[12:20] <adamant1988> nixternal :)
[12:35] <adamant1988> nixternal are you there?
[01:24] <gaz00>  /j #bzr
[01:24] <gaz00> sorry ;)
[01:33] <nixternal> adamant1988: im here now!! ;)
[01:41] <adamant1988> so nixternal I got photoshop
[01:41] <nixternal> cool ;)
[01:43] <adamant1988> but not imageready...
[01:43] <adamant1988> erm
[01:43] <adamant1988> illustrator...
[01:43] <adamant1988> duh...
[01:43] <nixternal> hehe
[01:46] <adamant1988> yeah so that means Im' stuck with inkscape for logos =\
[01:47] <nixternal> hehe
[01:47] <nixternal> you can't win um all
[01:47] <adamant1988> ech.. this one.. it was kind of important to me... lol.
[01:49] <adamant1988> I guess I'll have to learn how to use inkscape more  =\
[01:50] <nixternal> i haven't messed with inkscape much
[01:51] <nixternal> right now i am building a new chroot and pbuilder for edgy packaging on my other system
[01:51] <nixternal> right now it seems to be working good
[01:52] <adamant1988> I would like to learn how to do those things... but it's occured to me that my expertise lies in the puzzles of marketing...
[01:52] <nixternal> hehe
[01:52] <nixternal> im learning the whole packaging thing myself
[01:52] <nixternal> i have done it years ago...but i don't remember much of it
[01:53] <jsgotangco> good morning
[01:53] <nixternal> morning to you jsgotangco
[01:53] <nixternal> good morning that is
[01:54] <jsgotangco> packaging eh?
[01:54] <nixternal> trying it again
[01:54] <nixternal> i figure to be useless for edgy packaging right now, but prepare for edgy+1
[01:54] <jsgotangco> its fun but something i don't have the patience to do
[01:54] <nixternal> if i remember back in the early days, i didn't have patience either, as it would tie up a system for days
[01:55] <adamant1988> that was WEIRD.
[01:55] <jsgotangco> that's true
[01:55] <nixternal> adamant1988: make sure you are using port 8001
[01:55] <nixternal> don't use 6667 or 6668
[01:55] <adamant1988> why?
[01:55] <adamant1988> did you just do that?
[01:55] <nixternal> as the script kiddies will kill you with dcc hacks
[01:55] <adamant1988> no that was no kick
[01:56] <adamant1988> my whole computer locked.
[01:56] <nixternal> ahhh
[01:56] <nixternal> still...connect via 8001 from now on ;)
[01:56] <adamant1988> that was freaky as hell... pardon the language.
[01:56] <adamant1988> what could cause that?
[01:56] <nixternal> gnome ;)
[01:56] <adamant1988> so gnome just hard-locked my computer?
[01:57] <nixternal> muhahah
[01:57] <adamant1988> volume is messed up too
[01:58] <jsgotangco> doh
[01:59] <adamant1988> weird...
[01:59] <adamant1988> would gnome also mess up my volume?
[02:00] <nixternal> couldn't tell you...i tend to stay away from gnome ;)
[02:00] <adamant1988> well that was just plain weird..
[02:00] <adamant1988> can I make my desktop into kde without screwing anything up?
[02:03] <nixternal> sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop
[02:03] <nixternal> you will have gnome and kde that way
[02:03] <adamant1988> how will I switch?
[02:04] <adamant1988> also is there any risk of that breaking something?
[02:08] <adamant1988> nixternal?
[02:08] <tonyyarusso> adamant1988: At the login menu, click "Sessions" and choose KDE.
[02:08] <adamant1988> and the risks?
[02:08] <tonyyarusso> adamant1988: No, it won't break anything.  I had Gnome, KDE, XFCE, Fluxbox, Openbox, fvwm, and a few others all once, and it was all well and good.
[02:08] <adamant1988> ok, how can I get it to default to kde?
[02:08] <tonyyarusso> adamant1988: Okay, one risk: Your Gnome menu will be cluttered with KDE apps.
[02:09] <tonyyarusso> That's it.
[02:09] <tonyyarusso> adamant1988: When you log in using KDE it will ask you whether it's a one time thing or if you'd like to make it default.
[02:09] <tonyyarusso> So just click "Make default"
[02:09] <adamant1988> ok, I'm trusting you guys...
[02:09] <adamant1988> can this be done through synaptic or add/remove?
[02:09] <tonyyarusso> Synaptic for sure.  Add/remove I doubt.
[02:10] <adamant1988> ok, synaptic it is
[02:10] <adamant1988> I like synaptic
[02:13] <adamant1988> downloading...
[02:14] <adamant1988> I was told that the freeze could have been a kernel panic.
[02:24] <adamant1988> tonyyarusso, will all of my applications remain in the menu and so forth when I install kubuntu?
[02:25] <tonyyarusso> adamant1988: Yeah, you'll have them from both environments.
[02:25] <adamant1988> awesome
[02:25] <adamant1988> I will have to play around.. if gnome was the culprit behind that crash then kubuntu it is for me.
[02:26] <adamant1988> Is it true that Mark Shuttleworth uses kubuntu?
[02:26] <tonyyarusso> That's what I've heard anyway.
[02:26] <adamant1988> oh well, as long as there isn't a risk of losing my computer by doing this, I'm all for experimentation
[02:27] <tonyyarusso> The worst case scenario of 95% of things you can do is losing the ability to boot, and then you'd just grab a live cd to get your data and then reinstall.
[02:29] <adamant1988> yeah... but that's a lot of data..
[02:30] <adamant1988> more importantly, I'm worried about my packages... I'll have to look for a backup program as soon as I am done in synaptic.
[02:31] <adamant1988> is kde as fast or faster than gnome (just curious)
[02:35] <adamant1988> ok reboot time...
[02:35] <adamant1988> wish me luck...
[02:47] <adamant1988> yay I'm back
[02:49] <kgoetz> wb
[02:51] <adamant1988> everything went pretty smoothly
[02:51] <adamant1988> although for some reason the first time I restarted it was gnome -_-
[02:55] <kgoetz> you have to set your default DE
[02:55] <kgoetz> re packages: dpkg --get-selections > myPackageList
[02:56] <kgoetz> dselct install <myPackageList
[02:57] <adamant1988> I have it set now..
