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| Keybuk | hey Tollef | 12:38 |
|---|---|---|
| \sh | Keybuk: it's ok for you (for sync request) if one motu is saying that "it's ok to sync"? | 12:47 |
| Keybuk | yup | 12:47 |
| \sh | Keybuk: kk..you got them :) | 12:48 |
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| Keybuk | \sh: is just a "sponsor" formality basically | 01:04 |
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| bddebian | Howdy | 01:05 |
| \sh | Keybuk: no problem :) I just working on some merges and syncs while I'm bored ;) | 01:05 |
| \sh | Preparing to replace libc6 2.4-1ubuntu4 (using .../libc6_2.4-1ubuntu6_i386.deb) ... | 01:05 |
| \sh | touch: setting times of `/etc/ld.so.nohwcap': Function not implemented | 01:05 |
| \sh | dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/libc6_2.4-1ubuntu6_i386.deb (--unpack): | 01:05 |
| \sh | hmmm...known ? | 01:05 |
| \sh | or is my chroot broken? | 01:06 |
| Keybuk | dunno, what filesystem? | 01:06 |
| bddebian | Keybuk: Sorry about the sync requests, apparently I have a pbuilder problem :-( | 01:06 |
| \sh | Keybuk: xfs | 01:06 |
| Keybuk | bddebian: which ones? | 01:07 |
| \sh | moment...recreating chroot | 01:07 |
| bddebian | gnome-build and gdl | 01:07 |
| Keybuk | bddebian: I don't tend to look at the name unless it works :p | 01:07 |
| Keybuk | ah, yeah | 01:07 |
| bddebian | OK, so how do I figure out where this .la file dependency coming from? I don't see it in ltmain.sh | 01:10 |
| Keybuk | "la file dependency" ? | 01:10 |
| bddebian | Sorry. ajunta is looking for /usr/lib/libwnck.la which is no longer in the libnwck-1-dev package | 01:11 |
| Keybuk | then another library it uses has libwnck as a dependency | 01:12 |
| Keybuk | grep "libwnck" /usr/lib/*.la | 01:12 |
| bddebian | But the only place I can find reference to it is in another .la | 01:12 |
| Keybuk | right | 01:12 |
| \sh | bddebian: that's the bugger then ;) | 01:12 |
| bddebian | Keybuk: I did that but the .la files are generated are they not? | 01:12 |
| Keybuk | they're generated when the package is built | 01:12 |
| Keybuk | so if a dependency of anjuta's hasn't been rebuilt, it may still be depending on libwnck | 01:12 |
| \sh | bddebian: mostly a rebuild of the broken package which has the wrong .la does help | 01:12 |
| bddebian | Grrr | 01:13 |
| bddebian | The ajunta author doesn't even build-dep libwnck | 01:13 |
| Keybuk | there should be a way to store dependencies inside .a files | 01:13 |
| Keybuk | then we wouldn't need .la files | 01:13 |
| Keybuk | bddebian: he almost certainly doesn't need to | 01:13 |
| bddebian | No? | 01:13 |
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| DaSkreech | Whats up with libcairo2? | 01:14 |
| Keybuk | DaSkreech: why don't you tell us? | 01:14 |
| DaSkreech | It's set to be upgraded but doing so breaks my system | 01:14 |
| Keybuk | how does your system break? | 01:14 |
| DaSkreech | Should it be set to upgradeable if it's breaky? | 01:14 |
| DaSkreech | Adept freaks | 01:15 |
| Keybuk | "freaks" | 01:15 |
| DaSkreech | It complains about package conflicts | 01:15 |
| Keybuk | edgy right? | 01:15 |
| DaSkreech | Unfortunately no | 01:15 |
| DaSkreech | I'm on Dapper | 01:15 |
| Keybuk | what's the conflict? | 01:15 |
| bddebian | \sh: ajunta is the broken package but it looks for /usr/lib/libnwck.la | 01:15 |
| Keybuk | we need explicit, accurate, verbose, details | 01:15 |
| DaSkreech | And it's jumping from version 1.1 to 1.2 | 01:16 |
| Keybuk | not wishy-washy hand-wavy things like "freaks" and "breaks" | 01:16 |
| DaSkreech | I'm looking it up now | 01:16 |
| DaSkreech | :-) I just wanted to know if it was a known thing :) | 01:16 |
| \sh | bddebian: as I said, someone else depends on libnwck and it wasn't rebuild | 01:16 |
| bddebian | \sh: Sorry, I don't understand that | 01:17 |
| Keybuk | bddebian: just accept it | 01:17 |
| Keybuk | you don't need to understand it | 01:17 |
| bddebian | I don't? | 01:17 |
| \sh | bddebian: if libwnck.la is not there anymore, and it shouldn't be there, there is another build-dep of anjuta, which is not rebuild, because it points to this .la file | 01:17 |
| bddebian | Ahhh, OK | 01:18 |
| \sh | bddebian: now, cd /usr/lib/ ; grep "libwnck.la" *.la | 01:18 |
| \sh | and you will find this lib which is using still "libwnck.la", then try to rebuild the package which provides this .la and try again | 01:18 |
| bddebian | No, it's an .la inside ajunta, I already know that | 01:19 |
| bddebian | devhelper.la or some such | 01:19 |
| Keybuk | oh, and libtool's picking up the installed anjuta's .la file? :p | 01:19 |
| Keybuk | and using it when rebuilding anjuta itself | 01:20 |
| bddebian | No libtool is failing becuase it isn't install either :-) | 01:20 |
| Keybuk | eh? | 01:20 |
| \sh | bddebian: give me a few minutes, and I have a look at it. ok_ | 01:20 |
| Keybuk | now you're flat-out making no sense | 01:20 |
| \sh | ? | 01:20 |
| === \sh missed all that | ||
| bddebian | Keybuk: sed: /usr/lib/libwnck.la no such file or directory | 01:20 |
| bddebian | then libtool: command not found | 01:21 |
| Keybuk | ?! why you using sed?! | 01:21 |
| Keybuk | \sh asked you to use grep! | 01:21 |
| bddebian | I am not | 01:21 |
| bddebian | Ohh, I am talking about the package | 01:21 |
| Keybuk | we've already told you, it's nothing to do with anjuta | 01:21 |
| \sh | bddebian: forget anjuta for a moment...use a chroot and install all build-deps of anjuta | 01:21 |
| Keybuk | anjuta is just linking to a broken library | 01:21 |
| Keybuk | it's that broken library that needs to be fixed | 01:21 |
| Keybuk | then anjuta will work | 01:21 |
| Keybuk | so ignore anjuta | 01:21 |
| bddebian | And I am telling you it is a .la in anjuta itself | 01:21 |
| bddebian | I have the build deps and no .la files in /usr/lib use libwnck.la | 01:22 |
| Keybuk | no it's not | 01:22 |
| Keybuk | if you're not going to listen, I'm not going to help you any more | 01:22 |
| \sh | bddebian: but you told us, that anjuta doesn't depend on anything which is libwnk | 01:22 |
| bddebian | \sh: No, I said the author doesn't build-dep libwnck | 01:22 |
| bddebian | It is a bug on BTS | 01:22 |
| \sh | bddebian: there... | 01:22 |
| bddebian | plugins/devhelp/libanjuta-devhelp.la:dependency_libs= | 01:23 |
| bddebian | Keybuk: I'm not trying to be difficult | 01:23 |
| Keybuk | bddebian: shut up | 01:23 |
| Keybuk | yes you are | 01:23 |
| Keybuk | you're asking for help, and not listening to people who are trying to help you | 01:24 |
| bddebian | Well I'm trying to but apparently not explaining myself well | 01:24 |
| Keybuk | you're explaining yourself just fine | 01:25 |
| Keybuk | we just know better than you | 01:25 |
| Keybuk | but you won't let us teach you | 01:25 |
| bddebian | OK | 01:25 |
| === bddebian shuts up | ||
| Keybuk | good | 01:25 |
| Keybuk | now; grep "libwnck" /usr/lib/*.la | 01:25 |
| bddebian | I did. No hits | 01:25 |
| Keybuk | ok, grep -r "-lwnck" . | 01:26 |
| Keybuk | (in the anjuta source tree) | 01:26 |
| bddebian | Yields the file I posted above | 01:26 |
| bddebian | plugins/devhelp/libanjuta-devhelp.la:dependency_libs= | 01:26 |
| Keybuk | no | 01:26 |
| Keybuk | it's not that file | 01:26 |
| Keybuk | another one | 01:26 |
| Keybuk | keep looking | 01:27 |
| Keybuk | actually, also grep "-lwnck" /usr/lib/*.la | 01:27 |
| Keybuk | you'll have to grep -- "-lwnck" obviously | 01:27 |
| Keybuk | any hits? | 01:28 |
| bddebian | Nothing matches -lwnck unless I am doing something majorly incorrect | 01:28 |
| Keybuk | right | 01:28 |
| Keybuk | hmm | 01:28 |
| Keybuk | grep "wnck" /usr/lib/*.la | 01:28 |
| Keybuk | any hits for that? | 01:28 |
| \sh | I'm checking | 01:29 |
| bddebian | Oh, glad maybe | 01:29 |
| bddebian | /usr/lib/libdevhelp-1.la: | 01:29 |
| Keybuk | aha | 01:30 |
| Keybuk | that's a good candidate | 01:30 |
| bddebian | shit, bbias, sorry | 01:30 |
| \sh | /usr/lib/libdevhelp-1.la:dependency_libs=' -R/usr/lib/firefox -L/usr/lib/firefox /usr/lib/libglade-2.0.la /usr/lib/libxml2.la /usr/lib/libpangoxft-1.0.la /usr/lib/libpangox-1.0.la /usr/lib/libxml2.la /usr/lib/libwnck-1.la /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.la /usr/lib/libstartup-notification-1.la -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lSM -lICE -lXRes /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.la /usr/lib/libgdk-x11-2.0.la /usr/lib/libatk-1.0.la /usr/lib/libgdk-x11-2.0.la /usr/lib/libpangocairo | 01:31 |
| \sh | a /usr/lib/libatk-1.0.la /usr/lib/libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.la /usr/lib/libpangocairo-1.0.la /usr/lib/libcairo.la /usr/lib/libpangoft2-1.0.la /usr/lib/libpango-1.0.la -lXext -lXinerama -lXi -lXrandr -lXcursor -lXfixes /usr/lib/libpango-1.0.la /usr/lib/libcairo.la -lXrender -lX11 -lpng12 -lfontconfig /usr/lib/libfreetype.la -lz /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.la /usr/lib/libgconf-2.la /usr/lib/libORBit-2.la /usr/lib/libORBit-2.la /usr/lib/libgmodule-2.0.la /usr/ | 01:31 |
| \sh | .0.la /usr/lib/libgthread-2.0.la -lm /usr/lib/libgmodule-2.0.la /usr/lib/libgthread-2.0.la /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.la /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.la -lgtkembedmoz -lxpcom -lplds4 -lplc4 -lnspr4 -lpthread -ldl' | 01:31 |
| \sh | first hit ;) | 01:31 |
| \sh | libdevhelp-1-dev: usr/lib/libdevhelp-1.la | 01:32 |
| \sh | try to rebuild this first ;) | 01:32 |
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| bddebian | Gah devhelp is in main | 01:40 |
| \sh | bddebian: doesn't matter...did the rebuild worked? | 01:40 |
| \sh | devhelp needs to be merged anyways | 01:42 |
| \sh | Keybuk: when is mom running and updating the stats pages? | 01:43 |
| jsgotangco | good morning | 01:43 |
| \sh | hey jsgotangco | 01:43 |
| Keybuk | \sh: hourly | 01:43 |
| jsgotangco | hi \sh! | 01:43 |
| \sh | Keybuk: I just ask because e.g. afterstep is gone from the merges page, but doesn't show up in the "updated merges" section | 01:45 |
| Keybuk | is there a new Debian upload then? | 01:45 |
| Keybuk | ah, maybe there's confusion | 01:46 |
| Keybuk | the top list ("outstanding merges") is things which haven't seen an upload to edgy yet | 01:46 |
| Keybuk | so probably haven't been merged ever | 01:46 |
| Keybuk | the things in the "updated merges" list HAVE had uploads to edgy | 01:46 |
| Keybuk | so have probably been merged | 01:46 |
| \sh | Keybuk: afterstep was in the list, I did the merge today, and bddebian uploaded for me :) | 01:46 |
| Keybuk | right | 01:46 |
| Keybuk | so his upload would have cancelled the need for a merge | 01:47 |
| Keybuk | Ubuntu is "up to date" | 01:47 |
| \sh | Keybuk: ah you mean, the lower section is "uploaded already just before mom was running" | 01:47 |
| Keybuk | when a new Debian upload happens (Ubuntu is out of date) then it'll appear in the "Updated Merges" list | 01:47 |
| Keybuk | it's especially important for main | 01:47 |
| Keybuk | everything must be merged at least once | 01:48 |
| Keybuk | so we want to clear the top list | 01:48 |
| Keybuk | and then review the second list for anything important (looking at the version skew) | 01:48 |
| Keybuk | and do that list if we have time | 01:48 |
| Keybuk | it's impossible to have zero merges, after all :p | 01:48 |
| \sh | Keybuk: ah .. now I understand :) | 01:48 |
| \sh | well...some of the main merges are still on my laptop... | 01:48 |
| Keybuk | cause if we managed to get them to zero | 01:48 |
| Keybuk | then Debian would do some updates that day, and there'd be merges again! :D | 01:49 |
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| Hobbsee | morning all | 02:05 |
| \sh | uh...NMU from debian is wrong | 02:09 |
| licio | here is night :) | 02:09 |
| \sh | here is morning...early morning ;) | 02:10 |
| Hobbsee | 10am here - monday | 02:10 |
| licio | :) | 02:10 |
| licio | 21pm here - sunday | 02:11 |
| licio | :) | 02:11 |
| licio | I'm sleepy | 02:11 |
| \sh | 02:11am here - monday | 02:12 |
| licio | bye all | 02:13 |
| licio | I'm going to bed | 02:13 |
| Hobbsee | night licio | 02:14 |
| licio | Hobbsee, morning :) | 02:14 |
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| Burgundavia | \sh: flue is a part of the chimney. Flu is the sickness :) | 04:22 |
| bddebian | heh | 04:22 |
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| \sh | Burgundavia: oh damn | 04:42 |
| \sh | you see I'm sick ;) | 04:43 |
| \sh | fixed | 04:43 |
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| Burgundavia | \sh_away: no worries | 04:58 |
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| TTT_Travis | I am trying to compile and this is the error I get after about an hour: http://pastebin.ca/77532 | 06:09 |
| Lathiat | TTT_Travis: This is the wrong channel for support with that, try #ubuntu | 06:10 |
| TTT_Travis | ok | 06:11 |
| TTT_Travis | thanks | 06:11 |
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| pitti | Good morning! | 07:19 |
| jsgotangco | hi pitti! | 07:20 |
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| pitti | hi jsgotangco | 07:28 |
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| crimsun | 'morning pitti. When you're less busy, please check the openvpn debdiff on security-review in may 2006 (malone bug 45827) | 07:34 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 45827 in openvpn "openvpn old security problems (Breezy)" [Medium,In progress] http://launchpad.net/bugs/45827 | 07:34 |
| pitti | crimsun: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/security-review/2006-May/000405.html ? That looks empty | 07:37 |
| pitti | crimsun: and I do not have that in my mailbox for some reason | 07:37 |
| pitti | crimsun: maybe you can attach the debdiffs to the bug? | 07:37 |
| crimsun | pitti: I'll resend inline (again) | 07:38 |
| crimsun | err, attach I mean | 07:39 |
| crimsun | sent. | 07:40 |
| fabbione | morning | 07:45 |
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| whiprush | jdub: awake? | 07:52 |
| Burgundavia | hey whiprush, shouldn't you be asleep? | 07:53 |
