[12:34] <azeem> LaserJock: http://incoming.debian.org/ghemical_2.01-1_i386.changes
[12:44] <LaserJock> azeem: wahoo!
[12:48] <LaserJock> azeem: how long should it take to hit the archives? incoming is pretty fast, right?
[12:49] <azeem> it's past dinstall, it'll get installed tomorrow
[12:49] <azeem> in about 20 hours
[12:50] <LaserJock> great
[12:50] <LaserJock> have you seen the Ubuntu patches?
[12:51] <crimsun> (we can sync from incoming if you need it synced)
[12:52] <LaserJock> well, it won't hurt to wait
[12:52] <crimsun> surely won't
[12:54] <LaserJock> I'm just excited, that's all
[12:54] <crimsun> time to snarf some patches
[12:54] <LaserJock> it's the app that could make my department turn to linux :-)
[12:55] <LaserJock> mwuahahaha
[12:55] <azeem> LaserJock: I synced with Ubuntu in 1.91-3
[12:56] <LaserJock> azeem: ok, great. I hope we did things ok on the Ubuntu end
[12:56] <LaserJock> the more I work on Ubuntu the more I hate divergence
[12:57] <LaserJock> ok, I don't get the difference between Build-Depends and Build-Depends-Indep
[12:57] <azeem> Build-Depends-Indep is only useful if you build both binary-arch and binary-indep pacakges
[12:58] <azeem> you can put stuff in there which is needed during the build-indep: target
[12:58] <azeem> like tetex, jadetex, sgml stuff, etc.
[12:59] <LaserJock> hmm, so if a package has only binary-indep?
[01:00] <azeem> everything needed for clean: has to be in Build-Depends
[01:00] <LaserJock> right
[01:00] <LaserJock> and everything else in Build-Depends-Indep?
[01:00] <azeem> so I guess it makes no sense to split it up into B-D and B-D-I in those cases
[01:01] <LaserJock> I don't quit understand how to seperate what's Build-Depends and B-D-I
[01:01] <cbx33> I'm here
[01:01] <azeem> cbx33: welcome back
[01:01] <cbx33> hi azeem
[01:01] <LaserJock> I understand that B-D is for clean
[01:01] <azeem> LaserJock: I'd rather say B-D is for everything
[01:01] <LaserJock> well, yes
[01:02] <azeem> except for additional stuff needed for binary-all packages, like building documentation
[01:02] <LaserJock> but the difference between B-D and B-D-I seems to be mostly in the clean rule
[01:02] <azeem> that's just an artefact of policy IMHO
[01:02] <LaserJock> k
[01:03] <LaserJock> ok, so the Policy footnote has: If you make "build-indep" or "binary-indep", you need Build-Depends and Build-Depends-Indep.
[01:03] <azeem> hrm
[01:03] <LaserJock> so do you put everything but what is needed in clean: in B-D-I?
[01:05] <LaserJock> I *kinda* understand the difference between B-D and B-D-I but I don't quite get how you tell what to put in each
[01:05] <cbx33> and I'm completely lost on both
[01:06] <LaserJock> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html
[01:06] <azeem> LaserJock: both Build-Depends and Build-Depends-Indep (if present) need to be satisfied at build:
[01:06] <LaserJock> right
[01:06] <azeem> so most libfoo-dev are for Build-Depends
[01:06] <LaserJock> only B-D at clean
[01:07] <azeem> while the debhelper/cdbs/dpatch etc. stuff is needed at clean
[01:07] <azeem> unfortunately, there's no destinction between the two
[01:08] <azeem> but you can't put the libfoo-dev (which isn't needed at clean) into B-D-I, that would break debian/rules build-arch
[01:08] <azeem> if present
[01:08] <crimsun> cbx33: because you migrated B-D -> B-D-I in debian/control, you need to make the corresponding adjustments in debian/rules
[01:08] <cbx33> ok
[01:08] <cbx33> can you help me with that
[01:09] <cbx33> everything has been moved to build-indep
[01:09] <LaserJock> ok, so I'm guess (from the Policy and lintian output) that if you are using binary-indep you should put the all the deps in B-D-I except those needed for the clean rule
[01:09] <cbx33> which would be debhelper?
[01:09] <LaserJock> at least in cbx33's case were he has no binary-dep
[01:09] <LaserJock> cbx33: right
[01:11] <cbx33> so i need build-depends
[01:11] <azeem> note that the point of B-D-I was to avoid having to install those on the autobuilders
[01:11] <cbx33> and build-depends-indep
[01:11] <azeem> IMHO it's fine to just have everything in B-D for pure Arch: all packages, but maybe there is a rule against
[01:12] <crimsun> cbx33: things like cdbs, debhelper, and python should not be B-D-I
[01:12] <crimsun> cbx33: things like python-all-dev and python-central should be B-D-I
[01:13] <cbx33> ok
[01:13] <LaserJock> cbx33: I think you problem was because you had some stuff in binary-indep and some stuf in binary-arch
[01:13] <LaserJock> when you should have all of it in binary-indep
[01:14] <cbx33> :S:S:S
[01:14] <cbx33> crimsun, did you say I should split them
[01:14] <cbx33> and LaserJock did you say I shoulnd't?
[01:14] <LaserJock> not exactly
[01:14] <crimsun> you /should/ split them.
[01:15] <LaserJock> crimsun: binary-indep and binary-arch in debian/rules?
[01:16] <crimsun> I'm referring to debian/control atm
[01:16] <crimsun> I'll look at debian/rules now
[01:16] <LaserJock> yeah, I get that
[01:16] <cbx33> thanks crimsun
[01:17] <crimsun> heh, there's a fairly nice way to avoid it if you'd like
[01:17] <crimsun> switch to cdbs ;)
[01:17] <LaserJock> lol
[01:18] <cbx33> that built fine
[01:18] <LaserJock> make it disapper through magic
[01:18] <cbx33> so I've edited the control file
[01:18] <cbx33> what am I doing with rules
[01:19] <LaserJock> cbx33: can you pastebin your control and rules files?
[01:19] <cbx33> yes
[01:19] <cbx33> http://pastebin.ca/88444
[01:20] <LaserJock> hmm, I wonder how easy that would be with CDBS? a 2-3 liner?
[01:20] <cbx33> LaserJock, don;t even go there
[01:20] <cbx33> we can do that later
[01:21] <crimsun> no, it'd be about 10 lines
[01:21] <LaserJock> cbx33: hehe
[01:21] <crimsun> you'd need to redef binary-install
[01:21] <LaserJock> ah
[01:21] <cbx33> can you mod the pastebin?
[01:21] <cbx33> then I can copy and paste out
[01:22] <crimsun> (cdbs would need binary-install redefined for dh_pycentral and dh_python)
[01:22] <crimsun> hmph
[01:22] <LaserJock> really? I thought they magified it or something
[01:22] <LaserJock> cbx33: ok, that looks sane to me
[01:22] <LaserJock> crimsun: what do you think?
[01:23] <crimsun> he needs to run lintian
[01:23] <crimsun> I think it may barf on dh_py* being in binary-indep, which would make sense
[01:24] <LaserJock> hmmm
[01:24] <LaserJock> because of the compiling?
[01:24] <cbx33> pete@ubuntu:~/gisomount-build2$ lintian gisomount_1.0.1-0ubuntu1.dsc
[01:24] <cbx33> W: gisomount source: newer-standards-version 3.7.2
[01:24] <cbx33> pete@ubuntu:~/gisomount-build2$
[01:24] <crimsun> really need to clarify w/ doko
[01:24] <crimsun> I've seen python-central used in both B-D-I and B-D
[01:24] <cbx33> I'll upload what I have now shall I?
