/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/07/12/#ubuntu-devel.txt

KeybukKamion: ok, all given back12:07
KeybukEvaso2: the basic problem with the VPN plugins is that there's no way to handle DNS for them12:08
Evaso2Keybuk: take a look here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/onlymee/161934943/12:09
Keybukbecause they don't use DHCP, you'd have to spam over resolv.conf, and make sure it gets put back, etc.  and n-m has no infrastructure to do that12:09
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Keybuk*shrug* that's a screenshot12:09
Keybuknot proof of any working code12:09
Evaso2There is the code to keep dns from the peers or not12:10
Keybukyou're just not listening, are you?12:10
Keybukit's not the plugins that's the problem12:10
Keybukor what they support12:10
Keybukit's the fact that it breaks the _system_12:10
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Kamionwith a brick attached12:11
Evaso2but the actual version 0.6.2 how gets dns?12:11
Keybukwe talked a bit about n-m in Paris, and we came up with the idea that it might be the right thing to do to have network-manager Conflict with things like ifupdown and the gnome-system-tools12:11
Keybukso if you install network-manager, you just don't have the "traditional" system configuration there12:11
Keybukthat way we don't have to worry about it12:11
KeybukEvaso2: 0.6.2 doesn't support VPN12:11
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Keybukfor normal connections, it calls dhclient which sets up the DNS based on DHCP responses12:12
Keybukthere's no dhclient involved in VPN12:12
Evaso2How the dns is offered by the vpn peers?12:12
KeybukEvaso2: aiui it's part of whatever VPN protocol is being talked12:14
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BurgworkKeybuk, conflicting with gnome-system-tools means you would rip out ubuntu-desktop at the same time, no?12:15
KeybukBurgwork: conflicting with netbase would mean you had to rip out EVERYTHING :p12:16
Keybukso, as a plan, it needs work12:16
Keybukedgy+1, definitely12:16
Keybukour edgy n-m plan is just "sync with Debian and largely ignore it"12:16
Evaso2Keybuk: but userpeerdns is only an option of pppd12:16
BurgworkKeybuk, the nm people also have no plans for static address setting12:16
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Evaso2Keybuk: and i think that the pptp vpn plugin use this pppd option to keep dns peers on point to point12:18
Evaso2Keybuk: why you not disable also this pppd feature?12:18
KeybukBurgwork: if you install n-m, you don't care about static dns12:19
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KeybukEvaso2: because ppp works correctly out of the box12:19
mdzKamion: sftp updates of the checkout that I keep locally take forever, even if there are few revisions to update12:19
KeybukEvaso2: I haven't yet looked at the evolution ppp vpn plugin in detail recently, if it now just calls ppp and doesn't futz about, then it might be ok12:19
Evaso2Keybuk: are u on dapper now?12:20
KeybukEvaso2: dapper and edgy12:20
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Evaso2Keybuk : i'm on debian, can u try this  man pppd | grep usepeerdns12:20
KeybukEvaso2: why would I check that?12:21
Keybukwe're not talking about pppd12:21
Keybukwe're talking about network manager12:21
Evaso2Because the pptp vpn plugin and other software already in ubuntu like (kvpnc) use this option of pppd to keep pptp peer dns12:22
Kamionmdz: really? they're very quick for me12:22
Kamiona couple of seconds at worst12:23
mdzKamion: I'm using bound branches, you/12:23
mdz?12:23
mdzbzr update  0.57s user 0.07s system 4% cpu 13.702 total12:23
mdzthat's typical for ~1 revision12:23
Kamionhmm, it does seem to be a bit longer now you mention it12:24
Kamionreal    0m17.621s12:24
Kamionuser    0m2.048s12:24
Kamionsys     0m0.400s12:24
Kamionbut still doesn't seem worth stressing about12:24
mdzit's long enough that I can't wait for it, and go off to do something else12:25
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Evaso2Keybuk: from the pptp vpn source code12:25
Evaso2Actually there is one exception... Many distros have an ip-up script which imple ments usepeerdns functionality thus replacing resolve.conf... This conflicts wit h NetworkManager's actions so may need to be removed. Sadly there appears to be no way to tell pppd NOT to execute /etc/ppp/ip-up if it exists!12:25
Evaso2so this is a problem about ip-up and pppd about the usepeerdns pppd option12:26
KeybukEvaso2: interesting how you start to see the problems when you read the code, isn't it :p12:26
Keybukall of the vpn plugins suffer similar problems12:26
Evaso2but also pppd connection in general that use usepeerdns option12:27
SurakI just took a quick look to gnome-system-tools, and as far as I can see, it communicates with some perl backends, right?12:27
KeybukEvaso2: the fundamental problem is that if we have to support network-manager, we want it to behave correctly and interoperate with the rest of the system12:27
KeybukEvaso2: we can therefore choose to either disable those parts that cause problems, or we can choose to not support it at all12:28
Keybukwhere not support ~= put it in universe12:28
Evaso2Keybuk: ok... like Kvpnc12:28
Evaso2because kvpnc in dapper use the usepeerdns option12:29
Keybukat the moment we have an amount of legacy crud in the system to support networking12:29
Keybukifupdown, netbase, etc. upwards12:29
Keybukall of which are pretty bad, but at least have the virtue of working and being understood12:29
Evaso2Keybuk: the problem is about coordinate static and dynamic network12:29
Keybukn-m breaks them all, which is fine if all you want is n-m, but people come up with creative ways of having problems by trying to use n-m *and* static networks, etc.12:30
Keybukand we'd rather have that impossible, than get the bugs12:30
mdzKamion: the supported seed is a joy now with Extra-Include12:31
Evaso2Keybuk: yes of course but imho is a profile use problem12:31
Kamionmdz: I am much happier with it12:31
Kamiondoing it found a few seed bugs too (as expected)12:31
Evaso2if an user choiche dynamic network could not use static and vice-versa12:31
mdzKamion: have you ever seen this?12:32
mdzW: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/edgy/main/binary-amd64/Packages.gz was corrupt12:32
mdzI got it on sparc as well12:32
mdzI've made three attempts and at least one architecture has failed in that way each time12:32
KeybukEvaso2: at some point in the future, we'll want to have a replacment networking stack that all just works12:32
KeybukEvaso2: and I strongly suspect that n-m will be that replacement stack, once it's mature enough12:32
Kamionmdz: yes, I get it occasionally, but retrying usually clears it up. Perhaps you're behind a transparent proxy?12:33
mdzKamion: I'm behind a non-transparent proxy, but even when I disable that, it happens12:33
mdzhas debootstrap always checked md5sum against the Release file?12:34
mdzKamion: the annoying thing is that it doesn't fail, so I don't notice until everything is finished and I have to start over12:35
Evaso2Keybuk: what are the interaction of /etc/ppp/ip-up.d/0000usepeerdns with the pptp vpn plugin?12:35
Kamionmdz: that should be fixable ...12:35
Kamiondunno about always but it's been there for a long time12:35
mdzI've never had this happen when I don't use my local proxy12:36
sladenpitti: I think upstream took the patch to fix the paths, so maybe a sync, I haven't checked yet.12:36
mdzuntil now12:36
mdzerr12:39
mdzAdded pbbuttonsd to desktop-i38612:39
mdzoh, I guess that's sensible no12:39
mdzw12:39
SurakI'm asking this because gnome cvs now uses liboobs, which is not in ubuntu yet. So I just quite didn't get the exact point where the G-S-T communicates with that perl backends12:39
ograogra@edubuntu:/mnt/devel/packages/gnome-power-manager-2.15.4$ apt-cache madison liboobs12:41
ogra   liboobs | 0.1.0-0ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/main Sources12:41
ograits there ...12:41
ograjust no binary yet12:41
mdzhttps://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/22365912:42
Surakhm, dapper here. was taking a look at bug #1477412:42
UbugtuMalone bug 14774 in gst "Shared folders requires a login" [Unknown,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1477412:42
mdzKamion: binaries which aren't built anymore are producing a lot of noise in anastacia; does germinate already have enough information on hand to trivially exclude those?12:46
mdzer, I guess it'd be anastacia and not germinate12:46
mdzand anastacia wouldn't12:46
Surakcreating a sub{} to call smbpasswd in /usr/share/setup-tool-backends/scripts/share.pl and a user/password field for it in the G-S-T in the 'general windows sharings settings' would fix this bug.12:47
Kamionmdz: archive-cruft-check reports on those; I'll do a removal pass at some point soon12:47
Kamionmdz: I don't really want to deal with them somewhere else as well12:48
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Kamionmdz: pbbuttonsd can be made [powerpc]  if we don't want it on i386; it was added for MacBooks though12:48
LaserJockis the ubuntu-archive team interested in packages in the wrong section or wrong component?12:48
KamionLaserJock: wrong component we have a report on (anastacia)12:49
mdzKamion: for some reason, gnutls11 is showing up for promotion to main in anastacia12:49
KamionLaserJock: wrong section, sure, if you like12:49
mdzmaybe something to do with gnutls-bin moving around12:49
Kamionship.build-depends:libgnutls11                | gnutls11            | libxmlsec1-gnutls                  | Matthias Urlichs <smurf@debian.org>                                    |          407344 |            120412:49
Evaso2Keybuk: so actually pptp n-m plugin seems to rely on pppd so there is any addictive problem then simply creating a manually pppd connection12:49
Kamionship.build-depends:libxmlsec1-gnutls          | xmlsec1             | libxmlsec1-dev                     | John V. Belmonte <jbelmonte@debian.org>                                |           41416 |             16412:50
Kamionsupported+build-depends:libxmlsec1-dev                      | xmlsec1                         | openoffice.org (Build-Depend)                | John V. Belmonte <jbelmonte@debian.org>                                               |         1074206 |            630012:50
pygiKamion, !!! :P12:50
mdzurgh12:50
Kamionor http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-output/edgy/rdepends/ALL/libgnutls11 for that matter12:51
mdzit build-depends on libgnutls-dev though, which is gnutls1312:52
=== Toadstool is now known as ToadZzZztool
KamionPackage: libxmlsec1-gnutls12:54
KamionVersion: 1.2.9-1ubuntu112:54
KamionDepends: libc6 (>= 2.3.4-1), libgnutls12 (>= 1.2.5), libxml2 (>= 2.4.24), libxmlsec1 (>= 1.2.9), libxslt1.1 (>= 1.0.20), zlib1g (>= 1:1.2.1)12:54
KamionPackage: libxmlsec1-gnutls12:54
KamionVersion: 1.2.9-3ubuntu112:54
KamionDepends: libc6 (>= 2.4-1), libgnutls11 (>= 1.0.0), libxml2 (>= 2.6.12), libxmlsec1 (>= 1.2.9), libxslt1.1 (>= 1.0.20), zlib1g (>= 1:1.2.1)12:54
Kamionit appears to have regressed lately12:54
Kamionmdz: libgnutls-dev isn't the relevant arc in the graph12:55
bluefoxicyo.o my screan is full of noise12:55
mdzKamion: http://librarian.launchpad.net/3309974/buildlog_ubuntu-edgy-i386.xmlsec1_1.2.9-3ubuntu1_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz clearly shows libgnutls13 being installed, then ending up with a gnutls11 dependency anyway12:56
mdzand the library is in fact linked with libgnutls.so.1312:56
anibalKamion, could you please review busybox 1.1.3-2ubuntu1, bug #5270612:56
UbugtuMalone bug 52706 in busybox "please merge busybox 1.1.3-2ubuntu1" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5270612:56
mdzdebian/shlibs.local:libgnutls 13 libgnutls11 (>= 1.0.0)12:56
mdzO.M.G.12:56
mdzI have got to see the changelog for that one12:57
mdzoh I bet it's this12:57
mdz"  * Adjust gnutls dependency (Closes: #335771)"12:57
Kamionanibal: ok, in the morning12:58
Kamion(for the record, I usually find that reviewing merges is about as time-consuming as just doing them ;-))12:58
Kamionbut thanks12:58
anibalKamion, it's 08:57, Wed morning already :)12:58
Kamionfor you maybe ...12:58
sladenanibal: ...and now it's Wednesday morning for Kamion too01:00
anibalKamion, what process should I go through to upload them directly?01:00
Kamionanibal: you would need to be approved for ubuntu-core-dev01:00
Kamion(I'd really prefer non-installer people didn't upload busybox though - it's very core and sometimes needs to be coordinated carefully)01:00
Kamion(though if you were doing installer hacking, it would be fine)01:01
mdzanibal: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newdev01:01
anibalKamion, during debconf6, frans show us how easy is to do d-i hacking01:02
Kamionanibal: for the record please don't subscribe ubuntu-archive to merge bugs01:02
anibalmdz, thanks01:02
Kamionubuntu-archive only needs to know about syncs01:02
anibalKamion, okay01:02
Kamion(i.e. unmodified sync)01:02
mdzKamion: I was thinking, is there even any reason for ubuntu-archive to be involved in syncs, where the requestor has upload privileges for the relevant component?01:03
mdzI suppose it's convenient with larger packages not to have to download and upload again, but in general it would be quicker and more convenient01:04
Kamionmdz: when soyuz can make it happen by letting you press a button, there will be no reason01:04
Kamionand that is the eventual plan01:04
Kamionin the meantime, the current sync policy removes a lot of human error possibility01:04
Kamionit's very easy to accidentally upload the wrong thing, or think that it's ok to download the package and re-dpkg-buildpackage, or whatever01:05
Kamionthis way, we know that we're getting what it says on the tin and don't have to double-check01:05
mdzKamion: we have a tool for it, and there's no particular reason why that tool needs to be run by the archive admins rather than any developer01:06
mdzit shouldn't be any more error-prone01:06
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KamionI'm not sure I agree - "ask somebody experienced to do it for you" has a much lower error rate than "download random script, upload the result"01:07
Kamionespecially if we discover bugs in that script01:07
Kamionand it seems valuable to have the manual-sync process be essentially the same as the auto-sync process01:08
mdzit would be more like "run script that you already have installed with dpkg-dev" or similar, not random01:08
mdzand the upload would be part of the script, it would be a one-step process01:08
Kamionit gives me the shivers01:08
mdzI see no reason for it to be a "run this tool to spit out something, then deal with it" process01:08
mdzwhy?01:09
mdzwhat's the failure case you have in mind?01:09
Kamionbecause syncs are an extremely cast-iron process at the moment01:09
Kamionwe are very sure indeed about their results, precisely because they're centralised01:09
KamionI don't really see the value of losing that useful guarantee that when we think we've synced to Debian, we really have01:10
Kamionotherwise we have to have something run around checking that 1.0-1 here == 1.0-1 Debian01:10
mdzRiddell: gnokii looks ancient; is it really something we want to use in kdepim?01:12
Kamionand additionally once soyuz learns to sync directly from Debian by copying publishing records around, a process involving dpkg-dev would become obsolete anyway01:12
mdzKamion: I don't see how it makes any difference in our certainty01:12
mdzthe soyuz-based process definitely would01:12
mdzbut you running the tool vs. doko running the tool doesn't01:12
Riddellmdz: I've had a couple of requests but it's not a major feature so I'll leave it out01:13
Kamionhow about me running the tool vs. inexperienced MOTU running the tool (and perhaps thinking that it's ok to stop it in the middle and fiddle)?01:13
LaserJockiwj: ping?01:14
Kamionnow, if the tool were something that checked lp auth in the relevant team and somehow asked drescher to run the sync-source backend, that would be ok; that's effectively just the existing sync process with ubuntu-archive out of the loop01:15
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Kamion(apart from *meep* security concerns with having stuff being able to request that code be run on drescher as lp_archive)01:16
Kamionbut to preserve the certainty of syncs I do think it's valuable to have the packages all stay on the archive machine rather than being shunted out to a developer machine and then shunted back again after who-knows-what-modifications01:17
Kamionnot to mention the upload time concerns for big packages, as you alluded to earlier01:17
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jdubhooooly crap, upgrade-o-rama this morning01:41
mdzKamion: the tool wouldn't let them do anything they couldn't do by hand, and in fact, it would discourage doing so through automation01:41
mdzKamion: I really don't see the concern for who-knows-what modifications; these are folks who have upload privileges01:42
mdzit's no different than apt-get source01:42
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KamionI guess I just don't see the urgent reasons why it must change01:44
mdzRiddell: oh, I hadn't even looked at the main inclusion review; I just saw it in anastacia and took a look01:47
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jdubhrm, xephyr/xnest don't do alternatives01:48
mdzRiddell: noticed it because it was pulling in an ancient postgresql01:48
Riddellmdz: I've uploaded a new kdepim without gnokii01:48
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mdzRiddell: noticed, that's where I saw your comment about main inclusion01:48
mdzwas there a report for it?01:49
mdzKamion: it's not urgent01:49
mdzbut it would reduce overhead significantly01:49
Riddellmdz: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/MainInclusionReportGnokii01:49
Riddellmdz: pitti rejected it earlier01:49
mdzoh01:50
mdzmy gut agreed with pitti then01:50
jdubKamion: do we still require dselect? :)01:51
jdubKamion: could it be removed from u-s? :)01:51
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mdzRiddell: what change has resulted in amarok-engines wanting to go into main?  seems like the sort of thing which would have been there in the first place01:59
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Kamionjdub: whatEVAH02:00
Kamion</elmo>02:00
jdubheh02:00
Kamionok, is c++ exception handling buggered in edgy?02:00
jdubKamion: i just care about the little people, y'know?02:00
Burgworkjdub, is the dcc alliance dead?02:01
Kamion$ cat t.cpp02:02
Kamion#include <iostream>02:02
Kamionint main() { try { throw "foo"; } catch (...) { std::cout << "test" << std::endl; } }02:02
Riddellmdz: looks like the Depends have changed on amarok to have amarok-engines | amarok-engine not amarok-xine | amarok-engines02:02
Kamion$ g++ -g -Wall -o t t.cpp02:02
Kamion$ ./t02:02
Kamiontest02:02
Riddellmdz: amarok-engines is all the obscure backends aren't used.  I'll fix that02:02
Kamionbut in edgy, that gives SIGSEGV02:02
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jdubBurgwork: no, not at all02:03
mdzRiddell: ok, so we don't need/want amarok-engines?02:03
jdubBurgwork: it's obviously not dead02:03
Riddellmdz: no02:03
jdubBurgwork: it's... pining02:03
mdzok02:03
KamionRiddell: have you noticed exception handling problems like the above?02:03
jdubfor the fjords.02:03
crimsunKamion: with g++ 4.1.1-8ubuntu1?02:03
mdzjdub: I was just looking at that the other day actually02:03
mdzit ought to move out to supported, under "elmo"02:03
RiddellKamion: no, but KDE uses very little exception handling02:04
jdubmdz: dselect, or dcca? :)02:04
mdzjdub: dselect02:04
mdzI don't think elmo is interested in official support for the dcca02:04
Kamioncrimsun: 4.1.1-2ubuntu502:04
jdubthough it would be fun to give it to him, and see what he does with it02:04
Kamionnewest version on powerpc at present02:05
Burgworkjdub, right. But for amusement: http://lists.dccalliance.org/pipermail/dcc-devel/2006-June/000704.html02:05
crimsunthat sounds an awful lot like the segfault on exception handling on ppc issue that slomo/tseng were seeing02:05
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jsgotangcolol02:06
jdubit's actually really lame that they're just letting it hang on for grim life like that02:07
jdubkinda like userlinux02:07
Kamioncrimsun: is that fixed in -8ubuntu1? if so I'll ignore it for now and upgrade tomorrow02:08
crimsunKamion: can't confirm, no ppc hardware02:08
tsengcrimsun: doko says he cant reproduce02:09
tsenger, @ Kamion 02:09
Kamiontseng: is there a bug number?02:09
tsenglast i heard from slomo_ gcc wasnt built there in the archive02:09
tsengKamion: yes, moment02:09
tsenghttps://launchpad.net/bugs/5246502:09
UbugtuMalone bug 52465 in gcc-4.1 "[libgcc1]  segfault on ppc when unwinding stack (c++ exceptions, mono exceptions)" [Critical,Confirmed]  02:09
Kamionyeah, just found it02:09
tsengpitti and doko spoke about it earlier today02:10
tsenghere.02:10
