[12:08] <tseng> oh, that lock?
[12:08] <tseng> why bother with that
[12:09] <LaserJock> I'm sure nobody has ever made a lock icon before
[12:09] <tseng> s'what im saying
[12:10] <_ion> That's the first lock i've ever seen. Do locks exist?
[12:13] <bluefoxicy> It's the ugliest lock I've ever seen :/
[12:13] <bluefoxicy> and I have no idea how to make it prettier.
[12:14] <LaserJock> steal somebody else's
[12:14] <bluefoxicy> isn't that a copyright issue
[12:15] <LaserJock> only if they don't want you to
[12:15] <LaserJock> if it's an open source icon, then have at it
[12:15] <micahcowan> what's a "lock"? a pidfile?
[12:16] <bluefoxicy> micahcowan:  I was trying to figure an indicator out for when security problems are detected
[12:16] <micahcowan> hah! nice!
[12:16] <bluefoxicy> specifically something to flash in the notification area when stack smash protection is triggered or something.  "Oh holy crap, buffer overflows!"
[12:18] <LaserJock> you need an icon for that?
[12:18] <LaserJock> how about flashing a blue screen?
[12:18] <LaserJock> ;-)
[12:18] <bluefoxicy> LaserJock:  Perhaps.  I'm not quite sure yet, I've been brainstorming stuff based on pitti's AutomatedProblemReports spec
[12:18] <_ion> Ubuntu needs a brown screen of death.
[12:18] <LaserJock> YES
[12:19] <bluefoxicy> brown screen of death?
[12:19] <bluefoxicy> "Hi.  Ubuntu has shit all over itself, sorry."
[12:19] <bluefoxicy> I'll chalk that right up there with calling the Edgy milestones "Knots"
[12:21] <bluefoxicy> LaserJock:  I'm far too amused by that spec, btw.  Mostly because I'm trying to figure a way to categorize and prioritize various indicators of security vulnerabilities from crash data, rather than just splatter a big blob of "here's every segfault and such that every user's experienced in these apps" all over the dev table :>  It's got me more excited than is healthy.
[12:21] <LaserJock> good for you :-)
[12:22] <LaserJock> it does seem like things like that could be a bit more descriptive
[12:23] <_ion> "Problem 0x6f095e28 detected at 0xf181bcf5. Send report* to Canonical? [Yes]  [Yes]  *) Report may include personal information about you."
[12:23] <bluefoxicy> well with Edgy doing stack smash protection it's no problem to look at death by __stack_chk_fail() and say it's a stack smash.  That was what I started with :)
[12:24] <bluefoxicy> _ion:  lol
[12:25] <LaserJock> _ion: yeah, at least we could do "Your computer has just roasted itself. If you want any hope for help please send this to ..."
[12:28] <_ion> Has anyone noticed that the recipient's phone number is printed in a scientific format (3,5844912765e+011) on the Shipit envelope? :-)
[12:29] <bluefoxicy> I am thinking more along the lines of something that asks the user if it can automatically and silently send non-sensitive information (i.e. omit stack dumps, command line, environment, core dump) and allows sending other information later; or allows the user to let it always alert him upfront
[12:29] <bluefoxicy> or of course just goes away and does nothing.
[12:30] <LaserJock> _ion: really?
[12:30] <bluefoxicy> I'm not sure what pitti has in mind UI-wise.
[12:30] <_ion> laserjock: That example number was from the envelope i received, with some digits changed to protect the innocent. :-)
[12:30] <Enverex> I'm trying to package an app but it tries to write outside of $PREFIX and fails. Is there any easy way around this?
[12:32] <LaserJock> _ion: weird
[12:33] <_ion> Apparently someone decided to store phone numbers in a numeric variable.
[12:33] <LaserJock> Enverex: can you pastebin the failure?
[12:33] <Enverex> Sure, 1 sec
[12:37] <Enverex> LaserJock, http://pastebin.ca/95332
[12:37] <bluefoxicy> wow, tango looks a lot nicer than tangerine
[12:38] <Enverex> I'd also like to get somone to check one of my other packages I've submitted to make sure I'm not doing anything too stupid, else if I go making any more packages I'll have to remake them again, heh
[12:38] <_ion> bluefoxicy: I respectfully disagree.
[12:38] <bluefoxicy> _ion:  you must like orange a lot then
[12:40] <_ion> bluefoxicy: I've got enough of the blue color themes that have been used since, uh, 80's or so. :-)
[12:40] <bluefoxicy> _ion:  blue is pleasant to the eye :p  Ubuntu has got to have the ugliest default theme I've ever seen.
[12:40] <_ion> Tangerine sits very naturally with the Human Gtk theme.
[12:40] <_ion> I love it. :-)
[12:41] <LaserJock> Enverex: hmm, I don't know. I'd make sure that the Makefile isn't doing something funny and that debian/rules is right
[12:41] <LaserJock> Enverex: if you need to create a dir you can use the dirs file
[12:42] <LaserJock> ok guys, I really must work.