[01:25] <crimsun> cbx33: sure
[01:25] <cbx33> ok
[01:25] <cbx33> uploaded
[01:25] <cbx33> I'll await your approval guys
[01:26] <cbx33> thanks for the ehlp LaserJock and crimsun
[01:27] <LaserJock> haha, is that the British pronunciation, "ehlp"? :-)
[01:27] <cbx33> heheheh:p
[01:27] <cbx33> oi
[01:28] <cbx33> I'll buy you both a beer if I get to the next dev summit
[01:29] <cbx33> I'm off to bed
[01:29] <LaserJock> k, have a good sleep knowing that gisomount is much closer to being in Universe
[01:29] <cbx33> LaserJock, http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/gisomount-0607141620/lintian
[01:29] <cbx33> see the top error
[01:29] <cbx33> that happened when I changed it to edgy
[01:29] <cbx33> is that ok?
[01:30] <LaserJock> yeah
[01:30] <LaserJock> lintian doesn't know about edgy
[01:30] <cbx33> W: gisomount source: build-depends-without-arch-dep
[01:30] <cbx33> is the only issue to resolve
[01:32] <LaserJock> it's resolved, right?
[01:32] <cbx33> no
[01:32] <cbx33> that's the latest lintian
[01:32] <LaserJock> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/gisomount-0607141925/lintian
[01:32] <cbx33> but it doesn't show when I run it on my local machine
[01:33] <cbx33> oh
[01:33] <cbx33> ok
[01:33] <LaserJock> you didn't go to the latest upload
[01:33] <cbx33> i was wrong
[01:33] <cbx33> :D
[01:33] <LaserJock> it's now Ubuntu lintian/linda clean ;-)
[01:33] <crimsun> by-run, yes. But semantically, we should check w/ doko
[01:34] <cbx33> ok
[01:34] <cbx33> are you going to wait to upload until that is checked?
[01:35] <LaserJock> it's probably better to get it right the first time then have to upload a new package
[01:35] <LaserJock> I'm not sure what time doko will be around
[01:36] <LaserJock> but it shouldn't take too long to get it settled, and if anybody can settle it it'd be doko
[01:42] <cbx33> ok cool
[01:42] <cbx33> I think I have another pacakge I want put in universe
[01:42] <cbx33> well two
[01:42] <cbx33> one is mine
[01:42] <cbx33>  the other ...isn't
[01:42] <cbx33> but I'll get to that later
[01:43] <LaserJock> grasynco?
[01:43] <cbx33> that's one
[01:43] <cbx33> the other is the midisport-firmware package from sourceforge
[01:43] <cbx33> would be great for mucisians
[01:43] <_ion> Amen to that.
[01:44] <cbx33> _ion, you have a midisport?
[01:44] <cbx33> I don;t know if there are redistribution issues
[01:44] <cbx33> but I'll definitely look into it
[01:44] <crimsun> err, debhelper's listed in both B-D and B-D-I :)
[01:45] <crimsun> midisport-firmware-0606251930/
[01:45] <_ion> cbx33: I just installed the firmware uploader to a friend's computer a few days ago. :-) Personally i use pure hardware for making music, not software.
[01:45] <crimsun> upid=2505
[01:46] <cbx33> heheh
[01:46] <cbx33> :D
[01:48] <cbx33> right nn all
[01:49] <crimsun> err
[01:49] <crimsun> I was reviewing that one
[01:49] <crimsun> oh well
[02:47] <zul> hey
[02:47] <_ion> Bono estente.
[02:48] <_ion> ajmitch: Online?
[02:49] <ajmitch> partly
[02:51] <_ion> ajmitch: Have you noticed the patch i posted to bug #36531?
[02:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 36531 in f-spot "f-spot-screensaver and gnome-screensaver don't mix" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36531
[02:51] <ajmitch> yes, and I'd already made that change locally
[02:52] <ajmitch> thanks anyway
[02:52] <_ion> Nice, thanks.
[03:00] <zul> this is annoying
[03:01] <zul> anyone have a work around for the fonts fixed mess in edgy?
[03:01] <crimsun> well, you could just use non-ttf fonts  </ducks>
[03:01] <crimsun> err, non-ttf
[03:01] <crimsun> yay redundancy
[03:02] <zul> why i outta...:)
[03:03] <_ion> RAID-1 for IRC, yay.
[03:03] <_ion> RAID-1 for IRC, yay.
[04:27] <teferra> In rosetta if a translation team has not given a contact e-mail adress a message sent to the team is sent to all members. What is the adress of the team or where one sends the message then??ubuntu-l10n-ln@launchpad.net?
[05:09] <LaserJock> darn, sometimes the internet just bites
[05:12] <imbrandon> lol
[05:13] <LaserJock> my father-in-law got scammed out of $4000 his first time on Ebay :(
[05:13] <imbrandon> damm
[05:13] <LaserJock> poor guy
[05:13] <imbrandon> no buyer protection ?
[05:13] <LaserJock> apparently somebody sent an email scam off of something he was bidding on (a truck)
[05:14] <LaserJock> so it *looked* like Ebay
[05:14] <imbrandon> ouch
[05:14] <zul> ouch
[05:15] <zul> mental note dont trust the internet
[05:15] <imbrandon> heh
[05:15] <LaserJock> so he bid and the seller had a good rating and everything
[05:15] <LaserJock> and he was outbid
[05:16] <LaserJock> but then he got an email, supposedly from the seller, saying that the winner had backed out and so he was the new winner
[05:16] <LaserJock> they sent Ebay forms and all kinds of stuff
[05:16] <LaserJock> sounds pretty involved
[05:16] <imbrandon> oh damn yea
[05:16] <imbrandon> i guess people will do anything for money
[05:19] <zul> i wouldnt trust ebay
[05:31] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: my fan before sounds nothing like how sick it sounds right now :P
[05:31] <Hobbsee> hi all
[05:31] <fowlduck> hi Hobbsee
[05:43] <Hobbsee> anyone know how to have a pbuilder in a different architecture to the one you're building on?
[05:44] <Hobbsee>        export DEBIAN_BUILDARCH=athlon
[05:44] <Hobbsee>               Uses  this variable as DEBIAN_BUILDARCH.  This trick can be used
[05:44] <Hobbsee>               for other environmental variables as well.
[05:44] <Hobbsee> mayb
[05:44] <Hobbsee> e
[05:45] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: what arch do you have and what do you want?
[05:45] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: amd64, i want to build stuff in i386 for breezy and dapper
[05:46] <Hobbsee> well, the machine i'm building on is amd64, it's not mine :P
[05:46] <FunnyLookinHat> Does anyone here speak german?
[05:46] <Hobbsee> FunnyLookinHat: only a little, why?
[05:46] <FunnyLookinHat> Hobbsee, I found someone who has created MythTV .19 dapper packages already, and it would save me a ton of wasted effort if he is willing to submit them to REVU
[05:47] <FunnyLookinHat> But I think he speaks only german...
[05:47] <Hobbsee> FunnyLookinHat: ah, my german would cover none of those topics.  and are the packages any good?
[05:48] <FunnyLookinHat> Hobbsee, they are the packages that everone in #mythtv-users seem to suggest for ubuntu, and they all say they work great.  I am going to have a friend test them for me since I dont have my tv card anymore
[05:48] <FunnyLookinHat> Hobbsee, he's created them correctly with all the right changelog formatting and stuff
[05:48] <FunnyLookinHat> Hobbsee, http://hamsta.net/mythtv/files/dapper/
[05:48] <Hobbsee> FunnyLookinHat: ah okay.  just because they "work" doesnt make them get into repositories as such
[05:48] <FunnyLookinHat> that is his deb repo
[05:49] <FunnyLookinHat> Hobbsee, I understand this.  But as it is ubuntu multiverse REALLY needs to get the new versiion of mythtv in there because it has a TON of changes and bug fixes
[05:49] <FunnyLookinHat> lots of new features too
[05:49] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: you can pass --arch i386 to debootstrap so I would think you would be able to do something in pbuilder
[05:49] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: cool, okay
[05:52] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: possibly  --debootstrapopts --arch i386
[05:52] <Hobbsee> FunnyLookinHat: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/18054  It'll need a fair bit of work.
