=== nixternal_ [n=nixterna@unaffiliated/nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob [i=Robert@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.rob] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke_ [n=matt@ubuntu/member/mdke] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jojopaderes [n=jojo@203.177.229.132] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt__ [n=mpt@203-173-177-223.bliink.ihug.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Fujitsu [n=Fujitsu@c211-28-181-26.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc === cosmolax [n=Cosmolax@219-68-130-176.adsl.dynamic.giga.net.tw] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:40] a little OT, but i just found some of my first ever type of documentation.... SOP: Operations of the Mobile Fire Arms Range - United States Navy NAVSEAINST 8023.11 | CNETINST 1500.20C [04:40] completed 10 years ago [04:41] interesting, I've written several SOP's myself in the past [04:41] it is funny..i was an E4 then, low ranking, and I wrote the first ever SOP for such a situation..and it is still in effect to this day [04:42] heh [04:42] unchanged? [04:42] only thing that changed was the lead trap and cleaning it [04:42] ah, cool [04:46] I helped write a Laser SOP for our lab, but that isn't as cool [04:47] haha [04:48] that is way cooler [04:48] LaserJock: sorry, but quit "humping the laser" [04:48] it had to be done [04:50] yikes, not even a laser in sight [04:50] except for the cd burner [04:50] haha === nixternal don't even want to know === newz2000 [n=matt@12-216-147-124.client.mchsi.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === newz2000 [n=matt@12-216-147-124.client.mchsi.com] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Talk] === newz2000 [n=matt@12-216-147-124.client.mchsi.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === newz2000 [n=matt@12-216-147-124.client.mchsi.com] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Talk] === cosmolax [n=Cosmolax@219-68-130-176.adsl.dynamic.giga.net.tw] has left #ubuntu-doc [] === Madpilot [n=brian@ubuntu/member/madpilot] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:01] hi all [07:03] hiya Madpilot [07:03] hi nixternal [07:03] any idea how to add an image like ubuntu-au did at https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-au [07:03] im trying to do one for ubuntu-chicago [07:04] I think it's the "hackergotchi" link [07:04] yeah, it is [07:04] hmm..i don't see where to do that with the team [07:05] on my user page, it's one of the links halfway down the blue panel on the left [07:05] on the user page ya..but this is a team page [07:07] I've no idea how team pages differ, not being a team admin myself === cosmolax [n=Cosmolax@219-68-130-176.adsl.dynamic.giga.net.tw] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:07] you could always bug one of the .au team's admins and ask how they did it [07:07] thats what i am planning on next [07:07] hehe [07:08] gah.bimberi [07:08] australians are running late tonight === mpt__ rubs his eyes [07:09] haha [07:09] heya mpt [07:09] Good ... evening! [07:11] http://ubuntu.ca/Edubuntu-casestudy.png [07:11] thoughts? [07:13] Madpilot: you got a lipsum generator somwhere? [07:13] Burgundavia, sure - let me find the URL for you [07:13] http://www.lipsum.com/ [07:14] Nice front cover - where's the rest of it? ;) [07:14] it would be a single page [07:16] ah, OK [07:17] in that case, tuck "Case Study" up with the Edubuntu name/logo - that's the title of the thing, after all === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:24] ok, cut and paste is driving me nuts [07:24] for some reason, epiphany is not pasting to inkscape [07:25] Inkscape has some known cut & paste bugs [07:28] grumble [07:29] grumble more as text importation fails to work [07:30] but scribus has as interface that is only marginally better than the gimps [07:30] in other words, far far inferior to that of inkscape [07:40] look at that image again [07:42] nice [07:42] is that TuxLab logo really as low-res as it seems in that screenshot? [07:42] http://shiftingpixel.com/lightbox/ is the coolest greasemonkey extension [07:42] yes, yes it is [07:42] I grabbed it quickly [07:43] Burgundavia, can you scrounge up an SVG TuxLab image, or at least a high-res one? [07:43] I will once, I write the actual text === cosmolax [n=Cosmolax@219-68-130-176.adsl.dynamic.giga.net.tw] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:43] I put it there merely for illustrative purposes [07:44] good - the layout itself looks good, anyway [07:44] I did copy it from nearly every case study out there [07:45] back side is going to have text from that EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy thingy === mpt_ [n=mpt@203-173-177-223.bliink.ihug.