[12:09] adamant1988: just so you know, Ubuntu will never be commercialized [12:10] I know not ubuntu itself will. [12:10] wow that was bad [12:10] "I know that Ubuntu itself will not" [12:11] much better. [12:11] hehe === adamant1988 has dyslexic tendancies.... [12:11] :) [12:11] yoda, away... as long as you can explain it later [12:11] hmmm [12:12] lol [01:02] hey all :) === rikai [i=rikai@unaffiliated/rikai] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [01:05] hola adamant1988 === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [01:06] I should have a friend coming in momentarily [01:06] he'd like to help with the projects ^_^ === OpticalHeshaki [n=Iheartse@71-36-205-251.eugn.qwest.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [01:07] hi [01:07] there he is [01:07] hey optical I'll brb man [01:12] so whats up guys === darkmatter_ [n=darkmatt@206-163-248-177.yktn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [01:42] anyone here? [01:44] OpticalHeshaki: it's not looking like it [01:44] been pretty quiet here for a while [01:45] except for adamant1988 and nixternal about 1.5 hrs ago :) [01:47] lol [01:47] adam wanted me to help i guess [01:47] lol === darkmatter_ [n=darkmatt@206-163-248-177.yktn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [01:48] well, sadly, it looks like I'm the only one here. and I'm not even involved! ;) [01:56] lol [01:56] well thats cool i guess === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === j_baer [n=baerj@c-24-11-169-4.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === j_baer [n=baerj@c-24-11-169-4.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === j_baer_ [n=baerj@c-24-11-169-4.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === bimberi [n=bimberi@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.bimberi] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === j_baer_ [n=baerj@c-24-11-169-4.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === cosmolax [n=Cosmolax@219-68-130-176.adsl.dynamic.giga.net.tw] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === gaz00 [n=gaz00@S01060015e96c00db.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === rikai [i=rikai@unaffiliated/rikai] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === cosmolax [n=Cosmolax@219-68-130-176.adsl.dynamic.giga.net.tw] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === nixternal_ [n=nixterna@71.194.189.213] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [05:36] hello all. [05:37] nixternal you awake [05:38] i think [05:38] lol [05:38] well make sure [05:38] im not pinching myself, so please don't ask ;) [05:39] I have a query: How focused is the marketing team on spread ubuntu? are any other projects being pitched around or is that our primary focus? [05:39] (I wish we had forums for this instead of a mailing list). [05:39] there are other projects [05:39] Well I had an idea for how we can generate some usefull marketing material (testimonials and such). [05:40] Spread Ubuntu being the largest right now...but there is the Magazine, Press Team, and whatever other ones you can come up with [05:40] and the materials could well be used to create adverts etc. [05:41] add that to the agenda for this weeks meeting [05:42] Why not talk to users from all over the place (america, etc.) find a few that are willing to give out a minimal amount of information about themselves (name (first), age, computing experience) and set get them started with ubuntu and have them blog about their experiences daily, any opinions etc. (we could set the blogs up for them). [05:42] we could quote these blogs, use them as official testimonial for adverts etc. [05:43] somebody has beaten you to the punch [05:43] oh yeah? [05:43] I figured [05:43] the anthropology spec [05:43] it's a pretty elementary idea, but I didn't know someone had done it. [05:44] jsgotangco knows more about that also i believe [05:44] as long as it's being done I guess lol. [05:44] well...you can look over the info and see if it is the same, or similar to yours [05:45] link? [05:45] you may be able to collaborate with the guy and put it to use for us [05:45] he is really doing the work for himself i believe..but we will be open to using it im sure [05:45] one sec [05:45] i just asked for it [05:46] that could be, I'd be happy to work with him on it. [05:46] (I'd also be happy if there were forums to use... the mailing list