[05:53] <FunnyLookinHat> Hobbsee, Myabe I should just build the packages from the start?
[05:53] <Hobbsee> very interesting versioning, too
[05:53] <Hobbsee> FunnyLookinHat: that's more painful, i'd take chunks of that current package, and fix it.
[05:53] <LaserJock> well, take out the .svn and it isn't too bad ;-)
[05:53] <Hobbsee> and version it properly, yeah
[05:53] <FunnyLookinHat> Hobbsee, heh, well I guess I'll give it a try.   I have to go for now though.  Thanks for the info!
[05:54] <Hobbsee> FunnyLookinHat: lintian is your friend.  lintian *.dsc
[05:54] <crimsun> are you coordinating with MOTUMedia for mythtv?
[05:55] <crimsun> i.e., join the LP team, etc.
[07:24] <FunnyLookinHat> crimsun, Yea, I'm trying to get in contact with MOTUMedia - They really should be heading up where I take this
[07:25] <FunnyLookinHat> I know it's a bad time to go looking around for people who are on the MOTUteam, hah.  Maybe tommorow : )
[07:48] <Hobbsee> any MOTU's around?
[07:52] <FunnyLookinHat> apparently not.  ; )
[07:54] <Hobbsee> yeah, probably not
[07:54] <rob> what about MOTUWannabes, do they count?
[07:54] <FunnyLookinHat> I am holding off on my annoying questions till later
[07:54] <FunnyLookinHat> LOL
[07:55] <FunnyLookinHat> nice rob
[07:55] <rob> :)
[07:55] <Hobbsee> rob: no, not unless you have upload rights.
[07:55] <rob> hehe
[07:55] <rob> no
[07:55] <Hobbsee> seeing as MOTU candidates dont either (bring on wednesday!)
[08:01] <Toadstool> hi everybody
[08:06] <Hobbsee> hey Toadstool!
[08:07] <Toadstool> hi Hobbsee
[08:41] <heretician> What is the package called that will automatically install all apps needed for Packaging?
[08:45] <Hobbsee> heretician: apt-get build-dep foo?
[08:45] <Hobbsee> heretician: oh...ah, build-essential devscripts lintian
[08:45] <Hobbsee> just install them as you need them
[08:45] <Hobbsee> pbuilder
[08:46] <heretician> I wanted that package because it seemed to just plainly cover every one of them
[08:46] <heretician> and/or install every one of them, but I have a fairly large HD so i'm okay
[08:46] <Hobbsee> heretician: no you dont.
[08:46] <Hobbsee> :P
[08:46] <heretician> 1TB!?
[08:48] <heretician> build-essential was correct, thanks. And I don't have 1TB, just over 80gb actually heh heh
[08:49] <Hobbsee> like i say, you dont really want the entire archive on your machine
[08:49] <Hobbsee> heretician: actually, i think if you apt-get build-dep openoffice.org on your machine, you get pretty close :P
[08:56] <heretician> Time to learn Packaging :)
[08:57] <Hobbsee> heretician: sounds good.
[09:08] <Kamping_Kaiser> hm. did someone here do the last amap upl9oad?
[09:08] <Kamping_Kaiser> its kinda broken :|
[09:14] <Hobbsee> Kamping_Kaiser: define broken, and are you meaning for edgy?
[09:15] <Kamping_Kaiser> Hobbsee, yes, edgy. broken meaning 'cant install because its looking for  website for updated fingerprints and cant find it'
[09:15] <Hobbsee> Kamping_Kaiser: ah.  fix it?
[09:16] <Kamping_Kaiser> Hobbsee, no, htats your job :P
[09:16] <Hobbsee> Kamping_Kaiser: hah.  i've been fighting with pbuilder on a remote machine.  that's my job :)
[09:16] <heretician> "Then proceed to look for the package using apt-cache tool." -- Any chance theres a guide on using the apt-cache tool, or is it really easy and that's why I got no explanation in this guide?
[09:16] <Kamping_Kaiser> yay :)
[09:16] <Hobbsee> s/pbuilder/multiple pbuilders
[09:16] <Hobbsee> heretician: man apt-cache?  or apt-cache -h
[09:17] <Hobbsee> heretician: options i use most are apt-cache search foo or apt-cache show foo
[09:17] <heretician> Just says apt-cache :P
[09:17] <heretician> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompilingSoftware
[09:17] <Hobbsee> heretician: apt-cache has many things it can do - so if it says apt-cache, see all of it
[09:18] <heretician> I guess it's talking about apt-cache search
[09:19] <Hobbsee> i'd say so
[09:20] <heretician> sudo apt-get build-dep <package> - will that also show the location of the dependencies installed on your system? Like if ya need to add those dependencies to the package.
[09:21] <Hobbsee> heretician: er, it'll show you the ones that arent installed, and give you teh otpion to install them
[09:21] <heretician> Even better :)
[09:22] <Hobbsee> heretician: you'd have to look at debian/control in the source, or apt-cache show foo, to get all the dependancies it wants to build
[09:22] <StevenK> apt-cache showsrc foo to get the Build-Depends
[09:23] <Kamping_Kaiser> bug 53041 fwiw
[09:23] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 53041 in amap "fails install trying to connect to unknown host" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/53041
[09:25] <Hobbsee> StevenK: ah, is that it.  i'll have to remember htat
[09:26] <heretician> Yall wouldnt mind if I keep my packaging-related questions directed to this channel instead of #ubuntu would you? Ubuntu seems to be already too filled up with.. everything else.
[09:27] <Hobbsee> heretician: yeah, that's what this is here for.  mostly.
[09:28] <Hobbsee> well, it's more repo packaging than general packaging, but it's otherwise quiet
[09:28] <heretician> After I learn general packaging, i'll be moving on to repo packaging ;)
[09:28] <Hobbsee> hehe
[09:33] <heretician> "Another technique to determine which package to use is using the auto-apt tool or the apt-file tool (auto-apt might be faster)."
[09:34] <heretician> By any chance could that be translated into more.. plain english
[09:34] <heretician> it just jumped from needing build-dependencies installed in the package, to needing packages installed in the package
[09:42] <phanatic> morning
[09:42] <Hobbsee> hi phanatic
[09:43] <phanatic> hey Hobbsee
[09:43] <Hobbsee> heretician: auto-apt can get things wrong.
[09:45] <heretician> er
[09:45] <heretician> I'll delete it then :P
[09:55] <heretician> What about checkinstall?
[09:55] <Hobbsee> heretician: checkinstall is Very Evil (tm)
[09:55] <heretician> :(
[09:55] <heretician> It looked helpful too
[09:55] <heretician> dernit
[09:55] <Hobbsee> it's not.
[09:56] <Hobbsee> well, itis, partially.
[09:56] <Hobbsee> it's still evil.
[09:56] <heretician> ha
[09:56] <heretician> point made then
[09:56] <Hobbsee> mainly because of the wya it's used.
[09:56] <Arbiter> ooowww don't talk about checkinstall or alien
[09:56] <heretician> instead of sodu make you will be using sudo checkinstall, the package can be easily removed now with sudo dpkg -r packagename or by synaptic
[09:57] <Arbiter> let's see if the REVU keyring was refreshed
[09:57] <Arbiter> ;)
[09:57] <Hobbsee> heretician: yeah, it is good for that - for your own system.  but most people try to distribute them, and then they become Highly Evil (tm), and Ought To Be Shot (tm)
[09:58] <Hobbsee> Arbiter: did you add yourself to the group in the topic?
