[01:02] <zul> @schedule montreal
[01:02] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 20 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 16:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu
[04:20] <fabbione> @schedule rome
[04:20] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 20 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu
[05:13] <anibal> @schedule melbourne
[05:13] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Melbourne: 21 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 Jul 05:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 02 Aug 06:00: Technical Board | 03 Aug 06:00: Edubuntu
[12:58] <zul> @schedule montreal
[12:58] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 20 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 16:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu
[12:59] <rodarvus> @schedule Sao_Paulo
[12:59] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Sao_Paulo: 20 Jul 12:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 16:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 09:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 20:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 17:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 17:00: Edubuntu
[02:54] <pitti> hello
[02:55] <dholbach> pitti: isn't the meeting in 2h?
[02:55] <dholbach> @schedule berlin
[02:55] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 20 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu
[02:55] <dholbach> but hello pitti :)
[02:56] <pitti> dholbach: oh dear, 15:00 *UTC*
[02:56] <dholbach> :-)
[02:56] <dholbach> that's why i go for lunch and a walk now
[02:56] <dholbach> ;)
[02:57] <Seveas> dholbach, try @now
[02:57] <Seveas> @now berlin
[02:57] <pitti> cu then :)
[02:57] <Ubugtu> Current time in Europe/Berlin: July 20 2006, 14:57:16 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Development Team in 2 hours 2 minutes
[02:57] <dholbach> Seveas: nice
[03:54] <jjesse> @schedule detroit
[03:54] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Detroit: 20 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 16:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu
[03:57] <irvin> @now manila
[03:57] <Ubugtu> Current time in Asia/Manila: July 20 2006, 21:57:05 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Development Team in 1 hour 2 minutes
[04:15] <Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
[04:15] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 21 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 22 Jul 05:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 22:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 02 Aug 06:00: Technical Board | 03 Aug 06:00: Edubuntu
[04:16] <zul> @schedule montreal
[04:16] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 20 Jul 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 15:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 08:00: Edubuntu | 27 Jul 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 16:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu
[04:32] <GNAM> @schedule rome
[04:32] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 20 Jul 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 21 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu
[04:32] <GNAM> wow
[04:54] <fschoep> Hello everyone.
[04:55] <dholbach> fschoep: i'm just working on the ubuntu-artwork split - once i'm done, i'll send a mail to ubuntu-art and we can get cracking :)
[04:55] <dholbach> fschoep: sorry for not getting back to you earlier - if you have a bit of time, we can chat a bit after the meeting
[04:56] <fschoep> dholbach: no problem, I'm sure we'll get everything worked out right soon enough
[04:56] <dholbach> super
[04:58] <pitti> hello again
[04:58] <dholbach> :-)
[04:58] <Kamion> afternoon all
[04:58] <jjesse_> morning Kamion :)
[04:59] <mhz> hi all
[04:59] <rodarvus> hello all
[04:59] <fabbione> hello
[05:00] <ogra> meep
[05:00] <seb128> good afternoon
[05:00] <kwwii> howdy
[05:00] <fschoep> Hi Ken, how are you doing?
[05:00] <kwwii> fschoep: good, things are slowly getting better
[05:01] <kwwii> fschoep: we should talk after the meeting
[05:01] <fschoep> kwwii: no problem
[05:02] <fschoep> dholbach, kwwii: can I get something like half an hour after the meeting to eat dinner and then discuss things?
[05:02] <dholbach> fschoep: sure
[05:02] <kwwii> yepp
[05:02] <Riddell> no mdz today?
[05:02] <DSG-01> hello
[05:02] <ogra> he melted i spain :)
[05:02] <Leonox> hi
[05:02] <ogra> *in
[05:02] <Kamion> mdz said he probably wouldn't make it
[05:02] <fschoep> Who's in charge now?
[05:02] <Kamion> I'll chair - just finding the list of people to ping elsewhere
[05:03] <fabbione> Kamion: in the wiki?
[05:03] <dholbach> mvo has his last holiday today
[05:03] <dholbach> dunno about benc
[05:03] <Kamion> fabbione: yes, but need to compare with /names here
[05:03] <ogra> dholbach, his last *ever* ?
[05:03] <ogra> dholbach, so we'll never have a broken apt again ? 
[05:03] <fabbione> Kamion: it has both actually
[05:03] <Mithrandir> ogra: yeah, no more slacking for mvo.
[05:03] <dholbach> ogra: we'll see
[05:03] <ogra> :)
[05:04] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: says the guy who delayed a milestone release due to "too much wine"
[05:04] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: it was delayed already. :-P
[05:04] <Kamion> is heno expected to be away at the moment?
[05:04] <fschoep> Yes, he is on holiday.
[05:04] <Kamion> ah, thanks
[05:05] <pitti> darn, I try connecting to another freenode server, brb
[05:06] <Kamion> ok, we should get started
[05:06] <Kamion> has everyone read the wiki page? not everyone has filled in their information on it
[05:06] <fschoep> Kamion: I added myself even though I wasn't on there, is that OK?
[05:06] <Kamion> fschoep: yes, that's fine - we should probably add you to the template in fact
[05:07] <Kamion> BenC: could you quickly dump your info into the wiki page, for the record?
[05:07] <BenC> yeah
[05:07] <kwwii> my name is not on that list
[05:07] <Kamion> kwwii: same as fschoep, if you want to dump your done/todo in there for the record, that would be good
[05:07] <kwwii> will do
[05:07] <Kamion> ok, in the meantime, we'll go from the bottom up
[05:08] <Kamion> I suggest we try not doing the paste thing this week, in the hope that people have read the wiki page
[05:08] <iwj> I think next week we should have an announcement in advance, giving a deadline for completing the report, and encouraging the addition of extra people, etc.  I'll write one up.
