[01:06] <troy_s> newz2000, pong
[01:07] <troy_s> wtf... no topic?
[06:10] <kwwii> moin
[06:56] <imbrandon> moins kwwii
[06:56] <kwwii> howdy imbrandon
[07:24] <Guitarhero> Hey I just joined on the Launchpad page
[07:27] <kwwii> Guitarhero: cool
[07:28] <Guitarhero> I was just wondering if there was any way I could help out
[07:28] <Guitarhero> I dont know where all the objectives are in their development
[07:30] <imbrandon> Guitarhero: you follow the mailing list at all ?
[07:31] <Guitarhero> no i just signed on the launch pad page, im gonna sign up for the mailing list now, should I just wait for that?
[07:33] <Guitarhero> alright im on the mailing list
[07:34] <kwwii> Guitarhero: check the wiki page as well
[07:34] <kwwii> between the wiki, the mailing list and this channel you will find pretty much all the info you need
[07:35] <Guitarhero> yeah I was lookin at the wiki
[07:35] <imbrandon> yup, a good place to start would be to look at the recient ML archives
[07:35] <imbrandon> it has alot of info
[07:35] <imbrandon> err ok
[07:35] <kwwii> hehe, he ran away
[07:36] <imbrandon> lol , most do, just not that fast
[07:36] <imbrandon> haha
[07:36] <kwwii> lol
[07:36] <kwwii> the archive scared him
[07:36] <kwwii> or perhaps the wiki
[08:12] <troy_s> naw... we got him on the mailing list now!
[08:12] <troy_s> lol
[08:12] <troy_s> he's hooked.
[08:12] <troy_s> all of the loud folks have deactivated their launchpad memberships, membership is thriving, and we have a good energy going forwards.
[08:12] <troy_s> it's all good.
[08:13] <kwwii> hehe
[08:31] <kwwii> troy_s: is that the correct wiki page you pointed to in your mail?
[08:31] <troy_s> for what?
[08:31] <troy_s> launchpad?
[08:31] <troy_s> should be.
[08:31] <troy_s> i hope it is :)
[08:31] <kwwii> 75 Launchpad Members!
[08:31] <kwwii> Right now, we are currently sitting in the Proposal phase,
[08:31] <kwwii> so we welcome all work that is along the style given on the
[08:31] <kwwii> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=42585
[08:31] <kwwii> wiki page.
[08:31] <troy_s> grr
[08:31] <troy_s> nope
[08:31] <troy_s> wrong
[08:31] <troy_s> FECK
[08:32] <kwwii> I thought I should say something before you wake up in the morning with a lot of stupid questions
[08:33] <troy_s> feck
[08:33] <troy_s> thanks
[08:34] <troy_s> weird paste action happened there.
[08:34] <troy_s> oh well.
[08:34] <troy_s> errata mail sent out.
[08:35] <kwwii> no prob :-)
[08:35] <kwwii> I think I will make myself breakfast now...bbl
[04:53] <mhb> hello everyone
[05:19] <troy_s> Who_, how you doing?
[05:19] <troy_s> mhb, good to have you back
[05:19] <troy_s> bloody split lost the topic again
[05:19] <troy_s> grr.
[05:20] <Who_> troy_s: well, just about to 'cast the net' a bit wider to gett Blubuntu contributers - making a forum post and blogging it
[05:20] <troy_s> ahh...
[05:20] <Who_> http://whosdabbling.blogspot.com/2006/07/ubuntu-some-like-it-blue-your-help.html
[05:20] <troy_s> i really think you need a guiding motif to elevate the blubuntu to something greater.
[05:20] <Who_> any comments?
[05:21] <troy_s> i really like your systematic approach
[05:21] <troy_s> i think it will be a very good process for future development
[05:21] <Who_> cool, that Blubuntu theme page could actually be quite good for any other theme teams that want to use it, too
[05:22] <troy_s> whoa...
[05:22] <troy_s> shuttleworth blogged about it.
[05:22] <Who_> I was wondering if you can paste the line you use in imagemagik to make the contact sheets - i want to make a script
[05:22] <troy_s> very simple...
[05:22] <troy_s> let me do a bit of explaining first.