Kamionah, he says he can't reproduce with -8ubuntu1 so I'll try that tomorrow02:10
tsengor was it yesterday?02:10
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bddebianHowdy02:29
Riddellmdz: could you move libqt4-debug-dev to main?02:30
mdzRiddell: it should be pulled in automatically as part of Kamion's new germinate magic02:32
mdzor does something depend on it?02:33
Riddellmdz: speedcrunch build-deps on it02:33
mdzRiddell: ok, done02:35
KamionRiddell: you need to undo the KDE-specific Extra-Excludes in supported for your seeds02:35
Kamion * Extra-Exclude: libqt4-debug-dev02:36
Kamionfor one02:36
Kamionyou may need GNOME-specific Extra-Excludes, conversely - although it's not a huge deal02:36
Riddellright02:37
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Kamionthose excludes are just there because Ubuntu build-deps on stuff like doxygen and I didn't want to pull in effectively all of KDE into Ubuntu supported02:37
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bddebianHeya imbrandon02:39
imbrandonheya bddebian02:39
RiddellKamion: why does doxygen end up pulling in KDE?02:40
Keybukmdz: my concern with giving random joes the sync tool is that nothing stops them modifying the source before they upload it02:41
Keybukthey have to sign it anyway, so there's actually an incentive for them to fix whatever bug they had, and forget to do the ubuntuX on it02:42
bddebianOh, can I have it? :-)02:42
KamionRiddell: hmm, may not have been doxygen actually02:42
Keybukin fact, I suspect they have to not only sign it, but change the changelog to be able to upload it02:42
Keybuk(right now, we have a special hammer to slam them into the archive)02:43
KamionRiddell: I think it was debconf Build-Depends-Indep: libqt-perl Build-Depends: libsmokeqt-dev which comes from the kdebindings source which Build-Depends: kdelibs4-dev02:43
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Kamionthere was probably something else too, I remember kdebase-dev being extra-included02:43
bddebianDamn, who knew cutting out paper doll clothes could be so freakin' time-consuming :-(02:44
Kamionbasically I went through the before->after germinate output diff and made sure I could justify every addition to all02:45
Kamionyou might not want to go that far - I did it because I also needed to ensure that my germinate changes were correct02:45
mdzKeybuk: nothing stops them from modifying source they get from apt-get source either02:46
Kamionbut if they upload that, it'll be with a different version, generally02:46
mdzKeybuk:  the tool would be a one-shot deal; we wouldn't give them the opportunity to modify the source02:47
Kamionand if they don't upload that, who cares02:47
mdzKamion: why in one case and not the other?02:47
Kamionbecause psychologically, they're doing a sync02:47
Keybukmdz: that involves tool development time ... I don't see the point in spending the effort developing a "sync and upload" tool02:47
Kamionit would be very tempting to "just clean it up a little"02:47
mdzI don't see the difference between "they might modify without changing the version number after getting source with the sync tool and interrupting it partway through" and "they might modify without changing the version number after downloading source with apt-get source"02:48
mdzKeybuk: I'll add the debsign && dput to the end myself ;-)02:48
Keybukmdz: they can't upload the source they get with apt-get source without changing the version number02:48
mdzKeybuk: what stops them?02:48
Keybukmdz: will you also remove sync-source's dependencies on launchpad's code, and direct database access02:48
Keybukmdz: or will you give everybody a copy of launchpad and open the database to all?02:48
Keybukmdz: the fact the source already exists in the archive with that version, and the basic upload checks go "version must be greater" ?02:48
Kamionmdz: what stops them> you can't upload something with a version that's already in the archive02:48
mdzKeybuk: I thought that it was changed to use Packages files as part of the porting process02:49
Keybukmdz: HAHAHAHA02:49
mdzKamion: we're talking about source obtained from Debian02:49
Kamionno, it was ported to LP properly02:49
Kamionmdz: oh that's not apt-get source on Ubuntu :-P02:49
mdzKamion: I get source from Debian with apt-get source on Ubuntu all the time02:49
Keybukmdz: I would bet that there are maybe two people in all of Ubuntu who have Debian deb-src lines in their sources.list02:49
Keybukmdz: probably you and Kamion02:49
mdzin fact it's usually the default, because Debian is newer02:49
jdubi added one recently 8)02:49
=== bddebian has them
=== Seveas has them
Keybukand yes, nothing does stop them doing that02:50
Kamionthere was a period when people were uploading fake-syncs got that way, when the sync tool was nonfunctional02:50
bddebianother than the wrath of core-devs :-)02:50
KamionI never did get round to going through and verifying all of the syncs thus uploaded02:50
Keybukmdz: seriously, if freeing up the half an hour a day ubuntu-archive spend doing syncs is important ... please hassle the LP team to make clicky-syncs a reality02:51
mdzthe fact that the sync tool would need de-LP-ifying is a better argument02:51
Kamionwe won't get any development time from the LP team to de-LP-ify things either - whereas at present we do at least theoretically get support from them02:52
Keybukmost of my "sync time" is actually spent working out why the sync tool is refusing to do its job, and rearranging the archive appropriately02:52
mdzKeybuk: it will be a long time before launchpad does everything we want in the ideal way; that won't stop us from having interim solutions where it makes sense02:52
mdzthe current sync tool is an example of such a situation02:52
Keybukwhat's wrong with the current sync tool?02:53
Keybukyou have a serious hate for it, yet don't use it that often02:53
Keybukit works just fine02:53
mdzKeybuk: you and Kamion are blowing this way out of proportion02:55
mdzread the beginning of the conversation where I started musing02:55
bddebianI have to admit that with Keybuk AND Kamion doing syncs, it has been very expeditious02:55
mdzI'm not criticising either of you in the work you are doing on syncs02:56
Kamionactually that wasn't my concern; I had (and remember espousing) the same opinion when it was elmo doing all the syncs02:57
KeybukI didn't believe you were02:57
=== zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
KeybukI'm just raising my concern that we'll lose a lot of confidence in a sync if everybody does them by hand02:58
Keybukalso the by-hand syncs annoy the hell out of mom02:59
KeybukI had to code around that this time round02:59
Keybukbecause by-hand syncs need the top changelog entry modified to say "edgy" and an author in ubuntu-{core-,}dev02:59
Keybukwhereas those ubuntu-archive do can be injected into the queue after the signature checking, so have the same top changelog as Debian03:00
Kamionactually, that's not a real restriction; you just need to hack up a new .changes file03:01
KeybukKamion: does LP not reject them now?03:01
=== hunger [n=tobias@p54A6195F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionby-hand syncs are often like that because people don't know how to or (quite reasonably) don't want to hack the .changes03:01
KeybukI thought Soyuz got upset somewhere in the mailing when changelog and changes disagreed03:02
Kamionoh, it might do I *suppose*, katie never used to03:02
Keybuk(where reject = throw an exception)03:02
Kamionseems like an odd check to add03:02
Keybukit's not a check, but a bug, I think ... worth trying again at some point03:02
Kamionthe reason why we inject syncs into the queue after the sig check is that we didn't want to have a sync signing key on drescher03:02
Kamionkatie's syncs used to be signed03:02
Keybukthere'd definitely be a temptation to fiddle with the sync though03:03
Keybuk"here's a source package to upload" => try and build it => fix a bug => upload03:03
Keybukand then there's the packages which, when built, rewrite their source package03:03
Keybukhell, I've been tempted to fiddle with a sync before03:03
Keybukin fact, as recently as today03:03
Kamionmm, I take mdz's point that it would just upload for you, but the tool would have to have a debug mode so that you could see what it was going to do, and the best way to implement that debug mode would be to have it spit out the package so you could check it03:04
KeybukKamion: upload using which tool?  what about ftp proxies?  etc.03:04
Kamionand at that point I know I'd be seriously tempted to always use the debug mode :-)03:04
mdzwhat is there to check?  it's just downloading a source package and re-uploading it verbatim03:04
Keybuke.g. I don't use dput03:04
Keybukand where would it get the gpg configuration from?03:05
Kamionright, same reason basically that I have -uc -us set in my debuild configuration03:05
KamionI want to do the signing *after* I've diffed, tested, etc.03:06
Keybukmdz: download, unpack, generate changes file, sign changes and dsc, upload again03:06
KamionI would be scared to sign something that a random tool spat out for me and didn't let me check03:06
Keybukat each point, making sure to honour the user's apt choices, signing key choices, correct e-mail address, upload procedure, etc.03:06
mdzthere is nothing random about the tool03:06
Kamionmdz: every package I sign, I diff against the last version, and generally eyeball the whole diff03:07
mdzKeybuk: that's what debsign is for03:07
Keybukmdz: so if I gave you a tool that asked to sign something as part of its operation, you'd happily enter your GPG key? :p03:07
Kamionyou're proposing I sign something that I'm not allowed to look at03:07
Keybukmdz: debsign still needs arguments/options03:07
Kamionbecause it won't spit it out anywhere03:07
mdzKamion: I'm not; I expect you would continue to use sync-source.py03:07
=== Keybuk contemplates a quick "yes, you may have a pay rise and an extra month's holiday" tool
Kamionmdz: let's pretend ...03:07
mdzKamion: my point is that yours is not a typical use case03:08
Kamionmdz: I don't think that reasonable paranoia implies member of ubuntu-archive03:08
Keybukmdz: actually, I think it is -- we've instilled a sufficient sense of professionalism into our community that most of them will feel unhappy about signing their name to something they haven't at least _checked_03:08
=== Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzKeybuk: people are not reading the entire diff when requesting a sync03:09
mdzwe implicitly trust Debian03:09
mdzwe import things from them without looking at them all the time03:09
Keybukmdz: I do03:09
Kamionwhy not? mom gives it to them to check03:09
Keybukevery sync I've ever processed, I've read the diff03:09
Keybukand most sync requests come from people who've just been reading the mom output03:09
Kamionthey should at least be eyeballing it to ensure it contains the Ubuntu changes03:09
Keybuk(manual sync, anyway -- I don't read the "every day" ones)03:09
=== bddebian test builds all his sync requests
Hobbseemorning all03:10
bddebianHi Hobbsee03:10
mdzKamion: I often just look at the ubuntu changes and check that they're present without reading the rest of the diff03:10
mdzespecially if it's a new upstream03:10
Kamionif there's a trust path back to somebody's GPG key for a sync, I expect that they have at minimum checked that the md5sums are the same as the source package in Debian03:11
Kamionat present we know this because we trust drescher03:11
mdzapt checks that when it downloads the source03:12
KamionI don't trust developer's machines not to have a subtly trojaned sync tool; I do trust them not to be trojaned in such an AI-complete way that diff produces reassuring output even on trojaned uploads03:12
mdzKamion: dude, they already have upload privileges03:12
Kamionyes, and they'd better be using diff when they upload03:13
mdzKamion: that is no defense03:13
Kamionit raises the bar to a casual hacker a hell of a lot03:13
mdzin fact my first choice if I were writing a trojan targeting Ubuntu developers would be dupload and dput03:13
Keybukmine would be apt ;)03:14
Kamion(surely debsign)03:14
Keybukgive them the wrong source in the first place03:14
mdzdevscripts, dpkg-dev...03:14
mdzdebdiff!03:14
Kamionmy point is, if you're being halfway diligent about reading the damn changes you're uploading, it's very hard to convince you to sign the wrong thing03:14
Keybukoh, I trojan'd dpkg-dev a long time ago ;)03:14
mdzshow them a correct diff and then modify it ;-)03:14
Keybukdupload/dput wouldn't be very useful, because they get run after the signing03:15
=== asac_ [n=asac@debian/developer/asac] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionhow does the hacker know what "correct" is (if you diff the package *after* signing it too, which I randomly often do)?03:15
KamionI suppose you could stash an unmodified diff somewhere before your evil modifications to the package03:15
Kamionstarting to sound increasingly detectable at that point though03:16
mdzKamion: this is silly; if you're that concerned about whether people review the changes, then have the tool run debdiff for them03:16
mdzI think that's completely orthogonal03:16
Keybukmdz: and then, at that point, you increase the incentive for them to fix problems before they upload03:16
Keybukwhich leads us to having syncs that don't match Debian03:16
mdzthat is such an invented problem03:16
Kamionsorry to sound really anal but I don't think good checking practices are silly considering how many production machines run Ubuntu03:17
Keybukmdz: dude, _I've_ been tempted to fix syncs before that I know are going to be broken03:17
mdzthe developer would have to try very hard to browbeat the tool into letting them upload a modified package03:17
mdzit would be easier for them to use apt and dput03:17
KeybukI can't believe other developers will resist that temptation03:17
KamionI realise we trust Debian and that there's more coming through than we can in practice review, but I don't think that's a reason not to review things when we can03:17
Keybukmdz: yeah, they'd have to edit it and stick sys.exit(0) in the right place ...03:17
mdzKeybuk: which is more typing than apt-get source03:18
mdzwhich is what they'd be crippling the tool into03:18
Kamionso in practice folks will end up using apt-get source. doesn't seem like an improvement ;)03:18
mdzexcept that they won't03:18
Kamion(actually, it's apt-get source plus .changes mangling)03:18
Keybukalso I'm vaguely worried about pushing Debian deb-src onto every developer's machine ... we'll end up with all manner of random versions being uploaded by accident03:18
mdzthey'd do exactly what they're doing today, only with a command line which does the sync instead of a command line which files a bug report03:18
Keybukif "apt-get source foo" always gives our developers the Debian source, not the Ubuntu source, that's a bad thing03:19
mdzKeybuk: I wasn't suggesting modifying their sources.list at all03:19
Keybukif the tool reads Debian's Sources.gz by hand, then it _is_ doing something different for them03:19
Keybukand thus is "more than apt-get source"03:19
Kamionas bddebian says, a lot of people aren't just doing "command line which files a bug report", they're downloading the package and test-building it first03:19
Kamionwhich seems like something we want to encourage03:19
bddebianOh, you actually "heard" me? :-)03:20
mdzKamion: the part of the process where they download and test it is *exactly the same* regardless of the sync partof the process03:20
Kamiongiven that many people won't want to download the same thing twice, they'll want to pick the package out of the sync tool's output03:20
mdzit makes no difference03:20
Kamionit does, see immediately above03:20
mdzI think people are lazier than you give them credit for03:20
Kamionit makes perfect sense for people to want to go "sync, except don't upload yet while I test it"03:20
KamionI don't think that's lazy, seems sensible to me03:21
bddebianMay I make comments?03:21
mdzI re-download things all the time03:21
Kamionsaving bandwidth is often the opposite of lazy ;)03:21
Keybukbddebian: of course03:21
mdzI use squid03:21
mdzI routinely blow away the output of apt-get source and run it again to ensure that I have what I think I have03:21
mdzsquid deals03:21
bddebianI have had a couple of packages so far where the ubuntu changes could be dropped but the package still FTBFSs so I personally think a test build is required/recommended when synced a previously merged package03:22
mdzbddebian: I agree with you one hundred percent03:22
Kamionperhaps we should take a straw poll of how many developers have a local squid ... I suspect it's not huge outside perhaps core-dev03:22
mdzbddebian: but that is one hundred percent irrelevant to how syncs are processed03:22
KeybukKamion: proxies are evil03:22
mdzI expect most folks are behind a cache whether they know it or not03:23
Kamionactually that's a good point, I have a local squid but I often turn it off to avoid some problem or other and forget to turn it back on03:23
Keybukmdz: varies depending on the ISP ... certainly in the UK "proper" ISPs actually list "no transparent proxy" as a feature03:23
mdzKamion: I expect more developers have caches than diff their packages again after signing ;-)03:23
Kamionso the bits generally have to come down my ADSL which is the slow bit03:23
mdzKamion: and don't you have a local mirror anyway?03:23
bddebianmdz: My only point was, if I could just sync, maybe I would just synck, let the buildd do the work, then if it fails re-pull it and "fix" it?03:23
Kamionmdz: not of universe03:23
Kamionbut yes, I do03:24
mdzbddebian: why?03:24
Keybukmust get around to setting a local mirror up at some point03:24
bddebianI wouldn't but I am saying if I'm "lazy"03:24
Keybukthough I'd suspect I'd still use archive.ubuntu.com to ensure it's up to date :)03:24
Kamionmdz: having to ask a person to do the work means that people feel guilted into testing it first rather than afterwards :-)03:25
mdzKamion: now that I buy03:25
bddebianKamion: Exactly :-)03:25
Kamionthe effect is really noticeable03:25
Hobbseereally, why *wouldnt* they test that something is buildable and installable before they sync it?  besides laziness, of course03:25
mdz"having to request a sync from an archive admin puts the fear into them" is a stronger argument than "they might modify a local sync tool to do bad things"03:26
Kamioncompare syncs where people test-build in pbuilder and the works before they request them, to ordinary uploads where people throw six in a row at the buildd until one sticks03:26
=== Hobbsee cant imagine how people do the latter have upload rights.
=== asac_ is now known as asac
Kamionit's interesting, and sort of depends on the tools you use on a regular basis03:27
Keybukmdz: s/bad/good/03:27
Kamionfor instance I have to do a lot of weird things with translations03:28
Keybuksix in a row?  that few?03:28
Kamionso I often have locally-modified versions of the gettext and po-debconf toolset kicking around03:28
HobbseeKeybuk: you mean people really do that?  intentionally?  ouch!03:28
Kamionafter a while, you sort of get inured to having to hack things locally until they work, and you don't always necessarily get around to pushing things back to the distro03:28
Kamionanyone who disputes this gets to show off the contents of their ~/bin/ :-)03:29
jdubmoreutils!03:29
Kamion$ ls bin | wc -l03:29
Kamion12903:29
KeybukHobbsee: well, not so much intentionnally.  People do upload things they think should work, and then fix them, and then fix them harder, and then go and fix them even harder still, etc.03:29
=== gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamion"this time it'll work for sure, I see the problem, don't need to test that"03:30
KeybukKamion: amusingly, my bin contains a modified debsign, a modified dupload, a modified dch, etc. :p03:30
Kamionetc.03:30
HobbseeKeybuk: ah.  right.  which for the most part could still be avoided by testing in a pbuilder.03:30
Hobbseebleh, okay.03:30
KamionHobbsee: right, it's a trade-off between definitely spending the effort now and maybe spending the effort later03:31
KamionI can understand why it happens03:31
Keybukand then there's those people that are allergic to pbuilder03:31
HobbseeKamion: yeah, fair enough03:31
Kamionnot saying it's good practice, but I can understand it03:31
Hobbseeyeah03:31
HobbseeKeybuk: now they do need to be trained better.  actually, more people seem to be allergic to the MOM.03:31
KeybukHobbsee: I think most people didn't *know* about MoM03:32
KamionI have to say I don't really trust MOM to merge some of my weirder packages :-)03:32
jdubwell, MOM just tells you to clean your room (packages)03:32
HobbseeKeybuk: there are still a fair few people who refuse to use it03:32
Keybukwell, no, if you know a package intimately, the chances are you can do a far better job than MoM03:32
Kamionthis is no particular reflection on MOM - debian-installer is kind of a corner case for instance03:32
=== Hobbsee has seen a few weird bits from MoM, that just dont look right.