[05:08] <fabbione> pitti is having network problems
[05:08] <Kamion> iwj: in fact there was an announcement on warthogs@, but that's too private; should be with the meeting announcement on -devel-announce
[05:08] <zul> Kamion: ditto
[05:08] <iwj> Kamion: Oh, warthogs again.  It seems I never read warthogs on Wednesdays :-).
[05:09] <Kamion> anyway, we should still go through everyone to make sure people have a chance to be quizzed and to say anything they have to say
[05:09] <iwj> Right.
[05:09] <Kamion> Mithrandir: you're first; anything of particular note this week?
[05:09] <fabbione> sfllaw: any specific reason for keep moving these announcements in non public places?
[05:09] <Kamion> or anything you want to grab people for next week?
[05:09] <Mithrandir> I'd like to apologise for the week-long freeze.  I thought we were more ready than we were.
[05:09] <Mithrandir> hopefully, it won't happen again.
[05:10] <ogra> it was necessary
[05:10] <Mithrandir> apart from that, I don't have anything in particular.
[05:10] <Kamion> I think we'll be better off next time. Most of it was because the installer just wasn't there yet.
[05:10] <ogra> we now have a stable base :)
[05:10] <Kamion> ogra: not for much longer; feature development awaits ...
[05:10] <Mithrandir> yeah, and that was a bad call on my part.  I should have waited a bit.  But, done is done.
[05:10] <ogra> Kamion, sure, but you have something to compare to ... to find regressions/errors next milestone ...
[05:10] <Kamion> Mithrandir: looks like you have a fair bit of coordination with Adam next week, but that's nothing new I guess
[05:11] <Kamion> Mithrandir: also, congratulations on Knot-1
[05:11] <Mithrandir> Kamion: same goes to you, for fixing ubiquity and d-i.
[05:11] <Mithrandir> also, thanks.
[05:11] <Kamion> I expect we'll need a bit more testing of derivatives next time round
[05:11] <Kamion> the first milestone is generally quite rough and ready
[05:11] <Kamion> Mithrandir: we should decide on Knot-2 timescales
[05:12] <ogra> edubuntu is fine though
[05:12] <Kamion> I suggest leaving a clear two weeks from now
[05:12] <Kamion> just because otherwise the release team get nothing else done
[05:12] <Kamion> does that sound reasonable?
[05:12] <Mithrandir> I'll be gone on vacation + wedding + honeymoon from next friday, JFYI.
[05:12] <Mithrandir> and won't be back until the sprint in London
[05:12] <dholbach> wow
[05:12] <Mithrandir> uh, not London
[05:12] <Mithrandir> Wiesbaden
[05:12] <rodarvus> :)
[05:12] <Kamion> ah, noted; infinity/mdz/I will deal with releases, then
[05:13] <Kamion> Mithrandir: please dump current sane-installer-keyboard status on me when you leave
[05:13] <Mithrandir> Kamion: willdo
[05:13] <Kamion> ok, thank you
[05:13] <Kamion> sfllaw: anything from you this week?
[05:13] <Kamion> (if you're here ...)
[05:14] <Mithrandir> he's not, I think.
[05:14] <Kamion> doesn't look like it
[05:14] <Kamion> seb128: anything from you?
[05:14] <seb128> nop
[05:14] <Hobbsee> looks to be not here.   [01:14]  [Whois]  sfllaw has been idle for 10 hours, 41 minutes and 20 seconds.
[05:15] <Kamion> seb128: how is GNOME 2.15 looking upstream?
[05:15] <seb128> pretty good, already GNOME 2.15.90 next week (2.16 beta 1)
[05:15] <seb128> so they start freeze, etc
[05:15] <fabbione> Kamion: sorry pitti can't get here on freenode properly. I can forward any request to/from him
[05:15] <Kamion> feels very early, but of course our cycle is very late this time
[05:15] <highvoltage> Mithrandir: congrats
[05:15] <ogra> fabbione, he's here
[05:15] <seb128> right, we only packaged one devel version this cycle
[05:16] <pitti> fabbione, Kamion: I'm here now, though lagged
[05:16] <Kamion> so at 2.15.90, GNOME will be in API/ABI freeze, is that right?
[05:16] <dholbach> so from now it gets better and better ;)
[05:16] <seb128> Kamion: API, ABI, UI frozen
[05:16] <Kamion> handy for our feature development; I see a few shiny new features in GTK
[05:16] <seb128> and components list too
[05:17] <Kamion> all right
[05:17] <Kamion> Keybuk: 
[05:17] <seb128> yeah, GTK 2.10 is great, especially the new printing framework (but only epiphany uses it atm I think)
[05:17] <Keybuk> Kamion: not much to report, Debian (for the most part) seem happy with the new PTS mails
[05:17] <Kamion> it was little things like linkbutton that I noticed
[05:17] <pitti> seb128: will the other apps be converted to use the new printing api, too?
[05:18] <seb128> yeah, lot of new cool things too (linkbutton, recently used, etc)
[05:18] <iwj> Keybuk: Do we have an official contact from Debian yet ?
[05:18] <Keybuk> I'll be doing the UUID stuff and teardown now Knot Freeze is over
[05:18] <Kamion> Keybuk: we need to get together early next week or tomorrow or thereabouts to make sure the partman changes for libata are right
[05:18] <Keybuk> iwj: in which sense?
[05:18] <Keybuk> Kamion: yup, agree
[05:18] <seb128> pitti: not much this cycle, they have the same issue as we have ... cycles are short and manpower is limited
[05:18] <pitti> seb128: how urgently do you need the new hal-cvs-head-on-crack-plus-policy-kit-on-top-of-it?
[05:18] <Kamion> I forgot to note that in my to-do
[05:18] <iwj> I remember mdz complaining that there wasn't anyone to have an official `Debian' opinion about this kind of thing.
