[02:35] <LaserJock> hmm, pretty dead in here
[02:37] <rob> bored?
[02:37] <crimsun> some of us are at work :)
[02:38] <crimsun> and spent an hour chasing down a difference between /bin/echo and bash's built-in echo
[02:38] <rob> I'm going to the show shortly :)
[02:40] <crimsun> rob: nice
[02:41] <LaserJock> I just got home from shoping with the wife, etc.
[03:51] <bddebian> Heya gang
[04:18] <LaserJock> hi bddebian
[04:18] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[04:21] <LaserJock> bddebian: how's it going?
[04:22] <bddebian> OK, I guess, thanks.  You?
[04:40] <LaserJock> bddebian: not bad, trying to read *all* my email
[04:43] <bddebian> tseng: :)
[04:44] <tseng> I will try not to go on swearing for the next hour
[04:44] <bddebian> Ah, go ahead :-)
[04:45] <tseng> I would go so far as to say Beagle should be the alternative to Tracker
[04:45] <tseng> as Tracker uses nearly no memory in comparison
[04:45] <tseng> brilliant deduction
[04:47] <tseng> it doesnt even have its own ui, only a nautilus patch
[04:47] <LaserJock> tseng: I wouldn't worry too much
[04:47] <tseng> I am not worried, I am frustrated
[04:47] <LaserJock> ah, well then I can understand that
[04:48] <Erlang> why?
[04:48] <LaserJock> although I've never found beagle very useful, it seems much more mature than tracker
[04:48] <tseng> have you read the thread?
[04:48] <tseng> it starts out "woo blue sky idea, someone please do my work for me"
[04:48] <tseng> and ends with hypothetical corner cases deep in the kernel
[04:49] <tseng> courtesy of John Moser
[04:50] <Erlang> many threads kinda end up that way on tech mailing lists.  I did not pay much attention, but I see your point.
[04:52] <tseng> I will just refrain from replying as it has gone into reiser4 fanboing
[04:54] <LaserJock> yeah, there was like only 1 or 2 emails in the thread that actually had anything to do with tracker/beagle
[05:02] <zakame> huhu
[05:03] <LaserJock> hi zakame
[05:04] <bddebian> Heya zakame
[05:05] <zakame> hi LazerJock bddebian! =)
[05:05] <zakame> looks like I'll be in Manila longer than usual
[05:09] <bddebian> Oh?
[05:16] <Hobbsee> hi all
[05:17] <bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
[05:17] <Hobbsee> hi bddebian :)
[05:17] <Hobbsee> hi ajmitch_
[05:17] <zul> hey
[05:17] <zakame> heya Hobbsee
[05:17] <zakame> hey zul
[05:18] <Hawkwind> Hey ya Hobbsee, bddebian and zul
[05:18] <Hobbsee> hi zul
[05:18] <Hobbsee> hi Hawkwind
[05:18] <zul> anyone running edgy on amd64?
[05:19] <zul> if they are wanna test something for me? ;)
[05:21] <bddebian> Heya Hawkwind, zul
[05:22] <Hawkwind> zul: Not I, or I'd test it for ya
[05:22] <bddebian> I still need to get an amd64 box :-(
[05:23] <zul> hmmm...must fiddle with qemu then
[05:23] <TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee.
[05:24] <Hobbsee> hi TheMuso
[05:29] <LaserJock> hi imbrandon
[05:29] <TheMuso> Hey imbrandon.
[05:29] <imbrandon> heya ( /me kicks osx )
[05:29] <imbrandon> hey TheMuso
[05:31] <imbrandon> any irssi gurus in here ?
[05:31] <LaserJock> just a casual user here
[05:32] <imbrandon> heh whats the file that stores the default nickname and default server
[05:32] <imbrandon> and autojoin chans etc
[05:33] <LaserJock> .irrsi/config
[05:33] <imbrandon> cool thanks
[05:41] <bddebian> Hi imbrandon
[05:41] <imbrandon> heya bddebian
[05:42] <imbrandon> bah i hate kern updates, brb
[06:27] <bddebian> Gnight folks
[07:49] <Gloubiboulga> morning
[07:51] <Hobbsee> hi Gloubiboulga
[07:52] <Gloubiboulga> hey Hobbsee
[08:30] <Hobbsee> anyone feel like uploading something for me?
[08:32] <Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, sure
[08:32] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: thanks :) uploading in a sec - forgot to debsign it
[08:33] <Gloubiboulga> ok
[08:37] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: right, it's uploaded, will grab you teh link in a sec
[08:37] <Hobbsee> oh, stupid dput!  it didnt upload the .orig.tar.gz!
[08:39] <Gloubiboulga> poor dput ;)
[08:39] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: http://merges.ubuntu.com/k/kdiff3/kdiff3_0.9.90.orig.tar.gz is the .orig.tar.gz.
[08:39] <Gloubiboulga> I think dput only does what he's asked to do :p
[08:39] <Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, ok
[08:39] <Hobbsee> it should have uploaded them all with the .changes file.
[08:40] <Gloubiboulga> have you use scott's merge-buildpackage?
[08:40] <Gloubiboulga> used*
[08:46] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: yes
[08:46] <Hobbsee> or hang on, did i use that, or his genchanges?
[08:47] <Gloubiboulga> hi Yagisan
[08:47] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: want me to use teh buildpackage, and reupload?
[08:47] <Yagisan> meh - I lost a day.
[08:47] <Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, as you want
[08:48] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: it doesnt matter to me - that way has worked before.  revu package is at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2572
[08:52] <Hobbsee> thanks Gloubiboulga :)
[09:01] <Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, the .diff.gz is really big
[09:03] <Gloubiboulga> there's a lot of .pot file changes, but maybe it's normal for KDE apps (I don't know how translations work for you)
[09:04] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: two upstream releases between this and the last ubuntu release - that got anything to do with it?