[05:22] <Who_> troy_s: yea not my theme, the art team :) you got a nice mention too
[05:23] <troy_s> the command is montage
[05:23] <troy_s> -tile has TWO purposes
[05:23] <troy_s> the one we want is just a value
[05:23] <troy_s> for width by height
[05:23] <Who_> okie
[05:25] <Who_> thanks
[05:26] <troy_s> hold
[05:26] <troy_s> not finished
[05:26] <troy_s> had to look somethign up
[05:26] <Who_> do you think it is fair to say that the theme team process 'has the blessing' of sabdfl?
[05:26] <troy_s> i know it does...
[05:26] <troy_s> hold on.
[05:26] <Who_> oh, okay, still listening :)
[05:26] <Who_> so I can say that in my forum post...
[05:30] <Who_> is this a fiar description (I am worried about misadvertising): You can join a project by the Ubuntu-Art team (with Mark Shuttleworth's blessing) to develop a slick, clean, consistent blue theme to be included in Edgy. We want your contributions NOW. The theme will only be included if it is perfect, distinctive + there is space on the CD - see article for how we can make it so good they will _make space_ for it
[05:33] <troy_s> ok
[05:33] <troy_s> so ... back to helping you
[05:33] <troy_s> sorry... had to do something
[05:34] <troy_s> -tile will give you geometry -- for example, to do four colums you would put -tile 4
[05:34] <troy_s> (which is what i use)
[05:34] <troy_s> you there Who_
[05:34] <troy_s> another useful command is -label
[05:34] <troy_s> which you can format
[05:34] <troy_s> i just use the file names
[05:34] <troy_s> -label %f
[05:34] <troy_s> will label each image with the filename
[05:34] <troy_s> -geometry is the underlying geometry of each image...
[05:34] <troy_s> so
[05:35] <troy_s> if you do -geometry 260
[05:35] <troy_s> each contact sheet thumbnail will have its width scaled to 260
[05:35] <troy_s> you can force height, but if your images are off, they will scale improperly
[05:35] <troy_s> -frame will create an outline... looks like a slide and you can control all sorts of things like colour, font, etc.
[05:36] <troy_s> -frame 1 puts a nice simple 1 pixel border sep
[05:36] <troy_s> soooooooooooooooo
[05:36] <Who_> troy_s: sorry, had to do something too :P
[05:36] <Who_> I'm just catching up
[05:36] <troy_s> montage -tile 4 -geometry 260 -frame 1 -label %f -monitor my*images.jpg contact_sheet.jpg
[05:36] <troy_s> the -monitor gives you progress indicators
[05:37] <troy_s> the 'theme teams' are approved by mark shuttleworth
[05:37] <troy_s> i would try to avoid implying that 'only blubuntu' is blessed :)
[05:37] <troy_s> just a semantic wording issue
[05:38] <Who_> yea, true.
[05:38] <troy_s> imagemagick is deadly powerful
[05:38] <troy_s> just so you know... the online docs are very good too
[05:38] <troy_s> www.imagemagick.org
[05:38] <Who_> thanks
[05:38] <troy_s> now you know
[05:38] <Who_> I used it for some stuff the other night and was impressed
[05:38] <troy_s> you can help me contact sheet all the stuffs :)
[05:39] <troy_s> so what would you think is a guiding principle for blubuntu?  any motifs/
[05:39] <troy_s> ?
[05:39] <Who_>  troy_s; not yet - that is what I was working on last night
[05:39] <Who_> tory_s: I didn't get much that I liked :P
[05:39] <troy_s> great
[05:39] <troy_s> yes it isn't easy
[05:39] <troy_s> motifs are tricky
[05:40] <troy_s> you can really learn a lot by studying art / movies for good motifs and how they work wonderfully
[05:40] <troy_s> some elevate the motifs to metaphorical instances...
[05:40] <Who_> I was trying (and this is waht I liked best) the idea of a small 'puddle' (I.E Large droplet) of water on a smooth surface, but didn't have much success rendering it in Inkscape
[05:40] <troy_s> yes... i am a fan of that style of ripple
[05:40] <troy_s> blobby gentle ripples
[05:41] <Who_> but I think the idea could look soo nice if it was consistendly done
[05:41] <troy_s> yes.
[05:41] <Who_> can you do them in Inkscape?
[05:41] <troy_s> i think you need to try to wrap that idea
[05:41] <troy_s> inkscape rocks.
[05:41] <Who_> wrap?
