[12:05] <Who_> well, I have another holiday soon :S I'll get all I can done now...
[12:05] <troy_s> also...
[12:05] <troy_s> if you can ship me the layers in xcf that would help -- i can bang out some compositional variants
[12:05] <troy_s> so that we get a good contact sheet up
[12:07] <Who_> the xcf is 10.8 mb atm
[12:07] <troy_s> how about shipping this:
[12:07] <troy_s> a) the logo with your primary gloss pass in transparent png format sole
[12:07] <troy_s> b) some of the mock ups (at say, 640x480 jpg)
[12:08] <troy_s> i have your logo already, which i used for bumping the mocks out of the gdm
[12:08] <troy_s> erm
[12:08] <troy_s> lsplash
[12:08] <troy_s> as you can see.
[12:08] <troy_s> the light grey will be completely transparent
[12:08] <troy_s> the white pill will be treated with the same 'design' that we arrive at
[12:08] <troy_s> you get the idea i am sure.
[12:09] <troy_s> Who_, are you using a linear gradient to get that gloss?
[12:09] <troy_s> Who_, because it appears to conform to the stroke line
[12:10] <Who_> troy_s: Which gloss do you mean?
[12:10] <troy_s> say on the logo
[12:10] <troy_s> see the sweeping 's' wave?
[12:10] <troy_s> that goes from transparent to white?
[12:11] <troy_s> Who_, ?
[12:12] <troy_s> also:  kick up the gradients a bit... notice how mysterious the gradient is for default dapper?  head that way with a few mocks.
[12:12] <Who_> I can't go fast enough!!! ;)
[12:12] <troy_s> Who_, and if you get them to me on a wiki or something, i can contact them all and announce the progress.
[12:13] <Who_> Will do
[12:13] <kwwii> so here is what I worked on this evening: http://bootsplash.org/test-edgy.png
[12:13] <troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/EdgyProposals/WallpaperProposal?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=wallpaper_weidel_metalbrown.png
[12:13] <kwwii> it still needs some work, but it is coming right along, I think
[12:13] <kwwii> and it uses the new official colors
[12:13] <troy_s> very slick kwwii
[12:14] <troy_s> do you have some variations?
[12:14] <Who_> cool
[12:14] <troy_s> kwwii:  i would love to see the curve gloss applied to the kubuntu logo
[12:14] <troy_s> it looks very good.
[12:14] <Who_> A little suggestion: enhance the gap between the heads and the 'bodies'
[12:14] <troy_s> variations :)
[12:14] <troy_s> variations are very useful
[12:15] <mhb> kwwii: looks nice
[12:15] <troy_s> ideally you get 20 or so banged out around a given thematic
[12:15] <troy_s> who
[12:15] <troy_s> did you get that image?  that's weidel's and i think he has some curves that you might be able to work with
[12:15] <troy_s> to get a good gloss feel.
[12:16] <mhb> kwwii: can you post the SVG version ?
[12:16] <troy_s> Who_, here are some more good curves to try:  http://sensitivelight.com/smoke2/
[12:16] <kwwii> troy_s: I did a proposal for a curved gloss on the logo for dapper, but it fell through
[12:16] <kwwii> mhb: sure, one second
[12:16] <troy_s> http://sensitivelight.com/smoke2/?image=5
[12:16] <troy_s> no
[12:17] <Who_> troy_s: do you know how these are made!? theya re great
[12:17] <troy_s> that ponder was just for textural references... believe me ... the whole point of the exercise is to get the bloody folks to comment
[12:17] <troy_s> and steer development
[12:17] <kwwii> colored smoke, some killer shit
[12:17] <troy_s> so we don't get caught in a glut at the end.
[12:18] <troy_s> http://sensitivelight.com/smoke2/?image=15
[12:18] <troy_s> take the curves
[12:18] <troy_s> gloss them
[12:18] <troy_s> simplify .
[12:18] <troy_s> just use them as loose basis.
[12:18] <kwwii> also very nifty
[12:20] <troy_s> http://picture.sensitivelight.com/smoke2/18.jpg
[12:20] <troy_s> anyways... you get the idea.
[12:20] <troy_s> i think those are distinct enough for curves
[12:20] <troy_s> and we can gloss them relatively easily.
[12:21] <Who_> you are suggesting using the shapes as curves for gloss - I.E for the shape of the 'highlight' on the logo?
[12:21] <kwwii> mhb: http://bootsplash.org/edgy_logo_idea1.svg
[12:24] <mhb> kwwii: thank you very much
[12:24] <kwwii> no problem, I think I will post it on the wiki as well :D
[12:26] <kwwii> Who_: should I add your bubble bg to that wiki page for kubuntu?
[12:26] <Who_> Oh, sorry - I am doing the GDM things still!
[12:26] <Who_> I'll do it now :)
[12:27] <kwwii> hehe
[12:27] <kwwii> no hurry, just wanted to be of assistance
[12:27] <troy_s> just posted to the list
[12:27] <troy_s> so let's keep me updated so i can collate the items
[12:29] <kwwii> Who_: not that I want to be stupid, but is that BG taken from the fedora bg (only scaled in really far)?
[12:29] <Who_> my one?
[12:30] <Who_> kwwii: Wallpaper, GDM, all of it is original in work but obviously not in ideas
[12:30] <kwwii> yeah, sorry to ask such a stupid question, but it occured, and you never know
[12:30] <Who_> which one where you meaning, out of interest?
[12:30] <kwwii> no, I mean the bubble wallpaper
[12:30] <troy_s> spheres
[12:31] <Who_> :P That was done ages ago... just hung about a bit until now...
[12:31] <troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/BrownBubbles
[12:31] <troy_s> that one i think he means
[12:32] <troy_s> great work though who_
[12:32] <kwwii> yes, only the blue version from kde-look.org
[12:32] <kwwii> it rocks
[12:32] <troy_s> top notch... and hopefully we can get enough variations out to stimulate a little cross-polination
[12:32] <troy_s> have you seen jmaks new gloss logo?
[12:32] <kwwii> I would suggest some improvements, but all in all it is an interesting idea to follow
[12:33] <kwwii> nope, link?
[12:33] <troy_s> of course... the point is to not steer the boat too far just yet...
[12:33] <troy_s> hold on.
[12:33] <mhb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/XubuntuEdgy/Proposals
[12:33] <troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/XubuntuEdgy/Proposals
[12:33] <mhb> troy_s: sorry for doing it first
[12:34] <kwwii> hehe, I dig the ubuntu logo
[12:35] <kwwii> the last one is best, because it does not have such freaky 3D-ness
[12:35] <kwwii> it seems like glass
[12:35] <kwwii> I kinda stole the idea of the curved highlight in the kubuntu logo I posted before from that pic actually
[12:35] <troy_s> mhb You are too fast damn you
[12:36] <troy_s> kwwii -- well davinci, picasso, and a plethora of other artists subjected their work to peer review.
[12:36] <troy_s> kwwii -- it's the nature of the beast.
[12:37] <troy_s> further, we get a certain similarity if this happens naturally, which i think is terrific.
[12:38] <kwwii> troy_s: to be honest, I am honest enough to admit that nothing we do is new....music is the same way, all arts are, I guess
[12:39] <kwwii> the idea is that we should all be playing in the same chord :-)
[12:39] <troy_s> bingo
[12:39] <kwwii> so that ideas from one can also apply to the other
[12:39] <kwwii> which is pretty much the case
[12:39] <troy_s> absolutely... and we are making very good progress
[12:39] <kwwii> it is amazing for me, as kde artist
[12:39] <kwwii> normally, everything we do is way to playfull and contrasty
[12:39] <troy_s> i had to nag sabdfl to get some feedback, but it was important
[12:40] <troy_s> well contrast is technically a polish / produce defined element.
[12:40] <troy_s> not worth getting too caught up so early.
