[12:15] <mpt> so *that*'s what happens when BugSubscriptions isn't implemented as designed :-/
[12:30] <milosz_> hai
[06:01] <mpt__> Goooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[07:38] <stub> mpt: Are we still calling projects projects, or product groups?
[07:46] <jamesh> stub: I think they're still projects
[08:28] <mpt_> stub, projects
[08:39] <jamesh> mpt_: I'm reviewing BjornT's bug tags branch at the moment and had a few questions
[08:40] <jamesh> mpt_: currently it preserves tag ordering and tag duplicates, which I found a bit surprising since I haven't seen any other website do that.  What do you think?
[08:47] <carlos> morning
[08:54] <BjornT> jamesh: fwiw, i did it since it was simplest implementation wise ;), and i wanted to get the branch landed this week. i'd still have time to change the behavior if needed, though.
[08:57] <jamesh> BjornT: okay.  Just seemed a bit strange to me
[08:59] <jamesh> BjornT: I guess it'd be pretty easy to change later too: just delete duplicate BugTag records and fix the Bug.tags property
[09:03] <BjornT> jamesh: yeah. and an easy fix i could do now is to sort and remove duplicates when displaying the tags on the bug page.
[09:04] <jamesh> BjornT: I'll send the review soon.  Just finishing it off
[09:04] <BjornT> cook, thanks.
[09:43] <jamesh> BjornT: sent.  Ignore the revno in the subject though (I pasted the wrong one)
[10:41] <stub> My db patch should have prevented duplicate tags
[10:49] <jamesh> stub: yeah, your DBA review did add such a constraint
[10:49] <jamesh> stub: but BjornT's code allows duplicate tags through (and even tests that they work)
[11:21] <SteveA> bradb: ping
[12:17] <spiv> jamesh: your mail about randomisation seems to have a half-finished paragraph in the middle.
[12:39] <SteveA> spiv, jamesh: this is excellent research and thinking.
[01:00] <Spads> Is anyone here on the ubuntu-bugs list?
[01:03] <Spads> ah, never mind, found what i was looking for
[01:16] <cprov> good morning
[01:17] <danilos> cprov: good afternoon ;)
[01:21] <danilos> jamesh, BjornT: I've got a method which is a candidate for sharing, and don't know where to put it; it gets rosetta-admins email to be used in different notifications all around the system (see bug 2181)
[01:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 2181 in rosetta "Rosetta automated e-mail should come from @launchpad.net" [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2181
[01:23] <cprov> danilos: :P
[01:23] <jamesh> danilos: there is canonical/launchpad/helpers.py, but that is a bit of a dumping ground and will probably get picked up in review
[01:23] <danilos> jamesh: yeah, carlos already mentioned that this is going out
[01:24] <danilos> I mean, helpers.py is to be avoided :)
[01:24] <jamesh> danilos: so this is basically doing getUtility(ILaunchpadCelebrities).rosetta_expert.preferredemail.email ?
[01:24] <danilos> yeah
[01:24] <danilos> jamesh: and the only other thing it has is an assert to check that there actually is an email defined
[01:25] <jordi> when I see "danilos" I can't hlep thinking there's more than one danilo
[01:25] <danilos> jamesh: not sure if that's the best way, but that's how it's done at the moment inside po_export_queue.py :)
[01:25] <mpt__> ditto
[01:25] <danilos> jordi: well, you have met us all, and you know I am schizophrenic :P
[01:25] <jamesh> danilos: if you're using simple_sendmail_from_person, you can just pass getUtility(ILaunchpadCelebrities).rosetta_expert
[01:25] <mpt__> jordi, don't forget the Kashubian plurals
[01:25] <jamesh> danilos: does that really need a helper?
[01:26] <danilos> jamesh: I don't know, but what will happen rosetta-admin teams loses its email address? will it blindly pick up the server address, so it would at least work?
[01:26] <danilos> or will we get an exception?
[01:27] <jamesh> danilos: then things would be broken
[01:27] <carlos> danilos: it depends on how do you use it
[01:27] <jordi> mpt__: yup
[01:27] <jordi> I'll write a request now
[01:27] <danilos> jamesh, carlos: well, I am modifying the existing code, not writing too much of my own
[01:31] <danilos> jamesh, carlos: so, I'd do this: switch to simple_sendmail_from_person for all simple_sendmail, and add a check inside simple_sendmail_from_person to see if there is preferredemail defined in the first place
[01:31] <danilos> though, if it's not defined, I don't know what to do: ignore, raise an exception, hardcode something?
[01:32] <danilos> return false?
[01:32] <carlos> danilos: I don't remember exactly the method
[01:32] <carlos> but there is one method that if the team lacks a preferred email address
[01:32] <jamesh> danilos: you'll already get an exception if there is no preferred email, which should get noticed in the errors list
[01:32] <carlos> it sends the email to the members of the team
[01:33] <jamesh> danilos: if we break the rosetta admins team, it would be good to notice :)
[01:33] <carlos> hmm, ok, forget what I told you
[01:33] <jamesh> carlos: this is to pick a From: address for an outgoing email.
[01:33] <carlos> we need a unique email address to use in the 'From' field...
[01:33] <carlos> jamesh: yeah, just remembered it ;-)
[01:34] <danilos> jamesh: yeah, so you think I should simply try to use simple_sendmail_from_person, and we'll process the oops reports? :)
[01:34] <cprov> BjornT: thank you for the reasonable review comments ...
[01:35] <danilos> jamesh: the problem with that is that we'll get a lot of failing emails (I think it's better for them to go through, even if 'from' would be incorrect)
[01:38] <spiv> jamesh: so no code turned out to depend on "a = results[0] ; b = results[0] " giving the same result, or it did turn out that anywhere that did was buggy and needed to specify and ordering anyway?