[09:58] <Arbiter> yeah
[09:58] <Hobbsee> nixternal: you probably want to get yourself added to that keyring for revu, btw
[09:58] <Hobbsee> Arbiter: cool :)
[09:58] <nixternal> teach me ol' wise one ;)
[09:58] <Arbiter> Lorenzo Villani is a member of:
[09:58] <Arbiter>     * Contributors of packages for ubuntu universe (Approved)
[09:58] <Arbiter> ;)
[09:58] <heretician> Well, i'm doing this while having the ubuntu community in mind, not my own system
[09:58] <heretician> baleted
[09:59] <Hobbsee> heretician: hehe
[09:59] <Hobbsee> Arbiter: nice :)
[09:59] <Hobbsee> nixternal: check out w.u.c/REVU
[09:59] <nixternal> ty
[10:01] <heretician> uh oh
[10:01] <heretician> synaptic cant find checkinstall
[10:01] <Hobbsee> heretician: did you comment out all of your sources list, by any chance?
[10:01] <Hobbsee> !info checkinstall
[10:02] <ubotu> checkinstall: installation tracker. In repository universe, is optional. Version 1.5.3-3ubuntu2 (dapper), package size 34 kB, installed size 132 kB
[10:02] <Hobbsee> or not have universe added?
[10:02] <heretician> er
[10:02] <heretician> dont know what you mean hehe..
[10:02] <heretician> but, i have it checked to read ALL repositories
[10:02] <heretician> universe is added
[10:02] <Arbiter> cool feature ubotu
[10:02] <Arbiter> !info smartpm
[10:02] <ubotu> smartpm: An alternative package manager that works with dpkg/rpm. In repository universe, is optional. Version 0.41-0ubuntu3 (dapper), package size 397 kB, installed size 2148 kB
[10:03] <Arbiter> ha! cool :D
[10:03] <heretician> smartpm.. sounds crappy
[10:03] <heretician> and dumb, but i just gathered that one from the name
[10:04] <heretician> write = right
[10:04] <Arbiter> heretician, i'm a smartpm tester :D
[10:04] <Hobbsee> Arbiter: nice :)
[10:04] <Hobbsee> ah, i know what i should do, i should fix my wiki page up
[10:04] <Arbiter> i also made a splitted package (smartpm, smartpm-gtk)
[10:04] <heretician> Oh... I was thinking more of smartpm developer-- my luck :P
[10:05] <Hobbsee> hehe
[10:05] <heretician> apt-cache definitely cant be used to remove packages.
[10:05] <heretician> Which apt is?
[10:06] <Gloubiboulga> apt-get remove <package>
[10:06] <Arbiter> better with --purge :P
[10:06] <heretician> and with sudo
[10:06] <heretician> :/
[10:06] <heretician> Guess i should get used to using sudo behind everything though
[10:06] <Hobbsee> heretician: well, behind the stuff that needs it
[10:07] <Hobbsee> heretician: for stuff that you're using a lot of sudo for, you can use sudo -s or sudo -i
[10:07] <heretician> Its morseso having to type in my password that is annoying me. I dont use numkeys(habit) and my password for Ubuntu is all numbers ;(
[10:08] <heretician> And I make a quick mental note of wether i typed it in correctly by looking at how many asterisks are there
[10:08] <Hobbsee> heretician: heh, true
[10:08] <heretician> or.. big black blobs
[10:08] <Hobbsee> hehe
[10:10] <heretician> would "sudo apt-file install autoconf" be a working command?
[10:10] <Hobbsee> heretician: ah, try it?
[10:10] <heretician> Guide says its identical to apt-auto
[10:11] <Hobbsee> hmmm okay
[10:11] <Arbiter> ha! the keyring was refreshed!
[10:11] <heretician> ...
[10:11] <heretician> What are you using Hobbsee?
[10:11] <heretician> And are you a member of MOTU?
[10:12] <Hobbsee> heretician: i'm going for motu on wednesday, i do a fair bit of kubuntu packaging
[10:12] <heretician> kubuntu has something different than apt-file i guess?
[10:12] <heretician> and good luck :)
[10:12] <Hobbsee> well, i use a pbuilder, so it automatically finds if i dont have the build-deps, and if they're listed in debian/control they're automatically installed
[10:13] <Hobbsee> thanks.
[10:13] <Hobbsee> no, apt-file will run on any *ubuntu system, or debian
[10:13] <heretician> Should I use it aswell.. I'm going to be packaging alot, after I learn how completely?
[10:13] <Arbiter> Hobbsee, dont forget about RPM-based system with apt4rpm :P
[10:13] <Hobbsee> Arbiter: i've never used that.
[10:13] <Hobbsee> i never want to.
[10:14] <Arbiter> hehehe
[10:14] <Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, the TB is not on tuesday?
[10:14] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: your tuesday.
[10:14] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: my 6am wednesday.
[10:14] <Gloubiboulga> ah ok :)
[10:14] <heretician> i read a guide a few days about and it was for "Those so new to Ubuntu they don't know the difference between apt and rpm" -- i still dont :?
[10:14] <Gloubiboulga> ouch, it's at 8pm for me
[10:16] <Hobbsee> !pbuilder > heretician
[10:16] <Arbiter> :>
[10:16] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: yeah, ouch.  i'm *not* a morning person
[10:16] <heretician> seems
[10:16] <heretician> complex
[10:16] <heretician> every guide i read seems to make me have to read another guide
[10:17] <heretician> Time to find out how to use the chroot image, for pbuilder...
[10:17] <Toadstool> hi Gloubiboulga :)
[10:17] <Gloubiboulga> hello Toadstool :)
[10:17] <Hobbsee> heretician: haha.  check out debian maintainers guide if you get bored one day.  but guides are great - they beat no guides at all.
[10:17] <heretician> pbuilder seems to be something that a packager couldnt live without so far hehe
[10:18] <heretician> debian maintainers guide .... i think i have that on my todo list
[10:18] <heretician> im just reading guides given to me to read by LaserJock hehe
[10:18] <Hobbsee> heretician: some weird people like using chroots, but after you install deps in the chroot, it's not clean anymore, so how do you know if you need to add more packages to the next package you do?
[10:18] <Hobbsee> hehe, sounds good to me
[10:18] <heretician> er
[10:19] <heretician> i figured chroot was always-clean
[10:19] <heretician> or atleast you could reclean it
[10:19] <Hobbsee> heretician: that's pbuilder, being always clean.
[10:19] <Hobbsee> bleh.  can be recleaned, but very painful
[10:19] <heretician> okies
[10:19] <heretician> pbuilder has became 50% less useful then
[10:20] <Hobbsee> haha
[10:20] <Toadstool> Gloubiboulga: TB at 8pm? according to the schedule on #u-meeting it's at 10pm...
[10:20] <Hobbsee> Toadstool: dont joke with me like that
[10:20] <heretician>  pbuilder create  will create a base chroot image. The distribution code-name needs to be specified with the --distribution  command-line option. Usually, "sid" is used, and the default is now sid.  - couldnt this be used over and over again?
[10:21] <Hobbsee> Toadstool: 2200 is 10pm, 2000 is 8pm.
[10:21] <Arbiter> lol
[10:21] <Arbiter> why the hell Xgl doesn't work? i want the cube effect XD
[10:21] <Gloubiboulga> Toadstool, ah yes, 20UTC...
[10:21] <Toadstool> Hobbsee: UTC yeah, Paris -> UTC+2
[10:22] <Hobbsee> Toadstool: true, thought you were referring to UTC time
[10:22] <Toadstool> no :)
[10:27] <NthDegree> what's edgy like right now?
[10:27] <Hobbsee> NthDegree: broken.
