[12:13] <mhz> and rulz
[12:14] <LaserJock> well, it's just much easier (for me anyway)
[12:14] <LaserJock> I can get things done faster than if I was trying to do Fortran (the other language I know) ;-)
[12:21] <mhz> yeah, print 'Hello world'
[12:33] <ogra> Amaranth, ping
[12:59] <Amaranth> ogra: pong
[12:59] <ogra> Amaranth, the daemon isnt backgrounding itself ...
[01:00] <Amaranth> oh whoops
[01:00] <ogra> which makes the initscript hang ... which in turn makes the package uninstallable because the postinst never finishes :)
[01:00] <Amaranth> having some power cord issues right now
[01:01] <ogra> also you need to communicate via the system bus, not the session bus (including a services file in /etc/dbus-1/system.d/)
[01:02] <Amaranth> i won't have a computer in about two hours
[01:02] <ogra> oh
[01:02] <Amaranth> power cord on my laptop died
[01:03] <ogra> no replacement ?
[01:03] <Amaranth> no
[01:03] <ogra> thats evil
[01:03] <Amaranth> i got two batteries instead
[01:04] <Amaranth> brb
[01:08] <mhz> ogra: is it me, or we dont have actually a knot1 for edubuntu?
[01:09] <ogra> http://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/edgy/knot-1/
[01:09] <mhz> oh, yeah but has it been anounced in ML?
[01:09] <ogra> http://ftp.heanet.ie/pub/ubuntu-cdimage/edubuntu/releases/edgy/knot-1/
[01:09] <ogra> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2006-July/000164.html
[01:10] <ogra> yes
[01:10] <mhz> hehehe
[01:12] <mhz> hmm, ogra but not in edubuntu ML, I mean
[01:12] <ogra> ah right ...
[01:12] <mhz> ogra: shall i make a quickie for Edubuntu ML?
[01:12] <ogra> its devel-announce ... it gets about 5 messages a month
[01:12] <mhz> heheh
[01:13] <ogra> sure, do one ... link to the official announce :)
[01:13] <mhz> sure
[01:13] <mhz> and one in spanish too
[01:13] <ogra> :)
[01:14] <PeregrineSky> hi all, what does it take to upgrade from ubuntu dapper to edubuntu dapper?
[01:14] <ogra> what do you want ? a workstation or a server ?
[01:14] <PeregrineSky> i want a workstation
[01:14] <Amaranth> stupid gnome-power-manager
[01:14] <ogra> for the workstation install a sudo apt-get install edubuntu-desktop suffices
[01:15] <PeregrineSky> ok
[01:15] <Amaranth> charge light on the laptop wasn't on because the battery was 100% and g-p-m always said it was on battery
[01:15] <ogra> Amaranth, what did it do ? 
[01:15] <ogra> edgy ?
[01:15] <Amaranth> dapper
[01:15] <ogra> oh
[01:15] <Amaranth> it just stuck saying it was on battery
[01:15] <PeregrineSky> soon as the update is finished i will install the edubuntu-desktop
[01:15] <Amaranth> rebooted into windows, saw that it was working fine, rebooted back to dapper
[01:15] <ogra> i thik i saw a bug about it recently ...
[01:16] <Burgwork> Amaranth, it is a HAL bug, apparently
[01:16] <Amaranth> i have to unplug and replug the power once a day to make it show the right icon
[01:16] <ogra> Burgwork, there is a patch for g-p-m upstream ...
[01:17] <ogra> its a communication issue with hal
[01:17] <Burgwork> ah, hal, the product described by the kernel devs as "an unmaintained pile of shit"
[01:17] <Amaranth> i was _freaking out_
[01:17] <ogra> its very well maintained ...
[01:17] <Amaranth> Burgwork: davidz would disagree
[01:18] <Burgwork> Amaranth, he made a joke about it recently
[01:18] <Burgwork> see planet.gnome
[01:21] <mhz> ogra: sent
[01:23] <jsgotangco> hey all
[01:23] <Burgwork> hey jsgotangco 
[01:24] <ogra> Amaranth, i found five issues i'd like to see adressed in willowng ...
[01:24] <ogra>  * daemon needs to background itself
[01:24] <ogra>  * frontend needs to connect to the systembus not the session bus 
[01:24] <ogra>    (needs services file in /etc/dbus-1/system.d/)
[01:24] <ogra>  * the GUI should have a UID 0 check
[01:24] <ogra>  * gksudo should be added to the .desktop file
[01:24] <ogra>  * we should ask AliasVegas if she has an idea for an icon
[01:25] <ogra> apart from that its already a great tool :)
[01:25] <Amaranth> UID 0 check?
[01:25] <ogra> yes, "do i run as root?"
[01:26] <Amaranth> if it isn't running as root it can't talk to the daemon (once the service file is in place)
[01:26] <ogra> see student control panel ... it has a function for that ... (could be written cleaner though)
[01:26] <Amaranth> although right now when it can't talk to the daemon it assumes it isn't running...
[01:26] <ogra> if it communicates with the system bus ?
[01:26] <Amaranth> yeah
[01:26] <Amaranth> i can restrict access to just the root user
[01:27] <ogra> yeah, that would suffice
[01:27] <ogra> drop that point then :)
[01:28] <Amaranth> now i need to look into the standard for putting service files in the right place
[01:28] <Amaranth> but first, food
[01:29] <ogra> the packaging is very nice btw 
[01:30] <Amaranth> thanks
[01:34] <mhz> edubuntu-devel-es y ubuntu-cl MLs ... sent to all
[01:36] <jsgotangco> wow mhz_off sent the annoucement!
[01:37] <mhz_off> lol
[01:48] <jsgotangco> man experiencing how good a tobacco tastes in the morning should be one of the experiences humans should not even miss even once
[01:49] <Burgwork> jsgotangco, smoking will kill you
[01:49] <jsgotangco> my grandfather died at 90 and was a chain smoker
[01:50] <Burgwork> see, smoking killed him :)
[01:50] <crimsun> I hear living will kill you, too.
[01:50] <jsgotangco> well complications from diabetes killed him as well
[01:53] <mhz> EULA's can kill you too
[01:54] <mhz> esp. if they catch you 
[01:55] <mhz> jsgotangco: and shakira's belly button can also give you a heart attack and so, kill you
[02:24] <bddebian> Howdy
[02:25] <ogra> Amaranth, iptables -t nat -A OUTPUT -p TCP --dport 80 -j DNAT --to-destination 127.0.0.1:8008
[02:26] <ogra> thats the rule you need
[02:26] <jsgotangco> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/5198238.stm
[02:26] <Amaranth> ogra: cool
[02:26] <Amaranth> how do i remove a rule from iptables?
[02:26] <ogra> Amaranth, replacing -A with -D will switch it off
[02:26] <Amaranth> ok
[02:26] <Amaranth> how do i check to see if it's on?