[01:39] <spiv> s/and ordering/an ordering/
[01:39] <carlos> danilos: well, I don't think is usual that it fails
[01:39] <carlos> it means that someone (me or a launchpad admin) removes the email address....
[01:40] <danilos> carlos: well, SMTP envelope will probably contain the address of the user zope runs under anyway
[01:40] <carlos> I'm not quite sure about it...
[01:41] <danilos> except that implementation asserts when from is not defined
[01:42] <danilos> carlos: yeah, and the thing is to catch when some of the launchpad admins or you break the rosetta-admins team ;)
[01:42] <danilos> carlos: if it weren't for that requirement, I'd simply use preferredemail everywhere
[01:50] <jamesh> spiv: not that I ran into.
[01:52] <spiv> jamesh: Fair enough :)
[01:53] <spiv> jamesh: I think it makes sense; anywhere that it makes a difference is by definition not choosing a deterministic ordering.
[01:54] <stub> Launchpad meeting in 6 minutes. Workrave now if you need to.
[01:55] <danilos> hi salgado
[01:55] <salgado> hi danilos 
[02:01] <stub> Meeting time.
[02:01] <stub> Appologies from Steve and Kiko who are stuck in meetings. I've been asked to chair this weeks edition.
[02:01] <stub> Our agenda is:
[02:01] <stub> Roll call
[02:01] <stub> Agenda
[02:01] <stub> Next meeting
[02:01] <stub> Activity reports
[02:01] <stub> Actions from last meeting
[02:01] <stub> Oops report (Matsubara)
[02:01] <stub> Bug report report (mpt)
[02:01] <lifeless> I'm kindof here, but as its not actually a regular meeting for me, I'm also kinda not here
[02:01] <stub> Sysadmin requests
[02:01] <stub> Production and staging (Stuart)
[02:02] <stub> browser unit tests (ddaa/salgado)
[02:02] <stub> (other items)
[02:02] <stub> Keep, Bag, Change
[02:02] <stub> Three sentences
[02:02] <stub> PM me for extra agenda items.
[02:02] <salgado> this is from last week, no?
[02:02] <stub> So who is here?
[02:02] <malcc> me
[02:02] <BjornT> me
[02:02] <carlos> me
[02:02] <mpt__> me
[02:02] <matsubara> me
[02:02] <jamesh> me
[02:02] <danilos> me
[02:02] <salgado> me
[02:02] <mpt__> yes, browser unit tests was last week
[02:02] <spiv> me
[02:02] <ddaa> nme
[02:03] <stub> bradb: ping
[02:03] <stub> carlos: ping
[02:03] <stub> cprov: ping
[02:03] <cprov> me
[02:03] <stub> jamesh: ping
[02:03] <cprov> stub: sorry
[02:03] <carlos> stub: I already said 'me' ;-)
[02:03] <stub> oops
[02:03] <jamesh> stub: I already said me
[02:04] <stub> Kinnison: ping
[02:04] <stub> Anyone else who should be here but isn't?
[02:05] <salgado> hmmm. flacoste?
[02:05] <carlos> jordi: ?
[02:05] <danilos> stub: shall we not move to #launchpad-meeting?
[02:05] <Kinnison> Sorry, I'm here
[02:05] <Kinnison> I was tending a baking potato
[02:06] <stub> Sure. Please join #launchpad-meeting peoples.
[02:06] <LarstiQ> as an outsider, I enjoy attending the meetings in here
[02:06] <jamesh> we usually do the weekly meeting here
[02:06] <salgado> why are we moving to #launchpad-meeting?
[02:06] <danilos> I think we moved there last week
[02:06] <stub> Ok. We stay here then unless anyone can think of a good answer to that question ;)
[02:07] <mpt> danilos, well I was here last week and I've never been there before
[02:07] <carlos> danilos: we move there only for concrete meetings not for the general one
[02:07] <danilos> mpt: hum, ok, maybe I am misremembering, but I don't know then how do I know of #launchpad-meeting at all :)
[02:07] <stub> Anyway. Our first item is next weeks meeting. Same time next week?
[02:07] <Kinnison> Sure
[02:07] <carlos> sure
[02:07] <salgado> and same channel
[02:08] <stub> :-)
[02:08] <danilos> salgado: :)
[02:08] <carlos> danilos: you had a meeting there with Steve and me when you started
[02:08] <stub> Nays?
[02:08] <stub> 5
[02:08] <danilos> carlos: ah, ok, I am getting aged thus I forget things
[02:08] <stub> 4
[02:08] <stub> 3
[02:08] <stub> 2
[02:08] <stub> 1
[02:08] <stub> Activity reports. Who is up to date, and who is slack?
[02:08] <stub> I'm up to date
[02:09] <BjornT> up to date
[02:09] <cprov> I'm up to date
[02:09] <spiv> I'm up to date.
[02:09] <salgado> I'm up to date
[02:09] <danilos> I'm behind, will send them out today for this week
[02:09] <carlos> I'm behind
[02:09] <mpt> up to date
[02:09] <ddaa> up to date
[02:09] <matsubara> up to date but I'm batcher
[02:09] <jamesh> I'm behind
[02:09] <malcc> I'm behind
[02:09] <malcc> I have a batched report to send, but my outgoing mail is down
[02:09] <stub> I think Steve and Kiko are bad too, although they have an excuse this week.
[02:09] <Kinnison> I've still not managed to get back going
[02:10] <jordi> Hello
[02:10] <jordi> I'm behind
[02:10] <stub> It is easy once you get in the habit. I personally don't worry if they are incomplete or not 100% in some way - they still serve their primary purpose.
[02:10] <jordi> sorry, distracted by office stuff
[02:11] <jordi> I have backlog of reports, but at least about half are ready in my postponed mbox
[02:11] <jordi> should work on that this wekek
[02:11] <stub> I'll assume that is everybody since I can't count
[02:12] <stub> And again, just try and send out what you have every day. Back logs on this sort of beurocracy suck.