| whiprush | Burgundavia: yeah, but it's a holiday here, so long nites, lots of beer, etc. etc. | 07:53 |
| Burgundavia | whiprush: ah, you lucky thing. I just left the US, just before the 4th and after the 1st (our holiday) :( | 07:54 |
| whiprush | I just picked up the Ubuntu Hacks book (which is excellent btw), and I wanted to blog about it, but I think I'm broken on planet.u.c. :-/ | 07:54 |
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| fabbione | crimsun: ping? | 07:58 |
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| crimsun | fabbione: pong (sorry, phone) | 08:10 |
| fabbione | crimsun: did you coordinate your xorg-server upload to dapper-updates with somebody from the x team? | 08:11 |
| crimsun | fabbione: that was an accidental upload, and I asked for it to be rejected | 08:11 |
| fabbione | ok | 08:11 |
| crimsun | fabbione: the correct one was for xserver-xorg-input-mouse, which mdz approved in bug 38272 | 08:12 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 38272 in xserver-xorg-input-mouse "option EmulateWheelTimeout not working" [Medium,Fix released] http://launchpad.net/bugs/38272 | 08:12 |
| fabbione | okydoky | 08:13 |
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| pitti | siretart: ping | 09:14 |
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| siretart | pitti: morning! | 09:21 |
| pitti | siretart: I test and upload the new cdbs now | 09:22 |
| pitti | siretart: I just saw that you already merged | 09:22 |
| pitti | we need it as build-dep for e. g. pyxdg | 09:22 |
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| siretart | pitti: it didn't build for me for some reason why I merged it, but I was quite sure that it wasn't because of the merge | 09:23 |
| siretart | pitti: anyway, I didn't want to upload untested stuff, which didn't work for me | 09:23 |
| siretart | pitti: if it does for you, just upload whats in the bzr branch | 09:23 |
| pitti | siretart: I'll do some test builds anyway | 09:23 |
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| pitti | siretart: all tests passed and the package builds; what failed for you? | 09:24 |
| Kagou | hi pitti :) the new print system included in gtk2.10 will be used for edgy ? | 09:25 |
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| pitti | Kagou: well, the gnome apps certainly will | 09:25 |
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| Kagou | pitti: we will continu using g-c-m ? | 09:26 |
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| pitti | Kagou: if someone comes along and adapts redhat's tool to Ubuntu, we'll gladly use it | 09:27 |
| Kagou | ok :) | 09:27 |
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| fabbione | hey mvo | 09:28 |
| pitti | hi ivoks | 09:28 |
| siretart | pitti: the testcase failed in 2 or 3 tests | 09:28 |
| fabbione | mvo: you should be good to re-enable selinux support in device-mapper and lvm2 | 09:28 |
| ivoks | hi pitti | 09:28 |
| siretart | pitti: I didn't have the time to investigate the failure, wanted to do it this weekend, but forgot it. sorry :( | 09:28 |
| mvo | fabbione: ok, will do | 09:28 |
| fabbione | mvo: you want to do dm first, and lvm2 later with a versioned B-D | 09:28 |
| fabbione | mvo: to make sure to build with the right dm | 09:29 |
| fabbione | mvo: great thanks | 09:29 |
| siretart | pitti: s/testcase/testsuite/ | 09:29 |
| pitti | siretart: hm, not here; and g-v-m builds fine, doing two other test builds here | 09:30 |
| pitti | s/here$/now/ | 09:30 |
| pitti | doko_: ping | 09:31 |
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| siretart | anyone knows how often NEW packages from debian are synced to ubuntu/edgy? | 09:35 |
| siretart | I know about a package in debian which I'm waiting to appear in edgy for quite some days... | 09:36 |
| pitti | siretart: hm, indeed, with the old cdbs installed, the testsuite passes, now with the new one isntalled it fails 3 cases | 09:43 |
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| siretart | pitti: now I'm a bit confused, because doesn't the cdbs testsuite use the cdbs classes from inside the package? | 09:50 |
| pitti | siretart: actually yes | 09:50 |
| pitti | siretart: and I just noticed that I installed my debug symbol stripper wrapper; this could cause the regressions | 09:50 |
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| pitti | dholbach! Guten Morgen, Alter! :-P | 09:52 |
| pitti | siretart: ah, that was it. panic mode off then :) | 09:52 |
| dholbach | good morning! | 09:52 |
| dholbach | hey pitti, ALTER! | 09:52 |
| doko | pitti: pong | 09:53 |
| dholbach | hey doko | 09:53 |
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| pitti | doko: will you merge python-support soon? it's required as build-dep of e. g. pyxdg | 09:55 |
| pitti | siretart: ok, works fine here with test suite, postgresql, g-v-m, and my debug strip test suite. away with it! :) | 09:55 |
| siretart | pitti: excellent | 09:55 |
| pitti | siretart: (also tested with dash and bash) | 09:56 |
| === siretart begins to fall in love with bzr mantained packages :) | ||
| crimsun | they are nice | 09:56 |
| doko | pitti: hmm, thought mvo would do it ... | 09:57 |
| doko | pitti: anyway, I can do it. | 09:57 |
| pitti | doko: the only difference is that we do not build 2.3 stuff, right? | 09:57 |
| pitti | doko: (diff to Debian) | 09:58 |
| mvo | doko: oh, that was a misunderstanding, I was asking for it | 09:58 |
| pitti | gar, why did I end up having to do the mesa merge? | 09:59 |
| Yagisan | pitti: you like the pain ? | 09:59 |
| pitti | hi Yagisan | 10:00 |
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| Yagisan | G'day pitti. for the -ssp arch. Is is up yet ? | 10:00 |
| pitti | wow, and an 1.1 MB ubuntu patch | 10:00 |
| pitti | Yagisan: YES!!!!1!!! :-) | 10:00 |
| pitti | Yagisan: packages build with ssp on since Friday | 10:01 |
| Yagisan | pitti: ok. all packages ? | 10:01 |
| pitti | yes, it was globally turned on in gcc | 10:01 |
| siretart | pitti: how do you coordinate merges? | 10:01 |
| Yagisan | pitti: ok. Could you pm me details, I'll put it on a production web server | 10:01 |
| pitti | siretart: the default claimer is the name on the {main,universe}.html page | 10:01 |
| pitti | siretart: if you want to merge something else, ping the default claimer before | 10:02 |
| siretart | pitti: so basically the last uploader. I see | 10:02 |
| siretart | I was wondering how we'll manage universe | 10:02 |
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| crimsun | siretart: pretty much the same way, no? I've been going through the ones with my name beside it | 10:05 |
| siretart | pitti: thanks for sponsoring ;) | 10:05 |
| siretart | crimsun: Let's do so for now, and look in the last week for missing merges | 10:06 |
| siretart | crimsun: I fear that there may be poeple less active in edgy than in dapper | 10:06 |
| \sh | siretart: I'm doing my merges first, from last time, and then working from top to bottom | 10:10 |
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| tseng | morn pitti | 10:22 |
| pitti | hi tseng | 10:22 |
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| tseng | can you please look at the inclusion report for XSP again? | 10:22 |
| tseng | whenever you can.. and tell me if you still want it split up | 10:23 |
| pitti | tseng: uh, you really want the web server in main? | 10:23 |
| fabbione | uh? | 10:24 |
| tseng | not really, no | 10:24 |
| pitti | there was a recent vulnerability in it, was that fixed? | 10:24 |
| tseng | yes. | 10:24 |
| Kamion | crimsun: rejected xorg-server from dapper-updates per request | 10:24 |
| tseng | I can fight with Debian about where to put the script, then. | 10:24 |
| tseng | discuss nicely, I mean | 10:25 |
| pitti | tseng: :) | 10:25 |
| crimsun | Kamion: thank you | 10:27 |
| Kamion | (and accepted xserver-xorg-input-mouse) | 10:28 |
| crimsun | (thank you!) | 10:28 |
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| \sh | Kamion: thx for the sync | 10:40 |
| \sh | s | 10:40 |
| pitti | mjg59: ping | 10:40 |
| phanatic | Kamion: ping | 10:41 |
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| mjg59 | pitti: Hi | 10:42 |
| pitti | mjg59: do you know a bit about mesa? the current MoM merge is nothing but a mess | 10:42 |
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| Kamion | phanatic: hi | 10:43 |
| pitti | Kamion: do you care about libsdl1.2debian-udeb? | 10:43 |
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| pitti | Kamion: in Debian, it builds a directfb video backend and not much else | 10:43 |
| pitti | probably for a graphic installer | 10:43 |
| fabbione | pitti: g-i | 10:43 |
| Kamion | pitti: not at present, but the graphical installer will eventually want it | 10:43 |
| Kamion | should go to universe for now | 10:43 |
| pitti | Kamion: so, ok if I disable the package for now? | 10:43 |
| Kamion | pitti: sure | 10:43 |
| pitti | or universe, works for me as well | 10:44 |
| Kamion | I guess you can't build it in main, can you? | 10:44 |
| pitti | Kamion: I removed the directfb build-dep | 10:44 |
| Kamion | I wouldn't mind sucking the build-deps into main, if we can do that reasonably | 10:44 |
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| pitti | Kamion: so the udeb is fairly useless for now | 10:44 |
| phanatic | Kamion: hi, i had a sponsored upload by siretart to dapper-updates (sysinfoi package) a few weeks ago, but it wasn't approved. is something missing? | 10:44 |
| seb128 | pitti: what are you trying to kick to universe? directfb? | 10:44 |
| pitti | seb128: it's already in universe | 10:44 |
| seb128 | pitti: because new libcairo and GTK 2.10 I'm about to package needs it | 10:45 |
| pitti | oh, ok | 10:45 |
| fabbione | pitti: i am afraid it's a useless attempt | 10:45 |
| seb128 | GTK has a directfb backend now | 10:45 |
| fabbione | sooner or later we will suck in g-i | 10:45 |
| pitti | alright | 10:45 |
| fabbione | and all its dependencies | 10:45 |
| Kamion | seb128: I'd very much like that in main; then we can start syncing cdebconf rather than merging it | 10:45 |
| pitti | then we'll move directfb into main and I build the sdl udeb | 10:45 |
| Kamion | phanatic: looking | 10:45 |
| siretart | Kamion: Keybuk said that ubuntu-archive wouldn't know how to sync to dapper-backports, is that right? | 10:45 |
| seb128 | pitti: could you take care of the main promotion? :) | 10:45 |
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| phanatic | Kamion: thanks | 10:46 |
| pitti | seb128: seems to be fairly harmless anyway | 10:46 |
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| Kamion | phanatic: it appears to have been manually rejected | 10:50 |
| Kamion | phanatic: did neither you nor siretart get mail about it? | 10:50 |
| phanatic | Kamion: no, at least i did not | 10:50 |
| phanatic | Kamion: why was it rejected? | 10:50 |
| Kamion | siretart: I know how to do it, but the script in question has not yet been ported to soyuz; I began work on that last night | 10:51 |
| Kamion | phanatic: I don't know; rejects don't have reasons attached to them in the database at present - that's why I was hoping you'd have got mail | 10:51 |
| Kamion | mdz: did you reject sysinfo from dapper-updates? | 10:51 |
| mjg59 | pitti: What's the Debian version now? | 10:51 |
| mjg59 | pitti: We can probably drop all Ubuntu patches | 10:52 |
| pitti | mjg59: 6.4.2-1 | 10:52 |
| mjg59 | Oh, argh. That's going to be awkward. | 10:53 |
| pitti | mjg59: even our binary package names do not match | 10:53 |
| Kamion | phanatic: try sending mail to ubuntu-archive@lists.ubuntu.com to see if any of the other archive admins know | 10:53 |
| mjg59 | pitti: You'll want to talk to Daniel about binary package names | 10:53 |
| pitti | right | 10:53 |
| Kamion | phanatic: feel free to cite this conversation | 10:53 |
| phanatic | Kamion: thanks, i'll do that | 10:53 |
| pitti | eventually we need to get back in sync with Debian wrt. X | 10:53 |
| mjg59 | Any of the patches I added can be dropped | 10:53 |
| fabbione | pitti: is that for mesa? | 10:53 |
| pitti | mjg59: ah, good to know; thanks! | 10:54 |
| pitti | fabbione: yes | 10:54 |
| mjg59 | We'll fix those up again afterwards | 10:54 |
| fabbione | pitti: better you leave it to infinity | 10:54 |
| pitti | fabbione: the merge is assigned to me since I added a pot file as last uploader | 10:54 |
| pitti | fabbione: I'd love to get rid of it :) | 10:54 |
| fabbione | pitti: yeah but it doesn't mean you are forced to do it NOW. coordinate it with adam because he was already looking at it | 10:54 |
| pitti | but this package needs to be merged together with the rest of X | 10:54 |
| Kamion | Adam is on vacation this week, and X needs to be got out of the way | 10:55 |
| fabbione | Kamion: yes i am aware of Adam vac. mesa has been source of different troubles due to excessive renaming of pkgs | 10:56 |
| fabbione | that's why i was suggesting to let it to Adam. | 10:56 |
| fabbione | he did most of those transitions with daniels | 10:56 |
| Kamion | as I say, I think we are running short on time and need to get this at least started before Adam gets back | 10:57 |
| siretart | Kamion: ah, so I was right about the procedure how to request syncs to dapper-backports | 10:57 |
| Kamion | I do not think we can afford to wait a week | 10:57 |
| Mithrandir | Kamion: I'd really like to have a bootable and somewhat-working -desktop in about a week too, for the first knot. | 10:57 |
| siretart | keybuks mail made me wonder if I missed something | 10:57 |
| Kamion | indeed | 10:57 |
| Kamion | siretart: since elmo stopped doing archive maintenance, there's never been a defined procedure | 10:58 |
| Kamion | siretart: filing bugs and ccing ubuntu-archive is as good as any other procedure one might invent, I think | 10:58 |
| siretart | Kamion: at the TB meeting I asked mdz, and he confirmed that this would be a job for ubuntu-archive. and that we could upload directly now to dapper-backports if needed.. | 10:59 |
| Kamion | siretart: I'd like to have a little time to see if the script is easy to port to soyuz | 10:59 |
| pitti | siretart: directly upload to d-backports? that sounds evil | 11:00 |