[10:27] <NthDegree> still broken :|
[10:27] <Gloubiboulga> but usable
[10:27] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: shhh :P
[10:27] <Gloubiboulga> with Xfce, I don't know about gnome/kde
[10:27] <Hobbsee> kde some stuff's broken, iirc
[10:27] <Hobbsee> they might have fixed gnome
[10:28] <Gloubiboulga> but you're used to a broken kde, aren't you ? :p
[10:28] <Toadstool> oops... my finger slipped on the ubuntu-dev "join the team" link... :P
[10:28] <Gloubiboulga> yeah \o/
[10:28] <Toadstool> :)
[10:32] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: hah.
[10:32] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: not that broken.
[10:32] <Gloubiboulga> :)
[10:32] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: for that, you can ack a sync for me, thanks :P
[10:32] <Toadstool> heh
[10:32] <Hobbsee> i'd just better check that it will actually sync first :P
[10:32] <Gloubiboulga> if its name doesn't start with k that's ok
[10:33] <Gloubiboulga> ;)
[10:33] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: haha, actually it doesnt
[10:33] <Hobbsee> it starts with an f
[10:33] <Gloubiboulga> ok, I'll do it then
[10:34] <Hobbsee> hehe
[10:34] <heretician> Lets say someone does not have a ./configure installed in their package, and nothing about it in their README.. sudo apt-get install autoconf would definitely not work alone, so do i need to add the package name at the end?
[10:34] <heretician> Or something else?
[10:35] <Gloubiboulga> heretician, I think I don't clearly understand what you want to do
[10:36] <heretician> create a configure file
[10:36] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: add autoconf to build-deps, i think.  please explain it, as i'm stuck with that atm too
[10:36] <Toadstool> grah, python-gnome2-extras still not installable... I can't test gnome-sudoku
[10:37] <Gloubiboulga> heretician, you want to create the configure file for a package or for a software of yours?
[10:37] <Hobbsee> Toadstool: maybe install ksudoku instead?
[10:38] <heretician> For a package
[10:38] <Toadstool> Hobbsee: tss :)
[10:38] <Hobbsee> Toadstool: what's the extended form of that?
[10:39] <Gloubiboulga> heretician, if it uses the autotools but the configure is not generated yet, you'll have to generate it in debian/rules
[10:40] <Gloubiboulga> and as Hobbsee said, you'll need to build-depend on autoconf & co to make this work
[10:40] <heretician> Says I have to look for config.ac
[10:40] <heretician> er configure.gc
[10:40] <heretician> ac
[10:40] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: hwo do you generate it in debian/rules?
[10:40] <Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, by calling ./autogen.sh ? :)
[10:40] <heretician> autoconf?
[10:41] <heretician> well
[10:41] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: ahhhh...right.
[10:41] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: what's the syntax for that?  feel free to point me to documentation
[10:42] <Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, hm, google? I don't know where you can find documentation
[10:42] <heretician> basically what i was trying to avoid asking is something that is really making me misunderstand this entire guide-- some places it adds in the <package name> detail at the end of a command, and sometimes it doesnt. Im not sure if I should use those commands that it does not add <package name> at the end WITH or WITHOUT the package name at the end
[10:42] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: a package with a similar situation, where i could grab the source would do :P
[10:42] <heretician> like ./configure for example
[10:42] <heretician> is it ./configure <variable> <package name> or just ./configure <variable>?
[10:43] <Gloubiboulga> ah!
[10:43] <Gloubiboulga> no need to add the <package name>
[10:43] <Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, usually you don't find such packages
[10:43] <heretician> what about for autoconf?
[10:43] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: ah right
[10:43] <Gloubiboulga> heretician, the same I guess
[10:43] <heretician> Alrighty
[10:44] <Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, except for svn/cvs snapshot, but in this case you generate yourself a nice tarball with a nice configure file
[10:44] <Toadstool> Hobbsee: that was just an attempt to write some kind of "i-hate-kde" noise :P
[10:44] <Hobbsee> Toadstool: ahh :P
[10:44] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: right, okay
[10:45] <Gloubiboulga> which one?
[10:46] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: kdocker or something - it's new
[10:47] <Arbiter> i love making debian packages
[10:47] <Arbiter> :>
[10:48] <heretician> whats the command to list all build-depends needed for a certain package?
[10:50] <Gloubiboulga> heretician, apt-cache can do that :)
[10:50] <heretician> er, whats the full command for it?
[10:51] <heretician> im creating a packaging tips rtf for myself hehe
[10:51] <Toadstool> apt-cache showsrc package-name
[10:51] <Toadstool> and look at the Build-Depends field
[10:51] <Hobbsee> yay!  a sync1
[10:52] <ogra> sync1 ?
[10:52] <Hobbsee> s/1/!
[10:52] <Toadstool> hi ogra
[10:53] <Hobbsee> hehe
[10:54] <ogra> i always wondered where the stuff in /dev/null ends up finally :) ...
[10:55] <Gloubiboulga> 'lost in /dev/null', directed by Sarah Hobb
[10:55] <Gloubiboulga> s
[10:55] <Gloubiboulga> it could be a cool geek movie
[10:56] <heretician> lol
[10:56] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/fityk/+bug/53044 please
[10:56] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: hehe!
[10:56] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 53044 in fityk "[Edgy MoM]  Please sync fityk 0.7.4-1 from Debian Sid" [Untriaged,Confirmed] 
[10:57] <pygi> Hobbsee, you can't put just anything in /dev/null...even it has its limits
[10:57] <Hobbsee> pygi: :(
[10:57] <ogra> pygi, really ? did you ever see it overflow ?
[10:58] <Hobbsee> NthDegree: heh.  yeah.  i always was :P
[10:58] <pygi> ogra, not really, but oh well :)
[10:58] <NthDegree> i think i'll take a 3 second sneak peek in #ubuntu-women when i'm unsure :p
[10:58] <ogra> :)
[10:58] <Hobbsee> NthDegree: heh, i'm not in there
[10:59] <NthDegree> why not?
[10:59] <ogra> Hobbsee, ouch, that was my head ....
[10:59] <pygi> ogra, !!!
[10:59] <Hobbsee> ogra: hehe.  you were supposed to throw him off you.
[10:59] <pygi> Hobbsee, !!!
[10:59] <Hobbsee> NthDegree: mainly cos it's full of men, and very quiet.
[10:59] <Hobbsee> pygi: what?
[10:59] <pygi> you trying to kill me or what??
[10:59] <ogra> Hobbsee, like /dev/null ?
[10:59] <NthDegree> you are kidding right lmao
[10:59] <Hobbsee> pygi: i refrain to answer that question on the basis that it may incriminate me
[11:00] <Hobbsee> NthDegree: no
[11:00] <Hobbsee> ogra: of course.  actually, i more just like throwing people into it :P
[11:00] <pygi> Hobbsee, !!!!
[11:00] <ogra> haha
[11:00] <pygi> I am afraid now :-/
[11:01] <Hobbsee> ogra: want to update my wiki page for me?
[11:01] <heretician> So.. can the Ubuntu OS be generally left on longer than it would be safe to leave a windows OS'd box on?
[11:02] <Hobbsee> heretician: yeah, hopefully
[11:02] <heretician> Ill leave it on for about a week or two and see if it shows any similar results as to leaving my pc on when i had windows on it :p
[11:03] <ogra> Hobbsee, where do you want to have "throwing men into /dev/null" ? under contributions or future palns ?
[11:03] <Hobbsee> ogra: hehe!
[11:03] <ogra> :)
[11:03] <Hobbsee> ogra: the ones i really dont like get the death look
[11:03] <ogra> whee
[11:03] <Hobbsee> ogra: but i hope you'll never do anything to deserve that
[11:04] <Hobbsee> ogra: whatever for?
