[12:08] i wanna make me a new version of ubuntu [12:09] seems I missed something. there is a menue entry.... in the internet tools section... [12:11] hmm, think I work a bit on my own code.... bye === shenki [n=shenki@ppp168-239.lns3.adl4.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === givre_ [n=flo@APuteaux-152-1-61-44.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:21] hey, how does someone go about starting a new version of ubuntu? I mean, someone had to put together edubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu, so there has to be a method to this madness. [12:27] more like lots of madness to the method ;-) [12:27] fowlduck: you want to like customize the .isos? [12:28] LaserJock, more than that, I want to customize what is installed during the install [12:30] there are some wiki pages, but I don't know how far they go [12:31] not far at all [12:31] and they're for breezy [12:31] how did the other people go about it? there is such a barrier [12:34] what do you mean by other people? [12:34] fowlduck: define a meta-package that Depends on a bunch of stuff [12:35] LaserJock, as in those that started Xubuntu, Edubuntu, Kubuntu [12:35] fowlduck: they installed a bunch of packages and defined a meta-package that depended on them [12:35] fowlduck: those projects use the Ubuntu infrastructure [12:36] LaserJock, ok, so how would I go about getting access to this? Or becoming an official project? [12:36] sladen, but the installer [12:36] fowlduck: start by defining a meta-package, get it sponsored into universe [12:36] fowlduck: not sure, get the Technica Board or Mark to ok it perhaps [12:36] fowlduck: the core-infrastructure is all the same [12:36] sladen, hmmm, i'll have to get some more packages put into it [12:37] fowlduck: what packages? [12:37] meta-packages are by far easier to do [12:37] like pyflag [12:37] foremost [12:37] scalpel [12:37] mac-robber [12:37] are those in Debian? [12:37] nope [12:37] ideally, the first step is to get them into Debian [12:37] fowlduck: what kind of project are you trying to make? [12:37] i had to package them myself for a program I wrote to customize ubuntu for computer forensics [12:37] okay, so they're already packaged? [12:37] LaserJock, computer forensics ubuntu [12:37] oh yeah, I thought I'd heard of pyflag [12:38] sladen, yes, I packaged them [12:38] in that case, look at getting them uploaded to revu [12:38] I thought there was already a derivative thing for that [12:38] LaserJock, I was the guy bothering you about packaging it this past spring break [12:38] oh, ok [12:38] now I get it [12:38] :-) [12:38] and then getting them sponsored by one of the MOTU into universe [12:38] still the same guy :) [12:38] I need to repackage them with a GPG key that I stick with [12:38] and apply for MOTU at the same time so that you get upload priviligies [12:39] fowlduck: *grin*, so you did manage to get them packaged! :) [12:39] LaserJock: rock! See, it's worth helping people, they might come back a few months later with nicely packaged stuff :) [12:40] yep [12:40] fowlduck: the "offical" derivatives have to have their packages in Main [12:41] your best bet is to get your packages in Universe and make a meta-package [12:41] LaserJock, how do you mean? I'mnot new to packaging but I am to REVU [12:41] oh, ok [12:41] but there is an issue [12:42] see, to be forensically sound, automounting has to be turned off, all forms of it [12:42] and that interferes with the settings of others [12:42] once they are in the repos then it's possible to make a LiveCD with your tailored packages [12:42] yep [12:42] I'm not exactly sure the best way to get around that [12:43] LaserJock, and how to make the installer customized? one thing at a time? [12:43] just get all this in so it's less of a leap? [12:43] from what level, though? In GNOME? Because there's no "automounting" at the cli or in X Window System. [12:43] right [12:43] I was thinking you'd go with a different WM [12:43] crimsun, the lowest possible [12:44] naw, the current is fine [12:44] "the lowest possible"? [12:44] crimsun, the lowest possible level of automounting [12:44] crimsun, I can screw with gconf and gvm [12:44] that's just two gconf settings. [12:44] crimsun, but if there is something lower it can cause tampering with evidence [12:45] which makes it not forensically sound [12:45] fowlduck: all automounting is done by g-v-m [12:45] which makes it all but useless [12:45] crimsun, ahhhh, ok thanks [12:45] there's nothing lower (we don't include any kernel patches) in our default config [12:46] ok, great [12:46] ok, so install ubuntu and get packaging on here :) [12:46] up until now I've been doing it in a VM === shenki [n=shenki@ppp168-239.lns3.adl4.