/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/07/16/#ubuntu-motu.txt

fowlduck	i wanna make me a new version of ubuntu	12:08
danny	seems I missed something. there is a menue entry.... in the internet tools section...	12:09
danny	hmm, think I work a bit on my own code.... bye	12:11
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fowlduck	hey, how does someone go about starting a new version of ubuntu? I mean, someone had to put together edubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu, so there has to be a method to this madness.	12:21
LaserJock	more like lots of madness to the method ;-)	12:27
LaserJock	fowlduck: you want to like customize the .isos?	12:27
fowlduck	LaserJock, more than that, I want to customize what is installed during the install	12:28
LaserJock	there are some wiki pages, but I don't know how far they go	12:30
fowlduck	not far at all	12:31
fowlduck	and they're for breezy	12:31
fowlduck	how did the other people go about it? there is such a barrier	12:31
LaserJock	what do you mean by other people?	12:34
sladen	fowlduck: define a meta-package that Depends on a bunch of stuff	12:34
fowlduck	LaserJock, as in those that started Xubuntu, Edubuntu, Kubuntu	12:35
sladen	fowlduck: they installed a bunch of packages and defined a meta-package that depended on them	12:35
LaserJock	fowlduck: those projects use the Ubuntu infrastructure	12:35
fowlduck	LaserJock, ok, so how would I go about getting access to this? Or becoming an official project?	12:36
fowlduck	sladen, but the installer	12:36
sladen	fowlduck: start by defining a meta-package, get it sponsored into universe	12:36
LaserJock	fowlduck: not sure, get the Technica Board or Mark to ok it perhaps	12:36
sladen	fowlduck: the core-infrastructure is all the same	12:36
fowlduck	sladen, hmmm, i'll have to get some more packages put into it	12:36
sladen	fowlduck: what packages?	12:37
LaserJock	meta-packages are by far easier to do	12:37
fowlduck	like pyflag	12:37
fowlduck	foremost	12:37
fowlduck	scalpel	12:37
fowlduck	mac-robber	12:37
sladen	are those in Debian?	12:37
fowlduck	nope	12:37
sladen	ideally, the first step is to get them into Debian	12:37
LaserJock	fowlduck: what kind of project are you trying to make?	12:37
fowlduck	i had to package them myself for a program I wrote to customize ubuntu for computer forensics	12:37
sladen	okay, so they're already packaged?	12:37
fowlduck	LaserJock, computer forensics ubuntu	12:37
LaserJock	oh yeah, I thought I'd heard of pyflag	12:37
fowlduck	sladen, yes, I packaged them	12:38
sladen	in that case, look at getting them uploaded to revu	12:38
LaserJock	I thought there was already a derivative thing for that	12:38
fowlduck	LaserJock, I was the guy bothering you about packaging it this past spring break	12:38
LaserJock	oh, ok	12:38
LaserJock	now I get it	12:38
LaserJock	:-)	12:38
sladen	and then getting them sponsored by one of the MOTU into universe	12:38
fowlduck	still the same guy :)	12:38
fowlduck	I need to repackage them with a GPG key that I stick with	12:38
sladen	and apply for MOTU at the same time so that you get upload priviligies	12:38
sladen	fowlduck: grin, so you did manage to get them packaged! :)	12:39
sladen	LaserJock: rock! See, it's worth helping people, they might come back a few months later with nicely packaged stuff :)	12:39
LaserJock	yep	12:40
LaserJock	fowlduck: the "offical" derivatives have to have their packages in Main	12:40
LaserJock	your best bet is to get your packages in Universe and make a meta-package	12:41
fowlduck	LaserJock, how do you mean? I'mnot new to packaging but I am to REVU	12:41
fowlduck	oh, ok	12:41
fowlduck	but there is an issue	12:41
fowlduck	see, to be forensically sound, automounting has to be turned off, all forms of it	12:42
fowlduck	and that interferes with the settings of others	12:42
LaserJock	once they are in the repos then it's possible to make a LiveCD with your tailored packages	12:42
LaserJock	yep	12:42
LaserJock	I'm not exactly sure the best way to get around that	12:42
fowlduck	LaserJock, and how to make the installer customized? one thing at a time?	12:43
fowlduck	just get all this in so it's less of a leap?	12:43
crimsun	from what level, though? In GNOME? Because there's no "automounting" at the cli or in X Window System.	12:43
LaserJock	right	12:43
LaserJock	I was thinking you'd go with a different WM	12:43
fowlduck	crimsun, the lowest possible	12:43
fowlduck	naw, the current is fine	12:44
crimsun	"the lowest possible"?	12:44
fowlduck	crimsun, the lowest possible level of automounting	12:44
fowlduck	crimsun, I can screw with gconf and gvm	12:44
crimsun	that's just two gconf settings.	12:44
fowlduck	crimsun, but if there is something lower it can cause tampering with evidence	12:44
fowlduck	which makes it not forensically sound	12:45
crimsun	fowlduck: all automounting is done by g-v-m	12:45
fowlduck	which makes it all but useless	12:45
fowlduck	crimsun, ahhhh, ok thanks	12:45
crimsun	there's nothing lower (we don't include any kernel patches) in our default config	12:45
fowlduck	ok, great	12:46
fowlduck	ok, so install ubuntu and get packaging on here :)	12:46
fowlduck	up until now I've been doing it in a VM	12:46
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fowlduck	hehe	12:46
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fowlduck	thanks for your help, I'll be back later ( crimsun and LaserJock )	12:47
LaserJock	ok, cya	12:48
fowlduck	oh, one more thing, packages should not install into /usr/local	12:48
fowlduck	right?	12:48
LaserJock	right	12:48
fowlduck	ok, so where then? /usr?	12:48
crimsun	yes	12:48
fowlduck	/usr/program/?	12:48
crimsun	--prefix=/usr	12:48
fowlduck	crimsun, two of those don't use a configure	12:49
crimsun	that's fine, you can move them	12:49
fowlduck	ok, so let them install there then use the rules file to move them?	12:49
crimsun	/usr/local/ is reserved for local admin	12:49
crimsun	no, modify their Makefiles to accept DESTDIR	12:49
fowlduck	ok	12:49
fowlduck	then use rules to specify the destdir	12:50
crimsun	yes.	12:50
fowlduck	in the make	12:50
fowlduck	ok, thanks	12:50
LaserJock	and politely ask upstream to adjust for DESTIDIR ;-)	12:50
fowlduck	oh, and if a program only has one config file, should it only be in /etc? I shouldn't make another directory under /etc to hold it? ex: /etc/program/program.conf	12:51
fowlduck	LaserJock, oh, ok	12:51
fowlduck	LaserJock, although it may be in /usr/local for a reason, as these tools should probably only be run by root...I think	12:51
crimsun	no, /usr/local/ on Debian systems is unconditionally not to be mucked with	12:52
LaserJock	that has nothing to do with /usr/local	12:52
fowlduck	oh, ok	12:52
fowlduck	thanks	12:52
LaserJock	/usr/sbin/ might be the place then, not sure though	12:52
fowlduck	kk	12:53
crimsun	and I would say that /etc/somedir/ is cleaner	12:53
crimsun	even if it is just that one file	12:53
fowlduck	crimsun, I would think so, but I'd like to do it a standard way	12:53
fowlduck	crimsun, whats worse is one wants to install its' config file in /usr/local/etc	12:54
crimsun	Makefile hacking.	12:54
fowlduck	you actually have to modify the source to change it too	12:54
fowlduck	i wish it was just the makefile	12:54
fowlduck	and I guess we're not supposed to modify the source too	12:54
LaserJock	that's what patches are for	12:55
fowlduck	hmm, so how does one make patches? (like a diff?)	12:56
fowlduck	i mean, you can just point me to a program to do it or a link and i'll figure it out, i've already pestered you guys enough	12:56
crimsun	something based on diff(1), yes	12:57
LaserJock	boy, this really is "point out deficencies in the packaging guide" day :-)	12:57
fowlduck	hehe	12:57
fowlduck	it's all for the greater good	12:58
fowlduck	think of it as "improving the packaging guide" day :)	12:58
LaserJock	well, that needs more than a day	12:59
LaserJock	:-)	12:59
fowlduck	bit by bit, piece by piece	12:59
fowlduck	so, what program can be used for patching?	12:59
fowlduck	I'd like to get to this packaging	12:59
fowlduck	::::) (<==A spider smiling)	01:00
crimsun	patch(1)	01:01
fowlduck	ok, thanks	01:01
crimsun	to generate a unified diff, use something based on diff(1)	01:01
fowlduck	unified diff?	01:01
crimsun	it's a particular diff format	01:01
fowlduck	ok	01:02
fowlduck	which is what I need to submit this package or something?	01:02
fowlduck	i'm confused	01:02
fowlduck	hi	01:03
crimsun	diff(1) is used to generate a line-by-line summary of differences between file{,s}	01:03
crimsun	you can apply a file generated by diff(1) using patch(1)	01:03
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fowlduck	ok, so use diff to make the patch, how does this affect the packaging?	01:04
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LaserJock	you can include a patch to the source in your packaging	01:05
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fowlduck	is there an official way to do this?	01:06
=== fowlduck busts out the packaging guide
fowlduck	i need to buy that	01:07
LaserJock	https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-updating.html	01:07
LaserJock	^^ has a bit of info on dpatch	01:07
fowlduck	ok thanks	01:07
fowlduck	you guys are always so helpful crimsun, and LaserJock	01:08