[09:04] <Hobbsee> but you're right, there are
[09:04] <Gloubiboulga> the debian diff is smaller
[09:06] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: wow, it's way smaller.  i'm not sure what happened there
[09:06] <Gloubiboulga> maybe a MoM 'bug'
[09:06] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: the debian patch is huge, too
[09:07] <Gloubiboulga> yes, cause the ubuntu and debian diff.gz are really different
[09:07] <Hobbsee> why?
[09:08] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: sheesh!  the debian patch is bigger than the .orig.tar.gz!
[09:09] <Gloubiboulga> yes...
[09:09] <Gloubiboulga> I'd just apply the changes manually to keep the diff as small as possible with debian
[09:12] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: yeah, i'm not really confident with that patch now - it looked okay to me before, but...something seems to have borked
[09:12] <Gloubiboulga> hello raphink
[09:12] <Hobbsee> hi raphink
[09:12] <raphink> yop Gloubiboulga && Hobbsee
[09:12] <Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, I think so too
[09:16] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: what, as in, grab the debian source, do the patches manually, then upload it?
[09:16] <Hobbsee> do i still use the merge-buildpackage?
[09:17] <Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, yes, do that and run merger-buildpackage
[09:17] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: merger-buildpackage?
[09:17] <Hobbsee> what's that?
[09:17] <Gloubiboulga> it will generate a very nice source.changes including all the debian hcanges
[09:18] <Gloubiboulga> err, merge-buildpackage (typo)
[09:18] <Hobbsee> right :P
[09:18] <Gloubiboulga> use grab-merge.sh to get the source
[09:18] <Gloubiboulga> s
[09:18] <Hobbsee> yep
[09:26] <AnAnt> lionelp: are you there ?
[09:28] <lionelp> Yes :)
[09:28] <lionelp> Sorry, yesterday I was away
[09:29] <lionelp> and night, I was in front of my TV for brazil-france :)
[09:30] <lionelp> AnAnt ?
[09:31] <lionelp> Oh, you have just uploaded kchmviewer
[09:34] <AnAnt> lionelp: yup
[09:35] <AnAnt> lionelp: did u see what I said yesterday ?
[09:35] <AnAnt> lionelp: also I fixed something in freedict
[09:37] <lionelp> I saw, but I dot not remember anymore
[09:38] <AnAnt> lionelp: regarding kchmviewer, the difference between my package & the one in Debian is that mine doesn't need KDE, ie. builds against QT only
[09:39] <lionelp> yep, I just scroll to see what you told yesterday
[09:39] <AnAnt> lionelp: I wish I know how to make several variants, ie add a variant to compile against QT only, and leave the original variant which compiles against KDE, but I am still weak in packaging
[09:40] <lionelp> KDE support is useless ?
[09:40] <Hobbsee> AnAnt:  um, why do you want to make a QT package only?  which of the KDE packages were involved in making the KDE version?
[09:41] <Hobbsee> what does debian/control say for each version?  (in particular, the deps and build-deps)
[09:42] <AnAnt> Hobbsee: it's the build-deps that are different in the source package
[09:42] <Hobbsee> AnAnt: which build-deps?
[09:42] <AnAnt> Hobbsee: libqt3-mt-dev
[09:42] <AnAnt> Hobbsee: libqt3-mt-dev  in my package
[09:43] <Hobbsee> yep
[09:43] <AnAnt> Hobbsee: kdelibs4-dev in the original package
[09:43] <AnAnt> original=Debian
[09:44] <AnAnt> lionelp: yes, it is not needed
[09:44] <Hobbsee> AnAnt: it does provide useful features
[09:44] <AnAnt> Hobbsee: as what ?
[09:44] <raphink> programs built with with qt look horrible
[09:44] <Hobbsee>  However, it may be compiled
[09:44] <Hobbsee>  with full KDE support, including KDE widgets and KIO/KHTML.
[09:44] <raphink> and they don't have all the functionalities from KDE
[09:44] <raphink> just as Hobbsee said
[09:45] <lionelp> Hi raphink :)
[09:45] <raphink> if this program is called Kchmviewer, it's because it's aimed to be built in KDE
[09:45] <raphink> hi lionelp
[09:45] <Hobbsee> interesting that the ubuntu version only needs kdelibs4c2a...
[09:46] <AnAnt> as for freedict, I added an arabic-english dictionary (from ftp.dict.org)
[09:46] <raphink> AnAnt: if you're anti-kde, I suggest you port the program to gtk
[09:47] <raphink> instead of preventing KDE people from using the KDE programs to the full
[09:47] <AnAnt> raphink: I wish I know how to do so
[09:47] <raphink> there are guides to learn gtk
[09:47] <raphink> :)
[09:47] <AnAnt> raphink: well, that's why I want to add a variant in the control file with compiles against QT only, but dunno how
[09:47] <Hobbsee> AnAnt: for those kde haters, it's not that hard to grab the source, pull out the kde dep, and recompile it.
[09:47] <raphink> yes
[09:47] <Hobbsee> AnAnt: that would require two packages, unless you used an | i guess
[09:48] <AnAnt> Hobbsee: what | are you talking about ?
[09:48] <AnAnt> Hobbsee: yes, I want to do like VIM for example, it can create several binary packages
[09:48] <raphink> Hobbsee: no that does require to build two packages
[09:48] <Hobbsee> raphink: ah okay
[09:49] <raphink> AnAnt: your package will still need to build-depend on kdelibs
[09:49] <raphink> since you'll be using it for one of the two binaries
[09:49] <Hobbsee> raphink: you cant do a b-d on kdelibs4c2a|libqt3-mt-dev?
[09:49] <Hobbsee> good point
[09:49] <AnAnt> oh yes !
[09:49] <raphink> ;)
[09:50] <AnAnt> can't I do kdelibs4c2a|libqt3-mt-dev ?
[09:50] <raphink> well that works if you build your package in your env
[09:50] <raphink> but not in a pbuilder
[09:50] <Hobbsee> presumably that only works for deps, not build-deps
[09:50] <raphink> like sbuilder/pbuilder
[09:50] <Hobbsee> ah yes
[09:51] <raphink> it makes no sense for build-deps
[09:51] <raphink> because you can't choose the one to use in a pbuilder/sbuilder
[09:51] <AnAnt> why not for pbuilder ?