[05:41] <troy_s> i think you need to wrap the visual cues
[05:41] <troy_s> with some sort of semantic clue
[05:41] <troy_s> the reason being, is that when you get 'stuck' you have an ideology to fall back on
[05:41] <troy_s> with me?
[05:42] <Who_> yea, I am since the last statement...
[05:42] <troy_s> it gives you one set of 'screening devices' to figure out relevant content
[05:42] <Who_> (I.E that makde things clear)
[05:42] <troy_s> yes, you can quickly go 'that is great work, but it doesn't really 'fit' with 'peace / freedom / flow/ foobar'
[05:42] <troy_s> it helps you sculpt the work
[05:43] <troy_s> and makes the process faster when you need inspiration for a given icon / etc.
[05:43] <Who_> well, any ideas what I can wrap my spilled water in :P?
[05:43] <troy_s> the puddle idea is sort of a layer of abstraction on top of that.
[05:44] <troy_s> it isn't easy... once you find it though, you will pretty much know it...
[05:44] <troy_s> i would suggest doing a few things:
[05:44] <troy_s> A) get a good cheap photo reference book (phaidon's has several)
[05:44] <troy_s> B) get a good cheap art reference book (phaidon's has several - as does taschen)
[05:44] <troy_s> flip through them
[05:44] <troy_s> and see what some artists have done, and perhaps build on what they were trying to embody
[05:45] <troy_s> there are a few good collections of print media too... they are great for going with a given 'style' regarding historical genres
[05:45] <troy_s> because if you hit the ground running and start producing, one generally errors on the following:
[05:46] <troy_s> A) if the creative output is good, it will 'wander' and decrease cohesion
[05:46] <troy_s> B) you will hit a wall going 'i can't puddle a logout icon!'
[05:46] <troy_s> etc.
[05:46] <troy_s> and more deeply than that, you can quickly get others up to speed by having them read your preamble.
[05:46] <troy_s> aka paper trail :)
[05:47] <Who_> wow!
[05:47] <Who_> that's a lot of info :)
[05:48] <troy_s> consider it a treatment before you go out and write a novel or a script.
[05:48] <troy_s> or even a little more low level than that... a sort of fundamental framework.
[05:48] <troy_s> a lot of people have _very_ complex creative 'sensors' -- like when you look at a picture or watch a movie
[05:49] <troy_s> when they say 'i don't like it' it is a basic statement that they have hit some of those triggers that something is violating their complex and refined sensors.
[05:49] <Who_> so have you got any ideas for Blubuntu?
[05:49] <troy_s> yes i have a few
[05:49] <troy_s> i'll email you them...
[05:49] <Who_> cool :)
[05:50] <troy_s> i need to do some serious work on it first though, like flog through some of my art reference works...
[05:50] <troy_s> try to get something fresh...
[05:50] <troy_s> right now, i have a glut of updates to hit on the wiki
[05:50] <troy_s> and try to clean them up
[05:50] <Who_> yea, actually, it's about time I did some more work for Human!
[05:50] <troy_s> probably establish four good wiki pages with a summary link for the contact sheets etc.
[05:50] <troy_s> yep
[05:50] <troy_s> don't worry too much about hitting edgy
[05:51] <troy_s> personally, to make a really pro theme, i would say that a team would need at least two cycles to get a mockup going
[05:51] <troy_s> that 'works'
[05:51] <Who_> (do you have a suspicion that the space won't allow it anyway?)
[05:51] <troy_s> otherwise it is a kludge.
[05:51] <troy_s> yes.
[05:51] <troy_s> until frank and daniel get how to remove ALL the legacy gnome crap
[05:51] <troy_s> and extra gnome theme crap this
[05:51] <troy_s> out
[05:52] <troy_s> (which is a technological migration issue -- how to resolve a users system if they are using some of that information etc)
[05:52] <troy_s> i think space will be at a premium
[05:52] <Who_> I do really want to get something out ofr review for edgy, and I want it to to be good - as much as anything to prove that I can get something produced in this framework and that I can meet the deadlines
[05:53] <Who_> which is admittedly, not going to yield the most kickass theme we could possible have made it, but we have future release cycles to hone them
[05:55] <Who_> If this was for Dapper (I.E an LTS release) I may not take that view, but for Edgy, I think shipping a bloody good theme that can still be improved on is okay
[05:55] <andreasn> what legacy gnome crap?