LaserJock	crimsun: btw, I talked to doko about python-central et. al. in B-D-I	01:08
LaserJock	fowlduck: np	01:08
fowlduck	thanks thanks, double-thanks	01:08
crimsun	LaserJock: great. What was the resolution?	01:08
fowlduck	so talk to you guys later	01:09
LaserJock	crimsun: basically, put stuff you need for clean in B-D and the rest in B-D-I	01:09
LaserJock	fowlduck: cya	01:09
crimsun	LaserJock: ok, that's what I thought	01:09
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sander	Hello, does anyone here know how packages are added to edgy? rationale: gnome-hearts hit debian/unstable a few days ago and I like to see it in edgy and backport it to dapper	01:57
LaserJock	sander: I don't think we are automatically grabing packages still	01:58
LaserJock	so we would need to either request as sync if it builds fine on edgy or manually merge it	01:58
LaserJock	backporting can be done once it's in edgy	01:58
sander	pbuilder works fine on Ubuntu so a sync should work. Where do I request a sync?	01:59
crimsun	it'll be synced in automatically.	01:59
crimsun	it entered on the fifth of July, which was prior to UVF	02:00
crimsun	just be patient	02:00
crimsun	the buildds have days worth of building to do	02:00
sander	still? I thought only packeges that were synced on edgy creation were auto-synced, not new packages after the big debian snapshot	02:00
LaserJock	they have a script which tells them about new packages since they last synced	02:01
crimsun	universe freeze isn't until late Sept	02:01
crimsun	there's plenty of time remaining for sync	02:01
crimsun	s	02:01
LaserJock	I assumed they wouldn't be automatic after UVF	02:01
crimsun	they're not, but this date falls prior to UVF	02:02
sander	When is UVF then?	02:02
crimsun	it was the thirteenth	02:03
sander	hmmm....	02:03
sander	gnome-hearts was uploaded the 5th. I should be okay then	02:04
crimsun	keep in mind virtually nothing was buildable the past couple days.	02:04
sander	and how about the edgy/main repository? What is the procedure for getting packages in there? Or is that selection already frozen?	02:05
crimsun	UVF is already passed.	02:05
crimsun	past.	02:06
LaserJock	crimsun: are you sure it got in?	02:06
crimsun	LaserJock: no, but it doesn't matter	02:06
LaserJock	crimsun: I can't find it anywhere	02:06
crimsun	it would be synced into universe, not into main	02:06
LaserJock	right, but are you sure we are still autosyncing?	02:06
crimsun	no, we're not afaik	02:07
LaserJock	so wouldn't someone have to manually request a sync? or perhaps we just have to wait for Keybuck	02:07
crimsun	I can't imagine we won't sync again at least once more	02:07
LaserJock	yeah	02:07
crimsun	you can request a sync into, sure, but I'm pretty sure it'll be redundant.	02:08
sander	In case it doesn't appear in a couple of days, how can I request a sync?	02:08
crimsun	file a bug against gnome-hearts, subscribe (don't assign to) ubuntu-archive	02:09
LaserJock	he can't file a bug against gnome-hearts	02:09
crimsun	right, which is why it's pointless	02:09
LaserJock	but I think people have been just filing against ubuntu in those cases	02:10
crimsun	wait, and you want to backport this into dapper-backports?	02:10
crimsun	we're not allowed to introduce new packages	02:10
sander	yeah, but that's extra. First I want Edgy sorted. Dapper is bonus :-)	02:11
crimsun	dapper-backports is not valid in this case	02:11
crimsun	edgy will be fine, since it can be synced in anytime between now and Sept 28th	02:11
sander	Good, thanks. And after that I could request a backport for dapper? Which would go in dapper/universe or dapper/backports?	02:13
crimsun	you can't request it into dapper.	02:14
crimsun	that's what I was trying to explain.	02:14
crimsun	gnome-hearts didn't exist in dapper when dapper was released, so it'd be a new package	02:14
crimsun	we can't backport new packages	02:14
sander	Ah, so backports only has edgy versions of dapper packages, right?	02:15
crimsun	right.	02:15
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sander	Thanks. One more question if you don't mind: how is the edgy/main selected? Or was that done too at UVF?	02:16
crimsun	what do you mean by "selected"?	02:17
sander	Well, you guys select a subset of the debian repros for the edgy/main repro. The rest goes in edgy/universe or multiverse.	02:18
sander	Or did I misunderstand?	02:18
crimsun	slightly	02:18
sander	ah....	02:18
crimsun	main and restricted are supported; all other components aren't	02:18
crimsun	so if something's in main, it has to have a darned good reason to be there	02:19
crimsun	i.e., random new Debian package doesn't end up in main	02:19
crimsun	it has to be a requirement/dependency of another main package	02:19
crimsun	and even then it's not guaranteed	02:19
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sander	I understand. I saw talk of revising the list of games for edgy, hence my question	02:20
crimsun	well it's a shoe-in for universe, but promoting it to main is much more difficult	02:21
sander	That's what I thought. And I can't find documentation about that process (if there is a process to begin with)	02:21
LaserJock	you have to write a Main inclusion report	02:22
crimsun	yes, it's called promotion, and it's recorded via anastacia	02:22
crimsun	right, you need to write up a "MIR"	02:22
crimsun	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportBeecrypt for an example	02:23
crimsun	canonical instructions: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionRequirements	02:24
sander	Thanks for that. Much reading to do :-)	02:25
sander	What's the best place to see when my package gets synced into edgy? Currently I simply browse archive.ubuntu.com but I have a feeling there's a better place for that	02:27
LaserJock	sander: hmm, there is the edgy-changes mailing list	02:28
LaserJock	I think there is also an RSS feed somewhere	02:28
sander	Found it. Thanks for the help. You too crimsun	02:30
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shawarma	Does anyone here have an amd64 box?	03:07
shawarma	I'll be coming into possession of such a thing within a few days, but there's a few things I don't quite understand.	03:08
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Fujitsu	shawarma, I have experience with a couple.	03:08
Fujitsu	shawarma, what do you wish to know?	03:08
shawarma	Fujitsu: I'm just a little confused about the i386 compatibility thing.. Does it actually run stuff compiled for i386?	03:09
Fujitsu	shawarma, if you install the i386 version, yes.	03:09
shawarma	I'll be installing the amd64 version of course.	03:09
Fujitsu	Ah.	03:09
Fujitsu	You'll need a 32-bit chroot then, to run 32-bit apps.	03:09
tseng	simple answer: you cant run 32-bit apps on 64-bit ubuntu	03:09
shawarma	But a chroot will do?	03:10
shawarma	I'm not into simple answers. :-)	03:10
tseng	linux32 chroot myubuntu32chroot/	03:10
tseng	works for simple things	03:10
tseng	chroot gets complicated for running services or X etc	03:10
shawarma	Because of chroot or because of amd64 vs. i386 stuff?	03:11
tseng	because of chroot	03:11
shawarma	Ok. I can handle that.	03:11
shawarma	So the reason I need the chroot is to make the dynamic linker happy more easily?	03:11
tseng	er	03:12
tseng	not really.	03:12
tseng	there are very few 32 bit libs in 64-bit ubuntu	03:12
shawarma	I recently came into contact with a amd64 box running redhat. It had a bunch of i386 libs installed too.. What purpose would they serve?	03:12
shawarma	tseng: Yes, I'd imagine.	03:12
tseng	we have linux 32 libs for amd64 also	03:13
shawarma	What I meant was: In a chroot, the linker won't see anything but i386 stuff and as such will not try to link things compiled for different archs.	03:13
tseng	nothing sees anything outside the chroot	03:13
tseng	its totally contained	03:14
shawarma	Or is that handled by some other mechanism?	03:14
shawarma	tseng: Yes, yes. I know.	03:14
tseng	if you want to think of it in terms of the linker, fine.	03:14
shawarma	Well... I suppose I'm looking for an answer to: "Why is the chroot needed?"	03:14
tseng	its a complete set of libs, linker, compiler, apps	03:14
tseng	for 32 bit	03:14
tseng	a full system (minus kernel)	03:15
shawarma	Yes, but the chroot only pertains to filesystems. It's still using the same kernel.	03:15
tseng	you run linux32 chroot mydir/	03:15
tseng	and the apps think you are using a 32 bit kernel	03:15
tseng	the kernel can handle running 32 bit code	03:15
shawarma	Ah... I see.	03:15
tseng	and so can the cpu	03:15
tseng	it is just a limitation in our 64 bit userland	03:15
tseng	we dont have something called multilib	03:16
tseng	look it up if you are really interested	03:16
shawarma	Look up "multilib"?	03:17
tseng	sure.	03:17
shawarma	I will..	03:17
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shawarma	I think I understand now.	03:17
tseng	cool	03:17
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shawarma	So i can just create a pbuilder for amd64 and one for i386 and not have to worry about cross compiling, qemu's or whatever? That's pretty neat.	03:18
tseng	yeah it is	03:18
Hobbsee	morning all	03:18
shawarma	The dynamic linker confusion comes from the infamous redhat system I saw. It had both a lib64 and a lib dir so the two architectures' libs coexisted in the same filesystem. I just imagined it'd cause linker weirdness all the time.	03:19
