[12:08] <bddebian> Heya
[01:28] <anibal> mdz: ping
[01:46] <zul> heh...i like the new usplash in edgy
[01:48] <_ion> Very pretty. :-)
[01:56] <zul> well at least the new grub works 
[02:02] <troy_s> is scott usplash man?
[03:42] <jsgotangco> good morning
[03:42] <zul> evening
[04:11] <Hobbsee> morning all
[04:16] <Who_> What is this 'morning' you talk of :P I see only darkness out my window
[04:16] <jsgotangco> Who_: don't blame us if we live in the future :P
[04:16] <bddebian> heh
[04:17] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:18] <Hobbsee> @time sydney
[04:18] <Ubugtu> Current time in Australia/Sydney: July 01 2006, 12:18:03
[04:18] <Hobbsee> almost morning :P ^
[04:18] <bddebian> @time Philadelphia
[04:18] <bddebian> hehe
[04:18] <bddebian> @time Eastern
[04:18] <Ubugtu> Current time in Canada/Eastern: June 30 2006, 22:18:41
[04:19] <Hobbsee> you've still got plenty of time to stay up!
[04:19] <LaserJock> hmm, somethings fishy there bddebian ;-)
[04:25] <Who_> troy_s: what do you think of the brown monstrosity I just posted to the list?
[04:25] <Hobbsee> Who_: hehe, link?
[04:26] <profoX`> @time Brussels
[04:26] <Ubugtu> Current time in Europe/Brussels: July 01 2006, 04:26:03
[04:27] <Who_> Hobbsee: If you really want to see it, it's here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/BrownBubbles - I actually meant to post it to troy in ubuntu-artwork :S
[04:28] <Hobbsee> hehe oh dear
[04:28] <_ion> Noooooooo (fade)
[04:29] <_ion> Not the "crystal" balls, or whatever they're called.
[04:30] <RadiantFire> lol, i vastly prefer the blue version :-)
[04:32] <anibal> @time bogota
[04:32] <Ubugtu> Current time in America/Bogota: June 30 2006, 21:32:47
[04:33] <anibal> @time miami
[04:33] <Hobbsee> hi anibal 
[04:33] <anibal> Hobbsee: hello
[04:34] <anibal> @time caracas
[04:34] <Ubugtu> Current time in America/Caracas: June 30 2006, 22:34:05
[04:34] <anibal> @time buenos aires
[04:36] <LaserJock> hmm, so bogota and caracas are under America and Philly is under Canada? :-)
[04:37] <anibal> @time buenos_aires
[04:37] <Ubugtu> Current time in America/Argentina/Buenos_Aires: June 30 2006, 23:37:09
[04:37] <anibal> LaserJock: america is from tierra del fuego to alaska :)
[04:37] <bddebian> Ack, Nooo, we've been invaded by Canukistan..
[04:38] <anibal> LaserJock: the USA is just one of many countries in the continent calle america :)
[04:39] <LaserJock> well sure
[04:39] <LaserJock> but Philly isn't in Canada so I was thinking maybe Caracas would be in Anatartica or something ;-)
[04:39] <zul> we dont want philly you can have her
[04:40] <anibal> LaserJock: I see your point now :)
[06:51] <Hobbsee> ogra: ping?
[07:00] <Hobbsee> ogra: i've just commented a bug report about those screensavers - will try to fix them once and for all later.  seeing as i reformatted yesterday, it seemed like a good time to test :P
[07:02] <Hobbsee> and it's annoying me, and i want it fixed.
[11:05] <azeem> W 31
[11:05] <azeem> sorry
[11:28] <sivang> re all
[11:28] <sivang> hmm, good to have the muse back
[11:30] <sivang> wops, forgot to run screen, bbl
[11:47] <sivang> hey raphink , what's cracking? :)
[11:47] <raphink> hi sivang
[12:01] <Kamion> dieman: pong
[12:19] <thuglife> hi
[12:19] <thuglife> is here anyone working on the ia64 port? it seems that lamont is quiet idle
[12:37] <pitti> Hello
[12:55] <Kamion> zul: thanks for the grub merge, but please use the -v<last_version_in_Ubuntu> option to debuild
[12:55] <Kamion> so that the .changes file is more useful
[12:57] <zul> no problem
[12:57] <zul> ...now to enjoy canada day
[12:57] <sivang> Kamion: I am going to try culmus, okay?