[02:12] <stub> Moving along...
[02:13] <stub> Actions from last meeting. Anyone know what they were?
[02:13] <mpt> There were none
[02:13] <stub> Excellent ;)
[02:14] <danilos> stub: I think it's everyone, there are 13 of us afaict
[02:14] <mpt> Though someone probably should have written up something about the new test policy
[02:14] <stub> Indeed. So we should make that an action item of this meeting. Who gets it?
[02:14] <ddaa> mpt: ++ I just read the meeting summary and I did not find it had a very clear conclusion
[02:15] <stub> ddaa: So it needs further discussion this meeting do you think? Or discuss it after?
[02:15] <ddaa> ddaa: I'm said to want too many things, I do not with to discuss it anymore
[02:16] <mpt> (Sorry for not suggesting that earlier this week when I compiled the meeting notes)
[02:16] <ddaa> should be up to reviewers to make sure people are more reasonable with doctests AFAICT
[02:17] <ddaa> stub: let's move on
[02:17] <mpt> spiv, perhaps?
[02:18] <stub> It sounds like responsibility will lie with the reviewers, so should this be discussed amongst them?
[02:19] <mpt> ok, I'll put it in ReviewerMeetingAgenda if it's not there already
[02:19] <mpt> NEXT
[02:19] <stub> ok. Action item for me to write up some test policy or punt it to someone better suited.
[02:20] <stub> Next is the OOPS report (matsubara)
[02:20] <matsubara> Today's oops report is about bugs 44860, 51750, 31382, and 52574.
[02:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44860 in rosetta "Crash when we try to pass a query string to a POFile that doesn't exist yet." [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44860
[02:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 51750 in soyuz "Somehow got two buildqueue records with same builder." [High,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/51750
[02:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31382 in launchpad "OOPS: unicode object is not callable" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31382
[02:20] <matsubara> carlos, what do you think of re-assign bug 44860 to danilos? I remember that you said that kiko's branch had a fix for it. I don't think he landed that branch, did he?
[02:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44860 in rosetta "Crash when we try to pass a query string to a POFile that doesn't exist yet." [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44860
[02:20] <carlos> matsubara: no, he didn't 
[02:20] <matsubara> malcc, how's bug 51750 going?
[02:20] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 51750 in soyuz "Somehow got two buildqueue records with same builder." [High,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/51750
[02:20] <carlos> matsubara: at least I'm not aware of that
[02:21] <matsubara> carlos: so, what do you think of danilos work on it? 
[02:21] <carlos> matsubara: I'm finishing my current task so I will be able to look into that bug now
[02:21] <malcc> matsubara: The new constraint is on dogfood, but we're waiting on some admin changes to get dogfood UI working again so we can test it properly
[02:21] <carlos> matsubara: but if danilo is happy working on it, It's ok 
[02:21] <danilos> carlos, matsubara: yeah, I'd like to work on that
[02:21] <stub> malcc: This is Bug 51750 you are talking about?
[02:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 51750 in soyuz "Somehow got two buildqueue records with same builder." [High,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/51750
[02:21] <matsubara> malcc: rt?
[02:22] <danilos> carlos, matsubara: should I reassign to myself right away?
[02:22] <malcc> cprov: Is there an rt number for the dogfood UI fixing?
[02:22] <matsubara> danilos: please do
[02:22] <carlos> danilos: yes, please
[02:22] <BjornT> matsubara: i'll take a look at 31382 today or tomorrow.
[02:22] <cprov> malcc: yes, RT 12700
[02:22] <matsubara> thanks a lot BjornT 
[02:22] <malcc> stub: Yes, 51750
[02:22] <malcc> matsubara: I'm not sure the errors you've been seeing are related to that bug though
[02:23] <stub> 31382 doesn't look urgent, even if it is generating a lot of oops, as it is only triggered by hand manipulated URLs, so prioritize accordingly.
[02:24] <danilos> ok, reassigned 44860 to myself
[02:24] <matsubara> Bug 52574 was triggered again. SteveA has asked me to inform when that happens. I've updated the bug description with the new OOPS.
[02:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 52574 in launchpad "KeyError exception raised while retrieving $bug/+text page." [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/52574
[02:24] <danilos> matsubara: should I prioritize it over my other bugs?
[02:24] <matsubara> danilos: yes, please, that bug is triggered quite often
[02:25] <danilos> matsubara: ok, will work on that one after the meeting (and lunch)
[02:25] <matsubara> danilos: and oopses while the user is translating stuff
[02:25] <malcc> matsubara: I think the oopses you've put down to 51750 are actually 53437, which we know recurred earlier this week
[02:26] <stub> matsubara: I've just subscribed Steve to Bug 52574 so he sees it
[02:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 52574 in launchpad "KeyError exception raised while retrieving $bug/+text page." [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/52574
[02:26] <matsubara> thanks stub 
[02:26] <matsubara> malcc: I wasn't aware of that bug. thanks for pointing that to me. 
[02:27] <stub> matsubara: So it looks like we are on top of the major OOPS triggers this week? Or do we need assignees for any in particular?
[02:28] <matsubara> stub: nope, seems everything is fine
[02:28] <matsubara> I'm done here stub, thanks.
