[12:35] <Keybuk> 01:48:33.099049 169.254.141.111.137 > 169.254.255.255.137: udp 68 (ttl 128, id 15045, len 96)
[12:35] <Keybuk> 01:48:33.102586 169.254.141.111.137 > 169.254.255.255.137: udp 68 (ttl 128, id 15046, len 96)
[12:35] <Keybuk> 0
[12:35] <Keybuk> heh
[12:35] <Keybuk> random traffic on my network
[12:35] <Keybuk> methinks a neighbour wants internet access
[12:36] <tseng> Keybuk: bootp, kinda weird
[12:38] <Keybuk> isn't that part of the link-local discovery protocol?
[12:38] <Keybuk> could be a windows machine
[12:39] <Burgwork> Keybuk, do you run segmented wireless networks?
[12:40] <Keybuk> Burgwork: and in English?
[12:41] <Keybuk> 01:55:13.382275 arp who-has 82.108.80.243 tell 82.108.80.254
[12:41] <Keybuk> ^ that's weird too ... why is it ARPing an IP address that's unused?
[12:41] <Burgwork> Keybuk, run two seperate wireless networks, one public and one private
[12:42] <Keybuk> oh, I know ... I stuck it in the root dns temporarily
[12:42] <Keybuk> heh
[12:42] <Keybuk> Burgwork: nah
[12:42] <tseng> Burgwork: im not that friendly
[12:42] <Keybuk> I used to, but my neighbours were taking the piss and downloading porn on it
[12:42] <Burgwork> ah
[12:42] <Keybuk> so I now only run a restricted-mac network
[12:42] <Burgwork> would be nice if the routers could do it ootb
[12:44] <Keybuk> "the routers" 
[12:44] <Keybuk> ?
[12:44] <Burgwork> sorry, end of the day, mind is spacing
[12:45] <Burgwork> s/the//
[12:45] <Keybuk> I never run production firmware on a router anyway
[12:45] <Keybuk> always replace it with a Linux of some kind
[12:46] <sistpoty> openwrt is nice :)
[12:46] <HrdwrBoB> I just run the wireless network seperately
[12:46] <HrdwrBoB> and use a vpn over the top of it
[12:46] <Keybuk> want to get to the point where I can just run Ubuntu on a WRT
[12:47] <sistpoty> yay, that would be great
[12:52] <Chipzz> Keybuk: why would you want to do that?
[12:53] <Keybuk> Chipzz: because I can
[12:53] <Keybuk> what better reason is there? :p
[12:53] <Chipzz> you could consider using your better judgement? ;P
[12:54] <Chipzz> ubuntu is waaaaaaaaaaaay to big in way too many sizes to be usefull in allmost any way on a wrt
[12:54] <Chipzz> let alone that apt would not be a big advantage giving the limited rewritability of flash
[01:10] <ogra> Keybuk, that looks very much like my linksys router a minute before it dies :)
[01:14] <Kamion> woo, complete ubiquity installation of edgy
[01:15] <Kamion> whether it boots is another question for another day, I feel
[01:16] <Keybuk> Chipzz: hmm?  Ubuntu can be as small as you want
[01:16] <Keybuk> a kernel, initramfs and minimal klibc-based or busybox-based root filesystem
[01:16] <Keybuk> doesn't need to use dpkg or apt, etc.
[01:16] <Keybuk> To: 	scott@ubuntu.com
[01:16] <Keybuk> Subject: 	Happy Birthday from Ubuntu Forums
[01:16] <Keybuk> Date: 	Tue, 18 Jul 2006 00:01:13 +0100 (BST)
[01:16] <Keybuk> how tacky
[01:17] <Chipzz> Keybuk: then what is the point in using ubuntu anyway?
[01:17] <Keybuk> Chipzz: means it's our code on there, rather than something else
[01:17] <ogra> Keybuk, H A P P Y  B I R T H D A Y ! ! ! ! ! 
[01:17] <Keybuk> ogra: not officially my birthday until "tomorrow"
[01:18] <ogra> bah
[01:18] <ogra> it starts at 00:00 !
[01:18] <Chipzz> Keybuk: happy birthday :)
[01:18] <zul> happy pre-birthday
[01:18] <Keybuk> ogra: but that's 19 hours before I was born
[01:18] <ogra> pfft, did you never party into your b-day ? did you care then ? 
[01:22] <lifeless> Keybuk: its tomorrow here already, deal. HAPPY BIRTHDAY.
[01:23] <lifeless> Keybuk: or do you mean wednesday?
[01:23] <ogra> no he means in 19h
[01:23] <crimsun> Keybuk: so I hope you're going to take a nice break from irc for a bit :-)
[01:24] <crimsun> (since you did mention taking the day off)
[01:24] <Keybuk> yeah, we're going on a day out somewhere
[01:24] <crimsun> rock, enjoy :-)
[01:26] <Keybuk> anyhoo, beer and dvd time
[01:26] <Keybuk> night
[01:41] <Kamion>  ubiquity_1.1.0_source.changes 3.7 kB, ok (0 s, 3.72 kB/s) ] 
[01:41] <Kamion> ha. right. bed. night.
[01:41] <Kamion> (that was almost poetic.)
[05:30] <jdub> "To sum it up - Dapper Drake is Ubuntu's best release to date, where just about everything just works. The massive array of packages, with the user friendliness bolted on, mean that I can recommend Ubuntu to anybody that wants a nice, simple distribution. Just make sure you download the alternate CD."
[05:30] <jdub> heh
[05:30] <jdub> hrm
[05:30] <jdub> ;-)
[06:07] <BenC> what's the rule for patching packages in universe?
[06:07] <BenC> do I need to coordinate with motu, or can I just patch and upload?
[06:10] <crimsun> the latter
[06:11] <LaserJock> I don't know I think he should have to have a MOTU sponsor it ;-)
[06:12] <LaserJock> sorry, that just struck me as funny for some reason
[06:17] <infinity> BenC: As a member of core-dev, you're implicitly also a MOTU.  If it's a package with significant Ubuntu changes and someone who looks like an "Ubuntu maintainer" taking care of it, though, it's always nice to ping them.
[06:35] <BenC> infinity: it has no changes from the debian version
[06:35] <BenC> kexec-tools...so I doubt it has any significance as of yet
[06:36] <BenC> I need the kdump patch in it though
[06:37] <infinity> BenC: Yeah, just mangle and upload.
[06:37] <infinity> BenC: Also, new kernel built everywhere, and the new lkh is good on all arches (I updated the chroots and was much relieved).  Thanks.
[06:38] <BenC> sweety
[06:38] <BenC> err, just "sweet"
[06:39] <BenC> now I don't have to worry about Mith killing me for holding up knot-1 any longer than I already have
[06:39] <infinity> I may still hurt you. ;)
[06:40] <sladen> BenC: Mithrandir is a _nice_ person.  If he's going to kill you, it'll be done in such a nice way that you might never notice...
[06:40] <infinity> Or such a nice way that you'll actually appreciate it while it's happening.
[06:41] <infinity> Maybe he'll get dholbach to hug you to death.
[06:41] <sladen> jdub: that's a good quote.  Perhaps worthy of El Fridge?
[06:41] <BenC> hehe
[06:42] <sladen> infinity: :)
[06:42] <sladen> Crossiant|Nose>Keyboard
[06:43] <infinity> Ow.
[06:50] <sladen> wow, Mithrandir was fast.
[07:42] <sladen> infinity: can you kick 'xaralx' out of DEPWAIT please
[07:43] <infinity> Erm, the depwait is incorrect?
[07:43] <infinity> Looks correct to me.
[07:44] <infinity> It'll resolve itself when the right version of wx2.6-headers is published.
[07:45] <infinity> sladen: Check the build log to see what I mean.
[07:45] <sladen> infinity: it has been.  wx2.6 failed because of errno.h not being around
[07:46] <infinity> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+package/wx2.6-headers
[07:46] <infinity> ^^ That shows 2.6.1.2ubuntu2 published
[07:46] <sladen> infinity: yes  2.6.3.2.1.1ubuntu2 finally got built yesterday 
[07:47] <infinity> It may be in the NEW queue, then.  It's definitely not published.
[07:48] <infinity> Yeah, the binaries are in NEW.
[07:48] <infinity> libwxbase2.6* was NEW.
[07:51] <sladen> infinity: rocking
[08:20] <stub> Launchpad will be going down in 15 minutes for its regular code update. Estimated downtime is 25 minutes.
[08:24] <pitti> Good morning
[08:24] <jsgotangco> hello pitti
[08:24] <crimsun> infinity: hi, is there a failed upload of kst from 17 minutes ago?
[08:25] <infinity> crimsun: Could just be unprocessed, since stub stopped all the cronjobs on drescher in anticipation of the LP update.
