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zulneed to get dinner bbl12:08
mdzzul: backing out your patch and building with gcc-4.0 still gives me a broken grub (this one with weird corruption of the menu commands)12:10
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mdzoddly enough, I can boot fine with this one if I use the grub command line rather than the menu12:11
jdubmdz: current edgy grub is b0rk, or is this pre-upload testing?12:11
mdzjdub: the former12:11
zulhave you tried removing the diskless boot stuff?12:12
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jdubmdz: thanks 8)12:12
mdzzul: not yet12:17
mdzzul: I'm trying dapper grub + your quiet patch with gcc-4.012:21
mdzzul: ok, that works12:21
mdzso your patch does not appear to be at fault12:21
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zulwell thats a good thing ;)12:22
mdzzul: did you test this whole package before uploading it?12:22
zulyes i did...i didnt have the same problems12:22
mdzthat is, did you test your patch with the merged grub12:22
mdzbut you can confirm the problem now, yes12:22
zulcorrect...but i didnt run update-grub before i ran grub-install12:23
mdzI didn't try 0.97-11ubuntu112:23
mdzzul: surely that shouldn't matter12:24
mdzit breaks in the same way regardless of whether the quiet option is used or not12:24
zulhold on a  sec..12:25
zuli just want to try something12:26
mdzI'm trying reverting cvs-sync12:27
mdzthen I'll try disabling netboot12:27
mdzone of those should be at fault12:27
zulmdz: i have modified quiet.diff so the GNU/GRUB is in the menu reverted the diskless client and i was able to boot12:33
zuland i reverted the change from the update-grub as well12:34
mdzzul: looks like it was the netboot stuff12:35
zulill revert the netboot stuff after i come back from dinner is that ok?12:35
mdzzul: now we just need to do something about the fact that update-grub will break the boot12:36
mdzzul: I'll take care of reverting the netboot stuff12:36
zuli reverted the update-grub for quiet as well..but i need to go out since my wife is starting to get upset, bbl12:37
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mdzzul: should be all set now01:19
jdubmdz: shouldn't you be out enjoying the last sun you'll see for a long time? :)01:20
=== jdub figures it's not actually sunny atm
mdzjdub: it is sunny and 93F01:20
mdzand I'm 20 minutes late for a barbecue01:20
jduboh, it's mid afternoon01:21
mdzbut I knew that if grub wasn't fixed, there would be a kernel upload or something which would stop nearly all edgy systems from booting01:21
mdzthis would be widely recognized as a bad thing01:21
mdzexcept by the powerpc users, who would have a nice chuckle01:22
mdzall 5 of them01:22
=== jdub hugs mdz
jdubstuck fixing grub merges on sunday, and suffering the torment of going to a barbecue but not eating meat - horror!01:23
mdzit turned out it wasn't the merge, but an opportunistic feature enhancement bundled with the upload (enabling diskless support)01:24
mdzwhich used to work fine, but now seems to completely break grub01:24
jdub^ macbook isight on linux :)01:29
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bddebianWho is responsible for the merges pages?01:33
bddebianI was afraid of that01:36
bddebianBTW, Hi tseng :)01:37
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jdubhrm, how do i request an ignore-my-merge sync? ping elmo?02:14
bddebianYou just want a straight sync?02:14
bddebianJust file a sync request on LP02:16
jdubhrm, ok02:17
jdubis there a wiki page about this?02:17
bddebianNot that I know of.  Just file a bug on LP request sync of <package> <version> from Debian <unstable,experimental> and subscribe ubuntu-archive02:18
slomo_jdub: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources02:19
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slomo_there's a section about syncs02:19
jdubslomo_: thanks02:19
sladenjdub: file a bug against the package and subscribe ubuntu-archive02:20
bddebianI get no respect :-)02:21
jdubslomo pointed me to Actual Documentation02:21
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thierrynhi, I'm looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto and I see some big mistake in it... and it doesn't work for me... anyone could help me a bit?02:29
bddebianthierryn: What's the problem?02:29
bddebianThough I am apparently unqualified to answer :-)02:29
thierrynI'm on dapper, I do "sudo pbuilder create" then "sudo pbuilder build my-app.dsc" and it output this :02:30
zulmdz: sorry about that02:31
thierrynW: /home/thierry/.pbuilderrc does not exist02:31
thierrynpbuilder-buildpackage/i386 $Id: pbuilder-buildpackage-funcs,v 1.16 2005/06/03 12:07:39 dancer Exp $02:31
thierryn$Id: pbuilder-buildpackage,v 1.113 2005/06/25 06:27:42 dancer Exp $02:31
thierrynCurrent time: Mon Jul 10 00:23:46 UTC 200602:31
thierrynpbuilder-time-stamp: 115249102602:31
thierrynBuilding the build Environment02:31
thierryn -> extracting base tarball [/var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz] 02:31
thierrynE: failed to find /var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz, have you done <pbuilder create> to create your base tarball yet?02:31
thierrynsorry for the spam02:31
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bddebianWow, hey infinity02:32
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bddebianthierryn: Does the base.tgz exist?02:33
bddebianAnd have you checked your /etc/pbuilder/pbuilderrc?02:33
thierrynho ok found the problem02:33
thierrynwhen I do pbuilder create I get:02:34
thierrynThe following packages have unmet dependencies:02:34
thierryn  aptitude: Depends: libsigc++-2.0-0c2a (>= 2.0.2) but it is not installed02:34
thierryn  gnupg: Depends: libreadline5 (>= 5.1) but it is not installed02:34
thierryn  libsasl2: Depends: libdb4.2 but it is not installed02:34
thierryn  whiptail: Depends: libnewt0.52 (>= 0.52.2) but it is not installed02:34
bddebianYou get that error on create?02:35
bddebianDo you have debootstrap installed?02:36
bddebianWhat happens if you do 'sudo pbuilder create --distribution dapper' ?  Anything different?02:37
thierrynE: No such script: /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/dapper02:39
thierrynho im in a chroot<02:39
thierrynbut its been a long time since a used it, dont know if its edgy or dapper chroot02:41
bddebianCheck your sources.list?02:41
bddebian /etc/apt/sources.list02:43
gnomefreakthierryn: those look like edgy errors not so much dapper02:43
bddebianthierryn: Did we lose you? :-)02:54
thierrynno no fixing sources.list02:55
bddebianAh :-)02:55
thierrynha great, the chroot was breezy, that was the problem 02:58
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thierrynis edgy repositories ready? I mean, can I create a edgy chroot03:01
jdubthierryn: yes03:02
jdub(no idea if debootstrap will successfully create one though)03:02
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infinityIt should.03:03
thierrynjdub : k03:03
bddebianthierryn: Can't you just dist-upgrade your existing chroot?03:03
jdubhi infinity 03:04
jdubinfinity: how was your break?03:04
infinityjdub: Good until it wasn't.  See warthogs.03:04
jdubinfinity: suck! :|03:05
infinityjdub: I'm just trying to kill a few thousand messages of email backlog before I go back to bed. :/03:05
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Hobbseehi all03:48
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=== imbrandon prods to see if any canonical employees are alive , got justa quick question
Hobbseeheya jdub!06:31
jdubmorning Hobbsee 06:31
imbrandonmoins jdub, hey i was wondering whom to prod about getting skype 1.3 pkg in ubuntu-commercial repos ? or if there even WAS someone to prod about it06:32
jdubskype has their own repository06:34
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imbrandoni realize this but a uniform place for commercial software would be nice since they ahve obviously started it06:37
neuralisjdub: http://solarsail.hcs.harvard.edu/~krstic/jdub.jpg06:56
Hobbseeneuralis: loosk just like him to me :P06:58
neuralisHobbsee: it captures the essence of jdub well.06:58
Hobbseehehe, indeed06:58
jsgotangcooh my06:59
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Eleafhi ;p07:01
Hobbseehey Eleaf 07:01
EleafI need to know what gtk method or widget is used whenever you change the volume with the keyboard and that volume item comes up in the middle of the desktop and how it is called ;p.07:03
neuralisEleaf: this is not the appropriate channel. try #gtk.07:04
Eleafthere is 8 people there, I cannot expect a response in my timeframe07:05
neuralisEleaf: that doesn't mean this channel becomes any more appropriate for your question.07:05
jdubEleaf: try #gnome-hackers on gimpnet07:05
jdubneuralis: try to give helpful redirection dude07:06
neuralisjdub: #gtk was all that came to mind.07:06
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jdubneuralis: the underlying toolkit five levels down from the item the question was about? not wildly useful07:07
jdubEleaf: gnome-settings-daemon handles those keys - #g-h for more discussion would be best07:07
EleafThanks to both of you07:07
Eleafokay jdub 07:08
neuralisjdub: huh? he wanted help identifying a gtk widget; i'm not sure how you see this as five levels removed from gtk07:09
jdubneuralis: the developers of the toolkit are not going to be entirely helpful with an implementation detail from one of their user's applications07:10
neuralisjdub: 'how do you draw a small floating window with gtk' seems pretty generic to me. anyway, doesn't matter.07:11
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fabbioneGOOOOOOD MORNING!07:15
Hobbseehey fabbione!07:15
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fabbioneHobbsee: intercontinental icecubes?07:16
Hobbseefabbione: of course :)07:16
sbalneavnight all07:17