[12:57] <sivang> (merge)
[01:03] <Kamion> sivang: sure, though I'd expect it to be a sync. If it isn't a sync yet, then perhaps you should leave it until after the X merge has happened and then it will be a sync
[01:05] <sivang> Kamion: I see, so you assume that if it
[01:05] <sivang> crap, CR in error
[01:05] <sivang> Kamion: so you assume it conflicted due to changes in X font conf , and after X merge from debian will be over, then we could just sync up the package without hassle?
[01:06] <Kamion> sivang: yes
[01:06] <Kamion> well, I don't assume, I checked
[01:08] <pygi> sivang, , poke? :)
[01:08] <sivang> Kamion: ah :) okay, I'll se e other packages where I can help
[01:08] <sivang> pygi: hi :)
[01:09] <pygi> sivang, hey, hey :)
[01:09] <pygi> sivang, do we want py bindings against trunk or stable release of "Dar" stuff?
[01:09] <pygi> I suppose stable one?
[01:11] <sivang> pygi: against the version in sid
[01:12] <sivang> pygi: since this is going to be synced everntually, if not already so
[01:12] <pygi> sivang, oki, that's the most important work for Edgy
[01:12] <sivang> pygi: are you working on them ?
[01:12] <pygi> sivang, not yet, but will do :)
[01:12] <pygi> sivang, if you agree :P
[01:13] <sivang> pygi: ofcourse I do :p
[01:13] <sivang> pygi: does it seem complicatd to achieve ?
[01:14] <pygi> sivang, haven't looked really yet, but it shouldn't be
[01:14] <pygi> Even if it is, it's better if we do it then use that SWIG stuff :P
[01:14] <sivang> pygi: we need to pay attention to propogate nicely the complex C++ exception system it has
[01:14] <pygi> sivang, ofcourse, no worries :)
[01:18] <sivang> pygi: If you are going to do it, it's gonna need to be completed quickly for edgy. So we could give it proper testing. If not, then we'd better concentrate on making the current support (that uses spawning dar as a subprocss) more robust and give it as much testing as we can before release.
[01:18] <pygi> sivang, it can be done in let's say a month? (given my current free time allocation :P)
[01:22] <pygi_> sivang, sorry, dc 
[01:22] <pygi_> so what do you think?
[01:23] <sivang> pygi: let see :) Feature Freeze is in September 7th , and I see there almost 2 months to the release from there
[01:24] <pygi> sivang, that should be good I believe
[01:25] <\sh> moins
[01:25] <pygi> hey \sh
[01:25] <sivang> pygi: yes, if you need only one month to come up with it, it seems alright :) would give us enough time for testing hopefully.
[01:26] <pygi> sivang, I can be sure next week, Wednesday
[01:27] <pygi> then all should crystalize :P
[01:27] <sivang> pygi: however, We'll need to agree on an "interface" between the backend and the front end, since right now there is some ugly hack I am using to make sure the front end can monitor the progress of the backend...
[01:27] <sivang> pygi: this involves passing the pty fd where dar is runnign to gnome.io_watch 
[01:28] <pygi> sivang, agreed, write it on TODO :P
[01:28] <sivang> pygi: It basically breaks the seperation between the backend and the front end, but if we have python dar bindings then this should change and we need to adjust the front ends.
[01:30] <sivang> pygi: I think I have it there somewhere in the TODO
[01:30] <pygi> sivang, oki, care to mail me?
[01:30] <sivang> pygi: btw, the branch is now public and member of ubuntu-dev team, so any universe uploader can commit changs
[01:30] <pygi> sivang, you do understand I am not a universe uploader? :P
[01:33] <pygi> sivang, but you can commit changes, that's good :)
[01:33] <sivang> pygi: right :)
[01:33] <sivang> I will merge from you then
[01:34] <pygi> Dar bindings should be packaged, so you can sponsor that upload as well :P
[01:34] <pygi> (if package is good :P)
[01:36] <sivang> pygi: sure
[01:45] <sivang> pygi: I will also check about the dar bindings
[01:45] <pygi> sivang, doki oki
[02:10] <china> :)
[02:12] <china> i want to learn network programming in linux ,can some on tell me what i should to learn? is any good resource for learn it? thanks 
[02:13] <azeem> china: please ask somewhere else
[02:13] <china> azeem : why?
