=== Rondom [n=Rondom@p54AEEB71.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #edubuntu === Amaranth [n=amaranth@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #edubuntu === RichEd [n=RichardW@dsl-146-132-138.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #edubuntu === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #edubuntu === Lord_Athur [n=alejandr@pc-10-33-214-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #edubuntu [01:42] hi all === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #edubuntu [02:03] hey jsgotangco, Lord_Athur [02:03] hey Burgwork [02:04] hi guys [02:08] how's it going [02:10] I've been fighting with emacs all day :-) [02:10] rather, emacs+OS X [02:10] cause it worked just fine in Ubuntu [02:18] LaserJock, you are mad [02:18] yes I am. I wish I had an Ubuntu box at work [02:19] i thought emacs is shipped in OSX by default [02:19] sure [02:19] but I wanted to add some stuff to it [02:19] so what's the issue? its the same keybindings though [02:19] ahhh [02:19] getting it to work right is another matter [02:19] its just a bunch of lua files to be added right? [02:20] lisp [02:20] argghhh yeah lisp my bad [02:21] anyway, I wanted to be able to do more stuff from CLI [02:21] and emacs seemed to be able to do what I wanted [02:21] yes [02:21] PIM, wiki, etc. [02:21] do you know planner mode [02:21] that's what I'm trying to get to work [02:22] lol you should ask sacha the current maintainer she's very very helpful and currently use OSX [02:22] in Ubuntu I just install planner-el and off I go [02:22] she's a dear friend of mine [02:22] no such luck in OS X [02:22] just send her an email she'll give you tips on how to do that [02:22] really? I feel like I know her well, I've been on her site all day [02:22] :-) [02:23] heh she's really nice when you get to meet her personally [02:23] I saw the site was .ph [02:23] yes she's a local here [02:23] but she's currntly in toronto [02:23] doing her masters [02:24] all of that website is done in emacs+emacswiki+plannermode [02:25] just before I leave, I thought I would celebrate by showing a picture of beer: http://mfrost.typepad.com/cute_overload/2006/07/do_i_sense_a_fr.html [02:26] heh that's a good one [02:28] jsgotangco: yeah, it's really sweet how it's wikified, that's exactly what I was looking for [02:28] a CLI Tomboy ;-) [02:28] well yeah === jsgotangco should use planner mode again [02:29] the learning curve is pretty steap though [02:29] I'm using a newer version that uses muse instead of emacs-wiki [02:29] well with just a few key bindings in your .emacs file you could create your own stuff [02:30] I'm working on it [02:30] :-) [02:33] you can sync that if you want, im sure she'll appreciate it, she's been meaning to do that for the longest time but school got in her way [02:33] although its a really *tiny* package [02:33] =) [02:40] wahoo, I got it to publish it to html in my ~/public_html :-) [02:40] how cool [02:40] umm yeah that's emacswiki [02:40] you can publish everyday until you have a month long journal/diary [02:41] it's this new muse thing instead of emacswiki [02:41] supposedly it's better [02:41] I can publish to latex, xhtml, html, etc. [02:41] anway, this is pretty cool [02:41] ahh [02:42] hah, it can do RSS 2.0 too [02:42] hrmm how come dapper still comes with emacswiki [02:42] because the muse support is pretty new [02:43] fink has it I think [02:43] not sure about debian [02:43] I know there is a debian repo for it === Rondom_ [n=Rondom@p54AEEBA0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #edubuntu === Lord_Athur [n=alejandr@pc-10-33-214-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #edubuntu [03:54] hi all === arkan0x [n=arkan0x@pc-6-76-214-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #edubuntu === mhz [n=mhz@pc-84-84-214-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #edubuntu === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #edubuntu === mhz [n=mhz@moinmoin/fan/mhz] has joined #edubuntu === linuxgoober [n=rnisly@205.243.101.59] has left #edubuntu ["Leaving"] === LaserJock is now known as Laser_away === mhz is now known as mhz_zZzZ === cbx33 [n=pete@ubuntu/member/cbx33] has joined #edubuntu [07:19] ping RichEd [07:33] brb - breakfast === markit86 [n=markit86@80-43-44-86.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #edubuntu === Fujitsu [n=Fujitsu@c211-28-178-169.