[05:53] <mhz> hehehe
[06:00] <P3L|C4N0> ;)
[06:27] <imbrandon> @schedule us/central
[06:27] <Ubugtu> Schedule for US/Central: 18 Jul 15:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 14:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 07:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[07:36] <GNAM> @schedule rome
[07:36] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 18 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[07:39] <zul> @schedule montreal
[07:39] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 18 Jul 16:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 16:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[07:53] <jjesse> @schedule detroit
[07:53] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Detroit: 18 Jul 16:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 16:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[07:57] <lucas> @schedule paris
[07:57] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 18 Jul 22:00: Technical Board | 19 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[09:40] <ogra> mumble ...
[09:43] <Keybuk> ;)
[09:51] <gnomefreak> lol
[09:51] <ogra> thats intentional
[09:55] <Hobbsee> Morning All!
[09:55] <Toadstool> Hi everybody!
[09:55] <ogra> hey Hobbsee !!!
[09:55] <Hobbsee> ogra: :)
[09:56] <Hobbsee> hey ogra - most of kscreensavers (all but two) work completely out of the box in edgy!
[09:56] <ogra> yay
[09:56] <ogra> i didt change much in the package ... 
[09:56] <ogra> *didnt
[09:57] <ogra> cant have been me :)
[09:57] <zul> hi Hobbsee 
[09:57] <Hobbsee> h zul 
[09:57] <Hobbsee> ogra: hehe sure...
[09:57] <Tonio_> hi everyone
[09:58] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: the kaffeine bug is closed...
[09:58] <Gloubiboulga_> hi Tonio_, hi all
[09:58] <Tonio_> hey Gloubiboulga_
[09:58] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: cool!  you fixed it?
[09:59] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: yes, the bug was due to an error of mine in the debian folder structure...
[09:59] <Tonio_> I had an "in progress" version on my HD and a working one
[09:59] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: yeah, thought it might be...
[09:59] <Tonio_> I uploaded the bad one ;)
[09:59] <Hobbsee> right
[09:59] <Hobbsee> heh
[09:59] <Hobbsee> oops :P
[09:59] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: i just looked at it and went "sheesh this is screwed.  what's he done now?"
[10:00] <ogra> hmm, another extremely filled agenda :P
[10:00] <Hobbsee> hiya StevenK!
[10:00] <Hobbsee> ogra: where is said agenda?
[10:00] <StevenK> On the wiki
[10:00] <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
[10:00] <Keybuk> ogra: I don't know if we'll get Q tonight
[10:00] <ogra> well, depends on mdz i guess
[10:00] <Keybuk> mdz and sabdfl are at the management love-in in Barcelona
[10:00] <ogra> wasnt that mallorca ? 
[10:00] <Keybuk> somewhere in Spain
[10:01] <ogra> yeah
[10:01] <ogra> where the sangria flows 
[10:01] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: cant they find someone else to step in and vote if we dont have quorum?
[10:01] <ogra> well, mjg59 is here i think 
[10:01] <ogra> is two quorum for the TB ?
[10:02] <Keybuk> two, yes
[10:02] <mjg59> Evening
[10:02] <ogra> :)
[10:02] <Hobbsee> hi mjg59 
[10:02] <Tonio_> hi mjg59
[10:02] <Keybuk> aha
[10:02] <Keybuk> so let's get the party started
[10:02] <Toadstool> hey mjg59 
[10:02] <ogra> wuld be a shame if Hobbsee woudnt get approved :P
[10:03] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: off you go
[10:03] <mjg59> Shall we get on with things, then?
[10:03] <Hobbsee> ogra: if that happened, whoever *didnt* do the approving would get me bugging them for all future uploads
[10:03] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: so you want to be an uploader?
[10:03] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: sorry, what do you want?
[10:03] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: yes
[10:03] <ogra> Hobbsee, three liner intro
[10:03] <Hobbsee> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hobbsee is the wiki page
[10:03] <Hobbsee> shoot, sorry, i dotn have a three liner today...