[04:43] <bSON> hi
[04:47] <sivang> hmmm
[04:47] <sivang> cdrecord: Operation not permitted. Cannot send SCSI cmd via ioctl
[04:51] <bSON> what do the ubuntu developers think about tighter integration of beagle into the ubuntu desktop?
[04:52] <bSON> (e.g., adding beagle and mono to the ubuntu desktop core)
[05:04] <bSON> nothing?
[05:05] <jsgotangco> hey BenC
[05:10] <BenC> hello
[05:11] <neuralis> bSON: it's been in the works for a while
[05:12] <bSON> neuralis: is there a spec about that?
[05:19] <neuralis> bSON: not one i remember off the top of my head; check the list on lp
[05:19] <neuralis> bSON: wouldn't be for edgy, if there was one
[05:20] <bSON> but i thought edgy would be a bleeding-edge build, open for new features and experiments
[05:22] <dieman> Kamion: around?
[05:22] <neuralis> bSON: then better get a spec written. you have until jul 6 to get it approved.
[05:23] <dieman> whats the best way to get more input on a spec if you didn't get a chance at uds?
[05:23] <dieman> uds-p, rather
[05:23] <bSON> neuralis: oh...
[05:23] <dieman> just email -devel asking for comments?
[05:23] <neuralis> dieman: that works.
[05:24] <dieman> ok
[05:30] <Kamion> dieman: briefly
[05:32] <Kamion> sorry about the bugmail spam I caused by subscribing ubuntu-dev to bug 51347 for a short period; I'm apparently not really awake yet despite it being mid-afternoon
[05:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 51347 in librpcsecgss "[Edgy MoM]  Please sync librpcsecgss 0.13-1from Debian sid" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/51347
[05:33] <dieman> Kamion: i was wondering, i looked briefly but didn't want to shoot you a duplicate bug, is there already a bug for cases when a usb-storage device grabs sda,sdb,etc before ahci or another sata driver gets loaded in d-i?
[05:34] <Kamion> dieman: yeah
[05:34] <dieman> ok
[05:34] <dieman> hit that one yesterday 
[05:34] <dieman> i was like 'sdc'?!
[05:34] <Kamion> don't know the bug number offhand but I've certainly had discussions about it
[05:34] <dieman> ok
[05:34] <Kamion> module load order in hw-detect is wrong
[05:34] <dieman> yah
[05:35] <dieman> that was it, thanks :0
[05:35] <dieman> :)
[06:05] <bSON> neuralis: must I let someone else write a spec, or can I directly add a spec?
[06:09] <Chipzz> why doesn't ubuntu use it as a default?
[06:09] <neuralis> bSON: you can definitely write it yourself
[06:10] <danny> where I find a clear and simple guide to make a deb file from a normal source tarball
[06:10] <neuralis> danny: try http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
[06:10] <Chipzz> danny: I don't think there is such a thing as "an easy way to create a deb"
[06:11] <Chipzz> but the help system of ubuntu provides some pointers
[06:11] <neuralis> danny: that said, as with any packaging system, creating a debian package is not a matter of following a list of bullet-point steps.
[06:12] <Chipzz> danny: start help, and click on ""
[06:12] <Chipzz>     Ubuntu Packaging Guide
[06:14] <sivang> danny: the ubuntu packaging guide is a good start, it rather tries to bring in all info into one source
[06:14] <danny> ok... this guide I know allready... thanks.... 
[06:15] <Chipzz> danny: there are also multiple choices to make packaging either
[06:15] <Chipzz> danny: there is dh_make, which will generate a basic debian/rules for you, which you can then edit
[06:16] <Chipzz> there is dbs, and cdbs, which rely on makefile snippets to make stuff easier (but they do add an extra build-dependency)
[06:16] <neuralis> cdbs is evil.
[06:17] <Chipzz> neuralis: I try to avoid it to, but why do you think it's evil?
[06:18] <danny> there is a package version 1.2.5 from libdvdcss, the stable sources are 1.2.9. I have problems with this lib, so I thought about building a verion 1.2.9 deb file, so apt i able to keep tracking my system changes...