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=== raphink opens an eye and waves
Hobbseehey raphink 07:22
raphinkhi Hobbsee07:22
=== Hobbsee wont throw icecubes at raphink. she wants something from him :P
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Hobbseeraphink: please approve https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/netatalk/+bug/5248807:23
UbugtuMalone bug 52488 in netatalk "[Edgy MoM]  Please sync netatalk 2.0.3-4 from Debian Sid" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  07:24
Hobbseethat's all, for the moment :)07:24
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Hobbseeraphink: bleh.  maybe those icecubes do need to be thrown at you then.07:24
=== fabbione sighs
fabbionebug #5243107:26
UbugtuMalone bug 52431 in libxrender "libXrender.la" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5243107:26
fabbionethis is so no07:26
Hobbseefabbione: mind pointing me to somewhere as to why it isnt?  i'm curious07:27
fabbioneHobbsee: google for why .la files should die07:27
Hobbseefabbione: will do07:27
fabbionethere have been several threads/flamewars/nuclearexplosions07:28
Hobbseefabbione: hehe, right07:28
fabbioneholy crusades started because of .la files!07:28
Hobbseeoh scary!07:29
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raphinkthe main problem in .la is .hollywood07:31
raphinkHobbsee: there, done07:32
Hobbseeraphink: thankyou :)07:32
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pittiGood morning07:51
Hobbseehey pitti!07:51
pittihi Hobbsee 07:57
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pittifabbione: do you remember why squid only suggests the snakeoil SSL cert in the documentation and does not actually use it by default?08:44
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fabbionepitti: i think because squid can do some ssl operations but there is no real gain with the snakeoil08:44
pittifabbione: I'm currently writing a debian bug (since this documentation change is our only diff), so I'd like to write some justification :)08:47
fabbionepitti: i will need to look into it again08:47
fabbionepitti: do you think it can wait a bit or is it urgent?08:47
pittifabbione: ok, thanks!08:47
fabbionei am in the middle of merging xorg-server08:47
pittifabbione: no, not urgent at all; I just postpone the mail08:48
fabbioneok thanks08:48
pittixorg> rock :)08:48
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fabbionethis is so going to blow up09:06
fabbionewho was doing mesa merge?09:06
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pittifabbione: I'm not (it's assigned to me, but I only fixed the POT file; I have no clue about the package)09:13
fabbionepitti: ok09:14
fabbionei can workaround it for now, but once that merged we need to remember to do another xorg-server uplaod09:14
fabbioneit changes a B-D09:14
Hobbseehey sivang 09:18
sivanghey Hobbsee 09:19
pygisivang, :)09:21
sivanghi pygi 09:21
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dholbachgood morning09:22
pygimornin' dholbach 09:23
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dholbachhey pygi09:24
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pittisivang: hey10:12
sivangpitti: Hi Martin! how are you ?10:13
pittisivang: pretty fine, and you?10:13
pittisivang: the weekend was full of soccer watching and b-day celebration (of my grandma)10:13
pittisivang: do you think you can merge and test culmus?10:14
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sivangpitti: I talked about it with Colin, he told me that we should better wait for when x-sync/merge is over, since then culmus will turn into just a sync, but if you want me to do it now, I can ofcourse.10:16
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pittisivang: oh, no, that makes sense10:16
sivangpitti: he said that once X is done, it could get synced no fuss, since he checked and the changes are due to X stuff changing (paths, etc)10:17
pittisivang: *nod*10:18
=== pitti grabs logcheck merge
sivangpitti: re Weekend, although not much soccer watching (no TV in my apartment) we went out for some walking around the city, and watched a DVD, and prepared French Onion soup :)10:18
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madduckpitti: are there any ubuntu changes in logcheck you want in debian?10:21
pittimadduck: no, I just requested a sync10:22
pittimadduck: our only change (creation of /var/lock/logcheck in init.d) has been adopted10:22
pittihi madduck 10:22
madduckhi. ok. great.10:22
seb128Mithrandir: around?10:22
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dholbachhey el10:37
Mithrandirseb128: hiya10:40
seb128Mithrandir: yeah10:40
seb128Mithrandir: that's something weird with xkeyboard-config10:40
Mithrandirseb128: how so?10:40
seb128Mithrandir: xkb-data is empty and xkeyboard-config has the content ... shouldn't it be the other way around?10:41
seb128Mithrandir: and data are still installed to /etc instead of /usr/share ... is that on purpose?10:41
Mithrandirseb128: both is on purpose.  The transition isn't done yet.10:41
seb128so I fix libxklavier for now10:42
seb128it's build with /usr/share as xkb path atm :p10:42
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pittihey Keybuk 10:44
sivangmorning Keybuk 10:45
pittiKeybuk: FYI and to avoid duplicate work, I grabbed some of your merges10:45
pittiKeybuk: logcheck and mtools so far10:45
pittiKeybuk: and I am going to do sane-backends and netkit-base unless you want to10:46
seb128Keybuk: you should rather grab merges from people not being around like mvo no? :)10:46
pittiKeybuk: oh, and I already did nis10:46
pittiseb128: you mean me?10:46
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seb128pitti: you should rather grab merges from people not being around like mvo no? :)10:47
pittiseb128: yep, I just did some packages I was familiar with10:47
Keybukpitti: I'd prefer to do netkit-base10:47
seb128pitti: you seem to be looking for something to do and trying to take work from other people for a week, I've a whole stack of GNOME bugs to track if you fancy it :p10:47
pittiKeybuk: sure, I do not have a particular attachment to it :)10:47
pittiseb128: I have heaps of work to do for myself, but we need to kill the merges10:48
Keybukotherwise no objection, I've also been grabbing merges from other people (Adam and Lamont mostly)10:48
seb128pitti: right, "we", you don't need to do them for everybody then :)10:48
pittiseb128: so I did Charles' merges and Adam's so far10:48
pittiseb128: sure :) (just trying' to help, sorry)10:48
seb128pitti: no need to be sorry, but I'm just pointing that other people will do their merge if you let them some time (I know I'll do mines for sure :p) ;)10:49
MithrandirI'll grab the discover1 merge since I doubt daniels is going to do it. :-P10:50
seb128pitti: though I'm sure than MOTU guys would be happy if you do their ~490 merges to do ;)10:51
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=== sivang is grabbing subversion, if no-one has grabbed it already.
Mithrandirfabbione: so, did it work?10:52
dholbachand i'd be happy if somebody did  scim  - really happy10:52
pittisivang: I'd let infinity do this10:52
pittisivang: he has access to Debian's svn and might have ubuntu in svn, too10:52
sivangpitti: ah, I see, okay then :)10:52
pittidholbach: ok, I'll do that10:53
fabbioneMithrandir: yes.. first shot.. and we don't need to do fonts transition. The DEbian path is hardcoded as optional in the server binary10:53
Mithrandirfabbione: oh, excellent.10:53
=== dholbach hugs pitti ecstatically
=== pitti beams
fabbioneMithrandir: at least as upgrade from dapper.. i have no idea if it works on clean installs yet10:53
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sivangdholbach: any ohter mergers you'd be hapy for someone to help you with? :)11:12
dholbachogra wanted to do gpm and pitti wanted to do scim11:13
dholbachi think thoses were the ones i wasn't happy with11:13
pittidholbach: scim-{anthy,chewing,etc.} too?11:13
dholbachhum, i didn't touch them11:13
Chipzzdholbach: s/gpm/g-p-m/ ;)11:13
dholbachlemme look whose merges those are11:13
dholbachChipzz: yeah, probably :)11:14
Chipzzdholbach: gpm is an actual package and probably not what you're referring too ;)11:14
dholbachpitti: hum, not sure, if Hou ZhengPeng wanted to do them11:14
dholbachChipzz: i know11:14
Chipzzanyway, enough nitpicking :P11:15
elhey dholbach :)11:15
dholbachel: how's it going?11:15
dholbachel: when are we going to go for some ice cream? i feel like it now already ;)11:15
eldholbach, hehe, too hot to work11:16
eldholbach, this week is very busy -> we have to do 40 tests :-|11:16
dholbachel: i can't say, I'm not busy :-)11:16
dholbachbut not too busy to get some of the best icrecream around :)11:17
eldholbach, hehe 11:17
eldholbach, wednesday evening maybe? 11:17
elsome feierabend icecream (instead of feierabend beer)11:17
dholbachel: sounds good11:17
dholbach(that doesn't stop me of getting some later on) :-p11:17
eldholbach, you are lucky to live almost next door11:18
dholbachel:i think it's the same distance for both of us, no?11:18
dholbach(from your work place)11:18
eldholbach, from home yes, but not from my work office ;-)11:18
dholbachoh, hm11:18
eldholbach, the new workplace (starting september) is next door11:19
dholbachrock on :-)11:19
elthat's gonna be great :)11:19
elice cream every day11:19
=== el is getting breakfast
pittiKeybuk: do you want to merge dhcdbd together with n-m or shall I merge it?11:20
dholbachel: bon appetit11:20
jsgotangcohe el11:20
Keybukpitti: I will merge it, as I said last week11:20
pittiKeybuk: oh, I forgot; thank you!11:21
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KeybukKamion: morning11:22
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sivanghey ivoks 11:23
ivokspitti: ping11:23
pittihi ivoks 11:23
ivokshi sivang ; how are you?11:23
ivokspitti: you've heard about that bug in 1.2.1? :)11:23
