/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/07/11/#edubuntu.txt

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jsgotangcogood morning01:49
LaserJockhi jsgotangco 01:51
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LaserJockhi sbalneav 04:12
sbalneavHey there LaserJock!!04:13
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jsgotangcohey04:23
sbalneavhey jsgotangco 04:24
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ryan__how can i configure samba in ubuntu07:01
jsgotangcoryan__: there's a good howto in the help page07:03
jsgotangcounder the server guide07:03
jsgotangcoyou can also check out https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SettingUpSamba07:05
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Bot_BuilderWould edubuntu be a good choice for a sort of after school education project sort of thing for children who moved to the United states a year ago?08:05
BurgundaviaBot_Builder: yep08:05
Bot_BuilderThey've got computers, but they don't use them08:06
Burgundaviacan't speak very good english?08:06
Burgundaviaedubuntu can do many languages08:06
Bot_Builderthat might be good08:06
Bot_Builderis it easy to switch between the languages? It'd be ideal if they could learn english as they do it08:06
Burgundaviawhat sort of computers do you have?08:06
jsgotangcoits easy to swtich between languages08:07
Burgundaviafairly easy08:07
jsgotangcoespecially if its a largely spoken one08:07
Bot_BuilderI think they've got P3s (I'm not actually part of this organization, just helping out)08:07
jsgotangcochances are translations are complete for most if not all applications08:07
Bot_BuilderI think they mostly speak somali08:08
Burgundaviahmm, that is more of a challenge08:08
Burgundaviahowever, you can get the community involved in the translation08:08
jsgotangcohmmm08:08
Bot_BuilderI don't know the specs of the computers08:08
Burgundaviasomali uses latin script08:08
Burgundaviaget some of the older kids and the parents involved and you can translate most of edubuntu in not too long08:09
Bot_BuilderYes, perhaps they could help out, but the main reason I'm involved is they need someone to install windows and such on their computers08:09
Burgundaviaalso a great way to learn english and computers08:09
Bot_BuilderI'm thinking I'll install windows 2000 (they seem to think it'll work, so the computers can't be so bad)08:10
Bot_Builderon some of them08:10
Bot_Builderand edubuntu on others08:10
Bot_Builderso they can learn the popular platform and benefit from edubuntu's software08:11
Burgundaviayou could do edubuntu on all, with rdesktop to a windows 200 machine08:11
Bot_Builderyeah, but then there'd be only one 2000 machine :P08:11
Burgundaviapeople don't actually need windows08:12
Bot_BuilderTrue08:12
Bot_Builderbut its so popular that if these kids learn it, it'll help with getting jobs, etc08:13
Burgundaviathe Big Lie in North America is that they do08:13
BurgundaviaI would call that part of the big lie08:13
Burgundaviateach them computers and they will figure out windows08:13
Bot_BuilderProbably08:13
Bot_BuilderEspecially if they have to mess with bash to do any configuration :P08:14
Bot_Builderwill really smarten em up08:15
jsgotangcohave you ever installed and edubuntu desktop08:15
Bot_Buildernope08:16
Bot_Builderi've got ubuntu though08:16
jsgotangcook how many times do you go to bash to do something simple08:16
jsgotangcosay create a worksheet?08:16
Bot_Buildernah08:16
jsgotangcoexactly08:16
Bot_Buildermore like to get my dual screens working, configure fstab for new partitions08:17
Burgundaviathey are unlikely to be doing those things08:17
Bot_Builderok, so the dual screen thing is a bad example08:17
Bot_Builderhow about installing a program that's not a package08:17
Bot_Builderyou could try using nautilus, but uh-oh, no administrative rights08:18
Burgundaviaunlikely to be doing that08:18
Burgundaviamost people never need more than what they have, and for the rest, there is gai08:18
=== jsgotangco thinks of some software that is not packaged