[05:56] <Who_> I 'legacy gnome crap' refers to the stuff in gnome-themes...
[05:57] <andreasn> the themes in gnome-themes?
[05:58] <andreasn> crap is a bit harsh eh, we're doing as good work as we can refreshing those
[06:00] <Who_> not my words :P
[06:00] <mhb> andreasn: it's "sincerity weekend" now in Ubuntu Artwork Team :o)
[06:00] <mhb> andreasn: (it's just a joke)
[06:00] <andreasn> :)
[06:01] <mhb> andreasn: if you read the ML from yesterday you would understand it better :o)
[06:01] <andreasn> so much noise on the ml that I can't keep up with everything :(
[06:02] <mhb> andreasn: some other theme was critisized very badly
[06:03] <andreasn> what was the subject?
[06:03] <Who_> Domething about Tropic
[06:04] <Who_> Tropic beta 1 released, I think
[06:04] <Who_> I think it was criticised very 'well' - I.E sensitively and constructively
[06:04] <mhb> andreasn: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Tropic
[06:05] <mhb> Who_: well
[06:05] <Who_> mhb:?
[06:05] <mhb> Who_: well, you could say that
[06:06] <Who_> :P
[06:09] <Who_> http://digg.com/linux_unix/Help_to_ensure_Ubuntu_Edgy_has_a_slick_blue_theme_installed_automatically
[06:10] <Who_> you could digg that if you want to avoid the need to criticise me well/badly over Blubuntu :P
[06:12] <mhb> Who_: I called yesterday "sincerity day" here on the chat but it seems it continues :o)
[06:14] <mhb> Who_: some people reacted "not as constructively" on the ML yesterday like you did
[06:14] <troy_s> on tt-tropic?
[06:14] <Who_> perhaps I haven't read them all yet - hold on
[06:14] <mhb> troy_s: yep
[06:15] <troy_s> big email folks, please take the time to read and get some views to the thread, the info is important.
[06:15] <troy_s> i have tt-tropic filtered...
[06:15] <troy_s> no time.
[06:15] <troy_s> hopefully it wasn't too bad.
[06:16] <Who_> will do. How 'bout digging the Blubuntu article in return ;)
[06:16] <mhb> troy_s: well, I was suprised that the negative reactions came so late
[06:16] <troy_s> missed that.
[06:16] <troy_s> who_ yep... i always gravitate to structure.
[06:16] <troy_s> more structure, the more i participate.
[06:17] <troy_s> but we might want some folks with talent too :)
[06:17] <troy_s> as opposed to hacks like me.
[06:17] <troy_s> the folks who participate in irc are probably the 'height' of actives... we need those lurkers.
[06:18] <Who_> troy_s: can you try not to break the links (to the Blubuntu page) I just spread as far and wide as I possibly could :S
[06:18] <troy_s> yes
[06:18] <troy_s> i always try to avoid breaking links.
[06:18] <troy_s> i will probably just try to keep a separate area out of 'incoming'
[06:24] <mhb> Who_: done. Happier? :o)
[06:24] <Who_>  sure am :)
[06:27] <mhb> Who_: 2 still isn't much :o)
[06:28] <Who_> lol, yea, I don't think it is likely to take off, but it was worth a try :)
[06:31] <mhb> Who_: but maybe if all these people voted for this...
[06:31] <mhb> Who_: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Down_with_Brown_-_Changing_Login_Splash_Screen_on_Ubuntu_Dapper_Drake
[06:32] <Who_> mhb: it was seeing that on the front page that made me think that maybe I could get some diggs
[06:33] <mhb> Who_: it's interesting that so many people think the Ubuntu theme is not that good
[06:33] <mhb> the brown colour, to be exact
[06:33] <Who_> mhb: I think it really does grow on you
[06:33] <Who_> I see a lot of things these days and think - wow! I wouldn't want to _use_ that
[06:34] <Who_> not so much with brown though
[06:36] <Who_> troy_s: I did you a reply
[06:37] <mhb> see you later, boys
[06:50] <troy_s> Who_, the brown thing is merely implementation.  and it is new -- and as a 'general' rule, people don't know how to feel with new so they tend to 'react' to it.
[06:50] <Who_> inee
[06:51] <Who_> *indeed
[09:10] <Who_> troy_s: I'm trying to use montage here but it is screwing my images over
[09:10] <Who_> just using
[09:11] <Who_>  montage -tile 1 *Theme.png Themes.png
[09:11] <Who_> all I want ois for the images to get stacked on top of each other!
