[02:17] <kwwii> sleep now
[02:28] <Who_> troy_s: hi
[02:29] <Who_> Has anyone seen the edgy usplash?
[02:29] <troy_s> you can upgrade to edgy to see it...
[02:29] <troy_s> from what i have seen of it, it was franks minimalist usplash
[02:29] <troy_s> without text etc
[02:29] <Who_> oh, cool :)
[02:29] <troy_s> who, do you have a relatively high resolution version of your logo font?
[02:30] <Who_> the glassy one?
[02:30] <troy_s> i was going to zoom in and attach it to the textures page
[02:30] <troy_s> yes
[02:30] <Who_> it's SVG, so I can do whatever you want!
[02:30] <troy_s> as a sample of a different version of glassy
[02:30] <troy_s> great
[02:30] <troy_s> ok... ship me it.
[02:30] <Who_> I said I'd upload the SVG, actually! oops
[02:30] <Who_> I'll put it on the wiki
[02:31] <troy_s> well i want to do a zoom crop
[02:31] <troy_s> so that the whole logo isn't there...
[02:31] <troy_s> take a look at the textures page and zoom in on a glassy part of it
[02:31] <troy_s> as i did with weidel's logo
[02:31] <Who_> okie, will do :)
[02:31] <troy_s> also -- i updated the specs for wallpaper and borrowed your work on the wiki
[02:31] <Who_> I'll put it straight up on the textures page, if you'd like
[02:31] <troy_s> you can torch that page now if you want.
[02:31] <troy_s> sure...
[02:32] <troy_s> just make sure you zoom in close on the glossyness
[02:32] <troy_s> show only a portion of a few letters
[02:32] <Who_> yea, I saw - great - didn't think to put it on the spec :P
[02:32] <troy_s> laf
[02:32] <troy_s> yah it is going to take some migration of thoughts
[02:32] <troy_s> to really utilize what ubuntu has in place for us
[02:33] <Who_> yea, I'll say
[02:33] <Who_> I posted my first spec today
[02:33] <Who_> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/nautilus-sidebar-extensions
[02:33] <troy_s> we also need someone to step up an dpost henriks request
[02:33] <troy_s> with related wiki page
[02:34] <Who_> oh yea.
[02:34] <troy_s> that's a good looking proposal
[02:35] <Who_> I can do that, perhaps not tonight, but before tomorrow night (it's 2AM here now)
[02:35] <troy_s> the more people actually sit and bang out the ideas into worded form, the more likely people will take notice.
[02:35] <troy_s> good practice
[02:35] <troy_s> at least you are working within the structure.
[02:35] <troy_s> that's positive.
[02:35] <Who_> as in it looks 'pretty' or it looks like a reasonable idea?
[02:35] <troy_s> many people are now, but we really need our team to get in line
[02:35] <troy_s> it is a reasonable idea AND it looks like a good spec
[02:36] <Who_> well :P let's hope others think so :)
[02:36] <troy_s> yes... next step is to make sure people get subscribed to it
[02:36] <troy_s> which means tracking down A) the related developer point-man
[02:36] <troy_s> etc
[02:37] <troy_s> can you dcc me that logo bro?
[02:37] <troy_s> or are you going to 330 crop it to jpg and plop it on the textures?
[02:37] <Who_> I'm not sure that the kind of organisational structure suits all artists - I think the middle ground we have where the part-time canonical employees work closely with Launchpad 'mediating' between it and the team is good
[02:37] <Who_> oh, sorry, it's wikid now
[02:37] <troy_s> that's the plan
[02:37] <troy_s> oh great
[02:38] <troy_s> the reality is that professional development doesn't just 'plop' in from the sky
[02:38] <Who_> I am going to crop it an put it on the textures page, if you're OK with that?
[02:38] <troy_s> totally... its everyone's wiki
[02:38] <troy_s> i prefer it when people step up
[02:38] <troy_s> unfortunately, the open source community has sort of thrived on the 'sole guy steps up and gets job done' but that doesn't work for
[02:38] <troy_s> a homogonized looking product
[02:38] <Who_> SpecLifeCycle
[02:39] <Who_> oops!
