[01:50] <jsgotangco> good morning
[01:51] <LaserJock> and here too
[02:27] <ogra> edgy-install-i386.iso              18-Jul-2006 00:37  690M
[02:27] <ogra> hey we have 10M left
[02:31] <crimsun> xulrunner!!!@
[02:32] <ogra> heh
[02:32] <ogra> find someone to maintain it in main and we have a deal :)
[02:32] <crimsun> :-)
[02:33] <ogra> i wouldnt mind to maintain it as a package, but i would mind doing two rebuilds a month for security updates
[02:56] <rodarvus> I'll take a look at xulrunner, just for the sake of it
[02:57] <rodarvus> (that doesn't even means I'm going to build it, btw :) )
[03:00] <jsgotangco> whoa still awake?
[03:00] <crimsun> -3 is only 10 PM iirc
[03:00] <rodarvus> *nods* :)
[03:00] <rodarvus> exactly
[03:00] <crimsun> (I'm -4)
[03:04] <ogra> you and your negative timezones ...
[03:05] <ogra> :)
[03:05] <crimsun> at least you don't have as far to travel for the conferences ;-)
[03:05] <ogra> heh, sadly, yes
[03:13] <jsgotangco> ogra: did you survive your install?
[03:13] <ogra> nope
[03:13] <ogra> but i'm confident about the current one
[03:13] <jsgotangco> i saw a .1 build should i continue installing?
[03:13] <ogra> there is also already a 18
[03:13] <jsgotangco> ahh i will rsync again just in case
[03:13] <ogra> the .1 dies o xserver-xorg
[03:14] <ogra> *on
[03:14] <jsgotangco> hmm the 18 is very fresh
[03:15] <jsgotangco> ahh i have 18 already it seems
[03:15] <ogra> nearly 3h old :)
[03:17] <ogra> gah
[03:19] <jsgotangco> ?
[03:19] <ogra> still fails
[03:20] <jsgotangco> doh
[03:20] <crimsun> is it the postinst?
[03:20] <ogra> something in the postinst uses $TERM ... which is set to bterm in the installer 
[03:29] <ogra> hmm, actually grep returns nothing ...
[03:29] <ogra> must be something the postinst calls
[03:59] <ogra> actually its totally silly that we dont have a "noconfig" debconf key for this case for xserver-xorg ... there is no reason to configure it in the chroot, copying a dummy file would be enough
[05:58] <Lord_Athur> Hi all
[08:23] <RichEd> 'lo all
[08:39] <jsgotangco> RichEd: hi!
[08:43] <RichEd> morning jsgotangco :)
[08:43] <jsgotangco> RichEd: you got your stuff sorted out?
[08:44] <highvoltage> morning everyone
[08:45] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: hey jono
[08:46] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: have you been affeced by the quakes?
[08:46] <jsgotangco> nope that's a far away place we rarely get quakes here but when we do, its big
[08:47] <jsgotangco> we have 2 active volcanoes acting up lately so it must be related to the quake at the south
[08:47] <highvoltage> wow
[08:47] <highvoltage> how do they act up?
[08:48] <jsgotangco> there is lava flowing at the moment
[08:48] <jsgotangco> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayon_Volcano
[08:48] <jsgotangco> so a major eruption is expected in a few weeks
[08:48] <crimsun> sweet, we expect digital photos from jsgotangco.
[08:48] <RichEd_> jsgotangco:  must be freaky & quite exciting at the same time ?
[08:49] <jsgotangco> its pretty far away from my place
[08:49] <jsgotangco> its actually a beautiful sight to behold ive seen it erupt before 
[08:51] <jsgotangco> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taal_volcano -> i live near here
[08:51] <jsgotangco> well grew up
[08:53] <jsgotangco> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinatubo -> this one trashed us up real bad more than a decade ago
[08:55] <axl000> anyone can help me whti  problem in dapper?
[08:55] <axl000> sorry for my bad english
[08:57] <jsgotangco> axl000: what's up? this edubuntu specific channel though
[08:57] <axl000> hi
[08:58] <axl000> when i shutdown or reboot
[08:58] <axl000> my pc crash
[08:58] <axl000> im using ubuntu dapper
[08:58] <jsgotangco> how does it "crash"
[08:59] <axl000> jus crash
[08:59] <axl000> after the now the system will reboot
[08:59] <jsgotangco> can you be more specific on how it crashes?
[09:00] <axl000> sorry 
[09:00] <axl000> id speak english to well
[09:01] <axl000> just crash, the screen goes black and the system doesnt reboot
[09:01] <jsgotangco> yes don't worry but we can't go further if we just say it "crashes"
[09:01] <jsgotangco> right
[09:01] <jsgotangco> so basically you force reboot or do a power cycle right?
[09:02] <jsgotangco> (pushing the power switch/reboot button)
[09:02] <axl000> yes
[09:02] <axl000> i wait a little
[09:02] <axl000> and im force to shutdown pressing the buton
[09:03] <jsgotangco> yup i've experienced that in one of my machines before what I did was update my bios and it just went away
[09:03] <axl000> mmmm
[09:03] <axl000> i cant update his is the last bios
[09:04] <jsgotangco> sorry i wouldn't really know what causes it sometimes the system tells its not able to reboot
[09:04] <axl000> i look in the ubuntu forums and a lot of people have this same problem
[09:04] <axl000> cant you ask to someone ?
