[12:13] <KenSentMe> ompaul: you said yesterday or so that you would help getting a gpg key. Can you help me with it?
[12:14] <ompaul> KenSentMe, I ran a class with it - it is rather late here can you get me when I have energy in my morning or eariler in my evening - I was about to head to bed
[12:14] <ompaul> KenSentMe, I say ran a class
[12:14] <ompaul> heh
[12:14] <ompaul> KenSentMe, lets try it quickly if problems then in the morning?>
[12:15] <ompaul> KenSentMe, join me in #signing-101
[01:11] <adamant1988> hello all
[06:04] <nixternal> hey Rinchen!!!
[06:06] <Rinchen> Howdy Sir
[06:06] <nixternal> how is everything in Colorado tonight?
[06:07] <Rinchen> I was scanning my email list quickly tonight looking for 'eye-popers' and about fell off my chair when suddenly I saw [OOo-Emerngecy!] 
[06:07] <Rinchen> with the correct spelling of course
[06:07] <nixternal> haha
[06:07] <Rinchen> Turns out we have a semi-secret emergency list for bug fixes
[06:07] <nixternal> ahhh
[06:08] <nixternal> whew..close one ey
[06:08] <Rinchen> yeah..I was trying to figure out what that exactly meant
[06:08] <Rinchen> because it was sent by the community leader...
[06:08] <Bilange> Emerngecy, sounds like pregnacy to me :)
[06:09] <nixternal> lol
[07:03] <Rinchen> Nix
[07:03] <Rinchen> and Matt
[07:04] <Rinchen> Do you remember the Cows I sent?
[07:04] <Rinchen> I can beat that now. I soiled myself laughing on the 2nd half of this:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBSLMGNHuGM
[07:06] <Rinchen> I haven't laughed so hard in years
[07:20] <Madpilot> cool publicity: Ubuntu made BoingBoing! http://www.boingboing.net/2006/06/29/mark_pilgrims_list_o.html
[07:22] <Bilange> Rinchen, that was worth the wait :)
[07:23] <Madpilot> Rinchen, sorry for accusing you of spamming - but I've had some very odd things show up in nondescript URLs via IRC... :)
[07:23] <Rinchen> It's all good. Everyone thinks I'm a big jerk anyway :-)
[07:23] <Rinchen> Bil...yeah, I had to go wake up the wife and she left in tears as well
[07:24] <Rinchen> Mad: Flip side to BoingBoing is this article which has me somewhat worried:  http://software.newsforge.com/software/06/06/23/1728205.shtml?tid=150
[07:26] <Rinchen> Bil, what sent me over the edge was the afterburners
[07:29] <Madpilot> Rinchen, hmm, that is a bit worrying... hopefully someone will get RMS to take his meds again, and the FSF will relax a bit
[07:31] <Rinchen> The part that confuses me, especially with Mepis, is ... we use dep and deb-src  so... ????
[07:32] <Rinchen> The sync part that is mentioned is normal parent-child ...just like Debian-Ubuntu
[07:32] <Rinchen> Surprised Turner pushed it though...
[07:32] <Bilange> sorry, i have to go sleep.. but ill sleep with a smile on my face :P
[07:32] <Rinchen> Have a good one!
[07:33] <Bilange> I dont know if this will work for you, but I just ripped the advertised site so you can grab a local copy of this prank: http://dl1.dumpalink.com/media/Kxfjwu7AY5jg/BrBZTYx1FM3J.wmv
[07:34] <Bilange> alright... cheers :)
[07:34] <Rinchen> works!
[07:34] <Rinchen> I don't normally look at these things but I saw a link off digg
[07:34] <Rinchen> and coming from a Ski community it was grand
[08:33] <Rinchen> Hey, what did I miss? THe forums are down with "This forum has been temporarily closed, due to complaints lodged against Jenda Vancura."
[08:35] <Birthday_kgoetz> what forum?
[08:35] <Madpilot> ubuntupeople
[08:35] <Birthday_kgoetz> hm
[08:36] <Rinchen> yeah
[08:37] <Rinchen> Sure there was some complaints on the list (my timing gripe included) but nothing I read would have warranted that msg
[08:37] <Rinchen> or that action
[08:37] <Rinchen> fwiw, Jenda has done a lot of work (hence him gaining full membership recently)
[08:38] <Rinchen> Admittedly I often disagree with him on points but I think it's due to diversity and perspective vs Jenda=Evil
[08:38] <Birthday_kgoetz> i'v seen lots of what he does, and do stuff with him ocasionaly
[08:39] <Birthday_kgoetz> i'm here because he asked me to check it out and help ;)
[08:39] <Rinchen> Yeah, he's one of the motivated folks...hate to dampen that in any manner.