[12:40] <kwwii> while here we have the same design ideas, with different color/saturation usage and things are still really close
[12:40] <troy_s> yep... and during that final polish
[12:40] <troy_s> the pushers
[12:40] <troy_s> can tweak the finals
[12:40] <kwwii> the ideas behind it are still more important than the implementation
[12:40] <troy_s> into a very similar ballpark if it is warranted
[12:41] <troy_s> absolutely!
[12:41] <troy_s> again, the only glaring hole right now
[12:41] <troy_s> although Who_ made some good progress
[12:41] <kwwii> now if someone would brainwash me into loving wiki writing kubuntu would be on course too
[12:41] <troy_s> is getting the 'larger' gloss look so that we can interpolate across the lsplash etc background
[12:41] <troy_s> wiki writing is pretty darn useful... and it has some pretty damn powerful macros
[12:42] <troy_s> lol
[12:42] <troy_s> kwwii -- if you can churn out the work for the variations, i'll happily imagemagick it all
[12:42] <troy_s> but we need a good deal of quantity
[12:42] <troy_s> in the mocks
[12:42] <troy_s> and just so you know, i target a tile geometry of 260 for the contacts
[12:42] <troy_s> so don't worry about too high res.
[12:42] <kwwii> yeah, I promised mhb I would start it tomorrow
[12:42] <troy_s> they scale quite nicely.
[12:42] <kwwii> I just need to put all the pieces together that I have so far
[12:43] <troy_s> just ship me links
[12:43] <kwwii> and let others add to that
[12:43] <troy_s> i will at least get the contact sheet out
[12:43] <troy_s> and that helps others.
[12:43] <kwwii> ok, deal
[12:43] <troy_s> great
[12:43] <kwwii> I will send you links tomorrow to everything
[12:43] <troy_s> i am very impressed with the talent level of the folks who are already around here.
[12:43] <kwwii> I am ready for bed now
[12:43] <Who_> troy - I'm about to upload 5 variations of the glassy gdm. How do you want them?
[12:43] <troy_s> there is certainly a large enough pool with diverse enough skill sets to get a good deal accomplished.
[12:44] <troy_s> email me a link
[12:44] <troy_s> put a private wiki page up
[12:44] <troy_s> and email me the link
[12:44] <troy_s> i'll contact everything into an organized fashion
[12:44] <kwwii> me too, things are working out really well, in a totally new cross-desktop kinda way
[12:44] <troy_s> kwwii -- the biggest stumbling block
[12:44] <troy_s> was getting the powers that be to start 'snooping' in on the development process
[12:44] <kwwii> troy_s: I agree, but here it seems to be no problem at all
[12:44] <troy_s> which is why having it transparent with deadlines and such is very important.
[12:45] <kwwii> I mean, the people who want to do things do things, and it has little to do with arguing, etc.
[12:45] <troy_s> hopefully if the teams deliver, the next phase will buy us some flexibility etc.
[12:45] <kwwii> yepp
[12:45] <troy_s> i would say that we got lucky and
[12:45] <troy_s> sabdfl gave some good feedback
[12:45] <troy_s> (after some prodding)
[12:45] <troy_s> which helps me to get a clearer picture of where he would like to see the shape go.
[12:46] <troy_s> because he DOES have an idea, but not much vocabulary to explain it in a useful way to artists.
[12:46] <kwwii> hehe
[12:46] <kwwii> I could have told you he would say that
[12:46] <kwwii> I have a pretty good idea of what he wants
[12:46] <kwwii> he definitely has a vision
[12:47] <troy_s> well i had a pretty good idea too... but sometimes you need to get the absolute rule.
[12:47] <troy_s> and that means getting several things on the table up front
[12:47] <troy_s> so that he can go 'yay nay nay yay nay' etc
[12:47] <troy_s> which was a missing step
[12:47] <troy_s> again why i am deadset against overpolishing.
[12:47] <kwwii> I guess the fact that I met him once before you did
[12:47] <troy_s> spit it out, steer the boat.
[12:47] <kwwii> yepp, "just do it"
[12:48] <troy_s> further, the stuff that is pouring in now is getting more and more refined, which is very good.
[12:48] <troy_s> it isn't completely scattered like a hand grenade.
[12:48] <kwwii> I have found that we often ask too many questions of "those in charge" and should instead think of what they want to get out of all of this, and try to satisify that in the best way we can
[12:49] <kwwii> if we do it well enough, we loose, if we pull it off, we as a community get to do what we want
[12:49] <troy_s> exactly
[12:50] <troy_s> but the trick here is appeasing that one fellow who hasn't given us a distinct wiki page for direcitonality.
[12:50] <troy_s> :)
[12:50] <troy_s> we are building it as we go, so it is helping.
[12:50] <kwwii> well, appeasing the guy who is paying a lot of money for us to make this possible
[12:50] <troy_s> exactly
[12:50] <troy_s> el bingo
[12:50] <kwwii> his vision is not that narrow
[12:50] <kwwii> it just very good
[12:50] <kwwii> and he knows when something is "right"
[12:50] <kwwii> so let's give him that
[12:51] <troy_s> no, but if we can deliver up to expectations, we can probably expand the genre in the future.
[12:51] <kwwii> the fact that he checks in all the time on the list shows his interest
[12:51] <troy_s> well whether or not everyone sees it as right is irrelevant :)
[12:51] <kwwii> I am sure he has a thousand other things to do
[12:51] <troy_s> yep... immensly busy
[12:52] <kwwii> anyway...about time for bed
[12:53] <mhb> kwwii: goodnight
[12:53] <troy_s> okie
[12:53] <troy_s> get me those damn links soon kwwii
[12:53] <troy_s> and bang out variations
[12:53] <troy_s> if you have layers
[12:53] <kwwii> I will do it first thing tomorrow
[12:53] <troy_s> and can offer up a distinct set of variations
[12:53] <troy_s> great.
[12:53] <troy_s> thanks a million
[12:53] <troy_s> oh look... i just got mail from viper
[12:53] <troy_s> and tropic
[12:54] <troy_s> i don't think that he realizes a proposal is generally something that you have done
[12:54] <kwwii> :-)
[12:54] <troy_s> :)
[12:55] <kwwii> night man, see you tomorrow (with links, of course)
[12:55] <kwwii> guess I will add Who_'s wallpaper to the wiki and pass out
[12:56] <Who_> I'm just doing it :P
[12:56] <kwwii> whether he likes it or not! :-)
[12:56] <kwwii> hehe
[12:56] <kwwii> I tried to sound threatening
[12:56] <troy_s> who_ squeeze out as many variations as you can okie?
[12:56] <Who_> literally - the page is in my browser
[12:56] <kwwii> if you post the svg I can play with it as well
[12:56] <Who_> of the blue bubbles - I will post the ones i have, but they are _all_ worse than the final
[12:56] <kwwii> I have a good idea (I think)
[12:57] <Who_> unfortunately the bubbles is a _terrible_ xcf - the whole thing is only 5 layers or so :S
[12:57] <kwwii> don't worry about it being final
[12:57] <kwwii> that is not the point, at this stag
[12:57] <kwwii> stage
[12:57] <troy_s> who_ loosen up bro...
[12:57] <troy_s> :)
[12:57] <troy_s> don't sweat the small details.  anyone with any level of maturity should be able to spot the direction and build on it.
[12:58] <kwwii> to be honest, I think it has too much contrast now, but I honestly think that with a bit of work it could be *the* bg for kubuntu
[12:59] <kwwii> but then again, that is just what i think...if you post it, everyone can say what they think about it and we will get much further
[01:00] <Who_> I'm just looking back at the variations I have
[01:00] <Who_> how big is too big for a wiki attachment?
[01:00] <troy_s> need linsk whosy
[01:00] <troy_s> well neil put 7 megs of ubuntu gloss up
[01:00] <troy_s> in a tarball
[01:00] <troy_s> so...
