/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/07/20/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 20 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 19:00 UTC: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 02 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
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zul@schedule montreal01:02
UbugtuSchedule for America/Montreal: 20 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 16:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu01:02
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fabbione@schedule rome04:20
UbugtuSchedule for Europe/Rome: 20 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu04:20
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anibal@schedule melbourne05:13
UbugtuSchedule for Australia/Melbourne: 21 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 Jul 05:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 02 Aug 06:00: Technical Board | 03 Aug 06:00: Edubuntu05:13
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:irc.freenode.net] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 20 Jul 15:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 19:00 UTC: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 02 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
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zul@schedule montreal12:58
UbugtuSchedule for America/Montreal: 20 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 16:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu12:58
rodarvus@schedule Sao_Paulo12:59
UbugtuSchedule for America/Sao_Paulo: 20 Jul 12:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 09:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 17:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 17:00: Edubuntu12:59
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pittihello02:54
dholbachpitti: isn't the meeting in 2h?02:55
dholbach@schedule berlin02:55
UbugtuSchedule for Europe/Berlin: 20 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu02:55
dholbachbut hello pitti :)02:55
pittidholbach: oh dear, 15:00 *UTC*02:56
dholbach:-)02:56
dholbachthat's why i go for lunch and a walk now02:56
dholbach;)02:56
Seveasdholbach, try @now02:57
Seveas@now berlin02:57
=== pitti has to get used to the new schedule
pitticu then :)02:57
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UbugtuCurrent time in Europe/Berlin: July 20 2006, 14:57:16 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Development Team in 2 hours 2 minutes02:57
dholbachSeveas: nice02:57
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jjesse@schedule detroit03:54
UbugtuSchedule for America/Detroit: 20 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 16:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu03:54
irvin@now manila03:57
UbugtuCurrent time in Asia/Manila: July 20 2006, 21:57:05 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Development Team in 1 hour 2 minutes03:57
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Hobbsee@schedule sydney04:15
UbugtuSchedule for Australia/Sydney: 21 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 Jul 05:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 02 Aug 06:00: Technical Board | 03 Aug 06:00: Edubuntu04:15
zul@schedule montreal04:16
UbugtuSchedule for America/Montreal: 20 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 16:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu04:16
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GNAM@schedule rome04:32
UbugtuSchedule for Europe/Rome: 20 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu04:32
GNAMwow04:32
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Ubuntu Development Team | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 Jul 19:00 UTC: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 02 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
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fschoepHello everyone.04:54
dholbachfschoep: i'm just working on the ubuntu-artwork split - once i'm done, i'll send a mail to ubuntu-art and we can get cracking :)04:55
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dholbachfschoep: sorry for not getting back to you earlier - if you have a bit of time, we can chat a bit after the meeting04:55
fschoepdholbach: no problem, I'm sure we'll get everything worked out right soon enough04:56
dholbachsuper04:56
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pittihello again04:58
dholbach:-)04:58
Kamionafternoon all04:58
jjesse_morning Kamion :)04:58
mhzhi all04:59
rodarvushello all04:59
fabbionehello04:59
=== Kamion rapidly reads up on the wiki page
ogrameep05:00
seb128good afternoon05:00
kwwiihowdy05:00
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fschoepHi Ken, how are you doing?05:00
kwwiifschoep: good, things are slowly getting better05:00
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kwwiifschoep: we should talk after the meeting05:01
fschoepkwwii: no problem05:01
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fschoepdholbach, kwwii: can I get something like half an hour after the meeting to eat dinner and then discuss things?05:02
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dholbachfschoep: sure05:02
kwwiiyepp05:02
Riddellno mdz today?05:02
DSG-01hello05:02
ograhe melted i spain :)05:02
Leonoxhi05:02
ogra*in05:02
Kamionmdz said he probably wouldn't make it05:02
fschoepWho's in charge now?05:02
KamionI'll chair - just finding the list of people to ping elsewhere05:02
