mhzjmredlinks: esta es tu primera vez en IRC?12:13
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Burgworkhey jsgotangco 01:33
jsgotangcogood morning01:33
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HedgeMagehi :)03:28
bddebianHi HedgeMage03:28
Burgundaviahey HedgeMage03:28
HedgeMagehow are you guys?03:31
jsgotangcopretty good but im in a bit of a crisis deep inside03:37
HedgeMagehow come?03:38
LaserJockhi HedgeMage 03:38
HedgeMagehey LaserJock 03:38
=== HedgeMage reminds anyone who's interested that there's a cookbook meeting at 1900 UTC on Thursday
jsgotangcoHedgeMage: midlife crisis probably03:38
=== HedgeMage cuddles jsgotangco
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ballIs there a list somewhere of ubuntu channels?06:17
Zairechannels are #kubuntu #ubuntu #edubuntu adn #xubuntu not sure of any other though06:18
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bimberiball: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat#head-729211ea4fb3c5b535d3d8a533dbc007c8dbce1406:19
ballbimberi, Zaire: thanks06:19
Zaireno probs 06:19
bimberiyw :)06:19
ballEdubuntu is LTSP-like iirc?06:20
=== Zaire is kinda clueless still, learning more everyday lol
ballZaire: do you have it running?06:21
=== Zaire not edubuntu nopes Im running Kubuntu Daper Drake LTS
ballDo you like Ubuntu so far?06:23
Zaireyeps its the best Ive used so far06:23
ZaireIve used prob about nearly 20 distros now lol06:24
ballZaire: I've not liked most of the ones I've looked at.  I do have an Ubuntu CD to try though.06:24
ballNot #edubuntu though.06:24
ballbimberi: that's a helpful Web page.06:25
ballbimberi: Where should I look for system requirements for the edubuntu X terminal machines?06:26
bimberiball: it is, finding it for you made me notice that it's a bit out of date so i'm editing it :)06:26
bimberiball: good question :)06:27
Zaireis this a good help doc bimberi? http://www.ublug.org/ubuntu/twinview/twinview-howto-breezy.html06:27
bimberiZaire: not sure as i don't use twinview.  I generally try help.ubuntu.com and wiki.ubuntu.com first, then the forums and after that it's google time :)06:28
Zairelol well this time Im gonna make a backup of my xorg and move it to a diff location rather then having 50 diff backups that could be faulty lol06:29
bimberiZaire: hehe.  That page looks good to me in that it doesn't recommend installing things from external sources.06:30
=== HedgeMage peeks in
ballhello Hedgie06:31
HedgeMagehiya :)06:31
Zaireso does that mean I should use the glx driver or the actual from nvidia.com06:31
ballDoes edubuntu use GNOME, KDE or straight X?06:33
HedgeMagegnome by default06:33
HedgeMagebut you can use whatever you want :)06:33
ZaireXfce is decent I like kde the best and in the words of linus torvald don't use gnome kde is the only way to go lol06:34
ballI have KDE on my iBook and don't like it.06:35
Zaireis it an onld KDE or newer one?06:35
ballNo idea.06:35
ballxfce looks tolerable.06:36
ballNot quite as nice as blackbox, but okay otherwise.06:36
Zaireall I used before was gnome but haven't since I ditched redhat 906:36
bimberiHedgeMage: i'm struggling to find edubuntu thin-client hardware requirements - any ideas?06:36
bimberiHedgeMage: hi btw :)06:36
HedgeMagebimberi: hang on it's listed in the cookbook06:36
Zairewell i'll brb gonna change run levels to install my nvidia drivers06:37
HedgeMagebimberi: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters/HardwareRequirements06:37
bimberiball: there you go ^^^^ and thankyou very much HedgeMage :)06:38
HedgeMagenp :)06:39
ballI would print that... if I had a printer that worked.06:39
bimberi!eduhardware is https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters/HardwareRequirements06:41
ubotuI'll remember that06:41
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ballhello root_06:41
bimberi!eduhw is <alias> eduhardware06:41
ubotuI'll remember that06:41
ballFirefox has never seen so many tabs open at once!06:42
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Zairewell that bombed out on me06:43
Zairesaid it couldn't find the system ID or something to install my drivers06:43
ballI might have some machines around that are close to that spec, but the 48 Mb RAM would require some upgrades I think.06:45
ball...might be worthwhile though.06:45
crimsunat 48 MB RAM, you'll be thrashing due to X Window System06:45
ballcrimsun: I hadn't realised the terminals needed that much.  VNC terminals are much lighter ;-)06:46
Zairewhere can I get a list of developer programs and compilers plus required libs for compiling and dev lol06:47
ballI suppose X may be faster though, especially if it's accellerated.06:47
ubotuCompiling software from source? Read the tips at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CompilingSoftware (But remember to search for a pre-built package first!)06:47
Zairecool thx bimberi lol06:47
bimberiZaire: np :)06:48
ballThe spec says 2Mb Video RAM.  Are some cards better than others (e.g. Mach64 for 2D accel?)06:48
Zairedoes auto-apt do what I think it does :)06:49
ballIt parks a car in your apartment.06:50
ballLooking at this spec, a VIA EPIA ME6000 with 128 Mb DIMM sounds perfect.06:51
ball...wouldn't need a hard disk either.  Perhaps 256 Mb would be better?06:51
ballHmm... I'd pretty much have to buy new boxes whether I used edubuntu or just ubuntu on each machine.06:55
ball...edubuntu would save the cost of a few hard disks and might make administration more simple.06:59
ball...but would require a heavyweight server.06:59
ballDoes that sound fair?07:00
Amaranthsounds about right07:00
ballI should price up some gear.07:01
ZaireI couldn't get auto-apt to work said something about there being no packages07:02
ballFor the terminals I just need case+psu, mainboard, RAM, keyboard, mouse, monitor.  Anything else?07:03
Amaranthprocessor :P07:05
Amaranthotherwise i don't think so but i've never build a thin-client07:06
ballThe processor's soldered to the mainboard.07:06
ballFanless too.07:06
ball(well, I could go to 1 GHz with a small fan.07:07
ball...thinking about it though, I think they have a 1.2 GHz fanless, it's just a board that's new to me.07:07
Zaireony 1Ghz lol mines 3.1Ghz lol07:07
ballZaire: I can see 3 GHz for the server, but for the terminals?07:08
ball600 MHz is probably overkill.07:08
Zairegotta say though I love my AMD lol07:08
ballI will need something more heavyweight for the box that will be running the applications.  Just might consider AMD64 for that one.07:09
ball...or at least 2 GHz Pentium 4 Northwood.07:10
ball...or "Core"07:10
ball(the artist formerly known as Pentium III)07:10
Zairethats more or less what mine is lol Sempron 3100+ 64Bit07:10
Zairewith 800 mhzht aswell07:10
AmaranthDual Core 2 Duo Extreme "Woodcrest" CPUs *drool*07:10
ballAMD chips are too thirsty since the Athlon/Duron.07:11
ballK6-3 was the last decent AMD chip07:11
ZaireAMD rocks lol go 2000 Mhz FSB07:11
ballAmaranth: can edubuntu use those?07:11
Amaranthball: Core 1 chips are remade pentium 3, core 2 is using the new core architecture.07:11
Zaireactually K6 was the crappy chip07:11
Amaranthball: I don't see why not.07:11
ball(will it share the load between the two cores?)07:11
Amaranthof course07:11
Amaranthlinux is great at multicore/multiprocessor07:12
ballK6-2+ was okay, K6-3 was okay too.07:12
Amaranthbut that machine would cost more than putting a HD in all your thin-clients :P07:12
ballAthlon = bletch07:12
ballK6 != K6-2+07:12
=== Zaire swore would never buy another intel again Sempron 64 Zaire has runs a cool 10 celcius to 25 celcius
ballAmaranth: which leaves only the admin aspect.07:13
ball(and reliability)07:13
ball25C isn't too bad.  What's the DC rating?07:13
ZaireAMD can take heat way better then intels to07:13
Amaranthiirc two core 2 duo server chips would use a combined total of 90 watts07:14
ZaireI know cause I ran one and it was running at 62 degrees celcius for 5 months lol07:14
ballHmm... 45 W each?07:14
Zairestill works lol07:14
Amaranthball: yeah07:14
ballZaire: better to not waste the energy as heat in the first place though.07:15
Amaranththat's me trying to remember correctly at midnight07:15
ballI've got entire machines that use less than 45W, but for a server that might be ok.07:15
Zairethere is a reason it was running so hot though07:15
Zairethe original mobo it was in fried and kinda half took it with it but it still ran anyway talka bout durability lol07:16
ballZaire: it was inefficient?07:16
=== ball shudders
Zaire^^ previous statement is why it ran hot07:16
Zairebefore top temp and this is in summer was 39 or 40 degrees C07:17
Amaranthball: VIA machines don't count as machines, they're for niche things :P07:17
ballFor edubuntu, do the X terminals run 24-bit, or 32-bit colour?07:17
Zairesrry to ramble on Im a hardcore AMD fan lol07:17
Amaranthball: 32-bit color doesn't really exist, from what i understand07:18
ballAmaranth: Actually I was thinking of one of my other boxes, but I think you're right about the VIA ones.  I use them as LAN workstations.07:18
Amaranthwhen windows says 32-bit it means 24-bit07:18
ballAmaranth: 24-bit plus transparency07:18
ballwhat, 8 alpha bits?07:18
ballDoes edubuntu use/need transparency?07:18
Amaranthball: transparency? "dude, if i turn up the transparency i can see my the wall behind my monitor!" :)07:19
Amaranth(why does a monitor need transparency?) :)07:19
Amaranthi dunno07:19
Amaranthi just know that what windows calls 32-bit is the same as what linux calls 24-bit07:19
ballJust wondered.07:19
ball24-bit is fine by me.  16-bit is better than nowt.07:20
AmaranthI'm just tired.07:20
ball8-bit is okay on greyscale displays ;-)07:20
Zairebrb gonna try driver install again lol07:23
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ballany luck?07:29
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Zairek does anyone know where to get the kernel tree sources?07:30
=== ball doesn't.