[10:04] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: well, introduce yourself
[10:04] <Keybuk> "I don't have an introduction, I've been too busy fixing bugs" ... yup, that suffices as an introduction for me <g>
[10:04] <Hobbsee> right, well, i'm Sarah Hobbs, in sydney, and i do a lot of kubuntu stuff
[10:04] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: :P
[10:05] <imbrandon> lol
[10:05] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: so you'd be doing more Kubuntu work if you had upload privileges?
[10:05] <Hobbsee> i'm on the Kubuntu Community Council, and i pretty much end up organising a lot of kubuntu
[10:05] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: well, likely, but i also do run out of time, being a full time student, and working as well
[10:05] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: it's more that i wouldnt have to bug a few million people to have to upload my fixes
[10:05] <Hobbsee> in the future i'll likely go for core dev
[10:06] <Keybuk> are any of those people who have sponsored you so far here today?
[10:06] <Hobbsee> in fact, you could give me those rights today to :P
[10:06] <StevenK> Yes, I'm here.
[10:06] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: sure, StevenK, Riddell, raphink, 
[10:06] <Keybuk> StevenK: how have you found Hobbsee's work?
[10:06] <Hobbsee> there are more...brain's not quite here yet
[10:06] <Riddell> I support Hobbsee as MOTU (and main before too long I expect) uploader, she's done great stuff with a lot of kubuntu packages
[10:07] <StevenK> Keybuk: She knows what she's doing.
[10:07] <Hobbsee> Riddell actually approves of me organising and bossing everyone around, which is surprising
[10:07] <Keybuk> mjg59: any questions from you?
[10:07] <imbrandon> and helps other motu hopefulls like myself tremendusly 
[10:07] <Hobbsee> ajmitch, bddebian, both of whom arent here
[10:07] <Tonio_> I can confirm she is extremly active, tracking bugs, providing patches
[10:07] <mjg59> Sorry, just getting through the wiki page
[10:07] <Hobbsee> zakame too, who also istn here
[10:07] <Tonio_> and it is a long time effort
[10:07] <LaserJock> Hobbsee's definately an asset to MOTU
[10:07] <jjesse> and those that aren't even motu she is great
[10:07] <Hobbsee> (where is everyone this morning!)
[10:08] <StevenK> Sleeping, duh.
[10:08] <Hobbsee> bah.
[10:08] <mjg59> Hobbsee: How do you think Kubuntu can be improved, other than simply by adding new packages and fixing bugs?
[10:08] <ogra> haha
[10:08] <Hobbsee> mjg59: well, that's certainly a part of it
[10:09] <Hobbsee> mjg59: since dapper, we've been getting more people interested in development, both me, and then other people as well
[10:09] <Hobbsee> of course, these people have different levels of skills, and are looking for things to do
[10:09] <mjg59> Hobbsee: So what sort of integration issues do you see as important?
[10:09] <Hobbsee> (sorry for bad spelling, i cant see the keyboard)
[10:10] <Hobbsee> i'm looking at finding things for them to do, and making lists, so that we can put all of our developers to good use, as there's a severe lack of manpower in kubuntu
[10:10] <Hobbsee> Riddell's awesome, but he is only one man.
[10:10] <Hobbsee> mjg59: well, stuff like the fact that kubuntu-desktop got removed during upgrade - someone should have tested that, etc.  it took a month or so for a screensaver bug to get fixed
[10:11] <Hobbsee> all of that could have been done stacks earlier with the right people in place, and the people who are able to fix such bugs/implement such fixes to have the permissions to do it
[10:11] <mjg59> And you have plans for doing so?
[10:11] <Hobbsee> mjg59: yes :)  
[10:11] <mjg59> Excellent
[10:11] <Hobbsee> mjg59: i'll quite likely run out of time though
[10:11] <mjg59> Happens to the best of us
[10:12] <Hobbsee> mjg59: so i'll probably need to work out something around that
[10:12] <mjg59> (Argh, argh, I have far too much to do at the moment)
[10:12] <Hobbsee> crimsun: as well on the list of uploaders
[10:12] <Hobbsee> mjg59: i wrote a to-do list yesterday while my car was being serviced - it's shockingly long :P
[10:12] <mjg59> Riddell: you think Hobbsee would make a good team member, then?