[01:01] <troy_s> but all i really need are a series in the 640 width zone
[01:01] <troy_s> or 500 even
[01:01] <mhb> kwwii: I think we should get more different proposals for *the* bg
[01:01] <mhb> kwwii: or rather - some different proposals, a lot more variations
[01:02] <troy_s> mhb:  variations are key.
[01:03] <kwwii> mhb: of course...one of the pics I will post tomorrow is an updated version of the last official kde bg
[01:03] <mhb> troy_s: I got it ... believe it or not, I'm reading your conversation and trying to get the best of it :o)
[01:03] <kwwii> not sure if that design is best, but it is worth thinking about
[01:05] <kwwii> the idea at this stage is to collect ideas and think about the future
[01:05] <Who_> kwwii: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/EdgyProposals/KubuntuWallpaperProposals
[01:05] <kwwii> not have the final ultimate shit
[01:05] <Who_> I'm just sending a mail to the list
[01:06] <kwwii> erm, sure the spelling is correct?
[01:07] <Who_> spelling where?
[01:07] <Who_> it probably isn't!
[01:07] <Who_> ohh, sorry kwwii - try now (that wonderful little think - the save page button :P)
[01:08] <kwwii> hehe
[01:08] <kwwii> thanks a lot
[01:08] <kwwii> I really appreciate it
[01:08] <Who_> and troy_s: just for you :P https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/EdgyProposals/GDMProposal
[01:08] <Who_> I like the bottom one best
[01:09] <troy_s> thanks
[01:10] <troy_s> i like the ones with the extra variations of sweep lines
[01:10] <troy_s> they look more complex
[01:11] <troy_s> personally, it would be nice to see some with the same technique across the pill (with gloss)
[01:11] <troy_s> and different lines against background
[01:11] <troy_s> with me?
[01:11] <troy_s> offer a little contrast in the content?
[01:11] <mhb> kwwii: I'm comparing your new logo with the old one
[01:12] <troy_s> the fourth one is nice Who_ in terms of tonal gradients...
[01:12] <mhb> kwwii: it's so much better I can't believe my eyes :o)
[01:12] <Who_> troy_s: they use the 'brown bubbles' wallpaper with a heft motion blur :P
[01:12] <troy_s> yah i see that...
[01:13] <troy_s> i am actually pretty content with the lines alone, but perhaps with greater gradients to give that contrast...
[01:13] <troy_s> also try to distribute your centers of gravity
[01:13] <troy_s> notice how all the lines are flowing towards the middle?  even compositional distribution would provide another great variant.
[01:13] <Who_> I'm not quite clear exactly what you are suggesting - making the white glassy bit more varied, adding some lines to it, or enchancing the BG a bit?
[01:14] <Who_> right, will have a play
[01:14] <troy_s> Who_, A) the pill - the area where the logon render drops -- alter the lines so that they are different than the background lines
[01:14] <troy_s> so that it looks 'on top of'
[01:14] <troy_s> B) try some without the background blur, but keep the brown tones and use those as a gradient from a slightly more complicated lining technique
[01:14] <troy_s> C) Compositionally distribute your line sweeps
[01:15] <troy_s> that should give you a good variety in a short period of time.
[01:15] <troy_s> D) in inkscape you can stroke the lines with a gradient -- you might want to experiment with that too... it is a very good effect
[01:16] <troy_s> and you might want to try perhaps making the logo and text exceed the pill as per some of the mockups... they can offer good compositional variants... if you give me the layers, i can fart with the compositional end of things.
[01:17] <Who_> yea, I'm just packaging up an XCF.bz2
[01:17] <troy_s> damn fine work though who_
[01:17] <kwwii> troy_s: I will include some of the stuff I made for dapper in my links
[01:17] <troy_s> absolutely
[01:17] <troy_s> i just really want to get some good look feels out there in a cohesive and easily scannable package
[01:18] <troy_s> not massive bitmaps to scroll past.
[01:19] <troy_s> who do you do all your work with gimp?
[01:21] <Who_> troy_s: No - I very rarely use it - tonight for those GDM things is the first time in about a year. I much prefer Inkscape normall, hence the svg glassy font and logo and all the other stuff being SVG. There are just some things that I think it is easier to do in raster no vector - like drop shadows and nice rounded gradients
[01:22] <troy_s> Who_, are those linear grads?
[01:23] <Who_> no, they are strange things got by Guassian blurring a rounded rectangle or a rounded 'hole' (I.E transparent rounded rect on a white BG) and then chopping out the inverse of the shape
[01:24] <troy_s> whoa... go again?
[01:24] <troy_s> the swoops?
[01:25] <Who_> in order to get the drop shadows I made the shape of the 'pill', filled it black, deselected all and blurred it. I then reselected the original shape (I had saved the selection to a path) and cleared the middle so that the black was only around the edge.
[01:26] <troy_s> not so much the drop... the scripts do drops well enough
[01:26] <troy_s> but the swoop grads
[01:26] <troy_s> seem to almost contour to the sweeping line
[01:26] <Who_> swoop!? I made a swoop?
[01:26] <troy_s> i still have yet to find an efficient way to do that
[01:26] <troy_s> the lines crossing the gdm mocks
[01:26] <troy_s> the slightly curved lines
[01:27] <Who_> the dark brown ones?
[01:27] <troy_s> for example, in the logo you have a white translucent 'gloss' right?
[01:27] <troy_s> that contours to a sweepy curved line
[01:27] <troy_s> is that a linear grad up to the selection curve?
[01:27] <troy_s> or is it more contoured?
[01:27] <Who_> no, it is not even a gradient :P
[01:28] <troy_s> ah.
[01:28] <troy_s> you should try to gloss those up with the same white curves
[01:28] <troy_s> might be a direction worth pursuing...
[01:28] <Who_> a bit like the text and logo....
[01:28] <Who_> I have too many directions in my head right now - it's mifnight and I'm sure I ought to eat some dinner :P
[01:28] <troy_s> lol
[01:28] <troy_s> ok... bang em out
[01:29] <troy_s> send me the link
[01:29] <troy_s> i'll contact all of the stuff and post to the list with a nice easily scannable page.
[01:29] <troy_s> thanks again whosie
[01:31] <Who_> hehe - my computer doesn't like having this many large images open - things are slooooowwwing down
[01:32] <troy_s> dual core 4 gigs of ram here :)
[01:32] <troy_s> 64bit
[01:33] <Who_> 512mb on an AthlonXP 1900 :P not quite the same...
[01:37] <Who_> kwwii: are you actively working on the oxygen icons?
[01:39] <mhb> he seems to have fallen asleep :o)
[01:40] <mhb> Who_: (I think) he does ... it's written over here (http://www.oxygen-icons.org/?cat=2) and he has some icons in his SVN/ directory
[01:41] <Who_> for anyone interested - I just added the XCF to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/EdgyProposals/GDMProposal - troy_s: some fun for you
[01:46] <kwwii> Who_: yepp, I am one of the three Oxygen artists
[01:46] <Who_> kwwii: cool - I really love some of the Oxygen icons :)
[01:47] <Who_> well, what I really mean is that I loved the previews I saw :P
[01:47] <kwwii> Who_: good to hear :-)
[01:47] <kwwii> check out the stuff we have in kde svn
[01:47] <Who_> Will they be available for Gnome and KDE?
[01:47] <kwwii> we put the whole svg theme there for now
[01:48] <kwwii> and a script to render them into pngs
[01:48] <kwwii> the artwork has a long way to go, and we have a lot of icons to make
[01:48] <kwwii> but you get the point from it
[01:48] <Who_> cool - I haven't every used KDE SVN - tonight isn't the night as it's already late - but I'll check them out soon
[01:49] <Who_> *every = ever
[01:49] <kwwii> websvn.kde.org if nothing else
[01:49] <kwwii> artwork module, Oxygen dir
[01:52] <kwwii> erm, even I cannot find it right now
[01:52] <kwwii> sorry
[01:52] <kwwii> I am ready for sleep
[01:52] <mhb> kwwii: the Oxygen icons?