KeybukHobbsee: meh, I've just never really got pbuilder to work without feeling sick03:33
HobbseeKeybuk: really?03:33
Keybukreally03:33
HobbseeKeybuk: you're one of those chroot people, i guess (ack)03:33
Keybuknah03:33
KeybukI just build it on my usual machine03:33
Keybukand every month or so, go round and purge all the accumulated build-deps03:33
KamionHobbsee: if you usually work down near the bottom of the software stack, it's a lot easier03:34
Hobbseehehe.  does that end up working, or do you get packages thrown back?03:34
mdzthat's what I do too03:34
HobbseeKamion: that is true03:34
KamionGNOME upload du jour doesn't make a lot of difference to whether udev works03:34
KeybukHobbsee: I have an almost 100% build rate <g>03:34
HobbseeKeybuk: ah right :P03:34
KeybukKamion: though, sadly, the same cannot be said the other way around <g>03:34
mdzKeybuk: we should collect stats on that03:34
Keybukmdz: LP does03:34
mdzKeybuk: really? where?03:34
mdzI mean actually cook them and display them03:34
mdzLP has the data03:34
Keybukit doesn't graph them03:34
Keybukthey're supposed to affect your karma though03:35
Hobbseemdz: in a locked filing cabinet in the disused lavitory with a big sign on it sayign "beware of the leoppard"  :P03:35
Hobbseeso you could get reverse karma that way, hmmm...03:35
mdzKeybuk: no need for a graph; stats for the current release would be good enough03:35
KamionKeybuk: I was particularly impressed to see the proposal in the soyuz-karma spec that archive admins should get lots of karma for processing NEW ;-)03:35
=== theCore [n=alex@modemcable240.218-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzI have no idea where my karma comes from03:36
mdzI don't do that much in LP03:36
Kamionspec tracking is grossly weighted upwards03:36
Kamionindeed, /people/mdz/+karma says you have 143545 points from spec tracking03:37
Kamionit's probably nearly all from the pre-UDS spec juggling03:38
KeybukKamion: also, more pointedly, it's not really possible to test sysvinit changes in a chroot03:39
=== bddebian doesn't use MoM
Keybukthat's the main thing that annoyed me about pbuilder, actually03:41
Keybukit was harder than I'd prefer to keep the chroot around so you can actually run what you just built03:41
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Kamionthere's an obvious difference between core-dev and dev on this; if a core-dev runs edgy, and their system blows up, chances are they can probably fix it and get the fix in the archive post-haste, unless it's something requiring really specialist knowledge like the kernel03:41
Keybukand it didn't do the most obvious test of "build a new version while the old version is already installed" which an amazing number of source packages used to (and probably still do) fail on03:41
Kamionthe same is not necessarily true (and shouldn't have to be true) of developers working in more specialised less core areas03:42
mdzrodarvus: xserver-xorg-input-elographics is in main but not depended upon by anything or seeded03:43
mdzKamion: interesting, I didn't know about /+karma03:43
=== bddebian 's karma is falling :-(
mdzthough it's apparently important enough to be the very first thing in the navigation portlet03:44
zulmeh...karma..03:44
KeybukKamion: the shiniest part of LP always tends to give the most karma points03:44
=== ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzbut not important enough for the karma display to have a hyperlink03:44
Keybukusually whichever bit Mark touched last03:44
zulit would be nice if uploads were counted03:44
Keybukthen an LP dev goes around and decreases it all03:44
mdzthey aren't?03:45
mdzhmm, apparently not03:45
zulnope03:46
Keybuksoyuz doesn't do karma, there's a spec for it03:46
bddebianzul: Aye03:46
=== LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamion"soyuz-karma" in fact03:49
KeybukKamion: at least it's not "edward"03:50
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Keybuk\o/  25 merges left, and over 24 hours to do them in04:00
HobbseeKeybuk: get going then :P04:01
=== RadiantFire [n=ryan@c-69-180-43-27.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Keybuktomorrow I have dhcdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdb and n-m04:01
Hobbseeah, n-m should be fun04:01
KeybukHobbsee: meh, not especially;  today I did courier, that was fun04:02
Kamiontomorrow I have more debian-installer and more gparted04:02
Keybukin a soul-destroying kind of way04:02
Hobbseehehe04:02
jdubKeybuk: courier -> universe! yay!04:02
Kamionboth of which are soul-eating monsters although at least I have debian-installer done bar the shouting04:02
KeybukI suspect I'll need to beat BenC up a little more to do kernel-wedge and kernel-package04:02
zulKeybuk: yeah you might04:03
Kamionelmo: at this point it would be really convenient to have some way to get packages from the master archive as opposed to ftp.acc.umu.se :-/04:04
BenCKeybuk: almost ready to upload both04:04
=== BenC has made a day of kernel-*
KeybukBenC: oh, well done that man04:04
bddebianKeybuk: Anything I can help with?04:05
Kamionmight get installation-guide done tomorrow if I'm very lucky04:05
Keybukbddebian: I'm so sorely tempted to say "ia32-libs" ... but I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy04:05
Kamionhopefully Mithrandir will get xfonts-utils done tomorrow04:06
Keybukthere's about a dozen X things outstanding still04:06
bddebianI started to do some X stuff but by the time I woke up when you all woke up, they were uploaded :-(04:07
KamionKeybuk: how come xfonts-utils isn't in main-manual.html?04:07
bddebians/all woke up/all were awake/04:08
bddebianWell my offer stands if I can do anything for anyone04:08
KamionKeybuk: maybe a public page with the blacklisted packages would be good ...04:10
KeybukKamion: because it's not a source package?04:10
KeybukKamion: mom doesn't have a blacklist04:10
KamionKeybuk: it is in Debian04:10
Keybukthough I agree the sync blacklist should be public, though I've yet to get that pushed further (I put it in bzr)04:11
KeybukKamion: right ... but not in Ubuntu04:11
Kamionyeah, a list of those cases would be good04:11
Keybukso it's not something MoM can even see04:11
Kamionthe sync blacklist is public04:11
Keybukit is now?04:11
KamionI did that in Paris04:11
Kamionhttp://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/sync-blacklist.txt04:11
Keybukoh, cool04:11
KeybukI'll have to remember to be not rude in that file now :p04:12
KamionI de-rude-d the existing contents before publishing :-)04:12
KeybukKamion: I don't know how we'd define those cases ... MoM only deals with source packages04:12
Kamionit has the list of source packages in Debian though, doesn't it?04:12
Keybukaww, I'm sure Marco and Branden wouldn't have minded <g>04:13
KeybukKamion: yes04:13
Keybukbut I'm not sure how that helps?04:13
Keybukthose generally need syncs, not merges04:13
Kamionactually there are sort of two cases - "never sync ever again" and "don't autosync just yet"04:13
Kamionxfonts-utils is an example of the latter, and needs a merge04:13
Keybukright, those are the things at the top of the sync-blacklist04:13
Kamionyeah04:13
Keybukthe very top is "keybuk hasn't yet drunk enough coffee to understand these"04:14
Kamion(Debian - Ubuntu) - "never sync ever again" is approximately what we want04:14
Keybukthe middle is "other people are dealing with them"04:14
Keybukand the bottom is "never sync" :p04:14
bddebianhehe04:14
Keybukif we split sync-blacklist into a temporary and permanent blacklist04:15
Keybukthen we could easily generate the list on drescher04:15
=== bmonty is now known as bmonty_away
Kamionanyway, why am I still awake ... night all04:15
Keybukit's output of "new-source"04:15
bddebiangnight Kamion04:15
Hobbseenight Kamion 04:16
Keybukheh, indeed, night all also04:16
bddebianBums ;-P  Gnight Keybuk04:16
bddebianfsck'n a skippy, maxima built04:17
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sbalneavEvening all04:34
Hobbseehi sbalneav 04:34
sbalneavHave some unsigned packages made it into the dapper archive, or is ca.archive.ubuntu.com having problems?04:35
bddebianIs mesa on the blacklist?04:38
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bddebianOh, NM, it's on the main merges page04:40
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bluefoxicymeh.  I wish I knew more about apt internals.06:31
bluefoxicya mirror system like gentoo had would be great06:31
=== bluefoxicy idly puts massive load on one server with constant updating
bddebianreprepro06:32
bddebianrsync06:32
bluefoxicybddebian: ?06:32
bddebianapt-cache show reprepro06:32
bluefoxicybddebian:  no not emerge sync; I mean how it would use mirror://gentoo which would use a mirror list, which you updated with a script that pinged every known mirror and picked the 3-5 closest ones, then it'd round robin through those to distribute load... looking at reprepo06:33
bddebianAhh06:33
bluefoxicyreprepro looks nice, I was thinking about how to get a local repository for a network (i.e. enterprise network, 1 gazillion machines, do you want to hear a story about an idiot that scheduled an ENTIRE school district to update to WinXP SP2 directly from windowsupdate or can you guess what happened?)06:35
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bluefoxicybut I'm currently more concerned that practically everyone who installs Ubuntu is pointing at us.archive.ubuntu.com06:35
bddebianOh I can guess, I maintain Windows servers at work06:35
bluefoxicyyes see smart people sync windowsupdate down to some kind of MFPSomething server I can't remember what it's called and then push patches that way ;)06:36
bluefoxicybecause 3 days without internet sucks.06:36
bddebianI think it's SPS now but it keeps changing06:36
bluefoxicybddebian:  What kind of load DOES us.archive.ubuntu.com experience anyway?06:36
bluefoxicymore importantly06:36
bluefoxicywhat happens if tomorrow we have 90% market share and MS is dead?06:37
bluefoxicyupdate-manager runs apt-get update every day06:37
bluefoxicyit downloads but doesn't install packages in the background, security packages can be auto-installed........06:37
sharmswell us.archive.ubuntu.com isn't just one server right06:37
sharmsit should be multiple servers using round-robin dns?06:38
bluefoxicysharms:  us. seems to imply a specific subset of servers06:38
bluefoxicybut yes it should, lemme ping it a bunch of times.06:38
bluefoxicyyes it is.06:38
sharmsjust because it is a subset of servers doesn't mean there are not a bunch of them :)06:38
sharmsand you have to remember dns caching will prevent you from hitting all of them via ping06:39
bluefoxicyyeah, aren't there also canadian and europe and korean servers though?06:39
elmosigh06:39
bluefoxicyPING us.archive.ubuntu.com (82.211.81.182) PING us.archive.ubuntu.com (82.211.81.151) 06:39
elmo$cc.archive.ubuntu.com => $cc == country code06:40
elmoso not "practically everyone" who installs ubuntu will get us.archive.ubuntu.com, just people with a US locale06:40
bluefoxicyhmm.  It automatically picks based on locale?06:40
elmoand the load on those servers is fine.  and we're not going to get a 90% market share tomorrow06:40
bluefoxicyI only speak english so I never tried chinese ;)06:40
elmoyou'd get a better response from people if you didn't invent insane and unrealistic hypotheticals like that06:40
sharmsactually he does have a point though06:40
jsgotangcotry it out06:40
bluefoxicyelmo:  I'm a security guy, I'm thinking in terms of business continuity now or something.06:41
sharmssecurity isn't regionally set is it elmo?06:41
elmosecurity isn't, no06:41
sharmsright06:41
elmoand the load on that server isn't a problem either06:41
bluefoxicyno, but the "What do we do if load spikes by 300 times" scenario is a business continuity thing.06:41
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sharmselmo: it was today for almost an hour06:41
sharmsor atleast the dns06:41
sharmsand we are at .00001% marketshare06:41
bluefoxicyin security classes they teach you about what you need to do to make sure you can keep a business going if the building it's in burns down.06:41
elmosharms: no, it wasn't06:41
sharmselmo: it was functional and online all day today?06:42
elmoI took it offline for a very deliberate reason, it wasn't down due to load06:42
elmoso please, stop with the FUD already06:42
sharmsdone :)06:42
bluefoxicysharms, elmo:  That brings me to an odd question.  why is it on some days I can get 100K/s from there and on others I get like 800k/s  o_O06:42
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bluefoxicyit's not my end, when my net seems slow I try mozilla, sourceforge, and ubuntu CD image download mirrors to see if I can get over 300k/s from any of them06:44
bluefoxicyI'd assumed it was load06:44
bluefoxicyeh.  I guess that's a mystery that'll never be solved.06:45
bddebianI'd blame elmo if I were you :-)06:52
bddebianAnd with that, I will say adeu.  Gnight folks06:52
sharmssame here, take it easy06:53
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bluefoxicydoes anyone on edgy know if man 2 open is correct?08:08
bluefoxicy       int open(const char *pathname, int flags);08:09
bluefoxicy       int open(const char *pathname, int flags, mode_t mode);08:09
bluefoxicythis part inparticular.08:09
bluefoxicylooks like it is.  Thought that was a C++ thing.08:15
fabbioneit is correct.08:19
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dholbachgood morning08:21
siretartRiddell: thanks for handling xine!08:23
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fabbionesiretart, slomo_ : ping?08:25
siretartfabbione: yes?08:25
fabbionesiretart: is it just me or some audio codecs in mplayer are bad?08:26
siretartfabbione: which ones? I didn't notice regressions yet08:26
fabbionei need to check..08:26
fabbioneone sec08:26
fabbioneoh meh.. go find the url again..08:28
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fabbionesiretart:08:29
fabbioneOpening audio decoder: [mp3lib]  MPEG layer-2, layer-308:30
fabbioneAUDIO: 22050 Hz, 2 ch, s16le, 40.0 kbit/5.67% (ratio: 5000->88200)08:30
fabbioneSelected audio codec: [mp3]  afm: mp3lib (mp3lib MPEG layer-2, layer-3)08:30
fabbione'08:30
fabbionesiretart: getting a sample for you08:31
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fabbionesiretart: see /msg08:34
dholbachcan somebody please promote libnet-dbus-perl to main?08:36
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siretartdl'ding..08:49
siretartfabbione: I don't have problems playing that file08:50
fabbionei do08:50
siretartI'm on dapper, but I'm using mplayer_0.99+1.0pre8-0ubuntu0, which is a local prerelease of whats in edgy08:50
fabbionesiretart: i assume you are on latest edgy08:50
fabbionenah08:50
fabbioneit could be anything else like a shared lib08:50
siretartI prepared the ubuntu1 upload, there are no code changes to ubuntu108:51
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siretartthats not unlikely, that some linked lib does foo08:51
siretartMPEG-PS file format detected.08:51
siretartVIDEO:  MPEG1  176x112  (aspect 12)  29.970 fps  200.0 kbps (25.0 kbyte/s)08:51
siretarthm. nothing spectacular though..08:51
siretartOpening video decoder: [libmpeg2]  MPEG 1/2 Video decoder libmpeg2-v0.4.0b08:52
siretartSelected video codec: [mpeg12]  vfm: libmpeg2 (MPEG-1 or 2 (libmpeg2))08:52
fabbionelooks about the same here08:52
siretartdoesn't mplayer use an internal libmpeg2?08:52
fabbioneyou are the maintainer and should know..08:52
fabbioneit's only the audio that's crippled08:53
fabbionethe video is good08:53
fabbioneit's like a lot of static noise08:53
siretartaha?08:53
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siretartI also maintain xine, which I concentrated the last days more08:53
siretartand xine does have an internal copy.08:53
siretartbut I keep on mixing the 2, they are both a mess to maintain :/08:54
siretartaudio codec is Selected audio codec: [mp3]  afm: mp3lib (mp3lib MPEG layer-2, layer-3)08:54
fabbionesiretart: audio with xine is good08:54
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siretartfabbione: you mean, you get sound, but it is only a lot of noise?08:56
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fabbionesiretart: video 100% good08:57
fabbioneaudio in xine is good08:57
fabbioneaudio in mplayer a lot of noise08:57
fabbioneso yes i get audio but it's bad08:57
siretartfabbione: can you perhaps try an other audio backend, like, say, oss instead of alsa and vice versa?09:01
fabbionesiretart: i did try to use -ao oss or -ao alsa or -ao esd09:02
fabbioneno changes09:02
siretartinteresting09:02
siretartthe audio stream seem to me to be plain mp309:03
siretartyou get this as well?09:03
siretartSelected audio codec: [mp3]  afm: mp3lib (mp3lib MPEG layer-2, layer-3)09:03
siretartso it does use the same codec for you?09:03
fabbioneSelected audio codec: [mp3]  afm: mp3lib (mp3lib MPEG layer-2, layer-3)09:03
fabbioneyeps09:03
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jdubis there any info on building custom kernels pre-edgy? (i konw it's scary and bad, but i'd like an answer for people who demand it)09:14
Burgundaviajdub: there might be something in the help wiki09:14
siretartfabbione: do you have a chance to try on another machine? I suspect problems in your sound card driver09:14
fabbionesiretart: it did work with the last kernel and stuff right before the last update of mplayer09:15
=== jdub growls about having to search in multiple places
fabbionethat means the sound card driver is good09:15
Burgundaviajdub: all of that should now be on the help wiki09:15
jdubBurgundavia: 'that' -> dude, there is mountains of stuff on the real wiki09:16
siretartfabbione: so downgrading to dapper's mplayer does fix things for you?09:16
Burgundaviajdub: yes, but if it was documentation, it should have moved09:16
Burgundaviajdub: if it didn't, please tell us09:16
jdubBurgundavia: what *isn't* documentation on the real wiki?09:16
jdubedgy stuff: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelCustomBuild09:17
fabbionesiretart: i didn't check that yet. I did watch movies 2 days ago or so.. it was good... yesterday upgrade no good.. so i assume a downgrade will do.09:17
fabbionesiretart: gimme 2 minutes to try it09:17
jdubBurgundavia: two wikis is a terrible hassle09:17
Burgundaviajdub: so was one wiki09:17
sivangmorning09:17
jdubBurgundavia: two is worse09:17
mdkejdub: it's a bit late for this. You had 9 months to comment on the spec for splitting them.09:17
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jdubmdke: it's not really something for me to contribute to directly, but now that it's happened (and given my comments about exactly this in the distant past), i'm seeing problems09:18
mdkejdub: it's 3 wikis we have09:19
mdkedon't forget www.ubuntu.com09:19
mdkeif you look at them as websites with different functions, it works.09:20
Burgundaviamdke: that is not really a wiki, perse09:20
jsgotangcoits not like the public has access to the website09:20
jdubmdke: i don't regard that as a wiki (but the content seepage between all three (plus docs.u.c) isn't helpful09:20
mdkemy point is not to get hung up on the "wiki" thing09:20
jdubi'm not hung up on the wiki thing09:20
mdkeyou need to see that there is a documentation website, and it is separate from the community development place for a good reason09:20
jdubi wish i could see it that way09:21
=== mdke shrugs
mdkeIt's really working well, I think09:21
fabbionesiretart: yes, downgrading works fine09:21
jdubbut you've got plenty of inertia to battle09:21
Burgundaviajdub: I notice since the move we have been getting lots of new people helping out09:22
jduband wuc is easier to contribute to09:22
mdkeno09:22
mdkepeople hated contributing to the old wiki, simply because of the confusion and the fact it was terrible to get help on09:22
jdubBurgundavia: i am not convinced that could not have been done with a clear editorial team on wuc (who could provide some actual content management)09:22
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Burgundaviajdub: we were drowning in non-doc stuff09:23
siretartfabbione: hm. damn. can you perhaps file a bug, mentioning the codec in question and you audio hardware and driver?09:23
siretartfabbione: I need to find some hours to trace the code changes since the last release (and there are a lot of changes!!)09:23
jdubmdke: it has been split now, but i do think that the same goals could have been achieved by managing the existing wiki09:23
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mdkejdub: they couldn't.09:24
jdubmdke: huc seems a bit like picking up the shovel and bucket and making a new sand castle :-)09:24
jdubmdke: it seems we strongly disagree on that point, then ;-)09:24
mdkedunno about strongly09:24
mdkeit's a documentation website. All documentation is now in the same place, hardly a new sand castle09:25
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mdkereinforcing the old one, more like09:25
jdubmdke: what happens if i link JeffWaugh on huc?09:25
pittiGood morning09:26
Burgundaviajdub: that is an issue we have not yet resolved, but can be fairly easily (we can link names to the old wiki)09:26
mdkejdub: it links to JeffWaugh09:26
jdub(categories are a good way to layer structure on top of an existing moin wiki - you can limit searches to them, etc.)09:27
jdubmdke: but JeffWaugh doesn't live in that sand castle ;)09:27
mdketrue09:27
mdkeis it likely that your name will be used in documentation?09:27
jdubi hope so09:27
jsgotangcolol09:27
jdubi would like to be famous some day09:27
Burgundaviajdub: but then what do you have default search as? what about the in-svn documentation?09:27
fabbionesiretart: meh i just gave you all the info, but it's not a hw/kernel issue09:27
mdkejdub: use "wiki:Ubuntu/JeffWaugh"09:28
jdubmdke: hopefully you get my point :)09:28
Burgundaviajdub: moving the help wiki was not really like creating a new site, it was merely moving the help wiki stuff to the same place that the in-svn stuff was09:28
mdkeit's a non-point, for me09:28
Burgundavialike mdke, reinforcing, not creating09:28
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jdubBurgundavia: heh, "not really like creating a new site", although you happened to be... creating... a... new... site...? :)09:28
mdkejdub: nope, it was there already09:28
Burgundaviaindeed09:29
mdkeit had the docs from the distro on it09:29
mdkenow it has all docs09:29
jdubit was there already, but it wasn't a separate wiki09:29
mdkehere you go again with the wiki thing09:30
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jdubconsidering that it is a wiki, i don't think that's an obscene idea to muse upon :)09:30
Burgundaviajdub: like the main ubuntu webpage, the help website is a help website, helped along by the wiki, rather than a wiki first09:31
jdubBurgundavia: i understand the theory09:31
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fabbionesiretart: 52279 for you09:32
siretartUbugtu: bug #5227909:34
UbugtuMalone bug 52279 in gnome-games "AisleRiot crash by select other game variants" [Unknown,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5227909:34
fabbioneehm09:34
fabbione5272909:34
siretartUbugtu: bug #5272909:35
UbugtuMalone bug 52729 in mplayer "[EDGY]  Regression: broken audio playing certain movies" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5272909:35
fabbionesiretart: if you need more speak now :)09:35
siretartfabbione: may I attach the file you gave me?09:36