shawarma	On an Ubuntu amd64, is it also called /usr/lib64 or still just /usr/lib ?	03:20
shawarma	Silly me. I actually have access to an amd64 system right now.. I'll just snoop around on that one.	03:21
shawarma	tseng: Thanks a lot for your help!	03:21
tseng	np	03:21
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shawarma	Hmm... On a standard Ubuntu amd64, the /usr/lib32 wouldn't be needed, right?	03:24
shawarma	I'm just wondering why it's present on this system.. It's a plain vanilla webserver.	03:25
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Riddell	shawarma: openoffice will need it	03:33
Riddell	and the directory will probably be made along with the bootstrapping	03:34
shawarma	Riddell: Why would openoffice need it?	03:35
shawarma	Riddell: Has it not been properly ported to amd64?	03:35
shawarma	Riddell: I remember something about it actually having some assembler code in it to do some introspection stuff.. That might not be very easily ported..	03:35
shawarma	Riddell: But yes, the directory might be created during the bootstrapping.	03:36
Riddell	no, it's not been ported to amd64 except by fedora	03:37
shawarma	Really? something we can't steal?	03:38
shawarma	Riddell: You're in roughly the same timezone as I am... What's your excuse for being up this late?	03:39
Riddell	noisy neighbours	03:39
shawarma	ah. the average age of my neighbours is around 75.. They're very quiet this time of night. :-)	03:40
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shawarma	Oh, well. It's almost 4 am. I'm off to bed.	03:49
shawarma	g'night guys!	03:49
shawarma	..and Hobbsee. :-)	03:49
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fowlduck	hallo again	04:13
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Laser_away	heretician: working on it :-)	05:17
nixternal	Laser_away: help me..im retarded	05:23
Laser_away	lol	05:24
nixternal	i uploaded to 'revu' last night right...and now im trying to logon by doing the "request password" deal	05:24
nixternal	i do it right..and it tells me to type in the decrypt line, and past the text below...there is no text below	05:24
nixternal	wth is wrong with me?	05:24
nixternal	as i am sure it isn't anything else but stoooooopid ol' me	05:25
Laser_away	no, I think it could be a problem	05:25
Laser_away	you uploaded ok?	05:25
nixternal	yes	05:25
nixternal	a few packages	05:25
Laser_away	you package is on REVU?	05:25
nixternal	1 good 2 bad i thik	05:25
nixternal	i don't see it yet	05:25
nixternal	almost 24 hours since i up'd it	05:25
Laser_away	ok, but one worked anyway	05:26
heretician	Laser_away: Cool hehe	05:26
nixternal	on..all worked	05:26
nixternal	im saying the packages were 1 good 2 bad	05:26
Laser_away	heh	05:26
nixternal	or 1 good, 1 almost there, and 1 bad	05:26
Laser_away	ok, so did you make sure to use the same email address as is in the changelog of your packages	05:27
heretician	Should I be getting EasyUbuntu: For Developers: Bleeding Edge?	05:28
Laser_away	no	05:28
nixternal	yup	05:30
nixternal	email address is correct	05:31
Laser_away	are you in the ubuntu-universe-contributors LP team	05:31
nixternal	yup	05:31
Laser_away	hmm :(	05:32
nixternal	hehe exactly	05:32
Laser_away	I don't know why it wouldn't work	05:32
nixternal	im sure crimsun will come along and go oh, you do this little thing here which is right in front of your face	05:32
nixternal	i gotta eat something	05:32
nixternal	brb	05:32
crimsun	no, actually it's the same thing I ran into some time gao	05:32
crimsun	ago^	05:32
nixternal	ahh	05:32
nixternal	speak of the devil	05:33
crimsun	you need an admin to reset your pass	05:33
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nixternal	roger that..and one of the 4 or 5 admins listed on the REVU wiki	05:33
nixternal	aj, \sh and such	05:33
Laser_away	just email admin at tiber.tauware.de	05:33
nixternal	thx Laser_away	05:34
nixternal	i will do that	05:34
nixternal	bbiaf	05:34
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Fujitsu	The wiki doesn't actually say how to get started in the whole Ubuntu packaging business... Any pointers?	05:42
Laser_away	help.ubuntu.com	05:42
Laser_away	click on go to the Packaging Guide	05:42
Fujitsu	Well, I know how to package...	05:43
Laser_away	bah, that was a messed up sentence	05:43
Fujitsu	I mean, how to do something useful.	05:43
Fujitsu	I have a fair amount of experience with debhelper...	05:43
Laser_away	well, you can fix bugs or work on the Universe merge	05:43
crimsun	yeah, why doesn't the PG give me a pony? huh? HUH?	05:44
Laser_away	shesh, sorry	05:44
Laser_away	maybe I'll throw in an ASCII art pony just for you crimsun	05:44
Fujitsu	Oh, I assumed only proper MOTUs were working on the merge....	05:44
Fujitsu	Hahahha.	05:44
Fujitsu	Good idea.	05:44
fowlduck	hi	05:45
fowlduck	everyone	05:45
Laser_away	Fujitsu: the general rule is, anything a MOTU can do you can do as well, you just need a MOTU to sponsor it	05:45
Fujitsu	Ah. OK.	05:45
crimsun	anyone seen Ming Hua lately?	05:45
Laser_away	that's how you become a MOTU in the first place	05:45
Laser_away	crimsun: no, unfortunately :(	05:45
crimsun	those merges are sitting there	05:45
Fujitsu	Laser_away, aha. That's what I thought.	05:46
Laser_away	wow, I've got a lot more that list than I remember	05:46
Laser_away	all of like 5 packages	05:46
Laser_away	although I don't really want to claim tightvnc	05:47
crimsun	you love that included XFree86 source, really, you do.	05:47
Laser_away	noooooo	05:47
Fujitsu	X must be the most lovely package to maintain.	05:47
Fujitsu	390 new merges... That's quite a few remaining.	05:48
Laser_away	yep	05:48
=== Fujitsu looks for a good package to start with that doesn't have too many Ubuntu-specific changes.
Laser_away	Fujitsu: the Packaging Guide does have a section on merging ;-)	05:49
Fujitsu	Laser_away, I noticed :)	05:49
Laser_away	and you left #ubuntu-science, don't you like us any more ;-)	05:49
Fujitsu	No, I had too many channels.	05:49
Fujitsu	I joined #ubuntu-motu-school instead.	05:50
Fujitsu	Stupid 20 channel limit.	05:50
Laser_away	probably not as many as crimsun	05:50
Fujitsu	I have to switch between a few.	05:50
Laser_away	doh, I'm going to need to add -school back in too	05:50
Fujitsu	Any ideas on why that limit is in place?	05:50
Laser_away	I wasn't aware of a limit	05:50
Fujitsu	So, should I just pick a package?	05:51
Fujitsu	Laser_away, there's a limit of 20 channels.	05:51
Laser_away	though I never go much beyond 10-15 myself	05:51
Fujitsu	And I have been hitting it for months.	05:51
Laser_away	Fujitsu: yeah, look for one where the diffs aren't huge	05:51
Fujitsu	Yeah, I shall.	05:51
Fujitsu	I do like that easier-motuing spec. A very good idea.	05:52
Laser_away	we hope so	05:52
Laser_away	if you want any easy one space-orbit is one of mine that looks easy	05:52
Laser_away	ok, I really have to be away now	05:52
Laser_away	my "doing the finances" has turned into "hang out on irc"	05:53
Fujitsu	Bye.	05:53
Fujitsu	OK, I'll look at space-orbit.	05:53
Fujitsu	Thanks :D	05:53
fowlduck	hmm, are there any instructions on signing packages?	06:07
fowlduck	on how to use it with revu and whatnot?	06:07
crimsun	debsign(1)	06:07
fowlduck	ok, thanks	06:07
crimsun	if you use debuild, pass -k	06:08
crimsun	although if you only have one uid associated with your key, you won't need -k	06:08
Fujitsu	The Ubuntu changes for space-orbit are just dependency ones... Debian merges one change, but not the other.	06:08
fowlduck	I'm not sure what a UID is	06:08
Fujitsu	fowlduck, email address.	06:09
fowlduck	Fujitsu, ahh, ok	06:09
crimsun	Fujitsu: are you positive? According to the Ubuntu changelog there's a .desktop delta, too.	06:10
crimsun	oh d'oh, wrong changelog	06:10
Fujitsu	Yeah, there is no change.	06:10
Fujitsu	That was merged to Debian a little earlier.	06:10
crimsun	just request a sync, then tell me the bug #, and I'll Ok it	06:11
crimsun	sorry, let me actually look	06:11
Fujitsu	But there is a little difference in the dependencies. Two dependencies were changed for 1.0.1-8ubuntu1.	06:11
Fujitsu	Only one is back in Debian now.	06:11
Fujitsu	Thanks, crimsun.	06:12
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Fujitsu	Surely the GL package dependencies in Debian are correct?	06:13
crimsun	no, it can't be synced. It still needs a merge.	06:13
Fujitsu	OK, I thought so.	06:14
Fujitsu	But does it really?	06:14
crimsun	the delta for the GL{,u} is valid.	06:14
Fujitsu	There are no other changes in Debian.	06:14
crimsun	"libglu1-mesa-dev \| libglu-dev, libgl1-mesa-dev \| libgl-dev" is correct.	06:14
Fujitsu	So a merge will be identical except for the version,.	06:14
Fujitsu	But is a merge actually necessary if there are no changes?	06:15
crimsun	there is a change.	06:15
=== crimsun looks closer
Fujitsu	The changelog and build-deps are the only things that have changed in both Ubuntu and Debian. The Debian change will just be overwritten when the Ubuntu diff is put over the top.	06:16
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crimsun	ok, no.	06:17
crimsun	I was correct the first time	06:17
crimsun	it's syncable	06:17
crimsun	the reason being Debian's "xlibmesa-gl-dev, libglu1-mesa-dev" is valid for Edgy	06:17
Fujitsu	OK, good good.	06:17
Fujitsu	Thanks for checking that.	06:17
=== Fujitsu files a bug.