[09:05] <axl000> i dont know people whor can help me
[09:06] <jsgotangco> can you try #ubuntu
[09:06] <axl000> yes. but im limited with the leguage
[09:07] <jsgotangco> what language are you conversant with
[09:07] <axl000> write me the exact question to ask in ubuntu please
[09:07] <axl000> spanish
[09:08] <jsgotangco> i think you should try asking in ubuntu-es
[09:08] <jsgotangco> or to the ubuntu-es mailing list
[09:08] <axl000> no one know the answer
[09:08] <jsgotangco> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-es
[09:08] <jsgotangco> there's an archive
[09:09] <axl000> i am so frustrated
[09:18] <whitty> hey everyone
[09:19] <Burgundavia> hey JaneW
[09:20] <whitty> so how easy is it to easy ed ubuntu as a server for thin client computers since I am working in a school and that is going to be my job in a couple of days of setting the server up with ed ubuntu
[09:20] <JaneW> hi Burgundavia 
[09:20] <Burgundavia> whitty: it is very easy
[09:21] <JaneW> Burgundavia, how's .CA? Warm at all this time of year?
[09:21] <Burgundavia> warmish
[09:21] <Burgundavia> I live in the mild part
[09:21] <Burgundavia> not too cold and not too warm
[09:22] <jsgotangco> whitty: you can check on this for staters http://www.edubuntu.org/GettingStarted
[09:22] <whitty> really Burgundavia. Yeah I seen bits and pieces of it. I was going to install it on my laptop but I decided against it until I backup all my stuff first since i am not sure what I need off of this. 
[09:22] <whitty> does ed ubuntu have a live cd like knoppix
[09:22] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:22] <jsgotangco> whitty: the livecd is a workstation instance not a server one
[09:22] <Burgundavia> it is edubuntu, btw
[09:22] <whitty> oh sorry
[09:23] <Burgundavia> no worries
[09:23] <whitty> Yeah I am going to have the PC's look like Win XP machines and the server will be edubuntu I think. I am not sure
[09:23] <Burgundavia> look like?
[09:24] <whitty> grrr I mean the Pcs workstations will be Win XP and the server will be edubuntu
[09:24] <Burgundavia> ah
[09:24] <jsgotangco> then you're not looking into a thin client solution
[09:24] <Burgundavia> indeed
[09:24] <jsgotangco> but rather a file/print server one
[09:26] <whitty> actually i was told file/print and then a thin client also so i am not 100% sure\
[09:26] <whitty> i think it is going to be thin client actually
[09:26] <Burgundavia> then you don't need XP on the machines
[09:27] <jsgotangco> not digging at you, but do you know how a thin client solution works?
[09:27] <whitty> yes i know a thin client is a hard drive less machine that gets all it info and settings from the server
[09:27] <jsgotangco> yep
[09:29] <jsgotangco> in edubuntu you'll just have to fiddle a line or two after installation and it just works
[09:29] <whitty> excellent sounds way easier than windows 2003 Professional
[09:30] <jsgotangco> most if not all installations are successful by just looking at the Getting Started link i posted
[09:30] <jsgotangco> s/looking/following
[09:30] <whitty> Yea I love that page
[09:33] <whitty> thanks I read the page and it looks extremely simple to set up
[09:33] <whitty> thanks everyone
[09:33] <whitty>  you have all been a great help
[09:34] <Burgundavia> whitty: if there anything that isn't easy to setup, please tell us (via here or preferably the mailing lists) and we can work out how to make it easier
[09:35] <Burgundavia> I also encourage you to get involved in development, documentation and testing. It is very much YOUR distribution, as much as it is ours
[09:35] <jsgotangco> the next one will have good support for removable usb sticks
[09:36] <whitty> yeah definently. Actually I am thinking of switching my laptop and my personal PC from Windows Xp to Ubuntu or some really nice Linux distro. Since Well the only thing that doesn't suck in windows is a vacum cleaner (Since you know if Microsoft would make one, it would break)
[09:37] <jsgotangco> lol that's a good one
[09:37] <whitty> :)
[09:38] <Burgundavia> part of my past history involves an MCP and I have used Ubuntu as both a desktop and a server for about 2 years now
[09:38] <Burgundavia> geez, 2 years in oct
[09:38] <jsgotangco> goodness my last.fm profile is showing my fondness for silly 80s metal
[09:39] <Burgundavia> does last.fm cost money?
[09:39] <jsgotangco> not at all
[09:39] <jsgotangco> i play tunes in rhythmbox it just updates my playing habits
[09:39] <whitty> I am actually go to go down soon and get my CCNA, MCDST, A+, Server+, and one other one but I forgot what it was. 