fabbionesiretart: you should check the copyright before you do so09:36
fabbionesiretart: i don't remmeber the origin of it09:36
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fabbioneit was on some funny web site09:36
fabbionesiretart: people can ask me for the file09:37
fabbioneit's not an issue09:37
siretartah ok09:37
siretartI'm checking on my edgy laptop09:38
fabbioneedgy with dapper mplayer is good09:38
chmjelmo: ping 09:38
fabbionei wonder if it might be due to miscompilation09:38
siretartfabbione: I'm trying now with 0.99+1.0pre8-ubuntu3 on recent edgy09:39
siretartfabbione: sound driver: i810 internal on thinkpad r50e, no problems :(09:39
fabbioneit happens reliably here and i can ensure you it's not a kernel issue09:41
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fabbioneotherwise the dapper version wouldn't work at all09:41
siretartwhat sound hardware do you use?09:42
siretartfabbione: and can you perhaps check/compare your /etc/mplayer/* against the versions in the package?09:42
siretartI suspect codecs.conf09:43
fabbionei didn't customize it09:43
fabbioneSetting up mplayer (0.99+1.0pre7try2+cvs20060117-0ubuntu8) ...09:43
fabbioneInstalling new version of config file /etc/mplayer/mplayer.conf ...09:43
fabbioneInstalling new version of config file /etc/mplayer/codecs.conf ...09:43
fabbioneInstalling new version of config file /etc/mplayer/input.conf ...09:43
fabbioneInstalling new version of config file /etc/mplayer/menu.conf ...09:43
fabbionedowngrading/upgrading09:43
fabbioneso i am using the defaults09:43
siretart66d11846722498ed54bf5ddc766a95ab  /etc/mplayer/codecs.conf09:44
siretart32924d4067d6307a107393834015fa9a  /etc/mplayer/input.conf09:44
siretartmd5sums on my machine.. for you as well?09:44
fabbionenew or old ones?09:45
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siretartthe new ones09:48
pittislomo_: can you please check the new hal revision into bzr?09:49
fabbione66d11846722498ed54bf5ddc766a95ab  codecs.conf09:52
fabbione32924d4067d6307a107393834015fa9a  input.conf09:52
fabbioneyeah they match09:52
bluefoxicyhi pitti09:53
pittihi bluefoxicy 09:53
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bluefoxicypitti: mail me a gcc hacker09:57
pittibluefoxicy: I always have difficulties squeezing them through the ethernet cable09:58
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bluefoxicypitti:  ;)09:59
bluefoxicypitti:  Did you see my post on -devel?09:59
pittibluefoxicy: yes, I saw it, but I didn't have time yet to answer09:59
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pittiKamion: I want to fix some stuff in anastacia (just did redland-bindings for php4 and will do backuppc for wwwconfig-common), but there are some things I don't understand10:03
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pittiKamion: do you have an idea why python-jabber wants python2.2?10:04
slomo_fabbione: pong?10:04
slomo_pitti: sure, one moment... sorry10:04
siretartslomo_: see bug #5272910:04
UbugtuMalone bug 52729 in mplayer "[EDGY]  Regression: broken audio playing certain movies" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/5272910:04
dholbachcan somebody please promote libnet-dbus-perl to main? :)10:06
pittidholbach: not without ssh logins10:06
dholbachpitti: urg, true10:06
pittidarn, I can't even upload10:07
mdzpitti: maybe because of this10:07
mdzpyversions: missing XS-Python-Version in control file, fall back to debian/pyversions10:07
mdzpyversions: missing debian/pyversions file, fall back to supported versions10:07
pittioh, hi mdz10:07
pittimdz: hm, I'd expect it to fall back to 2.4.., I'll check that10:07
mdzmy @python_allversions = ('1.5','2.1','2.2','2.3','2.4','2.5');10:08
pittimdz: it builds fine here locally, and uses 2.410:08
mdzpitti: my local build gets the 2.2 dependency from python:Depends10:08
pittiah, right10:09
=== pitti fixes
mdzpitti: what's wrong with ssh logins?10:09
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mdzdholbach: I'll promote libnet-dbus-perl once cron.daily finishes10:10
fabbionemdz: known issue at the DC10:10
dholbachmdz: "chinstrap (-> all DC) logins down - known problem, no ETA currently"10:10
dholbachmdz: merci beaucoup10:10
siretartslomo_: fabbione: i just upgraded my edgy laptop, still no problems. I'm off for uni now, cu later!10:11
fabbionesiretart: later10:11
mdzdholbach: I have a shell open which seems to work fine; I'll try to remember not to logout ;-)10:11
dholbachmdz: hehe :)10:12
slomo_siretart: everything i tested with the new mplayer worked fine here too10:12
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fabbioneslomo_: do you want the file i have issues with?10:13
slomo_fabbione: sure10:13
crimsunfabbione: which arch?10:13
fabbionecrimsun: i38610:13
crimsunk10:13
mdzpitti,dholbach: has anyone looked at libcairo-perl yet (MIR)?10:14
=== pitti didn't
fabbioneslomo_: /msg10:14
=== dholbach neither
slomo_fabbione: thanks10:15
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fabbioneslomo_: np10:15
slomo_fabbione: woohoo... sounds nice ;) weird...10:16
slomo_and works fine in totem... hm10:16
fabbioneit works in xine too10:16
fabbioneand it works with dapper mplayer10:16
fabbioneit doesn't work with edgy mplayer10:16
fabbioneso that's why i am pretty sure it's mplayer regression10:17
slomo_ok, noted on my todo list...10:18
crimsunslomo_: http://svn.mplayerhq.hu/mplayer/trunk/mp3lib/dct64_3dnow.c?r1=18837&r2=1894610:20
slomo_crimsun: good catch :) thanks, i'll test it10:21
fabbionecrimsun: to add or to revert?10:21
slomo_add10:21
fabbionesladen: i can test it locally...10:22
fabbioneslomo_: ^^10:22
slomo_fabbione: ok, feel free to upload mplayer with that patch if it works :)10:22
pittidoko: bah, I have no idea how to teach jabber.py to not create a dependency on python2.2; do you have any idea? I added debian/pyversions and played with the build deps, but no luck10:22
fabbioneslomo_: no :) i will tell you if it works..10:22
crimsunslomo_: fabbione: I haven't eyeballed the diff history further back, so it may require additional the mmx changes10:22
crimsunthe additional ^10:23
fabbioneslomo_: i am not going to adopt mplayer ;)10:23
fabbionecrimsun: ok thanks don't worry :)10:23
fabbionecrimsun: 3d now?10:24
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fabbionemight be10:24
fabbionethis is an amd64 cpu running i38610:25
pittidoko: ah, got it; nevermind10:25
pittidoko:  one shipped example used #!/usr/bin/python2.210:25
fabbioneslomo_: you need to get a new cvs snapshot probably.. that patch doesn't apply10:26
mdzpitti: aha10:28
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pittimdz: I'll upload a fix as soon as ssh works again and send the patch to debian bug 377813 10:29
UbugtuDebian bug 377813 in python-jabber "Subject: Uninstallable due to unmet dep on python2.2" [Serious,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/37781310:29
mdzpitti: you shouldn't need ssh to upload it10:29
pittimdz: I do, I can't ftp from here10:29
mdzpitti: yuck, why not?10:29
pittimdz: so my upload script scp's to chinstap and calls ssh dput10:29
pittimdz: braindead configuration of my ISP10:29
pittimdz: bah, I'll just do a Debian NMU10:30
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\shmoins10:32
mdzdo we really want cyrus21 in the server seed?10:34
fabbionemdz: wasn't common agreement to kill it?10:35
seb128mdz: "gnome-applets is next uploaded and rebuilt" ?10:35
pittimdz: if we want cyrus, then 2.210:35
seb128mdz: why "new uploaded"?10:35
pitti(I'd say)10:35
mdzdunno about that, but it is an old version10:35
seb128s#new#next10:35
mdzseb128: "new uploaded"?10:35
ogradholbach, g-p-m will still take a while ... the codebase for Kinnison's most important patches that enable suspend doesnt exist anymore and i found out why the icons didnt work, they are all renamed and 24x24 doesnt exist anymore as size (and there are twice as much icons now)10:36
fabbionemdz: kill it, kill it!10:36
mdzI thought we already had a cyrus imapd in main10:36
pittimdz: but as long as we don't receive requests to include it, we can maybe drop it alltogether10:36
pittimdz: we kicked it out of dapper10:36
seb128mdz: ups, I said nothing, it got stucked because of the gnome-python-desktop borkage and I forgot to upload it then ...10:36
seb128mdz: thank you for the reminder, fixing that now ;)10:36
dholbachogra: then please drop the icon patch - i'm going to fix it up once it's in the archive - that's nothing to be blocked on10:36
mdzpitti: I don't see it in breezy though10:37
pitticyrus21-imapd | 2.1.18-1ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com breezy/main Sources10:37
mdznever mind,there it is10:37
mdzheh10:37
ogradholbach, i know, i didnt say i was blocked :) but there is a lot of icon work on the hirizon for you 10:37
mdzdholbach: promoted libnet-dbus-perl and friends just in time10:37
pittimdz: oh, the binary is in universe10:37
ogra*horizon10:37
dholbachmdz: rock on!10:37
mdzdholbach: Connection to chinstrap.ubuntu.com closed by remote host.10:37
dholbachurg :(10:37
dholbachogra: i can't wait for it...10:38
dholbach:-)10:38
mdzpitti: ok, I've committed it to my local seeds10:38
ograhaha10:38
mdzoh, I should be able to still ssh to the supermirror probably10:38
pittimdz: jabber.py NMUed to Debian, so we'll get it this evening10:38
pittidoko, Kamion: ^ so please don't bother fixing it in Edgy10:39
pittioh, tomorrow evening rather10:39
Kamionyou might need to request a special sync for that, UVF being tomorrow and all10:39
pittioh, true10:39
pittiKamion: ok, I'll ask Keybuk to sync from incoming then10:40
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fabbionewhat's the official time for UVF to start?10:40
mdzwhen we sleep10:41
fabbionethat means never...10:41
ograheh10:41
pittifabbione: if 'we' == mdz and Europe :)10:41
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pittimdz: I'm confused why libxmlsec1-gnutls wants to pull in gnutls11 - the package is in universe and depends on libgnutls1310:44
mdzpitti: I uploaded a fix10:45
mdzprobably anastacia is out of date10:45
pittiah10:45
pittiok, I uploaded redland-bindings10:45
pittithat should solve apache and php410:46
pittimdz: dictionaries-common b-deps on links, but that's provided by elinks; the buildds manage to resolve that10:47
pittimdz: nevertheless, I'll upload a fix for that, we modified the package anyway10:47
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Kamioninfinity: when you're bringing up hppa, could you make sure to build newt before cdebconf? thanks10:58
fabbionebootstrapping hppa is going to be real fun11:04
fabbioneglibc/kernel/kernel-headers/gcc in an endless loop for ssp11:04
fabbioneand then all the rest of the world11:04
ograogra@edubuntu:/mnt/devel/seeds$ bzr checkout sftp://ogra@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.edgy11:06
ograssh: connect to host bazaar.launchpad.net port 22: Connection refused11:06
ogrameh, LP doesnt like me today :(11:06
pittiogra: ssh to chinstrap is broken11:11
ograooh11:11
ograbut that must have happened between tzhe two checkouts11:12
ograi checked out the edubuntu seeds a second before i first tried the ubuntu ones11:12
Kamionssh to bazaar.launchpad.net doesn't normally go through chinstrap, so ...11:13
ograah, k, hmm ...11:14
elmoit's been taken down too, I'm working on it11:14
=== ogra leaves the seeds alone then and goes back into power manager hell
Hobbseeogra: it's not being kind?  doesnt leave me much hope for the kde side then...11:17
elmoogra: should work now then11:17
elmos/then//11:17
ograHobbsee, the merge is evil11:17
Hobbseeogra: :(11:18
ograelmo, not yet11:18
elmoogra: what error?11:18
ograelmo, ssh: connect to host bazaar.launchpad.net port 22: Connection refused11:18
elmooh, blah11:18
ogra(with a paramiko backtrace afterwards indeed)11:19
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ograHobbsee, three way megre of the special kind ... we have an old package, debian has one and the upstream source changed completely (not to mention our package has 13 patches included that need merging)11:20
Hobbseeogra: *ouch*11:20
Hobbseethat's nasty11:20
ograi could drop 4 of them though and have only 3 left ... but these three are huge and there is no upstream code anymore for them to apply to11:21
ograsadly they are the ones that make everything work :)11:21
sivanganybody else lost some panel functionality and applets after dist-upgrading today?11:22
=== sivang tries to identify if it's local to his machine
Zdrasivang: me too11:24
sivangZdra: thanks, /me goes to see if I can fix it11:24
Zdra:)11:25
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janimodholbach: hello, FYI latest xfce has ctrl-esc for menu that you missed 11:36
dholbachjanimo: ahhhh nice11:37
dholbachhey janimo - good to see you back :)11:37
sivanghey janimo 11:37
pittihi janimo, how's it going?11:37
janimopitti, sivang hi guys11:37
dholbachjanimo: i'm used to use alt-f1, but ctrl-esc is better than nothing ;-p11:37
janimoI am egtting busy agains since xfce just released a new beta11:37
janimodholbach: it is settable :)11:37
iwjLaserJock: pong11:37
dholbachdoko: if you have no objections, I'm going to drop CxxLibraryList, FinishedUniverseLibraries ,CxxLibraryResync, UniverseCxxTransition?11:37
dholbachdoko: ... from the wiki11:38
dokodholbach: fine11:38
dholbachdoko: thanks11:38
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Gloubiboulgajanimo, hi, I have some issues with the mcs manager on edgy11:41
crimsunjanimo: are we proceeding with xfmedia>gxine? If so I'll prioritise the merge today for UVF.11:41
dholbachRiddell: safe to drop KubuntuCXXtransition from the wiki?11:42
Gloubiboulgajanimo, it can't load the modules which hasn't been built against the last mcs version11:42
janimocrimsun: I agree with going gxine11:42
janimoGloubiboulga: I'll have a look, do you have the latest mcs-manager and mcs-plugins?11:42
janimoGloubiboulga: I remember upstream did that to prevent duplicates showing up11:43
Gloubiboulgajanimo, yes, updated a few hours ago. A rebuild fixes everything (I've rebuilt exo, orage, xfce4-session, xfdesktop and xfwm4)11:43
janimolatest session has not yet been uploaded as we have a big HAL patch11:44
janimothe rest I'll do uploads again, thanks for noticing11:44
janimodue to broken debuild I worked from dapper and only now started testing the built stuff in edgy11:44
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seb128janimo: are you doing syncs with Debian for xfce?11:47
Mithrandiris merges.ubuntu.com down?11:47
janimoseb128: nope11:47
seb128janimo: why not? 11:47
seb128Mithrandir: connection refused11:47
janimoseb128: several reasons11:48
seb128janimo: everybody else is doing his merges and a stack of xfce are listed on the merge list for main11:48
janimoseb128: our packages are diverged11:48
seb128janimo: and they have to be done for tomorrow11:48
janimoseb128: a stack? (you mean 3 packages)?11:48
pittiMithrandir: doesn't work for me either11:48
seb128janimo: dunno, the list is down atm :p11:48
seb128janimo: but things like xarchiver are listed iirc11:48
janimoseb128: oh by merges you mean not necessarily sync from debian, but just get newer versions so the merges do not show up?11:49
seb128janimo: one of the goal for those merges is to be near of Debian ... 11:49
janimoin this case yes I have been 'merging'11:49
janimoseb128: could you talk to debian xfce maintainers?11:49
seb128janimo: no, I mean doing an update based on the Debian package11:49
Kamionyou should be merging packaging from Debian as appropriate too11:49
pittijanimo: you should use the Debian packaging as long as possible11:49
Kamionthis means that the Ubuntu packages are not just dependent on a single guru who knows how they all work11:49
seb128janimo: like taking the Debian package, updating for the new version and reapplying Ubuntu changes you need over Debian11:50
janimoguysm I know this. However xfce deb mainatiners are 'not friendly' to put it mildly, and they have not much time keeping xfce up to date in debian11:50
elmoogra: fixed, really.11:51
seb128janimo: that's not a matter of "uptodate"11:51
seb128janimo: that's having packaging near of the Debian one11:51
janimoseb128: they're mostly uptodate now, but not the same as in debian11:51
seb128the goal of merging is to be near of Debian11:52
seb128not to be uptodate :)11:52
ograelmo, confirmed :)11:52
seb128is there any reason than the Debian packaging can't be use for Ubuntu?11:52
janimoseb128: really? tell that to gnome/kde/X/kernel maintainers in ubuntu :)11:52
seb128janimo: we did merge almost the whole GNOME from Debian since previous week11:52
Kamionjanimo: the Ubuntu X folks have been spending the last week or two merging packaging from Debian, so I'd pick a better example if I were you11:52
sivangjanimo: we could also do it like we do for GNOME , merge debian changes, and then import new upstream.11:52
janimoseb128: yes, they do not use cdbs all over - I am sure this convinced you ;)11:52
seb128janimo: even when they use debhelper, we don't have any reason to change the packaging system over them11:53
Kamionjanimo: there are cases for individual divergence, but the default is to do what Debian does11:53
mdzseb128: gaim seems to honor GNOME proxy settings now, but I am not sure this is a good idea11:53
seb128we have some GNOME package using debhelper11:53
slomo_doko: what's the status of the gcc/libgcc breakage on ppc?11:53
seb128mdz: why not?11:53
janimoKamion:, seb128: that is nice. There are 5 debian xfce packagers I ahve repeatedly approached them about friendly merging and sharing11:53
mdzseb128: it uses CONNECT, and squid by default doesn't allow that for arbitrary ports11:53
dokoslomo_: needs infinity for bootstrapping11:54
Kamionjanimo: we're just saying that the Ubuntu XFCE packages should be incorporating packaging bugfixes from Debian11:54
Kamionjanimo: not that you must be in exact sync with Debian11:54
Kamionthe standard way to indicate that you have incorporated packaging bug fixes is to do a normal merge11:55
Kamioneven if that merge then includes an update to a new upstream or whatever11:55
seb128mdz: the account preference have a "use the global parameter", you can set it to something else11:55
slomo_doko: ok... was there a real fix now or only disabling ssp in libgcc on ppc?11:55
janimoKamion: I am watching their packages and pick up stuff that is worth it. They don;t do the opposite though11:55
mdzseb128: oh good11:55
seb128mdz: do you think we should change the default value to "none"?11:55
Kamionjanimo: ok, but that's unrelated to the point of this merge session11:55
mdzseb128: I think so; I imagine most proxies do not allow this by default11:55
mdzseb128: where is that preference? I don't see it under network11:56
seb128mdz: ok, I'll do speak with upstream about it and change it with the next upload ... could you open a bug on launchpad about it? :)11:56
Kamionjanimo: we have plenty of packages elsewhere in Ubuntu whose Debian maintainers are hostile to us, but we merge from them anyway11:56
janimoKamion: I have done a few uploads yetsreday. Even if they no longer show up in the merges list, the fact they still have deltas means it's not as good as it should be right?11:56
seb128mdz: pick the account you want, edit it, the advanced tab11:56
mdzseb128: I can tomorrow; it's almost 030011:56
mdzseb128: oh, it's per-account11:56
seb128ok, thank you11:56
tsenganything with XubuntuY is a "delta"11:56
seb128some upstream are subscribed to launchpad for gaim11:57
tsengyou should just try to keep it as small as possible11:57
seb128so we can have the discussion on launchpad :)11:57
Kamionjanimo: sure, but we don't care right now - the point of the merge session is to ensure that we have merged everything from Debian at least once since the dapper release, where possible11:57
Kamionjanimo: still having a delta does not mean the merge session was useless11:57
janimoKamion: sure I work on that as well11:57
Kamionlots of us still have deltas to packages11:57
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janimoKamion: what I was saying is that beacuse I want near 0 delta, and I know how to get it, I cannot do it w/o debian and they are not interested, hence the divagations11:58
mdzseb128: more importantly, when I open a conversation, the input box is black on black11:58
mdzI'll make a note to file thatt one tomorrow also11:59
Kamionjanimo: ok, but as I said, that's orthogonal to what seb is asking for11:59
ograwow, seed merges are so much fun ... 6 files 6 conflicts .... sigh11:59
seb128mdz: ah, I had that issue when I updated to gaim2.0 beta1 some time ago I think, I bugged upstream but didn't reproduce it later11:59
janimowhich channel is heno most likely to be found?11:59
seb128(I tried to remove my .gaim, install gaim 1.2 again and upgrade)11:59
seb128mdz: I'll ping upstream about that again then, you can change the colors to the preferences dialog11:59
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henojanimo: hi12:00
mdzogra: there was a major seed reorganization during and after the sprint12:00
ogramdz, i know :) i'm just in ranting mode, you know ... (i'm merging g-p-m since yesterday morning ... that needs a valave ;) )12:01
janimoheno, hi the latest xfce has the accessibiliy keyboard dialog12:01
ogra*valve12:01
janimoheno: I have not tried it yet though12:01
henojamesh: yep I saw the changelog on OSnews or somewhere. Cool!12:01
henojanimo: is 4.4 on track for edgy inclusion?12:02
henoor will it be too late?12:02
janimoheno, it was for dapper too :) but upstream is not in a hurry. we now have 4.4beta2 hopefully we'll have final by edgy12:02
henoI guess we are at UVF now (!)12:02
janimodepends on when we freeze12:02
dokodholbach: ssp is pitti's pit12:03
StevenKsteven@jaded:~% TZ=UTC date12:03
StevenKWed Jul 12 10:03:08 UTC 200612:03
janimoheno: yes but I think xfce is in the same category as gnome, or at least it was excepted semi-offically for dapper12:03
dokos/pit/pet/ ;-P12:03
henook, cool12:03
dholbachdoko: ok, good to know :)12:03
StevenKNot for another 14 hours, it looks like.12:03
pittidholbach: re ssp, what's up?12:03
janimoas xfce is only going towards RC and release I think it is reaosnable to have post UVF  uploads12:03
henojanimo: right12:04
janimopitti: do you know if ivoks or anyone else had a look at the RH printing tool?12:04
pittijanimo: ivoks had, but it's difficult to adopt, since it uses a lot of RH-specific libs12:04
dholbachpitti: sealne had a problem with it on #ubuntu-motu (afflib, something he wants to package)12:04
henojanimo: I see new themes appearing too. Have you seen any high contrast ones?12:04
janimopitti: so gnome-cups-manager is staying?12:04
pittijanimo: ivoks is currently working on a replacement12:05
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janimoheno: no but I was going to ask you this as well. If there are good high contrast themes I'll add them to xubuntu-desktop12:05
pittijanimo: but g-c-m will remain the default until we have a suitable replacement12:05
janimopitti: is it targetted for edgy?12:05
pittijanimo: might not make it12:05
janimopitti: I'll need to talk to ivoks to keep in mind gtk only stuff12:05
henojanimo: the art team has started on updating the high viz icon set. I'm sure that can be used in xfce as well12:06
janimoheno, yes, anyting that is a gtk-theme can be  used, so anything from gnome12:06
janimobbl12:06
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=== StevenK wishes g-c-m wouldn't suck so much CPU.
