[02:15] <bddebian> Damn cernlib is a pig
[03:12] <linuxmonkey> hey do u guys know if the commercial repo is x86 only at the moment?
[03:27] <bddebian> Bah, fsck ipac-nc
[03:27] <bddebian> Err ipac-ng even
[03:48] <Hobbsee> hi all
[03:49] <zul> hey
[03:49] <bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
[03:49] <bddebian> Hobbsee: Do the ipac-ng merge for me will ya? :-)
[03:50] <Hobbsee> bddebian: hah.  i take it it's a beast?
[03:50] <bddebian> No, just seems to be poorly maintained
[03:50] <Hobbsee> bddebian: ah great.
[05:29] <Hobbsee> if there's a new package in debian unstable, how long do we have to wait for it to hit ubuntu edgy?  (libsynaptics-dev) - is there any way we can speed that up?
[05:29] <Hobbsee> sync request?
[05:31] <Amaranth> Hobbsee: does it need a merge?
[05:31] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: i'm assuming just a sync
[05:31] <Amaranth> Hobbsee: that's automagic
[05:32] <Amaranth> if the ubuntu package had changes they have to be merged manually
[05:32] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: yeah, but how long does it take for this automagicness to occur, is my question
[05:32] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: it's new in debian, never in ubuntu
[05:32] <Amaranth> it'd better happen soon, UVF is soon
[05:34] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: exactly.  and it's a new b-d of a package that's assigned to me to update
[05:34] <Amaranth> Hobbsee: request it
[05:35] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: will do.  will test that it builds, etc, first.
[05:44] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: two syncs have to be in two separate bug reports?
[05:44] <Hobbsee> seeing as one depends on the other?
[05:44] <Amaranth> yeah
[05:44] <Hobbsee> right
[05:45] <Amaranth> they change the bug title and subscribe some special thing that does the sync
[05:45] <Amaranth> so you want separate bugs
[05:45] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: yeah, okay.  you a MOTU by any chance?
[05:45] <Amaranth> nope
[05:45] <Hobbsee> didnt think so
[05:48] <bddebian> Well why the heck not?  You two need to get in gear ;-P
[05:53] <Hobbsee> bddebian: hehe
[05:55] <Hobbsee> bddebian: can you ack a couple of syncs for me please?
[05:55] <Hobbsee> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/52481 and https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/52482
[05:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 52481 in Ubuntu "[Edgy MoM]  Please sync libsynaptics 0.14.4d-1 from Debian Sid" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed] 
[05:59] <Hobbsee> or any other motu around
[06:03] <bddebian> Hobbsee: Ack them?
[06:03] <Hobbsee> bddebian: approve them
[06:03] <Hobbsee> bddebian: i'm not a MOTU yet, remember?
[06:03] <bddebian> Hobbsee: You shouldn't need approval, just subscribe ubuntu-archive
[06:03] <Hobbsee> then subscribe the archive, if you're feeling kind
[06:04] <Hobbsee> bddebian: they made us have approval before
[06:04] <bddebian> Oh, hmm
[06:08] <Hobbsee> bddebian: thanks.
[06:08] <bddebian> NP
[06:28] <bddebian> Laser_away or crimsun: I'm heading to bed shortly but I think I figured out maxima's problem.  gcl needs a rebuild against newer libraries, then maxima builds fine.
[06:54] <bddebian> This old man has to go to bed.  Gnight folks
[06:54] <Hobbsee> bye old man :P
[09:18] <sivang> morning
[09:19] <Hobbsee> evening sivang
[09:19] <Hobbsee> must be time for lunch.
[09:20] <Kamping_Kaiser> hey sivang :)
[09:22] <sivang> hey Kamping_Kaiser , how's it going?
[09:22] <Kamping_Kaiser> not bad mate, self?
[09:22] <Kamping_Kaiser> getting stuff done? :)
[09:22] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi dholbach
[09:22] <Hobbsee> hi dholbach!
[09:22] <dholbach> good morning
[09:22] <dholbach> hey Kamping_Kaiser, Hobbsee!
[09:22] <sivang> morning dholbach !
[09:23] <Kamping_Kaiser> :)
[09:23] <dholbach> hi sivang
[09:23] <sivang> Kamping_Kaiser: Yeah, will start with home-user-backup soon and you'll be able to do some more testing. If you check the new UI you can see there's already a workaround to the device detection issues as there's going to be somewhat changed workflow.
[09:24] <Kamping_Kaiser> sivang, ah, if you have started doing changes i'll add a bzr up/pull (whatever it uses) to my otehr cronjobs :)
[09:29] <sivang> Kamping_Kaiser: not yet :) but intend to start today at least
[09:30] <Kamping_Kaiser> sivang, ok :) ping me when theres a change and i'll whack in a new cronjob.
[09:30] <Kamping_Kaiser> <3 cron
[09:44] <AnAnt> when does Ubuntu sync with Debian ?
[09:44] <slomo_> AnAnt: now ;)
[09:44] <dholbach> AnAnt: in times, when we're not in upstream version freeze
[09:44] <dholbach> ie now
[09:45] <AnAnt> slomo_: well, in Debian there is tor 0.1.0.22, yet I see that Edgy is still using 0.1.0.16
[09:45] <dholbach> AnAnt: you want to do the merge?
[09:45] <slomo_> because nobody merged it yet... as it has ubuntu changes it has to be done manually
[09:47] <AnAnt> do it how ?
[09:47] <AnAnt> oh
[09:47] <dholbach> take the current debian source and the ubuntu source, merge the changes
[09:48] <AnAnt> and put them in REVU ?
[09:48] <dholbach> for example
[09:48] <AnAnt> dholbach: there isn't another way, is it ?
[09:49] <dholbach> another way like what?
[09:50] <AnAnt> dholbach: you said for example, so I thought that there may be other ways
[09:51] <dholbach> sure, if you upload it to some other random host and get your merge reviewed and uploaded, that's fine too
[09:51] <AnAnt> ic
[09:53] <Gloubiboulga> morning MOTU{s, hopefuls}
[09:55] <AnAnt> btw, when do uploads get reviewed ?
[09:56] <imbrandon> AnAnt, mostly as motus get time or someone is "poked" about one in particular
[10:00] <AnAnt> what is that .cvsignore file that I see in debian/ directories for ?