[09:39] <Burgundavia> a+ is useful
[09:39] <Burgundavia> the cisco stuff will get you jobs
[09:39] <jsgotangco> 1 	
[09:39] <jsgotangco> Led Zeppelin
[09:39] <jsgotangco> 
[09:39] <jsgotangco> 88
[09:39] <jsgotangco> 2 	
[09:39] <jsgotangco> Manowar
[09:39] <jsgotangco> 
[09:39] <jsgotangco> 47
[09:39] <jsgotangco> 3 	
[09:40] <jsgotangco> Kiss
[09:40] <jsgotangco> 
[09:40] <Burgundavia> mcdst is not worth the paper it is printed on
[09:40] <jsgotangco> 40
[09:40] <jsgotangco> argghh
[09:40] <jsgotangco> sorry
[09:40] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco: you be old :)
[09:41] <whitty> Well i am majoring in Computer Information Systems with a focus on Tech Support, Networking, and security. I am then going to transfer to a 4 year school for my bachelors and masters in Network Administration and Network Security
[09:41] <jsgotangco> its just that "I Stole Your Love" was looping for like a day when i left my PC on
[09:41] <whitty> oh at the end of next quarter I should be able to get my cert in Linux+
[09:41] <Burgundavia> I would do what I did: run away from the Windows world
[09:41] <Burgundavia> oh, Linux+, another thing not worth the paper it is printed on
[09:42] <Burgundavia> LPI is fairly good and hard
[09:42] <whitty> I don't even know what Distro Linux+ uses
[09:42] <Burgundavia> non
[09:42] <jsgotangco> its not distro specific
[09:42] <Burgundavia> certs are useful in two case: on paper and when you don't have any experience
[09:43] <Burgundavia> the 2nd is questionable
[09:43] <jsgotangco> i still think LPI and RHCE get good people
[09:43] <jsgotangco> and RHCE can be hard
[09:43] <Burgundavia> yes, becuase they are hard and people fail
[09:43] <Burgundavia> a monkey could get an MCSE
[09:43] <Burgundavia> s/an/a
[09:44] <whitty> but I am a Linux newbie. Stuck in the windows world
[09:44] <jsgotangco> i actually won an exam voucher for RHCE but didn't take it because its really hard
[09:44] <Burgundavia> certs are not going to help
[09:44] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco: you should have done it, just for laughs
[09:44] <whitty> Windows = Gateway to be spyed on
[09:44] <Burgundavia> another thing to remember: we are building a better os, not slagging MS
[09:44] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: yeah a peer of mine took the exam but didnt pass RHCE but got RHCT but that is like the cert for people who failed RHCE ;)
[09:45] <Burgundavia> yep
[09:45] <Burgundavia> anyway, I have to sleep
[09:46] <RichEd> jsgotangco: do we have anything like "a list of Edubuntu certified machines" where we guarantee Edubuntu will install & run 1st time ?
[09:46] <jsgotangco> RichEd: we can only pray but most installs do work fine and if ubuntu works on it, so should edubuntu
[09:47] <jsgotangco> RichEd: the laptop testing team is probably our only empirical data that we have in terms of compatibility others are dependent on the hwdb client if ran
[09:48] <RichEd> yes, am aware that most are good, but thinking now with my hat: "would like to try linux but am a nervous human being"
[09:48] <jsgotangco> heh chances are if it doesn't work on the live session it won't run on install
[09:48] <RichEd> where say: if you have h/w or get h/w from this list ... it will work for you without having to learn any geekspeak
[09:48] <RichEd> ( and i mean that in the nicest way ;)
[09:49] <jsgotangco> most issues lie on the display adapters most of the time
[09:49] <RichEd> i'm just borrow concepts from our opposition ... you know their lists of certified machines
[09:51] <jsgotangco> i still have hardware that doesn't work on some areas but pretty much usable
[09:51] <RichEd> so if daddy somewhere (who is addicted to MS in work environment due to history & existing application constraints) is about to buy a notebook / desktop for junior, we can say: select something off this list and non problemo ...
[09:52] <RichEd> you too can become a linux user ...
[09:52] <RichEd> and free the next generation from the shackles of commercial operating bloatware
[09:52] <jsgotangco> im not sure about desktops they are too diverse compared to the compact and mostly standard configs of notebooks
[09:53] <jsgotangco> with notebooks its easy to capture a subset of the market since we currently have some sponsored machines out there
[09:53] <RichEd> some sponsored machines out there <- just a personal observations that the average PC user 
[09:53] <RichEd> ahh * ignore last input ***
[09:53] <jsgotangco> we don't have a definitive hardware compatibility list
[09:54] <RichEd> we currently have some sponsored machines out there <- right this is what I am asking for where do I see or find this sort of thing
[09:54] <jsgotangco> we *do* have data since hoary or warty but not massaged
[09:55] <RichEd> we don't have a definitive hardware compatibility list <- by no means am i saying that we want to cover every machine, but a list of: if you are buying new and are unsure, start with one of these
[09:55] <jsgotangco> RichEd: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam -> focus on "canonical supplied"
[09:55] <RichEd> tx.
[09:57] <RichEd> this stems from  my personal observations, that the average "human being" that I know who uses a PC would not be comfortable with the sort of conversations on this forum ... never mind the fact that most of them would not even know how to load an IRC client !
[09:58] <jsgotangco> RichEd: im aware of the fact but I would assume that people who deploy edubuntu in a server fashion have enough knowledge to fiddle with files as I would also know they can do so on a windows server
[09:58] <jsgotangco> but home users is a different use case 
[09:59] <RichEd> take my brother-in-law: he uses spreadsheets, financial packages, email, sort of knows how to load a web site given an URL, but his knowledge & comfort stops there. And yet, his daughter is off to University next year, in a city away from home ... a prime candidate for a Edubuntu / Ubuntu notebook.