is hard to keep track of...) [05:46] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndreasLloyd <- he is the person doing it [05:47] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFieldwork <- the actual spec [05:49] that doesn't seem quite like what I'm doing [05:50] he's gathering numbers, I'm more interested in the opinions and testimonial. [05:51] and I'm less interested in the science of it, however useful the data will be, it's the opinions and the 'faces' of these people that would be important for my uses. [05:54] well, maybe you could still collaborate with him, as he is seeing the 'faces' of the people [05:55] he is doing all the work in the field [05:57] perhaps... I'll make it a point to get in contact with him === gaz00 [n=gaz00@S01060015e96c00db.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [06:04] hrmmm yeah I'm emailing him now. === bimberi [n=bimberi@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.bimberi] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [06:51] hello bimberi [06:52] hi adamant1988, nice work on that logo! [06:54] you like it? [06:54] I'm suprised, I didn't think it was very good... but thanks ^_^ [06:55] yep, as i said on-list (David Symons) [06:55] ^_^ [06:56] definitely better than my Orange Sunglasses ;P [06:56] haha ^_^ [06:57] I'm just trying to help out [06:57] I wish there were forums instead of a mailing list though [06:57] the Launchpad logo could be just the arrow shwoosh [06:58] the arrow needs a lot of work [06:58] s/logo/emblem/ [06:59] yeah? [06:59] How do you reply on the mailing list? [06:59] do you just reply to the person or what? [07:00] adamant1988: fair enough, i feel that wiki+list+irc is enough myself [07:00] yeah, just the forum makes info managment a bit easier than the list IMHO [07:01] Bimberi, I had an idea and I want to pitch it to the marketing team but let me throw it at you first [07:02] My 'idea' is to get a group of people (however many possible) to start using Ubuntu and blogging their experiences with it on let's say... blogger. We could use that info for testimonial, in the immediate advertising needs and long term it could be used to determine what the end user needs and does on the computer === OpticalHeshaki [n=Iheartse@71-36-205-251.eugn.qwest.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [07:02] hello? [07:03] get a picture and a paragraph on the person, and that will show that Ubuntu for humans is actually being used by humans [07:03] and that they are enjoying it. [07:03] hey optical :) [07:03] Optical do you want to join the marketing team like seriously? because I can give you some instructions on adding yourself to the launchpad etc. [07:04] adamant1988: i use Evolution, and it has a "List Reply" command (CTRL-L) [07:04] that would be cool [07:04] bimberi, it would be nice if I could get a free email account that let me sync to programs like evolution =\ [07:04] ok optical let me get the link for you [07:05] adamant1988: by default (reply button) emails from the ubuntu-marketing will go to the sender only [07:05] https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-marketing (just opt to join the team, you'll have to create a launchpad account though) [07:05] sure [07:06] sure what bimberi? [07:08] adamant1988: i saw that earlier. It's an excellent idea. I'm sure that Ubuntu and OSS in general could do with as much usability feedback as possible [07:08] adamant1988: you might cut down the willing participants right there :) [07:08] adamant1988: also, what if they hate it? [07:09] or get frustrated with it [07:09] We don't quote them, and the community learns from it. [07:09] hi OpticalHeshaki [07:09] hi [07:09] im all done registering [07:09] what do i do now [07:09] ok the next thing is to get on the mailing list (there is a lot of registering to do ) [07:09] lol ok [07:09] im ready [07:09] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing [07:10] Add yourself in there, you will want to create a section just for the marketing team letters because they add up quick. [07:10] adamant1988: gmail has POP/SMTP capability [07:10] bimberi, the way I see it is that ubuntu needs this feedback... if it's bad then obviously Ubuntu has to do something.. If we can't use it for marketing we can use it for learning. [07:11] It's a win-win regardless of what is said in the blogs, and we'll have to make sure to get enough people involved