fabbioneKamion: in the wiki?05:03
dholbachmvo has his last holiday today05:03
dholbachdunno about benc05:03
Kamionfabbione: yes, but need to compare with /names here05:03
ogradholbach, his last *ever* ?05:03
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ogradholbach, so we'll never have a broken apt again ? 05:03
fabbioneKamion: it has both actually05:03
=== pitti is terribly lagged, apologies in advance if I slack with answering to someone
Mithrandirogra: yeah, no more slacking for mvo.05:03
dholbachogra: we'll see05:03
ogra:)05:03
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KeybukMithrandir: says the guy who delayed a milestone release due to "too much wine"05:04
MithrandirKeybuk: it was delayed already. :-P05:04
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Kamionis heno expected to be away at the moment?05:04
fschoepYes, he is on holiday.05:04
Kamionah, thanks05:04
pittidarn, I try connecting to another freenode server, brb05:05
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Kamionok, we should get started05:06
Kamionhas everyone read the wiki page? not everyone has filled in their information on it05:06
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fschoepKamion: I added myself even though I wasn't on there, is that OK?05:06
Kamionfschoep: yes, that's fine - we should probably add you to the template in fact05:06
KamionBenC: could you quickly dump your info into the wiki page, for the record?05:07
BenCyeah05:07
kwwiimy name is not on that list05:07
Kamionkwwii: same as fschoep, if you want to dump your done/todo in there for the record, that would be good05:07
kwwiiwill do05:07
Kamionok, in the meantime, we'll go from the bottom up05:07
KamionI suggest we try not doing the paste thing this week, in the hope that people have read the wiki page05:08
iwjI think next week we should have an announcement in advance, giving a deadline for completing the report, and encouraging the addition of extra people, etc.  I'll write one up.05:08
fabbionepitti is having network problems05:08
Kamioniwj: in fact there was an announcement on warthogs@, but that's too private; should be with the meeting announcement on -devel-announce05:08
zulKamion: ditto05:08
iwjKamion: Oh, warthogs again.  It seems I never read warthogs on Wednesdays :-).05:08
Kamionanyway, we should still go through everyone to make sure people have a chance to be quizzed and to say anything they have to say05:09
iwjRight.05:09
KamionMithrandir: you're first; anything of particular note this week?05:09
fabbionesfllaw: any specific reason for keep moving these announcements in non public places?05:09
Kamionor anything you want to grab people for next week?05:09
MithrandirI'd like to apologise for the week-long freeze.  I thought we were more ready than we were.05:09
Mithrandirhopefully, it won't happen again.05:09
=== pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
ograit was necessary05:10
Mithrandirapart from that, I don't have anything in particular.05:10
KamionI think we'll be better off next time. Most of it was because the installer just wasn't there yet.05:10
ograwe now have a stable base :)05:10
=== tritium [n=tritium@ubuntu/member/tritium] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Kamionogra: not for much longer; feature development awaits ...05:10
Mithrandiryeah, and that was a bad call on my part.  I should have waited a bit.  But, done is done.05:10
ograKamion, sure, but you have something to compare to ... to find regressions/errors next milestone ...05:10
KamionMithrandir: looks like you have a fair bit of coordination with Adam next week, but that's nothing new I guess05:10
KamionMithrandir: also, congratulations on Knot-105:11
MithrandirKamion: same goes to you, for fixing ubiquity and d-i.05:11
Mithrandiralso, thanks.05:11
KamionI expect we'll need a bit more testing of derivatives next time round05:11
Kamionthe first milestone is generally quite rough and ready05:11
KamionMithrandir: we should decide on Knot-2 timescales05:11
ograedubuntu is fine though05:12
KamionI suggest leaving a clear two weeks from now05:12
Kamionjust because otherwise the release team get nothing else done05:12
Kamiondoes that sound reasonable?05:12
MithrandirI'll be gone on vacation + wedding + honeymoon from next friday, JFYI.05:12
Mithrandirand won't be back until the sprint in London05:12
dholbachwow05:12
Mithrandiruh, not London05:12
MithrandirWiesbaden05:12
rodarvus:)05:12
Kamionah, noted; infinity/mdz/I will deal with releases, then05:12
=== pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
KamionMithrandir: please dump current sane-installer-keyboard status on me when you leave05:13
MithrandirKamion: willdo05:13
Kamionok, thank you05:13
Kamionsfllaw: anything from you this week?05:13
=== pitti waves, sorry
Kamion(if you're here ...)05:13
Mithrandirhe's not, I think.05:14
Kamiondoesn't look like it05:14
Kamionseb128: anything from you?05:14
seb128nop05:14
Hobbseelooks to be not here.   [01:14]  [Whois]  sfllaw has been idle for 10 hours, 41 minutes and 20 seconds.05:14
Kamionseb128: how is GNOME 2.15 looking upstream?05:15
seb128pretty good, already GNOME 2.15.90 next week (2.16 beta 1)05:15
seb128so they start freeze, etc05:15
fabbioneKamion: sorry pitti can't get here on freenode properly. I can forward any request to/from him05:15
Kamionfeels very early, but of course our cycle is very late this time05:15
highvoltageMithrandir: congrats05:15
ografabbione, he's here05:15
seb128right, we only packaged one devel version this cycle05:15