[10:01] <dholbach> hey Gloubiboulga
[10:01] <Gloubiboulga> hi dholbach, gnumeric is ready for a review
[10:01] <dholbach> Gloubiboulga: rock and roll
[10:01] <dholbach> Gloubiboulga: it works ok?
[10:02] <Gloubiboulga> yes, both gnome and gtk variants
[10:02] <Gloubiboulga> but libgoffice is not on the repos yet
[10:02] <dholbach> Gloubiboulga: i promised to do two other merges now, can you send me a mail with the location?
[10:02] <dholbach> ah ok
[10:02] <dholbach> same place as last time?
[10:02] <Gloubiboulga> exact same place
[10:02] <dholbach> super
[10:02] <Gloubiboulga> who should I poke about goffice?
[10:02] <dholbach> i'm happy to look at it
[10:03] <Gloubiboulga> it's built on malone (for i386 only)
[10:03] <Gloubiboulga> on launchpad*
[10:28] <imbrandon_> dholbach, ping
[10:29] <dholbach> imbrandon: pong
[10:30] <imbrandon_> hey i got a quick question, i'm doing a merge ( kdissert ) and the only change from debian was dh_iconcache so i just unpacked the debian version from MoM and made the changes and versioned it correct  but ...
[10:30] <imbrandon_> it build fine and works, but when i goto debuild -S -sa it compains about not finding the _source.changes
[10:30] <imbrandon_> to i need to use like dpkg-genchanges ot soemthing ?
[10:31] <imbrandon_> s/ot/or
[10:31] <dholbach> what is the error message?
[10:31] <imbrandon_> s/build fine/build fine with just debuild/
[10:31] <imbrandon_> umm one sec
[10:32] <imbrandon_> http://pastebin.ca/83923
[10:34] <dholbach> you shouldn't have to use sudo
[10:34] <imbrandon_> hrm ok one sec
[10:35] <dholbach> debuild uses fakeroot
[10:36] <imbrandon_> w00t thats all it was thanks dholbach
[10:36] <imbrandon_> heh /me is dumb sometimes
[10:36] <dholbach> no, you're not
[10:36] <dholbach> happy to have helped out :)
[10:37] <ajmitch> hi
[10:37] <imbrandon_> heya ajmitch
[10:47] <imbrandon_> ajmitch, got time to upload a merge ?
[10:48] <ajmitch> still in .au using someone else's system
[10:48] <ajmitch> so probably not right now :)
[10:48] <imbrandon_> ahh ok , /me pokes dholbach ;)
[10:48] <imbrandon_> no biggie thanks ajmitch
[10:48] <imbrandon_> ;)
[10:49] <dholbach> i'm quite busy myself
[10:49] <dholbach> but which one is it?
[10:49] <imbrandon_> that kdessert
[10:49] <imbrandon_> dissert
[10:49] <dholbach> hmmm, dessert :-p
[10:49] <dholbach> url?
[10:49] <imbrandon_> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2659
[10:49] <dholbach> i'll do it in a bit
[10:49] <imbrandon_> okie ;) thanks
[10:49] <dholbach> i'm busy with the metacity merge
[10:49] <imbrandon_> np , i'll start on the next one ;)
[10:50] <dholbach> rock on
[10:50] <imbrandon_> will that MoM page update when its uploaded ?
[10:55] <dholbach> yeah, but not instantly
[10:55] <dholbach> it will take a while
[10:55] <dholbach> package uploaded
[10:55] <imbrandon_> no problem i just wanted to make sure there wasent something _I_ needed to do manualy
[10:55] <imbrandon_> thanks dholbach
[11:03] <crimsun> good lord that's a nasty version for kdissert.
[11:04] <imbrandon_> lol yea i was thinking the same thing crimsun
[11:04] <imbrandon_> when i saw it
[11:05] <imbrandon_> hrm bbiab , changing over to the lappy
[11:06] <Gloubiboulga> call for MOTU helpers: I'll have some time this afternoon to review NEW packages and merges :)
[11:06] <crimsun> I'll try to join
[11:06] <Gloubiboulga> :)
[11:07] <crimsun> I have a presentation in three hours, and I've not slept yet, so it's going to be a /long/ day
[11:07] <dholbach> crimsun: Go! To! Bed!
[11:07] <crimsun> dholbach: knowing my track record, that would be a Very Bad Thing
[11:08] <crimsun> (the last time I tried that, I mistakenly turned off my UPS instead of the alarm clock, then turned off the alarm clock, and woke up late)
[11:08] <ajmitch> ouch
[11:08] <dholbach> arg
[11:08] <Gloubiboulga> I don't know how you guys do to not sleep...
[11:08] <ajmitch> not a good thing
[11:08] <Mithrandir> sleep is for the weak.
[11:08] <ajmitch> Gloubiboulga: simple, dholbach & crimsun aren't human
[11:08] <Gloubiboulga> hh
[11:08] <dholbach> i sleep :)
[11:14] <siretart> hi
[11:14] <siretart> dholbach: UVF for universe is later in edgy, right?
[11:15] <dholbach> siretart: yes, UniverseFreeze is with BetaFreeze
[11:15] <dholbach> cf EdgyReleaseSchedule
[11:15] <crimsun> Sept 28th iirc
[11:15] <siretart> dholbach: mdz asked me to ask you to add this to EdgyReleaseSchedule
[11:15] <crimsun> hmm, BetaFreeze or BetaRelease?
[11:16] <dholbach> siretart: i added it two times already
[11:16] <dholbach> it's on there
[11:18] <siretart> err, you mean here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule?
[11:18] <\sh> moins
[11:18] <dholbach> siretart: yes
[11:19] <siretart> hi \sh
[11:19] <dholbach> siretart: search for UniverseFreeze
[11:19] <siretart> argl.
[11:19] <siretart> I keep on searching the notes..
[11:19] <siretart> I'll add a note to the wiki, okay?
[11:19] <\sh> well, I won't be able to do any merges until next weekend...4 days before product launch...to stressfull
[11:19] <dholbach> siretart: which note?
