[12:08] <fowlduck> i wanna make me a new version of ubuntu
[12:09] <danny> seems I missed something. there is a menue entry.... in the internet tools section...
[12:11] <danny> hmm, think I work a bit on my own code.... bye
[12:21] <fowlduck> hey, how does someone go about starting a new version of ubuntu?  I mean, someone had to put together edubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu, so there has to be a method to this madness.
[12:27] <LaserJock> more like lots of madness to the method ;-)
[12:27] <LaserJock> fowlduck: you want to like customize the .isos?
[12:28] <fowlduck> LaserJock, more than that, I want to customize what is installed during the install
[12:30] <LaserJock> there are some wiki pages, but I don't know how far they go
[12:31] <fowlduck> not far at all
[12:31] <fowlduck> and they're for breezy
[12:31] <fowlduck> how did the other people go about it?  there is such a barrier
[12:34] <LaserJock> what do you mean by other people?
[12:34] <sladen> fowlduck: define a meta-package that Depends on a bunch of stuff
[12:35] <fowlduck> LaserJock, as in those that started Xubuntu, Edubuntu, Kubuntu
[12:35] <sladen> fowlduck: they installed a bunch of packages and defined a meta-package that depended on them
[12:35] <LaserJock> fowlduck: those projects use the Ubuntu infrastructure
[12:36] <fowlduck> LaserJock, ok, so how would I go about getting access to this?  Or becoming an official project?
[12:36] <fowlduck> sladen, but the installer
[12:36] <sladen> fowlduck: start by defining a meta-package, get it sponsored into universe
[12:36] <LaserJock> fowlduck: not sure, get the Technica Board or Mark to ok it perhaps
[12:36] <sladen> fowlduck: the core-infrastructure is all the same
[12:36] <fowlduck> sladen, hmmm, i'll have to get some more packages put into it
[12:37] <sladen> fowlduck: what packages?
[12:37] <LaserJock> meta-packages are by far easier to do
[12:37] <fowlduck> like pyflag
[12:37] <fowlduck> foremost
[12:37] <fowlduck> scalpel
[12:37] <fowlduck> mac-robber
[12:37] <sladen> are those in Debian?
[12:37] <fowlduck> nope
[12:37] <sladen> ideally, the first step is to get them into Debian
[12:37] <LaserJock> fowlduck: what kind of project are you trying to make?
[12:37] <fowlduck> i had to package them myself for a program I wrote to customize ubuntu for computer forensics
[12:37] <sladen> okay, so they're already packaged?
[12:37] <fowlduck> LaserJock, computer forensics ubuntu
[12:37] <LaserJock> oh yeah, I thought I'd heard of pyflag
[12:38] <fowlduck> sladen, yes, I packaged them
[12:38] <sladen> in that case, look at getting them uploaded to  revu
[12:38] <LaserJock> I thought there was already a derivative thing for that
[12:38] <fowlduck> LaserJock, I was the guy bothering you about packaging it this past spring break
[12:38] <LaserJock> oh, ok
[12:38] <LaserJock> now I get it
[12:38] <LaserJock> :-)
[12:38] <sladen> and then getting them sponsored by one of the MOTU into universe
[12:38] <fowlduck> still the same guy :)
[12:38] <fowlduck> I need to repackage them with a GPG key that I stick with
[12:38] <sladen> and apply for MOTU at the same time so that you get upload priviligies
[12:39] <sladen> fowlduck: *grin*, so you did manage to get them packaged! :)
[12:39] <sladen> LaserJock: rock!  See, it's worth helping people, they might come back a few months later with nicely packaged stuff :)
[12:40] <LaserJock> yep
[12:40] <LaserJock> fowlduck: the "offical" derivatives have to have their packages in Main
[12:41] <LaserJock> your best bet is to get your packages in Universe and make a meta-package
[12:41] <fowlduck> LaserJock, how do you mean?  I'mnot new to packaging but I am to REVU
[12:41] <fowlduck> oh, ok
[12:41] <fowlduck> but there is an issue
[12:42] <fowlduck> see, to be forensically sound, automounting has to be turned off, all forms of it
[12:42] <fowlduck> and that interferes with the settings of others
[12:42] <LaserJock> once they are in the repos then it's possible to make a LiveCD with your tailored packages
[12:42] <LaserJock> yep
[12:42] <LaserJock> I'm not exactly sure the best way to get around that
[12:43] <fowlduck> LaserJock, and how to make the installer customized?  one thing at a time?
[12:43] <fowlduck> just get all this in so it's less of a leap?
[12:43] <crimsun> from what level, though? In GNOME? Because there's no "automounting" at the cli or in X Window System.
[12:43] <LaserJock> right
[12:43] <LaserJock> I was thinking you'd go with a different WM
[12:43] <fowlduck> crimsun, the lowest possible
[12:44] <fowlduck> naw, the current is fine
[12:44] <crimsun> "the lowest possible"?
[12:44] <fowlduck> crimsun, the lowest possible level of automounting
[12:44] <fowlduck> crimsun, I can screw with gconf and gvm
[12:44] <crimsun> that's just two gconf settings.
[12:44] <fowlduck> crimsun, but if there is something lower it can cause tampering with evidence
[12:45] <fowlduck> which makes it not forensically sound
[12:45] <crimsun> fowlduck: all automounting is done by g-v-m
[12:45] <fowlduck> which makes it all but useless
[12:45] <fowlduck> crimsun, ahhhh, ok thanks
[12:45] <crimsun> there's nothing lower (we don't include any kernel patches) in our default config
[12:46] <fowlduck> ok, great
[12:46] <fowlduck> ok, so install ubuntu and get packaging on here :)
[12:46] <fowlduck> up until now I've been doing it in a VM
[12:46] <fowlduck> hehe
[12:47] <fowlduck> thanks for your help, I'll be back later ( crimsun and LaserJock )
[12:48] <LaserJock> ok, cya
[12:48] <fowlduck> oh, one more thing, packages should not install into /usr/local
[12:48] <fowlduck> right?
[12:48] <LaserJock> right
[12:48] <fowlduck> ok, so where then?  /usr?
[12:48] <crimsun> yes
[12:48] <fowlduck> /usr/program/?
[12:48] <crimsun> --prefix=/usr
[12:49] <fowlduck> crimsun, two of those don't use a configure
[12:49] <crimsun> that's fine, you can move them
[12:49] <fowlduck> ok, so let them install there then use the rules file to move them?
[12:49] <crimsun> /usr/local/ is reserved for local admin
[12:49] <crimsun> no, modify their Makefiles to accept DESTDIR
[12:49] <fowlduck> ok
[12:50] <fowlduck> then use rules to specify the destdir
[12:50] <crimsun> yes.
[12:50] <fowlduck> in the make
[12:50] <fowlduck> ok, thanks
[12:50] <LaserJock> and politely ask upstream to adjust for DESTIDIR ;-)
[12:51] <fowlduck> oh, and if a program only has one config file, should it only be in /etc?  I shouldn't make another directory under /etc to hold it?  ex: /etc/program/program.conf
[12:51] <fowlduck> LaserJock, oh, ok
[12:51] <fowlduck> LaserJock, although it may be in /usr/local for a reason, as these tools should probably only be run by root...I think
[12:52] <crimsun> no, /usr/local/ on Debian systems is unconditionally not to be mucked with
[12:52] <LaserJock> that has nothing to do with /usr/local
[12:52] <fowlduck> oh, ok
[12:52] <fowlduck> thanks
[12:52] <LaserJock>  /usr/sbin/ might be the place then, not sure though
[12:53] <fowlduck> kk
[12:53] <crimsun> and I would say that /etc/somedir/ is cleaner
[12:53] <crimsun> even if it is just that one file
[12:53] <fowlduck> crimsun, I would think so, but I'd like to do it a standard way
[12:54] <fowlduck> crimsun, whats worse is one wants to install its' config file in /usr/local/etc
[12:54] <crimsun> Makefile hacking.
[12:54] <fowlduck> you actually have to modify the source to change it too
[12:54] <fowlduck> i wish it was just the makefile
[12:54] <fowlduck> and I guess we're not supposed to modify the source too
[12:55] <LaserJock> that's what patches are for
[12:56] <fowlduck> hmm, so how does one make patches? (like a diff?)
[12:56] <fowlduck> i mean, you can just point me to a program to do it or a link and i'll figure it out, i've already pestered you guys enough
[12:57] <crimsun> something based on diff(1), yes
[12:57] <LaserJock> boy, this really is "point out deficencies in the packaging guide" day :-)
[12:57] <fowlduck> hehe
[12:58] <fowlduck> it's all for the greater good
[12:58] <fowlduck> think of it as "improving the packaging guide" day :)
[12:59] <LaserJock> well, that needs more than a day
[12:59] <LaserJock> :-)
[12:59] <fowlduck> bit by bit, piece by piece
[12:59] <fowlduck> so, what program can be used for patching?
