[03:00] <mvirkkil> mdke: Check out http://docbook.wikiwikiweb.de/ and open http://docbook.wikiwikiweb.de/A_complete_book?action=show&mimetype=text/book in yelp (Only tested in Yelp 2.14.2)
[03:01] <jsgotangco> wow!
[03:02] <jsgotangco> so its a straight export i assume?
[03:03] <mvirkkil> jsgotangco: Yes.
[03:03] <jsgotangco> nice!
[03:03] <mvirkkil> jsgotangco: :)
[03:03] <jsgotangco> and its self-contained in one file
[03:04] <mvirkkil> jsgotangco: Yes. The images are loaded from the server by yelp.
[03:04] <jsgotangco> ahh yes..i didnt look at the exported code..
[03:04] <mvirkkil> jsgotangco: I've also created a buildbook action, which collects the images and puts them in a zip along with the docbook.
[03:05] <jsgotangco> that is awesome
[03:06] <mvirkkil> jsgotangco: but it doesn't rewrite the urls in the docbook, that is left to the user. Instead it writes a list or map between  url and filename in to a file. 
[03:07] <jsgotangco> yeah it shouldn't be hard to change the urls though...if not tedious if we're talking hundreds of images/files, etc.
[03:07] <mvirkkil> I'm thinking about how to do the rewriting of the urls cleanly inside moin, so I haven't documented or given examples of how to use BuildBook yet.
[03:08] <mvirkkil> But it's basically appending the url with "?action=BuildBook"
[03:09] <mvirkkil> But basically this should work: http://docbook.wikiwikiweb.de/A_complete_book?action=BuildBook
[03:10] <mvirkkil> The mapping file is in resources/url2file-mapping.txt
[03:11] <LaserJock> wow, that rocks hard core
[03:11] <mvirkkil> LaserJock: :D
[03:11] <jsgotangco> yeah
[03:12] <tonyyarusso> I'm not sure I've ever seen people so excited about a text file... ;)
[03:13] <jsgotangco> tonyyarusso: you must be aware of the issue to get excited about it
[03:13] <jsgotangco> :)
[03:13] <tonyyarusso> Yeah, and it whooshed by me, so not so much.
[03:14] <LaserJock> even single wiki page -> docbook is pretty sweet, but a whole book is awesome
[03:15] <jsgotangco> the single xml file is already solid but the whole book is icing...
[03:15] <mvirkkil> btw, to make use of admonitions, people will need to start using the Admonition-macro I wrote.
[03:15] <jsgotangco> now if we could have people write proper wiki pages now...
[03:16] <tonyyarusso> Isn't there one already somewhere?
[03:16] <LaserJock> WikiGuide, yes
[03:16] <mvirkkil> There's at least one on the ubuntu wiki, and another one on the fedora wiki.
[03:16] <crimsun> doesn't really matter, that was facetiousness. Matthew seems inclined to frown on how-tos.
[03:17] <mvirkkil> but my work should outdate a lot of the points in the guide like "FootNote doesn't work" and "Include doesn't work" ;) 
[03:17] <LaserJock> so just don't call it a HowTo ;-)
[03:18] <crimsun> yeah, call it a Guide.
[03:18] <LaserJock> hehe, but don't let mpt know ;-)
[03:19] <jsgotangco> haha
[03:22] <nixternal> then call it a Tutorial...but don't let....know ;)
[03:22] <LaserJock> yeah, in fact don't *call* it anything, it should just "be" ;-)
[03:23] <nixternal> or..just call it the WikiToDocbookHowToTutorialGuide
[03:23] <nixternal> that way there you aren't prejudice to just one person
[03:50] <Burgundavia> well hey everybody
[03:50] <crimsun> hi
[03:50] <mvirkkil> Burgundavia: hi
[03:51] <LaserJock> hi Burgundavia!
[03:51] <Burgundavia> hey LaserJock!
[03:52] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: welcome back
[03:52] <Burgundavia> New Orleans is mad, crazy mad, but fun
[03:52] <Burgundavia> I am glad I don't live in the US
[03:53] <jsgotangco> lol
[03:53] <OHPhoneGuy> The US isn't that bad....it's just the leadership and his fanclub :)
[03:53] <jsgotangco> i agree
[03:53] <LaserJock> I was thinking "man, I'm glad I live in the US" when I got home from Paris ;-)
[03:53] <jsgotangco> haha
[03:54] <jsgotangco> you just got culture shocked after being away from the mainland for a week
[03:54] <LaserJock> heh
[03:54] <jsgotangco> you'll probably take the next flight home if you went to asia
[03:54] <LaserJock> I get that when I go east of the Rockies too :-)
[03:55] <crimsun> silly left coasters.
