[04:40] <nixternal> a little OT, but i just found some of my first ever type of documentation.... SOP: Operations of the Mobile Fire Arms Range - United States Navy NAVSEAINST 8023.11 | CNETINST 1500.20C
[04:40] <nixternal> completed 10 years ago
[04:41] <rob> interesting, I've written several SOP's myself in the past
[04:41] <nixternal> it is funny..i was an E4 then, low ranking, and I wrote the first ever SOP for such a situation..and it is still in effect to this day
[04:42] <rob> heh
[04:42] <rob> unchanged?
[04:42] <nixternal> only thing that changed was the lead trap and cleaning it
[04:42] <rob> ah, cool
[04:46] <LaserJock> I helped write a Laser SOP for our lab, but that isn't as cool
[04:47] <nixternal> haha
[04:48] <nixternal> that is way cooler 
[04:48] <nixternal> LaserJock: sorry, but quit "humping the laser"
[04:48] <nixternal> it had to be done
[04:50] <LaserJock> yikes, not even a laser in sight
[04:50] <LaserJock> except for the cd burner
[04:50] <nixternal> haha
[07:01] <Madpilot> hi all
[07:03] <nixternal> hiya Madpilot
[07:03] <Madpilot> hi nixternal 
[07:03] <nixternal> any idea how to add an image like ubuntu-au did at https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-au
[07:03] <nixternal> im trying to do one for ubuntu-chicago
[07:04] <Madpilot> I think it's the "hackergotchi" link
[07:04] <Madpilot> yeah, it is
[07:04] <nixternal> hmm..i don't see where to do that with the team
[07:05] <Madpilot> on my user page, it's one of the links halfway down the blue panel on the left
[07:05] <nixternal> on the user page ya..but this is a team page
[07:07] <Madpilot> I've no idea how team pages differ, not being a team admin myself
[07:07] <Madpilot> you could always bug one of the .au team's admins and ask how they did it
[07:07] <nixternal> thats what i am planning on next 
[07:07] <nixternal> hehe
[07:08] <nixternal> gah.bimberi
[07:08] <nixternal> australians are running late tonight
[07:09] <nixternal> haha
[07:09] <nixternal> heya mpt
[07:09] <mpt> Good ... evening!
[07:11] <Burgundavia> http://ubuntu.ca/Edubuntu-casestudy.png
[07:11] <Burgundavia> thoughts?
[07:13] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: you got a lipsum generator somwhere?
[07:13] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, sure - let me find the URL for you
[07:13] <Madpilot> http://www.lipsum.com/
[07:14] <Madpilot> Nice front cover - where's the rest of it? ;)
[07:14] <Burgundavia> it would be a single page
[07:16] <Madpilot> ah, OK
[07:17] <Madpilot> in that case, tuck "Case Study" up with the Edubuntu name/logo - that's the title of the thing, after all
[07:24] <Burgundavia> ok, cut and paste is driving me nuts
[07:24] <Burgundavia> for some reason, epiphany is not pasting to inkscape
[07:25] <Madpilot> Inkscape has some known cut & paste bugs
[07:28] <Burgundavia> grumble
[07:29] <Burgundavia> grumble more as text importation fails to work
[07:30] <Burgundavia> but scribus has as interface that is only marginally better than the gimps
[07:30] <Burgundavia> in other words, far far inferior to that of inkscape
[07:40] <Burgundavia> look at that image again
[07:42] <Madpilot> nice
[07:42] <Madpilot> is that TuxLab logo really as low-res as it seems in that screenshot?
[07:42] <robotgeek> http://shiftingpixel.com/lightbox/ is the coolest greasemonkey extension
[07:42] <Burgundavia> yes, yes it is
[07:42] <Burgundavia> I grabbed it quickly
[07:43] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, can you scrounge up an SVG TuxLab image, or at least a high-res one?
[07:43] <Burgundavia> I will once, I write the actual text
[07:43] <Burgundavia> I put it there merely for illustrative purposes
[07:44] <Madpilot> good - the layout itself looks good, anyway
[07:44] <Burgundavia> I did copy it from nearly every case study out there
[07:45] <Burgundavia> back side is going to have text from that EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy thingy
[07:53] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, random layout point: first paragraphs of sections don't need to be indented, generally
[07:57] <Madpilot> so, Matt East challenged Michael Richter on -sounder to put up or shut up WRT the modem/getting online docs - wonder when we can expect Michael's first patch to the list? ;)
[08:48] <mvirkkil> I'm putting up a newer work-in-progress version of the docbook->moinmoin converter: http://users.tkk.fi/~mvirkkil/db2mm/
[08:49] <mvirkkil> It only supports converting single articles or single chapters, graphics don't work yet etc.