[12:59] <fowlduck> I'd like to get to this packaging
[01:00] <fowlduck> ::::)      (<==A spider smiling)
[01:01] <crimsun> patch(1)
[01:01] <fowlduck> ok, thanks
[01:01] <crimsun> to generate a unified diff, use something based on diff(1)
[01:01] <fowlduck> unified diff?
[01:01] <crimsun> it's a particular diff format
[01:02] <fowlduck> ok
[01:02] <fowlduck> which is what I need to submit this package or something?
[01:02] <fowlduck> i'm confused
[01:03] <fowlduck> hi
[01:03] <crimsun> diff(1) is used to generate a line-by-line summary of differences between file{,s}
[01:03] <crimsun> you can apply a file generated by diff(1) using patch(1)
[01:04] <fowlduck> ok, so use diff to make the patch, how does this affect the packaging?
[01:05] <LaserJock> you can include a patch to the source in your packaging
[01:06] <fowlduck> is there an official way to do this?
[01:07] <fowlduck> i need to buy that
[01:07] <LaserJock> https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-updating.html
[01:07] <LaserJock> ^^ has a bit of info on dpatch
[01:07] <fowlduck> ok thanks
[01:08] <fowlduck> you guys are always so helpful crimsun, and LaserJock
[01:08] <LaserJock> crimsun: btw, I talked to doko about python-central et. al. in B-D-I
[01:08] <LaserJock> fowlduck: np
[01:08] <fowlduck> thanks thanks, double-thanks
[01:08] <crimsun> LaserJock: great. What was the resolution?
[01:09] <fowlduck> so talk to you guys later
[01:09] <LaserJock> crimsun: basically, put stuff you need for clean in B-D and the rest in B-D-I
[01:09] <LaserJock> fowlduck: cya
[01:09] <crimsun> LaserJock: ok, that's what I thought
[01:57] <sander> Hello, does anyone here know how packages are added to edgy? rationale: gnome-hearts hit debian/unstable a few days ago and I like to see it in edgy and backport it to dapper
[01:58] <LaserJock> sander: I don't think we are automatically grabing packages still
[01:58] <LaserJock> so we would need to either request as sync if it builds fine on edgy or manually merge it
[01:58] <LaserJock> backporting can be done once it's in edgy
[01:59] <sander> pbuilder works fine on Ubuntu so a sync should work. Where do I request a sync?
[01:59] <crimsun> it'll be synced in automatically.
[02:00] <crimsun> it entered on the fifth of July, which was prior to UVF
[02:00] <crimsun> just be patient
[02:00] <crimsun> the buildds have days worth of building to do
[02:00] <sander> still? I thought only packeges that were synced on edgy creation were auto-synced, not new packages after the big debian snapshot
[02:01] <LaserJock> they have a script which tells them about new packages since they last synced
[02:01] <crimsun> universe freeze isn't until late Sept
[02:01] <crimsun> there's plenty of time remaining for sync
[02:01] <crimsun> s
[02:01] <LaserJock> I assumed they wouldn't be automatic after UVF
[02:02] <crimsun> they're not, but this date falls prior to UVF
[02:02] <sander> When is UVF then?
[02:03] <crimsun> it was the thirteenth
[02:03] <sander> hmmm....
[02:04] <sander> gnome-hearts was uploaded the 5th. I should be okay then
[02:04] <crimsun> keep in mind virtually nothing was buildable the past couple days.
[02:05] <sander> and how about the edgy/main repository? What is the procedure for getting packages in there? Or is that selection already frozen?
[02:05] <crimsun> UVF is already passed.
[02:06] <crimsun> past.
[02:06] <LaserJock> crimsun: are you sure it got in?
[02:06] <crimsun> LaserJock: no, but it doesn't matter
[02:06] <LaserJock> crimsun: I can't find it anywhere
[02:06] <crimsun> it would be synced into universe, not into main
[02:06] <LaserJock> right, but are you sure we are still autosyncing?
[02:07] <crimsun> no, we're not afaik
[02:07] <LaserJock> so wouldn't someone have to manually request a sync? or perhaps we just have to wait for Keybuck
[02:07] <crimsun> I can't imagine we won't sync again at least once more
[02:07] <LaserJock> yeah
[02:08] <crimsun> you can request a sync into, sure, but I'm pretty sure it'll be redundant.
[02:08] <sander> In case it doesn't appear in a couple of days, how can I request a sync?
[02:09] <crimsun> file a bug against gnome-hearts, subscribe (don't assign to) ubuntu-archive
[02:09] <LaserJock> he can't file a bug against gnome-hearts
[02:09] <crimsun> right, which is why it's pointless
[02:10] <LaserJock> but I think people have been just filing against ubuntu in those cases
[02:10] <crimsun> wait, and you want to backport this into dapper-backports?
[02:10] <crimsun> we're not allowed to introduce new packages
[02:11] <sander> yeah, but that's extra. First I want Edgy sorted. Dapper is bonus :-)
[02:11] <crimsun> dapper-backports is not valid in this case
[02:11] <crimsun> edgy will be fine, since it can be synced in anytime between now and Sept 28th
[02:13] <sander> Good, thanks. And after that I could request a backport for dapper? Which would go in dapper/universe or dapper/backports?
[02:14] <crimsun> you can't request it into dapper.
[02:14] <crimsun> that's what I was trying to explain.
[02:14] <crimsun> gnome-hearts didn't exist in dapper when dapper was released, so it'd be a new package
[02:14] <crimsun> we can't backport new packages
[02:15] <sander> Ah, so backports only has edgy versions of dapper packages, right?
[02:15] <crimsun> right.
[02:16] <sander> Thanks. One more question if you don't mind: how is the edgy/main selected? Or was that done too at UVF?
[02:17] <crimsun> what do you mean by "selected"?
[02:18] <sander> Well, you guys select a subset of the debian repros for the edgy/main repro. The rest goes in edgy/universe or multiverse.
[02:18] <sander> Or did I misunderstand?
[02:18] <crimsun> slightly
[02:18] <sander> ah....
[02:18] <crimsun> main and restricted are supported; all other components aren't
[02:19] <crimsun> so if something's in main, it has to have a darned good reason to be there
[02:19] <crimsun> i.e., random new Debian package doesn't end up in main
[02:19] <crimsun> it has to be a requirement/dependency of another main package
[02:19] <crimsun> and even then it's not guaranteed
[02:20] <sander> I understand. I saw talk of revising the list of games for edgy, hence my question
[02:21] <crimsun> well it's a shoe-in for universe, but promoting it to main is much more difficult
[02:21] <sander> That's what I thought. And I can't find documentation about that process (if there is a process to begin with)
[02:22] <LaserJock> you have to write a Main inclusion report
[02:22] <crimsun> yes, it's called promotion, and it's recorded via anastacia
[02:22] <crimsun> right, you need to write up a "MIR"
[02:23] <crimsun> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportBeecrypt  for an example
[02:24] <crimsun> canonical instructions: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionRequirements
[02:25] <sander> Thanks for that. Much reading to do :-)
[02:27] <sander> What's the best place to see when my package gets synced into edgy? Currently I simply browse archive.ubuntu.com but I have a feeling there's a better place for that
[02:28] <LaserJock> sander: hmm, there is the edgy-changes mailing list
[02:28] <LaserJock> I think there is also an RSS feed somewhere
[02:30] <sander> Found it. Thanks for the help. You too crimsun
[03:07] <shawarma> Does anyone here have an amd64 box?
[03:08] <shawarma> I'll be coming into possession of such a thing within a few days, but there's a few things I don't quite understand.
[03:08] <Fujitsu> shawarma, I have experience with a couple.
[03:08] <Fujitsu> shawarma, what do you wish to know?
[03:09] <shawarma> Fujitsu: I'm just a little confused about the i386 compatibility thing.. Does it actually run stuff compiled for i386?
[03:09] <Fujitsu> shawarma, if you install the i386 version, yes.
[03:09] <shawarma> I'll be installing the amd64 version of course.
[03:09] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[03:09] <Fujitsu> You'll need a 32-bit chroot then, to run 32-bit apps.
[03:09] <tseng> simple answer: you cant run 32-bit apps on 64-bit ubuntu
[03:10] <shawarma> But a chroot will do?
[03:10] <shawarma> I'm not into simple answers. :-)
[03:10] <tseng> linux32 chroot myubuntu32chroot/
[03:10] <tseng> works for simple things
[03:10] <tseng> chroot gets complicated for running services or X etc
[03:11] <shawarma> Because of chroot or because of amd64 vs. i386 stuff?
[03:11] <tseng> because of chroot
[03:11] <shawarma> Ok. I can handle that.
[03:11] <shawarma> So the reason I need the chroot is to make the dynamic linker happy more easily?
[03:12] <tseng> er
[03:12] <tseng> not really.
[03:12] <tseng> there are very few 32 bit libs in 64-bit ubuntu
[03:12] <shawarma> I recently came into contact with a amd64 box running redhat. It had a bunch of i386 libs installed too.. What purpose would they serve?
[03:12] <shawarma> tseng: Yes, I'd imagine.