[02:28] <stub> Ok. Next on the agenda is mpt's bug bug report report
[02:28] <mpt> Today's oldest most important unresolved bug reports are:
[02:28] <matsubara> thanks everyons
[02:28] <mpt> Bug 2497 (/people/*/+translations times out for prolific translators), Critical, Confirmed, kiko, who's not here
[02:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 2497 in rosetta "/people/*/+translations times out for prolific translators" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2497
[02:28] <mpt> Bug 31038 [private] , Critical, Confirmed, cprov
[02:28] <mpt> Bug 31609 (buildd maintainers need to be informed of build failures), Critical, Confirmed, cprov
[02:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31609 in soyuz "buildd maintainers need to be informed of build failures" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31609
[02:28] <mpt> Bug 32073 (isolation parameter to initZopeless is not working), Critical, Confirmed, stub
[02:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 32073 in launchpad "isolation parameter to initZopeless is not working" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/32073
[02:28] <mpt> Bug 35965 (exceptions in process-upload not communicated to uploader), Critical, Confirmed, cprov
[02:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 35965 in qprocd "exceptions in process-upload not communicated to uploader" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/35965
[02:28] <mpt> Bug 37897 (renaming project, product or series breaks vcs imports), Critical, Confirmed, ddaa
[02:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 37897 in launchpad-bazaar "renaming project, product or series breaks vcs imports" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37897
[02:29] <mpt> stub, will you get 32073 done this week?
[02:29] <ddaa> ACTION: ddaa to spec for 37897 and hand over
[02:29] <mpt> cprov, is there any way others can help you be less doomed?
[02:29] <stub> The initZopeless one I recently raised to Critical, as I currently need to shut Launchpad down to do the shipit exports. I want this fixed by Tuesday.
[02:30] <xenru|clone> hi there
[02:30] <cprov> mpt: malcc is already helping me
[02:30] <stub> I should have time for this.
[02:30] <mpt> ok
[02:30] <malcc> mpt: Also we have limited time to pump Kinnison for all his knowledge, and get our archive rework and PPA underway, before he is no more
[02:30] <stub> xenru|clone: Hi. There is a meeting on at the moment if you are wondering about the noise.
[02:30] <mpt> Bug 42573 (Look in the debbugs archive when syncing bug watches), Critical, Confirmed, kiko, who's not here
[02:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42573 in malone "Look in the debbugs archive when syncing bug watches" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42573
[02:30] <mpt> Bug 42928 (vcs-imports needs tests), Critical, Confirmed, ddaa 
[02:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 42928 in launchpad-bazaar "vcs-imports needs tests" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42928
[02:31] <mpt> Bug 31308 (Cannot set branch associated to a product series), Critical,
[02:31] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31308 in launchpad-bazaar "Cannot set branch associated to a product series" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31308
[02:31] <mpt> Confirmed, lifeless
[02:31] <mpt> Bug 48860 ("Also notified" makes difficult to unsubscribe), Critical, Confirmed, unassigned
[02:31] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 48860 in malone ""Also notified" makes difficult to unsubscribe" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48860
[02:31] <mpt> BjornT, is 42573 one you can/should take over?
[02:31] <xenru|clone> can somebody help me, I'm planing big zope3-based site and what to know what hardware behind launchpad and how it loaded
[02:31] <mpt> lifeless, are you still LP hacking, or should 31308 go to someone else?
[02:32] <BjornT> mpt: i could, but i won't have time for it this week, and next week i'll be on vacation.
[02:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44986 in launchpad-bazaar "vcs-imports cannot post +sourceadmin" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44986
[02:32] <xenru|clone> sorry if interrupr your conversation
[02:32] <mpt> xenru|clone, we should be done in about 15 minutes
[02:32] <stub> Are we getting complaints about the debbugs bugwatches failing? The debbugs problem might not be critical.
[02:32] <ddaa> bug 31308 still blocked on lifeless speccing a fix
[02:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 31308 in launchpad-bazaar "Cannot set branch associated to a product series" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31308
[02:32] <mpt> bradb, have you had any such complaints?
[02:33] <BjornT> stub, mpt: no complaints on the debbugs problem. it only affect old, closed bugs, so it's not a big problem i'd say.
[02:33] <mpt> ok, I'll downgrade it
[02:33] <mpt> lifeless, ping?
[02:33] <mpt> otherwise, stub, I'm done
[02:33] <xenru|clone> ok, than I'll sit and look :)
[02:34] <stub> That all seems fine.
[02:34] <lifeless> mpt: it should not be assigned to me
[02:34] <lifeless> mpt: I'll be writing a spec for it
[02:34] <ddaa> lifeless: let's talk about that post meeting
[02:34] <lifeless> once the spec is written, someone should be assigned to implement.
[02:34] <stub> Sysadmin requests. Anything outstanding that is causing trouble?
[02:34] <mpt> lifeless, I have a soyuz bug assigned to me only because I need to spec it
[02:34] <mpt> reassign when done, yes
[02:34] <lifeless> mpt: I'm focused on bzr performance for the next 2 months
[02:34] <ddaa> mpt++
[02:35] <stub> I believe everything we have asked for for demo.launchpad.net has been sorted.
[02:35] <stub> 5
[02:35] <stub> 4
[02:35] <stub> 3
[02:35] <stub> 2
[02:35] <stub> 1
[02:35] <lifeless> voip
[02:35] <lifeless> did I sneak in in time ?
[02:36] <lifeless> I have a syadmin request open for voip login problems
[02:36] <lifeless> and the audio quality is rather terrible.
[02:36] <lifeless> I understand malcc has the same audio problems I do
[02:37] <stub> Ok. Is this something the sysadmins can look into? Or is it problems with the upstream software or interaction with Ubuntu?
[02:37] <malcc> lifeless: I call voicemail, it says "m.m.m.a.a.a.i.i.i.l.l.l.b.b.b.o.o.o.x.x.x...n.n.n.u.u.u.m.m.m.b.b.b.e.e.e.r.r.r". Sound similar?
[02:38] <jamesh> lifeless: it is probably worth getting a few people to call each other in each pairwise combination and report which calls have the problems
[02:38] <lifeless> stub: the RT request I have filed is about login errors.