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:46] hehe === theCore_ [n=ubuntu@modemcable103.216-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:47] thanks for your help, I'll be back later ( crimsun and LaserJock ) [12:48] ok, cya [12:48] oh, one more thing, packages should not install into /usr/local [12:48] right? [12:48] right [12:48] ok, so where then? /usr? [12:48] yes [12:48] /usr/program/? [12:48] --prefix=/usr [12:49] crimsun, two of those don't use a configure [12:49] that's fine, you can move them [12:49] ok, so let them install there then use the rules file to move them? [12:49] /usr/local/ is reserved for local admin [12:49] no, modify their Makefiles to accept DESTDIR [12:49] ok [12:50] then use rules to specify the destdir [12:50] yes. [12:50] in the make [12:50] ok, thanks [12:50] and politely ask upstream to adjust for DESTIDIR ;-) [12:51] oh, and if a program only has one config file, should it only be in /etc? I shouldn't make another directory under /etc to hold it? ex: /etc/program/program.conf [12:51] LaserJock, oh, ok [12:51] LaserJock, although it may be in /usr/local for a reason, as these tools should probably only be run by root...I think [12:52] no, /usr/local/ on Debian systems is unconditionally not to be mucked with [12:52] that has nothing to do with /usr/local [12:52] oh, ok [12:52] thanks [12:52] /usr/sbin/ might be the place then, not sure though [12:53] kk [12:53] and I would say that /etc/somedir/ is cleaner [12:53] even if it is just that one file [12:53] crimsun, I would think so, but I'd like to do it a standard way [12:54] crimsun, whats worse is one wants to install its' config file in /usr/local/etc [12:54] Makefile hacking. [12:54] you actually have to modify the source to change it too [12:54] i wish it was just the makefile [12:54] and I guess we're not supposed to modify the source too [12:55] that's what patches are for [12:56] hmm, so how does one make patches? (like a diff?) [12:56] i mean, you can just point me to a program to do it or a link and i'll figure it out, i've already pestered you guys enough [12:57] something based on diff(1), yes [12:57] boy, this really is "point out deficencies in the packaging guide" day :-) [12:57] hehe [12:58] it's all for the greater good [12:58] think of it as "improving the packaging guide" day :) [12:59] well, that needs more than a day [12:59] :-) [12:59] bit by bit, piece by piece [12:59] so, what program can be used for patching? [12:59] I'd like to get to this packaging [01:00] ::::) (<==A spider smiling) [01:01] patch(1) [01:01] ok, thanks [01:01] to generate a unified diff, use something based on diff(1) [01:01] unified diff? [01:01] it's a particular diff format [01:02] ok [01:02] which is what I need to submit this package or something? [01:02] i'm confused [01:03] hi [01:03] diff(1) is used to generate a line-by-line summary of differences between file{,s} [01:03] you can apply a file generated by diff(1) using patch(1) === sladen [i=paul@starsky.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Riddell [i=jr@muse.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:04] ok, so use diff to make the patch, how does this affect the packaging? === sivang [i=sivan@muse.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:05] you can include a patch to the source in your packaging === geser [n=michael@85.25.110.118] has left #ubuntu-motu [] [01:06] is there an official way to do this? === fowlduck busts out the packaging guide [01:07] i need to buy that [01:07] https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-updating.html [01:07] ^^ has a bit of info on dpatch [01:07] ok thanks [01:08] you guys are always so helpful crimsun, and LaserJock [01:08] crimsun: btw, I talked to doko about python-central et. al. in B-D-I [01:08] fowlduck: np [01:08] thanks thanks, double-thanks [01:08] LaserJock: great. What was the resolution? [01:09] so talk to you guys later [01:09] crimsun: basically, put stuff you need for clean in B-D and the rest in B-D-I [01:09] fowlduck: cya [01:09] LaserJock: ok, that's what I thought === TheOnlyToadstool [n=jcorbier@famille-corbier.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === sladen_ [i=paul@starsky.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Riddell_ [i=jr@muse.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === givre [n=flo@APuteaux-152-1-61-44.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-motu === givre [n=flo@APuteaux-152-1-61-44.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-motu === sander [n=sander@a82-92-145-91.