[12:43] <bluefoxicy> _ion:  they could have used some creative usage of varied shades of green/blue instead of going all brown or all orange.
[12:43] <Enverex> This is getting beyond a joke
[12:43] <Enverex> dropping every 10 minutes
[12:44] <_ion> Always with the green and blue, argh.
[12:44] <Laser_away> bluefoxicy: I like the brown and orange, I also like blue and green
[12:44] <Laser_away> it could be purple for all I care :-)
[12:44] <bluefoxicy> _ion: there's a psychological method behind it.
[12:44] <Laser_away> as long as it has ponies on the desktop I'm fine ;-)
[12:44] <bluefoxicy> hahaha
[12:46] <Enverex> Laser_away,
[12:46] <Enverex>     if test -z "$prefix"; then
[12:46] <Enverex>         prefix="/usr/local"
[12:46] <Enverex>     fi
[12:46] <Enverex> That's the only reference I can find to it
[12:46] <Enverex> (it's in configure)
[12:47] <Laser_away> hmm, maybe something is hard coded
[12:48] <Laser_away> or maybe it's right, I can't think anymore
[12:48] <Laser_away> ugg, I just found an 84KB .emacs file on the web.
[12:48] <Enverex> :( Ubuntu is missing some apps I really want/need so I'm trying to package them myself, heh (E-UAE, UADE, etc)
[12:49] <Laser_away> Enverex: don't worry, stick with it. It will work out.
[12:49] <Enverex> oh, Audatious (it's like XMMS but not shit)
[12:49] <Laser_away> Enverex: I'm just not any help right now
[12:49] <Enverex> audacious rather
[12:51] <Enverex> Kinda got bored with packaging after spending an entire day working out how and kinda not doing too well, heh
[12:53] <Enverex> GRRr and UADE crashes on songend with XMMS
[01:08] <Enverex> Anyone here that can help with a package?
[01:16] <Enverex> *pokes the channel with a stick*
[01:16] <Enverex> ack, SexyPSF is missing too
[01:33] <Laser_away> Enverex: don't give up you'll get it
[01:33] <Enverex> Lots of effort for little to no reward
[01:33] <Laser_away> Enverex:  you might need to do something else for a little bit and come back to it latter when somebody can spend some time on it
[01:34] <Laser_away> Enverex: it's proabably fairly close
[01:34] <Laser_away> you just need to get that last little bit and then the whole world with thank you :-)
[01:35] <Enverex> This is like the third day I've been in here trying to get help
[01:35] <tseng> most of us have real jobs / school
[01:35] <Enverex> So do I heh, that's why I can't afford to spend 12 hours making a package
[01:36] <Laser_away> Enverex: it took me about 3 weeks to do my first one
[01:36] <tseng> it doesnt take me 12 hours to make a package
[01:36] <tseng> it takes 1
[01:36] <Laser_away> just do it off and on
[01:36] <tseng> so, there is a hump to get over
[01:36] <Laser_away> you'll get the hang of it
[01:37] <Laser_away> Enverex: still stuck on the "installing to the wrong path" issue?
[01:37] <Enverex> Yup
[01:40] <Enverex> If something wants "gtk-config" what package is that likely to be part of?
[01:40] <Laser_away> Enverex: can you pastebin your debian/rules file for me?
[01:41] <Enverex> It's the default one Laser_away, if you still want it
[01:41] <Laser_away> yeah
[01:42] <Laser_away> Enverex: did you try creating the dir?
[01:42] <Enverex> http://pastebin.ca/95390
[01:43] <Enverex> No...  I didn't think that would work as I thought everything had to be within $PREFIX for it to work
[01:44] <Laser_away> Enverex: have you built the program from source before?
[01:44] <Enverex> Yup, I have it installed now from source (but not before I tried making that)
[01:44] <Laser_away> Enverex: does it have DESTDIR in the makefile somewhere?
[01:45] <Laser_away> the basic problem seems to be that it isn't respecting the PREFIX
[01:46] <LaserJock> apparently I'm not so away
[01:46] <Enverex> It doesn't have DESTDIR anywhere in the makefile, no
[01:47] <LaserJock> grep for "/usr/share/uade2/players" in the source dir
[01:48] <LaserJock> or at least "players"
[01:48] <Enverex> Nothing
[01:49] <LaserJock> are you packaging 2.02?
[01:50] <Enverex> yeah
[01:52] <LaserJock> Enverex: ok, here's what I did
[01:52] <LaserJock> I grabbed the source
[01:52] <LaserJock> greped for "players"
[01:52] <LaserJock> got a hit on Makefile.in
[01:53] <LaserJock> mkdir -p "$(DATADIR)/players"
[01:53] <LaserJock> which is the problem line
[01:53] <LaserJock> so then I grep for DATADIR
[01:53] <LaserJock> and I get
[01:54] <Enverex> Weird, "grep "players" ./" got nothing for me
[01:54] <LaserJock> I did grep "players" *
[01:55] <Enverex> I missed -f out, heh
[01:56] <LaserJock> I think I'd grep around and see how DATADIR is getting set
[01:57] <LaserJock> and see what you need to set to fix it
[01:57] <Enverex> Is it ok to manually edit the makefile to make it work my way then?
