[12:13] and rulz [12:14] well, it's just much easier (for me anyway) [12:14] I can get things done faster than if I was trying to do Fortran (the other language I know) ;-) [12:21] yeah, print 'Hello world' [12:33] Amaranth, ping === Xymor [i=enforcer@201.19.35.47] has joined #edubuntu === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #edubuntu === ogra__ [n=ogra@p5089C912.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #edubuntu [12:59] ogra: pong [12:59] Amaranth, the daemon isnt backgrounding itself ... [01:00] oh whoops [01:00] which makes the initscript hang ... which in turn makes the package uninstallable because the postinst never finishes :) [01:00] having some power cord issues right now [01:01] also you need to communicate via the system bus, not the session bus (including a services file in /etc/dbus-1/system.d/) [01:02] i won't have a computer in about two hours [01:02] oh [01:02] power cord on my laptop died [01:03] no replacement ? [01:03] no [01:03] thats evil [01:03] i got two batteries instead [01:04] brb === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #edubuntu === RichEd-1 [n=richard@dsl-146-132-138.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #edubuntu [01:08] ogra: is it me, or we dont have actually a knot1 for edubuntu? [01:09] http://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/edgy/knot-1/ [01:09] oh, yeah but has it been anounced in ML? [01:09] http://ftp.heanet.ie/pub/ubuntu-cdimage/edubuntu/releases/edgy/knot-1/ [01:09] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-July/000164.html [01:10] yes [01:10] hehehe === mhz slaps himself then [01:12] hmm, ogra but not in edubuntu ML, I mean [01:12] ah right ... === mhz is not in ubuntu-devel [01:12] ogra: shall i make a quickie for Edubuntu ML? === Rondom [n=Rondom@p54AEEEF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #edubuntu [01:12] its devel-announce ... it gets about 5 messages a month [01:12] heheh [01:13] sure, do one ... link to the official announce :) [01:13] sure === PeregrineSky [n=chuck@c-24-11-80-244.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #edubuntu [01:13] and one in spanish too [01:13] :) === mhz hates to do stuff twice [01:14] hi all, what does it take to upgrade from ubuntu dapper to edubuntu dapper? === Amaranth [n=amaranth@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #edubuntu [01:14] what do you want ? a workstation or a server ? [01:14] i want a workstation [01:14] stupid gnome-power-manager [01:14] for the workstation install a sudo apt-get install edubuntu-desktop suffices [01:15] ok [01:15] charge light on the laptop wasn't on because the battery was 100% and g-p-m always said it was on battery [01:15] Amaranth, what did it do ? [01:15] edgy ? [01:15] dapper [01:15] oh [01:15] it just stuck saying it was on battery [01:15] soon as the update is finished i will install the edubuntu-desktop [01:15] rebooted into windows, saw that it was working fine, rebooted back to dapper [01:15] i thik i saw a bug about it recently ... [01:16] Amaranth, it is a HAL bug, apparently [01:16] i have to unplug and replug the power once a day to make it show the right icon [01:16] Burgwork, there is a patch for g-p-m upstream ... [01:17] its a communication issue with hal [01:17] ah, hal, the product described by the kernel devs as "an unmaintained pile of shit" [01:17] i was _freaking out_ [01:17] its very well maintained ... [01:17] Burgwork: davidz would disagree [01:18] Amaranth, he made a joke about it recently [01:18] see planet.gnome [01:21] ogra: sent === mhz unslaps himself this time [01:23] hey all [01:23] hey jsgotangco [01:24] Amaranth, i found five issues i'd like to see adressed in willowng ... [01:24] * daemon needs to background itself [01:24] * frontend needs to connect to the systembus not the session bus [01:24] (needs services file in /etc/dbus-1/system.d/) [01:24] * the GUI should have a UID 0 check [01:24] * gksudo should be added to the .desktop file [01:24] * we should ask AliasVegas if she has an idea for an icon [01:25] apart from that its already a great tool :) [01:25] UID 0 check? [01:25] yes, "do i run as root?" [01:26] if it isn't running as root it can't talk to the daemon (once the service file is in place) [01:26] see student control panel ... it has a function for that ... (could be written cleaner though) [01:26] although right now when it can't talk to the daemon it assumes it isn't running... [01:26] if it communicates with the system bus ? [01:26] yeah [01:26] i can restrict access to just the root user [01:27] yeah, that would suffice [01:27] drop that point then :) === bimberi [n=bimberi@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.bimberi] has