[01:52] <kwwii> yepp
[01:52] <mhb> kwwii: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/playground/artwork/Oxygen/
[01:52] <kwwii> yes, thanks!
[01:53] <kwwii> and again night
[01:53] <mhb> the only address in KDE svn I know
[01:53] <kwwii> I really need sleep
[01:53] <kwwii> hehe
[01:53] <mhb> goodnight
[01:53] <kwwii> good!
[01:53] <kwwii> see you tomorrow
[02:01] <Who_> anyone know how I link to an attachment on another page on the wiki?
[02:25] <Who_> any opinions on the logo I just mailed to the list?
[02:26] <mhb> Who_: very nice
[02:26] <Who_> improvements?
[02:29] <mhb> Who_: Sorry, not from me at this late hour (2:28 here) :o)
[02:29] <Who_> I'm an hour behinf
[02:29] <Who_> *behind
[02:29] <Who_> and I'm off to bed
[02:29] <Who_> night all
[02:30] <mhb> Who_: goodnight
[02:30] <mhb> Who_: and thanks for all the good work
[02:31] <Who_> :) thanks
[10:37] <mhb> good morning
[10:38] <klepas> moin
[11:07] <mhb> troy_s: seems like you Artists are most active at night :o)
[05:41] <troy_s> or we are westies
[05:41] <troy_s> mhb :)
[05:45] <mhb> troy_s: most people I talked with were not
[05:45] <mhb> troy_s: at least yesterday :o)
[05:45] <troy_s> weird.
[05:45] <troy_s> night owls then
[05:50] <mhb> troy_s: you planned to put together the Kubuntu proposals from Ken, right?
[05:52] <troy_s> i will yes.
[05:52] <troy_s> i have found that it is hard for art folks to contribute when there isn't a guiding ruleset
[05:56] <mhb> troy_s: I wanted to read more about the artwork phases the other day, but couldn't find it ... could you please direct me?
[05:56] <troy_s> indeed...
[05:56] <troy_s> did you start at the root wiki?
[05:56] <troy_s> i believe it is under documents now
[05:56] <troy_s> wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation
[05:56] <troy_s> try that...
[05:57] <troy_s> or go to artwork and look for the subpage docu*
[05:57] <mhb> oh, yes
[05:57] <mhb> maybe it could be mentioned a bit more in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork, where I started
[05:58] <mhb> or maybe not ... I dunno
[05:59] <troy_s> probably could.
[05:59] <troy_s> our wiki-wizards are supposed to be on that.   mention it to klepas
[05:59] <troy_s> because bersace is on holiday right now.
[05:59] <troy_s> and klepas is the other half of our super team.
[06:00] <mhb> troy_s: ok :o)
[06:00] <troy_s> what is your background mhb?
[06:00] <mhb> troy_s: what do you mean?
[06:01] <mhb> troy_s: the wallpaper right now on my desktop? Or something else?
[06:03] <mhb> hi kwwii
[06:03] <kwwii> howdy
[06:08] <troy_s> kwwii
[06:08] <troy_s> kwwii i need inkscape help
[06:08] <troy_s> help me
[06:09] <kwwii> ok
[06:09] <kwwii> what do you need to know?
[06:10] <troy_s> ok... take a few spline curves
[06:10] <troy_s> and you create an intersecting shape of sorts...
[06:10] <troy_s> is there a way to have that new shape be recognized so that you can apply a fill to it?
[06:10] <troy_s> with me?
[06:11] <troy_s> sort of a raster hybrid operation
[06:11] <kwwii> you want to take, lets say two circles and overlap them, and then be able to make the space they both share a new shape?
[06:11] <troy_s> that is the idea yes...
[06:12] <troy_s> the union to be filled with a grad, or solid or what have you
[06:12] <troy_s> i tried group, but that didn't do much
[06:12] <kwwii> just copy both of them, and then go into the path menu and create a new object with a union
[06:12] <troy_s> ok so shift copy both
[06:12] <kwwii> copy and paste, I mean
[06:12] <troy_s> then paste as a new object?
[06:12] <kwwii> you still want the old shapes, I assume?
[06:13] <kwwii> if so, copy and paste them, and then make the new shape out of the copies (so you don't loose the old ones)
[06:13] <troy_s> well i don't mind
[06:13] <troy_s> is there a way to just take say, three splines and union them?
[06:13] <troy_s> then use fills on the overlapping areas?
[06:14] <kwwii> if they are not closed, I guess it will not create a new shape
[06:15] <kwwii> you can take three closed shapes and union them
[06:15] <troy_s> where is the union shape?
[06:15] <troy_s> erm
[06:15] <troy_s> tool
[06:15] <kwwii> but if you only want to create one gradient on all of them, make sure they have no fill, group them and then apply a gradient to the group
[06:15] <kwwii> Path-->Union
[06:16] <kwwii> you could also combine them
[06:16] <kwwii> Path-->Combine
[06:16] <troy_s> ok...
[06:16] <troy_s> so i tried union
[06:16] <mhb> troy_s: I think you can do that with the splines, too
[06:16] <troy_s> it no work for filly
[06:16] <troy_s> i shall try combine...
[06:17] <troy_s> well it kinda works but it takes the short path, not the union hole
[06:17] <kwwii> yeah
[06:17] <troy_s> imagine taking three splines and making a triangle...
[06:17] <troy_s> then you want to grad the triangle
[06:17] <kwwii> I wish I understood better what you are trying to do
[06:17] <troy_s> how the hell do you do that?
[06:18] <troy_s> so your triangle is bascially the intersection of three curvey splines (with tails that extend past the interior of the triangle -- it isn't a 'clean' set of three points with connectors -- the overlap area is 'triangle like')
[06:18] <kwwii> I guess that if none of the splines create a closed shape they cannot be combined in a way to have a fill
[06:18] <klepas> wish the two of a lovely day
[06:18] <klepas> cheers und tschuess ^^
[06:19] <troy_s> kwwii no the splines DO create a closed shape
[06:19] <troy_s> the splines start as curves -- no closed shape
[06:19] <troy_s> then the overlapped area forms a closed shape
[06:19] <kwwii> hehe, I just tried it with inkscape
[06:20] <troy_s> but i can't seem to get the stinker to close and fill
[06:20] <kwwii> union does not do anything what you think it should
[06:20] <troy_s> no... it takes the spline as a closed area
[06:20] <troy_s> meaning if it is an arc, it LINEAR closes the arc
[06:20] <troy_s> which isn't what i want.
[06:21] <kwwii> dude, I do not think you can do that with inkscape
[06:21] <kwwii> I honestly do not know how
[06:21] <kwwii> I guess it can only work with closed splines
[06:22] <troy_s> hrm... it seems pretty rudimentary...
[06:22] <troy_s> in #inkscape
[06:23] <kwwii> why not just close the splines and then do it?
[06:23] <troy_s> because i want the tails
[06:23] <kwwii> the only part you care about is the curves that make up the new object
[06:23] <troy_s> no, i want the tails
[06:23] <troy_s> its combine
[06:23] <troy_s> :)
[06:23] <troy_s> i think i am onto it...
[06:24] <troy_s> combine appears to be the proper path...
[06:24] <troy_s> fecking hell... close but no cigar
[06:25] <kwwii> :-)
[06:26] <troy_s> kerk balls
[06:27] <kwwii> btw. I have put together stuff for a wiki page for kubuntu ideas...it is a lot of different things though
[06:27] <troy_s> good
[06:27] <troy_s> http://www.inkscape.org/doc/shapes/shapes-f16.svg.png
[06:27] <troy_s> see that image
[06:28] <troy_s> the black and white alternating thing is what i want to accomplish (basically)
[06:28] <troy_s> but with open ended splines
[06:29] <kwwii> hehe
[06:29] <kwwii> good idea
[06:31] <troy_s> bugger
[06:48] <mhb> troy_s: do you really think there is a need for "keeping some emails down" ?