[03:13] <tseng> we have linux 32 libs for amd64 also
[03:13] <shawarma> What I meant was: In a chroot, the linker won't see anything but i386 stuff and as such will not try to link things compiled for different archs.
[03:13] <tseng> nothing sees anything outside the chroot
[03:14] <tseng> its totally contained
[03:14] <shawarma> Or is that handled by some other mechanism?
[03:14] <shawarma> tseng: Yes, yes. I know.
[03:14] <tseng> if you want to think of it in terms of the linker, fine.
[03:14] <shawarma> Well... I suppose I'm looking for an answer to: "Why is the chroot needed?"
[03:14] <tseng> its a complete set of libs, linker, compiler, apps
[03:14] <tseng> for 32 bit
[03:15] <tseng> a full system (minus kernel)
[03:15] <shawarma> Yes, but the chroot only pertains to filesystems. It's still using the same kernel.
[03:15] <tseng> you run linux32 chroot mydir/
[03:15] <tseng> and the apps think you are using a 32 bit kernel
[03:15] <tseng> the kernel can handle running 32 bit code
[03:15] <shawarma> Ah... I see.
[03:15] <tseng> and so can the cpu
[03:15] <tseng> it is just a limitation in our 64 bit userland
[03:16] <tseng> we dont have something called multilib
[03:16] <tseng> look it up if you are really interested
[03:17] <shawarma> Look up "multilib"?
[03:17] <tseng> sure.
[03:17] <shawarma> I will..
[03:17] <shawarma> I think I understand now.
[03:17] <tseng> cool
[03:18] <shawarma> So i can just create a pbuilder for amd64 and one for i386 and not have to worry about cross compiling, qemu's or whatever? That's pretty neat.
[03:18] <tseng> yeah it is
[03:18] <Hobbsee> morning all
[03:19] <shawarma> The dynamic linker confusion comes from the infamous redhat system I saw. It had both a lib64 and a lib dir so the two architectures' libs coexisted in the same filesystem. I just imagined it'd cause linker weirdness all the time.
[03:20] <shawarma> On an Ubuntu amd64, is it also called /usr/lib64 or still just /usr/lib ?
[03:21] <shawarma> Silly me. I actually have access to an amd64 system right now.. I'll just snoop around on that one.
[03:21] <shawarma> tseng: Thanks a lot for your help!
[03:21] <tseng> np
[03:24] <shawarma> Hmm... On a standard Ubuntu amd64, the /usr/lib32 wouldn't be needed, right?
[03:25] <shawarma> I'm just wondering why it's present on this system.. It's a plain vanilla webserver.
[03:33] <Riddell> shawarma: openoffice will need it
[03:34] <Riddell> and the directory will probably be made along with the bootstrapping
[03:35] <shawarma> Riddell: Why would openoffice need it?
[03:35] <shawarma> Riddell: Has it not been properly ported to amd64?
[03:35] <shawarma> Riddell: I remember something about it actually having some assembler code in it to do some introspection stuff.. That might not be very easily ported..
[03:36] <shawarma> Riddell: But yes, the directory might be created during the bootstrapping.
[03:37] <Riddell> no, it's not been ported to amd64 except by fedora
[03:38] <shawarma> Really? something we can't steal?
[03:39] <shawarma> Riddell: You're in roughly the same timezone as I am... What's your excuse for being up this late?
[03:39] <Riddell> noisy neighbours
[03:40] <shawarma> ah. the average age of my neighbours is around 75.. They're very quiet this time of night. :-)
[03:49] <shawarma> Oh, well. It's almost 4 am. I'm off to bed.
[03:49] <shawarma> g'night guys!
[03:49] <shawarma> ..and Hobbsee. :-)
[04:13] <fowlduck> hallo again
[05:17] <Laser_away> heretician: working on it :-)
[05:23] <nixternal> Laser_away: help me..im retarded
[05:24] <Laser_away> lol
[05:24] <nixternal> i uploaded to 'revu' last night right...and now im trying to logon by doing the "request password" deal
[05:24] <nixternal> i do it right..and it tells me to type in the decrypt line, and past the text below...there is no text below
[05:24] <nixternal> wth is wrong with me?
[05:25] <nixternal> as i am sure it isn't anything else but stoooooopid ol' me 
[05:25] <Laser_away> no, I think it could be a problem
[05:25] <Laser_away> you uploaded ok?
[05:25] <nixternal> yes
[05:25] <nixternal> a few packages
[05:25] <Laser_away> you package is on REVU?
[05:25] <nixternal> 1 good 2 bad i thik 
[05:25] <nixternal> i don't see it yet
[05:25] <nixternal> almost 24 hours since i up'd it
[05:26] <Laser_away> ok, but one worked anyway
[05:26] <heretician> Laser_away: Cool hehe
[05:26] <nixternal> on..all worked
[05:26] <nixternal> im saying the packages were 1 good 2 bad 
[05:26] <Laser_away> heh
[05:26] <nixternal> or 1 good, 1 almost there, and 1 bad
[05:27] <Laser_away> ok, so did you make sure to use the same email address as is in the changelog of your packages
[05:28] <heretician> Should I be getting EasyUbuntu: For Developers: Bleeding Edge?
[05:28] <Laser_away> no
[05:30] <nixternal> yup
[05:31] <nixternal> email address is correct
[05:31] <Laser_away> are you in the ubuntu-universe-contributors LP team
[05:31] <nixternal> yup
[05:32] <Laser_away> hmm :(
[05:32] <nixternal> hehe exactly
[05:32] <Laser_away> I don't know why it wouldn't work
[05:32] <nixternal> im sure crimsun will come along and go oh, you do this little thing here which is right in front of your face 
[05:32] <nixternal> i gotta eat something
[05:32] <nixternal> brb
[05:32] <crimsun> no, actually it's the same thing I ran into some time gao
[05:32] <crimsun> ago^
[05:32] <nixternal> ahh
[05:33] <nixternal> speak of the devil 
[05:33] <crimsun> you need an admin to reset your pass
[05:33] <nixternal> roger that..and one of the 4 or 5 admins listed on the REVU wiki
[05:33] <nixternal> aj, \sh and such
[05:33] <Laser_away> just email admin at tiber.tauware.de
[05:34] <nixternal> thx Laser_away
[05:34] <nixternal> i will do that
[05:34] <nixternal> bbiaf
[05:42] <Fujitsu> The wiki doesn't actually say how to get started in the whole Ubuntu packaging business... Any pointers?
[05:42] <Laser_away> help.ubuntu.com
[05:42] <Laser_away> click on go to the Packaging Guide
[05:43] <Fujitsu> Well, I know how to package...
[05:43] <Laser_away> bah, that was a messed up sentence
[05:43] <Fujitsu> I mean, how to do something useful.
[05:43] <Fujitsu> I have a fair amount of experience with debhelper...
[05:43] <Laser_away> well, you can fix bugs or work on the Universe merge
[05:44] <crimsun> yeah, why doesn't the PG give me a pony? huh? HUH?
[05:44] <Laser_away> shesh, sorry
[05:44] <Laser_away> maybe I'll throw in an ASCII art pony just for you crimsun
[05:44] <Fujitsu> Oh, I assumed only proper MOTUs were working on the merge....
[05:44] <Fujitsu> Hahahha.
[05:44] <Fujitsu> Good idea.
[05:45] <fowlduck> hi
[05:45] <fowlduck> everyone
[05:45] <Laser_away> Fujitsu: the general rule is, anything a MOTU can do you can do as well, you just need a MOTU to sponsor it
[05:45] <Fujitsu> Ah. OK.
[05:45] <crimsun> anyone seen Ming Hua lately?
[05:45] <Laser_away> that's how you become a MOTU in the first place
[05:45] <Laser_away> crimsun: no, unfortunately :(
[05:45] <crimsun> those merges are sitting there
[05:46] <Fujitsu> Laser_away, aha. That's what I thought.
[05:46] <Laser_away> wow, I've got a lot more that list than I remember
[05:46] <Laser_away> all of like 5 packages
[05:47] <Laser_away> although I don't really want to claim tightvnc
[05:47] <crimsun> you love that included XFree86 source, really, you do.
[05:47] <Laser_away> noooooo
[05:47] <Fujitsu> X must be the most lovely package to maintain.
[05:48] <Fujitsu> 390 new merges... That's quite a few remaining.
[05:48] <Laser_away> yep
[05:49] <Laser_away> Fujitsu: the Packaging Guide does have a section on merging ;-)
[05:49] <Fujitsu> Laser_away, I noticed :)
[05:49] <Laser_away> and you left #ubuntu-science, don't you like us any more ;-)
[05:49] <Fujitsu> No, I had too many channels.
[05:50] <Fujitsu> I joined #ubuntu-motu-school instead.
[05:50] <Fujitsu> Stupid 20 channel limit.
[05:50] <Laser_away> probably not as many as crimsun
[05:50] <Fujitsu> I have to switch between a few.
[05:50] <Laser_away> doh, I'm going to need to add -school back in too
[05:50] <Fujitsu> Any ideas on why that limit is in place?