[10:12] <ogra> Hobbsee, just strike everything that hasnt *buntu in it :)
[10:13] <Keybuk> mjg59: did you need any more fly spray?
[10:13] <mjg59> Keybuk: The flies are, thankfully, history
[10:13] <Riddell> mjg59: certainly do
[10:13] <mjg59> Ok, I think I'm done
[10:14] <Keybuk> votes@
[10:14] <Hobbsee> hehe :)
[10:14] <Keybuk> an emphatic +1 from me, Hobbsee has been an asset to the team so far!
[10:14] <mjg59> +1, based on solid recommendations
[10:14] <Hobbsee> yay :D
[10:14] <ogra> YAY
[10:14] <ogra> congrats Hobbsee 
[10:14] <StevenK> Woot
[10:14] <imbrandon> congrats
[10:14] <Toadstool> congrats Hobbsee 
[10:14] <Gloubiboulga_> congrats Hobbsee :)
[10:14] <gnomefreak> congrats Hobbsee  ;)
[10:14] <LaserJock> \o/
[10:14] <Tonio_> congratulations Hobbsee, you really deserve it
[10:14] <Hobbsee> guess i'll have to seriously think about core dev now hey?
[10:14] <Hobbsee> thankyou all :D
[10:14] <mjg59> Anyone else?
[10:14] <toma> Hobbsee: concrats!
[10:15] <Toadstool> mjg59: yep, me
[10:15] <Keybuk> Toadstool: you're up next
[10:15] <Toadstool> ok thx Keybuk 
[10:15] <Hobbsee> haha
[10:15] <Toadstool> I am Jrmie Corbier.
[10:15] <Toadstool> I've been using Ubuntu since Warty and been working on it for about 6 months. I've started with my wide-dhcpv6 package then I've continued with triaging and fixing random bugs. Now i'm packaging a few more apps and libs (mmpython is now in universe and Debian sid). I'm working on slim and freevo too.
[10:15] <Toadstool> LP: https://launchpad.net/people/jcorbier
[10:15] <Toadstool> Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JeremieCorbier
[10:15] <Toadstool> Hobbsee: :p
[10:15] <Keybuk> Toadstool: what kinds of things have you been doing in Ubuntu so far?
[10:16] <Keybuk> and what kinds of things would you like to do if approved for upload?
[10:16] <Toadstool> I've done a lot of bug triaging and/or fixing in Universe
[10:16] <Toadstool> and I'll keep on working as an Ubuntu squad member
[10:16] <Keybuk> you also do transaltion work, I believe?
[10:17] <Toadstool> indeed
[10:17] <Toadstool> not as much as I would like though
[10:17] <ogra> Toadstool is quite active in #ubuntu-bugs 
[10:17] <Keybuk> who has been sponsoring your uploads to date?
[10:17] <Toadstool> Gloubiboulga_, crimsun mainly
[10:17] <crimsun> I've sponsored a few. Jrmie has been doing great work with universe packaging.
[10:17] <Toadstool> and bddebian
[10:17] <Toadstool> there are others
[10:17] <Toadstool> dholbach too but he's not here
[10:18] <LaserJock> I sponsored one of his AMD64 fixes for ghemical, he is also helping a bit with MOTU Science which has been a help
[10:18] <Gloubiboulga_> yep, his bug fixes are always nice and I never had to tell him to change a thing
[10:19] <Gloubiboulga_> I've also published some of his comments on REVU, and he is really helpuful on #ubuntu-motu too
[10:19] <Toadstool> I forwarded the AMD64 fix for ghemical to Debian and upstream and it was included
[10:19] <LaserJock> yeah, that was nice work
[10:19] <Toadstool> unfortunately, ghemical is heavily broken for the moment :/
[10:19] <Keybuk> and what kinds of things would you like to do if approved for upload?