[03:55] <LaserJock> hehe
[03:55] <LaserJock> I love the West, it'd be really hard to get me to move out of it
[03:56] <LaserJock> I like the Midwest too from what little I've seen of it
[03:57] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: im bound to chicago in october, how long would a flight be to reno from o'hare?
[03:57] <Burgundavia> the south is a very different place than the west
[03:57] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco: couple of hours
[03:57] <jsgotangco> 2?3?4?
[03:57] <LaserJock> I'd guess 3
[03:58] <crimsun> Burgundavia: the south is fairly segmented, too
[03:59] <crimsun> (south vs. southeast vs. florida)
[03:59] <Burgundavia> tell me about it
[03:59] <Burgundavia> I will be posting my disaster tour pictures at some point
[04:04] <Burgundavia> how was UDS?
[04:08] <LaserJock> fun, really busy (to me anyway)
[04:10] <Burgundavia> they tend to be
[04:11] <Burgundavia> Mataro was a little more relaxed, but it was a hackathon as wel
[04:11] <Burgundavia> l
[04:14] <LaserJock> yeah, I've never been to any other linuxy conference/summit so I can't really compare it to anything
[04:15] <LaserJock> It was really cool to meet people though
[04:15] <Burgundavia> I wish I could have made it and GUADEC
[04:15] <Burgundavia> I will not miss next year
[04:16] <LaserJock> heh, I just realized yesterday that GUADEC was a Gnome conf.
[04:16] <jsgotangco> me too
[04:16] <jsgotangco> i planned going to germany, but work went to the way
[04:16] <jsgotangco> i had the chance to go to this year, but then, i didn't prepare for it
[04:17] <crimsun> I'd love to not have administrivia block all FLOSS travel plans.
[04:19] <LaserJock> crimsun: yeah, that really sucks dude
[04:19] <LaserJock> crimsun: would it be easier if it was in the US?
[04:19] <mpt> nixternal, try WikiToDocbookHowToTutorialGuideEnablingYouToGenerateUserDocumentationDeliverables
[04:19] <mpt> just to get all the buzzwords in there :-)
[04:19] <jsgotangco> lol
[04:20] <LaserJock> mpt: nice
[04:20] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: never going to happen in the US
[04:21] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: blame the Dept. of Homeland Insecurity and Bush
[04:21] <crimsun> LaserJock: yes
[04:21] <crimsun> LaserJock: I'm only required to apply for foreign travel
[04:21] <mpt> Burgundavia, I thought it was more about the DMCA
[04:21] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: I'm not so sure
[04:22] <Burgundavia> are we talking about conferences?
[04:22] <LaserJock> yeah
[04:22] <crimsun> mpt: sweet, that sounds like a TODO ;)
[04:22] <Burgundavia> then my point stands
[04:23] <LaserJock> perhaps, but I heard some somewhat encouraging things in Paris
[04:24] <LaserJock> but mostly Brazil was the hot topic for the next one it seemed
[04:25] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: you were thinking about Ubucon no?
[04:25] <LaserJock> pehaps, if it happens
[04:25] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: i doubt that (bandwidth considering)
[04:25] <LaserJock> I haven't seen any activity since that first week
[04:26] <jsgotangco> Brazil has always come up during BoFs but only got to as far as LP sprints considering almost half of LP is brazilian
[04:26] <Burgundavia> yep
[04:26] <Burgundavia> Brazil is not too expensive to get to, either
[04:26] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: that would be my worry too, especially since Paris seemed pretty bad
[04:26] <jsgotangco> yeah
[04:26] <jsgotangco> would you go if its in India?
[04:26] <jsgotangco> hehe
[04:27] <jsgotangco> (Chennai for instance)
[04:28] <LaserJock> hmm, right now I feel like I've had enough international travel
[04:28] <LaserJock> but I really do want to try it again
[04:32] <jsgotangco> you should see the other side of the world!