Bot_Builderso if you've got the knowhow pop open bash and sudo cp08:18
Burgundaviayou are not going to get everybody, but for now, new immigrants just need a computer that works08:18
Bot_Builderyeah i know :P08:18
Burgundaviathey will accept limitations (which I don;t accept exist) just to have access08:19
Bot_Builderok, yeah it'll probably be no problem08:19
=== Burgundavia should note he sells Linux on a daily basis and thus deals with all these questions, again and again
jsgotangcooh yeah08:19
Bot_Builderhaha08:19
=== jsgotangco shuts up and lets the salesman do the talking
Bot_BuilderThin client stuff sounds interesting08:20
Bot_Buildertoo bad it seems like they've got a bunch of medium clients :P no fatty server, and no decent desktops08:20
Burgundaviayep08:20
Burgundaviathen run xubuntu on them08:20
Bot_Builderwe'll see though, if they can run 2000, they can probably run buntu08:20
Burgundaviashould be able to08:21
Bot_Builderwhat's the diff between xubuntu and edubuntu (other than xfce)08:21
Burgundaviaxubuntu is XFCE, edu is GNOME08:21
Bot_Builderright, but you lose all those differences between ubuntu and edubuntu08:21
Burgundavianot really08:21
Bot_Builderwell, maybe there's not that many08:21
Burgundaviaedubuntu is merely ubuntu+educational apps+ltsp08:22
jsgotangcoxfce and gnome both use gtk208:22
Bot_Builderxfce says its lightweight though08:22
Burgundaviait is08:22
Burgundaviathere is a spec for integrating xubuntu+edu for the next release08:23
Burgundaviathere are two issues here, of course: computers in a lab and computers that are going home08:24
Burgundaviathe former are easy, as you (or another volunteer) run them08:24
Burgundaviathe later are more difficult08:24
Burgundaviathe advantage of having them all the same is that you can do training on the lab and then send them home with the same type of computer08:24
Bot_Builderah, its lab08:24
Burgundaviaanother great way to teach people computer skills to have them help recycle computers and then they get to take one home08:25
Bot_Builderyeah08:25
Bot_BuilderHmm, maybe I can make a xubuntu install with all the edu apps08:26
Burgundaviain any case, I urge you to get involved in helping craft the next version of Edubuntu08:28
Burgundaviayou are the people that use it and can best tell us what you need and want08:29
Bot_BuilderHmm maybe, I'm working on a game engine practically full time.  Its not really practical to work on a bunch of projects at once08:30
Burgundaviatrue08:30
Bot_BuilderAnd anyway, this is just a volunteer project08:30
Burgundaviawhich game engine?08:30
Bot_Buildermy own :P08:30
Bot_BuilderBeen working about 12 hours a day for 10 days08:31
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Bot_BuilderI'll keep it in mind though, if I keep in contact with this organization08:33
jsgotangcoogra: hello08:33
Bot_Builderwebsite needs some love too - http://haeconline.org/08:35
Bot_Builderhmm, yeah, the website boasts of things that aren't happening - at least the computer side08:38
BurgundaviaBot_Builder: http://www.oly-wa.us/freegeek/08:39
Amaranthwillowng has an installer08:42
Amaranththat i have never used but assume works :P08:43
Bot_BuilderBurgundavia: ooh, sweet08:43
BurgundaviaAmaranth: if you give me code I can test it08:43
Amaranthbzr branch http://dev.realistanew.com/willowng08:43
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Bot_BuilderOooh, I've got a computer i can try out my custom cd on08:47
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Bot_Builderactually, a custom cd could be pretty damn hard08:54
Bot_BuilderWe'll see how the computers run edubuntu before doing anything drastic08:55
Burgundavianot necessarily08:56
spaceyAmaranth: willowng is your product?08:57
Amaranthspacey: yeah08:57
spaceyah, ok :)08:57
spaceywhy installer?08:57
spaceywhats wrong with dpkg -i :P08:57
spaceyslash a normal package08:57
Amaranthspacey: uh08:58
Amaranthspacey: as upstream i need a build system/installer in order for you to make a package08:58
Bot_BuilderBurgundavia - well, adding the educational packages to xubuntu might take a bit of fiddling08:58