[02:38] <xenru|clone> malcc: I have sometimes problem like this on my laptop
[02:38] <mpt> I have yet to use the voip successfully
[02:38] <jamesh> then work out what is special about those people :)
[02:38] <lifeless> stub: I think there should be a bug open for the audio, but we should get some stats first, as jamesh suyggests
[02:38] <xenru|clone> after suspend mode
[02:38] <lifeless> malcc: It sounds like a 'ripple' in the audio.
[02:38] <xenru|clone> If reboot they gone
[02:38] <stub> voip sounds like an issue too big for just this meeting, and problems sound pervasive enough that it isn't just a Launchpad team issue.
[02:39] <lifeless> malcc: so its not elongated, but sounds like someone talking through a waterfall
[02:39] <lifeless> stub: for sure.
[02:39] <danilos> I haven't tried voip yet; do we have our own sip server as well?
[02:39] <lifeless> stub: I mentioned it because I have a ticket open ;)
[02:39] <danilos> lifeless: but you are not here
[02:39] <stub> So we need to get a response from the sysadmins on if there is anything they can do to help or if we need to escalate it somewhere else.
[02:40] <stub> lifeless: Do you want to chase your rt ticket yourself or should I talk to elmo when I see him?
[02:40] <stub> danilos: yes - there is a Canonical sip server.
[02:41] <lifeless> stub: my specific ticket I can chase.
[02:41] <stub> ok.
[02:41] <lifeless> but I suggest something be opened on a broader scale about voip voice quality
[02:41] <carlos> danilos: didn't you get your account details from the admins?
[02:41] <danilos> carlos: nope, nothing of the kind; I'll go revisit NewStaffTasks
[02:42] <stub> lifeless: Indeed. Or we need to revert to Skype.
[02:42] <malcc> danilos: I doubt it's made it to NewStaffTasks yet, it's itself new
[02:42] <stub> Anyway... time is getting short.
[02:42] <stub> Production stoof...
[02:42] <carlos> danilos: it's something new
[02:42] <stub> An attempt was made to pass through the Host: headers to the production Launchpad servers, but this failed (shipit was showing the Launchpad front page, Launchpad was showing the Blueprint front page, and Blueprint was showing the Launchpad front page). Nobody has investigated this further yet as far as I am aware.
[02:42] <stub> Diogo has increased the timeouts on the staging server. I don't know if further tweaking is needed - I'll leave that up to other peoples judgement.
[02:42] <carlos> danilos: ask the admins for those details
[02:42] <danilos> carlos, malcc: sure, will do
[02:43] <stub> Next production update will be Tuesday, running HEAD as of now unless I hear from people about important landings that need to go out.
[02:43] <stub> Any queries?
[02:43] <stub> 5
[02:43] <stub> 4
[02:43] <stub> 3
[02:43] <stub> 2
[02:44] <stub> 1
[02:44] <ddaa> cherrypick r3807
[02:44] <ddaa> please
[02:44] <stub> ddaa: Now, or on Tuesday?
[02:44] <ddaa> Yesterday would be best, but now would do :)
[02:45] <stub> ddaa: Ok. I'll look into it after the meeting, along with the other outstanding request.
[02:45] <stub> Keep, bag change.
[02:45] <carlos> stub: I will try to get a migration script merged this weekend (will be ready to be reviewed today, or I'm trying it)
[02:45] <carlos> stub: it should land next week to open Edgy to translations
[02:45] <malcc> Keep: Kinnison! Waah
[02:45] <carlos> stub: you will need to do the review due the amount of raw SQL queries that it has
[02:45] <stub> carlos: Sure. Stick it in my queue.
[02:46] <carlos> so I guess you can decide whether it's ready or not
[02:46] <stub> malcc: I don't think there is much we can do about that now. *sniff*
[02:46] <carlos> ok
[02:46] <stub> Three sentences. 
[02:46] <ddaa> DONE: Leave, merged bzr-native 2, review svn-symlinks, importd rollout, bug 44986
[02:46] <ddaa> TODO: more bzr-native, vcs imports, spec for bug 37897
[02:46] <ddaa> BLOCKED: stub to cherrypick r3807
[02:46] <Kinnison> DONE: ArchiveRework stuff, resigned, had first soyuz handoff meeting
[02:46] <Kinnison> TODO: Finish AR DB stuff, more soyuz handoff, consultancy work for soyuz
[02:46] <Kinnison> BLOCKED: None
[02:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 44986 in launchpad-bazaar "vcs-imports cannot post +sourceadmin" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44986
[02:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 37897 in launchpad-bazaar "renaming project, product or series breaks vcs imports" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/37897
[02:46] <malcc> DONE: -J bug, started landing two big branches, started Soyuz bug review
[02:46] <malcc> TODO: Bug 53437, finish landing, finish bug review, archive rework, handover
[02:46] <malcc> BLOCKED: No
[02:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 53437 in soyuz "Source-first security uploads break data" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/53437
[02:46] <matsubara> DONE: fixes some oops bugs regarding dates and polls, oops report analysis
[02:46] <matsubara> TODO: more fixing of oops, more triage and work on a tool to replay traffic on
[02:46] <matsubara> staging
[02:46] <matsubara> BLOCKED: no
[02:46] <BjornT> DONE: implemented the first phase of SimpleBugKeywords. landed a few branches. reviews. bug fixes.
[02:46] <BjornT> TODO: xmlrpc testing. vacation.
[02:46] <BjornT> BLOCKED: no
[02:46] <jamesh> DONE: code reviews, SF bug tracker import stuff for Python tracker comp, select
[02:46] <jamesh> results randomisation
[02:46] <jamesh> TODO: code reviews, python bug tracker comp stuff, london sprint
[02:46] <jamesh> BLOCKED: no
[02:46] <salgado> DONE: Some work on shipit, changed the mirror prober to follow redirects when probing release mirrors, code review and other small fixes
[02:46] <salgado> TODO: Land the shipit/mirror-prober changes, code review and other trivialities that show up
[02:46] <salgado> BLOCKED: No
[02:46] <danilos> DONE: Several rounds of #1788 review, #2237, bug-fixing (bugs 3809, 3986).