that if a few don't like it we have alternatives. [07:11] k done with that [07:12] ok the next thing you need to do is register to work with the wiki at ubuntu.com [07:12] I *think* it uses your launchpad account. [07:12] ha, try ubuntu-users for volume :) [07:12] Well, my goal is to get to people who HAVEN'T tried ubuntu yet. [07:12] bimberi, try bzr-dev ;) [07:12] u got a link to that [07:12] adam [07:13] ubuntu.com [07:13] then click on the wiki tab [07:13] and try to login with your launchpad account [07:13] adamant1988: good or bad it will be useful for marketing, the choice is whether to use it for _promotion_ [07:13] Yeah, it also tells us a bit about that particular market [07:13] what their needs are, and how we can show them that ubuntu meets those needs. [07:14] k im loged in [07:14] what now [07:14] I also think we should stop using the word linux, and stop using any other Jargon in our advertising efforts. [07:14] Optical you can't really do a whole lot right now, but if you go to the marketing team wiki you can kind of catch up on where the projects are at and all of that. [07:15] yea i figured but what do i do now im logged in and im lost [07:15] lol [07:15] you definitely want to consider getting in with the art team as well (but you'll spend a lot of time doing icons and such as well as other stuff) [07:15] adamant1988: it should kept jargon-minimal yes, do you mean just use Ubuntu. Linux does have some recognition out there I feel [07:15] Linux does but you really have to ask yourself... [07:15] the people who don't know Ubuntu is linux, are they going to care? [07:16] I'm in that camp of people, if I hadn't come to linux and then ubuntu I wouldn't care that ubuntu was linux based. [07:16] i wanted to be on the art team [07:16] that would own [07:16] were do i go to do that [07:16] ok let me find that for you [07:16] also join #ubuntu-artwork [07:16] i think that's it. [07:16] it's a pretty slow channel and they're not doing much art lately [07:17] thats about to change [07:17] :D [07:17] haha :) [07:17] just be prepared for lots of small graphics work too [07:17] icons and such [07:17] thats cool [07:17] is there any oficial way to join the art team [07:18] adamant1988: i wonder how big that "camp" is? and how to find out? [07:18] optical ask in the channel [07:18] OpticalHeshaki, try launhc pad [07:18] i already did the launchpady thing [07:18] bimberi, it's pretty sizable, most everyone that I've gotten to use Ubuntu was just put-off with the word linux. [07:19] adamant1988: funny, i've had the opposite experience [07:19] Yes it uses the linux kernel, and I think that should be noted on the website and such, or in adverts targeted to tech users... but most end-users want something that works without having to research it all. [07:20] some had even heard that linux was less prone to viruses/spyware etc., which is the main source of pain [07:20] A lot of end users think linux itself is an operating system like windows. they're not aware of the distro system === OpticalHeshaki [n=Iheartse@71-36-205-251.eugn.qwest.net] has left #ubuntu-marketing [] [07:22] When you say linux it puts ubuntu under a big umbrella with a lot of other distros... I don't think it's our job to promote the use of mepis, suse, and all of those. Just ubuntu. [07:23] oh yes, can't disagree there. Just don't thinl that linux needs to be dropped totally (if that's what you're saying) [07:23] i missed most of this discussion, but its called 'ubuntu linux', how can we not market it as such o_0 [07:23] I'm just saying it needs to be less pushed. [07:24] The website just says Ubuntu... [07:24] although the quote is linux for humans (needs changed imo) === Kamping_Kaiser remembers the good old days of ubuntulinux.org === bimberi does to [07:24] o [07:24] For instance why not make a page of the site about ubuntus technical specs and include that it's linux based and such there? [07:25] If people want to know what makes ubuntu up we shouldn't hide it, but we shouldn't be pushing it down their throats either. [07:26] i dont agree wityh your argument, the quote 'linux ofr human beings' isnt forcing anything down their throat === Kamping_Kaiser was going to say 'what, are you in marketing or something', then looked at the channel name :$ [07:26] yeah but then they say "What's linux" and that opens up a whole can of worms right there. [07:27] 'its a different way of