BurgundaviaBot_Builder: you can use kickstart, if you want to avoid it08:58
Amaranthi'm talking about things like 'make' and './setup.py install'08:58
spaceyAmaranth: ah ok;)08:59
Amaranthspacey: it's a good thing to have :)08:59
spaceyok =)08:59
Amaranthit's not like an autopackage installer or loki or anything09:00
spaceyhehe, thats what i think about when you say installer (loki)09:00
spaceysome crazy wizard09:00
spacey:D09:00
spaceywe had lots of willow problems on our proxy server since it was upgrade from hoary -> breezy09:01
spaceyso mad we decided to upgrade it to dapper and then all problems were gone09:01
spaceyso now were happy again with willow09:01
spaceybut such things are really nasty09:01
spaceyi hope your version will not inherit such features =)09:02
Amaranthhehe, it's a rewrite09:02
Amaranthwithout a web interface i've got about 500 lines of code and afaik it's fully working09:02
spaceythats nice =)09:03
spaceyhow much lines does willow have?09:03
Amaranthfar too many09:03
Amaranthalthough it does seem to use headers and such to fine-tune the filtering09:04
Amaranthbut it basically implements a full HTTP client09:05
Amaranthi just pass things back and forth from server to browser09:05
Amaranthand hold on to the data to run the filter on to do checks09:06
spaceyah09:06
Amaranthsloccount in the unpacked willow dir says 3170 lines of code09:06
Amaranthin willowng it says 56409:07
spacey:)09:07
AmaranthTotal Estimated Cost to Develop                           = $ 14,80809:07
spaceynot implementing full http does save some code ofcourse:)09:07
spaceymuch easier to maintain09:07
Amaranthyeah09:07
BurgundaviaAmaranth: to be fair, do you include that reverend library?09:07
AmaranthBurgundavia: yeah09:07
spaceyreverend lib?09:07
AmaranthBurgundavia: i took the actual useful part of that library, made it use sqlite, and included it with willowng09:08
Burgundaviaah, ok09:08
Amaranthreverend is a python bayesian filter09:08
Amaranthbayesian classifier, rather09:08
Amaranthi'm $10,000 short so far :P09:09
Amaranthhehe09:09
spaceyah :)09:11
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Bot_BuilderI always thought that cost to develop thing was kind of funny09:23
AmaranthBot_Builder: it's surprisingly accurate09:34
AmaranthBot_Builder: but it assumes good code that has had quite a bit of bug fix time09:35
Amaranthsame for the time to develop09:35
Amaranthfor things like gtk+ it's pretty close to accurate09:35
Amaranthfor a project started last month it's going to be wrong09:35
Bot_Builderah, nowonder my money is so high10:01
Bot_Builderit doesn't even compile yet :P10:01
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Bot_Builderwell, thanks for the info10:22
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cbx33ping ogra 11:13
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cbx33ogra: /bin/pwd: couldn't find directory entry in `../../../..' with matching i-nodeUse of uninitialized value in string at /usr/share/lintian/checks/cruft line 67.Can't stat : No such file or directory01:21
cbx33known error when debuilding a package01:22
ogranope01:22
cbx33hmmm01:22
cbx33any clues?01:23
cbx33pacakge looks ok01:23
ogra(mind you, i never use debuild)01:23
jsgotangcow00t xorg flood by rodarvus01:23
cbx33what do you use?01:23
ogra:))01:23
ogradpkg-buildpackage01:23
cbx33hmm01:23
cbx33same rough syntax?01:24
ograbut that rathher looks like a lintian error01:24
jsgotangcoahhh ogra likes it rough and old fashioned01:24
ogra:)01:24
cbx33can someone try lintian for me?01:24
ograi also prefer debhelper above cdbs :)01:24
jsgotangcohow german can you get01:24
jsgotangcoheh01:24
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ogratry it yourself01:24
cbx33i did01:25
cbx33I get no error01:25
cbx33well i lie I get an error, just not that error01:25
ograjsgotangco, hmm, looking at other germans, thats not really german :)01:25
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cbx33:D01:25
jsgotangcoisn't debhelper enough? cddb just automates/eases some stuff that you can actually do straight from debhelper01:25