[04:33] <jsgotangco> and get your bodyclock really get screwed
[04:33] <LaserJock> heh, I'm still trying to get over my cold
[04:34] <jsgotangco> but i guess continental america is more than enough for some
[04:34] <jsgotangco> i know some people who haven't even left their home states heh
[04:34] <LaserJock> my dad hasn't ever been west of Montana his entire life
[04:34] <crimsun> let's hope sites can be determined >3 months prior :/
[04:35] <crimsun> (that's the avg processing time for an application)
[04:35] <jsgotangco> yeah
[04:39] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: was that your first time off NA?
[04:39] <LaserJock> yeah
[04:40] <LaserJock> I went to mexico for a brief visit when I was a kid
[04:40] <LaserJock> didn't need a passport or anything
[04:40] <Burgundavia> oh wow
[04:40] <LaserJock> never even been to Canada :(
[04:41] <LaserJock> although I did get close when I went on a little sailing in Puget Sound
[04:42] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: hopefully i didn't scare you when we got to meet ;)
[04:42] <jsgotangco> hehe
[04:43] <LaserJock> scare?
[04:43] <jsgotangco> or was it the other way around?
[04:43] <jsgotangco> lol
[04:45] <LaserJock> it was great to meet everybody, although I'm somewhat antisocial ;-)
[04:46] <LaserJock> Ian is the only one that I'm going to have a harder time talking to after meeting in person :-)
[04:46] <LaserJock> some of that was due to reading about him more
[04:46] <jsgotangco> i decided to go back to the hotel with you on the last day because i thought you're already a bit worried on going back and all...
[04:47] <LaserJock> yeah, I was
[04:48] <LaserJock> well, I was really trying to get ahold of my wife and I couldn't get through
[04:48] <LaserJock> and Paris was not exactly the most friendly place to me ;-)
[04:48] <jsgotangco> yeah it can get scary when you're all alone in a foreign place with no one to call to, or at least know anyone from it
[04:49] <LaserJock> I'm soooo glad you guys were there
[04:49] <LaserJock> the Edubuntu/LTSP gang was awesome
[04:50] <jsgotangco> rodrigo is pretty cool too :)
[04:50] <LaserJock> yeah
[04:51] <LaserJock> and Jonathon was great, especially when I lost my wallet
[04:52] <LaserJock> anyway ...
[04:53] <LaserJock> it's too bad we didn't really have any real doc BOFs
[04:53] <LaserJock> but with all the specs to go over I don't know that I would have had time
[04:58] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: so how long were you in New Orleans?
[04:59] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: week and a half
[05:00] <LaserJock> must have been awefully hot
[05:00] <LaserJock> I flew in and out of Houston on my way to Paris, even the airport terminals were quite hot and humid
[05:14] <Burgundavia> is this a dead dbus session bus? "Unhandled Exception: DBus.DBusException: No reply within specified time"
[05:14] <Burgundavia> ?
[05:34] <Burgundavia> http://i.somethingawful.com/inserts/articlepics/photoshop/06-30-06-movies/cuntfish_01.jpg
[05:34] <jsgotangco> lol
[05:36] <Burgundavia> http://www.somethingawful.com/index.php?a=3911 <-- part of this string
[05:36] <Burgundavia> all are pretty good
[06:59] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: I'm not sure what to do with the Developer's Reference, I did some more digging around
[07:00] <LaserJock> jsgotangco: It's written in debiandoc SGML
[07:00] <crimsun> you /love/ debdoc.
[07:00] <jsgotangco> joy
[07:00] <LaserJock> and the debian version seems to be updated 1 or 2 times a year
[07:00] <LaserJock> I'm already behind (using the last 2005 version)
[07:01] <LaserJock> and it seems debian want to covert to docbook
[07:01] <LaserJock> so I'm wondering if it really would be better to fork and covert to docbook
[07:02] <jsgotangco> probably ask ian's opinion
[07:02] <LaserJock> I don't know how I'm supposed to maintain the doc as a giant patch to Debian that will need to be merged all the time
[07:02] <jsgotangco> im sure you'll get a good reply =)
[07:02] <crimsun> I try to avoid deltas
[07:03] <crimsun> sure, it means you end up tearing your hair out
[07:03] <crimsun> on the other hand, it forces you to learn a lot rather quickly
[07:03] <LaserJock> well, see he created debiandoc SGML so I'm a little nervous to be like "let's convert to docbook!"
[07:03] <jsgotangco> lol
[07:03] <crimsun> well, do you /want/ to convert to docbook?