pittiivoks: yep, I read it this morning11:24
sivangivoks: fine, thanks.11:24
pittiivoks: I was just about to turn my attention to it :)11:24
pittiivoks: I'll also add something to postinst to /^RunAsUser/d 11:24
ivokspitti: there's debdiff that fixes it11:24
ivokspitti: nice :)11:24
pittiivoks: (and grrr @upstream to silently break his own configuration file format...)11:25
ivokspitti: it's a bug11:25
pittiivoks: I mean RunAsUser, not the IP parsing11:25
ivoksah, that11:25
ivokss/^RunAsUser/# RunAsUser - this option isn't available in CUPS 1.2.1/ would be nicer... imho11:26
pittiivoks: *nod*11:26
sivangivoks: FYI I did the merge for etherape, was just a sync.11:26
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ivokssivang: etherape? /me confused11:27
HrdwrBoBetherape is a graphical tool11:28
HrdwrBoBmaps your network connections11:28
HrdwrBoBit's seperate11:28
sivangEtherApe is an etherman clone. It displays network activity11:28
sivang graphically. Active hosts are shown as circles of varying size,11:28
sivangpitti, ivoks : ^^11:28
ivoksi know what they both are, bu i don't remeber saying anything abou ti11:28
sivangivoks: you were the last uploader on the MOTU merge list ;)11:28
ivoksah... :)11:28
sivangso it's courtesy and good practice to let the last person know you are taking his merge :)11:29
ivokssivang: right, thanks for info11:29
sivangivoks: np11:29
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dokopitti: bug 5246511:33
UbugtuMalone bug 52465 in gcc-4.1 "[libgcc1]  segfault on ppc when unwinding stack (c++ exceptions, mono exceptions)" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5246511:33
ivokssee you later today, bye11:33
fabbionego SSP!11:34
pittidoko: ugh, I thought it only affected mono11:34
pittidoko: so maybe we should disable it on ppc until upstream has a fix?11:35
dokofirst looking at it ...11:37
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seb128is there any massive builds retry planned?11:50
seb128most of GNOMEish stuff have not built on !i386 for a week apparently11:50
fabbioneseb128: what's the blocker?11:50
fabbionecan you see it from the logs?11:50
fabbioneor is it just random?11:50
fabbionex libs have been finished friday11:51
Keybukseb128: I did a retry on Thursday/Friday ... what's the problem ?11:51
seb128fabbione: for one GTK 2.10 didn't built due to xorg borkage and didn't get retried since11:51
fabbioneseb128: oh ok11:51
fabbioneit should be settled by now11:51
fabbionelibs are all done11:51
fabbionehopefully they also work11:51
seb128Keybuk: let me look to be sure11:51
Keybukseb128: could you give me a list of things that need giving back11:51
seb128it looked like a "GTK failed because pango was not installable due to xft"11:52
seb128Keybuk: sure, a min11:52
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seb128Keybuk: gtk+2.0 to start :)11:52
seb128  linuxdoc-tools-text: Depends: groff but it is not going to be installed11:52
seb128it got retried, that's a new error 11:53
KamionKeybuk: hi11:53
KeybukKamion: good weekend?11:53
seb128anybody with an amd64 to looks if groff is installable now, and if it's not why?11:53
Kamionyep, much beer11:53
Kamionseb128: what's wrong with edgy_probs?11:53
KeybukKamion: I got slightly sunburnt at goodwood on saturday11:53
Kamionedgy_probs currently says that groff is installable everywhere11:54
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fabbionepitti: ping?11:54
pittifabbione: pong11:55
seb128Kamion: nothing, so gtk+2.0 probably need a retry only11:55
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seb128Kamion: I was looking at http://librarian.launchpad.net/3279966/buildlog_ubuntu-edgy-amd64.gtk%2B2.0_2.10.0-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz11:55
fabbionepitti: do we have anything pending on xorg-server by anychance?11:55
Kamionsure, just saying you can look at the automatic list rather than asking for people to check manually11:55
fabbione(dapper to be more specific)11:55
seb128Kamion: right11:55
Kamionalso looking at just the last of a huge pile of "is not going to be installed" from apt is not very helpful IME11:56
Kamionbecause it's usually just that apt's problem resolver got bored11:56
Kamionnote that groff depends: libx11-6 and above apt said that it was unhappy with libx11-611:56
pittifabbione: if http://xorg.freedesktop.org/releases/X11R7.0/patches/x11r7.0-setuid.diff is already applied in edgy, then not11:56
pittifabbione: oh, that one is not yet applied in dapper11:56
fabbionepitti: ok perfect thanks11:57
pittifabbione: it's not really urgent (I regard it as bug fix rather than a vulnerability)11:57
fabbionepitti: i am about to apply it to edgy via debian sync11:57
fabbionepitti: if you think it's only bug fixes i will prepare a dapper-updates11:57
fabbionepitti: i need to upload xorg-server because well.. hmm one package in dapper is kind of empty by mistake11:58
pittifabbione: -updates is fine for me11:59
fabbionepitti: ok thanks11:59
fabbionepitti: what's the approval procedure for -updates now? open a bug with debdiff and sub ubuntu-release?11:59
seb128Keybuk: gtk+2.0 (which should unblock libgnomeui which is dep-waiting) then when libgnomeui is built: ubuntulooks gucharmap gcalctool gnome-python totem gnome-system-monitor evince gossip tsclient file-roller glabels glade nautilus-sendto nautilus-cd-burner epiphany-browser11:59
pittifabbione: unless there is already a bug, just mail mdz12:00
pittifabbione: if there is a bug, sub'ing him and asking for approval works fine, too12:00
fabbionepitti: ok. i don't recall a bug about it12:00
=== pitti neither
Keybukseb128: gtk+2.0 rebuilding now (this had already built on i386)12:01
seb128Keybuk: has said before, that's on !i38612:01
seb128Keybuk: i386 is fine12:01
seb128i386 libs built just before the xorg b0rkage probably12:02
tsengmoin seb128 12:05
Keybukwill they not need rebuilding with the new X11 libs?12:05
seb128hi tseng12:05
seb128Keybuk: I don't think so12:06
seb128Keybuk: anyway GNOME 2.15.4 this week so we will rebuild a good part of the stack anyway12:06
fabbioneKeybuk: no, there are no relevant changes to the libs other than being installable again12:07
fabbioneKeybuk: it was a merge only but some of them had the (in)famous epoch versioned depends *12:07
Keybukseb128: dep-wait on ia64: libglib2.0-dev (>= 2.12.0)12:15
sivangKeybuk: will you have time today to review SystemCleanUpTool so we can get it approved ?12:16
seb128Keybuk: hum, right, glib FTBFS on ia64 ... I need to investigate that, thank you for pointing it12:16
Keybuksivang: possibly12:16
sivangKeybuk: oh, that would make me happiest man alive :)12:17
Kamionseb128: goffice in NEW seems to drop back from libgoffice-1-2 to libgoffice-0-3; is that intentional?12:20
seb128dholbach: do you know about goffice?12:20
KamionGloubiboulga: ^--12:20
seb128Kamion: there might be 2 versions to NEW?12:20
Kamionthere are not12:21
seb128Kamion: I think somebody synced the unstable version first, and dholbach figured we need the experimental one12:21
Kamion  * [debian/*]  Follow upstream versioning change for the development version.12:21
seb128I'll let dholbach or Gloubiboulga comment then12:21
Kamionhmm, may be deliberate12:21
dholbachseb128: for gnumeric 1.7.0 we need goffice 0.3.012:21
Kamionwe have the version from experimental, yes12:21
dholbachand the package name was crafted in debian (the soname really changed)12:22
KamionI'm fine with it if it's intentional, just wanted to check12:22
dholbachthanks Kamion12:22
pittiseb128, dholbach: do you plan to update gimp to 2.2.12 in the next time? I currently do the security update for stables and wonder whether I should update edgy, too (and merge with Debian on this occasion)12:24
seb128pitti: I don't intend to touch gimp for now, maybe dholbach do though :)12:24
pitti(it's mvo's merge ATM)12:24
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dholbachseb128: let's get the experimental gimp in :)12:25
dholbachseb128: debian has 2.3.9-1 in experimental12:26
hmrochahello, when i press alt+f2 and run gconf-editor gnome-panel crashes12:26
Kamionpitti: do we want linuxprinting.org-ppds in main?12:26
seb128dholbach: I've too much to do already but feel free to do it12:26
hmrochacan you try in your computer please?12:26
seb128hmrocha: do you use a11y feature?12:26
pittidholbach: this also needs the security patch, btw (it's only fixed in 2.2.12)12:26
hmrochaseb128: what's that?12:26
dholbachseb128, pitti: might be safer to do the 2.2.12 update12:26
dholbachpitti: i set it on my list12:26
seb128hmrocha: try #ubuntu, that's not an user chan, but that might be a known issue12:26
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pittiKamion: hm, sounds useful for printers which speak Postscript12:27
hmrochaseb128: ok, sorry12:27
pittiKamion: but I never looked at it or saw a request for it12:27
dholbachseb128, pitti: not sure how stable experimental gimp is12:27
seb128dholbach: stable enough for edgy probably ;)12:27
Kamionnor I, I just noticed the name while looking through the hplip changelog while doing NEW processing12:27
dholbachseb128: word up :-)12:27
KamionKeybuk: btw, I'm bored of archive admin for now, your turn :)12:27
hmrochaseb128: are memory leaks appropriate for this channel?12:27
pittidholbach: ok, great (Debian has the fix in unstable already, CVE is in their changelog)12:27
seb128hmrocha: no12:28
seb128hmrocha: cf topic12:28
seb128hmrocha: you really want to use the bug tracker for issues like that12:28
dholbachpitti: i'll have a look if 2.3.10 fixes it12:28
KeybukKamion: heh, if you'd waited just 30s, I would have done it anyway12:28
KeybukI was just about to start the syncs, when you did the first one12:28
Kamionah, heh, ok12:29
Kamionsucks to be me12:29
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=== sivang searches for any more main merges he can do.