Fujitsu	Bug #53114	06:19
Ubugtu	Malone bug 53114 in space-orbit "Please sync 1.01-8.1 from Debian Sid" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/53114	06:19
crimsun	Ok'd	06:22
Fujitsu	Thanks.	06:22
Fujitsu	OK, I've done merged the Ubuntu changes for vpnc... Does the changelog want to be left alone when it says it was changed by MoM?	06:30
Fujitsu	*just	06:30
crimsun	nope, put your name and e-mail	06:31
Fujitsu	OK.	06:31
crimsun	generate the source package, stash the diff.gz+dsc somewhere, and I'll look & upload	06:32
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Hotwheelz	Hi guys how are we doing?	06:33
Fujitsu	OK, I'll upload them now.	06:34
Fujitsu	Hi, Hotwheelz.	06:35
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Hotwheelz	Hi, Fujitsu	06:37
Hotwheelz	I have a question for you	06:37
Fujitsu	crimsun, http://people.ubuntu-au.org/~fujitsu/vpnc_0.3.3+SVN20051028-3ubuntu1.diff.gz and http://people.ubuntu-au.org/~fujitsu/vpnc_0.3.3+SVN20051028-3ubuntu1.dsc	06:37
crimsun	uploaded.	06:41
Fujitsu	To the archive?	06:41
crimsun	yes.	06:42
Fujitsu	Thanks!	06:42
crimsun	np. Out for coffee, back in a bit.	06:43
Hotwheelz	Fujitsu brb	06:43
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Fujitsu	crimsun, I've got another thing which is just those GL dependencies on the Ubuntu side.	06:53
Fujitsu	From `xlibmesa-gl-dev \| libgl-dev, xlibmesa-glu-dev \| libglu-dev' to `libgl1-mesa-dev \| libgl-dev, libglu1-mesa-dev \| libglu-dev'	06:53
Fujitsu	I'll be back shortly, lunch beckons.	06:56
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=== Fujitsu is back.
crimsun	Fujitsu: xlibmesa-glu-dev is invalid for both Debian and Ubuntu	07:10
Fujitsu	So change it to xlibmesa-gl-dev, libglu1-mesa-dev, as was done for space-orbit?	07:11
crimsun	what does Debian have?	07:12
Fujitsu	libgl1-mesa-dev \| libgl-dev, libglu1-mesa-dev \| libglu-dev	07:12
Fujitsu	Oop.s	07:12
Fujitsu	No.	07:12
Fujitsu	xlibmesa-gl-dev \| libgl-dev, xlibmesa-glu-dev \| libglu-dev	07:12
Fujitsu	That other one was what Ubuntu has now.	07:12
crimsun	just add libglu1-mesa-dev as an alternate for xlibmesa-glu-dev	07:12
crimsun	xlibmesa-gl-dev \| libgl-dev, libglu1-mesa-dev \| xlibmesa-glu-dev \| libglu-dev	07:13
crimsun	(ideally Debian needs to go libglu1-mesa-dev \| libglu-dev)	07:13
Fujitsu	Aha. OK.	07:13
crimsun	very quickly, this is what's valid:	07:14
crimsun	for gl dev: xlibmesa-gl-dev and libgl1-mesa-dev	07:14
crimsun	for glu dev: libglu1-mesa-dev	07:14
Fujitsu	Aha, thanks.	07:15
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fowlduck	do i actually have to meet with someone to get my gpg key signed?	07:16
Fujitsu	fowlduck, if you want to be really proper.	07:17
crimsun	so, "yes".	07:17
Fujitsu	I must meet with Adam Conrad or somebody...	07:17
fowlduck	so to submit packages i have to get it signed?	07:17
crimsun	to submit packages to the Ubuntu archive proper, yes, you do	07:18
crimsun	to submit packages to REVU, no	07:18
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Fujitsu	crimsun, care to take a look at http://people.ubuntu-au.org/~fujitsu/trackballs_1.1.1-3ubuntu1.dsc and http://people.ubuntu-au.org/~fujitsu/trackballs_1.1.1-3ubuntu1.diff.gz?	07:24
crimsun	Fujitsu: actually the MoM-generated merge would have sufficed	07:29
Fujitsu	Would it?	07:29
Fujitsu	I think there was a conflict...	07:29
Fujitsu	Oops.	07:29
Fujitsu	You're right.	07:29
Fujitsu	But the dependencies from the Ubuntu one are wrong, I think.	07:30
crimsun	for which binar{y,ies}?	07:31
Fujitsu	Build dependencies, sorry.	07:31
Fujitsu	Or has MoM got some odd intelligence which allows it to correct them?	07:32
crimsun	which ones look suspicious to you?	07:32
Fujitsu	The GL ones.	07:32
Fujitsu	They're missing xlibmesa-gl-dev.	07:32
crimsun	the GL ones are fine. The merges are done based on the last Ubuntu package.	07:32
crimsun	"libgl1-mesa-dev \| libgl-dev" works	07:33
crimsun	note: 01:14 < crimsun> for gl dev: xlibmesa-gl-dev and libgl1-mesa-dev	07:33
crimsun	that "and" should be an "or", actually	07:33
Fujitsu	Ah. OK.	07:34
crimsun	so if the B-D has either xlibmesa-gl-dev or libgl1-mesa-dev, it's fine	07:34
Fujitsu	Ahhh. OK.	07:34
Fujitsu	Well, MoM's merge is good then.	07:34
Fujitsu	And wininfo is syncable.	07:34
crimsun	right, attribute yourself, link the updated diff.gz+dsc	07:35
crimsun	it's good practice, btw, to pbuild these in an edgy pbuilder, too.	07:35
Fujitsu	OK, I haven't got an Edgy one yet, just Dapper and Breezy. I'll build one tomorrow when I get to school... There's some reasonable bandwidth there.	07:36
crimsun	ok	07:36
crimsun	(I've been going over them and pbuilding prior to upload, so you're fine for now)	07:36
Fujitsu	Well, I've updated the trackballs ones. They are now the MoM-generated ones.	07:40
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crimsun	uploaded.	07:47
Fujitsu	Aha, thanks. And I'll file a bug about wininfo.	07:47
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Fujitsu	A quick visit.	07:48
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Fujitsu	crimsun, bug #53115 is the wininfo one.	07:51
Ubugtu	Malone bug 53115 in wininfo "Please sync 0.7-1.1 from Debian Sid" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/53115	07:51
crimsun	done.	07:53
Fujitsu	Thankyou!	07:55
Fujitsu	dclock looks OK to be synced, except for one thing. A build-dep was added in the last Ubuntu release for makedepend. That isn't in the new Debian version. I can't see why it would be necessary in Ubuntu if it isn't in Debian...	07:56
crimsun	well, back in the hoary/breezy days when we started the monolithic->modular split, we split out a lot of packages	07:57
fowlduck	are there separate webs of trust? how can I be sure my key is signed into the proper one to submit packages to the ubuntu archives	07:57
crimsun	so in dapper, we have imake, but in debian sid it's now xutils-dev	07:58
Fujitsu	Aha.	07:58
Fujitsu	The Debian changelog mentions imake.	07:58
Fujitsu	So, sync it?	07:58
crimsun	lemme look	07:58
Fujitsu	It's the only change.	07:58
crimsun	well, to answer that we need to build-test	07:59
Fujitsu	True.	08:00
fowlduck	crimsun, is there a specific web of trust I need to be in?	08:00
crimsun	fowlduck: your key needs to be signed by someone in the strong set	08:00
Fujitsu	Most of them would be interconnected, fowlduck.	08:00
fowlduck	crimsun, and is there a way to find them?	08:01
crimsun	Fujitsu: yep, a sync is fine.	08:01
Fujitsu	crimsun, great!	08:01
Fujitsu	It's good getting rid of Ubuntu-specific changes...	08:01
crimsun	fowlduck: every member of the ubuntu-dev LP team is in the strong set, so find one closest to you geographically	08:01
Fujitsu	I really must organise that with infinity...	08:02
fowlduck	ok, so ubuntu-dev LP, can I find them on ubuntu's site or something?	08:02
Fujitsu	launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev	08:02
crimsun	fowlduck: you're not limited to just ubuntu devs, of course. Anyone in the strong set will do.	08:02
fowlduck	crimsun, so how do I determine this?	08:02
fowlduck	i mean, i'm lost here :/	08:02
crimsun	fowlduck: well, if you haven't gotten your key signed, you aren't in the strong set ;)	08:03
fowlduck	crimsun, good, so only 6.5 billion possibilities	08:03
crimsun	not quite	08:03
crimsun	find someone close to you geographically	08:03
crimsun	where are you located?	08:03
fowlduck	yes, i'm asking how to find them	08:03
fowlduck	Madison, WI	08:03
fowlduck	USA	08:03
Fujitsu	Bug #53116 for the sync, crimsun.	08:04
Ubugtu	Malone bug 53116 in dclock "Please sync 2.1.2-8 from Debian Sid" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/53116	08:04
crimsun	fowlduck: oh, there are several people closeby	08:04
crimsun	close by	08:04
fowlduck	nice! :)	08:04
crimsun	debian developers	08:04
fowlduck	ooooh	08:04
fowlduck	where are you looking for this?	08:04
crimsun	you can use any of the debian and ubuntu geographical locators in addition to biglumber.com	08:05
fowlduck	ok	08:05
fowlduck	geograpical locators? link?	08:05
crimsun	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWorldWide	08:06
fowlduck	ok, thanks, as usual you rock	08:06
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Fujitsu	Did I hear something about moving back to gksu rather than gksudo in Edgy?	08:09
crimsun	I'm not familiar w/ it, but it's possible	08:09
=== Fujitsu shudders at the sight of the delta in Ubuntu's Firestarter... Translations.