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:57] Hello, does anyone here know how packages are added to edgy? rationale: gnome-hearts hit debian/unstable a few days ago and I like to see it in edgy and backport it to dapper [01:58] sander: I don't think we are automatically grabing packages still [01:58] so we would need to either request as sync if it builds fine on edgy or manually merge it [01:58] backporting can be done once it's in edgy [01:59] pbuilder works fine on Ubuntu so a sync should work. Where do I request a sync? [01:59] it'll be synced in automatically. [02:00] it entered on the fifth of July, which was prior to UVF [02:00] just be patient [02:00] the buildds have days worth of building to do [02:00] still? I thought only packeges that were synced on edgy creation were auto-synced, not new packages after the big debian snapshot [02:01] they have a script which tells them about new packages since they last synced [02:01] universe freeze isn't until late Sept [02:01] there's plenty of time remaining for sync [02:01] s [02:01] I assumed they wouldn't be automatic after UVF [02:02] they're not, but this date falls prior to UVF [02:02] When is UVF then? [02:03] it was the thirteenth [02:03] hmmm.... [02:04] gnome-hearts was uploaded the 5th. I should be okay then [02:04] keep in mind virtually nothing was buildable the past couple days. [02:05] and how about the edgy/main repository? What is the procedure for getting packages in there? Or is that selection already frozen? [02:05] UVF is already passed. [02:06] past. [02:06] crimsun: are you sure it got in? [02:06] LaserJock: no, but it doesn't matter [02:06] crimsun: I can't find it anywhere [02:06] it would be synced into universe, not into main [02:06] right, but are you sure we are still autosyncing? [02:07] no, we're not afaik [02:07] so wouldn't someone have to manually request a sync? or perhaps we just have to wait for Keybuck [02:07] I can't imagine we won't sync again at least once more [02:07] yeah [02:08] you can request a sync into, sure, but I'm pretty sure it'll be redundant. [02:08] In case it doesn't appear in a couple of days, how can I request a sync? [02:09] file a bug against gnome-hearts, subscribe (don't assign to) ubuntu-archive [02:09] he can't file a bug against gnome-hearts [02:09] right, which is why it's pointless [02:10] but I think people have been just filing against ubuntu in those cases [02:10] wait, and you want to backport this into dapper-backports? [02:10] we're not allowed to introduce new packages [02:11] yeah, but that's extra. First I want Edgy sorted. Dapper is bonus :-) [02:11] dapper-backports is not valid in this case [02:11] edgy will be fine, since it can be synced in anytime between now and Sept 28th [02:13] Good, thanks. And after that I could request a backport for dapper? Which would go in dapper/universe or dapper/backports? [02:14] you can't request it into dapper. [02:14] that's what I was trying to explain. [02:14] gnome-hearts didn't exist in dapper when dapper was released, so it'd be a new package [02:14] we can't backport new packages [02:15] Ah, so backports only has edgy versions of dapper packages, right? [02:15] right. === redguy_ [n=mati@ads228.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:16] Thanks. One more question if you don't mind: how is the edgy/main selected? Or was that done too at UVF? [02:17] what do you mean by "selected"? [02:18] Well, you guys select a subset of the debian repros for the edgy/main repro. The rest goes in edgy/universe or multiverse. [02:18] Or did I misunderstand? [02:18] slightly [02:18] ah.... [02:18] main and restricted are supported; all other components aren't [02:19] so if something's in main, it has to have a darned good reason to be there [02:19] i.e., random new Debian package doesn't end up in main [02:19] it has to be a requirement/dependency of another main package [02:19] and even then it's not guaranteed === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:20] I understand. I saw talk of revising the list of games for edgy, hence my question [02:21] well it's a shoe-in for universe, but promoting it to main is much more difficult [02:21] That's what I thought. And I can't find documentation about that process (if there is a process to begin with) [02:22] you have to write a Main inclusion report [02:22] yes, it's called promotion, and it's recorded via anastacia [02:22] right, you need to write up a "MIR" [02:23] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportBeecrypt for an example [02:24] canonical instructions: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionRequirements [02:25] Thanks for that. Much reading to do :-) [02:27] What's the best place to see when my package gets synced into edgy? Currently I simply browse archive.ubuntu.com but I have a feeling there's a better place for that [02:28] sander: hmm, there is the edgy-changes mailing list [02:28] I think there is also an RSS feed somewhere [02:30] Found it. Thanks for the help. You too crimsun === redguy [n=mati@aco195.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Fujitsu [n=Fujitsu@c211-28-178-169.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu === redguy [n=mati@aco195.