[05:18] <iwj> I mean, about cooperation with Ubuntu, PTS mails, etc.
[05:18] <Keybuk> iwj: there are vague movements with the DCT and Utnubu
[05:19] <Keybuk> buxy has been my contact for the PTS stuff
[05:19] <Kamion> does anyone in Debian really want to place themselves in front of the firing squad on that, though? :-)
[05:19] <seb128> pitti: no idea, apparently gnome-power-manager requires it to sleep and suspend and nothing else really requires it this cycle ...
[05:19] <ogra> pitti, as soon as we can ... else we'll miss many g-p-m bugs 
[05:19] <Keybuk> and I've found madduck to be useful to "find the right person" and me a general middle-man
[05:19] <pitti> iwj: hard to get such an opinion, short of doing an official vote...
[05:19] <seb128> pitti: we might want look are rolling back gnome-power-manager code if that's an issue
[05:19] <iwj> Kamion: Well, I've got a thick skin and would volunteer except for err slight conflict of interest :-).
[05:19] <Kamion> iwj: yes, I think most of us here are similarly problematic
[05:19] <iwj> pitti: DPL should delegate.  But a `no' from Keybuk seems to be the answer.
[05:20] <ogra> seb128, pitti, that whould be possible, but a lot of work, since exactly the code parts we need are vanished (or split up)
[05:20] <Keybuk> aye, was just going to say, we could contact the DPL or DPL-of-Vice and ask for a delegate
[05:20] <Keybuk> but then they'd probably ask for one from us in return
[05:20] <seb128> ogra: we can stay to 2.14 for edgy ...
[05:20] <Keybuk> and I'd be scared it'd be me
[05:20] <Kamion> Keybuk: well volunteered
[05:20] <ogra> seb128, yup, thats what i thought
[05:20] <iwj> Keybuk: I'd volunteer too if you don't want to.
[05:20] <Riddell> pitti, seb128: having a decision on HAL would be handy for me working on kubuntu-power-management
[05:20] <pitti> ogra: TBH I'd rather let the dust settle down upstream and let them do a release first, but I will at least dive into it and look at the new stuff
[05:20] <iwj> But I suspect you might do a better job.
[05:20] <iwj> We could discuss it informally with Steve Mac if we make it to the Debian UK BBQ ?
[05:21] <ogra> pitti, then lets keep 2.14, i'll look into regressions
[05:21] <seb128> ogra, pitti: in any case we should open discussion with upstream on the topic and the concerns we have
[05:21] <ogra> seb128, yeah, to avoid such stuff in the future at least
[05:21] <Kamion> ok, lots of conversations going on at once here, perhaps the out-of-sequence ones could move to #ubuntu-devel
[05:21] <seb128> ogra: will you contact upstream to let him know that PolicyKit is an issue?
[05:21] <ogra> seb128, yup
[05:21] <Kamion> rodarvus: anything from you?
[05:21] <rodarvus> not much, besides what can be read "between the lines" on my status report
[05:22] <seb128> ogra: that's going to be an issue for GNOME anyway, 2.16 can't depends on policykit if that's CVS code
[05:22] <iwj> lots of conversations> It's good to get people talking to each other but yes, perhaps elsewhere while the meeting goes on ?
[05:22] <pitti> Riddell: right, but I absolutely do not want to say yes to it until I understand fully what they are doing
[05:22] <Keybuk> rodarvus: I'd like ssh access to the OLPC hardware at some point to do a general health check
[05:22] <Kamion> (really ugly) Hack to automagically check updates to packages in Debian and Ubuntu, to easy the task of comparing changes in the future (do we have some "official" tool to achieve this?)
[05:22] <Kamion> rodarvus: isn't that very closely related to what MOM does?
[05:22] <Keybuk> ie. a look around the hardware for anything that might be a problem for us, or any tricks we can do
[05:22] <rodarvus> Keybuk: sure, I'll try to handle that this week or next
[05:22] <Riddell> pitti: I don't care either way, just so I know what I have to develop against
[05:22] <rodarvus> Kamion: I suppose so, yes
[05:22] <Keybuk> rodarvus: echo subscribe debian PACKAGE | mom@ubuntu.com
[05:22] <Kamion> if it doesn't quite do the right job, I'd suggest talking to Keybuk for what you need
[05:22] <Keybuk> rodarvus: ^ once elmo turns it on
[05:23] <rodarvus> I just made a quick hack to be able to check this "on my own", after the usual mom runs end
[05:23] <Kamion> rodarvus: do you expect any changes required outside the X subsystem for X 7.1?
[05:23] <Keybuk> though that might not be what you want, talk to me!
[05:23] <rodarvus> I will, thanks for the heads up! :)
[05:23] <Mithrandir> rodarvus: are you trying to check if Debian and we are in sync or whether we're in sync with upstream?
[05:23] <rodarvus> Kamion: no, not really
[05:23] <Kamion> rodarvus: there's also some noise about escalated support on certain X bugs; I'll chat with you about that afterwards if mdz hasn't done so already
[05:23] <rodarvus> Mithrandir: both things, actually
[05:24] <rodarvus> Kamion: he hasn't, not yet
[05:24] <Kamion> the xresprobe blank-on-install bug and an i810 bug
[05:24] <Mithrandir> rodarvus: for the upstream bit, there's watch files.