| Kamion | I'm certainly less comfortable with that myself | 11:00 |
| tseng | I am told coredev has that power now | 11:01 |
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| siretart | pitti: only core-dev, and only for very small changes like updated build-dependency and such | 11:01 |
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| Kamion | tseng: technical power yes, but it still has to go through archive admins for approval, and (as far as I'm concerned) it won't get that until we've at least made a token attempt to port the backporting script | 11:01 |
| siretart | Kamion: take your time | 11:01 |
| pitti | slomo: I'm currently merging sdl, btw | 11:02 |
| slomo | pitti: ok, np :) why don't you wait for directfb? | 11:03 |
| pitti | slomo: you mean directfb needs to be merged as well? | 11:03 |
| dholbach | pitti: mvo asked for a sync | 11:03 |
| pitti | slomo: no, we have the latest debian version | 11:03 |
| slomo | pitti: no... directfb in main | 11:03 |
| fabbione | pitti: should we take a look at that dovecot thingy? | 11:04 |
| Kamion | dholbach: that got processed a while back | 11:04 |
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| dholbach | Kamion: yeah, I should have said "there's no merge to do" :-) | 11:05 |
| dholbach | Kamion: how are you? | 11:05 |
| Kamion | dholbach: a touch hungover but otherwise ok :) | 11:06 |
| Kamion | importing base-installer into bzr pre-merge | 11:06 |
| dholbach | :-))) | 11:06 |
| dholbach | nice | 11:06 |
| === ChipX86 is now known as ChipX86|Sleep | ||
| pitti | slomo: yes, see discussion above, we need it anyway | 11:12 |
| pitti | fabbione: can you give me another 30 minutes or so? | 11:13 |
| fabbione | pitti: yes, i am looking at how upstream broke in the meantime | 11:13 |
| slomo | pitti: joined only 13 minutes ago ;) can you paste me the discussion? | 11:13 |
| tseng | slomo: the summary was | 11:16 |
| tseng | pitti: kamion: do you care about directfb udeb; kamion: no; pitti: ok i will stop building it (or move to universe) | 11:16 |
| slomo | tseng: thanks | 11:16 |
| Kamion | erm | 11:16 |
| Kamion | to clarify, pitti asked me about libsdl1.2debian-udeb, not directfb-udeb | 11:17 |
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| tseng | oh right, off by one | 11:17 |
| seb128 | can anybody tell me what is happening to evolution-data-server 1.7.3 build? | 11:22 |
| seb128 | according to the corresponding launchpad page it's neither built, nor building, nor waiting for build | 11:23 |
| seb128 | nor listed by any other category | 11:23 |
| tseng | https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue?queue_state=3&queue_text=evolution | 11:25 |
| tseng | according to this it is "done" | 11:25 |
| tseng | unclear on what that means | 11:26 |
| seb128 | tseng: if you click on "View Builds", it's not listed though | 11:27 |
| tseng | right | 11:28 |
| fabbione | tseng: evolution != evolution-data-server ? | 11:28 |
| tseng | fabbione: its a search | 11:28 |
| tseng | WHERE foo LIKE "%mysearch%" | 11:28 |
| fabbione | oh ok | 11:28 |
| crimsun | doko: ping, is Ubuntu's lib32asound2 supposed to conflict with ia32-libs (<< 1.9) ? | 11:34 |
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| pitti | hi ogra | 11:37 |
| pitti | ogra: I just finished merging dhcp3, and it seems to work fine | 11:37 |
| pitti | ogra: I also left revert-next-server.dpatch | 11:38 |
| pitti | ogra: s/left/kept/ | 11:38 |
| fabbione | pitti: i am writing to the debian maintainer and dovecot upstream | 11:39 |
| fabbione | we should take the same direction here to fix it all over | 11:40 |
| pitti | fabbione: the DD is quite responsive | 11:40 |
| fabbione | otherwise it will be a mess | 11:40 |
| pitti | right | 11:40 |
| \sh | hmmm | 11:43 |
| \sh | I think I found a really strange but | 11:43 |
| \sh | bug | 11:43 |
| \sh | create a /var partition and everything what needs /var/run (most of the init scripts) are failing | 11:44 |
| \sh | I just rechecked, and removed the /var partition and everything works | 11:44 |
| \sh | (dapper it is) | 11:44 |
| ogra | pitti, yay, thanks :) | 11:45 |
| pitti | fabbione: ok, I'm done so far; shall I still look into anything? | 11:45 |
| fabbione | pitti: your inbox for now. | 11:46 |
| pitti | ok | 11:46 |
| \sh | yes, it doesn't mount /var/run as tmpfs and failes completly... | 11:47 |
| fabbione | pitti: if you feel like looking at the code, it is clear how the thing went all downhill | 11:47 |
| fabbione | pitti: 0.99.14 had one and only one declaration of SUBSCRIPTIO_ | 11:47 |
| fabbione | SUBSCRIPTION_FILENAME | 11:47 |
| fabbione | while it has been broken down in different storage libs in 1.0 | 11:47 |
| fabbione | becoming inconsistent | 11:47 |
| pitti | fabbione: thanks for the heads-up; I basically agree to your proposal | 11:50 |
| \sh | https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/initscripts/+bug/51452 | 11:51 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 51452 in initscripts "missing /var/run in root partition fails many services" [Untriaged,Confirmed] | 11:51 |
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| fabbione | Kamion: 45523 -> rejected. He didn't create a separate /boot and none of our booloaders can boot from lvm | 11:56 |
| fabbione | not lvm2 at least | 11:56 |
| \sh | hmmm..how can I see the last uploader of a package in LP? | 11:57 |
| \sh | hmpf...keybuk is not here :( | 11:57 |
| fabbione | pitti: score.. upstream is doing it for us :) | 11:58 |
| dholbach | did anybody remove UniverseFreeze from EdgyReleaseSchedule and the UniverseFreeze wiki page? | 11:59 |
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| dholbach | ok, the UniverseFreeze page was still there, I linked it from EdgyReleaseSchedule again | 12:02 |
| Kamion | fabbione: well he says it works fine if he installs the bootloader by hand | 12:06 |
| Kamion | fabbione: so no, I think rejected would be inappropriate | 12:06 |
| Kamion | \sh: e.g. https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/sysvinit and look at the "Creator" field | 12:07 |
| Kamion | it's badly named, but it means "last uploader" | 12:08 |
| Kinnison | Kamion: No, it means "last person listed in changelog" really | 12:08 |
| fabbione | Kamion: he is forcing lilo. It will break at the first upgrade. iirc we went trough this in breezy already. | 12:08 |
| fabbione | (kernel upgrade that's it) | 12:09 |
| Kinnison | Kamion: the dscsigningkey indicates the uploader really | 12:09 |
| Kamion | fabbione: *shrug* it's only a matter of re-running lilo. sure, it's not perfect, but I do not think it justifies going around rejecting all bugs about it | 12:09 |
| Kamion | Kinnison: oh, right, true | 12:09 |
| Kamion | fabbione: I talked with Adam about that at UDS-Paris, and we noted that folks who've been using lilo forever tend to paranoidly rerun lilo -v after every upgrade anyway, so it's no big deal for them if the kernel upgrade doesn't do it for them | 12:10 |
| fabbione | Kamion: oh the problem is lilo not understanding a bunch of LVM2 things and break | 12:11 |
| fabbione | Kamion: but ok.. if you are sure it will work, i am ok with that | 12:11 |
| === fabbione -> food | ||
| \sh | hmmm..I think in /lib/init/functions.sh: function domount ... the "if mountpoint -q $2" is the problem... | 12:11 |
| Kamion | well the submitter reckons it works for him once he sets it up by hand ... | 12:11 |
| Kamion | so I don't really need to be sure :) | 12:12 |
| pitti | fabbione: wow, that was fast | 12:12 |
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| pitti | hey sabdfl! | 12:16 |
| \sh | moins sabdfl | 12:16 |
| thom | sabdfl: your talk at AC seems to have gone down well! | 12:17 |
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| tseng | lo thom | 12:17 |
| thom | heyhi | 12:18 |
| \sh | anyone interested in fixing #51452 with me? | 12:18 |
| pitti | \sh: how did you manage to get /var/run removed? | 12:19 |
| \sh | pitti: no..I created a separate /var partition....and /var/run is not being mounted at all... | 12:19 |
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| \sh | pitti: if I partition without a separate /var partition everything works fine | 12:19 |
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| pitti | \sh: ah, ok. Well, that sounds like PEBCAK then - you'll miss /var/lib etc, too | 12:19 |
| pitti | \sh: ah, I see | 12:20 |
| pitti | \sh: you created /var in the installer, not in the isntalled system | 12:20 |
| sabdfl | moin moin \sh, pitti | 12:20 |
| pitti | bug 51452 | 12:20 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 51452 in initscripts "missing /var/run in root partition fails many services" [Untriaged,Confirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/51452 | 12:20 |
| sabdfl | thom: thanks! i didn't get many questions so was a little worried that i put them all to sleep | 12:20 |
| sabdfl | or didn't fully wake them up after the night before :-) | 12:21 |
| thom | sabdfl: lots of interest on planetapahce.org | 12:21 |
| thom | heh | 12:21 |
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| \sh | pitti: what I don't understand is the first term in /lib/init/functions.sh: domount() ==> >> if [ ! -d $2 ] then return fi << means to me, if the directory /var/run does not exists, return to caller. But wouldn't it be better to just create the missing directory then? | 12:22 |
| pitti | \sh: where is this function called? | 12:23 |
| \sh | pitti: in mountvirtfs | 12:23 |
| \sh | /etc/init.d/mountvirtfs | 12:24 |
| \sh | # /var may be on another drive so create /var/run if we need to | 12:24 |
| \sh | domount tmpfs /var/run "-o mode=0755" | 12:24 |
| pitti | \sh: hm, but domount is also used for /proc and /sys | 12:24 |
| pitti | \sh: and an admin might not want these | 12:24 |
| ogra | \sh, you need to move the data over ... just creating the dir might not be enough ... | 12:24 |
| pitti | \sh: so instead of changing this in domount(), I'd rather stick a mkdir -p /var/run into it | 12:25 |
| \sh | ogra: there no data actually, it's while booting the system | 12:25 |
| pitti | \sh: so the comment clearly doesn't match the code :) | 12:25 |
| ogra | i.e. /var/run is created in initramfs ... then your kernel boots and fstab is executed and /var is mounted on top of that | 12:25 |
| ogra | then everything in /var/run that was created before is lost ... | 12:25 |
| ogra | i thought keybuk had adressed that | 12:26 |
| \sh | ogra: I don't boot with initramfs... | 12:26 |
| ogra | that might be your prob then :) | 12:26 |
| \sh | but it does the same when I used the default kernel | 12:26 |
| \sh | which I'm doing right now actually ;) | 12:26 |
| \sh | 2.6.15-23-amd64-server | 12:27 |
| \sh | pitti: I did "if [ ! -d $2 ] then mkdir -p $2 fi but it didn't help. | 12:28 |
| pitti | \sh: (I hope that's a copy&paste bug) | 12:29 |
| \sh | forget the " and put some \n in ;) | 12:29 |
| pitti | \sh: hm, if that's a bug in the initramfs stuff, then Keybuk might be the best person to talk to | 12:29 |
| ajmitch | evening all | 12:30 |
| pitti | hey ajmitch | 12:30 |
| \sh | pitti: the question is, what if I don't use a kernel with initramfs, because I need to use a selfmade kernel, where most of the stuff we need is compiled in...and we don't want to use an initrd. | 12:31 |
| pitti | \sh: hm, then I don't understand why the mkdir -p doesn't work | 12:31 |
| sivang | morning | 12:32 |
| \sh | pitti: well yes, I'm totally confused...think I'll have a smoke and a cup of coffee...and then another try..need to fix it | 12:33 |
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| pitti | slomo: libvisual approved | 12:35 |
| slomo | doko: will you upload python-stdlib-extensions to ubuntu soon or request a sync? we need python-gdbm back ;) | 12:35 |
| slomo | pitti: thanks :) | 12:35 |
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| doko | slomo: it should be automatically synced, there's no ubuntu version | 12:37 |
| \sh | pitti: I'm installing the machine with another kernel (selfmade)..takes only 30 seconds ;) | 12:37 |
| slomo | doko: hm, for two other NEW packages i had to file a sync request because they weren't synced automatically | 12:37 |
| Kamion | it's semi-automatic | 12:38 |
| Kamion | we have a report on the missing ones | 12:38 |
| Kamion | nudge Keybuk about it next time he's aroundd | 12:39 |
| slomo | ok, thanks | 12:40 |
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| pitti | hi rodarvus | 12:41 |
| rodarvus | good morning | 12:42 |
| rodarvus | hi pitti | 12:42 |
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| irvin | mvo, can i bother you for a few minutes? | 12:55 |
| sivang | hey pitti | 12:56 |
| pitti | hi sivang | 12:56 |
| mvo | irvin: hello, yeah, go ahead | 12:57 |
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| mdke | pitti: seems that cups-pdf doesn't work out of the box without doing "sudo chmod +s /usr/lib/cups/backend/cups-pdf", do you know if this is easy to solve? (bug #42147) | 01:02 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 42147 in cups-pdf ""PDF Printer" does no not show up in "existing printers" (Dapper)" [Untriaged,Confirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/42147 | 01:02 |
| pitti | mdke: not really, unless you create a directory in your ~ that the cupsys user can write into | 01:02 |
| mdke | pitti: so chmod +s is a bad solution? | 01:02 |
| pitti | mdke: well, it's good enough if you know what you are doing | 01:03 |
| mdke | pitti: what knowledge does it need? | 01:03 |
| \sh | pitti: it doesn't work either with a selfmade kernel, without initrd and initramfs | 01:03 |
| pitti | mdke: but I never audited cups-pdf whether it's suitable for suid root operation | 01:03 |
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| mdke | so we shouldn't really recommend that solution in documentation? | 01:03 |
| pitti | mdke: hm, no idea, really. If you really need it and don't use gnome apps or OO.o (which can do PDF natively), then, well, it's a good workaround | 01:06 |
| mdke | pitti: right. | 01:08 |
| mdke | pitti: thanks! | 01:10 |