StevenKOr gnome-cups-icon, anyway.12:08
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monomaniacpatdoes ubuntu support 1360x768? I have it specified in my xorg.conf12:17
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Riddelldholbach: sure12:22
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seb128I've just uploaded a new control-center which builds a gnome-control-center-dev, it's required by the new gnome-session to build so if somebody could accept and promote it later that would be nice :)12:33
seb128anyway, lunch time for now, bbl12:33
henoseb128: I was just looking at the code for that. I'd like to discuss some possible changes to the accessibility config window in the next few days. I'll send you an email with an overview12:39
Kamion[ Uploading job debian-installer_20060711ubuntu1_source12:42
Kamionwoo12:42
StevenKI bet that's a fun merge.12:44
ografear my changelog ....12:45
=== ogra laughs evlish
KamionStevenK: oh yes12:46
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fabbioneKamion: SCORE!!!!!!!12:49
fabbionenew installer12:49
=== fabbione kneels down in front of the d-i all mighty
Kamionfabbione: save the kneeling for if it builds first time12:51
fabbioneKamion: i am sure it will everywhere != sparc :P12:52
StevenKSo we should know by this time tomorrow.12:52
KamionI've only tested on powerpc12:52
Kamionsigh, gcc-4.1 FTBFS on powerpc12:54
elmoLP is going down in 13 minutes, ETD is 10 mins12:57
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fabbioneKamion: gcc on ppc needs bootstrapping01:09
elmoLP's back01:16
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sladenpitti: I think there was a slightly different patch that debian may have taken for 'linda' that achieves the same aim as the current Ubuntu patch (teaching it about our langpack locations)01:20
StevenKYes.01:21
StevenKsladen: I didn't agree with your patch, and I had already been bugged about localepurge killing Linda's ability to speak.01:22
rodarvuswow, #ubuntu-devel had gigantic talk this evening01:23
rodarvusit seems fabbione is feeling better today, given the amount of times he talked :P01:24
dholbachgrmbl help-ubuntu wiki two wikis fullsearch() does not work grmbl01:24
sladenStevenK: did the other patch that somebody else sent to you (make linda just use gettext rather than trying to do its own thing) make it anywhere?01:24
sladenStevenK: since that one avoids the need to patch in the extra patch as the lower-level C libraries are already twiddled for Debian01:25
StevenKOh, the mygettext thing.01:25
sladens/Debian$/Ubuntu$/01:25
StevenKI was waiting for Debian to hit Python 2.401:26
StevenKSince I moved .mo files, I don't think the twiddle in mygettext is needed.01:26
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elmo*.ubuntu.com, launchpad.net etc. are disappearing for a couple of minutes for some essential maintenance01:36
pittisladen: I saw the sync; thanks01:36
fabbionerodarvus: ahaha01:37
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dokoslomo_: Debian's 4.1.1-8 didn't show the failure with -fstack-protector, so maybe a problem fixed already upstream; but libgcc now is built with -fno-stack-protector by default02:05
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slomo_doko: ok... i could do some tests with a ssp enabled libgcc in the next week to see if we could enable it again02:06
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zulhey02:13
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RiddellKamion: could you move libqt4-debug to main?02:38
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janimohow can I find out what's keeping a package in 'needs building' ?02:41
janimoex: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/thunar-archive-plugin/0.2.0-0ubuntu202:41
pittijanimo: it just says what it says, the buildds need to catch up02:42
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pittijanimo: oops, https://launchpad.net/+builds looks like if there's a problem02:42
janimopitti:  I uploaded last night, I thought it got stuck on something else02:42
pittiKeybuk: https://launchpad.net/+builds looks bad02:43
gnomefreakwhat product would the man page mount.smbfs be? im thinking samba?02:43
pittignomefreak: smbfs package AFAIK02:44
gnomefreaki tried that02:44
gnomefreakit wouldnt accept it02:45
pittioh, product - well, that would be samba02:45
gnomefreaki was afraid of that ty02:45
Keybukpitti: I think elmo rebooted all of the data centre last night02:45
Keybukor even is doing so today02:46
janimowhat's the best place to check what changed between various debian policy versions? i.e from 3.6 to 3.702:46
janimothe policy manual does not seem to have a history or changelog02:46
Keybukjanimo: changelog.gz and upgrading-checklist.txt.gz in the debian-policy package02:47
janimoKeybuk: ok. I looked at the changelog but missed the other, thanks02:47
MithrandirKeybuk: can you give-back totem on amd64, please?02:49
KeybukMithrandir: also given back on sparc and ia6402:49
MithrandirKeybuk: cheers02:49
KamionRiddell: done02:50
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Riddellthanks02:50
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=== ogra wonders if anastacia is confused ... it wants to demote ltsp-manager to univers ... that has never been in main
Keybukltsp-manager |    0.0.1-1 |          edgy | source03:16
Keybukthe source is in main03:16
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Kamionltsp-manager |    0.0.1-1 |          edgy | source03:17
Kamionltsp-manager |    0.0.1-1 | edgy/universe | all03:17
Kamionoh Keybuk already said that03:17
Kamionogra: anastacia doesn't get confused in that kind of way03:17
ograthats intresting ...03:17
KamionBTW see https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ltsp-manager, "Component: main"03:17
ograhow did that end up there ... i never promoted it 03:17
Kamionthe person NEWing it probably just thought "oh it's ogra, he's going to want it in main eventually anyway"03:18
Kamionit should be demoted for now03:18
ograyep03:18
sivanganyone knows who  Michael T. Richter  is ?03:18
ograits not ready and the spec wasnt finished or approved since its a pet project of mine 03:18
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ograso it may slowly move to main over time with added features :)03:18
Hobbseesivang: https://launchpad.net/people/ttmrichter03:19
KeybukKamion: it was me, I think03:19
Keybukand I'm reasonably sure ogra _asked_ me to NEW it into main at the time03:20
Kamionheh03:20
ograKeybuk, dont worry, it will end up in main at some point ... but since the spec wasnt handled at all univers is the right place for now ...03:20
ograhmm, i cant remember asking explicitly for main 03:21
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sivangHobbsee: interesting, he's even an Ubuntu member so LP says03:21
ograespecially since i fear the wrath of pitti :)03:21
pittiogra: hm?03:21
Hobbseesivang: very03:21
ograpitti, for movig stuff to main past your back ;)03:21
pittiogra: oh, ltsp-manager ;) (well, that doesn't sound particularly fearsome)03:21
pittioh, well, that :)03:22
ograit isnt ...03:22
ograonly a gui to existing scripts that are in main already03:22
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pittibut it should have a certain level of quality for main03:22
ograyep03:22
rodarvusltsp-manager has a rootkit - or so ogra told me in private :D03:22
Kamioniwj: you should be able to do that gsfonts-x11 merge RSN03:22
ograand its still in development ...03:22
rodarvusoh, I was not supposed to say this in public :P03:22
ograrodarvus, shhh03:22
ogradamn ...03:23
=== ogra moves the rootkit directly into ltsp ... so nobody sees it
Keybukrodarvus: bit of luck nobody uses edubuntu anyway03:23
ivoks:)03:23
ograKeybuk, hey, we're place 58 (or so) on distrowatch !03:23
zulheh...ogra owns you03:23
rodarvusworld domination is coming!03:23
sivangKeybuk: if you have 5 minutes and have something I can bribe you with, I'd really really appriciate it if you went over SysteCleanUpTool and see if you have any more commments, or otherwise promote it to pending approval :-)03:23
ograyay03:24
ograKeybuk, and dont forget X is in edubuntu hands now :P03:24
Keybukogra: which puts you below "Pentoo", "SLAX", "Puppy", "GeeXboX", "VideoLinux", etc.03:24
ograas all the important projects (like ltsp and tuxmath)03:24
Keybukthough, amusingly, above Novell ... so rock on03:24
tsengI know some novell employees who would start frothing at the mouth if you mentioned that03:25
tsengand start pointing at reviews claiming their upcoming release is "even better than ubuntu"03:26
Keybuktseng: and in various areas, they're probably right03:26
sivangHobbsee: you know him ?03:26
tsengKeybuk: there are alot of good things to be sure03:26
Keybukthey've spent a huge amount of money on software development for NLD03:27
tsengusability testing03:27
zultseng: so ubuntu is the touchstone for novell now? pretty sweet ;)03:27
Keybukand I don't think that's a bad thing03:27
tsengwhile we pave new usability frontiers by breaking gnome in interesting ways03:28
tsengand Launchpad03:28
Keybukheh03:28
ivoksi find it funny that someone spends lots of many and then came up with "start button", something others allready discovered before then :)03:29
ivoksthem03:29
Keybukit's something I've talked to jdub about a lot -- the fact that we don't _want_ to seriously dent Novell or RHEL's market yet ... because we don't spend any money on software development, and they spend HUGE amounts03:29
janimoKamion, with the seeds kept in bazaar.lp.net what's their relation to the seeds in ~cjwatson? And is there still a need to mirror my local xubuntu seeds there? I see the cronjob is getting every 15 minutes still03:29
tsengivoks: its quite a bit more elegant than "a start button"03:29
iwjKamion: Aha.  RSN != now ?  I have it sitting around here I think.  Err, unless I cleaned it up.  Anyway, it was easy.03:29
Keybukif we made them disinterested in their Linux distros, we'd lose a lot of our upstreams (like gcc, glibc, most of GNOME, etc.)03:29
mjg59Keybuk: Right. In a lot of ways, we're as dependent on Novell and RH as we are on Debian03:29
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Kamionjanimo: ~cjwatson is a pulled copy of bazaar.lp.net now, for convenience03:29
ivokstseng: at least something :)03:29
tsengKeybuk: totally.03:30
Kamionjanimo: a need to mirror your local xubuntu seeds where?03:30
mjg59Keybuk: Interestingly, this is something that Sun claim as well03:30
tsengivoks: its in the same spot and it launches programs is about the only similarity03:30
ogralol03:30
Keybukmjg59: in which sense?03:30
sivangmjg59: they do have some code in GNOME no ?03:30
janimoKamion: you had a script which still seems to be running to mirror my local xubuntu seeds on people.u.com (since I did not commit there)03:30
mjg59That is, their aim is to ensure a thriving market that they can happily live in rather than to utterly dominate it03:30
ivokstseng: and what else should it do? :)03:30
=== sivang notices at least a dozen files with people from Sun copyrighted
ograpitti, wwwconfig-common is listed fro main inclusion ? 03:30
tsengivoks: try it.03:30
mjg59(At least, this is what certain people in Sun claim)03:31
pittiogra: no, I fixed backuppc03:31
Kamionjanimo: it's pulling from bazaar.lp.net, like the others03:31
pittiogra: anastacia is just lagging behind03:31
tsengivoks: it borrows from ideas from Gimmie03:31
ograpitti, ah, cool :)03:31
Kamionjanimo: it's just for convenience - you can ignore it if you like03:31
Keybukmjg59: *nods*  I think that's the right thing for Ubuntu -- be the lead of the community distros, and let RHEL and NLD take the corporates ... but certain people would disagree, I'm sure03:31
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Kamion(since bazaar.lp.net doesn't give a web-viewable working copy)03:31
tsengivoks: and ties in beagle03:31
mjg59Ubuntu has done wonders in bringing Linux to people who'd never consider RHEL or SLED03:31
ivokstseng: i don't see how beagle is good, but that could be only me :)03:32
tseng...03:32
tsengivoks: go sit in the corner :)03:32
mjg59There's absolutely no requirement for us to try to bring Linux to people who are already using Linux03:32
janimoKamion: but can I remove my branch on the local server which is mirrored to rookery every 15 minutes? since seeds are on LP now03:33
ivoksmjg59: yet03:33
mjg59ivoks: Ever03:33
Kamionjanimo: that was only for dapper - I've just changed the branch there to pull from bazaar.launchpad.net rather than from startx.ro03:33
tsengivoks: ever?03:33
jjessemjg59:  there is a group in the documentation team that is trying to help out with a switching from windows to *ubuntu guide03:33
pittifunny, http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu has a star trek favicon now :)03:33
Kamionjanimo: so yes, you can remove it now03:33
janimoKamion: ok, thanks03:33
mjg59jjesse: That sounds absolutely excellent03:33
ivoksmjg59: oh, i have misread you :)03:34
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tsengso I worked with a guy at work about building an ubuntu server in another data center03:34
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tsengas a result he installed kubuntu at home and loves it03:34
jdubmjg59, Keybuk: grmmmphrrm03:34
tsengand is totally excited about putting xubuntu on old hardware03:35
tsengand it being useful.03:35
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mjg59jdub: I'm a pretty firm believer that it's better to get free software to as many people as possible, rather than worry about whice specific free software they're going to use03:36
mjg59Obviously I have preferences about which free software they should be using, but...03:36
zulwe are converting our servers at work from redhat to ubuntu 03:37
tsengzul: thats taking me forever03:37
Kamioniwj: when xfonts-utils is up. Mithrandir seemed to think it would just be a sync; were there other local changes?03:37
zultseng we only have like 10 servers though03:38
ivoksi allready did that :)03:38
tsengyeah, lucky you03:38
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ivoks+ i have left the company that didn't want to do that :)03:38
janimoivoks: hey, I heard you're working on a printer config tool? is it pygtk based?03:38
ivoksjanimo: yes, pygtk, but atm i'm occupied with my exams, so i'll continue the work trough summer03:39
iwjKamion: I don't remember.  I'll look at it tomorrow; I've got a head full of dpkg dependency tangle today.03:39
jdubmjg59: you'll be pleased with me - there is now a PlasticAnalFlamingDeath page on the gnome wiki03:39
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janimoivoks: I am interested in such a tool for xubuntu, so just wanted to make sure you try using no gnome libs :)03:40
Kamioniwj: UVF is *start* of Thursday I believe, so perhaps we can go with Mithrandir's opinion that it can be synced.03:40
dholbachjdub: i can only find http://live.gnome.org/GiveMeUtf8OrGiveMeDeath on the wiki :-p03:40
pittiKeybuk: can you please sync jabber.py_0.5.0-1.3.dsc from Debian incoming to clean up some anastacia mess?03:40
ivoksjanimo: no gnome libs... plain simple pygtk03:40
iwj*start* of Thursday> Oh, bugger.03:41
janimoivoks: and gtk2.10 printing stuff instead of libgnomeprint?03:41
iwjI'll go and read it now.03:41
Keybukpitti: in the middle of a daily sync atm03:41
Mithrandiriwj: gsfonts-x11 is syncable so unless you have something apart from the merge bits of it, I'll ask for a sync.03:41
pittiKeybuk: want a bug report instead?03:41
Keybukpitti: please03:41
ivoksjanimo: i just want the tool that will add/remove/config printers, nothing else03:42
Riddelltseng: cool stuff03:42
iwjMithrandir: There's one change that gets dropped if you just sync.  http://merges.ubuntu.com/g/gsfonts-x11/gsfonts-x11_0.17ubuntu4.patch search for remove_old_fontpath, the change to the value of XF86CONFIG.03:43
Mithrandiriwj: hm, indeed.  Is that filed in the Debian BTS?03:43
Mithrandiriwj: also, AIEE at changing xorg.conf/XF86Config with grep.03:44
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sivangivoks: you said you wanted to talk about backup stuff? 03:45
iwjI don't think it's reported in the BTS.  But it wasn't clear to me whether we want to keep it since it's probably messing about with things that were only relevant in old config files.03:45
ivokssivang: hm...? could you remind me?03:45
Mithrandiriwj: I think so, and so dropping that change should be fine.  IMO, at least.03:46
iwjYes, and editing it is a bit grim.03:46
sivangivoks: no idea, you just wante to talk about it , and I had to go :-/ I guess youve forgotten03:46
Mithrandiriwj: ok, so you're fine with me asking for a sync, then?03:46
iwjRight.  I thought it wasn't needed but I wasn't sure so my upload was going to keep the change but if you also agree it should be dropped then we should sync it.03:46
iwjYes.03:46
ivokssivang: heh, i really don't remeber :/03:46
Mithrandiriwj: great, sync requested, thanks.03:46
pygisivang, ^_^03:47
iwjMithrandir, Kamion: Thanks.03:47
mjg59jdub: Shame I'm not allowed to read it03:47
jdubmjg59: sorry.03:47
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=== iwj goes back to fixbyrm->clientdata->istobe et al.
Kamionswap you for gparted03:48
iwjKamion: No way :-).03:48
Kamionhate hate hate random whitespace changes *all the time*03:48
Kamionit would be ok if the result were something sane rather than a different horrible mish-mash each time round03:49
maswanpitti: http://security.ubuntu.com/conspiracy/ ;)03:49
pittimaswan: :) I saw the redirection to your mirror, I just found it funny03:50
Lathiathaha03:50
Hobbseehehe03:50
ivoksit would be nice to see python-lcms03:51
maswanpitti: security updates is almost as taxing as releases, we've been bumping into our 2Gbit/s networking limit several times, http://www.acc.umu.se/technical/statistics/ftp/monitordata/03:52
jdubmaswan: ooh.03:53
jdubhooray for the swedish conspiracy infecting ubuntu as well :-)03:54
maswan:)03:54
jsgotangcohahaha03:57
Lathiatmaswan: they ubuntu security updates?03:57
maswanLathiat: We're hosting security.u.c a while, that's where all the bandwidth use comes from03:58
Lathiatah right, you dont usually host it?03:58
maswanNope03:59
Lathiatah right03:59
Lathiatdamn thats a lot of traffic03:59
Lathiatperhaps from the kernel update?03:59
maswanNormally we just host the se.* stuff, but we step in and help out with a few other DNS names now and then.03:59
Lathiattheyd be quite large03:59
maswanooffice is no light-weight either03:59
Lathiatwhen did that come out?04:00
=== Lathiat can't see a USN for OOo
maswanUSN-313-104:00
maswanDate: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 15:09:24 +020004:00
Lathiatoh id gone past it04:00
Lathiatheh04:00
Lathiatrighto04:00
dokoKamion, Mithrandir: can anybody else than infinity hand-build a package on a buildd?04:00
Mithrandirdoko: ttbomk, no.04:01
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janimoTheMuso: hi04:03
ograjanimo, have you seen the changes to the edubuntu-xfce spec ? 04:03
fabbionedoko: probably cprov can.04:03
janimoTheMuso: do you know if orca is planned for edgy (it's in universe now)04:03
janimoogra: I am subscribed to it04:04
ograoki04:04
janimoogra: but do not remember details, are you thinking about anything in particular ?04:04
ograjanimo, it will cause some extra work on your side the way it was finalized04:04
KeybukKamion: what's the netdev group on Debian for?04:04
janimoogra: it's not yet decided how to make metapackages and seeds right?04:04
ograjanimo, its approved04:04
janimoogra: ok, I'll take a look now04:05
ogratake your time ... i just wanted to notify you04:05
ogra(we wont be able to jump on it right away anyway)04:05
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janimoogra I would have preferred gnome-desktop-core + edubuntu-packages instead of splitting xubuntu-desktop but should have commented earlier :)04:09
janimoas there is an xfce metapcakge already which could be a drop-in for gnome-desktop metapackage04:09
ograjanimo, its based on mdz's suggestions as it is now04:09
janimoso are you planning abiword/gnumeric as well or other apps besdies xfce core?04:10
ograwe'll have a common base and either of us has a toplevel package04:10
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janimoI thought OOo was a requirement for certification exams so should stay in edubuntu04:10
ograwhich gets you into the situation that you have to maintain two seeds indeed ...04:10
ograyep04:11
seb128Keybuk: any idea of why the control-center gnome-applets gnome-session uploads made some hours ago are not published? 04:11
ograthats what we'll solve in the toplevel package in edubuntu04:11
janimoso you only need xfce desktop no other additional apps?04:11
ograyep04:11
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ograwe'll ship thunar only idf there is space on the CD for example 04:12
janimoand adjusting the existing xfce metapackage (it's close already) and getting that on the edubntu CD without doing anything with seeds is not possible?04:12
Keybukseb128: probably stranded or lost04:12
janimoand split edubuntu-desktop in gnome desktop +edubuntu specific04:12
ograwe'll need a topleven package that adds the missing bits ... but the xfce package should be our common base04:12
ogra*toplevel04:12
janimoright04:12
ograedubuntu-desktop will stay as is04:13
Keybukseb128: will investigate in a minute04:13
ograwe'll add a edubuntu-xfce-desktop package that depends on xfce-desktop and adds the missing pieces04:13
seb128Keybuk: thank you04:14
janimoso you can just have a new edubuntu-xfce-desktop which is xfce4 plus missing pieces (which overlap edubuntu desktop a lot)04:14
ograyep04:14
janimobut in this case nothing xubuntu needs to change as I see it04:14
janimoyou just use the existing xfce metapckage and build a new edubntu around it04:15
ograif the xfce package has the suffuicient bits no...04:15
ograanyway, its up to rodarvus to implement it :)04:15
janimocool, as xfce4 is not used by xubuntu (it's the old debian xfce all-in-one desktop) and we specify every dep explicitely in xubuntu-desktop I think we're fine04:16
ograjanimo, then ewe cant use it04:16
ograjanimo, what we want is the base of xubuntu04:16
ograi thought you use the xfce4 package04:16
janimobut the base of xubuntu is xfce core (which is in xfce4) + non-xfce apps which you said you wont use04:16
Kamiondoko: lamont mind be able to04:16
Kamions/mind/might/04:16
janimoogra, more or less overlap but don;t use it directly, it's in universe04:17
janimobut yes we can make a common core to make sure we do not diverge or have other surprises04:17
ograjanimo, yeah04:17
janimoI just wanted to be sure  I don't need to split or add extra stuff to xubuntufor this, as a metapackage would do04:17
KamionKeybuk: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=35271304:17
UbugtuDebian bug 352713 in base-passwd "Subject: base-passwd: Please add netdev and powerdev groups" [Wishlist,Closed]  04:17
ograand to make sure that we dont duplicate meta packages .i.e pulling xfce4 to main would be silly04:18
gnomefreaktomorrow it he last day for accepting new versions of programs right?04:18
gnomefreaks/he/the04:18
KamionKeybuk: I was planning to ignore that user-setup change for edgy unless told otherwise04:18
janimoogra so now xubuntu-desktop directly depends on each xfce component and non-xfce app. xfce4 metapackage depends on xfce components and is in universe04:18
janimoany xfce meta package that brings xfce core components to edubuntu is fine with me04:19
janimoand does not need xubuntu seed changes04:19
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ograjanimo, the point of the spec is that you maintain the corfe package and we maintain the add-on package04:20
ogra*core04:20
janimoI am happy to help with any other xfce issue though :) if some gnome-like bits are missing or anything that need coding04:20
ograsince xfce is your domain04:20
janimoogra, ok sure I maintain that, only not via seeds. Ok?04:20
janimoso I keep an uptodate metapackage of xfce core04:20
gnomefreakatm xubuntu-desktop depends on a gnome app that isnt around yet04:20
ograno, i think mdz will object if you dont do it via seeds04:20
dokolamont: ping ^^^04:21
KeybukKamion: yeah, I just encoutered netdev via dhcdbd04:21
janimohmm, will have to see why then. Is it needed for the CD boot menu?04:21
KeybukKamion: we can always add them later if we want04:21
gnomefreaknvm looks like it was fixed04:21
ograjanimo, but lets wait until rodarvus and mdz are around ... i'm not the guy who will implement that spec 04:21
ogra(i'll likely maintain the seeds on the edubuntu side, but thats all=04:22
ogra)04:22
Keybukseb128: dude, you'll have to be more specific04:22
KeybukWHICH builds are missing?04:22
Keybukor are sources missing?04:23
seb128Keybuk: not builds, but new versions listed04:23
seb128Accepted gnome-session 2.15.4-0ubuntu1 (source)04:23
seb128Accepted gnome-applets 2.15.1.1-0ubuntu1 (source)04:23
seb128Accepted control-center 1:2.15.4-0ubuntu1 (source)04:23
seb128https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/gnome-applets by example list 04:23
seb1282.14.1-0ubuntu304:23
Keybukseb128: they're not missing?04:23
seb128not 2.15.1.1-0ubuntu104:24
seb128hum04:24
Keybuksee, this is why you need to be more specific <g>04:24
seb128k04:24
seb128the example I just gave is clear? :)04:24
seb128https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/gnome-applets claims "Current version:  2.14.1-0ubuntu3"04:24
Keybuk2.15.1.1-0ubuntu1 has not yet been published, likewise the others04:24
zulKeybuk: cam you see if vmware-player i did for security actually went to security yesterday?04:24
Keybukzul: no, ask pitti04:24
seb128Keybuk: ok, any idea of why? ;)04:24
zulpitti: ping04:24
pittihi zul 04:24
Keybukseb128: what time did you upload them?04:25
seb128Keybuk: around 3-4 hours ago04:25
zulhi pitti can you check vmware-player for me?04:25
pittizul: I released it some time ago, but security updates seem to have trouble trickling trough the mirrors04:25
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zulah ok...thanks04:25
pittizul: I'll wait after next cron.daily and check again04:25
ograzul, dont forget about the modules package :)04:25
Keybuk-rw-r--r--  1 lp_upload lp_upload 2402 Jul 12 11:25 ../ubuntu-queue/accepted/upload-20060712-113230-000626/control-center_2.15.4-0ubuntu1.dsc04:25
Keybukthat's the one?04:25
zulogra: it is the modules package :)04:25
seb128yep04:25
seb128one of them04:25
ograzul, heh, ok :)04:25
seb128gnome-session and gnome-applets around the same time too04:26
seb128I uploaded them before lunch04:26
Keybuk   70490 | S- | control-center       | 1:2.15.4-0ubuntu1    | 3 hours 50 minutes04:26
Keybuk         | * control-center/1:2.15.4-0ubuntu1 Component: main Section: x1104:26
Keybukit's in accepted04:26
ograthe buildds are slacking :P04:26
seb128so that's just the launchpad UI lagging?04:26
Keybuk   70498 | S- | gnome-applets        | 2.15.1.1-0ubuntu1    | 3 hours 40 minutes04:26
Keybuk         | * gnome-applets/2.15.1.1-0ubuntu1 Component: main Section: gnome04:26
seb128good too04:26
Keybuk   70500 | S- | gnome-session        | 2.15.4-0ubuntu1      | 3 hours 30 minutes04:27
Keybuk         | * gnome-session/2.15.4-0ubuntu1 Component: main Section: gnome04:27
Keybukthose three?04:27
seb128yep04:27
Keybukpublisher is dead04:27
ograthere were many reboots in the DC today ...04:27
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Keybukyeah04:28
seb128Keybuk: which would explain why they have not been published :p04:28
KeybukLP never comes back from a reboot04:28
=== Keybuk gets the gloves and lubricant out
sivangoh dear...04:28
sivangthat sounds nasty04:28
seb128I'm sure you can get it back to life, thank you :)04:28
sivang:)04:28
=== ogra goes mowing the lawn ...