[11:04] <Hobbsee> haha
[11:05] <ogra> but honestly, what do you want to update it for ? -changes is talking for itself :)
[11:05] <Hobbsee> ogra: dont i have to, to go for MOTU?
[11:06] <Hobbsee> hehe that is true.  i think i'll link to there, hobbsee/+packages, a list of written bugs (ie, sync requests), and then turn up mostly asleep.
[11:06] <ogra> well, when i led the motu we liked if people added their packages there, but still, during the meeting we counted uploads on -changes :)
[11:06] <Hobbsee> ogra: hehe, true.
[11:06] <ogra> so thats the real ressource ...
[11:07] <Hobbsee> ogra: you could just get them to ack me now, and save me from a highly evil meeting time.
[11:07] <ogra> your wikipage shows your documentary skills, not your packaing knowledge :)
[11:07] <Hobbsee> which would let me do more uploads soon...
[11:07] <Hobbsee> ogra: that's also true.  actually, all it shows is how good you are at wiki code too, which isnt standard html
[11:07] <ogra> i'm sure you'll get approved right away if you apply :)
[11:07] <Hobbsee> ogra: i did.
[11:07] <Hobbsee> ogra: it's just the meeting at 6am that'll be the fun part.
[11:08] <ogra> heh
[11:08] <ogra> we'll send you StevenK :)
[11:08] <Hobbsee> ogra: heh, he knows where i live anyway
[11:08] <Hobbsee> ogra: feel like approving a sync, as Gloubiboulga hasnt seemed to do it yet?
[11:09] <Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, building the package
[11:09] <ogra> i have no revu account ...
[11:09] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: ah...right.
[11:09] <Gloubiboulga> I'm sure you did, but...
[11:09] <ogra> (i might have one, but if i have one i dont have the data)
[11:09] <Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: yeah, of course :P
[11:10] <Hobbsee> i think
[11:10] <ogra> i have shell access ... but even that data is somewhere hidden in one of my broken laptops ...
[11:10] <Hobbsee> heh
[11:11] <heretician> does just "make foo" work or will it need "./configure make foo" ?
[11:11] <Hobbsee> ogra: https://launchpad.net/people/?name=ogra&searchfor=all <-- looks like you have many
[11:11] <Hobbsee> ogra: https://launchpad.net/people/ogra looks to be you
[11:12] <ogra> yeah ...
[11:12] <ogra> i dont have accounts with 0 karma :)
[11:12] <Hobbsee> ogra: they dont have a "recover p/w" function on it?
[11:12] <Hobbsee> haha
[11:12] <Hobbsee> me neither :P
[11:12] <heretician> I do ;/
[11:12] <Hobbsee> only 6098 karma.  shame.
[11:12] <heretician> My only account infact.. Is there a reason for having multiple accounts?
[11:12] <heretician> That i missed..
[11:13] <pygi> heretician, nop ^_^
[11:13] <ogra> you could take over kscreensaver ... that would give you 1000 extra karma points for crazyness :)
[11:13] <pygi> !!!
[11:13] <ubotu> I know nothing about !! - try searching http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi?db=ubuntu
[11:13] <heretician> Are karma points automatically given?
[11:14] <ogra> yes, based on your actions
[11:14] <heretician> i mean like
[11:14] <Hobbsee> ogra: heh.  actually, i met the maintainer of that one night, but i was really really sick, and his bank account had had something strange done to it, and i never saw it again
[11:14] <heretician> automatically rewarded
[11:14] <heretician> not by somebody, but by a script
[11:15] <ogra> heretician, https://launchpad.net/people/ogra/+karma
[11:15] <heretician> Ahh, cool
[11:16] <heretician> does just "make foo" work or will it need "./configure make foo" ?
[11:38] <Hobbsee> and then it went quiet.
[11:38] <Gloubiboulga> yes, time to leave for me
[11:38] <Gloubiboulga> cu
[02:00] <Arbiter> re
[02:04] <Arbiter> "Launchpad will be going offline for maintenance in 14 minutes." oh noooo :P
[02:06] <heretician> You got on just for that didn't you? :P
[02:07] <Hobbsee> Arbiter: where'd you see that?  LP itself?
[02:08] <Hobbsee> hi phanatic
[02:08] <phanatic> hey Hobbsee
[02:08] <Hobbsee> oh yeah, i see...
[02:08] <Arbiter> Hobbsee, yeah
[02:09] <Arbiter> Hobbsee, are you a MOTU?
[02:09] <Hobbsee> Arbiter: i didnt see anyone come and annouce it in -devel, which is where we usually see it first
[02:09] <Hobbsee> Arbiter: i will be after wednesday.
[02:09] <Arbiter> cool :D
[02:09] <Hobbsee> :)
[02:09] <Arbiter> <-- lunch
[02:09] <Arbiter> l8r
[02:09] <Hobbsee> cya!
[02:09] <phanatic> Hobbsee: you're going for -dev? nice to hear :)
[02:10] <Hobbsee> phanatic: not core.  just MOTU (for the moment, at least)
[02:10] <StevenK> Which is -dev, yes.
[02:10] <phanatic> indeed :)
[02:10] <StevenK> -core-dev is the inner sanctum as it were.
[02:10] <Hobbsee> yeah, true
[02:10] <Hobbsee> heh
[02:11] <Hobbsee> phanatic: figured i was bugging other people too much and stopping them from doing their dev stuff, cos they were having to do a lot of uploads for me.
[02:12] <phanatic> Hobbsee: :) you deserve a place in the -dev team, that's sure...
[02:13] <Hobbsee> phanatic: thanks :)
[02:13] <Hobbsee> for the vote of confidence
[02:13] <Hobbsee> phanatic: you think i'll get eaten at the meeting?
[02:13] <phanatic> Hobbsee: seeing the work you've done, i doubt it :)
[02:13] <Hobbsee> hehe
[02:14] <Hobbsee> phanatic: i finally dont have to build on my laptop anymore - i have ssh access to a better machine now :)
[02:15] <phanatic> Hobbsee: that's great :) oh, i still use my lappy, but i only build my packages + revu ones for reviewing :)
[02:15] <Hobbsee> hehe
[02:15] <Hobbsee> true
[02:16] <StevenK> You don't stop from doing my own -dev work.
[02:16] <StevenK> Er, add a Hobbsee: at the front
[02:17] <Hobbsee> StevenK: it feels like it though
[02:17] <phanatic> :)
[02:17] <StevenK> Which front?
[02:18] <Hobbsee> StevenK: any of them?  i was meaning the adding hobbsee at the front
[02:19] <StevenK> Heh
[02:33] <Arbiter> re
[05:13] <Sp4rKy> hi
[05:15] <Sp4rKy> is there anyone here which have the mail adress daemon @ poleboy.de please ?
[05:19] <Sp4rKy> because he doesn't advocated my package "planfacile"
[05:20] <Sp4rKy> he said some file always exists but they doesn't seems to exist
[05:25] <ogra> Sp4rKy, thats sistpoty
[05:25] <Sp4rKy> thx
[05:25] <Sp4rKy> but he isn't here
[06:01] <nixternal> hrmm..i uploaded 'kflickr-0.6' about 7 hours ago and i don't see it on REVU
[07:24] <Laser_away> sweet, numpy is in
[07:53] <Laser_away> great! I just found that the upstreams of both packages I maintain in Debian put out new releases without telling me :/
[07:54] <Laser_away> I guess it's time for watch files :-)
[08:02] <nixternal> lol
[08:03] <ogra> subscribing to their mailing list doesnt help ?
[08:03] <ogra> ;)
[08:03] <_ion> laser: See uscan(1), uupdate(1)
[08:04] <_ion> Whoops, i misread your second line.
[08:10] <Laser_away> ogra: mailing lists? what mailing lists?
[08:11] <ogra> they dont haven one ?