[02:46] <danilos> TODO: Ask for review of all these, merge 1788, prepare specification for variants, and choose which to work on in London.
[02:46] <danilos> BLOCKED: No
[02:46] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 3809 in rosetta "Abuse of capital letters" [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3809
[02:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 3986 in rosetta "Update links when you change a potemplatename" [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3986
[02:47] <spiv> DONE: reviews, update pagetests/branches for branch-ui, select results randomisation, bug 49991
[02:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 49991 in launchpad-bazaar "browse supermirror branches with bzr server" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/49991
[02:47] <spiv> TODO: reviews, bug 49991, bug 48671
[02:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 49991 in launchpad-bazaar "browse supermirror branches with bzr server" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/49991
[02:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 48671 in nautilus "Cannot rename by clicking on a file" [Wishlist,Rejected]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48671
[02:47] <stub> TODO: PillarNames, initZopeless isolation
[02:47] <spiv> BLOCKED: no
[02:47] <stub> DONE: PillarNames, Test  suite updates
[02:47] <stub> BLOCKED: Nope
[02:47] <carlos> DONE: Translation migrations, user support
[02:47] <cprov> DONE: general bug fixes in soyuz (52704, 49862, 52863 and 52595) sorting out milestones before dsilvers leave (ArchiveRework, PPA, fix in NascentUpload)
[02:47] <cprov> TODO: BuildFailureNotification
[02:47] <cprov> BLOCKED: None
[02:47] <carlos> TODO: finish migrations, launchpad sprint
[02:47] <mpt> DONE: bug fixes, non-Launchpad work
[02:47] <mpt> TODO: Internet-Explorer-related fixes, mad spec action
[02:47] <mpt> BLOCKED: no
[02:47] <carlos> BLOCKED: no
[02:47] <spiv> Hmm, wrong bug number.
[02:47] <ddaa> spiv: I thought so :)
[02:48] <spiv> That should be bug 48761
[02:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 48761 in launchpad "Filenames containing % (and possibly other special characters) cannot be accessed from Librarian" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48761
[02:48] <carlos> danilos: next week we will work on specs so don't expect to do code development
[02:48] <spiv> TODO: reviews, bug 49991, bug 48761
[02:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 49991 in launchpad-bazaar "browse supermirror branches with bzr server" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/49991
[02:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 48761 in launchpad "Filenames containing % (and possibly other special characters) cannot be accessed from Librarian" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48761
[02:48] <stub> The only blocker (ddaa) has already been discussed, so all good.
[02:49] <danilos> carlos: ah, ok
[02:49] <stub> I think we are done!
[02:49] <carlos> stub: thanks!
[02:49] <spiv> stub: thanks!
[02:49] <stub> 4 minutes over time.
[02:49] <ddaa> lifeless: ping
[02:49] <danilos> I'm off to lunch myself
[02:49] <ddaa> lifeless: I assigned that bug to you because you are the next person to take an aciton on it
[02:50] <ddaa> If you do not have the time to work on it, please assign it back to me
[02:50] <jamesh> cprov, malcc: there are two Kinnison branches sitting in the review queue as needs-reply for about a month.  I guess you two should take them over.
[02:50] <lifeless> thats fine by me, but I'd rather not be nagged every meeting
[02:50] <Kinnison> jamesh: I'm doing those soon
[02:50] <Kinnison> jamesh: as my dying gasp
[02:50] <lifeless> doing the spec is in my 'urgent' todo list already
[02:50] <jamesh> Kinnison: okay.  Just want to make sure we aren't left with zombie branches
[02:50] <Kinnison> :-)
[02:50] <cprov> jamesh: it's fine
[02:51] <spiv> Kinnison: what's doing to happen to your pastebin on chinstrap?
[02:51] <spiv> s/doing/going/
[02:51] <Kinnison> spiv: I expect someone else to offer to host it
[02:51] <Kinnison> :-)
[02:51] <ddaa> lifeless: I can stop nagging you on the monday meeting, not much I can do about this meeting, except drop the priority to high, which would be lying.
[02:51] <spiv> Kinnison: I guess someone will eventually poke an admin about it :)
[02:52] <Kinnison> :-)
[02:57] <xenru|clone> are you over, can I ask?
[02:57] <LarstiQ> I'd say so
[02:59] <xenru> I'm planing big zope3-based site, and want to know what hardware behind launchpad, if this information is open
[02:59] <xenru> and how this hardware is loaded
[03:00] <xenru> is there is place where I can see this information
[03:01] <stub> xenru: I don't know if the information we have online is up to date
[03:01] <lifeless> stub: given its on the wrong wiki, its definately not
[03:01] <stub> xenru: Currently Launchpad is running on 2 dual CPU AMD64 servers each with 2GB of RAM. These boxes are overpowered for what we need.
[03:02] <stub> xenru: Currently we are serving about 5 requests per second
[03:02] <stub> xenru: Large files are served via a seperate system.
[03:02] <xenru> you use some RDBS?
[03:02] <xenru> or just zodb?
[03:02] <stub> xenru: PostgreSQL 8.1 in the backend. We don't use ZODB at all.
[03:03] <bradb> ugh, i slept through my alarm :/
[03:03] <xenru> for any type of information? so zodb don't grow up?
[03:03] <stub> xenru: The main PostgreSQL 8.1 server is running on a 4 CPU dual core AMD64 system with 32GB of rRAM
[03:04] <xenru> It serve only launchpad? 
[03:04] <LarstiQ> stub: so when you say 'Launchpad is running on', that is actually only the zope instance?
[03:04] <xenru> do u use special cache mechanism ?