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #edubuntu === sankarshan [n=sankarsh@202.149.56.110] has joined #edubuntu === Yagisan [n=jamie@doomsday/developer/Yagisan] has joined #edubuntu [08:42] aah, so that explains why my suspend doesn't work. i thouhgt it was this new laptop :) === Yagisan waves hello === rodarvus [n=rodarvus@ubuntu/member/rodarvus] has joined #edubuntu === highvoltage waves Yagisan [09:12] ogra: please wake up. i have an idea that i'm excited about that i want to talk to you about. [09:12] highvoltage: how are you today ? [09:13] Yagisan: thirsty, but otherwise very good [09:13] also hit the snooze butten more than 5 times this morning [09:13] (logt count after that) [09:13] *lost [09:14] highvoltage: wish I could say the same :( I've got problems with my eyes [09:14] I see red spots that don't exist [09:14] what's wrong? [09:14] that's strange. [09:14] what causes that? [09:14] and the optometrist can't see anything wrong [09:15] so I'm off to the specialist on wednesday, and will be relived of $147 [09:15] and I'm laying odds, that that won't know what's wrong either [09:16] I also discovered I have 20/15 vision, and am slightly long sighted. [09:16] are the joys of being a guinea pig [09:17] hmmm. couldn't find anythin on google about it [09:18] me either [09:18] but I assure you, I see those bright red spots [09:18] do they stay at the same place? or move around? [09:19] they move [09:19] how big are they? [09:19] can be very annoying [09:19] small. usually in clusters of 3 [09:19] ever looked close at a tv [09:20] yep [09:20] at the coloured dots on the screen ? [09:20] yes [09:20] looks somewhat like that === highvoltage finds it tough to imagine [09:20] well, my advice for any medical problem is always: drink lots of water [09:21] it seems to help for everything [09:21] I've had them for years, but it's increased recently. I mentioned it in passing to the optometrist and she was very concerned [09:21] 1.5hrs if testing, and couldn't find a reason. [09:23] and there's no records of similar conditions? [09:23] not that they know of === Yagisan is special === cbx33 [n=c2df514b@84-45-197-14.no-dns-yet.enta.net] has joined #edubuntu [09:26] mornin all [09:27] G'day cbx33. you missed the most fascinating discussion about how my eyes are stuffed [09:27] I thought your eyes were extremely good? [09:27] morning all :) [09:28] hey RichEd did you get the spreadshet [09:29] hey highvoltage ... saw this comment ... can't find background [aah, so that explains why my suspend doesn't work. i thouhgt it was this new laptop] explain if you have a moment [09:29] hey cbx33 [09:30] hi RichEd [09:31] RichEd: i broke my suspend by using a fork of usplash that does high resolutions and other fancy stuff (like plaing video, etc) [09:31] yikes Yagisan [09:31] hi highvoltage [09:31] it breaks suspend because new bioses and display cards are basically junk. [09:31] my eyes are screwed but for a totally different reason [09:31] and don't work like their supposed to. [09:31] cbx33: nice isn't it o_O [09:31] when you use lower resolutions and colour depths, then the bios works like it should, and resets your display when you unsuspend. [09:32] Yagisan: not really :p [09:32] highvoltage: okay :) was wondering where hibernate files are kept and wanted to read more ... any advice ? [09:32] cbx33: yessir i sure did ... was up till past pumpkin time getting my notebook booting in Ed / Ub / Kub ... all sorted :) ... ready to dive into openoffice dos today [09:32] we suspend-to-disk in the primary swap. [09:33] RichEd: when you hibernate, your memory is stored in your swap partition [09:33] RichEd: when you suspend, it stays in RAM [09:34] thanks highvoltage & crimsun ... so all 3 boots will share the same hibernate disk space, will clear & tidy on shutdown & reboot ... most excellent [09:35] cbx33: openoffice docs not dos (doos :P) [09:35] does that mean you can't hibernate all three at the same time? [09:35] RichEd: ;p [09:35] RichEd: watch your language! [09:36] highvoltage: he keeps doing that :p [09:36] hehehe [09:37] quick opinion ?? aim vs xchat <- pros / cons < need to make a decision for my standard IRC [09:37] xchat [09:37] would be my choice [09:37] irssi would be my choise [09:37] *choice [09:37] heheh [09:38] xchat would be my second choice. I don't know about an aim IRC clien. [09:38] at a first glance, aim does more than xchat no ? (aim is default install on my edubuntu, xchat is an option to fetch) [09:38] aim looks like it has ICQ and other instant messenger stuff [09:39] yeah its an instant messenger ... [09:39] I like gaim, but it needs more work for IRC [09:39] not really suited for irc imho [09:39] eg [09:39] if you mean Gaim, yes, it handles multiple protocols. It's quite ... unintuitive for IRC, though. [09:39] /kick doesn't seem to work [09:39] crimsun: totally [09:39] haha [09:39] highvoltage: pray extoll on the virtues of irssi ? (in a short concise sentence) [09:39] highvoltage, pong [09:39] the UI is /horrible/ [09:39] morning ogra [09:40] i'm using xchat for win right now ... and i quite like it's style [09:40] RichEd: xchat is probably the most intutive [09:40] imho [09:40] but gaim does work on all protocols I need [09:40] ++ [09:41] RichEd: the nicest thing about irssi is