[02:57] <adamant1988> I was just saying I thought it was weird that it did that
[02:59] <adamant1988> hrmm
[02:59] <adamant1988> this is no good...
[02:59] <adamant1988> I can't open up the display option in the control panel...
[03:06] <adamant1988> nixternal... that failed miserably...
[03:12] <adamant1988> wait nevermind that wasn't kde's fault
[05:57] <adamant1988> nixternal, I like your kubuntu suggestion :) everything is showing up in the menus like it's supposed to, etc.
[05:58] <nixternal> hehe
[05:58] <nixternal> good deal
[05:58] <nixternal> im debating on taking my laptop up to bed and chilling!!!
[05:58] <nixternal> ;)
[06:00] <adamant1988> haha... and I found sodipodi in adept...
[06:00] <adamant1988> why wasn't it in add/remove...
[06:13] <Burgundavia> adamant1988: likely no .desktop file
[06:13] <Burgundavia> adamant1988: file a bug
[06:16] <adamant1988> ok :)
[06:22] <adamant1988> nixternal you wouldn't know how to add a program to my startups would you?
[06:22] <adamant1988> I know how to do it under gnome... but not kde
[08:05] <damned> morning all
[08:06] <kgoetz> hey
[10:03] <matthewrevell> morning all
[10:04] <kgoetz> hey mate
[10:08] <KenSentMe> Good morning
[10:09] <Madpilot> morning
[10:09] <Madpilot> 0109 is morning, more or less ;)
[10:10] <matthewrevell> I've just spent a weekend wrestling to get Dapper installed on a ThinkPad. Turns out the installer has a bug with some Intel graphics chips. Urg.
[10:10] <matthewrevell> The installer team are onto it tho'.
[12:44] <digitalmouse> greetings programs!
[12:45] <kgoetz> hey :)
[12:45] <KenSentMe> hi there
[12:46] <kgoetz> :)
[12:49] <matthewrevell> all well?
[12:53] <kgoetz> not bad, if a little tired. self?
[01:04] <matthewrevell> Just found out that a colleague died yesterday. Really sad situation. Otherwise, not bad thanks.
[01:05] <kgoetz> wow, that must be a shock :|
[01:05] <matthewrevell> Yeah, was a bit :(
[01:05] <matthewrevell> Anyway, pushing off for lucnh, catch you later.
[01:06] <kgoetz> later mate
[01:24] <digitalmouse> take care
[01:24] <digitalmouse> whoops- matthew already 'pushed off'
[01:24] <digitalmouse> oh well
[02:10] <Ro1> hi
[02:11] <adamant1988> hello all
[02:16] <KenSentMe> hi
[02:17] <adamant1988> what's new?
[02:18] <KenSentMe> dunno, haven' been here often lately
[02:19] <adamant1988> ah...
[02:19] <adamant1988> I have, hasn't done me much good.
[02:19] <adamant1988> i'm still clueless
[02:21] <adamant1988> I just installed kubuntu from synaptic... I'm waiting for it to break...
[02:23] <KenSentMe> Clueless about what?
[02:23] <adamant1988> The marketing team... so far the only thing I've been asked to do is a logo, and I suck with inkscape so I haven't been able to do that.
[02:27] <KenSentMe> Well, if you the design of the logo is not working, then that's no problem. It's only voluntary, so you do what you can
[02:28] <adamant1988> yeah, I'm just dissapointed because I was really good with illustrator and photoshop, but inkscape... not so much.
[02:28] <kgoetz> adamant1988: /me lols ;)
[02:28] <KenSentMe> adamant1988: just keep practicing and you will get there
[02:28] <kgoetz> all graphics people say that
[02:29] <adamant1988> say what?
[02:29] <kgoetz> "I was really good with illustrator and photoshop, but inkscape..."
[02:29] <adamant1988> so it's not just me then.
[02:30] <matthewrevell> Hey adamant1988  - what's the logo you're working on?
[02:30] <kgoetz> hehe. absolutely not - i know at least half a dozen peopl off the top of my head
[02:31] <adamant1988> I was told to make a logo for the marketing team using the ubuntu logo, and an africa facing globe. No text.
[02:31] <adamant1988> The "idea" was to center the glove in the ubuntu logo, and use gradients to make everything appear as though it were in a glass ball.
[02:32] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: Cool. I'm relatively new to the team, so I've probably missed the discussion about that. Where did it come from?
[02:32] <kgoetz> we would have to get it okd by canonical (using the ubuntu logo)
[02:32] <adamant1988> Unfortunately, inkscape disagreed with my use of gradients, and then refused to save properly.
[02:33] <kgoetz> adamant1988: ping lucychili (shes in #technest), and have a chat with her, she shares your pain ;)
[02:33] <kgoetz> she might be able to help with $stuff
[02:33] <kgoetz> bbs
[02:33] <adamant1988> k
[02:34] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: So where did the momentum for the logo come from?
[02:34] <adamant1988> idk, I wasn't around for a discussion
[02:34] <adamant1988> nixternal said he needed a logo and asked me to make it.
[02:35] <matthewrevell> Oh right. Was that recently? Everything's been changing lately.
[02:35] <adamant1988> yeah, I just joined very recently
[02:35] <adamant1988> although since last night I've been fighting with my computer
[02:36] <adamant1988> so I haven't put anymore work into it
[02:36] <kgoetz> it was discussed a few days to aweek ago
[02:37] <matthewrevell> kgoetz: On the ML?
[02:38] <kgoetz> in here
[02:38] <kgoetz> it was actualy mroe nixternal saying 'i want a log' then a discusion ;)
[02:38] <adamant1988> he doesn't fully understand the different kinds of image types...
[02:39] <adamant1988> he wanted me to make a scalable animated logo with a spinning globe at first...
[02:39] <matthewrevell> :) Personally, I think we're better off using the mailing list to discuss that sort of thing, as everyone then gets a chance to get involved.
[02:39] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: Woah
[02:39] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: Spinning globe?
[02:39] <adamant1988> yes...
[02:39] <matthewrevell> nixternal: Are you from the 1980s? :-p
[02:40] <adamant1988> he still wants one, he just doesn't expect it to be scalable now.
