[01:22] <linuxmonkey> wassup guys
[01:27] <LaserJock> hard at work, or asleep I'm guessing
[01:28] <Burgwork> neither
[01:28] <linuxmonkey> lol.. 
[01:28] <linuxmonkey> lol
[01:37] <LaserJock> I'm trying to make some scripts to make my life easier
[01:40] <linuxmonkey> lol @ LaserJock
[01:53] <LaserJock> linuxmonkey: http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/motuscience/all.html
[01:53] <LaserJock> ^^ makes my life easer
[01:53] <linuxmonkey> lol
[01:54] <linuxmonkey> i was supposed to learn packaging, but no one was willing to help me and i got lost..lol
[01:55] <LaserJock> https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
[01:55] <LaserJock> and ask -motu
[01:56] <LaserJock> I'm up to 452 packages, \o/
[01:56] <LaserJock> I'm sure glad Debian is around ;-)
[01:56] <linuxmonkey> yeah im gonna do that. and also need to know how to help with docs too.. all ive been doing is wiki's
[01:57] <LaserJock> I'd just check out the svn repo and poke around
[08:22] <Burgundavia> any suggestions for admins for the wiki team?
[08:25] <Plug> What do they have to dO?
[08:26] <Burgundavia> Plug: be active on the wiki, be a known quantity in the community, be an Ubuntu member, and the final and most important qualification, I have to know and trust you
[08:28] <jsgotangco> heh
[08:29] <jsgotangco> i rarely touch the wiki lately
[08:29] <jsgotangco> except for some quick edits and cleanups
[08:30] <Burgundavia> nor do I
[08:30] <Burgundavia> too little time
[08:32] <bimberi> Burgundavia: i'd be willing
[08:33] <Burgundavia> sure, what is your wikiname?
[08:33] <bimberi> DavidSymons
[08:35] <Burgundavia> your lp name?
[08:35] <bimberi> bimberi
[08:35] <bimberi> i'm already on the wiki team
[08:36] <Burgundavia> there is not much todo
[08:36] <Burgundavia> it is more insurance for the "bus event" ie: I get hit by a bus or are otherwise not available
[08:37] <Burgundavia> it provides a clear person to devolve power too
[08:37] <Burgundavia> s/too/to
[08:38] <bimberi> ok, the team's wikipage says "The adminstrators will add you if you have already done a bit of editing on the wiki" - i guess that's doing a search on a candidate's wikiname and having a browse?
[08:38] <Burgundavia> yep
[08:39] <bimberi> also, membership gives move/delete rights on help.ubuntu.com iiuc ?
[08:39] <bimberi> *h.u.c/community i mean
[08:40] <Burgundavia> currently, it does nothing because the relevant bits are not connected yet
[08:40] <Burgundavia> it will at some point
[08:40] <bimberi> kk
[08:40] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: when is the book coming out?
[08:40] <Burgundavia> you also admin/own the aussie team, which played strongly in your favour
[08:40] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco: no idea, next month?
[08:41] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: are you getting copies?
[08:41] <Burgundavia> no idea
[08:41] <bimberi> Burgundavia: that was just because i was quick :)
[08:42] <bimberi> but yes, i'm familiar with launchpad admin
[08:42] <jsgotangco> nothing stated in your contract i guess if there is one?
[08:43] <Burgundavia> haven't read that in months
[08:43] <mdke> morning
[08:43] <jsgotangco> hi
[08:43] <mdke> am I an admin of that team already?
[08:43] <bimberi> hi mdke
[08:43] <Burgundavia> mdke: the wiki one? you can be if you only ask
[08:43] <jsgotangco> yes! do not forget our leader!
[08:44] <bimberi> hang on, i'll make you one :)
[08:44] <mdke> Burgundavia: sure. I'd suggest Brian too
[08:44] <Burgundavia> done and one
[08:44] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: I just gave you the power!
[08:44] <bimberi> Burgundavia: you've got lots of deputies now, feel free to kick me off :)
[08:44] <Burgundavia> nope, see no need to
[08:44] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, which power, and how can I abuse it for my own profit and/or amusement?
