[12:03] <jenda> hmm
[12:04] <Bigtoe> i am late...gotta run.
[12:04] <jenda> laters
[12:04] <Bigtoe> I will look into it more tomorrow, there has to be someone there I know that I can use a little table space
[12:05] <jenda> hello zenrox
[12:11] <gnomefreak> nixternal: ill brb ping me if im not back when your up
[12:11] <nixternal> roger that...thx
[12:19] <gnomefreak> imhere
[12:24] <jenda> GL nixternal
[12:26] <nixternal> thx jenda
[12:26] <nixternal> g'nite
[12:26] <gnomefreak> nite jenda
[12:26] <jenda> nite y'all
[12:27] <gnomefreak> nixternal: i didnt htink you would have  aproblem but you still have one more cc meneber to got hrough ;)
[12:27] <nixternal> ya, i have communicated a little with mako, so i think i will be fine
[12:27] <nixternal> thanks everyone!!!
[12:30] <nixternal> gnomefreak, jenda, bimberi thank you for your support!!!  i really do appreciate it, and i owe you...if you need anything please don't hesitate to ask!!!
[01:11] <bimberi> nixternal: np, i had a 3 minute window this morning and it just happened to coincide with the right moment :)
[02:32] <alecks> hello all
[02:41] <adamant1988> hello :)
[02:41] <nixternal> hello
[02:41] <adamant1988> I love ubuntu, lol.
[02:42] <adamant1988> seriously, This suse thing, it's not working out at all...
[02:42] <adamant1988> I tried to install apparmor from the VERY limited selection of programs.... the installer froze after it finished.
[02:42] <nixternal> nice
[02:43] <adamant1988> apparmor is like the one ap I really wanted to try
[02:43] <nixternal> ahh well..i had a window of opportunity to chat for a second, cuz my neices and nephews are vising, and if it wasn't for the CoC they would be on the moon right now ;)
[02:43] <nixternal> bbiaf ;)
[02:43] <adamant1988> lol.
[02:44] <adamant1988> How did that go btw?
[03:15] <adamant1988> hello all.
[03:30] <adamant1988> hello gnomefreak :)
[03:30] <gnomefreak> hello
[03:30] <alecks> hello
[03:32] <adamant1988> nixternal nice to have you back
[03:32] <adamant1988> did you meet with the council?
[03:33] <nixternal_> grrr
[03:33] <nixternal_> i think i did
[03:33] <nixternal_> im about as brain dead as one could get right now
[03:34] <adamant1988> lol
[05:22] <adamant1988> hello all.
[05:22] <nixternal> oh lord, look what the cat drug back in ;)
[05:22] <Burgundavia> hey adamant1988
[05:23] <Madpilot> hi adamant1988
[05:23] <adamant1988> lol
[05:23] <adamant1988> Ubuntu boxed set! booga Booga (nixternal)
[05:23] <nixternal> bah
[05:24] <nixternal> i don't buy anything if i don't have to
[05:24] <adamant1988> Gah, stupid SUSE
[05:24] <nixternal> when i buy from newegg, i never buy boxed/retail..always oem..i don't need no stinkin' box or manuals
[05:24] <adamant1988> Why throw all that fluff on an OS that isn't even functional...
[05:24] <adamant1988> the menu system is GREAT, now if I could just get programs to install =\
[05:24] <nixternal> heh, microsoft has beenn doing it for years, it is time someone else does it
[05:25] <adamant1988> I really think this menu type is the way Ubuntu should go.
[05:25] <adamant1988> Of that I'm certain, it makes things so simple.
[05:26] <adamant1988> But I'm determined
[05:26] <adamant1988> I'm giving SLED a week before I condemn it as crap and write a damning blog.
[05:29] <adamant1988> -_- it just crashed.
[05:30] <adamant1988> So I was looking at some of the potential Spread Ubuntu site designs today...
[05:31] <adamant1988> WildTangent has a good one, but it needs to be modified... ALL of the information is stuck in one page.. it's a bit of sensory overload if you want a quick delivery...
[05:33] <Cody> hmmm...
[05:33] <adamant1988> IMO Ubuntu-Geeks is probably the better designed one.
[05:33] <adamant1988> but admittedly those are the only two I saw
[05:33] <Cody> I'd have to agree
[05:34] <adamant1988> Also, WildTangent is the only one with working code right now.
[05:35] <Cody> I think the orange should probably be toned down
[05:36] <adamant1988> I told him that too.
[05:37] <adamant1988> I said that there is a reason that color orange is only an accent color in the OS.
[05:37] <Cody> definitely
[05:37] <adamant1988> What's problematic with his page is that the part that gets your attention are the bars at either end, NOT the information.
[05:37] <adamant1988> Ubuntu-Geeks mockup at least put everything in it's proper place with the proper use of color to draw your attention to the right places.
[05:38] <Cody> just needs to be fined tuned, and it would be awesome
[05:39] <adamant1988> That was my point
[05:39] <adamant1988> I said that in the forum channel and I got called a communist and everyone questioned my opinion =\
[05:40] <Cody> people need to be more open minded
[05:40] <adamant1988> wild tangent was nice about it
[05:40] <adamant1988> he got a lot nicer when he found out I was a member of the marketing team..
[05:40] <nixternal> can't be to open minded though, as it becomes easy to get brainwashed and start using windows again
[05:40] <Cody> its open source...
[05:41] <adamant1988> Actually Ubuntu has a good lure to it... I think Ubuntu should take more from SUSE in terms of applications.
[05:41] <adamant1988> novell makes excellent apps, just their desktop os sucks.
[05:41] <Cody> I think Ubuntu just needs that WOW factor. That everything works just right, and the apps are the best ever.
[05:42] <adamant1988> Cody, ubuntu is getting close
[05:42] <Cody> Its the closest
[05:42] <Cody> Thats why I've stuck with it
[05:42] <adamant1988> I think Ubuntu needs to do something new with the interface, and needs a killer app.
[05:42] <Cody> like iLife
[05:42] <adamant1988> Right now SUSE is the best with the interfact (Slab is awesome).
[05:43] <adamant1988> and it's all open sourced so nothings to stop Ubuntu edgy from having it.
[05:43] <Cody> lol
[05:43] <adamant1988> I'm still playing with SUSE though.. I just hope that no one takes the package managment from them..
[05:43] <adamant1988> ever.
[05:44] <Cody> I've used SUSE before too. Its very easy to like, but its not linuxy enough, if you know what I mean
[05:44] <adamant1988> It's not easy for me to like... I am very tempted to reinstall Ubuntu... but I promised I would give this a week.
[05:45] <adamant1988> the interface is great.. past that...
[05:45] <Cody> easy for an "average user" to like
[05:45] <darkmatter_> suse rocks :P
[05:45] <adamant1988> lol darkmatter_ I'm having the worst time with SLED 10 right now =\
[05:45] <darkmatter_> and has nothing to do with being 'average user'
[05:46] <Cody> very funny
[05:46] <darkmatter_> adamant1988.. because sled is still broken
[05:46] <adamant1988> I'll say..
[05:46] <adamant1988> Suse 10.1 was broken, SLED 10 is broken... do they fix anything before release?
[05:47] <adamant1988> yes I know sled isn't released
[05:47] <Cody> Ubuntu has nvr broken for me
[05:47] <darkmatter_> usually... but they're having major issues with zenworks atm
[05:47] <darkmatter_> but other than that.. all is well
[05:48] <Cody> another thing ubuntu could improve on is sound device compatibility, and those apps
[05:48] <darkmatter_> Cody... of course ubuntu never has broken.. thats because it was already broken when you installed it xD
[05:48] <Cody> ...
[05:49] <adamant1988> How do they deal with software needs of the user?  I know that Ubuntu has easily accesible repos but how do you get such repos for SUSE? 3rd party?
[05:49] <Cody> its too "confusing" for "average users"
[05:50] <Cody> a media center version of Ubuntu would be awesome
[05:50] <darkmatter_> adamant1988, tes... suse has repos
[05:50] <darkmatter_> *yes
[05:51] <Cody> how do you access them?
[05:51] <adamant1988> Like the Universe and Multiverse etc?  (I'd like to get my libdvdcss
[05:52] <Cody> hello zenrox
[05:52] <adamant1988> hey zenrox
[05:52] <adamant1988> darkmatter_, how is Ubuntu broken?
[05:53] <darkmatter_> adamant1988... that was _kind of_a joke
[05:53] <darkmatter_> kind of
[05:53] <darkmatter_> ;)
[05:53] <adamant1988> haha.
[05:55] <adamant1988> I still say Ubuntu > Suse, but I'll keep giving this distro a chance for the next week...
[05:56] <Cody> Have you heard of Sylable
[05:56] <Cody> ?
[05:56] <adamant1988> sounds familiar...
[05:58] <adamant1988> what is it?
[05:58] <Cody> Looks promising... I tryed what they had done so far (its not linux, its AtheOS rebuilt) and it was lightning fast, although no where near end user  ready
[05:58] <adamant1988> sounds cool.
[05:59] <Cody> impressive indeed, hope it gets somewhere, it could be incredible
[06:00] <adamant1988> I doubt it will get far to be honest... will many packages be available for it?
[06:00] <Cody> Not sure
[06:01] <adamant1988> that's the kicker right there
[06:01] <Cody> looks like they have a few drivers and ported apps, otherwise  its all native
[06:01] <Cody> your right, once again Ubuntu wins
[06:03] <Cody> I feel like I'm not contributing to the spreadubuntu team... how can I help at this moment?
[06:03] <adamant1988> I don't know
[06:04] <adamant1988> I'm trying to get a testimonial project done for the website I guess...
[06:04] <adamant1988> It's kind of my own thing.. that marketing team hasn't given me the go-ahead for it.
[06:04] <adamant1988> but if you want to help you can :)
[06:17] <Cody> cool
[06:18] <Cody> the only thing I've done is added screenshots, there were none, and it's not like its hard
[06:19] <adamant1988> Yeah... well my project as it is is to find as many (hopefully around 50) willing Windows users who would participate in using Ubuntu for 2 weeks and blogging about their experiences with it.
[06:19] <adamant1988> All the info they generate could be used to generate testimonial ads, marketing info, etc.
[06:19] <adamant1988> Anywho, I'm going onto the Suse Laptop... brb.
[06:23] <adamant1988> ok I'm back lol
[06:23] <Cody> ok
[06:24] <Cody> that was fast
[06:24] <adamant1988> Hrmm... perhaps dark was right
[06:24] <adamant1988> Suse seems to work better in some ways that Ubuntu does.
[06:24] <adamant1988> Although I still want to test application installs again
[06:24] <Cody> really
[06:25] <adamant1988> flash worked oob
[06:25] <adamant1988> I'm listening to my pandora account right now, something I haven't done in a long time.