running your computer' [07:27] bbl. doing stuff [07:27] There's a rule for websites called the 3-click rule. users shouldn't have to click more than 3 times to get to the information they want, apparently that 4th click is a deal breaker for many. [07:28] I base a lot of ideals off that rule... things should be made quick and easy as possible... and if we keep saying linux, that's a lot of searching for info that they don't want to bother with. [07:28] it shouldn't be hidden, but why make it obvious? [07:29] Why can't Ubuntu be it's own OS? (think mac os X). [07:30] a lot of people (msyelf included) ignorantly think/thought that linux was an operating system with some kind of a center to it like you could install "Linux" not "Mepis" "Ubuntu" etc. It just makes users lives a lot easier if they see Ubuntu as an operating system instead of a subset of linux. === Cody [n=pumpers@d4-243.rt-bras.ob.centurytel.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing === Cody [n=pumpers@d4-243.rt-bras.ob.centurytel.net] has left #ubuntu-marketing [] [07:31] adamant1988: I can see your point to some extent. I think what you need to do is come up with alternatives for people to look at. [07:31] explain. [07:32] well an alternative for 'linux for human beings' for a start [07:32] Ah. I think the human beings idea is great. [07:32] but it could just be "Computing for human beings" or something [07:34] Ubuntu has been pretty successful with its formula so far. But some research into where the take-up has come from - existing linux users / windows users - would be useful [07:34] And instead of Ubuntu linux, why not say Ubuntu OS? === bimberi was an existing Linux user [07:35] I was a windows user who spent a month researching linux and distro hopping [07:36] then your POV might be more valid than mine :P [07:36] My point of view is probably closer to that of a windows power user/end user. [07:37] Most of my ideals for the marketing are for Ubuntu in the home, and Ubuntu for the end user. [07:38] Really, I think Ubuntu would go far as a standalone OS, even commercially in boxed sets (which is something I want to see done for Ubuntu, manuals and all). [07:38] http://home.comcast.net/~nixternal/images/misc/poster/poster1.png [07:38] draft 1 ^^ [07:39] Ubuntu has gone a long way as a linux distro... but I am of the opinion that if Ubuntu didn't intentionally place itself in the distro subset it would go farther. [07:40] again I use mac os x as the standard for that... [07:41] Everyone I talk to would use a mac just to get away from windows, but for the price... Ubuntu could supply that market need. [07:41] I know very well that if I could afford it I'd be on a Mac right now. === damned [n=vpol@prior.lanck.net] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [07:55] adamant1988: the issue with leaving the Linux distro set is that you end up with confusion as to what Ubuntu is [07:55] which is why that information should be available if someone wants it [07:55] If people don't ask what makes up Ubuntu, why tell them? [07:56] telling people up front is both a help and hindrance [07:56] if a market (the server market in particular) is interested in the fact that Ubuntu is linux based, then make sure that they know it. [07:56] I suggest we stay with calling us Linux for now [07:56] But the home/end-user market, probaby doesn't care and it just serves to confuse. === Madpilot [n=brian@ubuntu/member/madpilot] has joined #ubuntu-marketing [07:56] I'm actually writing a pretty detailed blog on my opinion on the matter right now [07:57] adamant1988: actually, I would argue not calling LInux would be worse, because that market has some knowledge of Linux [07:57] I'm very adamant that Ubuntu could be a great standalone OS, and could fill a very important rule in the market. [07:57] here is how I imagine is playing out: [07:57] Person 1: I have this great OS, called Ubuntu [07:58] person 2: Great, what is that? Is it windows [07:58] ? [07:58] No, it is Ubuntu [07:58] back and forth until person 1 says it is Linux and person 2 says ah! [07:58] See, when a person ASKS, they should be told. [07:58] most of them are going to ask [07:59] But we shouldn't go "TRY UBUNTU GNU/LINUX based on DEBIAN" [07:59] that's 3 names too many. [07:59] we don't say that [07:59] we say Ubuntu, a Linux-based operating system [07:59] That's fine because it seperates it from linux by saying it's just