=== Zaire is so clueless :(
=== ball is too.
ubotuTo install the Ati/NVidia drivers for your monitor, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BinaryDriverHowto07:33
ballLinux is new and strange and mostly horrid.  Ubuntu has promise though.07:33
Zaireyes yes it does and yes linux can be horrid at times lol07:34
ubotukernel is the core of the Ubuntu Operating System (named 'Linux'). You shouldn't have to compile one, but if you're convinced you do, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelCustomBuild07:34
ballI wish I knew how to build a custom kernel with the right drivers and none of the chaff.07:34
ubotuTo install the Linux (kernel) headers, open a terminal and: sudo apt-get install linux-headers-$(uname -r) To install headers for libraries, you need the accompanying -dev packages07:35
Zaireyea I would like to know more about the programming aspect myself07:35
=== ball remains baffled
ballI would like to be able to write X apps, but I have to make the basic shtuff work first.07:36
ZaireI can't even remember how to make IRC bots anymore lol07:37
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cbx33hey highvoltage 10:37
highvoltagehey cbx33 10:37
cbx33howz it going?10:38
highvoltagetired, but good and happy.10:39
cbx33I think i'm in the same place :D10:39
cbx33things are going good10:39
highvoltagegood to hear, you sounded a bit blue a few weeks ago.10:40
cbx33yeh things were getting me down at work majorly10:40
cbx33still are really, but I'm not letting it get to me10:40
cbx33just trying to accept where I am and work hard to get where I want to be10:40
=== cbx33 has XGL now :D
highvoltagethat's a good attitude.10:41
highvoltageheh. i'm sure you'll get bored of XGL soon :)10:41
cbx33I mean my ultimate goal is to work for canonical10:41
highvoltageit's one of those goals that you can achieve easily enough with lots of hard work.10:41
crimsunthere are a couple positions open, have you applied?10:41
cbx33I applied for the webmaster one 10:42
cbx33I'll check now10:42
crimsungood luck10:42
cbx33heh, I didn't get the webmaster position10:43
cbx33but I got some good feedback from heno10:43
cbx33I don;t think any of the posisitons at the moment are ones I could fill10:43
highvoltageis it something you'd definitely want to do? i would think that you'd go for something more exciting10:43
cbx33not enough experience10:43
cbx33highvoltage: heheh, you mean work for canonical? or the webmaster position?10:44
highvoltagecbx33: the webmaster position10:44
highvoltagecbx33: i would think that you would be more interested in software development10:45
cbx33looking at it, it was my dream job at that time10:45
cbx33I really want to get into the development side of things, hence me learning python10:45
highvoltageor is your rationale to get a job at canonical first, and then to move into something you feel better with?10:45
cbx33It's just taking me some time is all10:45
cbx33highvoltage: not really, as I said, looking at that position, it was something that I could do, would still challenge me in places and wouldenable me to work in the ubuntu community and work from home 10:46
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cbx33it's working with all you guys all day which appeals to me :p10:46
ElectryfierHey anyone know where to find the Qt libraries, compilation problems?10:47
highvoltagei'm hardly here for about 20 minutes a day myself these days10:47
highvoltageElectryfier: compilation problems?10:48
highvoltageqt libraries are shipped with edubuntu10:48
ElectryfierYes, need to compile program because the stupid server which held the RPM failed10:48
highvoltagewhich libraries in particular?10:49
highvoltageyou might need some qt-dev package10:49
Electryfierthe whole thing, in other words: It doesn't specify10:49
highvoltageyou might need to instal some of the packages you might find when doing a apt-cache search qt | grep dev10:49
highvoltagesomeone on #kubuntu might be able to give you more detail, or point you in the right direction10:50
Electryfieri've just been searching every repository i know, and all I found is what I have10:50
Electryfierhey, how exactly do I do an apt-cache search10:56
Electryfierof that10:56
highvoltagein a terminal.10:58
ElectryfierI know that, but the COMMAND10:58
highvoltage$ apt-cache search pacgkage-name10:59
highvoltages/package name/any-keyword-in-package-description10:59
Electryfierso: $ apt-cache search qt | grep dev11:00
highvoltagethere are probably more clever or better ways to do it, but that's how i would do it11:00
Electryfierdid it, and got a bunch of lines with some Qt files at the bottom11:01
Electryfierincluding SOME libraries11:01
Electryfierkdesdk-scripts - a set of useful development scripts for KDE11:02
Electryfierlibavahi-qt3-dev - Development headers for the Avahi QT3 integration library11:02
Electryfierlibcppunit-dev - Unit Testing Library for C++11:02
Electryfierlibdbus-qt-1-dev - simple interprocess messaging system (Qt interface)11:02
Electryfierlibpoppler-qt-dev - PDF rendering library -- development files (Qt interface)11:02
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Electryfierlibqscintilla-dev - Qt source code editing component - development files11:02
Electryfierlibscim-dev - development library for SCIM platform11:02
Electryfierlibsmokeqt-dev - SMOKE Binding Library to Qt - Development Files11:02
Electryfierpython-qt-dev - Qt bindings for Python - Development files11:02
Electryfierpython2.4-sip4-dev - Python/C++ bindings generator - Python2.4+Qt3 devel11:02
Electryfiercamstream - Collection of tools for webcams and other video-devices11:02
Electryfierfacturalux-dev - Development files for facturalux11:02
Electryfiericomlib1-dev - Icom PCR-1000 development kit11:02
Electryfierkde-devel - the K Desktop Environment development files and modules11:02
Electryfierkdesdk-kfile-plugins - KDE file dialog plugins for software development files11:02
highvoltageElectryfier: please don't flood the channel11:03
Electryfierkdevelop3 - An IDE for Unix/X11 - development version11:03
Electryfierkdevelop3-data - An IDE for Unix/X11 - data11:03
Electryfierkdevelop3-dev - An IDE for Unix/X11 - development files11:03
Electryfierkdevelop3-doc - An IDE for Unix/X11 - documentation11:03
Electryfierkdevelop3-plugins - An IDE for Unix/X11 - development files11:03
Electryfierlibace-qtreactor-dev - GUI Integrated Reactors for ACE: Qt Reactor (development files)11:03
Electryfierliberis-1.3-dev - The WorldForge client entity library - development files11:03
cbx333Electryfier: can you please paste to a pastebin11:03
Electryfierlibguile-dev - Development headers and static library for libguile11:03
Electryfierlibqglviewer-dev - A qt/OpenGL-based viewing widget11:03
Electryfierlibqt4-debug-dev - Qt 4 debugging development files11:03
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cbx333thanks highvoltage 11:03
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jsgotangcoplease don't spam11:04
jsgotangcoerr flood11:04
highvoltageElectryfier: please use the pastebin instead of pasting to the channel11:04
Electryfiergot it11:04
Electryfierno pasting11:04
cbx333highvoltage: can we add a pastebin link to the channel topic11:04
cbx333or are we getting too big?11:04
Electryfierso how DO I download that11:04
Electryfierthe qt libs and other devs11:05
highvoltage$ sudo apt-get install package-name11:05
highvoltagefor example:11:05
jsgotangcosudo aptitude install package11:05
=== cbx333 has switched to epiphany
highvoltage$ sudo apt-get install python-qt-dev11:05
jsgotangcocbx333: so you have seen the light11:05
Electryfierany other way? there is like a ton of the packages11:05
highvoltageElectryfier: yes, you can also select it from synaptic11:06
jsgotangcoits smart enough to know which packages you will need 11:06
highvoltageElectryfier: which also has search functionality11:06
jsgotangco(hey highvoltage and cbx333 btw)11:06
cbx333jsgotangco: yes11:06
cbx333it;s much faster11:06
highvoltagehey jsgotangco :)11:06
Electryfierwell the thing is: I downloaded ever single qt thing or qt related thing from Synaptic11:06
Electryfiernot form11:06
highvoltagei nearly wrote CBX333 instead of DDR333 a few weeks back on a technical report :)11:07
cbx333highvoltage: heheh I am forever engrained in your mind11:07
jsgotangcothat's bad11:07
cbx333just wait till we meet :p11:07
jsgotangcohighvoltage: is the meeting later a council meet?11:07
cbx333it should be11:07
Electryfierhey, what if I downloaded every qt, or qt related thing11:08
jsgotangcohighvoltage: ?11:08
Electryfierby using synaptic11:08
Electryfierand no compilation11:08
cbx333Electryfier: it would be extremely space hungry11:08
Electryfierwith a nice big error11:08
jsgotangcowhat are you trying to do?11:08
highvoltagejsgotangco: hmmm.. i don't know.11:08
highvoltagei think i missed a council meet, so now i'm a bit out of sequence.11:09
cbx333w00t - epiphany doesn't lag out mplayer when switching desktops in XGL11:09