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Keybuksivang: UNIVERSE NEEDS YOU! :D12:42
Keybuk(though I guess their deadline is a lot further away)12:42
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sivangKeybuk: I already helped some merges there , and wil do more , but yeah, main's deadline is annoyingly close :)12:48
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Mithrandirdoko: would you care to do the syck merge as it's a python transition thing?01:09
ograpitti, you have a logitech udb 250 headset, right  01:09
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dholbachogra: and another g-p-m release: 2.15.4 :)01:14
ogradholbach, is the stack ready now ? 01:14
dholbachogra: i386 seems happy01:15
ograwhen i tried it last time, it ftbfs because of missing pango stuff01:15
ograok, then i'll try today again01:15
dokoMithrandir: ok01:15
Mithrandirdoko: cheers.01:16
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dokoMithrandir: bah, now we're in sync with python, we have a php4/php5 divergence01:20
Mithrandirdoko: we've had that since hoary or breezy, so that's nothing new.01:21
slomo_Keybuk, Kamion: could you please accept metacity and nautilus-cd-burner from NEW? i'm waiting for them for gnome-python-desktop upload which is currently blocking most of gnome01:32
Keybukslomo_: I'll be processing the NEW queue once I've finished processing syncs01:32
Keybukyou shouldn't need to block an upload for a NEW processing, the build will dep-wait01:33
slomo_Keybuk: i wanted to testbuild it before... but ok, i'll just upload it and hope that it builds fine :)01:34
Keybukyou can test build it by building metacity and nautilus-cd-burner01:35
dokoSelecting previously deselected package libc6-i386.01:38
dokoUnpacking libc6-i386 (from .../libc6-i386_2.4-1ubuntu6_amd64.deb) ...01:38
dokoSelecting previously deselected package lib32gcc1.01:38
dokoUnpacking lib32gcc1 (from .../lib32gcc1_1%3a4.1.1-2ubuntu5_amd64.deb) ...01:38
dokodpkg: error processing /home/buildd/build-224804-172430/chroot-autobuild/var/cache/apt/archives/lib32gcc1_1%3a4.1.1-2ubuntu5_amd64.deb (--unpack):01:38
doko trying to overwrite `/usr/lib32', which is also in package libc6-i38601:38
dokoSelecting previously deselected package lib32z1.01:38
dokoUnpacking lib32z1 (from .../lib32z1_1%3a1.2.3-12ubuntu1_amd64.deb) ...01:38
dokodpkg: error processing /home/buildd/build-224804-172430/chroot-autobuild/var/cache/apt/archives/lib32z1_1%3a1.2.3-12ubuntu1_amd64.deb (--unpack):01:38
doko trying to overwrite `/usr/lib32', which is also in package libc6-i38601:38
dokoMithrandir: ^^^ from the gcc-4.1 build log, works fine for me, is this a problem with the buildd?01:38
Mithrandirdoko: do you have force-overwrite or something in dpkg.conf?01:39
doko/usr/lib32 is a directory ...01:40
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infinityIt bloody well better be, yes.01:40
Mithrandiroh, true.01:40
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Mithrandirthat's interesting, then..01:41
infinityCan someone mail me to investigate that tomorrow when I'm in and not sick?01:41
infinityI've had this argument with dpkg and glibc a few times already, so there may be a real bug somewhere.01:41
infinitys/may be/almost certainly is/01:41
Mithrandirinfinity: sent.01:42
MithrandirI just C&P the IRC log, I presume that works.01:43
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infinityWorks for me, yes.01:43
Keybukdoko: usually happens when two different packages think /usr/lib32 is a symlink to different places01:47
Keybukthe annoying thing is that the error will occur on a package that thinks /usr/lib32 is a directory01:48
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infinityIt should be a directory everywhere, but I'm looking.01:50
dokoKeybuk: that could be a wrongly merged lib32* package, which still has /usr/lib32 pointing to /emul/something. but looking at the changelog, the first lib32 packages unpacked are libc6-i386, and then lib32gcc1. so maybe it's a leftover symlink on the buildd?01:50
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janimohi all01:51
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Keybukdoko: leftover from what?>01:53
Keybukchroots are fresh for each build, not re-used01:53
=== infinity is looking into it...
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infinityroot@crested:~# dpkg -S /emul01:58
infinityfakeroot: /emul01:58
infinitydoko: The fakeroot merge is what did it.01:58
infinitydoko: Fix that and we're back on track.01:58
infinitydoko: (and fix your preinst to be less scary too)01:59
Kamionhmm, doc-base <- fun merge01:59
=== Kamion dusts off his perl to excise the use of Unicode::String
sivangseb128: Would you mind if I did vino? ; no new  upstream version, and only one patch to reapply (01_no_client_on_hold_loop.patch) and only autotools version change (1.9.6) they are using. So needs putting the patch in, and possible rebuild with changed autoconf version.02:02
sivangseb128: ah also, dropping avahi build deps02:03
infinitydoko: Of course, given fakeroot's build-deps, I may need to manually bootstrap that when I wake up, but if you upload fixed source, I can sort it on the binary end.02:03
dokoinfinity: ok, will do02:06
ograpitti, ping02:07
dokoinfinity: err, fakeroot 1.5.9ubuntu1 does have /usr/lib32 ...02:07
seb128sivang: do what? I asked for a sync of vino and it has been done02:08
infinitydoko: Oh, hah.  It failed to build with the same problem.02:08
infinitydoko: So if I bootstrap the current one, everything will be fine?02:09
dokoinfinity: yes, looks so02:09
infinitydoko: Okay, thanks.  Will do.02:09
=== infinity pulls some tricks to make this happen quicker.
sivangseb128: ah, okay, probably MoM was not updated yet :) 02:11
seb128sivang: you can probably help MOTU guys, they have an impressive list of merges to do02:12
dokoiwj: will xulrunner be in main for edgy?02:18
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infinitydoko: Err, I'll fix it when soyuz stops arguing with me about what I'm trying to do.02:20
dholbachdoko: unfortunately not, seems upstream has no firefox-without-xulrunner source, so we'd have the source in the archive two times02:21
seb128dholbach: what about xulrunner?02:22
dholbachseb128: doko asked, if we'll have xulrunner in main for edgy02:22
seb128ah, k02:22
seb128probably not 02:23
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dholbachpitti: gimp uploaded02:23
=== dholbach goes out now
pittiogra: pong02:23
pittiogra: yes, I have a logitech usb headset, not sure about the model02:24
seb128dholbach: later02:24
sivangseb128:  Is the synced vino already in edgy ?02:24
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seb128sivang: you don't know how to look that by yourself that you have to ask?02:25
seb128sivang: I've read the mail on edgy-changes, let me have a look on the ftp since that seems to be to complicate for you to do it :p02:25
gnomefreakvino 2.13.5-0ubuntu6   is in edgy atm02:25
seb1282.13.5-1 has been synced02:26
seb128looks like it didn't build yet though02:26
sivangseb128: so I can get the source only after it's been built ? 02:27
sivangseb128: (I apt-get source and it gave me the odl one)02:27
=== sivang checks his mirror
seb128the URI I just copied02:27
seb128you know you can wget it02:28
seb128but why do you need the new version anyway?02:28
ograpitti, does your headset work for more than 1-1.5 mins with the current powerpc kernel ?02:28
seb128that's only a sync from Debian, it has nothing useful02:28
ografor me it just dies02:28
sivangseb128: I don't, I just wanted to know what made me be stupid and think it was not sync'd yet, sorry :)02:28
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pittiogra: hm, I don't know; I have to upgrade my laptop to current edgy and check02:28
seb128sivang: that's not exactly the right chan for that :p02:28
sivangseb128: never trust apt-get source then :p02:28
seb128sivang: rather wait for the index update02:29
sivangseb128: I agree, and apologize deeply :)02:29
seb128sivang: but users questions on #ubuntu02:29
ograpitti, for me it doesnt even play music for more than the above timeframe02:29
ograseems either the driver or alsa02:29
pittiogra: I haven't used it very extensively so far, but I'll check on next possibility02:29
ograit works well on my amd64 lappie with the dapper kernel though02:30
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Hobbseehi all02:34
RiddellKeybuk: are you still playing at being infinity today?  could you give back komba2?02:35
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iwjdoko: I wasn't planning to do anything do with about by from or pertaining to xulrunner.02:52
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KeybukRiddell: I am03:05
=== Keybuk hugs give-back.py :p
HobbseeKeybuk: thanks for fixing MOM :)03:07
HobbseeKeybuk: how it wasnt updating, even though the merges had gone thru03:07
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Keybukwhen wasn't it updating?03:08
=== Mithrandir kicks mom in the, er, nuts. Or something.
KeybukMithrandir: ?03:08
Douglas77hi! Do you know how to customize a Ubuntu-ISO so it uses a self-compiled kernel? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization/6%2e10 doesn't talk about that...03:08
HobbseeKeybuk: a couple of days ago?  there was talk about it, people were confirming it - i thought you were too...03:08
MithrandirKeybuk: it doesn't do magic stuff to fix mismatched orig.tar.gz files between Debian and Ubuntu.03:08
KeybukMithrandir: it can't do anything ?03:09
KeybukHobbsee: *shrug* not that I'm aware of03:09
Mithrandirit could magically give me a new unsigned .dsc with the correct .dsc.03:09
Mithrandiruh, orig.tar.gz03:09
KeybukHobbsee: the archive was fucked a lot last week, maybe it was that03:09
Keybuk(which I was fixing)03:09
=== Mithrandir is clearly getting tired.