[11:20] <crimsun> LOCK ecasound2.2
[11:21] <siretart> dholbach: in the 'notes' coloumn
[11:21] <crimsun> \sh: np, you've been kicking butt anyhow
[11:21] <dholbach> siretart: ok
[11:22] <dholbach> siretart: hope I didn't forget anything on the UniverseFreeze page itself
[11:23] <siretart> dholbach: I think it is okay like that
[11:24] <dholbach> ok super
[11:24] <crimsun> ecasound2.2 uploaded
[11:25] <crimsun> sorry, I'll be using this notation for merges that aren't listed for me
[12:00] <zakame> hi all
[12:02] <imbrandon> heya zakame
[12:02] <imbrandon> hrm, whats the diffrent colors for the rows in MoM mean ?
[12:02] <zakame> heya imbrandon
[12:03] <zakame> hmm, manual merge, I gather, say between native and non-native packaging
[12:03] <zakame> see the entries for apt-proxy and usbmount
[12:07] <imbrandon> ahh yea
[12:07] <zakame> hmm digikamimageplugins just needing a debsign for upload :)
[12:10] <kelmo> moin, moin siretart
[12:18] <zakame> and so is gr-wxgui
[12:35] <imbrandon> crimsun, ping
[12:53] <siretart> hey kelmo
[01:10] <Toadstool> hi everybody
[01:11] <Gloubiboulga> hi again Toadstool ;)
[01:11] <Toadstool> ;
[01:11] <Toadstool> :)
[01:45] <kelmo> siretart: http://farragut.flameeyes.is-a-geek.org/articles/2006/07/06/its-not-like-i-think-other-distribution-sucks-but
[01:52] <zul> hey
[01:54] <Gloubiboulga_> hi zul
[01:57] <Gloubiboulga_> I think I'll archive old packages on REVU (< june) with a comment asking to update for edgy
[01:57] <Gloubiboulga_> sound good to you MOTUs?
[01:57] <Gloubiboulga_> sounds*
[02:11] <siretart> kelmo: I have worked with Diego (aka fameeyes) the last days on the debian xine package
[02:12] <siretart> kelmo: he recently become member of xine developers, so he is also xine-upstream, and commits stuff, mainly related to ffmpeg, I think
[02:12] <siretart> kelmo: it is correct, that xine was rather neglected in debian, for a number of reasons. I'm working on it
[02:12] <kelmo> siretart: yep, i sort of gathered that from his recent blog's
[02:13] <kelmo> siretart: yes, it was for a long time in limbo, i am glad you have help revive it
[02:13] <kelmo> very very glad
[02:14] <kelmo> siretart: i was just curious to know who he was actually referring to ;-)
[02:14] <siretart> I'm not finished, but 1.1.2 is to be released 'soon', and I should have a working package for it in my development branch
[02:15] <siretart> kelmo: I'm not sure that he refers to explicitly to me here, but of course he refers to the poor maintenance of xine in the past
[02:16] <kelmo> siretart: yep, and he is/was not the only one ;-)
[02:18] <siretart> kelmo: more rants about xine in debian?
[02:18] <kelmo> siretart: nah, not in recent times
[02:19] <kelmo> siretart: thats a tribute to the current work to keep it in good shape by the maintainers
[02:19] <kelmo> siretart: so in short => keep up the good work ;-) i appreciate it
[02:20] <siretart> oh. you're welcome :)
[02:22] <kelmo> siretart: re: hostapd, i was absolutely stoked with faidon's response in regard to joining the maintenance team
[02:22] <kelmo> siretart: was not expecting that, somehow
[02:23] <siretart> kelmo: stoked? why that?
[02:23] <kelmo> siretart: (sorry for slang) stoked => extremely happy
[02:24] <ajmitch> kelmo: your australianness is showing :)
[02:25] <kelmo> ajmitch, proud of it ;-)
[02:26] <ajmitch> kelmo: where in .au, btw?
[02:26] <kelmo> brisbane
[02:26] <ajmitch> right
[02:26] <ajmitch> too warm for me
[02:26] <kelmo> soon to fly to melbourne ;-)
[02:26] <kelmo> that is gonna hurt
[02:27] <ajmitch> hehe
[02:27] <kelmo> i've not work sleeves all week, then enter the cold . . .
[02:27] <kelmo> s/work/worn/
[02:27] <ajmitch> flying back to dunedin tomorrow
[02:27] <ajmitch> you'll need warm clothes, melbourne has been unusually cold lately, I hear
[02:28] <kelmo> yeah, coldest in 50 years or so
[02:28] <zul> heh..."alot of people in this country poo poo australian table wines"
[02:28] <ajmitch> haha
[02:28] <ajmitch> good old 'chateau chunder'
[02:31] <siretart> kelmo: oh. right. I'm happy for the extra coordination as well
[02:31] <siretart> kelmo: I don't see why hostap and wpasupplicant shouldn't be maintained by the same ppl, or why they should be out of sync in debian (like, wpasupplicant compiling against old madwifi headers and hostap against newer ones et. al.)
[02:32] <kelmo> siretart: exactly, it make sense
[02:33] <kelmo> siretart: but i've not had all good experiences co-ordinating packages in debian, pkg-wpa has been excellent in this regard
[02:34] <Hobbsee> hi all
[02:34] <Mithrandir> hi Hobbsee
[02:34] <Hobbsee> hi Mithrandir!
[02:35] <siretart> to native speakers: there is the word 'advice'. does it have a plural? like, 'advices'?
[02:35] <Hobbsee> siretart: well, you can advise someone of something
[02:36] <Mithrandir> I think advice is uncountable.
[02:36] <kelmo> there's no plural, thats for sure
[02:37] <siretart> Hobbsee: right. in AOP, there is a language feature called 'advice'. Think of it like a method. My question is if there is a plural, if I have several Code Advice in one aspect..
[02:37] <siretart> so 'advices' doesn't exist, right?
[02:37] <Hobbsee> siretart: that's correct
[02:37] <Mithrandir> It'd be something like "several Code Advice statements".
[02:37] <kelmo> yep
[02:38] <siretart> ok. thank you
[02:38] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: is correct
[03:09] <Gloubiboulga_> Hobbsee, have you ever seen KDE apps installing documentation in /usr/share/doc/HTML (I guess not but I want to be sure)?