[02:41] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: Why don't you make your first post to the mailing list by introducing the idea of a logo? We can then have a chat about how we want to be seen, what we want the logo to communicate.
[02:41] <matthewrevell> I think it's great for people to put ideas forward, but it seems a bit of a waste of effort to come up with a logo before it's been discussed on the ML.
[02:41] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: Ah, don't worry, it's really easy.
[02:41] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: I'll help you.
[02:41] <digitalmouse> have you seen my rough logo idea for the ubuntu magazine?  you are welcome to expand/rip/mod that to you hearts content :-)
[02:42] <kgoetz> adamant1988: dont top post or use html email and your set :)
[02:42] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: I'm writing a guide at the moment, on the wiki.
[02:42] <matthewrevell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/MailingListIntro
[02:42] <matthewrevell> Haven't had time to finish it tho' :(
[02:42] <adamant1988> ok what's top post?
[02:43] <adamant1988> tell me that much and I'm set.
[02:43] <digitalmouse> http://digitalbyond.net/~ubuntumag/files/chameleon_logo.gif if you want to use that (or it's concept)... it's very rough - about 5 minutes of work really... I just have not had time to refine it
[02:43] <kgoetz> adamant1988: its where you reply to an email above teh text your replying to
[02:43] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: When you relpy to a message, quote only the relevant bits and pop your reply under the bit you're replying to.
[02:43] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: Top posting is where you quote the whole lot beneath your reply.
[02:43] <adamant1988> like a quote in the forums.
[02:44] <adamant1988> digitalmouse don't you think it should be an svg?
[02:44] <matthewrevell> digitalmouse: Nice idea, combining the logos, bit wide though, I'd say.
[02:44] <digitalmouse> absolutely.. actually I have it locally as that, just not exported
[02:44] <digitalmouse> pang was a quick-n-dirty
[02:44] <digitalmouse> png*
[02:44] <adamant1988> hrmmmm...
[02:45] <adamant1988> I have an idea.... how would you guys feel about a 'die'
[02:45] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: ?
[02:45] <digitalmouse> as in a role-playing style of die (dice) ?
[02:45] <digitalmouse> 20-sided, etc. ?
[02:45] <adamant1988> yes, as in a die (dice) but more like 6 sides
[02:45] <digitalmouse> or in our case a 4 or 6
[02:45] <adamant1988> there would be four visible sides
[02:46] <adamant1988> each side would have an ubuntu distro logo on it.
[02:46] <digitalmouse> how many variants are we up to now 6?  (ub, kub, edub, xub, nub, ?)
[02:46] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: What's the reasoning behind a dice then?
[02:46] <kgoetz> digitalmouse: and an unofical ebuntu (e17)
[02:46] <kgoetz> iirc
[02:46] <digitalmouse> ah
[02:47] <adamant1988> it could incorperate all of the buntus that are official.  Not singular to Ubuntu...
[02:47] <adamant1988> I use kubuntu now (I feel like a traitor) but I still use kubuntu...
[02:47] <kgoetz> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/derivatives
[02:47] <digitalmouse> ?
[02:48] <matthewrevell> brb
[02:48] <kgoetz> k
[02:48] <adamant1988> haha, I'm just saying I think using more that one ubuntu distro shows that we're marketing the whole family.  Unless we're not...
[02:48] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: I dunno, are we?
[02:49] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: I assume we are
[02:49] <adamant1988> that's what I would assume too
[02:49] <digitalmouse> heh, maybe a future project is to distribute all the ubuntu variants on a high-density DVD :-p
[02:49] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: Again, that's something we need to thrash out on the mailing list.
[02:49] <kgoetz> i use the word u
[02:49] <kgoetz> "ubuntu" to refer to The Real Thing and all the ripoffs :)
[02:49] <matthewrevell> :)
[02:50] <kgoetz> :)
[02:50] <adamant1988> yeah... I need to get some support for my kde install I preformed...
[02:50] <adamant1988> I wish gnome were more reliable...
[02:50] <matthewrevell> Dependig on we're talking to, it may be simpler to say Ubuntu, than confuse things.
[02:50] <adamant1988> but when I get the tires kicked in I can start on projects again
[02:50] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: Gnome's stable for me.
[02:51] <adamant1988> gnome didn't display like half of my programs, and it caused a very pretty hard-lock  lastnight.
[02:51] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: If you need any help with the mailing list,let me know.
[02:51] <adamant1988> how should I title my post?
[02:51] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: We definitely need to get logo discussion etc onto it.
[02:51] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: Logo for Ubuntu Marketing Team ?
[02:51] <matthewrevell> :)
[02:52] <adamant1988> oh so none of that Volume 9, akdjfkajsdafjl 10 stuff?
[02:52] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: Lordy no :)
[02:52] <adamant1988> GOOD
[02:53] <adamant1988> I'll make a post then
[02:53] <matthewrevell> Cool.
[02:53] <adamant1988> I wonder if making an olympic chain out of the ubuntu logos would be a bad thing??
[02:53] <matthewrevell> Not everoyne can access IRC or is in the channel when things are discussed.
[02:54] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: Nice idea :) Not sure it would scale, though, and it might look a bit derivative.
[02:55] <adamant1988> I could make it scale just fine.
[02:55] <kgoetz> adamant1988: canonical policy is to not allow rotating the logo if thats an issue
[02:55] <mindspin> the olympic chain is kinda copyrighted.. so be careful
[02:55] <adamant1988> or we could link them in some fashion... idk... I'm posting... lol.
[02:57] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: Could you make it so that the logos were recognisable when the whole logo got quite small? I'm not talking about it pixelating but more that the individual logos would be too small to see what they were, possibly, at small size
[02:58] <adamant1988> how small are we talking?
[02:58] <adamant1988> I design at 64x64 usually
[02:58] <kgoetz> adamant1988: you should make it 'full sized' vector and scale it down
[03:00] <adamant1988> I usually work at the opposite... I work for the 'lowest common denominator' which is 9/10 that some logo is going to be made itsy bitsy for a website.
[03:01] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: As kgoetz says, it'd need to be technically vector but the point is that as a logo, in doing its job, it needs to be recognisable when it's big or small. Too much detail and it might just look like some rings.