[08:41] <ormiret> I think the forums were taken down before the renewed activity on the ML but I have no idea what caused it
[08:41] <Birthday_kgoetz> they were taken down in the last week, because google has a cache from teh 23rd
[08:42] <Rinchen> The only issue on those forums that I was aware of was the code was downlevel and getting spambotted
[08:43] <Rinchen> I don't mind the forums being close actually....because I think our attention should be more greatly focused on the wiki. My grip is with the reason.
[08:43] <Rinchen> ch/grip/gripe  ...but you got my meaning
[08:44] <ormiret> yeah, would be good to have an explanation of what is going on
[08:45] <Rinchen> Not to exagerate the situation but does that mean if Mad says "Hey, that Rinchen fella is a jerk." ...then that will result in the entire marketing group's forums going offline? :-)
[08:46] <Rinchen> Doesn't seem on the level to me.
[08:46] <Rinchen> but I'm just a helper bee :-)
[08:46] <ormiret> The official stuff should be safe from that- it will only be taken down after the CC says so
[08:46] <ormiret> Who was hosting the forums?
[08:48] <Rinchen> Jenda told me at one point but I have completely forgotten.
[08:48] <Rinchen> It was someone doing our team a favour
[08:48] <Rinchen> ..because of that dispute regarding the official forums...which was then brought up a day or two ago on the list.
[08:55] <Rinchen> lol... did you guys see the pony on the Fridge yet?  Did you click it? :-)
[08:57] <ormiret> :)
[08:58] <ormiret> There's lots of similar things posted to fark but I hadn't seen it on the fridge
[09:16] <jsgotangco> no pony for you
[09:22] <Birthday_kgoetz> Ubuntu is also Yoruba for Atis,(Annona squamosa-Sugar Apple) my favorite fruit. <- from some random website
[09:22] <Rinchen> hmmm
[09:22] <Rinchen> I'm adding that to my definition page
[09:23] <Birthday_kgoetz> ubuntu: sugar apples for human beings :)
[09:23] <Madpilot> "Ubuntu" is also an ancient African word meaning "I am <unprintably> sick of compiling Gentoo" ;)
[09:24] <Birthday_kgoetz> or 'i cant install debian' ;)
[09:24] <Madpilot> possibly that too
[09:24] <nixternal> [02:23]  <Madpilot> "Ubuntu" is also an ancient African word meaning "I am <unprintably> sick of compiling Gentoo" ;)
[09:24] <Rinchen> You know it's not REALLY linux unless you have to spend 6 days compiling openoffice
[09:25] <Birthday_kgoetz> lol
[09:25] <nixternal> i remember in 1994 compiling on a 386 a 1.x kernel w/o a gui...took just over 11 days i think
[09:25] <Madpilot> nixternal, that's not original, I've seen it in a number of places, in different versions :)
[09:25] <nixternal> great Madpilot you ruined a great quote by letting me know its an imposter ;)
[09:26] <Madpilot> I think one of the Canonical guys invented the phrase
[09:27] <Birthday_kgoetz> jdub afaik
[09:28] <Rinchen> hmm I just found another marketing effort for Ubuntu
[09:28] <Rinchen> http://www.funnycoolstuff.com/2005/11/18/sexy-ubuntu-linux-poster/
[09:28] <Rinchen> it came up searching for the imposter phrase
[09:29] <Madpilot> there's a whole series of those posters, mocking a different distro per poster :)
[09:29] <Rinchen> I am sooo out of touch. I guess marriage does that to you.