[09:51] <raphink> and this is what is gonna be used to build the package eventually
[09:51] <raphink> AnAnt: because you just give it the .dsc and it builds
[09:51] <AnAnt> raphink: so ?
[09:51] <raphink> so the package has to be clear as to which build-deps to use
[09:51] <AnAnt> raphink: it will build the 2 variants, right ?
[09:52] <raphink> no
[09:52] <raphink> it will grab the first working lib
[09:52] <raphink> in that case, kdelibs4c2a
[09:52] <AnAnt> raphink: why does it build several variants in VIM then ?
[09:52] <raphink> and not the second one, since the rule says |
[09:52] <raphink> AnAnt: because there are several packages defined in debian/control
[09:52] <raphink> and rules to build all the variants in debian/rules
[09:52] <AnAnt> raphink: well, I want to do that too
[09:53] <AnAnt> raphink: I just don't understand what to do in the rules file
[09:53] <raphink> and debian/*.install files to tell which file goes in which package
[09:53] <raphink> AnAnt: grab the vim package and study it ;)
[09:53] <AnAnt> hmmm
[09:53] <Hobbsee> raphink: enjoy :)
[09:54] <raphink> thanks
[09:54] <Hobbsee> AnAnt: if you were to do that, you'd have to build two files, whihc is more inconvenient than building one.  then again, you'd only install one presumably
[09:54] <Hobbsee> it's still confusing.
[09:55] <AnAnt> Hobbsee: fine, I'm satisfied in building two files, it's a one time thing
[09:56] <AnAnt> Hobbsee: but I see it is a nice feature to have 2 variants, one for KDE/QT, another for QT only
[09:56] <Hobbsee> and doing updates for it, at infinitum, i think
[09:56] <Hobbsee> maybe not
[09:56] <Hobbsee> maybe the next maintainer would just axe the qt only port.
[09:56] <Hobbsee> hmmm
[09:56] <Hobbsee> AnAnt: you an ex-gentoo user, by any chance?
[09:57] <AnAnt> Hobbsee: nope
[10:02] <crimsun> is there are a large prospective userbase for the Qt-only package?
[10:03] <AnAnt> crimsun: dunno
[10:45] <antinobody> hello motuies
[10:46] <crimsun> hi
[10:46] <antinobody> hi crimsun
[10:46] <Hobbsee> hi antinobody
[10:46] <antinobody> hey Hobbsee
[10:46] <antinobody> how goes along the merging?
[10:47] <Hobbsee> antinobody: one that seems to have borked, otherwise okay :)
[10:50] <antinobody> Hobbsee: I'm told to ask you about merge-o-matic?
[10:51] <Hobbsee> antinobody: you got told that by the edgychanges link?  glad someone reads it
[10:51] <Hobbsee> antinobody: yes, there is a mergeomatic, it makes our lives much easier for merging
[10:51] <antinobody> Hobbsee: What is it, exactly?
[10:51] <Hobbsee> antinobody: merges.ubuntu.com
[10:52] <antinobody> Hobbsee: right, like the link in the topic
[10:52] <Hobbsee> antinobody: yep, that's it
[10:53] <Hobbsee> then again, it would be on the logs, to
[10:53] <Hobbsee> o
[10:54] <Hobbsee> !logs
[10:54] <Hobbsee> ah
[10:54] <crimsun> people/~fabbione/irclogs/
[10:54] <Hobbsee> yep
[10:55] <Kamping_Kaiser> :)
[10:56] <Hobbsee> antinobody: just grabbing the log of it now, and condensing it a bit
[10:58] <antinobody> Hobbsee: How does one update the thing?  When a merge is finished, is there a mechanism for reporting that?  I remember something about a bug report...
[10:59] <Hobbsee> antinobody: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-devel-2006-06-30.html - start where keybuk says "Hobbsee: in case nobody's said already, could you use the -v<last_version_in_Ubuntu> option to debuild when building merged uploads.."
[10:59] <Hobbsee> antinobody: poke a MOTU to upload it for you, or file a bug about it, assign it to MOTU reviewers
[11:02] <antinobody> Hobbsee: thanky
[11:02] <Hobbsee> antinobody: oh, and upload to REVU
[11:03] <antinobody> right, right
[11:14] <lfittl> If I want to help with merging, how can I request a sync if I am no MOTU?
[11:15] <Hobbsee> lfittl: ping a motu, like maybe StevenK?
[11:15] <Hobbsee> or just ask if there's anyone who wants to review a package
[11:16] <lfittl> Hobbsee: k
[11:16] <StevenK> Hey, no dobbing me in.
[11:17] <Hobbsee> StevenK: :P
[11:36] <DanielC> I just made a .deb for edgy; and 'debuild' gave me the error "bad-distribution-in-changes-file edgy"
[11:36] <DanielC> Isn't it called "edgy"?
[11:38] <siretart> DanielC: it is, but lintian isn't updated yet
[11:38] <DanielC> Ok. So this warning is safe to ignore?
[11:40] <DanielC> lintian also says "no-copyright-file". But I do have a debian/copyright file. :(
[11:52] <DanielC> How about this lintian error: package-uses-debhelper-but-lacks-build-depends ?
[11:52] <DanielC> This package doesn't have any dependencies.
[11:53] <StevenK> Lintian is talking about Build-Depends, not Depends, there.
[11:54] <StevenK> They should appear in the first stanza in debian/control if the package needs anything more than build-essential to build.
[11:54] <DanielC> Ok... so should I add a Build-Depends and leave it blank?
[11:54] <StevenK> No, Build-Depends: debhelper
[11:54] <DanielC> The package doesn't need anything to build.
[11:54] <DanielC> Ok...
[11:54] <StevenK> Evidently, it needs debhelper.
[11:55] <DanielC> I'm using debhelper (the dh_*) files.
[11:55] <DanielC> I mean..., I'm suing the dh_* helper scripts.
