[03:12] <Plug> Hmm.
[03:12] <Plug> Trying to follow the packaging guide on using pbuilder.
[03:13] <Plug> It's a bit lacking.  Seems like it was tacked on without much forethought, as it's not really used throughout the document
[03:13] <Plug> also, suggesting source, dh_make and cdbs - can we pick one and use it throughout?
[03:25] <rob> its important to know all methods imo
[03:25] <rob> but yes, the guide needs lots of love
[03:25] <Plug> perhaps as appendices
[03:25] <Plug> I'm having a go at some packaging using it now
[03:26] <Plug> I'll be happy to do a spot of editing at the end
[03:26] <rob> be aware if your setting up a chroot that there is a problem with the locales section
[03:27] <rob> you need to also install language-pack-(some country code) to set them up correctly
[03:28] <nixternal> if you want the best input on the packaging guide, crimsun will be the one on that...he knows every inch of packaging
[03:28] <rob> yeah
[03:28] <nixternal> pbuilder and dh_make do the same thing, but dh_make is for packages that haven't been debianized...and pbuilder is
[03:29] <rob> I'd really like to see all the motu guys give it a once over and make suggestions, if they can find the time
[03:29] <nixternal> i followed the packaging guide and had no problem what so ever...it gives you everything you need to know in order to understand packaging and get going
[03:29] <Plug> I'm going to have debianize the package myself, make sure I get the deps right
[03:29] <Plug> _then_ build under pbuilder
[03:29] <Plug> so I have to install the -dev packages twice
[03:29] <Plug> so what I really want is a chroot, I guess
[03:30] <rob> yes, but I found myself having to seek addtional information after reading the packaging guide for a few things
[03:30] <rob> its all on the wiki if you look though
[03:30] <nixternal> that is what #ubuntu-motu is for..plus half the time crimsun ansered my questions in a matter of seconds
[03:30] <nixternal> hiya Madpilot
[03:30] <Madpilot> hi nixternal 
[03:31] <nixternal> i am having one heck of a time trying to get a ubuntu-list setup for the Chicago LoCo team...nobody replies to me ;(
[03:37] <LaserJock> nixternal: dh_make and pbuilder don't do the same thing at all ;-)
[03:37] <LaserJock> Plug: and if you want to suggest things for the Packaging Guide email the ubuntu-doc list and I'll look into it
[03:38] <nixternal> well..i did say that wrong...you run dh_make prior to pbuilder
[03:38] <Plug> LaserJock: I'll be in touch, thanks
[03:38] <nixternal> dh_make is a debianizer script, and pbuilder is the package builder
[10:42] <mdke> nixternal_: you mailed mailman@lists?
[10:51] <Burgundavia> nixternal_: the person you need to speak with is jdub
[10:56] <mdke> mpt: here?
[11:09] <mpt> mdke, vaguely
[11:09] <mdke> mpt: just looking over your patch, is good stuff.
[11:09] <mpt> I'll be paying more attention in 20min or so
[11:09] <mpt> cool
[11:10] <mdke> there are a few minor things I've noticed, and one or two things I think should be discussed as a team
[11:10] <mdke> the language changes are all nice
[11:21] <mpt> ok, back
[11:23] <mpt> I probably made dozens of mistakes, I wasn't entirely conscious at the time :-)
[11:24] <crimsun> impressive for only partly conscious.
[11:24] <mdke> mpt: has the menu entry for alacarte changed in edgy?
[11:25] <mpt> No, I'm using Dapper, and I've never seen it called "A La Carte"
[11:25] <mdke> mpt: look in the menu
[11:25] <mpt> I did, before changing it
[11:26] <mdke> what's the menu entry?
[11:26] <mdke> on my system it is "Alacarte Menu Editor"
[11:27] <mpt_> grrr
[11:27] <mpt_> mdke: <mpt> "Applications Menu Editor"
[11:27] <mdke> how odd
[11:27] <mpt_> want a screenshot? :-)
[11:27] <mdke> why is it different on my system?
[11:27] <mdke> no, i believe you
[11:30] <mdke> well, if that is the default menu entry, it's certainly an improvement
[11:30] <mdke> but it's not like that on my system, for some reason
[11:30] <mpt__> Mine's an upgrade from 5.10, not a fresh install, if that makes any difference
[11:30] <mdke> me too, iirc
[11:31] <mdke> mpt_: the only serious thing was removing much of the preface - I agree that is a good idea if this is supposed to be on-screen help, although if it remains a book we'll want to put it back, I think
[11:32] <mpt__> mdke, yes, maybe there should be a divergence
[11:33] <mpt> whee
[11:34] <mpt> Possibly the on-screen help would be a clean subset (on the paragraph level) of the books, but possibly not
[11:35] <mpt> hmmmmm
[11:35] <mpt> Where should documents about the development of the help go? wiki.ubuntu.com, or help.ubuntu.com? :-)
[11:41] <mdke> mpt: like a spec? On wiki.ubuntu.com
[11:42] <mdke> preferably under DocumentationTeam/
[11:46] <mdke> mpt__: is "Disks Manager" another menu entry that I don't have?