[05:50] <Laser_away> I wasn't aware of a limit
[05:51] <Fujitsu> So, should I just pick a package?
[05:51] <Fujitsu> Laser_away, there's a limit of 20 channels.
[05:51] <Laser_away> though I never go much beyond 10-15 myself
[05:51] <Fujitsu> And I have been hitting it for months.
[05:51] <Laser_away> Fujitsu: yeah, look for one where the diffs aren't huge
[05:51] <Fujitsu> Yeah, I shall.
[05:52] <Fujitsu> I do like that easier-motuing spec. A very good idea.
[05:52] <Laser_away> we hope so
[05:52] <Laser_away> if you want any easy one space-orbit is one of mine that looks easy
[05:52] <Laser_away> ok, I really have to be away now
[05:53] <Laser_away> my "doing the finances" has turned into "hang out on irc"
[05:53] <Fujitsu> Bye.
[05:53] <Fujitsu> OK, I'll look at space-orbit.
[05:53] <Fujitsu> Thanks :D
[06:07] <fowlduck> hmm, are there any instructions on signing packages?
[06:07] <fowlduck> on how to use it with revu and whatnot?
[06:07] <crimsun> debsign(1)
[06:07] <fowlduck> ok, thanks
[06:08] <crimsun> if you use debuild, pass -k
[06:08] <crimsun> although if you only have one uid associated with your key, you won't need -k
[06:08] <Fujitsu> The Ubuntu changes for space-orbit are just dependency ones... Debian merges one change, but not the other.
[06:08] <fowlduck> I'm not sure what a UID is
[06:09] <Fujitsu> fowlduck, email address.
[06:09] <fowlduck> Fujitsu, ahh, ok
[06:10] <crimsun> Fujitsu: are you positive? According to the Ubuntu changelog there's a .desktop delta, too.
[06:10] <crimsun> oh d'oh, wrong changelog
[06:10] <Fujitsu> Yeah, there is no change.
[06:10] <Fujitsu> That was merged to Debian a little earlier.
[06:11] <crimsun> just request a sync, then tell me the bug #, and I'll Ok it
[06:11] <crimsun> sorry, let me actually look
[06:11] <Fujitsu> But there is a little difference in the dependencies. Two dependencies were changed for 1.0.1-8ubuntu1.
[06:11] <Fujitsu> Only one is back in Debian now.
[06:12] <Fujitsu> Thanks, crimsun.
[06:13] <Fujitsu> Surely the GL package dependencies in Debian are correct?
[06:13] <crimsun> no, it can't be synced. It still needs a merge.
[06:14] <Fujitsu> OK, I thought so.
[06:14] <Fujitsu> But does it really?
[06:14] <crimsun> the delta for the GL{,u} is valid.
[06:14] <Fujitsu> There are no other changes in Debian.
[06:14] <crimsun> "libglu1-mesa-dev | libglu-dev, libgl1-mesa-dev | libgl-dev"  is correct.
[06:14] <Fujitsu> So a merge will be identical except for the version,.
[06:15] <Fujitsu> But is a merge actually necessary if there are no changes?
[06:15] <crimsun> there is a change.
[06:16] <Fujitsu> The changelog and build-deps are the only things that have changed in both Ubuntu and Debian. The Debian change will just be overwritten when the Ubuntu diff is put over the top.
[06:17] <crimsun> ok, no.
[06:17] <crimsun> I was correct the first time
[06:17] <crimsun> it's syncable
[06:17] <crimsun> the reason being Debian's "xlibmesa-gl-dev, libglu1-mesa-dev" is valid for Edgy
[06:17] <Fujitsu> OK, good good.
[06:17] <Fujitsu> Thanks for checking that.
[06:19] <Fujitsu> Bug #53114
[06:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 53114 in space-orbit "Please sync 1.01-8.1 from Debian Sid" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/53114
[06:22] <crimsun> Ok'd
[06:22] <Fujitsu> Thanks.
[06:30] <Fujitsu> OK, I've done merged the Ubuntu changes for vpnc... Does the changelog want to be left alone when it says it was changed by MoM?
[06:30] <Fujitsu> *just
[06:31] <crimsun> nope, put your name and e-mail
[06:31] <Fujitsu> OK.
[06:32] <crimsun> generate the source package, stash the diff.gz+dsc somewhere, and I'll look & upload
[06:33] <Hotwheelz> Hi guys how are we doing?
[06:34] <Fujitsu> OK, I'll upload them now.
[06:35] <Fujitsu> Hi, Hotwheelz.
[06:37] <Hotwheelz> Hi, Fujitsu
[06:37] <Hotwheelz> I have a question for you
[06:37] <Fujitsu> crimsun, http://people.ubuntu-au.org/~fujitsu/vpnc_0.3.3+SVN20051028-3ubuntu1.diff.gz and http://people.ubuntu-au.org/~fujitsu/vpnc_0.3.3+SVN20051028-3ubuntu1.dsc
[06:41] <crimsun> uploaded.
[06:41] <Fujitsu> To the archive?
[06:42] <crimsun> yes.
[06:42] <Fujitsu> Thanks!
[06:43] <crimsun> np. Out for coffee, back in a bit.
[06:43] <Hotwheelz> Fujitsu brb
[06:53] <Fujitsu> crimsun, I've got another thing which is just those GL dependencies on the Ubuntu side.
[06:53] <Fujitsu> From `xlibmesa-gl-dev | libgl-dev, xlibmesa-glu-dev | libglu-dev' to `libgl1-mesa-dev | libgl-dev, libglu1-mesa-dev | libglu-dev'
[06:56] <Fujitsu> I'll be back shortly, lunch beckons.
[07:10] <crimsun> Fujitsu: xlibmesa-glu-dev is invalid for both Debian and Ubuntu
[07:11] <Fujitsu> So change it to xlibmesa-gl-dev, libglu1-mesa-dev, as was done for space-orbit?
[07:12] <crimsun> what does Debian have?
[07:12] <Fujitsu> libgl1-mesa-dev | libgl-dev, libglu1-mesa-dev | libglu-dev
[07:12] <Fujitsu> Oop.s
[07:12] <Fujitsu> No.
[07:12] <Fujitsu> xlibmesa-gl-dev | libgl-dev, xlibmesa-glu-dev | libglu-dev
[07:12] <Fujitsu> That other one was what Ubuntu has now.
[07:12] <crimsun> just add libglu1-mesa-dev as an alternate for xlibmesa-glu-dev
[07:13] <crimsun> xlibmesa-gl-dev | libgl-dev, libglu1-mesa-dev | xlibmesa-glu-dev | libglu-dev
[07:13] <crimsun> (ideally Debian needs to go libglu1-mesa-dev | libglu-dev)
[07:13] <Fujitsu> Aha. OK.
[07:14] <crimsun> very quickly, this is what's valid:
[07:14] <crimsun> for gl dev: xlibmesa-gl-dev and libgl1-mesa-dev
[07:14] <crimsun> for glu dev: libglu1-mesa-dev
[07:15] <Fujitsu> Aha, thanks.
[07:16] <fowlduck> do i actually have to meet with someone to get my gpg key signed?
[07:17] <Fujitsu> fowlduck, if you want to be really proper.
[07:17] <crimsun> so, "yes".
[07:17] <Fujitsu> I must meet with Adam Conrad or somebody...
[07:17] <fowlduck> so to submit packages i have to get it signed?
[07:18] <crimsun> to submit packages to the Ubuntu archive proper, yes, you do
[07:18] <crimsun> to submit packages to REVU, no
[07:24] <Fujitsu> crimsun, care to take a look at http://people.ubuntu-au.org/~fujitsu/trackballs_1.1.1-3ubuntu1.dsc and http://people.ubuntu-au.org/~fujitsu/trackballs_1.1.1-3ubuntu1.diff.gz?
[07:29] <crimsun> Fujitsu: actually the MoM-generated merge would have sufficed
[07:29] <Fujitsu> Would it?
[07:29] <Fujitsu> I think there was a conflict...
[07:29] <Fujitsu> Oops.
[07:29] <Fujitsu> You're right.
[07:30] <Fujitsu> But the dependencies from the Ubuntu one are wrong, I think.
[07:31] <crimsun> for which binar{y,ies}?
[07:31] <Fujitsu> Build dependencies, sorry.
[07:32] <Fujitsu> Or has MoM got some odd intelligence which allows it to correct them?
[07:32] <crimsun> which ones look suspicious to you?
[07:32] <Fujitsu> The GL ones.
[07:32] <Fujitsu> They're missing xlibmesa-gl-dev.
[07:32] <crimsun> the GL ones are fine. The merges are done based on the last Ubuntu package.
[07:33] <crimsun> "libgl1-mesa-dev | libgl-dev" works
[07:33] <crimsun> note: 01:14 < crimsun> for gl dev: xlibmesa-gl-dev and libgl1-mesa-dev
[07:33] <crimsun> that "and" should be an "or", actually
[07:34] <Fujitsu> Ah. OK.