[11:56] <DanielC> You might notice that this is my first time making a .deb file :)
[11:56] <StevenK> debhelper isn't build-essential, so you need to Build-Depends on it explicity.
[11:57] <DanielC> Ok. I guess I got confused by the fact that this package isn't even compilable software; it's just documentation...
[11:57] <DanielC> But I guess that in this context build doesn't imply "compile".
[11:58] <DanielC> I just ran debuilder again. Problem fixed. Thanks!
[12:02] <_ion> You should build the packages with pbuilder/sbuild (i.e. using a chroot) in order to find problems with build-deps.
[12:04] <jsgotangco> yay
[12:05] <DanielC> what does pbuilder create do? I just know that pbuilder told me to run that.
[12:08] <DanielC> Ok, I think I understand now, based on the man page... let's see... the best way to build Debian packages is through a chroot environment. I take that to mean that it's a directory with a minimalist Debian installation in which you chroot.
[12:08] <DanielC> and `pbuilder create` will create this directory.
[12:08] <DanielC> Am I close?
[12:10] <Gloubiboulga_> yes
[12:10] <DanielC> Ok, I'm learning :)
[12:10] <DanielC> Where can I find this directory?
[12:10] <Gloubiboulga_> it creates a chroot then tgz it to use it again when you run 'pbuilder buil'
[12:11] <Gloubiboulga_> if you've not changed the default config the .tgz is stored in /var/cache/pbuilder
[12:11] <DanielC> Ok, I see it. It's base.tgz
[12:11] <Gloubiboulga_> yes
[12:12] <DanielC> I wonder how I managed to put a file in there without being root...  pbuilder doesn't have the suid bit set...
[12:14] <DanielC> stupid me, I was root.
[12:15] <Gloubiboulga_> hehe
[12:16] <DanielC> So do I...  but I actually used 'sudo' this time... that's why it's embarrassing.
[12:17] <DanielC> I pressed the "up" arrow key, and edited a command that had used 'sudo' before.
[12:17] <DanielC> Do you normally run pbuilder as root or as a regular user? The packaging guide has "sudo" on it.
[12:18] <DanielC> But I'm surprised that you'd need root privileges to make debs.
[12:18] <Gloubiboulga_> you can set up pbuilder to run it as a user, but I always uses 'sudo pbuilder'
[12:18] <DanielC> ok
[12:19] <DanielC> Any reason for that?
[12:19] <Gloubiboulga_> yes, laziness ;)
[12:19] <DanielC> ok :)
[12:22] <lfittl> does somebody have time to request a sync for 44 packages that I just checked? (really simple ones, just build-dep fixes for dapper that were also fixed in debian)
[12:25] <StevenK> I run pdebuild, which then execs sudo pbuilder
[12:27] <DanielC> Does anyone know what this pbuild warning means:  warning: no utmp entry available and LOGNAME not defined; using uid of process (1234)
[12:27] <StevenK> DanielC: It's harmless
[12:27] <DanielC> Ok, thanks.
[12:28] <StevenK> DanielC: It comes from dpkg, I think
[12:40] <DanielC> Ok, the LOGNAME message was the only error (but it got printed many times). Does that mean that my package works correctly? (although debuilder gave other errors like "no-copyright-file", etc?)
[12:43] <Gloubiboulga_> if you find a .deb in /var/cache/pbuilder/result it worked
[12:43] <DanielC> Well, I knew that it "worked" before in the sense that it made a .deb and the .deb installed correctly.
[12:44] <Gloubiboulga_> using pbuilder?
[12:44] <DanielC> But debuilder threw a few warnings that I figured I should correct. Like, it thinks I have no copyright file.
[12:44] <DanielC> Yes, pbuilder produced a .deb
[12:44] <Gloubiboulga_> ok
[12:44] <DanielC> I haven't tried the .deb from pbuilder, but I guess it should work too.
[12:44] <Gloubiboulga_> I guess
[12:45] <jsgotangco> best to try it out to know =)
[12:46] <DanielC> works
[12:49] <DanielC> Is there a way to prevent the creation of the directory /usr/share/doc/{$package} ?
[12:50] <DanielC> The .debs always create this directory and it ends up empty except for the changelog file.
[12:50] <Gloubiboulga_> you should find the copyright file in the directory too
[12:50] <DanielC> nope
[12:51] <Gloubiboulga_> then lintian is right :)
[12:51] <DanielC> :)
[12:51] <Gloubiboulga_> do you have a debian/copyright file in your sources ?
[12:51] <DanielC> yes
[12:51] <Gloubiboulga_> hmm
[12:52] <Gloubiboulga_> and do you call dh_installdocs in your rules?
[12:52] <DanielC> ah
[12:52] <Gloubiboulga_> :)
[12:52] <Gloubiboulga_> it will install the copyright file
[12:52] <Gloubiboulga_> *always* use it
[12:57] <DanielC> Ok, now it installs the copyright file. And I learnt something new today :)
[12:57] <DanielC> Now lintian says:  copyright-should-refer-to-common-license-file-for-gpl
[12:57] <DanielC> How do I make the copyright file do that?
[12:59] <Gloubiboulga_> you can look at some other copyright files ;)
[01:00] <DanielC> Yes, I'm looking at the debian-policy copyright file... but I can't see anything...
[01:00] <Gloubiboulga_> look at the last paragraph of the file
[01:01] <Gloubiboulga_> "On debian systems..."
[01:02] <dooglus> speedy: make /etc/iftab with lines like:  eth0 mac 00:00:11:22:33:44
[01:03] <dooglus> spacey: then it will always use the same interface names
[01:03] <dooglus> um - speedy
[01:03] <dooglus> wow - wrong channel, wrong nick... just wrong!
[01:06] <DanielC> Gloubiboulga_: Got it, thanks. None of the sample sources I had here had that line, but I got the sources for gaim and that one did have it.
[01:07] <Gloubiboulga_> DanielC, great
[01:08] <Hobbsee> hi all
[01:08] <Gloubiboulga_> wb Hobbsee
[01:08] <Hobbsee> hey Gloubiboulga_ :)
[01:09] <Gloubiboulga_> what time is it for you Hobbsee?