HobbseeKeybuk: it also borked the kid3 merge - said two files were different, but they werent.03:09
KeybukMithrandir: for which, Debian?03:09
HobbseeKeybuk: ah, may well have been03:09
KeybukHobbsee: bet they were03:10
HobbseeKeybuk: bet they werent. StevenK and myself checked that with diff.03:10
Hobbsees/diff/whatever it was - my brain's dying!03:10
KeybukHobbsee: did you md5sum them?03:10
MithrandirKeybuk: it'd make sense for it to give me a source package with what's in Ubuntu, but with Debian's diff, yes.03:10
KeybukMithrandir: but that wouldn't be the source of the merge ...03:10
HobbseeKeybuk: didnt try that, no.03:10
KeybukMithrandir: it could give you a .src.tar.gz of the Debian unpacked tree03:11
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KeybukHobbsee: binary files, I assume?03:11
rodarvusiwj: do you have any idea on how hard would it be to have xulrunner on main for Edgy? Could be useful for Edubuntu (possibly for other reasons too)03:11
HobbseeKeybuk: po files.03:11
iwjrodarvus: Hi.  As I said to doko, I'm afraid I haven't looked at that at all.03:12
iwjSo I don't really know the answer.03:12
HobbseeKeybuk: unfortunately, i dont have it anymore.03:12
iwjrodarvus: Wouldn't this be the kind of thing that should be in a spec ?03:12
KeybukHobbsee: oh, those always do odd things03:13
HobbseeKeybuk: ah okay03:13
KeybukHobbsee: usually means msgmerge core dumped03:13
Keybuk(yay, gettext)03:13
Hobbseehehe great, we say!03:13
seb128rodarvus: we discussed it basically during the summit, xulrunner to main is not a good idea03:13
Kamionmsgmerge sometimes issues complaints about strange encodings or whatever03:13
seb128rodarvus: since we have to ship firefox xulrunner would be only code duplication03:13
seb128rodarvus: we have nobody wanting to work on maintaining it and enough bugs without that anyway03:14
rodarvusseb128: oh, that is partially bad news, as we'd like to research the possibility of having Epiphany on Edubuntu (but I agree it will probably won't be done in Edgy timeframe)03:14
Kamionepiphany's already in main03:14
seb128rodarvus: we would like to use xulrunner for GNOME too ....03:14
seb128Kamion: but it uses firefox, not xulrunner atm03:15
rodarvusKamion: yes, but it uses firefox03:15
seb128the discussion is about xulrunner here03:15
seb128if they have to ship firefox anyway, no point to ship a second browser (epiphany)03:15
seb128it would be nice to ship epiphany based on xulrunner and no firefox for them though03:15
seb128anyway, I don't think it'll happen before having firefox using xulrunner ...03:16
iwjAnd the point of this is just to get the redundant firefox code off the install cd ?03:16
ograseb128, we have to ship epiphany 03:16
Kamioniwj: right, epiphany doesn't produce a gain unless its firefox dependency is removed03:16
ograand will do so, regardless of the rendering engine03:16
ograbut xulrunner would indeed be a size advantage (a major one)03:17
seb128ogra: why? because of kioske mode?03:17
rodarvusiwj: for us, the point is to have Epiphany as default browser on low-memory situations, and also because epiphany is kiosk-able (using sabayon)03:17
seb128hum, k03:17
ograand because we want to ship pessulus and sabayon by default03:17
iwjrodarvus: Those things can be done even if you still ship firefox.03:17
iwjYou just turn it off in the menus etc.03:17
ograwhich both have browser features included03:17
iwjKamion: Quite so.03:18
seb128iwj: the edubuntu CD is fighting to spare 1M usually, so dropping firefox would probably be a good win for them03:18
ograadding epiphany will cost us only some MB ...03:18
rodarvusseb128: exactly03:18
iwjseb128: Mmmhm.03:18
ograbut dropping firefox and replacing it with xulrunner willl rather go into the 10MB area03:18
iwjI think though that you're going to have real problems with dual maintenance of lots of the code.03:19
seb128that's why we don't want xulrunner to main :p03:19
ograi think its only a security updates issue ... but there its a major one 03:19
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seb128I think the plan for upstream is to make firefox use xulrunner at some point, but that's not for now :/03:20
rodarvusKamion, Keybuk: in the next few yours we'll be uploading a dozen+ xserver-xorg-video-* packages as NEW - hopefully later today, they'll replace all old xserver-xorg-driver-* packages03:20
Keybukrodarvus: ok03:20
ogramaintaining a source twice works if you have two people caring for it during development ... but it would give pitti grief if he'd have to do security patches for both03:20
pittiBenC: ping03:20
rodarvus(later a upload of xorg to satisfy xserver-xorg-video-all will be done to satisfy the dependency too)03:20
iwjseb128: Yes.03:21
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mhbgood afternoon to you, mighty developers03:22
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mhbperhaps one of you knows (and could tell me) when we unworthy translators will be able to translate Edgy ... (surely after Jul 13th, but when?)03:24
seb128mhb:  #launchpad might be a better place to ask that03:25
seb128mhb: carlos probably knows about it03:25
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seb128mhb: why "unworthy"?03:25
Kamionmhb: with regard to your inkscape query from the weekend, 0.44 has already been uploaded to Edgy, but just hasn't built yet. That will be sorted out.03:26
mhbseb128: a bit of drama never hurts :o)03:26
pitticarlos: any idea when we can get edgy translation tarballs?03:26
seb128mhb: not sure if it hurts but it can bother people :p03:26
ogramhb, telling that to seb128 might not be the right thing, he had his drama yesterday evening :)03:27
ogra(he's french)03:27
seb128ogra: that's only sport, I don't really care about it :)03:27
ograseb128, btw, any words from zidane in the french press ? 03:27
thomthere's not much he could really say... "i suck, it's been fun, kthx"03:29
jsgotangcohe got to be man of the match though03:30
ograthom, well, i'd be curious to hear about the reason ...03:30
mhbshould I wait here for a response from carlos or should I ask in #launchpad?03:31
mhbKamion: thanks03:31
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carlosmhb, seb128, pitti: I'm finishing some migration code for Edgy03:36
carlosit's my main task atm so I guess really soon03:36
pitticarlos: cool03:37
seb128mhb: carlos replied :p03:37
mhbseb128: noticed :o)03:37
mhbcarlos: thanks for the answer03:37
ograseb128, dholbach, does ekiga offer any kind of plugin mechanism ? i'd like to write a script that notifies all my desktops if a call comes in ...03:37
mhbcarlos: really soon is a matter of days? one week? two weeks?03:38
carlosmhb: days to finish some code to open it even better than dapper03:38
seb128ogra: no idea, I've not used ekiga (yet)03:38
Treenaksogra: afaik it doesn't..03:38
carlosmhb: after that I will test it and try to move it into production... I guess we could say one week or so03:39
ograroom for improvement then :)03:39
carlosbetween testing and deployment 03:39
Treenaksogra: yeah, it also doesn't notify anything/anyone when a connection to a SIP server drops03:39
Treenaksogra: (so you can't get incoming calls..)03:39
ograTreenaks, well, i see if my account is connected or not in th eUI03:39
Treenaksogra: yes, but it doesn't notify you if it gets disconnected for (some|no) reason03:40
Keybukogra: adding libnotify support would be better ?03:40
ograKeybuk, surely03:40
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bddebianMorning folks03:50
bddebianThanks Kamion03:50
KeybukMithrandir: I don't think we should even attempt to merge bootchart03:53
Keybukthe Debian package is _completely_ different03:53
MithrandirKeybuk: iirc you and whoever packaged it in Debian did it in parallell?03:53
Keybukyup, and they've taken a totally different direction with it03:54
Keybukwe integrated it into the initramfs and used java-gcj-compat03:54
Keybukthey've made it use kaffe and replace init03:54
Mithrandirew, ok.03:54
Mithrandirtry dropping the maintainer a mail asking if he could switch to our approach?03:55
bddebianMust be because of you damn non-cooperative Ubuntu types03:55
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=== Keybuk blinks at the cdrdao merge
Keybukgeneral observation: merges are much easier if you don't reindent the entire source coed04:02
seb128Keybuk: could you bump the gnome-python-desktop build priority? :) That would unblock the gnome-applets sync and new version and some other packages probably too04:04
Keybukseb128: ok04:05
gnomefreakwas it decided to keep xorg 7.0 for edgy?04:06
seb128Keybuk: thank you04:06
seb128gnomefreak: no04:06
Keybukgnomefreak: no decision was made04:06
seb128Keybuk: hum, has nautilus-cd-burner been accepted yet (soname change)? because it's required for gnome-python-desktop04:08
Keybukno, it has not04:08
seb128ok, so sorry for asking to bump the build priority, it'll be of no use for now :)04:09
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Kamiondoko: by the way, in case you're going round converting stuff to new python policy, please ignore oem-config*; oem-config itself is converted in bzr and the rest are going away04:11
dokoKamion: ok, thanks04:12
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slomo_doko: gcc-4.1 4.1.1-8ubuntu1 FTBFS on ppc :(04:15
dokoslomo_: yes, I see. looks like gnat doesn't like ssp ...04:16
fabbioneso does amd6404:16
dokofabbione: no, something else04:16
fabbioneso does amd64 + fail04:17
bddebianKamion or Keybuk: gcl needs a rebuild.  Can you guys throw it up or should I just pull it add a build1 version and throw it back up?04:20
Keybukbddebian: on which architectures?  I'm showing a successful build on i386, amd64 and sparc04:22
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bddebianKeybuk: It built successfully, it just needs a rebuild against some newer libs04:22
dholbachogra: no idea, sorry04:23
Keybukbddebian: then you will need a new upload04:23
dholbachogra: isn't 'ringing' enough? :)04:23
bddebianKeybuk: OK, thanks04:23
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ogradholbach, not in this house :) my office is upstairs and i like to work in the garden or in one of the balconies :)04:24
dholbachogra: the laptop speaker will ring04:24
ogradholbach, if i get a call on the desktop machine ? 04:24
fabbioneogra: can't you just close ekiga from the ws and open it on the laptop?04:25
dholbachogra: you won't have run back in time, so you'd want to use ekiga on the laptop04:25
bddebianDamn, I swore I sent lightspeed up already..04:26
ograsigh, ok, then i have to find out whats wrong with 2.6.17's usb-sound driver :)04:26
Treenaks*something about scratching one's own itch* :P04:26
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Gloubiboulga_hello janimo 04:30
bddebianHmm, I wonder how gcl built.  It FTBFSs for me04:30
janimoGloubiboulga_: hi :)04:30
janimoGloubiboulga_: I'll start on the xfce packages as I said on the list04:31
Keybukraphink: note, it's generally a bad idea to set an importance on a sync request ;)04:31
ograjanimo, !!04:31
ograwelcome back !04:31
Keybukraphink: we tend to just assume those on the bottom are the new ones04:31
Gloubiboulga_janimo, ok :)04:31
Keybukraphink: setting a higher importance means that we miss them unless we're concentrating04:31
janimoogra: thanks04:31
raphinkKeybuk: ah ok :)04:35
raphinkso I just confirm it and subscribe you04:35
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raphinkthank you for the 3 syncs Keybuk :)04:35
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Gloubiboulga_hm, the new goffice is built on LP but is not on the repos yet (it's been uploaded last week)04:47
Gloubiboulga_is there a problem somewhere?04:47
slomo_Gloubiboulga_: it's on binary NEW04:49
Gloubiboulga_ah ok, thanks slomo_ 04:50
Keybukfabbione: X query, if you're there?04:52
Keybuk(or anyone, for that matter)04:53
Keybukwe have an xterm patch to put the manpage in 1 not 1x04:54
Keybukdo we still want that?04:54
Keybukoh, ignore me, it changed upstream anyway04:54
Keybukhmm, but Debian still has a patch to put it in 1x04:55
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Keybukok, so do we want to keep Debian's 1x patch, or our (and upstream's) 1 ?04:55
KamionGloubiboulga_: I processed it through NEW this morning05:01
KamionKeybuk: "put it in 1x" is ambiguous05:01
KeybukKamion: section05:02
KamionKeybuk: there are (still) two things that could mean - either the directory (/usr/share/man/man1 is correct, /usr/share/man/man1x is wrong) or the filename (xterm.1.gz or xterm.1x.gz; I'd lean towards the latter but it's not critical)05:02
Keybukwe and upstream call it xterm.1.gz05:02
Keybukbut Debian call it xterm.1x.gz05:02
Keybukand it's a patch we deliberately dropped, fwict05:02
KeybukI was wondering whether we still drop that05:02
crimsunI've been dropping it.05:02
KamionDebian is arguably more correct here, though it's a nicety05:03
Gloubiboulga_Kamion, thanks, I shouldn't trust packages.u.c :)05:03
Kamionthe directory is worth worrying about (and diverging from Debian if they get it wrong); for the filename, just going from minimal diff from our immediate parent is probably most sensible05:03
KamionGloubiboulga_: (on the one architecture where it built ...)05:04
Kamionthe others were probably transient problems though05:04
janimoGloubiboulga_: tried mailing goffice debian maintainer?05:05
Kamionjanimo: what for?05:05
janimoso we don't carry the -gtk patch?05:05
Gloubiboulga_janimo, not yet, I was waiting to get goffice/gnumeric uploaded05:05
janimoGloubiboulga_: ok, as he said he'd take it if it works in ubuntu.05:05
Chipzzis anyone bothering with evolution-exchange ?05:06
Chipzzapt-get dist-upgrade has been threatening me to remove it for over 3 days :P05:06
KeybukChipzz: define "bothering"05:07
HobbseeChipzz: is there a bug filed for it?05:07
Keybukif you're complaining about a mere 3-day breakage in edgy, you're going to be ignored05:07
HobbseeKeybuk: does "bothering" happen to include removing it from the archive?  that could be fun.05:07
HobbseeKeybuk: break X on Chipzz in punishment hehe :P05:07
KeybukHobbsee: X isn't broken anyway?05:08
gnomefreaknot yet05:08
ChipzzKeybuk: I think it needs a rebuild05:08
HobbseeKeybuk: no, kdelibs4-dev is still installable today, so it cant be...05:08
ChipzzKeybuk: I assumed that no-one had noticed the breakage05:08
=== Hobbsee needs to install edgy sometime. she's putting it off!