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:07] Does anyone here have an amd64 box? [03:08] I'll be coming into possession of such a thing within a few days, but there's a few things I don't quite understand. === polpak [n=polpak@ip68-6-43-90.sb.sd.cox.net] has left #ubuntu-motu ["Outta] [03:08] shawarma, I have experience with a couple. [03:08] shawarma, what do you wish to know? [03:09] Fujitsu: I'm just a little confused about the i386 compatibility thing.. Does it actually run stuff compiled for i386? [03:09] shawarma, if you install the i386 version, yes. [03:09] I'll be installing the amd64 version of course. [03:09] Ah. [03:09] You'll need a 32-bit chroot then, to run 32-bit apps. [03:09] simple answer: you cant run 32-bit apps on 64-bit ubuntu [03:10] But a chroot will do? [03:10] I'm not into simple answers. :-) [03:10] linux32 chroot myubuntu32chroot/ [03:10] works for simple things [03:10] chroot gets complicated for running services or X etc [03:11] Because of chroot or because of amd64 vs. i386 stuff? [03:11] because of chroot [03:11] Ok. I can handle that. [03:11] So the reason I need the chroot is to make the dynamic linker happy more easily? [03:12] er [03:12] not really. [03:12] there are very few 32 bit libs in 64-bit ubuntu [03:12] I recently came into contact with a amd64 box running redhat. It had a bunch of i386 libs installed too.. What purpose would they serve? [03:12] tseng: Yes, I'd imagine. [03:13] we have linux 32 libs for amd64 also [03:13] What I meant was: In a chroot, the linker won't see anything but i386 stuff and as such will not try to link things compiled for different archs. [03:13] nothing sees anything outside the chroot [03:14] its totally contained [03:14] Or is that handled by some other mechanism? [03:14] tseng: Yes, yes. I know. [03:14] if you want to think of it in terms of the linker, fine. [03:14] Well... I suppose I'm looking for an answer to: "Why is the chroot needed?" [03:14] its a complete set of libs, linker, compiler, apps [03:14] for 32 bit [03:15] a full system (minus kernel) [03:15] Yes, but the chroot only pertains to filesystems. It's still using the same kernel. [03:15] you run linux32 chroot mydir/ [03:15] and the apps think you are using a 32 bit kernel [03:15] the kernel can handle running 32 bit code [03:15] Ah... I see. [03:15] and so can the cpu [03:15] it is just a limitation in our 64 bit userland [03:16] we dont have something called multilib [03:16] look it up if you are really interested [03:17] Look up "multilib"? [03:17] sure. [03:17] I will.. === nexu [n=nexu@a80-126-56-145.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:17] I think I understand now. [03:17] cool === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:18] So i can just create a pbuilder for amd64 and one for i386 and not have to worry about cross compiling, qemu's or whatever? That's pretty neat. [03:18] yeah it is [03:18] morning all [03:19] The dynamic linker confusion comes from the infamous redhat system I saw. It had both a lib64 and a lib dir so the two architectures' libs coexisted in the same filesystem. I just imagined it'd cause linker weirdness all the time. [03:20] On an Ubuntu amd64, is it also called /usr/lib64 or still just /usr/lib ? [03:21] Silly me. I actually have access to an amd64 system right now.. I'll just snoop around on that one. [03:21] tseng: Thanks a lot for your help! [03:21] np === heretician [n=heretici@69-162-118-5.clvdoh.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:24] Hmm... On a standard Ubuntu amd64, the /usr/lib32 wouldn't be needed, right? [03:25] I'm just wondering why it's present on this system.. It's a plain vanilla webserver. === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118] has joined #ubuntu-motu === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:33] shawarma: openoffice will need it [03:34] and the directory will probably be made along with the bootstrapping [03:35] Riddell: Why would openoffice need it? [03:35] Riddell: Has it not been properly ported to amd64? [03:35] Riddell: I remember something about it actually having some assembler code in it to do some introspection stuff.. That might not be very easily ported.. [03:36] Riddell: But yes, the directory might be created during the bootstrapping. [03:37] no, it's not been ported to amd64 except by fedora [03:38] Really? something we can't steal? [03:39] Riddell: You're in roughly the same timezone as I am... What's your excuse for being up this late? [03:39] noisy neighbours [03:40] ah. the average age of my neighbours is around 75.. They're very quiet this time of night. :-) === carthik [n=carthik@147.168.119.70.