[05:24] <rodarvus> Mithrandir: indeed
[05:24] <rodarvus> (but it was just four lines on the script to check upstream too :) )
[05:25] <doko> rodarvus: we had a spec to follow upstream versions, have to ask lifeless when it gets deployed. tracking debian versions will be done when debian is imported into launchpad (according to cprov)
[05:25] <rodarvus> though it would be nice to have watch files for all X packages (which currently don't have one)
[05:25] <Keybuk> doko: we have our own implementation of debian tracking in MoM
[05:25] <Kamion> doko: that's not likely in the edgy cycle
[05:25] <doko> watch file checking however was delayed
[05:25] <Keybuk> probably easier to tweak that than rely on mythical launchpad features
[05:25] <Kamion> (Debian imported into Launchpad)
[05:26] <Kamion> ok, time's marching on
[05:26] <Kamion> LaserJock would like to deliver a docteam update and has to go soon
[05:27] <LaserJock> From the Documentation Team:
[05:27] <LaserJock> Edgy to this point - Mostly wiki work. CategoryDocumentation wiki pages were moved from wiki.u.c to help.u.c/community (BetterWikiDocs spec) so that all help related documentation is at one URL. Lots of structural and cleanup work is left to do.
[05:27] <LaserJock> This Week - Tomorrow we are having an organizational meeting to chart Edgy docs. Looks like NEW docs might be "Switching from Windows" and "Security Guide".  
[05:27] <LaserJock> Continue shaping up Packaging  Guide and Server Guide. Merging information from the Official Ubuntu Book into the Desktop Guides.
[05:27] <LaserJock> Done
[05:27] <Riddell> LaserJock: what should we start packaging snapshots of the docs?
[05:27] <ogra> i'd like to note that i find the wiki forwarding pretty painful
[05:27] <Riddell> s/what/when/
[05:27] <Kamion> LaserJock: IIRC doko's been working on some kind of "differences from Debian packaging to Ubuntu packaging" document; have you been coordinating on that?
[05:28] <Kamion> ogra: yes, it's been jarring on me as well
[05:28] <Kamion> DebuggingProcedures being on help.u.c/community/ was particularly weird
[05:28] <doko> LaserJock: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPackagingChangesSpec
[05:28] <LaserJock> Riddell: I haven't really seen much new stuff yet, I'd give use a few weeks, but you might want to ask mdke
[05:28] <LaserJock> doko: ok cool, I'll have to talk to you about that and see what we can put in the Packaging Guide
[05:29] <LaserJock> Kamion: yes, it was an automatic move (anything with CategoryDocumentation) so some stuff needs to be moved back
[05:29] <LaserJock> ogra: just need to update your links ;-)
[05:29] <Kamion> LaserJock: does it continue to be automatic? that is will new CategoryDocumentation pages be moved?
[05:30] <LaserJock> Kamion: I don't think so, we are creating new wiki pages on help.u.c/community
[05:30] <ogra> LaserJock, well, sure ... but that wont make the forwarding faster for people who bookmarked the pages ... 
[05:30] <mhz> ogra: indesd +1 ;)
[05:30] <mhz> eed
[05:30] <Kamion> LaserJock: I'd suggest an announcement on -devel-announce about it if there wasn't already; I only noticed when it happened
[05:30] <LaserJock> we will be checking wiki.u.c. periodicly for moving
[05:30] <Kamion> although it's possible I missed the announcement
[05:31] <LaserJock> Kamion: it was announced but the actual move was delayed (I think because of preperationf for Paris, etc.)
[05:31] <Kamion> ah
[05:32] <Kamion> perhaps a reminder would be appropriate then
[05:32] <LaserJock> anyway, if you are having problem with the wiki move or want specifc pages moved please let the doc team know
[05:32] <LaserJock> we will try our best to make things as smooth as possible
[05:33] <Kamion> ok, thanks LaserJock
[05:33] <Kamion> ogra: your turn
[05:33] <Kamion> ogra: what's up with student-control-panel-completion?
[05:33] <ogra> well, nothing beyond what i wrote on the wiki
[05:33] <ogra> i notified mdz that i'D need time to fix it up ... 
[05:34] <Kamion> hmm, I see
[05:34] <ogra> it went a bit back and forth ... and then knot 1 came ... i hope to find time this weekend to finish the last bit 
[05:34] <pitti> hi BenC 
[05:34] <Kamion> it seems to be in review state at the moment; you know to chase up reviewers for that I assume? I doubt most of them are watching for new review specs now
[05:35] <ogra> sadly the feature is to important to just strke it
[05:35] <BenC> pitti: hey
[05:35] <ogra> Kamion, yes i know ...
[05:35] <Kamion> up to you to maintain that
[05:35] <ogra> yup 
[05:36] <Kamion> ok, I'd really like to see that approved by next week
[05:36] <ogra> i'll care for it
[05:36] <Kamion> ogra: "common buildsystem" => common between Edubuntu and LTSP upstream?
[05:37] <ogra> common in the meaning of: we dont use debian/*.install files but automake and the like 
[05:37] <ogra> so other distros can adopt it 
[05:37] <iwj> ogra: Just for the avoidance of any doubt, you don't think yet that you've addressed my comments about "Execution of programs in the users session(s)" ?
[05:37] <ogra> iwj, nope, thats why i was surprised that its in review, i cat remember changing the status
[05:37] <iwj> I notice that my brief comment isn't in the wiki page.  Perhaps I should paste that email exchange between you and me and mdz into the wiki ?
[05:38] <ogra> *cant
[05:38] <ogra> iwj, mdz made his comments to the spec via mail and i'll adress them ...
[05:38] <iwj> OK.  It's just that it's easy to lose things when the reviewer/approver doesn't have the mail in front of them.
[05:39] <ogra> iwj, i was planning to ask mdz to review/approve it ... 
[05:39] <Kamion> yes, I'd recommend putting that in the wiki just so it doesn't get lost
[05:39] <iwj> OK.
[05:39] <ogra> he should know what its all about :)
[05:39] <Kamion> even if one has been previously involved, it's possible to forget, and it's useful for informing others
[05:39] <Kamion> right, time I think
[05:40] <ogra> well, that would make the spec pretty big ...