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:53] Burgundavia, random layout point: first paragraphs of sections don't need to be indented, generally [07:57] so, Matt East challenged Michael Richter on -sounder to put up or shut up WRT the modem/getting online docs - wonder when we can expect Michael's first patch to the list? ;) === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118] has joined #ubuntu-doc === cosmolax [n=Cosmolax@219-68-130-176.adsl.dynamic.giga.net.tw] has left #ubuntu-doc [] === klepas [n=klepas@ppp-37-124.grapevine.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc === robitaille [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:48] I'm putting up a newer work-in-progress version of the docbook->moinmoin converter: http://users.tkk.fi/~mvirkkil/db2mm/ [08:49] It only supports converting single articles or single chapters, graphics don't work yet etc. [08:50] i will check [08:51] nice work on that btw mvirkkil [08:54] nixternal: Thanks :) [09:11] is that new? http://ubuntuos.com/ Never heard of them until tonight [09:13] robitaille: they have been up for about a month [09:13] they did a Riddell podcast [09:14] i don't approve of their site for one reason, i went on to check it out, and my daughter was on my lap, and their was a half naked woman and an a$$ in a g-string in the ad's up top [09:14] my daughter is 10 and probably caught worse on tv, but still === rob [i=Robert@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.rob] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:15] now they removed their ads [09:15] nixternal, adblocking is a wonderful thing - I didn't even know there were banners on that site [09:15] there isn't any more..or i am ad blocking again [09:15] you should block ads in your browser. I didn't even knew they had an ad on their page :) [09:15] interesting read: http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2006/07/06/rethinking-community-documentation.html [09:15] i just looked..it seems like they had enough complaints [09:16] that looks like a good read [09:17] I've just bookmarked it to finish tomorrow - need sleep very soon here [09:18] me too === glatzor [n=sebi@ppp-82-135-83-247.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #ubuntu-doc === pygi [n=pygi@83-131-244-208.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt__ [n=mpt@203-173-177-223.bliink.ihug.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Fujitsu [n=Fujitsu@c211-28-181-26.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc === glatzor_ [n=sebi@ppp-82-135-83-247.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:27] morning [10:29] morning mdke_ [10:30] hello [10:30] Evening. === mdke_ wonders why he gets so much spam encouraging him to be a better lover [10:35] someone is trying to tell me something :/ === Fujitsu wonders the same. [10:36] You cut off your tail! Self mutilation is not an option! [10:36] mdke: hi [10:37] thank you for using the ubuntu.com email spam service [10:37] Hahahahah [10:39] mdke: I "published" a version of the xslt:s with my additions. Still no support for graphics. [10:44] jsgotangco: nod [10:44] mvirkkil: right, nice [10:47] mdke: I'll need to test it and develop it a bit further, but over the next few days I won't have much time for it. So I thought I'd put a snapshot out for the time being. [10:48] it should map procedures to numberedlists, and variablelists to bulletlists [10:48] jeffsch: --^ [10:50] mvirkkil: I'll upload it to the repository if you send it to me === mpt [n=mpt@203-173-177-223.bliink.ihug.