you can run it in screen [09:41] highvoltage: true [09:41] morning ogra ... [09:41] RichEd: so you don't have to exit your client when switching between kubuntu/xubuntu/ubuntu [09:42] you can also run it remotely, which is handy when irc ports are firewalled, or if you disconnect from the network a lot [09:42] edubuntu....you missed it off the list :p [09:42] morning ogra [09:42] brb [09:42] i actually meant kde/xfce/gnome :) [09:42] I think the nicest thing about irssi running in screen is its proxy module so you can continue to use X-Chat to connect to your irssi proxy over an ssh tunnel without losing a step. [09:42] highvoltage: do you mean switching "interface" as opposed to rebooting into alternate os [09:42] ogra: i have a bit of a radical idea for ltsp [09:42] ogra: but it's so crazy it just might work (apologies for flintism) [09:43] RichEd: switching interface [09:43] okay ... may chat to you about the later ... i've gone the 3 boot option [09:43] anyway will install xchat in edubuntu for now .. and get going quickly & easily in an interface i am familiar with ... and check out the irssi later [09:43] ogra: last night i was thinking about ways to make a diskless fat client better, and I thought that it might be completely redundant to have a seperate chroot for the clients [09:44] ogra: so i thought, it might be better to export / to the nfs clients, and then use a free runlevel (such as runlevel 7) to boot the clients from [09:44] indeed it is [09:44] nah [09:44] then, you solve a lot of problems [09:45] such as maintenance, and how to install software... even things like getting the session information and lagnuage packs are easier. [09:45] just add something to ltsp-client that makes it die if FAT_CLIENT is set ... so the booting goes on up to gdm [09:45] ogra: ah, even better! [09:46] ogra: but then I thought, is there then even a reason to have a think client chroot, because you could do the same for thin clients, but just run ldm instead of gdm? [09:46] s/think/thin [09:46] well, ldm isnt really written for local logins [09:46] so the /opt/ltsp directory could then be entirely dropped, and ltsp would then just become a few scripts. [09:47] ogra: i didn't mean for local logins, i menat for thin clients [09:47] oh, you want to export / instead of /opt/ltsp [09:47] (sorry for my typos, extremely lagged here) [09:47] ogra: yes. i understand that that could have its own problems too [09:48] yup [09:48] some majore ones, like security :) === rodarvus [n=rodarvus@ubuntu/member/rodarvus] has joined #edubuntu [09:48] that's what I thought too :( [09:48] but there must be a way to get around it. [09:48] hmm, no usplash on ppc live [09:49] highvoltage, well i like the idea of having a distinct system thats tailored for the task [09:49] the speedups i did wouldnt work in a real system for example [09:49] boot speedup i mean [09:50] for example? [09:50] the initscripts we dropped [09:50] you could do that with a new runlevel. [09:50] thats no option in a debian based system [09:50] aah [09:50] you dont touch the defaults here [09:51] i think i'll read some more debian policy tonight === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #edubuntu === RichEd [n=richard@dsl-146-132-138.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #edubuntu === RichEd|away [n=RichardW@dsl-146-132-138.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #edubuntu ["~] [10:46] -> shower - 15 mins === cbx33 [n=c2df514b@84-45-197-14.no-dns-yet.enta.net] has joined #edubuntu === markit86 [n=markit86@80-43-44-86.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #edubuntu [11:41] question posed by xchat channel: why make xchat-gnome default over xchat (via Synaptic search & install) ? [11:44] who does that ? [11:45] ogra: not sure what you mean ? [11:49] who makes xchat-gnome default over xchat ? [11:50] i was using Xchat on XP ... after our chat this morning, i wanted to install on Edubuntu, so opened Synaptics, searched for xchat & installed what was listed [11:50] oh, you probably dont have universe enabled [11:50] how do i do that ? === ogra_ [n=ogra@p5089F9F9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #edubuntu [12:00] go into the add/remove applications tool from your menu [12:00] on the top right (at least in edgy) it has a selector [12:00] select "all apps" [12:00] then search for xchat [12:01] RichEd, ^^^^^^^^^ [12:01] :D [12:04] doing that now ... [12:06] okay ... i need to select : show unsported applications and then i see: XChat IRC [12:06] yep [12:06] above xchat-gnome i think :) [12:07] if i don't do that: i see" XChat - GNOME IRC [12:07] nope below ! [12:07] -gnome was moved to main, xchat was moved to universe, dont ask mwe why ... [12:08] well, for me its above :) [12:08] so if the average user is told : search for and install xchat ... they end up