[01:57] <LaserJock> well, I don't think you'll need to
[01:58] <LaserJock> I think your basic problem is in debian/rules
[01:58] <LaserJock> you set --prefix=/usr
[01:58] <LaserJock> when you ./configure
[01:59] <Enverex> All I see for DATADIR is "Makefile.in:DATADIR = {PACKAGEPREFIX}{DATADIR}"
[01:59] <LaserJock> then latter on form make install you do prefix=$(CURDIR)/debian/uade/usr
[01:59] <LaserJock> that's not all
[01:59] <Enverex> Well, where it's set
[02:00] <Kyral> Hey guys, random question
[02:01] <Kyral> Does Membership ever expire?
[02:01] <LaserJock> hmm, membership I'm not sure. MOTU lasts 2 years
[02:01] <Kyral> I think I read someplace that it does
[02:01] <Kyral> I'm kinda worried now lol
[02:02] <LaserJock> Enverex: basically you need to figure out how to get it to install to an arbitrary directory
[02:02] <Kyral> I've backed off bigtime....but does still helping in #ubuntu and #kubuntu still merit Membership....
[02:02] <LaserJock> sure
[02:02] <LaserJock> I guess
[02:02] <Enverex> LaserJock, What if it's just not a sane makefile and tries to install outside of $PREFIX anyway?
[02:03] <Kyral> I mean I've been more active with the Free Software community at large....so I guess that indirectly counts as helping Ubuntu lol
[02:03] <LaserJock> Enverex: PACKAGEPREFIX looks like a winner
[02:03] <Enverex> configure:    -e "s|{PACKAGEPREFIX}|$packageprefix|g" \
[02:04] <Kyral> anyway -ERANDOMNESS
[02:04] <Enverex> hmm, that's the only instance where it's not just called
[02:04] <LaserJock> exactly, so set it it instead of PREFIX
[02:04] <Enverex> ah
[02:05] <Enverex> So I DO need to edit the makefile, or do you mean in rules or something?
[02:05] <LaserJock> rules
[02:05] <Kyral> Watch out soon you guys might be packaging software I wrote lol
[02:05] <Enverex> LaserJock, : how exactly? heh
[02:09] <LaserJock> Enverex: check out ./configure --help
[02:13] <LaserJock> I think you might need to set --prefix=/usr and --package-prefix=$(CURDIR)/debian/uade/usr
[02:13] <LaserJock> I mean --package-prefix=$(CURDIR)/debian/uade
[02:14] <LaserJock> normally that is DESTDIR
[02:16] <LaserJock> Kyral: your membership expires 2007-05-09
[02:16] <LaserJock> according to https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntumembers/+members
[02:16] <Kyral> How'd you find that out?
[02:16] <Kyral> ah
[02:16] <LaserJock> no sorry, it's 2007-12-05
[02:16] <LaserJock> 2 year, I think
[02:19] <Enverex> Ok, thanks LaserJock
[02:20] <LaserJock> hmm, well there went my day :-)
[02:20] <LaserJock> I hope it goes well. Packaging can be one of the most enjoyable and most frustrating things
[02:25] <crimsun> Kyral: assisting in irc certainly merits continued membership.
[03:27] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:28] <bddebian> Heya Laser
[03:28] <bddebian> Err LaserJock
[03:28] <LaserJock> hi bddebian
[03:30] <LaserJock> bddebian: I was going to say, have you seen the latest comment on the scilab new release bug?
[03:34] <bddebian> In LP or on Debian BTS?
[03:36] <LaserJock> Debian
[03:37] <LaserJock> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=271364
[03:37] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 271364 in wnpp "Subject: RFH: scilab -- Matrix-based scientific software package (a la Matlab and Xmath)" [Normal,Open] 
[03:38] <crimsun> that's all you, LaserJock/bddebian
[03:39] <LaserJock> well it's kinda dumb really
[03:39] <imbrandon> LaserJock: did you have to install xcode for fink ?
[03:39] <LaserJock> there are like 3 or 4  people it seems who are packaging Scilab 4.0 in some form or another but nothing has been uploaded
[03:39] <LaserJock> imbrandon: yes
[03:40] <imbrandon> LaserJock: hrm ok thanks
[03:40] <LaserJock> imbrandon: The OS X dvd has it all
[03:40] <LaserJock> although that might be getting old now
[03:40] <imbrandon> LaserJock: btw wanna get on the recording tomarrow sometime ( afternoon ) about motu school and other misc stuff
[03:41] <imbrandon> LaserJock: i'm just downloading it ( i installed osx 10.4 from cd )
[03:42] <LaserJock> imbrandon: you want what? I didn't catch the first part of your sentence
[03:42] <imbrandon> podcast ;)
[03:42] <LaserJock> oh cool, who are you interviewing?