| pitti | Kamion: ok, directfb and libmpeg3 approved for main | 01:14 |
| mjg59 | What are we doing with directfb? | 01:15 |
| jdub | (*and*... why is libmpeg* still in main?) | 01:15 |
| fabbione | mjg59: coffee, the and biscuits? ;) | 01:16 |
| pitti | jdub: libsdl1.2, graphical d-i, gtk 2.10 | 01:17 |
| pitti | mjg59: ^ | 01:17 |
| ogra | jdub, ask KDE :P | 01:18 |
| pitti | jdub: libmpeg3 was in main in hoary, and in universe since then | 01:18 |
| pitti | jdub: now it comes back due to directfb | 01:18 |
| ogra | oh, right that was libmad | 01:18 |
| pitti | jdub: libmpeg3 bad? | 01:18 |
| mjg59 | Ah, right | 01:20 |
| jdub | some day, graphical d-i will be sane and use kdrive/similar | 01:22 |
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| jdub | pitti: patent-encumbered up the wazoo | 01:22 |
| fabbione | jdub: you really should maintain X a bit before saying somthing like that :) | 01:22 |
| mjg59 | kdrive is pretty straightforward | 01:23 |
| mjg59 | And we've already got it in the archive | 01:23 |
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| fabbione | mjg59: how portable is it? | 01:23 |
| pitti | jdub: so, shall I un-approve libmpeg3, and instead try to build directfb without it? | 01:23 |
| jdub | and it's not evil/slow/yuck | 01:23 |
| jdub | pitti: that'd be rad - for edgy, i'd like to get rid of all of them | 01:23 |
| pitti | ok | 01:24 |
| ogra | jdub, you cant get rid of libmad as long as KDE is in main | 01:25 |
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| jdub | ogra: we've did it before (fixing xine) | 01:25 |
| ogra | its deeply woven in ... | 01:25 |
| === Fujitsu snips the threads and de-weaves it. | ||
| fabbione | ogra: i am pretty sure you can build KDE without libmad | 01:26 |
| ogra | fabbione, not according to the KDE people i spoke to (i havent looked myself yet) | 01:26 |
| mjg59 | fabbione: Uses framebuffer | 01:26 |
| slomo | jdub: you will be my hero when you get all the ugly stuff out of main for edgy :) | 01:26 |
| jdub | if we have to fix a broken KDE attitude towards putting their distributors in jail, then that's what we have to do :-) | 01:26 |
| Kamion | mjg59: that's much slower though, right? the directfb advocates note that it makes much better use of hardware acceleration | 01:27 |
| jdub | Kamion: it's all bollocks (based on benchmarks i read last week) | 01:28 |
| Kamion | and I don't want an X-a-like in d-i any more than the last seventeen times we've talked about this, personally | 01:28 |
| mjg59 | We don't use accelerated framebuffers anyway | 01:28 |
| jdub | Kamion: up to 10 times slower than GTK+ on X | 01:28 |
| Kamion | jdub: interesting | 01:28 |
| === pitti goes to un-libmpeg3-ify directfb | ||
| jdub | Kamion: (and down to 4 times slower, roughly) | 01:28 |
| Kamion | but anyway, if you want d-i to change, go upstream - I'm not involved in graphical d-i any more, to a good first approximation | 01:29 |
| jdub | Kamion: (none of the gtk+/gnome embedded folks are planning to use it, based on quite a few independent benchmarks) | 01:29 |
| mjg59 | Kamion: Directfb doesn't support vga16 (so we have problems with compatibility), vesafb is not usefully accelerated, and the specific framebuffers don't tend to work usefully on modern hardware | 01:29 |
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| fabbione | do we really care so much about speed in the installer? | 01:32 |
| fabbione | i mean.. it's not like we are playing quake 4 while we wait | 01:33 |
| pitti | fabbione: you don't? | 01:33 |
| pitti | fabbione: just throw a grenade at packages you want installed :) | 01:33 |
| fabbione | pitti: ahah | 01:33 |
| fabbione | hmm that would be fun. your system install better as you hit more enemies | 01:34 |
| fabbione | each time you die a random package is purged | 01:34 |
| pitti | 'meet the Ubuntu devs in the Quake arena!' | 01:34 |
| Kamion | fabbione: yes; it's pretty noticeable if the screen takes a large fraction of a second to redraw | 01:42 |
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| crimsun | Kamion: is there a failed upload of openvpn for breezy-security? | 01:46 |
| fabbione | Kamion: yes but again installer is not glxgears ;) | 01:47 |
| Kamion | fabbione: it's actually pretty noticeable on some hardware even at the moment, and I get bug reports about it | 01:47 |
| Kamion | though admittedly certain vmware versions are the worst hit - but still | 01:47 |
| mjg59 | Kamion: There's a tradeoff - using vesafb provides other amusing issues | 01:48 |
| Kamion | crimsun: Rejected: The key used to sign openvpn_2.0.2-1ubuntu0.1_source.changes has expired. | 01:48 |
| Kamion | mjg59: suspend/resume in the installer is not terribly important :-) | 01:48 |
| mjg59 | Kamion: I thought the reason we used vga16 in the installer was that vesa didn't work on all hardware? | 01:49 |
| mjg59 | At least, I'm sure (you?) gave that as the reason at some stage | 01:50 |
| Kamion | mjg59: we use either in the installer, depending on vga= parameters | 01:50 |
| mjg59 | Right | 01:50 |
| Kamion | but yes we do default to vga16fb | 01:50 |
| mjg59 | But directfb forces vesafb | 01:50 |
| crimsun | Kamion: ok, is there a second upload (also failed)? I signed with my current key for the second upload approximately 16 minutes ago (the previous upload was signed in late May) | 01:50 |
| Kamion | for the graphical installer, that's not necessarily too much of a problem; the text mode would remain available | 01:50 |
| mjg59 | So we have to invert the current logic | 01:50 |
| mjg59 | Defaulting to vesafb for the installer is arguably saner than defaulting to vga16fb, but I think we need to recheck why that decision was made in the first place | 01:51 |
| Kamion | I think vga16fb is right for the text mode | 01:52 |
| mjg59 | Why? | 01:52 |
| Kamion | given the change to 640x400 | 01:53 |
| Kamion | most compatible | 01:53 |
| mjg59 | vga16fb doesn't work on some SIS hardware and is weird on a couple of other machines | 01:53 |
| Kamion | you lose either way in corner cases, but my impression remains that vga16fb is a better default, particularly as it's what we default to in the installed system and thus gets more testing | 01:54 |
| mjg59 | Yeah | 01:54 |
| mjg59 | I guess supporting graphical d-i at all just seems a bit odd to me, given that we've got Ubiquity | 01:55 |
| Kamion | I'd like the two to converge in the long run | 01:55 |
| mjg59 | The easiest way of doing that would seem to be to just run Ubiquity in an X session :) | 01:55 |
| mjg59 | As the only client, I mean | 01:55 |
| jdub | :-) | 01:55 |
| Kamion | not really, ubiquity isn't internally as flexible | 01:55 |
| mjg59 | Yeah | 01:56 |
| Kamion | by design, it can't do half the stuff d-i can do | 01:56 |
| Kamion | hence "converge" rather than "replace" | 01:56 |
| Kamion | anyway, I don't actually plan to present graphical d-i at least for the next couple of Ubuntu releases | 01:56 |
| Kamion | but I would like to avoid the merge pain caused by not being able to build core bits of d-i in main | 01:57 |
| Kamion | having to merge cdebconf all the time is silly | 01:57 |
| mjg59 | Yes, that sounds like a pretty convincing argument | 01:57 |
| fabbione | Kamion: only for curiosity. what is the status of g-i in Debian? | 01:57 |
| mjg59 | Hm. How hard would it be to hack up a mode for the live CD where it just launches ubiquity in the session rather than a full gnome session? | 01:58 |
| mjg59 | It would help the low-memory case | 01:58 |
| Kamion | more convincing to me than to anyone else, I suppose, since it's me (or Tollef) who gets to do the work | 01:58 |
| Kamion | mjg59: yeah, it's been suggested, probably not too difficult; though I know Mark wouldn't want it to be the default | 01:58 |
| seb128 | who is doing syncs nowadays? | 01:58 |
| Kamion | seb128: me/Keybuk | 01:58 |
| mjg59 | Kamion: Sure | 01:59 |
| Kamion | fabbione: functional but not polished | 01:59 |
| seb128 | I would appreciate a libcairo 1.2.0 sync from Debian incoming, it's required to package GTK 2.10 which has been rolled this morning | 01:59 |
| Mithrandir | mjg59: it's quite trivial. | 01:59 |
| fabbione | Kamion: ok thanks. | 01:59 |
| seb128 | Kamion: should I open a bug about it? | 01:59 |
| Kamion | seb128: see DeveloperResources for how to request syncs these days | 01:59 |
| Kamion | yes, please | 01:59 |
| mjg59 | Kamion: Could we put logic in gfxboot to check available RAM and prompt the user for whether they want to install or run a live session? | 01:59 |
| Kamion | we do syncs in batches | 01:59 |
| seb128 | Kamion: I know, I just have no idea on how fast is the queue processing nowadays and I want to do GTK 2.10 today ... anyway, filling the bug now :) | 02:00 |
| Kamion | seb128: measured in hours | 02:00 |
| seb128 | cool | 02:00 |
| seb128 | thanks Kamion | 02:00 |
| Kamion | mjg59: yeah, should be possible | 02:00 |
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| Kamion | though I'm not sure exactly how reliable gfxboot's memory detection is - haven't used it much in anger | 02:01 |
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| Chipzz | pitti: seriously, I once heard about a quake mod where you could kill processes by shooting them ;) | 02:09 |
| pitti | Chipzz: heh, me too :) | 02:09 |
| pitti | 'stand still, damn apache!' | 02:09 |
| Chipzz | .o0O( Where's that fucking eggdrop hiding? Fucking camper ) ;)P | 02:09 |
| thom | Chipzz: http://psdoom.sourceforge.net/ | 02:10 |
| sivang | thom: wow | 02:18 |
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| ogra | hey Keybuk | 02:19 |
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| Keybuk | heyhey | 02:21 |
| jdub | mjg59: cool idea | 02:25 |
| jdub | * debian/control: Remove libmpeg3-dev build-dependency and dependency to | 02:26 |
| jdub | keep jdub out of the jail. | 02:26 |
| jdub | ha ha | 02:26 |
| ogra | *g*# | 02:26 |
| jdub | pitti: thanks for putting my fingerprints *all over it* | 02:26 |
| fabbione | ahhaha | 02:29 |
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| \sh | ah Keybuk | 02:32 |
| \sh | the man I need | 02:32 |
| Keybuk | oh aye? | 02:32 |
| \sh | Keybuk: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/initscripts/+bug/51452 | 02:32 |
| Keybuk | it's nice to be needed | 02:32 |
| Ubugtu | Malone bug 51452 in initscripts "missing /var/run in root partition fails many services" [Untriaged,Confirmed] | 02:32 |
| Keybuk | yeah, I saw that one this morning | 02:33 |
| Keybuk | how did you install dapper? | 02:33 |
| \sh | Keybuk: via FAI ;) | 02:33 |
| Keybuk | then it's likely an FAI bug | 02:33 |
| \sh | Keybuk: I don't know how the reporter installed dapper | 02:33 |
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| Keybuk | \sh: aye, just asked him | 02:34 |
| \sh | Keybuk: but what really bugs me is : if [ ! -d $2 ] then return fi | 02:34 |
| Keybuk | the simple answer is that we do make /var/run and /var/lock | 02:34 |
| Keybuk | the installer makes them | 02:34 |
| Keybuk | and initscripts postinst makes them on upgrade | 02:34 |
| \sh | Keybuk: so, creating /var first, then mkdir -p /var/{run,lock} and then installing could solve the problem? | 02:35 |
| Keybuk | right | 02:35 |
| Keybuk | that's what we normally do | 02:35 |
| \sh | thx :) | 02:35 |
| \sh | as I said, the man I need :) | 02:35 |
| Keybuk | why does that if statement bug you? | 02:35 |
| \sh | because if it's not there, it returns to the caller (in this case mountvirtfs) | 02:37 |
| Keybuk | right? | 02:37 |
| \sh | but mountvirtfs should complain in this case | 02:37 |
| Keybuk | -v please :p | 02:37 |
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| Keybuk | why should it complain? nothing the user can do about it at that point | 02:38 |
| Keybuk | the complaint will speed past so fast, etc. | 02:38 |
| \sh | Keybuk: but gives errors later on, e.g. not starting simple networking | 02:38 |
| Keybuk | right | 02:38 |
| Keybuk | what we should have is the error that causes networking not to start to be logged as "/var/run not writable" or something | 02:39 |
| Keybuk | which makes it doubly obvious what happened | 02:39 |
| \sh | Keybuk: in my POV it would be better to do a "mkdir -p $2" in this if clause, but this doesn't work when I tested it | 02:39 |
| Keybuk | root filesystem isn't writable :) | 02:40 |
| ogra | that at least slows down booting | 02:40 |
| Keybuk | which is precisely _why_ we have these tmpfs's in the first place | 02:40 |
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| ogra | and what Keybuk said :) | 02:40 |
| \sh | Keybuk: argh...you are right... | 02:40 |
| \sh | we aren't at the stage of remounting root rw | 02:40 |
| StevenK | ogra: Um, I did. | 02:40 |
| StevenK | ogra: (the windowlab merge) | 02:40 |
| Keybuk | if the filesystem was writable that early in the boot, we wouldn't need a separately writable /var/run | 02:40 |
| StevenK | ECHAN | 02:41 |
| ogra | StevenK, yeah, you missed to change the address in the changelog :) | 02:41 |
| StevenK | DOH! | 02:41 |
| ogra | nobody injured :) | 02:41 |
| \sh | Keybuk: yeah...I missed that...let me check if I can work around that :) | 02:41 |
| StevenK | Just proves I'm a bozo. | 02:41 |
| StevenK | ;-) | 02:41 |
| Keybuk | \sh: you could do a unionfs mount on /var with a tmpfs, make /var/run and /var/lock under that and then mount /var over the top again later | 02:42 |
| Keybuk | ...oh dear, I appear to be chanelling Tollef <g> | 02:42 |
| \sh | Keybuk: well, it's easier for me, to create /var/{run,lock} after the partitioning and formatting... | 02:43 |
| Mithrandir | Keybuk: oh shiny. You think that'd work? ;-P | 02:43 |
| Mithrandir | Keybuk: also, unionfs gets very confused if you touch files in the file systems underneath it. | 02:43 |
| Keybuk | \sh: I believe u6y creates it after formatting, yes | 02:43 |
| === fabbione disables crack detector to void extra bans on Keybuk and Mithrandir | ||
| \sh | Keybuk: yes...and my luck is, that the target partitions are mounted rw during install | 02:44 |
| Keybuk | one would hope the targets were writable during install | 02:44 |
| Keybuk | otherwise you'd have different problems <g> | 02:44 |