[06:25] <Cody> thats nice
[06:26] <Cody> alongside xubuntu, there should be a Fat Ubuntu, where everything works out of the box
[06:26] <adamant1988> yeah, I missed pandora... It's great for finding new artists
[06:27] <adamant1988> Yeah, but that goes against Ubuntu's credo of freeness
[06:27] <adamant1988> They're making it as easy as possible without breaking any laws though.
[06:27] <Cody> which came first, pandora or last.fm
[06:28] <adamant1988> I'm not sure
[06:28] <adamant1988> pandora leverages the music genome project.
[06:28] <Cody> I'm on it right now, forgot how different it is from last.fm
[06:29] <adamant1988> hrmmm my laptop buttons don't work... -1 for Suse
[06:30] <Cody> Interesting, my multimedia keyboard (hp) didn't work under suse either
[06:31] <adamant1988> I wonder what Ubuntu did to get that working...
[06:31] <adamant1988> Well, I know why it's been so grudgingly slow
[06:32] <adamant1988> It almost slipped my mind that Beagle is still indexing.
[06:32] <Cody> Have you ever used a microphone under Ubuntu?
[06:32] <adamant1988> yeah, that worked pretty well for me.
[06:33] <Cody> what microphone did you use?
[06:33] <adamant1988> I'll not get the oppertunity to test it under SUSE though, no jack for it on my laptop
[06:33] <adamant1988> I just used a $15 dollar headset I purchased at wal-mart
[06:33] <Cody> I have a logitech desktop usb one, and it doesn't want to work in ubuntu
[06:34] <adamant1988> Couldn't give you a brand... pretty generic.
[06:34] <Cody> is it usb?
[06:34] <adamant1988> no it plug into the mic jack.
[06:34] <Cody> I'll have to look into that
[06:34] <adamant1988> I made a few skype calls with it, to The Linux Campaign
[06:35] <adamant1988> not the best mic had to have it like 2" away from my face in order to get anywhere with it.
[06:35] <Cody> yeah, I was going to use it for skype to
[06:35] <adamant1988> I would prefer wengophone if it didn't crash every time I tried to run it
[06:35] <adamant1988> just because it's f/oss and I think that should be supported
[06:36] <Cody> ok
[06:37] <adamant1988> We're a bit offtopic though...  Would you like to join my channel and we can chat in there without the loging bot picking it all up?
[06:37] <Cody> sure
[06:38] <adamant1988> #linuxuserlounge
[06:38] <Cody> ok
[07:05] <Rescue> Nix!
[07:05] <Rescue> did you make it?
[07:05] <Rescue> I sent Benj a +1 before I had to bail for a meeting
[07:23] <Rescue> hmm no response. bummer. Ok, off to bed. Still working at my client's. cheers to all who read this after the fact.
[07:42] <nixternal> bah
[07:42] <adamant1988> man beagle is soooooo slowing down SUSE
[07:43] <nixternal> beagle is slow on everything
[07:43] <adamant1988> yeah, I wish it would quit indexing for once...
[07:43] <adamant1988> it's not too bad on my desktop machine that has 1 GB ram, lol... but on my laptop with 256... there's not as much room for waste.
[08:38] <WildTangent> hello
[08:38] <adamant1988> Hey.
[08:51] <jenda> Hello WildTangent
[08:51] <WildTangent> hi
[08:51] <adamant1988> jenda you're awake
[08:51] <jenda> nixternal: any news?
[08:52] <jenda> adamant1988: good morning ;)
[08:52] <WildTangent> you guys are gonna be a tough sell...im stepping up my game :)
[08:52] <adamant1988> lol it's 2:52 I was just thinking about bed.
[08:52] <adamant1988> I was discussing WildTangent's design with him, as compared to Ubuntu-Geeks
[08:52] <jenda> hehe ;)
[08:52] <jenda> What did you reach?
[08:53] <adamant1988> lol, not much... I got called a communist for sharing my opinion on the matter though.
[08:53] <WildTangent> not by me
[08:53] <adamant1988> No no, but by some person in the channel.
[08:54] <adamant1988> Everyone in the channel really liked WildTangent's design, personally I don't think that particular design is what spread ubuntu needs...
[08:54] <adamant1988> Ubuntu-Geek has the right idea IMO.
[08:54] <WildTangent> just wait, ive got some changes in mind
[08:54] <WildTangent> :)
[08:54] <Burgundavia> WildTangent: where do I see your mockup?
[08:54] <WildTangent> http://www.w1ldt4ng3nt.net/csstest/spreadubuntu/
[08:55] <adamant1988> Oh and on the suse linux front, I'm sad to report I haven't been able to break it yet... it seems to be solid =\
[08:55] <Burgundavia> interesting, suffers from much of same flaws as the main Ubuntu website
[08:55] <adamant1988> that's my point
[08:56] <Burgundavia> WildTangent: why did you choose a different colour scheme
[08:56] <WildTangent> it had to be different somehow
[08:56] <Burgundavia> I would like a complete redesign, as the top bar eats up too much space (of the main website)
[08:56] <WildTangent> it matches the new human theme closer
[08:56] <adamant1988> Ubuntu-Geeks design pulls attention TO the information, rather than away from it.  It is professional looking and the information is given in small chunks rather than one large one.
[08:56] <Burgundavia> shrink the top bar
[08:56] <Burgundavia> where is UGs design?
[08:57] <WildTangent> adamant1988, i told you already, that info is just there to fill some space
[08:57] <jenda> Burgundavia: have a look at the Spreadubuntu wiki at the bottom.
[08:57] <Burgundavia> oh, and gradients in the top bar are a bad thing
[08:57] <Burgundavia> jenda: linky?
[08:57] <adamant1988> currently the information in WildTangent's design is practically in negative space.
[08:57] <adamant1988> link me too, I want to review Ubuntu-Geeks some more.
[08:58] <adamant1988> and I don't have it bookmarked, I'm on my laptop which has a fresh suse install...
[08:58] <jenda> Burgundavia: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/SpreadUbuntu
[08:58] <Burgundavia> I see Nick's
[08:59] <Burgundavia> they don't grab me either
[08:59] <adamant1988> Those aren't the ones I saw
[09:00] <Burgundavia> I would take the standard Ubuntu layout and do the following two things:
[09:00] <Burgundavia> 1: Shrink the top bar
[09:00] <adamant1988> WildTangent, do you have the link to  Ubuntu-Geeks display that you showed us?
[09:00] <Burgundavia> 2: move the navigation to the left
[09:00] <adamant1988> I'm not a big fan of using the Ubuntu site design at all, myself.
[09:01] <Burgundavia> why not?
[09:01] <Burgundavia> my thinking is that having a common design is a good thing
[09:01] <WildTangent> ok
[09:01] <WildTangent> it can be shrunk horizontally
[09:01] <WildTangent> how is it now?
[09:01] <adamant1988> Yeah but is spread ubuntu a part of the main site?
[09:01] <Burgundavia> WildTangent: shrink the bar vertically
[09:01] <WildTangent> i set a max width optimized for 1280x1024
[09:01] <Madpilot> or at least a roughly common design, with variations - like the design I thrashed together for Ubuntu.ca
[09:01] <Burgundavia> adamant1988: yes
[09:01] <WildTangent> Burgundavia, thats not easily done
[09:02] <WildTangent> it will take time
[09:02] <adamant1988> Hrmm...
[09:02] <Burgundavia> WildTangent: see ubuntu.ca
[09:02] <Burgundavia> adamant1988: we are promoting Ubuntu NOT Spread Ubuntu
[09:02] <adamant1988> In that case Ubuntu-Geeks design would need modifications... his is a world apart from the main site design
[09:02] <WildTangent> its pretty much the same height
[09:02] <Burgundavia> hmm, yes it is
[09:02] <WildTangent> thats why i made mine so similar
[09:02] <WildTangent> so that people identify with it
[09:02] <Burgundavia> but your gradient is awful
[09:03] <adamant1988> WildTangent, do you have the link to Ubuntu-Geeks design that you showed us in the other channel?
[09:03] <adamant1988> and it grabs attention -2 pts.
[09:03] <WildTangent> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=12575&d=1152665081
[09:04] <adamant1988> I reallly like this design concept.
[09:04] <adamant1988> It could be made to match the site more with a few slight modifications (less white for one), but I think the general idea is good in this one.
[09:05] <WildTangent> hey, guess what...its not hard to make a design similar to his
[09:05] <WildTangent> just wait...im swimming in windows
[09:06] <adamant1988> WildTangent, do your best man
[09:06] <WildTangent> im trying :)
[09:06] <adamant1988> You seem to be the resident people person, so no doubt everyone would be very happy if your design was selected
[09:06] <WildTangent> id like to see my design on the site
[09:06] <WildTangent> i am rather popular :P
[09:06] <adamant1988> I noticed, going against your design warranted me being called a communist =\
[09:06] <WildTangent> anyway...ive got something for ya soon...
[09:07] <adamant1988> Do whatever you can :) No pain no gain
[09:07] <adamant1988> Which is a lesson I'd like to teach SUSE linux but it seems pretty resistant to pain.
[09:11] <mindspin> I agree with Burgundavia, the site should use the same design as the ubuntu main page, added graphics (like "spread-ubuntu buttons to add to users homepages) should go to "content" not the design
[09:12] <mindspin> I personally like a "three column" layout, navigation on top
[09:12] <Burgundavia> jenda: why so?
[09:13] <jenda> We are targetting a different audience, but the content will be similar to ubuntu.com (at least for the 'top' half of SU)
[09:13] <adamant1988> I think there should be a noticeable similiarity between the spreadubuntu and the ubuntu site but not identical.
[09:13] <jenda> Which means we need a simple, clean layout.
[09:13] <Burgundavia> adamant1988: noticable similarity means the same top bar
[09:13] <mindspin> ubuntus layout is simple and clear,
[09:13] <Burgundavia> which is basically all the current Ubuntu websites share
[09:14] <adamant1988> no, color scheme should be enough for compatibility imo.
[09:14] <Burgundavia> in fact, spread Ubuntu is going to look really out of place if it doesn;t
[09:14] <jenda> Possibly a pale, Ubuntu background, no navigation, only in-text links, and the five -it links
[09:14] <jenda> How about the top bar appears whenever you leave the front page?
[09:14] <adamant1988> Jenda what did you think of Ubuntu geeks design?
[09:14] <Burgundavia> jenda: uhhhh
[09:15] <adamant1988> I agree with Jenda, what we need is simple, clean and elegant designing on this.
[09:15] <adamant1988> WildTangent, can vouche for my opinion on that.
[09:16] <jenda> The front page has to be like that. I'm quite certain we don't want any navigation on there, but clicking any link in the text it self will take you to one other page, where the navigation will appear.