[03:01] <matthewrevell> That's not say I'm against the idea of linking them
[03:02] <matthewrevell> I just wonder if for simplicity, any logo should be based on the main Ubuntu one.
[03:02] <adamant1988> idk... that policy makes me feel like a traitor using kubuntu.. I don't like it.
[03:03] <adamant1988> I actually wish Kubuntu wasn't a seperate version of ubuntu
[03:03] <kgoetz> :%s/wasnt a/didnt act like a
[03:03] <adamant1988> ???
[03:13] <kgoetz> lol
[03:15] <adamant1988> lol
[05:23] <jenda> aloha
[05:24] <kgoetz> gday
[05:26] <matthewrevell> hey
[05:27] <matthewrevell> jenda: I thought you were away for a few more days. Welcome back!
[05:27] <jenda> matthewrevell: back for a day ;)
[05:27] <matthewrevell> Ah
[05:27] <kgoetz> you went away?
[05:27] <jenda> over 200 mails..
[05:27] <matthewrevell> I see
[05:27] <jenda> and kgoetz didn't even notice...
[05:27] <kgoetz> jenda: only 200 :P
[05:28] <jenda> kgoetz: successful spam filtering ;)
[05:28] <jenda> matthewrevell: did you handle stanz?
[05:28] <kgoetz> lol jenda
[05:28] <matthewrevell> jenda: I don't remember having a need to handle stanz. Erm, I'm confused.
[05:29] <jenda> got him
[05:29] <jenda> he posted on the mailing list, not very happy about being deactivated.
[05:29] <jenda> I'm activating him now.
[05:30] <matthewrevell> Ah right, I see :)
[05:31] <matthewrevell> Sorry, thought he'd be re-activated already, for some reason.
[05:39] <jenda> :) np
[05:40] <jenda> ah, now the MT mailing list... will be interesting, I presume?
[05:41] <matthewrevell> :) There's a bit of discussion.
[05:41] <matthewrevell> Unfortunately, a weekend with a dead laptop and too many other things to do meant that I haven't been able to do all I hoped.
[05:42] <matthewrevell> bug #43722
[05:42] <matthewrevell> sorry, wrong window
[05:42] <kgoetz> heh
[05:49] <jenda> anyone seen coopster?
[05:58] <jenda> bbl
[06:00] <matthewrevell> jenda: No, sorry.
[06:17] <nixternal> moins to all
[06:26] <nixternal> anyone having issues sending with gmail accounts?
[06:46] <adamant1988> hello all.
[06:46] <KenSentMe> hi
[06:47] <adamant1988> nixternal, that is the LAST time I let you talk me into anything.
[06:47] <adamant1988> I spent all morning removing and repairing things that Kubuntu-desktop broke =\
[06:57] <jenda> hello nixternal, KenSentMe
[06:57] <jenda> ... gnomefreak
[06:57] <gnomefreak> jenda:
[06:57] <jenda> and welcome to the team, adamant1988 ;)
[06:58] <gnomefreak> ty ;)
[06:58] <gnomefreak> i have an interview for a marketing job (i have to call and set it up) i found that ironic as hell
[06:59] <jenda> cool ;)
[06:59] <jenda> I hope it ain't the job for Canonical, bucause I'd strangle you in envy.
[06:59] <gnomefreak> lol
[07:00] <gnomefreak> no some sports company
[07:00] <adamant1988> thanks jenda :)
[07:01] <adamant1988> Jenda, I have an idea for the logo and this is strictly an idea because I'm not sure what's within the realm of legality concerning the Ubuntu logo.
[07:02] <jenda> adamant1988: anything is if the big C approves.
[07:02] <jenda> but, sure, shoot ;)
[07:02] <gnomefreak> im not real sure keeping ubuntu and edubuntu the same (but im still thinking on them)
[07:02] <adamant1988> What I was thinking was that we could take a stock ubuntu logo, and 'map' a map onto it.
[07:03] <gnomefreak> define map
[07:03] <adamant1988> It would look like an ubuntu logo cut out of a vector based map.  map as in globe.
[07:03] <adamant1988> but by mapping I mean overlaying. As in any part that isn't covering the logo isn't visible.
[07:05] <adamant1988>  it would be scalable, because the stock map would be vector to start with.  if neccessary we could frankenstein the edubuntu, kubuntu, and ubuntu logos together
[07:05] <adamant1988> and with edubuntu we could just use the part that shows the student holding up their hand.
[07:05] <Burgwork> uhh, we really don't need a logo
[07:06] <Burgwork> talking about a logo distracts us from more important things, like actually marketing
[07:06] <adamant1988> I know, but I was asked to make one
[07:07] <gnomefreak> Burgwork: in a sense i agree but to beable to label something (say fliers/newspapers/whatever it may be) witha  logo would be nice
[07:07] <adamant1988> A logo would be important if we needed people to remember us as an organization.
[07:08] <adamant1988> But, and this is just my opinion, our goal is to market Ubuntu, not the marketing team.
[07:08] <Burgwork> gnomefreak, yep, that logo would be the Ubuntu one
[07:08] <Burgwork> we already have one
[07:09] <Burgwork> the organization people should be remembering in Ubuntu, not the Ubuntu marketing team
[07:09] <adamant1988> precisely Burgwork :)
[07:12] <adamant1988> btw, I haven't been keeping up too much with the mailing list because I haven't learned how to reply and such and I don't seem to actually receive any emails other than the digests.
[07:12] <adamant1988> but have we decided who our target market(s) are going to be?
[07:13] <Burgwork> everybody
[07:14] <Burgwork> people should work on a segment that interests them
[07:14] <Burgwork> ie: home users, schools, libraries, corporatinos
[07:14] <adamant1988> IMO the home users are the greatest challenge.
[07:15] <adamant1988> there's plenty to offer school, and there's plenty to offer big business..
[07:16] <adamant1988> But for the average home user who's main concern is features, Ubuntu is a step down from windows...