fowlduck	crimsun, i have no idea how to use that locator on debian's site...heh	08:12
fowlduck	ahh, i found a wisconsinite	08:14
fowlduck	nice	08:14
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fowlduck	crimsun, are these ubuntu users or devs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWorldWide	08:17
robitaille	fowlduck, both	08:18
crimsun	users	08:18
crimsun	some are devs	08:18
fowlduck	ok, so how do I know who is in the strong set?	08:18
crimsun	you can use virtually any keyserver. Basically enter the person's key id and choose the keyanalyze report.	08:20
fowlduck	i meant with the people on that list	08:20
fowlduck	i just found raphink's in google :)	08:21
crimsun	you can type their names into the keyanalyze report, too	08:23
fowlduck	this is frustrating, maybe i should come back tomorrow and do this	08:28
Fujitsu	Does CDBS' simple-patchsys just automatically apply all of the patches in debian/patches?	08:30
crimsun	yesyes	08:31
crimsun	hmm, repeat	08:31
Fujitsu	In that case, galculator is fine for syncing. The diff was just to fix a bug which was fixed in the next upstream version.	08:32
Fujitsu	How often is MoM updated?	08:32
crimsun	I don't think it has been updated in a couple days	08:33
crimsun	not sure, haven't looked more closely lately	08:33
Fujitsu	OK, bug #53117 is for gcalculator. The diff for the new Debian version is HUGE.	08:34
Ubugtu	Malone bug 53117 in galculator "Please sync 1.2.5.2-1 from Debian Sid" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/53117	08:34
=== Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-motu
Fujitsu	Hey Hobbsee!	08:41
Hobbsee	hi all	08:41
Hobbsee	hi Fujitsu :)	08:41
heretician	hihi	08:42
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=== Fujitsu looks for another package to attack.
Hobbsee	hi heretician	08:42
=== heretician wishes he could find a package to attack in the first place
Hobbsee	Fujitsu: you need to look? check merge-o-matic and pick something that looks interesting	08:42
fowlduck	grrrr	08:42
Fujitsu	(thanks for confirming that, crimsun)	08:42
Hobbsee	ogyou around?	08:42
heretician	Fujitsu, are you in MOTU?	08:42
Fujitsu	heretician, no.	08:43
Hobbsee	heretician: no he isnt	08:43
fowlduck	Hobbsee, you live near wisconsin at all?	08:43
heretician	Oh	08:43
Fujitsu	Hobbsee, I've done a few today.	08:43
crimsun	Hobbsee's in .au.	08:43
Hobbsee	fowlduck: nope, why? i'm in australia	08:43
Hobbsee	Fuj	08:43
heretician	Welp, going back to my packaging guides	08:43
Hobbsee	Fujitsu: yay :) did you do any of mine? :P	08:43
heretician	Whats a merge-o-matic?	08:43
fowlduck	just need to hunt someone down in the "GPG strong set"	08:43
fowlduck	i'm having issues	08:43
Fujitsu	heretician, it's INCREDIBLY useful.	08:43
Fujitsu	MoM is the best thing since sliced bread.	08:44
heretician	After you have became an experienced packager, correct?	08:44
raphink	heretician: there are tons of great apps to package on {KDE,GNOME}-apps.org	08:44
Fujitsu	heretician, not really.	08:44
Hobbsee	heretician: see merges.ubuntu.com - tells you what packages need to update, tries to update them, and gives you a list of stuff to fix	08:44
fowlduck	raphink, i'm using you as my reference for locating people in the strong set :)	08:44
raphink	fowlduck: ah really? lol	08:44
raphink	how come?	08:45
heretician	Hobbsee, well I don't know how to "update" packages yet, let alone fix them hehe-- so by experienced I mean at the limit of being able to troubleshoot a package	08:45
Hobbsee	fowlduck: you really dont need your key signed till you go for MOTU - until then, it's a good idea, but it's not mandatory	08:45
=== raphink doesn't remember having signed that many keys ;)
fowlduck	just came up randomly in a google search	08:45
Hobbsee	heretician: true	08:45
raphink	ah ok	08:45
fowlduck	raphink, you've signed 20, i see	08:45
Hobbsee	raphink: you can sign mine if we meet up one day, if you want.	08:45
raphink	sure Hobbsee :)	08:45
fowlduck	raphink, http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/henkp/henkp/pgp/pathfinder/stats/74BF771E.html	08:45
Hobbsee	raphink: i think i should get jdub to sign my key at some point - that could be fun :)	08:45
raphink	if you ever come to the French Riviera	08:45
heretician	Hobbsee, NP though, the last guide I am going to be reading that LaserJock gave me is extremely detailed-- so hopefully it will cover things like that	08:46
raphink	fowlduck: yes I know my PGP page :!)=	08:46
raphink	:)	08:46
heretician	Although thanks for the linkage, i'm adding those to my tips rtf hehe	08:46
Hobbsee	raphink: or we both get to the same developer conference	08:46
raphink	Hobbsee: that works, too	08:46
Hobbsee	heretician: that's true. it does, but rather poorly.	08:46
Hobbsee	imo	08:46
raphink	although you would enjoy the coast ;)	08:46
raphink	I'm sure	08:46
Hobbsee	raphink: indeed :_	08:46
Hobbsee	*:)	08:46
Hobbsee	raphink: maybe sometime i'll get a chance. in a week, i can get a 10 year passport :)	08:46
raphink	hehe great	08:47
fowlduck	jeeze, no one in wisconsin is in the strong set so far, at least those listed on biglumber	08:47
Hobbsee	fowlduck: who's in the strong set?	08:48
fowlduck	Hobbsee, raphink for one	08:48
Hobbsee	and if i got signed by a member of the strong set, does that make me in the strong set too, i wonder....	08:48
raphink	Hobbsee: people who have signed keys of people in the strongset ;)	08:48
crimsun	Hobbsee: yes.	08:48
Fujitsu	Hobbsee, I'm pretty sure.	08:48
Hobbsee	oh yay!	08:48
Fujitsu	How odd. gip only has a delta because was rebuilt because of a libsigc++ name change. No actual change.	08:49
heretician	Hobbsee: Any other Guides you would recommend I move on to AFTER https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html ?	08:49
raphink	yes Hobbsee	08:49
raphink	heretician: did you read the New Maintainer's Guide?	08:49
Hobbsee	Fujitsu: ie, that was the change from debian to ubuntu?	08:49
Fujitsu	Hobbsee, yeah.	08:49
Fujitsu	Hobbsee, just a changelog change. Nothing else.	08:49
heretician	raphink: Wasnt given that one :P	08:50
Hobbsee	heretician: then try a package, and refer back to any/all of the guides	08:50
raphink	heretician: sure you were, I made a strong point to have it as an introduction of the ubuntu packaging guide iirc	08:50
Hobbsee	Fujitsu: okay, cd .. and dpkg-source -x the debian source, and check it builds and installs on edgy. if it does, then you get to request a sync :)	08:50
raphink	at least I think I remember so	08:51
heretician	raphink: Hrm, well was it https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompilingSoftware or https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompilingEasyHowTo	08:51
Hobbsee	raphink: it's at the end, iirc	08:51
Fujitsu	Hobbsee, I haven't got an Edgy pbuilder yet (not enough bandwidth here, I'll build one at school tomorrow).	08:51
raphink	heretician: go to the Additional Ressources in the end of the Ubuntu Packaging GUide	08:51
raphink	the first link there is the DNMG	08:51
Hobbsee	Fujitsu: okay, nice, did you want me to test build it from here, then you can request a sync if it succeeds?	08:52
fowlduck	is there an easier way to locate those in the strong set in your area?	08:52
Fujitsu	Yes please, Hobbsee. crimsun's probably getting a little tired of testing mine :)	08:52
Hobbsee	Fujitsu: heh, he'll probably want to test anyway, if he's going to upload it.	08:52
Hobbsee	no, wait, if it's a sync, before he acks it.	08:53
heretician	raphink: Yup, I see them now-- Well I haven't got to that guide yet anyway	08:53
raphink	heretician: this is the reference guide	08:53
raphink	for Debian	08:53
heretician	raphink: So many :(	08:53
raphink	then if you still want to read, read Policy	08:53
raphink	at least a bit of it	08:53
fowlduck	aha! i found one	08:53
fowlduck	and only a 2 hour drive	08:54
raphink	lol	08:54
raphink	fowlduck: honestly, if you're wanting to get involved in FOSS, you'll find people to sign your key at the next linux event you'll attend	08:55
raphink	prolly Debian or Ubuntu people	08:55
raphink	since most other projects don't bother with keys	08:55
fowlduck	there aren't many in my area	08:55
Hobbsee	fowlduck: and it's really not that big a deal - you will meet people who can do it	08:55
raphink	fowlduck: aren't many what? linux events?	08:55
=== Hobbsee said that too. well, that she couldnt meet up with any of them.