[02:26] <ogra> iptables -L -t nat |grep 8008
[02:27] <ogra> there are surely more elegant ways ;)
[02:30] <Amaranth> heh, that's good enough for me
[02:30] <Amaranth> i found some daemon creation code too
[02:30] <ogra> 192.168.100.203 - - [21/Jul/2006 02:25:15]  "GET /newsticker/meldung/75703 HTTP/1.1" 400 -
[02:30] <ogra> 192.168.100.203 - - [21/Jul/2006 02:29:36]  code 400, message bad url /newsticker/meldung/75703
[02:30] <ogra> 192.168.100.203 - - [21/Jul/2006 02:29:36]  "GET /newsticker/meldung/75703 HTTP/1.1" 400 -
[02:30] <ogra> 192.168.100.203 - - [21/Jul/2006 02:29:40]  code 400, message bad url /
[02:30] <ogra> hmm
[02:30] <ogra> why does it cut off the domain ? 
[02:30] <Amaranth> that's how it works
[02:30] <Amaranth> you have a seperate Host header
[02:31] <ogra> ah
[02:31] <ogra> well, my browser is not happy
[02:31] <Amaranth> what url?
[02:31] <ogra> www.heise.de
[02:31] <ogra> Message: bad url /.
[02:32] <ogra> Error code 400.
[02:32] <ogra> in fact i get that with any url
[02:32] <Amaranth> all URLs are failing now?
[02:33] <ogra> yep
[02:34] <Amaranth> *boggle*
[02:34] <Amaranth> what site did you go to before that started?
[02:34] <ogra> none ...
[02:34] <Amaranth> odd...
[02:34] <Amaranth> oh, is this the first time you did the transparent proxy stuff?
[02:35] <ogra> OperationalError: attempt to write a readonly database
[02:35] <ogra> aha
[02:35] <ogra> i ran it first with sudo
[02:35] <Amaranth> oops
[02:35] <ogra> well, the initscript will do the same :)
[02:36] <Amaranth> yeah, that's fine
[02:36] <Amaranth> but if you run it without sudo (without installing it) then run it without it can't open training.db
[02:36] <ogra> sure
[02:38] <ogra> but even if i run it with sudo it doesnt work ...
[02:38] <ogra> hmm
[02:38] <Amaranth> ok, transparent proxy no workie
[02:38] <ogra> well ...
[02:38] <ogra> it cant ... indeed
[02:39] <Amaranth> i'll have to look into that
[02:39] <ogra> nope
[02:39] <ogra> its my rule 
[02:39] <ogra> iptables -t nat -A OUTPUT -p TCP --dport 80 -j DNAT --to-destination 127.0.0.1:8008
[02:39] <ogra> that means redirect *all*
[02:39] <Amaranth> oh, so it goes into a fun loop
[02:40] <ogra> packages with destination port 80 to 8008
[02:40] <Amaranth> that the kernel must detect and break
[02:40] <ogra> yeah
[02:41] <Amaranth> probably need a second rule to make that not apply to willowng
[02:41] <Amaranth> except it shows up in ps as 'python'
[02:41] <ogra> the initscript has written a id file (if it works)
[02:41] <ogra> *pid
[02:42] <Amaranth> i don't know what all that is for anyway :P
[02:42] <ogra> huh ? 
[02:42] <Amaranth> the pid file
[02:42] <Amaranth> like where does it go, for example
[02:43] <ogra> to /var/run 
[02:43] <ogra> it will be called willowng.pid and contain the pid :) 
[02:44] <ogra> and iptables has a --pid-owner
[02:44] <ogra> so we likely can exclude it from the rule
[02:56] <Amaranth> well, my daemonize code doesn't work :P
[02:59] <Amaranth> ah, it _only_ works if you run it as root
[02:59] <Amaranth> makes sense
[03:00] <Amaranth> it also created a training.db in / :P
[03:00] <ogra> heh
[03:01] <rodarvus> ogra: shouldn't you be in bed by now? :)
[03:01] <ogra> well ...
[03:01] <ogra> you know ...
[03:01] <ogra> :)
[03:01] <LaserJock> hmm, I think we covered that a few hours ago in -motu ;-)
[03:01] <ogra> heh
[03:02] <jsgotangco> rodarvus: what happened? check up?
[03:04] <rodarvus> jsgotangco: unfortunately, not really - she is feeling a rather heavy pain on the left region of her belly
[03:04] <Amaranth> daemon code now works good
[03:04] <rodarvus> (she went through a surgery in this region, last month)
[03:04] <Amaranth> checking to see how deskbar changes it's name in ps
[03:05] <rodarvus> but it seems its only "gas" (does this word makes sense in english?)
[03:05] <Laser_away> yep
[03:05] <Amaranth> crap, it's a bit of C code
[03:10] <Amaranth> score
[03:11] <Amaranth> i've got some linux-specific but pure python code to do it
[03:12] <jsgotangco> rodarvus: pretty bad gas inside her i'd say
[03:13] <crimsun> she has C code inside her?
[03:13] <crimsun> ouch.
[03:13] <crimsun> oh, bad lag
[03:23] <Amaranth> ogra: working on the dbus service file, then this should be ready to go
[03:26] <ogra> cool
[03:26] <ogra> i'll bzr pull if i get up
[03:52] <Amaranth> ogra: http://dev.realistanew.com/releases/willowng/0.2/deb-src/
[04:16] <Lord_Athur> bye
[04:55] <sbalneav> Evening all
[05:08] <bddebian> Hello sbalneav
[05:13] <sbalneav> Quiet in here this evening.
[05:13] <sbalneav> .....too quiet. :)
[05:24] <jsgotangco> hey
[05:31] <bddebian> heh
[05:47] <lguerra> Hi
[05:49] <mhz> cool, lguerra is in town
[05:49] <mhz> Chile and Colombia in #edubutnu
[05:49] <mhz> edubuntu
[05:50] <arkan0x> \o/
[05:50] <arkan0x> .:\o/:.
[05:50] <Amaranth> are those stink lines?
[05:52] <mhz> Amaranth: stink?
[05:52] <mhz> ohhh
[05:52] <Amaranth> smell
[05:52] <mhz> the dots?
[05:52] <mhz> arkan0x: rofl!
[05:52] <mhz> Amaranth: i hope not
[05:53] <mhz> esp. because I pictured they were cheerleaders
[05:53] <bddebian> hehe
[05:53] <arkan0x> jejeje
[05:53] <bimberi> *\o/*  is a cheerleader
[05:55] <mhz> indeed
[05:56] <mhz> bimberi: nice, real nice
[05:56] <bimberi> :)
[05:56] <bimberi> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoticon
[05:56] <mhz> bimberi: it is a pity we can't see them cheering with their legs too :D
[05:57] <bimberi> hehe
[07:20] <Amaranth> *\o/*
[07:20] <Amaranth>  |
[07:20] <Amaranth> crap
[07:20] <Amaranth> *\o/*
[07:20] <Amaranth>    |
[07:20] <Amaranth> bleh
[07:20] <Amaranth> *\o/*
[07:20] <Amaranth>   |
[07:20] <Amaranth>  /\
[07:20] <Amaranth> close enough
[07:21] <bimberi>  / \
[07:22] <jsgotangco> s('_^)-b
[07:23] <bimberi> lol
[07:23] <bimberi> now what did nixternal say - "that is one ooogly face"
[07:59] <highvoltage> wow, ogra works long hours
[08:01] <HedgeMage> heya
[08:01] <HedgeMage> pygi: join #drupal  one of the trac devs is there talking about mod_python and other stuff
[08:08] <mhz> highvoltage: ping
[08:08] <mhz> HedgeMage: trac as in 'trac, the Moin based platform'?
