press the up arrow, and press enter
[12:34] <Keybuk> :p
[12:35] <Keybuk> it got easier when we made ~lp_archive/syncs writable by lp_queue
[12:35] <Keybuk> so now it can actually move the buggers out, rather than copy and have to delete later
[12:36] <mdz> printing is busted for me
[12:36] <Keybuk> I'm more vaguely concerned that those wacky Soyuz guys want to make things EVEN BETTER!
[12:36] <mdz> smells like an fd being inherited somewhere
[12:36] <mdz> in the cups pipeline of DOOM
[12:36] <Keybuk> so instead of just "sync-source foo", we have to type "sync debian/unstable/foo/1.0-1 edgy" etc.
[12:39] <mdz> ha...nope, it's just a permissions problem on /dev/usblp0
[12:40] <mdz> Keybuk: any guesses why I ended up with a root:root /dev/usblp0 when udev.permissions says root:lp?
[12:41] <Keybuk> bug
[12:41] <Keybuk> needs a " in there :p
[12:41] <Keybuk> well, in 40-permissions.rules
[12:42] <Keybuk> which proves nobody ever tried printing anything in dapper
[12:42] <Keybuk> we inherited that one from upstream
[12:42] <Keybuk> and I only found out about it the other day
[12:42] <mdz> needs one where?
[12:42] <mdz> SUBSYSTEM=="usb", KERNEL="lp[0-9] *",    GROUP="lp"
[12:42] <Keybuk> Typo in permissions.rules KERNEL==lp not =="lp
[12:43] <mdz> in what version of udev?  I don't see that in edgy
[12:43] <Keybuk> oh, hmm
[12:43] <Keybuk> edgy needs == there
[12:43] <mdz> is udev.permissions obsolete?  I still have it around
[12:43] <Keybuk> yeah, very obsolete
[12:43] <mdz> it's ignored?
[12:43] <Keybuk> totally ignored
[12:44] <Keybuk> since probably hoary
[12:46] <mdz> Keybuk: you need a bug for the edgy KERNEL=" issue?
[12:46] <sivang> hrm
[12:46] <Keybuk> mdz: there is one I believe
[12:46] <sivang> is there a way to clean up partially pushed branch from b.l.n ?
[12:46] <sivang> bzr: ERROR: File exists: '/~ubuntu-dev/hubackup/ubuntu': mkdir failed: unable to mkdir
[12:47] <Keybuk> mdz: can't see it though, so file if you like
[12:47] <mdz> don't see one
[12:47] <mdz> will do
[12:47] <sivang> (I aborted the first one, and created a new branch clean and without too many commits over the last development cycle)
[12:47] <Keybuk> oh, it was in bug #50447
[12:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 50447 in udev "For SCSI CD/DVD writer, scsi_generic device needs to be owned by cdrom" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/50447
[12:47] <Keybuk> though the patch is wrong, obviosuly
[12:48] <mdz> no bug then?
[12:49] <tseng> mdz: i do but unfortunately i havent had a chance yet to get a livecd built with all the bits and hacked on it
[12:49] <tseng> md	to have any idea what is feasible
[12:51] <sivang> anyway, good night all
[12:51] <tseng> there is a beagle bof tommorow, incidentally
[01:00] <tseng> cant talk now sorry, the lag is inasne
[01:03] <Keybuk> ya know, I swear dholbach has had an attack of the shiny while at guadec
[01:09] <Keybuk> jesus fucking christ
[01:09] <Keybuk> seriously, nobody has bothered reading the licences for these files
[01:10] <Fujitsu> Which files?
[01:11] <Keybuk> telepathy, cohoba, and friends
[01:15] <shackan> what's wrong there?
[01:16] <Fujitsu> What does libtelepathy do, anyway?
[01:16] <infinity> Whatever you want it to.
[01:18] <Chipzz> "what the user wants" ;P
[01:18] <Chipzz> which is what every fscking application should do
[01:18] <Chipzz> obviously
[01:18] <Chipzz> ;)
[01:18] <mjr> "The aim of this project is to provide a D-Bus-based framework that unifies all forms of real time conversations, including, but not limited to, instant messaging, IRC and voice and video over IP."
[01:27] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[01:33] <Keybuk> Fujitsu: it's the Nokia 770 v2 chat thing
[01:33] <Fujitsu> OK.
[01:34] <mjr> "it's not just for Nokia anymore" - it's a freedesktop.org project
[01:35] <Keybuk> yeah, the interchangeable robs always intended it to be a general framework
[01:39] <bddebian> Heya
[01:41] <shackan> lol for 'the interchangeable robs'
[03:38] <gnomefreak> is it possible to pull libeel2-2 update or ateast hold back?
[03:38] <gnomefreak> s/atreast/atleast
[03:41] <Fujitsu> You can lock the version on your system...
[03:41] <Fujitsu> Is it killing nautilus deps as the bug says?
[03:43] <gnomefreak> yes its remove nautilus
[03:44] <gnomefreak> i tried pinning it but i guess the wiki is wrong because it didnt work
[03:46] <Fujitsu> Pinning won't do it.
[03:46] <Fujitsu> You need to lock it...
[04:13] <shenki> "Ubuntu, an ancient African word meaning cant install Debian"
[04:13] <shenki> opps, wrong channel, sorry
[05:50] <shaya> is it documented anywhere that one needs to change their grub from hdx to sdx w/ an pata drive?
[05:50] <shaya> was wondering why my 2.6.17 edgy box was hanging on boot w/ new kernel
[05:58] <Fujitsu> They fully switched to using libata?
[06:05] <shaya> it seems that way
[06:05] <shaya> just upgraded to 2.6.17, rebooted and it just hung there
[06:06] <Fujitsu> I saw your bug.
[06:06] <shaya> went to "recovery mode" noticed "hey, why is it detecting it as sda!"
[06:06] <shaya> rebooted, went to grub changed it and its all good now
[06:06] <shaya> anyways, time for me to sleep
[06:06] <shaya> you australians can work through the night :)
[07:10] <pitti> Good morning
[07:10] <Hobbsee> hey pitti!
[07:10] <Hobbsee> this irssi is actually *readable* today, unlike the one off the live cd!  :P
[07:11] <ajmitch> morning pitti 
[07:11] <Hobbsee> hi ajmitch 
[07:12] <ajmitch> hi
[07:12] <pitti> hello Hobbsee, hi ajmitch 
[07:52] <fabbione> morning
[07:53] <ajmitch> morning fabbione 
[07:55] <Hobbsee> hey fabbione 
[07:57] <fabbione> infinity: how is gcc/glibc doing?
[08:40] <fabbione> lol
[08:43] <Fujitsu> Heheh
[08:44] <Hobbsee> hehe
[08:45] <pitti> Hobbsee: bz2ify?
[08:45] <Hobbsee> pitti: compress as a tar.bz2?
[08:46] <pitti> and that increases the tarball size?
[08:46] <Hobbsee> i think so - i didnt think my home directory was that big!
[09:00] <mman> hi all
[09:14] <slomo> infinity: please give-back nautilus everywhere... thanks :)
[09:49] <pitti> slomo: hm, did you already merge sdl? (I hope I didn't miss it from -changes)
[10:08] <Pharaoh_Atem> umm, noticed that the standard kernel in breezy does not have a kernel header or source package on the apt repository
[10:09] <Fujitsu> Pharaoh_Atem, you sure?
[10:09] <Pharaoh_Atem> yep
[10:09] <Pharaoh_Atem> positive
[10:09] <StevenK> What did you search for?
[10:09] <Fujitsu> Try linux-source... It has to be there.
[10:09] <Pharaoh_Atem> kernel-headers-2.6.12-9
[10:09] <Fujitsu> No.
[10:10] <Fujitsu> linux-headers.
[10:10] <Fujitsu> Not kernel-headers.
[10:10] <Pharaoh_Atem> why are there packages that are named kernel headers then?
[10:10] <Amaranth> debian
[10:10] <imbrandon_> linux-headers-`uname -r`
[10:11] <Amaranth> although i believe debian switched to linux-* too since they have freebsd and such kernels as well
[10:12] <Pharaoh_Atem> also, it seems the gcc packages retrieve the wrong headers
[10:12] <Pharaoh_Atem> when using apt
[10:13] <Amaranth> you mean build-essential?
[10:14] <thom> this is so not the right channel
[10:14] <Amaranth> thom: Yeah.
[10:14] <Amaranth> Pharaoh_Atem: Please file a bug in launchpad.
[10:14] <StevenK> Or ask your question in #ubuntu
[10:15] <Pharaoh_Atem> ill file a bugreport
[10:15] <Pharaoh_Atem> bye
[10:15] <StevenK> File a bug so we can close it quickly.
[10:15] <imbrandon_> heh
[10:16] <sivang> morning
[10:17] <jsgotangco> sivang!
[10:17] <sivang> yo jsgotangco , what's cracking?
[10:17] <sivang> nice
[10:18] <jsgotangco> does homuserbackup have a bzr mainline?
[10:19] <sivang> jsgotangco: yes, it does , I will also follow scott's instructions to make it commitable by universe uploaders, as soon as I sort the partially pushed branch issue on b.l.n
[10:20] <jsgotangco> ok please ping me when its avaialble for branching =)
[10:22] <sivang> jsgotangco: for the mean while, you can check out https://launchpad.net/people/sivan/+branch/hubackup/devel-main
[10:22] <jsgotangco> thanks
[10:22] <sivang> jsgotangco: this should work as the bzr url to branch off of - http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sivan/hubackup/devel-main
[10:27] <elmo> *.ubuntu.com, *.launchpad.net and anything else in the Canonical Data Centre is going away for 5 mintes
[10:29] <Fujitsu> :(
[10:30] <mvo> fabbione: in what way broke libselinux-dev devmapper? (I'm doing the merge right now). should it still be disabled?
[10:31] <neuralis> elmo: gah, in the middle of a server dist-upgrade.
[10:31] <jsgotangco> doh! im branching
[10:31] <pitti> hi neuralis 
[10:31] <Fujitsu> elmo, any particularly good reason?
[10:31] <pitti> neuralis: 'Use the mirror, Luke' :)
[10:31] <Fujitsu> Or do they just want to have a snooze? :P
[10:32] <neuralis> hey pitti
[10:33] <neuralis> pitti: yeah, i'm switching to a mirror now, i was just amused at the timing
[10:33] <azeem> Fujitsu: let's assume there is a good reason
[10:34] <Fujitsu> azeem, I'd assume so.
[10:34] <neuralis> three cheers for a 100mbit/s link.
[10:35] <Fujitsu> Oooh. Where?
[10:37] <neuralis> Fujitsu: .edu
[10:37] <Fujitsu> AH.
[10:42] <neuralis> pitti: no reply from spender after that last e-mail i sent (you were cc'd)
[10:42] <neuralis> pitti: i'll wait a couple more days, and then poke him again
[10:42] <pitti> neuralis: yep, I read it; TBH, I don't have much hope
[10:42] <neuralis> yeah, same here
[10:42] <neuralis> pitti: i have a long flight tomorrow, and will be looking closely at the grsec patch. 