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jsgotangcos/cddb/cdbs01:26
ogracdbs makes it easier if you do mass production01:28
rodarvusjsgotangco: theres probably a little more for today ;)01:28
jsgotangcoheh more flood01:28
jsgotangcoright01:28
ograbut its bad if you want fine grained packaging ..., then you have to disable/exclude half the world01:29
jsgotangconever really used cdbs that much...its likely useful for syncs though01:30
ogradepends01:31
ograi'm just merging g-p-m ... its a real pain, even both are cdbs01:31
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jsgotangcoahh kernel update01:39
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flintogra, is the meeting over?  I cannot get these times right.02:06
jsgotangcoerr its only tuesday?02:06
flintjsgotangco, thanks, I have been working like a dog in DC, worked the weekend and am losing track of days...02:07
jsgotangcoyou can always use www.timeanddate.com02:08
jsgotangcoto check02:08
flintah, that's it!02:08
jsgotangcoor install tzwatch02:08
flintjsgotangco, I had worldclock on my old machine, just got an IBM T-60, which I like a lot.02:08
jsgotangcoahhh02:09
ograhttps://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda helps too ;)02:09
flintogra, yes it says the next meeting in 5 July... :^)02:09
ogra??02:09
flintogra, seriously...https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda02:10
ograNext Meeting is on: Jul 12 at 12:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting02:10
ograi updated it an hour ago or so ...02:10
flintogra, absolutely, I am just a day ahead.  Been playing with xen on top of 606, it rocks.02:10
ogranice02:11
flintogra, Just cleard cache, you is right!!!!02:11
jsgotangcoman my dsl sucks02:11
flintogra, think as the Drake as a clown, the Drake juggles 5 Baby clowns....02:11
flintogra, it is a thing to behold!02:11
ogranot unless the patches are sane enough to include them 02:13
ograits a similar situation as we have with freeNX02:13
flintogra, you need much RAM.  Been pretty stable (knock wood :^)02:14
ograstill ... as long as the patches are not sane we wont include it02:14
flintogra, I suspect that xen is like sking or skydiving, it is not for everyone... 02:15
ogranope ... it is thought for the upstream kernel, but linus waits for sanitizing as well02:16
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cberlois there a way to get pam_mount to work with ldm on edubuntu's ltsp?03:39
cberloorgra:  how's local device access coming along?  :)03:40
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RobinShepheardHello All03:56
bddebianHello RobinShepheard03:57
RobinShepheardhiya bddebian, How are you??03:57
bddebianOK thanks, you?03:57
RobinShepheardNot soo bad, still waiting fro internet at my new flat :(03:57
RobinShepheard*for03:57
RobinShepheardthanks for asking03:58
=== Yagisan sticks head in and waves
=== RobinShepheard waves back
=== Yagisan is buried in uni course work
bddebianHeya Yagisan04:04
RobinShepheardDaft question is there an app specifically designed to mirror the repositories locally or is it just a question on using rsync or an ftp mirror package??04:06
RobinShepheards/on/of/04:06
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Yagisanyou want to mirror all the repos ? or just the .debs you install ?04:07
RobinShepheardYagisan: All the repos, but it looks like I have just found my answer, changed the word order of my search and have just found apt-proxy04:08
RobinShepheardI don't know why I didn't think to search for apt and proxy in the first place04:09
RobinShepheardI am aiming to move the remaining 30 desktops over to edubuntu, so I am working on building a server cluster, to save bandwidth I want to mirror the repos here04:10
Yagisanah04:10
YagisanI use apt-cacher myself04:10
YagisanI let one box suck down what's needed04:10
RobinShepheardok I will check that out, that is basically what I want to do04:11
Yagisanand all the rest just kit the cache (minus the different kernels)04:11
Yagisanapt-proxy does basically same thing04:11