[03:43] <bddebian> LaserJock: I'm not holding my breath anymore :-)
[03:43] <LaserJock> bddebian: yeah
[03:43] <imbrandon> no one really , but we were gonna talk about the new ubuntu classroom and easier motuing
[03:43] <LaserJock> cool
[03:43] <imbrandon> heya bddebian
[03:43] <LaserJock> imbrandon: round table disscussion?
[03:44] <imbrandon> yup
[03:44] <bddebian> Heya imbrandon
[03:44] <imbrandon> well thats the intended format
[03:44] <imbrandon> ;)
[03:44] <LaserJock> imbrandon: oh, and you want me to hop on?
[03:44] <LaserJock> geeze I'm thick tonight
[03:45] <crimsun> who all's in the pot so far?
[03:45] <imbrandon> sure, thats what i was intending ( i extened an invite to you but kinda worded it wrong )
[03:45] <crimsun> all're, rather
[03:45] <bddebian> Damnit, I don't know what to do with my hamlib changes
[03:46] <crimsun> commit them?
[03:46] <imbrandon> crimsun: for the podcast? just me and nixternal ( and LaserJock ? ) wanna join for some fun ? heheh
[03:46] <bddebian> crimsun: I don't know if they are correct
[03:46] <crimsun> bddebian: URL?
[03:46] <bddebian> I haven't put them anywhere
[03:47] <bddebian> What would you want to see?  The big 3?
[03:47] <crimsun> you mentioned not knowing what to do with your hamlib changes
[03:48] <bddebian> Aye, I am saying, what files would you want to see?  Just a debdiff?
[03:48] <crimsun> is this a merge?
[03:49] <tseng> hamburglar?
[03:49] <bddebian> tseng: :-)
[03:49] <tseng> i just had one
[03:49] <bddebian> crimsun: No, it FTBFSs because of python2.3 so I tried to make it comply to the new python policy
[03:52] <bddebian> It builds OK now but I'm not sure that stuff should actually end up in /usr/lib/python-support/site-packages now?
[03:55] <crimsun> yes
[03:55] <crimsun> (since you use python-support)
[03:55] <crimsun> python-support then takes care of b-c for python2.x
[03:57] <bddebian> OK cool, then should I upload to Ubuntu or send to BTS and wait?
[03:58] <crimsun> bts.
[03:58] <crimsun> syncs++
[03:58] <bddebian> Somehow I knew you'd say that :-)
[03:59] <Fujitsu> Heheh.
[04:04] <LaserJock> bddebian: is there are reason you are using python-support rather than python-central
[04:04] <bddebian> Nope, does it matter?
[04:04] <crimsun> no, it doesn't at all matter.
[04:05] <LaserJock> well, it seemed to me with python-central you didn't have to change much of anything
[04:05] <LaserJock> but maybe that's just with my packages
[04:05] <crimsun> you should have to change much w/ either
[04:05] <bddebian> I didn't have to change much for python-support either
[04:05] <crimsun> shouldn't ^
[04:05] <LaserJock> well, with python-support you have to change the install location, right?
[04:06] <crimsun> yes
[04:09] <LaserJock> I need to update my debian packages
[04:09] <LaserJock> is generally ok to have a different person sponsor an upload in Debian?
[04:10] <crimsun> different from...?
[04:10] <LaserJock> well, I initially had ChrisH upload a package
[04:10] <LaserJock> but azeem did the other one
[04:11] <LaserJock> I haven't talked with ChrisH since then so I'm wondering if I could just have azeem sponsor both
[04:11] <crimsun> I see no reason to hold hard and fast, but it's a matter of respect (and time, ...)
[04:11] <bddebian> Ack, which reminds me I have got to get on colorgcc
[04:16] <bddebian> Hmm, do I steal the wxmaxima merge..
[04:17] <LaserJock> from who?
[04:17] <bddebian> Loic
[04:17] <LaserJock> well, I doubt he'd mind
[04:19] <crimsun> he hasn't been active lately (probably very busy), so I'd go ahead.
[04:20] <bddebian> OK
[04:53] <bddebian> Heya Hobbsee
[04:53] <Hobbsee> morning all!
[04:55] <lukaswayne9> Hey, I've had this package in the REVU for quite a while, I just need one more advocate.  Could someone take a look at it?  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2760
[04:56] <lukaswayne9> ditto with http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2758
[04:56] <bddebian> lukaswayne9: If stellarium ever finishes building I'll try to take a look
[04:56] <lukaswayne9> alright, cool thanks
[04:57] <ajmitch> hi
[04:57] <Hobbsee> hi bddebian :)
[04:57] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[04:57] <Hobbsee> hi ajmitch
[05:01] <lukaswayne9> hey everyone
[05:20] <lukaswayne9> bddebian: ever finish compiling?
[05:22] <bddebian> lukaswayne9: Trying fceu-server now
[05:22] <lukaswayne9> cool
[05:26] <tritium> Wow, Thilo-Six invaded my Inbox :)
[05:26] <bddebian> heh
[05:27] <tritium> hi bddebian
[05:28] <bddebian> Heya tritium
[05:34] <carthik> I wonder if the gtk2 version of gnucash, gnucash 2.0.0 will make it into Egdy...