pittifabbione, Kamion: I'm here now, though lagged05:16
Kamionso at 2.15.90, GNOME will be in API/ABI freeze, is that right?05:16
dholbachso from now it gets better and better ;)05:16
seb128Kamion: API, ABI, UI frozen05:16
Kamionhandy for our feature development; I see a few shiny new features in GTK05:16
seb128and components list too05:16
Kamionall right05:17
KamionKeybuk: 05:17
seb128yeah, GTK 2.10 is great, especially the new printing framework (but only epiphany uses it atm I think)05:17
KeybukKamion: not much to report, Debian (for the most part) seem happy with the new PTS mails05:17
Kamionit was little things like linkbutton that I noticed05:17
pittiseb128: will the other apps be converted to use the new printing api, too?05:17
seb128yeah, lot of new cool things too (linkbutton, recently used, etc)05:18
iwjKeybuk: Do we have an official contact from Debian yet ?05:18
KeybukI'll be doing the UUID stuff and teardown now Knot Freeze is over05:18
KamionKeybuk: we need to get together early next week or tomorrow or thereabouts to make sure the partman changes for libata are right05:18
Keybukiwj: in which sense?05:18
KeybukKamion: yup, agree05:18
seb128pitti: not much this cycle, they have the same issue as we have ... cycles are short and manpower is limited05:18
pittiseb128: how urgently do you need the new hal-cvs-head-on-crack-plus-policy-kit-on-top-of-it?05:18
KamionI forgot to note that in my to-do05:18
iwjI remember mdz complaining that there wasn't anyone to have an official `Debian' opinion about this kind of thing.05:18
iwjI mean, about cooperation with Ubuntu, PTS mails, etc.05:18
Keybukiwj: there are vague movements with the DCT and Utnubu05:18
Keybukbuxy has been my contact for the PTS stuff05:19
Kamiondoes anyone in Debian really want to place themselves in front of the firing squad on that, though? :-)05:19
seb128pitti: no idea, apparently gnome-power-manager requires it to sleep and suspend and nothing else really requires it this cycle ...05:19
ograpitti, as soon as we can ... else we'll miss many g-p-m bugs 05:19
Keybukand I've found madduck to be useful to "find the right person" and me a general middle-man05:19
pittiiwj: hard to get such an opinion, short of doing an official vote...05:19
seb128pitti: we might want look are rolling back gnome-power-manager code if that's an issue05:19
iwjKamion: Well, I've got a thick skin and would volunteer except for err slight conflict of interest :-).05:19
Kamioniwj: yes, I think most of us here are similarly problematic05:19
iwjpitti: DPL should delegate.  But a `no' from Keybuk seems to be the answer.05:19
ograseb128, pitti, that whould be possible, but a lot of work, since exactly the code parts we need are vanished (or split up)05:20
Keybukaye, was just going to say, we could contact the DPL or DPL-of-Vice and ask for a delegate05:20
Keybukbut then they'd probably ask for one from us in return05:20
seb128ogra: we can stay to 2.14 for edgy ...05:20
Keybukand I'd be scared it'd be me05:20
KamionKeybuk: well volunteered05:20
ograseb128, yup, thats what i thought05:20
iwjKeybuk: I'd volunteer too if you don't want to.05:20
Riddellpitti, seb128: having a decision on HAL would be handy for me working on kubuntu-power-management05:20
pittiogra: TBH I'd rather let the dust settle down upstream and let them do a release first, but I will at least dive into it and look at the new stuff05:20
iwjBut I suspect you might do a better job.05:20
iwjWe could discuss it informally with Steve Mac if we make it to the Debian UK BBQ ?05:20
ograpitti, then lets keep 2.14, i'll look into regressions05:21
seb128ogra, pitti: in any case we should open discussion with upstream on the topic and the concerns we have05:21
ograseb128, yeah, to avoid such stuff in the future at least05:21
Kamionok, lots of conversations going on at once here, perhaps the out-of-sequence ones could move to #ubuntu-devel05:21
seb128ogra: will you contact upstream to let him know that PolicyKit is an issue?05:21
ograseb128, yup05:21
Kamionrodarvus: anything from you?05:21
=== ogra keeps quiet now until its his turn
rodarvusnot much, besides what can be read "between the lines" on my status report05:21
seb128ogra: that's going to be an issue for GNOME anyway, 2.16 can't depends on policykit if that's CVS code05:22
iwjlots of conversations> It's good to get people talking to each other but yes, perhaps elsewhere while the meeting goes on ?05:22
pittiRiddell: right, but I absolutely do not want to say yes to it until I understand fully what they are doing05:22
Keybukrodarvus: I'd like ssh access to the OLPC hardware at some point to do a general health check05:22
Kamion(really ugly) Hack to automagically check updates to packages in Debian and Ubuntu, to easy the task of comparing changes in the future (do we have some "official" tool to achieve this?)05:22
Kamionrodarvus: isn't that very closely related to what MOM does?05:22
Keybukie. a look around the hardware for anything that might be a problem for us, or any tricks we can do05:22
rodarvusKeybuk: sure, I'll try to handle that this week or next05:22
Riddellpitti: I don't care either way, just so I know what I have to develop against05:22
rodarvusKamion: I suppose so, yes05:22
Keybukrodarvus: echo subscribe debian PACKAGE | mom@ubuntu.com05:22
Kamionif it doesn't quite do the right job, I'd suggest talking to Keybuk for what you need05:22
Keybukrodarvus: ^ once elmo turns it on05:22
rodarvusI just made a quick hack to be able to check this "on my own", after the usual mom runs end05:23