| \sh | Keybuk: they are :) | 02:44 |
| Kamion | Keybuk: yes, it does | 02:45 |
| Kamion | by virtue of using partman | 02:45 |
| Kamion | oh, hmm | 02:45 |
| \sh | Keybuk: and if I solve this little problem, I can get an ubuntu install (desktop) in less then 80seconds :) | 02:45 |
| Kamion | the KDE frontend does not use partman for everything in the same way that the GTK frontend does - it's possible it doesn't make the directories | 02:45 |
| Kamion | this is a bug in the KDE frontend | 02:46 |
| === \sh hugs Keybuk for opening his blind eyes... | ||
| Keybuk | Kamion: interesting ... will see if the bug reporter was using KDE | 02:47 |
| \sh | I'll ask him | 02:47 |
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| Keybuk | Lathiat: ping | 02:48 |
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| pitti | jdub: SCNR :) | 02:59 |
| === pitti hugs jdub | ||
| Lathiat | Keybuk: pong | 02:59 |
| Keybuk | Lathiat: was just curious to a bit more technical detail of how the mdns stuff works | 03:00 |
| Lathiat | Keybuk: shoot | 03:01 |
| Lathiat | or do you want a general rundown? | 03:01 |
| Lathiat | or have specific queries? | 03:01 |
| Keybuk | yup, general rundown of the major components | 03:01 |
| Keybuk | and how they play together | 03:01 |
| Lathiat | Well its made up of two things | 03:01 |
| Lathiat | Multicast DNS and DNS-based service discovery | 03:02 |
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| Lathiat | both are basically independant, but complement each other | 03:02 |
| Lathiat | multicast dns is fairlylike normal dns where | 03:02 |
| Lathiat | you send a UDP query, in the same format | 03:02 |
| Lathiat | askign for reecords for a name | 03:02 |
| Lathiat | and you get replies | 03:02 |
| Lathiat | the major difference is that instead of asking one serve,r you multicast the request | 03:02 |
| Lathiat | and everyone with a reply multicasts back | 03:02 |
| Lathiat | so theres no authorative zone its just an adhoc hi i want this, hi i have that | 03:03 |
| jdub | pitti: SCNR? | 03:03 |
| Keybuk | so that is "show me all blah on the network" ? | 03:03 |
| Lathiat | well that dies into dns-sd | 03:03 |
| Lathiat | so dns-sd is a method of describing services in DNS | 03:03 |
| Lathiat | it can run over normal dns too | 03:03 |
| Lathiat | basically you have records like | 03:03 |
| === jdub has unicast dns-sd records on his home domain | ||
| Keybuk | is that like the SRV records? | 03:04 |
| === Keybuk has a _sip._udp.netsplit.com SRV record | ||
| Lathiat | yep | 03:04 |
| Lathiat | thats _exactly_ the same | 03:04 |
| Lathiat | thats dns-sd over unicast dns | 03:04 |
| Lathiat | just you request them over multicast dns in an avahi environment | 03:04 |
| Lathiat | your _sip._udp would SRv to like | 03:04 |
| Lathiat | keybuk's phone._sip._udp.netsplit.com | 03:04 |
| Lathiat | which can also have TXT records and other data | 03:05 |
| Lathiat | theres also some magic for discovering all types of services running on a network | 03:05 |
| Lathiat | basically once you start publishing _sip.-udp | 03:05 |
| Keybuk | right | 03:05 |
| Keybuk | so how does that work over multicast? what domain do you use? | 03:05 |
| Lathiat | you start publishing | 03:05 |
| Lathiat | _services._dns-sd._udp.local which PTRs to _daap._tcp.local | 03:05 |
| Lathiat | _workstation._tcp.local etc | 03:06 |
| Lathiat | bu thats not require in the spec | 03:06 |
| Lathiat | bu tits usefull for avahi-browse etc | 03:06 |
| Lathiat | Keybuk: .local is the default | 03:06 |
| Lathiat | its not restricted to that but thats basically what everyone uses | 03:06 |
| Keybuk | ok | 03:06 |
| Lathiat | so over multicast dns you go | 03:06 |
| Lathiat | "please give me SRVs for _daap._tcp.local" | 03:06 |
| Lathiat | and all the nmodes respond with | 03:06 |
| Lathiat | _daap._tcp.local IN PTR lathiat's music._daap._tcp.local | 03:06 |
| Lathiat | and then you query lathiat's music._daap._tcp local and you get for example | 03:07 |
| Lathiat | Lathiat\039s\032Music._daap._tcp.local IN SRV 0 0 3689 chiana.local ; ttl=120 | 03:07 |
| Lathiat | Lathiat\039s\032Music._daap._tcp.local IN TXT "org.freedesktop.Avahi.cookie=4255070712" ; ttl=4500 | 03:07 |
| Lathiat | which basically says its on port 3689 of chiana.local and the TXT data is some extra info | 03:07 |
| Lathiat | you can put some auxillary info in there that may be usefull at discover time | 03:07 |
| Lathiat | rather than conneting to the host | 03:07 |
| Lathiat | for example ichat puts your status in their | 03:07 |
| Lathiat | away, online, etc | 03:07 |
| Lathiat | yo udont want to have to connet to just find that out | 03:07 |
| Keybuk | ok | 03:08 |
| Keybuk | so how does this tie in to avahi and mdns*, etc. | 03:08 |
| Lathiat | the cookie is avahi's magical way of determining if two services on different interfaces and/or protocols (ipv4/ipv6) are the same | 03:08 |
| Lathiat | Keybuk: well avahi is basically what i just described above | 03:08 |
| Lathiat | rhythmbox asks avahi for _daap._tcp | 03:08 |
| Lathiat | it broadcasts a query for _daap._tcp.local via mdns | 03:08 |
| Lathiat | gets the results and passes them back to rhythmbox | 03:08 |
| Lathiat | it can then choose to go query the indiivudla servers for their SRV/TXT records | 03:08 |
| Lathiat | etc | 03:08 |
| Lathiat | you dont need to do that to start tho, e.g.to display a list of shares all you need to do is get the SRVs | 03:08 |
| Lathiat | as the first label (Lathiat's Music) is the service name | 03:09 |
| Lathiat | its only once i click on it i need to get the SRV record etc | 03:09 |
| Lathiat | that saves network traffic et al | 03:09 |
| Lathiat | in reality theres more in the background like it actually announces when a service comes online | 03:09 |
| Lathiat | and defends collisions and whatnot | 03:09 |
| Lathiat | but thats just implementation detail | 03:09 |
| Keybuk | ok, so avahi does the "discover" part of this? it's what applications use to find out what's on the network? | 03:10 |
| Lathiat | yep | 03:10 |
| Lathiat | avahi-daemon runs and basically proxies between the app and the network | 03:10 |
| Lathiat | it sends queries and announces its own services | 03:10 |
| elmo | tuna 14:11 ~ % apt-cache show libgd2-noxpm | grep libxpm | 03:11 |
| elmo | Depends: libc6 (>= 2.3.4-1), libfreetype6 (>= 2.1.10-1), libjpeg62, libpng12-0 (>= 1.2.8rel), libx11-6, libxpm4, zlib1g (>= 1:1.2.1) | 03:11 |
| === Dr4g [n=Dr4g@82-40-234-163.cable.ubr06.uddi.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| tortoise_ | Does anyone have any tips on how to package python apps? | 03:11 |
| Keybuk | Lathiat: ah, so what does mDNSresponder do? or is that the old stuff? | 03:11 |
| Lathiat | Keybuk: mDNSResponder does the same thing | 03:11 |
| Lathiat | its just apples versiojn | 03:11 |
| Keybuk | right | 03:11 |
| Lathiat | avahi-daemon is what we called ours | 03:11 |
| Keybuk | so I'm thinking about the whole discoverable/discovery thing | 03:12 |
| === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Keybuk | would it be possible to tell avahi-daemon to service application's requests, but not service network requests? | 03:12 |
| Lathiat | how so? | 03:12 |
| Lathiat | to query the network but not respond? | 03:13 |
| Keybuk | exactly | 03:13 |
| Lathiat | you can tell avahi to disallow publishing | 03:13 |
| Dr4g | Is most of the Ubuntu development in C ? | 03:13 |
| Keybuk | so rhythmbox can still look for nearby shares, without actually announcing your own | 03:13 |
| Lathiat | root@chiana:/etc/avahi# grep disable avahi-daemon.conf | 03:13 |
| Lathiat | #disable-publishing=no | 03:13 |
| Lathiat | #disable-user-service-publishing=no | 03:13 |
| Dr4g | Any C++/python..etc | 03:13 |
| === Lathiat nods | ||
| Dr4g | Lathiat:: nodding to me ? | 03:13 |
| Keybuk | when that's disabled, and when applications haven't requested anything, is there a network port open? | 03:13 |
| Lathiat | Dr4g: no, sorry, keybuk | 03:13 |
| Lathiat | Keybuk: yes | 03:13 |
| Lathiat | for avahi to do anything | 03:14 |
| Lathiat | it has to talk on the network | 03:14 |
| Dr4g | Okay :o) | 03:14 |
| Lathiat | its the same as real dns | 03:14 |
| Keybuk | right, but why doesn't it open that port when the application makes the request, and then close it after? | 03:14 |
| Lathiat | when your doing a query port 53 udp is open | 03:14 |
| Lathiat | :) | 03:14 |
| Lathiat | Keybuk: because then you miss out on all of the caching etc that makes mdns effecient | 03:14 |
| Lathiat | and | 03:14 |
| Lathiat | requests arent 1-time | 03:14 |
| Keybuk | true, but once you've finished doing the query, the port closes again | 03:14 |
| Lathiat | they are long term queries | 03:14 |
| Lathiat | mdsn updates | 03:14 |
| Lathiat | hosts comes and go etc | 03:14 |
| Lathiat | thats all handled by listening to the announcements | 03:14 |
| Lathiat | and goodbyes | 03:14 |
| Lathiat | and theres no time you can say "you've got all the services now" | 03:15 |
| Lathiat | you can guess tho | 03:15 |
| Keybuk | we have "policy exceptions" for DNS and DHCP already | 03:15 |
| Keybuk | trying to decide whether avahi deserves one or not | 03:15 |
| Lathiat | for avahi to operate | 03:15 |
| Lathiat | it raelly needs to be listening all the time | 03:15 |
| Keybuk | the trouble is, I don't think we can trust avahi's code as much as we can trust libc and dhclient -- which have been around for years | 03:15 |
| Lathiat | Keybuk: sure | 03:15 |
| Lathiat | avahi has some advantages in security | 03:15 |
| Lathiat | chroot(), unprivd user | 03:15 |
| Lathiat | but that still doesnt stop you from doing things | 03:16 |
| Lathiat | just helps minmize the damage | 03:16 |
| Lathiat | we've had 2 issues so far that could have been potentially exploitable iirc | 03:16 |
| Keybuk | which implies that we should ship with all service discovery off by default | 03:16 |
| Keybuk | and have a set of options | 03:16 |
| Keybuk | "discover network services" and "be discoverable yourself" | 03:16 |
| Lathiat | i mean | 03:17 |
| Lathiat | theres two issues here | 03:17 |
| Lathiat | security wise, theres not alot of difference between the two | 03:17 |
| Lathiat | information disclosure wise, there is | 03:17 |
| Keybuk | exactly | 03:17 |
| Lathiat | as i highlighted in my email which i see you read | 03:17 |
| Lathiat | i guess that would be a resaonable set of options | 03:18 |
| Lathiat | just promise me no mac-specific allowances or something ;) | 03:18 |
| Lathiat | i think ekiga advertises without asking | 03:19 |
| Lathiat | in rhythmbox you have to specifically allow it | 03:19 |
| Lathiat | i guess a desktop wise setting could be usefull | 03:19 |
| Lathiat | i wonder if avahi will pay attention to a change in the disable-publishing option and reset all services published | 03:19 |
| === Lathiat tries | ||
| Keybuk | yeah, from a code-security POV, I don't think we can yet give avahi the same level of trust we give to libc's resolver and dhclient | 03:21 |
| Keybuk | it just hasn't been around long enough | 03:21 |
| Keybuk | which leads me to believe we need to be able to turn the network port on and off -- which implies having the daemon on/off | 03:21 |
| Keybuk | and also from an information-disclosure POV, I think we should give people the option to discover, but not be discoverable themselves | 03:22 |
| Keybuk | which implies a daemon configuration | 03:22 |
| jdub | Keybuk: are you analysing nss-mdns (with or without avahi) at this point, too? | 03:22 |
| Chipzz | Keybuk: avahi is run in a chroot iirc | 03:22 |
| Keybuk | btw, if an app like rhythmbox decides to do discovery, does the daemon get started anyway? | 03:22 |
| Keybuk | jdub: not yet, will get onto that later | 03:22 |
| Keybuk | Chipzz: chroots, nobody users, etc. can all be broken | 03:22 |
| Lathiat | brb call | 03:23 |
| sivang | I guess some pycentral breakage is inevitable. | 03:23 |
| sivang | Setting up python-logilab-common (0.16.1-2) ... | 03:23 |
| sivang | pycentral: pycentral pkginstall: already exists: /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/logilab/common/ureports/__init__.py | 03:23 |
| sivang | pycentral pkginstall: already exists: /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/logilab/common/ureports/__init__.py | 03:24 |
| sivang | known ? | 03:24 |
| Keybuk | sivang: file a bug | 03:24 |
| sivang | Keybuk: sure, I have some more stuf from last night's dist-upgrade, care to let me know which ones are worth a bug or should I just file them all? | 03:24 |
| Keybuk | sivang: any breakage is worth a bug | 03:24 |
| sivang | k, | 03:25 |
| sivang | something I wanted to ask you about yesterday, was: | 03:25 |
| sivang | Setting up liblockdev1 (1.0.3-1) ... | 03:25 |
| sivang | /var/lib/dpkg/info/liblockdev1.postinst: line 3: [: : integer expression expected | 03:25 |
| sivang | cpio: ./lib/udev/path_id: No such file or directory | 03:25 |
| Keybuk | two bugs there | 03:25 |
| sivang | (this is how it appeared while I dist-upgraded) | 03:25 |
| Keybuk | <sivang> /var/lib/dpkg/info/liblockdev1.postinst: line 3: [: : integer expression expected | 03:25 |
| Lathiat | one of the thigns i want to look at sending patches for | 03:25 |
| Keybuk | ^ bug in liblockdev1's postinst | 03:25 |
| Lathiat | is that if avahi is started | 03:25 |
| Keybuk | <sivang> cpio: ./lib/udev/path_id: No such file or directory | 03:25 |
| Lathiat | most of the apps arent starting to use it | 03:25 |
| Keybuk | ^ bug in udev (filed) | 03:25 |
| Lathiat | avahi has the functionality to wait aroudn for the daemont o start | 03:25 |
| Lathiat | and start advertising/querying when it does | 03:26 |
| Lathiat | including if its restarted | 03:26 |
| Lathiat | thatd be fairly essential to making this work for us | 03:26 |
| sivang | Keybuk: okay, so I'll only file the one agaisnst liblockdev1 ? | 03:26 |
| Keybuk | sivang: yup | 03:26 |
| sivang | k, thanks | 03:26 |
| Lathiat | unless we want to say "reboot for service discovery to be enabled" :) | 03:26 |
| Keybuk | Lathiat: I don't think we do :p | 03:26 |
| Lathiat | sure? i'm sure its the easy way out... :) | 03:26 |
