[12:13] <LaserJock> so I fired off an "Edubuntu is totally what you want" email too
[12:14] <ogra> i had a mail from the "institute for german unemployees munich" today ... they use edubuntu everywhere and wanted to know if its leagal to use arial and verdana :)
[12:14] <crimsun> I hope you added the disclaimer that you're involved in it :)
[12:14] <crimsun> that's a pretty important clarification
[12:14] <crimsun> (to LaserJock )
[12:15] <LaserJock> crimsun: well, I'm just on the Edubuntu Council, that's not really "involved" ;-)
[12:15] <ogra> haha
[12:15] <crimsun> except you have source code going into it
[12:15] <ogra> crimsun, by the way ...
[12:15] <crimsun> ogra: hi
[12:15] <ogra> i have weird probs with an usb headset here
[12:15] <crimsun> dapper or edgy?
[12:15] <ogra> a pretty standard logitech 250 in edgy
[12:16] <ogra> it plays sound for about 1min ...
[12:16] <ogra> then it just gets quiet
[12:16] <crimsun> is there any weird spew in ``dmesg |tail''?
[12:16] <ogra> if i use xmms with alsa output it works fine 
[12:16] <ogra> nope, nothing in any logs
[12:17] <ogra> if i use ekiga or totem it doesnt ...
[12:17] <ogra> looks very much like gstreamer-alsa ...
[12:17] <crimsun> yes
[12:17] <crimsun> that was going to be my suggestion
[12:17] <crimsun> unfortunately I have not looked a gst-alsa
[12:17] <crimsun> a->at
[12:17] <ogra> oki
[12:18] <crimsun> if you can get debug spew from gst, that would rock
[12:18] <crimsun> please report a bug against it, sub me, and I'll take a look
[12:18] <ogra> is there any option i can set or something ? 
[12:18] <ogra> (to get debug output)
[12:19] <crimsun> there's an environment variable iirc
[12:19] <crimsun> otherwise, http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/data/doc/gstreamer/head/manual/html/section-checklist-debug.html
[12:19] <crimsun> level 3 should suffice
[12:19] <crimsun> seb would know
[12:20] <ogra> yay, thanks
[12:27] <crimsun> np
[01:37] <Amaranth> ogra: i've got the init stuff figured out, i think
[01:38] <Amaranth> ogra: fixing up debian/init.d.ex renaming it to debian/init.d will do the right thing, won't it?
[01:38] <LaserJock> good morning jsgotangco 
[01:40] <ogra> Amaranth, i susally use dh_installinit, no idea how cdbs handles that 
[01:40] <ogra> *usually
[01:40] <Amaranth> i'll soon see
[01:40] <Amaranth> setting up the control file now, then i think i just need to make willowng.files and willowng-config.files
[01:40] <ogra> and you should call update-rc.d in the postinst with the runlevels you want to install to
[01:41] <Amaranth> i have no idea where to install it to
[01:41] <ogra> what, the initscript ?
[01:41] <Amaranth> i'm guessing i have to do a postrm thing to run update-rc.d again
[01:42] <Amaranth> yeah
[01:42] <Amaranth> what runlevel and such, i mean
[01:44] <jsgotangco> good morning
[01:44] <ogra> add that to the postinst: update-rc.d willowng start 50 2 3 4 5 . stop 50 0 1 6 . >/dev/null
[01:47] <Amaranth> ok
[01:49] <ogra> argh, mdz just sent the UVF announcement i thought we'd have the day tomorrow ... gamned
[01:50] <ogra> *damned too
[01:50] <jsgotangco> yeah
[01:51] <jsgotangco> 7UTC meeting *shudder*
[01:51] <ogra> 7UTC is fine :)
[01:52] <jsgotangco> sure that's only 10am here :D
[02:16] <rodarvus> 7UTC is 4UTC here
[02:16] <rodarvus> freaking early :)
[02:18] <jsgotangco> hah
[02:22] <mdz> rodarvus: 7UTC is 4UTC? now that's a weird time zoen
[02:22] <mdz> zone
[02:23] <rodarvus> mdz: UTC-3 (America/Sao_Paulo)
[02:24] <rodarvus> actually, the new meeting times are quite bad for me, but they seem to be very popular with everyone else, so rearranging meeting times its surely not worth the trouble
[02:26] <mdz> rodarvus: UTC is UTC no matter where you are :-)
[02:26] <mdz> rodarvus: you and BenC get the worst of it on this schedule I think
[02:27] <rodarvus> infinity probably is in the same situation as we are too
[02:27] <jsgotangco> yep
[02:32] <bimberi> How the Marketing Team came up with its meeting time (19UTC) - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings (at the bottom)
[02:33] <jsgotangco> bimberi: dev teams rotate the meeting times
[02:33] <jsgotangco> since its so spread between continents
[02:33] <jsgotangco> so do other big teams
[02:34] <jsgotangco> the table is not new, it was an LP team initiative =)
[02:36] <bimberi> jsgotangco: i'm not saying it is - and it still has value to find the best rotation times
[02:36] <jsgotangco> yep
[02:38] <bimberi> (although it was the first place i saw it ;-)  )
[02:42] <jsgotangco> its a very effective table really
[02:42] <jsgotangco> most of the time we don't realize that we live in timezones way way apart
[03:13] <Amaranth> ok i suck at making packages
[03:17] <Amaranth> ogra: can you pull from http://dev.realistanew.com/willowng and see what i'm doing wrong?