[06:48] <troy_s> in what respect
[06:49] <troy_s> yes.
[06:49] <troy_s> generally
[06:49] <mhb> troy_s: well it doesn't seem to be a good idea to me
[06:49] <troy_s> well i find the problem is that a lot of the email spins far off the beaten path
[06:50] <troy_s> and turns into a forum for people to voice off on their insecurities
[06:50] <troy_s> rather than steadfast art review (and review isn't easy, it is a craft like any other)
[06:53] <troy_s> and by some, i guess you worry about censorship
[06:54] <troy_s> i am a fan of keeping focus.  that, in my experience, has come to mean that at times you need to restrict what directions you take on certain issues.
[06:54] <troy_s> its the nature of focus -- some things focus, other things defocus.
[06:55] <mhb> troy_s: so you think some factors (people) on the list shouldn't comment so much?
[06:57] <troy_s> i think that question is probably rhetorical :)
[06:57] <troy_s> what is your opinion?
[06:57] <mhb> troy_s: I understand your point
[06:58] <mhb> troy_s: well, I personally join the ML and the team so I can watch the wonderful pieces of art and learn more about how they get created
[06:58] <troy_s> i think everyone should be free to voice
[06:58] <mhb> troy_s: and of course I want to help with everything I can do
[06:58] <troy_s> but there needs to exist a list where 'work only' related items appear
[06:59] <troy_s> that mailing list was the only one in place, so that seems like a logical starting point.  no need to overcomplicate until necessary.  one could argue that if we create a art-offtopic, that people won't use it.
[06:59] <troy_s> and if you create a work only list,
[06:59] <troy_s> there will be persistent folks who insist on cluttering it up to be heard.
[07:00] <mhb> but surely there are people like me who are silent and just watching
[07:00] <troy_s> i don't have the time for that, and it results in nothing.  all round, it is a complete waste of time and a distraction, which is fine and dandy if you have plenty of time to read through silly bits.
[07:00] <troy_s> indeed.
[07:00] <troy_s> there are a lot.
[07:00] <troy_s> they email me often :)
[07:00] <troy_s> in private
[07:00] <troy_s> i will say, that for the large part, people are very very very excited and happy with the direction and structure the art team has established.
[07:01] <troy_s> and i tend to build on those positives.  or at least try.
[07:02] <mhb> troy_s: well OK. I just hope I'll still be able to watch "the artwork flow", not just the product
[07:02] <troy_s> well that's the idea.
[07:03] <troy_s> many folks produce decent looking artwork.
[07:03] <troy_s> but it is far more complicated than that when you look at the overarching picture...
[07:03] <troy_s> everyone needs to create art that fits within the scope -- that means it is more like an animation department.
[07:03] <troy_s> every character would have a keyframer who is responsible for that character, and has authority, but even still, they must fit into the larger picture.
[07:03] <troy_s> as must the background artists etc
[07:04] <troy_s> professional product isn't created in closed little backroom circles where people spit out tidbits.
[07:04] <troy_s> it is a constant process -- much like sculpting
[07:04] <troy_s> you take a blob of clay
[07:04] <troy_s> figure out some good directions to take
[07:04] <troy_s> and sculpt it.
[07:04] <troy_s> refine it
[07:04] <troy_s> borrow
[07:04] <troy_s> etc.
[07:05] <troy_s> depending on time limits, i like to see a few 'boats' put into the water
[07:06] <troy_s> those boats are 'steered', but everyone is expected to steer in the same direction and not 'bail ship' when the boat isn't going in the direction they want.
[07:06] <troy_s> the boats will progress so that they are all the same distance along the race, but in different paths.
[07:06] <troy_s> make sense?
[07:06] <mhb> yes
[07:06] <troy_s> open source art has largely been a bunch of small boats
[07:06] <troy_s> driven in a bunch of different directions
[07:07] <troy_s> and selected at random by individuals that call the collection a 'boat show'
[07:07] <troy_s> lol
[07:07] <troy_s> it simply doesn't work.  as you can imagine the output with an animation, sketch, etc... when no one is speaking the same language etc.
[07:07] <mhb> troy_s: I still think you can "steer" the team on the ML and not just the few "art captians"
[07:08] <troy_s> mhb, agree.
[07:08] <mhb> troy_s: I agree - we/you/the artwork need to be organized
[07:08] <troy_s> mhb i tend to think as i would with a firewall
[07:08] <troy_s> start clean -- restrict everything -- then permit as required.
[07:08] <troy_s> but that is hard to do on a list that has no precedence
[07:09] <troy_s> it also takes a great deal of maturity to say 'ok we are going this way, now how do i make this direction better or provide very reasonable variations'
[07:09] <troy_s> without feeling like you have been 'snubbed' etc.
[07:09] <troy_s> i suppose that is the fine line between hobby and professional.
[07:09] <troy_s> there are many folks who can provide professional looking graphics as we have seen... trying to get them to shape and coordinate together is tricky business.
[07:10] <troy_s> i think we are making strong progress though.  there are some wonderful variations coming in...
[07:10] <troy_s> of course, i like to see 'very' varied variations in different flavours, then limit from there (inverse firewall approach)
[07:12] <mhb> uh huh
[07:12] <troy_s> and those folks out there who seem to have an innate rebellion towards structure and process should probably do a little history research.
[07:12] <mhb> (I hope that's not me :o)
[07:12] <mhb> I can see what (who) you mean, I guess
[07:13] <troy_s> they are usually folks who have some internal fear of losing power.  the reality is quite simple -- anyone who practices a craft does so in a very methodical manner.
[07:13] <mhb> (not Who, of course)
[07:13] <troy_s> take davinci for example
[07:13] <troy_s> and look to his countless sketches of muscle structure -- none of those were ever really intended to be 'art' unto themselves, but rather examinations of form.
[07:14] <troy_s> and he didn't suddenly wake up one day and say "i have this terrific idea -- i am going to combine anatomy with insect anatomy!"
[07:14] <troy_s> follow me?
[07:14] <mhb> yes
[07:14] <troy_s> he plodded along in a very formulaic and methodical approach to completion.
[07:15] <troy_s> as with say, if we look to a company like apple that has good art direction, or a movie that has good art direction
[07:15] <troy_s> it simply isn't the case where EVERYONE steps up and directs the art.
[07:15] <troy_s> a small group direct it, and everyone is expected to contribute along certain lines.
[07:15] <mhb> OK, no objections to that.
[07:15] <troy_s> good structure doesn't restrict creativity, it simply keeps it within a given sphere.
[07:15] <mhb> I completely agree
[07:16] <troy_s> most extraordinary artists i know LOVE limitations -- its strange.
[07:16] <troy_s> limitations force you to be creative in ways that you are unfamiliar... if all you have is black and white, it forces you to work within the medium etc.
[07:16] <troy_s> they don't complain about not having a certain colour, they just make black and white work.
[07:16] <troy_s> and work amazingly.
[07:17] <mhb> sure, but they are the most skilled ones
[07:17] <mhb> nevertheless, let's get back
[07:17] <troy_s> craft.  practice.
[07:17] <troy_s> yah shoot.
[07:18] <mhb> I agree that the artwork team needs to be "steered" but still - I would love if every "order, suggestion " from the responsible and skilled people was visible in public on the ML ...
[07:19] <troy_s> mhb:  most of that is taken into account with the process.  if more people buy into it, you will see a very clear paper trail
[07:19] <mhb> so that the process would be completely transparent
[07:19] <troy_s> yep
[07:19] <troy_s> i am 100% for transparency
[07:19] <troy_s> but that takes people to contribute, and contribute decent levels of quantity -- even if in short spurts.
[07:19] <troy_s> one mock up doesn't help anyone
[07:20] <troy_s> but several do...