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:51] yo yo yo === Fujitsu wonders why somebody like mpt would be saying that. [10:57] mdke: dapper-commercial gets reflected if you have dapper-updates and app-install-data is refreshed [10:57] but yeah it wasn't clearly indicated [10:57] its relatively new and was under discussion in paris [10:57] mdke: I believe dapper-commercial is hosted on canonical servers, rather an Ubuntu ones (yes, there is not much difference) [10:57] yes [10:58] but nonetheless you can't get into dapper-commercial if you don't have the appropriate app-install-data [11:01] jsgotangco: only in gnome-app-install [11:01] Burgundavia: quite interesting that article which disapproves... [11:01] he has a point [11:02] mdke: you're supposed to use g-a-i by default [11:02] jsgotangco: right, but no one does [11:03] and not adding it to apt is a significant problem === jsgotangco thinks its your issue not the majority of people [11:03] I agree with mdke [11:03] dude, do you use gnome-app-install? [11:03] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UpdateManagerEdgyRepo [11:03] to install EVERYTHING? [11:03] not adding it to apt is a bizarre decision [11:03] mdke: i patch to g-a-i? duh! [11:03] jsgotangco: so? [11:04] your point? === pygi [n=pygi@83-131-244-208.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:04] jsgotangco: you can code on something and not use it to install things [11:04] ultimately, things like Opera are not really going to hurt Ubuntu [11:04] mdke: which article? [11:04] especially given that you can't install everything in it [11:04] mdke: dude its not perfect but don't say it doesn't work [11:04] eh [11:04] Finally Opera shows up in g-a-i for me, but it's 8.5.1 [11:04] I thought it was supposed to be version 9 :-/ [11:05] crimsun: http://opensource.apress.com/article/44/opera-makes-ubuntu-sing-a-sad-song [11:05] thanks [11:05] jsgotangco: I'm not saying it doesn't work [11:05] I'm saying most people don't use it [11:05] 9.00-20060616.7 500 http://archive.canonical.com dapper-commercial/main Packages [11:05] so its a waste of developer resource [11:06] jsgotangco: no, I'm simply saying there is little point adding opera to gnome-app-install, and not helping to include it in sources.list [11:06] especially if the repo exists [11:06] you two are talking past each other [11:06] dude you're not SUPPOSED to put anything in your sources.list by hand if you're using g-a-i [11:07] jsgotangco: you're intentionally missing my point, which is that loads of people don't use g-a-i [11:07] give me a stat [11:07] >1 graphical package management program => madness [11:07] im not missing the point [11:07] me, Burgundavia, mpt, crimsun [11:07] right? === jsgotangco gives up [11:07] I used g-a-i to install a couple of games [11:07] me too [11:07] same as well [11:07] because using synaptic to find games is awful [11:08] I checked it out to see opera [11:08] jsgotangco: he's not arguing that g-a-i is or isn't the proper way; he's lamenting a particularly common use case [11:08] (hence you two talking past each other) [11:08] sorry language barrier coming, i didnt understand what it meant [11:09] both of your concerns are valid, but you're addressing different things :) [11:09] we all agree that gai is the preferred method, however users have different ideas [11:09] hence mdke's concern about opera only being easily available via gai [11:09] right [11:10] app-data-install has all that data and opera wasn't there in the first place if it was, it should have been made easy [11:10] hence a dapper-update was made on the said package [11:10] but those who don't use gai have an issue [11:10] there is no other graphical way to add it to your sources.list [11:10] jsgotangco: the repository exists (apparently), so it can be added to sources.list and made available in _other_ package managers too [11:10] probably on purpose? i dunno, ask mdz he's the one who uploaded an updated app-install-data [11:10] (this is a case where Debian pedigree can actually be a "detriment", since people tend to muck with sources.list regardless) [11:11] and mucking with sources.list is known source of pain [11:11] it could easily have been added to software-properties [11:11] feel free to comment on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UpdateManagerEdgyRepo [11:11] mdke: It's up at http://users.tkk.fi/~mvirkkil/db2mm/db2mm-0.4/, I don't have access to anything except a browser and IRC at the moment. [11:11] we made the mockup with a UI specialist [11:11] I'm pretty guilty of it myself; I say "add the universe repo" et al. [11:11] heh, I muck with it all the time, but then I don't use gai at all [11:11] its already in the dev tree [11:12] mdke: I was more like hoping to get some feedback on what you guys would still want to see implemented. === klepas [n=klepas@203-213-31-142.