[08:25] <crimsun> infinity: ah, must be. Thanks.
[08:26] <infinity> crimsun: Yeah, it's in incoming.
[08:26] <crimsun> ah, greta.
[08:26] <crimsun> great^
[08:31] <Hobbsee> oh darn it.  just when i was going to file a whole lot of bugs on it.
[08:43] <Spads> http://flickr.com/photos/mbp_/112373573/ <-- he got the shot
[08:43] <Spads> oops, MCM
[08:45] <fabbione> morning guys
[08:47] <fabbione> hey Hobbsee 
[08:47] <Hobbsee> hi fabbione :)
[08:47] <Hobbsee> fabbione: i think you're in luck, you're not listed in my "todo" list.
[08:47] <fabbione> Hobbsee: i am not sure how i want to read what you just wrote
[08:48] <Hobbsee> fabbione: um, okay.  while i was out, i made a list of all the stuff i had to tell people, and worked on amarok a bit.
[08:48] <Hobbsee> fabbione: so now i'm finding those people, and telling them whatever i wrote down to tell them.
[08:48] <fabbione> ah ok :)
[08:48] <fabbione> well i don't use kde or amarok
[08:49] <Hobbsee> fabbione: i figured that.
[08:49] <fabbione> it's unlikely you will ever have to hunt me down
[08:49] <Hobbsee> fabbione: sure i will - to scream at you for breaking X?
[08:49] <crimsun> (quick, acquire a sparc, Hobbsee)
[08:49] <Hobbsee> crimsun: heh
[08:50] <fabbione> Hobbsee: nope.. i am off X too :)
[08:50] <Hobbsee> fabbione: oh yeah.  oops. i could scream at you anyway?
[08:50] <fabbione> Hobbsee: cluster? sparc?
[08:51] <fabbione> Hobbsee: sorry.. none of what i do fits in there
[08:51] <Hobbsee> fabbione: yeah, i figured that out eventually.  
[09:17] <nomed> hi all
[09:19] <Hobbsee> hi nomed 
[10:00] <Kamion> jdub: URL? I'd like to ensure that his desktop CD problems are fixed in the first point release.
[10:01] <Kamion> (since I believe I've now fixed at least half of the top ubiquity crashers from dapper in edgy)
[10:02] <Hobbsee> Kamion: yay!
[10:03] <jdub> Kamion: sorry
[10:03] <jdub> Kamion: http://www.free-bees.co.uk/articles/ubuntu606/
[10:04] <Kamion> ok, one system freeze, no idea what that is
[10:04] <Kamion> one instance of gparted not embedding properly, hmm
[10:04] <Kamion> another instance of the installer spewing an unspecified error message
[10:16] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: care to look at https://launchpad.net/bugs/53277 ?
[10:16] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 53277 in casper "casper's accessibility ubiquity hook shouldn't use log_end_msg" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  
[10:21] <pitti> Riddell: pth needs work before main approval, see MIR
[10:47] <pitti> seb128: FYI: cairomm approved for main (gtkmm2.4 b-dep)
[10:59] <sivang> morning
[11:00] <seb128> pitti: thank you
[11:00] <Hobbsee> hi sivang 
[11:00] <Mithrandir> seb128: why can't I enable system sounds without enabling software mixing?  My sound card does hardware mixing just fine..
[11:01] <seb128> Mithrandir: because libgnome uses the esd API to play them
[11:01] <seb128> Mithrandir: switching that code to gstreamer is planned though
[11:03] <Mithrandir> seb128: ahkay.  Any good reason for the panel eating 40% cpu here?  up-to-date-edgy
[11:03] <seb128> Mithrandir: is the menu "flicking" too?
[11:04] <seb128> we have some bugs about it but nobody provided useful enough datas about the issue
[11:04] <Mithrandir> seb128: the applications menu is, the others seem fine.
[11:04] <seb128> ok
[11:04] <seb128> let me find the bug number
[11:04] <seb128> ogra was supposed to get a debug log but he didn't
[11:04] <seb128> Mithrandir: bug #52405
[11:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 52405 in gnome-panel "gnome-panel eats 50% cpu for half an hour and flickers" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/52405
[11:05] <seb128> Mithrandir: gnome-session-remove gnome-panel && MENU_VERBOSE=1 GNOME_PANEL_DEBUG=1 BONOBO_ACTIVATION_DEBUG_OUTPUT=1 gnome-panel ... and try to figure what event make it updates in loop could be useful
[11:06] <seb128> Mithrandir: a backtrace (with gnome-panel-dbg install) could be useful too
[11:06] <Mithrandir> seb128: I gotta grab some food, but I'll do that once I get back.
[11:06] <seb128> thank you
[11:11] <dholbach> good morning
[11:12] <Hobbsee> hi dholbach, pitti 
[11:12] <dholbach> hey Hobbsee
[11:14] <seb128> hi dholbach
[11:14] <seb128> utch
[11:14] <seb128> they reversed the order of comments to launchpad?
[11:14] <dholbach> hey seb128
[11:15] <seb128> new comments are on top now
[11:15] <dholbach> yeah seems like :/
[11:15] <seb128> it's very confusing
[11:15] <thom> not again?
[11:15] <seb128> and you don't have the current comment next to the text entry, which is not handy to reply to it
[11:25] <Kamion> seb128: apparently a bug, should be fixed soon
[11:25] <Kamion> (already fixed on staging)
[11:30] <seb128> Kamion: ah, cool, thank you
[11:44] <Hobbsee> are uploads to main still frozen?
[11:44] <Mithrandir> yes.
[11:44] <Mithrandir> we'll hopefully be able to get knot out today, though.
[11:44] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: okay, i'll put it in the "to do list of packages to either upload myself, or bug people to upload"
[11:59] <HiddenWolf> whiprush: your blog entry works on your blog, but is horridly broken on planet.ubuntu
[12:01] <dholbach> HiddenWolf: known bug :)
[12:02] <HiddenWolf> heh, i figured.
[12:03] <ogra> Kamion, in case you are intrested in the precise error from yesterday (i only worked around it in ltsp) http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/18254 (i also have the full log stored)
[12:04] <Kamion> ogra: looks like you're not (correctly) telling debconf to use the noninteractive frontend
[12:05] <Kamion> there is no reason it should be trying whiptail if invoked correctly
[12:05] <ogra> hmm
[12:05] <Kamion> also a bug that debian-installer/{keymap,language} aren't being copied
[12:05] <ogra> thats why i always get the resolution question then ...
[12:05] <ogra> i thought it was an X breakage :)
[12:06] <Kamion> uh
[12:06] <Kamion> ok, so do you want the resolution question to be asked in the event that X can't autodetect it?
[12:07] <Kamion> oh, I see, very broken
[12:08] <Kamion> ogra: I'd suggest replacing that whole env -u ... command (including the redirections) with 'in-target /usr/sbin/ltsp-build-client --mirror file:///cdrom'
[12:09] <ogra> Kamion, i dont want any configuration ... that would be the best, but we're missing a debconf key for that :)
[12:09] <Kamion> needs di-utils (>= 1.20)
[12:10] <Kamion> you could probably do 'DEBIAN_PRIORITY=critical in-target ...' to avoid the question
[12:12] <Kamion> it's asked at priority high
[12:12] <ogra> in-target does all the chroot magic ? 
[12:15] <ogra> Kamion, *all* the redirections ? you mean i shouldnt create a separate logfile ? 
[12:17] <Kamion> ogra: correct
[12:17] <Kamion> /var/log/messages is obsolete
[12:17] <Kamion> in-target does the logging for you
[12:18] <Kamion> and yes, in-target does all the chroot magic
[12:18] <Kamion> of which nowadays there is quite a lot
[12:18] <ogra> well, i'd lie to keep a separate log as well, so i dont have to dig for the ltsp stuff in the big one
[12:19] <ogra> *like
[12:19] <Kamion> you don't keep a separate log right now though
[12:19] <ogra> sure
[12:19] <ogra> in /var/log/installer/messages in the target system after install
[12:20] <Kamion> that's only by fluke because you're out of date with respect to the rest of the installer code
[12:20] <ogra> (i had renamed that in my branch to ltsp-client.log already)
[12:20] <ogra> ah, k
[12:20] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I have a live cd where gfxboot doesn't work, but usplash does.  It worked with my old monitor, though.  Is there a useful way for me to debug this?