[10:20] <LaserJock> Toadstool: it just needs a sync actually :-)
[10:20] <Toadstool> yeah? nice :)
[10:21] <Toadstool> Keybuk: keep on working on bugs first and package some more apps, and help MOTU wannabe
[10:21] <Toadstool> +s
[10:21] <mjg59> Toadstool: You've done quite a lot of work in collaboration with Debian. What other things do you think we could do to improve that?
[10:21] <Toadstool> there a lot of things moving in the way patches are given back to debian iirc, in the pts for example
[10:22] <Toadstool> and a new chan on oftc has been created to improve communication with debian and 'im already on it :)
[10:22] <mjg59> Excellent
[10:22] <Toadstool> unfortunately it doesn't have as success as I would have expected first
[10:23] <Toadstool> maybe a lack of advertisement
[10:24] <Toadstool> i'm trying to report as many debian packaging bugs as possible in the debian bts too
[10:24] <mjg59> I approve wholeheartedly
[10:24] <Toadstool> and when i package something i try to get it included in sid too
[10:25] <Toadstool> so far, my two packages are in universe and sid
[10:25] <Keybuk> http://people.debian.org/~terpstra/message/20060718.201847.4d546c27.en.html
[10:25] <Keybuk> Toadstool: how do you think we can combat reactions like that ^ from Debian people?
[10:25] <Keybuk> this particular maintainer's response to Ubuntu e-mailing patches has been to killfile us
[10:26] <Toadstool> well, that's a pity that some debian maintainer react this way
[10:26] <Toadstool> maybe show them that our patches are worth the inclusion in debian by posting them in the bts first
[10:27] <Toadstool> when they don't want to consider the inclusion using the new pts stuff
[10:27] <Toadstool> otoh that's a huge amount of work
[10:28] <Toadstool> maybe there should have a collaboration team, the same as utnubu on debian side
[10:28] <Toadstool> s/there/we/
[10:29] <Keybuk> did you see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DCT ?
[10:29] <lucas> :p
[10:29] <Toadstool> no, I'm on it, lucas just told me about it :)
[10:29] <lucas> I was just saying to Toadstool that we should talk together about it
[10:30] <Keybuk> mjg59: any other questions?
[10:30] <mjg59> Nope, I'm good
[10:30] <Keybuk> votes?
[10:31] <mjg59> +1 for seeming competence and a great attitude towards working with Debian
[10:31] <Keybuk> +1 from me also
[10:31] <Toadstool> thanks everybody :)
[10:31] <imbrandon> congrats Toadstool ;)
[10:31] <Hobbsee> yay Toadstool!
[10:31] <Tonio_> congrats Toadstool :)
[10:31] <Gloubiboulga_> congrats Toadstool :)
[10:32] <Keybuk> anyone else for ubuntu-dev who didn't make it to an earlier meeting?
[10:32] <lucas> (just privmsgd to Keybuk:) it would be great if, after processing dev candidates, we could discuss the DCT a bit. I haven't had a lot of feedback from the ubuntu side.
[10:33] <Keybuk> ok, let's move onto core-dev
[10:33] <Keybuk> Tonio_: ?
[10:33] <Tonio_> yes
[10:33] <Tonio_> I'm Anthony Mercatante, most of you know me as a kubuntu developper and motu
[10:34] <Hobbsee> Tonio_'s going for core!  cool!
[10:34] <Tonio_> Hobbsee: attempting at least 
[10:34] <Tonio_> Although I'm not very active as a motu, most of my work is currently done in the main section
[10:34] <Tonio_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AnthonyMercatante
[10:34] <Tonio_> here is my wikipage
[10:35] <Tonio_> https://launchpad.net/people/tonio/+packages
[10:35] <Tonio_> and the launchpad packages one
[10:36] <Keybuk> ok, so what kinds of things would you like to be doing in main?
[10:36] <Keybuk> further Kubuntu work?  Who has been sponsoring you so far?