[07:03] <jsgotangco> be brave
[07:03] <LaserJock> but as upstream seems like they are going to be do it soon ...
[07:04] <crimsun> if so you want four or five solid technical advantages
[07:04] <LaserJock> my bigger concern is carrying around this huge delta
[07:04] <crimsun> that should be the least of your concerns
[07:04] <LaserJock> I'd really rather fork it and create a seperate package
[07:05] <crimsun> ...and create more work for yourself?
[07:05] <crimsun> well, it's your time
[07:05] <LaserJock> crimsun: well, I'd kinda like to know before I start putting a lot of effort
[07:05] <jsgotangco> if the delta can be justified why not?
[07:05] <LaserJock> well, as I see it, it will take more effort to maintain a huge patch on the debian doc than to just fork it
[07:05] <crimsun> jsgotangco: that's my point. If a fork is being proposed, there have to be solid technical advantages, not just maintenance advantages
[07:06] <LaserJock> I'm also wondering about translations issues
[07:07] <crimsun> ok, suppose you fork it and use docbook. How do you propose to keep upstream current of your changes?
[07:08] <LaserJock> crimsun: I don't know that upstream should care
[07:09] <crimsun> LaserJock: why not? You're not necessarily changing upstream wholescale, but you may well have patches
[07:09] <LaserJock> hmmm
[07:12] <LaserJock> right now I'd term it a derivative more than a patch
[07:13] <jsgotangco> bhuvan: did you silk screened it yourself? =)
[07:13] <jsgotangco> because its on a bunch of newsprints heh
[07:14] <bhuvan> jsgotango :) nope. it's just during the photo session :) :)
[07:14] <jsgotangco> bhuvan: you should have worn it and took a picture of yourself hehe
[07:15] <bhuvan> jsgotangco: i'll do that
[07:18] <LaserJock> crimsun and jsgotangco: so you guys think its worth it to try to maintain it as a delta?
[07:19] <jsgotangco> weigh the technical advantages/disadvantagas as crimsun said so
[07:19] <jsgotangco> make up a list
[07:19] <jsgotangco> with a brief explanation and show it to ian since you're the guy who approached him about it
[07:20] <LaserJock> k, I just got a little overwhelmed when I saw that I've got a pretty sizable diff from the lates debian version that I'll need to merge before I've even started
[07:21] <jsgotangco> im sure if you have data it should be easier for people to chew it and accept your proposal
[07:22] <jsgotangco> and probably even say "hey, i could even add this to rosetta so.."
[07:22] <LaserJock> yeah, I'd like to be able to have translations, Debian has french and japanese version in the package
[07:23] <LaserJock> so any diff will basically through out those translations unless I can get people to translate them for me
[07:23] <LaserJock> s/through/throw/
[07:34] <Burgundavia> hey nixternal_
[07:34] <nixternal_> hey Burgundavia 
[07:35] <nixternal_> how was the trip?
[07:36] <jsgotangco> LaserJock: if its in rosetta, im sure people will dive in
[07:42] <LaserJock> hmm, I wonder if there is a debiandoc2po 
[07:54] <nixternal_> nothing like laying in bed, watching tv, and doing some wiki work ;)
[07:57] <Burgundavia> nixternal_: you really don't need to email us for every page, but you are doing great work
[07:59] <nixternal_> np Burgundavia 
[07:59] <nixternal_> i appreciate the complement
[08:05] <nixternal_> Burgundavia: what does the travel agenda look like for you in the future?
[08:05] <Burgundavia> nixternal_: thankfully currently pretty free
[08:05] <nixternal_> any plans on docteam meetings for edgy documentation?
[08:05] <Burgundavia> I expect a trip to Colorado in a near future (1-2 months) plus I am thinking of going to Ubucon
[08:07] <Burgundavia> nixternal_: i would love to have a docteam meeting. Can you chat with mdke and get a good time together, etc?
[08:08] <Burgundavia> anyway, I am truly exhausted and need to sleep
[08:08] <Burgundavia> night all
[08:09] <nixternal_> mdke: ^^ Corey would love to have a meeting. I am open to any times you all choose.
[08:10] <nixternal_> ;_
[08:46] <mvirkkil> jeffsch: I'm starting work on docbook->moin by the end of this week.
[08:48] <mvirkkil> jeffsch: I see you've already done the license change, thanks :) 
[08:50] <mdke> mvirkkil: extremely nice
[08:52] <mdke> good work!