[09:59] <cbx33> RichEd: Good morning
[09:59] <JaneW> RichEd, and she would know how to IRC! :P
[10:00] <cbx33> RichEd: I have a preliminary spreadsheet
[10:00] <RichEd> Yes, but the person actually buying her notebook may just go for the safer option !
[10:00] <jsgotangco> well the first time i met JaneW in Sydney she was using a windows laptop and people were screaming for her blood but look at her now
[10:00] <cbx33> what's your preffered email addy again?
[10:00] <JaneW> jsgotangco, yeah back on Windows *CRY*
[10:00] <jsgotangco> ick
[10:00] <JaneW> jsgotangco, but I'll be back!
[10:01] <RichEd> cbx33: see window ... not looking for a mail flood just yet !
[10:01] <jsgotangco> 10,000 brutal axe murders are not enough
[10:01] <RichEd> just that it's easier to start someone clean on Edubuntu than to reverse a MS user.
[10:02] <cbx33> RichEd: hehehe
[10:02] <cbx33> I got ya pm
[10:02] <crimsun> Windows isn't so bad if you run edubuntu in vmware.
[10:02] <cbx33> hehe
[10:02] <cbx33> crimsun: if a package is on REVU?
[10:03] <RichEd> anyway it's just some thinking around lowering the barriers to entry ... will give up the debate here & move it into a strat plan ... tx for inout
[10:03] <cbx33> actually nevermind
[10:03] <RichEd> input <- inout
[10:19] <RobinShepheard> hiya everybody
[10:20] <jsgotangco> hey
[10:41] <cbx33> sorry bout that guys
[10:41] <cbx33> some numnuts had plugged a network point into a network point
[10:44] <RichEd> anybody involved or going to with the post-edgy summit ?
[10:45] <jsgotangco> i would if i can
[10:45] <cbx33> i would if I could
[10:45] <cbx33> hehe
[10:46] <jsgotangco> cbx33: i think you should experience it even once
[10:52] <cbx33> I'd love to
[11:08] <cbx33> you gonna fund me :p
[11:11] <jsgotangco> you can start begging at RichEd
[11:14] <cbx33> heheh
[11:56] <jsgotangco> im out see you guys later
[12:00] <highvoltage> ogra: hey there
[12:00] <ogra> yo
[12:00] <highvoltage> can i bug you a bit?
[12:00] <ogra> sure
[12:01] <highvoltage> ltsp-client-setup tests if there is something in rw_dirs, and if it's empty, it sets some defaults
[12:01] <highvoltage> i added to that line, but it seems that rw_dirs already exist at that point.
[12:01] <ogra> you mean ltsp-build-client ?
[12:01] <highvoltage> do you perhaps know where it's set?
[12:02] <highvoltage> i mean ltesp-client-setup in /etc/init.d/ltsp-client-setup in the chroot
[12:02] <highvoltage> (whithout the e in ltesp :) )
[12:03] <ogra> oh, right, let me look
[12:07] <ogra> highvoltage, /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/default/ltsp-client-setup
[12:07] <cbx33> hey highvoltage havn't seen you in a while
[12:08] <cbx33> ogra: did you see gisomount is on the list for universe :d
[12:08] <ogra> cool
[12:08] <ogra> i saw the upload in the upload queue yesterday ... congrats ! 
[12:09] <cbx33> yup
[12:09] <cbx33> now I wait :p
[12:09] <RichEd> hi ogra: ping when you have a moment 
[12:17] <highvoltage> ogra: thanks :)
[12:17] <highvoltage> cbx33: yes, been away from home
[12:19] <RichEd> hey hi
[12:20] <highvoltage> hey Rich
[12:20] <RichEd> would you been keen to join a SchoolTool online discussion nest week with Tom ?
[12:20] <RichEd> next <- nest
[12:21] <ogra> RichEd, pong
[12:22] <highvoltage> RichEd: i would like to, although I would probably not contribute much, I don't know a lot about the schooltool project
[12:25] <RichEd> highvoltage: i'll send you a background email from Tom:

[12:25] <RichEd> the importance of data interoperability between applications in our school immediately became apparent.  

[12:26] <RichEd> i thought your experience with tuX will help our conversation ... may be able to combine req. 
[12:26] <highvoltage> ok
[12:28] <highvoltage> i know of some things that schoollink has done here where schools have no bandwidth, for example, when students leave a school running schoollink, go to another school who run schoollink, they can take their schoollink data to the new school on a disk.
[12:28] <highvoltage> http://edupac.co.za
[12:30] <highvoltage> sorry, schoollink is at http://www.schoollink.co.za
[12:30] <highvoltage> their products work well, but are horribly implemented. 
[12:35] <RichEd> yep re: edupac ... know albert vj quite well ...
[12:37] <RichEd> anyway see mail & comment ... when you have a moment ... i said to tom i would get back to him by next week
[01:04] <rodarvus> good morning
[01:05] <cbx33> mornin rodarvus 
[01:08] <rodarvus> hey cbx33
[01:14] <cbx33> ping ogra 
[01:14] <RichEd> afternoon rodarvus
[01:14] <cbx33> remember a while ago, we talk about the theming and brandying engine for ubuntu/edubuntu/all the buns, did that ever take off?