[01:09] <Hobbsee> @time sydney
[01:09] <Ubugtu> Current time in Australia/Sydney: July 02 2006, 21:09:24
[01:09] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga_: not late ^
[01:09] <Gloubiboulga_> ok :)
[01:28] <DanielC> Is there a way to change the default doc install to something other than /usr/share/doc/{$package} ?
[01:29] <tseng> no
[01:29] <DanielC> ok
[01:29] <_ion> Fortunately.
[01:29] <tseng> right.
[01:29] <DanielC> ?
[01:30] <DanielC> I just didn't want to pollute the user's ../doc/ directory with many directories that are related. I thought they should all be in one common directory.
[01:31] <tseng> if they arent the same source package
[01:31] <tseng> they arent related
[01:31] <DanielC> ok...
[01:32] <DanielC> A good example of this would be if we wanted to put all the OpenOffice.org documentation files in the same directory (/usr/share/doc/openoffice.org/).
[01:32] <DanielC> Is this sort of thing "not done" ?
[01:33] <tseng> no, it isnt.
[01:33] <DanielC> Ok.
[01:35] <tseng> hi Yagisan
[01:35] <DanielC> hi
[01:35] <ajmitch> hi Yagisan
[01:36] <Yagisan> how is everyone today ?
[01:36] <sivang> @time Israel
[01:36] <Ubugtu> Current time in Israel: July 02 2006, 14:36:21
[01:36] <sivang> yay
[01:36] <sivang> Ubugtu: you are getting smarter on a daily basis!
[02:06] <\sh> moins
[02:06] <ajmitch> hi \sh
[02:06] <StevenK> ajmitch: How is sunny downtown western Sydney?
[02:06] <ajmitch> good evening StevenK
[02:06] <ajmitch> sunny?
[02:07] <ajmitch> where's this 'sun' you talk of?
[02:07] <StevenK> Sleeping, at the moment.
[02:08] <ajmitch> figures
[02:08] <ajmitch> typical australian :)
[02:08] <DanielC> How can I find out if a package is installed by default in Ubuntu?
[02:09] <Lathiat> rdepends it
[02:09] <Lathiat> see if any of the ubuntu meta packages depend on it
[02:09] <Lathiat> ?
[02:09] <Lathiat> its a little more complex than that but it'd give you an idea?
[02:09] <DanielC> Ok, that should work... thanks.
[02:09] <Lathiat> or try apt-get remove it and see if ubuntu-desktop wants to go
[02:09] <Lathiat> :)
[02:10] <DanielC> :)
[02:10] <\sh> or just ask
[02:11] <zanaga> I'm trying to get python-lxml to work on edgy. It's in depwait and waiting for pyrex and python-setuptools, so i merged the changes from debian. Is there a place to dump them to so you guys don't need to redo the work.
[02:11] <\sh> ajmitch: sorry to ask, but where can I see who is doing which merges_
[02:12] <ajmitch> \sh: currently, I don't know - people have been taking ones that they've touched last
[02:13] <\sh> ajmitch: grmpf...because I have to stop some people taking sip4, pyqt, pykde etc.
[02:13] <ajmitch> hm, why is that?
[02:14] <\sh> ajmitch: because they are ready on my laptop :
[02:14] <StevenK> Heh
[02:14] <ajmitch> right :)
[02:14] <ajmitch> get someone to upload them asap
[02:14] <ajmitch> StevenK looks to be volunteering
[02:14] <\sh> oh stevenk has main rights? :)
[02:14] <ajmitch> not that I know.. darn
[02:15] <\sh> or I just wait for tuesday
[02:15] <ajmitch> yeah
[02:15] <DanielC> Ok, mono-common does not "rdepend" on ubuntu-desktop (or almost anything) so that means mono is probably not installed by default?
[02:15] <ajmitch> no, it's not currently
[02:15] <DanielC> Ok, thanks.
[02:15] <\sh> or I could adjust grab_merge with our lpmerge script
[02:16] <StevenK> I do not have main rights.
[02:16] <StevenK> If you're volunteering to bestow them on them....
[02:16] <StevenK> Er, s/them on them/them on me/
[02:25] <ajmitch> night all
[02:26] <Gloubiboulga> night ajmitch
[02:52] <AnAnt> do openssl & gnutls conflict with each other ?
[02:53] <tseng> not that I can see
[02:53] <tseng> Conflicts: ssleay (<< 0.9.2b), libssl, openssl (<< 0.9.6-2), libssl096-dev (<< 0.9.6-2)
[02:54] <tseng> Conflicts: gnutls0, gnutls0.4
[02:54] <tseng> just with old versions of themselves
[02:58] <lifeless> check provides
[02:58] <lifeless> but I would not expect them to conflict
[03:00] <AnAnt> tseng: is it preferrable to compile packages against openssl or gnutls ?
[03:00] <\sh> depends on the license
[03:00] <AnAnt> \sh: the software supports both
[03:02] <\sh> AnAnt: there was something with licenses of openssl
[03:03] <Hobbsee> hiya \sh
[03:03] <bmonty> openssl requires that you put a notification that the software is linked with openssl
[03:03] <bmonty> Hobbsee: just start drinking again :)
[03:04] <\sh> hey Hobbsee.how is life?
[03:04] <Yagisan> G'day Hobbsee
[03:04] <Hobbsee> hi bmonty \sh and Yagisan
[03:04] <Hobbsee> \sh: good, ajmitch is over here at the mometn :)
[03:04] <\sh> Hobbsee: ajmitch is next to you? ;)
[03:05] <\sh> gpg --send-key
[03:05] <\sh> gpg --send-key <your keyid>
[03:05] <Hobbsee> \sh: not anymore
[03:05] <Hobbsee> \sh: i dropped him back at the hotel
[03:06] <tseng> poor guy
[03:06] <Hobbsee> \sh: thanks :)
[03:06] <tseng> all that dropping makes for a sore bum
[03:06] <Hobbsee> tseng: heh, yeah, having to put up with me
[03:06] <\sh> Hobbsee: couldn't he sleep outside in front of your house? ;)
[03:06] <Hobbsee> \sh: hahaha
[03:07] <Yagisan> Hobbsee: you didn't let him stay. poor guy.