joined #edubuntu [01:28] now i need to look into the standard for putting service files in the right place [01:28] but first, food [01:29] the packaging is very nice btw [01:30] thanks [01:34] edubuntu-devel-es y ubuntu-cl MLs ... sent to all === mhz is now known as mhz_off [01:36] wow mhz_off sent the annoucement! [01:37] lol === mhz [n=mhz@moinmoin/fan/mhz] has joined #edubuntu [01:48] man experiencing how good a tobacco tastes in the morning should be one of the experiences humans should not even miss even once [01:49] jsgotangco, smoking will kill you [01:49] my grandfather died at 90 and was a chain smoker [01:50] see, smoking killed him :) [01:50] I hear living will kill you, too. [01:50] well complications from diabetes killed him as well [01:53] EULA's can kill you too [01:54] esp. if they catch you [01:55] jsgotangco: and shakira's belly button can also give you a heart attack and so, kill you === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #edubuntu === bddebian [n=bdefrees@71.224.172.103] has joined #edubuntu [02:24] Howdy [02:25] Amaranth, iptables -t nat -A OUTPUT -p TCP --dport 80 -j DNAT --to-destination 127.0.0.1:8008 [02:26] thats the rule you need [02:26] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/5198238.stm [02:26] ogra: cool [02:26] how do i remove a rule from iptables? [02:26] Amaranth, replacing -A with -D will switch it off [02:26] ok [02:26] how do i check to see if it's on? === mhz is now known as mhz_food [02:26] iptables -L -t nat |grep 8008 [02:27] there are surely more elegant ways ;) === Burgundavia [n=corey@ubuntu/member/burgundavia] has joined #edubuntu [02:30] heh, that's good enough for me [02:30] i found some daemon creation code too [02:30] 192.168.100.203 - - [21/Jul/2006 02:25:15] "GET /newsticker/meldung/75703 HTTP/1.1" 400 - [02:30] 192.168.100.203 - - [21/Jul/2006 02:29:36] code 400, message bad url /newsticker/meldung/75703 [02:30] 192.168.100.203 - - [21/Jul/2006 02:29:36] "GET /newsticker/meldung/75703 HTTP/1.1" 400 - [02:30] 192.168.100.203 - - [21/Jul/2006 02:29:40] code 400, message bad url / [02:30] hmm [02:30] why does it cut off the domain ? [02:30] that's how it works [02:30] you have a seperate Host header [02:31] ah [02:31] well, my browser is not happy [02:31] what url? [02:31] www.heise.de [02:31] Message: bad url /. [02:32] Error code 400. [02:32] in fact i get that with any url [02:32] all URLs are failing now? [02:33] yep [02:34] *boggle* [02:34] what site did you go to before that started? [02:34] none ... [02:34] odd... [02:34] oh, is this the first time you did the transparent proxy stuff? [02:35] OperationalError: attempt to write a readonly database [02:35] aha [02:35] i ran it first with sudo [02:35] oops [02:35] well, the initscript will do the same :) [02:36] yeah, that's fine [02:36] but if you run it without sudo (without installing it) then run it without it can't open training.db [02:36] sure [02:38] but even if i run it with sudo it doesnt work ... [02:38] hmm [02:38] ok, transparent proxy no workie [02:38] well ... [02:38] it cant ... indeed [02:39] i'll have to look into that [02:39] nope [02:39] its my rule [02:39] iptables -t nat -A OUTPUT -p TCP --dport 80 -j DNAT --to-destination 127.0.0.1:8008 [02:39] that means redirect *all* [02:39] oh, so it goes into a fun loop [02:40] packages with destination port 80 to 8008 [02:40] that the kernel must detect and break [02:40] yeah [02:41] probably need a second rule to make that not apply to willowng [02:41] except it shows up in ps as 'python' [02:41] the initscript has written a id file (if it works) [02:41] *pid [02:42] i don't know what all that is for anyway :P [02:42] huh ? [02:42] the pid file [02:42] like where does it go, for example [02:43] to /var/run [02:43] it will be called willowng.pid and contain the pid :) [02:44] and iptables has a --pid-owner [02:44] so we likely can exclude it from the rule [02:56] well, my daemonize code doesn't work :P [02:59] ah, it _only_ works if you run it as root [02:59] makes sense [03:00] it also created a training.db in / :P [03:00] heh === rodarvus returns from the hospital [03:01] ogra: shouldn't you be in bed by now? :) [03:01] well ... [03:01] you know ... [03:01] :) [03:01] hmm, I think we covered that a few hours ago in -motu ;-) [03:01] heh [03:02] rodarvus: what happened? check up? [03:04] jsgotangco: unfortunately, not really - she is feeling a rather heavy pain on the left region of her belly === Lord_Athur [n=alejandr@pc-10-33-214-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #edubuntu [03:04] daemon code now works good === LaserJock is now known as Laser_away [03:04] (she went through a surgery in this region, last month) [03:04] checking to see how deskbar changes it's name in ps [03:05] but it seems its only "gas" (does this word makes sense in english?) [03:05] yep [03:05] crap, it's a bit of C code [03:10] score [03:11] i've got some linux-specific but pure python code to do it [03:12] rodarvus: pretty bad gas inside her i'd say [03:13] she has C code inside her? [03:13] ouch. [03:13] oh, bad lag === Rondom_ [n=Rondom@p54AEEC45.