[05:34] <ajmitch> it may
[05:35] <ajmitch> considering that it's in debian unstable
[05:35] <ajmitch> though it has an RC bug open
[05:35] <carthik> Cool. Thanks, ajmitch.
[05:35] <bddebian> I wonder why spim isn't on any merge lists?
[05:36] <bddebian> lukaswayne9: advocated both
[05:37] <ajmitch> I suppose I should ask for a pyflakes sync as well
[05:38] <bddebian> Yeah ajmitch, get to work :-)
[05:39] <lukaswayne9> bddebian: thanks! so what now?  how do they get into universe?
[05:39] <bddebian> They get uploaded :-)
[05:39] <lukaswayne9> bddebian: cool!
[05:41] <lukaswayne9> when?  is it like a script or something? or what?
[05:42] <lukaswayne9> not to be impatient, i'm just curious on how it all works
[05:43] <bddebian> lukaswayne9: To be honest I am not sure.  If they don't get picked up, I'll upload them
[05:43] <lukaswayne9> alright! thanks a lot!
[05:43] <bddebian> Oh, spim is a multiverse package, haven't looked at those merge pages :-(
[05:46] <bddebian> Egads, axiom is 40Mb :-(
[05:51] <bddebian> xfree86-common.. WTF?
[06:55] <HorD> hola
[06:56] <HorD> alguien abla en espaol?
[06:56] <HorD> no?
[06:56] <HorD> gueno..
[06:57] <tritium> HorD: no aqui.  /j #ubuntu-es
[07:04] <HorD> me voy.....
[07:04] <HorD> oka!
[07:04] <HorD> gracias tritium!
[07:04] <HorD> chao
[07:04] <tritium> de nada
[07:08] <Kamping_Kaiser> greetings motu land
[07:08] <ajmitch> hi
[07:08] <Kamping_Kaiser> :)
[07:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> do debs support multiple dependancies then an or? (if $this  and $that ; then ok to install || $other and $else; then ok to install)
[07:57] <crimsun> the associativity isn't clear, could you parenthesise?
[07:58] <crimsun> what does 'multiple dependencies' refer to?
[07:58] <crimsun> there's the concept of Provides, which is what I /think/ you mean.
[07:59] <Kamping_Kaiser> say a deb that supports kde+gnome, it can *either* depend on qt+kdelib, *or* gtk+gnomelib, so if it needs to install it looks for one combo of the depends
[07:59] <crimsun> for instance, if a package Depends on "exim | mail-transport-agent", then if you have postfix installed you're fine.
[07:59] <crimsun> (since postfix Provides mail-transport-agent)
[08:00] <crimsun> it reads as if you're looking at Provides, yes.
[08:01] <Toadstool> good morning everybody
[08:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> ok, i suspect i'll get to them later in the docs, it was just a question that occured to me
[08:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi Toadstool :)
[08:01] <Toadstool> hey Kamping_Kaiser
[08:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> gday
[08:14] <Hobbsee> hi all
[08:14] <ajmitch> hi
[08:14] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: care to give me a list of packages on REVU that you've uploaded & can be archived?
[08:15] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: ah...yeah?  edgy-changes would be the most effective
[08:15] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: or do you want me to write you a list?
[08:15] <ajmitch> a list would be nicer
[08:15] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: checkinstall, knights
[08:16] <Hobbsee> kommando
[08:16] <Toadstool> heya ajmitch & Hobbsee
[08:16] <Hobbsee> kbiff, kdiff3
[08:16] <Hobbsee> kprof keurocalc
[08:16] <Hobbsee> nip2, kid3
[08:16] <Hobbsee> amarok aasaver ktorrent
[08:16] <Hobbsee> ndiswrapper, egoboo, enigma knmap
[08:17] <Hobbsee> ksudoku kdbg
[08:17] <Hobbsee> kbarcode, komba2,
[08:18] <Hobbsee> kwave, ksensors, ksynaptics, kxml*
[08:18] <ajmitch> have you uploaded *all* the ones on REVU under your name?
[08:18] <Hobbsee> kvdr, klogic
[08:19] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: not quite
[08:19] <Hobbsee> and kcemirror
[08:19] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: that's all :)
[08:19] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: there's one that FTBFS, and a few that i had a go at, but need to be examined by other people
[08:39] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Which one fails?
[08:39] <Hobbsee> StevenK: kover
[08:39] <StevenK> I don't feel like reading through main bugs and I don't feel like hacking on Rails. Packaging sounds good.
[08:39] <StevenK> Hobbsee: It's on REVU
[08:39] <StevenK> ?
[08:39] <Hobbsee> StevenK: yeah, it's also at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/kover/1:2.9.6-3ubuntu1
[08:40] <StevenK> Ah, it's been uploaded.
[08:40] <Hobbsee> StevenK: http://librarian.launchpad.net/3503886/buildlog_ubuntu-edgy-i386.kover_1%3A2.9.6-3ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz was the build log
[08:40] <Hobbsee> StevenK: yeah, it got uploaded, then failed to build on the buildds.