KeybukChipzz: edgy is mid-merge ... you're lucky if anything works05:09
HobbseeChipzz: --> launchpad and file a bug, if there's not already there == quickest and most useful way to tell someone.05:09
KeybukChipzz: you clearly don't need evolution-exchange, because you wouldn't run edgy on a box you need05:09
ChipzzHobbsee: probably05:09
gnomefreaki think i saw a bug on it already05:09
=== Hobbsee snorts
Hobbseewell with logic like that.... :P05:10
gnomefreakChipzz: this your issue too? https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/evolution-exchange/+bug/4914205:11
UbugtuMalone bug 49142 in evolution-exchange "Could not connect to Evolution Exchange backend process" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  05:11
Chipzz# apt-get install evolution05:12
ChipzzThe following packages will be REMOVED: evolution-exchange*05:12
tsengevolution-exhcange is built again "old" evolution05:12
dholbachChipzz: that's edgy?05:12
tsengit needs rebuilt05:12
Chipzztseng: that's what I said05:12
Chipzzdholbach: idd05:12
Keybuktseng: it currently FTBS completely05:12
tsengKeybuk: *unsuprised805:13
tsengKeybuk: took months to get evolution-sharp updated05:13
Keybukthis is a completely pointless discussion05:13
Keybukit's edgy05:13
Chipzzthe reason I'm "whining" is because in most cases breakage gets noticed and fixed really fast05:13
tsengyes, it really is05:13
KeybukChipzz: EDGY ... MERGES ... STFU :p05:13
tsengit is completely obvious to the developers05:13
Chipzznm :P05:13
dholbachChipzz: the whole stack is broken atm, and its being fixed - don't use edgy, if you can't live with breakage... sorry05:13
KeybukChipzz: we're not making any attempt to make anything build or be installable until after UVF05:13
Chipzzguys, I was merely pointing out that the package was broken in case no-one noticed yet; I really don't want this whole discussion ;P05:14
infinitydoko: Did you drop the syck change that turned off optimisation in the testsuite?05:14
infinityMithrandir: That was the fix for amd64, right?05:15
dokoinfinity: hmm, apparently05:16
infinitydoko: Kay, I'm going to kill the amd64 build that's been spinning for the last hour, if you can upload a fix for me.05:17
=== Hobbsee advises Chipzz to be quiet, or risk the wrath of keybuk. $mypetbugs only get fixed by accident during merging - they're not the highest priority at the moment.
bddebianohh, hamlib failed to build, no wonder05:17
Hobbseebddebian: ah, and that's why i cant seem to get to it.  excellent.05:17
bddebianHobbsee: Aye :-)05:18
=== Hobbsee makes a note to ignore ktrack for a while longer :P
bddebianHobbsee: I'm going to look at it now05:18
Hobbseebddebian: cool :)05:18
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ogramumble, mumble ... 05:26
=== ogra drops his unuploaded kino merge
=== bddebian curses python->2.3 dependent packages
Keybukogra: you weren't the last to touch it, so stop grumbling ;P05:29
ograKeybuk, well, i listed it on my "to merge" packages the last two meetings :P05:29
Keybukogra: any particular reason?  I made the changes to it05:29
ograKeybuk, its in main for edubuntu, but i'm fine that you merged it 05:30
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bddebianIs python2.3-dev borked in Edgy?05:32
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bddebianThe following packages have unmet dependencies:05:32
bddebian  python2.3-dev: Depends: python2.3 (= 2.3.5-9ubuntu1) but it is not going to be installed05:32
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ograwe have python 2.3 stuff in edgy ? 05:33
Keybukbddebian: I believe your paste answers your own question05:33
bddebianKeybuk: Aye but I can't do anything about it05:34
Kamionbddebian: general method for investigating that kind of problem is to 'apt-get install' the thing(s) that it's complaining about explicitly, and iterate until you get to the thing that's actually broken05:34
sivangbddebian: all packages should use 2.4-dev, AFAICT, at least, all the apckages I have touched had patches to use 2.4-dev instead of 2.3-dev05:34
mdkepitti: in case you haven't seen it yet - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2006-July/000724.html05:34
Kamion python2.3 |   2.3.5-14 | edgy/universe | source05:34
Kamion^-- not built yet05:34
bddebiansivang: Agreed but hamlib specifically build-conflicts python2.405:34
sivangbddebian: ah, then just wait for it to be built I guess05:35
Kamiondoko: python2.3 2.3.5-14 ftbfs looks like a bug05:35
sivangbddebian: or build it yourself in the meanwhile..05:35
Kamione.g. http://librarian.launchpad.net/3288053/buildlog_ubuntu-edgy-i386.python2.3_2.3.5-14_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz05:35
bddebianKamion: I know but I don't have an Edgy machine and pbuilder login is a pita :-)05:35
Kamionbddebian: that's nice05:35
sivangbddebian: use edgy :) I use it on my laptop05:35
Hobbseebddebian: pbuilder login isnt *that* bad :P05:36
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bddebianHobbsee: No, works good it's just slow to setup/etc for a quick test :-)05:36
Hobbseebddebian: that is true05:36
dokoKamion: known, low prio at the moment05:39
dokopitti: tetex-extra fails to configure in dapper-updates05:39
Kamiondoko: fair enough05:40
Kamioniwj: can your dpkg symlinks-to-same-directory file conflict patch go up to Debian, or is it too experimental/doubtful/broken?05:44
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iwjKamion: I think I already submitted it to the BTS with a note saying `please apply this'.05:57
iwjLet me check.05:57
iwjHmm.  I can't seem to find a record of that.05:59
=== iwj looks some more.
pittimdke: yep, I investigated this today, and it's a complete miracle; build-langpacks.sh and apt-ftparchive DTRT when I run it manually, but fail when running from cron06:00
pittimdke: I added some debug code to the script and will see what breaks tomorrow06:01
pittimdke: but thanks for pointing out06:01
pittidoko: oh, with the tetex-bin in d-updates? is there any bug report for that?06:01
iwjKamion: No, I seem to have omitted to do that.  But it should go to Debian and given the testing it's had since I invented it I'm confident in it.06:02
iwjKamion: Do you want me to submit it ?06:02
iwjSorry for not doing that sooner.06:02
Kamioniwj: sounds like a good idea; it's our last diff versus Debian06:03
Kamion(I just merged 1.3.22)06:03
iwjI'll do that now.06:04
Kamionmakes more sense coming from you than from this humble merge-monkey06:04
iwjYou mean `you have a chance of remembering what on earth it was all about'.06:04
Kamionthat too ...06:05
dokopitti: bug 5255506:06
UbugtuMalone bug 52555 in tetex-base "tetex-extra failts to configure" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5255506:06
pittidoko: thanks, I'll check that in a clean chroot06:07
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gnomefreakwho maintains xservwer-xorg-core?06:08
Hobbseegnomefreak: apt-cache show?06:09
bddebianAnyone know of a POSIX compliant version of this?  rm -f $${$@%.rm}06:09
bddebianSeems to fail on dash06:09
=== Kamion scratches head
Kamionwhat does that even mean in bash? :)06:10
Kamion$@ being the positional parameters06:10
bddebianNo freakin' clue :-)06:10
Kamionlooks like garbage to me; can you point me at the context?06:10
UbugtuDebian bug 376806 in gcl "Subject: gcl: FTBFS: bashisms in debian/rules" [Important,Open]  06:10
Kamionoh, it's within a makefile06:10
bddebianKamion: debian/rules to be precise06:11
mdkepitti: cool, thanks06:11
Kamionuse make's own text-handling functions if you're working on a make variable06:11
bddebianiwj: rm -f $${$@%.rm} -> rm -f ${<filename>%.rm}  ?06:12
iwjbddebian: It's transformed like that by make.06:12
pittibddebian: that won't work, you need $$ to escape the $ from make06:12
iwjYou can see that in the bug report you reference.06:12
Kamionrm -f $(patsubst %.rm,%,$@)06:12
=== pitti always thought that ${var%suffix} was posix sh
iwj${...%...} is supported by SuSv3.06:12
Kamionpitti: it is, but var has to actually be a variable not random text06:12
pittioh, heh, true06:13
iwjOh, duh!06:13
=== iwj bangs his head.