[10:36] <Tonio_> Keybuk: mostly Riddell of course
[10:36] <Riddell> yep, lots of kubuntu-default-settings uploads from Tonio_ and a good number of others too
[10:36] <Tonio_> I'm currently maintaining a bunch of main applications, like wlassistant, kmplayer, knetworkmanager, kaffeine...
[10:37] <Tonio_> and yes, I'm very involved in the kde implementation, configuration and simplification
[10:37] <Riddell> he's very competant, I can't remember the last time I had to correct something before uploading
[10:39] <imbrandon> whoops
[10:40] <mjg59> Ah
[10:40] <Keybuk> aga
[10:40] <Tonio_> sorry, konversation crached...
[10:40] <Keybuk> Tonio_: so what kinds of improvements would you like to make to Kubuntu?
[10:40] <Keybuk> clearly you'll be fixing that bug? :p
[10:40] <Tonio_> Keybuk: hope so :)
[10:40] <Tonio_> well currently kubuntu misses a good multimedia infrastructure
[10:41] <Hobbsee> (Tonio_: ouch.  daily build, or the one in the repos?)
[10:41] <Tonio_> that should be changed in the future focussing on one application only
[10:41] <Tonio_> there are also lots of things to be done to get a fully logic and wel implemented kde destktop
[10:42] <Tonio_> kde is widely configurable, but requires lots of configuration to be done still
[10:42] <Keybuk> would you favour kde using gstreamer, or something else?
[10:42] <Tonio_> we need to focus on the wireless part too, since we don't currently have a wpa capable solution installed out of the box
[10:43] <Tonio_> Keybuk: I would probably favour gstreamer, yes, because it is certainly the most promissing
[10:43] <Tonio_> Keybuk: and afaik, it has great chances to be used with kde4
[10:43] <Tonio_> so here are the most important things I would like to focus on in the next weeks
[10:44] <Keybuk> *nods*, interesting
[10:44] <Keybuk> Riddell: these are your packages, would you welcome Tonio_ into main?
[10:44] <Riddell> Keybuk: very much so
[10:45] <RichJ> @schedule chicago
[10:45] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: Current meeting: Technical Board | 19 Jul 15:00: Edubuntu | 20 Jul 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 14:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 07:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team
[10:45] <Keybuk> mjg59: any questions?
[10:47] <mjg59> Tonio_: Do you think you can help get Kubuntu to the same level of polish and integration as Ubuntu?
[10:47] <Tonio_> mjg59: I hope so, since it is clearly what I'm claiming for month :)
[10:47] <Hobbsee> mjg59: only with a lot of work.
[10:47] <Tonio_> mjg59: anyway, that will probably require more than just my contribution
[10:47] <mjg59> Tonio_: On the bright side, I see you've been doing a lot of work on infrastructure that both Ubuntu and Kubuntu can use
[10:48] <mjg59> My heartfelt thanks for that :)
[10:48] <ogra> Tonio_, well, you have Hobbsee now :)
[10:48] <imbrandon> but the kubuntu team is comming along nicely specialy with Tonio_
[10:48] <Tonio_> mjg59: well, networkmanager and bluez-utils mostly
[10:48] <mjg59> Tonio_: How closely do you work with upstream?
[10:48] <imbrandon> and Hobbsee ;P
[10:48] <Tonio_> mjg59: depends if there are or not respondive ;)
[10:49] <mjg59> Heh
[10:49] <mjg59> But you make an effort?
[10:49] <Tonio_> I'm regularly in kontact with lots of them, and they most of the time include my patches
[10:49] <mjg59> Excellent
[10:49] <mjg59> Ok, I think I'm done
[10:49] <ogra> in kontact ?
[10:49] <mjg59> Keybuk: You?
[10:49] <Tonio_> mjg59: I generally always try to get my patches and packages improvements upstream
[10:49] <Keybuk> I'm done
[10:49] <Tonio_> that's the goal
[10:49] <mjg59> Votes?