[08:45] <bimberi> yet
[08:45] <Burgundavia> better to have it more distributed
[08:45] <bimberi> agreed
[08:45] <Burgundavia> mdke, jsgotangco, Madpilot and myself already have a great deal of power
[08:46] <jsgotangco> look deeper in svn
[08:47] <Burgundavia> hey robitaille
[08:47] <robitaille> Hi Burgundavia 
[08:47] <Burgundavia> we don't want the various teams feeling/looking like old boys clubs
[08:48] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, you mean they aren't? ;)
[08:48] <Burgundavia> not currently, but it is something that can appear quickly
[08:48] <jsgotangco> yes
[08:49] <mdke> as long as the administrators of that team are people who are active and familiar with the wiki, that is ok
[08:55] <onkarshinde> Can anyone please tell me how to move a page form w.u.c to h.u.c?
[08:56] <bimberi> my technique - click edit on w.u.c, create on h.u.c/c and copy and paste 
[08:56] <onkarshinde> bimberi: Ok. But what about redirect?
[08:57] <bimberi> onkarshinde: i set it up manually on the w.u.c page
[08:57] <onkarshinde> bimberi: I want to know how to do autoredirect
[08:58] <bimberi> onkarshinde: for example:  #refresh 0 https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs
[09:00] <onkarshinde> Ok. Thanks.
[09:00] <bimberi> yw :)
[09:01] <onkarshinde> bimberi: I plan to move https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RadeonDriverHowto
[09:03] <bimberi> onkarshinde: iirc the docteam styleguide prefers not to have "Howto" in the name
[09:06] <mdke> yeah, remove that while you are transferring it
[09:06] <onkarshinde> bimberi: But then there are pages like BinaryDriverHowto, ActiveDirectoryHowto.
[09:06] <onkarshinde> mdke: Ok. I will remove it.
[09:07] <bimberi> onkarshinde: i did say 'prefers' :)
[09:14] <onkarshinde> bimberi: I copied the page to h.u.c Somehow w.u.c is giving network timeout. Can you please set the redirect?
[09:14] <mdke> what's the address of the new page?
[09:15] <bimberi> onkarshinde: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RadeonDriver  ??
[09:15] <onkarshinde> bimberi: Please redirect https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RadeonDriverHowto to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RadeonDriver
[09:16] <mdke> bimberi: i'll do it, I have it open
[09:16] <bimberi> yep, doing so 
[09:16] <bimberi> mdke: ok, it shows as locked by onkarshinde for me anyway
[09:17] <mdke> me too
[09:17] <mdke> done, anyway
[09:18] <bimberi> and tested
[09:21] <mdke> so, more replies to the "quality assurance on the wiki" and "categories on the wiki" threads please
[09:48] <Burgundavia> mdke: will do so, but right now I need to sleep
[03:06] <mdke> jjesse: what's the thinking behind doing switching as a book rather than an article?
[03:07] <jsgotangco> ?
[03:07] <jjesse> mdke: the current thought was that each "chapter" would address a specific issue of switching from windows
[03:09] <jjesse> mdke: for example dealing with specific applications tht will help you move from windows might be larger then one article
[03:09] <jjesse> i'm going to reply to phil's email he sent out to the list and further explain some thigns
[03:10] <jjesse> but this is all subject to change :)
[03:27] <mdke> jjesse: I would have thought an article would work better, myself. Then each "chapter" just becomes a section
[03:28] <mdke> it probably doesn't make a serious difference, I guess
[03:30] <mdke> it would be nice to link it in with other documents, such as manuals for specific applications, if you think that is appropriate
[03:32] <jjesse> no that's a great idea to link to other material and other applications
[03:32] <jjesse> would need help on how to do that
[03:33] <mdke> it's very easy for Gnome, probably is equally easy for Kde
[03:34] <jjesse> ok
[03:35] <linuxmonkey> general page then branch off to the different ubuntu/kubuntu.
[03:36] <linuxmonkey> that way its not all cluttered and then on those pages at the botton could have a more infomation section linking to the help pages for that application
[03:36] <linuxmonkey> or applications used
[03:38] <mdke> linuxmonkey: this is more about a document for the distribution, rather than the wiki...
[03:39] <linuxmonkey> ah ok
[04:13] <jsgotangco> goodnight
[07:45] <mdz> mgalvin: anything I can do to help with UWN?