[09:30] <Madpilot> http://www.flickr.com/photos/glagla/sets/1177687/ <-- top link from a google of "Linux posters" - this isn't all of them, though
[09:31] <Madpilot> the Gentoo one is... well... http://www.flickr.com/photos/glagla/54320162/in/set-1177687/
[09:31] <jsgotangco> this is quite old during warty hehehe
[09:31] <jsgotangco> when we had the half naked people cover
[09:31] <Madpilot> yeah, not new, but still funny :)
[09:31] <jsgotangco> yeah heh
[09:32] <Rinchen> lol ... did you guys hear about Alky the wine replacement???  http://www.alkyproject.com/
[09:32] <Birthday_kgoetz> i think that cover converted more ppl then any other effort :)
[09:33] <jsgotangco> i love the one for debian and gentoo
[09:35] <Rinchen> ok, off to bed. cheers folks.
[09:44] <Birthday_kgoetz> later all
[10:21] <darkmatter_> bahhh
[10:22] <darkmatter_> how are you doing GazzaK?
[10:22] <GazzaK> yeah, i'm okay, home alone till sunday, as partner has buggered off to London :(
[10:23] <darkmatter_> poo
[10:23] <darkmatter_> heh
[05:31] <matthewrevell> mdke; Just replied to your list question about the contact point.
[05:36] <mdke> saw it
[05:36] <mdke> and replied :)
[05:36] <matthewrevell> cool :)
[05:37] <mdke> I haven't caught up on the list at all though...
[05:38] <mdke> seems people had a problem with being removed from the launchpad team? I think that's a pity, there is no need for that to be a big deal
[05:40] <Bigtoe> i would agree that it is no big deal
[05:40] <Bigtoe> if i were idle for an extended period of time i would almost expect to be removed
[05:41] <mdke> I have to say that i have a similar view about this to the view on the team contact
[05:41] <mdke> it's important to identify "why" there is a launchpad team
[05:41] <mdke> launchpad teams work well when they are the basis for access control of some kind, but are terrible for gathering groups of people, because they don't provide a mailing list
[05:43] <matthewrevell> mdke: Obviously I'm new to this but I think LP team offers us visibility within the Ubuntu world and an opportunity to track our projects with Blueprint. Not sure how important the first is, I s'ppose we'll find out :)
[05:43] <mdke> the latter is definitely a good point
[05:43] <matthewrevell> As for being removed from the LP team, I think people were upset that it was discussed on the ML first.
[05:43] <mdke> s/was/wasn't?
[05:44] <matthewrevell> mdke Sorry, yes
[05:44] <mdke> right
[05:44] <mdke> well, that's fair
[05:44] <matthewrevell> Although there were one or two people that were unhappy that it happened at all.
[05:44] <mdke> but when a person is removed, there is a message attached, if that message was relatively tactful, it should have been ok
[05:44] <matthewrevell> I think it's just the teething troubles of a new set of people becoming active in a relatively dormant group.
[05:44] <mdke> yes
[05:45] <mdke> i must say, it's nice to see things kicking off in a positive way
[05:45] <matthewrevell> mdke: I didn't see the message but Jenda mentioned that he had sent something and he's keen to make people feel welcome.
[05:45] <matthewrevell> Marketing's kinda my thing. I mean, I love writing docs but I think I can help more with the marketing stuff at the mo.
[05:46] <matthewrevell> There are loads of great docs people, not so many people have been working on the marketing side.
[05:46] <mdke> hopefully you'll have time for a bit of both *g*
[05:46] <matthewrevell> :-) Yeah, I hope so.
[05:48] <matthewrevell> Doc writing is my day job.
[05:48] <Kamping_Kaiser> :o
[05:49] <Kamping_Kaiser> i'm about to convert Bettong.orgs traning docs to docbook, then i'll have some time again :). its going to take forever :(
[05:52] <matthewrevell> bettong.org?
[05:52] <Kamping_Kaiser> group i do volunteer work with
[05:52] <matthewrevell> Cool.
[05:52] <matthewrevell> I have to admi that I've not used DocBook.
[05:52] <matthewrevell> Looks pretty straightforward tho'.
[05:53] <Kamping_Kaiser> we do some INGOTS desktop training, so i'll be Docbooking the traning materials
[05:53] <Kamping_Kaiser> took me a while to get used to it :)
[08:56] <adamant1988> hello
[09:03] <nixternal> hello adamant1988
[09:03] <adamant1988> how's everyone today?
[09:03] <nixternal> tired...hungry ;)
[09:03] <nixternal> oh..and busy ;)
[09:03] <adamant1988> me too
[09:03] <adamant1988> I work two jobss =\
[09:04] <nixternal> i work two ;) many jobs
[09:04] <nixternal> hehe
[09:04] <adamant1988> haha, are you on the marketing team?