[10:49] <Hobbsee> Tonio_: when you misspell kontact and konversation, you certainly spend too much time working on kde :P
[10:50] <ogra> yeah
[10:50] <imbrandon> heh
[10:50] <Keybuk> +1 from me
[10:50] <mjg59> +1 from me for plainly being excellent (asuming what everyone tells me is true :p)
[10:50] <ogra> thats what i thought too
[10:50] <Tonio_> ;)
[10:50] <Hobbsee> yay Tonio_!
[10:50] <Toadstool> congrats Tonio_ :)
[10:50] <ogra> congrats Tonio_ 
[10:50] <ogra> !
[10:50] <Hobbsee> mjg59: it's better not to think about if it's true or not, i'm sure :P
[10:50] <Tonio_> thank you very much everybody !
[10:50] <toma> nice day for kubuntu!
[10:50] <Hobbsee> toma: very!
[10:50] <Tonio_> toma: hehe
[10:51] <imbrandon> very nice toma 
[10:51] <imbrandon> ;)
[10:51] <imbrandon> toma HIDE !!
[10:51] <Keybuk> ok, last up is Linda
[10:52] <Keybuk> err, I mean Steven
[10:52] <StevenK> Hah
[10:52] <imbrandon> heh
[10:52] <StevenK> Hrm, Steven doesn't fire my nick hilight.
[10:52] <ogra> lol
[10:52] <Hobbsee> go StevenK!
[10:52] <StevenK> I'm Steve Kowalik, Debian Developer since 2001, and an MOTU to boot.
[10:53] <Hobbsee> (and the poor bugger who uploads a lot of my packages)
[10:53] <StevenK> I hope to look at Edgy specs and help out with a few that interest me, specifically about-ubuntu, spoken-boot and a few others that escape me at the moment.
[10:54] <imbrandon> and the poor guy that has given me alot of MOTU training ( along with many others )
[10:54] <StevenK> I hope to do the same thing with main, offering to sponsor patches from people and upload them into main.
[10:54] <StevenK> It'd be kinda nice to request a sync for Linda, too.
[10:55] <StevenK> Um. I'd also say general merges for main, but the bulk of that will have to wait until Edgy+1
[10:55] <mjg59> Ok
[10:55] <mjg59> Have you got anything in main at the moment?
[10:56] <StevenK> Linda, but it wasn't me who put her there.
[10:56] <mjg59> So an obvious question is "What would you do with core-dev that you can't currently do"?
[10:56] <StevenK> I have spent some spare time over the last few days looking over main bugs, but nothing really struck me as being easily patched.
[10:57] <mjg59> You've suggested sponsoring other people
[10:57] <mjg59> Do you think that it's currently difficult to get stuff sponsored into main?
[10:58] <StevenK> Yes, sponsoring other people, along with bug fixes, and helping out with work if people ask me.
[10:58] <StevenK> I don't think it is, but many hands make light work, and also other people may not be around to build/test/upload.
[10:59] <Hobbsee> (personally, i find the stuff in main hard to get uploaded, due to my timezone)
[10:59] <mjg59> I guess I feel that it would be good to see more work with main first, but I don't know how Scott feels
[10:59] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Like you can claim yourself being in the Australia/Sydney timezone.
[10:59] <mjg59> Keybuk: ?
[11:00] <Keybuk> I must admit that I feel the same, despite his track record in Debian
[11:00] <Hobbsee> StevenK: i mostly can.  except for staying up till 2am each morning. 
[11:00] <Keybuk> we do things slightly differently in Ubuntu, and it would be good to see more example of his work in main first
[11:01] <mjg59> StevenK: Would you be open to spending more time working with main in the Edgy cycle and then revisiting this when we come to Edgy+1?
[11:01] <StevenK> Indeed.
[11:02] <mjg59> I'm not concerned about you screwing things up, but it's nice to have evidence that you'll use the rights granted :)
[11:02] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: pm?
[11:03] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: it's not that pm here yet
[11:03] <mjg59> Keybuk: Anything else?
[11:03] <Keybuk> on StevenK, nothing from me
[11:03] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: :P  i meant private message.