[08:11] <ogra> wow ... that must be a tiny project :)
[08:11] <Laser_away> 2 of them
[08:12] <Laser_away> us scientists don't need fancy development tools like mailing lists, or CVS for that matter
[08:13] <Laser_away> but I was in fairly good communication with the authors
[08:13] <_ion> "fancy" and "CVS" in the same sentence?
[08:13] <Laser_away> but since nothing happened for a while I guess they forgot about me
[08:13] <Laser_away> yep
[08:14] <Laser_away> my boss always thought RCS in emacs was fine
[08:15] <Laser_away> but I won't get into the "Why scientists shouldn't be allowed to develop software" discussion ;-)
[08:15] <mukund> computation is a necessary portion of almost every scientific field now
[08:15] <Laser_away> so true
[08:17] <Laser_away> in my department however, with the exception of a few "weirdos" like myself, everyone tries to avoid computers as much as possible
[08:19] <Laser_away> anyway, /me goes away again
[08:30] <FunnyLookinHat> oh man busy day in #ubuntu for support  : )
[08:30] <FunnyLookinHat> i'm never gonna learn to create packages, lol
[08:33] <ogra> learn the basics and start supporting beginners in #ubuntu-motu ;)
[08:36] <FunnyLookinHat> oh i'm trying, believe me   : )
[08:37] <Arbiter> debian packaging is a pleasant experience :D
[08:37] <FunnyLookinHat> holy crap it sucks!
[08:38] <FunnyLookinHat> I built my pbuilder env and all that jazz, then I got lost when it started referencing .dsc files, because none exists even after compiling something from source
[08:39] <tseng> a dsc file has nothing to do with "compiling from source"
[08:39] <FunnyLookinHat> thus my confusion began  : )
[08:40] <FunnyLookinHat> I'll have to work through the tutorial again a little later today, I have to rebuild my file server right now   >_<
[08:53] <cypher1> FunnyLookinHat, i am also in a learning curve..but i think dh_make and debuild should help you
[08:53] <FunnyLookinHat> cypher1, i'll make a note of those two tools, thanks  : )
[08:53] <cypher1> FunnyLookinHat, See 3.2 in Packaging Guide
[08:54] <FunnyLookinHat> rgr  : )
[08:55] <cypher1> is there anything special i have to do for packaging X applications using pbuilder ?
[09:22] <cypher1> FunnyLookinHat, what are you building ?
[09:23] <nixternal> E: lyx_1.4.2-0ubuntu1_source.changes: bad-distribution-in-chages-file edgy
[09:23] <nixternal> ^^ ignorable or no?
[09:23] <FunnyLookinHat> cypher1, MythTV .19  : )
[09:23] <cypher1> FunnyLookinHat, X based ?
[09:26] <FunnyLookinHat> cypher1, um...  maybe?  I don't know, it has a lot of GUI so it probably is
[09:27] <FunnyLookinHat> Should i be afriad?
[09:28] <cypher1> FunnyLookinHat, no i just asked
[09:37] <theturtlemoves> hey, i was thinking of getting involved - is this the best place?
[09:37] <crimsun> nixternal: yes, it's ignorable.
[09:38] <nixternal> ty sir 
[09:38] <theturtlemoves> i've got very limited programming experience, but i'm reasonably good at generally tinkering around, and i learn quickly
[09:38] <nixternal> crimsun: is it possible for you to look over my lyx packaging i did, and provide some constructive criticism?
[09:38] <crimsun> theturtlemoves: sure, this is a good place. Also see #ubuntu-bugs.
[09:39] <theturtlemoves> crimsun: so what sort of involvement would you suggest?
[09:39] <crimsun> theturtlemoves: there's also #ubuntu-doc if you'd like to get into describing things better.
[09:40] <crimsun> theturtlemoves: depends on your interests, really. Do you like writing? -> #ubuntu-doc. Do you like packaging new software or maintaining currently packaged software? See wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU . Do you like fixing bugs? -> #ubuntu-bugs.
[09:41] <nixternal> #ubuntu-nun if you are interested in mentoring 
[09:41] <crimsun> nixternal: ~10 mins, need to dig into e-mail backlog
[09:41] <nixternal> no problem crimsun
[09:41] <nixternal> http://www.buntudot.org/people/~nixternal/packages/lyx-1.4.2/
[09:41] <nixternal> there is a link..take your time
[09:41] <nixternal> im here all day 
[09:44] <theturtlemoves> crimsun: thanks - i guess i'd better figure out where i'd be most productive
[09:57] <crimsun> theturtlemoves: dig into them all
[09:57] <crimsun> theturtlemoves: there are so many ways to contribute that you're bound to find a niche or three
[10:00] <nixternal> source-contains-cvs-conflict-copy admin/.#acinclude.m4.in.2.483    484    and    485
[10:01] <cypher1> how do i install X includes in pbuilder environment ??
[10:01] <crimsun> cypher1: they should be in debian/control:Build-Depends
[10:01] <crimsun> cypher1: or did you login?
[10:01] <cypher1> crimsun, i tried login
[10:02] <crimsun> cypher1: apt-get install libx11-dev [..]    then
[10:02] <crimsun> note that's only sufficient in some cases
[10:02] <cypher1> crimsun, should i do apt-get inside the pbuilder login ?
[10:02] <crimsun> yes
[10:04] <cypher1> so base.tgz will be updated with that ?
[10:04] <crimsun> no.
[10:05] <crimsun> well, did it already have the deb cached?
[10:05] <crimsun> (pretty easy to tell. If it did, then you won't download anyting, and it'll just install)
[10:13] <cypher1> did apt-get
[10:13] <cypher1> so i have to come out of the login and try pbuilder again ?
[10:14] <crimsun> cypher1: I'm confused why you chose to pbuilder login then apt-get from within it.
[10:15] <cypher1> sorry i thought thats what you had mentioned
[10:22] <cypher1> arghhh lot of problems with pbuilder
[10:22] <cypher1> will try tomorow
[10:22] <cypher1> gtg sleep
[10:22] <cypher1> bye all
[10:22] <crimsun> 'bye
[10:22] <cypher1> crimsun, thanks for the help
[10:22] <cypher1> bey
[10:55] <LaserJock> hi raphink
[10:55] <raphink> hi LaserJock :)
[11:03] <LaserJock> hi Kyral
[11:03] <Kyral> hello
[11:03] <Kyral> Damn its hot in here
[11:03] <LaserJock> how bad? it's 85 F inside here
[11:03] <crimsun> it's 65F here :-)
[11:03] <Kyral> Current weather for Massena, Massena International-Richards Field : Retrieving weather data..., Temperature: , Pressure: , Wind:
[11:03] <Kyral> Current weather for Fort Drum / Wheeler-Sack U. S. Army Airfield : The network is currently offline..., Few clouds at 3500 feet, Temperature: 73.4F, Pressure: 29.87" Hg, Wind: 4 MPH
[11:03] <ogra> its night and oly 25C
[11:04] <Kyral> Okay
[11:04] <ogra> *only
[11:04] <Kyral> it FEELS hot :P
[11:04] <LaserJock> hmm, it's 100 F outside here
[11:04] <Kyral> Might be me though, I work up a sweat during good gaming periods
[11:04] <Kyral> Like today :D
[11:04] <LaserJock> hi danny
[11:05] <crimsun> (it's time for LaserJock to test his new backporting plans for the PG!)
[11:05] <danny> moin moin, i just searching for a backport of grsync
[11:05] <LaserJock> yes, I was just thinking that
[11:05] <ogra> heh
[11:06] <LaserJock> danny: so edgy has the version you want?
[11:07] <danny> ok... for slow people... this means I need to add edgy to my sources.list? doesn't sound like a good idea over all
[11:08] <LaserJock> no, don't do that
[11:08] <danny> good... but what then?