[03:10] <Gloubiboulga_> Hobbsee and KDE lovers :)
[03:10] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga_: [23:10]  <Riddell> Hobbsee: by default KDE will do that but in Debian/Ubuntu it should be /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/
[03:11] <Gloubiboulga_> ok, thanks
[03:16] <seaLne> does anyone have the time to look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2637 please? it is a newly packaged app now used by sleuthkit and autopsy
[03:17] <Gloubiboulga_> /me looks
[03:17] <seaLne> ta
[03:21] <zakame> hi all
[03:21] <Hobbsee> hey zakame
[03:22] <zul> hi zakame
[03:22] <zakame> hey Hobbsee thanks for doing some of my old pkgs :)
[03:23] <crimsun> imbrandon__: pong, but I'm in a sponsor meeting atm, what's up?
[03:23] <Hobbsee> zakame: so you didnt mind me stealing them?  i got e-verybigupload uploaded :)
[03:23] <imbrandon__> crimsun, its about some makefile voo-doo and i dont have it infront of me atm, it can wait till later if thats ok
[03:24] <crimsun> imbrandon__: please. I won't be available for another 5-6 hours.
[03:24] <zakame> Hobbsee: well I just have digikamimageplugins and gr-wxgui pending debsign, I haven't sen the rest yet
[03:24] <imbrandon__> ok
[03:26] <Hobbsee> zakame: so i can happily steal the rest?
[03:29] <zakame> Hobbsee: just ping me which so I don't inadvertently duplicate work :)
[03:29] <Hobbsee> zakame: usually i do stuff while you're asleep, so that's fairly safe :P
[03:29] <Hobbsee> but of course :)
[03:29] <zakame> hehe that's good anyhow, I'm fairly loaded atm
[03:32] <Gloubiboulga_> seaLne, commented on REVU
[03:47] <seaLne> Gloubiboulga_: thanks
[03:47] <Gloubiboulga_> seaLne, np
[03:50] <seaLne> grr new versions always come out just after :)
[03:50] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:50] <Gloubiboulga_> hehe
[03:50] <Gloubiboulga_> hello bddebian
[03:50] <seaLne> happened to me with dcfldd
[03:50] <bddebian> Hi Gloubiboulga_
[03:56] <zakame> wb bddebian
[03:56] <bddebian> Heya zakame
[03:57] <sivang> okay dudes and dudettes , do we have a todo list or just use http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html ?
[03:58] <sivang> or more importantly, how do we co-ordinate merge work ?
[03:59] <sivang> zakame: hey there, are you now working on X stuff ?
[03:59] <zakame> well we don't have new bug reporting, except for syncs
[04:00] <sivang> so how do we coordinate ?:)
[04:00] <Hobbsee> sivang: stuff that's got our names on it, just do it, if it's got someone elses, ask them first
[04:00] <sivang> Hobbsee: already knew that :)
[04:00] <Hobbsee> sivang: if you want to attack some, go for zakame's - i'm not doing them at the moment
[04:01] <zakame> sivang: I'm not working on X :( been busy with SoC and IRL
[04:01] <zakame> I'm still doing the deptree though
[04:01] <sivang> Hobbsee: Well, I've basically done all that I could main, and managed to annoy core-dev people including the almighty seb128 ... so I figured put some more work to universe :)
[04:01] <Hobbsee> sivang: hehe, i annoy many people in universe, so i'm finally going for MOTU.
[04:02] <Hobbsee> sivang: annoying main people is good though :P
[04:02] <sivang> so, I don't need to bug people before I steal their merge then?
[04:02] <Hobbsee> sivang: depends if htey're asleep or not :P
[04:03] <Hobbsee> sivang: feel free to go thru zakame's - i'm not doing them for the next while - but if you're going to keep doing them, we need to keep in contact over who's doing what
[04:03] <sivang> Hobbsee: I see, let's what he had under his belt for universe
[04:03] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:03] <Hobbsee> some majorly big files!
[04:03] <sivang> althogh asterisk looks yummy
[04:03] <Hobbsee> (oh no, more sirens)
[04:03] <Hobbsee> sivang: go for it
[04:04] <sivang> zul: do you mind if tried asterisk ? any insiders tips ? :)
[04:05] <Hobbsee> zul: idle for 42 mins?  probably just take it :P
[04:05] <sivang> Hobbsee: hmm, it seems the zakame's stuff are mostly KDE no?
[04:05] <zakame> lol
[04:05] <Hobbsee> sivang: could be, i took a few that werent
[04:08] <sivang> Hobbsee: thanks :)
[04:14] <sivang> Hobbsee: what's the meaning if a package gets .dfsg-... in it?
[04:14] <sivang> Hobbsee: in it's file name, that is.
[04:14] <Hobbsee> sivang: ah, means it's non free, IIRC
[04:15] <sivang> Hobbsee: hmm, meaning it breaks the debian free software guidelines ?
[04:15] <Hobbsee> sivang: that's the one
[04:16] <sivang> Hobbsee: so , that's like stuff that sits in the non-free debian repo? and the file name change is in ubuntu and debian, right?
[04:16] <Hobbsee> sivang: i think so, yeah
[04:32] <seaLne> does anyone know what is causing "I have no package to build" http://pastebin.ca/84083 starting line 455
[04:34] <bddebian> That path looks questionable
[04:34] <bddebian> /tmp/buildd/foo ?
[04:34] <bddebian> Oh, wait nm
[04:36] <zakame> Hobbsee: those with `dfsg' versions are pkgs with a modified source tarball to meet DFSG
[04:37] <Hobbsee> zakame: ahh...that's right...
[04:39] <sivang> zakame: ah, thanks
[04:39] <bddebian> seaLne: The only thing I could guess with a cursory look is that it's not building in the right dirs
[04:39] <sivang> zakame: what sort of modifications are usually done?
[04:40] <crimsun> removal of non-free components
[04:41] <crimsun> repackaging of orig.tar.gz to represent binary changes
[04:41] <crimsun> etc.
[04:41] <sivang> crimsun: you mean, repackagin it after the new binaries were produced from the dfsg compliant code?
[04:42] <crimsun> sivang: no, things like shipping a different default skin for beep-media-player, etc.
[04:43] <sivang> crimsun: ah, I see
[04:43] <sivang> crimsun: btw, you are approved for main right?
[04:43] <crimsun> yes
[04:43] <Gloubiboulga_> congrats crimsun :)
[05:18] <bddebian> Hi Yagisan
[05:18] <Yagisan> G'day bddebian
[05:20] <Hobbsee> heh
[05:20] <Hobbsee> they're always down like that, it's most annoying
[05:20] <Yagisan> yep, it's first day, and the damm thing dies at the login prompt
[05:31] <bddebian> OK hamlib sucks
[05:32] <zakame> heya Yagisan
[05:32] <zakame> whoa C*s on kdevelop3
[05:35] <Yagisan> what's up zakame ?