[09:16] <WildTangent> Burgundavia, my demo started out looked EXACTLY like ubuntu.com
[09:16] <WildTangent> i can revert it
[09:16] <WildTangent> easy
[09:16] <WildTangent> if you dont like the header
[09:17] <WildTangent> which i do, but youre the client :)
[09:17] <adamant1988> I'm with Jenda, I like the navigation appearing after leaving the main portion of the site.
[09:17] <mindspin> honestly spoken, I hate websites with "no navigation" on the frontpage..
[09:17] <Burgundavia> the header I feel is too busy
[09:17] <WildTangent> however, i do suggest we keep my link colors and such
[09:17] <WildTangent> to keep some difference
[09:17] <Burgundavia> the gradient makes it hard to see the logo and the name
[09:17] <WildTangent> right now, theyre the same as the forums
[09:17] <jenda> And if there has to be a navigation toolbar, make it at the bottom, not visible at the first glance
[09:17] <adamant1988> also we need to condense the information
[09:17] <jenda> I want to keep a poster-like look for the frontpage.
[09:17] <WildTangent> which nav bar?
[09:17] <WildTangent> there are two
[09:17] <jenda> WildTangent: there shouldn't be ;)
[09:17] <adamant1988> as little scrolling as possible is a GOOD thing, IMO.
[09:18] <jenda> I was talking in general.
[09:18] <WildTangent> jenda, its very difficult to move it to the bottom
[09:18] <WildTangent> in fact, i dont know how
[09:18] <jenda> hmm
[09:18] <WildTangent> doing so will make the page longer as well
[09:19] <mindspin> jenda,making navigation "invisible" is absolutely against the rules of usability ;-)
[09:19] <adamant1988> I can't remember the rule exactly that says that a user should only have to scrol X amount of times to see an entire page.. but typically the less scrolling the better.
[09:19] <jenda> I wouldn't mind that. If you insist on navigation on the front page, I want it below the main page.
[09:19] <jenda> mindspin: not really - the frontpage is just a welcomer...
[09:19] <jenda> OR
[09:19] <jenda> how about a hiding navigation toolbar at the top?
[09:20] <adamant1988> I think an in text navigation (ala Ubuntu-Geeks design) puts all the information in context and makes it easily available.
[09:20] <Burgundavia> jenda: why do you want a poster-like front page?
[09:20] <adamant1988> because posters are attractive.
[09:20] <WildTangent> posters are boring ;)
[09:20] <Burgundavia> a fairly useless, in a web context
[09:21] <mindspin> jenda thats why I hat such "welcomers", I#m looking for information and I want it quick when I visit a page. Think of all those lousy flash intros, I always click on "skip intro" when its there at last
[09:21] <Burgundavia> posters are about grabbing people from 15+ feet away
[09:21] <Burgundavia> your computer monitor is not that
[09:21] <adamant1988> yes but this site is about getting your attention, similiar concept.
[09:22] <jenda> Not really, the main content would be on the other pages, not the front page. The front page would have text that is monitor-sized, not 15-feet-away sized.
[09:22] <mindspin> btw. whenis the next irc meeting scheduled?
[09:22] <jenda> Yes, adamant1988, that's what I meant ;)
[09:22] <jenda> mindspin: tomorrow
[09:22] <Burgundavia> then it is not a poster, hence there is no need to change style from the ubuntu page-style
[09:22] <adamant1988> Crap, what time is the meeting?
[09:22] <jenda> But that's not a Spreadubuntu meeting, and we won't go through the technical details there.
[09:23] <jenda> 20:00 UTC
[09:23] <mindspin> fine, i wondered if it was the 17th, when I'm on my way to holiday
[09:23] <jenda> Burgundavia: I don't want the top bar disturbing the simple, attention-grabbing design.
[09:23] <mindspin> mt-meeting ?
[09:23] <adamant1988> Burgundavia, I'm all for the new design... the regular ubuntu design hits you with a mass of text all at once... a smaller more condensed and better organized design would help a lot.
[09:23] <Burgundavia> jenda: it doesn;t have to
[09:23] <adamant1988> 20:00 UTC is what in Eastern time?
[09:23] <Burgundavia> adamant1988: the mass of text is slightly different issue
[09:24] <adamant1988> but it's part of the main design idea =\
[09:24] <Burgundavia> no it isn't
[09:24] <mindspin> adamant1988: the masses of texts are not part of the main design, its content...
[09:24] <Burgundavia> I am only talking about the bar across the top, with the logo, name and tabs
[09:24] <adamant1988> The page design is very accomodating to that then.
[09:24] <mindspin> yup
 Schedule for Canada/Eastern: 12 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 13 Jul 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 13 Jul 15:00: Marketing Team | 17 Jul 09:00: Kubuntu | 18 Jul 16:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 16:00: Edubuntu
[09:25] <adamant1988> so that's at 3 o'clock here?
[09:25] <mindspin> thanks, I mixed it with the kubuntu meeting
[09:25] <jenda> yes
[09:25] <adamant1988> good I can make it
[09:25] <jenda> Burgundavia: I'll think about the top bar
[09:25] <adamant1988> but I can only stay about a half hour.
[09:25] <adamant1988> I have to work.
[09:25] <jenda> Burgundavia: what about a hiding one?
[09:25] <Burgundavia> a hiding one?
[09:25] <Burgundavia> that sounds like a bunch of crack
[09:25] <jenda> auto-hide
[09:26] <Burgundavia> uhhh
[09:26] <Burgundavia> autohide serves no purpose
[09:26] <adamant1988> I hate to agree but if we're going to put it there we might as well put it there...
[09:26] <adamant1988> Could we alter the nav bar up top a little bit?
[09:27] <jenda> I don't want the bar disturbing the look of the front page.
[09:28] <mindspin> we know, and I dont want awelcome page with no navigation ;-)
[09:28] <adamant1988> What I'm saying is we could make a condensed version of the top nav bar and make it look like it belongs in the page.
[09:28] <adamant1988> instead of something that totally clashes with the design
[09:28] <Burgundavia> jenda: rather than debate, show me a design where the top bar hurts
[09:29] <adamant1988> Does anyone know a good thought-tracking program for linux lol? I'm trying to use Tom-Boy but it's getting rather busy quickly.
[09:31] <jenda> Burgundavia: all of the designs to date have top bars - and it disrupts the look of the page... Lemme rather create/find/get someone to create/... something that shows what I want to see there...
[09:32] <jenda> adamant1988: I kindof like the idea of a simplified top bar if you guys don't let me push the no-nav layout.
[09:32] <Burgundavia> however, you still have not yet convinced me why su needs a different look to EVERY OTHER ubuntu website out there
[09:32] <adamant1988> I'm with you on the no nav bar
[09:32] <Burgundavia> the forums, help.u.c, wiki.u.c, packages, etc. etc.
[09:32] <adamant1988> but I think a good compromise is always key to a good solution.
[09:33] <mindspin> thats our CD if you like it or not (I personally do not like the color scheme)
[09:33] <Burgundavia> I hones't don't mind if we find a new default style, but lets keep it consistent
[09:33] <Burgundavia> I agree the top bar is not perfect
[09:34] <adamant1988> I'm going to go to bed.
[09:34] <adamant1988> I'll talk to you guys tomorrow before the meeting and during for a bit, I imagine.
[09:34] <Burgundavia> when is the meeting?
[09:35] <jenda> Burgundavia: I'm having the impression we are looking exactly for something different: ubuntu.com looks so corporate and proffessional, I'd like SU to look artistic and relaxed.
[09:35] <Burgundavia> ummm
[09:35] <Burgundavia> ubuntu.com just looks busy to me, but that is another issue
[09:35] <Burgundavia> http://inkscape.org/ <-- artsy?
[09:36] <adamant1988> I think he's aiming for an apple.com artsy
[09:36] <adamant1988> simple, elegant, clean.
[09:36] <Burgundavia> http://www.scribus.net/ <-- artsty (I see a top bar)
[09:36] <Burgundavia> http://www.gimp.org/ <-- artsy (I see a topbar)
[09:36] <WildTangent> damnit..well that idea didnt work
[09:37] <Burgundavia> http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/ ,-- artsy (I see a topbar)
[09:37] <WildTangent> im trying to create some of this rounded brownish-grey box you all seem so fond of
[09:37] <WildTangent> but theres no easy way to do it
[09:37] <Burgundavia> http://www.spreadfirefox.com/ <-- topbar
[09:38] <Burgundavia> jenda: sorry to deluge you, but there are some websites for clearly artsy things
[09:39] <adamant1988> sleeping now
[09:39] <jenda> Well, you might have me sold for the top bar,
[09:40] <jenda> I don't think I clearly explained what i meant by artistic. Neither of those pages fit, lemme search on.
[09:40] <WildTangent> ok...i havent been keeping up with the discussion in here
[09:40] <jenda> http://www.wikipedia.org/
[09:40] <Burgundavia> you call that artsy?
[09:40] <jenda> Ha, that's a little closer to what I'm looking for
[09:41] <Burgundavia> but that is a compromise
[09:41] <jenda> No, I mean it does'nt have the basic website structure.
[09:41] <Burgundavia> there is no content there because it is multilingual
[09:41] <Burgundavia> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page <-- were english to be the only language, this is what you see
[09:41] <jenda> It's there, on your screen, and you're looking at the center of the page, not at any bars.
[09:41] <jenda> NOT the point, Burgundavia
[09:41] <Burgundavia> splash pages are really annoying
[09:41] <Burgundavia> there is a reason they don't exist very much
[09:42] <jenda> Not a splash page - I'd replace the globe with the content, really. It's the look that I had in mind.
[09:43] <Burgundavia> if you are going to have content, then why not the top bar?
[09:43] <jenda> It makes you stare right at that logo. Now I'm imagining either a block of text with the Ubuntu logo as a watermark and text over it, or around it, a little like over there on wikipedia.
[09:43] <Burgundavia> failure to enforce visual consistency is one of the fundamental marketing mistakes
[09:43] <jenda> With more text, of course, not just a list of languages.
[09:43] <jenda> Remember, it's there to draw attention.
[09:44] <Burgundavia> that would be an ad, not a website
[09:44] <Burgundavia> SU is not an ad
[09:44] <jenda> No, it's not.
[09:44] <Burgundavia> it is a community website to get people excited about spreading Ubuntu
[09:44] <jenda> THere is text there, with links, and then the See it, try it, get it etc.
[09:44] <jenda> Yes
[09:45] <Burgundavia> it is about Ubuntu and therefor should look like an Ubuntu website, with the Ubuntu style
[09:45] <jenda> Or, rather, to draw them from just meeting ubuntu to spreading ubuntu in the end.
[09:45] <jenda> Wrong deduction.
[09:45] <Burgundavia> again, visual inconsistency is a failure of marketing
[09:45] <jenda> It serves a purpose and the look will be adjusted according to that.