[10:43] <neuralis> it might be possible to extract the invariants we're interested in without his cooperation, and still not make it a support burden for us.
[10:43] <neuralis> i'll finish the spec and include my findings.
[10:43] <pitti> neuralis: yes, as long as it's a small and contained patch, it should be no problem
[10:44] <neuralis> pitti: yeah, that's what i intend to look at.
[10:44] <pitti> neuralis: the /tmp symlink race protection is an excellent example for this
[10:45] <neuralis> honestly, there should be a *ton* of useful things that we can extract and that doesn't change much between kernel versions
[10:45] <neuralis> i'll verify that that's the case, but i expect a bunch of the /proc strengthening, extended jails, tcp/ip stack features, aslr, capability stuff, etc to all be relatively invariant
[11:19] <\sh> ogra: ping
[11:20] <sivang> hey \sh 
[11:20] <\sh> moins sivang
[11:29] <elmo> sorry, but once again *.ubuntu.com, *.launchpad.net and anything else in the Canonical Data Centre is going away for 5 mintes
[11:45] <doko> Kamion: how to go on with promotions of packages, which already have been in main (like db4.4)?
[11:51] <pitti> Kamion: (db4.4 is fine for me, as long as we schedule a large-scale transition to it)
[11:52] <Kamion> doko: promoted
[11:53] <doko> Kamion: thanks; pitti: it's just that the db module is broken on hppa with db4.3. maybe we should setup a document on UVF which library versions we want to target.
[11:53] <pitti> doko: oh, 4.4 will work?
[11:54] <doko> pitti: on hppa for the dbm module, yes
[11:54] <pitti> doko: if we get it into main, then we should transition everything to 4.4, apart from the packages which use on-disk transition logs
[11:54] <pitti> doko: but that's something for later
[11:55] <doko> pitti: do we have a list of packages, where we know that transition logs are used?
[11:55] <Kamion> YM transaction logs?
[11:55] <doko> Kamion: do you want to have an explicit main inclusion report for python-central/python-support?
[11:56] <pitti> Kamion: erm, yes, sorry
[11:57] <doko> who should be asked about dapper-proposed-updates?
[11:57] <Kamion> doko: yes please
[11:57] <Kamion> (central/support)
[11:58] <Kamion> I'll do pcmcia-cs as well - they really need to go together
[12:01] <Znarl> Is there a good doc on how to set up a package repository, focussed on Ubuntu, kind of current, that goes into signing Release files?
[12:01] <ogra> mvo, hey
[12:03] <ogra> mvo, why did you request a sync for atomix ?
[12:04] <mvo> ogra: hi, I looked over our changes and (what I could see) it was only a new upstream version that was different from the debian version
[12:04] <mvo> ogra: have I overlooked something?
[12:04] <NekoXP> meow
[12:04] <Kamion> doko: proposed-updates> what about it?
[12:05] <doko> Kamion: we discussed that we need a staging area before uploading things to dapper-updates
[12:06] <ogra> mvo, we'll loose 7 language translations and a change i still try to find out what dholbach meant with
[12:07] <pitti> ogra: atomix doesn't use gettext?
[12:07] <mvo> ogra: sure? the language translations where done upstream according to the changelog
[12:07] <ogra> mvo, thats why i posted my list of merges i plan in the meeting yesterday
[12:07] <ogra> well, if you think it fits, i'm fine, take it
[12:07] <mvo> ogra: sorry, if you feel strong about it I will close my sync request
[12:07] <ogra> mvo, i dont
[12:08] <ogra> its just odd to discover after half an hour of fiddling that someone requested a sync already
[12:08] <mvo> ogra: ok. it would be good to have a "I claim this" system :/
[12:08] <ogra> mvo, yes, thats why i made the list yesterday
[12:08] <mvo> ogra: and I overlooked it :(
[12:08] <ogra> no problem :)
[12:09] <pitti> mvo: don't have enough merges? :)
[12:09] <ogra> but do you have any idea what dholbach meant with "  - Include formulas of all compounds in the interface" ?
[12:09] <mvo> pitti: well, it was dholbachs but he is in spain ... so I thought
[12:09] <ogra> and   * Resynchronized with Debian. (Ubuntu: #21107)
[12:09] <mvo> ogra: I'm pretty sure that this is quoted from the upstream changelog
[12:09] <ogra> 21107 is an ati driver bug
[12:09] <mvo> haha
[12:10] <ogra> he must have been very tired :)
[12:11] <Kamion> doko: AFAIK dapper-proposed exists and works saving perhaps for buildd chroots
[12:11] <doko> Kamion: will check that
[12:12] <doko> Kamion: are binutils binaries still in NEW?
[12:12] <Kamion> doko: if the buildd chroots don't work, that will have to wait until Adam gets back from vacation, but it should be possible to try a source upload
[12:12] <Kamion> doko: no, I did those yesterday
[12:12] <Kamion> the only things in NEW are some exiv2 binaries which I'll process in a moment, and that zope stuff
[12:13] <mvo> ogra: yeah. sorry again for getting in your way 
[12:13] <ogra> mvo, dont worry, i saw the bug early enough
[12:14] <ogra> we should probably just all mail a list of packages we plan to work on to -devel
[12:14] <mvo> ogra: the "funny" thing is that I wrote a mail to daniel telling him that I requested the sync
[12:14] <doko> Kamion: it looks like we can get rid of the python2.3 based zope stuff in debian as well, so it's not worth to process these now
[12:14] <pitti> Mithrandir: can I cowtrade the mailman merge with you? You might want to just apply the fixes in Debian and sync
[12:14] <Kamion> doko: I need to do something with them. Should I remove and sync-blacklist those packages?
[12:14] <pitti> ogra: hm, too clumsy (mail to -devel)
[12:15] <mvo> ogra: yeah, we need to discuss this. my favorite workflow would be to have a button on the main.html page with "I claim this" - but I guess that would be a bit overkill to implement :)
[12:15] <ogra> mvo, well, its an edubuntu package :)
[12:15] <pitti> ogra: sticking to the names on main.html and IRC pings should work fine, or not?
[12:15] <mvo> ogra: *cough* ... ok
[12:15] <pitti> ok, this case showed that it doesn't...
[12:15] <doko> Kamion: please do what it less work for you
[12:15] <Kamion> doko: the list is zope-cmf1.4, zope-portaltransport, zope-zattachmentattribute, zope-zaaplugins, zope-i18nlayer, zope-i18nfolder, zope-cmfactionicons
[12:15] <Kamion> can you confirm that those are all going to go away?
[12:16] <doko> Kamion: have to look. zope-cmf1.4 yes, don't know of the others
[12:16] <pitti> Mithrandir: I offer to do flac and gnuchess in return
[12:16] <Mithrandir> pitti: they're already done.
[12:16] <pitti> oh, ok
[12:17] <pitti> Mithrandir: 'they' includes mailman?
[12:17] <mvo> ogra: I will keep away from edubuntu merges from now on, promissed :)
[12:17] <Mithrandir> pitti: nope, flac and gnuchess are done.  Haven't looked at mailman yet.
[12:18] <ogra> mvo, not all packages on my list are edubuntu specific :P
[12:18] <ogra> but thanks :)
[12:19] <ogra> mvo, dhcp3, fuse, iptraf, kdeedu, kino, nessus-plugins, pwgen, rss-glx, tuxmath, tuxpaint, xfonts-terminus, xscreensaver
[12:19] <ogra> while pitti already claimed dhcp3 :)
[12:19] <pitti> well,I asked ;)
[12:19] <mvo> ogra: thanks! I was about to merge iptraf, but it is yours now
[12:19] <ogra> and is said ok, didnt i ? :)
[12:19] <ogra> s/is/i/
[12:20] <pitti> ogra: ok, fine for me
[12:20] <ogra> mvo, only if you didnt start on it yet
[12:20] <ogra> lets not do work twice
[12:20] <mvo> ogra: no, I have not :)
[12:20] <ogra> ok
[12:28] <NekoXP> so if I go into synaptic and completely remove bluez-pcmcia-support, pcmcia-cs and pcmciautils, it says it will remove ubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-minimal but that WON'T trash my system, right? I am not going to lose 1000 packages or any real files apart from the pcmcia ones?
[12:29] <Kamion> that's correct, although you'll lose neat upgrade handling when we add new packages to minimal and desktop
[12:29] <Kamion> I'm curious though - why are you desperate to remove those packages?
[12:30] <NekoXP> I'm not desperate to remove them, but they do take up like 2MB of disk space (along with a lot of other stuff I want to remove) and we're trying to fit a preinstall image (oem) onto a CD
[12:30] <NekoXP> our hardware doesn't have a pcmcia slot.. so it's pretty pointless having it just for it to go FAILED on the boot screen
[12:30] <Kamion> pcmciautils is tiny
[12:30] <Kamion> but ok
[12:31] <Kamion> do you expect that users of these images will ever want to upgrade?
[12:32] <NekoXP> upgrade to a pcmcia slot?
[12:32] <NekoXP> :D
[12:32] <Kamion> no, upgrade to a later version of Ubuntu (or whatever)
[12:32] <NekoXP> yeah I suspect they will, but they won't use pcmcia utils, or vga graphics driver (or 5 others), or powerbook buttons daemon or the mac and pmac-fdisk tools (it will fuck their disk)
[12:33] <NekoXP> even after the upgrade
[12:33] <NekoXP> it's just wasting space, making the boot take longer (it hangs at pcmcia startup for 3 seconds..), blah blah.
[12:33] <Kamion> basically once you remove ubuntu-minimal upgrades are unsupported
[12:33] <Kamion> if you don't mind that, then fine
[12:33] <Kamion> note that you can also just hack the init script ...
[12:33] <NekoXP> this is what I am trying to avoid. It needs to be a fairly working usable system...
[12:34] <NekoXP> yeah and the next time someone gets a pcmcia utils update from Synaptic the hack is removed.
[12:34] <Kamion> stick "exit 0" at the top of the init script, no more hang
[12:34] <Kamion> incorrect
[12:34] <Kamion> init scripts are conffiles
[12:34] <Kamion> they may have to resolve file conflicts though
[12:34] <Kamion> but by default, it keeps the current version
[12:34] <Kamion> IIRC synaptic does that unless you open the terminal widget
[12:35] <NekoXP> mrf...
[12:35] <Kamion> also I believe that's the pcmcia-cs init script hanging, not pcmciautils
[12:35] <Kamion> though you'd have to try it to be sure - but pcmciautils is pretty small and harmless
[12:36] <NekoXP> well remove one and it removes the other
[12:36] <Kamion> that's not true - pcmciautils does not depend on pcmcia-cs
[12:36] <NekoXP> this whole thing is a big fat mess if you ask me :] 
[12:36] <Kamion> you can remove pcmcia-cs without removing pcmciautils
[12:36] <NekoXP> okay
[12:36] <NekoXP> but it's still gonna nuke ubuntu-minimal
[12:36] <Kamion> no, it's not
[12:36] <Kamion> pcmcia-cs is not in minimal
[12:37] <NekoXP> or ubuntu-desktop then
[12:37] <Kamion> it will only remove ubuntu-desktop
[12:37] <Kamion> upgrades are still sort of unsupported if you remove ubuntu-desktop but less hideous-run-away unsupported
[12:37] <NekoXP> yeah but... I don't want that
[12:38] <glatzor> ping mdz
[12:38] <Kamion> well, uh, you can't have it both ways :)
[12:38] <NekoXP> I don't see why I should have all these drivers and services I can guarantee will never ever be supported hardware on this platform, just because you want a generic do-all thingy for everyone. I know laptop support is nice and so on, but this isn't a laptop. How come you can't remove pcmcia, or individual X graphics drivers, or even a disk tool (that is fundamentally broken) without nuking the upgrade process?