[05:35] <bddebian> Hi zakame
[05:36] <crimsun> bddebian: are you just pbuilding the debian source package?
[05:36] <bddebian> crimsun: For which?
[05:36] <crimsun> hamlib
[05:37] <bddebian> No, the Edgy one
[05:37] <crimsun> I don't see the merge
[05:37] <bddebian> It's a sync but it failed to build for the reason I just pasted :-)
[05:38] <bddebian> Man it's starting to feel like Debian
[05:38] <crimsun> oh, in -devel
[05:42] <bddebian> Jesus a 14Mb diff.gz
[05:43] <crimsun> it builds fine with python2.4
[05:47] <bddebian> Well that was my next path but it has a binary package python2.3-hamlib2
[05:48] <bddebian> crimsun: Know of a POSIX compliant version of this? rm -f $${$@%.rm}
[05:48] <crimsun> mith might
[05:48] <bddebian> Mithrandir: ?
[05:49] <cypher1> got dapper cd's today :D
[05:51] <Hobbsee> zakame: that kdevelop looks fun.  did you fix it yet?
[05:52] <zakame> Hobbsee: I'll be doing that :P
[05:52] <Gloubiboulga_> seaLne, what are those afflib-doc.{doc,install} files?
[05:52] <Hobbsee> zakame: right
[05:52] <seaLne> Gloubiboulga_:
[05:52] <zakame> and libnet-ph-perl too
[05:52] <seaLne> Gloubiboulga_: where?
[05:53] <zakame> gn8 all :D
[05:53] <seaLne> Gloubiboulga_: ah see them
[05:53] <seaLne> Gloubiboulga_: deleted
[05:53] <Gloubiboulga_> seaLne, 2 other comments
[05:53] <seaLne> Gloubiboulga_: did you see my previous question of what is causing "I have no package to buil" http://pastebin.ca/84083
[05:53] <Gloubiboulga_> there's no man pages, and you don't need to install LICENSE.txt (in the docs)
[05:54] <seaLne> Gloubiboulga_: ok
[05:54] <Gloubiboulga_> seaLne, yep I saw it, but I can't answer :/
[05:55] <jrib> Hi, for http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2623, I'm working on the latest review.  Should I really remove every commented line in the rules file or just the unused dh_* stuff?  Here is a link to the rules file: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/gaim-latex-0607061720/gaim-latex-0.4/debian/rules
[05:55] <Gloubiboulga_> seaLne, look at the buildlog on REVU, the same issue is present
[05:56] <seaLne> Gloubiboulga_: riddell just pointed out to me it looks like it is running dh_* twice
[05:56] <crimsun> jrib: dh_
[05:56] <jrib> crimsun: thanks
[05:56] <Gloubiboulga_> jrib, yes, the dh_ as wrote crimsun, I should have been more precise
[06:06] <Gloubiboulga_> seaLne, yes, you have an install-arch: and an install-indep: but you don't need this
[06:06] <seaLne> which should i have?
[06:06] <seaLne> arch?
[06:07] <Gloubiboulga_> binary-indep: build install
[06:07] <Gloubiboulga_> # We have nothing to do by default.
[06:07] <Gloubiboulga_> and remove the binary-{arch,indep} rules at the end of debian/rules
[06:08] <apachelogger> raphink: ping
[06:08] <raphink> pong apachelogger
[06:08] <apachelogger> raphink: I can't upload to revu :S
[06:08] <seaLne> Gloubiboulga_: what should binary: do then?
[06:08] <apachelogger> raphink: http://pastebin.ca/84122
[06:08] <seaLne> or is it not needed either?
[06:08] <bddebian> crimsun: Any suggestions with hamlib?  Make the binary package python2.4-hamlib2?
[06:09] <raphink> apachelogger: add yourself to the ubuntu-universe-contributors group on LP
[06:09] <apachelogger> raphink: already in there
[06:09] <apachelogger> for quite some time actually
[06:09] <Gloubiboulga_> seaLne, actually you shouldn't have a binary-common: rule, this is this one which is called twice
[06:09] <Gloubiboulga_> seaLne, see http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/vbaexpress-0602040735/vbaexpress-1.2/debian/rules
[06:12] <apachelogger> raphink: the upload just showed up :)
[06:12] <raphink> good :)
[06:13] <Laser_away> bddebian: ping?
[06:14] <bddebian> LaserJock: Yo
[06:14] <LaserJock> bddebian: good news about maxima
[06:14] <LaserJock> bddebian: what needs to be done, or did you already take care of it
[06:16] <bddebian> LaserJock: I'm working on gcl now
[06:16] <LaserJock> bddebian: great, thanks
[06:22] <seaLne> Gloubiboulga_: can i get rid of build-*?
[06:23] <LaserJock> bddebian: I seriously doubt you piss -devels off... much :-)
[06:23] <Gloubiboulga_> seaLne, I think so
[06:23] <Gloubiboulga_> seaLne, did you use dh_make?
[06:23] <seaLne> Gloubiboulga_: the make is done in install:
[06:24] <Gloubiboulga_> seaLne, dh_make is used to generate the debian/* templates :)
[06:24] <seaLne> Gloubiboulga_: err yeah i knew that errm :) yes
[06:25] <Gloubiboulga_> the debian/rules you have looks like you've selected a multiple package when you ran dh_make
[06:25] <seaLne> ah
[06:25] <Mez> grr ... anyne have any idea the easiest way to find out which device is an ntfs formatted disk
[06:26] <Mez> cause someone wants some help mounting it and he doesnt know how to identify it
[06:26] <Erlang> fdisk /dev/blarg
[06:28] <Mez> aha fdisk -l - knew I'd forgotten something
[06:28] <seaLne> Gloubiboulga_: any idea what makes lintian complain about missing -arch and -indep now? is it the header of the rules file?
[06:28] <bddebian> LaserJock: I seem to annoy the hell out of them
[06:29] <Mez> seaLne - do you actually have those rules?