[05:40] <ogra> i'll point it our if i ask him for review
[05:40] <ogra> *out
[05:40] <iwj> ogra: put it in a sub-page with a link to it ?
[05:40] <Kamion> ogra: no harm in that, if the issues have been unaddressed
[05:40] <Kamion> once the issues are addressed, it should be factored into the document
[05:40] <ogra> ok ok, i'll add it ...
[05:40] <Kamion> mvo is on holiday; I seem to have been uploading apt for him ;-)
[05:40] <Kamion> doko: anything from you?
[05:41] <doko> Kamion, nothing else as in the report
[05:41] <Kamion> your report reminds me, promotions/demotions
[05:41] <doko> gnat-4.1 in NEW and promotion of python2.5 to main would be nice
[05:42] <Mithrandir> doko: OOo to dapper-proposed-updates or dapper-updates, btw?
[05:42] <doko> Kamion: yes, removals of binary packages would be nice as well.
[05:42] <Kamion> anastacia output is enough of a nightmare right now that we are not really processing promotions/demotions automatically, so if something's at all urgent, bug somebody in ubuntu-archive
[05:42] <Kamion> doko: likewise, been gradually working my way through, but if there's anything that's urgent, notify us
[05:42] <doko> Mithrandir: dapper-proposed-updates first, dapper-updates is too risky. Need to prepare three or four packages
[05:42] <Kamion> some removals have been done
[05:43] <Riddell> hi mdz 
[05:43] <doko> Kamion: it would be nice to get a status of state of python-packaging, not that urgent
[05:44] <Kamion> doko: promoting python2.5 to main implies some degree of commitment to it for edgy; I assume that the outcome of "Decide if it is a viable option to support python2.5" from the python2.5 spec is therefore "yes"?
[05:45] <doko> Kamion: yes, but we can drop it again, followed by "binary-NMU's". 
[05:45] <Kamion> with regard to dapper updates, I think we're still reasonably on-target for an early-August dapper point release, although I need to poke the Soyuz team about status of some of the things we were planning to rely on there
[05:45] <fabbione> Kamion: early August?
[05:45] <Kamion> doko: right, hence "some degree of" rather than "absolute"
[05:45] <Kamion> fabbione: ?
[05:46] <fabbione> Kamion: if that's the target we need to find somebody to complete the sparc changes for dapper point release.
[05:46] <Kamion> fabbione: if that has to be for the next point release, that's life
[05:46] <fabbione> Kamion: meh ok
[05:46] <Kamion> given long-term support, I expect there'll be plenty of room for more than ne
[05:46] <ogra> Kamion, fabbione will likely be in hospital getting his baby ...
[05:46] <Kamion> one
[05:47] <Kamion> ogra: understood, but we can't leave it much later because then we'll be into edgy release
[05:47] <ogra> yup
[05:47] <iwj> We're getting seriously behind here ...
[05:47] <Kamion> and it is necessary to get something done before shipit for dapper stops
[05:47] <Kamion> iwj's right
[05:47] <Kamion> pitti: anything from you?
[05:47] <fabbione> Kamion: let's take this after the meeting
[05:47] <pitti> apart from what's written in the wiki, I just want to mention that I'm looking for a nice name for the crash report daemon; Mithrandir proposed 'apport', and I really like it; ping me if you have a terrific idea :)
[05:47] <Kamion> fabbione: yep
[05:47] <iwj> pitti: Debian did a 1.0.x ff upload but there doesn't seem to be a coordinated 1.0.8 orig.tar.gz anywhere.
[05:48] <pitti> my only blocker so far is the kernel crashdump helper, I'm going to discuss this with BenC, but not in the meeting
[05:48] <Kamion> pitti: any idea of edgy langpacks?
[05:48] <pitti> iwj: oh, wow
[05:48] <iwj> They've just done a 1.0.4.orig.tar.gz-based security update.
[05:49] <iwj> I was following the list but it was hard to piece the bits together and there was no message of the form "here is the thing which is finally done" except for this URL:
[05:49] <iwj> http://people.debian.org/~eric/mozilla-firefox/
[05:49] <iwj> (Note bad practice of a signed .dsc not uploaded ...)
[05:50] <iwj> I haven't done anything else about this.
[05:50] <pitti> Kamion: I asked carlos several times, he said they are close now
[05:50] <iwj> But I thought I should pass the `info' on.
[05:50] <pitti> iwj: I thought they actually used 1.0.7 the last time and just called it 1.0.4 to not break reverse dependencies?
[05:50] <pitti> iwj: thank you
[05:50] <iwj> Something like that, yes.
[05:50] <Kamion> ok, thank you pitti
[05:51] <Kamion> Riddell: anything from you?
[05:51] <Riddell> avahi-daemon now in kubuntu-desktop
[05:51] <Riddell> bunch of stuff will shortly need moved to main for gpgsm
[05:51] <Kamion> what's gpgsm for?
[05:51] <Riddell> Kamion: s/mime support in kmail
[05:51] <Riddell> also need UVF exception for kopete
[05:52] <Hobbsee> (yay, more bugfixes for kopete)
[05:52] <Kamion> is the kubuntu zeroconf stuff following the enormous thread on ubuntu-devel?
[05:52] <Riddell> Kamion: no, it's been planned for a while and specced at the summit, I've not seen the thread on ubuntu-devel
[05:52] <Kamion> we should avoid divergent security policies between Ubuntu and Kubuntu if we can
[05:52] <Riddell> I'll take a look at it
[05:52] <Riddell> Kamion: it's disabled by default, else pitti would kill me
[05:52] <dholbach> hihihi
[05:53] <ogra> Riddell, prepare to spend the afternoon with it if you didnt see the thread yet :P
[05:53] <Kamion> Riddell: some concerns raised in the thread about the ineffectiveness of offering users a choice between keep-my-machine-secure and do-what-I-want-to-do
[05:53] <Kamion> anyway, that's for the mailing list
[05:54] <Kamion> thankks Riddell
[05:54] <Kamion> iwj: ?