[12:38] <Kamion> if you remove ubuntu-desktop, then what we ask is that you shoulder the support burden for upgraders
[12:38] <NekoXP> I would rather mac-fdisk was not installed on the system simply because people think they can use it if it's there and it *will* completely nuke our partition table
[12:39] <Kamion> we'd prefer not to have pcmcia-cs in desktop, and it will be gone in edgy
[12:39] <NekoXP> the same for pbbuttonsd
[12:40] <Kamion> it's unfortunate that powerpc has multiple incompatible subarchitectures, but I think the right answer is to make *-fdisk notice that it can't handle the partition table and bomb out rather than trashing it
[12:41] <NekoXP> like that'll ever happen
[12:41] <ogra> file a bug and it will at some point :)
[12:41] <NekoXP> it takes about 2 years to get a 1 line patch into parted
[12:41] <Kamion> *-fdisk != parted
[12:42] <NekoXP> we still don't have pegasos support in the kernel properly because the ubuntu kernel guys aren't exactly the most on-the-ball bunch in the world
[12:42] <Kamion> is this pegasos?
[12:42] <NekoXP> yes :D
[12:42] <Kamion> due respect, but the conduit for many pegasos patches doesn't do the platform any favours
[12:42] <NekoXP> sven?
[12:42] <Kamion> though I'm sure you've only heard one side of that argument
[12:42] <Kamion> yes
[12:42] <NekoXP> nah I saw both sides
[12:42] <NekoXP> I think both are pretty childish
[12:43] <Kamion> most people don't find getting patches into parted so incredibly difficult
[12:43] <NekoXP> well Sven is the debian maintainer for parted
[12:43] <ogra> he's not for ubuntu though :)
[12:43] <Kamion> not since mid-2005 according to the changelog
[12:43] <NekoXP> he submitted a patch... and it finally got rolled in something like 18 months later. Then it took longer for Debian to pick the package up into a decent tree
[12:43] <NekoXP> well I dunno
[12:44] <Kamion> Otavio has been doing it since then, mostly
[12:44] <NekoXP> this was a long time ago. He drops projects when people reject his patches or sit on them for 18 months for no reason.
[12:44] <Kamion> also, that was while parted upstream was pretty dormant, and it's active now
[12:44] <NekoXP> it still sucks
[12:45] <Kamion> anyway, I killfile Sven because I can't deal with him without wanting to smash things, so let's not continue this
[12:45] <Kamion> otherwise I will want to smash things again
[12:45] <NekoXP> remove pcmcia-cs -> remove bluez-pcmcia-support -> remove ubuntu-desktop
[12:45] <NekoXP> dependency hell
[12:45] <Kamion> I'm happy to take pegasos patches from somebody I can deal with reasonably :)
[12:45] <NekoXP> it'll probably end up being me knowing my luck
[12:45] <Kamion> yes, that's correct, in dapper. if you don't want all of the Ubuntu desktop, then removing ubuntu-desktop is correct
[12:46] <NekoXP> after I prise them from Nico's cold dead hands
[12:46] <Kamion> I have a Pegasos here; once I get round to buying a KVM switch I can power it up again and make *-fdisk not be so destructive easily enough
[12:47] <Kamion> I'd appreciate a bug to remind me though
[12:48] <NekoXP> who are you again?
[12:48] <Kamion> Colin Watson
[12:48] <NekoXP> oh ho
[12:48] <Kamion> (/whois)
[12:48] <NekoXP> yeah I don't like whois it's kind of rude. I could ctcp version you too.
[12:48] <NekoXP> it's like pulling down your pants to read the nametag
[12:48] <Kamion> um /whois is invisible to the whoisee
[12:48] <NekoXP> hey you're colin! nice boxers!!
[12:48] <Kamion> it just queries the server
[12:48] <NekoXP> it's still obnoxious :)
[12:49] <NekoXP> whatever happened to conversation
[12:49] <_ion> nekoxp: You're joking, right? :-)
[12:49] <NekoXP> ur joking lol I fink mebbe ok.. ye
[12:50] <NekoXP> okay I guess exit 0; is the best way then
[12:50] <NekoXP> I dunno how I am gonna clean space off, I can get rid of like the x.org drivers and that's it
[12:50] <NekoXP> safely..
[12:51] <Kamion> if you wanted to avoid removing *-fdisk, you could dpkg-divert them instead
[12:51] <Kamion> how much space have you got, total?
[12:51] <NekoXP> about 640MB
[12:51] <Kamion> and what way are you compressing the image on the CD?
[12:51] <NekoXP> the first image I made from a clean OEM install was 670MB. That fits but it's a bit tight since I still need to brand the desktop and who knows what oem-blah does
[12:51] <NekoXP> partimage image, gzip
[12:52] <Kamion> might be worth considering squashfs; that's what we use on our live CDs
[12:52] <Kamion> it saved a lot of space when we switched to it
[12:52] <NekoXP> well we want to partimage it onto a disk, that's the point
[12:52] <Kamion> oh, cp -a won't do? ok
[12:52] <NekoXP> get rid of the dumb "it has 4 Linuxes on it" installation thing
[12:53] <NekoXP> I dunno if cp -a would work.. from squashfs? doesn't it trash permissions and timestamps and stuff?
[12:53] <Kamion> it's essentially what we do for our live installer ...
[12:53] <ogra> NekoXP, no way to use 700MB media ? 
[12:53] <NekoXP> every time I boot a livecd all the files are set to today's date
[12:53] <Kamion> although as it happens I do it by hand in python instead to get better progress reporting, but shrug
[12:53] <Kamion> you know, to be honest I haven't noticed
[12:53] <NekoXP> ogra, I am using 700MB media but we need a 16mb initrd kernel, partimage, plus the support partition, tools etc. to fit on the same disk
[12:54] <ogra> ouch, ok
[12:54] <NekoXP> it's a "boot it and it installs Ubuntu and then reboots in 5 minutes flat" CD
[12:54] <Kamion> I'm certain it doesn't trash permissions though, maybe timestamps
[12:54] <Eons> hello there
[12:54] <Eons> will Edgy have pycairo 1.1 and above?
[12:54] <NekoXP> GNNN
[12:54] <NekoXP> synaptics touchpad driver part of the desktop
[12:56] <Kamion> the chief problem is that detecting that in such a way that it gets installed on just the correct machines both on fresh installs and on upgrades is not at all easy
[12:57] <slomo> pitti: not yet... i was a bit too tired yesterday... so if you want to do it do it... otherwise i'll try to find some time for it later :)
[12:57] <Kamion> hopefully in the future though we'll be able to let you say "I want to keep ubuntu-desktop installed except for these packages"
[12:57] <pitti> slomo: I'll leave it alone for now
[12:57] <Kamion> probably in the brave new smartpm world
[12:58] <slomo> pitti: is it an important merge? i think it would also make sense to wait for directfb to enter main (which needs to happen for gtk anyway) and don't drop the udeb that is created for libsdl with directfb support then... or what do you think?
[12:58] <ogra> NekoXP, you are working off a ubuntu iso ? if so, did you remove build-essential and its revers deps ? 
[12:58] <pitti> slomo: sounds sensible
[12:58] <ogra> *reverse
[12:58] <NekoXP> ogra, no?
[12:58] <NekoXP> I used umm... powerpc-alternative 6.06
[12:58] <ogra> ugh, what has ridden me to claim the fuse merge ... 
[12:59] <ogra> NekoXP, dropping gcc and linux-heareds etc should gain a bit of space
[12:59] <NekoXP> it's installed on the disk now in oem mode I am making changes and then running the oem-config script thing and making an image...
[12:59] <slomo> pitti: ok, i'll wait then :) this will make our delta much smaller
[12:59] <NekoXP> ogra, but it's a developer workstation :D
[12:59] <Kamion> ogra: those aren't installed by default
[12:59] <NekoXP> if it has no gcc they watsted $800
[12:59] <ogra> ok
[01:00] <ogra> thats bad then ... no gain here 
[01:00] <NekoXP> or at least, they didn't, but they have to download it
[01:00] <NekoXP> it seems installed here anyway, 3.4.5 or so?
[01:00] <jsgotangco> have a good friday all
[01:00] <jsgotangco> brb
[01:00] <NekoXP> by fefault
[01:00] <ogra> ciao jsgotangco 
[01:00] <NekoXP> anyway I gotta go get lunchypoos
[01:06] <NekoXP> doesn't apt/dpkg support hard dependencies and soft dependencies?
[01:06] <Mithrandir> it does.
[01:07] <NekoXP> so is ubuntu-desktop depending on pcmcia-cs a hard or soft dependency?
[01:07] <Mithrandir> ubuntu-desktop only has depends, not recommends or suggests.
[01:07] <zul> mvo: ping
[01:08] <Kamion> apt/dpkg supports recommends/suggests but they don't have the upgrade behaviour we want
[01:08] <Kamion> suggests is only shown informationally by certain frontends
[01:08] <Kamion> recommends may make sense to use in the future
[01:10] <mvo> zul: pong
[01:10] <zul> mvo: did you have a look at the debdiff for grub?
[01:10] <mvo> zul: sorry, not yet. I do this in a couple of minutes, I need to finish some other task first
[01:11] <zul> sure...im heading off to work but ill be available when i get there
[01:11] <mvo> zul: great, thanks!
[01:18] <sivang> re
[01:18] <simira> mvo: I just assigned a bug to you on the update-manager issue. Still doesn't work :-/
[01:20] <mvo> simira: thanks, I will have a look. what bugnummber is it?
[01:20] <sivang> hey mvo 
[01:20] <simira> mvo: #51419
[01:22] <mvo> simira: thanks
[01:24] <Eons> wtf?! sudo doesn't work, gksudo does
[01:24] <Eons> how's that possible?!
[01:32] <doko> Kamion: all zope packages you listed are obsolete and marked for removal in unstable
[01:33] <NekoXP_> Kamion, that explains it then
[01:35] <Kamion> doko: great, thanks
[01:55] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I tend to think we should be bringing the core of X into sync before doing stuff on top of it
[01:55] <ogra> does debian use /usr/X11R6/ still ? 
[01:56] <Mithrandir> ogra: no, but there are some legacy symlinks there.
[01:56] <ogra> ah, k
[01:56] <Mithrandir> Kamion: yeah, that's what I'm coming to too.  Won't make sense to sync it and then break it.  Better break and then fix it.
[02:05] <doko> heh, he didn't say goodbye, seems like he's late ;-)
[02:08] <Keybuk> SIGSO
[02:08] <Keybuk> (the other signal you can't ignore)
[02:09] <thom> does that mean you can't handle an SO?