[06:29] <seaLne> Mez: no
[06:29] <seaLne> just removed them
[06:29] <seaLne> E: afflib source: debian-rules-missing-required-target binary-arch
[06:29] <seaLne> E: afflib source: debian-rules-missing-required-target binary-indep
[06:29] <Mez> seaLne - those are required rules thats why
[06:30] <Mez> even if they do nothing
[06:30] <seaLne> ok, thanks
[06:30] <Gloubiboulga_> yes, you need this
[06:30] <Gloubiboulga_> but not install-{indep,arch} iirc
[06:31] <seaLne> got a bit carried away :)
[06:31] <Gloubiboulga_> sorry, I didn't check what I wrote before
[06:31] <Gloubiboulga_> seaLne, you should use cdbs :p
[06:31] <seaLne> :wq
[06:32] <Gloubiboulga_> and emacs :D
[06:32] <seaLne> bah :P
[06:42] <jrib> I think I fixed what I need to in http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2623 but when I check debian/copyright it doesn't have the file I have on my system.  This is my first package, so I don't know much about revu.  Is this normal?
[06:44] <seaLne> jrib: are you looking at the latest version on revu? the url changes for each upload
[06:44] <seaLne> jrib: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2669
[06:45] <jrib> seaLne: ah no I wasn't, I was just hitting refresh.  Thanks :)
[06:47] <fowlduck> is there a way to set gconf values so that all users inherit them and it overrides whatever is set?
[06:47] <seaLne> Gloubiboulga_: i think i have fixed things now, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2670
[06:48] <Gloubiboulga_> seaLne, renaminf 'ident' in 'afident' and not 'affident' is not a typo, right?
[06:49] <Gloubiboulga_> renaming*
[06:50] <seaLne> i removed an f as some of the other comands have a prefix of af, did i miss a mention of that?
[06:50] <Gloubiboulga_> no, no, I just wanted to be sure
[06:51] <seaLne> ah, thanks
[06:56] <seaLne> Gloubiboulga_: anything apart from manpages?
[06:57] <seaLne> which i suppose i need
[06:57] <Gloubiboulga_> seaLne, apart from the manpages (needed) it's a nice package :)
[07:20] <[GuS] > hi!
[07:21] <[GuS] > someone here?
[07:21] <Gloubiboulga_> depends :)
[07:21] <[GuS] > jeje
[07:21] <[GuS] > ok
[07:22] <[GuS] > i have one problem packaging tcl8.5
[07:22] <[GuS] > the deb package builds without any problems
[07:22] <[GuS] > but
[07:22] <[GuS] > some libraries modules are not  being package inside the deb
[07:22] <[GuS] > like for example msgcat
[07:23] <[GuS] > indeed... in the build process says "Installing msgcat as module... etc etc"
[07:23] <[GuS] > and no errors... but the lib isn't inside the deb package...
[07:24] <[GuS] > the onlye file that builds is /usr/lib/tcl8/8.5/msgcat-1.4.1.tm when has to be /usr/lib/tcl8.5/msgcat/
[07:24] <Gloubiboulga_> I guess it's not listed in your .install file
[07:25] <[GuS] > mm
[07:25] <[GuS] > i use the examples of tcl8.4 src
[07:25] <[GuS] > and with tcl8.4 works
[07:26] <[GuS] > in the other hand, if you do make install, that lib is copied inside correct dir...
[07:26] <[GuS] > weird...
[07:26] <Gloubiboulga_> not really
[07:27] <Gloubiboulga_> it's a problem with the package, it sometimes happens :)
[07:27] <[GuS] > what i supposed... maybe a makefile bug?
[07:27] <[GuS] > i will check..
[07:27] <seaLne> is /usr/lib the standard place to stick a library (.a file)?
[07:27] <[GuS] > the rest works fine.. just have that problem
[07:27] <[GuS] > yes
[07:28] <Gloubiboulga_> seaLne, yes
[07:28] <seaLne> thought so, thanks
[07:28] <[GuS] > well... i  wil test... when i have news i will like to upload this package =)
[07:31] <LaserJock> hi cbx33
[07:32] <cbx33> hey LaserJock
[07:32] <cbx33> howz it going
[07:32] <LaserJock> fine
[07:33] <cbx33> if I send you over the debian folder so far for gisomount can you advise me on it, when you get spare sec?
[07:33] <LaserJock> yeah
[07:34] <cbx33> thanks
[07:35] <cbx33> LaserJock, can I ask your advise
[07:35] <cbx33> on another matter
[07:35] <cbx33> I'm developing gisomount at the mo, now when I install it, the python script will go into /usr/bin
[07:35] <cbx33> everything else will go into /usr/share/gisomount
[07:36] <cbx33> including a python module
[07:36] <cbx33> does it make sense to symlink the locatiosn to my source directory ?
[07:36] <cbx33> so I can hardcode the paths into the min python code?
[07:36] <cbx33> or how should I handle it?
[07:36] <LaserJock> cbx33: I don't think you're supposed to put python modules in /usr/share/
[07:36] <cbx33> it's a python include - where should it go?
[07:37] <LaserJock> cbx33: /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/gisomount/ perhaps, you'll need to look at the new Python Policy
[07:38] <LaserJock> cbx33: but hard coding paths is a headache farther on, from what I've seen
[07:39] <LaserJock> but I'm not sure how other python apps handle that, I'll have to look
[07:40] <cbx33> hmm
[08:30] <zul> c is for cookie which is good enough for me
[08:39] <LaserJock> man I love awk
[08:47] <zul> LaserJock: use perl ;)
[08:48] <LaserJock> noooooooo
[08:48] <LaserJock> :-)
[08:49] <zul> its not that bad
[08:50] <LaserJock> I know, it's just the fact that I don't know Perl at all
[08:51] <LaserJock> I often find myself trying to pick a column out of a long list and awk is really easy to use for that
[08:51] <zul> oh...well that might explains the screamnig
[08:51] <LaserJock> heh
[08:51] <zul> meh...like me and groupwise
[08:51] <LaserJock> I watched my advisor once whip up a Perl script to parse some data files
[08:52] <LaserJock> it was rather interesting
[08:52] <zul> its useful for a couple of hundred megs of data
[08:52] <LaserJock> yeah
[08:53] <zul> we used it for patient records at a previous job...but anyways
[08:53] <LaserJock> in our lab we had some calculations that produces ~ 1GB data files
[08:53] <LaserJock> not something you want to parse by hand ;-)
[08:53] <zul> hell no
[08:54] <LaserJock> although I'm sure my advisor would try to figure out how to do it from within emacs :-)
[08:54] <zul> i so much hate emacs
[08:54] <LaserJock> heh, my advisor only know 3 tools, emacs, acroread, and firefox
[08:55] <zul> still emacs is evil
[08:55] <Gloubiboulga_> emacs does anything you need :)
[08:55] <LaserJock> and more than you need ;-)
[08:55] <Gloubiboulga_> true :)
[08:57] <LaserJock> I use all kinds of editors
[08:57] <LaserJock> emacs, vim, gedit, jedit
[08:57] <zul> vim and gedit mostly
[09:00] <LaserJock> I tend to use vim mostly
[09:00] <fowlduck-> LaserJock, what's the official way to change gconf values globally?  Is there one?