[07:16] <Burgwork> stop thinking like that
[07:17] <nixternal> an average home user just uses email and internet
[07:17] <Burgwork> exactly
[07:17] <adamant1988> and watches stupid videos on youtube
[07:17] <Burgwork> for the corporate stuff, we need case studies and things like that
[07:17] <nixternal> Ubuntu would never be a step down in that instance..but a step up
[07:17] <nixternal> no viruses, no spyware, and no malware
[07:17] <Burgwork> for the home user, we need fancy brochures
[07:18] <nixternal> Ubuntu might be an issue for the avid gamer
[07:18] <jenda> Burgwork: hello
[07:18] <adamant1988> In that respect yeah.  But I think we should somehow 'market' easyubuntu as well... home users are going to notice when their flash games stop working...
[07:18] <adamant1988> or automatix or w/e
[07:18] <jenda> Please don't mention automatix while I'm here )
[07:19] <adamant1988> soft spot huh?
[07:19] <jenda> You'll have a whole week to talk about it starting two days from now :)
[07:19] <jenda> But not now ;)
[07:19] <jenda> Yes indeed, very soft.
[07:19] <adamant1988> ok, I'll just use easyubuntu as a coverall then.
[07:19] <Burgwork> hey jenda, how are you
[07:19] <jenda> ;)
[07:19] <jenda> Burgwork: a little rushed
[07:20] <Burgwork> adamant1988, as the official marketing team, we should avoid talkinga bout non-official solutions
[07:20] <jenda> Burgwork: hope you don't mind anything that happened around
[07:20] <Burgwork> no, I have just got back in the office, been on the road for almost three weeks
[07:20] <adamant1988> yeah...
[07:20] <adamant1988> I just see it as a potential problem....
[07:21] <Burgwork> ignore it
[07:21] <Burgwork> that is what the documentation is for
[07:21] <Burgwork> marketing is talking about what is great, not what sucks
[07:21] <jenda> BTW:
[07:22] <Burgwork> jenda, have you seen the spec about making easyubuntu/automatix/etc. obsolete?
[07:22] <jenda> Burgwork: prolly not...?
[07:22] <adamant1988> marketing is the act of persuasion.  You want people to be 100% convinced that they're making the 'right choice' they're going to feel a little side-swiped if all of the sudden they can't listen to their music collection or play that rediculous flash game they're in love with.
[07:23] <Burgwork> nope
[07:23] <Burgwork> they will not be
[07:23] <Burgwork> marketing about getting their attention
[07:23] <Burgwork> sales is about persuasion
[07:23] <jenda> +1
[07:23] <adamant1988> My bad, I confuse the two sometimes
[07:24] <Burgwork> they are very similar
[07:24] <jenda> It's easy to confuse that - thanks for the good wording, Burgwork
[07:24] <Burgwork> in the open source world, we don't have a sales teams
[07:24] <adamant1988> I was on the 'marketing team' for a few webites that relied on ad-revenue... so basically marketing and sales were one in the same for me =\
[07:24] <Burgwork> hence why we need two kinds of marketing (grabbing stuff and selling stuff)
[07:25] <Burgwork> the grabbing stuff needs to be short and sweet
[07:25] <Burgwork> think apple ad
[07:25] <Burgwork> the selling stuff is primarily our website, but is also things like case studies and more indepth feature demos
[07:25] <adamant1988> so Burgwork what is this spec about easyubuntu and all being absolete?
[07:25] <adamant1988> erm
[07:26] <adamant1988> obsolete...
[07:26] <jenda> Burgwork: linky?
[07:26] <Burgwork> making them obsolete by figuring out why people use them and working it in to Ubuntu itself
[07:26] <adamant1988> so Ubuntu would actually include the script? I'm confused.
[07:27] <Burgwork> just a sec
[07:27] <Burgwork> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/common-customizations
[07:28] <adamant1988> I was under the impression that there was no way ubuntu could include those products and packages.
[07:28] <Burgwork> certain things we can make easier
[07:32] <adamant1988> oh they're adding a commericial repo?
[07:32] <adamant1988> commercial... can't type today
[07:34] <nixternal> Burgwork: is it alright if I edit the wiki page that spec links to, as there is "foul language" used int he one of the links
[07:34] <nixternal> can i edit it, so you don't see the link name?
[07:34] <adamant1988> yeah, I saw that too
[07:36] <Burgwork> nixternal, what sort of foul language?
[07:36] <nixternal> f-birdflu.com
[07:36] <nixternal> it is a link down 1/4 the page
[07:37] <Burgwork> no don't remove it
[07:37] <Burgwork> we are not prudes
[07:37] <nixternal> ok
[07:38] <nixternal> wasn't going to remove it, was just going to [http://link HERE]  it
[07:38] <adamant1988> When is the Ubuntu Book due to be finished?
[07:38] <Burgwork> that doesn't hide it
[07:38] <Burgwork> adamant1988, the official one?
[07:38] <Burgwork> already done, should be at the printers already
[07:38] <adamant1988> yes
[07:39] <adamant1988> cool I'm looking to buy a copy
[07:39] <adamant1988> Does Canonical offer support for the home user if they want it?
[07:39] <Burgwork> yep, at 150/yr
[07:39] <Burgwork> better to go with one of the regional partners
[07:40] <adamant1988> I'd say.
[07:40] <nixternal> http://www.ubuntu.com/support
[07:40] <nixternal> hehe ya
[07:40] <Burgwork> 150/yr for a support for a desktop is a actually really quite cheap, in the enterprise world
[07:41] <adamant1988> I like most of the changes they're making to make automatix and all obsolete.
[07:41] <adamant1988> But I'm curious... If canonical ever started releasing boxed sets with support packages for home users (at a price) would they be able to at least give the option of commercial dvd playback?
[07:42] <Burgwork> not likely to the latter, due to our philosophy
[07:42] <Burgwork> but a local partner could do it, as long as they call it something else
[07:43] <adamant1988> I know that Linspire has managed to work around the dvd issue.
[07:43] <adamant1988> infact that's the only distro I know of that legally supports dvd playback.
[07:43] <Burgwork> they pay for a license
[07:43] <adamant1988> wait... There's talk of ubuntu getting CNR isn't there?
[07:44] <Burgwork> yes, but I think it has stalled
[07:44] <Burgwork> more likely it would be part of g-a-i
[07:44] <adamant1988> g-a-i?