[11:03] <Keybuk> lucas wanted to have a few moments
[11:03] <lucas> yup, I wanted to discuss DCT
[11:04] <lucas> since it was raised earlier
[11:04] <lucas> I even have a few intro lines :
[11:04] <mjg59> StevenK: Ok - sorry about that, but with luck we'll see you back here soon
[11:04] <lucas> The Debian Collaboration Team (or DCT, http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DCT ) is an Ubuntu team aiming at improving collaboration between Ubuntu and Debian by tracking changes in Ubuntu's packages.
[11:04] <lucas> It's not an automatic process like Scott's patches, but instead requires collaboration from *volunteer* Debian developers :
[11:04] <lucas> - DCT team members agree to file bugs in the BTS for all relevant issues
[11:04] <lucas> - the DD agrees to act promptly on those bugs
[11:04] <lucas> The advantage is that we limit ourselves to DD who actually want to collaborate, and don't lose time sending patches to maintainers who killfile us.
[11:04] <lucas> Questions:
[11:04] <lucas> - What do you think ?
[11:04] <lucas> - Ideas for improvement ?
[11:04] <lucas> - Volunteers ? :)
[11:04] <mjg59> lucas: It sounds like a good way of building trust
[11:05] <mjg59> Would you need any technical resources that aren't currently available?
[11:05] <lucas> I don't think so
[11:05] <lucas> we'll need a tool to keep track of what has been reviewed
[11:06] <lucas> but it will most likely be web-based, and web hosting is not a problem
[11:06] <LaserJock> do you think its a good thing to focus down the people involved rather than try to improve the overall Debian-Ubuntu collaboration
[11:06] <Keybuk> I'm a little confused ... you talk about DDs there?  What would be Ubuntu's contribution to the DCT?
[11:07] <mjg59> lucas: Presumably you meant volunteer Ubuntu developers, rather than volunteer Debian developers?
[11:07] <lucas> there are volunteers on both side :
[11:07] <ogra> Keybuk, it has two sides ... both of them agree to collaborate ...
[11:07] <lucas> volunteer ubuntu devs agree to work inside DCT (some ubuntu devs don't care about debian)
[11:08] <Keybuk> how will patches/issues/etc. be judged to be relevant?
[11:08] <Keybuk> one of the problems so far has been deciding whether a patch is worth submitting to Debian
[11:08] <lucas> volunteer DDs agree to respond very fast to bug reports, so they are useful for ubuntu too
[11:08] <mjg59> From a technical side of things, I don't see any issue
[11:09] <lucas> the litmus test would be "things we changed that should be changed in debian too"
[11:09] <Keybuk> lucas: a useful feature for you might be ... the patch mailer (that does the ubuntu-patches mailing list, and sends to the PTS) allows custom subscriptions
[11:09] <Keybuk> so you can subscribe to lists of packages, etc.
[11:09] <Keybuk> lucas: how about where we differ to Debian?  e.g. udev, or our use of /var/run, or our non-use of /emul, etc.
[11:10] <lucas> I think the list-of-packages-management would probably be more complex than this, but there might be code to re-use
[11:10] <lucas> well, it's of course not about pushing such decisions to debian
[11:11] <lucas> one of the problem is to review patches and know which changes are relevant to debian, which requires good knowledge of both sides
[11:12] <Keybuk> a good plan might be to draft up a description of what volunteers would need to do, and use ubuntu-devel to get early ones
[11:12] <Keybuk> and once the thing is up and running, ubuntu-devel-announce to get more
[11:13] <lucas> yup, that's what I started doing on the wiki page
[11:13] <LaserJock> I'd be a bit worried though that it might send a message that Ubuntu people don't have to worry about upstream, "somebody'll take care of it"
[11:13] <LaserJock> do you think that could become a problem?