[08:53] <mdke> mvirkkil: how does linking/cross referencing work?
[09:02] <mvirkkil> mdke: It doesn't :/
[09:02] <mdke> ah
[09:05] <mvirkkil> mdke: It's tricky to know what would point to something inside the generated document, and where there, since docbook has basically no support for anchors.
[09:06] <jsgotangco> the results are still nice though!
[09:06] <mvirkkil> mdke: currently any url is converted to an absolute url.
[09:07] <jsgotangco> grrr does this list spam ever end
[09:07] <rob> ?
[09:08] <mvirkkil> I'm going to focus on other parts from here on. But if you find bugs, please let me know.
[09:08] <jsgotangco> rob: ubuntu-doc gets around 50+ spam a day catched by the list of course
[09:09] <mdke> jsgotangco: it's not so bad as -translators
[09:09] <mdke> mvirkkil: gotcha
[09:09] <rob> jsgotangco, yeah I bet
[09:10] <jsgotangco> really hehe
[09:10] <mdke> mvirkkil: the xml is still really ugly... did you consider tidy?
[09:11] <mvirkkil> mdke: It's not ugly :) 
[09:11] <mdke> it is
[09:11] <mdke> mvirkkil: open it in a text editor
[09:11] <mvirkkil> mdke: I could consider adding a configuration switch for outputting PrettyPrinted.
[09:11] <jsgotangco> it is
[09:11] <mdke> then run "tidy -xml -i filename > newfilename" and compare the two
[09:11] <mvirkkil> Yeah, I know what you are talking about.
[09:12] <mvirkkil> "xmllint --format filename" probably does that too.
[09:12] <mdke> ok
[09:12] <mvirkkil> mdke: The thing is that it could easily break the validity of the generated document, since pcdata is only allowed inside certain tags.
[09:12] <mdke> so it does
[09:13] <mvirkkil> mdke: and the spaces and enters are "text" ==pcdata which isn't allowed everywhere, according to the dtd.
[09:14] <mdke> it doesn't seem to break it for the A_complete_book file
[09:14] <mdke> anyway, it would definitely be worth working that out, if it is possible
[09:14] <mvirkkil> the "ugliness" is just a result of how I serialize the dom, I could just as easily use the PrettyPrint which would result in the output you are looking for.
[09:15] <mdke> right
[09:15] <mdke> we definitely need it like that to be able to work with it
[09:15] <mdke> so it's either you, or us doing it manually afterwards :)
[09:15] <mvirkkil> mdke: Ok, I'll make the PrettyPrint default then.
[09:15] <mdke> great
[09:17] <mvirkkil> mdke: done
[09:19] <mdke> mvirkkil: looks the same...
[09:19] <mvirkkil> mdke: You are hitting the browser cache bug.
[09:19] <mdke> ah
[09:19] <mdke> it isn't in the page cache I suppose?
[09:20] <mvirkkil> mdke: I'm bugging some senior moin devs about why moin tells the browser it hasn't changed.
[09:20] <mvirkkil> wget -U "" -O tmp.xml  "http://docbook.wikiwikiweb.de/A_complete_book?action=show&mimetype=text/book"
[09:20] <mvirkkil> mdke: --^
[09:20] <mvirkkil> wget doesn't do fancy cache things ;)
[09:21] <mvirkkil> mdke: Better?
[09:22] <mvirkkil> btw, you are right, the page still validates. I wonder why I ever switched away from PrettyPrinting.
[09:23] <mdke> ok
[09:24] <mdke> a lot better yeah :)
[10:19] <mdke> mvirkkil: what are the chances of the docbook stuff being available as a patch for 1.5?
[10:38] <mvirkkil> mdke: http://hg.thinkmo.de/moin/1.6-docbook-mvirkkil
[10:38] <mvirkkil> mdke: I'm working against 1.6 trunk
[10:38] <mdke> mvirkkil: yeah, I know.
[10:39] <mdke> that's why I asked
[10:39] <mvirkkil> mdke: Hmm.. Then I guess there is no patch against 1.5.
[10:40] <mdke> mvirkkil: what I meant was, is there any chance that in the future there will be?
[10:40] <mdke> how difficult would it be, etc
[10:44] <mvirkkil> mdke: Well, there is a good chance a lot of the stuff would work by just dropping them in. I've made one extremely trivial patch to Page.py, other than that, my changes are contained to the files I've created.
