[06:31] <mgalvin> anyone around?
[06:37] <LaserJock> kinda
[06:39] <mgalvin> hey LaserJock, i was just looking for another set of eyes to review UWN #5 before i send it out if you have tim
[06:39] <mgalvin> time
[06:43] <nixternal> if you don't LaserJock i can look at it
[06:44] <LaserJock> what's the URL?
[06:44] <nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue5
[06:46] <mgalvin> i just finished some last minute tweaks so it should be mostly the finial version, i am just half asleep now and more eyes help :)
[06:46] <nixternal> 4 projects for the marketing team..but you won't see the 4th until it is done..and that is the wiki makeover ;)
[06:47] <mgalvin> :)
[06:47] <mgalvin> jenda wrote that bit anyway
[06:47] <nixternal> mgalvin: you will get an earload of jenda doesn't make it in there for making Ubuntu Member
[06:47] <nixternal> hahahaha
[06:48] <nixternal> oh wow...cds and stickers and i haven't gotten mine yet...now i am really mad ;)
[06:49] <mgalvin> :) i know, i can't wait till mine get here
[06:50] <nixternal> where are you from mgalvin?
[06:51] <LaserJock> I got mine in Paris ;-)
[06:52] <nixternal> i just got word from 1, yes 1 person in the US, he got his Kubuntu stickers...the day shipit opened i put my stuff in..and i still haven't gotten anything...plus this guy is the first in the US that i know of
[06:53] <LaserJock> heh
[06:53] <nixternal> not stickers
[06:53] <nixternal> cd's
[06:53] <nixternal> and he said his didn't come with stickers
[06:55] <nixternal> cosmolax: those t-shirts are sweet!!!
[06:55] <Plug_> mgalvin: do you want random small grammatical edits, like inserting commas?
[06:55] <mgalvin> Plug_: sure, go for it
[06:56] <mgalvin> thanks for you help guys, let me know when your done son i can send it out
[06:56] <mgalvin> ug, i need sleep, u know what i mean 
[06:57] <nixternal> i know what you mean
[06:57] <nixternal> i need ice cream
[06:57] <nixternal> ;)
[06:57] <Plug_> I perhaps wouldnt quote Mark on the artists appointments
[06:57] <Plug_> but rewrite it in a standard journalistic fashion
[06:59] <mgalvin> Plug_: you can if you want to do it quickly, i just stuck it there like that for now b/c its 1am (didn't have much free time this weekend)
[06:59] <Plug_> Sure.
[07:00] <mgalvin> sweet thanks
[07:00] <Plug_> When it reports "Status of sending notification mails:", has it actually emailled all those people about the change?
[07:00] <mgalvin> yes
[07:01] <mgalvin> it emails a diff
[07:02] <Plug_> must make for a fun mailbox for those guys. :)
[07:02] <Plug_> Finished the edits.
[07:04] <Plug_> Should someone be putting the UWNs on the fridge?
[07:05] <mgalvin> yea, i have to let them know
[07:05] <mgalvin> i am going to mail it to ubuntu-news for now
[07:05] <mgalvin> thanks guys
[07:05] <mgalvin> i am gonna send it out now
[07:07] <Plug_> no problem.
[07:33] <cosmolax> nixternal: thanks. :)
[09:29] <Madpilot> how can someone sign up @ LP and not provide a visible email address?
[10:01] <mdke> Madpilot: select "hide my email address" under "Personal Details"
[10:01] <mdke> morning everyone
[10:01] <Madpilot> mdke, ah, that would explain it
[10:02] <mdke> Madpilot: also, people who get added to launchpad automatically have hidden addresses by default I think
[10:02] <Madpilot> on w.u.c, TrevorPounds has been doing some stuff that really belongs over on huc/c/, and he's got no wiki page & no visible email addy in LP
[10:03] <mdke> how annoying
[10:03] <Madpilot> yeah
[10:03] <Madpilot> it's not bad work, but some of it is duplicating stuff that already exists, and it's all in the wrong wiki
[10:08] <mdke> god the main wiki is so slow still
[06:57] <froud> Some here may disagree on this point. But I think adding a link to a commercial   Ubuntu publication from the Help menu in a Free OS is not very tasteful and smacks of marketing and promotion. It's in bad taste if you ask me. Just my 2 cents.
[06:59] <tonyyarusso> I can see the reasoning for it, but I think I might agree with that one.  Might depend - is it being sold for cost or at a profit?
[06:59] <froud> tonyyarusso: It's the intent that strikes me as out of place
[07:00] <froud> Might I just add that I have great respect for the authors
[07:01] <mdke> I think it harms the help menu, but to be fair, it isn't a link to a commercial publication
[07:01] <mdke> it's a link to extracts which are provided in the default installation under a free licence
[07:01] <tonyyarusso> If they're saying, "hey, there's this other thing available, but it was expensive to make so we're charging to recover costs", I don't mind that.  But if it's "we put this thing together as a capital venture and then added a link to everyone's menu" it's not as cool.
[07:02] <froud> tonyyarusso: I think this opens the doors to a slippery slop where if one publication can do it, then so all must be afforded the same opportunity. In which case other books on Ubuntu Books must be afforded the same opportunity
[07:02] <tonyyarusso> mdke: Okay, that's true.  A bit of a technical point though it seems ultimately.