fowlduck	aren't that many events...at least that I know of	08:55
raphink	fowlduck: where are you?	08:56
fowlduck	madison, WI, USA	08:56
raphink	how about these people ? http://www.madisonlinux.org/	08:56
fowlduck	yeah, i emailed them	08:56
fowlduck	irc channel is dead	08:57
raphink	ah	08:57
fowlduck	rather recent update but nothing about when they meet	08:57
raphink	mhm	08:57
fowlduck	small world: http://wistechnology.com/events.php	08:59
fowlduck	scroll down to MATC IT Education Open House	08:59
fowlduck	follow that link and scroll all the way down to the bottom	08:59
fowlduck	that's me on the bottom right	08:59
fowlduck	ha	09:00
fowlduck	i feel proud	09:00
Hobbsee	Fujitsu: go ahead and file the merge report for gip, it builds and installs fine	09:00
Hobbsee	Fujitsu: s/merge report/sync request/	09:01
Hobbsee	crimsun: want to ack Fujitsu's sync request when it gets done?	09:01
fowlduck	well, goodnight	09:02
fowlduck	crimsun, thanks for everything, as usual	09:02
crimsun	sure, just link	09:02
crimsun	I'm out for a bit but will check back in 20 mins	09:03
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Hobbsee	hi tuxmaniac	09:10
tuxmaniac	Hobbsee> howdy?	09:10
Hobbsee	tuxmaniac: i'm okay :) snuck out from work :D	09:11
crimsun	Fujitsu: anything in Ubuntu universe that's a -XbuildY can be synced	09:20
Hobbsee	crimsun: well, yeah, but do we know that for sure?	09:22
crimsun	yes	09:22
crimsun	otherwise we use ubuntu instead of build	09:22
StevenK	-XbuildY is a no-change upload to rebuild the package	09:23
StevenK	People going for -dev should know this. :-P	09:23
Hobbsee	i realise that	09:23
Hobbsee	StevenK: i knew that, i was merely thinking of those packages that build in debian, but ftbfs in ubuntu.	09:24
Hobbsee	of which i've seen a couple	09:24
=== StevenK has seen more than a couple.
Hobbsee	well, i've seen a couple this cycle.	09:24
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Hotwheelz	Hi I have a question for package developer in here can I ask that one pls dcc chat me thanks :-)	09:50
Hotwheelz	for a sorry	09:50
Hotwheelz	guys	09:52
Hobbsee	Hotwheelz: i doubt you'll get anyone answering to that.	09:53
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crimsun	Hotwheelz: pretty much the only time private queries make sense is for a security-related issue; otherwise we're all eyes.	09:55
Hotwheelz	ok then	09:56
Hotwheelz	if i run a packages search 4 Mythtv only 0.18 packages show up latest build is 0.19 when will the repositry\s be updated to reflect this?	09:56
crimsun	dapper will not be updated to use 0.19*	09:57
crimsun	I believe FunnyLookinHat is working to integrate mythtv 0.19* into multiverse	09:57
Fujitsu	Oops. I'm back now.	09:57
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Fujitsu	crimsun, bug #53122 is the gip sync request.	09:57
Ubugtu	Malone bug 53122 in gip "Please sync 1.6.1.1-1 from Debian Sid" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/53122	09:57
Hobbsee	Fujitsu: heya :)	09:57
Fujitsu	Thanks Hobbsee :)	09:57
Fujitsu	I was coaxed into playing a board-game with my 7 and 12 year-old siblings.	09:58
Fujitsu	Very painful it was.	09:58
Fujitsu	But parents can be persuasive.	09:58
Hotwheelz	hey Fujitsu	09:58
crimsun	Fujitsu: done.	09:59
Fujitsu	Thanks, crimsun.	09:59
crimsun	out for the morning, back later.	09:59
Hotwheelz	funnylooking are u there	09:59
Fujitsu	And now I'm being told that sitting at the computer all day is unhealthy, and thus I must leave it. (even though I was up for a couple of hours before, and away for a couple of hours today... and what else is there to do!?)	10:00
Hobbsee	hehe	10:00
Hobbsee	Fujitsu: my parents stopped telling me that a while ago :)	10:00
=== Hobbsee keeps sayign she's doing uni work a lot of the time
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Fujitsu	Saying I'm doing work doesn't work...	10:01
Fujitsu	It's stupid.	10:01
Hobbsee	Fujitsu: well, they never see the uni work anyway, so...	10:01
Hobbsee	:P	10:01
Fujitsu	Now they're making excuses. For example, they're saying I'll get deep-vein thrombosis.	10:03
Fujitsu	This is the first time they've brought such pathetic excuses into it.	10:03
heretician	Carpel tunnel.	10:05
heretician	Carpal* that is	10:05
heretician	"Initial treatment generally involves resting the affected hand and wrist for at least 2 weeks" two whole weeks!	10:07
Hobbsee	ah yes, there's a package under that name.	10:08
Hobbsee	rsi does happen	10:08
=== Hobbsee has had rsi from playing too much minesweeper on a touchpad before.
heretician	Minesweeper? People play that game?	10:08
Hobbsee	heretician: sure, its' a great game!	10:09
=== Hobbsee is rather mathematical, so it's fun :)
heretician	Too much Linux for you!	10:09
=== Hobbsee doesnt play it anymore
heretician	Im not mathematical at all hehe ;/	10:09
heretician	I wish more people would get on Atlantik	10:09
=== Hobbsee plays ksudoku now instead, as she pretty much maintains it in ubuntu
heretician	What's that	10:10
Hobbsee	!info ksudoku	10:10
ubotu	ksudoku: sudoku puzzle generator/solver. In repository universe, is optional. Version 0.3-3ubuntu2 (dapper), package size 117 kB, installed size 356 kB	10:10
heretician	Puzzles, now that's more my genre	10:10
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imbrandon	moins all	10:36
zakame	hi imbrandon and all	10:39
imbrandon		10:39
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phanatic	morning	11:12
=== Fujitsu is back.