[08:50] <jsgotangco> i will check
[08:51] <nixternal> nice work on that btw mvirkkil
[08:54] <mvirkkil> nixternal: Thanks :)
[09:11] <robitaille> is that new?  http://ubuntuos.com/   Never heard of them until tonight
[09:13] <nixternal> robitaille: they have been up for about a month
[09:13] <nixternal> they did a Riddell podcast
[09:14] <nixternal> i don't approve of their site for one reason, i went on to check it out, and my daughter was on my lap, and their was a half naked woman and an a$$ in a g-string in the ad's up top
[09:14] <nixternal> my daughter is 10 and probably caught worse on tv, but still
[09:15] <nixternal> now they removed their ads
[09:15] <Madpilot> nixternal, adblocking is a wonderful thing - I didn't even know there were banners on that site
[09:15] <nixternal> there isn't any more..or i am ad blocking again
[09:15] <robitaille> you should block ads in your browser.  I didn't even knew they had an ad on their page :)
[09:15] <Madpilot> interesting read: http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2006/07/06/rethinking-community-documentation.html
[09:15] <nixternal> i just looked..it seems like they had enough complaints
[09:16] <nixternal> that looks like a good read
[09:17] <Madpilot> I've just bookmarked it to finish tomorrow - need sleep very soon here
[09:18] <nixternal> me too
[10:27] <mdke_> morning
[10:29] <Burgundavia> morning mdke_
[10:30] <jsgotangco> hello
[10:30] <Fujitsu> Evening.
[10:35] <mdke_> someone is trying to tell me something :/
[10:36] <Fujitsu> You cut off your tail! Self mutilation is not an option!
[10:36] <mvirkkil> mdke: hi
[10:37] <jsgotangco> thank you for using the ubuntu.com email spam service
[10:37] <Fujitsu> Hahahahah
[10:39] <mvirkkil> mdke: I "published" a version of the xslt:s with my additions. Still no support for graphics.
[10:44] <mdke> jsgotangco: nod
[10:44] <mdke> mvirkkil: right, nice
[10:47] <mvirkkil> mdke: I'll need to test it and develop it a bit further, but over the next few days I won't have much time for it. So I thought I'd put a snapshot out for the time being.
[10:48] <mvirkkil> it should map procedures to numberedlists, and variablelists to bulletlists
[10:48] <mvirkkil> jeffsch: --^
[10:50] <mdke> mvirkkil: I'll upload it to the repository if you send it to me
[10:51] <mpt> yo yo yo
[10:57] <jsgotangco> mdke: dapper-commercial gets reflected if you have dapper-updates and app-install-data is refreshed
[10:57] <jsgotangco> but yeah it wasn't clearly indicated
[10:57] <jsgotangco> its relatively new and was under discussion in paris
[10:57] <Burgundavia> mdke: I believe dapper-commercial is hosted on canonical servers, rather an Ubuntu ones (yes, there is not much difference)
[10:57] <jsgotangco> yes
[10:58] <jsgotangco> but nonetheless you can't get into dapper-commercial if you don't have the appropriate app-install-data
[11:01] <mdke> jsgotangco: only in gnome-app-install
[11:01] <mdke> Burgundavia: quite interesting that article which disapproves...
[11:01] <mdke> he has a point
[11:02] <jsgotangco> mdke: you're supposed to use g-a-i by default
[11:02] <mdke> jsgotangco: right, but no one does
[11:03] <mdke> and not adding it to apt is a significant problem
[11:03] <Burgundavia> I agree with mdke
[11:03] <mdke> dude, do you use gnome-app-install?
[11:03] <jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UpdateManagerEdgyRepo
[11:03] <mdke> to install EVERYTHING?
[11:03] <Burgundavia> not adding it to apt is a bizarre decision
[11:03] <jsgotangco> mdke: i patch to g-a-i? duh!
[11:03] <mdke> jsgotangco: so?
[11:04] <jsgotangco> your point?
[11:04] <mdke> jsgotangco: you can code on something and not use it to install things
[11:04] <Burgundavia> ultimately, things like Opera are not really going to hurt Ubuntu
[11:04] <crimsun> mdke: which article?