[09:45] <Burgundavia> it diluates your brand
[09:46] <Burgundavia> we are the marketing team. If we don't understand this basic concept, we are screwed
[09:46] <mindspin> calm down Burgundavia
[09:47] <Burgundavia> mindspin: I am not angry
[09:47] <Burgundavia> I am trying to make a point
[09:47] <mindspin> you seem to be in a slightly way...
[09:47] <Burgundavia> that is because text cannot carry any emotional weight
[09:48] <Burgundavia> very annoying flaw, that
[09:48] <mindspin> I agree with your point about consistency, but "we are screwed" sounds too harsh to me
[09:48] <Burgundavia> no, we are destined for the rubbish bin of "mediocre marketing"
[09:49] <Burgundavia> we need to pull beyond, into the realm of apple
[09:49] <jenda> let's not discuss the language ;)
[09:49] <Burgundavia> regardless of what you think about them, apple products are extremely well marketed
[09:49] <jenda> I see your point, Burgundavia
[09:49] <Burgundavia> a large part of that is visual consistency
[09:49] <mindspin> the "coolness" factor it is...
[09:49] <Burgundavia> when you see a white piece of technology, you think apple
[09:50] <jenda> If you see a brown website...
[09:50] <Burgundavia> you think Ubuntu
[09:50] <jenda> :)
[09:50] <Burgundavia> but, here is the real kicker
[09:50] <jenda> I know what you mean, and I don't insist on the no-top-bar.
[09:50] <Burgundavia> apple also has a consistent look
[09:50] <jenda> I'll have to think about it.
[09:51] <Burgundavia> I bet we can design a page with the top bar that looks great
[09:51] <jenda> But it seems to me that that wikipedia splash (for lack of a better example) fulfills what I need, even though it serves a totally different, splash-screen purpose.
[09:51] <Burgundavia> but splash screens are evil
[09:52] <Burgundavia> they serve to annoy the user from getting what they really want (the meat)
[09:52] <mindspin> +
[09:53] <Burgundavia> jenda: http://www.websiteoptimization.com/speed/tweak/splash/
[09:53] <jenda> I know - I'm not talking about a splash screen.
[09:54] <jenda> I'm saying the wikip. one does what I want the frontpage to do - draw you in. It doesn't, however, give info, which I'd add.
[09:54] <Burgundavia> yes, but then we are back at the issue of if it is not a splash, then why no bar?
[09:54] <Burgundavia> again, I am not adverse to a total redesign of the Ubuntu look
[09:54] <WildTangent> ok, ive made the wierd rounded box :)
[09:54] <Burgundavia> but if we do it, it should be consistent across all ubuntu websites
[09:54] <WildTangent> ive just put random text in to test it
[09:55] <WildTangent> ill change it later
[09:55] <WildTangent> to something meaningful :P
[09:56] <Burgundavia> anyway, I have to crash
[09:56] <jenda> I don't think this is productive anymore, Burgundavia. But you might be right, just give me time to reflect on it ;)
[09:56] <Burgundavia> good night
[09:56] <jenda> good night.
[09:56] <jenda> WildTangent: linky?
[09:56] <WildTangent> http://www.w1ldt4ng3nt.net/csstest/spreadubuntu/
[09:56] <WildTangent> im still not a fan of the fixed max width
[09:56] <WildTangent> can i please just put it back to 100% :)
[09:58] <WildTangent> you know...
[09:58] <WildTangent> i think the whitspace overpowers the orange
[09:58] <WildTangent> therefore..its not distracting
[09:59] <WildTangent> anyway...much work to be done
[10:00] <jenda> can't see the link...
[10:00] <WildTangent> uh..
[10:00] <jenda> now it's OK
[10:08] <WildTangent> anyway...
[10:08] <WildTangent> im still experimenting
[10:16] <mindspin> WildTangent: ship it and get it should be changed... (imho)
[10:17] <mindspin> guten Morgen ompaul
[10:17] <WildTangent> whatever, im just going by the ideas in the thread
[10:17] <ompaul> Morning mindspin
[10:17] <ompaul> Morning all
[10:18] <mindspin> it sohould be see it-> try it-> get it ->spread it , the link to shipit should be a subpoint of "get iit"
[10:19] <mindspin> http://www.w1ldt4ng3nt.net/csstest/spreadubuntu/
[10:19] <mindspin> thats what we talk about..
[10:20] <mindspin> was meant for ompaul..
[10:24] <ompaul> is it the case that spreading ubuntu is not about shipit but about downloading, getting it from your local lug or Ubuntu user if all the above fail then shipit - in some cases giving the DVD would be better (I have about 60 left) we will be having a meet up and passing them out from there
[10:27] <mindspin> ship it is a way to get it, so the analogy is see it-> try it-> get it ->spread it
[10:28] <ompaul> http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop actually could be the point that spreadit points to - if it got "seek community" to get it
[10:29] <ompaul> I'll think a little more about same
[10:33] <jenda> mindspin: most probably irrelevant, as shipit won't be around for ever.
[10:34] <mindspin> WildTangent: the version with arrows looked way nicer than the text only one, although the arrowed version could increase in size a bit
[10:35] <WildTangent> im working on it
[10:35] <mindspin> ;-)
[10:35] <WildTangent> i might replace the text with images using the ubuntu font
[10:35] <WildTangent> thatd look better :)
[10:48] <WildTangent> ok, check it out now
[10:50] <jenda> Wild, it's actually going somewhere :)
[10:50] <WildTangent> :)
[10:51] <WildTangent> i need some things to actually link to though
[10:51] <jenda> Hmm
[10:51] <WildTangent> ive got see linked to the desktop page on ubuntu.com
[10:51] <jenda> I'll begin work on the content soon enough.
[10:51] <WildTangent> and get to download
[10:53] <WildTangent> well, its time for bed for me
[10:53] <WildTangent> i guess this is good enough to leave for biw
[10:53] <WildTangent> *now
[10:53] <WildTangent> glad you pushed me to improve it, i like it even more :)
[10:53] <WildTangent> with further refinement...itll look better than any ubuntu site
[10:53] <jenda> Hehe ;)
[10:54] <jenda> Thanks for your input, WildTangent :)
[10:54] <WildTangent> oh..and did i mention its valid xhtml 1.0 strict ;)
[10:54] <hybrid> mmka
[10:54] <WildTangent> gotta look good to the coders too :)
[10:56] <jenda> 
[10:57] <jenda> hello hybrid
[10:57] <hybrid> howdy
[10:57] <hybrid> jenda: are you the one i talk to about joining the team?
[10:57] <jenda> Very possibly...
[10:58] <hybrid> mmkay
[10:58] <jenda> When did we talk? It might have been someone else :)
[10:59] <hybrid> not i
[10:59] <jenda> In either case - you can have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/GetInvolved
[10:59] <jenda> Ah :) I thought you were asking who the guy you talkED to was.
[11:01] <hybrid> no, i was asking if i am to discuss joining with you ;)
[11:01] <jenda> No probs - joining is no problem, there are no requirements except wanting to.
[11:01] <jenda> I remember you used to work on this tutorial movie, forgot the name :)
[11:02] <jenda> That could be a very valuable contribution to Spreadubuntu if it's still alive.
[11:02] <hybrid> a remake is in the works
[11:02] <jenda> Great :)
[11:02] <hybrid> now that my skills have progressed
[11:03] <hybrid> after i get my dapper CDs i will be able to begin.
[11:03] <hybrid> im really interested in the magazine, i love to write.
[11:03] <jenda> Very good - I remember that it was to a proffesional documentary about as a blog is to a newspaper ;) If you can make it look pro, it'd be really, really great :)
[11:03] <jenda> Even better - Sara Vasquez is the project leader for that.
[11:04] <hybrid> okay sounds good.
[11:04] <hybrid> yeah i can really spiff it up
[11:04] <hybrid> what you saw was my very first crack at any of this
[11:05] <hybrid> my editting, shoot and coordination has increased enough to produce a nice one now
[11:05] <mindspin> WildTangent: I'm going to copy it and play aroundwith it during the day...
[11:05] <mindspin> test
[11:06] <WildTangent> my code?
[11:06] <mindspin> sure
[11:06] <WildTangent> sure, go ahead
[11:06] <hybrid> jenda: what all do you want covered? so i can go ahead and do my outline
[11:07] <WildTangent> mindspin, ill send you a tarfile with all the files in it
[11:07] <mindspin> I'll put it on my webspace and send the link via the mailing list
[11:07] <mindspin> WildTangent: fine
[11:07] <WildTangent> http://www.w1ldt4ng3nt.net/files/spreadubuntu.tar.gz
[11:08] <mindspin> got it, tahnks
[11:09] <WildTangent> np
[11:09] <WildTangent> no guarantee it wont change in the meantime though :P
[11:09] <mindspin> dont worry
[11:10] <jenda> Hello matthewrevell.
[11:11] <jenda> hybrid: You know what, write down the proposal, describe wtf it is etc. on the ubuntu-marketing mailing list, and we can brainstorm there.
[11:11] <matthewrevell> jenda: hey
[11:12] <hybrid> mmkay
[11:14] <WildTangent> bedtime
[11:14] <WildTangent> cya
[11:19] <jenda> matthewrevell: you beat me to hybrid on launchpad :)
[01:05] <ompaul> LP is going down in 9 minutes, ETD is 10 mins
[01:05] <ompaul> ~
[02:02] <jenda> Could anyone please host a picture for me?
[02:03] <mindspin> sure
[02:03] <jenda> thanks ;) shall I mail it?
[02:03] <mindspin> yup
[02:05] <jenda> sent
[02:05] <jenda> brb, lunch
[02:05] <jenda> It's a spreadubuntu mockup ;)
[02:07] <mindspin> wait until I gave you the url ;-)
[02:10] <mindspin> http://su.mindspin-cms-hosting.de/Mockup.png
[02:10] <mindspin> plus the regular ubuntu header and it would look nice....
[02:23] <jenda> hehe :)
[02:23] <jenda> Can be, i did it in inkscape and didn't know how to add that.
[02:23] <jenda> I have a reason for having asked volunteers to design it :D
[02:23] <jenda> mindspin: thanks :)
[03:39] <Cody> hello
[03:52] <jenda> Hello Cody
[03:53] <Cody> hey
[03:53] <Cody> How can I be of assistance ?
[03:54] <jenda> Have a look at the wiki :)
[03:54] <jenda> ATM, I'm looking for webdesigners
[03:55] <Cody> ok
[03:55] <mindspin> jenda can you point me to the background image of your lats su-mockup png ?
[03:55] <jenda> sure
[03:55] <jenda> http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/ubuntu/54
[03:55] <mindspin> thanks
[03:55] <jenda> np
[03:56] <jenda> mindspin: I can mail you the svg of the mockup too
[03:56] <mindspin> I'm not sure wether I can do anything with it ;-)
[03:58] <Cody> hmmm....
[03:59] <jenda> what do you mean, mindspin? :)
[03:59] <jenda> Well, it's here if you want it anyway.