[02:10] <Mithrandir> not when being signalled, no.
[02:10] <Mithrandir> ;-)
[02:10] <_ion> My system doesn't have SIGSO.
[02:11] <thom> _ion: SO == Significant Other
[02:11] <Mithrandir> thom: he could still be lacking SIGSO due to lacking a SO..
[02:11] <_ion> thom: Yes.
[02:11] <thom> Mithrandir: true. i realised that just as i hit return, as ever
[02:13] <lifeless> the best time to realise tuff
[02:13] <lifeless> s/tuff/s&/
[02:22] <pitti> Keybuk: btw, do you know why MoM wants lynx merged? we have a newer version than Debian has
[02:22] <Kamion> Keybuk: argh I wish you hadn't done netcfg
[02:23] <Kamion> Keybuk: I have that in bzr
[02:23] <pitti> Keybuk: it's a bit special, unstable has a sarge security version
[02:23] <Keybuk> Kamion: oops, sorry!  forgot that was in bzr now
[02:23] <Kamion> I'll attempt to import it
[02:24] <Keybuk> the merge was an "easy" one iirc
[02:24] <Keybuk> I did that because I thought it was the one that wasn't
[02:24] <Kamion> please ignore all installer packages :-)
[02:24] <Keybuk> and is the one I tend to touch most
[02:24] <Kamion> it wasn't until relatively recently
[02:25] <Keybuk> pitti: 
[02:25] <Keybuk> DEBUG:root:lynx: ubuntu is 2.8.5-2ubuntu1
[02:25] <Keybuk> DEBUG:root:lynx: debian is 2.8.5-2sarge1
[02:25] <Keybuk> DEBUG:root:lynx: base is 2.8.5-2 (2.8.5-2 wanted)
[02:26] <pitti> funny that dholbach has so many KDE packages to sync :)
[02:26] <Keybuk> interesting case that
[02:26] <pitti> Keybuk: so, 'u' >> 's' certainly?
[02:26] <Keybuk> pitti: yes, but both are > the base :p
[02:26] <pitti> ah, yes
[02:26] <Keybuk> so the Ubuntu package should be 2.8.5-2sarge1ubuntu1 to "acknowledge the sync"
[02:26] <pitti> Keybuk: probably due to Debian's 'automatically import sarge-security into sid' trick I heard about
[02:27] <pitti> Keybuk: hm, I can do a no-change upload with a that newer version number to quieten it :)
[02:27] <pitti> Keybuk: well, I'll do it after doko uploaded our gcc with ssp fu, then it has at least a purpose :)
[02:28] <Keybuk> do we have all of those changes?
[02:28] <Keybuk> if it doesn't need a merge, just ignore it!
[02:28] <pitti> Keybuk: yes, it's just the sarge1 upload which is already incorporated in our pacakge
[02:28] <zul> hey
[02:29] <mvo> hello zul! you have mail :)
[02:29] <zul> wheee! :)
[02:29] <mvo> anyone working on the bittornado merge?
[02:29] <Kamion> Keybuk: yes, well, netcfg is an example of MOM *thinking* it can handle .po files ...
[02:29] <ajmitch> hey zul 
[02:29] <zul> hey ajmitch 
[02:29] <Kamion> the choices splitting in there didn't work out so well
[02:30] <Keybuk> Kamion: heh, you came up with the po handling :p
[02:30] <Kamion> I know
[02:30] <Keybuk> "po is hard, let's go shopping"
[02:30] <Kamion> hence why I expected that breakage ;)
[02:30] <Kamion> I'll clobber a different resolution over the top of your upload I think
[02:31] <Keybuk> fair enough
[02:31] <Kamion> 'cos otherwise the next merge will be painful
[02:32] <pitti> Keybuk: indeed, whenever the merge touched .po files, I generally merged manually to avoid cluttered deltas
[02:32] <Kamion> actually, it might just be a relatively small tweak, looking at the Debian diff ...
[02:32] <Kamion> er, the new diff versus Debian
[02:32] <Keybuk> yeah, I did do some manual tweaking of that one myself
[02:32] <pitti> Keybuk: maybe we can just ignore Ubuntu .po changes in MoM?
[02:33] <Kamion> pitti: !
[02:33] <Keybuk> libtasn1-3 |    0.3.4-2 |          edgy | amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
[02:33] <Keybuk> libtasn1-3 |    0.3.4-2 | edgy/universe | source
[02:33] <Keybuk> eh?
[02:33] <pitti> Keybuk: no, don't say someone synced that????
[02:33] <pitti> oh, 1-3
[02:33] <Keybuk> pitti: hmm?
[02:33] <Keybuk> there's no ubuntu changes there
[02:33] <pitti> Keybuk: gnutls12 and libtasn1-2 are b0rked in Debian now, let's not touch them
[02:34] <pitti> Keybuk: yes, I mixed it up with libtasn1-2
[02:34] <pitti> so, why is the package in main and the source in universe?
[02:34] <Fujitsu> !?
[02:34] <Keybuk> override bug
[02:34] <pitti> ah
[02:34] <Keybuk> explains why sync-source was bitching
[02:35] <pitti> Keybuk: po files> I thik we generally benefit from taking Debian's idea of PO files instead of trying to proliferate ubuntu diffs; Rosetta has them all anyway
[02:35] <Keybuk> pitti: I'll put you in a little room with Kamion :p
[02:36] <pitti> Kamion: you think it's a good idea to try to merge them?
[02:36] <pitti> Kamion: I'm not sure whether the current MoM implementation or our actual package diffs suck, but when I compare the original diff and the new proposed one, I lean towards MoM
[02:36] <Kamion> pitti: installer
[02:37] <pitti> Kamion: ah, true
[02:37] <Kamion> pitti: for non-pkgstriptranslations-blacklisted packages, I agree with you
[02:39] <mvo> doko: will we get python-support >= 0.3.0 soon (apparently bittornado build-deps on it)
[02:40] <Kamion> Keybuk: ok, I'll import yours after all and then debconf-updatepo it into submission
[02:40] <doko> mvo: inclusion reports are ready for review
[02:41] <pitti> doko: saw them
[02:41] <mvo> doko: cool, thanks
[02:41] <doko> mvo: but you have to sync it, it least in the old versions the supported python versions were hardcoded
[02:41] <doko> s/sync/merge/
[02:42] <mvo> doko: yeah, I'm doing that right now
[02:44] <irvin> Keybuk, can i pm you?
[02:45] <Kamion> Hobbsee: in case nobody's said already, could you use the -v<last_version_in_Ubuntu> option to debuild when building merged uploads
[02:45] <Kamion> ?
[02:45] <Kamion> looking at ksudoku 0.3-4ubuntu1
[02:45] <Keybuk> irvin: that's an awfully personal question
[02:45] <Keybuk> what about?
[02:46] <Kamion> the effect of that is to produce .changes files that include all the changes since the last version in our archive
[02:46] <Hobbsee> Kamion: ah, right.  no one told me that.
[02:46] <Hobbsee> will do in future
[02:47] <Kamion> the MOM report does mention it at the bottom although perhaps not very obviously
[02:48] <Hobbsee> the MOM report?
[02:48] <StevenK> grab-merge
[02:49] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: uh, how are you doing merges?
[02:49] <irvin> thanks a lot Keybuk !
[02:49] <pitti> doko, Kamion: python-{central,support} approved
[02:50] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: you know about http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html - yes?
[02:50] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: um, grabbing source from debian, from ubuntu, comparing them, seeing if the changes are still needed.
[02:51] <Keybuk> I had a feeling that's what you were doing <g>
[02:51] <Keybuk> so, we have this system called Merge-o-Matic, or MoM
[02:51] <Hobbsee> why do i get the feeling that whatever i say here is going to be wrong?
[02:51] <Hobbsee> yep, right
[02:51] <Keybuk> it does all that for you, and gives you either a merged source package, or a source with some conflicts that need resolving
[02:51] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: oh nice.
[02:51] <Keybuk> so let's pick a package randomly, kdbg -- that's one you last changed in Ubuntu
[02:51] <StevenK> Or a source that doesn't build, but MoM can't do anything about that. :-)
[02:51] <Whoopie> mdz: thanks for commiting the fix for #38272. Has it to be acknowledged by someone else? I don't find it in the dapper-changes mailinglist.
[02:52] <Keybuk> you can find it (or your name) on the web page above, or just go directly to it
[02:52] <Keybuk> http://merges.ubuntu.com/k/kdbg/REPORT
[02:52] <Hobbsee> haha, one of many, yes
[02:52] <jjesse> what does MoM stand for?
[02:52] <Kamion> merge-o-matic
[02:52] <Hobbsee> jjesse: merge-o-matic
[02:52] <Keybuk> that tells you the version in Debian and Ubuntu, a base version that was selected, and what happened when the system tried to do something about it
[02:52] <jjesse> ah
[02:52] <Keybuk> in the above case, you just end up with a conflict on po/cs.gmo that needs resolving
[02:52] <Keybuk> in that same directory, you find all the bits you need
[02:53] <StevenK> Or, use the leet grab-merge script
[02:53] <Keybuk> and at the bottom of that file, it tells you the arguments you need to give to dpkg-genchanges/buildpackage/debuild/etc.
[02:53] <Keybuk> right, https://merges.ubuntu.com/grab-merge.sh
[02:53] <Keybuk> in a temp directory, "grab-merge kdbg" ... then you have it all in front of you
[02:54] <StevenK> Along with a script to fix up the changes file.
[02:54] <Kamion> promoted python-{central,support}
[02:54] <Hobbsee> right...yep...
[02:54] <Keybuk> sometimes, like with kcemirror, there are no conflicts!
[02:54] <Keybuk> http://merges.ubuntu.com/k/kcemirror/REPORT
[02:55] <Keybuk> there it's generated you a complete source package, that you just need to check over
[02:55] <jjesse> wow seems like you guys make it pretty easy
[02:55] <Keybuk> http://merges.ubuntu.com/k/kcemirror/kcemirror_0.1.5-1ubuntu1.patch
[02:55] <Keybuk> ^ and there's the "updated patch"
[02:56] <Kamion> Whoopie: somebody needs to actually upload it, and then it needs a manual ack by an archive admin
[02:56] <Kamion> crimsun: are you going to upload your fix for bug 38272?
[02:56] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38272 in xserver-xorg-input-mouse "option EmulateWheelTimeout not working" [Medium,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/38272
[02:56] <Keybuk> using mom is much easier than doing it all by hand, mostly
[02:57] <Hobbsee> hehe true
[02:57] <Keybuk> I'd been suspicious for a short while that universe people hadn't heard of mom
[02:57] <Keybuk> or were at least not using it
[02:57] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: it's not on the link for merging, yes.
[02:57] <Whoopie> Kamion: ok, thanks for the explanation.
[02:57] <ajmitch> the news hadn't got out well enough
[02:57] <ajmitch> to those not following -devel
[02:57] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: would you like to be the universe ambassador, and help the MOTU use it?