[07:47] <mgalvin> mdz: i've just been to busy to get to it this week, if you have time today please feel free to finish it up and send it out, i will certainly have time again starting next week to get them out on time again
[07:47] <mgalvin> i might have some time today but i can promise i could finish it today
[07:48] <mgalvin> s/can/can't/
[07:50] <mgalvin> sorry about the delay this week, its just been very hectic for me :-/
[07:56] <mdz> understood
[07:57] <nixternal> mdz and mgalvin, if you need help with it, i can lend a hand today after the cc meeting
[08:12] <mgalvin> nixternal: any help is always welcome :)
[08:15] <LaserJock> mgalvin: is there a draft on the wiki?
[08:16] <mgalvin> yea it the #6 WIP at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue6
[08:28] <LaserJock> lloydinho: hi!
[08:32] <lloydinho> Hi LaserJock!
[08:33] <LaserJock> lloydinho: how's it going? you survived the trip home I assume
[08:34] <lloydinho> LaserJock: I did indeed, though I went off to the next conference immediately following the one in Paris.
[08:35] <lloydinho> I spent a week at the GUADEC conference near Barcelona. 
[08:35] <lloydinho> To see what life is like with the upstream...
[08:36] <LaserJock> very cool
[08:36] <LaserJock> did they complain about downstream a lot? ;-)
[08:37] <lloydinho> not at all, really. 
[08:38] <lloydinho> Daniel and Seb had a Q&A session about Ubuntu, and most of the people there were already happy Ubuntu users.
[08:38] <LaserJock> cool, I actually would expect some issues. good to hear
[08:38] <lloydinho> They didn't have much bother with Ubuntu, though they were slightly annoyed with Launchpad not being open.
[08:39] <lloydinho> It seems that most of the trouble with Upstream is with Debian, not GNOME.
[08:40] <LaserJock> interesting
[08:40] <LaserJock> I think quite a bit of that has to do with Daniel and Seb
[08:41] <lloydinho> Yeah, Seb is one the top 3 bug reporters on the GNOME bugzilla.
[08:41] <lloydinho> The amount of work that he ensures reaches GNOME is quite astounding.
[08:42] <LaserJock> yes
[08:42] <lloydinho> (but of course, he spends most of his working day sorting useful Launchpad bug reports back upstream)
[08:42] <LaserJock> did you notice many differences between Ubuntu and Gnome communities, from the anthropological prespective
[08:43] <lloydinho> Well, just the way that the conferences were arranged was obviously dissimilar
[08:45] <lloydinho> I got the impression that the GUADEC was much more of a playful "summer camp for geeks" sort of thing.
[08:45] <LaserJock> yeah
[08:45] <lloydinho> Not the work-intensive week that was the Ubuntu Summit.
[08:45] <LaserJock> Paris was my first linux conference so I have nothing to compare too :-)
[08:46] <lloydinho> I wrote a bit about the differences in my blog: http://alligevel.blogspot.com/2006/07/back-from-field.html
[08:47] <lloydinho> Yeah, I have little to compare to as well, but from I've heard, the GUADEC was an extraordinarily successful conference for "a very vibrant community".
[08:47] <LaserJock> being a scientist and having a wife in the social sciences, I'm quite interested in your work. I hope you have a lot of success with it
[08:48] <lloydinho> Hey, so do I! But thanks. It's really fascinating work.
[08:49] <LaserJock> Debian is a community that is totally fascinating to me
[08:50] <lloydinho> have you heard of Biella Coleman's work on Debian?
[08:50] <LaserJock> no
[08:50] <LaserJock> do you have a reference for that?
[08:51] <lloydinho> http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=805287
[08:51] <lloydinho> It's a really good paper.
[09:10] <linuxmonkey> wassup
[09:13] <LaserJock> lloydinho: so will your entire thesis be on Ubuntu?
[09:13] <lloydinho> yes, that is the plan. 
[09:14] <lloydinho> And there is plenty of stuff to look at as well.
[09:15] <lloydinho> If you're interested, My original fieldwork proposal is on my blog as well.
[09:15] <LaserJock> ah cool
[09:16] <lloydinho> under the "Writings" section in the right hand column.
[09:17] <lloydinho> The funny thing is that I wrote that proposal in january, and it is really interesting to see how all sorts of aspects appear that I haven't thought of before.
[09:17] <lloydinho> So many ideas to look at.
[09:18] <LaserJock> yes
[09:22] <LaserJock> lloydinho: oh, I like the research questions
[09:24] <lloydinho> LaserJock: thanks! Some of them are tricky to answer, though..