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #edubuntu [03:23] ogra: working on the dbus service file, then this should be ready to go === u01p2109 [n=arturs@84.237.187.73] has joined #edubuntu [03:26] cool [03:26] i'll bzr pull if i get up === u01p2109 [n=arturs@84.237.187.73] has joined #edubuntu [03:52] ogra: http://dev.realistanew.com/releases/willowng/0.2/deb-src/ === arkan0x [n=arkan0x@pc-6-76-214-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #edubuntu === Lord_Athur [n=alejandr@pc-10-33-214-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #edubuntu === mhz_food is now known as mhz [04:16] bye === Lord_Athur [n=alejandr@pc-10-33-214-201.cm.vtr.net] has left #edubuntu ["Leaving"] === sbalneav [n=sbalneav@S0106000b6a5631f9.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #edubuntu [04:55] Evening all [05:08] Hello sbalneav [05:13] Quiet in here this evening. [05:13] .....too quiet. :) === sbalneav slaps a fresh battery in his phaser. [05:24] hey [05:31] heh === lguerra [n=lguerra@200.119.34.36] has joined #edubuntu [05:47] Hi [05:49] cool, lguerra is in town [05:49] Chile and Colombia in #edubutnu [05:49] edubuntu [05:50] \o/ [05:50] .:\o/:. [05:50] are those stink lines? === u01p2109 [n=arturs@84.237.187.73] has left #edubuntu [] [05:52] Amaranth: stink? [05:52] ohhh [05:52] smell [05:52] the dots? [05:52] arkan0x: rofl! [05:52] Amaranth: i hope not [05:53] esp. because I pictured they were cheerleaders [05:53] hehe [05:53] jejeje [05:53] *\o/* is a cheerleader [05:55] indeed [05:56] bimberi: nice, real nice [05:56] :) [05:56] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoticon [05:56] bimberi: it is a pity we can't see them cheering with their legs too :D [05:57] hehe === Laser_away is now known as LaserJock === sankarshan [n=sankarsh@59.92.169.72] has joined #edubuntu === Rondom__ [n=Rondom@p54AEE06D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #edubuntu === pygi [n=pygi@83-131-226-178.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #edubuntu === th1a|X60s [n=th1a@pool-64-223-58-40.prov.east.verizon.net] has joined #edubuntu === LaserJock is now known as Laser_away === th1a|X60s [n=th1a@pool-64-223-58-40.prov.east.verizon.net] has joined #edubuntu [07:20] *\o/* [07:20] | [07:20] crap [07:20] *\o/* [07:20] | [07:20] bleh [07:20] *\o/* [07:20] | [07:20] /\ [07:20] close enough [07:21] / \ [07:22] s('_^)-b [07:23] lol [07:23] now what did nixternal say - "that is one ooogly face" === linuxboy [n=anon@yoda.frogfoot.net] has joined #edubuntu === linuxboy [n=anon@yoda.frogfoot.net] has left #edubuntu [] === bimberi_ [n=bimberi@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.bimberi] has joined #edubuntu === HedgeMage peeks in [07:59] wow, ogra works long hours === pygi tickles HedgeMage [08:01] heya [08:01] pygi: join #drupal one of the trac devs is there talking about mod_python and other stuff === Fujitsu [n=Fujitsu@c58-107-168-5.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #edubuntu [08:08] highvoltage: ping [08:08] HedgeMage: trac as in 'trac, the Moin based platform'? [08:09] trac as in some web svn thingy pygi likes === mhz loves trac too [08:10] HedgeMage: its actually more of a bug tracker [08:10] ahh :) [08:10] highvoltage: a couple of friends on #edubuntu-es had a meeting a couple of hours ago and we want to translate the www.edubuntu.org site. [08:12] highvoltage: so, we would like to have -if possible- the whole current site version installed at one of our devel servers (Chile) for a couple of weeks, so we can edit drupal there and get it back to you or anyone else once is ready [08:13] pygi: i once wrote a Trac howto for Ubuntu [08:13] highvoltage: so, is it possible we canhave that? [08:13] mhz: ah :) [08:14] if Trac used bzr, we would get some people crazy aroud here :D [08:14] and Moin would kick more too [08:14] mhz: it can use it (plugin) but the plugin itself i bad :P === mhz is a Moin fan [08:15] pygi: why is it bad? [08:15] not supporting more then 700 revisions, being incomplete, bla, bla [08:15] ooh [08:15] very bad [08:15] highvoltage: well, i gotta hit the bed [08:16] highvoltage: see ya [08:16] good night you all [08:16] nn mhz [08:16] and hope we see some faces in #ubuntu-meeting