[02:58] <ogra> hmm
[02:59] <Hobbsee> um
[02:59] <Kamion> it annoys me slightly that some of my local merge tools require CVS gettext
[02:59] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: once i understood it, maybe?
[02:59] <Keybuk> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel.commits.head/82801
[02:59] <Keybuk> \o/
[02:59] <Keybuk> PAAAAARTY!
[02:59] <ajmitch> yay
[02:59] <pitti> Keybuk: huh, clean up rave? :)
[03:00] <zul> Keybuk: yeah saw that this morning...whee!
[03:00] <Keybuk> pitti: "ding, dong, the witch is dead"
[03:01] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: from what i understand, universe people have heard of this mysterious MoM, often knows what it stands for, but have no clue in hell how to use it.
[03:01] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: teach them 
[03:02] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: 
[03:02] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: i cant teach them if i havent figured it out :P
[03:02] <ajmitch> that's part of teaching :)
[03:03] <Keybuk> I'll be happy to help out anywhere along the way
[03:03] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: right.  so if we have said diff above, what do we actually do with it?  (for kdbg)
[03:04] <Hobbsee> check it for sanity, and then upload it, or what?
[03:05] <Keybuk> so, if I were going to do kdbg, I'd first have downloaded the http://merges.ubuntu.com/grab-merge.sh script
[03:05] <Keybuk> then, in an empty directory, I'd do "grab-merge.sh kdbg"
[03:05] <Hobbsee> yep
[03:05] <Keybuk> it just downloads everything in k/kdbg for you
[03:05] <Keybuk> so in your working directory you now have the version of kdbg in Ubuntu
[03:05] <Keybuk> the version of kdbg in Debian
[03:05] <Keybuk> and the version of kdbg from Debian that the one Ubuntu was based off
[03:05] <Keybuk> you also have two patches
[03:05] <Keybuk> one which is "the Ubuntu changes to kdbg"
[03:06] <Keybuk> and the other which is "the Debian changes to kdbg"
[03:06] <Keybuk> finally you have a .src.tar.gz and a list of conflicts -- this is unpacked by grab-merge automatically
[03:06] <Keybuk> if you go into that directory, for each file listed, you'll either find a .DEBIAN and .UBUNTU version -- or one file with diff3 conflict markers (<<<<</[03:07] <Keybuk> for the .DEBIAN and .UBUNTU case, you need to pick one of them, or merge them together by hand, rename it to the proper filename, and delete the other
[03:07] <Keybuk> for the diff3 conflict marker case, edit the file, and pick one side, the other side, or a combination of both for each block
[03:08] <Keybuk> you can then update debian/changelog to include your name
[03:08] <Keybuk> and do ../merge-buildpackage -rfakeroot to generate a source with the right details
[03:08] <Keybuk> Hobbsee_: heh, how much of that did you get?
[03:08] <Hobbsee> bloody thing.
[03:09] <Hobbsee> [23:05]  <Keybuk> the version of kdbg in Debian
[03:09] <Hobbsee> was the last thing i got
[03:09] <Keybuk> http://rafb.net/paste/results/3i8dGe51.html
[03:09] <Hobbsee> thanks
[03:09] <Keybuk> once you've got the new source, you can debdiff that with the current Debian one and compare that patch to the base->ubuntu one ... and thus see whether anything's gone wrong
[03:09] <Hobbsee> that was my *eth0* going down, not my wlan0 - wow!
[03:09] <Keybuk> and you can also generally mooch around the diff, etc. to make sure it's all looking ok
[03:09] <Keybuk> if you're happy, upload it
[03:10] <Keybuk> for the kcemirror case, it's even easier; there's no conflicts, so instead of a src.tar.gz you get a third source package and a third patch
[03:10] <Keybuk> so you just need to do the last step -- compare the source and patch to the previous ones, see if you're happy, and upload it
[03:11] <Keybuk> http://rafb.net/paste/results/aFfBi141.html  <-  all of the above in one
[03:11] <mvo> anyone working on the "blt" merge?
[03:12] <Hobbsee> ffs.  work you stupid thing!
[03:12] <Keybuk> mvo: go for it
[03:12] <pitti> what does 'ffs' mean?
[03:12] <Keybuk> pitti: "for fuck's sake"
[03:12] <Hobbsee> pitti: you dont want to know.
[03:12] <pitti> ah
[03:13] <Hobbsee> haha oh dear.  i taught the dev channel something.
[03:14] <pitti> mvo: let's see whether we need it in today's game
[03:14] <Hobbsee> this is what endless crashes, freezes, and 3 BSoD's in one night gives you.
[03:15] <mvo> pitti: haha, right - I bet people will look puzlled if I suddenly cry: 'ffs'
[03:15] <pitti> Hobbsee: we have BSoDs in Ubuntu now???
[03:15] <Hobbsee> plus a crashing akgreator.
[03:15] <Hobbsee> +g
[03:15] <_ion> FFS means Fast File System. :-)
[03:15] <Hobbsee> pitti: no, i had to use an XP machine for recording tonight.
[03:15] <Hobbsee> it.  was.  shocking.
[03:15] <mvo> Facial Feminizing Surgery <- according to google
[03:15] <Hobbsee> pitti: actually, i think we do.  the screensaver.
[03:15] <pitti> Hobbsee: wow, I thought XP was generally quite stable nowadays
[03:16] <Hobbsee> pitti: it's not.  well, if you try to connect a mixing desk via firewire cable.
[03:16] <pitti> Hobbsee: hah, yes! the FBSoD :)
[03:16] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:16] <StevenK> Hobbsee: That would be the driver for the mixing desk, or the USB stack.
[03:16] <Hobbsee> recording/mixing desk
 for the diff3 conflict marker case, edit the file, and pick one side, the other side, or a combination of both for each block <-- i got up to there.  what does this mean?
[03:17] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Microsoft like to claim otherwise, but a crap driver can and will still bring XP down.
[03:17] <StevenK> Hobbsee: You'll see a file with <<<<<< text [03:17] <_ion> pitti: When they say XP is "stable", they actually mean it has horsecrap all over the floor.
[03:17] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:17] <StevenK> Hobbsee: With newlines inserted, of course.
[03:18] <StevenK> Hobbsee: That means both Ubuntu and Debian have made a change, and a different one at that.
[03:18] <Hobbsee> StevenK: not sure which file you're talking about
[03:18] <StevenK> It could be any file, but the most common I've seen is debian/control.
[03:18] <StevenK> Hobbsee: I'm talking in the general case.
[03:19] <StevenK> Hobbsee: You're see that if the report contains a line like "       C debian/control"
[03:19] <StevenK> Er, You'll
[03:20] <Hobbsee> hmmm.  i'm utterly and totally lost, and not understanding what you're saying.
[03:21] <StevenK> Right. Are you looking at a report at the moment?
[03:21] <StevenK> (If so, which?)
[03:21] <Hobbsee> StevenK: kdbg
[03:22] <pitti> fabbione: is there a spec about the snakeoil SSL cert that I can point to in Debian bug reports?
[03:23] <StevenK> Keybuk: Oh yeah, I've noticed that grab-merge sometimes downloads the orig twice.
[03:23] <Keybuk> StevenK: yeah, it will if it's listed twice *shrug*
[03:23] <StevenK> Keybuk: Usually it's fine, except if the orig is for xemacs21...
[03:23] <pitti> mvo: I guess noone is looking at Charles' syncs yet
[03:24] <mvo> pitti: yeah, that is why I'm looking, we can sync bluez-libs directly - I love it when I can do this :-D
[03:26] <pitti> mvo: yeah, me too :) I'm sending easy diffs to Debian right now, hoping that we can sync even more in the future
[03:26] <pitti> mvo: Joey Hess applied my patch within some hours, so that we could already sync analog :)
[03:27] <pitti> mvo: Marco d'Itri is a little ... tougher
[03:27] <mvo> haha
[03:28] <Keybuk> heh, I get along with Marco just fine
[03:28] <Keybuk> the trick is just to make sure he can get all of the patches, and let him pick and choose them as he likes
[03:29] <StevenK> Keybuk: And make it sound like his idea? ;_)
[03:29] <StevenK> Ow, my nose.
[03:30] <Keybuk> StevenK: fixed version of grab-merge for you
[03:30] <Keybuk> nah, he's quite easy to deal with if you just say "more patches for you, take your pick"
[03:30] <Keybuk> in fact, he's one of the better Debian maintainers; because if he doesn't like the patch, he just doesn't take it -- he doesn't feel the need to bitch about it ad infinitum
[03:31] <Hobbsee> hehe.  useful
[03:31] <StevenK> Keybuk: Oh, thank thee
[03:32] <pitti> Keybuk: I sent him a minimal patch (1 line), even as attachment, with a detailled explanation
[03:32] <pitti> anyway, /me goes on
[03:34] <ogra> greedy man you
[03:34] <ogra> :)
[03:34] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:34] <mvo> says the man who claimed all of edubuntu ;)
[03:34] <ogra> heh
[03:34] <ogra> i just merged fuse ... thats only indirectly edubuntu :P
[03:37] <Keybuk> pitti: yup, I usually stick it on people and /msg him -- but the theory is sound
[03:38] <pitti> let the breakage begin! :)
[03:38] <zul> mmm...breakage
[03:40] <Keybuk> mmm...breakfast
[03:40] <Hobbsee> pitti: heh, well, i'm not sure my current edgy actually boots tonight, so you might have got what you were looking for.
[03:41] <ajmitch> pitti: ah good, the pain starts :)
[03:42] <Hobbsee> aaaarrrrrgggghhhhhhh!
[03:42] <Hobbsee> part of my backup's still on the other computer.
[03:42] <ajmitch> pitti: I blame my laptop keyboard
[03:52] <ogra> Keybuk, 
[03:52] <ogra> dh_testdir
[03:52] <ogra> ./configure --prefix=/usr --mandir=/usr/share/man
[03:52] <ogra> make: execvp: ./configure: Permission denied
[03:52] <ogra> make: *** [build-stamp]  Error 127
[03:52] <ogra> pbuilder: Failed autobuilding of package
[03:53] <ogra> is it intentional that mom removes execute bits ? 
[03:53] <pitti> ogra: chmod 755 configure debian/rules :)
[03:53] <pitti> ogra: that was fixed recently
[03:53] <ivoks> hi all
[03:53] <ogra> pitti, no, its actually configure thats not executable
[03:53] <pitti> hey ivoks 
[03:53] <pitti> ogra: see my chmod command :)
[03:53] <ogra> rules is fine 
[03:53] <Keybuk> ogra: no, it's not intentional
[03:53] <Mithrandir> ogra: patch doesn't preserve file permission bits.
[03:53] <Keybuk> what's the source package?