Kamionrodarvus: do you expect any changes required outside the X subsystem for X 7.1?05:23
Keybukthough that might not be what you want, talk to me!05:23
rodarvusI will, thanks for the heads up! :)05:23
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Mithrandirrodarvus: are you trying to check if Debian and we are in sync or whether we're in sync with upstream?05:23
rodarvusKamion: no, not really05:23
Kamionrodarvus: there's also some noise about escalated support on certain X bugs; I'll chat with you about that afterwards if mdz hasn't done so already05:23
rodarvusMithrandir: both things, actually05:23
rodarvusKamion: he hasn't, not yet05:24
Kamionthe xresprobe blank-on-install bug and an i810 bug05:24
Mithrandirrodarvus: for the upstream bit, there's watch files.05:24
rodarvusMithrandir: indeed05:24
rodarvus(but it was just four lines on the script to check upstream too :) )05:24
dokorodarvus: we had a spec to follow upstream versions, have to ask lifeless when it gets deployed. tracking debian versions will be done when debian is imported into launchpad (according to cprov)05:25
rodarvusthough it would be nice to have watch files for all X packages (which currently don't have one)05:25
Keybukdoko: we have our own implementation of debian tracking in MoM05:25
Kamiondoko: that's not likely in the edgy cycle05:25
dokowatch file checking however was delayed05:25
Keybukprobably easier to tweak that than rely on mythical launchpad features05:25
Kamion(Debian imported into Launchpad)05:25
Kamionok, time's marching on05:26
KamionLaserJock would like to deliver a docteam update and has to go soon05:26
LaserJockFrom the Documentation Team:05:27
LaserJockEdgy to this point - Mostly wiki work. CategoryDocumentation wiki pages were moved from wiki.u.c to help.u.c/community (BetterWikiDocs spec) so that all help related documentation is at one URL. Lots of structural and cleanup work is left to do.05:27
LaserJockThis Week - Tomorrow we are having an organizational meeting to chart Edgy docs. Looks like NEW docs might be "Switching from Windows" and "Security Guide".  05:27
LaserJockContinue shaping up Packaging  Guide and Server Guide. Merging information from the Official Ubuntu Book into the Desktop Guides.05:27
LaserJockDone05:27
RiddellLaserJock: what should we start packaging snapshots of the docs?05:27
ograi'd like to note that i find the wiki forwarding pretty painful05:27
Riddells/what/when/05:27
KamionLaserJock: IIRC doko's been working on some kind of "differences from Debian packaging to Ubuntu packaging" document; have you been coordinating on that?05:27
Kamionogra: yes, it's been jarring on me as well05:28
KamionDebuggingProcedures being on help.u.c/community/ was particularly weird05:28
dokoLaserJock: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPackagingChangesSpec05:28
LaserJockRiddell: I haven't really seen much new stuff yet, I'd give use a few weeks, but you might want to ask mdke05:28
LaserJockdoko: ok cool, I'll have to talk to you about that and see what we can put in the Packaging Guide05:28
LaserJockKamion: yes, it was an automatic move (anything with CategoryDocumentation) so some stuff needs to be moved back05:29
LaserJockogra: just need to update your links ;-)05:29
KamionLaserJock: does it continue to be automatic? that is will new CategoryDocumentation pages be moved?05:29
LaserJockKamion: I don't think so, we are creating new wiki pages on help.u.c/community05:30
ograLaserJock, well, sure ... but that wont make the forwarding faster for people who bookmarked the pages ... 05:30
mhzogra: indesd +1 ;)05:30
mhzeed05:30
KamionLaserJock: I'd suggest an announcement on -devel-announce about it if there wasn't already; I only noticed when it happened05:30
LaserJockwe will be checking wiki.u.c. periodicly for moving05:30
Kamionalthough it's possible I missed the announcement05:30
LaserJockKamion: it was announced but the actual move was delayed (I think because of preperationf for Paris, etc.)05:31
Kamionah05:31
Kamionperhaps a reminder would be appropriate then05:32
LaserJockanyway, if you are having problem with the wiki move or want specifc pages moved please let the doc team know05:32
LaserJockwe will try our best to make things as smooth as possible05:32
Kamionok, thanks LaserJock05:33
=== BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Kamionogra: your turn05:33
Kamionogra: what's up with student-control-panel-completion?05:33
ograwell, nothing beyond what i wrote on the wiki05:33
ograi notified mdz that i'D need time to fix it up ... 05:33
=== ziza [n=aziz@chello084112072063.6.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Kamionhmm, I see05:34
ograit went a bit back and forth ... and then knot 1 came ... i hope to find time this weekend to finish the last bit 05:34
pittihi BenC 05:34
Kamionit seems to be in review state at the moment; you know to chase up reviewers for that I assume? I doubt most of them are watching for new review specs now05:34
ograsadly the feature is to important to just strke it05:35
BenCpitti: hey05:35
ograKamion, yes i know ...05:35
=== ogra wonders why its in review ... should be drafting
Kamionup to you to maintain that05:35
ograyup 05:35
Kamionok, I'd really like to see that approved by next week05:36
ograi'll care for it05:36
Kamionogra: "common buildsystem" => common between Edubuntu and LTSP upstream?05:36
ogracommon in the meaning of: we dont use debian/*.install files but automake and the like 05:37