[01:15] <rodarvus> hi RichEd!
[01:16] <RichEd> brandying engine <- gee these linux guys take care of everything ;)
[01:16] <ogra> cbx33, it was just an idea ... nobody wrote a spec for it
[01:16] <cbx33> ah i thought someone was activly working on it
[01:16] <ogra> and as i announced i wouldnt be the one to implement it, but would be happy to help with experience
[01:17] <cbx33> it's just that it's tieing in with another idea I had
[01:17] <cbx33> I'm thinking of looking into developing it
[01:17] <ogra> feel free to code it :)
[01:19] <ogra> but write down before what you plan to do ;)
[01:19] <cbx33> yes
[01:19] <cbx33> i need ....damn phone
[01:25] <cbx33> ogra: does the ubuntu-artwork package have everything in it that "can" be changed?
[01:25] <EmxBA> hi
[01:25] <ogra> no
[01:26] <ogra> but the edubuntu-artwork package has all changes we make
[01:26] <cbx33> I'm still thinking along the lines of the totally customisable iso creator
[01:26] <ogra> ubuntu-artwork doesnt change any defaults
[01:26] <cbx33> that will modify the live cd
[01:26] <cbx33> and branding would be a big part of it
[01:27] <ogra> you need a tool that creates a postinst file for you and copies the art in place in the package stucture
[01:27] <cbx33> i see,
[01:27] <cbx33> my idea was a live cd tool
[01:27] <cbx33> or is that what you mean
[01:27] <ogra> no
[01:28] <ogra> i only mean the branding tool 
[01:28] <cbx33> ah i see
[01:28] <ogra> and i would make it a separate tool that creates a -artwork or an -artwork and a -default-settings package ... you can call it from a cd tool
[01:28] <cbx33> yes
[01:28] <cbx33> then it could be used elsewhere
[01:29] <ogra> yep
[01:29] <cbx33> ok, I may need a bit o help with the technicals at some point
[01:29] <cbx33> so basically, copy the ubuntu-artwork package, and mod the contents
[01:30] <ogra> fine with me, as i said i'll happily help with the tech side ... but i wont write it :)
[01:30] <ogra> no
[01:30] <ogra> forget about ubuntu-artwork ... you need a package that actually does customization
[01:30] <cbx33> ok
[01:30] <ogra> ubuntu-artwork only uses the defaults 
[01:31] <ogra> edubuntu-artwork or xubuntu-artwork are a better bet
[01:31] <cbx33> ok
[01:31] <cbx33> of course
[01:31] <cbx33>  :S
[01:32] <cbx33> I'm getting all excited now
[01:33] <highvoltage> ogra: there's some interesting problems we haven't thought about for diskless fat clients, such as how to install new programs into the chroot from the gui.
[01:34] <ogra> highvoltage, yes
[01:34] <ogra> thats why we postponed it ... w didnt discuss it deeply ...
[01:34] <ogra> i'd like to have some functions for dist-upgrade and package install in ltsp-manager at some point
[01:35] <cbx33> ogra: the boot splash images are difficult to do aren't they?
[01:35] <ogra> but we'll need a commandline tool as well
[01:35] <highvoltage> that would be nice
[01:35] <ogra> cbx33, nope
[01:35] <cbx33> oh I thought you said they were difficult to change?
[01:35] <ogra> highvoltage, feel free to write: ltsp-maintenance
[01:35] <highvoltage> perhaps a lynaptic for ltsp fat clients :) (joke)
[01:35] <ogra> ;)
[01:36] <highvoltage> ogra: at the pace i'm going now, i just might!
[01:36] <rodarvus> lynaptic :D
[01:36] <ogra> a server sided script that wraps ltsp commands in chroot  :)
[01:36] <ogra> well, running synaptic and update manager would be a bit oversized :)
[01:36] <cbx33> ogra: cool this package looks cool
[01:37] <ogra> i guess the dependencys would extend the chroot by about 100MB
[01:37] <highvoltage> yep. i'll ask you a bt more about that server side script later... sounds like fun.
[01:38] <ogra> well in fach it should just have wrappers for: chroot $LTSPROOT apt-get {update,upgrade,dist-upgrade,remove,install}
[01:38] <highvoltage> my chroot with a xubuntu-desktop installed on it is 1.3GB large.
[01:39] <ogra> *afct
[01:39] <ogra> ergh
[01:39] <highvoltage> hmmm.. yes. good idea. (me copies and pastes this conversation)
[01:39] <ogra> *fact
[01:39] <ogra> probably a nifty extra would be: sources-list add <url>/ sources-list remove <url>
[01:40] <highvoltage> i think ideally, for a fat client, you would have symlinks from the chroot to the main system (or perhaps the other way around) so that /usr and other directories are the same on the client and the server
[01:40] <ogra> that should cover everythig you need for package maintenance
[01:40] <highvoltage> that way you don't waste space, and your systems are synced software wise
[01:40] <rodarvus> brb, quick reboot
[01:40] <ogra> hmm i'm not sure symlinking would work ...
[01:40] <ogra> not sure how NFS behaves for that
[01:42] <highvoltage> since i have vmware where i can take snapshots of systems, i've been more confident to take weirder and weirder experiments :)
[01:42] <highvoltage> what is also nice is the ability to emulate a server and a thin client on my laptop.