[09:01] <LaserJock> I haven't a clue to be honest
[09:01] <fowlduck-> ok, danke
[09:03] <cypher1> hi all
[09:03] <fowlduck-> howdy
[10:02] <jbailey> Is Universe going to stick to UVF this week?
[10:02] <LaserJock> no
[10:02] <LaserJock> we have Universe Freeze
[10:02] <LaserJock> in Sept.
[10:02] <jbailey> Ah, nice!
[10:02] <dholbach> jbailey: UniverseFreeze is with BetaFreeze
[10:02] <jbailey> Oh, nice.  I see it in the schedule now too.
[10:02] <jbailey> Perfect.
[10:11] <seaLne> is UniverseFreeze affected at all by feature freeze?
[10:12] <seaLne> "NEW packages brought in" on the wikipage would imply not?
[10:13] <dholbach> universefreeze is when we can only do bug fixes
[10:13] <dholbach> clean up :)
[10:20] <LaserJock> bddebian: ok, so what exactly is seb saying? we shouldn't have done the .desktops to start with, or now that we've done them we should send them upstream upstream
[10:20] <tseng> you should have done them upstream
[10:20] <tseng> to start with
[10:21] <LaserJock> I guess
[10:21] <bddebian> LaserJock: Hey, it's less work for me
[10:21] <tseng> you dont guess
[10:21] <tseng> his point is, upstream collects translations
[10:21] <tseng> you don't
[10:22] <bddebian> I highly doubt that most of these packages have a "translation team"
[10:22] <tseng> most of these projects are so silly
[10:22] <tseng> that it doesnt matter
[10:22] <tseng> time to go
[10:22] <bddebian> Later tseng
[10:25] <LaserJock> bddebian: that's my point, seb is used to working with Gnome
[10:25] <LaserJock> a fair amount of these projects are basically dead as far as this sort of thing
[10:26] <bddebian> Well I'm getting mighty freakin' tired of getting beat over the head
[10:26] <LaserJock> bddebian: just blame me
[10:26] <bddebian> I'm not blaming you for anything.  Hell there was a wiki page when I started with Ubuntu about getting .desktop files in
[10:28] <andi5> slomo_: are you around?
[10:33] <LaserJock> bddebian: better?
[10:34] <LaserJock> I'm still struggling with sending things upstream
[10:58] <LaserJock> bddebian: you're just lucky you've got a hole to crawl back into ;-)
[10:58] <bddebian> heh
[10:58] <LaserJock> bddebian: honestly though, don't hesitate to blame me for the science .desktops
[10:59] <LaserJock> I'm feeling like I kinda screwed that one up
[10:59] <bddebian> Nah
[10:59] <LaserJock> although, tbh, the reason I made the .desktop push in MOTU Science was because of seb :-)
[11:00] <bddebian> No one ever told me that stuff before
[11:00] <LaserJock> me neither
[11:03] <LaserJock> I'm just a moron, apparently
[11:04] <bddebian> Well you and me both baby :-)
[11:04] <tseng> hi bddebian
[11:04] <tseng> i am home
[11:05] <tseng> bddebian: we should plan on dinner this weekend
[11:21] <bddebian> tseng: why so you can convince me to quit? ;-P
[11:23] <tseng> bddebian: er, no
[11:23] <tseng> unless you have a CCNP and want to work 11-8
[11:23] <tseng> 11-7u
[11:24] <bddebian> I'd work 11-7 but I'm no CCNP
[11:24] <sivang> bddebian, tseng : are you working in the same place? :)
[11:24] <tseng> sivang: er, no
[11:24] <bddebian> tseng: And I meant quit MOTUship anyway :-)
[11:24] <tseng> oh
[11:24] <tseng> hah
[11:24] <tseng> fowlduck: why not?
[11:24] <tseng> good money
[11:24] <sivang> what's a CCNP ?
[11:24] <tseng> cisco certified network professional
[11:25] <tseng> level 2 cisco cert, pretty tough
[11:25] <fowlduck> tseng, i did some networking, I have a networking degree, discovered I hate it
[11:25] <tseng> sorry to hear that
[11:25] <tseng> i think high-end cisco is more stable than programming
[11:25] <fowlduck> yeah, 2 years of school to discover that
[11:25] <tseng> luckily i do both
[11:25] <tseng> and sysadmin
[11:25] <fowlduck> me too
[11:25] <tseng> i am diverse
[11:26] <fowlduck> going to school for web programming
[11:26] <fowlduck> did the networking bit
[11:26] <tseng> school is for suckers
[11:26] <fowlduck> and do sysadmin junk for hobby
[11:26] <sivang> tseng: wow , cool
[11:26] <fowlduck> heh
[11:26] <fowlduck> it's hard to get hired without education
[11:27] <LaserJock> I'm a condensed phase laser spectroscopist working in nanosensors, I guess I didn't get the diversification memo ;-)
[11:27] <fowlduck> and education has rounded me out
[11:27] <sivang> degreed people, that is
[11:27] <fowlduck> LaserJock, LOL
[11:27] <sivang> LaserJock: hehe
[11:27] <sivang> LaserJock: are you ?
[11:27] <LaserJock> yeah
[11:29] <sivang> LaserJock: nano sensors, I take it you're into nano technology ?
[11:29] <sivang> LaserJock: have you dealt with agents already?