[08:09] <HedgeMage> trac as in some web svn thingy pygi likes
[08:10] <pygi> HedgeMage: its actually more of a bug tracker
[08:10] <HedgeMage> ahh :)
[08:10] <mhz> highvoltage: a couple of friends on #edubuntu-es had a meeting a couple of hours ago and we want to translate the www.edubuntu.org site.
[08:12] <mhz> highvoltage: so, we would like to have -if possible- the whole current site version installed at one of our devel servers (Chile) for a couple of weeks, so we can edit drupal there and get it back to you or anyone else once is ready
[08:13] <mhz> pygi: i once wrote a Trac howto for Ubuntu
[08:13] <mhz> highvoltage: so, is it possible we canhave that?
[08:13] <pygi> mhz: ah :)
[08:14] <mhz> if Trac used bzr, we would get some people crazy aroud here :D
[08:14] <mhz> and Moin would kick more too
[08:14] <pygi> mhz: it can use it (plugin) but the plugin itself i bad :P
[08:15] <mhz> pygi: why is it bad?
[08:15] <pygi> not supporting more then 700 revisions, being incomplete, bla, bla
[08:15] <mhz> ooh
[08:15] <mhz> very bad
[08:15] <mhz> highvoltage: well, i gotta hit the bed
[08:16] <mhz> highvoltage: see ya
[08:16] <mhz> good night you all
[08:16] <pygi> nn mhz
[08:16] <mhz> and hope we see some faces in #ubuntu-meeting in a few hours
[08:25] <Burgundavia> when is the edubuntu meeting?
[08:27] <pygi> Burgundavia: 12:00 UTC
[08:27] <Burgundavia> ugh, 5am
[08:27] <Burgundavia> not happening
[08:30] <Burgundavia> who created that graphical rsync script and does anyone have a copy for me>
[08:30] <Burgundavia> ?
[08:35] <bimberi_> cbx33 and no, sorry
[08:35] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: it is cbx33
[08:35] <Burgundavia> hmm
[08:35] <highvoltage> eek, i missed mhz
[08:36] <bimberi_> highvoltage: all the best with your new venture! (i scanned planet.ubuntu.com recently)
[08:42] <highvoltage> bimberi_: thank you :)
[08:43] <bimberi_> :)
[08:44] <Burgundavia> highvoltage: sad to see that two schools got broken into, however
[08:50] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: it seems that it's much more than two schools :(
[08:50] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: although, only two of them were tuxlab schools.
[08:50] <Burgundavia> highvoltage: you serious? are we talking a coordinated effort or just lost of random jerks?
[08:50] <highvoltage> one of them doesn't have insuranceeither :/
[08:51] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: it seems that it was at leat 20 schools in poor areas, seems like random jerks. this happened over the school holidays
[08:51] <Burgundavia> desperate people do desperate things
[08:52] <highvoltage> some people feel that it must have been an inside job in one of the tuxlab schools to a degree, because they only stole the most valueble stuff that aren't obvously valueble
[08:52] <Burgundavia> what did they take?
[08:59] <highvoltage> server, switches, and some workstations
[09:00] <highvoltage> but it looks suspicious, because usually when a break in occurs it's just a few workstations that are stolen, no one ever touches a switch
[09:00] <highvoltage> then again, it might have been some random troublemaker who knew a bit about what the stuff is worth.
[09:01] <Burgundavia> random computer knowledge is more widespread that people might realize
[09:14] <pygi> morning RichEd
[09:14] <Burgundavia> morning RichEd
[09:15] <RichEd> greetz pygi  & Burgundavia :)
[09:16] <RichEd> 'lo highvoltage - scanning back to see what prompted the school theft discussion
[09:16] <Burgundavia> RichEd: if you have any comments on case studies for edubuntu, I am going to be working on one tomorrow night
[09:16] <Burgundavia> RichEd: I read out it
[09:16] <Burgundavia> read about it, rather
[09:19] <Burgundavia> pygi: that might be good
[09:21] <RichEd> Burgundavia: i'm willing to help with the case study ... can you bang me a 1st draft and I will comment ?
[09:21] <Burgundavia> RichEd: I don't even have enough for that, sadly
[09:22] <RichEd> What specific topic / project is it for ?
[09:22] <Burgundavia> tuxlabs
[09:24] <RichEd> That's a broad topic :) Any specifics ... what is the angle / theme / pitch, who is it directed towards, where will it be published/circulated and finally what does it hope to achieve ??
[09:24] <Burgundavia> how and why tuxlabs choose edubuntu
[09:24] <Burgundavia> what they needed from an os and how edubuntu delivered that
[09:25] <Burgundavia> the backside will be a section on what edubuntu is, in general terms (designed to be generic across all case studies)
[09:25] <RichEd> great ... digesting ... thinking ... mmmmmm
[09:26] <RichEd> okay how about this for an angle ... (was chatting to JaneW about this last night):
[09:27] <RichEd> hypothesis: due to the limited resources (time, money, people) available in the education sector, if schools were able to standardise on a stable underlying o/s
[09:27] <RichEd> which was free
[09:28] <RichEd> and well intended in its long term aims 
[09:28] <RichEd> and well supported by the following communities:
[09:28] <RichEd> - developers
[09:28] <RichEd> - kids
[09:28] <RichEd> - teachers
[09:28] <RichEd> - manufacuturers
[09:29] <RichEd> then (1) it would free up people & resources to concentrate on educational content + applications
[09:29] <Burgundavia> yep, that was the angle I was going for
[09:29] <RichEd> (2) it would allow for standard training across schools
[09:29] <Burgundavia> harp on the savings time, etc. and you will win
[09:29] <RichEd> accross countries
[09:30] <RichEd> and allow for a common base platform (in al metahphorical senses as well as an o/s sense)
[09:30] <Burgundavia> I want this initial case study to be just a discussion of tuxlabs
[09:30] <RichEd> for the building of the educational experience.
[09:30] <RichEd> Burgundavia: Fine ... noted
[09:30] <Burgundavia> what you are painting is a broader stroke, better for the backside (the generic stuff) than the specific story of how edubuntu worked in this case
[09:31] <RichEd> But if we take the above as a theme, while you (with help) write this specific one ...
[09:31] <RichEd> We can build on the message as we move forward. because NB:
[09:32] <Burgundavia> yep
[09:32] <Burgundavia> when I send my case study, I will lay out general aims/etc, in my email
[09:32] <RichEd> We can't be seen to be arrogant, or taking over ... however well intentioned ...
[09:32] <Burgundavia> oh, I am perfectly ok with being arrogant.. ;)
[09:33] <RichEd> But if we (as edubuntu) can lay a platform for OTHER people, our end-installers & end-users, like the tuXlabs people to make thier own statements / quotes along the lines of our theme ... then it will be a more gentle & subtle way of winning over people
[09:34] <Burgundavia> yep
[09:35] <RichEd> Burgundavia: i appreciate the witty comment (when you re good, you are allowed to be arrogant) ... but we need to win people over without appearing to have an agenda, or making them feel threatened.
[09:35] <Burgundavia> :D
[09:36] <RichEd> If we praised the skills of another Linux community, but said, look guys, we really think your skills are prefectly suited to build _xyz_ application, which will be a killer app that will allow linux to really penetrate ...