[11:14] <lucas> ideally, all ubuntu developers would understand that debian matters a lot, and that reducing divergence makes our life easier
[11:14] <lucas> but it's clear that some ubuntu devs have never used debian, and don't really understand the relationship between ubuntu & debian
[11:15] <lucas> (that's a different issue, and it was already raised during the debian/ubuntu discussion at debconf, I think)
[11:17] <Keybuk> ok
[11:17] <Keybuk> does anybody have any questions for lucas?
[11:18] <lucas> :p
[11:18] <mjg59> I think it sounds like a good plan
[11:19] <Keybuk> agree
[11:19] <Keybuk> lucas: good luck with it, if there's any technical resources you need, they can most likely be arranged
[11:19] <lucas> ok
[11:20] <Keybuk> any other business?
[11:20] <Keybuk> adjourned then
[11:20] <Keybuk> thanks everybody
[11:20] <ogra> thanks Keybuk 
[11:20] <Hobbsee> thanks Keybuk :)
[11:20] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: i can go break things now :D
[11:21] <ogra> haha
[11:21] <Hobbsee> hey!  i want some of the cake!  early birthday present!
[11:22] <ogra> Hobbsee, rather a late one, its nearly over :P
[11:22] <Hobbsee> ogra: birthday's on saturday..
[11:23] <ogra> Hobbsee, i mean Keybuks :), but thanks, noted in the calendar :)
[11:23] <Hobbsee> ogra: ah right, yes.
[11:23] <Hobbsee> ohhh...yes...of course
[11:23] <Hobbsee> he
[11:23] <Hobbsee> h
[11:23] <toma> did anyone say Cake ?
[11:24] <Hobbsee> toma: hehe
[11:24] <ogra> yes, but he left after that sentence ...
[11:24] <toma> any leftover?
[11:25] <ogra> well, he hasnr baked it yet :(
[11:25] <ogra> *hasnt
[11:29] <Hobbsee> ogra: whenver i end up making it to a dev conference, you can cook us all a cake :P
[11:30] <ogra> lol, but only if i'm allowed to bake it ... i doubt cooked cake has a pleasant consistency :P
[11:30] <Hobbsee> ogra: sure
[11:30] <ogra> :)
[11:31] <ogra> i'm sure you will make it to one of the next confs 
[11:31] <Hobbsee> ogra: yeah.  maybe.  if i get sponsored.
[11:31] <Seveas> Hobbsee, hmm, than I can @lart you irl 
[11:31] <ogra> hehe
[11:31] <Hobbsee> Seveas: and i can kick you in real life.
[11:31] <Hobbsee> :D
[11:31] <ogra> yeah, Seveas is long overdue for a conf
[11:46] <simira> Hobbsee: you aren't going to Wiesbaden?
[11:47] <ogra> yeah, that'd be cool !
[11:47] <Hobbsee> simira: to *where*?  when?
[11:47] <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSprintWiesbaden
[11:47] <Hobbsee> wiesbaden sounds like it's in germany somewhere...
[11:48] <Hobbsee> oh yay!  i got it right!
[11:48] <ogra> yup it is
[11:48] <ogra> its a suburb of franfurt 
[11:48] <raphink> congrats Hobbsee
[11:48] <ogra> *frankfurt
[11:48] <Hobbsee> ogra: not sure that i'd be much use there, i'm probably of more use at edgy+1 developer conference, although i expect that's a bit close to exams
[11:49] <Hobbsee> um, okay?
[11:49] <simira> are there any here?
[11:49] <ogra> luckily not ...
[11:49] <ogra> but they dont like it to be called a franfurt suburb :)
[11:50] <Seveas> but alas, I don't want to kill ogra 
[11:50] <Hobbsee> heh
[11:50] <Hobbsee> Seveas: you'd far prefer to kill me, yes, we know.
[11:50] <ogra> Seveas, so pop in for an afternoon and a dinner or something :)
[11:50] <Seveas> ogra, ICE tickets are expensive 
[11:50] <ogra> pfft 
[11:50] <ogra> money is relative :P
[11:51] <Seveas> yes, I have relatively little of it 
[11:51] <ogra> heh
[11:55] <Hobbsee> raphink: thanks :)
[11:55] <raphink> :)