Yagisanbut was to nice on my 233Mhz proxy box04:11
Yagisans/was/wasn't04:11
RobinShepheardahh well this will be a 1.5Ghz celeron04:11
RobinShepheardit is an spare desktop I have lying around in the office04:12
RobinShepheardYagisan: how did the sales pitch to the embassy go??04:12
jsgotangcogoodnight all04:13
RobinShepheardgoodnight jsgotangco04:13
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YagisanRobinShepheard: didn't find the right person, so I'll need to try again later04:27
RobinShepheardahh bad luck, much of a delay do you reckon??04:28
Yagisanhmm, it's not uncommon to wait 6 months for an answer04:31
RobinShepheardso nice and prompt replies then04:33
Yagisanlike this o_O ?04:55
RobinShepheard???? o_O ?05:02
YagisanRobinShepheard: imagine an eye bugging out05:02
YagisanI was commenting on my late reply05:03
=== Yagisan was doing daddy duties
RobinShepheardahh sorry, not with it today. I would say daddy duties count as a perfectly good reason for delay in replying :)05:04
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sbalneavMorning all05:33
bddebianHello sbalneav05:34
sbalneavhello bddebian 05:34
ograhey scott !05:34
highvoltagemorning sbalneav 05:41
cbx33ping ogra 05:44
sbalneavhighvoltage: Hey there!05:47
highvoltage:)05:47
sbalneavhi ogra!!05:47
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cbx33ping ogra 07:37
ogracbx33, sorry, no time for chatting today07:37
cbx33np07:37
cbx33sorry dude07:37
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EmxBAhi everyone!07:59
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LaserJockhi EmxBA 08:19
EmxBAhi! finnaly! after 20 minutes someone said something! :)08:20
sbalneavWasn't aware it was a timed test :)08:20
EmxBAhehe08:20
LaserJockI just couldn't leave you hanging like that ;-)08:21
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Yagisanhmm08:34
Yagisanedubuntu suitable for uni ?08:34
=== Yagisan needs to introduce himself, I I mentioned I harrass^W help people here
Yagisans/I I/and I08:35
LaserJockYagisan: was that a question?08:41
YagisanLaserJock: yes, both to myself a,d the channel08:42
Yagisans/a,d/and08:42
mckseanYagisan, are you asking if edubuntu is suitable for use in a university?08:42
Yagisanyep08:43
LaserJockit can be08:43
YagisanI only tinker with the bits and peices under the hood08:43
LaserJockobviously the default apps and look aren't suitable08:43
LaserJockbut those would probably be adjusted anyway08:43
YagisanI haven't paid much attention to what's on top08:43
mckseanAre you wanting the benefits of the linux terminal server?08:43
LaserJockthe LTSP is what's really cool for the university setting08:43
Yagisanmcksean: no, I patched edubuntu's ltsp - the benfits of that are cool08:44
YagisanI was think more like, do we have useful educational applications for tertiary education ?08:45
mckseanHmmm, I haven't spent a lot of time yet at the app level -- I think for me the primary benefit in highered/university setting would be the power of LTSP for managing desktop clients...08:46
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mckseanalthough edubuntu includes some great apps for creativity that don't appear to be included by default in my dapper install (of course, I can just add the ones that I want)08:47
LaserJockYagisan: Edubuntu itself doesn't really have much for university level apps other than what you would find on Ubuntu (firefox, openoffice, etc.)08:48
LaserJockbut I'm planning on creating some meta-packages for Universe to address that08:49
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Yagisansounds cool08:51
LaserJockI got my department sysadmin all excited about Edubuntu08:52
LaserJockbut the administration is less than eager08:53
BurgworkLaserJock, universities are very hard to sell to. It is why we (Userful) don't have any customers in that market08:54
LaserJockBurgwork: it's a little easier for me since it is a department thing, but they sure do hate change08:55
LaserJocknobody will outright say no08:55
LaserJockbut they are extremely skeptical08:55
LaserJockand it's not like the current setup works08:55