[11:08] <LaserJock> !info grsync edgy
[11:08] <ubotu> grsync: GTK+ frontend for rsync. In repository universe, is optional. Version 0.4.3-2 (edgy), package size 44 kB, installed size 244 kB
[11:09] <LaserJock> danny: basically, you want to take the source package from edgy and rebuild the .deb for you, on dapper
[11:09] <danny> is this a shell command? - !info grsync edgy
[11:09] <LaserJock> it's a bot we have in this channel
[11:09] <danny> yes this sounds like the thing to do
[11:10] <LaserJock> so first you need to grab the source package
[11:10] <danny> :-) where and how?
[11:10] <LaserJock> you could add edgy deb-src lines in sources.list but that is overkill for just one package
[11:10] <LaserJock> instead head over to Launchpad
[11:11] <danny> https://launchpad.net ?
[11:11] <LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/grsync
[11:11] <LaserJock> that is the LP page for the grsync package
[11:12] <LaserJock> click on the version you want ( 0.4.3-2 )
[11:12] <ogra> click on the version you want from the list :)
[11:12] <ogra> heh
[11:12] <danny> for beginners: LP page means what?
[11:12] <LaserJock> LP = launchpad
[11:12] <tseng> isnt there a doc for all this
[11:12] <danny> ok
[11:13] <LaserJock> tseng: probably, I think there is some backporting info on the wiki, but I want to make sure he's got it
[11:13] <LaserJock> tseng: and I need to document this in the Packaging Guide as well
[11:13] <tseng> LaserJock: yes.
[11:13] <ogra> tseng, wil make a good addition :)
[11:13] <ogra> *will
[11:13] <danny> there are three files... do I need the tar.gz?
[11:13] <LaserJock> danny: down towards the bottom you see Download, right?
[11:13] <LaserJock> you need all three
[11:14] <LaserJock> they make up the source package
[11:14] <danny> no
[11:14] <danny> ok all three
[11:15] <LaserJock> just grab all 3 files- .dsc (the description file) .orig.tar.gz (the original source code from the author) and the .diff.gz (holds the diff that contains Debian/Ubuntu packaging info)
[11:16] <LaserJock> put them in a directory, lets say ~/grsync
[11:16] <danny> done
[11:17] <LaserJock> danny: ok so go into ~/grsync and do dpkg-source -x *.dsc
[11:18] <LaserJock> that will unpack the source (.orig.tar.gz) and apply the diff (from .diff.gz)
[11:19] <LaserJock> danny: do you know anything about pbuilders or chroots?
[11:19] <danny> ok, that was easy
[11:21] <danny> have read the packing guide but dont understand all... chrooting into gentoo was cool.... thats anything I know about that... I'm very new to linux specific development processes....
[11:21] <LaserJock> ok, well we won't worry about that for now
[11:22] <LaserJock> normally it is cleaner (and better) to build the .debs in a chrooted environment
[11:22] <danny> hey, but I like to learn this stuff....
[11:22] <Heretician> I'm back to stage one with having problems with Ubuntu again.. Seems what I thought was a temporary problem during installation, turned out to be the backbone of my GUI ;/
[11:22] <LaserJock> danny: now what you need to do is get all the packages that grsync needs to build
[11:23] <LaserJock> danny: you can do that by sudo apt-get builddep grsync
[11:23] <LaserJock> opps, that should be build-dep
[11:24] <danny> seems everything was there
[11:24] <LaserJock> ok, now check and see if you have the devscripts package installed
[11:26] <danny> you can memorise the command ?
[11:26] <LaserJock> what command?
[11:27] <danny> ok just thought you know the apt command.... will check with synaptics... thats still faster than reading the manpage
[11:27] <LaserJock> danny: for devscripts?
[11:27] <LaserJock> just do sudo apt-get install devscripts
[11:28] <LaserJock> or dpkg -l | grep devscripts if you want
[11:28] <danny> is now installed
[11:28] <LaserJock> ok
[11:28] <LaserJock> so what directory are you in now?
[11:29] <danny> in any directory you want me to be :-) just kidding ~/grsync
[11:30] <LaserJock> ok so cd to grsync-0.4.3
[11:30] <danny> jepp
[11:30] <LaserJock> run debuild -us -uc
[11:31] <danny> what are the options for?
[11:31] <danny> finished
[11:31] <LaserJock> they make it so files aren't digitally signed
[11:32] <LaserJock> ok now go up cd ../
[11:32] <danny> right - that only needed if published in the internet?
[11:32] <LaserJock> right
[11:33] <danny> smile - now there is a deb file
[11:33] <LaserJock> yep
[11:33] <LaserJock> so you can install it with dpkg -i *.deb
[11:33] <ogra> or doubleclick it and let gdebi do the work ;)
[11:33] <danny> let me gess... this installs yust as any other deb file?
[11:33] <LaserJock> right
[11:34] <LaserJock> yeah gdebi is really nice because it will grab the dependencies if you need them
[11:34] <LaserJock> in this case you should be set though
[11:34] <danny> does this first remove the grsync 0.1.2 files?
[11:34] <LaserJock> yes
[11:34] <LaserJock> you have succesfully upgraded grsync to 0.4.3
[11:36] <danny> ok I try... nice gdebi reminds me on windows... do you want to do that? yes! really? yes....
[11:37] <danny> ok the programm works! thanks. learned a lot for this late hour
[11:38] <LaserJock> now, this worked really nicely because we didn't have to change anything to get it to work
[11:38] <LaserJock> we just had to recompile it on Dapper
[11:39] <LaserJock> programs like that are good backports candidates
[11:39] <danny> I know.... but the programm itself is simple.... maybe we should try let say Open Office by tomorrow?
[11:40] <LaserJock> haha, you're welcom to try that if you want
[11:40] <ogra> danny, its not everywhere such a late hour ;)
[11:40] <LaserJock> what time is it over there ogra?
[11:40] <ogra> even though i agree, its late in germany :)
[11:40] <ogra> 11:40pm
[11:40] <LaserJock> it's early afternoon here
[11:40] <ogra> heh
[11:41] <danny> not really... just like to fix some missing things (perhaps I learn enougth to do it myself) - and perhaps one of my projects will ever come to a state to release it to the public...
[11:43] <danny> well.... we in central europe have "real time" here :-) Its dark in Greenwich, so its night by definition, or?
[11:44] <danny> so where are you guys from?
[11:44] <LaserJock> I'm in the US
[11:44] <LaserJock> bah, how do I get dpkg --compare-versions to spit stuff out
[11:45] <danny> oh... please don't say you have voted for bush...
[11:46] <LaserJock> danny: we generally avoid politics in here. it makes for a better working environment :-)
[11:48] <danny> sorry... just still crying about the estimated 20.000.000 Euros we germans have to charge for the visit of this man....
[11:49] <danny> to orga: Also dann verstehst des?
[11:53] <danny> back to grsync... what must be done to the package, so the programm integrates into the gnome menue like the other programms when installing?
[11:54] <ogra> danny, sicher doch :)
[11:54] <ogra> danny, if the package ships a menu entry you can enable it in the menu editor
[11:54] <ogra> if not, you can create ne wiht it :)
[11:54] <danny> schee....back to English speaking mode?
[11:55] <ogra> ist n englischer channel :)
[11:55] <danny> i know
[11:55] <ogra> so if i tell you crap the others can correct me if they understand what i write :)
[11:56] <LaserJock> haha
[11:57] <LaserJock> danny: the program needs a .desktop files (usually found in /usr/share/applications/) to show up in the menu
[11:58] <danny> well its a bit more complex than english... but much saner than french!
[11:58] <ogra> ++
[11:58] <LaserJock> I like it from what little I've done so far
[12:00] <danny> yes, its allways fun to read books in their original language...
[12:02] <danny> no grsync.desktop file