[09:36] <RichEd> (perfectly) not prefectly
[09:36] <Burgundavia> highvoltage: have any thoughts been put into edubuntu grid stuff?
[09:37] <Burgundavia> I think a good short term goal would be to win over the makers of educational apps, either open source or not
[09:37] <RichEd> So we'll share all of the info about our platform ... and we'll work together to build a wrap around educational environment ... bells & whistles ... wadda wadda wadda
[09:38] <RichEd> (you get my point)
[09:38] <RichEd> or convert other educational linux teams from writing o/s and steer them in the educational app direction ?
[09:38] <RichEd> both approaches would be best ... nop ?
[09:39] <Burgundavia> anything and everything
[09:39] <Burgundavia> ideally, it would be nice for the skolelinux people and us to work more together
[09:40] <RichEd> exactly: join together into a larger team, work out who is best at what, focus into smaller teams, match teams against the holistc educational requirements, and work & win together :)
[09:41] <RichEd> achieve joint success & joint recognition
[09:42] <RichEd> nd futher the underlying goals ... a better, cheaper education for all, spitting out more rounded student, better able to cope with the global economy
[09:42] <RichEd> and <- nd
[09:43] <RichEd> (and who understand that they can start or run a small busines, using IT for standard office & financial req. without having to pay for any licences
[09:44] <RichEd> instead of the curent de facto view that a licence, with annual renewal fees, is a neccesary cost of business.
[09:44] <Burgundavia> heh
[09:46] <RichEd> Burgundavia: richard.edubuntu@gmail.com <- feel free to send any ideas or comments or drafts here ...
[09:46] <Burgundavia> sure
[09:47] <RichEd> I presume you will ask highvoltage to do some quotes as a tuXlab admin ?
[09:47] <Burgundavia> absolutely
[09:47] <RichEd> I also have access to Will van de Leij (he's here locally with me in Cape Town) for input / revision
[09:48] <RichEd> Deadline ? for "Distribution" ??
[09:48] <Burgundavia> none
[09:48] <RichEd> ahhh the best kind ;)
[09:49] <RichEd> SABDFL has asked me to put together a focussed educational message we can end to govt. enquiries ... web site & .pdf
[09:50] <RichEd> So we can work this together ... your case study will be a good component
[09:50] <RichEd> send <- end
[09:50] <Burgundavia> perfect
[09:50] <Burgundavia> exactly what this is written for
[09:51] <RichEd> So you initiate the first email in the conversation, and I'll add comments from there, and draft a framework on how to hang it all together ...
[09:51] <RichEd> We'll need to poke the value buttons of:
[09:51] <RichEd> 1) end-users & admins (PULL)
[09:52] <RichEd> 2) decision makers & funders (PUSH)
[09:52] <RichEd> 3) govt. people tasked with FOSS conversion directives & goals (JOB SECURITY & RE-ELECTION)
[09:52] <RichEd> that sort of thing. Make sense ?
[09:53] <Burgundavia> selling linux is what I do everyday, so this is all I do all day
[09:54] <RichEd> Burgundavia: explain more ... in spirit or in livelihood or both ... give me some real life context please ?
[09:54] <jsgotangco> excellent you make a good salesman for userful then
[09:54] <Burgundavia> I work for userful, selling our product, DiscoverStation
[09:54] <jsgotangco> RichEd: he works for userful
[09:54] <Burgundavia> except our stuff is closed source
[09:55] <Burgundavia> well, mostly
[09:55] <RichEd> url ?
[09:55] <Burgundavia> www.userful.com
[09:56] <RichEd> :) thanks ... never forget to try the obvious
[09:56] <jsgotangco> he is actually sleeping with the enemy
[09:56] <jsgotangco> or something
[09:56] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco: !!
[09:56] <Burgundavia> yes, I sell FC based computers
[09:56] <RichEd> jsgotangco: so did mata hari ... it can be useful :)
[09:56] <jsgotangco> but then we dont do multiseat
[09:56] <Burgundavia> I wish edubuntu did
[09:57] <jsgotangco> would be a good roadmap
[09:57] <RichEd> translations please: FC ? and by multi-seat you mean 1 CPU x 4 seats with kbd, mouse & display ?
[09:57] <Burgundavia> would be interesting to mix fat clients, thin clients and multiseat stuff in a grid
[09:57] <Burgundavia> fedora core and yes
[09:58] <Burgundavia> like HP's 441
[09:58] <RichEd> funny you should mention that ... i pushed 441's when i was with HP ...
[09:58] <Burgundavia> the multiseat package in ubuntu was written for just that hardware
[09:59] <drbollokovski> hi folks
[09:59] <RichEd> but the new CEO culled the Emerging Market Solutions division ...
[09:59] <jsgotangco> hello
[09:59] <Burgundavia> userful's multiseat stuff is the most stable and flexible stuff available, and it still isn't that stable
[09:59] <RichEd> which owned the product ...
[09:59] <Burgundavia> that sucked
[09:59] <RichEd> the official story is now as follows:
[09:59] <RichEd> the 441 is not an HP supported product ... but ...
[10:00] <RichEd> a VAR can buy the components, and assemble into a 441 like product ...
[10:00] <RichEd> and supply to end users ...
[10:00] <RichEd> but it will not be supported by HP.
[10:00] <Burgundavia> our stuff is in Northwest province
[10:00] <RichEd> And that is a dodgy (in all senses) solution ...
[10:00] <Burgundavia> via omni
[10:01] <RichEd> brb ... let me check my email on my old machine for some info ....
[10:03] <RichEd> Burgundavia:  some off the record comments about HP &  linux staff ... pvt window okay ?
[10:03] <Burgundavia> sure
[10:05] <drbollokovski> could someone tell me please if it's possible to  set a root password on a box that has edubuntu installed ( my kids will break the install if i cant do it"
[10:28] <RichEd> drbollokovski: as a pretty new user can i make comment ... most serious stuff needs a password and SU clearance
[10:28] <RichEd> they won't be able to mess around too much without that password
[10:42] <drbollokovski> RichEd: my kids are CLEVER, my 6 year old took down her schools entire network
[10:49] <RichEd> wow ... that really redefines clever ;)
[10:49] <RichEd> (joke)
[10:50] <RichEd> let me hunt around a bit ... for an answer ... will be back
[10:50] <drbollokovski> ty
[10:52] <jsgotangco> yes you can set a root password
[10:52] <jsgotangco> just do sudo passwd root
[10:53] <drbollokovski> that simple? 
[10:53] <drbollokovski> damn thank you
[10:53] <jsgotangco> its alright there's always a chance to learn something everyday
[10:53] <jsgotangco> so dont say that its a dumb thing not to know it =)
[10:54] <RichEd> dumb is only if you ask the same thing twice ...
[10:55] <RichEd> i found this while you were getting the short answer: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2004-October/007001.html
[10:55] <jsgotangco> is there a good reason why to use the root account?