[12:21] <Kamion> ogra: it would really be strongly preferable for you to use in-target, but perhaps you could do:
[12:22] <Kamion> in-target sh -c '/usr/sbin/ltsp-build-client --mirror file:///cdrom > /var/log/ltsp-build-client.log 2>&1'
[12:22] <Kamion> it will be less convenient for users trying to work out what's going on though
[12:22] <Kamion> because that log won't appear on tty4
[12:23] <Kamion> Mithrandir: hmm. I think there might be some magic keystrokes
[12:23] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I think you can hold down shift at boot to get into a failsafe mode
[12:23] <ogra> Kamion, i'll live with the bigger log, dont worry
[12:24] <Kamion> well, anyway, the above is how to get a separate log
[12:24] <ogra> yep, thanks :)
[12:24] <Mithrandir> seb128: gnome-settings-daemon fails to start on the live cd -- no reply within specified time.
[12:43] <ogra> btw, whats holding us up now ? 
[12:44] <Mithrandir> we need to get all the ISOs tested.
[12:44] <Mithrandir> and I have the problem mentioned above which would be nice to debug or check if it's just my system.
[12:44] <ogra> well, it works on my installed system from  20060717.1
[12:44] <Mithrandir> ogra: dude, I can surely build you ISOs, but if you want me to, you need to actually ask.  I suck at mind-reading, just ask simira.
[12:45] <ogra> Mithrandir, no, i'm fine building them myself :)
[12:45] <ogra> i didnt know ubuntu was ready so far 
[12:46] <ogra> but livefses would be nice :)
[12:46] <Mithrandir> just a sec, I need to get this kiwi juice off my fingers
[12:47] <ogra> no hurry :)
[12:47] <Mithrandir> ok, edubuntu livefs-es building.
[12:47] <Mithrandir> Riddell: you probably want kubuntu livefs-es too?
[12:58] <Riddell> Mithrandir: yes please
[12:59] <Mithrandir> Riddell: I'll build you ones once the edubuntu ones are done, then
[01:23] <Kamion> Riddell: there are a lot of qtparted crashes relating to NTFS; see bug 47194 and the zillion duplicates. Is there anything you can do to stop it crashing? If so, getting a fix into the Dapper point release would be nice.
[01:23] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 47194 in ubiquity "qtparted seems to crash on some setups; deal with this better?" [Medium,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/47194
[01:23] <Kamion> (I'm not sure if all of those are related to NTFS though)
[01:24] <Kamion> unfortunately there's no particularly easy way to get a crash dump from people, and it doesn't seem to output anything on stderr when it crashes
[01:25] <Riddell> Kamion: is there a way to create NTFS partitions so I could try it out?
[01:25] <Kamion> install Windows
[01:26] <Riddell> tricky, no windows CD here
[01:26] <Kamion> ntfstools might be able to do it
[01:26] <Kamion> dunno - I doubt it happens on all NTFS filesystems
[01:26] <Kamion> I think only ones that are subtly buggered
[01:27] <Kamion> is it possible to try to trace through the qtparted code and make sure that it handles NTFS check failures gracefully?
[01:27] <fabbione> Kamion: speaking of point release, we left a couple of sparc changes in the middle. I was wondering if after knot1 we can start looking at them and possibly start to push them in the archive. Mainly so that i can build a custom d-i for pre-testing
[01:27] <Kamion> fabbione: sure
[01:28] <fabbione> Kamion: thanks that would be just awesome.
[01:28] <Kamion> remind me afterwards
[01:28] <fabbione> yup
[01:29] <Hobbsee> I dont think i found that ntfs bug on the dapper ubuntu cd that i tried, with ubiquity.  i never tested kubuntu cd, so i'm probably not much help.
[01:29] <Lathiat> Riddell: i could create an ntfs image for you?
[01:30] <Riddell> Lathiat: on my machine?
[01:30] <Lathiat> no but i could dd it off?
[01:30] <Lathiat> and send?
[01:30] <Lathiat> how large does it need to be?
[01:30] <Lathiat> altho fi i zero it first should compress ok
[01:30] <Riddell> not large
[01:31] <Lathiat> name a size?
[01:32] <Robot101> sladen: daf was packaging it for Debian I think, but then at guadec I heard that dholbach had packaged most of it for Ubuntu anyway
[01:36] <zul> pitti: im just uploading breezy/hoary kernels now
[01:36] <pitti> zul: thanks
[01:36] <pitti> zul: I already released the dapper one this morning, since this was quite urgent
[01:36] <zul> i saw that
[01:38] <Riddell> Lathiat: 10MB
[01:38] <Kamion> Lathiat: we have no idea - I'm not sure random NTFS filesystems will help
[01:38] <Kamion> Lathiat: needs to be one that we know the Kubuntu CD crashes on, really
[01:38] <Kamion> er Kubuntu ubiquity
[01:38] <Lathiat> hm right
[01:38] <Lathiat> when does it crash? resizing?
[01:39] <Lathiat> or just magically?
[01:39] <Riddell> seb128: what's the best way to get a patch into launchpad-integration?
[01:39] <Lathiat> cus i can try the iso and see if it crashes?
[01:39] <Kamion> Lathiat: I believe it's when they go into the advanced partitioner, do pretty much anything, and then say Next
[01:39] <Lathiat> where do i get the iso?
[01:39] <Kamion> I don't generally get a whole lot of detail
[01:39] <Riddell> kubuntu.org/download.php
[01:39] <Kamion> http://releases.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/dapper/
[01:39] <Lathiat> oh dapper?
[01:39] <Kamion> yes
[01:39] <Lathiat> im pretty sure i've installed kubuntu dapper ..
[01:39] <Lathiat> cant remember if it was final
[01:40] <Lathiat> i'll give it a shot, cant hurt
[01:40] <Mithrandir> oh, grrrrrrrr, now it managed to start the daemon.
[01:41] <Mithrandir> but my background is slate, not brown
[01:43] <Riddell> Mithrandir: it's still doing edubuntu livefs's?
[01:43] <Mithrandir> Riddell: yeah.  The sparc is slow as molasses.
[01:44] <Mithrandir> Riddell: eta ~15 minutes
[01:49] <Mithrandir> ogra: edubuntu built.
[01:50] <ogra> thanks !
[02:00] <Kamion> Riddell: could you also review the kde-ui changes in r1403 in my ubiquity branch?
[02:00] <Kamion> I haven't tested them ...
[02:02] <Kamion> Riddell: of course it's still not perfect - if gparted/qtparted keep crashing, then ubiquity should give up
[02:02] <Kamion> and tell the user
[02:03] <Kamion> hmm, actually that's relatively easy to do isn't it ...
[02:03] <Riddell> Kamion: looking..
[02:08] <Mithrandir> ogra: the livefs didn't work due to an untested change to the livefs build script.  Sorry; I'll rebuild it once we've tested the change properly.
[02:10] <ogra> oki
[02:10] <infinity> ogra: You can blame me for not testing.  Or blame Mithrandir for having the machines blocked when I wanted to test.  Pick one. :)
[02:10] <infinity> I need to clear up some disk space to test livefs changes locally again.
[02:11] <ogra> infinity, pfft i'll take our best whipping boy and just blame launchpad :P
[02:12] <pitti> ogra: you mean it's a GTK bug?
[02:12] <Mithrandir> it's the bug comment ordering's fault! :-P
[02:12] <infinity> I prefer to blame launchpad only when it's actually at fault, so we get heard. :)
[02:12] <infinity> Blaming GTK is fair game, though.
[02:12] <ogra> pitti, yeah ... 
[02:12] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: everything's the fault of that, yes.  that sends everyone crazy, then they understand nothing. :P
[02:14] <infinity> Grr, security really needs to move back to the DC...
[02:14] <pitti> infinity+++++++++++
[02:14] <pitti> OTOH, I mean, it's just *yet* another 45 minutes of delay...
[02:15] <infinity> Oh, for the love of.  Options come AFTER the source/dest args?  WHO WROTE THIS TOOL?
[02:15] <Mithrandir> infinity: oh yeah, I forgot to tell you that, didn't I?  It's crackful.
[02:24] <infinity> Whee, why is it failing there?  I didn't break that part...
[02:28] <maswan> infinity: Yes, we're going to do that. We were planning on doing that after this kernel bandwidth peak.
[02:31] <seb128> Riddell: open a bug with it on the launchpad-integration package
[02:32] <Kamion> Riddell: another untested patch (r1404) in my branch to stick up crash dialogs if gparted or qtparted crash so that we don't spin repeatedly reinvoking them. (I'll test before release; I just wanted to get the patch out of the way.)
[02:32] <Riddell> Kamion: it's still branching..
[02:34] <infinity> Mithrandir: Okay, I think it's sorted now.
[02:36] <Mithrandir> infinity: I'll build edubuntu and kubuntu livefs-es, then
[02:36] <Mithrandir> infinity: thanks
[02:38] <ogra> hmm, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily-live/20060718/ looks a bit weird ...