LaserJockthey are skeptical that anything *can* work08:56
cbx33I get that at the schol08:57
Burgworkthere is also a giant faceless IT dept full of people who like to say no08:58
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LaserJockBurgwork: bah, we just work around them at my uni08:59
Yagisanjust 2 days at Uni and I'm already challenging them. I will use my superior Ubuntu system thank you very much, and those code examples better be 64bit clean08:59
Yagisan>:)08:59
LaserJockawesome ;-)08:59
YagisanWIndows ? No I didn't come here to learn use something obsolete ...09:00
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cbx33hhah09:14
cbx33you tell em Yagisan 09:14
LaserJocksadly, the CS dept. here is scalling down the Linux labs and adding to the Windows labs09:15
cbx33NOOOO09:15
LaserJockinterestingly, I think Physics is the last bastion of *nux around here09:16
LaserJockthey run BSD in there lab09:16
LaserJockand I think many of the profs/students run *nix too09:17
Yagisanhmm09:17
Yagisan-> These presentations have been prepared using the software package Apreso.09:17
LaserJockI'm about the only one in Chem that uses Linux for a desktop09:18
Yagisan-> Apreso presentations can be viewed only in Microsoft Internet Explorer.09:18
YagisanWTF09:18
LaserJockOS X is taking over09:18
LaserJockYagisan: ewwww09:18
YagisanI feel like i stepped in dog shit now09:19
BurgworkYagisan, do what desrt did and write a letter asking if they are providing copies of windows and where he should go to get reimbursed for the cost09:22
LaserJocknice09:23
LaserJockI'm getting to the place were I'd need to do that09:23
YagisanBurgwork: putting Windows on my system is like catching a sexually transmitted disease - not something I want to do =-O09:24
Burgworkyes, but I think he got his point across09:24
LaserJockI have *no* Windows installation discs, only stupid recover discs that only work on the original computer, but I've changed my boxen enough that they don't work anymore09:24
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YagisanI have Windows on CD. Windows 3.1, the Cd has bit rot though09:25
Yagisanbut IE 6 doesn't work on it09:25
=== Yagisan has extracted the audio now
LaserJockin many ways I think MS is shooting themselves in the foot by not shipping install CDs anymore09:26
Yagisanbuy whitebox next time09:26
LaserJockI never directly pay for MS products09:27
Yagisanwe would get full cd's for those09:27
LaserJockI only get MS stuff when whatever I'm buying comes with it09:27
Yagisan(but the ones from the back of a white van were a few hundred dollars cheaper)09:27
LaserJockheh09:28
Yagisannot surprising the white van guy sold more then we did09:28
cbx33heheh09:28
Yagisanbut he didn't sell pcs :)09:29
Yagisanactually, could you imagine a counterfeit pc09:29
Yagisanpss wanna by a cheap pc - only $509:30
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lucasvowhich version of libc6 is in edgy atm?10:18
crimsun2.4-1ubuntu610:20
lucasvostrange10:20
lucasvoI did an upgrade to edgy but it says: libc6 is already the newest version.10:20
lucasvoah, wrong sources.list10:21
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cbx33pygi, it's finished10:31
cbx33well not finished10:31
cbx33but I'm in the process of uploading gisomount to REVU10:31
pygicbx33, what?10:31
=== pygi is very sorry if he doesn't understand a thing, because he just got back from a trip and is very tired :P
cbx33ah10:31
cbx33np10:31
cbx33I'm off out now anyway10:31
cbx33bye all10:31
pygibut right, gisomount... :)10:31
cbx33LaserJock, if you see a REVU admin...and you have a sec10:32
pygiBye bye10:32
cbx33:D10:32
cbx33thanks10:32
LaserJockcbx33: will do10:32
cbx33I'll bb in a few hours10:32
lucasvo22:32 < cbx33> I'll bb in a few hours10:47
lucasvoaka sleeping :)10:47
LaserJockyeah10:47
Yagisanoh "sleeping", is that what it's called10:48
YagisanI prefer short coma myself10:48
lucasvothat's not healthy, is it?10:49
Yagisanmust be, it's a side effect of children10:50
bddebianHeh10:50
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