[02:14] <cbx33> ogra: Just checked out the pacakge
[02:14] <cbx33> I've never done that much with makefile
[02:15] <cbx33> they seem pretty massive
[02:15] <cbx33> what does all that do - in the artwork sense
[02:15] <cbx33> there is nothing to be compiled is ther?
[02:15] <ogra> dont worry about makefiles, the postinst and other debhelper scripts are what you want to look at
[02:16] <ogra> the makefiles are only for make install :)
[02:17] <rodarvus> ogra: what is the approval policy for edubuntu-testers?
[02:18] <ogra> rodarvus, there is none ... if someone wants to help testing he's free to join :)
[02:18] <rodarvus> *nods* :)
[02:18] <ogra> or she fwiw
[02:18] <rodarvus> I'll approve Alfredo Baeza, then
[02:18] <ogra> go ahead :)
[02:19] <ogra> btw there are new isos up for testing in case anyone wants to :)
[02:19] <cbx33> ogra: ok cool
[02:19] <ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/20060718.1/
[02:19] <ogra> live is still broken due to a breakage in the build system
[02:20] <cbx33> I'm still in development mode
[02:20] <rodarvus> my adsl is still not upgraded, and thus, too slow to meaningfully test intaller right now :/
[02:20] <rodarvus> hopefully, by tomorrow, at most, it will be upgraded already
[02:21] <cbx33> looks pretty straight forward ogra, thanks for the help
[02:24] <cbx33> ogra: can i ask why the gconf files are not i nthe source?
[02:24] <EmxBA> when are we going to have a meeting? did susane (hedgemage) figured it out?
[02:24] <ogra> cbx33, ??
[02:24] <cbx33> the gconf folder in debian
[02:25] <cbx33> sets up the themes, I presume
[02:26] <cbx33> I just wondered why they weren't in the source, instead of being in debian/
[02:26] <ogra> well, they could be anywhere ... my lazyness i guess 
[02:27] <ogra> they are covereddebian/edubuntu-artwork.install
[02:27] <ogra> grmbl
[02:27] <ogra> they are covered in debian/edubuntu-artwork.install
[02:28] <EmxBA> anyone? have you agreed for the meeting?
[02:28] <ogra> EmxBA, if there is a meeting it will be on the fridge calendar
[02:30] <cbx33> sorry ogra 
[02:30] <cbx33> you know I'm a little new to packaging
[02:30] <EmxBA> ok, I just thought you agreed something :) ok, I'll look at the calendar
[02:35] <cbx33> so ogra do you use cdbs?
[02:36] <ogra> the package already used it when i copied it from ubuntu-artwork 
[02:36] <cbx33> ok
[02:37] <cbx33> that's cool
[02:37] <cbx33> I just need to read up on it that's all
[02:37] <cbx33> essentially all that needs doing is for the files to be copied to their correct locations and use dpkg-alternatives in the right places
[02:37] <cbx33> am i right?
[02:38] <ogra> no
[02:39] <ogra> only where the packages use alternatives ...
[02:39] <cbx33> well yes
[02:39] <cbx33> you know what I meant
[02:40] <ogra> well there are only three paces where alternatives are used ... and even these should go away ...
[02:40] <cbx33> really?
[02:40] <ogra> alternatives should be used to link to different binaries
[02:40] <cbx33> are we moving away from alternatives?
[02:40] <cbx33> ah i see
[02:40] <ogra> not to shuffle files between packages 
[02:40] <cbx33> yes I agree on that point
[02:41] <ogra> but its the best system atm
[02:41] <cbx33> so what happens in the case where there isn't an alternatvies in use?
[02:41] <cbx33> like in usplash
[02:41] <cbx33> oh sorry
[02:41] <cbx33> that uses one
[02:42] <cbx33> oh nevermind, I need to have a sit down and a play
[02:45] <cbx33> most of it I understand
[03:44] <highvoltage> heh, there's an edubuntu user that's worse than me when it comes to multiple desktops :)
[03:44] <highvoltage> http://www.itiopi.com/yafsug/projectz-edubuntu-upgrade.php
[03:59] <jsgotangco> meh richard is away :/
[04:00] <jsgotangco> i needed to talk to him oh well
[04:16] <RichEd> jsgotangco: i'm back (in arnie voice)
[04:17] <jsgotangco> lol
[04:18] <jsgotangco> i need to consult something to you edubuntu-deployment related you got time?
[04:18] <RichEd> sure ... here or in pvt window ?
[04:18] <jsgotangco> let's do it in pvt
[04:18] <jsgotangco> since its not yet finalized
[04:21] <cbx33> eI am seriously losing the will to live here
[04:23] <jsgotangco> hmm? don't lose heart!
[04:27] <cbx33> seriously, the smell in this office is awful
[04:28] <cbx33> and they want to move us to another office
[04:28] <cbx33> with no airflow
[04:28] <cbx33> and no windows
[04:28] <cbx33> and inadequate lighting
[04:28] <jsgotangco> you're in a better position at the moment compared to a school teacher in beirut
[04:29] <cbx33> true
[04:31] <rodarvus> cbx33: if you live in the US, you are probably in a better position than most school teachers of the planet :)
[04:32] <cbx33> I'm an IT manager
[04:32] <cbx33> I sit in this office all day
[04:32] <cbx33> everyday
[04:32] <cbx33> it is affecting my health
[04:32] <jsgotangco> sideways? =)
[04:40] <highvoltage> oh no. cbx33 left. just as i was about to tell him that no windows is a good thing!