[09:25] <LaserJock> yes
[09:29] <LaserJock> lloydinho: as an outsider (no CS experience/training or previous OSS experience) there are some things I had to learn for sure ;-)
[09:29] <LaserJock> socially
[09:29] <lloydinho> how so?
[09:32] <LaserJock> I remeber the day I told -motu that one of our dept computers had been hacked
[09:32] <LaserJock> I got soundly lashed for using the term hacked in a negative sense ;-)
[09:33] <lloydinho> oh yes. As you can see in my proposal,  I use the term hackers a lot.
[09:33] <LaserJock> yes, I noticed
[09:33] <lloydinho> I had to make it specifically clear what I meant with term.
[09:33] <LaserJock> also learning communication mechanisms
[09:34] <lloydinho> Like IRC?
[09:34] <LaserJock> I wasn't on any mailing lists or IRC before working on Ubuntu
[09:35] <lloydinho> me neither. It is a very special way of communicating.
[09:35] <lloydinho> How did you adapt to it?
[09:36] <LaserJock> brute force I suppose, I don't think I really like mailing lists still
[09:36] <LaserJock> I enjoy IRC... too much in fact
[09:36] <Burgwork> heh
[09:36] <LaserJock> it's sort of the closest to a real conversation we get for the most part
[09:37] <LaserJock> I had to get used to TZ's, software politics, relationships between different groups/projects
[09:38] <lloydinho> Yeah. It is a lot.
[09:38] <LaserJock> when I first started I had no idea what the GPL was or what FLOSS meant
[09:38] <LaserJock> I knew sort of what open source was
[09:38] <lloydinho> It is pretty cool that you made it through all of that. It is a lot of cultural knowledge to digest.
[09:39] <LaserJock> it is, and I'm still working on it every day
[09:39] <LaserJock> I'd say that I spend more time on social work than technical work right now
[09:40] <lloydinho> Well, that is central in this sort of community.
[09:40] <lloydinho> Did you see the job posting for the Community Manager? 
[09:40] <LaserJock> yes I did
[09:40] <lloydinho> I thought that was curious.
[09:40] <LaserJock> I think that is quite interesting
[09:41] <lloydinho> On one hand, you want somebody who is respected or accepted in the community.
[09:41] <lloydinho> On the other, you want someone who has enough distance to the project not to get too involved in personal matters.
[09:42] <nixternal> wasabi LaserJock
[09:42] <lloydinho> So as to be able to advise people to stand down if necessary.
[09:42] <LaserJock> I think it is interesting also from a sense of having a Canonical employee as a Community manager
[09:43] <LaserJock> I've been thinking/looking at the Canonical-Ubuntu relationship some lately
[09:43] <lloydinho> I think very few people would do a good job in such a position. But it is a unique position, and I'll be quite interested to see how that one develops.
[09:43] <LaserJock> me too
[09:43] <LaserJock> as I'm part of various communities they will be managing ;-)
[09:44] <LaserJock> I have seen the problem that Canonical is trying to address with that position
[09:44] <lloydinho> what is that?
[09:44] <LaserJock> basically, each of the communities are only as good as their leadership/structure
[09:45] <LaserJock> so some (the doc team is a good example I think) do well
[09:45] <LaserJock> others don't do so well
[09:46] <LaserJock> also, a position like that require enough time that it would be basically impossible on a volunteer basis
[09:47] <LaserJock> so you basically end up with a paid person that can ensure that all the various communities inside Ubuntu are on track and have the leadership and structure they need to be succesful
[09:47] <lloydinho> yeah. It is probably the best way to keep the community energized. That was what all of the GUADEC conference was about.
[09:47] <LaserJock> when the project was smaller it was easier to keep track of the various teams and people
[09:47] <LaserJock> yes, keep motivation up is essential
[09:48] <LaserJock> volunteers working as many hours as most in this project do easy burn out
[09:48] <lloydinho> Some of the GNOME head honchos like Luis Villa or Jeff Waugh do this very well.
[09:49] <lloydinho> But since Ubuntu is still so young a project, we haven't had much time to grow our own such people.
[09:49] <lloydinho> It would be terrible if the community manager became "that canonical guy"
[09:49] <LaserJock> right
[09:49] <LaserJock> it will be interesting to see who gets the position
[09:50] <lloydinho> I thought immediately that somebody like Mako or mdz would be the best people for the job, since they're already so respected in the community.