ograso other distros can adopt it 05:37
iwjogra: Just for the avoidance of any doubt, you don't think yet that you've addressed my comments about "Execution of programs in the users session(s)" ?05:37
ograiwj, nope, thats why i was surprised that its in review, i cat remember changing the status05:37
iwjI notice that my brief comment isn't in the wiki page.  Perhaps I should paste that email exchange between you and me and mdz into the wiki ?05:37
ogra*cant05:38
ograiwj, mdz made his comments to the spec via mail and i'll adress them ...05:38
iwjOK.  It's just that it's easy to lose things when the reviewer/approver doesn't have the mail in front of them.05:38
ograiwj, i was planning to ask mdz to review/approve it ... 05:39
Kamionyes, I'd recommend putting that in the wiki just so it doesn't get lost05:39
iwjOK.05:39
ograhe should know what its all about :)05:39
Kamioneven if one has been previously involved, it's possible to forget, and it's useful for informing others05:39
Kamionright, time I think05:39
ograwell, that would make the spec pretty big ...05:40
ograi'll point it our if i ask him for review05:40
ogra*out05:40
iwjogra: put it in a sub-page with a link to it ?05:40
Kamionogra: no harm in that, if the issues have been unaddressed05:40
Kamiononce the issues are addressed, it should be factored into the document05:40
ograok ok, i'll add it ...05:40
Kamionmvo is on holiday; I seem to have been uploading apt for him ;-)05:40
Kamiondoko: anything from you?05:40
dokoKamion, nothing else as in the report05:41
Kamionyour report reminds me, promotions/demotions05:41
dokognat-4.1 in NEW and promotion of python2.5 to main would be nice05:41
Mithrandirdoko: OOo to dapper-proposed-updates or dapper-updates, btw?05:42
dokoKamion: yes, removals of binary packages would be nice as well.05:42
Kamionanastacia output is enough of a nightmare right now that we are not really processing promotions/demotions automatically, so if something's at all urgent, bug somebody in ubuntu-archive05:42
Kamiondoko: likewise, been gradually working my way through, but if there's anything that's urgent, notify us05:42
dokoMithrandir: dapper-proposed-updates first, dapper-updates is too risky. Need to prepare three or four packages05:42
Kamionsome removals have been done05:42
=== mdz [n=mdz@56.Red-81-33-244.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Riddellhi mdz 05:43
dokoKamion: it would be nice to get a status of state of python-packaging, not that urgent05:43
Kamiondoko: promoting python2.5 to main implies some degree of commitment to it for edgy; I assume that the outcome of "Decide if it is a viable option to support python2.5" from the python2.5 spec is therefore "yes"?05:44
dokoKamion: yes, but we can drop it again, followed by "binary-NMU's". 05:45
Kamionwith regard to dapper updates, I think we're still reasonably on-target for an early-August dapper point release, although I need to poke the Soyuz team about status of some of the things we were planning to rely on there05:45
fabbioneKamion: early August?05:45
Kamiondoko: right, hence "some degree of" rather than "absolute"05:45
=== fabbione sighs
Kamionfabbione: ?05:45
fabbioneKamion: if that's the target we need to find somebody to complete the sparc changes for dapper point release.05:46
Kamionfabbione: if that has to be for the next point release, that's life05:46
fabbioneKamion: meh ok05:46
Kamiongiven long-term support, I expect there'll be plenty of room for more than ne05:46
ograKamion, fabbione will likely be in hospital getting his baby ...05:46
Kamionone05:46
Kamionogra: understood, but we can't leave it much later because then we'll be into edgy release05:47
=== BenC volunteers
ograyup05:47
iwjWe're getting seriously behind here ...05:47
Kamionand it is necessary to get something done before shipit for dapper stops05:47
Kamioniwj's right05:47
Kamionpitti: anything from you?05:47
fabbioneKamion: let's take this after the meeting05:47
pittiapart from what's written in the wiki, I just want to mention that I'm looking for a nice name for the crash report daemon; Mithrandir proposed 'apport', and I really like it; ping me if you have a terrific idea :)05:47
Kamionfabbione: yep05:47
iwjpitti: Debian did a 1.0.x ff upload but there doesn't seem to be a coordinated 1.0.8 orig.tar.gz anywhere.05:47
pittimy only blocker so far is the kernel crashdump helper, I'm going to discuss this with BenC, but not in the meeting05:48
Kamionpitti: any idea of edgy langpacks?05:48
pittiiwj: oh, wow05:48
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iwjThey've just done a 1.0.4.orig.tar.gz-based security update.05:48
iwjI was following the list but it was hard to piece the bits together and there was no message of the form "here is the thing which is finally done" except for this URL:05:49
iwjhttp://people.debian.org/~eric/mozilla-firefox/05:49
iwj(Note bad practice of a signed .dsc not uploaded ...)05:49
iwjI haven't done anything else about this.05:50
pittiKamion: I asked carlos several times, he said they are close now05:50
iwjBut I thought I should pass the `info' on.05:50
pittiiwj: I thought they actually used 1.0.7 the last time and just called it 1.0.4 to not break reverse dependencies?05:50
pittiiwj: thank you05:50
iwjSomething like that, yes.05:50
Kamionok, thank you pitti05:50
KamionRiddell: anything from you?05:51
Riddellavahi-daemon now in kubuntu-desktop05:51
Riddellbunch of stuff will shortly need moved to main for gpgsm05:51
Kamionwhat's gpgsm for?05:51
RiddellKamion: s/mime support in kmail05:51