[04:47] <jsgotangco> haha
[05:15] <Lord_Athur> I was trying to validate my OpenPGP key, the launchpad page says that I'd have to descrypt a msn with my key in order to validate, how do I do it? No one answers in other channels :(
[05:17] <rodarvus> Lord_Athur: you have to sign the Code of Conduct, and upload it to the CoC page
[05:17] <rodarvus> save the code of conduct to a txt file
[05:18] <rodarvus> gpg --sign file.txt
[05:18] <rodarvus> this will output the signed version of this file
[05:18] <rodarvus> cut and paste this into the input box, on the code of conduct page
[05:20] <Lord_Athur> ok thanks
[05:23] <jsgotangco> rodarvus!
[05:24] <rodarvus> jsgotangco!
[05:25] <jsgotangco> :D
[06:13] <LaserJock> highvoltage: totally, no windows is awesome
[06:14] <LaserJock> when I first started grad school I went 2 weeks withought seeing natural light :-)
[06:14] <LaserJock> *without
[06:23] <jsgotangco> eww
[06:26] <LaserJock> bah, the sun is highly overrated ;-)
[06:29] <LaserJock> the thing is, it's supposed to be 40C today and it's just to hot to enjoy the sun
[06:40] <LaserJock> bah, it's also 10% humidity here :/
[06:45] <jsgotangco> dude don't complain about humidity because i live in a tropical place :/
[06:45] <jsgotangco> hehe
[06:46] <LaserJock> if only we could merge the weather source packages ;-)
[06:47] <jsgotangco> Relative Humidity (%): 87,
[06:47] <jsgotangco> Pressure (mB): 1010, Rising,
[06:52] <RichEd> jsgotangco: check pvt window :)
[06:55] <jsgotangco> hmm?
[06:57] <jsgotangco> RichEd: yes?
[06:59] <RichEd> done ... was talking about the last comment in the pvt
[07:00] <jsgotangco> ahh
[07:06] <jsgotangco> RichEd: ahh i got your email thanks im going to sleep now see you
[07:07] <RichEd> sleep well ... no volcanos ... no big waves ...
[07:08] <LaserJock> lol
[07:18] <RichEd> bye all ...
[08:09] <cbx33> evenin all
[08:09] <cbx33> hi LaserJock 
[08:09] <highvoltage> hi cbx33 
[08:09] <highvoltage> feeling better?
[08:09] <cbx33> hey highvoltage 
[08:09] <cbx33> if by better you mean the same...then yes :p
[08:09] <highvoltage> :/
[08:09] <cbx33> I'm ok, just work really really getting me down
[08:09] <LaserJock> hi cbx33 
[08:09] <cbx33> I'm here, it's the evening, work is in the distance...and I'm working on ubuntu
[08:10] <cbx33> what could be better
[08:10] <highvoltage> cbx33: the universe has a tendency to balance things out.
[08:10] <cbx33> indeed
[08:10] <highvoltage> cbx33: all you need is a little more patience
[08:10] <cbx33> I suppose that's why I could never work for ubuntu :p
[08:10] <cbx33> heheh
[08:10] <cbx33> yup
[08:20] <cbx33> ping ogra 
[08:20] <cbx33> you busy dude?
[09:42] <ogra> cbx33, yes, a bit (obviously) :) whats up ?
[09:42] <cbx33> um
[09:42] <cbx33> I think I've figured out a lot with the artowrk package
[09:42] <ogra> thast great
[09:42] <ogra> *thats
[09:42] <cbx33> I just need some help with gconf?
[09:42] <cbx33> what do those files do?
[09:42] <ogra> wel, thats the essential part :)
[09:42] <cbx33> heheh
[09:43] <cbx33> i thought perhaps it might be
[09:43] <ogra> the other stuff is just copying pictures 
[09:43] <cbx33> I spoke a lot with dholbach today about the artwork pacakge
[09:43] <cbx33> he's thinking of splitting the pacakge up
[09:43] <ogra> they are two totally different things
[09:43] <cbx33> the ubuntu one
[09:43] <ogra> we dont use the ubuntu one at all
[09:43] <cbx33> no i know
[09:43] <cbx33> well,
[09:43] <cbx33> I know the files and locations for most of it now
[09:44] <cbx33> I guess I just need a hand with how the gconf stuff works
[09:44] <cbx33> and what I need to do after installing the files
[09:46] <ogra> nothing
[09:46] <ogra> you just need to install the files
[09:46] <ogra> look inside the debian/gconf/{default,young,plain} files
[09:47] <ogra> they are just lists with gconf keys and values
[09:47] <cbx33> how does it make all those changes active to meta city etc
[09:48] <ogra> in /usr/share/gconf/defaults/ there is a priority system ...
[09:48] <ogra> the highest number there counts ... by default all system files have priority 10
[09:48] <ogra> edubuntu uses 20
[09:48] <ogra> thats all the magic we use theres
[09:49] <ogra> -s
[09:49] <cbx33> ok cool
[09:49] <cbx33> how difficult is it to change the usplash text colour?