in a few hours === mhz [n=mhz@moinmoin/fan/mhz] has left #edubuntu ["Leaving"] [08:25] when is the edubuntu meeting? [08:27] Burgundavia: 12:00 UTC [08:27] ugh, 5am [08:27] not happening [08:30] who created that graphical rsync script and does anyone have a copy for me> [08:30] ? [08:35] cbx33 and no, sorry [08:35] Burgundavia: it is cbx33 [08:35] hmm [08:35] eek, i missed mhz [08:36] highvoltage: all the best with your new venture! (i scanned planet.ubuntu.com recently) === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #edubuntu [08:42] bimberi_: thank you :) [08:43] :) [08:44] highvoltage: sad to see that two schools got broken into, however [08:50] Burgundavia: it seems that it's much more than two schools :( [08:50] Burgundavia: although, only two of them were tuxlab schools. [08:50] highvoltage: you serious? are we talking a coordinated effort or just lost of random jerks? [08:50] one of them doesn't have insuranceeither :/ [08:51] Burgundavia: it seems that it was at leat 20 schools in poor areas, seems like random jerks. this happened over the school holidays [08:51] desperate people do desperate things [08:52] some people feel that it must have been an inside job in one of the tuxlab schools to a degree, because they only stole the most valueble stuff that aren't obvously valueble [08:52] what did they take? [08:59] server, switches, and some workstations [09:00] but it looks suspicious, because usually when a break in occurs it's just a few workstations that are stolen, no one ever touches a switch [09:00] then again, it might have been some random troublemaker who knew a bit about what the stuff is worth. [09:01] random computer knowledge is more widespread that people might realize === RichEd waves to all - mornin ! [09:14] morning RichEd [09:14] morning RichEd [09:15] greetz pygi & Burgundavia :) [09:16] 'lo highvoltage - scanning back to see what prompted the school theft discussion [09:16] RichEd: if you have any comments on case studies for edubuntu, I am going to be working on one tomorrow night [09:16] RichEd: I read out it [09:16] read about it, rather === pygi thinks he should attend doc team meeting today [09:19] pygi: that might be good [09:21] Burgundavia: i'm willing to help with the case study ... can you bang me a 1st draft and I will comment ? [09:21] RichEd: I don't even have enough for that, sadly [09:22] What specific topic / project is it for ? [09:22] tuxlabs [09:24] That's a broad topic :) Any specifics ... what is the angle / theme / pitch, who is it directed towards, where will it be published/circulated and finally what does it hope to achieve ?? [09:24] how and why tuxlabs choose edubuntu [09:24] what they needed from an os and how edubuntu delivered that [09:25] the backside will be a section on what edubuntu is, in general terms (designed to be generic across all case studies) [09:25] great ... digesting ... thinking ... mmmmmm [09:26] okay how about this for an angle ... (was chatting to JaneW about this last night): [09:27] hypothesis: due to the limited resources (time, money, people) available in the education sector, if schools were able to standardise on a stable underlying o/s [09:27] which was free [09:28] and well intended in its long term aims [09:28] and well supported by the following communities: [09:28] - developers [09:28] - kids [09:28] - teachers [09:28] - manufacuturers [09:29] then (1) it would free up people & resources to concentrate on educational content + applications [09:29] yep, that was the angle I was going for [09:29] (2) it would allow for standard training across schools [09:29] harp on the savings time, etc. and you will win [09:29] accross countries [09:30] and allow for a common base platform (in al metahphorical senses as well as an o/s sense) [09:30] I want this initial case study to be just a discussion of tuxlabs [09:30] for the building of the educational experience. [09:30] Burgundavia: Fine ... noted [09:30] what you are painting is a broader stroke, better for the backside (the generic stuff) than the specific story of how edubuntu worked in this case [09:31] But if we take the above as a theme, while you (with help) write this specific one ... [09:31] We can build on the message as we move forward. because NB: [09:32] yep [09:32] when I send my case study, I will lay out general aims/etc, in my email [09:32] We can't be seen to be arrogant, or taking over ... however well intentioned ... [09:32] oh, I am perfectly ok with being arrogant.. ;) [09:33] But if we (as edubuntu) can lay a platform for OTHER people, our end-installers & end-users, like the tuXlabs people to make thier own statements / quotes along the lines of our