[11:04] <mdke> especially given that you can't install everything in it
[11:04] <jsgotangco> mdke: dude its not perfect but don't say it doesn't work
[11:04] <mpt> eh
[11:04] <mpt> Finally Opera shows up in g-a-i for me, but it's 8.5.1
[11:04] <mpt> I thought it was supposed to be version 9 :-/
[11:05] <mdke> crimsun: http://opensource.apress.com/article/44/opera-makes-ubuntu-sing-a-sad-song
[11:05] <crimsun> thanks
[11:05] <mdke> jsgotangco: I'm not saying it doesn't work
[11:05] <mdke> I'm saying most people don't use it
[11:05] <crimsun> 9.00-20060616.7  500 http://archive.canonical.com dapper-commercial/main Packages
[11:05] <jsgotangco> so its a waste of developer resource
[11:06] <mdke> jsgotangco: no, I'm simply saying there is little point adding opera to gnome-app-install, and not helping to include it in sources.list
[11:06] <mdke> especially if the repo exists
[11:06] <crimsun> you two are talking past each other
[11:06] <jsgotangco> dude you're not SUPPOSED to put anything in your sources.list by hand if you're using g-a-i
[11:07] <mdke> jsgotangco: you're intentionally missing my point, which is that loads of people don't use g-a-i
[11:07] <jsgotangco> give me a stat
[11:07] <mpt> >1 graphical package management program => madness
[11:07] <jsgotangco> im not missing the point
[11:07] <mdke> me, Burgundavia, mpt, crimsun 
[11:07] <mdke> right?
[11:07] <mpt> I used g-a-i to install a couple of games
[11:07] <mdke> me too
[11:07] <Burgundavia> same as well
[11:07] <mpt> because using synaptic to find games is awful
[11:08] <Burgundavia> I checked it out to see opera
[11:08] <crimsun> jsgotangco: he's not arguing that g-a-i is or isn't the proper way; he's lamenting a particularly common use case
[11:08] <crimsun> (hence you two talking past each other)
[11:08] <jsgotangco> sorry language barrier coming, i didnt understand what it meant
[11:09] <crimsun> both of your concerns are valid, but you're addressing different things :)
[11:09] <Burgundavia> we all agree that gai is the preferred method, however users have different ideas
[11:09] <Burgundavia> hence mdke's concern about opera only being easily available via gai
[11:09] <mdke> right
[11:10] <jsgotangco> app-data-install has all that data and opera wasn't there in the first place if it was, it should have been made easy
[11:10] <jsgotangco> hence a dapper-update was made on the said package
[11:10] <Burgundavia> but those who don't use gai have an issue
[11:10] <Burgundavia> there is no other graphical way to add it to your sources.list
[11:10] <mdke> jsgotangco: the repository exists (apparently), so it can be added to sources.list and made available in _other_ package managers too
[11:10] <jsgotangco> probably on purpose? i dunno, ask mdz he's the one who uploaded an updated app-install-data
[11:10] <crimsun> (this is a case where Debian pedigree can actually be a "detriment", since people tend to muck with sources.list regardless)
[11:11] <Burgundavia> and mucking with sources.list is known source of pain
[11:11] <mdke> it could easily have been added to software-properties
[11:11] <jsgotangco> feel free to comment on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UpdateManagerEdgyRepo
[11:11] <mvirkkil> mdke: It's up at http://users.tkk.fi/~mvirkkil/db2mm/db2mm-0.4/, I don't have access to anything except a browser and IRC at the moment.
[11:11] <jsgotangco> we made the mockup with a UI specialist
[11:11] <crimsun> I'm pretty guilty of it myself; I say "add the universe repo" et al.
[11:11] <rob> heh, I muck with it all the time, but then I don't use gai at all
[11:11] <jsgotangco> its already in the dev tree
[11:12] <mvirkkil> mdke: I was more like hoping to get some feedback on what you guys would still want to see implemented.
[11:14] <mpt> mvirkkil, implemented for what? (sorry for clowning in halfway through the conversation)
[11:15] <jsgotangco> hmm omnis studio is also in app-install-data-commercial
[11:15] <mdke> mvirkkil: that's great, I'll download it thanks
[11:15] <mdke> mpt: mvirkkil is working in the SOC moin<->docbook tools
[11:15] <mdke> in/on
[11:16] <mpt> oh, nothing to do with g-a-i then :-)
[11:17] <mdke> mvirkkil: do you want to tar it up for me? :)
[11:17] <mpt> I reported a bug on the Yelp style sheets yesterday saying "<varname> should be in italics, we're having to use <emphasis> instead", and got a reply back within a couple of hours saying "no, you should be using <replaceable>"
[11:18] <mdke> for what?
[11:18] <mpt> for things like <screen>apt-get install <replaceable>package-name</replaceable></screen>
[11:19] <mvirkkil> mdke: As I said, can't at the moment :/
[11:19] <mdke> mvirkkil: oh yeah. sorry
[11:19] <mvirkkil> mdke: I just put it up before I left home.
[11:20] <mpt> http://www.docbook.org/tdg/en/html/replaceable.html
[11:20] <mdke> mpt: got it
[11:21] <jsgotangco> interesting
[11:21] <mdke> mvirkkil: i'll put it at http://doc.ubuntu.com/~matt
[11:21] <mdke> now that I've found out public_html is enabled on that server >_<
[11:22] <jsgotangco> is that the svn server?