[03:18] <bddebian> Heya
[03:18] <Amaranth> hey
[03:18] <bddebian> Hi Amaranth
[03:19] <Amaranth> crap my meeting calendar is out of date
[07:26] <mhz> jsgotangco: ping
[07:26] <jsgotangco> hi
[07:26] <mhz> jsgotangco: hi there. 
[07:26] <jsgotangco> whats up
[07:26] <mhz> jsgotangco: if I say that an ideal relation of an edubuntu env. (considering my reality of server)
[07:26] <mhz> is 1:7
[07:27] <mhz> 1 server for 7 clients
[07:27] <jsgotangco> err?
[07:27] <jsgotangco> ahhh
[07:27] <mhz> hehehe
[07:27] <jsgotangco> it really depends on your server
[07:27] <mhz> yup
[07:27] <jsgotangco> have you seen jim's ltsp sizing?
[07:27] <mhz> "if I say.."
[07:28] <mhz> Can i call each 1:7 environment a 'node' ?
[07:28] <mhz> and a lab can be made of many 'nodes'?
[07:28] <mhz> made = set
[07:28] <mhz> jsgotangco: nope, I have not yet
[07:29] <mhz> jsgotangco: ?
[07:29] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[07:29] <jsgotangco> sure
[07:30] <jsgotangco> you call each client a node
[07:30] <jsgotangco> much like how you call a network connection is
[07:30] <mhz> hmm, then if each client is a 'node', then what would you call '7 clients per 1 server'
[07:31] <jsgotangco> a solution?
[07:31] <jsgotangco> hehehe
[07:31] <mhz> I need to be specific because when I have said "Edubuntu is suitable for your lab"
[07:32] <mhz> they say, oh, well, my lab is about 40 pc's
[07:32] <mhz> then I gotta tell them "depending on your server" and etc
[07:32] <mhz> so, i wanna make my life simple from now on
[07:33] <mhz> "If you have this server, then you can have excellent performance using no more than 7 to 9 clients"
[07:33] <jsgotangco> just say thin clients?
[07:33] <mhz> BUT, yes "you can have on lab composed of many 1:7 environements"
[07:34] <mhz> but again, I still have no clue what to call this 1:7 env., man
[09:07] <crimsun> 'afternoon/'evening
[09:09] <ogra> moin :)
[09:10] <jsgotangco> hey
[10:06] <crimsun> ogra: hacky workaround if you need to use usb headset /right now/: invoke gstreamer-properties and change both sink & source to oss
[10:07] <crimsun> ogra: (if I think you're using ekiga or whatnot?)
[10:07] <ogra> will try
[10:09] <crimsun> sorry, it's 4 AM and I'm trying to proof a dissertation
[10:10] <ogra> dont worry about my bugs then, i'll find my way around :)
[10:11] <crimsun> well, I'm definitely devoted to making sure *buntu rocks for audio, so...
[10:11] <ogra> well, its early edgy time :)
[10:11] <ogra> bugs are expected :)
[10:12] <crimsun> are you using ekiga?
[10:12] <ogra> yup
[10:12] <ogra> we use it all over the company now
[10:12] <crimsun> hmm, there's a bug report against alsa-lib where the user says that edgy's ekiga version crashes for him
[10:13] <ogra> works fine here ....
[10:13] <ogra> i had no probs with ekiga itself so far
[10:13] <crimsun> ok, try using oss for GSt's sink and source
[10:13] <crimsun> it will not play nicely with alsa's dmix, however
[10:16] <ogra> hmm
[10:16] <ogra> ekiga itself only offers alsa support internally it seems
[10:17] <ogra> nope, still dies
[10:18] <crimsun> ah, if it only supports ALSA internally then setting GSt won't be of much use
[10:19] <Amaranth> ogra: one small bug with my package (both packages own /usr/share/willowng/willowng.glade) :/
[10:19] <Amaranth> i need to get the willowng package to create an empty /usr/share/willowng if it doesn't exist
[10:19] <Amaranth> actually, i'll just include an empty training.db
[10:20] <crimsun> ogra: ok, then I'll wait for debug output
[10:20] <ogra> /usr/share/willowng should work with a .dirs file in the debian dir
[10:20] <ogra> /usr/share/willowng/willowng.glade should only be in the gui package, no ?