[09:04] <nixternal> actually..i dont' work..who am i kidding
[09:04] <nixternal> yes adamant1988..im here on the team..physically...gone half the time mentally
[09:04] <adamant1988> haha. I was thinking about joining
[09:05] <adamant1988> I don't know what kind of responsibilities I would have though.
[09:05] <nixternal> you would have the responsibilites that you choose..that is the freedom of the Ubuntu community...you take on the responsibilities you can tackle and handle
[09:05] <nixternal> not everybody can do everything, but the smallest contribution equals the largest contribution
[09:06] <adamant1988> well... I have some experience; I thought I might be able to help out some.. (2 accounting classes, 1 marketing class, 1 managment class, 1 economics class, 1 Business law class)
[09:07] <nixternal> hmmm...sounds awfully familiar to the classes i took for my one business degree
[09:07] <adamant1988> probably
[09:07] <adamant1988> they were through a college.
[09:08] <nixternal> marketing OpenSource however is way different then what they teach in college..at least here where i am at
[09:08] <adamant1988> I could imagine
[09:08] <adamant1988> I never bothered with the marketing technique
[09:09] <adamant1988> I free-form all my ideas.   My "style" is to use social and demographic info and then use that to produce a series of ideas and narrow them down to one I think suits my needs best.
[09:09] <adamant1988> Apparently, this takes too long for most classes to bother with.
[09:09] <nixternal> a lot of people say that they don't know anything about marketing, or how they would go about it..however just simple word of mouth advertising is marketing...everyone does some form of marketing everyday, they just don't realise it
[09:10] <nixternal> i know exactly what you mean adamant1988
[09:10] <adamant1988> we started a business in my class once, I was 'kicked' off the marketing team for not working within the project guidelines
[09:11] <nixternal> i wouldn't say that to loudly in here ;)
[09:11] <adamant1988> all I wanted to do was a series of surveys =\
[09:11] <adamant1988> it would have added an extra week, maybe two.  to the 'goal'.
[09:12] <nixternal> that is the nice thing about here...if you want to do surveys do them...present them to the team and then go from there...that is what i like..the FREEDOMS you have here
[09:12] <nixternal> well our goal is to fix bug #1
[09:12] <adamant1988> Windows.
[09:12] <adamant1988> Bug #1 will fix itself shortly.
[09:13] <nixternal> i don't think so..as it seems that bug gets larger and larger every day
[09:13] <adamant1988> I'd say windows has just a few more generations left before it starts losing significant market share.
[09:13] <adamant1988> 2-3 ish.
[09:13] <nixternal> oh ya..without a doubt
[09:14] <adamant1988> It's not because of linux or anything else, although I think linux will fill in the gap.
[09:14] <nixternal> i feel however, before you can get to #1, there needs to be #2, #3 and so on
[09:14] <nixternal> like mac..
[09:14] <adamant1988> Mac won't even be number 1 majority
[09:14] <adamant1988> ever*
[09:15] <nixternal> never will be..but they are larger then us currently
[09:15] <nixternal> in order to get to #1, we have to get past #2 and so on
[09:15] <adamant1988> you have to look at the economy though.  The price of living is going up.  people don't have the money to spend on extras
[09:16] <adamant1988> like oh say... antivirus, malware detectors, liscensing fees etc.
[09:17] <nixternal> oh ya
[09:17] <adamant1988> that'll hurt windows soon, because it's driven by the economy.
[09:17] <nixternal> that is all part of the marketing ploys being used too
[09:17] <nixternal> we just need to figure out a way to utilize them in the correct fashion
[09:18] <adamant1988> YEah, so pretty soon people will be screaming for an alternative.
[09:18] <nixternal> in the Linux world, marketing is its largest downfall
[09:18] <nixternal> as nobody has marketed Linux correctly yet
[09:18] <adamant1988> that's because there isn't a linux world, it has no center.
[09:18] <nixternal> granted red hat did a good job and what not
[09:18] <nixternal> but they are loosing their share
[09:18] <adamant1988> linux's greatest flaw is part of it's strength.
[09:19] <nixternal> i hate the fact that novell took over suse, but it just might help out the Linux community eventually
[09:19] <adamant1988> it's not all under one roof, so there's no 'one voice' for the linux community.