[07:34] <crimsun> so if the B-D has either xlibmesa-gl-dev or libgl1-mesa-dev, it's fine
[07:34] <Fujitsu> Ahhh. OK.
[07:34] <Fujitsu> Well, MoM's merge is good then.
[07:34] <Fujitsu> And wininfo is syncable.
[07:35] <crimsun> right, attribute yourself, link the updated diff.gz+dsc
[07:35] <crimsun> it's good practice, btw, to pbuild these in an edgy pbuilder, too.
[07:36] <Fujitsu> OK, I haven't got an Edgy one yet, just Dapper and Breezy. I'll build one tomorrow when I get to school... There's some reasonable bandwidth there.
[07:36] <crimsun> ok
[07:36] <crimsun> (I've been going over them and pbuilding prior to upload, so you're fine for now)
[07:40] <Fujitsu> Well, I've updated the trackballs ones. They are now the MoM-generated ones.
[07:47] <crimsun> uploaded.
[07:47] <Fujitsu> Aha, thanks. And I'll file a bug about wininfo.
[07:48] <Fujitsu> A quick visit.
[07:51] <Fujitsu> crimsun, bug #53115 is the wininfo one.
[07:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 53115 in wininfo "Please sync 0.7-1.1 from Debian Sid" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/53115
[07:53] <crimsun> done.
[07:55] <Fujitsu> Thankyou!
[07:56] <Fujitsu> dclock looks OK to be synced, except for one thing. A build-dep was added in the last Ubuntu release for makedepend. That isn't in the new Debian version. I can't see why it would be necessary in Ubuntu if it isn't in Debian...
[07:57] <crimsun> well, back in the hoary/breezy days when we started the monolithic->modular split, we split out a lot of packages
[07:57] <fowlduck> are there separate webs of trust?  how can I be sure my key is signed into the proper one to submit packages to the ubuntu archives
[07:58] <crimsun> so in dapper, we have imake, but in debian sid it's now xutils-dev
[07:58] <Fujitsu> Aha.
[07:58] <Fujitsu> The Debian changelog mentions imake.
[07:58] <Fujitsu> So, sync it?
[07:58] <crimsun> lemme look
[07:58] <Fujitsu> It's the only change.
[07:59] <crimsun> well, to answer that we need to build-test
[08:00] <Fujitsu> True.
[08:00] <fowlduck> crimsun, is there a specific web of trust I need to be in?
[08:00] <crimsun> fowlduck: your key needs to be signed by someone in the strong set
[08:00] <Fujitsu> Most of them would be interconnected, fowlduck.
[08:01] <fowlduck> crimsun, and is there a way to find them?
[08:01] <crimsun> Fujitsu: yep, a sync is fine.
[08:01] <Fujitsu> crimsun, great!
[08:01] <Fujitsu> It's good getting rid of Ubuntu-specific changes...
[08:01] <crimsun> fowlduck: every member of the ubuntu-dev LP team is in the strong set, so find one closest to you geographically
[08:02] <Fujitsu> I really must organise that with infinity...
[08:02] <fowlduck> ok, so ubuntu-dev LP, can I find them on ubuntu's site or something?
[08:02] <Fujitsu> launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev
[08:02] <crimsun> fowlduck: you're not limited to just ubuntu devs, of course. Anyone in the strong set will do.
[08:02] <fowlduck> crimsun, so how do I determine this?
[08:02] <fowlduck> i mean, i'm lost here :/
[08:03] <crimsun> fowlduck: well, if you haven't gotten your key signed, you aren't in the strong set ;)
[08:03] <fowlduck> crimsun, good, so only 6.5 billion possibilities
[08:03] <crimsun> not quite
[08:03] <crimsun> find someone close to you geographically
[08:03] <crimsun> where are you located?
[08:03] <fowlduck> yes, i'm asking how to find them
[08:03] <fowlduck> Madison, WI
[08:03] <fowlduck> USA
[08:04] <Fujitsu> Bug #53116 for the sync, crimsun.
[08:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 53116 in dclock "Please sync 2.1.2-8 from Debian Sid" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/53116
[08:04] <crimsun> fowlduck: oh, there are several people closeby
[08:04] <crimsun> close by
[08:04] <fowlduck> nice! :)
[08:04] <crimsun> debian developers
[08:04] <fowlduck> ooooh
[08:04] <fowlduck> where are you looking for this?
[08:05] <crimsun> you can use any of the debian and ubuntu geographical locators in addition to biglumber.com
[08:05] <fowlduck> ok
[08:05] <fowlduck> geograpical locators?  link?
[08:06] <crimsun> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWorldWide
[08:06] <fowlduck> ok, thanks, as usual you rock
[08:09] <Fujitsu> Did I hear something about moving back to gksu rather than gksudo in Edgy?
[08:09] <crimsun> I'm not familiar w/ it, but it's possible
[08:12] <fowlduck> crimsun, i have no idea how to use that locator on debian's site...heh
[08:14] <fowlduck> ahh, i found a wisconsinite
[08:14] <fowlduck> nice
[08:17] <fowlduck> crimsun, are these ubuntu users or devs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWorldWide
[08:18] <robitaille> fowlduck,  both
[08:18] <crimsun> users
[08:18] <crimsun> some are devs
[08:18] <fowlduck> ok, so how do I know who is in the strong set?
[08:20] <crimsun> you can use virtually any keyserver. Basically enter the person's key id and choose the keyanalyze report.
[08:20] <fowlduck> i meant with the people on that list
[08:21] <fowlduck> i just found raphink's in google :)
[08:23] <crimsun> you can type their names into the keyanalyze report, too
[08:28] <fowlduck> this is frustrating, maybe i should come back tomorrow and do this
[08:30] <Fujitsu> Does CDBS' simple-patchsys just automatically apply all of the patches in debian/patches?
[08:31] <crimsun> yesyes
[08:31] <crimsun> hmm, repeat
[08:32] <Fujitsu> In that case, galculator is fine for syncing. The diff was just to fix a bug which was fixed in the next upstream version.
[08:32] <Fujitsu> How often is MoM updated?
[08:33] <crimsun> I don't think it has been updated in a couple days
[08:33] <crimsun> not sure, haven't looked more closely lately
[08:34] <Fujitsu> OK, bug #53117 is for gcalculator. The diff for the new Debian version is HUGE.
[08:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 53117 in galculator "Please sync 1.2.5.2-1 from Debian Sid" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/53117
[08:41] <Fujitsu> Hey Hobbsee!
[08:41] <Hobbsee> hi all
[08:41] <Hobbsee> hi Fujitsu :)
[08:42] <heretician> hihi
[08:42] <Hobbsee> hi heretician
[08:42] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: you need to look?  check merge-o-matic and pick something that looks interesting
[08:42] <fowlduck> grrrr
[08:42] <Fujitsu> (thanks for confirming that, crimsun)
[08:42] <Hobbsee> ogyou around?
[08:42] <heretician> Fujitsu, are you in MOTU?
[08:43] <Fujitsu> heretician, no.
[08:43] <Hobbsee> heretician: no he isnt
[08:43] <fowlduck> Hobbsee, you live near wisconsin at all?
[08:43] <heretician> Oh
[08:43] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee, I've done a few today.
[08:43] <crimsun> Hobbsee's in .au.
[08:43] <Hobbsee> fowlduck: nope, why?  i'm in australia
[08:43] <Hobbsee> Fuj
[08:43] <heretician> Welp, going back to my packaging guides
[08:43] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yay :)  did you do any of mine? :P
[08:43] <heretician> Whats a merge-o-matic?
[08:43] <fowlduck> just need to hunt someone down in the "GPG strong set"
[08:43] <fowlduck> i'm having issues
[08:43] <Fujitsu> heretician, it's INCREDIBLY useful.
[08:44] <Fujitsu> MoM is the best thing since sliced bread.
[08:44] <heretician> After you have became an experienced packager, correct?
[08:44] <raphink> heretician: there are tons of great apps to package on {KDE,GNOME}-apps.org
[08:44] <Fujitsu> heretician, not really.
[08:44] <Hobbsee> heretician: see merges.ubuntu.com - tells you what packages need to update, tries to update them, and gives you a list of stuff to fix
[08:44] <fowlduck> raphink, i'm using you as my reference for locating people in the strong set :)
[08:44] <raphink> fowlduck: ah really? lol
[08:45] <raphink> how come?
[08:45] <heretician> Hobbsee, well I don't know how to "update" packages yet, let alone fix them hehe-- so by experienced I mean at the limit of being able to troubleshoot a package
[08:45] <Hobbsee> fowlduck: you really dont need your key signed till you go for MOTU - until then, it's a good idea, but it's not mandatory
[08:45] <fowlduck> just came up randomly in a google search
[08:45] <Hobbsee> heretician: true
[08:45] <raphink> ah ok
[08:45] <fowlduck> raphink, you've signed 20, i see
[08:45] <Hobbsee> raphink: you can sign mine if we meet up one day, if you want.