[07:45] <adamant1988> Ubuntu could very well be the perfect home distro if CNR comes as an option in the future...
[07:45] <Burgwork> gnome app install
[07:45] <Burgwork> Add/Remove
[07:45] <Burgwork> adamant1988, Add/Remove is basically the same thing
[07:46] <adamant1988> Yeah but if the CNR can house software that you buy, why not do like linspire and have a package that you pay for to get dvd support?
[07:46] <Burgwork> they are looking to add something similar to gai
[07:47] <Burgwork> the difference is that gai is all gpl
[07:47] <adamant1988> which is why I said CNR
[07:47] <adamant1988> i'd be willing to trade a few dollars for dvd functionality legally.
[07:48] <adamant1988> I'm just noting that that solves a lot of the problems that the home user *could* have
[07:48] <adamant1988> and legally
[07:53] <adamant1988> anywho...
[07:54] <adamant1988> I'll help with whatever marketing I can.. just tell me where you need me
[08:13] <jenda> KenSentMe: ping
[08:14] <jenda> adamant1988: have a look at the wiki and subscribe to the mailing list - you're welcome aboard. If you can do webdesign, I'm looknig for the best Spreadubuntu design available :)
[08:15] <adamant1988> I can do webdesign to the extent that I know a bit about effective layouts... but I can't do the coding =\
[08:17] <jenda> Hmm... neither can I ;)
[08:17] <adamant1988> lol
[08:35] <jenda> aloha nickm1
[08:49] <jenda> hello gaz00
[08:51] <gaz00> Hi jenda!
[08:51] <gaz00> How's it going?
[08:53] <jenda> busy busy ;)
[08:55] <gaz00> that's good, isn't it?
[08:55] <gaz00> being bored means that you're not doing anything useful
[09:04] <jenda> gaz00: true ;)
[09:07] <KenSentMe> jenda: pong
[09:07] <jenda> now what did I want, Ken... :)
[09:08] <KenSentMe> It has been an hour ago
[09:08] <jenda> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMagazine
[09:08] <jenda> there
[09:08] <jenda> your response doesn't make sense to me...?
[09:09] <KenSentMe> I thought you wanted to use the mag to get people into to community and not primarily just get them to use ubuntu
[09:10] <KenSentMe> Maybe i misread your comment
[09:10] <jenda> perhaps :)
[09:18] <jenda> aloha mdke, didn't know you hang out in here :)
[09:18] <jenda> (oi, what's with the cloak?)
[09:22] <mdke> jenda: I just began
[09:24] <jenda> cool ;)
[09:24] <gnomefreak> ok as confusing as my ML reply was it was said (i hope you understand it) :(
[09:24] <jenda> gnomefreak?
[09:24] <gnomefreak> about the contact point
[09:25] <gnomefreak> just pretty much the point of contact not being above anyone in the sense of a chain of command
[09:26] <jenda> gnomefreak: of course
[09:26] <jenda> matthewrevell promised to raise a thread about team leadership, but it didn't happen.
[09:27] <jenda> At the meeting, I proposed that we don't need a leader, and I was selected as the contact.
[09:27] <jenda> and it was agreed that we will raise the leadership issue on the ML
[09:28] <gnomefreak> it looked like rich (forgets lastname) had said a good idea to have a chain of command. and i think it should remaina  group effort (example CC) they vote not that mark has final say
[09:28] <jenda> OMG: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMagazine needs cleanup
[09:29] <jenda> of course...
[09:29] <jenda> ATM, we have project leaders...
[10:10] <nixternal> gnomefreak: johnson is the last name, or just nixternal ;)
[10:11] <gnomefreak> oh sorry hi
[10:11] <nixternal> i like the CC idea !!!
[10:11] <nixternal> hehe
[10:11] <gnomefreak> nixternal: did you try it on dapper?
[10:12] <nixternal> nope..doin' it on edgy now
[10:12] <nixternal> i need to build a dapper chroot
[10:13] <gnomefreak> nixternal: let me know if it works in edgy
[10:13] <nixternal> will do
[10:18] <gnomefreak> jenda: im thinking we have 3-4 ubuntu memebers in the group atm but i havent counted too hard either
[10:18] <gnomefreak> change that
[10:18] <gnomefreak> maybe 6
[10:19] <jenda> gnomefreak: it'll be more, but it's irrelevant. that would rule matt out while allowing people who don't participate to vote.
[10:20] <gnomefreak> about the free web hosting would we rather have maybe a ubuntu.com domain?
[10:20] <Burgwork> gnomefreak, what you need hosted?
[10:20] <gnomefreak> matts gonna be extreamly busy soon if not already
[10:21] <gnomefreak> Burgwork: jenda iirc asked we should get a free web host i guess he meant for the groups pages
[10:21] <gnomefreak> i just closed it out :(
[10:21] <Burgwork> for the marketing people stuff?
[10:21] <gnomefreak> yes
[10:21] <jenda> Burgwork: yep
[10:21] <Burgwork> the wiki and the stuff we write can go into docteam svn
[10:21] <Burgwork> or the onto the website itself
[10:21] <jenda> I was just going to wirte to the list for a volunteer host
[10:22] <gnomefreak> like freewebs or freeservers but its gonna hve an unofficial name in the address and im thinking we would rather be official
[10:22] <jenda> Burgwork: so all stuff I need hosted I can throw at you?
[10:22] <Burgwork> wiki for collaboration and stuff we are writing for the website, website for stuff we showcase
[10:22] <Burgwork> what sort of stuff are we talking about?
[10:22] <Burgwork> file or content?
[10:22] <gnomefreak> im sure both
[10:22] <gnomefreak> jendas idea
[10:23] <jenda> The wiki is not very good for this purpose, IMO
[10:23] <Burgwork> nor is some offsite resource
[10:23] <gnomefreak> illa gree with it but rahter have it some sort of official
[10:23] <Burgwork> the docteams svn repo is a good place
[10:23] <jenda> Yes it is.
[10:23] <Burgwork> or we can use bzr
[10:23] <jenda> svn good for me
[10:24] <jenda> would that be doc.ubuntu.com?
[10:24] <Burgwork> in progress stuff can be built there
[10:24] <gnomefreak> ok goona have to look this up later too many things thrown at me like svn and bzr (im hoping you dont mean bazzar as in the package uploader)
[10:24] <jenda> /something/somewhere/somewhat...