Riddellalso need UVF exception for kopete05:51
Hobbsee(yay, more bugfixes for kopete)05:52
Kamionis the kubuntu zeroconf stuff following the enormous thread on ubuntu-devel?05:52
RiddellKamion: no, it's been planned for a while and specced at the summit, I've not seen the thread on ubuntu-devel05:52
Kamionwe should avoid divergent security policies between Ubuntu and Kubuntu if we can05:52
RiddellI'll take a look at it05:52
RiddellKamion: it's disabled by default, else pitti would kill me05:52
dholbachhihihi05:52
ograRiddell, prepare to spend the afternoon with it if you didnt see the thread yet :P05:53
KamionRiddell: some concerns raised in the thread about the ineffectiveness of offering users a choice between keep-my-machine-secure and do-what-I-want-to-do05:53
Kamionanyway, that's for the mailing list05:53
Kamionthankks Riddell05:54
Kamioniwj: ?05:54
iwjNothing else from me.05:54
=== Whatsisname [n=whatsisn@rrcs-67-52-37-209.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
iwjBut note that I changed the wiki entry quite recently: Chuck will be reporting about Xen.05:54
iwj(Chuck = zul)05:54
Riddellis he bountied for it?05:55
fabbioneRiddell: no he is masochist last i checked :P05:55
BenCthere's a bounty on him, not for him :)05:55
Kamioniwj: with regard to dpkg Breaks deployment, are you aware that Debian's base freeze for etch is RSN?05:55
dholbachyou're so mean :)05:55
Riddellok, so we should still be polite05:55
Kamionso it'll need to squeeze in before thhat05:55
zulfabbione: yep thats me05:55
Kamionzul: we'll grab you at the end, if you're around for that long05:55
iwjKamion: Err, no, I wasn't.05:56
zulim not going anywyere05:56
iwjWhat's the date for that ?05:56
iwjIt would be really nice if we could get it into Debian's dpkg this time round.05:56
Kamioniwj: IIRC 8 August but see debian-devel-announce05:56
iwjI'll go check.  Thanks for the heads-up.05:56
iwjI'll have to spend a bit of weekend thinking about deployment plan for Debian too.05:56
Kamionsympathy (in every sense) on the heat05:56
Kamionheno is on holiday05:56
Kamionfschoep: anything from you?05:57
fschoepBesides the Wiki, I've got two things:05:57
fschoepI'd want some input on: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/WideThemeSwitcher05:57
fschoepFor your information, here's a summary of what we've been doing lately: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/EdgyProposals/Summary_18JULY200605:57
=== isheep [i=isheep@cc1027458-a.groni1.gr.home.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
fschoepThe spec is on Launchpad but I don't own it and Etienne is off for holiday so that takes some more time to get in line I'm afraid.05:57
fschoepThat's all for now.05:58
dholbachshiny shiny05:59
Kamionfschoep: if you need stuff tweaked on Launchpad I believe that anyone in ubuntu-drivers can probably force it05:59
fschoepOK, that's probably the best thing to do now. Once I've got that in line, who should I contact about the contents? It's GNOME related.05:59
Kamionfschoep: dapper-backport> see my comment above about dapper point release timing, if you weren't aware05:59
fschoepKamion: you sent me a Wiki link to the schedule last time.06:00
Kamionright, I forget sometimes :)06:00
Kamion#ubuntu-desktop is probably a reasonable fallback ...06:00
fschoepKamion: is there a list of artwork things you want to get in there or should we make one?06:00
ografschoep, hmm, you are not on -devel ... whats the difference between Lsplash and the gnome splash screen in that spec ? 06:00
Kamionfschoep: I expect to be largely release-monkey plus installer fixes; I doubt I will have time to look into artwork in detail, so if you could prepare something fairly conservative then I'm happy to look over it06:01
fschoepThere is none, it's just that I've been calling it login-splash and suddenly everyone calls it lsplash.06:01
=== dholbach wanted to call the package session-splash :-p
ograah, ok ... was a bit confusing :)06:01
fschoepKamion: will create a list.06:01
dholbachmore confusion :)06:01
Kamionok, thanks fschoep, we need to move on; please somebody desktopish coordinate with fschoep for uploads and stuff06:02
fschoepSorry, I only recently became accustomed with the "Lsplash" term.06:02
Kamionfabbione: anything from you?06:02
ogralets just keep gnome splash :P  users know the term06:02
fabbioneKamion: what's on the wiki, we just got rid of all non-upstream cluster suite patches.06:02
fabbioneKamion: otherwise it's ok...06:02
seb128ogra: no no, or people will assume than dholbach and I are responsive for bugs about it :p06:03
Kamiongiven your imminent awayness, that is definitely good news ;)06:03
ograseb128, i didnt say "GTK boog screen" :P06:03
fabbioneKamion: i am worried about GFS at the moment. there is a regression and seems to be "our" issue06:03
Kamionfabbione: is there likely to be any cluster work that needs to be done after you disappear?06:03
Kamionperhaps you could braindump on somebody06:03
fabbioneKamion: yes, the spec and fix what's there06:03
fabbioneKamion: anyone in particular you would like me to use as ratlab?06:04
Kamion... I'm not sure anyone else has the experience/knowledge to take it from zero06:04
fabbione(needs to have at least 3 machines)06:04
fabbione(same arch is better to start with)06:04
fabbioneany volunteer?06:05
fabbioneor is this going to be like me asking for X help in London?06:05
=== fabbione watches everybody running away screaming
BenCI can help, but I don't have the "same arch"06:05
=== ogra doesnt