cbx333it's the first meet of each month11:09
jsgotangcoi dunno either, the meet scheduled is 4am on my side11:09
highvoltagewow, that's quite early11:09
Electryfiercounting that I had to download 400 MB on patches and updates, plus another 200 MB on qt, I was...11:09
ElectryfierDEAD BORED11:10
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jsgotangcoElectryfier: if you're using aptitude, you could play minesweeper while uplgradeing :D11:11
Electryfierkubuntu channel is not responding, and out of 255 users in, no response11:11
cbx333jsgotangco: hehehe11:11
Electryfierjsgotangco:  I know, but sheesh, i'd rather play gnometris11:12
=== jsgotangco is glad his contract with the UN will end soon
cbx333jsgotangco: after the recent news you mean?11:12
jsgotangcowhat recent news?11:12
cbx333oh ok in general11:12
cbx333I thought you were refering to the North Korea situation11:13
jsgotangcoheh no11:13
cbx333I try not to think about all that, I get very anxious about it all11:13
jsgotangcocbx333: try living in Seoul11:13
=== jsgotangco did
=== cbx333 tries to live in ignorance of somethings
cbx333I get too worried and nervous about them11:14
jsgotangcocbx333: i currently have a contract with the IOSN (www.iosn.net) which is under the UNDP11:14
ElectryfierI wonder wether #kubuntu users are statues or they are sleeping11:14
Electryfierbecause 230 users and no responses is insane11:15
jsgotangcoElectryfier: you could try the mailing list or the forums11:15
Electryfiergood idea11:15
ElectryfierElectryfier, over and out11:15
highvoltageElectryfier: jsgotangco is right. and you might also want to give them a few minutes to respond.11:15
highvoltageElectryfier: some of the most knowledgable people are quite busy, and they only check their irc window every few minutes (or hours)11:16
Electryfierhighvoltage, did give them more than a few minutes11:16
Electryfiermuch more11:16
jsgotangcoyes we slackers tend to just idle by and wait for some activity in the channel11:16
=== Yagisan mumbles he checks about once every 12 hours
cbx333Yagisan:  deng11:17
Yagisancbx333: yes ? working on it right now11:17
cbx333the packages for the models11:17
Yagisancbx333: I'm doing evil things with the new build scripts >:)11:17
cbx333don't seem to exist anymore11:17
Yagisancbx333: add the breezy repo. They need a *massive* update for dapper11:18
Yagisancbx333: its 1.5GB of files11:18
YagisanI don't have time at the moment to update it11:18
cbx333ok I won't install that then11:18
cbx333no no no11:18
cbx333I was just curious11:18
cbx333but now I'm not11:18
Yagisanand theres a new upstream release on several packs imminent11:18
cbx333XGL will be my new toy for a while longer yet anyway11:18
Yagisancbx333: it's broken up into smaller download, just the source is huge11:19
Yagisancbx333: the biggest chunk is about 50~60MB11:19
Yagisanheh heh. Install command for Windows "deltree c:\*.*"11:20
Yagisanso tempting11:20
ElectryfierBecause I installed Edubuntu 2 days ago, upon updating: installing, scrollkeeper installation crashed, I ended up with a *bruised* Edubuntu, went into recovery and ran apt-get to reinstall all of the updates11:22
Electryfiera real nightmare11:22
Electryfieranyone had a same or worse experience11:22
jsgotangcohighvoltage: have you uploaded your pics?11:23
highvoltage no, i'll get to that now, i've had interruptions last time i wanted too, i have some time now...11:23
Electryfieroh yes, by bruised I ment useless, because I couldn't standardly run Edubuntu as admin to do it through the GUI11:24
Electryfierbecause in other modes it was asking for some password for root which I didn't know11:25
Electryfierthen what IS the password for root?11:26
Electryfierhighvoltage, do you know what is the password for root11:27
Electryfierwell bye11:29
Yagisanlove those impatient people11:29
Yagisanoh oh answer my question !!!?!. a few seconds later they are gone.11:30
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Yagisanhighvoltage: out of curiosity, why do you auto-op here ?11:31
highvoltageYagisan: i think it's because my nick is the registered channel founder, i could probably turn it off, if it bothers anyone :)11:32
=== mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage] by highvoltage
highvoltagesometimes i deop after i login, but usually i don't bother11:33
Yagisanhighvoltage: just wondering. I usually don't advertise I'm an op until 5 seconds before I kick someone11:34
jsgotangcowow i coded all day11:36
jsgotangcohoray for bzr11:36
ograyep, thats the usual practice in other ubuntu channels as well11:36
jsgotangconow to wait for tommorow the publishing in lp11:37
RobinShepheardYagisan, daft question, but I have been away a bit, how is your daughters hand11:40
RobinShepheardwas it something I said?? I ask one question and all coversation comes to a halt11:51
YagisanRobinShepheard: she's healed well now. Thank's for asking11:52
RobinShepheardno problem Yagisan, I did wonder as I have been offline for a while due to moving flats11:53
RobinShepheardshould be getting internet access back in about 5 days11:53
Yagisanbbl. Dinner11:54
jsgotangcoim going home too12:06
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RobinShepheardI have a bit of a daft question, if anyone can help12:53
RobinShepheardHow do packages make it into the repositories. Do they have to be available in the debian repositories or do ubuntu have there own additions12:54
RobinShepheardthis follows my reasoning that all edubuntu packages come from ubuntu12:55
bimberiRobinShepheard: things can be packaged especially for ubuntu, but it is an important part of the project to work with upstream12:55
bimberiRobinShepheard: edubuntu and ubuntu are the same thing as far as packages are concerned - they both use the same repositories12:56
RobinShepheardok, I wondered as I am looking at creating a ha-cluster with edubuntu and most of the packages listed for the purposes don't appear to be in the repos12:57
RobinShepheardbimberi, I did think that was the case, hence the comment about the ubuntu repositories12:58
bimberiRobinShepheard: true i guess, but that would also mean that they're not available to ubuntu either12:58
bimberiRobinShepheard: ah kk :)12:58
RobinShepheardbimberi, yeah, that is what I am finding12:58
RobinShepheardsupposing I can get it all working, and I work out how to create a package for the apps, how do I go about getting it included in next release, repos, whatever12:59
bimberiRobinShepheard: by becoming or enlisting the support of the MOTUs01:00
ubotumotu is short for Masters of the Universe. The brave souls who maintain the packages in the Universe section of Ubuntu. See  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU01:00
RobinShepheardbimberi, cheers for info01:00
bimberiRobinShepheard: yw, all the best with it :)01:00
RobinShepheardmy reasoning is if you can have a ha-cluster of commodity hardware, the package may well be more attractive to larger establishments01:02
RobinShepheardlow cost with an attractive level of reliability01:02
bimberiRobinShepheard: you'll have to point me to some good reading about ha-clusters :)01:05
RobinShepheardbimberi, http://www.nostarch.com/frameset.php?startat=cluster seems to be a well written book, I am halfway through at tge 01:07
RobinShepheard*doh at the mo01:07
RobinShepheardbimberi, what country are you from??01:08
bimberiRobinShepheard: Australia, you?01:09
RobinShepheardahh UK01:09
RobinShepheardI was wondering as to best place to possibly buy the book, o'reilly sell the book from their store01:10
RobinShepheardI got it from a uk company computer manuals, but they not a lot of use to you really01:10
RobinShepheardthe book is only about 400 pages and is aimed at redhat users, but I am sure it can be adapted to work with ubuntu/edubuntu01:12
bimberinot really no.  Thanks for the link :)01:12
RobinShepheardno problem, I try to be as useful as I can01:12
RobinShepheardbimberi, do you actually work for canonical??01:13
bimberiRobinShepheard: no, just a lover of *ubuntu who tries to be useful too :)01:17
RobinShepheardfair enough01:18
RobinShepheardI got to go and test the dhcp and dns system on my first part of the cluster, I will be back in a bit01:19
bimberigee wouldn't it be interesting if the LTSP classroom server was actually a virtual server made up from the clustered unused capacity of the LTSP clients01:20
cbx333bimberi: that's a scary thought01:21
cbx333the client runs atop the distributed server01:21
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Yagisanbimberi: I made a system like that a while ago01:23
Yagisanbimberi: used openmosix on 2.4 kernels01:24
Yagisanbimberi: only problem was apps that used shared memory didn't migrate :(01:24
Yagisanon the other hand, ripping and encoding cd's to .ogg went very quick :)01:24
bimberiYagisan: cool :)01:36
bimbericbx333: yes, it could be sortof ssh-ing into itself :)01:37
Yagisanbimberi: if the get shared memory migration working, it would be good for edubuntu01:38