[08:41] <StevenK> With that error, it should have failed to build for you, too.
[08:41] <Hobbsee> StevenK: it didnt.
[08:41] <Hobbsee> StevenK: i dont know why, but it definetly built and installed fine, otherwise i wouldnt have asked someone to upload it.
[08:41] <StevenK> Actually, it isn't your fault.
[08:42] <StevenK> /usr/include/linux/byteorder/little_endian.h:43: error: '__le64' does not name a type
[08:42] <StevenK> I suspect it's linux-kernel-headers which is broken.
[08:42] <Hobbsee> yeah, i can tell it's not a packaging error - i just dont know why it failed
[08:42] <Hobbsee> ah
[08:51] <StevenK> Oh, yuck!
[08:51] <ajmitch> StevenK: ?
[08:51] <Arbiter> hi *
[08:51] <StevenK> It's DBS
[08:51] <Toadstool> Fujitsu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates <-- :)
[08:51] <Fujitsu> Aha. Thanks, Toadstool.
[08:54] <Hobbsee> hi LaserJock
[08:54] <ajmitch> hello LaserJock
[08:54] <LaserJock> hi
[09:00] <LaserJock> hmm, I need to get thilosix to chill out on the bug commentary a bit
[09:01] <Arbiter> thilosix?
[09:01] <LaserJock> yeah
[09:02] <LaserJock> I had him go through the MOTU Science bugs today
[09:02] <LaserJock> but i got into renaming bugs and mailing launchpad-users
[09:02] <LaserJock> must have had a fair amount of time on his hands
[09:02] <Arbiter> LaserJock, have you reviewed agave?
[09:02] <Arbiter> :)
[09:03] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Reproducible.
[09:03] <Hobbsee> StevenK: yeah darn, okay.
[09:03] <LaserJock> it looked pretty good from a quick glance
[09:03] <Arbiter> LaserJock, it's almost the same as colorscheme
[09:03] <LaserJock> I haven't had a chance to build, etc.
[09:03] <Arbiter> except for the patch
[09:03] <StevenK> static __inline__ __le64 __cpu_to_le64p(const __u64 *p)
[09:03] <Arbiter> and different package name in debian/{control,copyright}
[09:03] <Arbiter> and debian/changelog
[09:05] <StevenK> Okay, I am confused now.
[09:05] <nixternal> g'nite
[09:09] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, I can't stand his renaming thing... `Confirmed | such-and-such', `User hasn't responded since X | such-and-such'...
[09:10] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: sorry about that
[09:10] <Fujitsu> LaserJock, it's incredibly annoying :P
[09:10] <LaserJock> I just intended for him to confirms bugs and normal triage stuff
[09:11] <Fujitsu> He's done that... as well as destroying every bug he's touched.
[09:11] <Fujitsu> But, at least he's triaging :)
[09:12] <LaserJock> well, I think he is
[09:13] <LaserJock> it's hard to tell what exactly he's doing
[09:14] <Fujitsu> Yeah, in the middle of the whole turning the title field into a comment/status field, and the description field into an extended ASCII-art-containing status container.
[09:15] <LaserJock> hehe
[09:15] <Fujitsu> ** Description changed:
[09:15] <Fujitsu> + [09:15] <Fujitsu> + Bug Status 21st July '06 by T. Six:
[09:15] <Fujitsu> + Fix in Ubuntu package has been released
[09:15] <Fujitsu> + Bug has been reported upstream (Debian), upstream hasnt answered yet.
[09:15] <Fujitsu> + [09:15] <Fujitsu> +
[09:15] <Fujitsu> THAT.
[09:15] <Fujitsu> IS.
[09:15] <Fujitsu> Not good.
[09:18] <Fujitsu> I would go around and reverse all of those changes... But that would spam everybody again.
[09:18] <Hobbsee> oh gosh.
[09:19] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: yeah, I'm not sure what to do
[09:19] <LaserJock> I don't want to spam everybody again
[09:19] <LaserJock> but it's made it a bit difficult
[09:19] <LaserJock> I guess I'll email him and try to get him straightened out a bit so he doesn't do it more
[09:21] <Fujitsu> Yeah, this has made a lot of bugs rather unmanageable... We ideally need to get them modified to their original states without spamming the entire world... Anybody with access to Launchpad's Postgres? :P
[09:22] <StevenK> Heh, who knew Launchpad used postgres.
[09:22] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: I can try to do that tommorow
[09:22] <Fujitsu> StevenK, I'm pretty sure it does.
[09:23] <LaserJock> hmm, it's kinda hard to say "Stop it" in a polite way
[09:24] <Fujitsu> Yeah.
[09:24] <Fujitsu> However, he's used to being told to `stop it' unpolitely.
[09:24] <Fujitsu> He's known by everyone on ubuntu-users... as an annoying person.
[09:25] <LaserJock> oh, I see
[09:25] <LaserJock> I've only run into him a couple times, long ago
[09:26] <Fujitsu> He always signs his messages with `\n\n bye Thilo'... I've seen a HUGE number of his messages.