[03:59] <jenda> inkscape is so easy even I can use it 
[04:03] <Cody> I like the mockup
[04:04] <mindspin> i never used inkscape
[04:05] <Cody> I haven't either
[04:47] <nixternal> moins everyone
[04:47] <bigtoe> hi nixternal
[04:48] <nixternal> hiya bigtoe
[04:49] <jenda> nixternal!
[04:49] <jenda> So?
[04:49] <jenda> Where's the cloak, where's the booze? Where's the party?
[04:50] <nixternal> your guess is as good as mine ;)
[04:50] <bigtoe> booze? party?
[04:50] <stefg> sounds like Berlin :-)
[04:51] <jenda> nixternal: mako still nothing?
[04:51] <jenda> stefg: I'm only one border away ;)
[04:51] <nixternal> from what i can tell, that seems to be right
[04:51] <nixternal> mako is to busy for his own good
[04:51] <jenda> True.
[04:52] <jenda> Ah well, let's sit and wait then ;) But you'll have no trouble there.
[04:52] <nixternal> i don't think so
[04:54] <stefg> BTW, did anyone talk to dholbach lately if the dapper release party actually took place in Berlin? The wiki page stops at 'we're planning to do...' and i was offsite
[04:55] <jenda> stefg: /msg dholbach
[04:55] <jenda> If you wish...
[04:57] <stefg> errmmm.... yes, a bit too obvious to come up with myself :-)
[05:07] <nixternal> 500 CDs requested in 2006-07-10. 200 CDs approved and sent to the shipping company in 2006-07-12. Please note requests usually take from 4 to 6 weeks to deliver, depending on the country of shipping.
[05:08] <nixternal> well...200 will work..now i will try for 500 kubuntu ;)
[05:08] <jenda> Heh ;)
[05:08] <jenda> How do you give away 500 CDs?
[05:08] <nixternal> those will go fast..but my other guys are ordering some also
[05:08] <jenda> I managed around 80 or so ;)
[05:08] <nixternal> we are going to do a Chicago Days...we are going to spend a day downtown with Ubuntu
[05:09] <jenda> Not enough demand here, i guess.
[05:09] <jenda> Argh... me envies nixternal's loco team :)
[05:09] <nixternal> we will put flyers with the disks, as well as contacts
[05:09] <jenda> Yes, ingenial
[05:09] <nixternal> i got rid of 200 in 10 minutes recently
[05:09] <jenda> PLEASE document all you give out :)
[05:09] <nixternal> people grabbed it like it was free beer
[05:09] <jenda> It will be great input to SU
[05:09] <jenda> hehe :)
[05:09] <nixternal> i can do that
[05:10] <nixternal> we can have an events outcome section or something
[05:10] <bigtoe> i wish my loco was that motivated
[05:10] <nixternal> you gotta take charge bigtoe
[05:10] <nixternal> i have been working hard to get this going, and i got lucky with the small group i have attained so far
[05:11] <bigtoe> i am still trying to get in touch with the head of my loco
[05:12] <nixternal> jeesh...i hate to be a snitch, but he doesn't respond, you have to take action
[05:12] <nixternal> we don't need people like that in the community..i understand if you are busy, and that is why you have a 2nd contact
[05:12] <jenda> bigtoe: where's that?
[05:12] <bigtoe> yeah, i wanted to give it a week or two...i don't know if he is on vacation or something like that
[05:12] <nixternal> i have 5 active contacts...and they all know what to do, so they can make decisions on their own...command decisions is what i cll it
[05:14] <bigtoe> it's teampdx
[05:14] <bigtoe> they are new...at least listed as new on the wiki
[05:14] <jenda> where?
[05:14] <bigtoe> portland, oregon
[05:15] <jenda> I see.
[05:15] <jenda> There's gotta be more active folks there ;)
[05:15] <bigtoe> i will see if i can get in touch with one of the others
[05:22] <adamant1988> hello all
[05:23] <adamant1988> =\
[05:23] <jenda> hello adamant1988
[05:24] <adamant1988> So, anything interesting get decided while I was sleeping?
[05:24] <jenda> not really ;)
[05:24] <adamant1988> always good
[05:24] <adamant1988> I'd hate to not be apart of it
[05:24] <adamant1988> lol
[05:24] <nixternal> oh no... adamant1988 scares me everytime he says "hello all"
[05:25] <adamant1988> I need to unplug the cord from this laptop and get back on my ubuntu desktop
[05:25] <adamant1988> I miss it...
[05:25] <jenda> hehe
[05:26] <jenda> please keep the offtopic down in the channel, adamant1988, for the sake of the log-readers.
[05:26] <adamant1988> ok I keep forgetting about that loging bot
[05:27] <adamant1988> I doubt I'm going to be able to make that meeting today
[05:27] <jenda> tomorrow
[05:27] <adamant1988> oh tomorrow?
[05:27] <jenda> July 13
[05:27] <adamant1988> stupid AM PM confusion
[05:27] <jenda> Thursday ;)
[05:27] <adamant1988> Ok, I might well be able to make that
[05:27] <adamant1988> lol, I'm being trained for a bunch of new crap at work t.hat requires me to be there at like 6 am on some days
[05:28] <nixternal> jenda: do you know who is in charge of the ubuntu mailing list?  besides "mailman" who doesn't answer ;)
[05:28] <jenda> which list?
[05:28] <jenda> Ahh
[05:28] <nixternal> in charge of all of them..so i can get chicago-list ;)
[05:28] <jenda> no, I don't, actually...
[05:29] <jenda> you asked yesterday ;)
[05:29] <nixternal> i do as i am told now for more then 2 weeks, and i get nothing
[05:29] <nixternal> i mean by emailing the mailman at ubuntu-lists
[05:30] <nixternal> you are slick jenda ;)
[05:30] <jenda> I'm sure folks in that channel will know who does that ;)
[05:30] <jenda> I hope that was a compliment :-D
[05:30] <adamant1988> ok, I'll be back shortly... logging in with my desktop
[05:31] <jenda> nixternal: i was going to ask there, but I  thought I should leave it up to you... but since you still haven't by today ;)
[05:32] <nixternal> ask where?
[05:32] <jenda> -doc
[05:32] <nixternal> i think i may have previously, and that is how i got the "mailman" answer
[05:32] <nixternal> but i can't remember, since it was a couple of week ago
[05:33] <jenda> The reason I ask there is because they are usually the ones who take care of *ubuntu.com, such as M. East now.
[05:33] <nixternal> ahhh...i got an email yesterday about Ubuntu hosting for Chicago, and they will have it set up for me next week..so i will have chi.ubuntu-us.com
[05:35] <jenda> hosting - but not a mailing list, right?
[05:36] <nixternal> ya
[05:36] <nixternal> they were quick on that..in an hour i had a response by 2 people, and a link to add a support ticket for it
[05:37] <jenda> hehe
[05:37] <jenda> Soo... we have a name, nixternal
[05:37] <jenda> Jeff Waugh, AKA jdub
[05:37] <mdke> I'm afraid that the mailing list guy is pretty slow in answering things, I will poke him
[05:37] <nixternal> jenda: i have emailed him and didn't get a response
[05:37] <jenda> Thanks, mdke
[05:37] <mdke> hopefully the system will be improved greatly in the future
[05:38] <nixternal> mdke: just don't beat um up ;)
[05:38] <mdke> nixternal: he owes me a response to several emails too :)
[05:38] <nixternal> i know the hosting guys are on top of their stuff
[05:38] <nixternal> hehe
[05:38] <jenda> mdke: I think a person with more spare time would suit it OK ;)
[05:38] <nixternal> you knwo what mdke, i believe you and i spoke about this previously as there were others with the same issue one night
[05:38] <mdke> jenda: in the future there will be someone whose job is dedicated to getting these things arranged quickly
[05:39] <jenda> Perfect ;)
[05:39] <nixternal> excellent
[05:39] <mdke> gtg
[05:39] <nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoHosting    <- jenda there you go...i will get the email and forward it to you so you can see what they said and what to do
[05:39] <nixternal> l8r mdke, thank you
[05:40] <jenda> nixternal: our loco has ubuntu.cz
[05:40] <nixternal> well then ;)
[05:40] <jenda> and lists.ubnutu.cz :-D
[05:40] <jenda> we have 3 (THREE) lists of our own :)
[05:40] <nixternal> i misread something up a few lines, that is why i posted that ;)
[05:40] <nixternal> jenda: quit rubbing it in ;)
[05:40] <nixternal> we have 0
[05:40] <nixternal> lol
[05:40] <jenda> Ubnutu-cz users, ubuntu-cz translators and ubuntu-cz core ;)
[05:41] <adamant1988> I'm back
[05:41] <jenda> the core is for the four of us that run the website and the team.
[05:41] <nixternal> ya, you guys are doing more then LoCo, which I hope Chicago does as well
[05:41] <nixternal> we have a few big time coders in Chicago coming out
[05:41] <adamant1988> I'm thinking about setting up an official loco team...
[05:41] <jenda> Well - you guys are way more active than us... even though we have our own country and language to run in :)
[05:41] <nixternal> one guy was one of the original members for Netscape Chicago in the early 90's
[05:41] <jenda> hehe
[05:41] <nixternal> true
[05:42] <nixternal> Ubuntu Chicago will eventually become Ubuntu Illinois though
[05:42] <adamant1988> But anywho, Jenda, what information would I need to gather to make a solid arguement for boxed sets?
[05:42] <jenda> adamant1988: I recommend contacting the german company, and discussing EN language sets with them.
[05:42] <nixternal> as it seems there are a lot of people out of the area that are interested..i told them to get a LoCo going and I would be more then happy to sponsor them under Chicago, and if we get enough we will turn into Ubuntu Illinois
[05:43] <adamant1988> I can show a demand pretty easily via a few polls etc.
[05:43] <jenda> Then, when they refuse, you can start arranging for the material to be ready... you can ask them to donate the source for those boxes.
[05:44] <nixternal> better have 100k involved in the poll w/ no less then a 2% range
[05:44] <jenda> no idea - this is adamant1988's business :)
[05:44] <nixternal> hehe
[05:45] <adamant1988> Yeah, I can't imagine the german company being all english friendly =\
[05:45] <nixternal> i would like to see box sets, but that is Canonical business, and they say they will never commercialize, but you never know i guess
[05:46] <nixternal> adamant1988: nobody likes the US, can you blame them?   you just have to roll with it, and be all CoC and stuff
[05:46] <jenda> I like the US :-D
[05:46] <nixternal> i do to, but there are billions of others who don't ;)
[05:46] <adamant1988> I don't mind us, I disagree with our political holding right now, but that's going to change drastically in 2008 anyway.
[05:46] <nixternal> we hope
[05:47] <adamant1988> meh that's off topic
[05:47] <jenda> But there are billions of people who speak english - perhaps hundreds would buy the boxed sets.