[10:47] <mvirkkil> So dropping in Admonitions-macro, Insert-macro, text_docbook-formatter, text_book-formatter, and BuildBook-action in addition to the trivial patch to Page.py should make everything pretty much work.
[10:47] <mdke> mvirkkil: when is 1.6 expected to be released?
[10:47] <mvirkkil> There might be some issues with the FootNote macro, since it might still use illegal formatter calls in 1.5, but I don't know.
[10:47] <mvirkkil> mdke: Quoting moin-devs "when it's done"
[10:48] <mdke> and how is it now?
[10:48] <mvirkkil> mdke: I've bugged them about that issue too.
[10:48] <mvirkkil> mdke: I think they'll hold out for the SoC work to be completed. 
[10:48] <mdke> oh, so quite soon then
[10:49] <mvirkkil> mdke: Well, my very non-informed guess would be before christmas.
[10:49] <mdke> ah
[10:50] <mdke> well, it might be worth trying to get a patch for 1.5 then, I suspect most projects would be willing to try and get 1.5 working rather than wait until christmas
[10:50] <mvirkkil> mdke: But I don't know. Stuff like the backend rewrite seems to be quite far from completion, and might take some time to stabilize.
[10:51] <mvirkkil> mdke: but then again, they might just push 1.6 when the SoC is done with everything thats good then, and wait for 1.7 for the backend stuff.
[10:51] <mvirkkil> mdke: There is just no way of knowing at this point.
[10:51] <mdke> right
[10:52] <mdke> well, I suspect that we will look to upgrade to 1.5 fairly soon
[10:53] <mvirkkil> mdke: My SoC timetable is quite tight, so I won't be able to look in to creating ports. 
[10:54] <mdke> ah, ok
[10:55] <mdke> mvirkkil: well, maybe I will have a go, or I will ask you to help me after you finish the project or something
[10:59] <mvirkkil> mdke: Ok. You might just want to test dropping the files I mentioned, and patching Page.py (with http://hg.thinkmo.de/moin/1.6-docbook-mvirkkil?cs=26a8f963474c) 
[11:00] <mvirkkil> mdke: naturally not on a production wiki ;) 
[11:01] <mdke> sure
[11:01] <mdke> I'll use my trusty desktop wiki
[12:01] <Madpilot> mdke, you must have gotten in touch w/ TrevorPounds - I noticed that he's moved his Games work over to huc/c
[12:02] <mdke> ah, nice.
[12:02] <mdke> Madpilot: I left a message on the page
[12:02] <Madpilot> cool
[12:03] <Madpilot> now we just need to get him to remove some of the duplication he's created - we've now got two Enemy Territory pages, for example
[12:48] <Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CategoryDocumentation is down to 11 entries - most of them non-English. I'm sure we're missing bits and pieces, though.
[12:48] <Madpilot> anyway, need sleep - night all.
[01:26] <mvirkkil> mdke: Ok, using PrettyPrint will cause the rendering of <screen> to break.
[01:27] <mvirkkil> mdke: In addition, I just synced with trunk, and that seems to have broken something else. I'll need to investigate a bit.
[01:33] <mvirkkil> mdke: Ok, so trunk just changed how spaces are handled in links, which broke my "A complete book" example. Now fixed.
[01:33] <mvirkkil> mdke: But the prettyprint issue remains.
[01:34] <mdke> mvirkkil: ah, pesky screen
[01:35] <mvirkkil> mdke: One could hack around it, by removing any linebreaks and whitespace between <screen> and <!CDATA
[01:35] <mvirkkil> mdke: or force a linefeed to begin <!CDATA
[01:36] <mvirkkil> I mean "force a linefeed to be inserted at the beginning of a <!CDATA
[01:36] <mdke> hmm
[01:36] <mdke> how is the rendering broken if there is a whitespace after <screen>?
[01:36] <mdke> we have a lot of those :)
[01:37] <mvirkkil> Well, you get the whitespace inside the screen. So the first line is indented by the amount of whitespace.
[01:37] <Luna-Tick> Hi guys
[01:38] <mdke> mvirkkil: what about linebreaks? same thing?