[09:50] <lloydinho> But you can't really hire them twice. ;-)
[09:50] <LaserJock> yeah, the issue is that most of the people who would be good for the job are already very valuable in the position that they have
[09:51] <LaserJock> mako is not employeed by Canonical so I guess he could be rehired ;-)
[09:51] <LaserJock> but I think he wants to focus on other things
[09:52] <nixternal> sorry for spamming, but i am going for ubuntu membership, and as long as i haven't made you made at me, you are welcome to provide support, that is of course if i did something to help you out. thanks guys!!! 10 minutes til meeting
[09:52] <lloydinho> yeah. He is very busy with the OLPC project and other stuff,
[09:53] <LaserJock> nixternal: CC meeting time already? I'll try to be there
[09:53] <lloydinho> ooh. yes.
[09:53] <nixternal> that it is LaserJock, i appreciate it...if you can't make it, i will change have that voice over put in on that last podcast ;)
[09:54] <LaserJock> haha
[09:54] <LaserJock> my first interview ever, all ruined by a rouge membership applicant ;-)
[09:54] <nixternal> lol
[09:55] <LaserJock> nixternal: if you were going for membership in Edubuntu, I'd get to grill you :-)
[09:55] <LaserJock> to bad
[09:55] <nixternal> maybe one of these days...as i am trying to get a little more involved since i am pushing edubuntu to my local church and schools
[09:55] <LaserJock> good, good
[09:56] <nixternal> the church i goto is huge, so big in fact they have a large computer lab for children
[09:56] <LaserJock> wow
[09:56] <nixternal> thats where i fit in ;)
[09:57] <nixternal> i also had the opportunity of installing 40 systems total, 20 donated by Bill and Melinda gates, and 20 refurbed system with Edubuntu to a couple under priviledged schools
[09:57] <LaserJock> well, some day there will be an Ubuntu based distro for churches with lots of good stuff, hopefully with LTSP and everything
[09:57] <nixternal> the windows boxes are empty, just windows, and they have to purchase software...they use the Edubuntu boxes and a teacher even informed me how great schooltool is..which i want to play with now
[09:58] <LaserJock> way cool
[09:58] <nixternal> when i did this, i had no idea the power of Edubuntu and the free apps available for it...the teacher informed me ;)
[09:58] <LaserJock> well, we're working on getting it even better for edgy
[09:59] <nixternal> i can't wait..i have a system here with it setup, and i just need to find time to play with it more
[09:59] <LaserJock> I'm going to work on getting some meta-package in Universe to pull together common apps
[09:59] <nixternal> thats cool
[09:59] <LaserJock> and we are trying to get XFCE on there for low end computers
[10:00] <nixternal> i have a couple of friends who are teachers and i want to show them what it can do..maybe get them interested
[10:00] <LaserJock> nixternal: make sure to tell them we'd love feedback from teachers
[10:00] <nixternal> i can do that
[10:01] <nixternal> i am waiting for my Edubuntu cd's, and i will put a pamphlet together so when i hand them out they will get extra info like that for it
[10:01] <LaserJock> take a look at http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/school-advocacy/C/index.html if you haven't already
[10:02] <nixternal> nice
[10:02] <LaserJock> it is a little Edubuntu pamphlet that will hopefully go around England
[10:02] <Burgwork> nixternal, I will have an edubuntu case study done by the end of the week I expect
[10:02] <nixternal> i have the svn local, so i will go through all of that, for sure
[10:02] <nixternal> good deal Burgwork, i know you have been working diligently on it
[10:02] <LaserJock> Burgwork: great
[10:04] <Burgwork> I just need to get a free evening to work on it. So far I have failed completely in that regard
[10:05] <LaserJock> haha, I've given up on the thought of having a free evening
[10:05] <LaserJock> I've almost completly given up on TV and gaming
[10:05] <Burgwork> I am single, so that helps
[10:06] <nixternal> what is TV?
[10:06] <nixternal> gaming i gave up 4 years ago
[10:06] <LaserJock> that thing I don't watch any more
[10:06] <nixternal> hehe
[10:06] <LaserJock> other then the News to see how bad Reno is
[10:06] <nixternal> i catch the news once in a great while...but thats what akregator is for
[10:07] <LaserJock> harder to see how many people have been killed in my neighborhood via RSS
[10:07] <nixternal> haha
[10:53] <LaserJock> haha, that was fun