Kamionvolunteers -> #ubuntu-devel06:05
Kamionthanks fabbione06:05
Kamiondholbach: ?06:05
dholbachtwo things: it'd have been nice if there had been more people at the HUG DAY yesterday - i know it was short notice, but it was a 2-3 man show. I think this needs more attention, as everybody complains about too many bugs, but not everybody's willing to help people get involved in bug triage. the other thing is: the motu team is looking for people willing to give a short session on packaging related topics (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sc06:05
dholbachhool/Requests) - it'd be nice if you could think about it.06:05
fabbionethanks Kamion 06:05
dholbach(apart from what I have on the wiki.)06:06
ogradholbach, re: hug day ... many people were very busy with CD tests ... 06:06
KamionI have to admit I didn't see the announcement until after the event - must get caught up on mail06:06
dholbachogra: i know06:06
dholbachthere's always a lot to do :)06:06
ogradholbach, i just mean the date was a bit unfortunate 06:06
dholbachand note: i'm not complaining in capital letters :)06:06
dholbachthat's all :)06:07
seb128ogra: I'm sure not everybody was busy with CD testing for the whole day06:07
KamionMOTU tutor volunteers -> #ubuntu-motu06:07
ograseb128, surely not (i was though, and in the spare time i was in -bugs, but still)06:07
Kamionthanks dholbach06:08
Kamionmy turn06:08
Kamionfurther to the wiki, I've started making seed/cdimage changes in preparation for revive-tasksel06:08
Kamionso if you see weird seed commits from me, that's why06:08
Kamionderivative seed merging should get easier rather than harder (especially now that server -> server-ship), but feel free to ask me about stuff06:09
ograwell, as long as Mithrandir doesnt plan a knot2 this week .... :)06:09
KamionI think two weeks' time will be pretty sane06:09
Mithrandirogra: no worries.06:10
ogra:)06:10
Kamionthat will pretty much coincide with when we need to be doing dapper point release testing, mind you06:10
KamionI will try to get ubiquity into dapper-updates in the next week or so, so that we can start doing image testing early06:10
dholbachnice06:10
Kamionnothing else from me06:11
Kamionzul: ?06:11
zulthis week - kernel security updates, xen kernel image, xen userspace fixes,06:11
Kamionzul: how long do you expect the xen-edgy work to take?06:11
Kamionnoting that it's a blocker for some other things, so for planning06:11
zulnext  - apply kernel-package xen infrastructure,xen-kernel testing, xen testing  release kernel-security updates06:11
zulKamion: i expect another of couple of days, the xen kernel image is done but it doesnt boot, userspace is done and works,06:12
Kamiongood answer. :-)06:12
zulright now the xen kernel doesnt use kernel-package so that might be a bit of breakage there, right now its failing at the initramfs level06:13
Kamionok, well sounds better than I expected, so hopefully automated-testing-deployment won't be stalled too much longer06:13
Kamionthanks zul06:13
zuland i was going to upload to universe if it worked06:13
Kamionzul: yep, that's reasonable to start with06:14
KamionBenC: anything from you?06:14
BenCnot really06:14
BenCjust chugging along06:14
KamionBenC: since you're on vacation next week, you+me+Keybuk to sort out the UUID stuff tomorrow would probably be best06:14
BenCsounds like a plan06:15
Keybukyup, I'm good with that06:15
Kamionwith any luck timezones will be favourable so we can present you with a list of bugs when you wake up ;-)06:15
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Keybukit's not so much timezones as heat at the moment that's the problem06:15
Hobbseeicecubes...06:16
KamionKeybuk: early mornings are good for avoiding that06:16
Kamion(never thought I'd hear myself say that)06:16
ogralate nights are !06:16
BenChehe06:16
Kamioninfinity's not here, I forget whether he's on holiday or not06:16
KeybukKamion: *nods* I've found that an early morning and late evening is the best time06:16
RiddellScotland's all cold today06:16
Kamionkwwii: anything you want to add?06:16
KeybukKamion: I think he's still in bed with soyuzitis06:16
kwwiipretty much what I put in the wiki...kinda wanted to know the process for putting stuff on the DIYMarketing page06:16
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KamionI must say it's the first I've heard of that page06:17
kwwii:p06:17
Kamionkwwii: contact previous editors, and/or silbs?06:17
Kamionprobably silbs for preference06:17
kwwiiyeah, I'll send an email and figure it out06:17
ograKamion, its made by silbs and jdub iirc06:17
ograin hoary/breezy time somewhere06:18
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Kamionright, and I think that's it06:18
Keybukis anybody else planning to attend LugRadio Live this weekend?06:18
RiddellKeybuk: me06:18
Riddelland heno I think06:19
Kamionnot me this year, I'm afraid06:19
Riddelland sabdfl too06:19
Kamiondid the no-paste-just-the-wiki thing work this time? I'm not sure, it seemed a bit forced06:19
RiddellI didn't like it06:19
fabbionei don't like how the meeting was06:19
KamionI thought it was worth a try06:20
fschoepRiddell: heno is indeed going06:20
MithrandirI didn't like it either.06:20
iwjI think it slowed things down, in some weird counterintuitive way.06:20
fabbioneworth a try yes06:20
Keybukit worked better with the pastes06:20
Mithrandirsure, worth a try, but it didn't work out well.06:20
Riddellso scrap wiki page and bring back pastes?06:20
