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linuxmonkeywassup guys01:22
LaserJockhard at work, or asleep I'm guessing01:27
linuxmonkeylol.. 01:28
=== linuxmonkey is editing the ubuntu portion now that he's done the kubuntu wiki on reposirories
=== linuxmonkey needs to learn docbock and other stuff too
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LaserJockI'm trying to make some scripts to make my life easier01:37
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linuxmonkeylol @ LaserJock01:40
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LaserJocklinuxmonkey: http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/motuscience/all.html01:53
LaserJock^^ makes my life easer01:53
linuxmonkeyi was supposed to learn packaging, but no one was willing to help me and i got lost..lol01:54
LaserJockand ask -motu01:55
LaserJockI'm up to 452 packages, \o/01:56
LaserJockI'm sure glad Debian is around ;-)01:56
linuxmonkeyyeah im gonna do that. and also need to know how to help with docs too.. all ive been doing is wiki's01:56
LaserJockI'd just check out the svn repo and poke around01:57
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Burgundaviaany suggestions for admins for the wiki team?08:22
PlugWhat do they have to dO?08:25
BurgundaviaPlug: be active on the wiki, be a known quantity in the community, be an Ubuntu member, and the final and most important qualification, I have to know and trust you08:26
=== bimberi wonders if that's anyone ;P
jsgotangcoi rarely touch the wiki lately08:29
jsgotangcoexcept for some quick edits and cleanups08:29
Burgundavianor do I08:30
Burgundaviatoo little time08:30
bimberiBurgundavia: i'd be willing08:32
Burgundaviasure, what is your wikiname?08:33
Burgundaviayour lp name?08:35
bimberii'm already on the wiki team08:35
Burgundaviathere is not much todo08:36
Burgundaviait is more insurance for the "bus event" ie: I get hit by a bus or are otherwise not available08:36
Burgundaviait provides a clear person to devolve power too08:37
bimberiok, the team's wikipage says "The adminstrators will add you if you have already done a bit of editing on the wiki" - i guess that's doing a search on a candidate's wikiname and having a browse?08:38
bimberialso, membership gives move/delete rights on help.ubuntu.com iiuc ?08:39
bimberi*h.u.c/community i mean08:39
Burgundaviacurrently, it does nothing because the relevant bits are not connected yet08:40
Burgundaviait will at some point08:40
jsgotangcoBurgundavia: when is the book coming out?08:40
Burgundaviayou also admin/own the aussie team, which played strongly in your favour08:40
Burgundaviajsgotangco: no idea, next month?08:40
jsgotangcoBurgundavia: are you getting copies?08:41
Burgundaviano idea08:41
bimberiBurgundavia: that was just because i was quick :)08:41
bimberibut yes, i'm familiar with launchpad admin08:42
jsgotangconothing stated in your contract i guess if there is one?08:42
Burgundaviahaven't read that in months08:43
mdkeam I an admin of that team already?08:43
bimberihi mdke08:43
Burgundaviamdke: the wiki one? you can be if you only ask08:43
jsgotangcoyes! do not forget our leader!08:43
bimberihang on, i'll make you one :)08:44
mdkeBurgundavia: sure. I'd suggest Brian too08:44
Burgundaviadone and one08:44
BurgundaviaMadpilot: I just gave you the power!08:44
bimberiBurgundavia: you've got lots of deputies now, feel free to kick me off :)08:44
Burgundavianope, see no need to08:44
MadpilotBurgundavia, which power, and how can I abuse it for my own profit and/or amusement?08:44
Burgundaviabetter to have it more distributed08:45
Burgundaviamdke, jsgotangco, Madpilot and myself already have a great deal of power08:45
=== mdke looks around for where he keeps his thunderbolts
=== bimberi is glad someone made light of it
jsgotangcolook deeper in svn08:46
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Burgundaviahey robitaille08:47
robitailleHi Burgundavia 08:47
Burgundaviawe don't want the various teams feeling/looking like old boys clubs08:47
MadpilotBurgundavia, you mean they aren't? ;)08:48
=== mdke doesn't think that is a problem
Burgundavianot currently, but it is something that can appear quickly08:48
mdkeas long as the administrators of that team are people who are active and familiar with the wiki, that is ok08:49
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onkarshindeCan anyone please tell me how to move a page form w.u.c to h.u.c?08:55
bimberimy technique - click edit on w.u.c, create on h.u.c/c and copy and paste 08:56
onkarshindebimberi: Ok. But what about redirect?08:56
bimberionkarshinde: i set it up manually on the w.u.c page08:57
onkarshindebimberi: I want to know how to do autoredirect08:57
bimberionkarshinde: for example:  #refresh 0 https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs08:58
onkarshindeOk. Thanks.09:00
bimberiyw :)09:00
onkarshindebimberi: I plan to move https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RadeonDriverHowto09:01
bimberionkarshinde: iirc the docteam styleguide prefers not to have "Howto" in the name09:03
mdkeyeah, remove that while you are transferring it09:06