[03:54] <pitti> ogra: to be sure, I build the source package and unpack it again
[03:54] <ogra> pwgen
[03:54] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: mom doesn't use patch
[03:54] <ogra> pitti, i testbuild all my packages before upload :)
[03:55] <pitti> ogra: yes, me too, that's why I delete/re-unpack the source to make sure that permissions, timestamps, etc. are fine
[03:56] <Keybuk> ogra: yes, I see your point, it's not copied the permissions across
[03:57] <ogra> yep
[03:57] <Keybuk> oh, arse
[03:57] <ogra> i fixed that, but wanted to notify you
[03:57] <Keybuk> it's not much of a problem, because it'll get "fixed" by uploading it anyway
[03:58] <Keybuk> but it's annoying :p
[03:58] <Hobbsee> hi bddebian 
[03:58] <ogra> its the first package where i see that though
[03:58] <Keybuk> it'll show up wherever there's a +x file that isn't conflicted
[03:58] <Keybuk> but there's a conflict elsewhere
[03:58] <ogra> ah
[03:59] <bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
[03:59] <bddebian> and everyone else
[03:59] <Keybuk> right, fixed
[03:59] <ajmitch> night all
[03:59] <Keybuk> return merge_file(...)  needed to be if merge_file(...): return True
[03:59] <Keybuk> otherwise it didn't fix the attributes afterwards
[04:00] <bddebian> Gnight ajmitch
[04:00] <Hobbsee> night ajmitch 
[04:00] <zul> c ya ajmitch 
[04:02] <iwj> Keybuk: The ff mom output has marked some files as C but the file is actually empty.
[04:03] <Keybuk> iwj: ignore the empty file, look at the .DEBIAN and .UBUNTU next to it
[04:03] <Keybuk> known bug, already fixed
[04:03] <iwj> Ah, so treat them as C*.
[04:04] <Keybuk> yup
[04:04] <iwj> In fact they're all files which I don't care about and I'm not sure why they're different anyway but it doesn't matter.
[04:05] <Keybuk> gmo files usually
[04:06] <iwj> No, random other crap.  ff is full of it.
[04:06] <jsgotangco> good evening
[04:07] <Keybuk> heh
[04:09] <bddebian> Heya jsgotangco
[04:13] <bddebian> What does the color scheme represent on the Merges pages?
[04:14] <iwj> It's a shame MoM can't automatically figure out the changelog :-).
[04:14] <Keybuk> iwj: what did it break?  it has a changelog handler
[04:14] <Keybuk> bddebian: package's priority
[04:15] <iwj> Well, it doesn't know what to remove and anyway I like to have the ubuntu changes at the top.
[04:15] <iwj> I mean, changes that Debian have taken still appear in the changelog (in general the changelog entries aren't identical between Ubuntu and Debian).
[04:16] <bddebian> Keybuk: Green being high or low? :-)
[04:16] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: MOM is cool :P
[04:16] <Keybuk> bddebian: green would be optional or extra
[04:16] <Keybuk> extra is more blueish
[04:16] <bddebian> Hey, everything in Universe is blue or green.. WTF?? ;-)
[04:17] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:17] <Keybuk> bddebian: everything in universe is either priority optional or extra
[04:18] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: did you want to check my kdbg, to check that i'm doing it right now?
[04:19] <bddebian> Keybuk: I was joking. :-)
[04:19] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: shouldn't need to, you almost certainly have got it right
[04:19] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: then you should be fine to upload it?  :P
[04:19] <Keybuk> it's a universe package, no?
[04:19] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: and what happened to ksudoku after that?  why isnt it on MoM?
[04:19] <bddebian> Wow Hobbsee, you have brass ones :-)
[04:20] <Hobbsee> bddebian: i do?
[04:20] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: bddebian uploaded ksudoko for you
[04:20] <bddebian> Hobbsee: Make Keybuk be your bitch ;-P
[04:20] <Keybuk> so there's no outstanding merge for it now
[04:20] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: right, cool, just checking
[04:20] <Keybuk> if another version appears in Debian. it'll appear in the "updated merges" list at the bottom
[04:20] <Hobbsee> bddebian: dont worry, you'll be next :P
[04:20] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: right
[04:21] <bddebian> Hobbsee: I'm already ashamed that my first Edgy upload was your and not mine :-)
[04:21] <Hobbsee> bddebian: as is the case with the dh_iconcache fixes - there was no lack of packages waiting to be uploaded :P
[04:21] <Hobbsee> bddebian: shame, shame.  remind me to never go for MOTU so that it may always be like that.
[04:21] <bddebian> Heh
[04:22] <Hobbsee> bddebian: where were the brass ones?
[04:23] <bddebian> Hobbsee: Uhm, err, never mind since you don't have 'ones' :-)
[04:23] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: it's universe, yes
[04:24] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: so a MOTU member should check and upload that for you
[04:24] <bddebian> Fine, fine, where is it?
[04:24] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: and core devs are not included in MOTU, right :P
[04:24] <Hobbsee> bddebian: on revu, i'll grab you a link
[04:25] <Hobbsee> bddebian: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2556
[04:25] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:25] <Hobbsee> thanks bddebian :)
[04:26] <bddebian> Hobbsee: Sorry, you have specified an invalid distribution.. ;-P
[04:27] <fabbione> mvo: there was a problem with lvm2 udeb <- being linked with libselinux and you don't want that
[04:27] <fabbione> mvo: that was only on ppc iirc
[04:27] <bddebian> Hobbsee: Yeah :)
[04:27] <fabbione> pitti: yes you can use the old server spec
[04:28] <mvo> fabbione: ok, I did the merge and left it out 
[04:29] <fabbione> mvo: left it out as in skipped the hunk?
[04:29] <fabbione> mvo: it would good to see if that linking issue is gone
[04:30] <bddebian> Hobbsee: Uhm, where is the tarball?
[04:31] <mvo> fabbione: left it out as in: removed libselinux build-dep and build it with --disable-selinux (to play it safe)
[04:31] <bddebian> Hobbsee: Ack, you shot me in the uploading hand.. ;-P
[04:31] <Hobbsee> bddebian: um.  indeed.  
[04:31] <Hobbsee> crud.
[04:31] <Hobbsee> bddebian: it's in ubuntu source :P
[04:31] <Hobbsee> obviously it didnt get uploaded
[04:31] <mvo> fabbione: but we definietely should check that again, I just couldn't figure from the changelog in what way it broke
[04:32] <fabbione> mvo: ok. do you have a ppc to test?
[04:32] <fabbione> mvo: otherwise i can do it locally but not today
[04:32] <Hobbsee> bddebian: it's at http://merges.ubuntu.com/k/kdbg/kdbg_2.0.4.orig.tar.gz <-- but that doesnt solve the fact that it didnt get uploaded automatically
[04:32] <mvo> fabbione: no, only the ppc porter machines, but its unlikely that I will manage today
[04:32] <fabbione> mvo: it's not urgent
[04:33] <bddebian> Hobbsee: Aye, I'm getting it
[04:33] <fabbione> mvo: we need to build devmapper and then lvm2
[04:33] <fabbione> mvo: to verify it links correctly...
[04:33] <iwj> Joy of Thai word breaking patch.
[04:33] <Hobbsee> bddebian: i just ran the dput revu *.changes
[04:33] <fabbione> mvo: and there no other consequences like the world needs to be rebuilt in 20 minutes kind of thingy
[04:33] <fabbione> mvo: it's just those 2 pkgs
[04:33] <mvo> iwj: 80 million thai people love you for it
[04:34] <mvo> fabbione: ok, thanks :)
[04:34] <fabbione> mvo: no problem.. i was actually going to suggest that i would these merges.. but i come too late
[04:35] <jsgotangco> mvo: 65Million rather =)
[04:35] <mvo> fabbione: no worries
[04:36] <mvo> jsgotangco: right :) lets make it "millions and millions of thai people"
[04:37] <sivang> re
[04:40] <bddebian> wb sivang
[04:47] <sivang> hey bddebian 
[04:47] <fabbione> Keybuk: i am going to reboot my main workstation with multiple ide controllers stuff in edgy in a few minutes.. mind to stay around if something explodes badly?
[04:48] <Keybuk> sure
[04:48] <Keybuk> it'll break :p
[04:48] <fabbione> Keybuk: any idea how?
[04:48] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: hey this is much easier!
[04:48] <Keybuk> I'd expect your controllers to be reversed
[04:48] <Keybuk> hda -> hde, hde -> hda, etc.
[04:48] <fabbione> Keybuk: hmmmmm interesting.. how so?
[04:49] <Keybuk> fabbione: IDE drivers will be loaded in the opposite order to what they were in dapper
[04:49] <fabbione> Keybuk: ok, if that happens, how can i re-order them?
[04:49] <Keybuk> you can't, currently
[04:49] <fabbione> (asking before rebooting since the ws is where i am IRC'ing from)
[04:49] <Keybuk> you could switch to mount-by-uuid
[04:49] <fabbione> hmm ok
[04:49] <bddebian> Gah, where's the Standards Version information on Debian?
[04:49] <fabbione> let's hope the RAID won't explode
[04:50] <slomo> bddebian: depends on what you want to know :) but the policy is a good start
[04:50] <bddebian> slomo: I want to know the latest Standards Version and what changed
[04:51] <slomo> fabbione: seems like there's a null pointer exception somewhere in the kernel currently when using sata drives... see bug #51308http://athlon64.fsij.org/archive/2006/03/20/debian/pool/main/t/tomboy/tomboy_0.3.5-1.diff.gz
[04:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 51308 in linux-source-2.6.17 "linux-image-2.6.17-3-686 doesn't boot, libata error" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/51308
[04:52] <fabbione> slomo:  i don't have SATA....
[04:52] <fabbione> slomo: i wrote IDE
[04:52] <sivang> slomo: I wonder if that's the same what I got
[04:53] <slomo> bddebian: latest is 3.7.2 (.1)... look here for the changelog: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/d/debian-policy/current/changelog
[04:53] <bddebian> slomo: THx
[04:53] <Keybuk> fabbione: IDE uses libata in edgy
[04:53] <Keybuk> (or, at least, will)
[04:54] <Keybuk> but that's not the bug
[04:54] <Keybuk> the ide ordering bug is just that I haven't written sorting code for udevtrigger yet
[04:54] <Keybuk> so we're using the upstream stuff, which is (imo) wrong
[04:54] <sivang> Keybuk: do you expect that stuff to break things on sata laptops? :)
[04:55] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: did you upload your updated grab-merges script, to fix the permissions?
[04:55] <Keybuk> which stuff?
[04:55] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: which permissions fix?
[04:55] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: thought you mentioned something above.  anyway, everything's owned by root, making you use sudo dch etc...
[04:56] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: for the stuff that's downloaded with the script
[04:56] <fabbione> Keybuk: yes i know about the libata plans. that will break a lot on my system but i will also be happy to lart with bugs :P
[04:58] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: hmm?  nothing should be owned by root... unless you ran it as root?
[04:58] <Keybuk> did you do "sudo grab-merge" ?
[04:58] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: oh darn it.  guilty as charged.
[04:58] <Hobbsee> i was having trouble making the script execute - that was the cursing earlier, where i taught the dev channel somethign :P
[05:01] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: this list gets updated every 6 hours, right?
[05:02] <Keybuk> every hour, normally
[05:02] <Hobbsee> right, nice :)
[05:02] <Hobbsee> this is way easier!
[05:02] <Keybuk> I'm doing some manual fixing up of the merges at the moment -- to get rid of the buggy ones -- so it 
[05:02] <Keybuk> won't be quite hourly atm
[05:03] <Hobbsee> fair enough :)
[05:04] <\sh> hmmm...which script creates /var/run/network?