[02:38] <ogra> seems i got dapper isos :P
[02:38] <infinity> Picky, picky,
[02:39] <Hobbsee> ogra: hehe...who wants edgy iso's anyway.....
[02:39] <Kamion> ogra: yeah, easy to fix
[02:39] <Kamion> it's a quirk of the CD build system changes done in the dapper cycle
[02:39] <ogra> i just noted that my rsync script fails ... it looks fo redgy :)
[02:40] <Kamion> fixed
[02:40] <Kamion> oh, hang on, you got ONLY dapper ISOs
[02:40] <Hobbsee> seb128: Riddell:  assuming you're talking about the browser launchpad-integration opens with, there's a bug listed at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/launchpad-integration/+bug/3810 and i added my comments to it
[02:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 3810 in launchpad-integration "Launching "Get help online" from a browser should launch within that browser" [Medium,Confirmed]  
[02:40] <Kamion> ogra: so, you know the way I asked you recently to check the build log before talking to me?
[02:41] <Kamion> ogra: did you listen? :-P
[02:41] <ogra> Kamion, i know that this livefs is broken ... but at some point i need something to rsync on
[02:41] <ogra> else it'll take me days to download 
[02:41] <Kamion> ogra: you need to rm -f ~/.ssh/known_hosts on lithium, because a lot of host keys have changed; and furthermore there was no livefs at all for lithium to fetch from any of the buildds
[02:42] <Kamion> it's not so much broken as NOT THERE
[02:42] <Kamion> at least not at the time of build
[02:42] <ogra> hmm
[02:42] <Kamion> it might be there now
[02:43] <Kamion> looks like it was a casualty of the livefs build bug that infinity and Mithrandir were discussing above.
[02:43] <ogra> yep
[02:50] <seb128> Hobbsee: I rather think he's speaking about lpi for KDE
[02:50] <Hobbsee> seb128: huh?
[02:52] <seb128> Hobbsee: what?
[02:53] <Mithrandir> so, it appears that gnome-settings-daemon will fail to start if it takes more than 25 seconds.  Which can conceivably happen when you're booting a live cd.
[02:53] <Hobbsee> seb128: were you originally referring to my comment about the bug report, said above?
[02:55] <seb128> Hobbsee: no, replying to "assuming you're talking about the browse"
[02:56] <Hobbsee> seb128: yeah, right.  the same thing as what i'm referring to.  i'm a KDE user...
[02:57] <seb128> Hobbsee: let me phrase it again, "no we are not speaking about "open with"", but about launchpad-integration (apt-cache show launchpad-integration)
[02:57] <Mithrandir> seb128: do you have any ideas what to do about the problem I'm talking about above or should we just ignore it?
[02:57] <Hobbsee> seb128: ohh...sorry.  FYI, Riddell's just got a patch about fixing the "use the default browser" patch for kde...
[02:57] <seb128> Mithrandir: the flicking menu one? not good to ignore, but if you commented on the bug with bt and log I didn't read it yet
[02:58] <Mithrandir> seb128: no, the "I don't get my brown colours" one.
[02:58] <Mithrandir> seb128: on the live cd.
[02:58] <seb128> Hobbsee: I don't use about KDE and I didn't know he was not using the right browser ... for dapper only Ubuntu had lpi, I think the discussion is rather about getting the feature for kubuntu too no?
[02:59] <seb128> Mithrandir: ah, the gnome-settings-daemon, did read enough backlog when coming back :p
[02:59] <seb128> Mithrandir: does starting it by hand works fine?
[02:59] <Hobbsee> seb128: unless i'm going totally mad, which is quite possible, it came into kubuntu edgy today.
[03:00] <seb128> Hobbsee: ok, please stop trying to stop to that conversation, you seem to have better information than me, I don't use KDE
[03:00] <Mithrandir> seb128: it's actually started automatically after the dialog complains about it not starting quickly enough.
[03:00] <seb128> Hobbsee: if it landed to KDE it might be a discussion about having that code shipped with the previous launchpad-integration source package
[03:01] <seb128> Mithrandir: weird, now gnome-session starts it over dbus ... I'm wondering if that could be a dbus issue
[03:01] <seb128> Mithrandir: like the session bus starting late or something
[03:01] <Mithrandir> seb128: it's a timeout.  The default dbus timeout is 25 seconds and I wouldn't be surprised if it could take more than that to start stuff when booting the live cd.
[03:02] <seb128> Hobbsee: so, no, that's not what we are speaking about to reply to your first question
[03:02] <seb128> Hobbsee: I didn't know that kubuntu got lpi yet and I didn't know about that bug
[03:02] <Hobbsee> seb128: okay, i'm sorry.
[03:02] <seb128> np
[03:04] <seb128> Hobbsee: your comment to https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/launchpad-integration/+bug/3810 is confusing too
[03:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 3810 in launchpad-integration "Launching "Get help online" from a browser should launch within that browser" [Medium,Confirmed]  
[03:04] <seb128> Hobbsee: the bug is about "if you click on a lpi item from firefox, it opens a new window instead of loading the page to the window you used for the click"
[03:04] <Hobbsee> seb128: okay, ignore my comment.
[03:05] <seb128> Hobbsee: it's not about what app is started
[03:05] <Hobbsee> oh shit, i'm really reading things wrong tonight.
[03:07] <seb128> Mithrandir: is that happening with all the CDs atm? I would need to try ... maybe we can change the timeout as a workaround?
[03:07] <dholbach> Robot101: i'll work with daf together to get it done and included in ubuntu
[03:08] <Mithrandir> seb128: seems to be all CDs, yes, but it appears gnome-settings-daemon isn't the only problem.  The theme is just wrong too.
[03:08] <Mithrandir> seb128: isn't "Human" supposed to be default?
[03:09] <seb128> Mithrandir: without gnome-settings-daemon no theme is applied
[03:09] <ogra> themes are overrated on alpha quality CDs
[03:09] <seb128> Mithrandir: and yes, Human is supposed to be the default one
[03:09] <Mithrandir> seb128: but gsd is running now and I still have the seagreen background.
[03:10] <seb128> Mithrandir: the background is not part of the theme
[03:10] <seb128> Mithrandir: are the GTK theme and icons correct?
[03:10] <Mithrandir> seb128: the icons are wrong too; appears to be clearlooks.
[03:10] <Mithrandir> almost, at least
[03:11] <seb128> gconftool-2 --get /desktop/gnome/interface/gtk_theme ?
[03:11] <seb128> gconftool-2 --get /desktop/gnome/interface/icon_theme ?
[03:11] <Mithrandir> Clearlooks and gnome, respectively.
[03:12] <seb128> right, same on my box
[03:12] <Mithrandir> that's wrong, isn't it?
[03:12] <seb128> looks loke the .gconf-defaults has been dropped when merging with Debian
[03:12] <seb128> should I fix that now?
[03:12] <seb128> that's a libgnome update
[03:12] <Mithrandir> hmm, let me think a little.
[03:12] <Mithrandir> what about the background?
[03:13] <seb128> probably same reason
[03:13] <Kamion> Mithrandir: partman's unhappy here, on a blank disk
[03:13] <Mithrandir> even though artwork isn't crucial for an alpha, I think we should have it in place.
[03:13] <Mithrandir> Kamion: alternate?
[03:13] <seb128> Mithrandir: I think too
[03:14] <Mithrandir> seb128: ok, go ahead and upload with fixed gconf-defaults.
[03:14] <seb128> dholbach: you did that merge :p
[03:14] <seb128> Mithrandir: ok, fixing that now
[03:14] <Mithrandir> seb128: thanks.
[03:14] <infinity> Mithrandir: Okay, looks better now, you should be on track.  I'm off.
[03:14] <seb128> np
[03:14] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yeah
[03:14] <Kamion> trying to track it down now
[03:15] <Mithrandir> infinity: yay, thanks.  Sleep well, or whatever you're off to.
[03:15] <Mithrandir> Kamion: any idea if it affects ubiquity?
[03:15] <Kamion> Mithrandir: also, I have a gparted crash fix affecting XFS. Upload now or wait?
[03:15] <Kamion> Mithrandir: no idea yet, will take a while to determine
[03:15] <Mithrandir> Kamion: how big is the diff?
[03:15] <Mithrandir> if it's small enough, upload.
[03:15] <Mithrandir> if it's big, I'd like to at least eyeball it
[03:17] <Kamion> -               output = output .substr( output .find( "fdblocks" ) ) ;
[03:17] <Kamion> -               if ( sscanf( output .c_str(), "fdblocks = %Ld", &N ) != 1 )
[03:17] <Kamion> +               index = output .find( "fdblocks" ) ;
[03:17] <Kamion> +               if ( index >= output .length() ||
[03:17] <Kamion> +                    sscanf( output .substr( index ) .c_str(), "fdblocks = %Ld", &N ) != 1 )
[03:17] <Kamion> about that big
[03:17] <Mithrandir> ew, evil C++ style.