bimberiYagisan: ah, is it being worked on then?01:39
Yagisanbimberi: but as it is, after 6 firefox sessions, the clients just could not handle it01:39
Yagisanbimberi: think so. the 2.6 port is taking a long time01:39
cbx333bimberi: hehhe ahhh sshing to your own machine01:47
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=== DanielC waves
bddebianHello DanielC02:42
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Amaranthhey ogra02:49
ograAmaranth, hey02:49
ograi did the review :)02:49
Amaranthtold them i sucked, right? :)02:50
ograi think you can read parts of it anywhere at google02:50
ograat least th eform said so02:50
Amaranththey still haven't paid me :P02:50
ograand no, i praised you indeed :)02:51
cbx33if there is a package that is broken02:52
cbx33how can i tell apt-get to stop trying to in stall it02:53
cbx33i want to tell it to forget the packages it was going to install02:53
Amaranthsudo apt-get remove <package>02:53
cbx33w00t thanx Amaranth i was doing it on the package that was causing the issue02:54
cbx33but I had to do it on the one before02:54
cbx33if you know what I mean02:54
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jsgotangcomeh i barely survived that02:56
cbx33urvived what ?02:56
jsgotangcothe upgrade02:57
highvoltagerodarvus, jsgotangco: ping03:05
rodarvushighvoltage, pong03:05
highvoltagerodarvus: photos are mostly uploaded, i'm just busy uploading the last ones, photos.jonathancarter.co.za03:06
rodarvushighvoltage, thanks!03:06
=== rodarvus browses
=== cbx33 has big problems with his machine at home
cbx33for some reason ubuntu won;t mount a partition from inside a W95 extended partition03:07
cbx33anyone ever come across this03:08
bddebianHeya jsgotangco03:09
=== jsgotangco pigs out highvoltage's bandwidth
rodarvushttp://photos.jonathancarter.co.za/udsparis2006/800_PICT0226 <- good one :D03:11
highvoltagejsgotangco: it's a server in the uk, so pig out all you like ;)03:13
highvoltageps: they're uploaded at a low resolution, i'm running out of space on that server, if you want high-res pics of any of those photos, just let me know and i'll put those in a tarball for you03:14
jsgotangcoi dont think i'll be able to attend the meeting later, that'll be 4am and im not sure i;ll be able to wake up03:18
jsgotangcois it a council meeting?03:18
cbx33ping ogra 03:19
ogracbx33, pong03:19
cbx33how are the merges coming along?03:19
ograi was stuck with a broken system until 1h ago03:20
jsgotangcoyeah hehehe03:20
jsgotangco"wheat farm"03:22
jsgotangco"ghost town"03:22
jsgotangcovillage with no people03:23
ograyep, its a council meeting03:23
ograand i'd like to talk over the artteam lead ... we'll need a decision here ...03:24
jsgotangcodo we have any other candidates?03:24
ograjsgotangco, rodarvus, wanted to suggest someone iirc03:24
jsgotangcook i will wake up for that then03:25
=== jsgotangco sets the alarm clock
rodarvusogra, not really, what I'm also looking for a decision03:26
ograjsgotangco, the council should have quorum ... so only do it if you really want to03:26
=== ogra has put it on the agenda
rodarvusplenty of time until the meeting this afternoon still03:27
cbx33y machine is foobar, not quite sure what to do03:32
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jsgotangcorodarvus: yes considering i will have to sleep first then it becomes my first agenda when i wake up ;)03:42
rodarvusjsgotangco, what time is going to be in Manil[l] a? 4am?03:43
jsgotangcoyeah hehehe03:44
jsgotangcoits ok im used to such03:45
jsgotangcowho knows my mobile # just in case?03:45
mhzCIA does03:46
jsgotangcoi doubt that03:46
mhzwell, true..hehehe03:46
=== mhz thinks cel phones should be able to get pings
=== jsgotangco checks if xubuntu survives edgy
mhzogra: hey, did you get the parcel?03:47
ogramhz, yeah, thanks a lot !03:47
=== mhz was about to say "package" but considering ogra's work.... ;)
ograthe keyring thingie is on my car keyring now :)03:48
mhzhehehe, good03:48
mhzyour welcome03:48
mhzsorry I could not send more stuff. I was about to but too many weired things happened03:48
mhzogra: I am now writing a proposal for an institute called Teleton. They help people (mostly children) with a11y issues. Now they are very well impressed by Edubuntu, so if they accept the proposal, Edubuntu will be the king in at least 10 mini labs all over Chile03:50
mhzand I will have to learn how to demo a11y apps03:51
mhzand obviously understand a11y real issues03:51
ogratalk to the a11y team03:51
mhzyup, sent email yesterday asking for tips or even videos to show off03:51
jsgotangcohave you talked to heno03:51
mhzjust sent email03:52
jsgotangcoor TheMuso as well03:52
mhzif no response in next 3 hours, then will send email to him directly03:52
mhzmy 1st 2 candidates03:52
mhzas I said before in this channel and a couple of emails to the ML, this is the year to propose things in Chile03:53
jsgotangcomhz: if i go blind in the future, don't worry, i'll still use a computer...although don't pray it happens.03:53
mhznext year, it will be too difficult03:53
mhzjsgotangco: hehehe03:53
mhzyesterday I demoed Edubuntu (mostly gcompris) to the Chief of Education Department in Teleton. She was sooooo happy with Gcompris. She mentioned at least 7 or 10 ways to use Gcompris (she used lots of educational tech vocabulary) per Gcompris application03:55
mhznext time, I will take a record machine03:55
mhzit was so important to know these details03:56
mhzbecuase it is exactly what we are missing in Edubuntu03:56
mhzexperts on education telling us how well we could suit Edubuntu for diff needs in education03:56
mhzcross currciular stuff, and all03:56
ograwell, ask her to write it down and she'll get the improvement :)03:57
mhzColombia and Venezuela are already doing very good job on IT for Education03:57
mhzyup, I did ask her but then she said "I can dictate and you write" :D03:57
DanielCmhz: are they?03:58
mhzDanielC: yup, many Colombian people are doing great efforts on IT for Eucation using FLOSS03:58
DanielCmhz: I'm Venezuelan, and I would be shocked to hear that the Venezuelan government has done anything right.03:58
mhzand Venezuela are legally promoting FLOSS as their Governement backs FLOSS up very much03:59
mhzwell, yeah03:59
DanielCIf you replaced the Venezuelan president by a lava lamp the country would be better off.03:59
mhzone thing is "doing much" and other is "doing well"03:59
mhzThere is ISEIT institute in Venezuela04:00
mhzthey are doing lot of training on FLOSS to the "petroleras" people04:00
DanielCI see.04:01
DanielCThe "petroleras" people are good.04:01
DanielCJust about the only thing that works in the entire country.04:01
mhzactually, Ricardo Strusberg, Director of ISEIT ihas played important role in the law for FLOSS04:01
DanielCMostly because it's independent of the government.04:01
mhzindependancy gives you more choices04:02
mhzBrasil is also doing lots of stuff about FLOSS04:02
DanielCI've heard good things about Brazil.04:02
mhzOne of the stuff I have to do this year is to re-submit a project for a FLOSS law in Chile04:03
mhzso far, in LAm (latinamerica) only Venezuela has FLOSS in a law framework, afaik04:04
mhzBrazil seems to be close, and Argentina is too.04:04
mhzThis and next year are key in LAm for FLOSS04:04
DanielCI assure you that if the Venezuelan government did something right it was entirely by accident.04:05
mhzwell, my guess is whatever is anti-US was considered good04:05
DanielCDo you have a link to this Venezuelan law about FLOSS?04:05
DanielCYou are probably right actually.04:05
mhzhmm, not now but I could ask Ricardo Strusberg to provide good amount of info about it04:06
mhzDanielC: however, my approach for FLOSS in Chile is not anti-US (as I think it is in Venezuela and soon in Bolivia), but more "let's work on education using FLOSS as 1st alternative"04:07
mhzand we can take it from there04:07
DanielCI have little doubt that this pro-FLOSS thing is largely because the President is very anti-US. (not that I'm a fan of the US myself)04:07
DanielCI think your approach is better.04:08
cbx33can someone do me a favour04:08
mhzI had the chance to organize a mini fair a couple of weeks ago and inivted many small biz people. They all said to have no objections to use FLOSS over non-free technology. Many were very pleased to see Edubuntu in action even.04:08
cbx33can you see if, www.progbox.co.uk resolves04:08
=== mhz tabs
DanielCNot resolving.04:09
cbx33ok thank you04:09
mhznope, not resolving04:09
mhzor taking toooo loooong04:09
cbx33yup thanks guys04:10
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sbalneavGood morning #edubuntu!!04:10
ograhe sbalneav 04:10
sbalneavhey hey04:11
mhzDanielC: if you read spanish, it would be helpful for me if you could take a look at a set of info I have been working on about FLOSS and some related areas (support, biz, costs, etc). They are very short articles about it (about 1 or 2 paragraphs each)04:11