[01:39] <mvirkkil> mdke: http://users.tkk.fi/~mvirkkil/whitespacebug.png
[01:40] <Luna-Tick> I was working through https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSHHowto (the Public key authentication step) and found that I needed to add an ssh-add between generating the key (ssh-keygen -t dsa) and sending it (ssh-copy-id) in order to get the step-by-step instructions to work.
[01:40] <mvirkkil> Prettyprint is smart enough not to mess with the contents of a textnode with no children. Unfortunately <screen> has a <!CDATA section as a "child"
[01:40] <mdke> Luna-Tick: yeah, good point
[01:41] <Luna-Tick> :)
[01:41] <mvirkkil> but the <!CDATA that contains the actual text, is a "textnode" so it doesn't get messed up
[01:42] <mvirkkil> mdke: In that image, each ----- mark should start at the same place horizontally.
[01:42] <mdke> i c
[01:42] <mdke> yeah
[01:42] <Luna-Tick> I don't know anything about it so thought I would tell someone else rather than change it. Shall I report it somewhere else or is it fine leaving it with you? (Sorry - I see you are in the middle of a different convo)
[01:43] <mdke> Luna-Tick: you can fix it yourself, or I will fix it later on, if you prefer
[01:43] <mvirkkil> mdke: But this will also hit us with a vengance when we do syntax highlighting, 
[01:43] <mdke> hmm?
[01:44] <mvirkkil> mdke: well, since each syntax highlighted bit is an element, but the whitespace between them is _very_ significant.
[01:44] <mvirkkil> significant == important to preserve.
[01:45] <mdke> what sort of syntax highlighting are you talking about?
[01:45] <mdke> mvirkkil: so really this is a bug in whatever program you are using to make the pretty xml code, it should leave screen alone, right?
[01:45] <Luna-Tick> Thanks mdke - it would be great if you could. Also, you may like to check the name of the authorized_keys file in the doc; it is given as "authorized_keys2" but it seems to be "authorized_keys" on a Dapper box. Keep up the great work, everyone, we all appreciate it!
[01:46] <mvirkkil> mdke: Well, codesnippets are automatically syntax highlighted thanks to moins support for doing so. Docbook supports giving a <programlisting>
[01:47] <Luna-Tick> ciao
[01:47] <mdke> mvirkkil: ah, i see
[01:48] <mvirkkil> mdke: Hmm.. Looking at the trivial example I have, it might work to just strip any linebreaks and whitespace that are around a <!CDATA section.
[01:49] <mdke> but it's a bug in the program you use for the pretty code, rather than in your thing, right?
[01:49] <mvirkkil> mdke: Yes.
[01:49] <mdke> what program is that, xmllint?
[01:50] <mvirkkil> mdke: no, it's the 4dom
[01:50] <mvirkkil> mdke: no, it's the 4dom's string serializer, which can do prettyprint
[01:50] <mvirkkil> mdke: But the same problem might exist in xmllint.
[01:50] <mdke> I don't know. But maybe you can report it and get it fixed by those developers
[01:53] <mvirkkil> mdke: Hmm.. A quick manual test would indicate that xmllint doesn't have that problem.
[01:54] <mdke> good news
[02:00] <mvirkkil> mdke: 3.5years old report of the problem: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2002-December/008893.html
[02:00] <mdke> bloody hell
[02:06] <mvirkkil> :/
[02:18] <mvirkkil> mdke: The CDATA stuff wasn't in my original version, but were added later. The commit doesn't explicitly mention why they were needed. Maybe I could get away with removing them.. No, wait, I couldn't, since that would make it impossible to handle <programlisting> without special casing it. This way we just need to "special case" CDATA nodes, which is ok imho.
[02:19] <mvirkkil> or the formatter would need to have proper support for them in the first place...grumble grumble...
[02:28] <mdke> mvirkkil: I suppose generating it without pretty print and then running xmllint or tidy over it wouldn't be a good option?
[02:30] <mvirkkil> mdke: On the serverside? It would add a really weird dependency.
[02:30] <mvirkkil> mdke: On the client side? Yeah, sure. Why not.
[02:31] <mdke> mvirkkil: I don't know which side :)
[04:16] <jjesse> just wanted to let people know that i have taken ownership of bug #51865 and will be uploading the change on wednesday when i'm back to work w/ my laptop that has svn on it ;)
[04:17] <jjesse> meant bug #51685
[04:18] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 51685 in kubuntu-docs "Wrong spelling of Amarok" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/51685
[05:40] <newz2000> anyone seen a "getting started with launchpad" doc/tutorial?