bddebianWhy not just rm -f debian/control.rm since that is all that is passed to it?06:13
iwjDon't ask me.06:14
pittibddebian: maybe it's not 31337 enough?06:14
=== Kamion extracts the package to loo
iwjWhy write what you mean in a makefile when you can make it (a) complicated, (b) wrong and (c) unportable all in one go ?06:14
Kamion$ echo ${foo.rm%.rm}06:15
Kamion-bash: ${foo.rm%.rm}: bad substitution06:15
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Kamionbash does that too ...06:15
LaserJockiwj: lol06:15
bddebianKamion: I know, it ftbfs'd for me to with bash :-)06:15
bddebianI wonder how it built on the buildd06:16
pittibddebian: btw, this would be 'rm debian/control' (without the .rm), but this looks fishy, too :)06:16
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=== bddebian starts to wonder again why he is here :'-(
Kamion        rm -f $${$@%.rm}06:18
Kamiondebian/control: debian/control.rm06:18
Kamion        cp debian/control.$(EXT) debian/control06:18
Kamionpersonally I'd do the patsubst thing and pray I never have to look at that makefile again06:19
ograbddebian, as some buddhists say, to raise your karma ;)06:19
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bddebianogra: Well I'm stupid, I have too much going on in RL and I seem to piss -devels off :-(06:19
pittiKamion: does it modify debian/control at all after copying it? on-the-fly debian/contol's are so evil...06:20
Kamionpitti: no idea, don't want to find out06:21
sivangpitti: I so much agree , they are EVIL06:21
bddebianSo what should I do?06:22
sivangiwj: to win a write-once read-never content? :)06:23
Kamionbddebian: 17:19 < Kamion> personally I'd do the patsubst thing and pray I never have to look at that makefile again06:23
bddebianKamion: OK, thx06:23
pittibddebian: IMHO, the best would be to just create a static control and throw away all the rewriting stuff, if that's reasonable06:23
pittibddebian: (depends on what this actually does to the .rm file to produce d/control)06:24
bddebianpitti: I will ask Debian maintainer to do so :-)06:24
pittibddebian: yep, file a serious bug, that helps getting attention :)06:24
Kamionpitti: the .rm thing is just a magic target to arrange for debian/control to be removed (why bother? but hey); control.$(EXT) is the thing that actually gets copied06:25
=== pitti stops thinking about it before his brain starts to revolt
pitti(... starts revolting?)06:25
bddebianThis freaking thing takes forever to build too :-(06:26
bddebianOK, can I ask another question without getting lynched? :-)06:26
Kamionnobody lynched you06:26
pittibddebian: no, we can't /msg you an ice cream, sorry06:27
bddebianKamion: No, not on this, thank you all for the help, BTS06:27
bddebianErr BTW06:27
bddebianhamlib builds fine with python2.4 however it has a binary package python2.3-hamlib2.  Can I make that python2.4-hamlib2 or should I just wait for python2.3 to get fixed?06:28
Kamionpython2.4-hamlib2 should be fine, but it should also be converted to the new python policy (which would make it python-hamlib2 once all the other necessary changes are made)06:28
Kamionbut if you don't feel up to that, python2.4-hamlib2 is fine; just check reverse dependencies06:29
bddebianWell I would need to check reverse-deps if I did python-hamlib2 anyway wouldn't I?06:29
bddebianSo if I did that, build-deps should just be python-dev and python not versioned right?06:31
Kamionbddebian: it's not that simple - see the new python policy06:32
Kamionit is not a cut-and-paste conversion06:32
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ograpitti, hmm, very intresting, my headset doesnt work with 2.6.15 either, seems gnome-sound-properties is automatically set back to the internal soundcard after 1-1.5mins06:32
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bddebianOK, well this starts to lead into my issues.  How much do we stray from Debian?  This is always puzzling to me06:32
Kamionwe want to convert everything to the new python policy; however there is a team in Debian actively doing the conversion so it may not be worth your while to learn how to do this one06:33
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sivangKamion: wouldn't be able to just sync up from debian once they have finished the conversoin?06:33
pittiogra: the only thing that resets the default card known to me is gnome-volume-manager, when it sees that you just removed the default device06:34
Kamionsivang: yes06:34
bddebiansivang: Yes but it's holding up other merges/syncs06:34
pittiogra: can you check whether the settings in ~/.asoundrc.asoundconf change after that time?06:34
ograpitti, nope, they dont change06:35
pittiogra: hm, then it's not g-v-m06:35
ogra!defaults.pcm.card Headset06:36
ogradefaults.ctl.card Headset06:36
ogradefaults.pcm.device 006:36
ogradefaults.pcm.subdevice -106:36
pittiogra: g-s-p reads the default card directly from alsa normally06:36
ograg-s-p shows "Snapper"06:36
pittiogra: anything helpful in dmesg?06:36
ograneither in .xsession-errors06:36
pittiogra: oh, Snapper? that's the internal card06:36
ograit flips back to that after the time 06:36
ograi can select the headset and hear sound again ...06:37
ograthen after 30sec up to 1.5mins it flips back again06:37
sivangbddebian: maybe we can just wait with those and stack them up, and then do them in mass once the transition is over?06:37
pittiogra: do you have esd running?06:37
pittiogra: do you get the same behaviour without esd?06:37
dholbachseb128: woohoo - seems like the 'themes' problem gets solved for us: some of the unmaintained themes were stripped from 2.15.4 :-)06:41
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pittiogra_: did esd kill your session? :)06:41
ogra_i hate hate hate broadcom06:41
ogra_no my regular 2h network crash happened06:41
=== pitti pats ogra_
ogra_thats definately my last apple06:42
pittiogra_: it works just wonderfully here since pre-dapper...06:42
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ograpitti, hmm, now the headest is selected all the time if i start g-s-p but sound only comes out of the speakers ...06:43
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pittiogra: well, without esd you have to restart the player06:44
ograbut i get errors now 06:44
pittiogra: esd can switch on the fly, but not apps using libasound directly06:44
ograALSA lib conf.c:3479:(_snd_config_evaluate) function snd_func_refer returned error: No such file or directory06:44
ograALSA lib conf.c:3947:(snd_config_expand) Evaluate error: No such file or directory06:44
ograALSA lib pcm.c:2146:(snd_pcm_open_noupdate) Unknown PCM dmix:CARD=Snapper,FORMAT=S1606:44
ogra/usr/bin/esd: Kein Prozess beendet06:44
ografunnily snapper is selected and plays sound :)06:44
ograi see that error if i try to switch cards in g-s-p06:45
ogranot using esd doesnt change the bahavior btw, it still flips back to snapper06:46
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ogra(oh and i'm using totem-gstreamer as player ... esd shouldnt affect that at all)06:52
fabbioneKeybuk: i don't care.. personally. i would prefer to drop as much Ubuntu custom as we can and go Debian and iirc in dapper i did a last minute merge that was taking us very close to that06:55
fabbioneKeybuk: *probably* we can just sync06:56
=== bddebian dist-upgrades his machine at works and crosses his fingers :-)
Keybukfabbione: we have a bug-fix patch so we can't sync07:00
fabbioneKeybuk: ok :)07:00
Keybukand I got the patch from the Debian BTS in the first place, so it's not a candidate for pushing to Debian :p07:00
bddebianBoy that sounds familiar07:01
fabbioneKeybuk: hehe07:02
glatzorping doko07:02
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DaSkreechWho was working on the usplash for dapper?07:03
glatzorDaSkreech: artowrk or code?07:04
DaSkreechErmm code I should think07:04
dokoglatzor: just speak up07:05
DaSkreechI wanted to find out why the countdown on shutdown was repalced with a countup07:05
glatzorHi doko. I worked on gnome-app-install, that is written in python. I finally tested the app with atk enabled and it crashes with "Illegal instruction"07:06
DaSkreechWhere can I find the changelogs so I can see if a reason was given?07:07
dokoglatzor: nice :)07:07
LaserJockDaSkreech: http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/u/usplash/07:08
glatzordoko: I am on a dapper powerpc. Do you have got any idea? I found some older bug reports using google. But either they haven't been answered at all or wer closed with "we think the new version of python fixes this"07:08
DaSkreechLaserJock: Thanks07:08
pittiG0SUB: ping07:08
dokoglatzor: are you able to verify on a non-powerpc architecture?07:09
glatzordoko: No :/07:09
glatzorBut I could send the packages to anybody who is willing to help :)07:09
dokoglatzor: then please submit a bug report, with a reduced testcase, if possible07:10
pittimdz: ok to upload the cups regression (bug 52390) to dapper-updates?07:10
UbugtuMalone bug 52390 in cupsys "cupsys 1.2.1-0ubuntu1 doesn't support 11.22.33.* network masks" [High,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5239007:10
glatzordoko: I cannot locate the error exactly.07:11
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dokomdz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OpenOfficeL10n is still open should be done.07:21
Keybukpitti: ping? (re hal derooting)07:21
pittihey Keybuk 07:21
Keybukpitti: did we or Debian de-root hal?07:22
pittiKeybuk: I did the initial derooting back in warty07:22
pittiKeybuk: the current architecture (small master instance as root, main process as haldaemon) was done by Debian (sjoerd)07:23
Keybukso that would explain why n-m doesn't work properly a lot of the time :)07:23
Keybuk<policy user="hal">07:23
Keybuk     <allow send_destination="org.freedesktop.NetworkManager"/>07:23
Keybuk     <allow send_interface="org.freedesktop.NetworkManager"/>07:23
Keybuk^ DanW says we need that07:23
pittiKeybuk: ooh07:23
pittiKeybuk: s/hal/haldaemon/07:23
pittiKeybuk: but the current derooting behavior is upstream since hal 0.5.7 (for quite a while now)07:24
mdzpitti: why does that patch use pointer arithmetic instead of simple array subscripting?07:25
Keybukpitti: RH could be using older or re-rooted hal?07:25
pittimdhow do you mean?07:26
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pittimdz: how do you mean?07:26
seb128dholbach: I know, that's a part of the changes we spoke with Thomas during GUADEC07:26
seb128dholbach: he wants to move the accessibility themes to the a11y capplet too07:26
mdzpitti: 07:27
mdz++    unsigned val[4] ; /* IPv4 address values */07:27
pittiKeybuk: hm, RHEL certainly does, but fedora 4 should have the latest hal, too07:27
mdz++    ipcount = sscanf(value, "%u.%u.%u.%u", val + 0, val + 1, val + 2, val + 3);07:27
pittimdz: you mean &val[1]  instead of val+1?07:27
mdzpitti: yes07:27