| Keybuk | rebooting is bad | 03:27 |
| Keybuk | so, all this works provided you have an IP address on the network? | 03:27 |
| jdub | *yay d-bus!* | 03:28 |
| Keybuk | how does it work when you don't? | 03:28 |
| Lathiat | hrm changing the disable user publishing option | 03:28 |
| Lathiat | doesnt work until the daemon is restarted | 03:28 |
| Keybuk | what assigns the link-local IP? | 03:28 |
| Lathiat | Keybuk: avahi doesnt | 03:28 |
| Lathiat | that needs to be done by somethign else | 03:28 |
| Lathiat | network-manager for example | 03:28 |
| jdub | zeroconf has improved | 03:28 |
| Lathiat | or if the interface is up, ipv6 :) | 03:28 |
| Lathiat | or zeroconf | 03:28 |
| Keybuk | I've yet to find the code in n-m that actually does link-local :p | 03:28 |
| Keybuk | ah, yeah, I was going to ask that | 03:28 |
| Lathiat | it works, i knwo that much | 03:28 |
| Keybuk | does this work over IPv6 ? | 03:28 |
| Lathiat | :) | 03:28 |
| Lathiat | yes | 03:28 |
| Lathiat | it does | 03:28 |
| Lathiat | its off on ipv6 by default tho | 03:28 |
| Keybuk | because IPv6 gives you link-local for free | 03:29 |
| Lathiat | thats true, buttt | 03:29 |
| Lathiat | a) the application needs to support it | 03:29 |
| Lathiat | b) applications that support ipv6 in general will often fail with link local | 03:29 |
| Lathiat | because | 03:29 |
| Lathiat | you need to specifically specify the interface to bind to | 03:29 |
| === jdub upgrades to IT2006 final | ||
| Lathiat | which most apps dont do | 03:29 |
| Lathiat | altho, you can get that information from avahi | 03:29 |
| === j_ack [n=nico@p508DA0E3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Lathiat | so is supportable in theory | 03:29 |
| Lathiat | (because the same link local range is on all interface,s by default linux has no idea which one you want) | 03:30 |
| Lathiat | try ping an ipv6 link local address without -I | 03:30 |
| Lathiat | and with -I | 03:30 |
| Lathiat | and you'll see what i mean | 03:30 |
| Lathiat | it2006? | 03:30 |
| Keybuk | right | 03:31 |
| Lathiat | ah | 03:31 |
| Lathiat | n770 stuff | 03:31 |
| jdub | Lathiat: 770 foo | 03:31 |
| Keybuk | jdub: what's new? | 03:31 |
| Lathiat | who wants to give me a 770? :) | 03:31 |
| jdub | Keybuk: it's final, so quite a few bugfixes and so on | 03:31 |
| Keybuk | jdub: I still only see Beta 2 | 03:31 |
| jsgotangco | jdub! | 03:32 |
| Keybuk | jdub: did they get SIP support yet? :p | 03:32 |
| jdub | Keybuk: it's behind the maemo download page (ignore the front bits) | 03:32 |
| jdub | Keybuk: don't think so | 03:32 |
| Keybuk | meh, will do it later, can't remember its MAC address <g> | 03:32 |
| === stub [n=stub@ppp-58.8.1.252.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| jdub | it'll be in your daemon.log :) | 03:33 |
| === jsgotangco can only dream for the 770 being available in his place | ||
| === fimbulvetr [n=danv@host-74-28-220-24.midco.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| iwj | Keybuk: Would it be possible to make MoM a bit smarter about changelogs which have tails not in standard Debian changelog format ? ATM it removes blank lines. | 03:41 |
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| jjesse | s | 03:43 |
| Keybuk | iwj: that should be fixed | 03:44 |
| === ploum [n=ploum@ubuntu/member/ploum] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Keybuk | iwj: oh, hmm | 03:46 |
| Keybuk | so it's keeping the tail, but removing blank lines from it? | 03:46 |
| Keybuk | (it used to just drop the tail entirely) | 03:46 |
| iwj | Yes. | 03:48 |
| iwj | It's not a huge problem, but it would save a bit of faff fixing it up if it didn't mangle it :-). | 03:48 |
| Keybuk | will look into it | 03:48 |
| Keybuk | (have a few bits of "real work" to do first today -- several large merges :-/) | 03:49 |
| iwj | Fun fun. | 03:49 |
| iwj | See for example the psutils merge. | 03:49 |
| iwj | (Nice simple case where the generated package would have been just right otherwise.) | 03:49 |
| Keybuk | it's pretty easy to fix though -- you have the other source next to you, so can just copy the end of the changelog in | 03:51 |
| Keybuk | but yes, it's unwanted faff | 03:51 |
| iwj | Yes, indeed. | 03:51 |
| Kamion | mjg59: mind if I merge gnu-efi? | 03:52 |
| Kamion | or possibly sync, still checking | 03:52 |
| Keybuk | jdub: so, the location for next year's GUADEC is decided? | 03:53 |
| jdub | Keybuk: b'ham | 03:53 |
| Kamion | mjg59: indeed, it's a sync | 03:53 |
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| Keybuk | jdub: not sure I'll make that one ... it's SO FAR to travel :-/ | 03:54 |
| jdub | heh | 03:54 |
| Seveas | Keybuk, MoM screw up greek .po files - they look like rubbish in .patch but look good in .diff.gz | 03:57 |
| Keybuk | Seveas: s/MoM/msgmerge/ :p | 03:57 |
| Seveas | (see the apollon merge for an example) | 03:57 |
| seb128 | Kamion: do you know if evolution-data-server 1.7 is waiting to NEW or something like that? | 04:07 |
| ogra | rss-glx (0.8.0-4) unstable; urgency=low | 04:07 |
| ogra | . | 04:07 |
| ogra | * I am an idiot. (Closes: #350985) | 04:07 |
| tseng | seb128: you can see NEW now on launchpad | 04:07 |
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| seb128 | tseng: URL? | 04:07 |
| tseng | moment | 04:07 |
| ogra | wow, i didnt know the debian bts has such cool features :) | 04:07 |
| tseng | its hard to find :P | 04:07 |
| tseng | https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue | 04:08 |
| seb128 | tseng: thank you | 04:08 |
| tseng | np | 04:08 |
| iwj | Glargh. The psutils Debian maintainer copied the changelog entry from the patch I sent but forgot to actually apply the change to the source. | 04:09 |
| Keybuk | ogra: ? | 04:09 |
| ogra | rss-glx (0.8.0-6) unstable; urgency=low | 04:09 |
| ogra | . | 04:09 |
| ogra | * I'm still an idiot. (Closes: #356971) | 04:09 |
| ogra | . | 04:09 |
| ogra | hehe, another one | 04:09 |
| ogra | Keybuk, well, bugs that are closed by stating youre an idiot :) | 04:10 |
| tseng | the feature is Closes: | 04:10 |
| tseng | not I'm an idiot | 04:10 |
| Keybuk | tseng: heh, that still has the same bugs as the tool we get :-/ doesn't say what's NEW and confuses i386 and all | 04:10 |
| tseng | it does say what is NEW | 04:11 |
| tseng | no? | 04:11 |
| seb128 | could somebody process the new e-d-s then? :) | 04:11 |
| === tseng bribes Keybuk to process NEW | ||
| Keybuk | tseng: no, just says "here's a changes file with 30 binaries in it" | 04:12 |
| Keybuk | doesn't tell you which one is the new one | 04:12 |
| tseng | Keybuk: ah | 04:12 |
| tseng | right, new binary | 04:12 |
| === Keybuk opens up NEW :-/ | ||
| tseng | dholbach: so, very shortly beagle will ship python2.4-beagle not python-beagle | 04:13 |
| seb128 | Keybuk: e-d-s has a new -common | 04:13 |
| Keybuk | tseng: for my bribe, I'd like avahi and mono installed by default in edgy please <g> | 04:13 |
| Kamion | tseng: isn't that going in the opposite direction to current python policy? | 04:13 |
| Kamion | (see recent debian-devel-announce) | 04:13 |
| tseng | Kamion: it changed again? | 04:13 |
| dholbach | tseng: thank you | 04:13 |
| iwj | Oh, no, I'm wrong, it's using some hideous patch system. | 04:13 |
| Kamion | tseng: yes, much saner now | 04:13 |
| iwj | And psutils _has no upstream_ ! | 04:14 |
| tseng | Kamion: goodness, ok. | 04:14 |
| Kamion | though the changes are a little complex to get your head around at first - but the result is better | 04:14 |
| Keybuk | iwj: most stuff close to the kernel doesn't | 04:14 |
| Keybuk | iwj: suggest to jon masters that it should be added to kerneltools.org ? | 04:14 |
| iwj | No, psutils, not procps. | 04:14 |
| tseng | Kamion: will review with debian beagle maintainer | 04:14 |
| Keybuk | iwj: oops :p | 04:14 |
| Keybuk | iwj: my brain read "ps" and stopped | 04:14 |
| tseng | Kamion: thanks for the tip | 04:15 |
| iwj | The maintainer is going to hate me now for messing with this bug and so on. | 04:15 |
| ogra | isnt procps supposed to die since 2.6 started ? | 04:15 |
| ogra | as well as /proc ? | 04:15 |
| tseng | Keybuk: it sounds like there is a concensus to desktop seed at least f-spot | 04:16 |
| Keybuk | ogra: no, /proc will always retain the /proc/$PID functionality | 04:16 |
| ogra | ah | 04:16 |
| Keybuk | ogra: it's just /proc/$PSEUDO_SYSCTL that's getting phased out | 04:16 |
| Keybuk | well, actually, what I mean it | 04:16 |
| Keybuk | /proc/$JUNK | 04:16 |
| ogra | yep in favor of sysfs | 04:16 |
| Keybuk | /proc/sys (which is the sysctl interface) might stay | 04:17 |
| ogra | isnt that just redundant to /sys ? | 04:17 |
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| dholbach | who's going to do the gnome-power-manager update? | 04:17 |
| Keybuk | no, sysctl is things like sys.vm.overcommit_ratio, etc. | 04:17 |
| ogra | ah | 04:18 |
| tseng | dholbach: is it simple? :) | 04:18 |
| Keybuk | /sys is the kernel's kobject tree | 04:18 |
| dholbach | tseng: look at it :) | 04:18 |
| tseng | dholbach: i have been running CVS | 04:18 |
| === ogra looks for more packages from ari pollack, these changelogs are entertaining :) | ||
| dholbach | tseng: you should do the package then :) | 04:18 |
| tseng | ok we'll see | 04:18 |
| tseng | can I drop these silly icons? | 04:19 |
| tseng | upstream has tango | 04:19 |
| ogra | tseng, you mean the beutiful ones ? | 04:19 |
| dholbach | tseng: ask Mark | 04:19 |
| tseng | oh goodness | 04:19 |
| tseng | I knew there was a catch | 04:19 |
| dholbach | tseng: does it use proper gtk icon theme support now? | 04:20 |
| tseng | hm I dont think | 04:20 |
| === tseng looks | ||
| dholbach | tseng: if so, I can move them to the yet to come human-icon-theme package | 04:20 |
| dholbach | they shouldn't use hardcoded icons | 04:20 |
| tseng | should have thought of that last week | 04:20 |
| tseng | when i could have punched hughsie in the arm | 04:20 |
| tseng | dholbach: | 04:23 |
| tseng | dholbach: /usr/share/icons/hicolor/16x16/apps/gpm-ups-100-charging.png | 04:23 |
| tseng | /usr/share/icons/hicolor/24x24/apps/gpm-ups-100-charging.png | 04:23 |
| tseng | looks nice! | 04:23 |
| dholbach | tseng: then it should be fine to drop them, I'll add them to human (probably) next week | 04:25 |
| tseng | ok | 04:25 |
| tseng | alot of patches here to figure out as well | 04:26 |
| ogra | tseng, could you make a tgz of them and mail them to me ? i'd like to habve them in the gartoon package for edubuntu | 04:26 |
| tseng | ok | 04:26 |
| dholbach | ogra: which ones? the Human ones or the Tango ones? | 04:27 |
| dholbach | ogra: seems the OLD are lost | 04:27 |
| ogra | NOOOO ! | 04:27 |
| dholbach | ogra: or somewhere in an old package | 04:27 |
| dholbach | ogra: or in cvs | 04:27 |
| === ogra cries about the beautiful icons | ||
| ogra | yeah | 04:27 |
| ogra | i'll grab them from the breezy package :P | 04:27 |
| tseng | it is in tseng.ath.cx/~brandon/gpm-icons.tar.gz | 04:28 |
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| ogra | tseng, thanks a lot, but these are the new ones already ... | 04:44 |
| dholbach | doko: do you still know why we wanted to use mcpp for libidl? | 04:45 |
| pitti | Mithrandir: wrt mailman, I would do the merge now to get it off my list, unless you want to grab it | 04:45 |
| Mithrandir | pitti: feel free | 04:46 |
| doko | dholbach: to remove cpp from the live and install CD | 04:46 |
| dholbach | doko: I see | 04:47 |
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| tseng | dholbach: can you help me with this? | 04:49 |
| tseng | dholbach: i have fixed a few patches already | 04:50 |
| tseng | 90 is scary, the upstream file is very different | 04:50 |
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| dholbach | tseng: hum, i never looked at it | 04:50 |
| === tseng looks who wrote it in the first place | ||
| dholbach | :-) | 04:50 |
| tseng | Daniel Silverstone | 04:50 |
| tseng | ugh | 04:51 |
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| tseng | some of these 9x patches are hard to tell since upstream is moved so much | 04:52 |
| tseng | what do you think? | 04:52 |
| tseng | i dont want to drop them and piss someone off | 04:52 |
| ogra | tseng, also note that there might be corresponding patches in gnome-screensaver for some of the g-p-m patches | 04:52 |
| dholbach | tseng: Kinnison and mjg59 might know better than me | 04:52 |
| tseng | maybe Kinnison should update it then | 04:53 |
| tseng | i have merged the gconf patches | 04:53 |
| tseng | but the C has moved too much for me to do a merge | 04:53 |
| tseng | bits are entirely gone/changes | 04:53 |
| dholbach | doko: trying to merge it, it gives 'configure: error: C preprocessor "mcpp" fails sanity check' in pbuilder :-( | 04:54 |
| tseng | I have it all done besides 9x patches | 04:54 |
| tseng | if that is useful at all to anyone | 04:55 |
| tseng | btw | 04:55 |
| tseng | what is gpm_screensaver_poke called again now? | 04:55 |
| dholbach | doko: just try to build the dapper version in a edgy pbuilder | 04:55 |
| tseng | we need a patch for that as well | 04:55 |
| dholbach | gnome-screensaver-command --poke ? | 04:55 |
| tseng | i seem to recall that the name of the function changed recently | 04:56 |
| sivang | so, I have this merge I'm doing for bittornado, I have one question: One of the build-deps is python-support (>= 0.3) , and we have in edgy 0.2.3ubuntu1 , should I upload the source with the new dependency , assuming we are anyways getting to python-support (>= 0.3) part of merging from upstream? (debian) | 04:56 |
| tseng | ioh, that is internal anyway | 04:56 |
| tseng | if someone wants my WIP let me know, I can't do anything with 9x patches | 04:57 |
| === dholbach hugs tseng | ||
| tseng | *hugs*, sorry | 04:57 |
| tseng | a good case for why patches should go upstream | 04:58 |
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| pitti | sivang: doko wanted to look into merging the newer version, so just hold back the upload for now | 05:02 |
| mdz | phanatic: pong | 05:03 |
| mdz | anibal: pong | 05:03 |