[05:06] <\sh> I installed ubuntu-minimal and /etc/init.d/networking doesn't come up, because /var/run/network/ifstate is missing, but /var/run/ exists
[05:07] <fabbione>  /var/lib/dpkg/info/portmap.postinst: line 51: db_get: command not found
[05:07] <fabbione> ^^ for who did the merge
[05:08] <fabbione> it's missing the include to debconf stuff
[05:09] <\sh> and I don't understand where /var/run is mounted...because it's missing in tmpfs, but mtab says something else
[05:10] <\sh> ok /etc/init.d/mountvirtfs is doing the mount
[05:12] <Keybuk> \sh: S01mountvirtfs does the mount, S08loopback creates the directory
[05:12] <Keybuk> and it's first used by S10udev and later by S40networking
[05:12] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: got a problem.  with using the ../merge-genchanges script, why doesnt it upload the .orig.tar.gz as well (to revu, with dput revu *.changes)?  it has parameters -S -sa...
[05:13] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: no idea, paste the changes file and merge-genchanges script somewhere
[05:14] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: http://pastebin.ca/75760
[05:14] <Hobbsee> (argh, no i do *not* want to paste 57 lines into the middle of the channel thanks!)
[05:15] <Keybuk> changes file includes the orig.tar.gz ... must be dput bug
[05:16] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: how to fix?  upload it manually or something?  or just point to where the .orig.tar.gz is?
[05:16] <Keybuk> no idea, I've never used dput
[05:16] <\sh> Keybuk: in what runlevel? I don't find it in rc2.d
[05:16] <Keybuk> \sh: rcS
[05:16] <sivang> Keybuk: how do you upload packages then?
[05:16] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: it usually works, with my revubuild script!  :P
[05:17] <sivang> (manual ftp??)
[05:17] <Hobbsee> ie dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot -k98B2D4F0
[05:17] <Keybuk> sivang: dupload
[05:18] <fabbione> Keybuk: it does work as it is
[05:19] <Keybuk> fabbione: cool
[05:19] <fabbione> Keybuk: except a few tons of that "open $something: failed"
[05:19] <fabbione> but i guess that was usplash because i started in nosplash showmeallthecrack
[05:19] <\sh> Keybuk: hmm...what could it be, that mountvirtfs is not started somehow? 
[05:19] <Keybuk> \sh: buggered if I know
[05:19] <\sh> Keybuk: booting normal amd64-generic kernel from dapper...
[05:19] <Keybuk> dapper or edgy?
[05:19] <\sh> dapper
[05:20] <Keybuk> works fine here
[05:20] <\sh> Keybuk: sure, normal install works fine...but it looks like that I'm missing a piece in my FAI installation..everything is installed, ubuntu-minimal installed
[05:21] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: okay, so it was just being tempramental with the last package - this is uploading fine.
[05:21] <\sh> well, anyways...I'm stopping now with my work here...
[05:25] <Hobbsee> oh good :)
[05:40] <mdz> Whoopie: 'fix committed' means a fix is available, but not uploaded yet
[05:41] <bddebian> Aye
[05:42] <bddebian> Oh, hmm, me to
[05:44] <Yagisan> Hobbsee: only almost
[05:44] <Hobbsee> yeah
[05:45] <Yagisan> you poor thing
[05:46] <Hobbsee> hehe
[05:46] <Hobbsee> it was either that or no dinner.
[05:47] <LaserJock> the golden arches were a blessed sign in Paris ;-)
[05:47] <jsgotangco> haha
[05:47] <lifeless> you didn't!
[05:47] <jsgotangco> yes he did
[05:47] <Hobbsee> hehe
[05:47] <Hobbsee> he?
[05:47] <lifeless> OMG
[05:47] <jsgotangco> le big mac
[05:47] <LaserJock> that, and a Subway across the streat from Notre Dame
[05:47] <lifeless> Hobbsee: LaserJock 
[05:47] <Hobbsee> oh right
[05:48] <Hobbsee> i thought i was missing something there!
[05:48] <lifeless> maccas in sydney is one thing
[05:48] <lifeless> maccas in paris is a whole nother ball game
[05:48] <jsgotangco> he went all the way to paris to eat something that originated from brazil
[05:48] <jsgotangco> heh
[05:48] <LaserJock> :-)
[05:48] <sivang> lifeless: what is maccas ?
[05:49] <lifeless> mcdonalds
[05:49] <fabbione> sivang: the aussie equivalent of McDonald?
[05:49] <Hobbsee> oh no, i'm about to get yelled at!
[05:49] <LaserJock> well, the hotel food made me a little wary of Parisan cooking, despite what I've heard all these years ;-)
[05:49] <jsgotangco> raw beef scared ya
[05:49] <LaserJock> yep
[05:50] <jsgotangco> next time i will join the LTSP guys for dinner
[05:50] <LaserJock> but right after Subway highvoltage and I found the LTSP guys in a cafe, we missed out
[05:50] <ghee22> hi i'm working on a program for ubuntu, and am stuck at a mono error.  anyone interested?
[05:51] <sivang> LaserJock: raw beef had become a delight aftr that week :p
[05:51] <sivang> or what ever delight is spelled
[05:52] <sivang> :-)
[05:52] <LaserJock> yikes, the McDonalds and Subway keep me from becoming that desperate ;-)
[05:52] <fabbione> i have in .fr different times.. never been able to eat decent food there != $big_fat_well_known_world_wide_chain
[05:52] <jsgotangco> lol
[05:53] <Yagisan> I've considered many times the choice of McDonalds, or starving. Considering 3 of the last 4 times I went to maccas I got food poisoning, I choose starving now
[05:53] <sivang> LaserJock: still,the beef and chicken were quite good, and as someone liking cheese, it was an experimental experieince :)
[05:53] <jsgotangco> el!
[05:53] <Hobbsee> ouch.  i'm getting rm and mv confused.
[05:53] <bddebian> Guilty?  I would eat a hamburger or steak for Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner if I could :-)
[05:53] <bddebian> Hobbsee: That's not good :-)
[05:53] <Hobbsee> lucky i didnt preface those with sudo, or use wildcards!
[05:54] <Yagisan> At least Burger King usually cooks the burger when you order it, not 30 minutes prior. anyway thats enough of me being off topic
[05:55] <LaserJock> Yagisan: I was trying to find a Wendy's but I'd have taken Burger King over McDonalds for sure
[05:55] <Hobbsee> fabbione: logging in as root?
[05:55] <fabbione> Hobbsee: rarely but yeah
[05:56] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: he just uses his awesome brain power to force the computer to use super user privileges
[05:56] <Hobbsee> hehe
[05:56] <fabbione> LaserJock: that's a good answer too
[05:56] <bddebian> Wendy's Rocks
[05:56] <LaserJock> heck yeah
[05:57] <Hobbsee> haha
[05:58] <jsgotangco> lol
[05:59] <Hobbsee> hehe
[05:59] <LaserJock> oh wait, they melted over the Indian ocean ;-)
[05:59] <fabbione> LaserJock: actually no
[05:59] <fabbione> they won't melt
[05:59] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: these are *special* icecubes
[05:59] <fabbione> once you get around 39000 feet you are at about -50 C
[05:59] <LaserJock> ah, I see
[06:00] <fabbione> so the problem is to find the right speed to push them at that height
[06:00] <LaserJock> right, I recently found that out (nice monitors on the plane over to France)
[06:00] <fabbione> too fast and they would melt for friction
[06:00] <fabbione> too slow and they would melt before the atmosphere temp is 0 or below
[06:00] <Hobbsee> oh no, dont remind me of physics...
[06:00] <fabbione> of we assume that once they are 39K feet there is nothing to slow them down
[06:01] <bddebian> fabbione: Do we have our X guy yet? :-)
[06:01] <fabbione> otherwise i guess they won't cross the road outside your house :)
[06:01] <fabbione> bddebian: yes you do have one
[06:01] <jsgotangco> hehe
[06:01] <zul> bddebian: its Mr. X
[06:02] <Hobbsee> gah!  darned thing
[06:02] <bddebian> zul: Congratulations and thanks! ;-P
[06:04] <LaserJock> or was that "bddebian is Mr. X"? ;-)
[06:04] <fabbione> ok...
[06:04] <fabbione> so
[06:04] <fabbione> our new Mr X is...
[06:04] <bddebian> LaserJock: No, fabbione didn't want me :-)
[06:05] <fabbione> Hobbsee: that would Mrs
[06:05] <fabbione> ;)
[06:05] <LaserJock> Miss
[06:05] <Hobbsee> bddebian: no, we need you to upload all of our fixes
[06:05] <LaserJock> or Ms.
[06:05] <Hobbsee> fabbione: heh.  you'd be surprised at how many people refer to me as a male :P
[06:05] <Hobbsee> even when i'm there in person DRESSED IN A SKIRT AND TOP!
[06:05] <fabbione> Hobbsee: i understand i am getting old.. but i can still make the diff...
[06:05] <Hobbsee> a skirt i tell you!  and still the guy got it wrong!
[06:06] <bddebian> Maybe they think it's a kilt? ;-P
[06:06] <jsgotangco> lol
[06:06] <Hobbsee> no, that was winter uniform, not summer :P
[06:06] <Hobbsee> and guys dont wear kilts over here
[06:06] <fabbione> "Doctor, I am 90 years old and i keep running behind young girls!" "and is it bad? you should be happy about it!" "Yeah but i don't remember why!"
[06:07] <fabbione> ok
[06:07] <fabbione> so
[06:07] <fabbione> Mr X
[06:07] <Hobbsee> after that lovely tangent, yes
[06:08] <fabbione> i am told is from a fantastic country.. full of italians
[06:08] <fabbione> but it's not italy
[06:08] <jsgotangco> eh?
[06:08] <Yagisan> Sounds like here
[06:08] <fabbione> wonderful land
[06:08] <fabbione> exceptionally good food
[06:08] <fabbione> and wine 
[06:08] <jsgotangco> france?
[06:09] <fabbione> sorry.. did ever have good wine in france?
[06:09] <bddebian> hehe
[06:09] <jsgotangco> well we did on the last day
[06:09] <fabbione> jsgotangco: it was imported from Italy mostlikely :P
[06:10] <jsgotangco> haha
[06:10] <fabbione> anyway
[06:10] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: yeah, I was able to make more than 1 glass of that stuff
[06:10] <fabbione> so please welcome R*****o  as our new MrX
[06:10] <fabbione> ops..
[06:11] <fabbione> i meant.. *od*ri**
[06:11] <jsgotangco> hahaha
[06:11] <LaserJock> I like there beef, yum yum
[06:11] <fabbione> no that doesn't work either
[06:11] <LaserJock> their
[06:11] <jsgotangco> fabbione: he denies it vehemently
[06:11] <fabbione> oh well
[06:11] <fabbione> rodarvus: !