[05:54] <iwj> Nothing else from me.
[05:54] <iwj> But note that I changed the wiki entry quite recently: Chuck will be reporting about Xen.
[05:54] <iwj> (Chuck = zul)
[05:55] <Riddell> is he bountied for it?
[05:55] <fabbione> Riddell: no he is masochist last i checked :P
[05:55] <BenC> there's a bounty on him, not for him :)
[05:55] <Kamion> iwj: with regard to dpkg Breaks deployment, are you aware that Debian's base freeze for etch is RSN?
[05:55] <dholbach> you're so mean :)
[05:55] <Riddell> ok, so we should still be polite
[05:55] <Kamion> so it'll need to squeeze in before thhat
[05:55] <zul> fabbione: yep thats me
[05:55] <Kamion> zul: we'll grab you at the end, if you're around for that long
[05:56] <iwj> Kamion: Err, no, I wasn't.
[05:56] <zul> im not going anywyere
[05:56] <iwj> What's the date for that ?
[05:56] <iwj> It would be really nice if we could get it into Debian's dpkg this time round.
[05:56] <Kamion> iwj: IIRC 8 August but see debian-devel-announce
[05:56] <iwj> I'll go check.  Thanks for the heads-up.
[05:56] <iwj> I'll have to spend a bit of weekend thinking about deployment plan for Debian too.
[05:56] <Kamion> sympathy (in every sense) on the heat
[05:56] <Kamion> heno is on holiday
[05:57] <Kamion> fschoep: anything from you?
[05:57] <fschoep> Besides the Wiki, I've got two things:
[05:57] <fschoep> I'd want some input on: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/WideThemeSwitcher
[05:57] <fschoep> For your information, here's a summary of what we've been doing lately: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/EdgyProposals/Summary_18JULY2006
[05:57] <fschoep> The spec is on Launchpad but I don't own it and Etienne is off for holiday so that takes some more time to get in line I'm afraid.
[05:58] <fschoep> That's all for now.
[05:59] <dholbach> shiny shiny
[05:59] <Kamion> fschoep: if you need stuff tweaked on Launchpad I believe that anyone in ubuntu-drivers can probably force it
[05:59] <fschoep> OK, that's probably the best thing to do now. Once I've got that in line, who should I contact about the contents? It's GNOME related.
[05:59] <Kamion> fschoep: dapper-backport> see my comment above about dapper point release timing, if you weren't aware
[06:00] <fschoep> Kamion: you sent me a Wiki link to the schedule last time.
[06:00] <Kamion> right, I forget sometimes :)
[06:00] <Kamion> #ubuntu-desktop is probably a reasonable fallback ...
[06:00] <fschoep> Kamion: is there a list of artwork things you want to get in there or should we make one?
[06:00] <ogra> fschoep, hmm, you are not on -devel ... whats the difference between Lsplash and the gnome splash screen in that spec ? 
[06:01] <Kamion> fschoep: I expect to be largely release-monkey plus installer fixes; I doubt I will have time to look into artwork in detail, so if you could prepare something fairly conservative then I'm happy to look over it
[06:01] <fschoep> There is none, it's just that I've been calling it login-splash and suddenly everyone calls it lsplash.
[06:01] <ogra> ah, ok ... was a bit confusing :)
[06:01] <fschoep> Kamion: will create a list.
[06:01] <dholbach> more confusion :)
[06:02] <Kamion> ok, thanks fschoep, we need to move on; please somebody desktopish coordinate with fschoep for uploads and stuff
[06:02] <fschoep> Sorry, I only recently became accustomed with the "Lsplash" term.
[06:02] <Kamion> fabbione: anything from you?
[06:02] <ogra> lets just keep gnome splash :P  users know the term
[06:02] <fabbione> Kamion: what's on the wiki, we just got rid of all non-upstream cluster suite patches.
[06:02] <fabbione> Kamion: otherwise it's ok...
[06:03] <seb128> ogra: no no, or people will assume than dholbach and I are responsive for bugs about it :p
[06:03] <Kamion> given your imminent awayness, that is definitely good news ;)
[06:03] <ogra> seb128, i didnt say "GTK boog screen" :P
[06:03] <fabbione> Kamion: i am worried about GFS at the moment. there is a regression and seems to be "our" issue
[06:03] <Kamion> fabbione: is there likely to be any cluster work that needs to be done after you disappear?
[06:03] <Kamion> perhaps you could braindump on somebody
[06:03] <fabbione> Kamion: yes, the spec and fix what's there
[06:04] <fabbione> Kamion: anyone in particular you would like me to use as ratlab?
[06:04] <Kamion> ... I'm not sure anyone else has the experience/knowledge to take it from zero
[06:04] <fabbione> (needs to have at least 3 machines)
[06:04] <fabbione> (same arch is better to start with)
[06:05] <fabbione> any volunteer?
[06:05] <fabbione> or is this going to be like me asking for X help in London?
[06:05] <BenC> I can help, but I don't have the "same arch"
[06:05] <Kamion> volunteers -> #ubuntu-devel
[06:05] <Kamion> thanks fabbione
[06:05] <Kamion> dholbach: ?
[06:05] <dholbach> two things: it'd have been nice if there had been more people at the HUG DAY yesterday - i know it was short notice, but it was a 2-3 man show. I think this needs more attention, as everybody complains about too many bugs, but not everybody's willing to help people get involved in bug triage. the other thing is: the motu team is looking for people willing to give a short session on packaging related topics (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sc
[06:05] <dholbach> hool/Requests) - it'd be nice if you could think about it.