based. [07:59] there is only 1 reference to Linux on the front page of Ubuntu [07:59] other places it talks about Ubuntu [07:59] But why not say this [08:00] "Ubuntu OS" and somewhere in the advert "Based on linux so you know it's stable and secure". [08:00] whoa back up [08:00] ads? [08:00] I'm playing this out as an ad [08:00] our cd cases only say Ubuntu [08:00] I am saying: We already refer to Linux is all the right places [08:00] Actually they say Ubuntu "linux for human beings" [08:01] we are a variation of Linux [08:01] and Mac OSX is a variation of Unix. [08:01] so? [08:01] there is a lot of difference between OS X and FreeBSD [08:02] They don't bother parading it unless someone cares enough to look it up, and they're doing better than linux is. [08:02] there is not a lot between Fedora and Ubuntu, for instance [08:02] adamant1988, I doubt OSX is doing well merely because they're sort of hiding the fact that they're *nix based... [08:02] OS X is doing well by providing a quality product [08:03] No, what I'm saying is they're doing better, and they're not confusing the end users by using jargon like *nix and all that. [08:03] we are not either [08:03] we mention Linux once [08:03] My main issue with it is in the 'slogan' [08:03] it is what we are [08:03] past that it's not a big issue. [08:03] the biggest perception with Linux is that it is "hard" [08:04] or that it's all CLI [08:04] our slogan very effectively helps destroy that [08:04] thats because osx doesn't have enough *nix in it in the first place [08:04] but are we trying to further ubuntu or linux? [08:04] both [08:04] 2, most osx users have been using mac for more then 10 years also [08:04] we win when Fedora wins, etc. [08:05] we are not competing against Fedora, we are competing against Windows and OS X [08:05] nixternal, there ain't no loyalists like Mac loyalists, IME [08:05] no doubt [08:06] im glad them loyalists enjoy drm also [08:06] heh [08:06] regardless, I see no reason to drop the one reference to Linux in our marketing === nixternal watches as the osx share plummits now that linux and windows can be installed on a mac [08:08] adamant1988: realistically, we are also not changing our slogan at this point [08:08] I know I wasn't expecting an immediate change [08:08] But I think it should be done at some point. [08:09] I just don't see why. We all win when Linux wins [08:09] think beyond Ubuntu for a sec [08:09] very person using some variant of Linux is a net win for all of us. If they come around and use Ubuntu, that is nice [08:10] Burgundavia, umm, s/very/every? === bimberi notes that Bug #1 says nothing about Ubuntu's market share [08:12] Linux doesn't win as long as the process of switching to it is so difficult. [08:13] and i'm not saying it should - if someone comes away from windows, tries Ubuntu but then moves on to another linux-based distro then that's great [08:13] I'm not a computing idiot by any means and it took me almost a month to find a distro (infact I only found one because dapper released). [08:14] adamant1988, in my experience, most people have a fair bit of diffuculty using *any* computer. They don't seem to have much more difficulty w/ Ubuntu than XP or Win98, from what I've seen... [08:14] Madpilot: +1 [08:14] No No, I mean the switch [08:14] hmm, evidently I can only spell "difficulty" right half the time ;) [08:15] Madpilot: you are definitely not the worst for typos ;) [08:15] Right now people go "I want to switch to linux" then they google it looking for a place to buy it only to find out it's not purchasable half the time. So they have to wade through the list of distros until they finally download and burn one that they like. [08:15] adamant1988, "it took me almost a month to find a distro" already tells me that you know far, far more about computers than 95%+ of the world... [08:15] I don't mean actual use difficulty. [08:16] adamant1988: but if we reduce ubuntu's linux-ness then they won't find it if they search that way [08:17] I doubt it would be removed from distrowatch, and the communities would still be talking about it and suggesting it (which is how I came to it) [08:17] i will tell you this...for me switching to linux was far easier then switching to mac [08:17] and i did my switch 12 years ago [08:17] For me the switch to linux was painful and time consuming. [08:17] Dapper stepped in at just the right time. [08:17] because I