[05:42] <jjesse> maybe on the launchpad wiki? wiki.launchpad.net?
[05:44] <newz2000> jjesse: that doesn't resolve for me, I think that launchpad just uses the wiki.u.c website
[05:45] <newz2000> Ah, I think I found it on the wiki.u.c. Thanks for the pointer.
[05:48] <mdke> hi there newz2000 
[05:49] <newz2000> hello mdke
[05:49] <jjesse> newz2000: it was just a guess for me
[05:49] <mdke> welcome aboard :)
[05:49] <newz2000> thanks
[05:50] <newz2000> I just had a surprise this weekend...
[05:50] <mdke> newz2000: there aren't any officially prepared docs for launchpad except for some titbits on wiki.launchpad.canonical.com
[05:50] <newz2000> I got a check from a magazine I wrote an article for last fall... I'm a professional writer now!
[05:50] <newz2000> I'm looking at the blueprint docs now
[05:51] <mdke> #launchpad will help you out more too
[05:51] <newz2000> ok, I'll join there
[05:51] <newz2000> ah, w.l.c.c looks like a great place to start
[05:53] <mdke> newz2000: how's it going so far?
[05:54] <newz2000> Its a little new. There's a lot of info. Different tools too.
[05:54] <mdke> yeah, can immagine
[05:54] <newz2000> But exciting!
[05:54] <mdke> :)
[05:54] <newz2000> are you in north america?
[05:54] <mdke> no, UK
[05:56] <newz2000> That's going to take some getting used to. I think I'm in the minority as a western hemisphere person.
[05:56] <mdke> well... people are everywhere
[05:57] <mdke> lots of aussies, americans, europeans especially
[05:58] <newz2000> Yeah. I'll probably hang out here a lot, since I can envision working with doc stuff a lot. I talked to henrik and he mentioned the help.u.c site changes. It looks good.
[05:59] <mdke> yeah, we have a traditionally close relationship with the webmaster, thanks to henrik
[05:59] <mdke> be great to have you in here
[06:01] <mdke> as I was saying to matthewrevell the other day, you can't have too many Matthew's
[06:01] <matthewrevell> newz2000: You a Matthew too?
[06:01] <newz2000> :-D how true.
[06:01] <newz2000> Indeed!
[06:01] <mdke> that's 4 in here
[06:01] <matthewrevell> We shall rule Ubuntu.
[06:01] <matthewrevell> :)
[06:02] <newz2000> That will get confusing I think.
[06:02] <newz2000> I can't wait for the "matthew" jokes that come up.
[06:02] <matthewrevell> Matthubuntu
[06:02] <matthewrevell> newz2000: Are there any?
[06:02] <mdke> morning Burgwork 
[06:02] <newz2000> New Job opening - qualifications: ... must be named "matthew"
[06:02] <matthewrevell> Right, I've gotta drive home. Later guys
[06:04] <mdke> newz2000: I wish
[06:18] <nixternal> moins everyone
[06:23] <mvirkkil> nixternal: evening ;)
[06:41] <Burgwork> hey mdke 
[07:44] <jenda> Is Daniell Robitaille around?
[07:44] <jenda> ah, he uses 'robitaille', dunhe. I guess I'll have to wait then.
[07:44] <Burgwork> jenda, he is robitaille and is usually only here in the evenings, PDT
[07:44] <Burgwork> about 7-9 hours from now
[07:46] <jenda> beautiful :) makes it 2-4 o'clock in the morning for me :)
[07:46] <Burgwork> jenda, what you do you need to talk to him about. I am in the same timezone (in fact, the same city) as him
[07:46] <jenda> Would you happen to know if meeting logs get included in /MeetingLogs automatically, or is it per-request?
[07:47] <Burgwork> that is done by him, provided you meet in #ubuntu-meeting
[07:47] <jenda> We happen to have a fairly productive meeting at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-2006-06-28.html
[07:47] <Burgwork> make certain the timing is on the fridge calendar and it will be done
[07:47] <jenda> But it hasn't been put up there yet, so I was wondering.
[07:48] <jenda> the meeting was fridged
[07:48] <Burgwork> likely he has been busy then
[07:48] <Burgwork> it is a long weekend in Canada and he may be away on vacation
[07:49] <jenda> no probs then
[07:50] <jenda> (11 hrs gone - he seems to be home)