[02:39] <troy_s> nor professional looking... it can have elements... but it never really hits 'top notch polished' look and feel because the singular approach doesn't work well in that respect.
[02:39] <Who_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/GlassyLogo?action=AttachFile there is the file if you want it for future ref
[02:39] <troy_s> (aside from maybe picasso, etc... and even those folks subjected themselves to peer review.
[02:39] <Who_> I was looking at SLED and I think that is _very_ polished - how is that developed
[02:39] <troy_s> i believe the best quote i had on that was "Art created in a vaccuum, when exposed to the outside, tends to suck."
[02:40] <troy_s> :)
[02:40] <troy_s> sled?
[02:40] <troy_s> point me to a link?
[02:40] <Who_> I was thinking of writing a little critique of SLED if I can install it - because I genuinely believe it sets the benchmark for great art
[02:40] <troy_s> can you point me?
[02:40] <Who_> lol - good quote!
[02:40] <troy_s> don't get me wrong -- individuals can always create good looking art, but to really elevate it, you need to subject it to polishing and peer review.
[02:40] <troy_s> that's just a simple fact
[02:41] <troy_s> hence why studios spend big bucks on polishing scripts/art/edits/creative blah
[02:41] <troy_s> they take the fundamental idea, and tweak the elements.
[02:41] <Who_> osvids.com has a SLED10 screenshot
[02:41] <troy_s> suse linux?
[02:41] <Who_> yea, final polish makes a big difference
[02:41] <troy_s> yep
[02:41] <troy_s> i know that kwwii was the single art guy at suse for 6 years
[02:41] <troy_s> or so...
[02:41] <Who_> Novell Linux, really, it is different to SUSE in some ways
[02:42] <troy_s> i don't know their structure now.
[02:42] <troy_s> ya, it probably has a team... but i would need to look at the bulk of the material.
[02:42] <Who_> the whole openSUSE thing
[02:42] <troy_s> apple has jonathen ives -- but a very large art team
[02:42] <Who_> well, I know Jimmac developed Gilouche, the splash, walpaper, logon etc, but I bet there was a lot of review
[02:43] <troy_s> probably.
[02:43] <troy_s> again, i wouldn't look to existing open source projects because the aim is to well surpass them
[02:43] <Who_> I know there was review  - his blog posts several 6 or so 'previews' he made and they selected the best bis from all of them
[02:44] <Who_> If you read the reviews on SLED you may change your mind :P Some of them have been _full_ of praise for the polish on SLED10 (to be fair, it has had a long time of polishing!)
[02:44] <troy_s> yes...
[02:44] <troy_s> i was looking at it.
[02:44] <Who_> Does Jimmac ever participate in here?
[02:44] <troy_s> indeed... that is the whole process of polishing... although you can actually start far earlier than that.
[02:44] <troy_s> i don't know, i haven't seen him
[02:44] <troy_s> i know he idles.
[02:45] <troy_s> also, the idea of using incremental building is useful when you need to subject the work to review from 'higher powers' :)
[02:45] <troy_s> being sabdfl and the rest of the CC.
[02:45] <Who_> indeed
[02:45] <troy_s> if someone is going off on a tangent, you can steer it back in the right direction long before too much effort is dumped into it.
[02:45] <Who_> oh, I still need to get a CV up online so I can link you to it. My CV hasn't been uppdated for a while!
[02:45] <troy_s> needless to say, it will take some commitment and time to really get the system cooking.
[02:45] <troy_s> yep
[02:45] <Who_> (link you to it so you can link CC if you think fit)
[02:45] <troy_s> i need as many res's as possible.
[02:46] <troy_s> well i am not filtering anything
[02:46] <troy_s> that isn't my responsibility, nor do i feel comfortable doing it as purely a 'collector'
[02:46] <Who_> Are you adding any notes on participation in the team?
[02:46] <troy_s> no, sabdfl knows full well who is doing work -- and i mean on any level.
[02:46] <Who_> - oh, okay
[02:46] <troy_s> writing specs is as important as kludging out some photoshopped effect laden stuff.