[10:24] <Burgwork> finished stuff is going to help.u.c but we can get our own subdomain and build to that
[10:25] <jenda> You mean marketing.ubuntu.com/something? that would be great
[10:25] <gnomefreak> yes
[10:25] <gnomefreak> jenda: but how?
[10:25] <Burgwork> better not marketing, maybe marketingteam.ubuntu.com
[10:25] <jenda> Ok
[10:25] <jenda> rather long
[10:25] <jenda> but OK
[10:25] <jenda> why not marketing.ubuntu.com?
[10:25] <jenda> or...
[10:26] <gnomefreak> ok given we are official team but do you think CC will go for that?
[10:26] <Burgwork> because it is not marketing
[10:26] <Burgwork> is the marketing in progress stuff
[10:26] <jenda> how about the slightly less official spread.ubuntu.com?
[10:26] <Burgwork> that works
[10:26] <gnomefreak> +1
[10:26] <Burgwork> finished stuff should be on ubuntu.com somewhere, to download
[10:27] <jenda> SU being the MT's main project, while all of it's projects ultimately aim to spread.ubnutu
[10:27] <jenda> finished DIY stuff could go to diy.ubuntu.com
[10:27] <gnomefreak> what is SU
[10:27] <jenda> Spreadubnutu
[10:27] <gnomefreak> oh should have thought that
[10:27] <Burgwork> we should raise the subdomian issue on the mailing list
[10:27] <gnomefreak> agreed
[10:27] <Burgwork> for each subdomain, it needs a clear reason for existing
[10:27] <Burgwork> ie: I think we shoudl have the following for the following reasons
[10:27] <jenda> Burgwork: I'll do that
[10:28] <jenda> was just gonna ask for hosting, so I'll just change it a bit ;)
[10:28] <gnomefreak> i think it would be a good idea to know what sub-teams (projects) going atm for that
[10:28] <Burgwork> currently the artteam is in flux
[10:28] <jenda> gnomefreak: ?
[10:28] <Burgwork> docteam has three currently
[10:28] <Burgwork> docteam.ubuntu.com is our svn repo
[10:28] <jenda> MT has 3 as well
[10:28] <Burgwork> doc.ubuntu.com is our in progress docs
[10:28] <jenda> (not subds, porjects)
[10:28] <Burgwork> help.ubuntu.com is for finished docs and the help wiki
[10:28] <gnomefreak> jenda: you mentioned like Su= you mag = sue
[10:29] <gnomefreak> are those projects?
[10:29] <jenda> what???
[10:29] <jenda> Spreadubuntu, ubuntu magazine, media relations project
[10:29] <jenda> those are the three
[10:29] <gnomefreak> yes
[10:29] <gnomefreak> thats it?
[10:29] <jenda> have a look at the wiki
[10:29] <jenda> yep
[10:29] <gnomefreak> ok
[10:29] <jenda> no more, no less than that,
[10:30] <jenda> in that order of priority and completion.
[10:30] <gnomefreak> im not sure we want the name spread.ubuntu.com than would we
[10:31] <gnomefreak> cause im htinking have pages for each project
[10:31] <jenda> not really
[10:31] <jenda> each project aims to spreadubuntu
[10:31] <jenda> *spread ubuntu
[10:31] <jenda> in some way or other
[10:31] <gnomefreak> true
[10:31] <jenda> anyway, we can discuss that on the list.
[10:32] <jenda> Spreadubuntu will be the first project of the MT to get anywhere, most probably, so it will be a showcase of the team.
[10:32] <jenda> marketingteam.ubuntu.com is too long to be elegant.
[10:32] <gnomefreak> yeah
[10:32] <jenda> marketing.ubuntu.com is... Burgwork, why again? :)
[10:32] <jenda> mt.ubuntu.com is not intuitive.
[10:33] <jenda> looks like Mt. Ubuntu :)
[10:33] <gnomefreak> lol mountain ubuntu
[10:34] <jenda> Burgwork: so, who did you say will be doing the hosting?
[10:34] <Burgwork> because it sounds like a place people would go to for finished projects
[10:34] <jenda> Oh OK
[10:34] <jenda> yes, makes sense.
[10:34] <Burgwork> any ubuntu.com subdomains can be hosted by canonical
[10:34] <Burgwork> note the doc team has the issue with doc.ubuntu.com, but docteam is already taken by our svn server
[10:34] <gnomefreak> need CC ok though right?
[10:34] <jenda> So... we need the CC's approval?
[10:34] <Burgwork> pretty much, I think
[10:35] <jenda> And do we need to be an official team?
[10:35] <gnomefreak> ok lets get all set first and we will put it on CC agenda
[10:35] <gnomefreak> were not?
[10:35] <jenda> gnomefreak: just a sec ;)
[10:35] <gnomefreak> i think we need to be first
[10:36] <gnomefreak> iirc team meets in a CC meeting and we tell them what our plans are and they yay or nay us but i think we need to be official before bringing hosting to them
[10:36] <Burgwork> if you have somethign for the CC, make certain you have something very specific and can present the entire idea
[10:36] <Burgwork> the doc team has never officially been "blessed"
[10:36] <Burgwork> we just sort of came into existence
[10:36] <gnomefreak> they havent?
[10:36] <gnomefreak> hm
[10:37] <Burgwork> I would rather wait until we have something specific, like a need for a subdomain
[10:38] <gnomefreak> do we have member so the doc team on MT?
[10:38] <gnomefreak> s/member/members
[10:39] <jenda> Burgwork: the doc team isn't official, yet has subdomains?
[10:39] <jenda> gnomefreak: many
[10:39] <Burgwork> jenda, afaik, it has never been blessed
[10:39] <Burgwork> I could be incorrect
[10:40] <gnomefreak> and iirc those are only ubuntu-au or ubutu-de
[10:40] <jenda> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Teams
[10:41] <jenda> gnomefreak: LoCoteams check
[10:41] <gnomefreak> i think we should go ahead and do it whats the worst that can happen we played byu thte rules?