seb128;)04:28
ograi cant bear seeing Keybuk doing that04:28
=== sivang turns away his sight
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PetarisIs there a doc that will tell me how to compile glibc-2.3.4 for ubuntu?04:30
=== Lathiat wonders why you would want to do that
PetarisI have searched the wiki at www.ubuntu.com but found nothing04:30
PetarisLathiat: I need glibc-2.3.4 to satisfy a pesky app, I want to compile and install it in /opt/lib04:31
Keybukwhy won't the app work with 2.3.6 ?04:31
Petarisso the system can use 2.3.6 but I can LD_PRELOAD that app with 2.3.404:31
KeybukPetaris: you'd be better off reading the glibc docs04:31
PetarisKeybuk: I don't know, tech support didn't elaborate04:31
Keybukit's pretty much ./configure --prefix=/opt/lib && make && sudo make install04:32
Keybukwith a couple of days of waiting in the middle04:32
PetarisKeybuk: Yeah, I have been, but I didn't know if there was anything speacial that had to be done for ubuntu04:32
KeybukPetaris: only if you want an Ubuntu glibc package ... which clearly you don't04:32
Petarisoh, ok04:32
Petarisalso it complains that I am trying to build in the source directory04:33
Keybukthen don't build in the source directory -- see the glibc docs04:33
Petarisseems to want to be built in a seperate build directory but I'm not sure how I should move the object files04:34
Petarisis it as simple as just coping them?04:34
Keybukmkdir build && cd build && ../configure --prefix=/opt/lib && make && sudo make install04:34
Keybukquite frankly though, if you don't know how to do this, you really shouldn't be doing it ;)04:34
Keybukseb128: right, so that's the buildd slave and queue resurrected04:34
sivangbe back later04:35
PetarisKeybuk: Last time I built glibc I was using Gentoo, and I've never had anything complain about being built in a source dir before04:35
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Keybukthat's a glibc thing, I'm sure04:36
Petarisoh04:36
=== seb128 hugs Keybuk
seb128Keybuk: thank you ;)04:36
Keybukseb128: still got to resurrect the publisher yet :-/04:36
pittiKeybuk: that sounds like my security updates could eventually appear, too04:38
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Keybuk14:39:14 INFO    After paring out any builds for which we lack source, 2443 NEEDSBUILD04:39
Keybukright04:39
cpercyIs jeff bailey here ?04:42
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iwjWell, I haven't changed a line of code yet and I've already found three bugs so far ...04:54
Keybukiwj: dpkg?04:54
iwjYes.04:54
Amaranth...04:54
iwjAdmittedly I think two of these bugs are from the same patch.04:54
iwjBut I'm not doing archaeology now to find out.04:55
iwjOh, they're generally too complicated and obscure to bother explaining.04:55
iwjThe best one is that if A conflicts with B and you say dpkg --install A.deb B.deb with neither installed it works.04:55
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=== Keybuk writes a quick RpmPackageManager spec
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KamionKeybuk,iwj: which reminds me, did I point you guys to http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/rpm_hell.html ?05:06
Keybukyeah you've mentioned that before05:06
Kamion"RPM uses a "best effort" algorithm when doing upgrades. What actually happened here is that the previous versions were removed as part of the upgrade process, and the newer versions were installed. At least as much as possible. :-) As many files as could be removed from the old install were, and that install was removed from the RPM DB. As much of the new stuff as could be installed was, but the install of some items f05:06
thomyeah, that bug is really special05:07
KeybukRPM famously doesn't bother to check the return value of syscalls05:07
mswoh that05:07
mswKeybuk: at least most of the exit() calls in librpm are gone now05:07
msw(yes, but not all)05:07
Keybuktheir reasoning was that RPM implements a "verify" function, which is more reliable05:07
mswwow, that bug is _still_ getting comments?05:08
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Evaso2Keybuk: hi, i have talked with tony the n-m pptp plugin developer05:09
fabbionedoko: ping?05:10
Evaso2Keybuk: the problem is The default installation of pppd on most05:11
Evaso2distros however, provides an ip-up script which is called by pppd directly05:11
Evaso2when an IP connection is established05:11
Keybukright, making n-m's VPN plugins work properly involves breaking our default installation05:12
Keybukn-m works at the cost of "no n-m" working05:13
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Evaso2keybuk: i see that the /etc/ppp/ip-up/ip-up.d/000-usepeerdns use an env variable [ "$USEPEERDNS" ]  || exit 005:13
=== Hobbsee wonders who did wpa_supplicant.
Evaso2Keybuk: we can workaround nm-plugin controlling this env variable so ip-up doesn't modify resolv.conf05:14
KeybukHobbsee: we just sync'd that, why?05:15
fabbionesfllaw: ping?05:15
KeybukEvaso2: feel free, if you can get a working NM VPN setup which doesn't break the system working without NM, we'll gladly accept the patches05:15
Keybukfabbione: sick today05:15
fabbioneoh right05:15
HobbseeKeybuk: i havent checked the debian version, but the wpa_supplicant parameter for ndiswrapper changed to be wext, instead of ndiswrapper. 05:16
Hobbseei'm assuming debian version picked it up05:16
Evaso2Keybuk: ok i talk with the upstream author if it would integrate this feature so all ip-up distro could work around this resolv.conf issue05:17
Hobbseebecause i cant seem to force my ndiswrapper card to use the wpa encryption via knetworkmanager in dapper, and we probably dont want to have that problem in edgy too.05:17
Hobbseebleh.  my brain died.  feel free to ignore that.05:17
fabbioneHobbsee: do you feel like doing 2 merges in main? i will sponsor them05:17
Hobbseefabbione: which ones?05:18
fabbioneHobbsee: wvdial and wvstreams please.05:18
fabbioneHobbsee: sfllaw is sick so if somebody can take care of those it would be lovely05:18
=== Hobbsee will look at them. no more commitment than that at the moment.
fabbioneHobbsee: ok i recall the changes to wmdial to pretty simple. dunno about wvstreams05:20
Kamioner, I thought I synced xfonts-utils - what happened to it?05:20
Kamionoh, no, Mithrandir uploaded it05:21
KamionMithrandir: still here?05:21
siretartHobbsee: all wifi drivers should be forced to work with wext05:21
Hobbseesiretart: right...05:21
KamionMithrandir: you forgot to use -sa05:22
Kamionoh, he's gone - I'll fudge together the upload05:22
fabbioneKamion: can you get the diff.gz and dsc out of the queue?05:22
fabbioneyeah exactly05:22
Kamionyup05:23
dokofabbione: pong05:23
Hobbseefabbione: in all honesty, i dont think my brain will get around those merges well enough tonight.  it's about 1.30am at the moment05:25
Hobbseefabbione: if i merged it now, i'd be guessing, without a clue of what i was doing - and i dont think that's what you want05:26
fabbioneHobbsee: ok thanks. Fair enough05:26
Hobbseefabbione: usually, i'd say yes.  or give it a shot at least.  but i think tonight, my brain's a bit far gone :P05:27
fabbioneHobbsee: no problem05:27
pittifabbione: I can look at wvdial, I think I roughly know what we changed05:28
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Hobbseepitti: probably a good idea - i dont see anyone else volunteering for it05:29
=== pitti grabs wvdial then
fabbionepitti: ok05:29
=== Hobbsee looks at wvstreams
Hobbseeah ha - this one looks doable (i think)05:29
fabbionepitti: you can also drop the sparc bit05:29
Keybukpitti: you still have mesa on your list, no?05:29
fabbionepitti: it was wrong05:30
fabbioneKeybuk: mesa -> Robot101 05:30
pittiKeybuk: yes, but no clue about it05:30
fabbionehem05:30
fabbioneKeybuk: mesa -> rodarvus 05:30
Keybukok05:30
KamionWTF05:30
=== Robot101 runs away :D
fabbioneKeybuk: he is already looking at it05:30
KamionSTUPID XSF BUILD SYSTEM05:30
KeybukKamion: ?05:30
Kamion        rm -f debian/*.config \05:30
Kamion              debian/*.postinst \05:30
Kamion...05:30
fabbioneKamion: you need to call it postinst.in and add a call to genscripts in debian/rules05:30
pittifabbione: wvdial? sparc? hmm?05:30
fabbionenote that the postinst needs some special stuff in it05:30
fabbioneKamion: let me find a snippet for you05:31
Hobbseefabbione: tackling wvstreams05:31
fabbioneHobbsee: good :)05:31
Kamionfabbione: an example package would be fine05:31
fabbioneKamion: xorg-server has one very simple postinst.in and one call to genscript05:31
fabbioneKamion: i was digging it from there05:31
Kamionthanks05:32
fabbioneKamion: all the keywords at the beginning are mandatory05:32
MithrandirKamion: bah, sorry.  Also, thanks.05:33
Hobbseefabbione: yep, i can do this one.  MoM's weirded out again - saying that a section of debian/rules that look the same to me are, in fact, different.  besides that, in both versoins, they're commented out.  heh.05:34
thomRobot101: that's some pretty unfortunate delegation right there05:34
fabbioneHobbsee: perfect.. let me know when you are done and i will upload for you05:34
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=== Hobbsee considers throwing it at the builds without testing...no...no...i cant do that...
Hobbseefabbione: got a quick place to build it, by any chance?  my machines already building kopete...05:35
fabbioneHobbsee: yeah send the source here05:35
fabbioneHobbsee: can you upload to main?05:35
fabbionef not just send it here05:35
=== Hobbsee raises an eyebrow at fabbione
Hobbseefabbione: i'm going for MOTU at the next meeting, actually05:35
zulHobbsee: yay!05:35
Kamionfabbione: only if you're using shell-lib ;)05:35
fabbioneHobbsee: cool05:36
Hobbseefabbione: assuming i wake up.05:36
fabbioneKamion: yes, but it's a good idea to keep it consistent.. really...05:36
Robot101thom: :)05:36
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Hobbseefabbione: grabbing a debdiff for you now 05:36
fabbioneHobbsee: thanks05:36
KamionI guess05:36
Kamionseems like massive overkill for this postinst, but ok05:37
Hobbseefabbione: brain freeze - debdiff would be the new version versus the old ubuntu version?  or the current debian?05:37
fabbioneHobbsee: debdiff oldversion newversion05:37
fabbione| mail -s'debdiff' fabbione@ubuntu.com05:37
fabbioneHobbsee: one of the good things about unix.. it's always $command $from $to05:38
fabbioneor at least should be...05:38
Hobbseefabbione: i'm more asking which the "oldversion" would be - the old ubuntu, or the old debian?05:38
Hobbseei'm assuming the old ubuntu05:38
fabbioneold ubuntu05:38
pittifabbione: bah, merging was easy, but Debian's package doesn't build on current edgy (some obscure C++ error); I'm afraid we need to merge wvstreams first05:38
MithrandirHobbsee: that depends on whether you want a reverse diff or not. :-P05:39
HobbseeMithrandir: heh05:39
=== Hobbsee tickles Mithrandir before he can run away!
fabbionepitti: getting therre...05:39
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pittimaswan: ping05:40
maswanpitti: pong05:40
pittimaswan: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/s/shadow/ now has shadow_4.0.13-7ubuntu3.2.dsc, but security.u.c doesn't yet have it05:40
pittimaswan: is that a problem on our or your end?05:40
Hobbseefabbione: sent05:41
fabbioneHobbsee: got it thanks05:41
Hobbseefabbione: :)05:41
maswanpitti: We sync hourly, apparenlty it wasn't there at :13 this hour. I can send off a new sync though, if you want.05:42
=== Hobbsee waves to pitti, but doesnt stomp on his feet today
pittimaswan: it's a fairly 'OMG the sky is falling' update, I just need it fairly quickly since i have to leave soon05:42
KeybukHobbsee: usually they're different in whitespace05:42
KeybukI'd be using -w everywhere, if it wasn't for Python05:43
HobbseeKeybuk: yeah, good point05:43
maswanpitti: Ok, working on getting it here ASAP.05:43
Keybukmaswan: the archive system wasn't working 30 minutes ago <g>05:43
Keybukif you sync now, it will be there05:43
HobbseeKeybuk: who's on the tech board meeting this week, approving people?  you?05:43
KeybukHobbsee: there is no tech-board meeting this week05:43
HobbseeKeybuk: s/this/next05:44
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Hobbseei'm glad there isnt, otherwise i'd have to live in the past.05:44
KeybukHobbsee: I'm not sure I understand the question05:44
maswanWaiting for the rsync, donig a quickie so Packages* will be outdated until pool/ updates (normally we do the two-stage thingie)05:44
KeybukI actually won't be present for next week's TB meeting05:44
HobbseeKeybuk: right, that answers half of it.  the other half is "who will be?05:44
KeybukHobbsee: I cannot answer for who will be05:45
HobbseeKeybuk: okay05:45
Keybukwhy?05:45
=== Hobbsee was curious, that's all
Keybukthe TB is mdz, mjg59, sabdfl and I05:45
Keybuksabdfl rarely turns up05:45
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Hobbseetrue05:45
=== maswan mumbles about samba updating slightly before shadow and drums fingers impatiently
HobbseeKeybuk: actually, i probably should tell you - applying for upload rights to universe, and was wondering who id' be up against05:50
imbrandonBenC, ping 05:50
BenCimbrandon: pong05:50
pittimaswan: oh, cool, then I can release the other two USNs as well :)05:52
imbrandonBenC, i got a quickie question about the linux-source-* packaging, specificly is there a reson it dosent show as an upgrade when a new one is avail , like when the kernel is updated ? ( this is a problem for those of us that use non included nic drivers like nvidia nforce )05:52
BenCimbrandon: it's because you don't have the meta package installed, I would guess05:52
imbrandonjust wondering if there was a specific reason its not upgraded with dist-upgraed also i guess is my question )05:53
BenCimbrandon: sudo apt-get install linux-686, or linux-386, or whatever flavour it is you use05:53
BenCsame reason05:53
imbrandonahh right i do that but also install linux-source-*05:53
BenCthe meta package is the only thing that will keep you up-to-date05:53
imbrandonright but the kernel does update just not the source05:53
BenCah, ok, so there's no linux-meta package for the source05:53
BenChmm05:53
BenCwhy do you need the source?05:53
imbrandonright right05:53
BenCwhy not use the linux-headers packages, which do have meta-packages?05:54
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imbrandonme specificly i have to recompile my nic drivers against it every update ( but vmware server and other things need it too )05:54
imbrandonhrm05:54
BenCthe headers provide exactly that05:54
maswanpitti: pool/main/s/shadow/shadow_4.0.13-7ubuntu3.2.dsc05:54
imbrandonhrm yea , is there a meta for the headers so they get updated ?05:54
BenCthe source isn't meant for compiling modules05:54
maswanpitti: can you verify everything got there properly?05:54
pittimaswan: thanks a lot!05:54
Mithrandirmaswan: my apt seems happy at least.05:55
iwjFour.05:55
BenClinux-headers-$flavour05:55
fabbionepitti: new wvstreams is up05:55
BenCsame as the linux-image metapackage05:55
imbrandonahh nice BenC , ok thanks sorry to bother you for something so trivial i'm sure you got lots of wrok to do ;)05:55
pittifabbione: yay; I looked at the debian diff, that was the reason for the build failure; however, I'll still test before I upload05:55
fabbionepitti: ok05:55
elmodoes busybox not have job control or something?05:55
Kamionogra: mind if I take care of xfonts-terminus? I think it can be synced05:56
Kamionelmo: depends on the config05:56
imbrandons/wrok/work05:56
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BenCimbrandon: no, but in the future, questions like this belong in #ubuntu, or if it's kernel specific, you can try #ubuntu-kernel05:56
BenCs/no/np/05:56
ograKamion, fine with me ... i still have a long night ahead with g-p-m05:56
imbrandonsure thing05:56
imbrandon;)05:56
Keybukok05:56
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KeybukMoM output should be up to date again now05:57
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maswanMithrandir: well, if you needed samba stuff from universe, it wouldn't be getting happy until about now05:58
KamionKeybuk: please unblacklist xfonts-scalable; you have it open05:58
Kamionit => sync-blacklist05:58
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KeybukKamion: ok06:00
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PetarisKeybuk: Would it be detramental to downgrade binutils?06:00
KeybukPetaris: dude, you're so going to fuck your system :p06:00
Keybukis the rogue app *really* worth it? :p06:00
PetarisKeybuk: Wouldn't be the first time06:01
PetarisKeybuk: Orginiztions backup system06:01
Petaris:/06:01
Keybukwhy not just run breezy instead?06:01
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PetarisIts also an ltsp server and was recomended that I run dapper06:02
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Petarisit seems that this version of binutils issues06:03
Petarishttp://groups.google.com/group/linux.debian.bugs.dist/browse_thread/thread/e0661bd5e211edf4/46305f3dd0c2266a%2346305f3dd0c2266a06:03
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PetarisBut I don't know what about it is causing the issue06:04
Petarisso I guess I can't say for sure that it is a binutils issue06:04
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Keybukanyone doing speech-tools ?06:05
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Keybukok, done it myself (easy -- just a sync)06:06
Kamioniwj: can I take ttf-freefont from you?06:07
KamionI believe it's a sync - the optional-priority business doesn't actually matter because that's overridden anyway06:07
Hobbseesigh.  horrid connection tonight, laptop isnt behaving.06:07
Kamionand honestly, who cares whether a udeb is optional or extra06:08
KeybukHobbsee: probably mdz and mjg59, though you'd have my blessing too06:08
HobbseeKeybuk: okay.  i'd have your blessing?06:08
KeybukHobbsee: for ubuntu-dev06:09
HobbseeKeybuk: ah :)06:09
HobbseeKeybuk: wish you could have an impromtu meeting so i wouldnt have to wake up early for the proper one.06:09
Hobbseeand be mostly incoheratnt06:10
bluefoxicyIf it's before noon, Hobbsee isn't really awake.  Typing, yes, but not awake.  :)06:11
Hobbseebluefoxicy: at 6am though?  06:11
Hobbseeheh06:11
bluefoxicy.... ouch.06:11
Hobbseevery ouch06:11
=== bluefoxicy is barely awake and it's 12:03
KeybukHobbsee: you're in .au?  the problem there is when you're awake, the TB are all asleep <g>06:12
HobbseeKeybuk: yes, exactly06:12
HobbseeKeybuk: currently it's 2am - i'm a night person, not a morning person06:12
HobbseeRiddell can testify to that06:12
bluefoxicyhold the meetings at 3am on a saturday, that way it'll be like 11pm there for hobsee and nobody will really care because we all stay up ungodly late anyway06:13
Hobbseehaha06:13
Hobbsee11pm is 1300UTC - it's not bad.  that's when our kubuntu meetings are now06:14
bluefoxicy(you may laugh, but I know like 6 people on another network, in the same channel, that are all in my city, that are all still up at 4am x_x)06:14
KeybukHobbsee: which is 6am for mdz06:14
=== Hobbsee effectively said "you're going to have to move it, or you're goign to have to lose me off your committee, because i cant make these meetings anymore)
HobbseeKeybuk: yeah, ouch.  there's nothing that suits everyone, i know06:14
bluefoxicycan't you move the meetings around?06:14
bluefoxicysome people will miss this month's, some will miss next months, but at least you won't torture the same people over and over or lose them off the comittee06:15
Hobbseebluefoxicy: could do.  not that many people absolutely must attend - quorums only 3 people, iirc.06:15
Kamion206:15
HobbseeKamion: 3 for kcc.06:16
imbrandonbluefoxicy, and as small as the kcc is one missing is sometimes a pita06:16
Hobbseeout of 6 people06:16
KamionHobbsee: oh right, I thought you meant TB06:16
Keybukthe problem we have with the TB is that 3 of the board are in the same timezone, and soon, all 4 will be06:16
HobbseeKamion: ah, well, i could be, but as far as i know, i'm not suddenly on the TB, making it mandatory for me to be at all meetings :P06:16
Keybukwhich means if we rotate the meeting, then you have meetings without Q06:16
imbrandonKeybuk, and thats a problem ?06:16
iwjKamion: Yes, do.06:16
iwjI think they took my patch, yes.06:17
HobbseeKeybuk: yeah, that's the problem we face too06:17
Keybukimbrandon: it's a problem if the meeting time is rotated06:17
iwjI reported it and they said they would, anyway.06:17
imbrandonKeybuk, ahh yea06:17
iwjKamion: (^ all re ttf-freefont)06:17
bluefoxicysplit meetings06:17
iwjMust go and catch train to go climbing now.  Talk to you tomorrow morning :-).06:17
imbrandonbluefoxicy, those suck06:17
Hobbseeiwj: enjoy!06:17
bluefoxicyimbrandon:  heh, don't want to hold half this morning and half this afternoon?  :P06:17
Hobbseebluefoxicy: urgh, no thanks.06:18
Kamioniwj: yeah, the Georgian thing was taken AFAICS06:18
bluefoxicyat least then the people who are still around from the morning can relay things, or in the afternoon there are meeting logs everyone can review06:18
Hobbseebluefoxicy: they did that once.  it was very pointless.06:18
bluefoxicyHobbsee:  the people that needed to talk with eachother weren't on at the same time?06:19
Hobbseebluefoxicy: no, more that they decided everything on the first meeting, and the second was just a rehash of the first06:19
Hobbseebesides, with people applying for things, it's a bit nasty to leave them hanging for half a day.06:19
Hobbseebluefoxicy: you'll understand that, once you go up for membership or something.  they're big and scary :P06:19
bluefoxicyHobbsee:  ever applied for a driver's license?06:19
Hobbseebluefoxicy: yeah, twice.06:20
bluefoxicy"Please take this number and wait in this chair.  We'll call you... in about 18 hours."06:20
Hobbseebluefoxicy: nah, licencing here is better than that.  and i think i made the guy laugh too hard to pay much attention to my driving for the practical test :P06:21
Keybukok, bluez-utils done06:21
=== Hobbsee is good at stuff like that :P
=== bluefoxicy did parallel parking in 5 minutes, failed the test 3 times before they just conferred him a license to get rid of him.