[11:50] <Burgundavia> mdke: system--admin--disks
[11:51] <mdke> Burgundavia: that's what I have too
[11:51] <mdke> mpt__: why "Disks Manager"? 
[11:52] <mdke> ah, I see, that's what it's called once you open it, fine
[12:04] <melodie> bonjour
[12:09] <mpt_> kia ora
[12:11] <mdke> mpt_: ok, I've replied on the list, have to go now
[12:11] <mpt_> thanks mdke
[12:12] <mdke> thank _you_
[12:14] <melodie> hello mdke, 
[12:15] <melodie> mdke what about doing a '/back' to appear present ? :D
[12:16] <melodie> mdke, it seems you have to go, I was coming to question you : when are you back ?
[02:07] <mpt_> mdke, maybe you installed A La Carte yourself before ubuntu-desktop did?
[02:07] <mpt_> that way the original menu entry wouldn't have been overwritten
[02:10] <dsas> mpt_: I thought it got changed from "applications menu editor" when it got the ability to edit the "system" menu too. I could be completely wrong though.
[02:12] <mpt_> I have an unmodified test account, where instead of being Applications > Accessories > Applications Menu Editor, it's Applications > System Tools > Applications Menu Editor
[02:12] <mpt_> hmmm, that's probably an old account
[02:16] <mpt_> holy crap
[02:16] <mpt_> I get an ugly theme, dozens of error alerts, and "Computer" and "Trash" icons on my desktop
[02:17] <mpt_> and no panels
[02:17] <mpt_> grrrrrrreat
[02:18] <mpt_> How do I log out without any panels? :-/
[02:19] <dsas> drop to a tty and kill the other session
[02:19] <dsas> or that.
[02:19] <mpt_> there is no tty
[02:20] <mpt_> er, profs
[02:29] <mpt_> whoo
[02:29] <mpt_> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=68663&action=view
[02:32] <mpt_> mdke, updated patch sent
[02:37] <mdke> mpt_: ok, thanks
[02:37] <mdke> I moved to thunderbird myself
[02:40] <mpt_> Thunderbird's ok, except for composing messages
[02:40] <mpt_> Evolution's ok for composing messages, except for handling quoted text, but it's annoying for everything else
[02:41] <mdke> I quite like evolution's quote handling
[02:41] <mdke> I like when you cut a line in half in a quote and it keeps the right symbol, unlike TB
[02:41] <mpt_> yes, but >s still disappear when I get too close to them
[02:41] <mpt_> and there's no keyboard combo for quoting/dequoting
[02:42] <mpt_> hmm, maybe nobody's ever reported that ...
[02:43] <mdke> the thing that made me move away from evolution is that almost none of the actions I constantly use for threaded messages work properly
[02:43] <mdke> collapse all threads, keyboard combos for expanding single thread, etc etc
[02:44] <mpt_> Not understanding the concept of a Trash folder is a deal-breaker for me, too
[02:44] <mdke> heh, ctrl S not saving in draft annots me too
[02:44] <mdke> annoys*
[02:46] <mpt_> oh yeah
[02:48] <mpt_> I know, let's whine about mail clients :-)
[02:50] <jsgotangco> hey
[02:50] <mdke> hi jsgotangco 
[02:50] <jsgotangco> hello
[02:51] <mdke> mpt_: I've applied your patch now, and replied on the list. I'm off for lunch
[02:51] <mdke> thanks for that
[02:54] <mpt_> thanks mdke
[04:57] <jrib> Does anyone know what happened to hardware support lists?  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SupportedHardware links to a page that no longer exists and I can't seem to find the lists on my own
[05:03] <mdke_> jrib: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport
[05:03] <jjesse> monring :)
[05:03] <mdke_> hi jjesse 
[05:05] <jrib> mdke_: hmm, thanks.  How come the title search doesn't turn that up?  Does it only search things under huc/community?
[05:06] <mdke_> jrib: yes
[05:06] <jrib> mdke_: and of course my second question is what is the right way to fix the link on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SupportedHardware? :)
[05:07] <mdke_> jrib: refresh the page, and see what I did.
[05:15] <jrib> mdke_: k, while reading https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UserDocumentation it has that same hardware link that's broken.  Is it possible to setup a redirect or does that just create clutter and I should just correct this page too like you did the one before?
[05:17] <mdke_> jrib: I think we should fix the link to point to the other wiki. But it might be worth doing a redirect if there are lots of those broken links, let's see
[05:18] <mdke_> no, there aren't many such links
[05:18] <jrib> mdke_: ok, I'll take care of this one
[05:18] <mdke_> thanks
[08:36] <linuxmonkey> should we add the commercial repo's in the repo's howto?
[09:24] <Burgundavia> linuxmonkey: probably