[09:19] <nixternal> i was looking over FC's marketing campaign, and it seems to all fit into the logo..which was kind of neat
[09:20] <adamant1988> and any changes that happen in linux happen slowly as the different sections of linux adopt the changes
[09:21] <nixternal> there are definately a lot of hurdles, but I believe as these communities start getting larger and larger, stronger and stronger, we will some day succeede
[09:22] <adamant1988> Honestly, if the linux communities would get together and create some kind of an organization to speak for linux, and to 'control' linux democratically, think the U.N of linux... you would see a lot of progress quickly.
[09:23] <adamant1988> I don't want to see a single unified distro... that kills linux's charm but IMO there needs to be a center for the linux world....
[09:23] <nixternal> well..i remember back in the 90's that was the whole idea of the "LInux International" organisation with MadDog..but i have no clue whatever happened with it
[09:23] <nixternal> li.org just isn't doing what it used to
[09:23] <adamant1988> even the U.N wasn't created on the first try.
[09:24] <nixternal> i remember when organizations looked at linux as "oh wow, this could be dangerous, we should fear this competition"...granted that was when the PC era really started booming
[09:24] <adamant1988> microsoft is still really afraid.
[09:25] <adamant1988> they once refered to linux as a virus, even.  That propogates itself growing larger every day.
[09:25] <adamant1988> They couldn't have picked a more perfect comparison in my opinion.
[09:25] <nixternal> they still do..
[09:26] <nixternal> but with the release of Vista, it is either going to rule the world, or blow up in their face..and currently the "blowing up in their face" example seems to be proving itself, as the beta's have been horrid
[09:26] <adamant1988> Linux v windows isn't david vs goliath.   It's goliath gets a really nasty bug he can't seem to shake off and it just gets more prominent and deadly as it mutates.
[09:27] <nixternal> but you read over anand, hardocp, maximum pc, cpu, tech edge magazines, which happen to be the hottest pc magazines ever...it is all "we can't wait for vista, ms is god"
[09:27] <nixternal> they all like to say, if you want to live on the dangerous side, try linux...however, i have yet to get a virus, spyware, or malware
[09:28] <nixternal> i haven't had to use ms now in months..i have made a 100% switch
[09:28] <adamant1988> have you ever heard of planned obsolecence ?
[09:28] <nixternal> and a majority of my clients have microsoft networks...and i can still admin them w/o ms
[09:28] <adamant1988> spelling's probably not right.  on that either.
[09:28] <nixternal> han't heard of it, but it sounds good to me ;)
[09:28] <adamant1988> it's the idea behind windows
[09:28] <nixternal> oh ya
[09:29] <nixternal> it is obsolete by the time you get it
[09:29] <nixternal> but...all hardware and software i dont' care by who..is the same way
[09:29] <nixternal> that is good, and that is bad
[09:29] <adamant1988> it becomes obsolete very quickly and you're forced to upgrade.
[09:29] <adamant1988> windows does this in two ways though
[09:29] <adamant1988> small scale and big scale
[09:29] <adamant1988> big scale is a new generation of windows
[09:29] <nixternal> oh ya..and that is because they are in bed with so many manufacturers
[09:29] <adamant1988> and small scale is the registry.
[09:30] <nixternal> they are so far in bed that they got intel so sell cpu's to mac...why???  so mac can run windows
[09:30] <nixternal> but..as we are seeing, Ubuntu on mac ;)
[09:30] <adamant1988> they were smart, they built in a registry that degrades to nearly irreparable conditions.  they make a bundle on ms certifications and repair costs from that.
[09:31] <nixternal> i live in chicago...so mac dropped motorola support..and now i think the layoffs are going to be coming by the thousands soon
[09:31] <adamant1988> apple needs to do something about the prices of their hardware.
[09:31] <nixternal> they have been..they are dropping...as if you look at the specs of a macbook pro...you can't touch it via any other brand
[09:31] <adamant1988> so many people would switch if it weren't for the prices.
[09:32] <nixternal> we tried this out as a matter of fact the other night..and the macbook simply destroyed the others in specs and price combined
[09:32] <adamant1988> and you get that apple 'finish' to the product too.
[09:32] <adamant1988> apple is a great company
[09:32] <nixternal> you can get the processor and memory and hard drive specs right on..but they have that 17" that just kills the competition
[09:32] <adamant1988> but Microsoft can't do anything about them or linux.