[07:02] <mdke> I don't think so
[07:03] <mdke> there's a big difference between providing free documentation with the operating system and advertising a commercial publication
[07:03] <froud> mdke it says "to purchase a copy visit http://....."
[07:03] <mdke> froud: there is nothing wrong with that dude
[07:03] <mdke> the reason for the inclusion was to promote books which are released under free licences
[07:03] <mdke> I definitely disagree with having it in the help menu
[07:04] <mdke> I think it confuses users
[07:04] <mdke> but I know for a fact that its inclusion wasn't based on commercial reasons
[07:04] <tonyyarusso> mdke: Okay, that helps some.  Do you have an alternative placement suggestion?  Installed at all, or just ubuntu.com, other?
[07:04] <froud> Hmmm, does that mean that I will be able t promote the ECDL/ICDL stuff we develop under free license and sell for a profit http://www.inwords.co.za/content/view/103/68/
[07:05] <mdke> froud: you can promote it, sure
[07:05] <froud> mdke: the idea to more info is good
[07:05] <froud> but I think it should point to a page on ubuntulinux.org
[07:05] <mdke> tonyyarusso: I think it should be simply in example content
[07:05] <froud> one where a collection of works can be dislayed
[07:05] <tonyyarusso> mdke: That sounds about right to me.  I'll second that.
[07:07] <froud> anyway, just thought I would mention it. As Isay, the idea is good, but should provide equal oportunity to equivalent works :-)
[07:09] <froud> mdke: is anyone working on docs for the menu editor?
[07:09] <mdke> i don't think there are any
[07:09] <mdke> there are certainly no Ubuntu books under a free licence that I am aware of, and no others which are both under a free licence and supported by Canonical
[07:10] <froud> mdke: is it only for Free works
[07:10] <froud> and only those supported by Canonical?
[07:10] <mdke> sure, that was a big reason for including it in the distribution
[07:11] <froud> So provided the license is free it is OK, the src does not have to be available
[07:12] <mdke> there is no rule about this
[07:12] <mdke> they just included the official book, that's it. They're not setting any precedents
[07:12] <froud> perhaps include http://www.linux-books.us/ubuntu_0002.php
[07:14] <froud> mdke: I think it should point to a list of ubuntu books, free or not
[07:14] <froud> for example http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/103-7912192-3174229?%5Fencoding=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=stripbooks%3Arelevance-above&field-keywords=Ubuntu
[07:15] <froud> But I must say I love the idea of the help menu having various options
[07:15] <mdke> froud: ok, but that's not what it is there for.
[07:16] <mdke> I have to say I disagree about the help menu
[07:16] <mdke> the help menu having various options is good, but they shouldn't have more than one option of documentation, otherwise users get confused.
[07:16] <froud> mdke: thinking like a user now. Would I really care what it is there for. All I want is to get more information
[07:17] <mdke> yeah, and if you have three different places, as a user, how do you know which to try?
[07:17] <froud> mdke: I can't see it confusing people if the Online Help option points direct to the online ubuntu help
[07:17] <mdke> you'll see it if you think about my question
[07:17] <froud> mdke: Books on Ubuntu instead of eXCERPT FROM bOOK
[07:18] <froud> mdke: it's only my personal impression
[07:19] <froud> but I found the single menu just demonstrated that there are many help options available, inlcuding commercial and comunity support
[07:20] <froud> To me it was clear when I saw the options, only thing that I did not like was that the menu linked to and thereby promoted a single work
[07:20] <mdke> having different help options is certainly positive
[07:20] <froud> yes
[07:20] <mdke> but not more than one source of documentation. Two (online and system) is already too many
[07:21] <froud> mdke: I understand your thinking
[07:21] <froud> Online also depends on the person being online :-)
[07:22] <mdke> indeed
[07:23] <froud> So if a work is not supported by Canonical, it cannot feature in that menu?
[07:24] <mdke> well, everything in ubuntu is supported by Canonical
[07:24] <froud> We have plan to develop a measureup type of system for ECDL students that would integrate to that menu
[07:25] <mdke> Not sure what that is, but presumably it doesn't apply to default Ubuntu installs
[07:25] <mdke> some kind of derivative?
[07:25] <froud> It would be an addon package
[07:25] <froud> Test Yourself type of thing
[07:25] <froud> Question and Answers = Score at end
[07:26] <froud> Not part of default, as you say
[07:27] <mdke> sounds cool
[07:27] <mdke> not help though, surely
[07:28] <froud> No courseware is instructor lead, but training center will have MeasureUp installed on each sudent desktop and students can install MeasureUp at home since they will be given a copy of Ubuntu (free to install)
[07:29] <froud> Anyway, nough said, I must go back to writing
[07:29] <froud> Thanks for your input on that
[08:13] <robitaille> mdke,  you're an Ubuntu star now...people come to you with their specs :)
[08:17] <OHPhoneGuy> Can someone look at some documentation that I've came up with to give me some creative critism on making it better?
[08:18] <OHPhoneGuy> http://www.ianwilson.org/index.php/Ubuntu_Linux_Install_Guide