[03:17] <seb128> grrrraa
[03:17] <Kamion> (the crash comes when output.find returns "not found" which is (size_t)-1 which when fed to substr() throws an exception
[03:17] <Kamion> )
[03:17] <seb128> dholbach dropped all the Ubuntu customizations to libgnome
[03:17] <seb128> the sound events list too
[03:17] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ah, just upload, then
[03:18] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yeah, gparted isn't fun to hack on due to that style
[03:18] <seb128> Mithrandir: I'm fixing the sounds event list with the same upload :p
[03:18] <Mithrandir> seb128: please do.
[03:18] <dholbach> seb128: sorry
[03:18] <Mithrandir> seb128: that's less crucial, though.  I assume it's all just gconf defaults so it's safe anyway.
[03:18] <seb128> dholbach: that's fine :)
[03:18] <seb128> Mithrandir: no, it's not gconf, that's a file to etc but no issue with it
[03:22] <Mithrandir> ogra: do you want a rebuild once we have the new libgnome in or are you overriding the themes etc anyway?
[03:23] <ogra> Mithrandir, my themes on the 17.1 cd were fine ...
[03:23] <ogra> but i havent tested 18.1 yet 
[03:23] <Mithrandir> ogra: let's hope they still are, then. :-)
[03:23] <ogra> :)
[03:24] <ogra> but i dont really care to be honest ... its alpha ...
[03:24] <Mithrandir> ogra: ok, that's your choice, obviously.
[03:24] <ogra> oh, and we're tlaking about the liveCD, right ? i havent had any successfull build yet :)
[03:25] <Mithrandir> ogra: yeah, live cd.  You manage your install cds yourself.
[03:26] <ogra> so i guess i'll get it for free anyway ;)
[03:26] <Mithrandir> not if the current livefs-es end up working
[03:28] <Mithrandir> ogra: you don't care about sparc livecds, do you?
[03:28] <Kamion> I never build sparc live CDs for Edubuntu
[03:28] <Kamion> or live filesystems
[03:29] <Kamion> for projects other than ubuntu|kubuntu|ubuntu-server, I just build on king, terranova, and royal
[03:29] <ogra> Mithrandir, not really, but fabbione might get unhappy :)
[03:29] <Mithrandir> Screw fabio. ;-P
[03:30] <ogra> i cant, we share a room at the sprint ... i dont want to have pinhead in the other bed in the room :)
[03:34] <fabbione> Mithrandir: tsk :P
[03:35] <fabbione> Mithrandir: we will work on sparc livefs sometimes after knot-1
[03:36] <fabbione> Mithrandir: so just skip it for now
[03:36] <Mithrandir> fabbione: yeah, I know.  No worries.
[03:36] <fabbione> Mithrandir: perfect
[03:36] <Mithrandir> fabbione: but I suspect you won't do an edubuntu livefs?
[03:36] <Chipzz> something I wrote recently in case anyone cares: http://chipzz.studentenweb.org/pageant/
[03:37] <Chipzz> feedback is welcome :)
[03:37] <Chipzz> and yes it probably also needs a new name ;P
[03:38] <fabbione> Mithrandir: as it stands i will be pleased to have ubuntu livecd working and if derivates want livecd, they will have to do it and test it
[03:49] <Kamion> woo, bug comment ordering back to normal
[03:49] <Kamion> ... or not
[03:49] <Kamion> back to normal *sometimes*. how weird. :)
[03:50] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:50] <Hobbsee> that's goign to drive me more insane, i think
[04:21] <Kamion> ah, no, just parted_devices returning nothing apparently
[04:21] <Kamion> haha, I forgot to add disks to the vmware instance
[04:31] <Kamion> ok, fixed the two bugs thusly exposed
[04:32] <Kamion> no particular necessity to have them in knot-1 but I've tested them both anyway
[05:19] <fabbione> Kamion: can you please add to the openais UVF exception reasons that it also fix a major failover/fencing loop bug?
[05:21] <Kamion> ok
[05:21] <fabbione> Kamion: thanks
[06:02] <toma> '
[06:03] <sharms2> I noticed a new patch for WPA and Prism54 drivers, I am guessing there is no way to get this into edgy, or is there some way I can make like a "module" package that I can include on a personal repository?
[06:03] <slomo> are autosyncs from debian for universe still running or is this manual now?
[06:04] <pitti> slomo: manual
[06:04] <pitti> slomo: we don't autosync since UVF any more
[06:05] <Kamion> sharms2: talk to the kernel maintainers
[06:05] <bluefoxicy> I wish someone would write up wifi drivers for everything.
[06:05] <Kamion> it should be possible to get new driver patches in at this point
[06:06] <bluefoxicy> I hear freebsd has wifi drivers for a lot more than Linux, but nobody's announced effort to port yet; and porting quietly is kind of stupid, then you have 6 people doing duplicate work >/
[06:08] <mjg59> ?
[06:08] <mjg59> I don't think there are any cards supported in FreeBSD without having a Linux driver
[06:08] <giftnudel_> maybe the support is better?
[06:09] <mjg59> They're in the kernel, unlike Linux
[06:10] <mjg59> Where they're scattered all over the place
[06:10] <mjg59> But, to some extent, we support pretty much every wireless card available now
[06:10] <sharms2> Kamion: the driver patch itself is very untested right now
[06:10] <mjg59> sharms2: Push it to Ben, it'll probably get applied
[06:11] <giftnudel_> there is a post on planet.gnome.org about it
[06:11] <sharms2> yeah that is what I am referencing
[06:11] <sharms2> what is ben's nick?
[06:11] <giftnudel_> benc
[06:14] <Kamion> Mithrandir: Ubuntu alternate i386 OK
[06:14] <Kamion> apart from starting up without the Human theme of course
[06:51] <Kamion> Mithrandir: Ubuntu desktop i386 also seems ok for me modulo the theme problem.
[06:52] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I'd suggest not worrying about it too much. For the first milestone, "it sort of works, ship it" is OK ...
[07:04] <gnomefreak> update-manager with the -d option should not upgrade to edgy yet right?
[07:05] <Kamion> -d => development release, so I'd expect it to
[07:06] <gnomefreak> Kamion: it hasnt worked yet so i figured maybe it wasnt configured to yet and now im seeing a bug on it
[07:10] <Kamion> gnomefreak: perhaps mvo hasn't set it up yet
[07:11] <Kamion> status way-too-damn-impatient
[07:11] <Kamion> subscribe mvo to the bug, anyway
[07:11] <gnomefreak> i dont think people should use edgy for normal use anyway
[07:11] <gnomefreak> ok
[07:11] <sladen> gnomefreak: correct.  Not yet
[07:11] <dholbach> i doubt he's going to set it up anytime soon (especially given that dapper is supported on the desktop for 3 years) :)
[07:11] <gnomefreak> since*
[07:12] <sladen> gnomefreak: okay, if you're willing to help with the testing, that's very much appreciated
[07:12] <gnomefreak> sladen: always love testing
[07:13] <gnomefreak> mvo = micheal vogel <<< that mvo
[07:13] <dholbach> Michael VOGT
[07:13] <gnomefreak> k
[07:14] <gnomefreak> ok one down one to go
[07:14] <gnomefreak> Tonio_: did hobbsee drop off kaffeine issue to you?
[07:14] <Tonio_> gnomefreak: yes, I didn't upload the good package....
[07:14] <gnomefreak> ok cool
[07:14] <Tonio_> the new one is just beeing uploaded
[07:14] <Tonio_> and this time it works
[07:14] <gnomefreak> ;)
[07:15] <Tonio_> gnomefreak: you cannot imagin how stupid it is....
[07:15] <gnomefreak> its the .la files
[07:15] <Tonio_> I simply uploaded a package without kaffeine-xine.install file :)
[07:15] <gnomefreak> omg
[07:15] <gnomefreak> it happens
[07:16] <sladen> gnomefreak: if you're wondering, dholbach is mvo's favourate fanboy :)
[07:16] <zul> dholbach: where is the fun in that on not running edgy
[07:16] <Tonio_> sometimes yes ;)
[07:16] <gnomefreak> :)
[07:17] <Tonio_> new gwenview is beeing uploaded actually too :)
[07:24] <Tonio_> Riddell: ping ?
[07:24] <Riddell> Tonio_: hi
[07:24] <Tonio_> hey Riddell
[07:25] <Tonio_> Riddell: raphink suggests me to ask toonight at TB concerning coredev (he looks borded uploading my packages ^^)
[07:25] <Tonio_> isn't that a bit late to ask ?