Keybukbut if we're going to do the paste, I don't see the point in trying to get the wiki ready days in advance ... I think it should be enough that at the meeting start, it's up to date06:20
Keybukthe wiki page is nice as a replacement for JaneW's SpreadSheetOfDoom06:20
Riddelltrue06:20
KamionKeybuk: yes, I agree, it's good to have for the record but ...06:20
=== pitti thinks we shuold just paste here and forget about the wiki
iwjIt does mean you can read ahead on the wiki page.06:20
Kamionpitti: the wiki is useful as a permanent record, rather than IRC logs06:21
Hobbseepitti: better for people reading the logs of the meeting later, too...06:21
pittidoing things twice and trying to keep the wiki up to date didn't work so well for me TBH06:21
fschoepKamion: indeed06:21
RiddellI fear lots of conflicts if we all add our bits in the 2 minutes before the meeting06:21
iwjconflicts> That's very true.06:21
fabbionei think we can just paste here06:21
fschoepAren't there edit locks on the Wiki?06:21
ograRiddell, well iwj and me usually have them there :)06:21
Kamionthere is no need to keep it up to date really; you can always add stuff next week06:21
fabbioneand update the wiki within 1 hour of the meeting06:21
seb128I liked the previous meeting way better too06:21
ogra++06:21
fabbioneso we keep both irc meeting as before06:21
fabbioneand records on the wiki06:22
pittiKamion: but we already have activity mails (or, rather, we should have)06:22
iwjI find the wiki very useful but we should relax and say to edit it an hour or two in advance.06:22
Kamion*cough*06:22
fabbionebut it needs to be mandatory to fill up the wiki within the hour06:22
fschoepOne problem this time was we strayed a bit off the main path a bit too long I think.06:22
Kamionpitti: actually they're not really the same06:22
Kamionpitti: my activity reports are (when I send them) a lot more verbose, and stuff is often duplicated across days06:22
Keybukreally?  I just write my paste by reading my activity reports for the past week06:22
iwjKeybuk: Yes, but it's quite condensed.06:22
MithrandirI liked the "fill out the wiki 24 hours a day in advance", I must admit.06:22
Kamionwhat iwj said06:23
KeybukMithrandir: I really don't ... it makes the wiki text almost meaningless06:23
ograMithrandir, that akes then one day outdated06:23
Keybuk"here's where I was up to over 24 hours ago"06:23
pittiKeybuk: you too? :)06:23
fabbioneKeybuk: ++06:23
Keybukgenerally my TODO is only 24-hours in advance anyway06:23
Kamioniwj: I think the reason it slowed things down was that there wasn't so clear a boundary between people's turns06:23
iwjKamion: Yes.06:23
Keybukso by the time we get to the meeting, I've actually done everything in my todo list anyway06:23
Kamionand we basically need to go through everyone anyway06:23
iwjPerhaps paste a  =========== FSmith =========== ?06:23
kwwiiok...time for me to cook dinner for the family...guess we are done here?06:24
Kamionwould work but doesn't seem a huge win over paste-report06:24
iwjI'm tempted to write a turn-taking robot which hassles people when we go slow, too :-).06:24
iwjKamion: Right.06:24
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Kamionright, I think we're done, unless there are any other announcements06:24
iwjBut it would shut up the people who think the wiki is a duplication :-).06:24
Riddellany volunteers to fix ruby on powerpc?06:24
Riddellfabbione: you were previous uploader06:25
fschoepkwwii, dholbach: meet in ubuntu-devel in thirty minutes / one hour?06:25
zulheh..06:25
pittihm, somehow the pasting feels more like an RL meeting06:25
fabbioneRiddell: i was forced to do the merge. kthxbye06:25
iwjpitti: I think that might be part of it, yes.06:25
pittithanks everyone06:25
dholbachfschoep: fine - i'll do a break now myself06:25
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fabbioneRiddell: there is also davis.ubuntu.com that you can use06:25
KamionRiddell: I'll have a look and see what I can manage06:25
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Kamionthanks all, adjourned06:25
kwwiifschoep: I might have to delay that...I'll send you an email later tonight06:25
fabbionecya everybody06:25
Riddellfabbione: I have a powerpc, it compiles fine for me locally just not in the buildds06:25
fschoepkwwii: OK, see you soon.06:26
kwwiifschoep: see you :-)06:26
fabbioneRiddell: than you need to grab infinity and check with him.06:26
fschoepEnjoy dinner everyone/06:26
fabbioneRiddell: are you using the exact same chroot to test?06:26
fabbioneRiddell: same kernel?06:26
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Riddellfabbione: most likely not06:26
fabbioneRiddell: afaik the buildd at the DC are all 64bit kernel06:26
iwjThanks everyone.06:26
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fabbioneRiddell: so that *might* make a diff06:26
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fabbioneRiddell: pushing it back to me will just make things worst, since i would have to do the same investigation with a possible 2 weeks delay06:27
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 Jul 19:00 UTC: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 20:00 UTC: Technical Board | 02 Aug 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
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cbx33ogra, your rsyncer script didn't work?08:16
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stgraber@schedule Zurich09:11
UbugtuSchedule for Europe/Zurich: 21 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team09:11
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