[06:05] <fabbione> thanks Kamion 
[06:06] <dholbach> (apart from what I have on the wiki.)
[06:06] <ogra> dholbach, re: hug day ... many people were very busy with CD tests ... 
[06:06] <Kamion> I have to admit I didn't see the announcement until after the event - must get caught up on mail
[06:06] <dholbach> ogra: i know
[06:06] <dholbach> there's always a lot to do :)
[06:06] <ogra> dholbach, i just mean the date was a bit unfortunate 
[06:06] <dholbach> and note: i'm not complaining in capital letters :)
[06:07] <dholbach> that's all :)
[06:07] <seb128> ogra: I'm sure not everybody was busy with CD testing for the whole day
[06:07] <Kamion> MOTU tutor volunteers -> #ubuntu-motu
[06:07] <ogra> seb128, surely not (i was though, and in the spare time i was in -bugs, but still)
[06:08] <Kamion> thanks dholbach
[06:08] <Kamion> my turn
[06:08] <Kamion> further to the wiki, I've started making seed/cdimage changes in preparation for revive-tasksel
[06:08] <Kamion> so if you see weird seed commits from me, that's why
[06:09] <Kamion> derivative seed merging should get easier rather than harder (especially now that server -> server-ship), but feel free to ask me about stuff
[06:09] <ogra> well, as long as Mithrandir doesnt plan a knot2 this week .... :)
[06:09] <Kamion> I think two weeks' time will be pretty sane
[06:10] <Mithrandir> ogra: no worries.
[06:10] <ogra> :)
[06:10] <Kamion> that will pretty much coincide with when we need to be doing dapper point release testing, mind you
[06:10] <Kamion> I will try to get ubiquity into dapper-updates in the next week or so, so that we can start doing image testing early
[06:10] <dholbach> nice
[06:11] <Kamion> nothing else from me
[06:11] <Kamion> zul: ?
[06:11] <zul> this week - kernel security updates, xen kernel image, xen userspace fixes,
[06:11] <Kamion> zul: how long do you expect the xen-edgy work to take?
[06:11] <Kamion> noting that it's a blocker for some other things, so for planning
[06:11] <zul> next  - apply kernel-package xen infrastructure,xen-kernel testing, xen testing  release kernel-security updates
[06:12] <zul> Kamion: i expect another of couple of days, the xen kernel image is done but it doesnt boot, userspace is done and works,
[06:12] <Kamion> good answer. :-)
[06:13] <zul> right now the xen kernel doesnt use kernel-package so that might be a bit of breakage there, right now its failing at the initramfs level
[06:13] <Kamion> ok, well sounds better than I expected, so hopefully automated-testing-deployment won't be stalled too much longer
[06:13] <Kamion> thanks zul
[06:13] <zul> and i was going to upload to universe if it worked
[06:14] <Kamion> zul: yep, that's reasonable to start with
[06:14] <Kamion> BenC: anything from you?
[06:14] <BenC> not really
[06:14] <BenC> just chugging along
[06:14] <Kamion> BenC: since you're on vacation next week, you+me+Keybuk to sort out the UUID stuff tomorrow would probably be best
[06:15] <BenC> sounds like a plan
[06:15] <Keybuk> yup, I'm good with that
[06:15] <Kamion> with any luck timezones will be favourable so we can present you with a list of bugs when you wake up ;-)
[06:15] <Keybuk> it's not so much timezones as heat at the moment that's the problem
[06:16] <Hobbsee> icecubes...
[06:16] <Kamion> Keybuk: early mornings are good for avoiding that
[06:16] <Kamion> (never thought I'd hear myself say that)
[06:16] <ogra> late nights are !
[06:16] <BenC> hehe
[06:16] <Kamion> infinity's not here, I forget whether he's on holiday or not
[06:16] <Keybuk> Kamion: *nods* I've found that an early morning and late evening is the best time
[06:16] <Riddell> Scotland's all cold today
[06:16] <Kamion> kwwii: anything you want to add?
[06:16] <Keybuk> Kamion: I think he's still in bed with soyuzitis
[06:16] <kwwii> pretty much what I put in the wiki...kinda wanted to know the process for putting stuff on the DIYMarketing page
[06:17] <Kamion> I must say it's the first I've heard of that page
[06:17] <kwwii> :p
[06:17] <Kamion> kwwii: contact previous editors, and/or silbs?
[06:17] <Kamion> probably silbs for preference
[06:17] <kwwii> yeah, I'll send an email and figure it out
[06:17] <ogra> Kamion, its made by silbs and jdub iirc
[06:18] <ogra> in hoary/breezy time somewhere
[06:18] <Kamion> right, and I think that's it
[06:18] <Keybuk> is anybody else planning to attend LugRadio Live this weekend?
[06:18] <Riddell> Keybuk: me
[06:19] <Riddell> and heno I think
[06:19] <Kamion> not me this year, I'm afraid
[06:19] <Riddell> and sabdfl too
[06:19] <Kamion> did the no-paste-just-the-wiki thing work this time? I'm not sure, it seemed a bit forced
[06:19] <Riddell> I didn't like it
[06:19] <fabbione> i don't like how the meeting was
[06:20] <Kamion> I thought it was worth a try
[06:20] <fschoep> Riddell: heno is indeed going
[06:20] <Mithrandir> I didn't like it either.
[06:20] <iwj> I think it slowed things down, in some weird counterintuitive way.
[06:20] <fabbione> worth a try yes
[06:20] <Keybuk> it worked better with the pastes
[06:20] <Mithrandir> sure, worth a try, but it didn't work out well.
[06:20] <Riddell> so scrap wiki page and bring back pastes?