[07:20] <mhb> troy_s: even one mock up does, if it inspires someone
[07:20] <troy_s> if everyone follows the given ruleset the paper trail is a byproduct.
[07:20] <mhb> troy_s: I think
[07:21] <troy_s> well true enough... but to really get a feel, people need to open up and present it
[07:21] <troy_s> if it sits on your computer or some off link hidden away on the mailing list that people need to search for, it is useless.
[07:21] <troy_s> which is why the centralization is key.
[07:21] <troy_s> so that we have all the stuff in a given area and it is easy to scan through.
[07:21] <troy_s> not massive collages of disparate components.
[07:24] <mhb> well
[07:25] <troy_s> a hole with water in it.
[07:25] <mhb> I know :o)
[07:26] <mhb> let me finish the glass of water from the well and I'll continue :o)
[07:26] <mhb> maybe a better artwork management system would be handy
[07:27] <troy_s> yep... when we get enough folks contributing i agree.  right now it is most effecient if someone does it as there aren't hundreds of submissions
[07:27] <mhb> troy_s: If you start working on something, let me know
[07:27] <mhb> troy_s: I can help you with all possible programming
[07:28] <troy_s> well i doubt i will have time for something like that.  right now i just use imagemagick scripts to build contacts.
[07:30] <mhb> I meant it more like "you = the artwork team"
[07:30] <troy_s> yeah i think a good cms will be useful in the future... once we hit critical mass...
[07:31] <troy_s> i have heard good things about drupal http://drupal.org/
[07:32] <mhb> I like it, too.
[07:32] <mhb> we use it for the local Ubuntu site
[07:32] <troy_s> really?
[07:33] <troy_s> link?
[07:33] <mhb> http://www.ubuntu.cz/
[07:33] <mhb> (we are currently working on a new artwork more similar to ubuntu.com)
[07:34] <troy_s> i know that drupal has some good image handling plugins...
[07:36] <mhb> I don't know. Anyway, the process should be reversed - first list the things that we need and then search for a CMS
[07:37] <mhb> we should find the CMS that fits the most (and then we could make some modifications on our own - at least I think I'll be able to)
[07:42] <mhb> but as you say - it's not a near future
[07:45] <troy_s> indeed... needs are basically image based though
[07:45] <troy_s> with comment area for steering
[07:45] <troy_s> i don't know of a simpler one just looking now
[07:50] <mhb> if you find some time (I know you are a busy man), post your conditions on the ML, so others would know about it, and I will have it in one place
[07:51] <troy_s> who uses it is key...
[07:51] <troy_s> art.ubuntu.com was created without thinking about who would use it.
[07:51] <troy_s> and hence suffered accordingly.
[07:54] <troy_s> man ubuntu is great for installing stuffs.
[07:57] <mhb> troy_s: art.ubuntu.com wasn't generally a bad idea
[07:57] <mhb> troy_s: maybe it wasn't really well-known for the people who would use it
[07:59] <troy_s> it was a great idea
[07:59] <troy_s> but poorly executed.
[07:59] <troy_s> no one was assigned responsibility
[07:59] <troy_s> and the admin level died
[07:59] <troy_s> so it sort of exists as a strange unupdated thing
[08:15] <mhb> troy_s: AFAIK, there is a new page coming up called spreadubuntu.org
[08:15] <mhb> troy_s: the marketing team is responsible for that
[08:15] <mhb> troy_s: maybe it would be possible to somehow integrate the user wallpapers into their site, I dunno
[08:16] <troy_s> eek
[08:16] <troy_s> considering that i will initially be doing the updating, autonomy is probably good.
[08:24] <newz2000> troy_s: ping
[08:25] <troy_s> heyas newz
[08:25] <troy_s> newz2000, i guess you got my mail eh?
[08:25] <troy_s> lol
[08:25] <newz2000> yeah
[08:25] <newz2000> I've got the art-team website set up...
[08:25] <newz2000> but I'm on a tight deadline with bzr.
[08:25] <newz2000> If I give you ftp access cay you do the drupal thing?
[08:26] <troy_s> well considering that i can't seem to get it up on my box
[08:26] <troy_s> ...
[08:27] <troy_s> i am getting user issues on the default install.  i suppose i could manually add the users, but root doesn't seem to work either (after permitting the mysql root user with password)
[08:27] <troy_s> don't sweat it... it was just a back of head idea...
[08:27] <troy_s> finish up with your bzr work
[08:28] <newz2000> ok. Also, there's a person who is eager to help out with programming website stuff...
[08:28] <newz2000> Brandon Holtsclaw
[08:28] <newz2000> He goes by imbrandon here on freenode
[08:28] <newz2000> oh, he's here
[08:28] <newz2000> imbrandon_
[08:29] <newz2000> Je
[08:29] <newz2000> opos
[08:29] <newz2000> oops :] 
[08:29] <troy_s> let me know when bzr lifts a bit...
[08:29] <troy_s> what is the art team website?
[08:29] <newz2000> Thursday is the deadline
[08:29] <newz2000> sorry, I meant auc
[08:29] <newz2000> art.ubuntu.com is now on the new hosting platform
[08:30] <troy_s> yep... hit me with mail
[08:30] <newz2000> ok. Do you have the mysql user/pass?
[08:30] <troy_s> when you have a moment to try a drupal go
[08:30] <troy_s> not a chance
[08:30] <troy_s> i had ssh to the one box, but no mysql permits... kind of useless :)
[08:30] <troy_s> but i am actually pretty busy
[08:30] <troy_s> enough
[08:30] <newz2000> Do you want the ftp/db info so you can try it?
[08:30] <newz2000> oh, ok.
[08:30] <troy_s> with sorting out the default stuffs.
[08:31] <newz2000> Do you want me to send Brandon the details and see if he can improve things? I don't even know what needs done
[08:31] <troy_s> does he have permissions to get those sorts of things done?
[08:31] <newz2000> I can give him permission
[08:32] <newz2000> sabdfl asked me to work with him
[08:32] <troy_s> well i don't want a massive security hole on a whimsical attempt
[08:32] <troy_s> if you know what i mean
[08:32] <newz2000> Yeah
[08:32] <troy_s> if he has been papally blessed, then sure.
[08:32] <newz2000> The new hosting platform should prevent him from having access outside of ftp and upload.
[08:32] <troy_s> what is the new platform running?
[08:32] <newz2000> I'll give him the non-root db password and ftp access.
[08:33] <newz2000> ISPConfig on hoary
[08:33] <troy_s> great...
[08:33] <troy_s> hoary?
[08:33] <troy_s> sheesh
[08:33] <troy_s> he can hit me with email if need be.
[08:33] <troy_s> no problem there.
[08:33] <newz2000> yeah, those servers have a funny architecture and the kernel with dapper causes it to non boot.
[08:33] <newz2000> WHich is a pain when they're in a different state and it takes 48 hours to get a reboot.
[08:34] <newz2000> What needs done to auc to make it more useful?
[08:35] <troy_s> um... plenty -- but i have washed my hands of that site.
[08:35] <troy_s> i find it to be redundant, although apparently there are some folks at canonical who disagree.
[08:35] <troy_s> gnome-look seems to work well enough
[08:35] <newz2000> what were you wanting drupal for?
[08:35] <troy_s> for non direct related artwork.  the whole drupal idea is based largely around my needs to organize all of the submissions properly.
[08:36] <troy_s> purely for artwork team development resources
[08:36] <troy_s> make sense?
[08:36] <newz2000> I see
[08:36] <newz2000> And the whole attaching images is tedious with the wiki?
[08:36] <troy_s> well it sort of works, but it would be nicer if i could just upload images to the proper area and they get automatically thumbnailed etc
[08:37] <newz2000> yeah
[08:37] <troy_s> and have an area for comments on a per item basis
[08:37] <troy_s> etc.
[08:37] <troy_s> all of which drupal has a plugin for
[08:37] <troy_s> etc.
[08:37] <newz2000> What about an installation of the gallery? It has voting, comments.