| phanatic | mdz: i just wanted to ask about the thing i posted to the ubuntu-archive list | 05:05 |
| phanatic | (sysinfo vs. dapper-updates) | 05:05 |
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| ogra | mdz, i renamed the ltsp upstream branch, can you point https://launchpad.net/people/mdz/+branch/ltsp/ubuntu-main to http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/mainline/ ? | 05:14 |
| Keybuk | phanatic: how many explanations do you need? you've had three already | 05:14 |
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| phanatic | Keybuk: excuse me, i've pinged mdz before Kamion told me to write to ubuntu-archive. i understand the situation now... | 05:15 |
| mdz | Keybuk: I was responding to a ping from over the weekend | 05:16 |
| mdz | ogra: I don't see why I should? I'll just rename it so that it doesn't say mainline | 05:16 |
| === Hobbsee waves to the room | ||
| ogra | mdz, ah, so i register a new one then, ok | 05:16 |
| === pitti waves to Hobbsee | ||
| lbm | slomo: ping | 05:17 |
| Hobbsee | hey pitti :) | 05:17 |
| phanatic | btw is there a dapper-updates approval howto? maybe a wiki page or something like that which describes the process? | 05:20 |
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| Keybuk | iwj: coreutils is incorrectly marked as an "Updated Merge" ... could you make sure that one isn't forgotten? | 05:23 |
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| Hobbsee | phanatic: there might be something in developer resources, in the topic, but they rarely seem to accept updates to the stable version | 05:26 |
| iwj | Keybuk: noted | 05:27 |
| Hobbsee | wow, only 759 universe merges to go - that's not really so many | 05:27 |
| Seveas | Hobbsee, minus a few dozen that I just found out are syncs :0 | 05:28 |
| Hobbsee | Seveas: yeah, exactly, minus the few that we killed off tonight. | 05:28 |
| Seveas | and minus the hundreds to kill today ;) | 05:28 |
| phanatic | Hobbsee: thanks. then i'll stop bugging the people and focus on edgy :) | 05:29 |
| Hobbsee | phanatic: usually a good idea, yeah | 05:29 |
| Hobbsee | Seveas: yeah, yeah, of course. | 05:30 |
| jdub | Hobbsee: going to do all 759 before bed time? | 05:31 |
| Hobbsee | jdub: nah, i dont think so - it wouldnt be a great idea to piss the parents off more than they already are - which is a lot | 05:31 |
| === Hobbsee looks at the rest listed under her. | ||
| Hobbsee | bleh. | 05:32 |
| === Hobbsee will need to find someone else to upload more of her stuff, in order to do much. or file sync requests. | ||
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| Hobbsee | jdub: evil. tempting me with something like doing more merging etc before sleeping. | 05:49 |
| mjg59 | Kamion: Feel free | 05:53 |
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| sivang | pitti: sure thing, thanks | 06:00 |
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| doko | pitti: Setting up libgphoto2-2 (2.2.1-1ubuntu1) ... | 06:10 |
| doko | /var/lib/dpkg/info/libgphoto2-2.postinst: line 21: /usr/share/hal/fdi/preprobe/10osvendor/20-libgphoto2.fdi: No such file or directory | 06:10 |
| doko | dpkg: error processing libgphoto2-2 (--configure): | 06:10 |
| doko | subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1 | 06:10 |
| dholbach | doko: any idea how to fix libidl regarding mcpp? | 06:11 |
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| doko | dholbach: does the current package build? | 06:14 |
| dholbach | doko: no, as i said: if you grab the current source and build it in edgy pbuilder it ftbfs | 06:15 |
| dholbach | 'configure: error: C preprocessor "mcpp" fails sanity check' | 06:15 |
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| ogra | Keybuk, Kamion, | 06:19 |
| ogra | <Gadi> I have this issue with an adaptec raid card - seems the install cd used i2o_core and friends, while the installed initramfs wants to load dpt_i2o first | 06:19 |
| mdz | Keybuk: why shouldn't edgy-artwork be informational? the actual artwork targets are in separate specs, and the artwork plan is a process document | 06:19 |
| ogra | do we have a bug open for that ? | 06:19 |
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| Keybuk | mdz: umm, it should? | 06:21 |
| Keybuk | mdz: and it is | 06:21 |
| pitti | doko: oh, oops; thank you for pointing out | 06:22 |
| Keybuk | are you confusing edgy-artwork and update-manager-edgy ? | 06:22 |
| Keybuk | ogra: probably at least a dozne | 06:22 |
| ogra | oki | 06:22 |
| ogra | then i wont tell him to file one ;) | 06:22 |
| pitti | doko: this was a fresh install? this works on dapper upgrades | 06:22 |
| ogra | Keybuk, thanks | 06:22 |
| mdz | Keybuk: yes, I confused those emails | 06:23 |
| Keybuk | mdz: Mark's been annoying and changed the approver on everything | 06:23 |
| doko | pitti: see the openoffice.org build log | 06:23 |
| Keybuk | so I don't get e-mails anymore | 06:23 |
| Keybuk | *sulk* | 06:23 |
| Hobbsee | Keybuk: you dont get enough emails as it is? :P | 06:23 |
| pitti | doko: ah, ok; since the directory is shipped by hal | 06:24 |
| pitti | doko: but hal is not a dependency; will fix now | 06:24 |
| === bmonty is now known as bmonty_away | ||
| doko | dholbach: checking how to run the C preprocessor... mcpp | 06:25 |
| doko | checking if C preprocessor likes IDL... yes | 06:25 |
| doko | checking if C preprocessor can read from stdin... yes | 06:25 |
| doko | checking how to ignore standard include path... -I- | 06:25 |
| seb128 | could anybody promote libdirectfb-dev and give a retry to libcairo 1.2.0 build? | 06:26 |
| iwj | Aaargh I hate patch systems. They make merges such a PITA. | 06:26 |
| seb128 | that's blocking pango 1.13, GTK 2.10 and most of GNOME 2.15 | 06:26 |
| Kamion | seb128: I'm going to promote it after this publisher run | 06:26 |
| seb128 | Kamion: thank you | 06:26 |
| doko | works for me, could you have a look at the config.log file of a failed build? | 06:26 |
| Kamion | Keybuk will need to prod the libcairo build though | 06:26 |
| iwj | Keybuk: Did you send debian/patches/60_ubuntu-force-clobber-specials.patch (coreutils 5.93-5ubuntu2) upstream to Debian ? I can't seem to find it in the Debian BTS. | 06:27 |
| dholbach | doko: hum, I double-check | 06:27 |
| seb128 | I'll ping him when directfb has been promoted :) | 06:27 |
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| dholbach | doko: did you try in edgy pbuilder? | 06:27 |
| Keybuk | iwj: I sent it directly to the coreutils list, ages ago | 06:27 |
| Tonio_ | hey | 06:27 |
| dholbach | doko: i tried on amd64 (if that matters) *try on i386* | 06:27 |
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| iwj | Keybuk: Aha. | 06:27 |
| Keybuk | in general, I tend to send patches upstream than to Debian | 06:28 |
| iwj | Keybuk: IC. Do you know if they took the patch ? | 06:28 |
| Keybuk | I never got a reply to the mail, so I guess not | 06:29 |
| iwj | OK. I'll chase it up. Thanks. | 06:29 |
| iwj | Let me just check the code first ... | 06:30 |
| Keybuk | iirc, that was the distro sprint patch to fix the fact -f didn't do what it seemed like it should | 06:30 |
| iwj | Yes. AFAICT your patch only fixes it for devices and not for fifos. | 06:31 |
| Keybuk | yeah, I suspect we did "fix the bug, and not other cases" | 06:31 |
| pitti | doko: libgphoto2 fix uploaded | 06:33 |
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| iwj | Keybuk: I think your patch is quite wrong, really. It is as if you always said --remove-destination whenever the object to be created is a device. | 06:41 |
| Keybuk | then you'd need to patch busybox to support --remove-destination | 06:44 |
| Keybuk | which isn't specified by POSIX | 06:44 |
| iwj | Err, what ? | 06:44 |
| Keybuk | the patch was written to fix a problem | 06:45 |
| iwj | I mean, the supposed behaviour of coreutils cp is fairly clear I think. | 06:45 |
| Keybuk | we decided the behaviour was wrong | 06:45 |
| iwj | Eg, if you say cp -a /dev/null /dev/zero it ought to refuse. | 06:45 |
| Keybuk | right, but if you so cp -a -f /dev/null /dev/zero it should not refuse | 06:45 |
| iwj | If you say cp -af /dev/null /dev/zero or cp --remove-destination /dev/null /dev/zero it ought to unlink /dev/zero first. | 06:45 |
| Keybuk | right | 06:46 |
| Keybuk | that's what the patch does | 06:46 |
| Keybuk | it makes the former work | 06:46 |
| iwj | Really ? | 06:46 |
| Keybuk | which doesn't without the patch | 06:46 |
| iwj | Yes, but the behaviour doesn't seem to depend on -f. | 06:46 |
| iwj | And -f means `try again with an unlink if it fails', not `always unlink it'. | 06:46 |
| Keybuk | it only comes into play with -f, due to some random flow through that code | 06:47 |
| iwj | (I'm not sure why there are two different options.) | 06:47 |
| iwj | Joy. | 06:47 |
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| Keybuk | without -f, it never reaches that bit anyway | 06:47 |
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| iwj | Keybuk: Not quite true. There's a race. If you cp -a /dev/null foo & cp -a /dev/null foo then both can succeed. | 06:52 |
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| iwj | ogra: coreutils patch 99a_fix_cp_manpage in 5.93-5ubuntu3 edits cp.1 but cp.1 is an output file. Did you know that ? The thing you were trying to fix seems to be addressed in Debian #351601. | 07:13 |
| Ubugtu | Debian bug 351601 in coreutils "Subject: coreutils: minor formatting issue in the mv an cp manpages" [Minor,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/351601 | 07:13 |
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| ogra | iwj, if debian adresses it, feel free to drop it :) | 07:14 |
| iwj | Yes, I will :-). But I thought I should point out your mistake in a spirit of education :-). | 07:14 |
| highvoltage | :) | 07:16 |
| iwj | Anyway, I have to go and have dinner. | 07:19 |
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| dholbach | me too | 07:20 |
| Kamion | The localechooser merge is making me lose my sanity. I'm off for dinner before it all disappears entirely. | 07:42 |
| Keybuk | swap you for sysvinit :p | 07:42 |
| Kamion | no deal | 07:43 |
| thom | Keybuk: you have no sanity left to lose, colin is a more serious matter | 07:44 |
| thom | ;-) | 07:44 |
| highvoltage | colin is sanity personified. | 07:44 |
| mdz | ogra: you should make yourself a bug contact for fuse | 07:45 |
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| Keybuk | I reckon jdthood examined our changes carefully, and then deliberately changed the Debian package in ways that would make this merge annoying <g> | 07:45 |
| Keybuk | like he's reindented a bit we changed, for no other readily apparent reason | 07:45 |
| ogra | mdz, will do | 07:46 |
| ogra | ugh, how did that makedev rubbish get in there .... | 07:51 |
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| Keybuk | oh, that's kinda annoying | 08:02 |
| Keybuk | new-mom drops an Ubuntu change to a file Debian removed, rather than flagging it | 08:02 |
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| === jdub sucks down edgy | ||
| crimsun | Keybuk: out of curiosity, do -security pull from a different keyserver? My uploads to breezy-security are failing due to key expiration, but I'm using the same key that I use to sign uploads to Edgy (which are accepted). | 08:09 |
| Keybuk | crimsun: not sure, -security goes down a different path | 08:10 |
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| siriusnova | hello | 08:12 |
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| crimsun | fabbione: anibal has prepared merged nfs-utils at http://users.monash.edu.au/~anibal/ubuntu/nfs-utils/ . They look sane to me. | 08:40 |
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| ogra | Kamion, mind if i merge makedev (its only 3 lines in postinst to merge) | 09:07 |
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| Laser_away | can a reviewer please look at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-dynamic-menus ? Thanks | 09:25 |
| Burgwork | Laser_away, I will look at it, but I am not a reviewer | 09:26 |
| Burgwork | Laser_away, "A standard location/format for determining the user -> group mapping will be used so both Gnome's sabayon and KDE's kiosk tool frontends can access the same groups." | 09:29 |
| Burgwork | Laser_away, that part is not clear to me | 09:29 |
| Riddell | Laser_away: kisoktool spelt wrong | 09:30 |
| Burgwork | Riddell, to the sharks, eh? | 09:31 |
| Riddell | "A standard location/format.." that would require quite major and incompatible changes to kiosk | 09:31 |
| crimsun | unless he means to develop a proxy...do you? | 09:32 |
| Burgwork | how does kiosk work? | 09:33 |
| Burgwork | does it set keys in kconfig? | 09:33 |
| Riddell | Laser_away: you might also be interested in https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuKioskProfiles | 09:33 |
| Riddell | Burgwork: it does indeed | 09:33 |
| Laser_away | Riddell: well, I talked to aaron about it | 09:33 |
| Burgwork | is that not a stand place? | 09:33 |
| Burgwork | if for no other reason, gconf and kconfig should be merged because of all the duplicate lockdown stuff | 09:33 |
| Riddell | Burgwork: the use to profile mapping is done in /etc/kderc, presumably sabayon doesn't use that file | 09:34 |
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| Riddell | user to profile | 09:34 |
| Burgwork | it uses a .zip based format to define keys within it | 09:34 |
| tseng | hi Burgwork | 09:35 |
| Burgwork | hey tseng | 09:35 |
| Burgwork | you know what is really sad? My company has 4+ years of experience with locking down linux public computers and yet we are unwilling to share | 09:36 |
| Laser_away | well, the idea was to at least allow kiosktool and sabayon to be able to share user->group/profile mappings | 09:39 |
| Laser_away | what we want is for Edubuntu to be able to have group driven menus | 09:40 |
| Burgwork | Laser_away, just the mappings, not the actual settings? | 09:40 |
| Laser_away | sabayon seems to be the way to do that | 09:40 |
| Laser_away | at least mappings | 09:41 |