[09:28] <LaserJock> ok, email sent
[09:28] <LaserJock> tommorow I'll ask about reverting changes if possible
[09:30] <Laser_away> Fujitsu: thanks for the heads up ;-)
[09:31] <Fujitsu> Thanks, Laser_away... It should be fairly easy for a Launchpad-person to quickly revert the title/description changes.
[09:31] <Fujitsu> Hi, Gloubiboulga.
[09:31] <Gloubiboulga> hi Fujitsu, hi all
[09:32] <Hobbsee> hi Gloubiboulga
[09:39] <Fujitsu> If upstream provides a Debian package, should it be used/modified rather than creating an entirely new one?
[09:39] <cypher1> is it the community or specific people who builds big packages like opera, gnome etc ?
[09:40] <cypher1> i meant specific people in the communtiy ;) as we are all part of ubuntu community
[09:42] <Gloubiboulga> the opera packages are not built by the community, since the sources are closed
[09:43] <cypher1> ok
[09:44] <Gloubiboulga> gnome is maintained by 2 persons in ubuntu :)
[09:44] <Gloubiboulga> but anyone can provide patches/fixes
[09:44] <Toadstool> heya Gloubiboulga
[09:44] <Gloubiboulga> hi Toadstool
[09:44] <cypher1> Gloubiboulga, thanks :)
[09:45] <Fujitsu> Can anybody answer my question>
[09:45] <Toadstool> Fujitsu: it depends on how good upstream packaging is and usually it's quite bad :)
[09:45] <Fujitsu> Aha.
[09:45] <Fujitsu> OK.
[09:45] <Fujitsu> I'll check, then.
[09:46] <Gloubiboulga> + upstream usually doesn't provide a source package
[09:46] <Toadstool> yep
[09:46] <Fujitsu> They do in this case. They provide a repository, and I'm currently grabbing the package.
[09:55] <ajmitch> upstream isn't _always_ useless with source packages
[10:05] <Fujitsu> Arbiter, AMD-drivers, you mean :P
[10:06] <Arbiter> ati ati
[10:06] <Arbiter> pff this crap just doesn't work well
[10:06] <Arbiter> i have lots of problems rendering 3d scenes
[10:07] <Arbiter> it's simple: rendering freezes for about 450ms every 5-6 seconds
[10:07] <Arbiter> it's annoying
[10:11] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: just fix it then :)
[10:11] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: i dont know how then - i cant figure out why it works better in dapper than edgy.
[10:11] <ajmitch> is it the build-deps that's giving you problems
[10:11] <ajmitch> explain what 'works better' means
[10:12] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: has a higher framerate, making the game actually playable.
[10:12] <ajmitch> ok..
[10:12] <Hobbsee> it's really slow and chuggy on edgy here, and i'm not sure why - ie which packages are missing, etc
[10:12] <ajmitch> i810 drivers?
[10:13] <Hobbsee> i think so
[10:13] <Arbiter> Hobbsee, yeah i'm having GL problems too
[10:13] <ajmitch> then I doubt it's the package, but mesa
[10:13] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: ah...so that's what mesa is - what's the fix?
[10:13] <ajmitch> I've seen others with that problem, and opengl-using apps complain on edgy here as well
[10:13] <ajmitch> you wait for it to be fixed
[10:14] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: right, okay.  hmm, these have weird dependancies.
[10:15] <ajmitch> unless you really want to dive into the mesa code
[10:16] <Hobbsee> hmmm...true
[10:17] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: i'd like it to just work (tm) kthnksbye!  :P
[10:19] <Arbiter> hm... gentoo has mesa 6.5
[10:19] <Arbiter> why not bump our packages?
[10:19] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: sure, go do it
[10:19] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: you're the core dev, you go fix it.
[10:20] <Hobbsee> of course, i'm sure StevenK would like to fix it :)
[10:20] <ajmitch> mesa in debian has 671 bugs against it
[10:20] <Hobbsee> holy sugar!  that's a lot.
[10:20] <ajmitch> '* The "-O666 -fwater-c00ling -DBE_F4ST" release'
[10:20] <Arbiter> only 4 bugs in gentoo :P
[10:21] <Arbiter> maybe gentoo devs have made some patches?
[10:21] <ajmitch> perhaps that shows how many people use gentoo?
[10:22] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: yep :P
[10:22] <Arbiter> ajmitch, pfff :P
[10:22] <Hobbsee> Arbiter: go and fix it.
[10:22] <Arbiter> Hobbsee, i'm not code-dev :P
[10:22] <Arbiter> *core
[10:26] <Hobbsee> Arbiter: do you need to be?  if the patches are good, they'll be accepted
[10:26] <Arbiter> i don't have the time to test such things :)
[10:27] <Hobbsee> Arbiter: bleh.
[10:28] <Arbiter> :P
[10:30] <Arbiter> Hobbsee, uhm... does the ati GL impl use mesa?