[05:47] <nixternal> im a republican and i don't like what we have now
[05:47] <adamant1988> I'd buy more than one.
[05:47] <bigtoe> you sound like me nix
[05:47] <nixternal> hehe
[05:47] <adamant1988> I have some family who could use the manual included...
[05:47] <nixternal> how do you know bigtoe, we have never talked on the phone, you have no idea what my voice sounds like...you can't hear me on irc ;)
[05:47] <adamant1988> and they'll never be able to find that wiki easily.
[05:47] <nixternal> lol
[05:48] <bigtoe> hah
[05:48] <nixternal> hehe
[05:48] <jenda> adamant1988: at the same time, you can start a wiki to outline what the boxed set should be for/contain, how would it be made (hire a company? Get volunteer manufacturers..?)
[05:49] <bigtoe> it would seem a similar sense of humor as well
[05:49] <nixternal> haha
[05:49] <adamant1988> am I allowed to start wikis on the ubuntu site?
[05:50] <nixternal> of course adamant1988
[05:50] <nixternal> you want me to create the page for you to edit?
[05:50] <nixternal> actually, you can do it yourself, it is easy
[05:50] <nixternal> jenda: should it be under /MarketingTeam?
[05:50] <adamant1988> Oh no that's fine, I just thought you needed special access or something.
[05:50] <jenda> Let's make it MT/BoxedSets
[05:50] <jenda> yes, nixternal ;)
[05:50] <nixternal> k
[05:50] <nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/BoxedSets
[05:50] <nixternal> click it and make it ;)
[05:51] <jenda> adamant1988: you need a LP account
[05:51] <adamant1988> have it already lol
[05:51] <nixternal> are you an Ubuntero?
[05:51] <adamant1988> Ubuntero?
[05:51] <nixternal> sign the CoC
[05:51] <nixternal> you become an ubuntero..it is a must in order to be part of any Ubuntu Community Team ;)
[05:52] <nixternal> you have a gpg key yet?
[05:52] <nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GnuPrivacyHowto
[05:52] <nixternal> hah
[05:52] <nixternal> i was close
[05:52] <adamant1988> lol
[05:52] <nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto
[05:52] <jenda> hehe
[05:52] <adamant1988> looks empty
[05:53] <adamant1988> oh not now
[05:53] <adamant1988> ok
[05:53] <nixternal> i love my aliases
[05:53] <nixternal> that will take you through so you can sign the CoC and become an Ubuntero
[05:53] <nixternal> jenda: speaking of that, maybe you should put that on the list in order to become a member, you gotta sign the CoC...if it isn't already there of course ;)
[05:54] <jenda> Not a bad idea... but I don't feel like checking all the current members if they are Ubunteros already :)
[05:54] <nixternal> i can do that quickly
[05:55] <jenda> Well... you know what? I wouldn't do that. So far - I insisted on the project leaders and channel operators signing the CoC...
[05:55] <nixternal> ok
[05:55] <jenda> Or... I dunno... I'll give it some more thought :)
[05:56] <nixternal> sounds good to me...add it as an a-jenda to tomorrows meeting, let it be known it would be "nice" if everyone could sign the CoC that hasn't yet ;)
[05:56] <adamant1988> So what should I put in the wiki?
[05:57] <nixternal> stuff
[05:57] <nixternal> ;)
[05:57] <nixternal> you need to do it almost like a spec, actually if you have enough info, you should create a spec on it
[05:57] <nixternal> you should use a spec page template
[05:58] <adamant1988> I haven't gathered nearly enough.
[05:58] <jenda> You might still want to start it as a spec template
[05:58] <adamant1988> Ok, how do I that?
[05:58] <jenda> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/BoxedSets
[05:58] <jenda> It'll tell you there is no such page
[05:59] <jenda> and ask if you want a template
[05:59] <nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/BoxedSets?action=show
[05:59] <nixternal> there you go
[05:59] <nixternal> i just did it for you
[05:59] <adamant1988> lol I caught that, thanks.
[05:59] <nixternal> just get my name out of there, so when you have Canonical come hunting you down, they don't bother me ;)
[06:00] <jenda> haha ;)
[06:00] <adamant1988> lol sure thing
[06:01] <kgoetz> hey all
[06:01] <jenda> oi, kk
[06:01] <adamant1988> is the code portion necessary for it?
[06:01] <nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/NonComSupportSpec    <- you can use that as a template
[06:01] <jenda> adamant1988: no
[06:01] <nixternal> nothing is necessary, you can edit it so it fits
[06:02] <adamant1988> ok I'm taking that out then.
[06:05] <nixternal> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DrinkingFromTheFirehose    <- that is by far my most favorite spec
[06:07] <adamant1988> lol
[06:07] <adamant1988> I'm trying to download this cedega free trial...
[06:07] <adamant1988> not working... that's why I'm not working on the spec right now
[06:08] <nixternal> bah...cedega is...well i can't talk bad about cedega in a marketing channel..as cedega will help us win points in marketing
[06:08] <nixternal> however, there is a "Portland Project" that aims to make everything work for Linux it seems
[06:11] <Klaidas> hello there ;)
[06:11] <kgoetz> hi
[06:11] <kgoetz> nixternal: feel free to not like cedega :)
[06:12] <nixternal> im not a gamer for one, and i only tried it one time last year
[06:12] <jenda> hello Klaidas
[06:12] <nixternal> i have heard it has gotten better
[06:12] <adamant1988> ok it's downloading I think.. I'll just work on the wiki...
[06:13] <adamant1988> it's not for me..
[06:13] <adamant1988> My sister wants to switch to Ubuntu, but there is this one game she HAS to have that her friends play.
[06:13] <kgoetz> i gave my steam account to a mate, wasnt worth trying to make it run
[06:13] <nixternal> kgoetz and jenda +1,434.489.343.983
[06:13] <nixternal> so much for commas
[06:13] <kgoetz> hehe
[06:13] <adamant1988> yeah, that number looks a lot less pretty without them
[06:13] <jenda> haha ;)
[06:14] <jenda> looks like kgoetz gets +1 and I get a weird IP address...
[06:14] <nixternal> where is gnomefreak, him and i yesterday at the CC kept doing +1, and they are like ummm...only the CC can vote...LOL
[06:14] <jenda> hehe ;)
[06:14] <nixternal> then jenda gave me the shush....good times ;)
[06:15] <kgoetz> hehe jenda
[06:15] <nixternal> you can always count on jenda to give you the shush when need be, that is for sure
[06:15] <kgoetz> lol nixternal, nice
[06:15] <jenda> I gave you the shush on "I'm available for IRC-operatorship ;)
[06:15] <nixternal> ya, i got messaged with a thank you reply on that also
[06:15] <adamant1988> did you get accepted nixternal?
[06:15] <gnomefreak> what i miss
[06:15] <nixternal> don't know yet
[06:15] <nixternal> hahah there is
[06:15] <nixternal> there he is
[06:15] <gnomefreak> ;)
[06:16] <nixternal> gnomefreak, only the CC can vote ;)
[06:16] <gnomefreak> lol
[06:16] <nixternal> you and i were like +1, -1, blah blah
[06:16] <gnomefreak> they asked for our input anyway after i did that
[06:16] <nixternal> sorry of the OT there ;)
[06:16] <jenda> The IRC guidelines say "Don't ask for ops - you will be ignored"... and that's exactly what would happen, and happenned to me. I was afraid you might ask again ;)
[06:17] <jenda> Ah! Inkscape 0.44 installed ;) How modest the version numbering is.
[06:17] <nixternal> ya jenda, that is why i kinda refraised it with, i am always available if needed ;)
[06:17] <nixternal> i got a "you may be needed soon"
[06:17] <nixternal> reply
[06:17] <jenda> Ah I see ;)
[06:17] <nixternal> lol
[06:17] <jenda> Cool.
[06:17] <nixternal> not cool
[06:18] <jenda> ah
[06:18] <nixternal> jenda from now on, give the shush [notice]  b4 a meeting begins LOL
[06:18] <jenda> hehe ;)
[06:18] <jenda> nixternal: shush!
[06:18] <nixternal> gahaha
[06:23] <jenda> Alright, nixternal, you can talk again 
[06:23] <jenda> :-D
[06:23] <nixternal> hahah
[06:23] <kgoetz> ooh, theres that smilie
[06:24] <nixternal> im reading #kubuntu cuz there is a guy in there helping out, but doing it against the CoC
[06:24] <adamant1988> what is the coc?
[06:24] <adamant1988> lol...
[06:24] <jenda> the Code of Conduct
[06:25] <adamant1988> Ah.  What's he doing that violates the CoC?
[06:26] <Cody> What is it?
[06:27] <nixternal> he is just being somewhat rude and obnoxious, but he is trying to help someone at the same time
[06:27] <Cody> weird
[06:27] <gaz00> Cody:  http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
[06:27] <jenda> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
[06:27] <jenda> gah
[06:27] <jenda> ;)
[06:27] <gaz00> i win. ;)
[06:27] <Cody> lol, thanks
[06:27] <kgoetz> hehe.
[06:34] <adamant1988> I edited the spec... did I get everything?
[06:34] <jenda> lemme see
[06:35] <jenda> add a picture of the german box
[06:35] <adamant1988> ok
[06:36] <kgoetz> a spec for boxed ubuntu?
[06:36] <kgoetz> Ubuntu: think inside the circle your put in
[06:37] <adamant1988> lol wow.
[06:38] <adamant1988> I can't find a pic of the german boxed sets...
[06:44] <kgoetz> adamant1988: you specs link?
[06:44] <adamant1988> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/BoxedSets
[06:46] <kgoetz> sets in stors is a <- missing e :|
[06:47] <jenda> nitpick
[06:48] <kgoetz> actualy, more flamebait then anything else on reflection
[06:48] <adamant1988> haha, I knew there would be a spelling error
[06:48] <adamant1988> never failes.
[06:49] <kgoetz> adamant1988: if you want your email available i sugest you put it on your LP page, not your wiki page, as the wiki doesnt hide email from bots iirc
[06:49] <adamant1988> ;)
[06:49] <kgoetz> :)
[06:49] <adamant1988> is it on the wiki?
[06:49] <kgoetz> i think so - goes to look again
[06:50] <kgoetz> Adam135 you?
[06:50] <adamant1988> yeah
[06:50] <kgoetz> then yes, 2 email addies
[06:50] <kgoetz> 3 actually
[06:53] <kgoetz> anyone know about the compressed loopoback filesystem used in knoppix? how easy would it be to make an ubuntu package cd using that? you can fit 2~GB onto a standard 600mb cd, so it would be cool to be able to do (esp. with 700mb cds)
[06:54] <adamant1988> that would be nice.
[06:54] <kgoetz> yeh. i was just thinking about cd distribution, and main is 4-5 gig. (3 cds like that, but 7 or 8 without)
[06:55] <kgoetz> "Due to on-the-fly decompression, the CD can have up to 2 GB of executable software installed on it"
[06:55] <kgoetz> hm
[06:55] <adamant1988> IT would be nice if the main install CD used that.