was about to give up [08:18] if mac is so hell bent on having a portion of bsd's kernel, then why do they hide terminal? [08:18] regardless, most people are not going to go to the effort you took, adamant1988 === bimberi is circumspect about projecting his own experience too widely [08:19] Burgundavia, exactly my point.. the answer should be VERY easy to find and the switch should be painless [08:19] bimberi, don't be shy - we're all speculating madly on highly personal sets of inadequate data :) (at least some of us will admit that, though!) [08:19] right now im mad because my leather chair i have had for about 10 years just busted to the point where i went flying backwards at 1am and landing in the no man's zone under a desk [08:19] adamant1988: how does not calling Ubuntu Linux help with that? [08:21] What I'm saying is it could be set apart... Ubuntu is great and it's gaining fame quickly... I don't see why people couldn't say "Oh I'll try Ubuntu" [08:21] When someone says "I'll try linux" without some serious determination they'll probably give up before long.. and I don't think that's how it should be. [08:22] adamant1988, most people probably actually start out saying, "I'm sick of XP's viruses and malware!" and slowly move on from there [08:22] +! [08:22] +1, even [08:22] if they are serious, they are going to do research about it [08:23] then they are going to hit our website and if it doesn't mention linux, they are going to be confused [08:23] I said that it should be mentioned [08:23] it is [08:23] in our slogan and our generic description [08:23] just not placed on the table in plain view, put it in the desk draw. [08:23] drawer even. [08:24] what specifics do you mean? [08:24] do you want to drop "linux for human beings"? [08:25] I'm saying that if you said "Ubuntu" and didn't bother mentioning Linux, helped make Ubuntu a stand-a-lone os that the site very clearly states is based on Linux. it might grow faster than if people keep coming to it via the channels of distro watch and linuxquestions.org [08:27] It's still linux and people who care to find out will find out, but it just simplifies things a bit more. [08:27] sorry, I don't follow [08:28] But then again I'm also the guy who would like to see Ubuntu on shelves at Wal-Mart so I guess I'm not the ideal person for ideas for Ubuntu. [08:28] people will only come from those sites because it is linux [08:28] Ubuntu on the shelves at Walmart is rather useless, unless there is a piece of hardware wrapped around it [08:29] In my community it would be worth something, we don't have the best market for computer or even linux around here, and an alternative OS selling at $30 even would become popular quickly. [08:29] not really [08:29] why? [08:29] I'd LOVE to see ubuntu preinstalled on computers here too.. [08:29] it has been tried before [08:30] boxed copies of Linux (of any variant) have always sold very badly [08:30] Linux IS NOT just another piece of boxed software people can take home [08:30] I'm saying all of this in the eventually pretense [08:30] and yes, that includes Ubuntu [08:30] it's another distribution channel. There might be segments well targetted that way. [08:30] IMO the market isn't ready for all-free software. [08:30] that has nothing to do with it [08:31] look, all I do all day is sell Linux === Kamping_Kaiser wonders what adamant1988 has past personal (as in, his own) experiance to backup his claims [08:31] btw nixternal , like your png :) [08:31] whether it is Ubuntu or DiscoverStation, I run into the same issues [08:31] ty Kamping_Kaiser [08:31] :) [08:31] Kamping_Kaiser, my towns experience I'm a big linux pusher in the town. [08:32] you know what hurts us more than Linux? OpenOffice [08:32] adamant1988, you might also bear in mind that changes that work for you wont work for me (maybe etc) [08:32] people are terrified of losing data [08:32] chaning the slogan for exqmple /does not/ help the way my mates destribute ubuntu [08:32] I'm aware that there are different markets and such. [08:33] does open office lose data that much? [08:33] no, but people fear it does [08:33] Oh, good, I haven't looked into it [08:33] I don't lose sales over Linux, I lose them over OpenOffice [08:33] it is very annoying [08:34] Burgundavia: Yes! i'm finding the main weighing up that occurs is viruses/spyware vs perfect MSOffice format compatibility. The latter is one of the first