[09:33] <nixternal> remember now..microsoft maintains a majority presence on the apple board
[09:33] <adamant1988> makes no difference
[09:33] <adamant1988> no one company owns linux
[09:33] <nixternal> remember old billy stopped them from bankruptcy many years ago
[09:33] <adamant1988> Microsoft can't legally destroy it's last known competition.
[09:33] <nixternal> oh and they won't
[09:34] <nixternal> but i guarantee that soon, you will have an OS choice with mac when you purchase
[09:34] <adamant1988> if macs start running windows be default they will have.
[09:34] <adamant1988> oh yeah, definitely
[09:34] <nixternal> tonyyarusso: where at in chicago are you?
[09:34] <tonyyarusso> nixternal: I'm not; my connection just gets routed through there.
[09:34] <nixternal> ahhh
[09:35] <nixternal> i seen the level3...they used to colo at our datacenter
[09:35] <adamant1988> but yeah... I give linux another 10 years following the cycle of adoption.
[09:35] <adamant1988> then it will be big
[09:36] <adamant1988> if not the biggest.
[09:36] <nixternal> i think with all the recent hype with Ubuntu, Gentoo, FC, and SuSe, it could be sooner then we might imagine
[09:36] <adamant1988> No
[09:36] <nixternal> i mean just the other day they were all spoken on BBCworld, and CNN
[09:36] <adamant1988> it would be
[09:36] <adamant1988> but Ubuntu is held back
[09:36] <tonyyarusso> nixternal: I think Level 3 is in some sort of partnership with Earthlink (my ISP)
[09:36] <adamant1988> which saddens me.
[09:36] <nixternal> ahhh..yes they are tonyyarusso
[09:36] <nixternal> why do you think Ubuntu is held back?
[09:37] <adamant1988> the ideals behind it stop it from being 'highly adoptable'
[09:37] <nixternal> there are some major distrobutions switching to the Ubuntu backend now
[09:37] <adamant1988> at least in the end-user respect
[09:37] <adamant1988> businesses won't care about things like DVDlibCSS
[09:37] <gnomefreak> if linux wants to make it in more homes as desktop use they need to ship with multimedia support and what i mean is they need to be "kings" of multimedia
[09:37] <nixternal> i think the greatest marketing effort that is available for Ubuntu is the entire Edubuntu distrobution for the schools
[09:37] <adamant1988> but end users will want 3d support and multimedia support out of the box.
[09:38] <adamant1988> end users will also want phone support for it
[09:38] <adamant1988> at least.
[09:38] <nixternal> however, in order to work that in, you have to be able to go against the Bill and Melinda Gates Fund..as they seem to be holding the market share for schools..and they are even a non-profit
[09:38] <nixternal> there is phone support for it
[09:38] <gnomefreak> ubuntu being fully free they will never pay to ship with that stuff
[09:38] <tonyyarusso> That's true - I don't really see Ubuntu as being as business-marketable as some others.
[09:38] <tonyyarusso> Home desktops though, sure.
[09:38] <adamant1988> What needs to happen is Ubuntu needs to offer a paid version.
[09:39] <nixternal> you have to remember also, Ubuntu is still somewhat of an infant, with a community that is growing
[09:39] <adamant1988> I don't care if they profit from the sales of the paid version, but it needs to be offered.
[09:39] <nixternal> according to RH, we are the largest growing community, and they are keeping their eye on us for the server market and what not
[09:39] <gnomefreak> doesnt that defeat the "fully free" atitude ubuntu has had from day 1?
[09:39] <nixternal> yup
[09:39] <adamant1988> not if it's an option gnomefreak...
[09:40] <tonyyarusso> Actually, I was talking to a friend and she said she wouldn't mind at all paying for Linux.  The idea being that she's so used to the idea that you have to pay for software that being free isn't really important to her.
[09:40] <nixternal> but then again gnomefreak, the whole free as in freedom, not free as in beer campaign comes to mind..even know i hate it
[09:40] <adamant1988> If Ubuntu says "look, you have to pay for these supports out of the box if you want them pre-installed, otherwise download the free version" then it's not a violation of the ideal
[09:40] <nixternal> i have paid for linux in the past..and would do it again
[09:40] <adamant1988> if ubuntu remains hard-edge free in both respects, I expect linspire to rise.