DanielCmhz: I read Spanish...04:11
sbalneavogra: What are you doing Friday?04:11
ogradriving 04:12
ogranext piecemeal move step ...04:12
DanielCmhz: I'm a fluent Spanish speaker, what do you need me to do?04:13
mhzDanielC: just read and tell me if is KISS enough04:13
sbalneavAh!  Ok, then let me rephrase my question.  I would like to take a day off work, and be home and available for VOIP session with you to finalize my devel environment.  What day would be a good day for you?  Doesn't need to be a rush.04:13
DanielCmhz: Sure... I don't know how valid my opinion is but I'll try...04:13
mhzthey all start by TecnologiaLibre...04:13
DanielCmhz: Who wrote this?04:14
mhza friend of mine and me04:14
DanielCYou speak Spanish?04:14
ograsbalneav, then on monday i guess ... 04:14
sbalneavIs that ok with you?04:14
ograi also need to get a headset for my ibook first ...04:15
ograi have no working voip HW at the moment ...04:15
ograbut yes, monday is ok with me04:15
sbalneavNo!  Don't buy anything on my account.04:15
sbalneavI can just phone you long distance.04:15
ograi need it for the company anyway04:15
ograthats why we got the headsets in paris ... all company members are supposed to keep and use them with the company system for meetings at some point04:16
ograsadly the headset doesnt work on an ibook, i need to get a usb one04:16
sbalneavI was under the impression that you already had the stuff anyway.  Will the company pay for it?  I don't want to see you got out-of-pocket.  You've probably got enough expenses now.04:17
ograits a *headset* not a 12 CPU server :)04:17
ograi bet i can even claim back taxes for it if i want04:17
DanielCmhz: What's your email?04:18
sbalneavWould the company pay for a 12 cpu server?  If so, please send it to Scott Balneaves, 83 Alburg Drive, Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada, R2N 1M1 :)04:18
ograheh, i dont think we even have a 12 CPU server in the datacenter :)04:18
ograprobably one with 12 sockets though04:19
ogradid i mention that kdeedu merging sucks04:19
=== ogra sighs deeply and kicks the build again
jsgotangcoit sucks so bad04:20
ograbecause it takes hours to get the build dependencys ... somehow our package uses a different upstream source from the debian one ... its 60MB source to build 20 binaries and n libs04:20
ograits the worst package i know04:20
ograadditionally it has millions of buiuld deps due to the fact that it builds so many binaries04:21
mhzDanielC: mhz AT ubuntu DOT com04:22
mhzDanielC: you can also reach me at #edubuntu-es :D04:22
cbx33ogra: we need to get rid of kdeedu04:25
ograwell, write a kalzium replacement :)04:25
DanielCmhz: You realize that in Spanish "libre" implies freedom and not price. It doesn't have the ambiguity of English.04:25
DanielCogra: Is kalzium the main reason for having kdeedu?04:26
mhzDanielC: yup, why?04:27
jsgotangcoits one of the defining reasons though04:27
ograDanielC, well, others are not as much in the scope of everyone ... kalzium is very prominent, won several priices etc etc04:27
jsgotangcothe others are forgettable04:27
DanielCmhz: No biggie... I just noticed your spending some time explaining that difference on one of the pages. Nothing wrong with that though...04:27
DanielCogra: Ok, I see.04:28
mhzheheh, yeah, it was meant to be explained to avoid misunderstandings04:28
DanielCogra: What's so special about kalzium? does it do something that's hard to emulate?04:28
DanielCmhz: ok04:28
mhzat least, many people i know in Chile, still say "es gratis"04:28
ograDanielC, there is nothing like it in gnome land04:28
DanielCmhz: I see...  then it's good that you point that out then.04:29
mhzbut they still say "gratis" hehehe04:29
ograit has several features to demonstarte stuff on the chemical elements04:29
mhzyup, un/fortunately kalzium has lots of intersting stuff to show off04:29
DanielCit's so unfortunate that we have this Gtk/Qt split.04:30
DanielCI'm running kalzium now. Yeah, it does have a lot in it.04:31
DanielCMaking a Gnome version seems like needless duplication.04:31
ograits ok ... its the programmers that suck here (including me) writing apps that are not cleanly separated iin front/backends04:32
DanielCIt's sad that the library issue makes it needfull.04:32
ograhave a look at ubiquity ... 04:32
ograits a great example of frontend independence04:32
mhzogra: i would not say you or the programmers 'suck'. I guess it is not meant to be like that. Or you say it is easily avoidable?04:33
ograit is ... you just need to plan more in advance04:33
ogramore extensive use of dbus will help in the future04:33
DanielCWhat's dbus?04:34
mhzogra: but could that 'planning' actually be done by all of you in 'devl-friendly' fashion? Or it is a matter of amount of 'hands?'04:34
jsgotangcoogra: will dapper have a point release soon? or is it limited to edgy?04:34
ograa communication service ... apps can communicate via dbus with each other or with a backend04:35
ograjsgotangco, i think there are point releases planned ... there was a spec for it04:35
jsgotangcoyeah i thought so too04:35
=== mhz has just wiped out tons of emails about viagra :(
=== DanielC loves Bayesian spam filters
=== ogra loves server side spam filtering :)
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=== bimberi lets gmail do the filtering
=== crashzor [n=crashzor@t-miog.demon.nl] has joined #edubuntu
rinkeI use Edubuntu breezy and I think the introduction don't work as well. 04:41
ograrinke, you mean http://www.edubuntu.org/gettingstarted ? 04:41
rinkeNo I mean  file:///usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html 04:43
rinke I think "file:///usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/www.linux.org"  is wrong, and that it should be http://www.linux.org04:51
crashzoris there anybody know the act goal group of this project ? 04:51
jsgotangcocrashzor: ?04:52
rinkecrashzor: Take  the tour  of Edubuntu. There are many school-related applications installed by default, including TuxPaint, TuxMath, and TuxTyping, among others.04:53
rinkeSee also: http://www.edubuntu.com/FAQ04:53
rinkeCrashor: It's the same as Ubuntu but Edubuntu is special for schools. 04:55
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crashzorjsgotangco, on what users the project is goaling ( age of students ) 04:56
ograrinke, right, the linux.org link is wrong04:56
ograwould you mind filing a bug against edubuntu-artwork in breezy ?04:56
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rinkeorga: How can I do that?05:00
ograrinke, 05:01
ograwhopps, drop the # there05:02
jsgotangcook im going to crash for a bit then just wake up for the meeting05:02
rinkePackpage is edubuntu-artwork?05:03
rinkeI couldn't send a bug there are  An error occurred.05:10
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thilak123Hey guys, world's most secure instant messenger is now available05:40
thilak123it support desktop sharing and file sharing along with text chat05:41
thilak123Completely free !!05:41
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Yagisanthilak123: no thanks. We don't need spam here05:44
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=== mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage] by highvoltage
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rodarvushighvoltage, ping06:24
rodarvushighvoltage, are do you plan to be online later today?06:25
rodarvusI'll make some changes to edubuntu-xfce-desktop (in the next half hour) - would appreciate greatly if you could set it for Review, after I finish my changes06:26
ograrodarvus, only the owner can change that i think ... try if you can od it yourself06:26
rodarvusogra, I'm only planning on change stuff on the wiki page06:27
rodarvusthats why I asked highvoltage if he's going to stay for a while ;)06:27
ograbut if its ready for review, mark it like that06:27
ogra(if you can)06:27
ograwe're running out of time :)06:27
rodarvusyep :)06:28
rodarvusI wanted to refrain from poking ubuntu-reviewers, but it seems we'll have to do it anyway06:28
highvoltagerodarvus: yes, i plan to be online then06:29
highvoltagerodarvus: thanks, i really appreciate that :)06:29
rodarvusI'm supposed to be the Assignee anyway :)06:30
=== highvoltage opens up firefox
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=== ogra sighs while watching pbuilder the third time setting up 300MB build deps for kdeedu
=== highvoltage 's mouth drops
ogra287 to be precise06:34
=== cbx33 slaps ogra's wrist for making seem worse than they were :p
ograwell, the package is unzipped over 100MB big06:34
cbx33but even 287 is pretty bad06:34
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isgHi, all.06:35
cbx33ogra, not meaning to interrupt you06:36
isgProblems with ltsp. I was wondering if I could find some help.06:36
ograthere is not much to interrupt06:36
cbx33but have you ever had an ext 3 partition that ubuntu refuses to mount06:36
ograi'm just watching the ugly thing building ...06:36