[06:11] <fabbione> ^ him
[06:11] <jsgotangco> :D
[06:11] <fabbione> he is Mr X
[06:12] <LaserJock> \o/
[06:12] <jsgotangco> welcome the new xorg overlord
[06:12] <rodarvus> O_O
[06:12] <Hobbsee> night all
[06:12] <Yagisan> next up. "Where in the World is Mr. Y game" ;)
[06:12] <Hobbsee> it's gone 2am
[06:12] <rodarvus> hi :)
[06:12] <Hobbsee> hehe
[06:13] <Hobbsee> (all bugs in the ubuntu world)
[06:13] <iwj> The trouble with a merge is that the ccache priming approach doesn't work.
[06:13] <rodarvus> huge even
[06:13] <fabbione> rodarvus: no, you just want to forward them back to the (l)users..
[06:14] <Hobbsee> hehehe
[06:14] <Hobbsee> mark them all as "need info" then close due to lack of info.
[06:14] <rodarvus> heh
[06:14] <fabbione> rodarvus: congratulation and good luck anyway
[06:14] <fabbione> you are going to do fine
[06:14] <rodarvus> fabbione, thanks :)
[06:15] <jsgotangco> yes he needs the exercise =D
[06:16] <fabbione> ogra: how does it feel?
[06:16] <fabbione> ogra: was it painful?
[06:16] <ogra> what ?
[06:17] <fabbione> ogra: the goal argentina did :)
[06:17] <rodarvus> "sodomotron" is [tm]  fabbione ;)
[06:17] <rodarvus> ogra doesn't likes football
[06:17] <ogra> ah ...
[06:17] <fabbione> rodarvus: no, it's older than me :)
[06:17] <jsgotangco> heh
[06:17] <fabbione> rodarvus: it comes from XFS
[06:17] <rodarvus> ahn :)
[06:19] <jsgotangco> it doesn't look good heh
[06:20] <Kamion> fabbione: XSF surely :)
[06:20] <fabbione> Kamion: that too..
[06:20] <iwj> OK, I give up, what's a gmo file ?
[06:20] <iwj> Apart from some hideous thing to do with gettext.
[06:21] <bddebian> Wow, welcome rodarvus :-)
[06:21] <bddebian> Now, fix xmkmf will ya? ;-P
[06:21] <Kamion> iwj: compiled .po file
[06:21] <iwj> Why oh why oh why is it in the `source' then ?
[06:21] <Kamion> because some upstreams want to avoid requiring a dependency on gettext
[06:22] <Kamion> usual answer is to just remove the buggers on clean
[06:22] <Kamion> and rely on dpkg-source to not care
[06:22] <iwj> Nice.
[06:22] <Kamion> msgfmt/msgunfmt convert back and forward between .po and .gmo
[06:22] <rodarvus> bddebian, thanks - problem is I'll still have lots of merging work to do even before thinking of fixing stuff :)
[06:23] <fabbione> bddebian: that will come natural with the first merge
[06:23] <bddebian> fabbione: Ah, OK
[06:23] <bddebian> rodarvus: I don't know a great deal but if I can help in any way, please let me know
[06:24] <sivan> Riddell: everything's alright with muse?
[06:24] <Hobbsee> sivan: havent seen him around yet 
[06:24] <sivan> Riddell: I can ssh in anymore
[06:24] <sivan> ah,
[06:24] <sivan> sladen: ping
[06:24] <Hobbsee> anyway, night all
[06:26] <sivan> sladen: muse responds to pings, however SSH seems to be down
[06:32] <rodarvus> bddebian, sure, thanks!
[06:36] <sivan> sladen: back here, ping me if there's any change.
[06:38] <jsgotangco> doh
[06:43] <iwj> What's the current procedure for sync requests ?
[06:43] <NekoXP_> stand on one leg
[06:43] <NekoXP_> bark like a dog
[06:43] <NekoXP_> and flap your arms like a chicken
[06:44] <bddebian> Hah
[06:44] <LaserJock> iwj: I believe file a bug and subscribe ubuntu-archive
[06:44] <Kamion> LaserJock is correct
[06:45] <iwj> Is this documented somewhere ?
[06:45] <Kamion> yes, DeveloperResources
[06:45] <Kamion> under "Syncs"
[06:45] <iwj> Ah, fool me, I was looking for `sync' in page titles only.
[06:45] <LaserJock> Kamion: what about people who aren't core-dev or MOTUs? are they ok to file sync bugs?
[06:46] <Kamion> LaserJock: (when we remember to check) we'll only take sync requests from people who would ordinarily be able to perform the same upload themselves
[06:46] <Kamion> others can file them if they like, but it's probably not worth the effort, as we'll get somebody in ubuntu-core-dev or ubuntu-dev as appropriate to confirm
[06:47] <Kamion> and confirming is usually just as much effort as filing it yourself
[06:47] <sivan> right
[06:47] <LaserJock> k, thanks for the clarification, I had somebody ask yesterday and I wasn't sure since there isn't really anything that stops them from filing the bug
[06:47] <LaserJock> but I thought perhaps you guys would look ;-)
[06:49] <Kamion> I do check, I don't know if Keybuk does
[06:50] <Keybuk> yeah, I always check
[06:51] <Keybuk> if my brain can't automatically map a user's ordinary name into their LP id, I tend to first find out who they are :)
[06:51] <Kamion> right :)
[06:52] <sivan> Kamion: was you asking me to vertify the wide-dhcpd6 sync yesterday such a case? (a sync bug filed by a non uploader)
[06:53] <Kamion> sivan: yes
[06:53] <Kamion> in fact the only such case I've seen for edgy so far
[06:54] <sivan> interesting. I wonder if there will be more to come :)
[06:54] <Keybuk> Kamion: I saw a couple in dapper
[06:54] <Keybuk> my usual first reaction is just to see whether the sync is sane anyway (given they come from a trusted source, and not from code attached to the bug)
[06:55] <Keybuk> otherwise I've asked somebody more appropriate to confirm
[07:00] <LaserJock> via email? ;-)
[07:00] <iwj> Well, how else ?
[07:01] <Kamion> pitti has one of those already ...
[07:01] <Kamion> http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/scripts/requestsync
[07:01] <LaserJock> we could sure use like an Ubuntu dev script repository somewhere
[07:02] <Kamion> perhaps I should link to it from DeveloperResources
[07:03] <iwj> pitti's seems to do stuff with the changelog that mine doesn't.  OTOH mine is a mere 28 lines of sh of which more than half is the template.
[07:07] <Kamion> The changelog stuff is a bit unnecessary TBH. It's not as if we read it ...
[07:08] <Kamion> It might be useful to print it for the requestor's information
[07:08] <Kamion> but it's not necessary in the bug report
[07:08] <Kamion> anyway, feel free to update DR if you reckon yours is better :)
[07:08] <NekoXP_> anyone got a definitive document on changing the usplash logo etc.?
[07:09] <NekoXP_> I found a forum post which says "the png must be 640x400 16 colours" then offers 640x480 24bit pngs for download
[07:09] <Kamion> iwj: your version's output is quite
[07:10] <Kamion> poetically metered
[07:10] <iwj> No, the first one you saw I did by hand.
[07:10] <Kamion> ah, so you did
[07:10] <iwj> Kamion: mine on DR> what, and watch it grow into a thousand-line monstrosity ?
[07:10] <iwj> 51448 is the output from my script.
[07:10] <Kamion> heh
[07:11] <iwj> It would have to grow a command line parser and a usage message and about three safety catches and ...
[07:11] <iwj> Oh, bugger, the ff build has just imploded.
[07:12] <sivang> iwj: Are you waiting for me to do more editing on HomeUserBackup before you give it another review, or has it just not reached 'current' in your review queu?
[07:13] <sivang> iwj: (I've done some more as you proposed since paris, also tried to fix sentences some more)
[07:14] <sivang> iwj: also made sure every use case has an implemetation/design item matching.
[07:14] <iwj> sivang: Err, I don't think I had it down as a todo list item for me specifically.
[07:14] <sivang> iwj: ah, okay, no issue then - then I just need to wait for someone from TB to go over it.
[07:15] <iwj> sivang: Do you want me to pick it up again ?  Probably not until Monday now.
[07:15] <sivang> iwj: Please do, if you can.
[07:16] <iwj> sivang: OK.  Nag me if I don't seem to produce any output on Monday.
[07:17] <iwj> Oh, the bastards:  -DBUILD_ID=2006063018   just to screw up my ccache.
[07:18] <sivang> iwj: I will, tuesday is spec approval dead line, I should get the other one approved as well by then..
[07:23] <bddebian> So what is the process for merges that can be syncs now, just file a sync request?
[07:24] <Kamion> bddebian: yes
[07:24] <sivang> bddebian: so it seems. This has also worked for me during dapper :)
[07:26] <sivang> hmm, portmap's postinst fails to go
[07:26] <fabbione> sivang: see scrollback
[07:27] <sivang> bah, I don't have the scrollback :-/ , the server I use for IRC is hosed
[07:28] <fabbione> sivang: postinst doesn't include the debconf stuff
[07:28] <fabbione> so it fails
[07:31] <bddebian> <Hobbsee mode>Kamion, sync that achilles</Hobbsee mode>
[07:31] <sivang> ah, is anybody working on fixing it already?
[07:32] <Kamion> I'll do it in a moment
[07:33] <bddebian> Kamion: I'm only joking, no rush
[07:33] <Kamion> it's not a problem
[07:40] <ogra> fabbione, so ?
[07:44] <Kamion> portmap breakage fix uploaded
[07:47] <fabbione> ogra: do you call that a victory? ;)
[07:48] <sivang> Kamion: how do you make db_get work from the postinst script? was an environment variable for debconf's bins missing for that to work?
[07:49] <ogra> fabbione, well ... semi final is semi final :)
[07:49] <sivang> Kamion: and thanks for the fix ;)
[07:50] <sivang> ogra , fabbione : is it germeny against italy or something ? :)
[07:50] <ogra> sivang, italy has to survive first :)
[07:50] <LaserJock> mdz: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-dynamic-menus has been ready to be reviewed since last Friday, anything I can do on this end to move it along?
[07:51] <HiddenWolf> LaserJock: you could grovel. ;)
[07:51] <LaserJock> that's sort of what I was trying to do ;-)
[07:52] <HiddenWolf> I figured. ;-)
[07:52] <mdz> LaserJock: as you can see on +specs, there's a backlog of reviews right now.  https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-reviewers are the folks who volunteered to do reviews
[07:53] <LaserJock> mdz: k, just wanted to make sure it wasn't something I'd done
[07:53] <fabbione> sivang: if we survive this evening, yes..
[07:53] <fabbione> ogra: that 's not what german news paper said when we *cough*won*cough* with Australia :P
[07:53] <fabbione> anyway. i need to try to cook and eat something
[07:54] <fabbione> i am starving and tooth starts to wake up from anestacia
[08:04] <Kamion> sivang: '. /usr/share/debconf/confmodule' is required before using db_*; see the debconf-devel(7) man page
[08:04] <Kamion> should generally go at the very top of the script, just below #! etc.
[08:09] <sivang> Kamion: thanks, /me looks at the man page
[08:11] <crimsun> Kamion: RE: #38272, I'll do that now if no one has uploaded it
[08:17] <crimsun> err, crap, please reject xserver-xorg-core
[11:56] <dieman> Kamion: prod