[07:02] <adamant1988> probably bugs in it, could cause data to become unreliable... who knows...
[07:07] <kgoetz> anyway, night all
[07:07] <kgoetz> :) see you later
[07:09] <jenda> Klaidas: welcome to the Marketing Team ;)
[07:09] <Klaidas> yay! :)
[07:09] <adamant1988> hey Klaidas :)
[07:09] <Klaidas> thanks
[07:10] <kgoetz> btw adamant1988, knoppix uses "cloop", aka compressed loopback
[07:10] <adamant1988> so why doesn't Ubuntu?
[07:37] <Cody> does it take longer to startup? the ubuntu cd already takes a while
[07:44] <Klaidas> Hmm, the wiki (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings ) says that the next meeting will happen at Thursday, July 13 at 20:00 UTC. But #ubuntu-meeting's topic says it will happen at 13 Jul 19:00 UTC Whick one is the correct time?
[07:44] <Klaidas> *Which
[07:48] <bigtoe> that's a good question
[07:52] <jenda> Klaidas: Lemme check if i sent a wrong email to robitaille... or if I put it up wrong on the wiki :)
[07:52] <Klaidas> ok :)
[07:52] <bigtoe> i am looking at my team membership on launchpad and it says that my membership expires in 16 days. How would I go about pushing that date out a bit?
[07:55] <jenda> bigtoe: when it expires, ask an administrator to reactivate you.
[07:55] <jenda> If you don't mind.
[07:55] <bigtoe> ok
[07:55] <bigtoe> no problem
[07:55] <bigtoe> i just wanted to know the correct procedure
[07:58] <jenda> no problem at all. I wonder if people will worry about that. If they start, I guess we will have to prolong memberships.
[07:58] <jenda> bigtoe: it'll be one year long next time.
[07:58] <matthewrevell> Just a quick one ... I'm gonna mention the Ubuntu Marketing team on LugRadio, when we record this evening. Any thoughts, people, on what I need to get across to encourage people to join us?
[07:58] <jenda> matthewrevell: !!! :)
[07:58] <bigtoe> jenda: thanks
[07:58] <jenda> OK...
[07:58] <matthewrevell> matthewrevell: Hey, how was your trip?
[07:58] <jenda> matthewrevell: how much time do I have to think about it?
[07:59] <jenda> not the trip ;)
[07:59] <jenda> The trip was good.
[07:59] <matthewrevell> Um ... around 30 mins. Sorry, I've been at a funeral today, so wasn't able to jump in and mention it earlier.
[07:59] <matthewrevell> Glad the trip went well :)
[08:00] <jenda> no prob
[08:07] <Cody> Is anyone here running Kubuntu? Xubuntu?
[08:09] <jenda> not I
[08:10] <Cody> anyone else, we need some screenshots, I already put some ubutnu w/ gnome ones
[08:11] <jenda> matthewrevell: focus it around the fact that we try to offer mainly to loco teams and local initiatives on the part of SU, mainly new users for the Mag, and the Press/Media for the Media Relations Project...
[08:11] <jenda> Most of the stuff we will gladly pick up on doing will be marketing activities that can be adopted later by others...
[08:14] <gnomefreak> Cody: of what?
[08:15] <Cody> lots of things
[08:16] <Cody> the orginal theme and wallpaper, then a different theme and wallpaper , and then with a few apps open
[08:17] <gnomefreak> ok i can do that (unless you want dapper)
[08:17] <jenda> gnomefreak: that would be better
[08:17] <Cody> preferably
[08:17] <jenda> Cody: thanks for the input.
[08:17] <gnomefreak> if you can give me a day i can have it for you tomorrow
[08:18] <gnomefreak> i will be sitting at a dapper pc later tonight
[08:18] <jenda> Keep in mind, however, that the wiki is there to discuss the content of each section, so I put back the bit you removed.
[08:18] <Cody> okay
[08:19] <Cody> if we have a selection of screenshots by the time the site is up, it will be quite handy
[08:20] <jenda> True
[08:21] <Cody> do you have an idea of when the site will possibly up
[08:22] <jenda> My goal is the end of August. I'm not sure if it's doable or not.
[08:22] <Cody> ok
[08:38] <gnomefreak> its not lookinggood for xfce screenshots
[08:38] <gnomefreak> xfce is still borked
[08:48] <jenda> Burgwork, mdke ping?
[08:55] <Cody> gnomefreak, ok, I was just trying to get some stuff together, some screenshots would still be nice
[08:56] <gnomefreak> Cody: tonight i will grab some of kubuntu would do it on edgy since its 3.5.3 anyway but the background says edgy eft kernel and some other stuff but ill get some tonight
[08:57] <Cody> thank you verymuch
[08:57] <gnomefreak> yw
[08:58] <Cody> It would be really nice if the site was up earlier
[09:05] <Burgwork> jenda, pong
[09:05] <jenda> Burgwork: I'm working on creating a bzr branch for SU
[09:05] <jenda> I have a product, a spec... but no branch.
[09:06] <Burgwork> in lp?
[09:06] <jenda> Yes
[09:06] <Burgwork> hmm, not the best person to ask
[09:06] <Burgwork> try #launchpad
[09:07] <jenda> OK, I'm in there. No Ubuntu-knowledgeable people around ;) But they gave me good howtos since I pinged you, So I'm working on it.
[09:07] <jenda> Have a look at the design proposals on the wiki
[09:07] <jenda> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/SpreadUbuntu#head-0202bdc0f2e0e5d3cb074109cf42d8a323126c61
[09:10] <WildTangent> hello
[09:11] <Cody> hey
[09:13] <jenda> lo
[09:13] <jenda> Burgwork: using LP/bzr seem
[09:13] <jenda> err
[09:13] <jenda> seems very complicated
[09:13] <jenda> you need a SSH key
[09:13] <jenda> And using quite advanced methods of checking out etc. for normal users.
[09:14] <Burgwork> umm,shouldn't need any of that
[09:14] <WildTangent> i can vouch for bzr
[09:15] <WildTangent> its really not that hard
[09:15] <WildTangent> as for the ssh key, thats not difficult either
[09:15] <jenda> "Branches are uploaded to Launchpad using the SFTP protocol. Authentication is done using the SSH public key system. The Ubuntu wiki has a good SSH Howto covering public key authentication and ssh-agent."
[09:15] <WildTangent> hold on, ill find the command
[09:15] <WildTangent> or better yet...
[09:15] <jenda> Well, I'm running it right now
[09:15] <Burgwork> that is for checkin, not checkout
[09:15] <WildTangent> one of the sites ive designed has a wiki entry on bzr
[09:16] <WildTangent> http://www.getautomatix.com/wiki/index.php/BzrHowto
[09:16] <jenda> I see
[09:16] <jenda> ooh automatix! :)
[09:16] <WildTangent> oh damn, it doesnt have the instructions for the key
[09:17] <jenda> No probs, I've got the key
[09:17] <WildTangent> ok, good
[09:17] <WildTangent> well, that howto teaches you all about bzr :)
[09:17] <WildTangent> jdong wrote it
[09:18] <WildTangent> ive done some development work on automatix (that swiftfox installation...thats all me baby :D), and using bzr made things so much easier to co-ordinate
[09:18] <WildTangent> what may i ask do you intend to use it for?
[09:20] <jenda> For Spreadubuntu
[09:20] <jenda> BTW, I'm on the easyubuntu team ;)
[09:21] <WildTangent> lol
[09:21] <WildTangent> well, i wont let that affect my work
[09:21] <WildTangent> we both have our strongpoints
[09:22] <jenda> hehe ;) Great.
[09:22] <jenda> Now back to bzr...
[09:22] <WildTangent> im not really actively involved with automatix anyway, im mainly just the webmaster, but now with the wiki, im not needed much anymore
[09:22] <WildTangent> ive even got mstlyevil updating the repos now
[09:23] <WildTangent> so i dont do much
[09:24] <WildTangent> ill brb, must reboot
[09:24] <WildTangent> kernel update
[09:36] <jenda> argh
[09:36] <jenda> WildTangent: can you help me create a branch, I just can't get it done.
[09:36] <WildTangent> sorry man, i didnt get that far :P
[09:37] <jenda> Ah well, #launchpad it is ;)
[09:49] <jenda> hello fouadbajwa
[09:53] <Cody> hello fouadbajwa
[09:55] <jenda> fouadbajwa: Welcome to the Marketing Team.
[09:55] <fouadbajwa> hi guys :)
[09:59] <fouadbajwa> thanks
[10:00] <fouadbajwa> i just received an email stating my status to approved for 30 days however i have been on the marketing mailing list for quite some time now :) just observer and learner :)
[10:00] <fouadbajwa> now i thought i should contribute some creative stuff as well :)
[10:01] <jenda> fouadbajwa: 30 days are default, we'll make it a year ifyou ask again in 30 days :)
[10:01] <fouadbajwa> oh, sure :)
[10:01] <jenda> WildTangent: can you help me get a SSH key on LP? I have trouble doing that. First I'd like to destroy one key which I probably created wrong.
[10:02] <WildTangent> alright
[10:02] <WildTangent> let me find the commands
[10:03] <jenda> thx
[10:03] <WildTangent> ssh-keygen -t rsa
[10:03] <WildTangent> that should put two files in your ~/.ssh folder
[10:04] <WildTangent> id_rsa
[10:04] <WildTangent> which is your private key
[10:04] <WildTangent> dont give that out to anyone ;)
[10:04] <WildTangent> and id_rsa.pub
[10:04] <WildTangent> copy the contents of the last one, and put it on launchpad
[10:04] <WildTangent> then youre done
[10:04] <WildTangent> :)
[10:05] <jenda> OK
[10:05] <fouadbajwa> what is the hour calculation difference between GMT and UTC time
[10:05] <jenda> fouadbajwa: +0
[10:05] <fouadbajwa> like i am +500 gmt
[10:06] <fouadbajwa> oh :)
[10:06] <jenda> 
[10:06] <fouadbajwa> so its the same :) actually we have only GMT standard here ;)
[10:07] <jenda> It's a few milliseconds off, I think.
[10:08] <fouadbajwa> oh, just didn't want to miss the marketing meeting tomorrow, so that means it will be around the same time as now tomorrow right
[10:08] <jenda> WildTangent: how do I make bzr know it's my key?
[10:09] <WildTangent> it automagically knows :)
[10:09] <jenda> Ah - after ssh-add ;)
[10:09] <WildTangent> its associated with your launchpad account
[10:09] <jenda> Well, I have the old, wrong key.
[10:09] <WildTangent> which you use for bzr
[10:09] <jenda> Now, the new one, lemme test ;)
[10:09] <WildTangent> you can get rid of it then
[10:09] <jenda> good
[10:09] <jenda> how?