[10:20] <Amaranth> yeah
[10:21] <ogra> so dont install it in the backend :)
[10:22] <Amaranth> what should i put in willowng.dirs to get it to make a /usr/share/willowng/?
[10:22] <ogra> usr/share/willowng/ i think
[10:24] <Amaranth> didn't work :/
[10:24] <Amaranth> i'll just include a training.db
[10:25] <Amaranth> i plan on eventually including some initial training anyway
[10:25] <ogra> just be careful with the content ;)
[10:26] <Amaranth> i can't include inappropriate words in the training.db?
[10:27] <ogra> sure you can
[10:27] <ogra> just dont add something thats not binary :)
[10:27] <Amaranth> it doesn't have any images or full webpages or anything
[10:27] <Amaranth> just words
[10:27] <ogra> yep
[10:31] <ogra> brb, reboot
[10:45] <Amaranth> brb, reboot (stupid sound)
[10:50] <Amaranth> hrm, long restart for ogra
[11:17] <Amaranth> ogra: http://dev.realistanew.com/releases/willowng/0.1/deb-src/
[11:19] <ogra> Amaranth, echo 'X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain=willowng' >> debian/tmp/usr/share/applications/willowng.desktop
[11:20] <ogra> whats that for ? 
[11:20] <Amaranth> langpack translation stuff
[11:20] <ogra> you could add it to the .desktop.in file , no ?
[11:20] <Amaranth> it's ubuntu specific
[11:20] <ogra> and ? other distros will just ignore it 
[11:20] <ogra> we have many upstreams that add it for us
[11:21] <Amaranth> next release :)
[11:21] <ogra> packge looks fine to me ...
[11:22] <ogra> lets see if it builds :)
[11:22] <Amaranth> heh
[11:22] <Amaranth> i built it in pbuilder once
[11:22] <Amaranth> and installed it on dapper and ran it
[11:24] <ogra> E: failed to find /var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz, have you done <pbuilder create> to create your base tarball yet?
[11:24] <ogra> ARGH !!!
[11:24] <Amaranth> ack
[11:36] <Amaranth_> oh suspend, why must you tease me?
[11:39] <ogra> well you *have* suspend ... be happy :)
[11:40] <crimsun> it's faster for me to shutdown and boot than to suspend-to-disk and resume
[11:42] <ogra> but suspend to ram rules :)
[11:42] <ogra> at least on this ibook (if it works)
[11:42] <Amaranth> if i hibernate i get a snowy screen on resume (like a TV with no reception)
[11:43] <Amaranth> if i suspend-to-ram it appears to do something for about 10 seconds then stops with the machine still on and no way of getting back to anything
[11:43] <Amaranth> this all worked when i first installed dapper (-23 kernel) :(
[11:43] <Amaranth> it worked on at least the -25 kernel for awhile too, i have no idea what changed
[11:50] <jsgotangco> gahh!! the power went out!
[11:51] <jsgotangco> ogra: it went out for more than an hour ;)
[11:51] <jsgotangco> there's a typhoon here
[11:51] <jsgotangco> haha
[12:26] <RichEd> ogra: ping
[12:26] <ogra> RichEd, pong
[12:27] <RichEd> ogra: what is your suggested install order for my Ubuntu / Edubuntu on top of XP ...
[12:28] <RichEd> ogra: and what help resources should i refer to ... (assume i am a newbie user)
[12:28] <ogra> doesnt matter, pick as you like 
[12:29] <ogra> in case you want the classroom server install (to demo ltsp or something) http://www.edubuntu.org/gettingstarted
[12:29] <ogra> else just pich the workstation option in the menu
[12:29] <ogra> *pick
[12:29] <RichEd> tx ...
[12:29] <ogra> the only glitch you might have is the partitioning
[12:30] <ogra> the rest of the install process will just work :)
[12:30] <RichEd> okay tx.
[12:31] <ogra> the stuff listed on the gettingstarted page will be adressed in edgy (no more editing of dhcp config files etc)
[12:32] <RichEd> i'll read through it all before i start tomorrow ... will ask questions if i have any ...