theme ... then it will be a more gentle & subtle way of winning over people [09:34] yep [09:35] Burgundavia: i appreciate the witty comment (when you re good, you are allowed to be arrogant) ... but we need to win people over without appearing to have an agenda, or making them feel threatened. [09:35] :D [09:36] If we praised the skills of another Linux community, but said, look guys, we really think your skills are prefectly suited to build _xyz_ application, which will be a killer app that will allow linux to really penetrate ... [09:36] (perfectly) not prefectly [09:36] highvoltage: have any thoughts been put into edubuntu grid stuff? [09:37] I think a good short term goal would be to win over the makers of educational apps, either open source or not [09:37] So we'll share all of the info about our platform ... and we'll work together to build a wrap around educational environment ... bells & whistles ... wadda wadda wadda [09:38] (you get my point) [09:38] or convert other educational linux teams from writing o/s and steer them in the educational app direction ? [09:38] both approaches would be best ... nop ? [09:39] anything and everything [09:39] ideally, it would be nice for the skolelinux people and us to work more together [09:40] exactly: join together into a larger team, work out who is best at what, focus into smaller teams, match teams against the holistc educational requirements, and work & win together :) [09:41] achieve joint success & joint recognition [09:42] nd futher the underlying goals ... a better, cheaper education for all, spitting out more rounded student, better able to cope with the global economy [09:42] and <- nd [09:43] (and who understand that they can start or run a small busines, using IT for standard office & financial req. without having to pay for any licences [09:44] instead of the curent de facto view that a licence, with annual renewal fees, is a neccesary cost of business. === RichEd stops preaching [09:44] heh [09:46] Burgundavia: richard.edubuntu@gmail.com <- feel free to send any ideas or comments or drafts here ... [09:46] sure [09:47] I presume you will ask highvoltage to do some quotes as a tuXlab admin ? [09:47] absolutely [09:47] I also have access to Will van de Leij (he's here locally with me in Cape Town) for input / revision [09:48] Deadline ? for "Distribution" ?? [09:48] none [09:48] ahhh the best kind ;) [09:49] SABDFL has asked me to put together a focussed educational message we can end to govt. enquiries ... web site & .pdf [09:50] So we can work this together ... your case study will be a good component [09:50] send <- end [09:50] perfect [09:50] exactly what this is written for === jsgotangco brain hurts on the scrollback [09:51] So you initiate the first email in the conversation, and I'll add comments from there, and draft a framework on how to hang it all together ... [09:51] We'll need to poke the value buttons of: [09:51] 1) end-users & admins (PULL) [09:52] 2) decision makers & funders (PUSH) [09:52] 3) govt. people tasked with FOSS conversion directives & goals (JOB SECURITY & RE-ELECTION) [09:52] that sort of thing. Make sense ? [09:53] selling linux is what I do everyday, so this is all I do all day [09:54] Burgundavia: explain more ... in spirit or in livelihood or both ... give me some real life context please ? [09:54] excellent you make a good salesman for userful then [09:54] I work for userful, selling our product, DiscoverStation [09:54] RichEd: he works for userful [09:54] except our stuff is closed source === RichEd looks for the echo echo ... [09:55] well, mostly [09:55] url ? [09:55] www.userful.com [09:56] :) thanks ... never forget to try the obvious [09:56] he is actually sleeping with the enemy [09:56] or something [09:56] jsgotangco: !! [09:56] yes, I sell FC based computers [09:56] jsgotangco: so did mata hari ... it can be useful :) [09:56] but then we dont do multiseat [09:56] I wish edubuntu did [09:57] would be a good roadmap [09:57] translations please: FC ? and by multi-seat you mean 1 CPU x 4 seats with kbd, mouse & display ? [09:57] would be interesting to mix fat clients, thin clients and multiseat stuff in a grid [09:57] fedora core and yes [09:58] like HP's 441 [09:58] funny you should mention that ... i pushed 441's when i was with HP ... === drbollokovski [n=drbollok@87-194-41-227.bethere.co.uk] has joined #edubuntu [09:58] the multiseat package in ubuntu was written for just that hardware [09:59] hi folks [09:59] but the new CEO culled the Emerging Market Solutions division ... [09:59] hello [09:59] userful's multiseat stuff is the most stable and flexible stuff available, and it still isn't that stable [09:59]