questions asked and the honest answer is no, not perfect. Lost [08:34] i only find oo.o formatting differently to mso, never had data loss thoug [08:34] funny that the most common question I get is what the office suite it, not what the underlying OS Is [08:34] bimberi, i usualy try and make it into a feature ;0 [08:34] oh so there's data loss in the ms format compatibility? [08:34] Kamping_Kaiser, some people count "loss of perfectly tweaked fiddly formatting" as "data loss"... I've run into that myself w/ OOo [08:34] note that Discoverstation hides it linux roots [08:34] not data loss, format loss [08:34] adamant1988, there was with 1.x, i havent tried on 2 [08:34] adamant1988: there maybe. It is mostly a fear thing [08:35] my resume done in word looks horrible in OOo [08:35] Madpilot, true. my current work has never really invovled oo.o, so i have no vested intrest in it. tafe will probably change that :| [08:36] nixternal, do you have funky formatting, or what causes it? [08:36] hrmmm nixternal I'll have to put that to the test, I'm doing a big Ubuntu project in my school. [08:36] truthfully..i use OOo for everything...i let my clients know, if it doesn't look right, i suggest you get OOo then ;) [08:36] adamant1988: I am telling you from real world, hard-earned experience that calling us Linux really doesn't hurt us [08:36] Apparently Microsoft is going to have ODT compatibity, but all i've seen is talk about Office reading it. Nothing about Save As... [08:36] Kamping_Kaiser: it is usually funky formatting [08:36] if you do regular type stuff with, simple letters, memo's and what not, it is great...but when you get into tables, and special page formats, it is done with [08:36] I almost always just use OOo's PDF exporter when I'm sending stuff out - that way it looks nearly identical everywhere, and people can't mess with it ;) [08:37] oh, ok. my cv is lacking in fuknky formatting [08:37] and you have to make sure you have msttcorefonts installed, otherwise everything will look bad [08:37] Madpilot: that is what i do now, just to keep my clients happy [08:37] Madpilot: do you find that even small documents are really large though. 2 pages of black and white text -> 150K ! [08:38] i haven't noticed that at all bimberi, but i will look into it now that you said something [08:38] nixternal, no i dont. but i usualy export to pdf before sending, (in honesty, to otehr linux users) [08:38] bimberi, I've never really paid attention, actually. Let me check a few docs here [08:38] bimberi, yeh, i found that :( [08:38] ok Burgundavia I'll take your word for it [08:39] i just compared ms vs OOo in size...in a spreadsheet.... ms = 84480 OOo = 14712 ....winner = OOo there [08:39] actually, one of the biggest things we can do for desktop Linux right now is to promote OpenOffice [08:39] bimberi, you've got a point - my 26Kb .odt file is apparently a 103Kb PDF from OOo - but don't forget that a PDF has far more embedded info than an odt file [08:39] nixternal: sorry, wasn't clear - i mean ODT vs PDF exported from OOo [08:40] ahhhh [08:40] point Madpilot , all the fonts and whatnot are embedded ? [08:40] nixternal, I've noticed that too - a 500kb Excel file a friend sent me shrunk to 80Kb in OOo Calc format ;) [08:40] Kamping_Kaiser, yeah, parts of the fonts, at least [08:40] Burgundavia: i love OOo...i couldn't use anything else i don't think...Koffice isn't even close YET [08:41] Madpilot: that's not surprising either :) [08:41] I hate OOo tbh [08:41] lol [08:41] Burgundavia: so does Linux iirc [08:41] Burgundavia, what office replacement do you suggest then? [08:41] *Linus === Kamping_Kaiser hates office suites in general. oo.o is at least open and portable [08:41] nothing, because there is nothing [08:41] Kamping_Kaiser: exactly [08:41] you know what...i think Joey Stanford, aka Rinchen, works with OOo somehow/someway [08:41] like on the payroll [08:42] I am waiting for the gnome office people to shit or get off the pot [08:42] lol [08:42] lol [08:42] lol [08:42] there's always koffice... === adamant1988 backs away slowly [08:42] portable? === Kamping_Kaiser puts big cross [08:43] koffice is great..if you don't want any interaction what so ever with ms office [08:43] lol [08:44] the next version of koffice however, is supposed to finally have ms office support [08:44] i can't wait to see that [08:44] first time supporting office, i bet it is god awfull [08:44]