[02:47] <Who_> indeed
[02:47] <troy_s> again though, unless you have watched a creative team take something from genesis to completion, it is hard to see the machine
[02:47] <Who_> I never have, do you work in creative teams?
[02:47] <troy_s> yes i have.
[02:48] <troy_s> and do on a regular basis.
[02:48] <troy_s> also have a degree in art, which doesn't mean i am a good artist, but it does mean that i am committed to the realm professionally enough to spend five years studying it.
[02:49] <troy_s> and on the upside, i have watched several different forms of creative teams get their work done, so i have a pretty good idea how similar approaches work etc.
[02:50] <troy_s> did you upload that closeup yet?
[02:50] <troy_s> who_?
[02:51] <Who_> just done it
[02:51] <Who_> looks worse close up :S
[02:51] <troy_s> ???
[02:52] <troy_s> looks good, but i would include more of the b so that you can see the curvature
[02:52] <troy_s> i think you did a very darn good job on that actually.
[02:53] <Who_> thanks :)
[02:53] <troy_s> but again, if you could zoom out just a bit so that we get an idea of the glassy curvature
[02:53] <Who_> The ubuntu logo looks really good on black, I know I keep saying it, but can we _do_ anything about it
[02:53] <troy_s> and slide offset over a smidge...
[02:53] <troy_s> with me?
[02:53] <Who_> I think I may just add another one that is more zoomed out...?
[02:53] <troy_s> no... we are brown
[02:54] <troy_s> just replace that one a
[02:54] <troy_s> it is fine, just zoom out a little to reveal that highlight curve
[02:54] <Who_> *Dark* brown...? :P. I know we gotta stay Human ;)
[02:54] <troy_s> brown is ok though... it is quite a challenge and while most go 'uck brown' pretty sure that a lot of people went "you are going to put a swoosh on your stuff with NO text?!?!?!?!"
[02:55] <troy_s> sometimes things take a bit of execution and time to become distinctive ;)
[02:55] <troy_s> i think sabdfl likes the darker brown tone
[02:55] <troy_s> i personally think we need to bump it up a semi-tone or so to keep it in the middle grey zone (when desated)
[02:55] <Who_> I like _nice_ browns - earthy ones
[02:56] <Who_> one of my housemates said "The problem with Ubuntu, is that of all the 16 million colours my monitor can display, they choose to use the ones that look _most like excrement_" :P
[02:56] <troy_s> well like i said, once we get into the 2nd part of proposals... the tonal values should be clearer
[02:56] <troy_s> that's just an aesthetic judgement.  culturally it is irrelevant.
[02:57] <troy_s> and considering that ubuntu caters to a global client base, we need to see the bigger picture.
[02:57] <Who_> yea, it was light hearted, for sure!
[02:57] <Who_> Check the tectures page, see if the new one is better
[02:58] <troy_s> i do agree though... a slightly lighter version would help.
[02:58] <troy_s> the darks hide the icon outlines and such
[02:58] <troy_s> not quite into oranges though
[02:58] <Who_> whoa. Wait till I've made it 330x330 again. Oops
[02:58] <troy_s> laf
[02:58] <troy_s> okie
[03:00] <Who_> right, spectrum is green (you watched Captain Scarlet?) - texture resized
[03:01] <troy_s> okie
[03:01] <troy_s> that's good... you get a good sense of the curvature.
[03:01] <troy_s> those nebula might be interesting for pursuing the 'magical' look of the breezy desktop
[03:01] <troy_s> or was it hoary?
[03:01] <troy_s> can't remember
[03:02] <troy_s> its good though, there are some very talented people involved... i have high hopes for this cycle.
[03:03] <troy_s> it might be good to pair up the ubuntu brown palette with a colour gradient suggestion on something you have made
[03:03] <troy_s> with me?
[03:06] <Who_> what's the 'with me?' about?
[03:07] <Who_> the gradient suggestion - I.E put some Human browns behind the logo?
[03:07] <Who_> Henrik's Spec, status = Braindump is OK?
[03:08] <Who_> and am I the drafter, or do we leave that to whoever wants to do the work?
[03:14] <Who_> troy_s:?