with Gnome version [12:08] well, they end up with the version we support [12:09] (and then ask some misdirected interface questions in #xchat "why is this different to what I saw in XP yesterday") :) [12:09] again, dont ask me why i'm a big opponent to xchat-gnome as well as i dont like the idea of abusing an IM client to do IRC [12:09] but seb128 and the desktop team decided both of these ... [12:09] but i know we can't support all, and GNMOE looks a bit simpler for the new user [12:10] it lacks a lot of features [12:10] and i (as many other people ) find the UI unusable [12:10] yep ... that is the sort of question i was asking in #xchat = no right click whois display [12:11] yup [12:11] was also goping to ask about alternate nicks in settings ... [12:11] and you cant move the userlist to the other side for example [12:11] i find that very disturbing [12:11] you can't even show it ! unless you click on the button (transient window) [12:11] the topic ui is horrible [12:12] either you cant read the topic or it eats all of your windowsize [12:12] ... okay will install XChat ... and make notes for later suggestions ... [12:12] tx. [12:12] i'd have goine for xchat in edubuntu ... [12:12] but not for xchat-gnome [12:13] (we have some freedom what apps we select ;) ) [12:13] going for xchat wiould have meant that we'd have to support the same app with different UI twice ... so that wasnt an option [12:16] i'll boot to Ubuntu just now & see if the install behavior is the same (and Kubuntu) ... === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #edubuntu [12:18] hi [12:18] ubuntu is surely the same [12:18] kubuntu will likely be different i'm not sure they even have a install/remove equivalent [12:19] RichEd: do you reboot when you want another display environment? === ogra ponders dropping kig and getting drgeo to main and into edubuntu ... [12:20] yes highvoltage : reasons as follows: [12:20] (1) want to test all installs as they are released [12:20] ogra: are you on the k12osn mailing list? some misguided soul posted edubuntu feedback there :) [12:20] (2) want to learn the exact differences [12:20] heh, no, i'm not :) === jsgotangco just had a wonderful lunch with the head of one of the most powerful and influential non-profit foundation in the country regarding edubuntu [12:20] (3) want to learn the similarities of the underlying installs [12:20] RichEd: if you don't mind running non-free software, you could also use vmware to install it, which is very time consuming [12:21] i mean, time saving :) [12:21] and want to be able to demo to others as they would experience it [12:21] RichEd, apart from the desktop they are all identical [12:21] RichEd: i think we're in business here [12:21] jsgotangco, YAY ! [12:21] ogra: i think you'll be coming here soon =) [12:22] *by force* [12:22] hundreds jsgotangco :) [12:22] and i think our knot 1 is ready to go ! (after three days and several nightshifts *sigh*) [12:22] ogra: i actually had a successful install an hour ago for amd64 [12:22] jsgotangco, hehe, cool, i'll come with pleasure :) [12:22] highvoltage: i already noted your comments earlier, and JaneW explained some of this [12:23] but i am a 1st principles sort of a person ... learn from the gound up without any shortcuts before i undertstand them fully [12:23] jsgotangco, me too ... i386 did make probs ... but i found out it simply doesn like the APIC of my turon CPU [12:23] *turion [12:23] i think the baseline is successful installation after all its just a bunch of syncs [12:23] right? [12:23] so i will be ready for simplification & tips in a while ... and have planned my partitions so that i can change without losing any data [12:25] there isn't much edgy features in knot-1 except a bunch of new apps [12:25] [ i always used to get moaned at in school for deriving theoroms in an exam instaed of learning them as given in class ] :) [12:26] jsgotangco: send me an email update if you have a chance ... is this related to yesterdays chat ? [12:27] jsgotangco, yep, but there are things like only half written sources.list files etc ... [12:27] RichEd: nope this is bigger, i just had this a few weeks ago, but only had the chance to had lunch with the head today [12:27] RichEd: this is more tangible in a sense [12:28] RichEd: because its led by the foundation of the biggest media network here [12:28] im drafting an email later about it [12:28] thats the countrywide thing ? [12:28] well even better then :) results & a voice to sing about it ! [12:28] ogra: yeah [12:28] yay [12:28] i will most likely work there [12:28] cool ! [12:29] ogra: http://www.abs-cbnfoundation.com/ [12:29] why is their site in IIS [12:29] heh [12:30] "in the service of the filipino child" ... nice slogan :) [12:31] i wonder if the installer is clever enough to carry over the nolapic option to grub ... [12:32] so if things push through, i'll be working on ubuntu/edubuntu but not hired directly by canonical heh [12:32] full time [12:32] i never tried that [12:32] wow [12:32] i tink that's a nice thought [12:32] doing something like what guadalinex did [12:32] so if i every should get fired i know where to ask for a job as your helper :) [12:33] this is a very influential foundation [12:33] s/every/ever/ [12:34] ogra: http://www.newsflash.org/2004/02/sb/sb003803.htm [12:36] i knew from starters they need something happening when i saw her office PC running windows98 === ogra wonderswhy all these wimen in education are called lopez ... :) [12:38] ogra: she's into meditation and she saying that ubuntu is spiritually clean [12:38] the boss of linex is also a woman and her lkast name is lopez :) [12:38] that was unexpected (ubuntu being spiritually clean) === jsgotangco in his mind he was telling himself he just likes using linux [12:39] because her yoga teacher introduced her to ubuntu and sayign that this is "clean" because the people behind it have good intentions compared to what you are using "windows" [12:40] ogra: did you say your script is updated now? [12:40] cbx33, no, and i wont ... simply because adding such an option is useless :) [12:40] we dont have dapper daily CDs :) [12:40] hmmm [12:40] there are always only the devel distro ones ... [12:40] :S [12:40] if i use the script on an edgy iso, it'll rsycn to dapper? [12:41] nope [12:41] it defaults to edgy [12:41] what were you saying the other day then about the new script? [12:41] I'm confused? [12:41] in this regard its updated ... [12:41] i thought it just refers to the file name [12:41] oh, did you mean to sync back to dapper? [12:41] but i didnt add an --distro option [12:41] no i didn't want that [12:41] :p [12:41] because that'd be uesless :) [12:41] becuase i used it and i was able to rsynch [12:41] yep [12:42] but as long as it' updated I'll fix up my gui for it [12:42] so it doesn't need an update :P [12:42] because it works as is [12:42] it was updated :) [12:42] when? [12:42] a week ago or so [12:42] ahh [12:42] im safe then [12:42] :p [12:43] well going back [12:43] talking about ubuntu being spiritually clean was a bit weird though [12:43] anyway, since its really dumb it only rsyncs what it finds under http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/ [12:43] yeah that's what i thought [12:43] and there is no distro name in that url :) [12:44] but it assembles the iso names from the distro name ... so i had to adjust that [12:44] yes [12:44] I know :p [12:44] but if you already have an existing iso, it doesn't need an adjustment [12:44] well, it does [12:45] but you cannot use it to update a dapper iso to edgy [12:45] can you? [12:45] edgy-install-amd64.iso [12:45] there is edgy in it :) [12:45] because what i did was download edgy first, then rsync it using the script from the dailies [12:45] it rsyncs $distro-$flavor-$arch.iso [12:47] i copied the dapper isos and rsynced on top of that ... [12:47] didnt really give any advantage :) [12:49] heh [12:50] what's the chance that this build is knot-1 [12:50] high? [12:50] because it iinstalls fine [12:50] look into your source.list :) [12:51] we'll have another (last) build [12:51] jsgotangco: re the spiritual thing ... lovely comment ... that is the sort of thing we can use as a "real user quote" ... [12:52] fits with the whole ubuntu meaning ... [12:52] i didnt think of it at all when she said that [12:52] so it was kind of interesting [12:52] RichEd: im writing an introductory email later [12:52] as we have discussed [12:53] i'll make a note of it ... we can sure use that in the press ... once we have "cleansed her" and are ready to talk about success [12:53] jsgotangco: tx [12:54] "proprietary os cleansing" lol [12:54] RichEd: have you seen the link i gave to ogra? [12:55] RichEd: : http://www.newsflash.org/2004/02/sb/sb003803.htm [12:57] purge baby purge ... we'll also offer exorcisms for particulary difficult embedded systems :) [12:57] is the convention desktop and alternative now? [12:57] instead of live and install? [12:57] yes [12:57] since dapper [12:58] jsgotangco: opening link while i load up a coffee ... [12:58] I don;t actually think I need to do anything [12:58] anyone in the mood to try out grasynco? [12:58] the gui to rsyncer.sh ? === markit86 [n=markit86@80-43-44-86.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #edubuntu [01:01] branch at http://www.progbox.co.uk/grasynco [01:01] shuold be uptodate [01:01] but it is still beta [01:01] I will not be held responsible if it breaks your isos [01:01] :p [01:02] actually..... [01:02] I want to make one more revision [01:02] then it'll be almost perfect :p [01:11] it shall be known as the great grasynco [01:11] heh [01:11] sound like an italian job [01:11] heheh [01:11]