onkarshindebimberi: But then there are pages like BinaryDriverHowto, ActiveDirectoryHowto.09:06
onkarshindemdke: Ok. I will remove it.09:06
bimberionkarshinde: i did say 'prefers' :)09:07
onkarshindebimberi: I copied the page to h.u.c Somehow w.u.c is giving network timeout. Can you please set the redirect?09:14
mdkewhat's the address of the new page?09:14
bimberionkarshinde: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RadeonDriver  ??09:15
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onkarshindebimberi: Please redirect https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RadeonDriverHowto to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RadeonDriver09:15
mdkebimberi: i'll do it, I have it open09:16
bimberiyep, doing so 09:16
bimberimdke: ok, it shows as locked by onkarshinde for me anyway09:16
mdkeme too09:17
mdkedone, anyway09:17
bimberiand tested09:18
mdkeso, more replies to the "quality assurance on the wiki" and "categories on the wiki" threads please09:21
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Burgundaviamdke: will do so, but right now I need to sleep09:48
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mdkejjesse: what's the thinking behind doing switching as a book rather than an article?03:06
jjessemdke: the current thought was that each "chapter" would address a specific issue of switching from windows03:07
jjessemdke: for example dealing with specific applications tht will help you move from windows might be larger then one article03:09
jjessei'm going to reply to phil's email he sent out to the list and further explain some thigns03:09
jjessebut this is all subject to change :)03:10
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mdkejjesse: I would have thought an article would work better, myself. Then each "chapter" just becomes a section03:27
mdkeit probably doesn't make a serious difference, I guess03:28
mdkeit would be nice to link it in with other documents, such as manuals for specific applications, if you think that is appropriate03:30
jjesseno that's a great idea to link to other material and other applications03:32
jjessewould need help on how to do that03:32
mdkeit's very easy for Gnome, probably is equally easy for Kde03:33
=== linuxmonkey likes what was done to repositories section in the HUC :)
linuxmonkeygeneral page then branch off to the different ubuntu/kubuntu.03:35
linuxmonkeythat way its not all cluttered and then on those pages at the botton could have a more infomation section linking to the help pages for that application03:36
linuxmonkeyor applications used03:36
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mdkelinuxmonkey: this is more about a document for the distribution, rather than the wiki...03:38
linuxmonkeyah ok03:39
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mdzmgalvin: anything I can do to help with UWN?07:45
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mgalvinmdz: i've just been to busy to get to it this week, if you have time today please feel free to finish it up and send it out, i will certainly have time again starting next week to get them out on time again07:47
mgalvini might have some time today but i can promise i could finish it today07:47
mgalvinsorry about the delay this week, its just been very hectic for me :-/07:50
nixternalmdz and mgalvin, if you need help with it, i can lend a hand today after the cc meeting07:57
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mgalvinnixternal: any help is always welcome :)08:12
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LaserJockmgalvin: is there a draft on the wiki?08:15
mgalvinyea it the #6 WIP at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue608:16
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LaserJocklloydinho: hi!08:28
lloydinhoHi LaserJock!08:32
LaserJocklloydinho: how's it going? you survived the trip home I assume08:33
lloydinhoLaserJock: I did indeed, though I went off to the next conference immediately following the one in Paris.08:34
lloydinhoI spent a week at the GUADEC conference near Barcelona. 08:35
lloydinhoTo see what life is like with the upstream...08:35
LaserJockvery cool08:36
LaserJockdid they complain about downstream a lot? ;-)08:36
lloydinhonot at all, really. 08:37
lloydinhoDaniel and Seb had a Q&A session about Ubuntu, and most of the people there were already happy Ubuntu users.08:38
LaserJockcool, I actually would expect some issues. good to hear08:38
lloydinhoThey didn't have much bother with Ubuntu, though they were slightly annoyed with Launchpad not being open.08:38
lloydinhoIt seems that most of the trouble with Upstream is with Debian, not GNOME.08:39
LaserJockI think quite a bit of that has to do with Daniel and Seb08:40
lloydinhoYeah, Seb is one the top 3 bug reporters on the GNOME bugzilla.08:41
lloydinhoThe amount of work that he ensures reaches GNOME is quite astounding.08:41
lloydinho(but of course, he spends most of his working day sorting useful Launchpad bug reports back upstream)08:42
LaserJockdid you notice many differences between Ubuntu and Gnome communities, from the anthropological prespective08:42