[03:15] <troy_s> as in are you following me :)
[03:15] <troy_s> well if you want to take the wallpaper into a certain hue, i would provide the sample against the default ubuntu palette... i believe frank is trying to take the whole set of art into that spectrum
[03:17] <Who_> I see. I'll have a look
[03:17] <Who_> and about the spec - shoudl I set Henrik as the aprover, or just leave all the 'people' spaces blank?
[03:21] <troy_s> ubuntu-art so that it lists within our domain for now
[03:21] <troy_s> thanks for doing that by the way, who
[03:22] <Who_> oh, I need to edit it now :S. I didn't know I could set 'ubuntu-art as a person!
[03:23] <Who_> (in fact, I did, I just didn't  twig that person=team)
[03:23] <Who_> well, I probably wouldn't've thought to if you hadn't suggested it!
[03:52] <Who_> wow. I sure have got some ugly stuff going on here
[03:52] <jsgotangco> good morning
[03:53] <Who_> It is morning here
[03:53] <Who_> but I haven't slept yet :P
[03:53] <Who_> (only 3 AM - to be fair)
[03:54] <Who_> I am really struggling to do glassy and brown!
[03:56] <Who_> jsgotangco: I see you hang out in ubuntu-devel too - are you a developer (yes, it would seem obvious, but I am not, and I sometimes listen in to devel, and I do read the devel list....)
[03:57] <jsgotangco> yes im community, i mostly work on gnome-app-install, update-manager and edubuntu
[03:58] <jsgotangco> also documentation
[03:59] <Who_> cool :)
[04:00] <Who_> you wouldn't happen to have read any specs recently, would you, maybe, ones like this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NautilusSidebarExtensions
[04:00] <Who_> :P
[04:08] <troy_s> subtle
[04:10] <jsgotangco> are you sure that's workable in 4 months
[04:12] <troy_s> what time is it there jsgotangco
[04:12] <jsgotangco> 10am
[04:13] <troy_s> eek
[04:15] <Who_> jsgotangco: I don't know - I haven't any experience of how fast OS projects progress, and I don't really know how much work is involved. I think the bits in Nautilus may be doable in 4 months, but maybe not the engines....
[04:15] <Who_> like I said - I'm not experienced :)
[04:16] <jsgotangco> well you can start doing stuff now but not target to edgy, but edgy+1 so you have at least 10 months worth of time
[04:18] <Who_> I'm not going to be able to get far on my own... Hopefully some people will like the idea... all my coding experience is C# on Windows, and even then it's only 9 months of work...
[04:20] <jsgotangco> ahh yes
[04:20] <jsgotangco> but i suggest working this on upstream instead
[04:20] <jsgotangco> seems natural as an upstream project
[04:21] <jsgotangco> alright im out, we're heading for imax today =)
[04:21] <jsgotangco> se eya
[04:25] <troy_s> it looks ok
[04:25] <troy_s> wrong window for you Who_
[04:25] <Who_> troy_s: yea, I know
[04:25] <troy_s> i think it is a great effort really...
[04:26] <Who_> I didn't know you were lurking in -dvel too - rather handy actually cos it makes me look less stupid :P
[04:26] <troy_s> you are really getting a handle on the pondering
[04:26] <troy_s> its weird that the compression or whatever it is
[04:26] <Who_> pondering to bed for me now
[04:26] <troy_s> gave it a sort of cool texture
[04:27] <Who_> yea, I dunno what it is
[04:27] <troy_s> veryslick
[04:28] <troy_s> ok get some sleep
[04:28] <Who_> really, I liked it when it was smooth and blue :P
[04:28] <Who_> see ya
[05:13] <coz_> hello all
[06:52] <troy_s> heyas guys
[06:52] <troy_s> how you doing?
[06:52] <troy_s> bersace, madpilot
[06:52] <bersace> hello troy_s
[06:52] <Madpilot> hi
[06:55] <troy_s> how's gnomescan going bersace?
[06:55] <bersace> very good
[06:38] <troy_s> greetz
[11:53] <troy_s> who lives?
[11:55] <mhb> me
[11:55] <mhb> :o)
[11:55] <mhb> not that I'm that important :o)