[07:25] <raphink> haha
[07:25] <raphink> Tonio_: I really think you can go for it
[07:25] <Riddell> Tonio_: do it
[07:26] <Riddell> make sure your wiki page is up to date of course
[07:26] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay, I'l try at least
[07:26] <Tonio_> Riddell: it won't, I have so many things to do on it...
[07:26] <Tonio_> or maybe if I go right now....
[07:26] <raphink> the TB is in 2 hours and a half
[07:27] <Tonio_> okay I can do it... let's go
[07:28] <Riddell> Tonio_: find some example packages you can use to show your leet skills
[07:28] <Tonio_> Riddell: yes, I know the good examples (kds and knetworkmanager for example
[07:28] <Tonio_> and the bunch of patches I did for kdebase too
[07:45] <Toadstool> Kamion: hi, Gloubiboulga_ will confirm the gnome-sudoku sync as soon as he gets back to his computer ;)
[07:47] <pitti> fabbione, infinity: OO.o2 breezy-security build on vivies (sparc) failed due to 'no space left' :(
[07:50] <^robertj> heya all, where do packages go after they are synced? do they not show in launchpad until they are autobuilt?
[07:52] <pitti> Kamion: can you check whether vmware-player kernel modules for dapper-security are still in NEW?
[07:58] <Kamion> ^robertj: new packages land in the new queue
[07:58] <Kamion> pitti: have to go out now, remind me when I'm next around?
[08:04] <bluefoxicy> should I file a bug if I can hit system->administration->time and date; hit the checkbox for automatic synchronization of time; and it says to install NTP support
[08:05] <bluefoxicy> so I install ntp, ntp-simple, and ntp-server, and it doesn't fix it... that's a bug, right?
[08:05] <mjg59> bluefoxicy: That depends. Did you install ntpdate?
[08:05] <bluefoxicy> (yes I'm busy going through the 40 clicks it takes to get into launchpad)
[08:05] <bluefoxicy> mjg59:  ntpdate can't be removed without removing ubuntu-minimal, so yes it was already installed.
[08:06] <mjg59> Then yes, it's probably a bug
[08:06] <bluefoxicy> oh
[08:06] <bluefoxicy> there's no /etc/init.d/ntpdate either, or ntpanything for that matter until ntpserver is installed... that probably the problem?
[08:06] <bluefoxicy> (edgy...)
[08:06] <mjg59> Dunno
[08:09] <bluefoxicy> filing.. https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/38610 looks like breakage in dapper but has a work-around, not working for me.  Should I file a separate bug or note the problem is even worse in edgy on same bug?
[08:09] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 38610 in Ubuntu "Time: no synchronise option" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  
[08:11] <Riddell> Kamion: patch for ubiquity at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/53367
[08:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 53367 in ubiquity "Ubiquity crash (Edgy)" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  
[08:14] <pitti> Kamion: sure
[08:27] <Riddell> Kamion: I'm getting "raise InstallStepError("HwDetect failed with code %d" % code)" when installing with ubiquity 1.1.0
[09:04] <bluefoxicy> re https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntegratedDesktopSearch has anyone packaged Tracker yet or is working on it?
[09:05] <slomo> afaik no (for both questions)
[09:06] <bluefoxicy> the upstream author has some debs, I wonder if I could get his source packages
[09:06] <bluefoxicy> nautilus tracker integration gets a separate package, so I'd assume there's some nautilus debian/ directory hacks going on in that
[09:07] <LaserJock> or maybe the author is using checkinstall ;-)
[09:07] <slomo> and patching of the nautilus source probably... but just ask him for the source packages ;)
[09:07] <bluefoxicy> AFAIK there's no patch to nautilus itself, it's got tracker code right in the official source tree, activates it if tracker is around
[09:07] <bluefoxicy> slomo:  nautilus since some version should have it.
[09:08] <bluefoxicy> "Once you have installed Tracker and have some indexed contents, you should now compile Nautilus (ver 2.13.4 or higher) which should auto detect that tracker is installed and automatically compile in tracker support."
[09:10] <LaserJock> but it still requires recompiling after tracker is installed?
[09:10] <slomo> seems like it
[09:10] <LaserJock> that's going to be interesting
[09:11] <bluefoxicy> LaserJock:  he has a deb for tracker integration into nautilus.  I assume that this would mean 1) tracker (and a lib tracker depends on that's currently in universe) goes into main; 2) nautilus gets a build-dep on tracker-dev; 3) we emit an extra nautilus package.
[09:11] <slomo> would mean that we would need to get tracker into main to get nautilus support for it... and as we don't have packages for it anywhere and nobody is working on it i doubt that we get this for edgy
[09:11] <bluefoxicy> that being a nautilus plug-in probably.
[09:11] <slomo> and i also doubt that tracker is already ready for wide use but well :) we have to see
[09:12] <bluefoxicy> it doesn't matter with edgy as much, as long as it works right?  IIRC tracker doesn't have the ability to autoparse as much meta-data as things like beagle, namely e-mail and IM logs.
[09:12] <bluefoxicy> aside from that I've heard it's pretty stable
[09:13] <bluefoxicy> "The very energetic move would be for Ubuntu/Canonical to sponsor Jamie to work on Tracker. This would be a move that would position Ubuntu/Canonical has bleeding edge technology contributors to the free desktop along side Novell and Red Hat."  <-- very nice but keep dreaming, moving corporate money around means getting corporate big-shots VERY interested
[09:14] <bluefoxicy> I would imagine that would happen if sabdfl was a hard-core tracker fan :P
[09:14] <bluefoxicy> otherwise no
[09:15] <bluefoxicy> slomo:  there's been buzz here and there about beagle/tracker/glscube on ubuntu-users@ and ubuntu-devel@ too, might be more information about whether it breaks/works/is lacking things/etc
[09:18] <tseng> bluefoxicy: there is buzz about tracker everywhere
[09:18] <tseng> bluefoxicy: alot of it is based on features that arent built yet, certainly not the same level as beagle
[09:18] <mdke> gotta love buzz
[09:18] <tseng> pretty tiring
[09:18] <slomo> bluefoxicy: i don't really care about such stuff :) but from what i heard tracker is just not there yet and i don't see a good reason to reimplement the wheel instead of improving beagle here... seems mostly be caused by "C is much faster"...
[09:18] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  nods, I noticed that too.  "tracker will eventually be able to index .desktop files for gnome" is silly.
[09:19] <slomo> hmm... "for gnome"? isn't xfce using .desktop files and kde in the future too?
[09:19] <bluefoxicy> slomo:  Tracker is much faster, I hear, they just attribute it to C (possibly properly, possibly not, that's not the issue).  I also hear it uses much less memory.  Mine has 8.2 megs resident.
[09:20] <tseng> things with less features often use less memory
[09:20] <bluefoxicy> yeah
[09:20] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  for me there's also the issue that I've never actually seen beagle live up to any of its claims at all.
[09:20] <tseng> lets not get caught up with what tracker might or might not be
[09:20] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  in fact, the most I've seen beagle do is crash :P
[09:21] <tseng> bluefoxicy: i havent crashed it in months.
[09:21] <mjg59> bluefoxicy: Ah, but by the same token I've never even seen Tracker start up correctly
[09:21] <slomo> bluefoxicy: are there bug reports for the crashes? it doesn't crash for me (but likes to use much ram sometimes :) )
[09:21] <mjg59> (I've never seen it start up incorrectly either, but that's not the point)
[09:21] <bluefoxicy> mjg59: I got trackerd loaded, just nothing to use to do a search.  It'd be nice if he had a stand-alone search UI >:|
[09:21] <mjg59> Beagle works fine here, but, well.
[09:22] <mjg59> The plural of "anecdote" is not "data"
[09:22] <tseng> you should post that to ddl
[09:22] <tseng> next to a comment about phallic objects
[09:23] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  i'm most interested in that tracker is apparently integrated with gnome tbh, and that it's not mono.  Both of those.  On equal ground.
[09:23] <Burgwork> mjg59, damn we need a quote engine. That was good
[09:23] <mjg59> Burgwork: Not original, I'm afraid
[09:23] <tseng> Burgwork: havent you run into mjg59 in person?
[09:23] <mjg59> Results 1 - 10 of about 61,400 for "plural of anecdote".
[09:23] <bluefoxicy> or well, integrated with nautilus mainline.
[09:23] <Burgwork> tseng, I have never met the person
[09:23] <tseng> Burgwork: its one a minute
[09:23] <tseng> ah, thats too bad
[09:23] <mjg59> "Not mono" isn't a selling point
[09:23] <mjg59> "Well integrated" is
[09:24] <tseng> beagle is integrated in mainline, and a few other places, more in SLED
[09:24] <tseng> (mainline nautilus)
[09:24] <bluefoxicy> mjg59:  "not afflicted with the overhead of loading a virtual machine into memory and having its executable pages actually require physical RAM for each individual instance of the process because runtime generated code cannot be mmap()'d and shared" then.