[03:11] <Hobbsee> heh
[03:11] <Hobbsee> yeah
[03:11] <Hobbsee> Yagisan: i live with parents, remember?
[03:12] <Yagisan> Hobbsee: so did my wife. It didn't stop me >:)
[03:12] <Yagisan> Hobbsee: but, yeah, I can see how that makes things hard
[03:13] <Yagisan> Hobbsee: ohh, they are all white now.
[03:13] <Hobbsee> they are?
[03:13] <Yagisan> Hobbsee: your eyes
[03:13] <Hobbsee> right.
[03:14] <Yagisan> Hobbsee: you'll meet one of my monsters^Wangels tomorrow
[03:14] <Hobbsee> Yagisan: hehe, so i hear
[03:14] <Hobbsee> i hear i'm allowed to come :P
[03:15] <\sh> oh keysigning down under ;)
[03:15] <Hobbsee> \sh: no, ajmitch did that earlier
[03:15] <Hobbsee> he said my licence didnt look much like me though :P
[03:15] <Yagisan> \sh: you can sign mine, but I'll need to post the details to you ;)
[03:16] <\sh> Yagisan: hehe...next ubuntu conf? whereever it is
[03:16] <Hobbsee> Yagisan: you're really working with an unsigned key?
[03:17] <Yagisan> Hobbsee: yeah. most people here mett me at UDU, but that was with my old key, before a expensive problem occurred
[03:17] <Hobbsee> Yagisan: ah right.  get ajmitch to sign it tomorrow?
[03:17] <Yagisan> yep.
[03:18] <Yagisan> Hobbsee: possibly you too
[03:18] <Hobbsee> Yagisan: me to sign?  could be done
[03:18] <Yagisan> \sh: when I can next afford it, I'll see you at an ubuntu conf
[03:18] <Yagisan> Hobbsee: why not ?
[03:18] <Hobbsee> Yagisan: didnt think i could sign
[03:18] <\sh> Yagisan: yeah, when I can afford it, right, that was the problem ;)
[03:19] <Yagisan> brb - kids
[03:19] <_ion> SIGCHLD
[03:19] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:19] <\sh> oh my, they are shooting here..
[03:20] <Hobbsee> they what?
[03:20] <\sh> bombs, canons i don't know
[03:20] <\sh> a war in germany
[03:20] <mc__> hi,what knowledge is needed to become a motu?
[03:20] <Hobbsee> eek
[03:21] <_ion> Hmm, SIGCHLD wouldn't really be so funny, as it means the child just terminated. :-)
[03:21] <\sh> mc__: debian packaging skills, coding knowledge
[03:25] <Hobbsee> mc__: there's a link on wiki.ubuntu.com about it IIRC.
[03:25] <\sh> ok..now my key has a photo id as well :)
[03:30] <\sh> if anyone has time, and can have a look over kbilliards on revu, would be nice :)
[03:33] <AnAnt> what's the difference (in functionality) between openssl & gnutls ? I mean, is there some protocols supported in openssl but not in gnutls ?
[03:39] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:42] <\sh> moins bddebian
[03:43] <bmonty> hi bddebian
[03:43] <bddebian> Hi \sh, bmonty
[03:43] <Hobbsee> hi bddebian
[03:43] <bddebian> and Hobbsee again ;-)
[03:43] <Hobbsee> :P
[03:45] <bmonty> do we want to keep around CXX transition packages? debian fam has a libfam0c012 that depends on libfam0 which is the real package, we dropped libfam0c102 in ubuntu
[03:45] <Yagisan> re
[03:45] <\sh> bmonty: I would get rid of it
[03:45] <Yagisan> Hobbsee: you can sign the key of anyone whose identity you can establish to your satisfaction
[03:45] <\sh> bmonty: I wonder why debian has it still
[03:46] <Hobbsee> Yagisan: ah right
[03:46] <bmonty> \sh: I don't know, I thought about getting rid of it, but I don't think it hurts, and we can sync the package instead of keeping a -ubuntu version
[03:46] <\sh> Hobbsee: did oyu read madducks blog (or debian planet) about his experiement with his ID of the "Transnational Republic"?
[03:46] <Hobbsee> \sh: no
[03:46] <Hobbsee> oh, hang on...maybe
[03:47] <Yagisan> \sh: I saw it on DD
[03:47] <Hobbsee> i'd have to have the link to check
[03:47] <Yagisan> \sh: it was a valid id, just not a government id
[03:48] <\sh> Hobbsee: http://blog.madduck.net/geek/2006.05.24-tr-id-at-keysigning
[03:48] <Yagisan> \sh: like eg a student id card
[03:48] <\sh> Yagisan: no...it's a real ID from the transnational republic...no faked user data actually...
[03:49] <\sh> Yagisan: I signed madducks key just because of that ;)
[03:49] <\sh> Yagisan: http://www.transnationalrepublic.org/ :)
[03:49] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:50] <Hobbsee> the idea of keysigning etc is kinda flawed anyway - ditto ID for proof of age for cigarettes, pubs, clubs, etc
[03:50] <\sh> the problem with keysigning is, I could give you an ID card from my government, but can you assure that it's really me? or just another stephan hermann with the same face?
[03:50] <dsas> It's just a question of whether or not you trust the TR to totally check madducks passport.
[03:51] <Yagisan> \sh: I didn't say it was fake, I just said it was like a student id card.
[03:51] <dsas> it's like me signing hobsees key because ajmitch says it's right.
[03:51] <Hobbsee> it's exactly like me accepting a NZ driving licence with a birthdate that could well be fake, cos i've not seen NZ drivers licences apart from work before - but we have to accept them, as a drivers licence
[03:52] <\sh> dsas: I am trusting madduck, because we said something before we met, and that was the point...and that's why I don't do any keysigning party anymore..because I don't know the people...I never talked to them...