[11:29] <LaserJock> it's taken 8 years of university training, but I've managed to become specialized enough to become virtually unemployable
[11:30] <sivang> hmm
[11:30] <fowlduck> sivang, I don't know what background you have or where you live, but here it's very hard to get looked at without some sort of education
[11:30] <sivang> fowlduck: where are you at?
[11:31] <fowlduck> sivang, Madison, WI
[11:31] <sivang> fowlduck: ah, US right ?
[11:31] <fowlduck> sivang, ya
[11:31] <LaserJock> sivang: I like nanotechnology, but from a physics/chemistry perspective
[11:31] <LaserJock> most nanotechnology isn't really nano ;-)
[11:31] <fowlduck> LaserJock, I like it from a "WHAT THE HECK IS THAT?!?" perspective
[11:32] <sivang> LaserJock: ah, so you're into actually thinking up what material to use to build a nano agent per task
[11:32] <LaserJock> sivang: I'm working on a molecular motor that is 1 nm in size
[11:32] <sivang> LaserJock: although as the physical body implementor, you should hage some knowledge about the algorithm
[11:33] <sivang> LaserJock: does newtonian mechanics apply to calculate force, throughput and utilization as they do in regular size world?
[11:34] <LaserJock> I think roughly, things get a little weird (read: we don't really know a lot) at such a small scale
[11:34] <sivang> ah, I see
[11:34] <LaserJock> we try to think in terms of torque and efficency, but they are really hard to determine
[11:35] <LaserJock> we are going to try to determine torque by attaching the motor to circular DNA strands and "winding" the DNA up like a rubber band
[11:35] <sivang> wow, cool
[11:35] <fowlduck> sounds easy
[11:35] <bddebian> heh
[11:36] <fowlduck> ;)
[11:36] <LaserJock> but my research involves trying to determine wheither the motors actually rotate and if they do wheither they rotate unidirectionally
[11:36] <LaserJock> fowlduck: of course ;-)
[11:37] <LaserJock> but doing that on a 1 nm object that is rotating at potentially MHz-GHz frequencies isn't trivial :-)
[11:37] <fowlduck> wouldn't it have to be attached to something stationary on the other side of the motor in order to twist the DNA from one end?
[11:37] <LaserJock> fowlduck: we attache each end to an end of DNA
[11:37] <LaserJock> attach
[11:37] <fowlduck> ahh, i see
[11:37] <LaserJock> so you take a piece of circular DNA
[11:37] <LaserJock> cut it
[11:38] <LaserJock> then attach each end of the motor to the ends
[11:38] <LaserJock> reforming the circle
[11:38] <LaserJock> but now with a rotating piece in the middle :-)
[11:38] <sivang> god, this sounds like sci fi
[11:39] <LaserJock> of course
[11:39] <LaserJock> sci fi is just science waiting to happen :-)
[11:39] <LaserJock> good sci fi anyway
[11:39] <fowlduck> like scientology?!!?!? ;D
[11:39] <sivang> LaserJock: btw, we have a good lab for nano tech in the uni where I attended pre-uni course, well known, check it out
[11:39] <sivang> LaserJock: http://rbni.technion.ac.il/employment.html
[11:39] <sivang> LaserJock: I think they've come up with some of the more moving changes in the discipline that last couple of yuears,
[11:40] <sivang> LaserJock: I can't acutally recall what they've done, but there was some ceremony for that :)
[11:40] <LaserJock> looks cool
[11:40] <LaserJock> I haven't even told you guys about the "other" research that we do in my lab ;-)
[11:40] <bddebian> tseng: Oh crap, I'm heading to Illinois on Thurs, so I can't buy you dinner :-(
[11:41] <sivang> LaserJock: which is ? :)
[11:41] <tseng> bddebian: ok.
[11:41] <tseng> bddebian: ill buy if yo ustay
[11:41] <LaserJock> sivang: we are taking cigar shaped molecules and trapping them in 3D space. Then turn them into gyroscopes that we can shoot at other molecules :-)
[11:42] <sivang> LaserJock: wow! do you have any computer simulation or laser scope firms of that stuff when you do it ?
[11:42] <sivang> films, even
[11:43] <sivang> LaserJock: what's the 3D space made of btw?
[11:43] <LaserJock> electromagnetic radiation, of course ;-)
[11:44] <raphink> hey sivang :)
[11:44] <LaserJock> basically, if you time a radio frequency field right in 3D you can create a "trap" that will catch ~ 1000 molecules for up to ~ 10 s at a time
[11:44] <LaserJock> we are still at the "getting it to work" stage
[11:45] <LaserJock> but we have a fair amount of compuational simulations
[11:45] <LaserJock> basically we use a circularly polarized laser to put selective angular momentum into the molecules
[11:46] <LaserJock> so the start spinning in one direction, and as we put more and as we hit them more and more with the laser, the begin to all line up in the same direction, spinning in the same sense
[11:47] <LaserJock> wow, that sentance has a few holes in it
[11:47] <sivang> whawo
[11:47] <LaserJock> np
[11:47] <sivang> raphink: hey Raphael! how are you?
[11:47] <raphink> shalom sivang, ani shlom tov :)
[11:47] <bddebian> tseng: :-)
[11:47] <LaserJock> I have to practice these talks for my family, usually I get a whiteboard though
[11:47] <bddebian> I have GOT to get home.  Later folks
[11:47] <LaserJock> cya bddebian
[11:48] <raphink> laters bddebian
[11:48] <raphink> v ma shlomkha sivang ?
[11:48] <sivang> LaserJock: is there any or could there be any corolation or to use nanotechnology as a tool to discover stuff in string theory and sub atomic worlds?
[11:48] <sivang> raphink: hakol beseder! I see Sahar taught you hebrew :)
[11:48] <raphink> sivang: no he didn't ;) I knew that already ;)
[11:48] <sivang> raphink: where form?
[11:49] <raphink> I've been studying hebrew for years, bit by bit
[11:49] <raphink> a bit of modern hebrew by myself
[11:49] <raphink> and biblical hebrew, too
[11:49] <raphink> in a group
[11:50] <raphink> :)
[11:50] <LaserJock> sivang: it's possible I suppose, my general feeling is that we don't have nearly as much understanding at that level as we (scientific community) would need
[11:50] <LaserJock> raphink: I'll be lucky if I get German or French down
[11:50] <raphink> hehe
[11:53] <sivang> raphink: what motivated you to learn it?
[11:55] <raphink> sivang: jabber