[10:56] <jsgotangco> yeah if you want to lock it up again just do sudo passwd -l root
[10:56] <drbollokovski> aha thanks gents
[10:57] <jsgotangco> cheers
[10:57] <drbollokovski> jsgotangco: yea there is i wanna be able to lock them out good 'n proper
[10:57] <jsgotangco> -l is lock, -u is unlock
[10:57] <drbollokovski> she's 6 and she got herself into the scvhools winblows 2k3 server as admin
[10:57] <jsgotangco> wow
[10:58] <drbollokovski> i think i have created a monster, she has always sat on my lap watching what i do, and apparently drinking it all in
[10:58] <jsgotangco> my 4 year old got to program our dvd player before
[10:58] <drbollokovski> heheh
[10:59] <jsgotangco> as far as i remember i was playing in the streets at the age :/
[10:59] <drbollokovski> it's great when you realise what they are actually capable of :D
[10:59] <drbollokovski> hehe
[10:59] <RichEd> well get her to joint the Edubuntu commnity then ... redirect that energy & enthusiasm in a positive direction :)
[11:00] <drbollokovski> yeah i was running around barefoot on the farm at that age, but i suppose our kids have an advantage because they are a LOT mor famniliar with electronics that we were
[11:00] <RichEd> drbollokovski: google search tip if you don't know it ... use the following tag: [+site:ubuntu.com etc. etc. ]  with your search ... will return results from all ubuntu sites: wiki.ubuntu com www.ubuntu.com help.ubuntu.com etc.
[11:01] <drbollokovski> cool thanks RichEd , i knew about the +site: bit but not that you could specify a tld in it
[11:02] <drbollokovski> and now to idle here and learn tricks :)
[11:03] <RichEd> hsi <- hist
[11:03] <drbollokovski> hist eh?
[11:03] <drbollokovski> :P
[11:03] <RichEd> me jumps back safely into non-agressive email
[11:04] <RichEd> (work to do)
[11:30] <jsgotangco> have a good friday all
[11:32] <pygi> enjoy jsgotangco
[12:32] <RichEd> hello - JaneW is this a better environment than "piers place" :)
[12:32] <JaneW> RichEd, definately
[12:33] <ogra> :)
[12:33] <pygi> hey JaneW
[12:33] <JaneW> hey pygi
[12:34] <highvoltage> Burgwork: sorry, been away. edubuntu grid stuff?
[12:34] <pygi> JaneW: :-/
[12:34] <ogra> JaneW, then come back :)
[12:35] <highvoltage> hi JaneW, RichEd, and Burgwork  :)
[12:35] <highvoltage> JaneW: not enjoying new job?
[12:37] <JaneW> ogra: seriously I wish I could...
[12:37] <ogra> yu can, just do it :)
[12:37] <RichEd> hi highvoltage 
[12:37] <ogra> i'm sure silbs would agree :)
[12:38] <JaneW> ogra: sure, if I didn't need a salary I would!
[12:38] <highvoltage> JaneW: we will need someone with your kind of skills real soon, if you're interested I can talk to the others about it
[12:38] <JaneW> ogra, no she wouldn't.
[12:38] <RichEd> ogra: there is this policy against hiring family members ... see if you can reverse that
[12:38] <ogra> argh, right ... i forgot about that ...
[12:38] <JaneW> RichEd, or I could dis-own you :P
[12:38] <ogra> divorce ?
[12:38] <JaneW> (joking)
[12:38] <JaneW> haha
[12:38] <ogra> *g*
[12:40] <JaneW> highvoltage, sure
[12:40] <JaneW> highvoltage, awesome stickers btw!
[12:40] <highvoltage> JaneW: i'll PM you
[12:43] <ogra> heh
[12:46] <highvoltage> RichEd: ;)
[12:46] <rodarvus> good morning
[12:47] <RichEd> 'lo rodarvus 
[12:49] <rodarvus> hi RichEd!
[12:51] <JaneW> RichEd, for me to know and you to find out... :P
[03:29] <kihai> Hi y'all!
[03:49] <jsgotangco> hi!
[04:13] <isheep> is this (6.06) the first edubuntu version?
[04:17] <ogra> nope
[04:17] <ogra> 5.10 was
[04:18] <isheep> hm oke i would like to collect the (shipit-)cd's do you know who i should contact for a 5.10 version?
[04:19] <ogra> there was no shipit version in 5.10 
[04:20] <ogra> for shipit 6.06 was the first one ... 5.10 was download only and no live CD
[04:20] <isheep> ah oke thanks :)
[04:24] <isheep> what app should i use for my ipod?
[04:42] <jsgotangco> try banshee
[04:46] <bddebian> Hello
[04:49] <Yagisan> woo, laggy goodness. running vmware over a ltsp setup
[04:54] <drbollokovski> yagisan which gfx have you got?
[05:03] <eltonlima> Boa Tarde Galera !!!!
[05:34] <ogra> *sigh* why did i ask iwj at all ...
[05:34] <mhz> ogra?
[05:35] <ogra> in -devel ...
[05:35] <mhz> oh
[05:35] <mhz> ogra: you asked because you did the right thing
[05:36] <ogra> obviously not ...
[05:44] <Yagisan> drbollokovski: on this box, vesa.
[05:45] <Yagisan> and it won'tr be changed anytime soon
[05:48] <ogra> jsgotangco, thanks, that was needed :)
[05:49] <jsgotangco> im in the middle of a job transfer so i couldn't do much at the moment, and currently sorting out things in our loco
[05:49] <ogra> iwj is my bane ...
[05:49] <jsgotangco> i can see that clearly
[05:50] <ogra> i cant get a simple answer to a simple question without having a discussion about the underlying principles ... no matter *what* i actully ask
[05:50] <ogra> i'd so love to understand why it is that way
[05:51] <jsgotangco> i notice that most of the time
[05:51] <jsgotangco> stuff like answerable to yes you can do it, no you cant
[05:51] <ogra> i notice that since i first met iwj, i'm just wondering how to revole it 
[05:51] <ogra> *resolve
[05:52] <mhz> ogra: give hi love :)
[05:52] <mhz> him
[05:52] <mhz> "love is the answer"
[05:52] <mhz> hehehe
[05:52] <mhz> crap!
[05:52] <ogra> thats what i'm trying since the first day ...
[05:52] <mhz> ogra: I could send him a T-Shirt?
[05:52] <mhz> heheh
[05:53] <mhz> or, get him a date
[05:53] <ogra> i think we both realized that we clash on tech stuff .... even though we like each other as persons ...
[05:53] <mhz> hmm
[05:53] <ogra> but thats no base to work with each other
[05:53] <mhz> 1st time I see that
[05:53] <ogra> since we need to discuss tech stuff ...
[05:55] <jsgotangco> the repeated caps are uncalled for though
[05:55] <ogra> well, there it was already to late i think
[05:57] <HedgeMage> Hiya, Yagisan :)
[06:03] <HedgeMage> pygi: soaked you with that anti-tickling spray :P
[06:04] <pygi> HedgeMage: nah, I evaded :)
[06:04] <HedgeMage> that's what they all say :P
[06:05] <pygi> HedgeMage: lol
[06:06] <mhz> rofl
[06:06] <mhz> RPGs in Edubuntu
[06:06] <mhz> or shoot'em all?
[06:07] <mhz> ogra: because he also had an episode with iwj :D
[06:07] <mhz> (that was mean)
[06:07] <mhz> :S
[06:07] <pygi> mhz: !!!!