[10:09] <jenda> (the new one works
[10:09] <jenda> )
[10:09] <fouadbajwa> create a new one, upload a new one and there u go
[10:10] <fouadbajwa> :)
[10:10] <WildTangent> excellent
[10:10] <jenda> I want to delete the old from my PC, not on LP - that's done.
[10:10] <WildTangent> not neccesary, but you can if you want
[10:11] <jenda> it's just the two files, right?
[10:18] <WildTangent> ya
[10:18] <jenda> OK
[10:18] <WildTangent> you might be safer just leaving it
[10:18] <jenda> WildTangent: could you please send me a zip of that mockup of yours?
[10:19] <WildTangent> http://www.w1ldt4ng3nt.net/files/spreadubuntu.zip
[10:21] <bigtoe> jenda: did the time of the meeting tomorrow get straightened out?
[10:22] <jenda> yes
[10:22] <jenda> that was my bad
[10:22] <jenda> Sorry.
[10:22] <jenda> it's 20:00
[10:22] <bigtoe> good deal, thanks
[10:26] <jenda> np
[10:28] <gnomefreak> 20 UTC?
[10:29] <jenda> yep
[10:29] <jenda> or not?
[10:30] <jenda> it's what was announced
[10:30] <jenda> Gah
[10:30] <jenda> damn me!
[10:30] <gnomefreak> lol
[10:30] <Klaidas> :)
[10:30] <jenda> The mistake was on the wiki, not on the fridge.
[10:30] <jenda> Argh.
[10:30] <gnomefreak> im just making sure that i got the time right
[10:30] <jenda> Poor robitaille, I'll have to bother him again
[10:32] <gnomefreak> ok to get this straight its still 20:00 UTC right?
[10:33] <mdke> jenda: pong
[10:34] <jenda> mdke: just a bit too late :)
[10:34] <jenda> gnomefreak: no, it's 19
[10:34] <mdke> jenda: ok
[10:34] <jenda> just changed it back - the wiki was wrong
[10:34] <jenda> mdke: I opened a spreadubuntu bzr branch
[10:34] <gnomefreak> ok 19
[10:34] <gnomefreak> lol
[10:34] <jenda> I found out that it is http accessible afterall
[10:34] <Klaidas> ok, so 19 it is :)
[10:35] <mdke> jenda: cool
[10:35] <jenda> but takes time to sync
[10:35] <jenda> dunno how long
[10:38] <jenda> It's 19
[10:40] <bigtoe> 19 and that's my final offer
[10:40] <jenda> sold!
[10:41] <bigtoe> excellent
[10:41] <Klaidas> hehe
[10:42] <gnomefreak> who runs shipit?
[10:43] <jenda> Canonical, and Marilize Coetzee is the usual contact, I think.
[10:44] <gnomefreak> ty
[10:45] <jenda> np
[10:46] <mdke> gnomefreak: if it is a bug in the software tho, you can file it on launchpad
[10:46] <gnomefreak> nope
[10:46] <gnomefreak> this is a bug in the choice to lose the alternative
[10:46] <mdke> that's not a bug
[10:46] <mdke> that's a commercial decision
[10:46] <gnomefreak> i know
[10:46] <gnomefreak> one of my pcs cant install from the live cd
[10:47] <mdke> right, so you need to download the alternative
[10:47] <mdke> or maybe someone can lend it to you, if that isn't an option
[10:47] <gnomefreak> yes i know but i want to know why did they discontinue the live
[10:47] <gnomefreak> i have the alternative
[10:48] <mdke> they didn't discontinue the live, it is the only one they ship now
[10:48] <gnomefreak> alternative*
[10:48] <gnomefreak> i got my ship it already
[10:49] <mdke> ok.
[10:49] <bigtoe> my first shipit is almost gone
[10:49] <mdke> they discontinued the alternative because it is too expensive to ship more than one type
[10:49] <gnomefreak> the point of shipit is to send cds out for people that dont have a fast conn. or cant spend the money to download (charged by min)
[10:49] <Burgwork> it is
[10:49] <mdke> right
[10:49] <Burgwork> that is why they ship the cds int he first place
[10:50] <gnomefreak> the livecd say on my pc isnt gonna work (im sure others say issue arises)
[10:50] <Burgwork> what they used to ship was essentially two copies of the same stuff
[10:50] <Burgwork> now they only ship one
[10:50] <gnomefreak> s/say/same
[10:50] <Burgwork> the live cd will work on anything newer than 2000
[10:51] <mdke> gnomefreak: that's a bug, but it wasn't important enough as saving money on shipit
[10:51] <mdke> imagine how much its costs...
[10:51] <gnomefreak> proposal = make the person able to choose what one they want   or go back to alternative ship?
[10:51] <Burgwork> you mean, ship the old fugly d-i?
[10:51] <gnomefreak> mdke: mine wont install due to nvidia driver
[10:51] <Burgwork> or ship both
[10:51] <Burgwork> neither are going to happen
[10:51] <Burgwork> gnomefreak, file a bug
[10:52] <gnomefreak> Burgwork: cant its not the software sort of vesa doesnt work with my nvidia
[10:52] <gnomefreak> played with that for a month
[10:52] <mdke> gnomefreak: your proposal is too expensive. If you will fund it, they'll probably consider it
[10:52] <Burgwork> sorry, I don't fully understand
[10:52] <gnomefreak> vesa works fine on this nvidia
[10:52] <Burgwork> if it doesn't a work: file a bug
[10:53] <gnomefreak> how is it more money? its either or not both
[10:53] <Burgwork> that is the only way you are going to solve this issue, as what shipit ships has been decided and will not be changed
[10:53] <gnomefreak> not to mention the buggy installer that everyone now has
[10:54] <gnomefreak> if they cant install it its no good
[10:54] <jenda> I must agree with gnomefreak that the Live CD doesn't always work - I needed the alternate on my dad's PC. But I respect the decision - I'm happy they do the service in the first place.
[10:54] <gnomefreak> im fine with it as i will always have a working pc
[10:54] <Burgwork> then file a bug
[10:54] <gnomefreak> Burgwork: there are 1000'2 of bugs on it
[10:54] <gnomefreak> s/2/s
[10:54] <Burgwork> file another one
[10:54] <Burgwork> colin does get to them
[10:55] <mdke> jenda: that's the point, the service is an extra, rather than something we should expect
[10:55] <gnomefreak> jenda: im not saying i dont respect it
[10:56] <jenda> mdke: Yes, exactly.
[10:56] <gnomefreak> say they send 100 live cd's out (would have rather had the test last til atleast edgy) and 95 of them dont work how is that helpping ubuntu get users if the users are relying on that as a source for ubuntu?
[10:57] <mdke> gnomefreak: that's not a helpful statistic
[10:57] <Burgwork> the live cd installer is about reducing costs through shipit
[10:57] <mdke> because it's completely false
[10:57] <Burgwork> indeed
[10:58] <gnomefreak> out of 25 cds not a one of them work they all die around partitoner (bug already) but im sure im not the only one
[10:58] <mdke> gnomefreak: it's because of your particular hardware, not the cds
[10:58] <gnomefreak> no
[10:58] <gnomefreak> this is the installer bug
[10:58] <gnomefreak> on this pc
[10:58] <mdke> right, the installer doesn't work with your hardware
[10:59] <gnomefreak> so its not the same as the debian installer?
[10:59] <gnomefreak> code wise other than being gui
[11:00] <gnomefreak> xubuntu beta2 dapper live cd installer works ont his pc
[11:00] <Burgwork> the livecd installer (ubiquity) shares code with the debian installer, but much has changed
[11:03] <gnomefreak> like i said me personally i will always have a pc that works but im more concered about losing users over this (thought the reg. installer was a great idea) not sure how the installer itself saved money but thats my complaint and im sure that most of the bugs for ubiquity that have been traiged and no feedback either installed something else or had to download the alternative
[11:04] <Burgwork> ok, lets take those in order
[11:04] <Burgwork> 1. The livecd installer works
[11:05] <gnomefreak> not here
[11:05] <Burgwork> 2. The livecd installer saves money by only shipping 1 cd, instead of 2
[11:05] <gnomefreak> just the xubuntu beta
[11:05] <Burgwork> that means about 50% less cost
[11:05] <Burgwork> I have never tried ubiquity with xubuntu
[11:05] <gnomefreak> Burgwork: that was what i said only 1 cd
[11:05] <gnomefreak> alternaitve for the people that choose it and live for the people that choose it
[11:06] <gnomefreak> its still only shipping one
[11:06] <Burgwork> that means two cd pressing lines, which probably cost more money per unit
[11:06] <Burgwork> plus packaging, etc.
[11:06] <Burgwork> if you know enough to ask for the alternate, you can probably get your own cds
[11:09] <gnomefreak> Burgwork: look at it from my point of view i have 2 working pcs out of 2 but im going through bugs and looking at all these people that cant install it due to the software what are these people gonna do if they are from a place where internet cost 1$ per min on dial up?
[11:10] <mdke> I think this discussion isn't really helpful
[11:10] <mdke> because the decision was taken for money reasons
[11:11] <Burgwork> also for usability, the live cd installer is much nicer to use
[11:11] <mdke> unless you have a plan to provide the alternate cd at no extra cost, there is not a lot that can be done
[11:11] <bimberi> gnomefreak: btw the shipped edubuntu cd is the alternate - so there might be a workaround there.
[11:13] <gnomefreak> well i think than that should be in plain view for people to know edubuntu has teh old texted based installer so if your pc wont install with livecd you can order 5 edubuntu disks (or something like that?
[11:14] <gnomefreak> bimberi: as far as i know people most people (newusers) hav eno clue that edubuntu ships
[11:14] <gnomefreak> it very well could have been
[11:15] <bimberi> gnomefreak: it's on the edubuntu website
[11:15] <Burgwork> it hasn't been talked about for a very specific reason: edubuntu is not for general consumption
[11:15] <gnomefreak> mdke: Burgwork im sorry this was not to stir up shit
[11:16] <Burgwork> gnomefreak, tbh, I find the way you type very very hard to follow. your sentences are badly constructed with little punctuation. Makes it hard to find out exactly what you point s
[11:16] <Burgwork> but regardless, the way forward is not to complain, but to triage and help get bugs fixed in ubiquity
[11:16] <gnomefreak> i have trouble following me sometimes too
[11:17] <Burgwork> makes it hard to sell/market stuff
[11:17] <gnomefreak> i wasnt so much complaining as bringing it to people attention
[11:32] <bimberi> gnomefreak: well you've got me interested :).  I have seen a few reports of it not working.  I'll try some installs on my available hardware and get into LP.  However the only likely way forward, if there is an issue on a large subset of hardware, is that a new image is put together and shipped.
[11:33] <nixternal> it works on my laptop from the 90's ;)