[12:32] <ogra> ok ;)
[12:33] <jsgotangco> its much easier to have XP first
[12:33] <jsgotangco> imo
[12:33] <jsgotangco> besides its already there
[12:33] <ogra> jsgotangco, yes, we discussed that yesterday, thats why RichEd said on top of XP i guess ;)
[12:33] <RichEd> jsgotangco: new notebook, had to pay for XP :)
[12:34] <jsgotangco> heh we could buy a notebook here with no OS
[12:34] <RichEd> am keeping XP for demo purposes, but want to dig into how to buy h/w without paying for throw-way os
[12:34] <ogra> Amaranth, hmm, we'll need a reboot notification for dbus 
[12:34] <ogra> Introspect error: The name com.ubuntu.WillowNG was not provided by any .service files
[12:34] <RichEd> found only 1 dealer in SA who will sell me a DOS notebook ...
[12:35] <jsgotangco> wow
[12:35] <RichEd> was saying to ogra that 150 euro (his discount in germany) is a weeks wages for a teacher in SA or 1 months room rental for a uni student
[12:35] <jsgotangco> the only ones with XP built in here are the big brands but even IBM sells a DOS notebook here
[12:36] <jsgotangco> 1 here is 60Pesos and the minimum wage here in the city is only 300Pesos
[12:36] <RichEd> Mr G has wrapped up Sotuh Africa ... is it the commercial gateway up into Africa ... so he spreads his influence & wicked stories very deeply
[12:37] <RichEd> South Africa
[12:37] <jsgotangco> so a typical good laptop model would be around 800
[12:38] <RichEd> Even for educational discount into schools via MS Government Agreement ... Office is Free, Encarta is Free, but must pay for OS "becuase giviing away an OS is a bad example & precedent"
[12:38] <jsgotangco> interesting
[12:38] <jsgotangco> over here BSA-led raids are pretty common lately
[12:40] <RichEd> I have just left HP ... they were talking about providing Ubuntu Notebooks (as in Germany) but due to lack of internal support from HP, they have gone with Linspire
[12:40] <ogra> Amaranth, the DAEMON= line in the initscript is wrong (poins to /usr/bin instead of /usr/sbin)
[12:41] <ogra> Amaranth, also /usr/sbin/willowng needs to return 
[12:42] <ogra> else the init script just hangs at Starting WillowNG: 
[01:00] <RichEd> highvoltage: hey there :) just sent you a mail
[01:09] <ogra> sooo, it seems firefox has a hard dependency on the ubuntu firefox icontheme now ...
[01:09] <highvoltage> RichEd: ok
[01:11] <ogra> which adds 1.2M of icon crap we dont use to the CD 
[01:11] <ogra> *sigh*
[01:11] <jsgotangco> okayyy
[01:12] <rodarvus> can't this dependency be made optional?
[01:12] <highvoltage> RichEd: which account?
[01:13] <ogra> rodarvus, see -devel
 OIC.  Without that if you launch firefox it will fail to start.
[01:13] <ogra> we *could* ship a crippled firefox (which is only needed as dependency for epiphany anyway)
[01:13] <ogra> but if users want to use it, they will complain
[01:15] <RichEd> @ubuntu.com
[05:28] <cbx33> hey guys how easy is it to run gnome and fluxbox side by side?
[05:28] <cbx33> i mean so I can logout and switch to another
[08:23] <LaserJock> ogra: is the bashism a problem with the move to that other shell (can't think of the name off the top of my head)?
[08:23] <ogra> dash
[08:24] <ogra> yes that a problem
[08:24] <LaserJock> right
[08:24] <ogra> ltsp-build-client fails currently, that will break the CD 
[08:24] <LaserJock> I didn't quite understand the dash/bash thing
[08:24] <LaserJock> so dash is used by the system, but bash by users?
[08:25] <ogra> yep
[08:25] <ogra> /bin/sh points to dash now
[08:25] <ogra> but users have /bin/bash in /etc/passwd
[08:25] <ogra> so as long as you log in you use bash ... and its builtins
[08:26] <LaserJock> that's somewhat confusing
[08:26] <ogra> but if a system script runs it uses /bin/sh ... which points to dash a ... with no builtins, way smaller footprint and ages faster
[10:44] <EmxBA> hi!
[10:45] <LaserJock> hi EmxBA 
[10:45] <EmxBA> hi LaserJock, anything new here connected to the "Schoolkids + Edubuntu cooperation" project'
[10:48] <LaserJock> not that I know, but I mostly lurk so it could have gone by my radar
[10:48] <EmxBA> :) ok
[10:49] <EmxBA> I am waiting for bluekuja to appear 'cause i need to talk to *her* and the rest of you
[10:50] <LaserJock> "her"? I think he's a he
[10:51] <EmxBA> *he* sorry
[10:51] <EmxBA> is it andrea? or something like that?
[10:51] <LaserJock> yeah
[10:51] <LaserJock> hard to tell with names
[10:52] <EmxBA> np