Hobbseebluefoxicy: hah.  /me got told she did one of the best parallel parks he'd seen all day.  and then i havent had to do one since.  anyway, this is kinda offtopic06:24
bluefoxicyyes I was waiting for the topic to go back to normal06:24
Hobbseeheh06:25
Hobbseethere is such a thing as normal?06:25
Hobbseeand why am i still up?06:25
bluefoxicybecause you aren't asleep06:25
Hobbseei should be though.  06:25
bluefoxicydrink some catnip tea?06:26
Hobbseenight all.06:26
Hobbseenah, mroe that i'd just get yelled at a lot.  nothing major.06:26
bluefoxicyheh no I mean it's a nerve relaxant in humans, it makes you sleep.06:26
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bluefoxicyanyway what were we talking about, meetings... udebs.... 06:27
Hobbseeyes, meetings06:27
bluefoxicyyes but you were talking about meetings and you're about to pass out06:27
bluefoxicyso that topic is kind of dead.06:27
Hobbseeno, not about to pass out - not too dizzy yet.06:28
pittifabbione: can you put the wvstreams diff.gz/dsc somewhere for me to download?06:29
Hobbseepitti: did you want me to send you the debdiff?06:29
pittiHobbsee: between current Debian and your merged version would be nice, yes06:29
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Hobbseepitti: you're pitti@ubuntu.com?06:30
pittiHobbsee: yes06:30
Hobbseewhat the...that doesnt look right06:31
dholbachKamion: you merged gparted! woohooo! :-)06:32
Kamionaye, god knows whether it'll work06:32
Hobbseepitti: http://rafb.net/paste/results/ABpbzC62.html06:32
KamionI started it up and played a bit, though not in installer mode06:32
Hobbseehey dholbach 06:32
dholbachhey Hobbsee06:32
pittiHobbsee: that's base to current ubuntu; I need current Debian to your merged version :)06:33
Hobbseeah crud, i knew something had screwed up there!06:33
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Petarishrm, maybe I can run it on my Gentoo box instead06:35
PetarisI'll need to add the drivers of course06:35
Kamiondholbach: wasn't so much a merge as a recreate-from-scratch, btw06:36
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Hobbseepitti: that look better?  http://rafb.net/paste/results/QLEbtu85.html06:36
fabbionepitti: 4.2.2-1ubuntu2 4.2.2-2.1 4.2.2-1 <- wvstream.. same upstream version06:36
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dholbachKamion: i noticed - i hope it wasn't too painful06:37
fabbionepitti: if the patch doesn't do i have the diff and the dsc06:38
Hobbseehehe, thanks fabbione 06:38
pittiHobbsee: it'll do, thanks06:38
=== Hobbsee really only has 3 ways to do that patch - one surely is right :P
Hobbseeor would be if i was awake06:38
Hobbseenight all!06:39
Kamiondholbach: could have been worse ...06:42
Kamion$ zcat gparted_0.1-0ubuntu9.diff.gz | wc -l06:42
Kamion192706:42
Kamion$ dscdiff gparted_0.2.5-1.1.dsc gparted_0.2.5-1.1ubuntu1.dsc | wc -l06:42
Kamion90406:42
ograyou dropped the 1000 lines that made it work ?  :)06:43
fabbioneseb128: are you still editing the DistroMeeting page?06:43
seb128fabbione: I've clicked on that page like 10 secondes ago, so yep, let me time to commit the change06:44
fabbioneseb128: sure :)06:44
seb128people are wiki addict, that's incredible06:44
seb128I edit a wiki page like once a month06:44
fabbioneseb128: that's my first edit in AGEEES on that wiki06:44
seb128and every time after 10 seconds somebody ping me to know if I'm still working on it :p06:44
seb128me too :)06:44
seb128fabbione: done06:44
sivangre06:45
fabbioneseb128: thanks :)06:45
seb128np ;)06:45
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jdubseb128: !!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111106:47
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seb128jdub: gnome-vfs on dbus now? ;)06:49
jdub:-)06:50
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seb128jdub: lot of dbus love this week, between gnome-vfs, gnome-settings-daemon, gnome-session ;)06:51
jdub:)06:51
pittifabbione: bah, Hobbsee's patch is still broken; can you put diff.gz/dsc somewhere? I don't have time any more to wait for the next cron.daily06:51
fabbionescp wvstreams_4.2.2-2.1ubuntu1.d* chinstrap:.06:52
fabbionepitti: they are there06:52
sivangseb128: could this love have anything to od with unloaidng applets, ALT-TAB broken, CTRL-ALT + arrows broken etc? :)06:53
sivang(or lack, there of ;-) )06:53
pittifabbione: merci06:54
seb128sivang: no, applets have nothing to do with gnome-session or gnome-settings-daemon and the new gnome-vfs has just been uploaded06:54
seb128neither with keyboard06:54
ograsivang, the applets are 2.14 ... wait for the updated ones :)06:58
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sivangogra: or I'll grab the src pkg from ftp and build myself until it's built on LP, I am so used to ALT-F2 :)06:59
ograALT-F2 are surely not the applets :)06:59
ograthats either gnome-panel or gnome-menus07:00
dholbachgnome-panel07:00
ograAmaranth, haha, i just checked out the latest revisions for willowng 07:00
ogra"almost look like a real project" is a nice changelog entry :)07:01
Amaranth:D07:01
Amaranthit has an installer07:02
Amaranthalthough if you install it it probably won't run, i don't have path stuff setup07:02
ograand a .desktop file, wohoo07:02
ogradoesnt matter, lets see that we get a package in asap 07:03
ograi.e. tomorrow is UVF ...07:03
Keybukwhich means upload must happen today07:03
Amaranthso if i release a new version a week from now it doesn't get in?07:03
Keybukit doesn't get in without an exception, no07:04
ograAmaranth, no, since its developed for us 07:04
ograbut the initial package should be in the archive before UVF07:04
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Amaranthok07:04
Amaranthwell, i don't know how to package a daemon so... :)07:05
ograi prepared some package stuff already, just havent pushed it up, wait a sec07:05
Amaranthok07:05
ograthats all stuff we can solve later ... for now it should just be there :)07:05
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ograAmaranth, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/willowng/ merge that ...07:14
ograshould have basic packaging stuff07:14
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Keybukok, I've switched MoM's status reporting to UVF mode now07:24
Keybukso any new merges that show up with the next cron.daily are obvious, and we can easily decide whether to consider them outstanding or not07:24
Amaranthogra: that's a stock dh_make run :P07:25
Amaranthi can make a cdbs package07:26
ograbah07:27
ograbut as you like07:27
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ograAmaranth, its your project, i'm only helping :)07:27
Amaranthheh07:27
Amaranththe only thing i need help with is the init script and /etc/defaults stuff07:27
ograso make your decision sinc you will maintina it 07:27
Amaranthand iptables07:27
ogragod, i should learn to type07:28
ograiptables is for later 07:28
ogramake it cdbs then :)=07:29
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bddebianHeya folks07:34
jjessehiya bddebian07:35
bddebianHi jjesse07:35
bddebianSorr for the OT question but any PKI experts around I could talk to offline?07:35
Burgworkbddebian, PKI as in gpg keys?07:37
bddebianWell digital signatures, yes07:37
Burgworkhmm, maybe Kinnison?07:38
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bddebianBTW, hi Burgwork07:46
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rodarvusmdz: how many hours do we have before UVF?08:09
mdzrodarvus: unspecified08:09
rodarvus*nods*08:09
mdzrodarvus: roughy end of the day tomorrow08:09
mdzroughly08:09
rodarvusahn, plenty of time, then08:09
Keybukmdz: let's not make it end of day tomorrow08:09
rodarvusi'm build-testing mesa right now, but was worried that UVF was in practice by midnight today08:10
Keybuklet's make it 0000UTC08:10
Keybukend-of-day-tomorrow means we'll take in two more debian days08:10
rodarvusKeybuk: thats what I'm afraid of :D08:10
janimorodarvus, mdz :  I have talked to ogra earlier about edubuntu-xfce. Does it necessarily need new seeds, is a simple metapackage to cover xfce core apps not enough?08:11
mdzKeybuk: we can shut off the sync prior to UVF08:12
mdzI assumed rodarvus wanted to know how much time he had to get merges and new versions in08:12
hungerIs it known that gsfonts-x11 and xfonts-intl-european are broken in edgy right now?08:12
rodarvusmdz: right08:13
rodarvusmesa just finished building, I'll finish tests now08:13
Keybukmdz: we can't shut off the mom merge sync though08:13
rodarvusso hopefully even midnight today won't be a problem08:13
Keybukwe're in the best situation _now_ merge and sync wise08:14
KeybukI'd rather we looked at what comes in from Debian in an hour's time, and make a judgement call then whether to declare us frozen or take the new day08:14
fabbionehunger: yes. all X fonts are broken atm08:14
mdzKeybuk: sure08:15
gnomefreakthey are?08:15
mdzbut I'm happy for rodarvus to merge mesa tomorrow morning08:15
gnomefreakah i see the new updates nvm08:15
mdzto upload it, that is08:15
mdzfabbione: upgrading considered harmful?08:15
fabbionegnomefreak: no, but given that nobody either read topic or understand what is happening, it doesn't really make any different if they are not08:16
janimois bumping our version to match debian's even though we have different packages considered a good thing, just to get the packages off the list?08:16
fabbionemdz: no X upgrade is safe.08:16
gnomefreakfabbione: true08:16
Keybukmdz: yup, it doesn't seem sensible to declare that any outstanding merges have missed the boat08:16
fabbionemdz: only fonts will be holded-back.08:16
mdzfabbione: "no, it is safe to upgrade X" or "no X upgrade is ever safe"?08:16
=== gnomefreak hasnt had an issue in a while other than the gnome-applets
Keybukhowever it does seem sensible to draw the line between outstanding merges and "new stuff"08:16
fabbionemdz: the former.08:16
mdzok08:16
Keybuktoday is good because Debian is conveniently rather switched off <g>08:16
fabbioneKeybuk: mind to check if the fonts stuff Kamion/Mith uploaded are building or need a kick?08:17
Keybukfabbione: latest by-hand publisher run just finished08:17
Keybukabout to kick the build sequencer08:17
fabbionemdz: the -driver -> -video transition is completed08:17
fabbionemdz: all stuff except secondary apps have been merged. 08:17
fabbionemdz: the list was just too long for 2 weeks of work..08:18
Keybukhttps://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/22783408:18
Keybukfabbione: ^ built08:18
fabbionemdz: and fonts are sorting themselves out in these cron.keybuk08:18
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Keybukhttps://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html08:19
Keybuk^ that is now accurate08:19
mdznice08:22
gnomefreakedgy is gonna have ff 1.5.0.4 as final?08:22
KeybukColin's asked for a UVF exception for installation-guide given it's doc only08:23
Keybukjbailey is doing initramfs-tools at the moment, and should be uploaded today08:23
Keybukrodarvus is doing mesa right now08:23
KeybukI'm going to do n-m in a bit08:24
Keybukg-p-m is allegedly "tricky" and involves an upstream version update08:24
Keybukmvo is on holiday, and the only person who knows gdebi well enough08:24
Keybukenigmail was a messy one, and really needs someone who knows Mozilla stuff08:25
Keybukxfce4-* no idea, ask janimo :)08:25
janimoworking on it now08:26
janimojust asked a few lines above if it's ok to bump the version no to match debian's even though we are not that much in sync08:26
sivangKeybuk: there's also gdebi and enigmail08:26
Keybuksivang: I mentioned those above08:27
Keybukjanimo: I've tended not to (cf. bootchart) ... it's enough to know we're not keeping in sync08:27
mdzseb128: gnome-applets ftbfs08:28
mdzhttp://librarian.launchpad.net/3387554/buildlog_ubuntu-edgy-i386.gnome-applets_2.15.1.1-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz08:28
fabbionemdz: i will also need an exception for the redhat cluster suite as i noted also for the meeting update08:30
fabbionemdz: the stuff is changed too much upstream08:30
sivangKeybuk: oh right, scary merges...08:31
Keybukfabbione: source package name changed in Debian?08:31
fabbioneKeybuk: it doesn't exist in Debian08:32
fabbioneKeybuk: they have some (unmaintained) bits in Debian08:32
Keybukhmm?08:33
Keybukthere's a redhat-cluster package in Debian08:33
Keybukwhich has roughly the same set of binaries as our redhat-cluster-suite08:33
fabbionethe what?08:33
Keybukhttp://packages.debian.org/src:redhat-cluster08:34
Keybukeven the package descriptions roughly match ours08:34
fabbioneKeybuk: i am ready to bet it's a package that Debian stole from me and forked08:35
fabbionewithout even telling me08:35
fabbioneit's not the first or the last time i see that happening on these kind of stuff08:35
Keybukmight be worth comparing them08:35
jdubhaha08:35
fabbioneKeybuk: already did08:36
fabbioneit's the old -stable suite we had in dapper08:36
fabbioneand highly buggy btw08:36
Keybukso it should stay blacklisted?08:36
fabbionewaldi didn't add a lot of the fixes i did with upstream08:37
fabbioneyes please08:37
Keybukshould we not change our source/binary package names to match, so it has the potential to be sync'd later?08:37
Keybukand just keep our version > ?08:37
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fabbioneKeybuk: i won't bother.. their package is trash08:38
Keybuk*nods*08:40
Keybukright, gonna get some food, bbiab08:40
ograKeybuk, i'm on g-p-m (since yesterday already08:40
ogra)08:40
ograso dont bother08:40
fabbioneKeybuk: clearly that package was never tested at all :) i can tell you from some stuff in there ;)08:40
janimojdub: hi, did you manage to get any info on the GnomeClient API future at guadec?08:46
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rodarvusmerged mesa is available at -> http://people.ubuntu.com/~rodarvus/mesa/ - it would be nice if someone could review this merge before I upload it08:49
rodarvusdebdiff from debian is http://people.ubuntu.com/~rodarvus/mesa/mesa_6.4.1-0ubuntu8-to-mesa_6.4.2-1ubuntu1.patch.gz08:49
rodarvusdebdiff from ubuntu is http://people.ubuntu.com/~rodarvus/mesa/mesa_6.4.2-1-to-mesa_6.4.2-1ubuntu1.patch.gz08:50
rodarvus(second one is rather large, though, as its a different upstream version)08:50
seb128mdz: thank you, I will fix that08:54
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mdzseb128: is there any information I should file with my gaim bugs?08:56
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seb128mdz: I don' think so, if upstreams need something I'm sure they will ask09:01
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rodarvusfabbione reviewed mesa (there was one Conflicts/Replaces/Provides missing for mesa-swrast-source -> mesa-swx11-source)09:05
rodarvusfabbione: thanks!09:05
rodarvusI'll upload mesa *now*09:05
rodarvus:)09:05
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profoX`good day09:07
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profoX`where can I find the stuff for the on screen display when I press the volume up/down button on my laptop ? I need to change something there for IBM laptops (because they have hardwaredriven volume adjustment)09:08
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xpotatoi have a thinkpad at home, but i've never fiddled with the volume control buttons with ubuntu09:10
fabbionerodarvus: nice...09:10
fabbioneok i call this a day09:11
xpotatoprofoX`: try http://ibm-acpi.sourceforge.net/09:11
fabbionegood night09:11
rodarvusfabbione: good night09:11
sivangnight fabbione 09:11
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profoX`xpotato: i have that, by default, but that doesn't take care of things on the ubuntu side, in acpi everything works perfectly, but i want it to work like it has to in ubuntu so i'd like to create a patch, but i don't know where to find the thing that drives the on screen display for the volume etc. (and i will also add one for brightness for IBM)09:12
xpotatoprofoX`: oh...well you're farther along than I thought you were09:13
xpotatodoes anyone know the status on the development of the apache 2.2.x packages for debian?09:14
Keybukthe GNOME bit is just gnome-settings-daemon somewhere09:14
Keybukit responds to key press events09:14
xpotatoor ubuntu*09:14
ograxfonts-scalable postinst warning: update-fonts-scale --x11r7-layout Type1 failed; font directory data may not be up to date09:14
ograusage error: unrecognized option09:14
ograUsage: update-fonts-alias DIRECTORY ...09:14
ogra       update-fonts-alias { -h | --help }09:14
sivangogra: I got that today for gsfonts-x1109:14
profoX`xpotato: yea... i guess no one knows where i would need to look ?09:14
ograshouldnt that depend on the right version to have --x11r7-layout ?09:15
rodarvusogra: all font packages are failing right now09:15
mswKeybuk: the volume/brightness bits on thinkpad aren't keysyms09:15
rodarvusMithrandir already uploaded xfonts-utils09:15
rodarvuswhich should take care of this09:15
rodarvusbut its not in the archive09:15
ograrodarvus, why ? i thought that why we waited with the fonts09:15
ograah, k09:15
rodarvusogra: font packages triggered this before than expected, due to dh_xinstallfonts (or someting like this, I forgot now)09:16
ogradh_installxfonts, yep09:16
xpotatoprofoX`: which thinkpad do you have?09:17
profoX`xpotato: T4009:18
rodarvusKeybuk: most of my xserver-xorg-input-* builds are not completed in sparc|powerpc|ia64 - and they have been uploaded ~24 hours ago09:19
rodarvusare xserver-xorg-input-* so low priority to build, or anything happened to the build daemons?09:20
xpotatoprofoX`: you may have already seen this, but here's some more information on the T40 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/ThinkpadT4009:21
xpotatoprofoX`: if I was at home, I might be able to help you out a little more09:21
xpotatodoes anyone have any idea on the status of the apache 2.2.x packages?09:23
xpotatoor if there are going to be any packages?09:23
profoX`xpotato: they didnt even make a note about the hardware volume09:24
profoX`I just want to improve ubuntu so that it works like it actually should when edgy is here ;)09:24
profoX`(yea, it is starting to annoy me on my laptop :X)09:25
rodarvusoh, btw - the mesa upload has some (four, I think) new packages09:25
xpotatoprofoX`: about a quarter of the way down the page: Hardware volume switch - Tested OK09:25
rodarvusI suppose they'll go through NEW, right?09:25
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Keybukrodarvus: yeah, they will09:28
mdzI thought pitti fixed python-jabber09:29
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profoX`xpotato: that doesn't mean anything, yes, the "buttons" do work, but ubuntu doesn't handle it like it should, most volume switches just send a command to raise or lower volume to the software, but in IBM Thinkpad it changes volume itself (from 0 to 15) so sometimes I see volume: 0 in alsa and I still hear sound, and stuff like that, in this case alsa volume and hardware volume should be seperated09:30
mdzprofoX`: bug 4623009:31
UbugtuMalone bug 46230 in hotkey-setup "ThinkPad T42 mute button does double duty" [Low,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/4623009:31
xpotatoprofoX`: sorry, I just realized what you were looking for; I had that same problem in Mac OS X when I tried it out on my thinkpad (volume could be set to 0 and I'd still hear sound, hardware keys did not bring up the OSD like it should)09:32
profoX`lol rejected so i can work on it anyway09:32
profoX`mdz: like i said, the hardware should be seperated from the software, that causes this issue too09:33
mdzprofoX`: you'll notice that I reported the bug and said the same thing09:34
profoX`I just have to patch the code that brings up the OSD to read in the volume from /proc/acpi/ibm/volume if its there09:34
mdzprofoX`: and now you know who to talk to about it, and where to follow up09:34
profoX`mdz: yes thanks i'll read it in a second, it's in my next vdesktop :)09:34
mdzrodarvus: it looks like x11proto-print needs review for main09:35
mdzrodarvus: unless we can move libxp to universe, which would be better09:36
Kamionogra: xfonts-utils didn't make it through quite as quickly as I expected it to, due to the soyuz breakage09:36
Kamionbut never mind, it'll clear up09:36
mdzI think it's deprecated upstream09:36
Kamionmdz: libxp is explicitly seeded for third-party apps IIRC09:36
ograKamion, ta ... g-p-m will keep me busy enough :)09:36
Kamionalso a few stray dependencies elsewhere09:36
mdzKamion: yeah, Java I think09:36
Kamionogra: a versioned depend would be correct, I agree09:36
ograyeps, but now we have the breakage anyway :)09:37
mdzI think it's only java, and we do have a better answer for that these days09:37
mdzwell, for sun09:37
mdznot IBM09:37
Kamionogra: the new xfonts-utils is in the archive now09:38