[06:08] <mhz> sorry, I just could not help my latin sense of humour
[06:08] <pygi> hehe, no need to appologise :P
[06:08] <HedgeMage> hi Seveas 
[06:08] <pygi> HedgeMage: person I take it
[06:08] <HedgeMage> ahh
[06:09] <mhz> yup
[06:09] <jsgotangco> HedgeMage: ian w. jackson
[06:11] <ogra> HedgeMage, http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-devel-current.html it starts at 04:57
[06:11] <pygi> ogra: and shouting :P
[06:11] <jsgotangco> HedgeMage: he's ogra's co-worker, former DPL and dpkg creator (or co-creator)
[06:11] <pygi> You seem to get in a lot of trouble lately ogra :)
[06:12] <ogra> pygi, only with iwj
[06:12] <jsgotangco> he's a really nice guy, but he can be so passionate about stuff
[06:12] <jsgotangco> the the point that it makes an impression to some people who haven't met him personally
[06:13] <ogra> it could have gone fine if it had stopped at 04:59
[06:14] <pygi> hehe :)
[06:15] <HedgeMage> ogra: ahh :)
[06:21] <pygi> mhz: :P
[06:22] <highvoltage> pygi: people like ogra and I are always in trouble;)
[06:22] <ogra> highvoltage, well, i dont get in trouble with any other of my colleagues
[06:23] <mhz> highvoltage: hi there, could you read my request on drupal ?
[06:23] <highvoltage> mhz: where?
[06:23] <ogra> and i'd love to not have that probem with iwj ... that one of the reasons why i still try to overcome it by asking him stuff and confronting us with it ...
[06:23] <ogra> but that doesnt work out it seems
[06:24] <mhz> highvoltage: oh, about 9 hours ago, this channel :)
[06:24] <highvoltage> ogra: I'm not sure what you're refering to (I'll read a bit of backlog)
[06:24] <highvoltage> mhz: my away log doesn't seem to work, so i missed it :/
[06:24] <mhz> ogra: Yagisan is an expert n security issues, BTW
[06:24] <ogra> highvoltage, see the url i pasted abouve ... the -devel log
[06:24] <mhz> and he's able to answer yes, no
[06:24] <ogra> mhz, well, i have my response 
[06:25] <mhz> indeed
[06:25] <ogra> mhz, even it wasnt pleasant *how* i got it
[06:25] <mhz> no pain, no gain
[06:25] <mhz> oh, then, 'no iwj, no gain' :D
[06:28] <ogra> mhz, no, im calm ... a bit sad probably but not excited or something ...
[06:28] <highvoltage> ogra: i can't find it on that page :/
[06:28] <ogra> highvoltage, my discussion with iwj
[06:30] <highvoltage> there's not an iwj on that entire page.
[06:31] <mhz> highvoltage: hhehe, nop
[06:31] <ogra> highvoltage, hmm
[06:32] <ogra> highvoltage, youre right, thats the log from -motu suddenly
[06:33] <ogra> somehow the first half is -devel and the second one is -motu
[06:33] <pygi> it wasnt that way few secs ago?
[06:35] <highvoltage> ogra: yes, it's quite strange :)
[06:37] <mhz> highvoltage: paste it to pm
[06:37] <mhz> and I get * [highvoltage]  is away (closed IRC window because IRC is evil and counter-productive)
[06:42] <HedgeMage> ogra: I resigned from staff, not my job any more :P
[06:42] <ogra> oh
[06:43] <ogra> so you have more time for the handbook :) great :D
[06:43] <ogra> ;)
[06:45] <highvoltage> that was a nasty netsplit
[06:45] <highvoltage> mhz: yes, IRC is evil and counter-productive :)
[06:46] <mhz> rofl
[06:46] <mhz> highvoltage: you could get my pm?
[06:47] <mhz> before netsplit
[06:47] <highvoltage> mhz: yes, just before the netsplit
[06:48] <HedgeMage> ogra: hey, I told you once handbook is squared away I want to start on dev tasks
[06:48] <ogra> yeah !
[06:48] <ogra> :)))
[06:48] <mhz> highvoltage: so, is it possible?
[06:48] <pygi> HedgeMage: isnt the meeting 19:00 utc today?
[06:48] <highvoltage> mhz: yep
[06:49] <mhz> thx mon!
[06:49] <mhz> we are only 4 guys
[06:49] <highvoltage> ogra: I've been wondering about the exporting of / ro we discussed yesterday.
[06:50] <mhz> so, 3 will work on drupal info, I will edit it. And I will take care of ESA, Marketing stuff for Edubuntu and try to finally help in E.Handbook
[06:50] <highvoltage> is it really more insecure than a normal ltsp network? because anyone who can log in can already see / on the server?
[06:50] <mhz> and together, start seriously work on specs for Edubuntu Study Content
[06:50] <highvoltage> mhz: ecellent :)
[06:51] <ogra> highvoltage, well it relies on nfs being not broken etc
[06:51] <highvoltage> ok, you mean in terms of an NFS exploit?
[06:52] <ogra> imagine a bug that wipes the content of the underlying FS
[06:52] <highvoltage> ouch
[06:52] <ogra> with /opt/ltsp you wont kill your server
[06:52] <ogra> also how would you handle multiple chroots ?
[06:53] <ogra> i.e. two i386 roots tailored for certain things and one ppc chroot
[06:53] <highvoltage> ogra: what do you mean? why would I need multiple chroots?
[06:53] <ogra> highvoltage, ask in #ltsp ... seems to be a very widespread setup
[06:53] <highvoltage> couldn't I just have different runlevels (or init scripts) for that?
[06:54] <ogra> no
[06:54] <ogra> ppc binaries are still not executable on i386
[06:54] <highvoltage> ok, I meant for the 386's at least.
[06:55] <highvoltage> so for PPC at least you could have a chroot inside the main /
[06:55] <highvoltage> i suppose that's unavoidable
[06:55] <highvoltage> but at least you don't have duplication of i386 binaries
[06:55] <ogra> you cut down customizability
[06:56] <highvoltage> hmm... what if you pass an init=/bin/ltspinit to the terminal and have custom scripts to start that up?
[06:56] <highvoltage> then you could have a real lean client machine, which is even more customisable than our current ones.
[06:57] <highvoltage> where ltspinit would run our own ltsp init scripts, of course
[06:57] <ogra> well, discuss it with jammcq and sbalneav ... as long as we want to take over upstream we wont get around te separate chroot
[06:58] <ogra> thats a very hackish solution 
[06:59] <ogra> we should use debian policy compliant initscripts ... and not hacked up ones that start up others
[06:59] <highvoltage> i don't understand what's too hacking about it, for me it sounds less hacky than current methods, but ok, I'll take it up with scott and jim :)
[06:59] <highvoltage> ah, i see. debian compliancy.
[06:59] <ogra> also we need to maintain backwards compatibility and upgradeability
[07:00] <ogra> (if we take over upstream that means for all distros as well as for ltsp.org)
[07:02] <highvoltage> ogra: ok, thanks for explaining. that gives me some more to think about. I will find a way to make it work, and make it Debian compliant. I am determined about this.
[07:03] <highvoltage> (not necasarily the / sharing, but avoiding the duplication of binaries, it's anti-unix, afaiac)
[09:29] <pygi> HedgeMage: meeting in a minute?