[03:52] <Hobbsee> true
[03:52] <dsas> \sh: That's a good stance to take.
[03:53] <tseng> you shouldnt freely admit that :)
[03:53] <Hobbsee> well, yeah
[03:53] <tseng> sortof defeats the purpose
[03:53] <Hobbsee> shhh :P
[03:53] <Hobbsee> no, like i figured out the email based stuff later
[03:54] <\sh> dsas: but I talked to all the people I signed keys with...so I am sure, that they are who they said they are. It's so easy to get a forged ID card nowadays, and I'm not able to check if the ID is real or not...
[03:54] <Hobbsee> but the actual getting the fingerprint, i pretty much stuck my laptop next to his so he could type his in
[03:54] <Hobbsee> \sh: exactly.  i dont even want to think about what'll happen with work when we take the first incorrect ID and they find out.
[03:55] <dsas> \sh: If you talk to someone and know them and you're just using the ID as validation then that's fine. If you're *only* relying on the ID then as you point out, you're less sure that they're telling the truth.
[03:55] <Yagisan> I need to meet people before signing keys, but as long as I'm sure they are who they say they are, I'll sign. after all, I just vouch they are who they say are, not that they are a good person.
[03:56] <Yagisan> Hobbsee: my fingerprint is on my business cards.
[03:56] <Yagisan> Hobbsee: so you can validate it at home
[03:56] <Hobbsee> Yagisan: hehe, that's true.  that's like at work "i vouch that i saw that the counting of the drawer was done at this time.  i in no way, shape, or form say it's accurate"
[03:56] <Hobbsee> true
[03:58] <Yagisan> Hobbsee: to be honest, I never do keysigning on a pc at the meet
[03:59] <Hobbsee> Yagisan: fair enough
[03:59] <Yagisan> I'll check the fingerprint @ home, them do it from my box
[03:59] <Yagisan> Hobbsee: so, if I bring a kid that looks like me - is that proof of who I say I am ;)
[04:00] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:00] <tseng> signing after the meet doesnt buy you mich imo
[04:00] <tseng> much
[04:01] <Yagisan> nope, but I don't have to use someone elses laptop to do so.
[04:01] <tseng> someone elses laptop is different
[04:02] <\sh> and if you do it at home, nobody can watch over your shoulder when you type your passphrase ;)
[04:02] <Hobbsee> true
[04:06] <Hawkwind> Hobbsee: You see 3 people got spam again today, 2 of which were me and you :(
[04:07] <Hobbsee> Hawkwind: yeah, i thought i saw that.  i created a new filter for it, but it didnt want to filter.  i've had that spam before, and i'm not exactly sure why they're getting our emails in particular
[04:09] <Hawkwind> Strange.  I tried to filter it as well and couldn't get it to.  I'm wondering if it comes through again if it will filter then or not as there are times I can't get things to filter on the original version
[04:11] <Yagisan> woot. I figured out what was wrong with cmake
[04:11] <bddebian> Yagisan: What was it/
[04:11] <bddebian> ?
[04:12] <Hobbsee> Hawkwind: i've had about 6 of them
[04:13] <Yagisan> bddebian: it wasn't emitting my defines (-DFOO stuff) correctly
[04:13] <bddebian> Ah
[04:13] <Yagisan> bddebian: we now crash and burn on one of my errors instead now :)
[04:13] <bddebian> hehe
[04:16] <Hawkwind> Hobbsee: All 6 of them have been the same and they still won't filter you mean ?
[04:16] <Hobbsee> Hawkwind: yeah, but i didnt try filtering them
[04:17] <Hawkwind> Hobbsee: Ah ok.  Well hopefully we don't get anymore, or these filter from now on
[04:17] <Hobbsee> yeah
[04:42] <bddebian> OK, ajunta is really starting to piss me off
[04:43] <Hawkwind> Heh, anjuta is a royal pain at best
[04:44] <bddebian> I had good luck with it in dapper but it's killing me in edgy for some reason
[04:45] <sivang> bddebian: what are you trying to do with it?
[04:45] <bddebian> Build the new version from Debian
[04:46] <sivang> bddebian: ah :)
[04:46] <sivang> bddebian: I thought you were having issues creating autoconf cruft for your program using it ;)
[04:47] <bddebian> Nah, I don't actually USE any of the programs I build ;-)
[04:48] <sivang> bddebian: you see, there's the problem :-)))
[04:48] <bddebian> One of many :-)
[05:03] <bddebian> Ahhhh, #Q@$RQ$#^T56.   libwnck-dev 2.15 doesn't have libwnck-1.la
[05:07] <\sh> anyone care to upload one merge?
[05:08] <\sh> bddebian: you care,right ?
[05:08] <bddebian> Not anymore ;-P
[05:08] <\sh> please
[05:08] <bddebian> Sure bud, what you need?
[05:08] <\sh> http://archive.linux-server.org/
[05:08] <\sh> the kdiff source packages
[05:09] <\sh> and do a debuild -S -v0.9.88-5ubuntu2 -sa -k<your keyid>
[05:09] <\sh> in the source dir :) thx :)
[05:09] <\sh> merged, tested and works
[05:11] <bddebian> \sh: Do I really need the -vblah ?
[05:12] <\sh> bddebian: yes...last version is 0.9.88-5ubuntu2 :)
[05:12] <\sh> so we need to provide the last 2 changelog entries since 0.9.88-5ubuntu2 :)
[05:12] <bddebian> Ah
[05:16] <bddebian> \sh: uploading
[05:17] <\sh> bddebian: thx a lot
[05:38] <bddebian> \sh: No, thank YOU :-)
[05:42] <\sh> bddebian: care to take another one?