[08:37] <troy_s> i don't mind using the wiki, i was just wanting to test it out as a proof of principle
[08:37] <troy_s> does it?
[08:37] <newz2000> sure
[08:37] <troy_s> hrm...
[08:37] <troy_s> might work.
[08:37] <troy_s> can you area-ize the stuff?
[08:37] <troy_s> i know drupal has keyword workflow
[08:38] <newz2000> what do you mean by area-ize?
[08:38] <troy_s> which is very handy... i could attach Proposal for example to a set of images.
[08:38] <troy_s> and they get sorted by workflow keyword.
[08:38] <troy_s> very useful.
[08:38] <newz2000> hmm... well, if you know drupal will work, I'm sure we can get it set up.
[08:38] <troy_s> well i will try to fart with it on my local box
[08:38] <newz2000> I could easily put it as a sub-folder under auc.
[08:38] <troy_s> and see if it meets the needs.
[08:39] <troy_s> don't really mind... i just don't want anything to do with auc :)
[08:39] <newz2000> The reason that's easy is I don't need to mess with dns.
[08:39] <newz2000> I haven't really figured out that process yet.
[08:39] <newz2000> And because of the timzeon diff it's so far taking a bit of time.
[08:40] <newz2000> let me see if elmo's on, if so I'll see if I can get something through... just a sec
[08:41] <newz2000> he's idle... how about "art-staging.ubunt.com"
[08:41] <newz2000> or do yu have a suggestion?
[08:45] <troy_s> that's fine too
[08:45] <troy_s> whatever is easy
[08:45] <troy_s> don't really care too much about those minutiae right now
[08:45] <newz2000> ok, I'll get a new site created sometime by mid-day thursday (our time). Maybe I'll get the whole DNS thing figured out in the process.
[08:50] <newz2000> I just read the e-mail from sabdfl where he mentiones a tool to make the flow of the art-layout nicer.
[08:59] <troy_s> hey newz2000
[08:59] <troy_s> i have apache going
[08:59] <troy_s> and drupal is working
[08:59] <troy_s> and the database is going
[08:59] <troy_s> but i have issues with the damn browser trying to download .phtml files instead of displaying them
[08:59] <newz2000> that wasn't long. You must have had an "a ha!"
[08:59] <newz2000> oh
[08:59] <troy_s> and i added them to the addtype
[08:59] <troy_s> restarted apache2 and still tries to download the bugger
[09:00] <troy_s> some ubuntu related finickyness
[09:00] <newz2000> I know how to fix it... I just have to remember
[09:00] <troy_s> never had this problem on openbs.d
[09:00] <troy_s> AddType application/x-httpd-php .phtml
[09:00] <troy_s> but it still tries downloading with firefox and epiphany
[09:00] <newz2000> grep /etc/mime.types
[09:00] <newz2000> oops
[09:00] <newz2000> grep phtml /etc/mime.types
[09:00] <troy_s> might be another apache conf somewhere?
[09:01] <newz2000> do you get a result?
[09:01] <troy_s> application/x-httpd-php                         phtml pht php
[09:01] <newz2000> ok, that's good.
[09:01] <newz2000> just a sec
[09:01] <newz2000> are you using virtual hosting?
[09:02] <newz2000> or just the default website on your pc?
[09:02] <troy_s> i am merely trying to get it working on my workstation
[09:02] <troy_s> so it is all localhost
[09:02] <newz2000> ok, ls /etc/apache2/mods-enabled
[09:02] <newz2000> are there two php related files there?
[09:02] <newz2000> php4.load and php4.conf
[09:02] <troy_s> hrm... let me look
[09:03] <troy_s> cgi.load  userdir.conf  userdir.load
[09:03] <troy_s> those three... no php related
[09:03] <newz2000> ok, that's easy to fix... this will take care of it.
[09:03] <troy_s> dpkg-reconfigure php4?
[09:03] <newz2000> I've never done it that way... it might work. Here's somethign taht will help for sure though.
[09:04] <newz2000> a2enmod
[09:04] <newz2000> wait
[09:04] <newz2000> a2enmod php4
[09:05] <newz2000> that will enable php
[09:05] <newz2000> then /etc/init.d/apache2 force-reload
[09:05] <troy_s> okie...
[09:05] <troy_s> sudo i presume?
[09:06] <newz2000> yes
[09:06] <troy_s> php4 is enabled
[09:06] <troy_s> all is well
[09:06] <troy_s> but still tries to download
[09:06] <troy_s> the damn phtml file
[09:06] <newz2000> :-D
[09:06] <troy_s> no work
[09:06] <troy_s> grr...
[09:06] <newz2000> echo "<?php phpinfo(); ?>" > /var/www/phpinfo.php
[09:07] <newz2000> then http://localhost/phpinfo.php
[09:07] <newz2000> does it work?
[09:08] <troy_s> testing
[09:08] <troy_s> yep php is working fine
[09:08] <newz2000> ok, so its just the phtml thing.
[09:09] <newz2000> Did drupal put .htaccess files in your /var/www?
[09:09] <troy_s> yep... again its that blasted conf issue... letme try something.
[09:09] <newz2000> You may need to enable htaccess support.
[09:09] <newz2000> any mac users here?
[09:11] <troy_s> still bloody trying to download it...
[09:12] <newz2000> ls -a /var/www
[09:12] <newz2000> is there a .htaccess file?
[09:12] <troy_s> grr... i wonder if it is because it is a phtml file that drupal is shipping without an extension
[09:12] <troy_s> i imagine the browser is supposed to know about phtml by looking at the first few lines?
[09:12] <troy_s> no htaccess
[09:13] <newz2000> no,
[09:13] <troy_s> ahh there is one in the drupal dir
[09:13] <troy_s> yes...
[09:13] <newz2000> the server has to know that it's a php and parse it on the server
[09:13] <newz2000> OK, you may need to enable htaccess in your apache file.
[09:14] <troy_s> ?
[09:14] <newz2000> just a sec, I'll tell you how
[09:14] <newz2000> sudo vi /etc/apache2/apache2.conf (or whatever editor you like)
[09:14] <troy_s> ja
[09:14] <troy_s> done
[09:14] <newz2000> find AllowOverride
[09:15] <troy_s> got an icons one
[09:15] <newz2000> find one near the end
[09:15] <newz2000> no the icons one, not the <Directory /> one either
[09:15] <newz2000> I don't have any pure files, so I'm going from memory
[09:15] <newz2000> all of mine have been edited
[09:15] <troy_s> icons error and publichtml
[09:15] <troy_s> i have an htaccess line
[09:16] <newz2000> ok, is there an AllowOverride near there?
[09:16] <troy_s> no... accessfilename is sitting on its own line
[09:16] <troy_s> AccessFileName .htaccess
[09:17] <newz2000> here's what you want, just add it at the end:
[09:17] <newz2000> <Directory '/var/www'>
[09:17] <newz2000>     AllowOverride AuthConfig Options FileInfo

[09:17] <newz2000> the restart of force-reload apache again
[09:19] <troy_s> same garbage :)
[09:19] <troy_s> damn downloading
[09:19] <newz2000> :-(
[09:19] <troy_s> ok i must shower... thanks for your help thus far newz.
[09:19] <troy_s> i'll bang away when i get back
[09:19] <newz2000> I sent a request for the domain
[09:19] <troy_s> pretty sure it is the damn
[09:19] <troy_s> apache2.conf
[09:19] <newz2000> We can put up a new website. It will work there.
[09:19] <troy_s> addtype not workign with unassigned file extensions
[09:19] <newz2000> I never use phtml.
[09:19] <troy_s> addtype needs an extension, it isn't looking in the file itself for guidance
[09:19] <troy_s> which is probably the problemo
[09:20] <troy_s> the file is just blah
[09:20] <troy_s> instead of blah.phtml
[09:20] <newz2000> oh, that's easy to fix
[09:20] <newz2000> I misunderstood
[09:20] <troy_s> and somewhere i need to tell apache that the blah file is a phtml
[09:20] <troy_s> or tell apache to look inside the file.