[10:41] <jenda> they do need that
[10:41] <gnomefreak> by
[10:41] <gnomefreak> the
[10:41] <Burgwork> basically, teams are quite informal
[10:41] <jenda> I can't find anything about official teams
[10:41] <Burgwork> why bother the CC if we are not asking for anything?
[10:41] <gnomefreak> me neither
[10:42] <gnomefreak> we will be needed thier support sooner or later no?>
[10:42] <jenda> Burgwork: we need hosting
[10:42] <jenda> I was going to fish for volunteers
[10:42] <jenda> You suggested the subdomains...
[10:42] <Burgwork> what do we need hosting for?
[10:42] <jenda> what do I need to do for spread.ubnutu.com, and for C to host it there?
[10:42] <jenda> Burgwork: primarily Spreadubuntu.
[10:43] <jenda> hello ompaul
[10:43] <gnomefreak> hello ompaul
[10:43] <gnomefreak> brb doing my rounds
[10:43] <jenda> Burgwork: but I'm sure the magazine will need hosting as well.
[10:43] <ompaul> re
[10:43] <Burgwork> does the magazine have anything to be hosted?
[10:43] <jenda> Burgwork: and subsequently all other projects as they emerge.
[10:43] <jenda> Burgwork: not yet.
[10:44] <Burgwork> lets cross those bridges when we get to them
[10:44] <jenda> Burgwork: ATM, I need to secure a spot to be able to host SU stuff
[10:44] <Burgwork> then ask the CC for that specificallly
[10:44] <Burgwork> build a full case, etc.
[10:44] <gnomefreak> ok lets bring it up on ML see what everyones thoughts are or (meeting)
[10:44] <jenda> gnomefreak: I would, if I could.
[10:45] <jenda> Let me repeat the question...
[10:45] <jenda> what do I need to do for spread.ubnutu.com, and for C to host it there?
[10:45] <jenda> Or do I go back to writing to ask for volunteers on the ML.
[10:45] <Burgwork> some initial content ideas and a general plan for who and what goes there
[10:45] <gnomefreak> ompaul: do you happen to knwo the answer for that :(
[10:45] <Burgwork> maybe create a wiki page/spec talkinga bout it
[10:45] <Burgwork> actually, do that
[10:45] <jenda> Burgwork: besides that?
[10:46] <jenda> Asking the CC, right?
[10:46] <jenda> Is there any page describing that?
[10:46] <Burgwork> yep, create the spec, get some people to pick it apart and then take it tot he CC
[10:46] <gnomefreak> i think whats hes saying is have a wiki to help our case
[10:46] <Burgwork> create a spec, exactly like everything else
[10:46] <gnomefreak> but we need to make sure people agree to thins
[10:46] <gnomefreak> this
[10:47] <Burgwork> ah, just do
[10:47] <Burgwork> as the creator, you get to frame the debate
[10:47] <jenda> alright, back to writing to the list.
[10:47] <Burgwork> rather than debating whether or not it should exist, you can frame it as to content, within your frames
[10:47] <gnomefreak> ut oh
[10:47] <gnomefreak> im scared :(
[10:47] <gnomefreak> brb
[10:48] <gnomefreak> my LP membership changed
[10:48] <ompaul> from ?
[10:48] <gnomefreak> idk yet
[10:48] <gnomefreak> ;)
[10:48] <gnomefreak> -bugs
[10:49] <gnomefreak> brb smoke
[10:49] <ompaul> looks good from here :-)
[10:49] <jenda> Burgwork: I know what SU is and what it needs. I'm looking for hosting ATM, that's all there is to it. I'll try to get SU documented as best I can, but ATM, it needs graphics proposals, and for us to be able to decide which is best, we need to get them hosted.
[10:50] <Burgwork> ok, cool
[10:50] <Burgwork> by creating a spec, you can encourage people to collaborate on specific issues, rather than us just talk about it some more
[10:50] <jenda> BTW, should I add the MT to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Teams ?
[10:50] <jenda> Burgwork: I'm very, very busy ATM
[10:50] <jenda> There is a /SpreadUbuntu page, but it's outdated.
[10:51] <Burgwork> if it is your baby, it is not going anywhere until you have a good spec
[10:51] <Burgwork> the CC are not going to ok something without it
[10:51] <Burgwork> the doc team got our wiki move spec ripped apart at least once by the CC
[10:51] <jenda> I'll try to get to it tomorrow. If I can't make it, then it's till the 11th, because I'm off.
[10:51] <ompaul> jenda, phase one - update the page
[10:52] <jenda> ompaul: phase one, get people to work on the graphics. They can do that while I'm not here.
[10:52] <jenda> Phase two, update the page.
[10:52] <jenda> Phase...
[10:52] <ompaul> spread
[10:52] <ompaul> just do it ;-)
[10:52] <jenda> I need the hosting, will write that now.
[10:52] <jenda> CC or no CC
[10:52] <ompaul> if you do it right it will work
[10:52] <jenda> SU needs hosting _now_.
[10:52] <jenda> :)
[10:53] <ompaul> jenda, look, if you have an idea it is great, if you have a plan it is more flesh on the idea, if you have a plan you will have tested some of the components
[10:53] <Burgwork> even if it looks like hoops, writing a full spec will help you get other people excited
[10:53] <ompaul> +1
[10:53] <jenda> Great.
[10:54] <jenda> But I might not have time.
[10:54] <ompaul> you do have time if not today in a week
[10:54] <jenda> I"m only at home for a day and a bit.
[10:54] <gnomefreak> jenda: thats why you have a team to back you ;)
[10:54] <jenda> yes, but by that time, the graphics can be done.
[10:54] <jenda> :)
[10:54] <ompaul> so if you make notes while away you can see where it is at
[10:55] <gnomefreak> lets get a base wiki going and fill it in when we grab time
[10:56] <jenda> /SpreadUbuntu
[10:56] <jenda> Needs to be moved to /MT/SU
[10:59] <gnomefreak> nixternal: wake up lol
[11:00] <nixternal> huh
[11:00] <nixternal> hello
[11:00] <nixternal> umm ;)
[11:15] <jenda> :)
[11:30] <jenda> Burgwork: do you think i should add the MT to "https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Teams"?
[11:36] <Burgwork> jenda, yes
[11:38] <jenda> OK