lloydinhoWell, just the way that the conferences were arranged was obviously dissimilar08:43
lloydinhoI got the impression that the GUADEC was much more of a playful "summer camp for geeks" sort of thing.08:45
lloydinhoNot the work-intensive week that was the Ubuntu Summit.08:45
LaserJockParis was my first linux conference so I have nothing to compare too :-)08:45
lloydinhoI wrote a bit about the differences in my blog: http://alligevel.blogspot.com/2006/07/back-from-field.html08:46
lloydinhoYeah, I have little to compare to as well, but from I've heard, the GUADEC was an extraordinarily successful conference for "a very vibrant community".08:47
LaserJockbeing a scientist and having a wife in the social sciences, I'm quite interested in your work. I hope you have a lot of success with it08:47
lloydinhoHey, so do I! But thanks. It's really fascinating work.08:48
LaserJockDebian is a community that is totally fascinating to me08:49
lloydinhohave you heard of Biella Coleman's work on Debian?08:50
LaserJockdo you have a reference for that?08:50
lloydinhoIt's a really good paper.08:51
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LaserJocklloydinho: so will your entire thesis be on Ubuntu?09:13
lloydinhoyes, that is the plan. 09:13
lloydinhoAnd there is plenty of stuff to look at as well.09:14
lloydinhoIf you're interested, My original fieldwork proposal is on my blog as well.09:15
LaserJockah cool09:15
lloydinhounder the "Writings" section in the right hand column.09:16
lloydinhoThe funny thing is that I wrote that proposal in january, and it is really interesting to see how all sorts of aspects appear that I haven't thought of before.09:17
lloydinhoSo many ideas to look at.09:17
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LaserJocklloydinho: oh, I like the research questions09:22
lloydinhoLaserJock: thanks! Some of them are tricky to answer, though..09:24
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LaserJocklloydinho: as an outsider (no CS experience/training or previous OSS experience) there are some things I had to learn for sure ;-)09:29
lloydinhohow so?09:29
LaserJockI remeber the day I told -motu that one of our dept computers had been hacked09:32
LaserJockI got soundly lashed for using the term hacked in a negative sense ;-)09:32
lloydinhooh yes. As you can see in my proposal,  I use the term hackers a lot.09:33
LaserJockyes, I noticed09:33
lloydinhoI had to make it specifically clear what I meant with term.09:33
LaserJockalso learning communication mechanisms09:33
lloydinhoLike IRC?09:34
LaserJockI wasn't on any mailing lists or IRC before working on Ubuntu09:34
lloydinhome neither. It is a very special way of communicating.09:35
lloydinhoHow did you adapt to it?09:35
LaserJockbrute force I suppose, I don't think I really like mailing lists still09:36
LaserJockI enjoy IRC... too much in fact09:36
LaserJockit's sort of the closest to a real conversation we get for the most part09:36
LaserJockI had to get used to TZ's, software politics, relationships between different groups/projects09:37
lloydinhoYeah. It is a lot.09:38
LaserJockwhen I first started I had no idea what the GPL was or what FLOSS meant09:38
LaserJockI knew sort of what open source was09:38
lloydinhoIt is pretty cool that you made it through all of that. It is a lot of cultural knowledge to digest.09:38
LaserJockit is, and I'm still working on it every day09:39
LaserJockI'd say that I spend more time on social work than technical work right now09:39
lloydinhoWell, that is central in this sort of community.09:40
lloydinhoDid you see the job posting for the Community Manager? 09:40
LaserJockyes I did09:40
lloydinhoI thought that was curious.09:40
LaserJockI think that is quite interesting09:40
lloydinhoOn one hand, you want somebody who is respected or accepted in the community.09:41
lloydinhoOn the other, you want someone who has enough distance to the project not to get too involved in personal matters.09:41
nixternalwasabi LaserJock09:42
lloydinhoSo as to be able to advise people to stand down if necessary.09:42
LaserJockI think it is interesting also from a sense of having a Canonical employee as a Community manager09:42
LaserJockI've been thinking/looking at the Canonical-Ubuntu relationship some lately09:43
lloydinhoI think very few people would do a good job in such a position. But it is a unique position, and I'll be quite interested to see how that one develops.09:43
LaserJockme too09:43
LaserJockas I'm part of various communities they will be managing ;-)09:43
LaserJockI have seen the problem that Canonical is trying to address with that position09:44
lloydinhowhat is that?09:44
LaserJockbasically, each of the communities are only as good as their leadership/structure09:44
LaserJockso some (the doc team is a good example I think) do well09:45
LaserJockothers don't do so well09:45
LaserJockalso, a position like that require enough time that it would be basically impossible on a volunteer basis09:46
=== lloydinho nods
LaserJockso you basically end up with a paid person that can ensure that all the various communities inside Ubuntu are on track and have the leadership and structure they need to be succesful09:47