[08:45] <raphink> sure Hobbsee :)
[08:45] <fowlduck> raphink, http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/henkp/henkp/pgp/pathfinder/stats/74BF771E.html
[08:45] <Hobbsee> raphink: i think i should get jdub to sign my key at some point - that could be fun :)
[08:45] <raphink> if you ever come to the French Riviera
[08:46] <heretician> Hobbsee, NP though, the last guide I am going to be reading that LaserJock gave me is extremely detailed-- so hopefully it will cover things like that
[08:46] <raphink> fowlduck: yes I know my PGP page :!)=
[08:46] <raphink> :)
[08:46] <heretician> Although thanks for the linkage, i'm adding those to my tips rtf hehe
[08:46] <Hobbsee> raphink: or we both get to the same developer conference
[08:46] <raphink> Hobbsee: that works, too
[08:46] <Hobbsee> heretician: that's true.  it does, but rather poorly.
[08:46] <Hobbsee> imo
[08:46] <raphink> although you would enjoy the coast ;)
[08:46] <raphink> I'm sure
[08:46] <Hobbsee> raphink: indeed :_
[08:46] <Hobbsee> *:)
[08:46] <Hobbsee> raphink: maybe sometime i'll get a chance.  in a week, i can get a 10 year passport :)
[08:47] <raphink> hehe great
[08:47] <fowlduck> jeeze, no one in wisconsin is in the strong set so far, at least those listed on biglumber
[08:48] <Hobbsee> fowlduck: who's in the strong set?
[08:48] <fowlduck> Hobbsee, raphink for one
[08:48] <Hobbsee> and if i got signed by a member of the strong set, does that make me in the strong set too, i wonder....
[08:48] <raphink> Hobbsee: people who have signed keys of people in the strongset ;)
[08:48] <crimsun> Hobbsee: yes.
[08:48] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee, I'm pretty sure.
[08:48] <Hobbsee> oh yay!
[08:49] <Fujitsu> How odd. gip only has a delta because was rebuilt because of a libsigc++ name change. No actual change.
[08:49] <heretician> Hobbsee: Any other Guides you would recommend I move on to AFTER https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html ?
[08:49] <raphink> yes Hobbsee
[08:49] <raphink> heretician: did you read the New Maintainer's Guide?
[08:49] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ie, that was the change from debian  to ubuntu?
[08:49] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee, yeah.
[08:49] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee, just a changelog change. Nothing else.
[08:50] <heretician> raphink: Wasnt given that one :P
[08:50] <Hobbsee> heretician: then try a package, and refer back to any/all of the guides
[08:50] <raphink> heretician: sure you were, I made a strong point to have it as an introduction of the ubuntu packaging guide iirc
[08:50] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: okay, cd .. and dpkg-source -x the debian source, and check it builds and installs on edgy.  if it does, then you get to request a sync :)
[08:51] <raphink> at least I think I remember so
[08:51] <heretician> raphink: Hrm, well was it https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompilingSoftware or https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompilingEasyHowTo
[08:51] <Hobbsee> raphink: it's at the end, iirc
[08:51] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee, I haven't got an Edgy pbuilder yet (not enough bandwidth here, I'll build one at school tomorrow).
[08:51] <raphink> heretician: go to the Additional Ressources in the end of the Ubuntu Packaging GUide
[08:51] <raphink> the first link there is the DNMG
[08:52] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: okay, nice, did you want me to test build it from here, then you can request a sync if it succeeds?
[08:52] <fowlduck> is there an easier way to locate those in the strong set in your area?
[08:52] <Fujitsu> Yes please, Hobbsee. crimsun's probably getting a little tired of testing mine :)
[08:52] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: heh, he'll probably want to test anyway, if he's going to upload it.
[08:53] <Hobbsee> no, wait, if it's a sync, before he acks it.
[08:53] <heretician> raphink: Yup, I see them now-- Well I haven't got to that guide yet anyway
[08:53] <raphink> heretician: this is the reference guide
[08:53] <raphink> for Debian
[08:53] <heretician> raphink: So many :(
[08:53] <raphink> then if you still want to read, read Policy
[08:53] <raphink> at least a bit of it
[08:53] <fowlduck> aha! i found one
[08:54] <fowlduck> and only a 2 hour drive
[08:54] <raphink> lol
[08:55] <raphink> fowlduck: honestly, if you're wanting to get involved in FOSS, you'll find people to sign your key at the next linux event you'll attend
[08:55] <raphink> prolly Debian or Ubuntu people
[08:55] <raphink> since most other projects don't bother with keys
[08:55] <fowlduck> there aren't many in my area
[08:55] <Hobbsee> fowlduck: and it's really not that big a deal - you will meet people who can do it
[08:55] <raphink> fowlduck: aren't many what? linux events?
[08:55] <fowlduck> aren't that many events...at least that I know of
[08:56] <raphink> fowlduck: where are you?
[08:56] <fowlduck> madison, WI, USA
[08:56] <raphink> how about these people ? http://www.madisonlinux.org/
[08:56] <fowlduck> yeah, i emailed them
[08:57] <fowlduck> irc channel is dead
[08:57] <raphink> ah
[08:57] <fowlduck> rather recent update but nothing about when they meet
[08:57] <raphink> mhm
[08:59] <fowlduck> small world: http://wistechnology.com/events.php
[08:59] <fowlduck> scroll down to MATC IT Education Open House
[08:59] <fowlduck> follow that link and scroll all the way down to the bottom
[08:59] <fowlduck> that's me on the bottom right
[09:00] <fowlduck> ha
[09:00] <fowlduck> i feel proud
[09:00] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: go ahead and file the merge report for gip, it builds and installs fine
[09:01] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: s/merge report/sync request/
[09:01] <Hobbsee> crimsun: want to ack Fujitsu's sync request when it gets done?
[09:02] <fowlduck> well, goodnight
[09:02] <fowlduck> crimsun, thanks for everything, as usual
[09:02] <crimsun> sure, just link
[09:03] <crimsun> I'm out for a bit but will check back in 20 mins
[09:10] <Hobbsee> hi tuxmaniac
[09:10] <tuxmaniac> Hobbsee> howdy?
[09:11] <Hobbsee> tuxmaniac: i'm okay :)  snuck out from work :D
[09:20] <crimsun> Fujitsu: anything in Ubuntu universe that's a -XbuildY can be synced
[09:22] <Hobbsee> crimsun: well, yeah, but do we know that for sure?
[09:22] <crimsun> yes
[09:22] <crimsun> otherwise we use ubuntu instead of build
[09:23] <StevenK> -XbuildY is a no-change upload to rebuild the package
[09:23] <StevenK> People going for -dev should know this. :-P
[09:23] <Hobbsee> i realise that
[09:24] <Hobbsee> StevenK: i knew that, i was merely thinking of those packages that build in debian, but ftbfs in ubuntu.
[09:24] <Hobbsee> of which i've seen a couple
[09:24] <Hobbsee> well, i've seen a couple this cycle.
[09:50] <Hotwheelz> Hi I have a question for package developer in here can I ask that one pls dcc chat me thanks :-)
[09:50] <Hotwheelz> for a sorry
[09:52] <Hotwheelz> guys
[09:53] <Hobbsee> Hotwheelz: i doubt you'll get anyone answering to that.
[09:55] <crimsun> Hotwheelz: pretty much the only time private queries make sense is for a security-related issue; otherwise we're all eyes.
[09:56] <Hotwheelz> ok then
[09:56] <Hotwheelz> if i run a packages search 4 Mythtv only 0.18 packages show up latest build is 0.19 when will the repositry\s be updated to reflect this?
[09:57] <crimsun> dapper will not be updated to use 0.19*
[09:57] <crimsun> I believe FunnyLookinHat is working to integrate mythtv 0.19* into multiverse
[09:57] <Fujitsu> Oops. I'm back now.
[09:57] <Fujitsu> crimsun, bug #53122 is the gip sync request.
[09:57] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 53122 in gip "Please sync 1.6.1.1-1 from Debian Sid" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/53122
[09:57] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: heya :)
[09:57] <Fujitsu> Thanks Hobbsee :)
[09:58] <Fujitsu> I was coaxed into playing a board-game with my 7 and 12 year-old siblings.
[09:58] <Fujitsu> Very painful it was.
[09:58] <Fujitsu> But parents can be persuasive.
[09:58] <Hotwheelz> hey Fujitsu
[09:59] <crimsun> Fujitsu: done.
[09:59] <Fujitsu> Thanks, crimsun.
[09:59] <crimsun> out for the morning, back later.
[09:59] <Hotwheelz> funnylooking are u there
[10:00] <Fujitsu> And now I'm being told that sitting at the computer all day is unhealthy, and thus I must leave it. (even though I was up for a couple of hours before, and away for a couple of hours today... and what else is there to do!?)
[10:00] <Hobbsee> hehe
[10:00] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: my parents stopped telling me that a while ago :)
[10:01] <Fujitsu> Saying I'm doing work doesn't work...
[10:01] <Fujitsu> It's stupid.