[06:20] <Keybuk> but if we're going to do the paste, I don't see the point in trying to get the wiki ready days in advance ... I think it should be enough that at the meeting start, it's up to date
[06:20] <Keybuk> the wiki page is nice as a replacement for JaneW's SpreadSheetOfDoom
[06:20] <Riddell> true
[06:20] <Kamion> Keybuk: yes, I agree, it's good to have for the record but ...
[06:20] <iwj> It does mean you can read ahead on the wiki page.
[06:21] <Kamion> pitti: the wiki is useful as a permanent record, rather than IRC logs
[06:21] <Hobbsee> pitti: better for people reading the logs of the meeting later, too...
[06:21] <pitti> doing things twice and trying to keep the wiki up to date didn't work so well for me TBH
[06:21] <fschoep> Kamion: indeed
[06:21] <Riddell> I fear lots of conflicts if we all add our bits in the 2 minutes before the meeting
[06:21] <iwj> conflicts> That's very true.
[06:21] <fabbione> i think we can just paste here
[06:21] <fschoep> Aren't there edit locks on the Wiki?
[06:21] <ogra> Riddell, well iwj and me usually have them there :)
[06:21] <Kamion> there is no need to keep it up to date really; you can always add stuff next week
[06:21] <fabbione> and update the wiki within 1 hour of the meeting
[06:21] <seb128> I liked the previous meeting way better too
[06:21] <ogra> ++
[06:21] <fabbione> so we keep both irc meeting as before
[06:22] <fabbione> and records on the wiki
[06:22] <pitti> Kamion: but we already have activity mails (or, rather, we should have)
[06:22] <iwj> I find the wiki very useful but we should relax and say to edit it an hour or two in advance.
[06:22] <Kamion> *cough*
[06:22] <fabbione> but it needs to be mandatory to fill up the wiki within the hour
[06:22] <fschoep> One problem this time was we strayed a bit off the main path a bit too long I think.
[06:22] <Kamion> pitti: actually they're not really the same
[06:22] <Kamion> pitti: my activity reports are (when I send them) a lot more verbose, and stuff is often duplicated across days
[06:22] <Keybuk> really?  I just write my paste by reading my activity reports for the past week
[06:22] <iwj> Keybuk: Yes, but it's quite condensed.
[06:22] <Mithrandir> I liked the "fill out the wiki 24 hours a day in advance", I must admit.
[06:23] <Kamion> what iwj said
[06:23] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: I really don't ... it makes the wiki text almost meaningless
[06:23] <ogra> Mithrandir, that akes then one day outdated
[06:23] <Keybuk> "here's where I was up to over 24 hours ago"
[06:23] <pitti> Keybuk: you too? :)
[06:23] <fabbione> Keybuk: ++
[06:23] <Keybuk> generally my TODO is only 24-hours in advance anyway
[06:23] <Kamion> iwj: I think the reason it slowed things down was that there wasn't so clear a boundary between people's turns
[06:23] <iwj> Kamion: Yes.
[06:23] <Keybuk> so by the time we get to the meeting, I've actually done everything in my todo list anyway
[06:23] <Kamion> and we basically need to go through everyone anyway
[06:23] <iwj> Perhaps paste a  [06:24] <kwwii> ok...time for me to cook dinner for the family...guess we are done here?
[06:24] <Kamion> would work but doesn't seem a huge win over paste-report
[06:24] <iwj> I'm tempted to write a turn-taking robot which hassles people when we go slow, too :-).
[06:24] <iwj> Kamion: Right.
[06:24] <Kamion> right, I think we're done, unless there are any other announcements
[06:24] <iwj> But it would shut up the people who think the wiki is a duplication :-).
[06:24] <Riddell> any volunteers to fix ruby on powerpc?
[06:25] <Riddell> fabbione: you were previous uploader
[06:25] <fschoep> kwwii, dholbach: meet in ubuntu-devel in thirty minutes / one hour?
[06:25] <zul> heh..
[06:25] <pitti> hm, somehow the pasting feels more like an RL meeting
[06:25] <fabbione> Riddell: i was forced to do the merge. kthxbye
[06:25] <iwj> pitti: I think that might be part of it, yes.
[06:25] <pitti> thanks everyone
[06:25] <dholbach> fschoep: fine - i'll do a break now myself
[06:25] <fabbione> Riddell: there is also davis.ubuntu.com that you can use
[06:25] <Kamion> Riddell: I'll have a look and see what I can manage
[06:25] <Kamion> thanks all, adjourned
[06:25] <kwwii> fschoep: I might have to delay that...I'll send you an email later tonight
[06:25] <fabbione> cya everybody
[06:25] <Riddell> fabbione: I have a powerpc, it compiles fine for me locally just not in the buildds
[06:26] <fschoep> kwwii: OK, see you soon.
[06:26] <kwwii> fschoep: see you :-)
[06:26] <fabbione> Riddell: than you need to grab infinity and check with him.
[06:26] <fschoep> Enjoy dinner everyone/
[06:26] <fabbione> Riddell: are you using the exact same chroot to test?
[06:26] <fabbione> Riddell: same kernel?
[06:26] <Riddell> fabbione: most likely not
[06:26] <fabbione> Riddell: afaik the buildd at the DC are all 64bit kernel
[06:26] <iwj> Thanks everyone.
[06:26] <fabbione> Riddell: so that *might* make a diff
[06:27] <fabbione> Riddell: pushing it back to me will just make things worst, since i would have to do the same investigation with a possible 2 weeks delay
[08:16] <cbx33> ogra, your rsyncer script didn't work?
[09:11] <stgraber> @schedule Zurich
[09:11] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 21 Jul 21:00: Ubuntu Marketing Team | 26 Jul 14:00: Edubuntu | 28 Jul 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 01 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team