lloydinhoyeah. It is probably the best way to keep the community energized. That was what all of the GUADEC conference was about.09:47
LaserJockwhen the project was smaller it was easier to keep track of the various teams and people09:47
LaserJockyes, keep motivation up is essential09:47
LaserJockvolunteers working as many hours as most in this project do easy burn out09:48
lloydinhoSome of the GNOME head honchos like Luis Villa or Jeff Waugh do this very well.09:48
lloydinhoBut since Ubuntu is still so young a project, we haven't had much time to grow our own such people.09:49
lloydinhoIt would be terrible if the community manager became "that canonical guy"09:49
LaserJockit will be interesting to see who gets the position09:49
lloydinhoI thought immediately that somebody like Mako or mdz would be the best people for the job, since they're already so respected in the community.09:50
lloydinhoBut you can't really hire them twice. ;-)09:50
LaserJockyeah, the issue is that most of the people who would be good for the job are already very valuable in the position that they have09:50
LaserJockmako is not employeed by Canonical so I guess he could be rehired ;-)09:51
LaserJockbut I think he wants to focus on other things09:51
nixternalsorry for spamming, but i am going for ubuntu membership, and as long as i haven't made you made at me, you are welcome to provide support, that is of course if i did something to help you out. thanks guys!!! 10 minutes til meeting09:52
lloydinhoyeah. He is very busy with the OLPC project and other stuff,09:52
LaserJocknixternal: CC meeting time already? I'll try to be there09:53
lloydinhoooh. yes.09:53
nixternalthat it is LaserJock, i appreciate it...if you can't make it, i will change have that voice over put in on that last podcast ;)09:53
LaserJockmy first interview ever, all ruined by a rouge membership applicant ;-)09:54
LaserJocknixternal: if you were going for membership in Edubuntu, I'd get to grill you :-)09:55
LaserJockto bad09:55
nixternalmaybe one of these days...as i am trying to get a little more involved since i am pushing edubuntu to my local church and schools09:55
LaserJockgood, good09:55
nixternalthe church i goto is huge, so big in fact they have a large computer lab for children09:56
nixternalthats where i fit in ;)09:56
nixternali also had the opportunity of installing 40 systems total, 20 donated by Bill and Melinda gates, and 20 refurbed system with Edubuntu to a couple under priviledged schools09:57
LaserJockwell, some day there will be an Ubuntu based distro for churches with lots of good stuff, hopefully with LTSP and everything09:57
nixternalthe windows boxes are empty, just windows, and they have to purchase software...they use the Edubuntu boxes and a teacher even informed me how great schooltool is..which i want to play with now09:57
LaserJockway cool09:58
nixternalwhen i did this, i had no idea the power of Edubuntu and the free apps available for it...the teacher informed me ;)09:58
LaserJockwell, we're working on getting it even better for edgy09:58
nixternali can't wait..i have a system here with it setup, and i just need to find time to play with it more09:59
LaserJockI'm going to work on getting some meta-package in Universe to pull together common apps09:59
nixternalthats cool09:59
LaserJockand we are trying to get XFCE on there for low end computers09:59
nixternali have a couple of friends who are teachers and i want to show them what it can do..maybe get them interested10:00
LaserJocknixternal: make sure to tell them we'd love feedback from teachers10:00
nixternali can do that10:00
nixternali am waiting for my Edubuntu cd's, and i will put a pamphlet together so when i hand them out they will get extra info like that for it10:01
LaserJocktake a look at http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/school-advocacy/C/index.html if you haven't already10:01
LaserJockit is a little Edubuntu pamphlet that will hopefully go around England10:02
Burgworknixternal, I will have an edubuntu case study done by the end of the week I expect10:02
nixternali have the svn local, so i will go through all of that, for sure10:02
nixternalgood deal Burgwork, i know you have been working diligently on it10:02
LaserJockBurgwork: great10:02
BurgworkI just need to get a free evening to work on it. So far I have failed completely in that regard10:04
LaserJockhaha, I've given up on the thought of having a free evening10:05
LaserJockI've almost completly given up on TV and gaming10:05
BurgworkI am single, so that helps10:05
nixternalwhat is TV?10:06
nixternalgaming i gave up 4 years ago10:06
LaserJockthat thing I don't watch any more10:06
LaserJockother then the News to see how bad Reno is10:06
nixternali catch the news once in a great while...but thats what akregator is for10:06
LaserJockharder to see how many people have been killed in my neighborhood via RSS10:07
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LaserJockhaha, that was fun10:53
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