[09:29] <mhz> Marketing meeting is on #ubuntu-meeting
[09:30] <LaserJock> HedgeMage and pygi: you watching -doc?
[09:30] <pygi> LaserJock: I am
[09:30] <HedgeMage> LaserJock: about to, I just got back
[09:30] <pygi> mhz: I know, cookbook meeting should be there now :P
[09:31] <LaserJock> pygi: I thought it was after the doc team meeting/
[09:31] <HedgeMage> LaserJock: am now
[09:31] <mhz> after?
[09:31] <pygi> ergh, right LaserJock
[09:31] <pygi> 21:30 UTC
[09:31] <HedgeMage> pygi: no, cookbook is in two hours.
[09:31] <pygi> sorry :P
[09:37] <mhz> HedgeMage: handbook or cookbook ?
[09:37] <mhz> :D
[09:37] <HedgeMage> mhz: handbook
[09:37] <HedgeMage> sorry
[09:37] <HedgeMage> my poor brain
[09:38] <pygi> HedgeMage: jabber pls
[09:38] <HedgeMage> one sec getting lip balm my lips are sun burnt
[09:42] <HedgeMage> my poor lips :(
[09:43] <LaserJock> hehe
[09:43] <HedgeMage> rofl
[10:10] <LaserJock> HedgeMage: you still lurking in -doc?
[10:11] <HedgeMage> LaserJock: yep, though I somewhat lost track of the convo when I got a phone call
[10:11] <HedgeMage> what did I miss?
[10:11] <LaserJock> hehe, stuff
[10:18] <HedgeMage> LaserJock: Grr, another phone call.  If anything else comes up that I should notice, please hilight me
[10:21] <Burgwork> somebody pinged me?
[10:21] <LaserJock> not sure, but the doc meeting is going on if you haven't seen
[10:27] <cbx33> hi all
[10:27] <pygi> morning cbx33
[10:28] <cbx33> mornin?
[10:28] <cbx33> evenin here
[10:28] <LaserJock> hi cbx33 
[10:28] <cbx33> hey LaserJock 
[10:30] <mhz> him cbx33 
[10:30] <mhz> hi
[10:30] <cbx33> hi mhz 
[10:30] <LaserJock> cbx33: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue?start=20
[10:32] <cbx33> :D:D
[10:32] <cbx33> does that mean?
[10:32] <LaserJock> that the NEW queue
[10:33] <LaserJock> I put in a good word for it to infinity so maybe it'll get done soon ;-)
[10:33] <cbx33> :D:D
[10:33] <cbx33> thanks LaserJock 
[10:33] <cbx33> who's good on classical music here
[10:34] <mhz> you mean from the 'classic' period? or musica docta?
[10:36] <cbx33> I need to know the name of the beethoven peice that is the title track to the film beethoven
[10:38] <ogra> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000008DBZ/104-8518211-3739151?v=glance&n=5174 
[10:38] <ogra> ?
[10:39] <cbx33> yeh I saw that
[10:39] <cbx33> but none of those track titles are a beethoven piece, just bits from the film
[10:39] <cbx33> :(
[10:40] <ogra> are you sure you mean that movie ? 
[10:40] <ogra> not amadeus ?
[10:41] <cbx33> yes that movie
[10:41] <cbx33> I'm sure
[10:44] <mhz> cbx33: but none of that listing is beethoven
[10:44] <cbx33> I know
[10:45] <cbx33> that's what I'm saying, I know there is a well known beethoven track used in that film
[10:46] <Amaranth> ogra: did you get the link to my package?
[10:46] <mhz> exit
[10:47] <cbx33> exit?
[10:47] <mhz> sorry, wrong tab :)
[10:47] <HedgeMage> cbx33: Bethoven's Fifth Symphony... but I wouldn't call it a track, more like a half-dozen notes ;)
[10:48] <ogra> Amaranth, nope
[10:48] <mhz> HedgeMage: hehehe
[10:48] <Amaranth> http://dev.realistanew.com/releases/willowng/0.2/deb-src/
[10:48] <ogra> Amaranth, i had a heavy diasussion about transparent proxying today btw
[10:48] <Amaranth> eh?
[10:48] <LaserJock> mhz: flux? poor guy
[10:48] <ogra> with iwj
[10:49] <mhz> LaserJock: why? dont like efficiency?
[10:49] <ogra> seems the whole distro team is not fond of transparent proxying .... so we should just close port 80 and set the global gconf settings for the proxy server
[10:49] <LaserJock> mhz: nah, you need a real wm like openbox ;-)
[10:49] <Amaranth> ack
[10:50] <mhz> ogra: is not 'transparent' 
[10:50] <Amaranth> does firefox listen to the gconf settings?
[10:50] <mhz> :D
[10:50] <Amaranth> does apt?
[10:50] <ogra> mhz, GRR
[10:50] <ogra> Amaranth, afaik yes
[10:51] <mhz> ogra: you know, my 'transparent' latin sense of humour...just cant help it
[10:51] <mhz> :)
[10:51] <ogra> yep
[10:51] <ogra> :)
[10:51] <LaserJock> hehe
[10:52] <ogra> it was just a *very* unpleasant discussion ...
[10:52] <Amaranth> so when the check is ticked we block off port 80 (for all but willowng) and set the debconf and gconf proxy settings?
[10:52] <ogra> yep
[10:53] <ogra> without any internal iptables forwarding/redirect
[10:53] <ogra> it seems thats done better with a special user ... so we should have a willowng user that runs the backend ...
[10:54] <ogra> instead of using the process id
[10:54] <Amaranth> ok
[10:54] <Amaranth> out of my league, i think :)
[10:55] <ogra> Amaranth, well, your league is to add a user from your preinst and to make sure willowng is run by it from the initscript :) i'll care for the firewalling
[10:56] <Amaranth> just useradd willowng?
[10:56] <ogra> look at other packages that do it 
[10:56] <Amaranth> oh man, i don't want to look at apache :P
[10:56] <ogra> cupy for example
[10:56] <ogra> *cups
[10:57] <HedgeMage> mhz: We won't and we love you for picking us over coffee :)
[10:57] <ogra> hmm, willown doesnt start ...
[10:58] <Amaranth> with the 0.2 package?
[10:58] <pygi> mhz: uh :(
[10:58] <Amaranth> works for me
[10:58] <ogra> ah, sorry, my fault
[10:58] <pygi> mhz: I'll miss sleep :P
[10:58] <pygi> but I guess your thing is more important
[10:58] <mhz> HedgeMage: thx for the understanding
[10:58] <ogra> Amaranth, hm
[10:59] <Amaranth> oh wow, cups uses cdbs
[11:00] <ogra> pitti maintains it 
[11:00] <mhz> pygi: yeah, i prefer missing sleeping. I am so fan of good coffee... and this is only once a week. Anyways, as long as we dont cancel that meeting, coffee baristas can wait. Edubuntu needs more love than baristas.
[11:00] <ogra> he's a big cdbs fan
[11:00] <pygi> mhz: we wont cancel it, I just dont know how much people will attend
[11:00] <Amaranth> i can't find anything in here about adding a user though
[11:00] <mhz> HedgeMage: however, if Shakira were in the baristas session, I would have not chosen you guys, sorry
[11:00] <Amaranth> i checked all the .preinst files and rules
[11:00] <HedgeMage> mhz: hehehe :)
[11:00] <ogra> postinst ? 