Fujitsu	What's with ilohamail's version numbers!?	11:24
Fujitsu	0.8.14-0rc3sarge1, 0.8.14-0rc3sid2...	11:24
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-motu: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers \| http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU \| http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation \| Focus on http://tinyurl.com/nl87h (MOTU bugs) and http://tinyurl.com/rjcqu (UNMETDEPS) and http://tinyurl.com/kbxpe (mysqlclient) \| http://tinyurl.com/pghsw (motureviewers) \| [Edgy MoM] https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html \| Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-motu: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers \| http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU \| http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation \| Focus on http://tinyurl.com/nl87h (MOTU bugs) and http://tinyurl.com/rjcqu (UNMETDEPS) and http://tinyurl.com/kbxpe (mysqlclient) \| http://tinyurl.com/pghsw (motureviewers) \| [Edgy MoM] https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html \| Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU
=== Topic (#ubuntu-motu): set by Hobbsee at Thu Jun 29 10:40:30 2006
=== Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-motu: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers \| http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU \| http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation \| Focus on http://tinyurl.com/nl87h (MOTU bugs) and http://tinyurl.com/rjcqu (UNMETDEPS) and http://tinyurl.com/kbxpe (mysqlclient) \| http://tinyurl.com/pghsw (motureviewers) \| [Edgy MoM] https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html \| Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU
=== Topic (#ubuntu-motu): set by Hobbsee at Thu Jun 29 10:40:30 2006
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-motu: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers \| http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU \| http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation \| Focus on http://tinyurl.com/nl87h (MOTU bugs) and http://tinyurl.com/rjcqu (UNMETDEPS) and http://tinyurl.com/kbxpe (mysqlclient) \| http://tinyurl.com/pghsw (motureviewers) \| [Edgy MoM] https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html \| Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU
=== Topic (#ubuntu-motu): set by Hobbsee at Thu Jun 29 10:40:30 2006
=== Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-motu: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers \| http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU \| http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation \| Focus on http://tinyurl.com/nl87h (MOTU bugs) and http://tinyurl.com/rjcqu (UNMETDEPS) and http://tinyurl.com/kbxpe (mysqlclient) \| http://tinyurl.com/pghsw (motureviewers) \| [Edgy MoM] https://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html \| Add yourself to http://tinyurl.com/fgpgy to upload to REVU
=== Topic (#ubuntu-motu): set by Hobbsee at Thu Jun 29 10:40:30 2006
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Hobbsee	hi all	01:42
phanatic	hello Hobbsee	01:47
Fujitsu	Hi Hobbsee.	01:47
Hobbsee	hi phanatic, Fujitsu :)	01:47
Toadstool	hi everybody	01:47
Fujitsu	Hey Toadstool.	01:48
Toadstool	heya Fujitsu	01:48
Hobbsee	hi Toadstool	01:48
Toadstool	hi Hobbsee	01:49
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phanatic	hey Toadstool	01:52
Toadstool	hi phanatic	01:52
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ryanakca	how do you move a bug from edgy to dapper in launchpad... I just reported a bug... and it's listed in edgy... even though its a dapper bug	04:30
Hobbsee	ryanakca: you dont? what's the bug #?	04:37
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ryanakca	Hobbsee: I dont what? #53145	04:39
Hobbsee	bug 53145	04:39
Ubugtu	Malone bug 53145 in courier-pop "Missing configuration file for courier-pop. Does not install." [Untriaged,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/53145	04:39
ryanakca	Hobbsee: oh... then I need to set that bug to rejected and somehow reported it to dapper.	04:39
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Hobbsee	ryanakca: firstly, what's the source package for courier-pop?	04:40
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ryanakca	Hobbsee: fixed.	04:53
Hobbsee	ryanakca: i'd just add "on dapper" to the description of the bug	04:55
ryanakca	Hobbsee: courier	04:55
ryanakca	kk	04:55
ryanakca	done, ty :)	04:56
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=== Yagisan waves hello
FunnyLookinHat	Crap! I missed my big debut!	05:12
=== FunnyLookinHat pokes crimsun to see if he's alive
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=== FunnyLookinHat shrug
FunnyLookinHat	BBL	05:14
FunnyLookinHat	: )	05:14
Hobbsee	hi Yagisan!	05:16
Hobbsee	FunnyLookinHat: what's up?	05:16
FunnyLookinHat	hey Hobbsee : )	05:16
FunnyLookinHat	Did you all see that mdz is on the front page of /. ?	05:16
Hobbsee	FunnyLookinHat: nope	05:17
Hobbsee	where?	05:17
FunnyLookinHat	http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/15/1959221	05:17
FunnyLookinHat	mdz = Matt Zimmerman	05:17
Hobbsee	yeah, yeah, i realise that	05:18
FunnyLookinHat	Ahh ok, I only found out by accident : )	05:20
FunnyLookinHat	well I must be going. gotta get showered for church : ) cya Hobbsee	05:21
Hobbsee	cya :)	05:21
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Arbiter	is there any reviewer?	05:44
Arbiter	can someone review my smartpm package located here: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2709 - splitted because requested here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SmartPackageManager - thanks a lot	05:52
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freeflying\|away	Arbiter: smart is alredy in debian and ubuntu	06:01
Arbiter	freeflying\|away, i know	06:02
Arbiter	but a split was requested here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SmartPackageManager	06:02
Arbiter	split into smartpm & smartpm-gtk packages	06:02
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Arbiter	"The package needs to be split into a smart package and a smart-gtk package to make it feasible for server installs."	06:03
freeflying\|away	Arbiter: have talked with mvo?	06:03
Arbiter	freeflying\|away, Last Seen: 1 week 4 days (23h 43m 29s) ago	06:03
Arbiter	i thought that was better to start making the package	06:03
Arbiter	it can be always archived	06:04
Arbiter	but if approved the package would be alredy done	06:04
freeflying\|away	Arbiter: u'd better talk with mvo, he is the maintainer :)	06:04
Hobbsee	Arbiter: he doenst bite. much.	06:05
=== freeflying\|away beds time, nite all
Hobbsee	night freeflying\|away	06:05
Arbiter	Hobbsee, heh :D	06:05
Hobbsee	guess it is bedtime, hey...	06:05
=== Hobbsee will bed after building this package and requesting the sync.
Hobbsee	and testing.	06:05
Arbiter	it's 6pm here :D	06:05
Hobbsee	Arbiter: 2am monday here	06:06
Arbiter	:D	06:06
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=== Arbiter packages libgimp2.0-cil
Yagisan	Hobbsee: sure you'll go to bed. we believe you ...	06:15
Hobbsee	Yagisan: hehe. no, i will. just not sure at what time yet.	06:15
Yagisan	Hobbsee: how have you been ? I've had some problems with my eyes recently :(	06:16
Hobbsee	Yagisan: i'm okay :) been doing lots of merging, etc, i go for MOTU on wednesday	06:17
Hobbsee	any MOTU's around to approve a sync request?	06:17
Hobbsee	https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/camorama/+bug/53153	06:17
Ubugtu	Malone bug 53153 in camorama "[Edgy MoM] Please sync camorama 0.17-5 from Debian Sid" [Untriaged,Confirmed]	06:17
=== Hobbsee subscribes the archive anyway.