[10:01] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: well, they never see the uni work anyway, so...
[10:01] <Hobbsee> :P
[10:03] <Fujitsu> Now they're making excuses. For example, they're saying I'll get deep-vein thrombosis.
[10:03] <Fujitsu> This is the first time they've brought such pathetic excuses into it.
[10:05] <heretician> Carpel tunnel.
[10:05] <heretician> Carpal* that is
[10:07] <heretician> "Initial treatment generally involves resting the affected hand and wrist for at least 2 weeks" two whole weeks!
[10:08] <Hobbsee> ah yes, there's a package under that name.
[10:08] <Hobbsee> rsi does happen
[10:08] <heretician> Minesweeper? People play that game?
[10:09] <Hobbsee> heretician: sure, its' a great game!
[10:09] <heretician> Too much Linux for you!
[10:09] <heretician> Im not mathematical at all hehe ;/
[10:09] <heretician> I wish more people would get on Atlantik
[10:10] <heretician> What's that
[10:10] <Hobbsee> !info ksudoku
[10:10] <ubotu> ksudoku: sudoku puzzle generator/solver. In repository universe, is optional. Version 0.3-3ubuntu2 (dapper), package size 117 kB, installed size 356 kB
[10:10] <heretician> Puzzles, now that's more my genre
[10:36] <imbrandon> moins all
[10:39] <zakame> hi imbrandon and all
[10:39] <imbrandon> 
[11:12] <phanatic> morning
[11:24] <Fujitsu> What's with ilohamail's version numbers!?
[11:24] <Fujitsu> 0.8.14-0rc3sarge1, 0.8.14-0rc3sid2...
[01:42] <Hobbsee> hi all
[01:47] <phanatic> hello Hobbsee
[01:47] <Fujitsu> Hi Hobbsee.
[01:47] <Hobbsee> hi phanatic, Fujitsu :)
[01:47] <Toadstool> hi everybody
[01:48] <Fujitsu> Hey Toadstool.
[01:48] <Toadstool> heya Fujitsu
[01:48] <Hobbsee> hi Toadstool
[01:49] <Toadstool> hi Hobbsee
[01:52] <phanatic> hey Toadstool
[01:52] <Toadstool> hi phanatic
[04:30] <ryanakca> how do you move a bug from edgy to dapper in launchpad... I just reported a bug... and it's listed in edgy... even though its a dapper bug
[04:37] <Hobbsee> ryanakca: you dont?  what's the bug #?
[04:39] <ryanakca> Hobbsee: I dont what? #53145
[04:39] <Hobbsee> bug 53145
[04:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 53145 in courier-pop "Missing configuration file for courier-pop. Does not install." [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/53145
[04:39] <ryanakca> Hobbsee: oh... then I need to set that bug to rejected and somehow reported it to dapper.
[04:40] <Hobbsee> ryanakca: firstly, what's the source package for courier-pop?
[04:53] <ryanakca> Hobbsee: fixed.
[04:55] <Hobbsee> ryanakca: i'd just add "on dapper" to the description of the bug
[04:55] <ryanakca> Hobbsee: courier
[04:55] <ryanakca> kk
[04:56] <ryanakca> done, ty :)
[05:12] <FunnyLookinHat> Crap!  I missed my big debut!
[05:14] <FunnyLookinHat> BBL
[05:14] <FunnyLookinHat> : )
[05:16] <Hobbsee> hi Yagisan!
[05:16] <Hobbsee> FunnyLookinHat: what's up?
[05:16] <FunnyLookinHat> hey Hobbsee   : )
[05:16] <FunnyLookinHat> Did you all see that mdz is on the front page of /. ?
[05:17] <Hobbsee> FunnyLookinHat: nope
[05:17] <Hobbsee> where?
[05:17] <FunnyLookinHat> http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/15/1959221
[05:17] <FunnyLookinHat> mdz = Matt Zimmerman
[05:18] <Hobbsee> yeah, yeah, i realise that
[05:20] <FunnyLookinHat> Ahh ok,   I only found out by accident  : )
[05:21] <FunnyLookinHat> well I must be going.   gotta get showered for church   : )   cya Hobbsee
[05:21] <Hobbsee> cya :)
[05:44] <Arbiter> is there any reviewer?
[05:52] <Arbiter> can someone review my smartpm package located here: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2709 - splitted because requested here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SmartPackageManager - thanks a lot
[06:01] <freeflying|away> Arbiter: smart is alredy in debian and ubuntu
[06:02] <Arbiter> freeflying|away, i know
[06:02] <Arbiter> but a split was requested here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SmartPackageManager
[06:02] <Arbiter> split into smartpm & smartpm-gtk packages
[06:03] <Arbiter> "The package needs to be split into a smart package and a smart-gtk package to make it feasible for server installs."
[06:03] <freeflying|away> Arbiter: have talked with mvo?
[06:03] <Arbiter> freeflying|away, Last Seen: 1 week 4 days (23h 43m 29s) ago
[06:03] <Arbiter> i thought that was better to start making the package
[06:04] <Arbiter> it can be always archived
[06:04] <Arbiter> but if approved the package would be alredy done
[06:04] <freeflying|away> Arbiter: u'd better talk with mvo, he is the maintainer  :)
[06:05] <Hobbsee> Arbiter: he doenst bite.  much.
[06:05] <Hobbsee> night freeflying|away
[06:05] <Arbiter> Hobbsee, heh :D
[06:05] <Hobbsee> guess it is bedtime, hey...
[06:05] <Hobbsee> and testing.
[06:05] <Arbiter> it's 6pm here :D
[06:06] <Hobbsee> Arbiter: 2am monday here
[06:06] <Arbiter> :D
[06:15] <Yagisan> Hobbsee: sure you'll go to bed. we believe you ...
[06:15] <Hobbsee> Yagisan: hehe.  no, i will.  just not sure at what time yet.
[06:16] <Yagisan> Hobbsee: how have you been ? I've had some problems with my eyes recently :(
[06:17] <Hobbsee> Yagisan: i'm okay :)  been doing lots of merging, etc, i go for MOTU on wednesday
[06:17] <Hobbsee> any MOTU's around to approve a sync request?
[06:17] <Hobbsee> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/camorama/+bug/53153
[06:17] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 53153 in camorama "[Edgy MoM]  Please sync camorama  0.17-5 from Debian Sid" [Untriaged,Confirmed] 
[06:18] <Yagisan> Hobbsee: good luck on Wednesday
[06:18] <Hobbsee> Yagisan: thanks :)
[06:20] <Hobbsee> oh good, cheops should be a sync too.
[06:20] <Hobbsee> anyway, i'm going to bed.  night all
[07:51] <Arbiter> I ask for package review - name: libgimp-cli - Uploaded to revu (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2714)
[07:51] <Arbiter> Package availability: Debian: No - Ubuntu: No
[07:51] <Arbiter> Thanks a lot
[07:51] <Arbiter> ;)
[07:53] <Arbiter> s/cli/cil
[07:53] <Arbiter> :)
[08:30] <cypher1> finding out that building a package is not easy ;)
[09:40] <zul> hey
[10:19] <carthik> so how do I work to bring my favourite universe package up to date with the latest versions in Debian? Like gmailfs, armagetron etc?
[10:22] <crimsun> carthik: gmailfs is a merge assigned (tentatively) to bmonty
[10:22] <crimsun> feel free to work on it and stash a merged srcpkg somewhere so we can check and upload it
[10:25] <carthik> crimsun, thank you - since it is "taken" i'd rather spend my time elsewhere, I guess.
[10:25] <crimsun> carthik: it's not at all "taken"
[10:25] <crimsun> the assignment is simply "who last touched it"
[10:25] <crimsun> it's not at all binding
[10:26] <carthik> crimsun, may I ask where you found info regarding who it was assigned to tentatively?
[10:27] <crimsun> carthik: http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html
[10:31] <carthik> crimsun, I'm sorry but the report page sounds confusing ( http://merges.ubuntu.com/g/gmailfs/REPORT )
[10:31] <crimsun> carthik: what do you find confusing about it?
[10:32] <carthik> crimsun, where I can download the gmailfs_0.7.1-6ubuntu1.src.tar.gz package mentioned there to manually check the conflicts?
[10:33] <crimsun> carthik: you probably want to read http://merges.ubuntu.com/
[10:33] <carthik> crimsun, sorry I just did - I see that grab-merge.sh might help. Thanks.
[10:35] <crimsun> (note that gmailfs can be synced)
[10:37] <carthik> crimsun, and how did you learn that? was it by looking at the src ?
[10:40] <LaserJock> crimsun: is packages.qa.debian.org working for you?
[10:40] <crimsun> LaserJock: no
[10:40] <crimsun> carthik: yes, I compared the Ubuntu delta with the current Debian source package
[10:41] <carthik> thanks, crimsun. I'm still very confused with the process, but will experiment a little and learn. For gmailfs - I suppose you'd just do a sync, or do i need to file a bug requesting a sync?