[09:50] <ogra> you need t be a good artist :P
[09:50] <ogra> the color is pulled from the indexed image
[09:50] <ogra> dont ask me which of the index colors it is
[09:50] <ogra> there are some wikipages about that
[09:53] <cbx33> ah right cool
[09:54] <cbx33> the 20-edubutnu file is a symlink right?
[09:54] <ogra> yep
[09:55] <cbx33> and that sits in the edubuntu fold in usr/share
[09:55] <cbx33> ok
[09:55] <cbx33> last question
[09:55] <cbx33> about hte gtk-rc thingy
[09:55] <cbx33> how does that work?
[09:56] <ogra> cn you be a bit more specific ? 
[09:56] <cbx33> what does it do?
[09:57] <ogra> it defines the theme 
[09:57] <cbx33> ah ok
[09:57] <ogra> colors, gtk engine ...
[09:58] <cbx33> ok i see
[09:58] <ogra> its a plain xml file ... very easy to understand and change ...
[09:58] <cbx33> yup i see
[09:58] <cbx33> thank you for all your help ogra 
[09:59] <cbx33> development begins tomorrow
[09:59] <cbx33> :)
[09:59] <ogra> :)
[09:59] <cbx33> nn all
[09:59] <cbx33> tiem for some ps2 attention :p
[10:09] <highvoltage> night cbx33 
[10:10] <highvoltage> cbx33: i see you asked about the usplash images, i've grown quite fond of splashy, you can find it from debian, it's much nicer than usplash
[10:53] <cbx33> highvoltage, what does it do?
[10:55] <ogra> cbx33, its debians fork of usplash
[10:55] <ogra> sadly doesnt work with hibernate
[10:58] <Burgwork> ogra, isn't splashy older than usplash?
[10:58] <ogra> nope
[10:59] <ogra> usplash was there long before, but not used for 1 or 2 releases ...
[10:59] <ogra> then development started simultaneously on both of them ...
[11:00] <ogra> (there was a usplash binary in harys universe already iirc)
[11:00] <ogra> *hoarys
[11:00] <cbx33> ah 
[11:01] <ogra> but as i said, splashy is no option for us
[11:01] <cbx33> nope
[11:01] <cbx33> i see there is a process on the png to turn it into bogl?
[11:01] <ogra> usplash has planned enhancements (16bit color support etc)
[11:01] <cbx33> nice
[11:01] <ogra> yep
[11:01] <cbx33> what's the .o and .c files about?
[11:02] <ogra> but you dont need to care about bogl ... thats done during package build
[11:02] <cbx33> yes, but I'm making my own package
[11:02] <ogra> just make a png that fits and put it into place
[11:02] <ogra> that wont work
[11:02] <ogra> you need the usplash source package around ...
[11:02] <cbx33> ok cool
[11:02] <ogra> well, it would work but would be pointless
[11:03] <cbx33> what's different about edubuntu-artowrk?
[11:03] <ogra> nothing ? 
[11:04] <cbx33> where does it get the usplash source fomr?
[11:05] <ogra> libbogl-dev,
[11:05] <ogra> look at the package 
[11:05] <ogra> its all in there
[11:05] <cbx33> ah yes i see it
[11:06] <cbx33> so can i just use that as a dependency in mine?
[11:06] <ogra> sure
[11:06] <cbx33> i don't really understand how the package is built using the makefiles
[11:06] <ogra> but make sure to use the same code to build the usplash pic
[11:06] <cbx33> iwas goign to do it all with installs
[11:06] <cbx33> ok
[11:09] <cbx33> and I know you don;t have the time to explain it all to me, which is cool, so I was going to do it in a way I understand?
[11:09] <cbx33> is that ok?
[11:09] <ogra> sure
[11:09] <cbx33> thanks ogra 
[11:10] <cbx33> then I'll only have to bug you for a few things
[11:10] <ogra> i didnt do the usplash part of edubuntu-artwork so its not easy for me to comment without lookin into it ...
[11:10] <cbx33> ok
[11:11] <cbx33> nn all
[11:41] <linuxgoober> I got my 2 sisters a computer 9 and 12 and am considering Edubuntu, SuSE, Kubuntu, and Mepis how does Edubuntu Compare to Ubuntu and Kubuntu
[11:42] <ogra> it has a lot more stuff for children ... gcompris, some kde educational apps, tux4kids ... 
[11:42] <ogra> it has also more colorful artwork included
[11:43] <linuxgoober> so its the type of operating system that kids like
[11:43] <ogra> thats what its aimd to ... 
[11:43] <ogra> teachers and kids ...
[11:43] <linuxgoober> ok...
[11:44] <linuxgoober> Is it as easy to use as ubuntu? I want them to learn to do it without my help?
[11:44] <ogra> if you use it at home, make sure to select the workstation install 
[11:44] <linuxgoober> ok
[11:44] <ogra> apart from that its the same as ubuntu it just ooks a bit different and has more apps
[11:44] <ogra> *looks
[11:45] <ogra> http://www.edubuntu.org/screenshots
[11:45] <linuxgoober> ok sounds good... am gonna download it.. will probably dual boot it with Mepis, their current OS of choice. They really like the screen shots