[09:20] <troy_s> Who_, you still here?
[09:20] <troy_s> whooooosy
[09:20] <troy_s> what do you mean by stacked?
[09:20] <Who_> troy_s: yea
[09:21] <troy_s> etc.
[09:21] <troy_s> you want a collage approach?
[09:21] <Who_> It isn't the montage command
[09:21] <troy_s> or in a single line?
[09:21] <Who_> it is the crop one that I used before hand, it seems
[09:21] <troy_s> what is the issue?
[09:21] <troy_s> ahh...
[09:21] <troy_s> yep... montage is pretty darn reliable.
[09:21] <troy_s> i encourage you to read the doc page for some of the specific params.
[09:22] <Who_> troy_s: yea, that's what I've been doing
[09:22] <Who_> I want to crop the top  right hand corner
[09:23] <Who_> I used convert Screenshot*.png -crop 280x54+1000+0 small.png
[09:25] <Who_> but that creates an image 280x54 pixels with the cropped bit offset, which isn't what I wanted - I wanted the cropping to start offset (which it does) but in the final image I wanted an offset of 0
[09:27] <Who_> which is why they make repage :D
[09:27] <Who_> (add +repage to the options)
[09:30] <troy_s> yep
[09:30] <troy_s> like i said, it is a pretty damn powerful suite.
[09:35] <troy_s> Who_, you get it sorted?
[09:35] <Who_> troy_s: yea, repage did it
[09:35] <troy_s> great
[09:35] <troy_s> !
[09:35] <troy_s> must shower and go buy movie tickets for my daughter.
[09:35] <troy_s> keep me up to speed!
[09:35] <troy_s> i want to see a mail with everything you have done okie?
[09:35] <troy_s> danke.
[09:35] <Who_> troy_s: but not before i'd choppe 5 screenshots into tiles of 270x54
[09:35] <Who_> which took a while :P
[09:36] <Who_> oops
[09:36] <troy_s> lol
[09:36] <troy_s> yah... i did that cropping and was completely in the dark
[09:36] <troy_s> it is pretty easy because once you learn it, it behaves the same in ALL of the tools.
[09:36] <troy_s> which is nice
[09:36] <Who_> I used repage but didn't add an offset...bad idea
[09:36] <troy_s> the only tricky one is the -tile doesn't tell you about tiling images :)
[09:36] <troy_s> it does on the expansive doc, but not the initial one for montage
[09:36] <Who_> troy_s: everything I have done today, or a while back
[09:37] <troy_s> Who_, how about a summary of what you are working towards?
[09:37] <troy_s> with links?
[09:37] <troy_s> or something akin to that?
[09:37] <troy_s> so that i haven't missed anything
[09:37] <troy_s> etc.
[09:37] <troy_s> plus all your new lovely legwork you are putting in of course.
[09:37] <Who_> troy_s: Okay, I will email you details for Bluman and Human, ok?
[09:37] <troy_s> sure.
[09:37] <troy_s> as i mailed, i am going to update so make sure it is in incoming somewhere
[09:38] <Who_> yea, it all is :)
[09:38] <troy_s> klepas has been busy with other matters and bersace is still on vacation
[09:38] <troy_s> incoming is very clogged.
[09:38] <troy_s> eek
[09:57] <Who_> troy_s: I can't find anyway (and I have read a lot of docs!) to use the input filename in the output - is it so obvious it doesn't say?
[09:58] <troy_s> what do you mean?>
[09:58] <troy_s> as in take a given image filename.png and change it to filename.png
[09:58] <troy_s> for batch?
[09:58] <troy_s> Who_?
[09:58] <Who_> well, in a single command using * with the input
[09:59] <troy_s> ahhh... try the label command somewhere.
[09:59] <Who_> using * in the output doesn't allow me to add
[09:59] <Who_> thanks
[09:59] <troy_s> and there are the blah: formats that seem to deal with that.
[09:59] <troy_s> you can put blah.jpg
[09:59] <troy_s> and it will number them all like blah-1.jpg
[09:59] <troy_s> etc.