[06:18] <neuralis> Chipzz: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/06/msg00467.html
[06:21] <bSON> neuralis: but which status should i select? braindump?
[06:22] <neuralis> drafting while you're working on it
[06:23] <neuralis> when you're finished drafting, set it to 'review' to ask for a review
[06:23] <bSON> ok
[06:27] <bSON> neuralis: there is already a very shortly described spec beagle-integration marked as braindump. can i extend the wiki page and ask for review again?
[06:28] <neuralis> bSON: sure, go for it
[06:28] <bSON> good
[06:28] <neuralis> bSON: but it might make most sense to grab one of the mono guys and just ask what the status is
[06:28] <bSON> good idea
[06:28] <neuralis> bSON: the developers are picking their own targets for this release cycle, so unless you're prepared to do whatever work is necessary..
[06:31] <bSON> yeah... but many things are already implemented, the first issue is if we are willing to make beagle (and thus mono) part of ubuntu-desktop, so the beagle search capabilities are usable by default
[06:31] <bSON> and i'm ready to do some work if necessary
[06:31] <lifeless> I think this is something upstream need to move on
[06:31] <giftnudel> bSON: it might be that it gets dropped because of the size mono + beagle will take on the install cd
[06:33] <neuralis> giftnudel: getting beagle in is something that's been discussed for a long time; i believe we were blocking on beagle maturing
[06:33] <bSON> yeah, I already thought about that too...
[06:33] <giftnudel> of course, I still think size matters
[06:33] <bSON> and i think some people don't like the idea of mono being in the ubuntu gnome desktop by default
[06:36] <bSON> because mono apps need more ram and stuff
[06:36] <_ion> In a way it i wouldn't like it, but if some killer apps use it, it would be acceptable. E.g. tomboy rules (i use it myself) and so will beagle, as soon as it matures enough. I've also heard good things about f-sport, but i don't own a camera.
[06:36] <_ion> s/sport/spot/
[06:37] <_ion> Sigh, s/it // :-)
[06:37] <neuralis> _ion: you don't need a camera for f-spot; it'll just manage a bunch of pictures you throw at it
[06:37] <_ion> neuralis: Yeah, but i don't have a bunch of pictures to manage. :-)
[06:37] <bSON> i think that's a reason why one proposed soc2006 project was "A complete beagle-like desktop search app that doesn't use mono, but any of C, Ruby, Python or Perl as a programming language"...
[06:38] <bSON> and the same for a "f-spot like application"
[06:39] <neuralis> bSON: there's a thread right now on -devel about using tracker.
[06:39] <neuralis> bSON: see also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntegratedDesktopSearch
[06:39] <_ion> On the other hand, if mono were installed but _not loaded_ by default, it wouldn't hurt at all. 
[06:39] <bSON> _ion: normally mono is only loaded if you call up a mono app
[06:40] <_ion> Although then users would have to add things like tomboy to their panels manually.
[06:40] <bSON> there's no mono daemon or such, afaik
[06:40] <_ion> (I was thinking hypothetically that maybe tomboy would be a part of the default desktop.)
[06:42] <bSON> anyway, i would find beagle in ubuntu great, a much better desktop experience - windows can't beat that (i've seen no similair feature in my installed windows vista beta 2)
[06:44] <_ion> As long as it doesn't make the whole system crawl by eating all the available memory and then some. :-)
[06:45] <bSON> _ion: :) well it has been done in SLED 10, so i guess it isn't too much of a deal
[06:46] <bSON> (though i didn't test the distro)
[06:46] <phanatic> mdz: ping
[06:50] <KaiL> hmm
[06:51] <KaiL> Stunde gepennt, aber kein Tor verpennt
[06:51] <KaiL> ops, wrong window
[06:53] <bSON> KaiL: falsche sprache ;)
[06:54] <KaiL> that too
[07:11] <sladen> mjg59: what changes went in between -23 and -25 that are likely to have killed Resume?
[07:12] <sladen> Kamion: thanks for xara
[07:13] <jsgotangco> nice!
[07:14] <sivang> sladen: hey Paul
[07:19] <sladen> hello sivang, riddell is just talking about Kubuntu and KDE 4
[07:21] <sivang> sladen: where are you guys?
[08:02] <sivang> laters folks