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:14] mvirkkil, implemented for what? (sorry for clowning in halfway through the conversation) [11:15] hmm omnis studio is also in app-install-data-commercial [11:15] mvirkkil: that's great, I'll download it thanks [11:15] mpt: mvirkkil is working in the SOC moin<->docbook tools [11:15] in/on [11:16] oh, nothing to do with g-a-i then :-) === mpt can't really comment, he doesn't know DocBook that well [11:17] mvirkkil: do you want to tar it up for me? :) [11:17] I reported a bug on the Yelp style sheets yesterday saying " should be in italics, we're having to use instead", and got a reply back within a couple of hours saying "no, you should be using " [11:18] for what? [11:18] for things like apt-get install package-name [11:19] mdke: As I said, can't at the moment :/ === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@195-23-238-131.nr.ip.pt] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:19] mvirkkil: oh yeah. sorry [11:19] mdke: I just put it up before I left home. [11:20] http://www.docbook.org/tdg/en/html/replaceable.html [11:20] mpt: got it [11:21] interesting [11:21] mvirkkil: i'll put it at http://doc.ubuntu.com/~matt [11:21] now that I've found out public_html is enabled on that server >_< [11:22] is that the svn server? [11:22] no, that's our server [11:22] mvirkkil: uploaded === jsgotangco lost his access to it already [11:22] mpt: Any preferance what moin markup you want to have it as? [11:23] mvirkkil, have what as? [11:23] mvirkkil: however it is with the nwalsh stylesheets is likely to be a good default [11:23] oh, various DocBook elements? [11:24] well, DocBook -> Moin will be lossy because DocBook is semantic while Moin is presentational [11:24] mpt: yeah. [11:24] mpt: you can assume mvirkkil knows quite a lot about that sort of thing [11:24] :-) [11:24] mpt: When I'm going from moin->docbook I'm doing a bit of trickery, to get some extra information. [11:25] mdke, if you've had a chance to look at my patch, how should I continue? Carry on with the other sections, or am I doing several things wrong? === pygi [n=pygi@83-131-244-208.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:25] mpt: Or at least I'm planning to check if the first row of a table has all the texts bolded, and make it a heading row in docbook, etc. [11:25] mvirkkil, nifty! [11:26] mpt: But now I'm focusing on basic functionality. [11:26] mvirkkil, and `foo` on a line by itself is probably ... [11:26] mpt: I haven't yet. But I'd like to talk about any changes to conventions of using different tags and so on on the list if possible. [11:26] mpt: well moin already has {{{ for codeblocks. [11:26] sure [11:26] we need to develop consistency and include some things like that in the styleguide [11:26] mpt: But for example {{{#python will get mapped in to a programlisting, etc. [11:26] mvirkkil, true, but many are just a single line === mdke goes for a shower [11:27] mpt: If its something that needs to be inline {{{hello}}} it gets mapped to code, at the moment. [11:27] mdke, I think the biggest issue is what structure we should be moving towards for a unified help [11:27] mpt: If it's not inline, it gets mapped to screen or programlisting. [11:28] whether the Desktop Guide should embrace and extend everything, or have top-level documents called things like "Music & Media" and "Setting up a server" [11:28] One of the niftier parts of the whole conversion, is that you can make structurally complex tables using the wikisyntax. Like cells spanning several columns, and/or rows. Alignment etc also works. [11:28] s/have/the various documents should be split into/ [11:29] mpt, you forgot the extinguish part. === mpt extinguishes Fujitsu [11:29] :O [11:29] mpt is Microsoft! [11:29] :-( [11:30] If you embrace, extend and extinguish, that's the only possibility! === mpt embraces Fujitsu [11:31] I'll leave the extending to the spammers [11:31] Bwahahaha. [11:33] Apple does a fair bit of embracing and extending too [11:34] Yeah, but they don't extinguish too much. === glatzor [n=sebi@ppp-82-135-83-247.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:35] Audion, Watson, Internet Explorer for Mac, Konfabulator [11:35] four examples that come to mind [11:36] going to the mall bbl [11:36] though Internet Explorer for Mac is more to do with Microsoft taking their ball and going home === joachim-n [n=joachim@ACBDF483.ipt.aol.