[11:22] <mdke> no, that's our server
[11:22] <mdke> mvirkkil: uploaded
[11:22] <mvirkkil> mpt: Any preferance what moin markup you want to have it as? 
[11:23] <mpt> mvirkkil, have what as?
[11:23] <mdke> mvirkkil: however it is with the nwalsh stylesheets is likely to be a good default
[11:23] <mpt> oh, various DocBook elements?
[11:24] <mpt> well, DocBook -> Moin will be lossy because DocBook is semantic while Moin is presentational
[11:24] <mvirkkil> mpt: yeah.
[11:24] <mdke> mpt: you can assume mvirkkil knows quite a lot about that sort of thing
[11:24] <mpt> :-)
[11:24] <mvirkkil> mpt: When I'm going from moin->docbook I'm doing a bit of trickery, to get some extra information.
[11:25] <mpt> mdke, if you've had a chance to look at my patch, how should I continue? Carry on with the other sections, or am I doing several things wrong?
[11:25] <mvirkkil> mpt: Or at least I'm planning to check if the first row of a table has all the texts bolded, and make it a heading row in docbook, etc.
[11:25] <mpt> mvirkkil, nifty!
[11:26] <mvirkkil> mpt: But now I'm focusing on basic functionality.
[11:26] <mpt> mvirkkil, and `foo` on a line by itself is probably <screen></screen> ...
[11:26] <mdke> mpt: I haven't yet. But I'd like to talk about any changes to conventions of using different tags and so on on the list if possible.
[11:26] <mvirkkil> mpt: well moin already has {{{ for codeblocks.
[11:26] <mpt> sure
[11:26] <mdke> we need to develop consistency and include some things like that in the styleguide
[11:26] <mvirkkil> mpt: But for example {{{#python will get mapped in to a programlisting, etc.
[11:26] <mpt> mvirkkil, true, but many are just a single line
[11:27] <mvirkkil> mpt: If its something that needs to be inline {{{hello}}} it gets mapped to code, at the moment.
[11:27] <mpt> mdke, I think the biggest issue is what structure we should be moving towards for a unified help
[11:27] <mvirkkil> mpt: If it's not inline, it gets mapped to screen or programlisting.
[11:28] <mpt> whether the Desktop Guide should embrace and extend everything, or have top-level documents called things like "Music & Media" and "Setting up a server"
[11:28] <mvirkkil> One of the niftier parts of the whole conversion, is that you can make structurally complex tables using the wikisyntax. Like cells spanning several columns, and/or rows. Alignment etc also works.
[11:28] <mpt> s/have/the various documents should be split into/
[11:29] <Fujitsu> mpt, you forgot the extinguish part.
[11:29] <Fujitsu> :O
[11:29] <Fujitsu> mpt is Microsoft!
[11:29] <mpt> :-(
[11:30] <Fujitsu> If you embrace, extend and extinguish, that's the only possibility!
[11:31] <mpt> I'll leave the extending to the spammers
[11:31] <Fujitsu> Bwahahaha.
[11:33] <mpt> Apple does a fair bit of embracing and extending too
[11:34] <Fujitsu> Yeah, but they don't extinguish too much.
[11:35] <mpt> Audion, Watson, Internet Explorer for Mac, Konfabulator
[11:35] <mpt> four examples that come to mind
[11:36] <jsgotangco> going to the mall bbl
[11:36] <mpt> though Internet Explorer for Mac is more to do with Microsoft taking their ball and going home
[11:39] <mpt> Watson is the most odious example, because Sherlock has been utterly neglected ever since
[11:42] <mdke> mpt: sure, that's a separate issue, we definitely need to get that sorted out quickly if it's an option for edgy
[11:43] <mdke> mpt: re the tag changes, if you could summarise the changes you've done and post to the list, that would be really helpful
[11:43] <mpt> ok
[11:43] <mdke> maybe include some at DocumentationTeam/DocbookTags
[11:44] <mdke> i have to disappear for a bit now, see you later
[11:45] <mpt> ok
[12:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> does ubuntu have any info on setting up nat/other ip forwarding? i'm trawling around trying to find info, so if not i'm willing to try and start a page
[01:01] <mpt> mdke, sent
[02:09] <mpt> http://ask.metafilter.com/mefi/41728
[05:47] <smitten> Hello.
[06:25] <smitten> I would like feedback on #337584 in the GNOME bugzilla..  It is an interface change to Yelp (for the better I hope).  Please respond on the bug or on the mailing list gnome-doc-devel-list@gnome.org
[06:25] <smitten> thanks