rodarvusmdz: x11proto-print was not done by me, but I can take a look at this issue later today09:39
rodarvus(in a few minutes, actually)09:39
mdzrodarvus: libxp depends on it now09:39
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mdzKeybuk: what are 'new merges'?09:45
Keybukmdz: ok, so this is the "post-UVF mode"09:45
rodarvusmdz: I'll take a look at it now09:45
Keybukupdated is as before, packages which have had an upload to edgy and where the Debian version is still higher09:45
Keybuknew are packages which have not been uploaded to edgy yet, and where the Debian version is higher09:46
rodarvusKeybuk: do you know if is there any problem with the upload queue? I haven't received any email feedback from my mesa upload (and it happened ~40 minutes ago)09:46
Keybuk(where uploaded to edgy does not include syncs, btw)09:46
mdzok, that makes sense except for the bit where UVF hasn't actually started yet ;-)09:46
rodarvusnot even a rejection email09:46
Keybukand outstanding merges is as new, except driven by a text file list09:46
Keybukright, see ^^09:46
slomo_rodarvus: uploaded with "unstable" as distribution by accident maybe? at least i never got a rejection mail for that in the past ;)09:46
KeybukI switched on the mode early so it's obvious which things turn up when Debian's cron.daily runs09:47
mdzrodarvus: it failed09:47
Keybukand then we can decide whether to take them or not09:47
Kamionslomo_ is correct09:47
Kamionhttp://librarian.launchpad.net/3390302/goyJX0fqm6A5LxH4KXYqEEUNKsJ.txt09:47
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mdzrodarvus: Distribution: unstable09:47
=== rodarvus sighs
Keybuknew merges show up under "new", and if we decide that we want it for UVF, I'll just add it to outstanding-merges.txt09:48
rodarvusmdz: thanks09:48
mdzis there a bug open about the fact that soyuz doesn't send mail in that case?09:48
mdzslomo_: ^?09:48
sivangmdz: I'm checking09:48
Kamionmdz: yes09:48
KamionI whined about it ages ago09:48
Kamionhttps://launchpad.net/products/qprocd/+bug/3596509:49
Keybukthere did used to be a mail09:49
UbugtuMalone bug 35965 in qprocd "exceptions in process-upload not communicated to uploader" [Medium,Confirmed]  09:49
Keybukbut then they got rid of it09:49
Keybukyou used to get an "upload made it out of main loop" mail09:49
KamionKeybuk: really? AFAIK Soyuz has never mailed for that since it went into production09:49
Kamioninteresting09:49
Keybukthey disabled them because they contained python exception tracebacks or something09:50
Keybukor maybe it was because they didn't contain any useful exception traceback09:50
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pygisivang, poke? :P09:52
rodarvusKeybuk: any info on the xserver-xorg-input-* issue I mentioned above?09:53
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Keybukrodarvus: could you be more specific?09:53
givrehi guys, i have an urgent request to ask, i don't know how to put so i just ask it there. It's could be great if you could change the description of the server install CD09:53
Keybukie. give me a proper source package name, for a start ;)09:53
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givremany people are confuse by the description:Server install CDThe server install CD allows you to install Ubuntu permanently on a computer.09:54
KamionKeybuk: for the record I'd like new mdcfg + partman-lvm + partman-md from this Debian cron.daily09:54
rodarvussure09:54
Kamiongivre: file a bug on launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-cdimage/+filebug09:54
Kamiongivre: also explain why this is urgent09:54
KeybukKamion: *nods*09:54
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rodarvushttps://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/xserver-xorg-input-spaceorb/1:1.0.0.5-2ubuntu1 , https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/xserver-xorg-input-summa/1:1.0.0.5-2ubuntu1 and https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/xserver-xorg-input-tek4957/1:1.0.0.5-2ubuntu1 , for instance09:54
Keybukright :)09:54
KeybukI picked -mouse and that was up to date09:54
Keybuk*shrug*09:55
Keybukit's just not built on the three slowest buildds09:55
rodarvus-mouse was done by Mithrandir two days ago :)09:55
Keybukand they have relatively low priorities09:55
rodarvusright, that was my question :)09:55
Kamionaww, 4/5 successfully built for debian-installer09:55
Keybukurgently needed?09:55
Kamionclose but no cigar09:55
givreand so lot's of people come in the forum why they don't have a gui after the install09:55
rodarvusall xserver-xorg-input-* appear to have incredibly slow priority :)09:55
Kamionnot bad considering I only tested 1/509:55
rodarvusKeybuk: no, not really09:55
givre*asking09:55
Keybukrodarvus: that's probably why they have a low priority then <g>09:56
Kamiongivre: ok, file a bug and I can change that09:56
Keybuksparc is about the slowest buildd (even slower than ia64)09:56
rodarvusheh09:56
Keybukand also those three were the ones that were down longest during the kernel updates09:56
givreok, thanks  you09:56
givreand thank you for all, you are doing a great job ;)09:56
Keybukrodarvus: in general, as long as the build is "Needs building" (and not "No build info recorded") and https://launchpad.net/+builds doesn't show any errors for the buildd, it's in the queue somewhere09:57
rodarvus*nods*09:57
Keybukhttps://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+builds?build_state=pending09:57
rodarvussparc currently has 631 packages on the queue09:57
Keybuk^ top priority in that list is 105509:57
Keybukthose have priority of 355  (meaning no real dependencies on them)09:58
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rodarvusmesa upload was accepted directly into Accepted09:59
rodarvusshouldn't it go into NEW, due to the new packages it builds?10:00
Kamionrodarvus: source was, binaries will hit NEW10:00
rodarvusoh, good10:00
rodarvusKamion: and I suppose the other binaries are held until these packages in NEW are accepted?10:00
Kamionrodarvus: nope10:01
Kamioneach upload is independent10:01
rodarvusright10:01
Kamionas in, each .changes file10:01
Kamionthe test is "does this .changes file contain components not currently in the overrides?"10:02
rodarvusthe reason I was wondering is because subpackages inside the same source can depend on packages still on NEW10:04
Keybukright10:04
rodarvus(and thus leave the archive in an inconsistent state for awhile)10:04
Keybukthose will just dep-wait on the buildds10:04
Keybuk(assuming build-dep)10:04
Kamionor be uninstallable for a bit, depending10:04
Keybukor as you say, leave the archive uninstallable10:04
Keybukbut that's ok10:04
rodarvusyup10:04
rodarvusone feature I'd like to see, in the future, is the ability to "automagically rebuild" packages that depend, or build-depend on another package (such as a library) - on request, of course10:05
Keybukin practice, this isn't much of a problem10:05
Keybukrodarvus: 9/10 they need more than just a rebuild10:06
rodarvussay, I uploaded a new, incompatible version of mesa, and when it is uploaded and built, go to some launchpad page, and instruct the packages to rebuild themselves10:06
rodarvusKeybuk: I don't think its 9/10, but still, you have a valid point10:06
Keybukin particular, it's usually wise to add/increment version in the build-depend line to make sure you hit dep-wait or build against the thing you actually meant10:06
Keybukand, in true honesty, if the package doesn't work just as well with the new as well as the old, the chances are there's a code change required10:07
Keybukwe used to do "meta-builds" at Demon for this kind of thing, and in the end abandoned it because they were nearly always useless10:07
rodarvusheh :)10:08
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Keybukif the library doesn't change soname, the packages don't need to rebuilt10:08
Keybukif the library does change soname, the packages almost always need code changed ... after all, there was a reason the soname changed10:09
Keybukbbiab - asda trip10:09
rodarvusKeybuk: tell that to freetype developers :)10:09
msw(and tons of other people who don't manage their DSO ABIs)10:09
rodarvusbut in general, I agree with you10:09
rodarvusmsw: right10:09
mswwhich is one reason our (rpath) standard build mode is to build everything from scratch -- a full bootstrap build10:10
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FunnyLookinHatmdz, You around?  Was hoping you could tell me how to find a contact address for Christian Marillat?  his launchpad account profiles are a bit empty  ^_^;;10:39
jdubmarillat@debian.org10:40
FunnyLookinHatjdub, thanks!10:40
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seb128FunnyLookinHat: what do you want to mail him?10:45
FunnyLookinHatseb128, it's concerning rebuilding the packages for MythTV.  mdz passed his name along in a chain of comments today on a bug related to the issue.10:47
seb128ok, because he doesn't work on Ubuntu afaik10:48
FunnyLookinHatseb128, that's what I thought  ^_^;;   But I figured mdz knew more than me10:48
seb128and he's not always nice about bugs or by mail ... just so you know10:48
jdubtake a kevlar vest10:48
jduband maybe some rations10:48
FunnyLookinHatlol10:49
seb128FunnyLookinHat: good luck ;)10:51
FunnyLookinHatLol he just replied10:51
FunnyLookinHat"10:51
FunnyLookinHatI'm sorry but I'm not the responsible for Ubuntu packages, even if my10:51
FunnyLookinHatname is in the Maintainer field."10:51
seb128you will need some :p10:51
FunnyLookinHatLooks like I'm on my own, w00t.10:51
seb128ah, he has been nice ;)10:51
crimsunFunnyLookinHat: coordinate with the motu-media team10:51
Keybukmsw: you don't have mirrors :)10:52
jdubyeah man, you got out lucky10:52
Keybuka full rebuild to us is (in the worlds of the great elmo) "HERE'S JOHNNY!"10:52
jdublast time i mailed marillat it was like apocalypse now10:52
mswKeybuk: sure we do!10:52
jdubbut they were *MY* ears he was wearing10:52
FunnyLookinHatcrimsun, motu-media...   ok, sounds good.  I have to still officially try to join the team.10:52
mswKeybuk: ;-)10:52
Keybukmsw: how do you cope with the full rebuild pumping gigabytes a day in their direction?10:52
mswKeybuk: one sec10:52
seb128jdub: did you mail him about GNOME, Debian, and GNOME Team? :)10:53
mswKeybuk: the mirror process goes through the same changeset process that clients use to apply relative updates10:54
mswKeybuk: so, when we do a rebuild of the same software, generally very very little changes.10:54
Keybukmsw: it's still got to be a large churn though, no?10:54
jdubseb128: yeah, back then ;)10:54
Keybukmsw: a library change like libc6 is going to affect change binary on the system10:54
mswKeybuk: we've done a rebuild and had, oh, maybe 300 MiB of new contents to push out10:54
seb128he sent some really non-friendly mails around that time10:54
mswKeybuk: true, true10:54
seb128Keybuk: could you get control-center out of NEW? It adds a gnome-control-center-dev new binary package which is required by gnome-session to build10:57
Keybukseb128: it's only NEW for i386?10:57
seb128Keybuk: the -dev is arch: all (it's only a .h and a .pc)10:58
Keybukyeah10:59
seb128Keybuk: dunno if that class it as NEW on i386 only10:59
Keybukit does10:59
KeybukSoyuz doesn't know about _all, it thinks they're i38610:59
ogra_seb128, what was the command to clear out gconf user settings ? gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /apps/gnome-power-manager seems not to suffice10:59
seb128ogra_: it should ...11:00
ogra_hmm11:00
seb128ogra_: rm -rf .gconf/apps/gnome-power-manager and send a SIGHUP to gconfd-2 then11:00
ogra_then i probably have cruft in the schema ...11:00
=== ogra_ tries
seb128ogra_: that's easy other way, use gconf-editor, go on the key and unset it .. unset == revert to system default11:01
ogra_yes, but it seems theer are some keys without owner in the g-p-m settings for me ... 11:02
ogra_urgh11:02
seb128what?11:02
ogra_intrestingly they work, even they are not assigned to g-p-m11:02
ogra_i just dimmed my display to 011:03
seb128a key doesn't need to be "assigned" to work11:03
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seb128everybody is authorized to read a gconf key11:03
seb128it's not only the app owning the key11:03
ogra_yes, but usually the keys from a schema are assigned to an app11:04
seb128yeah, if the schemas is correctly done11:04
ogra_(key owner field that is)11:04
seb128that's declared by the schemas itself11:04
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seb128$ xvfb-run echo11:04
seb128kill: 158: No such process11:04
seb128bouh11:04
ogra_ok, then i'm fine, i was suspecting old keys lying around11:04
seb128xvfb-run breaks pygobject build11:05
ogra_but it seems they are valid just the schema is buggy11:05
seb128ogra_: look to the schemas file:11:05
seb128    <schema>11:05
seb128      <key>/schemas/apps/gedit-2/preferences/editor/font/use_default_font</key>11:05
seb128      <applyto>/apps/gedit-2/preferences/editor/font/use_default_font</applyto>11:05
seb128      <owner>gedit</owner>11:05
seb128by example11:05
seb128do they use <owner>  for it ?11:06
Keybukseb128: random question you may know the answer to11:07
Keybukdoes Debian's hal daemon run as a different user to ours?11:07
seb128Keybuk: no idea, would be a question for pitti11:08
seb128changelog mentions "Rename system user 'hal' to 'haldaemon' to be compatible with upstream"11:08
seb128and apparently the Debian changelog has no such change11:08
seb128looks like they are different yep11:09
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Keybukright11:10
Keybukjust thought you might more familar than me11:10
seb128not really no, pitti does a good job for it so I didn't have to look to hal for a while now ;)11:11
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seb128s/for it/with it11:11
Keybukgiven I officially no longer care about n-m, I'm almost completely reverting to the Debian packaging11:12
Keybukwhich is made somewhat easy by the fact they've almost completely stolen our changes anyway :)11:12
Keybukjust needed to work around the whole netdev/hal/haldaemon thing11:12
seb128ok :)11:13
jdubKeybuk: because you think it's cock, or you don't want to deal with it?11:13
Keybukjdub: because I think it's cock at the moment11:14
jdubheh11:14
Keybukright now it's cock that's covered in cheese11:14
Keybukbut once it's cleaned up, and had some time to grow, it'll be good cock11:15
Keybukmy general n-m feeling is "it doesn't work yet, but one day will be the one true network stack"11:15
mdzimplying that cheese-covered cock is bad cock?11:15
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jdubKeybuk: i guess that using 'cock' as an adjective can be ambiguous in certain contexts... ;)11:17
ogra_pitti, do we plan to support polkitd in hal ? 11:18
jdubfabbione: I WANT UBUNTU ON THUMPER!!!111 :-)11:18
jdubfabbione: only i also want zfs on ubuntu :-(11:19
ogra_(for edgy that is=11:19
ogra_)11:19
pygijdub, do it !!! :P11:19
ogra_zfs ? 11:20
ogra_zoom filesystem - for extremly small files ? 11:20
jdubogra_: http://www.google.com.au/search?q=zfs+filetype%3Apdf11:20
jdubread that11:20
pygiogra_, Solaris ^_^11:20
jdub(but read the pdf, not google's html)11:21
ogra_hmm, snapshots with rollback builtin ...11:22
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jdubKeybuk: so n-m in edgy should suck less on b0rky atheros (with rml's patch)?11:23
pittiogra_: this policy kit seems utterly crackful to me, and there is still some upstream discussion about it11:24
mjg59edgy's going with madwifi-ng anyway11:24
Keybukjdub: hmm?  we always had rml's patch11:24
pittiogra_: I would like to postpone it to edgy+111:24
Keybukthat's why it doesn't use teeth when it sucks on dapper11:25
jdubhrm, i thought rml did some funky "don't scan when associated" foo11:25
Keybukit scans about once a minute11:25
Keybukrather than every 10s11:25
jdubpitti: oh?11:25
ogra_pitti, seems new g-p-m somewhat relies on its existence 11:25
Keybukwhat's polkitd?11:25
jdubdavidz's policy kit11:26
ogra_enbles hal to do evil things11:26
jdubfor better google words11:26
mjg59Provides a framework for providing fine-grained access to hal objects and so on11:26
seb128gnome-system-tools is going to use it too11:26
ogra_oh, really ? 11:26
mjg59Also deals with the problem of keeping status when no user is logged in11:26
ogra_in edgy already ? 11:26
seb128might be11:27
seb128carlos showed some code during GUADEC using it11:27
gnomefreakwhat version ill let you know if it in edgy11:27
=== jdub wishes harder for gnome-vfs builds to be complete
mjg59We probably want it in edgy, otherwise the divergence to FC6 is going to be irritating11:27
pittiseb128, ogra_: <rant> why do these things rely on features which aren't even in a stable hal release yet???</rant>11:28
ogra_mjg59, it would make a painful g-p-m merge delightful11:28
Keybukpitti: "shiny"11:28
ogra_pitti, i didnt make the decision11:28
pittiogra_: packaging and auditing policy kit daemon and all the crack in it, and packaging hal cvs head is not a simple task either11:28
seb128pitti: because they are not stable versions neither?: p11:28
jdubpitti: upstream sets the agenda :)11:28
mjg59pitti: hal should be releasing in the next few days11:29
ogra_+and i'm sure i could work around it by getting Kinnisons patch in, but that means i'll have to revert parts of the code to the former version11:29
pittiwell, if we need it, and you want me to, I'll package it11:29
pittibut so far noone told me that it's necessary, so I didn't :)11:29
seb128pitti: by the time GNOME 2.16 is available a new hal will probably be too11:29
=== jdub blinks.
jdubThe following NEW packages will be installed: pbbuttonsd11:31
pittijdub: for apple intel11:31
jdubpitti: oh! of course. BONG!11:31
ogra_well, that would leave us not much time for testing11:31
ogra_jdub, yeah, for your macbook :P11:31
ogra_(which you dont own yet, but we install in advance :P )11:31
jdubi hope pbbuttonsd is a no-op on my machine tho ;)11:32
jdubyay gnome-vfs packages11:32
mjg59pbbuttonsd is needed for apple intels?11:34
mjg59Really?11:34
mjg59How does that work?11:34
ogra_it was included because of them ...11:37
ogra_(no idea if its needed :) )11:37
ogra_(in the i386 seed that is)11:37
=== mjg59 boggles
mjg59Doesn't it only interface with /dev/pmu?11:38
ograi think so 11:38
mjg59Who asked for it to be added to the seed?11:38
ogrado macbooks have that ? 11:38
mjg59No11:38
ograheh11:38
ograno idea who asked for it ... i think Kamion added it11:39
mjg59There's a completely different interface to the hardware11:39
mjg59Kamion: ^?11:39
ograintrestingly there is no changelog entry in the seeds11:41
Kamionmjg59: we didn't explicitly add it; we just never made it architecture-dependent11:44
ogramdz, oh, wow, thanks for adding mknbi to supported :)11:44
Kamionso when pbbuttonsd started to be built on i386, it automatically appeared11:44
jdubheh11:45
Kamionmjg59: if you think it shouldn't be there (though perhaps investigating the code first would be a good plan?), feel free to make a seed commit to change ' * pbbuttonsd' to ' * pbbuttonsd [powerpc] '11:45
mdzKamion: surely it should be Architecture: powerpc if it can't work with macbooks11:46
Kamionmdz: it was, but was then deliberately made Architecture: powerpc i386 by the Debian maintainer11:46
mdzogra: I didn't want it to be forgotten, since it didn't get a spec11:46
mdzogra: please get someone to test it11:46
KamionI assumed he vaguely knew what he was doing and haven't yet got round to investigating11:46
Kamionthere was a changelog comment about it11:47
Kamionogra: I did not add it, for the record11:47
mdzthere was no human involvement11:47
Kamionexcept insofar as I probably added the original seed entry11:47
Kamionbut that was before germinate had architecture-specific seed entries anyway11:47
ograKamion, yes, i see that now11:47
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mdzKamion: how far out of sync is it possible for anastacia and your germinate-output to be?11:50
mdzwhen did ndiswrapper-utils move from main to universe?11:50
ogramdz, our mknbi is broken currently but jammcq and me are on it11:51
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ogramdz, when Keybuk demoted it because of security ambiguity (as he said)11:52
mdzKeybuk: ?11:52
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mdzrodarvus: what's to be done about xserver-xorg-input-elographics? it still wants to move to universe; presumably some -all package should depend on it11:53
Keybukmdz: it's an entirely new version11:54
Keybukso needs MIRing again11:54
Keybukcomes from a different source package too11:55
Keybukwhat we used to have is ndiswrapper-1.8 or something11:57
Keybuklike I said when I did it, I haven't had chance to actually figure out what's going on11:58
Keybukso I NEW'd it all to universe11:58
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