[03:04] <stub> xenru: Our Zope3 installation has undergone modification to remove the ZODB completely (there are some hidden dependancies we needed to remove since we wanted all our data in PostgreSQL)
[03:05] <stub> LarstiQ: Yes. The Z3 instances. There are plenty of other bits and pieces scattered around other servers (authentication server for the wikis, sftp server for the supermirror, various cron jobs, the soyuz publishing systems)
[03:06] <xenru> stup, my questions is correct? 
[03:06] <xenru> you use zope3 from trunk or outdated version?
[03:06] <stub> xenru: It is the Launchpad database. It serves the Launchpad app servers and all the other non-Z3 parts of Launchpad.
[03:07] <stub> xenru: We keep in sync with the official releases
[03:07] <xenru> so you use twisted?
[03:07] <xenru> you feel that z3 is enought mature for development right now?
[03:07] <stub> xenru: I think we have removed most of our modifications, pushing some of them upstream to SVN now.
[03:08] <stub> We use the twisted publisher now I think.
[03:08] <xenru> ok, this information is very helpful for me
[03:08] <stub> Z3 is plenty mature enough if you are writing Python code. I don't think it is ready for TTW development like Z2 yet, but I'm not up to speed with that side of things really.
[03:09] <xenru> primary for understanding performance 
[03:09] <xenru> yes we will focuse on python development
[03:11] <xenru> and last optional question is launchpad code open and if it true where I can see it?
[03:11] <stub> Launchpad code is not yet open.
[03:13] <xenru> because when Mark was in Moscow we talk about updating translations to projects repos and I offer me as fresh meat, but he not yet answered me 
[03:13] <LarstiQ> hey sladen 
[03:14] <sladen> is it just me, or has the order of bug comments just changed from top->bottom again after being a few days at  bottom->top date ordering?
[03:15] <xenru> stub: thx again, I need to go
[03:18] <LarstiQ> sladen: it seems to have sorted itself again, yes
[03:19] <stub> sladen: A fix was rolled out to fix that a few hours after it was noticed (Tuesday sometime)
[03:19] <sladen> LarstiQ: actually the bottom->top ordering was more useful and I thought it was on the cards as a feature request, so I was wondering why it had been 'rolled-back' agian
[03:19] <sladen> stub: ahh, okay.  So it was unintentional, rather than intential?
[03:20] <LarstiQ> sladen: newest first seems horrible to me
[03:20] <stub> sladen: I think so. I'm just the monkey rolling that stuff out though - I'm not sure of the details or the UI decisions ;)
[03:23] <bradb> sladen: Comment ordering is meant to be oldest to newest.
[03:26] <sladen> bradb: ok.  I'll go and hide in my hole again
[03:26] <bradb> heh
[03:32] <ddaa> stub: so, will you be able to do that cherrypick today?
[03:36] <stub> ddaa: Just done
[03:37] <salgado> stub, thanks for cherry picking the shipit changes too! :)
[03:40] <salgado> spiv, are you still around, and are you going to be around some more time?
[03:46] <spiv> salgado: I am, not sure for how long, probably a fair while.
[03:51] <jordi> SteveA: you're in Spain?
[03:51] <SteveA> hi jordi 
[03:51] <SteveA> yes
[03:51] <jordi> oh, cool
[03:51] <SteveA> in deia
[03:52] <jordi> stub: ok, I had to go afk at the magic lines time. Should i mail them to you?
[03:53] <SteveA> jordi: does the word "aubes" mean anything?
[03:54] <jordi> no
[03:54] <jordi> can you guess the contxt?
[03:54] <SteveA> jordi: or even "sa tanca dets aubes"
[03:55] <SteveA> it's the name of a house
[03:55] <jordi> let me check
[03:56] <jordi> aubes might be Mallorcan dialect for water or so
[03:56] <SteveA> figured it might be in a language like catalan
[03:56] <SteveA> is mallorcan like catalan?
[03:56] <jordi> yeah, it's definitely Catalan, but in the islands they speak weird ;)
[03:56] <jordi> it is catalan
[03:57] <jordi> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Dialectal_map_of_Catalan_Language.png
[03:57] <jordi> in that map, brown = *weird* :p
[03:58] <SteveA> i heard that other form when i was in sardinia
[03:58] <jordi> Ok, so.
[03:59] <jordi> Aubes is apparently the name of a peak in Mallorca
[03:59] <jordi> so Tanca dets aubes is like the "fence of Aubes"
[03:59] <jordi> is it "dets", not "dels"?
[03:59] <SteveA> looks like "dets" to me
[04:00] <jordi> ok, dets is valid in mallorcan
[04:01] <SteveA> thanks
[04:01] <jordi> lunch time
[04:01] <SteveA> that's interesting
[04:02] <jordi> SteveA: nI'm not sure about Aubes tho
[04:02] <jordi> does it have any accent?
[04:02] <SteveA> do
[04:08] <SteveA> um
[04:08] <SteveA> no
[04:08] <SteveA> not "do"
[04:10] <SteveA> bradb: ping
[04:10] <bradb> SteveA: pong
[04:10] <SteveA> bradb: please get a reviewer from the infrastructure team to review that change you made to pagetitles as a trivial landing.
[04:10] <SteveA> no changes to infrastructure should be trivial landings
[04:11] <bradb> SteveA: I was reverting it now, as per your instructions.
[04:11] <bradb> SteveA: I had just been talking with BjornT about maybe moving it into webapp...
[04:11] <SteveA> You're welcome to commit it again, once it has passed a review
[04:11] <SteveA> it should not be in webapp
[04:11] <SteveA> because it is domain specific
[04:11] <SteveA> it should not be in browser because it makes webapp depend on browser
[04:12] <SteveA> I'm actually going to get rid of it entirely soon
[04:12] <bradb> SteveA: isn't canonical.launchpad.webapp domain-specific too?