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === thierryn [n=thierry@modemcable251.69-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c1-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:49] Oh, well. It's almost 4 am. I'm off to bed. [03:49] g'night guys! [03:49] ..and Hobbsee. :-) === DarkMageZ [n=DarkMage@59.167.27.251] has joined #ubuntu-motu === heretician_ [n=heretici@69-162-118-5.clvdoh.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Bazzi_ [n=Bastian@p508019DC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu === fowlduck [n=duck@68-190-90-101.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:13] hallo again === carthik [n=carthik@user-142h0oa.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === heretician [n=heretici@69-162-118-5.clvdoh.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:17] heretician: working on it :-) [05:23] Laser_away: help me..im retarded [05:24] lol [05:24] i uploaded to 'revu' last night right...and now im trying to logon by doing the "request password" deal [05:24] i do it right..and it tells me to type in the decrypt line, and past the text below...there is no text below [05:24] wth is wrong with me? [05:25] as i am sure it isn't anything else but stoooooopid ol' me [05:25] no, I think it could be a problem [05:25] you uploaded ok? [05:25] yes [05:25] a few packages [05:25] you package is on REVU? [05:25] 1 good 2 bad i thik [05:25] i don't see it yet [05:25] almost 24 hours since i up'd it [05:26] ok, but one worked anyway [05:26] Laser_away: Cool hehe [05:26] on..all worked [05:26] im saying the packages were 1 good 2 bad [05:26] heh [05:26] or 1 good, 1 almost there, and 1 bad [05:27] ok, so did you make sure to use the same email address as is in the changelog of your packages [05:28] Should I be getting EasyUbuntu: For Developers: Bleeding Edge? [05:28] no [05:30] yup [05:31] email address is correct [05:31] are you in the ubuntu-universe-contributors LP team [05:31] yup [05:32] hmm :( [05:32] hehe exactly [05:32] I don't know why it wouldn't work [05:32] im sure crimsun will come along and go oh, you do this little thing here which is right in front of your face [05:32] i gotta eat something [05:32] brb [05:32] no, actually it's the same thing I ran into some time gao [05:32] ago^ [05:32] ahh [05:33] speak of the devil [05:33] you need an admin to reset your pass === fowlduck [n=duck@68-190-90-101.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:33] roger that..and one of the 4 or 5 admins listed on the REVU wiki [05:33] aj, \sh and such [05:33] just email admin at tiber.tauware.de [05:34] thx Laser_away [05:34] i will do that [05:34] bbiaf === fowlduck [n=duck@68-190-90-101.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:42] The wiki doesn't actually say how to get started in the whole Ubuntu packaging business... Any pointers? [05:42] help.ubuntu.com [05:42] click on go to the Packaging Guide [05:43] Well, I know how to package... [05:43] bah, that was a messed up sentence [05:43] I mean, how to do something useful. [05:43] I have a fair amount of experience with debhelper... [05:43] well, you can fix bugs or work on the Universe merge [05:44] yeah, why doesn't the PG give me a pony? huh? HUH? [05:44] shesh, sorry [05:44] maybe I'll throw in an ASCII art pony just for you crimsun [05:44] Oh, I assumed only proper MOTUs were working on the merge.... [05:44] Hahahha. [05:44] Good idea. [05:45] hi [05:45] everyone [05:45] Fujitsu: the general rule is, anything a MOTU can do you can do as well, you just need a MOTU to sponsor it [05:45] Ah. OK. [05:45] anyone seen Ming Hua lately? [05:45] that's how you become a MOTU in the first place [05:45] crimsun: no, unfortunately :( [05:45] those merges are sitting there [05:46] Laser_away, aha. That's what I thought. [05:46] wow, I've got a lot more that list than I remember [05:46] all of like 5 packages [05:47] although I don't really want to claim tightvnc [05:47] you love that included XFree86 source, really, you do. [05:47] noooooo [05:47] X must be the most lovely package to maintain. [05:48] 390 new merges... That's quite a few remaining. [05:48] yep === Fujitsu looks for a good package to start with that doesn't have too many Ubuntu-specific changes. [05:49] Fujitsu: the Packaging Guide does have a section on merging ;-) [05:49] Laser_away, I noticed :) [05:49] and you left #ubuntu-science, don't you like us any more ;-) [05:49] No, I had too many channels. [05:50] I joined #ubuntu-motu-school instead. [05:50] Stupid 20 channel limit. [05:50] probably not as many as crimsun [05:50] I have to switch between a few. [05:50] doh, I'm going to need to add -school back in too [05:50] Any ideas on why that limit is in place? [05:50] I wasn't aware of a limit [05:51] So, should I just pick a package? [05:51] Laser_away, there's a limit of 20 channels. [05:51] though I never go much beyond 10-15 myself [05:51] And I have been hitting it for months. [05:51] Fujitsu: yeah, look for one where the diffs aren't huge [05:51]