[09:40] <nixternal> there is something about $60 compared to $300 for an os
[09:40] <gnomefreak> nixternal: ubuntu is free in all ways is what the free in ubuntu is all about
[09:41] <tonyyarusso> Maybe there could be an Ubuntu derivative that is techically separate but is simply Ubuntu + stuff you have to pay for.
[09:41] <adamant1988> but then it wouldn't be serviceable by canonical
[09:41] <tonyyarusso> Maybe they could subcontract through Canonical?
[09:41] <Bigtoe> should it not be the hardware vendor that would be the one to install the os and charge a fee for the work?
[09:41] <nixternal> the options are there for corporate support via canonical..as i believe they have even opened up a new call center in canada just for it
[09:41] <tonyyarusso> As long as it's separate from Ubuntu, it can still be tied to Canonical all right.
[09:42] <adamant1988> yeah, but they are not going to service a 3rd party version of ubuntu
[09:42] <tonyyarusso> Bigtoe: Yes, if we can get hardware vendors installing it.
[09:42] <nixternal> oh no..they will service theirs, and thats it
[09:42] <adamant1988> exactly
[09:42] <adamant1988> that's why canonical needs to offer the paid version of ubuntu to see mass adoption
[09:42] <Bigtoe> i think that would be better than charging for the os
[09:42] <nixternal> Bigtoe: +1
[09:42] <adamant1988> otherwise, again, my money is on linspire.
[09:42] <nixternal> ;)
[09:42] <Bigtoe> local vendor charges for a service then charges for ongoing support
[09:43] <nixternal> me being an OEM, i install ubuntu on a system, I support it
[09:43] <Bigtoe> :)
[09:43] <nixternal> as a matter of fact..i have changed my pricing around to reflect using Ubuntu verses Microsoft
[09:43] <adamant1988> as long as you're certified that's awesome.
[09:44] <nixternal> instead of my typical $85/hr for MS, i charge $50/hr for Linux/Ubuntu support on site...that is if they use my hardware though
[09:44] <tonyyarusso> Okay, now here's another possibility:
[09:44] <nixternal> i don't charge to install the OS at all
[09:44] <nixternal> i just charge services..that way I don't have to charge tax..and 2 i don't have to worry about any types of infringements or law suits ;)
[09:45] <Bigtoe> solid plan there
[09:45] <nixternal> i have gotten 5 clients to switch to Ubuntu in the past week
[09:45] <adamant1988> What I see Ubuntu doing is offering an Ubuntu Home/multimedia/w/e edition.  They'll charge for it and make SURE that you know why they have to charge.  They'll also make sure you know there are alternatives.
[09:45] <tonyyarusso> Contract with some vendors and or just certified techs around the world that people can bring their Ubuntu disk and machine too, have that person charge for installing the multimedia stuff, and after that one time separate fee, it's still the same Ubuntu so servicable from that point on from Canonical.
[09:45] <nixternal> i almost have a huge transfer in the works..as my one client is sick of the virus attacks!!!
[09:45] <nixternal> lpi has the ubuntu certification now..however..i don't trust certifications at all
[09:46] <adamant1988> also I'd like to see Ubuntu pre-installed computers shipping with Cedega, WINE, and Crossover installed by default.
[09:46] <adamant1988> or shipping it in the OS like Xandros does.
[09:46] <nixternal> mcse, cisco, those are all solid..but i have various compTIA certs and they are all jokes...a+ is a joke...look at GeekSquad,,,they are a joke
[09:46] <tonyyarusso> Well, aren't Cedega and/or Crossover subscriptions, not purchase costs?
[09:46] <nixternal> a+ cert...aced both the softeare and hardware test in less then 15 minutes
[09:46] <nixternal> joke
[09:47] <nixternal> network+, linux+, security+...great basic certs
[09:47] <nixternal> however, they are still a joke
[09:47] <adamant1988> well gtg
[09:47] <adamant1988> work.
[09:47] <adamant1988> be back in a bit
[09:47] <nixternal> i think...any cert that you can get w/o hands-on experience is not good...which is what all the compTIA certs are.
[09:47] <nixternal> anyways..im with you..im gonna go get me an ice cream and get back to work
[09:48] <nixternal> great discussion though
[09:48] <nixternal> was fun ;)
[09:48] <Bigtoe> that was a good one