highvoltagehi isg. did you specifically choose do join #EDUBUNTU? normally we see it in lowercase letters, #edubuntu.06:36
isghighvoltage: Yeah, I typed it from memory. :P06:36
ogra(and pray that it finishes properly so i can start a 2h upload)06:36
highvoltageisg: ok :)06:37
highvoltageisg: fire away, you can ask questions in this channel at any time06:37
isgltsp problem, if anyone can help: I installed a new server two days ago, and it was working. I shut it down for the holiday, came back to the office today, and can't get it running properly again.06:37
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ograubuntu ltsp ? or ltsp.org ltsp ?06:38
isgWhen I boot a thin client machine, I get to the login screen. Then, when I attempt to  login, I just get bounced back to the login screen06:38
isgubuntu ltsp 6.0606:38
ogradid the ip of the server change somehow ? 06:38
isgI believe it's had coded. Let me verify...06:38
ograor did you install sabayon before the reboot ?06:38
isgI did install sabayon, yes06:39
isgThe IP is hard coded. No chane06:39
isgno change06:39
ograyou need a profile for every user, else sabayon forbids ssh logins06:39
isgbah. that's too easy. ;)06:39
isgThanks, ogra.06:39
ogranah, thats a bug :)06:39
ograbut supposed to be fixed in edgy :)06:40
isgIs there a quick/easy way for me to globally turn off the hibernate option from the logout pane? That's a problem, too06:40
ograthere is a gconf key you can set in gnome-power-manager ... that sadly doesnt hide the button, but should make it non functional06:41
isgok, thanks06:41
isgogra, another quick question, if you have a moment.06:45
isgI have users in ldap. I was just able to login with a local user just fine, but the ldap user I just tested with can't login. Any ideas?06:45
ogralook at pam :)06:45
isgheh. ok06:46
ogra(i'm by no means a pam guy, but we use it for login, so a ldap serviuce there should help you)06:46
isghrm, looks like pam stuffs may not have gotten fully configured. I thought that was done. bah06:47
rodarvushighvoltage, ping06:47
highvoltagerodarvus: pong06:47
rodarvus"update-alternatives could be used to provide the appropriate default desktop wallpaper for the Xfce desktop"06:47
rodarvuswhy is this item necessary/relevant on the spec?06:47
highvoltageit assumes that the LDM bugs won't be fixed06:48
highvoltagepreviously, LDM didn't know which sessions were installed,06:48
highvoltageso users wouldn't be able to choose between GNOME or Xfce06:48
highvoltageso the administrator would have needed to change it for all users by using update-alternatives.06:48
ograrodarvus, ldm ececuted the default system session only  ... or a ~/.xsession file06:48
highvoltagewith ldmd, this won't be necassary anymore.06:49
highvoltageogra: am i correct here?06:49
rodarvusand why a wallpaper change via update-alternatives is relevant, even in this case?06:49
ograsince you can select the session in the gui06:49
ograyes, thats something we wouldnt do with update-alternatives06:50
highvoltageok, i noted that because you'd probably want the same default wallpaper for Xfce than in Gnome.06:50
highvoltagebut if it can be done any other way, then great.06:50
ograthen you should use the appropriate method xfce uses to set the wallpaper06:51
rodarvusexactly :)06:51
rodarvusdo you mind if I just remove this item from the spec?06:51
rodarvus" * {{{ ldm }}} should ideally be able to allow users to switch between GNOME and Xfce. This is a planned feature for LDM."06:52
rodarvusthis is already in plans for ldmd, isn't it?06:52
ograwe called it ldminfo i think ... in the ldm spec06:53
rodarvussee? the design section is now one line long :D06:53
ograbut you should leave it in there06:54
ograand make this spec depend on the ldm one06:54
rodarvusbut I'll write this comment down on the design section06:54
rodarvusogra, do you have the url to the ldm spec?06:56
rodarvusoh, this is the ldm spec :)06:57
isgogra, thanks a bunch. It looks like I'm all set.07:00
isgDamn, but I love Ubuntu! :)07:00
isglater, all. :)07:00
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DanielCogra: What do I do after I upload to Revu? Do I just wait in the hope that a MOTU will notice it?07:01
DanielC(notice the package)07:01
ograping some moptus to review it :)07:03
rodarvusogra, don't we already have an edubuntu specific seed?07:03
ograsure, why ? 07:03
DanielCogra: Is that considered acceptable behaviour or will they find it annoying?07:03
rodarvuskamion mentions one would need to be "created" to accomodate for the changes on the spec to happen07:03
ograwell, just dont do it in an annoying way :P :)07:03
rodarvusogra, this comment puzzled me as well07:04
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ograrodarvus, we'll need to add a xfce seed to the existing one07:04
rodarvusyou mean, create another seed?07:05
ograour current seed contains live, desktop, server, supported, ship, ship-live (and other stuff i forgot) we'll need a xfce-desktop one (or even only xfce)07:05
rodarvusjust updating the current one won't suffice?07:05
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ograwe need to add a section to it07:05
=== pygi got his cd's today, and gave all away in just 10 minutes :P
ograits not a whole new seed07:05
ajay_hey ogra pygi Seveas Yagisan 07:06
spaceyi'm on time for the meeting07:08
pygispacey, what meeting is it?07:09
spaceyso busy lately07:09
pygiI just returned from a trip :-/07:10
spaceywhat kind of trip?07:11
ajay_hey spac07:11
ajay_hey spacey 07:11
pygispacey, FOSS related again :-/07:11
spaceyis it that bad?:)07:12
pygispacey, I am "losing" insane ammount of time on FOSS lately07:12
spaceywell its in your own hands:)07:12
pygispacey, easy to say :)07:13
pygiI guess I can't complain tho :)07:13
rodarvusogra, so we need to keep mentioning  the seed changes on the spec, I assume07:15
rodarvusbut kamion also mentioned changes to cdimage and gfx-theme-ubuntu07:15
rodarvusis all of this necessary just to add information to a seed?07:15
ograit needs to be a separate one that creates a separate -desktop package07:15
ograits not just adding packages to an existing seed07:16
rodarvusI see07:16
ogragerminate needs to be changed to be aware of the new name, a seed has to be created in the edubuntu seed bzr tree07:16
ogranote that i didnt touch the seeds since release, dont ask me how they work now after the move to LP ... i'll have to find out next week before the first knot CD07:17
rodarvuslast question07:21
rodarvusThis is all very incomplete. At minimum, you need an Edubuntu-specific seed (`xfce-desktop` or whatever) to make sure all the bits you need stay in main, you need to note cdimage as an affected package because it needs to put all the right bits on the CD images and because changes to the preseed files there will be needed to make this a boot option, translations for that boot option need to be added to `gfxboot-theme-ubuntu`, and so on. --cj07:21
rodarvus(pasting context to make it easier to ask :) )07:21
rodarvusI don't understand why this needs to be a boot option somewhere07:22
highvoltagei think his rationale was so that you can choose an option that will automatically only install Xfce07:23
highvoltageas apposed to installing edubuntu-desktop + edubuntu-xfce-desktop07:23
highvoltageor installing minimal + edubuntu-xfce-desktop07:23
rodarvusand it has to be chosen during boottime?07:24
rodarvusits an option, for sure07:24
highvoltagei don't think it's critical either.07:24
highvoltage(to be a boot menu option)07:24
highvoltagealthough it is a very good nice-to-have07:25
rodarvusI just wonder if its critical enough to be a boottime option07:25
rodarvus(or if it only deserves a question later during setup)07:25
highvoltagei don't think it is.07:25
highvoltageogra said that putting in more questions in the setup is not allowed.07:25
highvoltageso perhaps it just needs a howto instead07:26
ograrodarvus, the idea was to support low end servers where even Hd space is an issue07:27
rodarvusogra, I understand07:27
ograand no, questions in the installer are not allowed ... they need to have a very good reason to be asked :)07:27
rodarvusand are boot options allowed? :)07:27
ograsince they are in a beautiful menu now ...07:28
rodarvusin my POV they should be even more critical than setup questions :)07:28
ograbut our menu is full :P07:28
rodarvusogra, exactly.07:28
rodarvusour menu is full of choices already07:28
ograwell, we could clean that up a bit i guess07:28
ograi.e. i doubt memory test is really essential07:29
ograboot from first HD could be dropped, rescue offers such a feature iirc07:29
ograso that would free two slots07:30
ograone of them could be "install edubuntu light"07:30
=== pygi nods :)
=== Laser_away is now known as LaserJock
rodarvusI doubt we'll be able to remove these two (as they are present on all other cds)07:31
rodarvusbut I'm beaten vote ;)07:31
ograwell, the workstation option isnt present on any other CD ... so we're able to change it :)07:32
=== ogra dances ...