[09:59] <troy_s> if you specifcy a single name, it will number them
[09:59] <Who_> yea, I want blah_<orig_filename>.png
[10:00] <Who_> which must be possible
[10:01] <Who_> convert eye.gif news.gif storm.gif  +adjoin  image_%d.gif was given as an example to do numbering, but6 substituting %f doesn't work
[10:11] <kwwii> re
[10:41] <imbrandon> troy_s: ping , it will be a few more hours on that page , i got caughtup doing something else , but it should still have an ETA of today sometime
[10:41] <imbrandon> anyhow i'm off to lunch , l8tr
[11:00] <mhb> good evening
[11:01] <imbrandon> ello
[11:10] <mhb> what's cooking, doc?
[11:32] <kwwii> how does one install java on ubuntu?
[11:34] <mhb> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Java
[11:34] <mhb> read that?
[11:39] <imbrandon> kwwii: sudo apt-get install sun-java5-jre
[11:39] <imbrandon> ;)
[11:40] <imbrandon> kwwii: just make sure you have multiverse and universe enabled , but i'm sure you do
[11:40] <mhb> imbrandon: why jre?
[11:40] <mhb> imbrandon: he doesn't need most of the stuff there
[11:40] <mhb> at least I think so  ...
[11:40] <imbrandon> mhb: thats the "java runtime enviroment" that pulls all the -bin and such
[11:41] <mhb> imbrandon: well I know
[11:41] <imbrandon> mhb no telling what he needs, he just asked, that will grab all the bits ;P
[11:41] <mhb> ok
[11:41] <mhb> maybe got a bit confused
[11:41] <mhb> imbrandon: I still think https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Java has the right answer
[11:42] <mhb> imbrandon: I always confuse the JRE and Java SDK
[11:42] <imbrandon> yea not the sdk just the jre ( runtime environment )
[11:43] <kwwii> imbrandon: yeah, I have them enabled, thanks for the info :-)
[11:43] <imbrandon> the wiki needs changed actualy
[11:43] <kwwii> imbrandon: I want to run batik
[11:43] <imbrandon> should grab the meta package -jre not -bin
[11:43] <imbrandon> kwwii: yea then that will work
[11:43] <kwwii> I could do it with the gnu java compiler too (I have done it before, at least) but it is much slower
[11:43] <kwwii> and much more buggy
[11:44] <imbrandon> after you insall it make sure and run " sudo configure-alternatives --java "
[11:44] <imbrandon> and pick sun so it uses it by defalt not the gnu one
[11:45] <kwwii> hehe, i will do this tomorrow...getting late here tonight (I woke up at 6 this morning)
[11:45] <imbrandon> sorry kwwii told you wrong , run " sudo update-alternatives --config java "
[11:46] <imbrandon> after intall to change the default java
[11:46] <imbrandon> heheh
[11:46] <kwwii> cool, that is probably the most important thing I would have missed
[11:46] <imbrandon> yea i was awake when you woke up and now i have already slept and woke again LOL
[11:48] <imbrandon> btw and dont use adept to get it , it breaks when it shows the lic agreement
[11:48] <imbrandon> use aptittude or apt
[11:48] <imbrandon> ;)
[11:48] <kwwii> hehe, good to know as well
[11:48] <kwwii> never tried aptittude
[11:49] <kwwii> when I started I was using dpkg :p
[11:49] <kwwii> I was used to yast, and all the things you can do on the console with it
[11:59] <imbrandon> yea " yast --install <blah> or sudo yast2 & " is about my total yast exp, though i would like to see sax2 in ubuntu
[11:59] <imbrandon> hrm maybe i'll package it later ;)
[12:01] <kwwii> hehe
[12:01] <kwwii> good luck
[12:01] <imbrandon> it would take a week on this 800mhz iBook LOL
[12:01] <kwwii> and if you figure out how, let me know :p
[12:02] <imbrandon> well i got kde3 compiled and running on osx
[12:02] <imbrandon> wasent TOOO hard
[12:02] <kwwii> yeah, I have actually done it before as well (still have a running system on this OSX)
[12:02] <kwwii> but kde4 should be something a bit harder I guess
[12:03] <imbrandon> yea probably but kde4 is SUPOSE to be more osx / windows friendly
[12:03] <imbrandon> lol SUPOSE to be
[12:04] <imbrandon> might be esier just to do it with fink but the fink packages are so dated
[12:04] <imbrandon> would be nice to have a non-X11 inkscape or krita though