[05:43] <\sh> looks like I'm on drugs again ;)
[05:43] <sivang> are those main uploads ?:)
[05:43] <\sh> no
[05:44] <\sh> the main ones are laying still on my laptop :)
[05:45] <sivang> :)
[05:46] <\sh> so if anyone wants to take it
[05:46] <bddebian> \sh: Sure
[05:46] <\sh> bddebian: again on archive.linux-server.org
[05:46] <\sh> afterstep
[05:46] <\sh> debuild -S -v2.1.2-3ubuntu1 -sa -k<your id> ;)
[05:49] <\sh> oh no..wait
[05:49] <\sh> shit...
[05:50] <\sh> I'm stupid
[05:50] <sivang> \sh: sponsering upload worked for me without doing -k, is it mandatory ?
[05:50] <bddebian> Uh oh too late
[05:50] <\sh> damn
[05:50] <\sh> too fast...
[05:51] <\sh> ok...let's hope for another version from debian upstream *grmpf* it should be a sync
[05:52] <\sh> bddebian: thx
[05:52] <bddebian> Sorry
[05:52] <bddebian> Heya tuxmaniac
[05:52] <tuxmaniac> heya bddebian
[05:52] <\sh> bddebian: no...my fault :)
[05:52] <tuxmaniac> bo
[05:53] <\sh> bddebian: I didn't see the tree because of the forrest ;)
[05:53] <\sh> my change on afterstep went upstream
[05:54] <\sh> I need to learn this new mom system...it's different from older times
[05:55] <\sh> ok...laters crew...need to go for a while
[05:58] <sivang> laters \sh
[06:00] <\sh> alps-light1 is a sync, I requested it
[06:00] <\sh> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/alps-light1/+bug/51608
[06:00] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 51608 in alps-light1 "sync request of alps-light1_1.2.2-2 from debian unstable" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed] 
[06:00] <\sh> ok..gone
[06:01] <bddebian> Later \sh
[07:55] <Amaranth> so i take it python2.5-* will never exist?
[07:56] <Amaranth> now i feel stupid about using python2.4-* in depends :P
[11:12] <azeem> bluefoxicy: what's the problem with the current packages?
[11:12] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  lol I know :P
[11:13] <bluefoxicy> azeem:  oh, I just hate old-school debian/rules with 500 lines of dh_*; plus the nexuiz on REVU is 1.2 and 2.0 is out (and has awesome shit like a campaign mode et al)
[11:14] <bluefoxicy> (also I found at least on windows that Nexuiz 2.0 gets 60fps with the same set of effects that 1.5 got 20fps with)
[11:14] <azeem> I thought you were talking about the packages in unstable
[11:14] <tseng> rewriting a package with cdbs is pretty shit
[11:14] <tseng> if it isnt your package
[11:14] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  pisses the maintainers off too much?
[11:14] <tseng> we'll end up with a huge diff and possibly an angry DD
[11:14] <bluefoxicy> DD?
[11:15] <tseng> debian developer
[11:15] <bluefoxicy> oh
[11:15] <tseng> and an angry ubuntu dev every time he has to sync to debian
[11:15] <tseng> and merge your crazy huge diff
[11:15] <bluefoxicy> debian packages can't use CDBS?
[11:15] <tseng> please don't do it.
[11:15] <tseng> they can, if the maintainer wants them to
[11:15] <azeem> Maintainer: Debian Games Team <pkg-games-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>
[11:15] <tseng> we aren't in the business of repackaging things
[11:16] <bluefoxicy> azeem:  does debian even have nexuiz?  I thought that went straight at REVU
[11:16] <azeem> I was quoting from its control file in unstable
[11:16] <azeem> [2006-06-27]  Accepted 2.0-1 in unstable (low) (Bruno Fuddl Kleinert)
[11:17] <azeem> pretty recent addition
[11:17] <bluefoxicy> sweet.
[11:18] <bluefoxicy> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1634 was the last I saw
[11:19] <azeem> sounds like the same guy
[11:19] <bluefoxicy> lol@revu:  FSF address is out of date  <-- I copied the FSF address on there from debian/license in gzip or something
[11:26] <lionelp> bluefoxicy: oh, I made comments on paxutils
[11:26] <lionelp> I may have writent "FSF address is out of date" :)
[11:26] <lionelp> because she is :)
[11:27] <lionelp> I know that lot of documents are still comporting the old address
[11:27] <lionelp> but you can write the good one in debian.copyright
[11:44] <ryanakca> yay! I finished putting https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IdeaPool in alphabetical order!
[11:48] <\sh> re
[11:50] <\sh> tseng: ping
[11:50] <tseng> \sh: hi
[11:50] <\sh> tseng: can you do me a favour and approve https://launchpad.net/bugs/51608
[11:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 51608 in alps-light1 "[not dev]  sync request of alps-light1_1.2.2-2 from debian unstable" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed] 
[11:51] <\sh> keybuk doesn't trust my senses ;)
[11:51] <tseng> I am worthy of approving things?
[11:51] <tseng> oh
[11:51] <\sh> tseng: it needs a motu to say "yes, please, sync it's ok what \sh wrote"
[11:51] <tseng> you kicked yourself out of motu
[11:51] <tseng> right
[11:51] <\sh> tseng: yes
[11:52] <shawarma> At UDS, dholbach talked about trying to postpone uvf for universe. Does anyone know the status on that?
[11:52] <\sh> tseng: http://merges.ubuntu.com/a/alps-light1/REPORT
[11:52] <tseng> no
[11:52] <tseng> i dont like mom :)
[11:52] <tseng> i poke around in debian/ myself
[11:53] <\sh> the change was the c2a change last time I did the merge..now it's in debian
[11:53] <\sh> there are no ubuntu changes anymore :)
[11:53] <tseng> approved
[11:53] <tseng> you should sign yourself up for motu
[11:54] <\sh> I'll try to reactive my rights on tuesday at TB meeting
[11:54] <tseng> good luck
[11:54] <\sh> tseng: and someone has to reactivate again my membership for MOTU...removing doesn't mean, I can join again, removing means "disabled status"
[11:55] <tseng> I still dont see why you did that
[11:55] <tseng> but ok.
[11:55] <tseng> good luck
[11:55] <tseng> glad you are back