Yagisan	Hobbsee: good luck on Wednesday	06:18
Hobbsee	Yagisan: thanks :)	06:18
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Hobbsee	oh good, cheops should be a sync too.	06:20
Hobbsee	anyway, i'm going to bed. night all	06:20
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Arbiter	I ask for package review - name: libgimp-cli - Uploaded to revu (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2714)	07:51
Arbiter	Package availability: Debian: No - Ubuntu: No	07:51
Arbiter	Thanks a lot	07:51
Arbiter	;)	07:51
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Arbiter	s/cli/cil	07:53
Arbiter	:)	07:53
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cypher1	finding out that building a package is not easy ;)	08:30
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zul	hey	09:40
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carthik	so how do I work to bring my favourite universe package up to date with the latest versions in Debian? Like gmailfs, armagetron etc?	10:19
crimsun	carthik: gmailfs is a merge assigned (tentatively) to bmonty	10:22
crimsun	feel free to work on it and stash a merged srcpkg somewhere so we can check and upload it	10:22
carthik	crimsun, thank you - since it is "taken" i'd rather spend my time elsewhere, I guess.	10:25
crimsun	carthik: it's not at all "taken"	10:25
crimsun	the assignment is simply "who last touched it"	10:25
crimsun	it's not at all binding	10:25
carthik	crimsun, may I ask where you found info regarding who it was assigned to tentatively?	10:26
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crimsun	carthik: http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html	10:27
carthik	crimsun, I'm sorry but the report page sounds confusing ( http://merges.ubuntu.com/g/gmailfs/REPORT )	10:31
crimsun	carthik: what do you find confusing about it?	10:31
carthik	crimsun, where I can download the gmailfs_0.7.1-6ubuntu1.src.tar.gz package mentioned there to manually check the conflicts?	10:32
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crimsun	carthik: you probably want to read http://merges.ubuntu.com/	10:33
carthik	crimsun, sorry I just did - I see that grab-merge.sh might help. Thanks.	10:33
crimsun	(note that gmailfs can be synced)	10:35
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carthik	crimsun, and how did you learn that? was it by looking at the src ?	10:37
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LaserJock	crimsun: is packages.qa.debian.org working for you?	10:40
crimsun	LaserJock: no	10:40
crimsun	carthik: yes, I compared the Ubuntu delta with the current Debian source package	10:40
carthik	thanks, crimsun. I'm still very confused with the process, but will experiment a little and learn. For gmailfs - I suppose you'd just do a sync, or do i need to file a bug requesting a sync?	10:41
crimsun	carthik: you may file a bug against the gmailfs source package saying it's ok to override Ubuntu changes. Then let a MOTU know the URL so he can sign off on it	10:46
LaserJock	yep	10:47
carthik	crimsun, so is there a recommended place for me to upload the src package to?	10:47
crimsun	carthik: you don't need to upload anything for a sync request	10:48
imbrandon	crimsun, whats the protocal request http://merges.ubuntu.com/h/helix-player/REPORT is just synced	10:48
crimsun	imbrandon: file a bug against the helix-player source package saying it's ok to override Ubuntu changes, and let a MOTU know the URL so he can sign off on it	10:48
imbrandon	k	10:48
LaserJock	hmm, maybe that might be a good bot item to add	10:50
imbrandon	LaserJock, probable	10:50
imbrandon	hrm crimsun it looks like helix ftbs since pre-dapper though ;(	10:50
imbrandon	not good	10:50
crimsun	it will ftbfs on at least a couple arches	10:51
carthik	crimsun, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gmailfs/+bug/53177 - what could I do to make it better - should I subscribe any team to it?	10:51
Ubugtu	Malone bug 53177 in gmailfs "Please sync gmailfs" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]	10:51
crimsun	carthik: yes, normally you would subscribe the 'ubuntu-archive' team	10:51
imbrandon	crimsun, it looks like on dapper and edgy ALL arches ftbs ( no binarys except in breezy )	10:51
crimsun	carthik: but we request that you don't do that, since a MOTU will do that	10:52
LaserJock	carthik: also it is generally good to put what ever specifically to sync	10:52
LaserJock	umm	10:52
LaserJock	what version specifically to sync	10:52
carthik	whoops - I just did that... crimsun. Sorry.	10:52
imbrandon	crimsun, can you poke the url and make sure i'm reading this right that there has never been a binary in dapper or edgy that builds ( https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+search?text=helix-player )	10:53
crimsun	carthik: yes, we request that you don't subscribe u-a because of possible adjustments, which will spam u-a	10:53
carthik	LaserJock, thanks, I changed the description to include the version number	10:53
carthik	crimsun, I'm sorry, I subscribed u-a before I could read you saying I shouldn't - won't happen again.	10:54
crimsun	bug 53177	10:54
Ubugtu	Malone bug 53177 in gmailfs "Please sync gmailfs 0.7.1-6 from Debian Sid" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/53177	10:54
carthik	Thanks, crimsun :)	10:55
crimsun	imbrandon: the ubuntu delta caused a ftbfs, yes	10:57
crimsun	imbrandon: however, 1.0.6-3 is available	10:57
imbrandon	k	10:57
imbrandon	1.0.7-1 is avail in sid	10:58
crimsun	right, so file a sync request	10:59
imbrandon	doing so now	10:59
crimsun	remember /not/ to subscribe ubuntu-archive	10:59
tseng	crimsun: not?	10:59
imbrandon	tseng, not till a motu checks it	10:59
tseng	oh.	10:59
crimsun	tseng: right, the MOTU should do that when he signs off on it to avoid spamming u-a if any changes like above have to be made	11:00
tseng	ok.	11:00
tseng	I dont even know who is a motu anymore	11:00
tseng	and who is just a sponsored upload	11:00
bluefoxicy	I think I'm a sponsored upload or something	11:01
bluefoxicy	they made me click some sign up button	11:01
imbrandon	tseng, i'm still a hopefull for a bit longer , hopefully i'll feel confident enough in the next ~30 days to go up to the TB for motu	11:01
bluefoxicy	I didn't really pay much attention	11:01
imbrandon	crimsun, bug 53178	11:01
Ubugtu	Malone bug 53178 in helix-player "please sync 1.0.7-1 from debian sid" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/53178	11:01
LaserJock	tseng: http://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev :)	11:02
tseng	LaserJock: not terribly concerned about it	11:02
crimsun	imbrandon: done.	11:02
bluefoxicy	tseng: btw ubuntu seems to be doing --no-execstack now with gcrypt, you can close #49192	11:02
imbrandon	crimsun, thanks	11:02
tseng	LaserJock: ill assume the tb doesnt randomly approve people	11:02
tseng	bluefoxicy: you cant?	11:03
LaserJock	tseng: well, that's a different thing altogether ;-)	11:03
crimsun	more coffee.	11:03
bluefoxicy	tseng: should I close it "fix released" for just a fix released on edgy though? I don't know if Dapper has added the flag	11:03
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tseng	dapper is done.	11:03
tseng	closed	11:04
bluefoxicy	it's a matter of debian/rules, not patching or upgrading. That doesn't fall into -updates?	11:04
tseng	does it really need to?	11:05
bluefoxicy	It's not my distro.	11:05
tseng	this is pretty niche stuff seeing as we dont have a pax kernel	11:05
bluefoxicy	But fixing it gets an executable stack off some 13 things	11:05
bluefoxicy	well, gaim will have an executable stack on amd64 with gcrypt having an executable stack.	11:05
tseng	see	11:05
tseng	it is your distro, and you could take the effort to fix something	11:05
tseng	or close your own bug	11:05
tseng	instead of just whining	11:06
tseng	its kid stuff to add a configure flag to a source package and ask for it to be reviewed for -updates	11:06
tseng	i would ACK it, but i wont do the work	11:07
bluefoxicy	tseng: nods. How would I go about doing that?	11:07
tseng	grab the source package in dapper	11:08
tseng	apply your change, build a new source package	11:08
tseng	and make a debdiff	11:08
bluefoxicy	make a debdiff?	11:08
tseng	debdiff foo.dsc bar.dsc	11:08
bluefoxicy	alright.	11:09
bluefoxicy	tseng: I did mention this was already fixed in edgy right?	11:09
tseng	yes.	11:09
tseng	is it exactly the same version and revision?	11:09
tseng	well, one rev off	11:09
tseng	doubt it.	11:09
bluefoxicy	libgcrypt11-1.2.2?	11:09
tseng	1.2.2-1 in dapper	11:10
tseng	-2 in edgy	11:10
tseng	except that there are possibly other changes	11:11
tseng	and that isnt the right versioning	11:11
tseng	it would be 1.1 or something	11:11
tseng	right so -2 is a huge diff	11:11
tseng	we need just the one change	11:11
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bluefoxicy	tseng: easy enough.	11:12
tseng	make the changelog like	11:12
tseng	libgcrypt11 1.2.2-1.1 dapper-updates	11:12
bluefoxicy	tseng: if you're interested btw take a look at bug #49192, the first comment lists everything that was running on my machine with a +X stack because of gcrypt, which will all be magically fixed.	11:13
Ubugtu	Malone bug 49192 in libgcrypt11 "libgcrypt11 has an executable stack" [Untriaged,Fix released] http://launchpad.net/bugs/49192	11:13
bluefoxicy	oh. I see you already have.	11:13
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bluefoxicy	tseng: it's just a source package so building it on edgy won't matter rightL?	11:20
tseng	right, if you get the changelog right	11:20
tseng	you should test it on dapper	11:20
bluefoxicy	uh	11:22
bluefoxicy	tseng I got this massive diff	11:22
bluefoxicy	tseng: I'm going to rebuild the source package for the original, and then for the modified one, and debdiff. That should buff out these changes-I-didn't-make	11:24
bluefoxicy	I mean what the hell one of them changed the address of the FSF	11:24
bluefoxicy	I downloaded the package on my dapper machine and scp'd it over here	11:25
LaserJock	the address of FSF changed, some packages haven't reflected that	11:26
bluefoxicy	LaserJock: no, I mean	11:26
bluefoxicy	I did an apt-source libgcrypt11; went into the source tree, added a changelog entry and a line to rules; dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot; stepped out of the source tree and debdiffed the .dsc apt-source got and teh one I just made	11:27
bluefoxicy	and came up with thousands of changes.	11:27
Laser_away	make sure you're diffing the right versions	11:28
bluefoxicy	i gotta go for a bit, be back later	11:28
bluefoxicy	Laser_away: the directory I started with was empty, there's only two dsc's here, the one apt got and teh one I made out of it	11:29
Laser_away	odd	11:29
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shawarma	Hmm.. I'm just getting started on these merges.. If I find a package that was merged just fine, all I need to do is change the Merge-O-Matic thing in the changelog to my name and e-mail, no?	12:05
tseng	you dont need to change it if you didnt change anything	12:05
tseng	only if you made notable changes	12:05
shawarma	tseng: Really? Has this always been the case?	12:06
tseng	yes.	12:06
shawarma	I'm ALMOST sure someone told me to put my own name there instead of MoM back in the breezy days.	12:06
tseng	you can change it if you like but there is no reason	12:06
shawarma	I think the rationale was that that way it was clear that it had been reviewed (and by whom) and that it wasn't an accidental upload of an automatic merge.	12:07

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