ograkdeedu 3.5.3 built !!07:33
ogranow moving the 3.5.2 ubuntu patches ... gah thats such an ugly thing ...07:33
pygiogra, :)07:34
rodarvushighvoltage, ogra: I've just updated the spec (+wiki page)07:40
rodarvusplease take a look at it if you can07:40
rodarvusI'll try to find someone to review it for us :)07:40
LaserJockrodarvus, ogra, highvoltage : would it be possible to do a miniBOF here on dynamic menus before the Edubuntu meeting? I want to get this thing done07:43
highvoltagerodarvus: ok, i'll read in a sec07:44
highvoltageLaserJock: hey there! sure, i'm not sure how much i'd be able to help, I haven't read about XDG, etc since the summit as I planned, but I can certainly be here.07:45
rodarvusLaserJock, sure, ping when you're ready07:45
LaserJockif Burgwork's around maybe he can help as well ;-)07:45
rodarvusI'll be busy for the next 5-6 hours, but we need to get this thing done in one way or another07:45
LaserJockrodarvus: k, np07:46
highvoltagerodarvus: nice cleanup on that page.07:48
LaserJockok, let me just throw out a couple questions that I need cleared up still07:49
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BurgworkLaserJock, hmm?07:50
LaserJock1) do we want to define the "groups" a student belongs to using /etc/group or a separate file that contains user/group mappings?07:50
LaserJockBurgwork: I need to finish off EdubuntuDynamicMenus spec07:50
Burgworkah, ok07:50
BurgworkLaserJock, you meeting right now?07:51
LaserJockwell, I'll throw stuff out there and see if I get any bites07:51
rodarvusI've found a victim^H^H^H^H^H^Hvolunteer to review the specs :D07:51
LaserJockI don't have a ton of time today07:51
LaserJockrodarvus: hehe07:51
PetarisHas anyone successfully gotten the ltsp clients to authenticate to Active Directory?07:51
highvoltagethat would be interesting with ubuntu ltsp.07:53
BurgworkPetaris, ajmitch is doing something with authentication for SoC07:53
PetarisHello highvoltage07:53
highvoltagehi there Petaris 07:53
PetarisI guess that is really secondary to getting a client to boot at all07:54
Petarisbut I was just curious if anyone had it working or was working on it07:54
rodarvusok, spec is back to review07:58
rodarvusspec is back for drafting07:58
highvoltagei've read about people authenticating agains active directory with ltsp, but i get a feeling that was the traditional ltsp systems that were in use07:58
rodarvushighvoltage, do you want to edit it, or leave it to me?07:58
highvoltagerodarvus: did you read matt's comments on -devel?07:58
highvoltagerodarvus: i'm very happy for you to edit07:58
rodarvushighvoltage, he already added a comment to the spec whiteboard07:58
highvoltagei don't mind editon as well07:58
rodarvus(basically the same stuff)07:59
highvoltagein which section would be the best section to explain the differences between xubuntu-desktop and "edubuntu-xfce-desktop"?08:00
highvoltagesorry if that's not a very intelligent question, i'm a bit fried atm08:01
PetarisThere is an edubuntu-xfce-desktop?08:02
ogradesign or implementation08:02
ograPetaris, not yet08:02
rodarvushighvoltage, are you doing it?08:02
PetarisHi ogra08:02
rodarvusi was going to update the spec right now08:02
highvoltagerodarvus: i was about to start, i'll cancel my edit, np08:02
highvoltagerodarvus: canceled08:03
rodarvusI'll do it now08:03
highvoltagethank you.08:03
highvoltagei shoudldn't have registered the spec on 06-06-06, perhaps it would have gone smoother if i didnt :)08:03
LaserJockbah, no excuses :-)08:04
highvoltageheh, i thought i wouldn't be able to get away with that!08:04
rodarvuswe're *this* close to having this spec approved - calm down ;)08:04
=== highvoltage takes a deap breath
rodarvusby the way08:05
rodarvusI forgot what happened to gdm-guest-login08:06
rodarvusit was delayed for edgy+1?08:06
ogradid we have a BOF for that one ? 08:06
ograi dont think so08:06
rodarvusI think it was more like a quick chat08:07
highvoltagerodarvus: i don't think we did. i think we wanted to on friday, but there were interruptions08:07
highvoltagethere was some chat about it, yes.08:07
rodarvushighvoltage, don't you want to implement it for Edgy? we might be able to approve it, if we can draft the remaining parts of it in time08:08
ograit has no asignee, is low and in braindump08:08
ograand it would rather have to be called gdm-and-ldm-guest-login08:08
rodarvusogra, indeed08:09
highvoltagei don't think it's that important, i think it's even fine for edgy+1, i'm not sure.08:09
ograor only guest-login :)08:09
highvoltageguest-login would be much more appropriate08:09
rodarvusogra, but thats just a matter of poking the nearest LP god ;)08:09
highvoltagerodarvus: i don't think i'd be able to implement it. it seems a bit complicated.08:10
rodarvusI can implement this spec, but surely only on Edgy+108:10
rodarvusis a nice feature to have08:10
highvoltagerodarvus: which is why i think it's unwise to volunteer to do it.08:10
highvoltagerodarvus: heh, i think i would be able to do it for edgy+1 too :)08:10
ograi think it should rather go into the direction to have a safe guest user by default in the system08:10
ograwithout having to do anything08:11
highvoltagebut I'd have to do lots of reading first, i don't know how complicated gdm is to hack, ldm certainly seems reasonable. then there's persistent homes and stuff, which i don't know much about in ubuntu, i've last only used it with knoppix.08:11
rodarvussafe guest user is a huge task08:11
highvoltageogra: that sounds good08:11
rodarvushuge huge stuff08:11
ograrodarvus, but the right way to do it imho ... :)08:12
PetarisWhen I do an ltsp-build-client --arch i386 I get a bunch of "Unable to fetch" messages08:12
rodarvusogra, indeed :)08:12
rodarvusI'm not disagreeing with you here - it was just a comment ;)08:12
ograPetaris, are you behind a proxy ? 08:12
Petarisbut I set the proxy08:13
Petarisand it was grabbing fine08:13
ograhow ? 08:13
ograwith the http_proxy variable ? 08:13
ogra(not sure that gets set by default from the gui)08:13
Petarisexport http_proxy="http://proxy.somewhere.net:8760"08:13
ograthne apt-get should pick it up08:14
ograthats dapper ? 08:14
Petarismaybe the proxy is having issues08:14
Petarisyeah, dapper08:14
ograit should pull from archive.ubuntu.com ... you could try another mirror see the manpage ...08:15
ogra(if its not a proxy issue)08:15
PetarisErr http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/main libfs6 2:1.0.0-0ubuntu208:16
Petaris  Error reading from server - read (104 Connection reset by peer)08:16
PetarisI'll give another mirror a try08:16
Petarisogra: Is there a list of mirrors about?08:17
ograsomewhere on the ubuntu.com page08:18
rodarvus(two letters code)08:18
rodarvusus.archive is a different machine from archive itself08:19
Petarisltsp-build-client --arch i386 --mirror http://us.archive.ubuntu.com08:21
Petaristhat doesn't work either08:22
rodarvusPetaris, these machines are on completely different networks - seems like something network-related on your side08:24
rodarvusfirewall, proxy authentication, etc?08:25
Petarisit uses apt so it shouldn't be a firewall issue08:25
Petaristhere is no proxy authentication08:25
PetarisI think its just my proxy goofing around08:26
Petarisseems to be working now08:26
Petarisappears to have finished08:29
Petarisis there something I have to do to tell the services ltsp uses to use the i386 chroot?08:31
ograPetaris, http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu08:35
ograyou need to add the toplevel path08:35
Petarisogra: ahh, I forgot the trailing /ubuntu08:36
Petarisogra: What about the chroot?  Will it just use the correct one?08:38
ograit will create one08:39
ograif you already have one, delete it first08:39
Amaranthogra: i think we're supposed to have a meeting or something right now :p08:45
Amaranthogra: no progress in the last 2 weeks, been taking a break08:45
ograAmaranth, well thats fine, youre aheady of schedule i think ... but dont slack to much :)08:46
ograwe need a written spec of what you are doing 08:46
ograand we should have a package asap, i'll make a public branch of your code and add packaging stuff there, you can merge that 08:48
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=== rodarvus goes get some coffee
mhzis there a meeting today?09:07
highvoltagemhz: yep, in about 53 minutes09:07
mhzhighvoltage: hey... thx09:07
LaserJockok, I think I'm going to get rid of most of the KDE stuff in dynamic-menus09:08
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jryerHow do I change my keyboard to Spanish? (So I can type Spanish chars) I have the Spanish language installed and selected.09:11
crimsunjryer: System> Preferences> Keyboard> Layouts> Add09:14
crimsunjryer: then click Ok, and then you'll probably want to move that selection higher in the 'Selected layouts' list09:15
jryerThank you thank you thank you crimsun. Now is there some way I can add a shortcut to flip back and forth english to spanish_09:16
mhzahora si funciona la ene09:17
mhzanyone here working with touchscreen?09:18
LaserJockogra: ok, so we want user -> group mapping in /etc/group, right?09:20
LaserJockand then we just need a user/group -> profile mapping09:20
ograsounds good09:20
LaserJockand the user/grouop -> profile can be done via Sabayon?09:21
LaserJockwe need to make it handle that anyway09:21
jryer, si pero acento, tilde no. Mauricio? Alquien sabe habilitar los acentos y tildes_ 09:22
jryerCan you use foreign language accents in Ubuntu or not?09:23
ogra ?09:23
jryerWhat is the channel for spanish_09:24
mhzfor #ubuntu-es09:25
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mhzor edubuntu related at #edubuntu-es09:25