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| Burgwork | to me, the implementation is still not very clear | 09:41 |
| Laser_away | settings might depend on DE if it is more than just menus | 09:41 |
| Burgwork | maybe but that stuff there about what exactly needs to be common and what can't be/shouldn't be | 09:41 |
| Burgwork | Laser_away, you should also chooose profiles or .menus. I don;t know if you have, but the spec seems to indicate that the decision was still up in the air | 09:42 |
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| Kamion | ogra: Mithrandir said he was doing makedev | 09:58 |
| Kamion | he said "I've prodded bdale to take our final change to makedev, so you don't need to think about that merge." | 09:59 |
| Kamion | feel free to do it if you just want to get it off the list though - but sounds like it should turn into a sync | 10:00 |
| ogra | yeah, if bdale added the change ... its just that fuse seems to need a newer one ... | 10:01 |
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| Keybuk | oh, joy | 10:05 |
| Keybuk | I just accidentally wiped a merge that's taken me most of the afternoon | 10:05 |
| Keybuk | *sigh* | 10:05 |
| pygi | Keybuk, :-/ | 10:05 |
| Keybuk | oh well, hopefully my brain is still fresh and I can resurrect it from memory | 10:06 |
| mjg59 | Do we have magic OLPC images anywhere? | 10:07 |
| rodarvus | what are magic OLPC images? | 10:08 |
| mjg59 | One Laptop Per Child | 10:09 |
| mjg59 | Someone's looking at customising Ubuntu for the boards, but I don't know how far things have got | 10:10 |
| rodarvus | I know what OLPC means :) | 10:11 |
| rodarvus | afaik, no one is working on an Ubuntu OLPC image - yet | 10:12 |
| rodarvus | a few Ubuntu developers (me included) have subscribed to the developer program | 10:13 |
| Kamion | ogra: feel free to go ahead then | 10:14 |
| mjg59 | rodarvus: Yes, I have one of the boards | 10:14 |
| rodarvus | mjg59, nice! | 10:14 |
| rodarvus | mjg59, do you have other plans for it, or want to have Ubuntu running on the board? | 10:15 |
| mjg59 | I'm doing power management stuff on it | 10:15 |
| sladen | all of the power-management? | 10:17 |
| mjg59 | Well, that sort of depends what already works... | 10:18 |
| Burgwork | rodarvus, you are doing X stuff for Canonical, no? | 10:18 |
| rodarvus | Burgwork, right | 10:19 |
| Burgwork | ah, cool | 10:19 |
| ogra | Kamion, done, thanks for all the info | 10:20 |
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| Kamion | Keybuk: I'm trying to grok the bit in replacement-init about level events | 10:21 |
| Kamion | "Level events are just edge events that have a string value associated with them, e.g. "up" and "down". Any change in the value triggers an edge event of the same name." | 10:21 |
| Kamion | Keybuk: shouldn't that be "triggers a level event" - or am I missing something? | 10:21 |
| Keybuk | hmm, not describing that very well there | 10:22 |
| Kamion | Keybuk: where does the init daemon's event socket reside? | 10:23 |
| Kamion | presumably has to be somewhere guaranteed to be on / | 10:23 |
| Keybuk | Kamion: undecided, might just use a named unix socket | 10:23 |
| Kamion | ' | 10:23 |
| Kamion | k | 10:23 |
| Kamion | I hate my k key | 10:23 |
| Keybuk | ok, tweaked that paragraph | 10:24 |
| Keybuk | "Level events are just like edge events, except that they also have a string value associated with them, e.g. "`up`" and "`down`". Any change in the value triggers the level event with that value associated, and an edge event of the same name (without any value)." | 10:24 |
| Kamion | ah ok, though I wonder how useful such edge events would be in practice | 10:25 |
| Keybuk | e.g. "on power" (whenever power state changes) vs. "when power is battery" or something | 10:25 |
| Kamion | fair enough | 10:25 |
| Keybuk | they're most useful for the associated stop events | 10:25 |
| Keybuk | start when power is battery ... stop on power (whenever it changes to something else) | 10:26 |
| Keybuk | which is just "while power is battery" <g> | 10:26 |
| Kamion | the fs repair console case is interesting - might want to provide for a way to make init stop reacting to events while the repair console is active | 10:26 |
| Kamion | I'd be a bit freaked out if I were trying to put my system back together from sulogin and init started randomly doing stuff | 10:26 |
| Keybuk | yeah, that's special-case'd in ordinary init too | 10:26 |
| Kamion | your XML config file example has unbalanced tags ;) | 10:27 |
| === Keybuk hates XML | ||
| Kamion | ich auch | 10:27 |
| Kamion | it occurs that having "reload"/"restart" or whatever in addition to "start" and "stop" might be useful in the future | 10:28 |
| Keybuk | restart is actually in there, I think | 10:28 |
| Keybuk | yeah it is | 10:28 |
| Keybuk | mentioned under the state machine description | 10:29 |
| Kamion | "restart dhcpd whenever list of interfaces change" | 10:29 |
| sladen | Keybuk: "edge events just show change, level events show change to a _particular state_ which is provided as an accompanying string such as 'up' or 'down'." | 10:29 |
| Kamion | ah, ok, hadn't got that far yet | 10:29 |
| bluefoxicy | Keybuk or Kamion, which one of you knew the linker intimately, and are you going to be not busy enough to talk to me in #-offtopic when I get back from mcdonalds? | 10:29 |
| Keybuk | bluefoxicy: not right now, maybe later | 10:30 |
| sladen | bluefoxicy: it might be useful to say what you're actually trying to do | 10:30 |
| bluefoxicy | sladen: Offtopic stuff, I'm writing an article on prelink and want to make sure I've described things like the relocation process properly et al, hence why #-offtopic | 10:30 |
| Kamion | bluefoxicy: not me | 10:31 |
| bluefoxicy | anyway there's real work going on so I'm gonna go for a bit, maybe later. | 10:31 |
| sladen | bluefoxicy: then post a link to the wiki page | 10:31 |
| bluefoxicy | sladen: it's not on the wiki | 10:31 |
| sladen | bluefoxicy: then how are you going to show people to ask for comments? | 10:32 |
| === bluefoxicy slips out for a few | ||
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| sivang | Since it's getting close to spec approval dead line, I'd like to know about my two specs, home-user-backup, and make-free-space-wizard. Are they still pending in the reviewers queue ? | 10:40 |
| Kamion | Keybuk: your state machine is missing transitions for Waiting->Starting and Waiting->Stopping (I'm assuming the former is == Stopped->Starting and the latter is a no-op); also I think your Stopped->Waiting transition is bogus | 10:40 |
| Keybuk | let me check | 10:41 |
| Keybuk | heh | 10:42 |
| Keybuk | I must have badly C&P'd that | 10:42 |
| Kamion | Keybuk: with regard to non-root user events it might be worth referring people to userv if they want cross-user functionality (or studying the measures it takes if you want to do it in upstart) | 10:42 |
| Keybuk | I was fighting moin's formatting for that bit | 10:42 |
| Keybuk | Waiting->Stopping is definitly a no-op | 10:42 |
| Kamion | presumably also Stopping->Stopped | 10:42 |
| Keybuk | aha! | 10:42 |
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| Keybuk | first thing is supposed to be Waiting to Starting | 10:43 |
| Keybuk | (starting->waiting is a no-op) | 10:43 |
| Kamion | in particular I remember that userv is very careful to sanitise file descriptors | 10:43 |
| Kamion | you mention file descriptors being left open in one of your use cases, but don't address what you're going to do about it | 10:44 |
| Keybuk | Kamion: that's more an edgy+1 fix | 10:44 |
| Kamion | ok, wanna note that? | 10:45 |
| Keybuk | trying to split a spec across multiple releases, while retaining enough to describe the intent is hard :p | 10:45 |
| Kamion | understood | 10:45 |
| Kamion | it's just 'cos it's in the use cases | 10:45 |
| Kamion | your configuration file format reminds me of fetchmail ;-) | 10:45 |
| Keybuk | yes | 10:46 |
| Kamion | (whether this is a good thing or a bad, I'm not sure) | 10:46 |
| Keybuk | it's actually just supposed to be a pseudo-format in the spec, to give you an idea of the functionality, rather than the actual format -- because I haven't yet put too much thought into that; as the edgy package will just ship set config files anyway and no other package will | 10:46 |
| mdz | Keybuk: I'm seeing .po file changes I can't attribute in MOM output (e.g., netbase) | 10:46 |
| Keybuk | but it did come out looking very fetchmailish | 10:46 |
| Kamion | yeah, you'd want to deal with stuff like quoting of 'end script' | 10:47 |
| Kamion | but noted that it's pseudo | 10:47 |
| mdz | it seems unlikely that we would have messed with those at all, but there's a delta | 10:47 |
| mdz | it's not in netbase_4.24ubuntu3.patch, so I don't think it came from the package itself | 10:47 |
| mdz | something with the .po file merging? | 10:47 |
| Keybuk | mdz: msg* likes to reflow strings | 10:48 |
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| Kamion | I think --no-wrap suppresses that although I suspect if you passed that to everything it would *never* wrap even though it should | 10:49 |
| Kamion | don't think there's a way to say "wrap iff it was already wrapped" | 10:49 |
| sivang | mdz: should I be waiting for review feedback to come about my two specs, or am I missing some info on the LP spec page for it to be reviewed? (I applied all fixes as noted by previous reviews) | 10:50 |
| Kamion | damn, I'd better finish ubiquity-advanced-partitioner | 10:51 |
| Keybuk | the spec, or the code? :p | 10:53 |
| Kamion | the spec - haven't started yet | 10:53 |
| Kamion | (on the code) | 10:53 |
| === sivang hopes he's not bugging, it's just that spec approval dead line is getting closer, and he would like to know the fixes he needs to apply sooner then later. | ||
| gnomefreak | the issues with ubiquity is from python2.4-* (biggest issue) right? | 10:58 |
| Kamion | gnomefreak: no | 11:00 |
| Kamion | I'm not even sure what that might mean :) | 11:01 |
| gnomefreak | oh ok | 11:01 |
| Kamion | gnomefreak: are you extrapolating from all the crashes being python tracebacks? | 11:02 |
| gnomefreak | yes | 11:02 |
| Kamion | gnomefreak: ubiquity is written in python, so of course all its crashes will be python tracebacks | 11:02 |
| gnomefreak | and im connected that with the python changes | 11:02 |
| gnomefreak | ah | 11:02 |
| Kamion | that doesn't mean it's python's fault | 11:02 |
| gnomefreak | didnt know it was python code | 11:02 |
| Kamion | at any rate the frontend is python, if not all of the backend | 11:03 |
| Keybuk | whew | 11:03 |
| Keybuk | had enough brain-state to redo the merge in just an hour | 11:03 |
| Kamion | if somebody would like to review ubiquity-advanced-partitioner, that'd be welcome | 11:04 |
| Keybuk | sure | 11:05 |
| Kamion | the UI description is unfortunately in text but I think my textual description of a UI will actually be more legible than any drawing I might try to produce :) | 11:05 |
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| dholbach | good night | 11:14 |
| sivang | night dholbach | 11:14 |
| dholbach | night sivang | 11:14 |
| LaserJock | Keybuk: ping? | 11:28 |
| LaserJock | anybody know if new packages in Sid are being automatically included still? | 11:29 |
| Kamion | Keybuk: would appreciate sanity-check of seed-cleanup too | 11:30 |
| Kamion | LaserJock: yes, semi-automatically | 11:30 |
| Keybuk | LaserJock: they have never been automatically included | 11:30 |
| Kamion | there's a script that tells us which ones are new | 11:30 |
| Keybuk | unless you could me (and previously, elmo) being an automated process <g> | 11:30 |
| LaserJock | Keybuk: I do ;-) | 11:30 |
| Keybuk | Kamion: there WAS a script <g. | 11:31 |
| Keybuk | rm $VAR_* is dangerous, m'kay | 11:31 |
| LaserJock | until Paris I has serious concerns that you and elmo were cron jobs ;-) | 11:31 |
| LaserJock | just kidding | 11:31 |
| Keybuk | the script was just taken out of my .bash_history anyway | 11:31 |
| LaserJock | how often are the new ones included? I got an email from a DD that wants to make sure his new packages are included in Edgy | 11:32 |
| Kamion | Keybuk: d'oh | 11:32 |
| Kamion | can you put it back in a less dangerous directory? :) | 11:32 |
| Kamion | like, er, ~/bin | 11:32 |
| Keybuk | Kamion: yeah | 11:32 |
| Keybuk | put it back now :p | 11:34 |
| Keybuk | I've moved sync-source into ~/bin as well | 11:34 |
| Kamion | ta | 11:34 |
| Kamion | hmm, duh, just occurred to me that germinate would probably be a whole lot faster if I made stuff like self.all be sets rather than lists | 11:35 |
| Keybuk | LaserJock: I haven't done new stuff in a week or so though | 11:35 |
| Keybuk | there's a bunch of crap in there I need to get my head around | 11:35 |
| Keybuk | was waiting for some merges to happen too | 11:36 |
| LaserJock | yeah, I can imagine | 11:36 |
| Keybuk | and almost a third of it is X | 11:36 |
| LaserJock | fun | 11:36 |
| Keybuk | I may just forcibly sync X, to see if it motivates anyone into caring about it <g> | 11:36 |
| Keybuk | (actually, I plan to do some of it myself) | 11:37 |
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| Keybuk | holy fuck, what happened to vim?! | 11:59 |
| Kamion | let me guess, you ran into debchangelog folding? | 12:00 |
| Keybuk | yes | 12:00 |
| Keybuk | how do I make it not do that? | 12:00 |
| Kamion | au BufEnter * if &filetype == "debchangelog" | setlocal foldlevel=1000 | endif | 12:00 |
| Kamion | not sure that's perfect but it's what I have | 12:00 |
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| pitti | autocmd FileType debchangelog :set nofoldenable | 12:01 |
| pitti | Kamion, Keybuk: ^ | 12:01 |
| pitti | (my solution, looks a bit cleaner) | 12:01 |
| Kamion | hmm, yeah, that would work too | 12:01 |
| pitti | but I feel this should be the default | 12:01 |
| pitti | right now it's horribly confusing OOTB | 12:02 |
| pitti | (IMHO) | 12:02 |
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| jono | hey | 12:05 |
| Keybuk | hey Mr O'Bacon! | 12:06 |
| Keybuk | how was GUADEC? | 12:06 |
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