[09:20] <newz2000> doesn't the .htaccess do that?
[09:20] <troy_s> probably
[09:20] <troy_s> where do i specify it?
[09:20] <newz2000> Here's what we use on auc:
[09:21] <newz2000>      <FilesMatch '(backgrounds|themes|gtk_engines|art-icons|download|users|contest)'>
[09:21] <newz2000>          ForceType application/x-httpd-php
[09:21] <newz2000>      </FilesMatch>
[09:21] <troy_s> eek where do i put that?
[09:21] <troy_s> apache2.conf?
[09:21] <newz2000> I put it in .htaccess in the root folder of the site.
[09:22] <newz2000> You could put it in a Location directive too I guess.
[09:22] <newz2000> <Location />....</Location>
[09:22] <troy_s> ok so filesmatch is a directory listing?
[09:22] <troy_s> what would i do to tell it to use php for all of the file output
[09:22] <newz2000> It means if someone requests the file /backgrounds run it through php first.
[09:23] <troy_s> so that's a directory then?
[09:23] <newz2000> no, its actually a file named just backgrounds
[09:23] <newz2000> no .php on it.
[09:23] <troy_s> so i would need to * if it is a generated name correct?
[09:23] <troy_s> like waze89921x
[09:23] <newz2000> I don't think so
[09:23] <newz2000> You have a file named waze89921x and you want it to be parsed as php?
[09:24] <troy_s> yep but the waze* is dynamically generated
[09:24] <troy_s> for some reason the crap coming out of the drupal directory is blah (which needs to be parsed as php)
[09:24] <newz2000> Sounds fishy.
[09:24] <troy_s> well it is work
[09:25] <troy_s> working... just hte files that are coming out aren't getting parsed by php
[09:25] <troy_s> they are being shipped to the browser raw methinks
[09:25] <newz2000> check the install files. I'm sure they have some magic line you can add to apache.conf of .htaccess that makes it work.
[09:27] <troy_s> grr
[09:38] <troy_s> well bugger it... i will just install from the sources
[09:38] <troy_s> instead of apt-get
[09:39] <troy_s> see if that fixes the issues.
[09:39] <troy_s> greetz kwwii
[09:39] <troy_s> kwwii, you are turning into a bit of a wiki wizard...
[09:39] <troy_s> ;)
[09:40] <kwwii> it is a wiki-wacky world :p
[09:41] <troy_s> you learn any of the handy macros yet?
[09:41] <troy_s> like @DATE@
[09:41] <troy_s> etc?
[09:41] <kwwii> nope, I refuse too
[09:41] <kwwii> actually I know @SIG@
[09:42] <troy_s> what does @SIG@ do?
[09:42] <kwwii> adds your name and the date
[09:42] <troy_s> ahh... well there you go
[09:42] <troy_s> same diff.
[09:43] <troy_s> you prepping those for me?
[09:43] <kwwii> I guess I will go ahead and make the page in incoming and then we can work out any future stuff
[09:50] <kwwii> troy_s: here is a link to the stuff I want to put in the wiki page so far: http://bootsplash.org/forWIKI.tar.bz2
[09:51] <troy_s> that all of it?
[09:51] <kwwii> hehe
[09:51] <troy_s> cuz i need to sort based on the content
[09:51] <kwwii> yeah, that is what I thought too
[09:51] <kwwii> so I will simply start by making my own wiki page in incomin
[09:51] <kwwii> incoming
[09:51] <troy_s> okie... that's great if that is all of it in one tarball.
[09:52] <troy_s> if that's it... that's all i need.
[09:52] <troy_s> i can wiki all the stuff up... i was just waiting for more stuff to come down the pipe
[09:52] <kwwii> I might find a few more, but until now, that is all
[09:53] <kwwii> that tarball has a few wallpaper ideas, a few button ideas, a few kdm ideas and some other things explain colors, gloss, etc.
[09:53] <kwwii> the ksrc file, for instance is a color file for kde
[09:54] <mhb> kwwii: what's the proper tool to open it?
[09:54] <troy_s> okie
[09:54] <kwwii> and the windowdecotest*.png files are gradients to use as a bg for the current window deco (along with the color file)
[09:55] <kwwii> mhb: kde :-)
[09:55] <kwwii> in system settings, you can change the colors used by kde
[09:55] <kwwii> under appearance
[09:55] <mhb> oh
[09:55] <mhb> thanks
[09:55] <kwwii> so, system-settings --> appearance --> colors
[09:56] <kwwii> it would be best if I wrote some stuff to go along with some of these pics
[09:56] <kwwii> the stuff with the world on it, for instance, or the lighter blue version of the kde-app start page
[09:56] <troy_s> indeed... i am mostly interested in the direct art based things like the mocks for logon etc.
[09:56] <kwwii> need explaining
[09:56] <kwwii> then take those and the wallpapers
[09:56] <kwwii> and I can put the rest on a new wiki page in incoming
[09:57] <troy_s> indeed
[09:58] <kwwii> edgy3a.png is a bg for a kdm without a window (ie, the text entry box and titles are directly on the page)
[10:00] <mhb> kwwii: is there a way how to view the windowdecorations directly on the windows?
[10:03] <kwwii> yepp, again, go into the system settings-->Appearance-->Window Decorations-->Overlay and enter the file name in the text entry widget or browse for the file
[10:04] <mhb> kwwii: thank you very much ...
[10:04] <kwwii> you can set the gradient for both the active and the inactive window decos
[10:04] <kwwii> no prob :-)
[10:06] <mhb> I'll be offline for a moment
[10:24] <mhb> I'm back ... was starting the KDE desktop
[10:25] <kwwii> hehe, like it took 20 minutes :-)
[10:25] <mhb> OK, I won't lie - called my girlfriend, too :o)
[10:27] <mhb> kwwii: the window-decorator pngs are not bad
[10:29] <mhb> but there's one thing on the window-decorator style that I really dislike
[10:30] <mhb> it's the default Kubuntu buttons
[10:30] <mhb> when I compare the Kubuntu and the Ubuntu default win-deco buttons
[10:31] <mhb> the Ubuntu ones look very simple and professional, no-nonsense
[10:33] <kwwii> mhb: yeah, I made them, and I know we need to change them
[10:33] <kwwii> wait till I am done with my wiki page
[10:33] <kwwii> I have suggestions for that too
[10:33] <newz2000> woo hoo. My theme works. Finally. (only barely though)
[10:34] <mhb> kwwii: my opinion is that they should move more into the "professional" level
[10:34] <kwwii> yepp
[10:35] <mhb> kwwii: just like Oxygen grows up from Crystal playfulness
[10:35] <mhb> more modest, I guess
[10:36] <kwwii> yepp
[10:36] <mhb> kwwii: OK, I'll wait for your proposals, after all - you're The Artist here :o))
[10:42] <kwwii> I am about done
[10:42] <kwwii> (have to upload all the files now)
[11:00] <kwwii> ok, done
[11:00] <kwwii> I assume the troy will put the kdm and wallpaper ideas in the right place
[11:01] <kwwii> for now, I have made one fscked up wiki page
[11:02] <kwwii> wiki.kubuntu.org/Artwork/Incoming/Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas
[11:05] <mhb> kwwii: thanks a lot
[11:06] <kwwii> no problem
[11:06] <kwwii> :-)
[11:06] <kwwii> I am still fixing one pic
[11:33] <kwwii> done
[11:33] <kwwii> troy_s: did you add the wallpaper and login stuff yet?
[11:34] <kwwii> I think I will add it to that page as well, and you can use the same images
[11:50] <troy_s> kwwii i wont be doing anything till later tonite.
[11:57] <kwwii> ok, cool
[11:57] <kwwii> I am uploading some stuff now