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:39] Watson is the most odious example, because Sherlock has been utterly neglected ever since [11:42] mpt: sure, that's a separate issue, we definitely need to get that sorted out quickly if it's an option for edgy [11:43] mpt: re the tag changes, if you could summarise the changes you've done and post to the list, that would be really helpful [11:43] ok [11:43] maybe include some at DocumentationTeam/DocbookTags [11:44] i have to disappear for a bit now, see you later === dsas [n=dean@host86-129-19-59.range86-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:45] ok === ompaul [n=ompaul@ubuntu/member/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-doc === pygi_ [n=pygi@83-131-241-239.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:47] does ubuntu have any info on setting up nat/other ip forwarding? i'm trawling around trying to find info, so if not i'm willing to try and start a page === jd_ [n=jd@wikipedia/Meanos] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:01] mdke, sent === cosmolax [n=Cosmolax@219-68-130-176.adsl.dynamic.giga.net.tw] has joined #ubuntu-doc === pygi [n=pygi@83-131-231-79.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:09] http://ask.metafilter.com/mefi/41728 === cosmolax is now known as cosmolax_ === cosmolax_ is now known as cosmolax === k [n=k@d235-163-98.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jojopaderes [n=jojo@203.177.231.252] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke_ [n=matt@ubuntu/member/mdke] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jojopaderes [n=jojo@203.177.231.252] has joined #ubuntu-doc === cosmolax [n=Cosmolax@219-68-130-176.adsl.dynamic.giga.net.tw] has joined #ubuntu-doc === cosmolax [n=Cosmolax@219-68-130-176.adsl.dynamic.giga.net.tw] has left #ubuntu-doc [] === mdke [n=matt@ubuntu/member/mdke] has joined #ubuntu-doc === alamba [n=alamba@195.229.243.211] has joined #ubuntu-doc === pygi [n=pygi@83-131-249-37.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jojopaderes [n=jojo@203.177.231.252] has joined #ubuntu-doc === gaz00 [n=gaz00@S01060015e96c00db.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jojopaderes [n=jojo@203.177.231.252] has joined #ubuntu-doc === pygi_ [n=pygi@83-131-237-233.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-doc === gaz00 [n=gaz00@S01060015e96c00db.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === pygi [n=pygi@83-131-237-233.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jojopaderes [n=jojo@203.177.231.252] has joined #ubuntu-doc === smitten [n=smitten@c-67-176-37-213.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:47] Hello. === jojopaderes [n=jojo@203.177.231.252] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:25] I would like feedback on #337584 in the GNOME bugzilla.. It is an interface change to Yelp (for the better I hope). Please respond on the bug or on the mailing list gnome-doc-devel-list@gnome.org [06:25] thanks === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@195-23-238-208.nr.ip.pt] has joined #ubuntu-doc === sfair [n=sfair@dma03.feg.unesp.br] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-doc === sfair [n=sfair@dma03.feg.unesp.br] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Aumentando] === tuxmaniac [n=aanjhan@unaffiliated/tuxmaniac] has joined #ubuntu-doc === claude [n=claude@200.124.77.83.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke_ [n=matt@ubuntu/member/mdke] has joined #ubuntu-doc === pygi [n=pygi@83-131-247-62.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jd_ [n=jd@wikipedia/Meanos] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jd_ [n=jd@wikipedia/Meanos] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jd_ [n=jd@wikipedia/Meanos] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jd_ [n=jd@wikipedia/Meanos] has joined #ubuntu-doc === gaz00 [n=gaz00@S01060015e96c00db.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jd_ [n=jd@wikipedia/Meanos] has joined #ubuntu-doc === claude [n=claude@200.124.77.83.cust.bluewin.ch] has left #ubuntu-doc [] === gaz00 [n=gaz00@S01060015e96c00db.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === gaz00 [n=gaz00@S01060015e96c00db.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === gaz00 [n=gaz00@S01060015e96c00db.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === theCore [n=alex@modemcable240.218-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #ubuntu-doc