crimsunjryer: secondary-click (right-click for you, perhaps?) the panel (bar) at the top of the screen, choose 'Add to panel', scroll down to the Utilities section, select the 'Keyboard Indicator', click Add, then cycle through the defined ones by primary-clicking the applet09:25
cberloAnyone have issues with LTSP not giving hostnames to the clients?09:27
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jryerThanks again crimsun now if I can get accents to work...09:28
crimsunjryer: I mapped my right Ctrl to 'Compose' by using System> Preferences> Keyboard> Layout Options> Compose key position> Right Ctrl is Compose09:30
crimsun, etc.09:31
jryercrimsun, I tried the mapping like you explained and still dont see accents. What am I doing wrong?09:36
crimsunjryer: where are you typing accented characters/09:37
jryerCrimsun, here in IRC and in Writer. I have an accent here but not sure how I did it...ssdffdddefefaaaaaa asdf09:39
crimsunto use Compose, press and hold the right Ctrl, then press one of the accent characters, then press the base letter09:40
crimsunor if it's easier, use discrete key presses and releases09:40
crimsunala, Compose + accent + letter09:40
jryercrimusn, 'oooooo''''' okay...I got it... Just didnt know it was the triple keypress. Thanks09:43
crimsunif you get stuck, there's always Applications> Accessories> Character Map09:43
mhzxmodmap /usr/share/xmodmap.es09:45
=== ogra applauds LaserJock extatically
ograright away09:50
ogragood job LaserJock 09:50
mhzbooh, jryer left09:51
ogra************* REMINDER edubuntu CC meeting in 10 mins in #ubuntu-meeting ****************09:52
=== mhz was falling asleep
=== mhz will get some strong black coffee
highvoltageyou mean, EC meeting?09:52
ograerr, indeed09:53
highvoltagewow, yes, good job LaserJock 09:53
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mhzLaserJock: no idea what ogra  and highvoltage are talking about but congrats! :D09:55
ogramhz, menu profiles spec09:55
highvoltagemhz: his spec got aproved, without hassle09:56
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crimsunmhz: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-dynamic-menus09:56
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ogramhz, it was a pretty tricky one becaue our discussions were somehow taken over by the kiosktool fraction 09:57
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ograhey AliasVegas, nice to see you around09:57
ogra************* REMINDER edubuntu and EC meeting in 3 mins in #ubuntu-meeting ****************09:57
highvoltagehi AliasVegas 09:57
cbx33sorry that was me09:57
cbx33I'vejust logged her on ready for the meeting :P09:57
highvoltagecbx33: AliasVegas is you?09:57
cbx33no but I just logged her on09:58
ograhighvoltage, the better half of him at least :P09:58
cbx33you tried grasynco yet ogra ?09:58
mhzooh, LaserJock excelente!09:58
spaceyhi there09:58
ograwe'll have a knots CD end of next week, then i'll try it :)09:58
spaceyEC meeting?09:59
ograthat too09:59
spaceyedubuntu council?09:59
spaceyor what is it09:59
cbx33it's ok it needs some work too09:59
spaceywhat will happen?09:59
spaceysomething exciting?09:59
spaceyagenda somewhere?09:59
cbx33check the topic09:59
ograwe'll meet, thats always exciting, dont miss it10:00
cbx33there's a link10:00
spaceyexciting and surprising ;)10:00
cbx33AliasVegas and I will both be using the same computer for a while10:00
ograoki, lets start10:00
cbx33so expect some swapping around10:00
rodarvuslets go10:00
=== spacey reads up a bit
sbalneavogra: One of the specs got kicked back to drafting.  Need me to do anything?10:01
ograsbalneav, which ? 10:01
LaserJockholy cow, I was just working on my spec10:01
LaserJockand wasn't paying attention to irc or my email :-)10:02
sbalneavthe nbd one10:02
sbalneavfully automatic swap server10:02
rodarvussbalneav, i plan to take a look at it after the meeting, but feel free to address mdz's comments before me if you want10:03
sbalneavI think it was keybuk who kicked it back.  Ill see what I can do.10:04
LaserJockis it ok if I still work on the spec after it is approved? I was doing a clean up when it was approved10:07
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rodarvusLaserJock, the purpose of the spec is to make it clear for anyone (not you) what the task is all about10:11
rodarvusso if you just make it more clear, it should be not a problem10:11
rodarvusof course you can not modify the "feature list" and expect everyone to be happy :P10:11
rodarvus(but that is the obvious part ;) )10:11
sbalneavWell, heading home for the day.10:14
sbalneavSee you all on tonight.10:14
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pygihey HedgeMage 10:21
ograpygi, missing the meeting ? 10:21
pygiogra, uh, it's now? :P10:21
HedgeMagepygi: yep10:22
ograrunning, yeah, we're at docs10:22
HedgeMagewe just metioned your absence10:22
pygisorry, I am very tired today :(10:22
pygi(had a trip and stuff)10:22
pygiI am there now10:22
pygiogra, sorry about that10:22
HedgeMagenp real life happens :)10:23
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=== mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage] by highvoltage
highvoltagebddebian, thanks :)10:34
bddebianNP :-)10:34
HedgeMagehehe :)10:34
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pygiAliasVegas, congrats !!!11:02
pygiHedgeMage, no, not you again :(11:03
LaserJockI guess that dynamic menus miniBOF can be cancelled, :-)11:09
LaserJockcya AliasVegas 11:09
=== jsgotangco checks if edubuntu survived the upgrade to edgy
rodarvusogra, I'd just like to ask how do we inform ubuntu-artwork about our decision?11:09
ograi'll mail11:10
rodarvusAliasVegas, also, it would be nice if you could get up to speed to what the ubuntu-artwork has planned for Edgy11:10
ograbut AliasVegas should do that too after i introduced her11:10
rodarvusubuntu artwork team even11:10
rodarvusogra, agreed11:10
jsgotangcoget subscribed to their list as well11:11
jsgotangcoor even to the artwork channel11:11
ograrodarvus, afaik they are not even thinking about edubuntu11:11
ograrodarvus, will be up to us11:11
rodarvusthats why we need to remember them of Edubuntu :)11:11
ogra(or better up to our artteam ;) )11:11
Burgworkthe ubuntu artwork team is fairly disorganized11:12
Burgworkmight be better just to say "there is now an edubuntu art team"11:12
ograwe have had many people coming along in this channel wanting to contribute stuff11:12
ograso i bet we could form an independent team over time11:12
ograhaving a lead and point of contact is only the first step :)11:13
mhzplus, my feeling is target people of edubuntu are very diff from any normal distro 11:13
ograthat too 11:13
ograwe're a NICHE product 11:13
rodarvusbut don't forget that at least someone from our team should be able to have an opinion on what they do WRT gnome artwork11:13
ogra(thats what i'm always told everywhere)11:13
mhzactually, edubuntu must seduce teachers, and students11:13
mhzogra: lol11:14
mhzbut we are11:14
ograwe fill the niche of place 52 on distrowatch :P11:14
jsgotangcois AliasVegas approved?11:14
jsgotangcoi will fix her LP application11:14
ograjsgotangco, yes, she is11:15
jsgotangcook thanks11:15
ograoh, i lied, place 5611:15
mhzjsgotangco: have you ever used touchscreen under linux?11:15
mhz(not the Zaurus)11:15
jsgotangcomhz: yes11:15
ogramhz, mjg59 did some work in that area for the laptop team11:15
mhzoh, okis11:16
ograbah, a 14h day and kdeedu is still not done ... sigh11:16
jsgotangcoLaserJock: congrats the spec is approved!11:16
LaserJockjsgotangco: heh, thanks. I'm still working on it :-)11:17
ograLaserJock, 4 times ... now i have something working to move the ubuntu patches over11:17
mhzogra: I have just been notifed that there is a Chilean funding for ICT on Education stuff...BUT Mauricio Hernandez can't apply. Only Universities and ICT companies :( 11:17
mhzMy last emails to mark never got any answer11:18
jsgotangcookay i will go back to bed and sleep some more11:18
mhzogra: could I CC you and ask you to bug him from me?11:18
ogranight jsgotangco 11:18
mhznn jsgotangco 11:18
ogramhz, wait a week, we'll have an educational manager soon11:18
mhzwhat you mean?11:19
rodarvusmhz, on the 12th will have a educational manager11:19
mhzyeah, I got that part :D11:19
rodarvus"ubuntu educational manager", I think is the name of the position11:19
ograthat will be the point of contact for such stuff11:19
ograhe'll directly report to mark, so asking him for such stuff should be the right way11:20
mhzoh, COOL!11:20
LaserJockogra: can you run over https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuDynamicMenus real quick, in particular the Implementation part?11:22
ogragah, i typoed11:33
ograin a welcome comment 11:33
=== ogra cries
LaserJockheh, oh well11:33
ogradont take me serious :)11:34
LaserJockpeople are usually quite forgiving around here, especially with typos :-)11:34
rodarvusogra, you have the lock on LTSPLoginAndSessionHandling, right?11:36
ogranot that i know of11:36
ograrodarvus, please explain to matt that we wont copy stuff around in chroots :P11:37
ograldm should be able to select between multiple servers at some point ... so it need to be a network service. else we'll have to reimplement everything once we go that path11:38
rodarvusI agree, but we have to make this point on the spec11:38
ograthe second point is just a formulation issue :)11:39
ograindeed it should read the file and only change the data in there if it differs :)11:39
=== ogra hunts down Keybuk to do the promised s-c-p review
=== Belathor [n=kyle@dpc6747211220.direcpc.com] has joined #edubuntu
=== cbx33 [n=pete@ubuntu/member/cbx33] has joined #edubuntu
=== HedgeMage peeks in here, too
cbx33hi al12:10
LaserJockwb cbx33 12:10
cbx33hy LaserJock 12:11
cbx33I have a big problem wondering if someone can help12:11
cbx33I had fedora instaled on a machine12:11

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