[09:24] <tseng> tracker cant index muhc of anything, and isnt integrated anywhere
[09:24] <tseng> which would be fine if people werent trying so hard to sell it
[09:24] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  interesting.
[09:25] <mjg59> When tracker is feature-comparable with Beagle, we'll worry about things
[09:25] <bluefoxicy> Is it possible to use both, but not make it mandatory?
[09:25] <mjg59> What /would/ be worthwhile would be cooperation between the two projects on defining an interface for querying indexing systems
[09:25] <zul> ./unignore bluefoxicy
[09:25] <bluefoxicy> i.e. have integration packages for Nautilus+Tracker/Beagle?
[09:25] <tseng> zul: not worth it.
[09:25] <bluefoxicy> mjg59:  or that.
[09:25] <mjg59> So applications don't have to care
[09:25] <slomo> bluefoxicy: hm, mono is using much shared memory... not sure whether this is for code too ;)
[09:27] <tseng> in beagle especially i hear from alot of people they just stopped using it instead of filing bugs or doing anything at all proactive
[09:28] <tseng> "plugged in" people who know better
[09:30] <slomo> well, i stopped using it because it always ran in the background but i never actually used it :P
[09:33] <LaserJock> well, tracker would make a great Universe package if the nautilus recompiling thing was worked out
[09:35] <slomo> LaserJock: i don't think that is possible
[09:36] <LaserJock> slomo: that's a pretty serious deficiency then, IMO
[09:37] <bluefoxicy> http://rafb.net/paste/results/7ffomk32.html  so much for that
[09:37] <slomo> LaserJock: why? it integrates very tightly into nautilus afaik... same as beagle does
[09:38] <slomo> bluefoxicy: dapper or edgy?
[09:38] <LaserJock> slomo: if users have to recompile Nautilus just to use the thing ...
[09:39] <slomo> bluefoxicy: edgy obviously... ok, i think there is a problem with evolution-sharp right now because of the changed e-d-s API/ABI... should work fine with the evolution stuff disabled (i.e. removing beagle-evolution or how the package was called) until we fixed that ;)
[09:39] <mjg59> eds appears broken there
[09:40] <slomo> bluefoxicy: could you please a bug for this (well, look whether there already is one) and assign it to me? i'll look at it when i find some time for it
[09:43] <toma> fabbione: ping
[09:44] <bluefoxicy> slomo:  edgy but I've done it with dapper without evolution, normally it spits out memory addresses
[09:46] <slomo> bluefoxicy: and then start beagled --fg --debug
[09:47] <slomo> bluefoxicy: then beagle-search for searching for example... but the wrapper script is broken too right now ;) just change sh to bash in the first line of it...
[09:48] <bluefoxicy> I thought beagle had a pretty GUI
[09:48] <slomo> beagle-search is a pretty gui :P
[09:49] <bluefoxicy> bug 53337
[09:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 53337 in gedit "gedit crashes X on large xml file" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/53337
[09:51] <bluefoxicy> slomo:  interesting.
[09:52] <slomo> bluefoxicy: why?
[09:52] <Hobbsee> morning all!
[09:54] <gnomefreak> morning Hobbsee 
[09:54] <bluefoxicy> slomo:  beagled is running, it's indexed ~/writing/ fully, or so I think.. I searched for 'linker' (optimizing linker load times, the article I'm writing for LWN right now), nothing found.
[09:54] <bluefoxicy> Debug: Parsed query 'linker' as text_query
[09:55] <tseng> how long has it been running?
[09:55] <slomo> tseng: ~2 minutes at most :P
[09:55] <tseng> im guessing you just started it, as you claimed before you never saw it do anything but crash
[09:55] <tseng> yeah.
[09:55] <bluefoxicy> tseng:  it ran for a couple minutes before it crashed last time, I figured it had to get somewhere.
[09:55] <tseng> eh
[09:56] <tseng> it starts at the begining
[09:56] <bluefoxicy> but the --debug output isn't saying "I'm indexing files"
[09:56] <tseng> every time
[09:56] <tseng> it uses xattr to know where its already been
[09:56] <bluefoxicy> ..... oh.  Maybe it doesn't tell me what it's doing.
[09:56] <tseng> you run beagled --fg --debug
[09:56] <bluefoxicy> yeah I did
[09:56] <tseng> then it tells you.
 bluefoxicy: and then start beagled --fg --debug
[09:56] <slomo> tseng: what was the env variable to force indexing?
[09:57] <tseng> EXERCISE_THE_DOG=1
[09:57] <slomo> that's what he needs right now to get everything indexed as fast as possible and not only in the background :P
[09:57] <tseng> turns off the friendlier scheduling
[09:57] <bluefoxicy> what the jesus.  It just started indexing things.  It's indexing web sites!
[09:58] <tseng> from rss? or from firefox plugin
[09:58] <bluefoxicy> oh THAT explains it, it found an rss feed.
[09:58] <tseng> yes.
[09:58] <tseng> it reads blam/lifrea feeds
[09:58] <slomo> tseng: it indexes epiphany cache/bookmarks too, right?
[09:58] <tseng> I have to say this is getting pretty far off topic
[09:58] <tseng> slomo: i think you need to build-dep on ephy and build a plugin for that
[09:59] <slomo> tseng: sounds like something we want to do then ;)
[09:59] <tseng> yes
[10:00] <slomo> ok... so we have the following for beagle: wv1/gsf-sharp to main, epiphany build-depends, evolution-sharp fixing for the new API/ABI ;) will you do it?
[10:00] <tseng> evo-sharp api? no thanks :)
[10:01] <tseng> where is lukas :)
[10:01] <slomo> ok, i'll do it then ;) i hope it's only soname changing...
[10:01] <Kamion> Riddell: applied, thanks
[10:02] <Kamion> Riddell: well, then, hw-detect is failing :) /var/log/syslog may say why
[10:02] <bluefoxicy> Hey I bet I can search for "new vulnerabilities" with this thing, it'll probably return loads of old stuff from bugtraq and cert
[10:06] <Hobbsee> hi pitti 
[10:16] <toma> Hobbsee: can you upload already?
[10:17] <Hobbsee> toma: no idea, havent tried yet.  in truth, i dont have any uploads for universe this second, i've been workign on main.
[10:17] <tseng> slomo: good luck
[10:17] <Hobbsee> toma: i might have to bug ogra to upload or something, after this knot 1 freeze stops
[10:17] <slomo> tseng: thanks :P
[10:18] <toma> Hobbsee: time for cake!
[10:18] <Keybuk> should be able to
[10:18] <Keybuk> as far as I know, as soon as I click the approve button, you can upload
[10:19] <Hobbsee> toma: hehe, it's a little too early for that still.  but this is an early birthday present
[10:19] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: thanks :)
[10:19] <Kamion> Hobbsee: knot-1 freeze is really just main/restricted; don't worry about it for universe
[10:19] <Keybuk> clicked I should say
[10:19] <Kamion> oh, but reading more closely, I think you knew that
[10:19] <bluefoxicy> crud, it doesn't spit out a plug-in, it just gets bulit in.  *kicks tracker*
[10:20] <ogra> Kamion, so is there another ubiqity uplad planned ? 
[10:20] <Hobbsee> Kamion: yeah, but i've got uploads for main :P
[10:20] <ogra> *upload
[10:20] <Kamion> ogra: probably, given the kde frontend breakage. why?
[10:21] <ogra> i just iscovered it doesnt suffice what i did to te udeb ... i'll need the full change you gave me for it ... so i'd either wait until ubuntu is done and i dont put anything in danger or i have the luck that you do another uplad 
[10:21] <ogra> *the
[10:23] <Hobbsee> ogra: hehe.  i ate them.
[10:23] <ogra> heh
[10:23] <Hobbsee> ogra: i was hungry!  what's the problem?
[10:23] <ogra> with yur first coffee i guess ;)
[10:24] <ogra> add an o where appropriate
[10:24] <Hobbsee> The status of your membership on team "ubuntu-dev" (Ubuntu Development Team)
[10:24] <Hobbsee> was changed from Proposed to Approved.
[10:25] <Hobbsee> yay, thanks Keybuk 
[10:25] <Kamion> ogra: well, ubiquity changes only need a desktop CD rebuild, and ltsp changes only need an alternate CD rebuild
[10:25] <Kamion> ogra: so they're sort of independent really
[10:25] <ogra> hmm, kay
[10:26] <Kamion> and ltsp changes would only need an edubuntu install CD rebuild at that, so they're pretty safe
[10:26] <Mithrandir> Kamion: sorry, I've been out laying the foundation for a new fence in our yard.  Have you had a chance of testing ppc too, by any chance?