[10:46] <crimsun> carthik: you may file a bug against the gmailfs source package saying it's ok to override Ubuntu changes. Then let a MOTU know the URL so he can sign off on it
[10:47] <LaserJock> yep
[10:47] <carthik> crimsun, so is there a recommended place for me to upload the src package to?
[10:48] <crimsun> carthik: you don't need to upload anything for a sync request
[10:48] <imbrandon> crimsun, whats the protocal request http://merges.ubuntu.com/h/helix-player/REPORT is just synced
[10:48] <crimsun> imbrandon: file a bug against the helix-player source package saying it's ok to override Ubuntu changes, and let a MOTU know the URL so he can sign off on it
[10:48] <imbrandon> k
[10:50] <LaserJock> hmm, maybe that might be a good bot item to add
[10:50] <imbrandon> LaserJock, probable
[10:50] <imbrandon> hrm crimsun it looks like helix ftbs since pre-dapper though ;(
[10:50] <imbrandon> not good
[10:51] <crimsun> it will ftbfs on at least a couple arches
[10:51] <carthik> crimsun, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gmailfs/+bug/53177 - what could I do to make it better - should I subscribe any team to it?
[10:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 53177 in gmailfs "Please sync gmailfs" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed] 
[10:51] <crimsun> carthik: yes, normally you would subscribe the 'ubuntu-archive' team
[10:51] <imbrandon> crimsun, it looks like on dapper and edgy ALL arches ftbs ( no binarys except in breezy )
[10:52] <crimsun> carthik: but we request that you don't do that, since a MOTU will do that
[10:52] <LaserJock> carthik: also it is generally good to put what ever specifically to sync
[10:52] <LaserJock> umm
[10:52] <LaserJock> what version specifically to sync
[10:52] <carthik> whoops - I just did that... crimsun. Sorry.
[10:53] <imbrandon> crimsun, can you poke the url and make sure i'm reading this right that there has never been a binary in dapper or edgy that builds ( https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+search?text=helix-player )
[10:53] <crimsun> carthik: yes, we request that you don't subscribe u-a because of possible adjustments, which will spam u-a
[10:53] <carthik> LaserJock, thanks, I changed the description to include the version number
[10:54] <carthik> crimsun, I'm sorry, I subscribed u-a before I could read you saying I shouldn't - won't happen again.
[10:54] <crimsun> bug 53177
[10:54] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 53177 in gmailfs "Please sync gmailfs 0.7.1-6 from Debian Sid" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/53177
[10:55] <carthik> Thanks, crimsun :)
[10:57] <crimsun> imbrandon: the ubuntu delta caused a ftbfs, yes
[10:57] <crimsun> imbrandon: however, 1.0.6-3 is available
[10:57] <imbrandon> k
[10:58] <imbrandon> 1.0.7-1 is avail in sid
[10:59] <crimsun> right, so file a sync request
[10:59] <imbrandon> doing so now
[10:59] <crimsun> remember /not/ to subscribe ubuntu-archive
[10:59] <tseng> crimsun: not?
[10:59] <imbrandon> tseng, not till a motu checks it
[10:59] <tseng> oh.
[11:00] <crimsun> tseng: right, the MOTU should do that when he signs off on it to avoid spamming u-a if any changes like above have to be made
[11:00] <tseng> ok.
[11:00] <tseng> I dont even know who is a motu anymore
[11:00] <tseng> and who is just a sponsored upload
[11:01] <bluefoxicy> I think I'm a sponsored upload or something
[11:01] <bluefoxicy> they made me click some sign up button
[11:01] <imbrandon> tseng, i'm still a hopefull for a bit longer , hopefully i'll feel confident enough in the next ~30 days to go up to the TB for motu 
[11:01] <bluefoxicy> I didn't really pay much attention
[11:01] <imbrandon> crimsun, bug 53178
[11:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 53178 in helix-player "please sync 1.0.7-1 from debian sid" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/53178
[11:02] <LaserJock> tseng: http://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev :)
[11:02] <tseng> LaserJock: not terribly concerned about it
[11:02] <crimsun> imbrandon: done.
[11:02] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  btw ubuntu seems to be doing --no-execstack now with gcrypt, you can close #49192
[11:02] <imbrandon> crimsun, thanks
[11:02] <tseng> LaserJock: ill assume the tb doesnt randomly approve people
[11:03] <tseng> bluefoxicy: you cant?
[11:03] <LaserJock> tseng: well, that's a different thing altogether ;-)
[11:03] <crimsun> more coffee.
[11:03] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  should I close it "fix released" for just a fix released on edgy though?  I don't know if Dapper has added the flag
[11:03] <tseng> dapper is done.
[11:04] <tseng> closed
[11:04] <bluefoxicy> it's a matter of debian/rules, not patching or upgrading.  That doesn't fall into -updates?
[11:05] <tseng> does it really need to?
[11:05] <bluefoxicy> It's not my distro.
[11:05] <tseng> this is pretty niche stuff seeing as we dont have a pax kernel
[11:05] <bluefoxicy> But fixing it gets an executable stack off some 13 things
[11:05] <bluefoxicy> well, gaim will have an executable stack on amd64 with gcrypt having an executable stack.
[11:05] <tseng> see
[11:05] <tseng> it is your distro, and you could take the effort to fix something
[11:05] <tseng> or close your own bug
[11:06] <tseng> instead of just whining
[11:06] <tseng> its kid stuff to add a configure flag to a source package and ask for it to be reviewed for -updates
[11:07] <tseng> i would ACK it, but i wont do the work
[11:07] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  nods.  How would I go about doing that?
[11:08] <tseng> grab the source package in dapper
[11:08] <tseng> apply your change, build a new source package
[11:08] <tseng> and make a debdiff
[11:08] <bluefoxicy> make a debdiff?
[11:08] <tseng> debdiff foo.dsc bar.dsc
[11:09] <bluefoxicy> alright.
[11:09] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  I did mention this was already fixed in edgy right?
[11:09] <tseng> yes.
[11:09] <tseng> is it exactly the same version and revision?
[11:09] <tseng> well, one rev off
[11:09] <tseng> doubt it.
[11:09] <bluefoxicy> libgcrypt11-1.2.2?
[11:10] <tseng> 1.2.2-1 in dapper
[11:10] <tseng> -2 in edgy
[11:11] <tseng> except that there are possibly other changes
[11:11] <tseng> and that isnt the right versioning
[11:11] <tseng> it would be 1.1 or something
[11:11] <tseng> right so -2 is a huge diff
[11:11] <tseng> we need just the one change
[11:12] <bluefoxicy> tseng: easy enough.
[11:12] <tseng> make the changelog like
[11:12] <tseng> libgcrypt11 1.2.2-1.1 dapper-updates
[11:13] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  if you're interested btw take a look at bug #49192, the first comment lists everything that was running on my machine with a +X stack because of gcrypt, which will all be magically fixed.
[11:13] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 49192 in libgcrypt11 "libgcrypt11 has an executable stack" [Untriaged,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/49192
[11:13] <bluefoxicy> oh.  I see you already have.
[11:20] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  it's just a source package so building it on edgy won't matter rightL?
[11:20] <tseng> right, if you get the changelog right
[11:20] <tseng> you should test it on dapper
[11:22] <bluefoxicy> uh
[11:22] <bluefoxicy> tseng I got this massive diff
[11:24] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  I'm going to rebuild the source package for the original, and then for the modified one, and debdiff.  That should buff out these changes-I-didn't-make
[11:24] <bluefoxicy> I mean what the hell one of them changed the address of the FSF
[11:25] <bluefoxicy> I downloaded the package on my dapper machine and scp'd it over here
[11:26] <LaserJock> the address of FSF changed, some packages haven't reflected that
[11:26] <bluefoxicy> LaserJock:  no, I mean
[11:27] <bluefoxicy> I did an apt-source libgcrypt11; went into the source tree, added a changelog entry and a line to rules; dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot; stepped out of the source tree and debdiffed the .dsc apt-source got and teh one I just made
[11:27] <bluefoxicy> and came up with thousands of changes.
[11:28] <Laser_away> make sure you're diffing the right versions
[11:28] <bluefoxicy> i gotta go for a bit, be back later
[11:29] <bluefoxicy> Laser_away:  the directory I started with was empty, there's only two dsc's here, the one apt got and teh one I made out of it
[11:29] <Laser_away> odd
[12:05] <shawarma> Hmm.. I'm just getting started on these merges.. If I find a package that was merged just fine, all I need to do is change the Merge-O-Matic thing in the changelog to my name and e-mail, no?
[12:05] <tseng> you dont need to change it if you didnt change anything
[12:05] <tseng> only if you made notable changes
[12:06] <shawarma> tseng: Really? Has this always been the case?
[12:06] <tseng> yes.
[12:06] <shawarma> I'm ALMOST sure someone told me to put my own name there instead of MoM back in the breezy days.
[12:06] <tseng> you can change it if you like but there is no reason
[12:07] <shawarma> I think the rationale was that that way it was clear that it had been reviewed (and by whom) and that it wasn't an accidental upload of an automatic merge.