[11:01] <mhz> smooch?
[11:01] <Amaranth> ah, found it
[11:01] <ogra> Amaranth, ok, works fine with the new package ... i had broken stuff lying around
[11:01] <HedgeMage> mhz: smooch == a kiss on the cheek
[11:02] <mhz> HedgeMage: thx, I love kisses
[11:02] <HedgeMage> :D
[11:02] <ogra> Amaranth, you should probably have some info about the port in the UI :)
[11:02] <Amaranth> ogra: why does a user need to change the port? :)
[11:03] <ogra> i.e. a small explanation which port is used under the "enable proxy" checkbx
[11:03] <ogra> i didnt say it needs to be changeable :)
[11:03] <Amaranth> and instant-apply + port text entry == ouch
[11:03] <Amaranth> oh, ok
[11:03] <ogra> i just had to look up the portnumber myself yesterday in the code ;)
[11:04] <Amaranth> i think 8008 is an apache thing
[11:04] <Amaranth> i should find a better port
[11:04] <Amaranth> 53957 should work :)
[11:04] <ogra> not so high ...
[11:04] <ogra> 7990 
[11:04] <ogra> 9111
[11:04] <Amaranth> what's the difference?
[11:04] <ogra> 8563
[11:04] <ogra> its common to use a four digit number ...
[11:05] <ogra> might be there is a policy, not sure ...
[11:05] <mhz> HedgeMage: i have read the https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuHandbook/EdgyOutline
[11:05] <Amaranth> ok
[11:05] <mhz> HedgeMage: can I give you a Moin tip?
[11:05] <Amaranth> 8563 for proxy, 8568 for web frontend (coming soon maybe)
[11:05] <ogra> ok
[11:06] <ogra> check /etc/services that its not taken by anything ...
[11:06] <HedgeMage> mhz: go for it
[11:06] <HedgeMage> I don't do much wikispeak so I'm sure I could use tips :)
[11:06] <mhz> whenever you want readers to know you were there, or just sign a comment (like editors note), you can use this syntax @SIG@, and then save the page. This will place a nice timestamp with your name there.
[11:06] <ogra> Amaranth, why do you use a control.in file ? thats quite ugly
[11:06] <HedgeMage> ahh cool
[11:06] <Amaranth> ogra: neither show up in there
[11:07] <HedgeMage> Thanks!
[11:07] <Amaranth> ogra: i dunno
[11:07] <mhz> HedgeMage: yw (least I can do after such great kiss :D)
[11:07] <ogra> please try to keep away from that unless you want team maintenance :)
[11:07] <ogra> its helpful if te maintainers list is generated ... but thats the only reason to use a .in file there
[11:08] <mhz> ogra: we can't use moin @sig@ ?
[11:08] <ogra> why ?
[11:08] <mhz> HedgeMage: hey! I got tons of tips!! :D
[11:08] <mhz> heheh
[11:08] <HedgeMage> hehe :)
[11:08] <pygi> :P
[11:08] <pygi> HedgeMage: jabber
[11:08] <mhz> ogra: you did nto mean my comment, sorry
[11:08] <HedgeMage> brb, I need to snag some lunch before the meeting or I'll keep snacking on junk food
[11:08] <ogra> Amaranth, we also have a new policy that programs that dont need them shouldnt have stop scripts ...
[11:09] <ogra> so drop the 6 and 0 from postinst 
[11:09] <Amaranth> i have no idea how to do that
[11:09] <ogra> remove 0 and 6 from the update-rc.d line :)
[11:10] <Amaranth> ah, that bit of magic that you gave me :)
[11:10] <mhz> pygi: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuHandbook/EdgyOutline, what else should I be reading before meeting?
[11:10] <ogra> Amaranth, but only if you are sure that wont break ... i.e. if willowng needs to write to the DB or something from the initscript, make sure it can do that
[11:11] <Amaranth> I haven't had any problems with killing it randomly.
[11:11] <mhz> pygi: oh, i gotta get a chocolate for the coffee I'll make for meeting. I'll be back in 12 minutes
[11:11] <Amaranth> sqlite3 does transactions so it should be safe
[11:11] <ogra> and if we want it in main (which we want at some point) it needs to use the lsb_init functions instead of echo in the initscript
[11:11] <pygi> mhz: ok
[11:11] <ogra> ok, then just drop 0 and 6
[11:12] <pygi> HedgeMage: this stuff of Edgy Outline is so outdated
[11:12] <Amaranth> *grumble*
[11:12] <pygi> that might be my fault tho
[11:12] <Amaranth> dh_make should generate a good initscript then
[11:12] <ogra> dh_make is not lsb compliant :)
[11:12] <ogra> (neither is any other script we have... thats manual work)
[11:13] <ogra> but sounds like a good project for a bored one ;)
[11:13] <HedgeMage> pygi: what's outdated?
[11:13] <pygi> HedgeMage: well, the outline?
[11:13] <pygi> it misses many chapters :P
[11:13] <HedgeMage> pygi: how so? I thought it was up to date on what we said last meeting and the one before
[11:13] <cbx33> HedgeMage, thanx
[11:13] <HedgeMage> I could be wrong, of course.
[11:13] <cbx33> brb
[11:14] <HedgeMage> cbx33: np
[11:14] <pygi> HedgeMage: we didnt had (and I dont see anything new) update-ssh-keys on that and we wont have it here according to outline?
[11:14] <HedgeMage> pygi: IIRC that's not needed any more... at least there was some talk about a patch regarding it on the mailing list.
[11:14] <ogra> Amaranth, i'll upload it ... just make sure you do the changes above in the next time ...
[11:15] <HedgeMage> brb, really do need food before the meeting or I'll be forced to binge on greasy potato chips or something
[11:15] <pygi> HedgeMage: it's needed, (actually it isnt), but perhaps that will have to be dropped
[11:16] <pygi> it misses many chaps it seems
[11:16] <HedgeMage> what else is missing?
[11:16] <pygi> I cant say now, I'm sleeping :P
[11:20] <HedgeMage> lol ok
[11:20] <HedgeMage> good night :)
[11:21] <HedgeMage> *** Eduuntu Handbook meeting in 10 minutes ***
[11:21] <pygi> HedgeMage: well, I will attend meeting, but I am still sleeping :P
[11:21] <ogra> Amaranth, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=
[11:21] <ogra> its in NEW
[11:22] <Amaranth> yay
[11:22] <ogra> :D
[11:24] <Amaranth> shower time,  back later
[11:31] <pygi> HedgeMage: meeting
[11:33] <HedgeMage> pygi: trying to start... doesn't seem anyone's awake in there
[11:33] <HedgeMage> mhz: meeting?
[12:00] <pygi> HedgeMage: any chance you know how can I recover my pass? :P
[12:01] <HedgeMage> pygi: just ping any staffer
[12:01] <pygi> HedgeMage: how could I do that when I cant pm? :P
[12:02] <HedgeMage> staff get pms from unregistered users
[12:03] <mhz> pygi: afaik, rob is staff
[12:04] <pygi> mhz: I wouldnt know who that is :P
[12:04] <mhz> rob on #ubuntu