mdzI see it is just renaming the variable and preserving the style of the old code07:27
pittishould be perfectly equivalent07:27
pittimdz: I don't know the reason07:29
mdzit is, it's just a bit weird07:29
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mdzdoko: does oo.o use hunspell or myspell now?07:31
pittimdz: uploaded, thanks for review; can you ack it in the queue in some minutes?07:32
dokomdz: hunspell, but myspell dicts still work07:32
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mdzslomo_: is bug #52561 related to your changes?07:57
UbugtuMalone bug 52561 in dbus "E: removing Assembly /usr/lib/mono/gac/dbus-sharp/ failed" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5256107:57
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=== ogra kicks edgy badly
=== tseng watches edgy kick back
ivoksit's not edgy's fault! don't08:03
ograit is !08:03
DaSkreechSo that's why it's called kicking the bleeding edge habit08:03
ograwell, indeed i could blame the single apps ... like evo wiping my gpg keys 08:03
ograor gstreamer or whatever for flipping soundcards all the time08:04
ograor broadcom for building crappy wlan cards ...08:04
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ograbut its so much easier to just blame edgy :P08:04
pittiogra: the card is fine, curse at them for not releasing drivers or specs :)08:04
ograpitti, well, i seem to be the only one where the card causes reboots and hardlocks08:05
pittiogra: hm, true, maybe your's is indeed broken physically08:05
slomo_mdz: do you have mono-gac and cli-common 0.4.3?08:05
ograintrestingly it doesnt work at all with the firmware of our fwcutter package 08:05
ograi have to use the one from my os X cd08:06
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=== pitti hands ogra an ethernet cable
slomo_mdz: and does the dll still exist?08:07
ograpitti, no wired ethernet yet in this house08:07
ivoksok, anyone interested in syncing inkscape from sid?08:09
ograivoks, didnt that happen last week already ? 08:09
ograi think it ftbfs08:09
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ivoks0.43 is in edgt08:10
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ivoksah, source is 0.4408:11
ivokssorry for distraction :)08:12
ivokslooks like libpango error08:12
ograpitti, bug 52552, is there a way to get these .xml files into the langpacks ? 08:12
UbugtuMalone bug 52552 in gcompris "only english or german descriptions displayed" [Untriaged,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5255208:12
slomo_mdz: also what was updated before in the same apt run?08:16
pittiogra: no reasonable one ATM; why not just ship them in the application deb?08:18
ograpitti, afaik they are in there ...08:21
pittiogra: ah, I think the locales are just missing08:22
pittiogra: you can't select Catalan if you don't have ca_ES.UTF-8 locale08:22
ograbut the base language pack should have generated them08:22
ograor am i wrong ? 08:22
pittiogra: only if he actually had l-p-es installed08:22
pittierm, l-p-ca, of course08:23
ograwhat about his last comment ?08:23
pittiogra: that sounds like a bug in gcompris proper08:23
ogrado we still support crappy UTF-8@euro stuff ? 08:23
pittiogra: no, UTF-8@euro is evil08:23
ograbut he was offered it in gdm apparently08:24
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ograpitti, btw, if i use xmms to listen to music with direct alsa output, the sound stays at the headset, so i blame the gstreamer layer 08:36
ograbut why do we have a debian skin in xmms by default ? 08:38
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xhakerogra: looks kinda integrated in the distro.. nobody was poked to do a Human kin08:53
pittimdz: can you please release cupsys for dapper-updates?08:53
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ograxhaker, well, if i'd like blue and brushed metal i'd probably not use ubuntu :)08:55
ograbut i know there was a ubuntized theme for it ... i wonder where its gone08:55
xhakerogra: http://anka.org/henrik/humanxmms/08:59
xhakerlook nice09:00
ograthats old, there was an updated one as well ..09:00
ograbut its ccbysa licensed, so we could include it ...09:00
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bddebianDamn, where'd everybody go? :-)09:32
jjessewe left09:32
LaserJockwe are ignoring you09:33
zulall i hear is the basoon playing09:35
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HiddenWolfsivang: ping: system-cleanup-tool, will you make sure it takes a look at ~/.thumbnails, please?09:38
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bddebianLaserJock: Well that I would expect :-)09:49
LaserJockbddebian: lol, you know we love you ;-)09:49
bddebianLaserJock: YOU only love me 'cause I hit your Science packages ;-P10:00
DaSkreechScience Biology or science chemistry?10:01
LaserJockDaSkreech: Science science, but I prefer the chemistry kind ;-)10:01
DaSkreechWell as long as it's Science Fiction :)10:01
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LaserJockbddebian: how has the .desktop battle been going?10:03
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bddebianLaserJock: Actually better than I expected.  Though I did have 1 DD ask "What is a desktop file?" :-)10:09
seb128bddebian: you do push .desktop patches to Debian?10:10
bddebianseb128: Yes, should I not be?10:10
sivangHiddenWolf: could you please add something about it to the spec proposal so I can merge and not forget about it? :)10:10
seb128bddebian: as said by mail I still think you lower the quality of the distribution because you ship something that works only for english people10:10
seb128bddebian: are you an english native speaker? or using an english locale?10:11
HiddenWolfsivang: sure10:11
bddebianseb128: Why do they only use English?  Desktop files can have translations10:11
bddebianI am a native English speaker btw10:11
seb128so you don't notice what you break10:11
seb128bddebian: for the reasons I mentionned by mail, it would require translators to open a bug every time they have an update, would force the maintainer to update the package everytime a translation needs to be changed10:12
bddebianseb128: As opposed to what?10:12
seb128bddebian: few people do track packages specific strings to translate them10:12
seb128opposed to people commiting to the upstream CVS which has a translation team10:13
seb128and having all the translations changed rolled with the new tarballs10:13
seb128system were translated can work directly10:13
seb128by opposition to opening 48 bugs and doing 48 uploads if you want to get 48 translations for your package 10:13
seb128by shipping a .desktop with the package you usually say you don't care about non-english desktops which will have that non-translated entry10:14
seb128because I doubt any maintainer is wanting to do receive a bug every time a translator has a typo to fix or a new translation10:15
bddebianseb128: No, by adding a .desktop file I say it can have a menu entry in Gnome or KDE instead of having to be started from a terminal session10:15
seb128let me start again10:15
seb128seems you missed the point10:15
seb128the place for that is *upstream*10:15
seb128upstream which has translations team10:15
seb128upstream where translators can work without opening bugs for the maintainer and requiring a new upload10:16
bddebianAnd if there is a new upstream "release" because of translations would it not require a new upload?10:16
seb128if you read upstream changelog you will notice "translations update" 10:17
seb128translations are updated with every new version10:17
seb128that's a part of the deal10:17
seb128translators can work between versions to fix whatever they want10:17
slomo_and normally there are no new versions just for new translations10:17
bddebianSo are you also suggesting I should not be including them in Ubuntu packages until they come from Upstream?10:18
bddebianWorks for me10:18
bddebianSo I won't merge my desktop files from Dapper either?10:19
seb128have you read my mail on the list?10:20
seb128the decision is up to you, but I don't think that worth having to create a diff from Debian, especially because it's a non-translated item10:20
seb128that should be sent upstream and waiting for the next version is probably fine usually10:21
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bddebianseb128: Then why did we have such a big push for desktop files?  Or was the intent from the get-go to get them upstream and I somehow missed that?10:25
seb128bddebian: because some MOTU guy decided that was a good idea10:26
seb128and made a wiki page10:26
seb128and other people decided to run with him on that10:26
seb128I already pointed the translations and diff work from Debian issues when you guys started10:27
seb128after that people do what they want ...10:27
seb128you can discuss than a non translated menu item is better than no menu item10:28
bddebianWell I somehow missed that so I apologize10:28
seb128but in any case such patches should go directly upstream10:28
LaserJockseb128: I was unaware of that (though it makes sense) but to a certain extent I feel it is bad for us to ship apps that don't show up in a menu10:28
seb128LaserJock: so send patches upstream10:28
LaserJockseb128: well, for some that might work, others unlikely10:28
seb128you work at the wrong place10:28
LaserJockseb128: your translation argument only works if upstream will translate it10:29
seb128no reason upstream would not accept it if that's a good idea10:29
LaserJockand is alive10:29
seb128if they don't you might ask yourself if you really need it10:29
seb128if you don't send it upstream so send it to Debian10:29
seb128so you don't create hundred of packages diffs due to that10:29
seb128and you make Debian people happier by sending back10:30
seb128and your reduce the MOTU workload10:30
LaserJocksure, that's what we are trying to do10:30
pittislomo_: can you please commit your hal modifications into bzr?10:31
seb128LaserJock: cool then10:31
LaserJockI guess it's a matter of "get it in quick to Ubuntu, then send upstream and wait to sync" or "send upstream and wait for it to trickle down to Ubuntu"10:31
seb128some MOTU seem to not bother to "send upstream"10:32
LaserJockthat, we are trying to correct, for sure. It is a bit of a learning process for some10:33
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seb128cool :)10:33
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darius_Alright, it's been over a month - must bring up bug # 30557 again10:38
Mez!bug 3055710:39
UbugtuMalone bug 30557 in linux-source-2.6.15 "cpu idle time in /proc/stat wrong" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3055710:39
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=== bddebian crawls back in his hole
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mdzpitti: will do11:11
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pittimdz: thanks11:13
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