[10:27] <ogra> Kamion, well, th eltsp-server(-standalone) packages are in ubuntu as well, but indeed the udeb changes wont affect ubuntu
[10:27] <Kamion> Mithrandir: no, still haven't got a new CD drive
[10:27] <Kamion> to be honest I wouldn't worry much about powerpc
[10:28] <ogra> edubuntu ppc worked fine apart from the ltsp udeb breakage
[10:28] <Kamion> the Kubuntu desktop CD breakage is a bit more annoying though
[10:28] <ogra> i just tested it 
[10:28] <Kamion> ogra: cool, thanks
[10:28] <Hobbsee> Kamion: how'd it break?  i seemed to have missed that bit
[10:28] <ogra> edubuntu workstation worked completely 
[10:28] <Kamion> Hobbsee: bug 53367
[10:28] <ogra> (on ppc)
[10:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 53367 in ubiquity "Ubiquity crash (Edgy)" [Untriaged,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/53367
[10:29] <Kamion> I don't know the exact circumstances; may not have been for everyone
[10:29] <toma> nasty questions to answer before you can become a motu
[10:29] <ogra> Mithrandir, so given the discussion above, are you ok with an upload of ltsp (doesnt affect ubuntu)
[10:29] <Hobbsee> Kamion: ah.
[10:29] <Mithrandir> ogra: you're free to change packages which only touch edubuntu, yes.
[10:30] <ogra> thanks 
[10:34] <toma> Hobbsee: what's the diff between ubuntu-dev and core-dev?
[10:35] <Hobbsee> toma: ubuntu-dev is universe, core is main
[10:35] <toma> oki
[10:51] <mhb> hello everyone, how are the Knot CDs?
[10:51] <ogra> knotted
[10:52] <mhb> ogra: smart answer :o)
[10:53] <mhb> ogra: any wiki page or something like that where I can read more about them?
[10:53] <Kamion> it's not really that organised
[10:53] <mhb> (the first one, I mean, of course)
[10:53] <Kamion> we're slamming all the bits together until they stick, right now
[10:54] <ogra> there will be an announcement that outlines the worst known bugs ...
[10:54] <ogra> apart from that its alpha software 
[10:54] <Zomb> hi
[10:54] <Zomb> stupid question
[10:54] <Hobbsee> Kamion: "bang the rocks together guys!"  heh.  glad to see you have such confidence
[10:54] <Zomb> WTF is loading the ipv6 module all the time?
[10:54] <Zomb> there is even "alias ipv6 off" in modprobe.d/aliases
[10:55] <ogra> Zomb, see topic ... please go to #ubuntu for support 
[10:55] <Zomb> ok
[10:55] <Hobbsee> Zomb: otherwise ogra will get in his miniskirt and pompoms again, and cheer you, telling you to go away :P
[10:55] <Zomb> though I doubt they will know it better
[10:56] <Kamion> I suppose you could try 'blacklist ipv6' in /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist
[10:56] <ogra> Hobbsee, haha, honestly that can scare peope ask elmo about paris :)
[10:56] <BenC> anyone here able to reproduce a crash easily in edgy (or better yet, have a crash that only happens in X, where the backtrace cannot be seen)?
[10:56] <Zomb> Kamion: that is what I did and rebooting now
[10:56] <Hobbsee> ogra: hehe....do tell.....
[10:56] <BenC> a kernel crash that is
[10:57] <Hobbsee> BenC: er, what?  I've never managed to get a kernel crash.
[10:57] <BenC> I don't care if firefox bombs on your favorite porn site :)
[10:57] <BenC> Hobbsee: then you cannot help me :)
[10:57] <BenC> I need guinea pigs for kexec/kdump
[10:57] <Hobbsee> BenC: yeah, unless you can tell me a way to make it crash, and i can try it out for you :P
[10:57] <Hobbsee> BenC: i warn you, my brain istn really here yet.
[10:58] <Hobbsee> BenC: give it a few hours :P
[11:00] <BenC> what I want is someone who is experiencing a reasonable consistent crash in edgy's kernel
[11:00] <gnomefreak> i havent had kernel crash yet in edgy 
[11:00] <BenC> so that the person can run the new kexec/kdump kernel set and see if they can get it to work, and capture the crash
[11:00] <gnomefreak> just the booting issues
[11:01] <Hobbsee> BenC: you didnt make the thing buggy enough that we could crash it!  :P
[11:01] <BenC> well I'm glad everything is so perfect for you ppl :P
[11:01] <gnomefreak> :)
[11:01] <Zomb> Kamion: did not help
[11:01] <BenC> I don't have any crashes either, I'm just forcing them with Alt+SysRQ+c
[11:01] <Zomb> oh, no, it did somehow
[11:01] <Kamion> Zomb: ok, sorry, I'm no expert on this, was just an educated guess
[11:01] <Zomb> now there are other problems
[11:01] <Kamion> er semi-educated
[11:02] <Zomb> thanks, however
[11:02] <Kamion> there may be something that's doing modprobe without the -b option
[11:04] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ok, I'm doing another ubiquity upload for KDE
[11:04] <Kamion> you can ignore it for Ubuntu if you like
[11:05] <Kamion> though I wouldn't complain if it got in :)
[11:05] <BenC> acpi does modprobe without -b, or at least it used to
[11:05] <Kamion> (makes the consequences of {g,qt}parted falling over in a heap much less bad)
[11:06] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok, I'll do livefs builds in the morning, then full testing, then release.  I'm tired of waiting. :-)
[11:06] <Kamion> absolutely
[11:17] <Kamion> ok, that's ubiquity uploaded
[11:18] <Kamion> night all
[11:19] <ogra> snight Kamion, thanks for all the help again :)
[11:19] <Hobbsee> night Kamion 
[11:28] <Riddell> pitti: what's wrong with the soname/package name of libpth?
[11:28] <ogra> you cant pronounce it if you are german ? 
[11:29] <Riddell> ah, version number
[11:29] <pitti> Riddell: soname 20 vs. package name 2 (IIRC)
[11:30] <Hobbsee> ogra: i cant either.  but ubuntu stuff loves unpronouncable names, so it's all good.
[11:31] <ogra> heh
[11:32] <ogra> toma, better try libpth
[11:32] <ogra> but with a german accent :)
[11:32] <Hobbsee> ogra: i had to actually learn to say ubuntu and kubuntu when ajmitch was over here, and so we were out talking about it, and then for the podcast.
[11:32] <ogra> hehe
[11:33] <micahcowan> what, is there a trick to it?
[11:33] <Hobbsee> ogra: i've refused to do more podcasts ever since :P
[11:33] <HiddenWolf> oeboentoe? :P
[11:33] <Hobbsee> hehe
[11:33] <pitti> ogra: unpronouncible???? try libchipcard2-libgwenhywfar38-plugins :)
[11:33] <ogra> loool
[11:33] <Riddell> Hobbsee: what happened to that podcast?
[11:33] <tseng> try alan cox's blog
[11:33] <pitti> that sounds so Welsh :)
[11:33] <Hobbsee> Riddell: i think it's still sitting on jdub's hardrive
[11:34] <Hobbsee> StevenK: you've heard me in person, why do you need a podcast?
[11:34] <tseng> Hobbsee podcast?
[11:34] <tseng> woo
[11:34] <Hobbsee> tseng: yeah, jdub made ajmitch and myself do one before we could leave.
[11:34] <tseng> oh
[11:34] <tseng> ajmitch podcast!
[11:34] <Hobbsee> and i was stuck against the wall, so had to do it :P
[11:34] <StevenK> Hobbsee: *shrug* because you're embarrased about it? :-P
[11:35] <Hobbsee> StevenK: yes.  why wouldnt i be?
[11:35] <tseng> hah
[11:36] <ogra> Hobbsee, why should you ? 
[11:36] <Hobbsee> StevenK: it's just one more obvious indication that i'm different from anyone else.  why should i want that?
[11:36] <Hobbsee> ogra: ^
[11:36] <Hobbsee> and it tends to bring more attention, and i really dont like giving out death stares.
[11:36] <StevenK> Sure you do!
[11:36] <Hobbsee> heh
[11:37] <Hobbsee> heh
[11:38] <Hobbsee> StevenK: no, no, death stares are only reserved for very special people.
[11:38] <StevenK> Aww
[11:42] <Hobbsee> StevenK: dont you have to be at work by now?
[11:42] <StevenK> Nope.
[11:42] <StevenK> I start at 9.
[11:42] <Hobbsee> StevenK: oh nice.