[04:12] <SteveA> I'm curious as to where the circular import you were aiming to fix is
[04:12] <SteveA> no, webapp is not domain specific, except in the web application framework domain
[04:15] <bradb> SteveA: the circular import is that webapp imports pagetitles, but when pagetitles is in browser, all of the browser modules have to get imported first, and at least one of the browser modules imports from webapp
[04:15] <bradb> (browser/launchpad.py)
[04:18] <lifeless> night
[04:18] <SteveA> bradb: but pagetitles is not in browser
[04:19] <SteveA> so I'm confused.  where was the circular import?
[04:19] <bradb> pagetitles is in browser
[04:19] <bradb> that's what i'm reverting
[04:19] <SteveA> ok
[04:19] <SteveA> so why did you move it there, when it *creates* circular imports?
[04:20] <bradb> SteveA: because it seemed bizarre to have a "top-level" pagetitles.py.
[04:20] <SteveA> I put it there
[04:20] <SteveA> because of the import issues
[04:20] <SteveA> and for certain other reasons
[04:21] <SteveA> I'm concerned that you made this problem, by deciding to move around some infrastrcuture, without asking infrastructure people first
[04:21] <SteveA> if you'd brought it up as an issue on the list instead
[04:21] <SteveA> or in a meeting
[04:21] <SteveA> I would have answered with reasons why it is there
[04:21] <SteveA> and we would both not have wasted any time
[04:22] <SteveA> or, if you'd made the change and put it up for review
[04:22] <bradb> Sorry, my intent was not to waste anyone's time.
[04:23] <SteveA> it would have been seen before it landed
[04:23] <SteveA> I understand that you want to improve our code organisation
[04:23] <SteveA> I appreciate that
[04:23] <SteveA> I think we should all try to improve the organisation of the code
[04:24] <SteveA> But, it's important to get things thought through -- like by talking with the people responsible for the app or infrastructure concerned
[04:24] <SteveA> and not to land it as a trivial change
[04:24] <SteveA> I think we can draw out a general rule from this:
[04:24] <SteveA>   people can land trivial changes only when they affect their own area of the codebase
[04:25] <bradb> right
[04:27] <bradb> there are two ways I could have avoided this perhaps too: 1. reading the module docstring (my thought was more conceptually that "this is a browser-related thing because it has to do with the titles that show up in my browser") and 2. thinking that if it's not rocket science to have at least considered putting it in browser, so i should have asked the creator of the file (i.e. you) why it wasn't put there to begin with.
[04:28] <SteveA> right
[04:28] <SteveA> this is confusing in part because it *should* be in browser code
[04:28] <SteveA> it is due to bad design on my part that it is where it is.  but, I do have a plan to fix this overall soon.
[04:29] <bradb> SteveA: will your plan allow views that use the same template to have different titles?
[04:29] <SteveA> yes
[04:29] <bradb> cool
[04:31] <malcc> If you're looking to draw rules from this, I'd say an element which has been deliberately placed somewhere other than the most conceptually clean place for it, for practical reasons, is a good candidate for a comment
[04:33] <LarstiQ> malcc: it sounds like the docstring might contain such a comment?
[04:33] <SteveA> it doesn't
[04:33] <SteveA> it would be an improvement for it to do so, as malcc points out
[04:33] <SteveA> bradb: would you add such a comment on your next commit to it?
[04:34] <bradb> SteveA: sure
[04:34] <SteveA> thanks brad
[04:34] <bradb> no prob
[04:36] <SteveA> malcc: would you add your guideline to our style guide please?
[04:41] <malcc> SteveA: This one? https://launchpad.canonical.com/PythonStyleGuide
[04:46] <bradb> SteveA: Do you want to review the patch to move pagetitles back?
[04:57] <SteveA> malcc, bradb: I need to get back to meetings now.  ask the code review team about where to document guidelines.  simply restoring pagetitles to how it was this morning requires no review.
[04:57] <bradb> SteveA: ok, thanks
[05:51] <carlos> see you later!
[07:01] <LobZik> hi everybody
[07:01] <danilos> LobZik: hi somebody
[07:01] <danilos> ;)
[07:01] <LobZik> :)
[07:02] <kalosaurusrex> morning!
[07:02] <kalosaurusrex> hey does launchpad have some sort of task tracking feature?
[07:03] <LobZik> mlya nihuya ne ponimyu :)
[07:04] <LarstiQ> kalosaurusrex: that depends on how advanced you need it, but it can keep track of tasks that 1 bug spawns, an upstream one, various distro ones.
[07:04] <kalosaurusrex> LarstiQ: ahh I see.  hey how do I get a new project registered?
[07:05] <LarstiQ> kalosaurusrex: project or product? Most people want the latter
[07:05] <LarstiQ> kalosaurusrex: which is done via https://launchpad.net/products/+new
[07:05] <kalosaurusrex> I have a product.  what's the diff?
[07:05] <kalosaurusrex> I have a product registered lol
[07:05] <kalosaurusrex> what's the project section for?
[07:06] <danilos> wdiff: pro-du-+je+ct
[07:06] <danilos> or something like that :)
[07:07] <kalosaurusrex> lol
[07:08] <LarstiQ> kalosaurusrex: projects are for overarching things like https://launchpad.net/projects/bzr
[07:08] <LarstiQ> kalosaurusrex: or, apache would be a project, the httpd would be a product
[07:09] <kalosaurusrex> ahh okay I see.  
[07:09] <LarstiQ> kalosaurusrex: there could be a HP printer project I suppose, if there are multiple products that fall under that
[07:09] <kalosaurusrex> I don't think so.  we only have one product, per se.
[07:09] <kalosaurusrex> eh software wise..you get me.
[07:10] <kalosaurusrex> LarstiQ: thanks!
[07:10] <LarstiQ> kalosaurusrex: so a product would be fine for you
[07:12] <kalosaurusrex> LarstiQ: yeah I think so. :)