[10:30] <ajmitch> Arbiter: you probably have a different problem
[10:31] <Arbiter> ajmitch, maybe
[10:31] <Arbiter> i have render freeze every 6-7 secs
[10:31] <Arbiter> *freezes*
[10:31] <Hobbsee> Arbiter: no idea, i dont deal in X :P
[10:31] <Arbiter> ajmitch, but this problem appeared only few days ago in edgy
[10:31] <Hobbsee> probably a good thing, too
[10:32] <Arbiter> Hobbsee, ;)
[10:41] <phanatic> morning
[10:42] <Hobbsee> hi phanatic
[10:42] <phanatic> hey Hobbsee
[10:42] <phanatic> Hobbsee: had a great party yesterday? ;)
[10:42] <Hobbsee> phanatic: you mean today?  yep :)
[10:43] <Hobbsee> phanatic: and i've discovered the mess that is mesa, so i've had a good day :)
[10:43] <Hobbsee> the girls took me shopping and out for pizza :)
[10:43] <phanatic> oh, my... timezones are not my friends :)
[10:43] <phanatic> that's great!
[10:43] <Hobbsee> hehe
[10:44] <phanatic> so it was not an all day bugfixing party then :)
[10:44] <Hobbsee> phanatic: yes, it would have been much better to declare the world as flat, and everyone at the same time
[10:44] <Hobbsee> phanatic: hah, no.  note, i said "the girls"
[10:44] <phanatic> yeah, noticed ;)
[10:45] <Hobbsee> which usually doesnt mean "bugfixers"
[10:45] <ajmitch> it can...
[10:45] <Arbiter> Gloubiboulga, are you here?
[10:45] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: sure it can...but..
[10:46] <Gloubiboulga> Arbiter, yes
[10:46] <phanatic> Hobbsee: :)
[10:46] <Hobbsee> phanatic: :P
[10:46] <phanatic> hey Gloubiboulga
[10:46] <Gloubiboulga> hello phanatic :)
[10:47] <Arbiter> Gloubiboulga, do you want to review my updated colorscheme package? (new upstream release, new upstream program name and gcc 4.1 patch)
[10:47] <Arbiter> :)
[10:47] <Gloubiboulga> Arbiter, not now, but I'll do it today
[10:47] <phanatic> heh, my karma gets more and more every day without doing anything...
[10:47] <Arbiter> Gloubiboulga, thanks a lot
[10:47] <Gloubiboulga> Arbiter, what's the new name ?
[10:48] <Arbiter> agave
[10:48] <Gloubiboulga> ok
[10:48] <Arbiter> heh i need to redo all the package process thanks to it's upstream author :p
[10:48] <ajmitch> phanatic: quite strange
[10:49] <Arbiter> phanatic, mine too :p
[10:49] <ajmitch> phanatic: they must be doing adjustments again, mine has shot up to over 5x what it was a week ago
[10:49] <phanatic> ajmitch: indeed
[10:51] <cypher1> why does gpg says "secret key not available" during debuild -S while i had already done "gpg --key-gen" ??
[10:52] <Fujitsu> ajmitch, mine is 5 times what it was yesterday.
[10:52] <Hobbsee> cypher1: did you specify the -kyourkeyid?
[10:52] <Hobbsee> wow, my karma went up again too.
[10:53] <cypher1> Hobbsee, -kmykeyid to debuild ?
[10:53] <Hobbsee> cypher1: yep
[10:53] <Hobbsee> hi doko_
[10:54] <cypher1> Hobbsee, no let me try it
[10:57] <cypher1> Hobbsee, thanks!!! it works
[10:57] <Hobbsee> cypher1: :)
[10:58] <cypher1> Hobbsee, wonder why it is not mentioned in packaging guide
[10:58] <Hobbsee> cypher1: because Laser_away hasnt added it
[10:58] <cypher1> ok :)
[10:58] <Hobbsee> besides, why did you need to sign it anyway?  i guess if you were uploading it to revu
[10:59] <cypher1> yes i am learning to package and doing my first
[10:59] <cypher1> hope to upload to revu
[10:59] <cypher1> Hobbsee, we can upload any kind of packages right ?
[10:59] <Hobbsee> cypher1: ah right
[10:59] <Hobbsee> cypher1: only sources.
[10:59] <cypher1> Hobbsee, binary package ?
[10:59] <Hobbsee> cypher1: nope.  no binaries.
[11:00] <cypher1> Hobbsee, so pbuilder should not be done ??
[11:00] <Hobbsee> cypher1: it should, to test out the debs that you make.
[11:00] <Hobbsee> but dputting *.changes will only upload teh source files.
[11:15] <ajmitch> cypher1: please avoid using away scripts like that
[11:15] <ajmitch> they clutter up the channel
[11:43] <Enverex> I've got a question regarding a rather split package if anyone is awake
[11:43] <sivang> hi folks
[11:44] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi siretart
[11:44] <Kamping_Kaiser> er, sivang
[11:44] <Kamping_Kaiser> (sorry st)
[11:44] <sivang> hey dude
[11:44] <sivang> 'sup ?
[11:45] <Kamping_Kaiser> reading the packaging guide, amoungst other things :)
[11:45] <Enverex> I have a source package that normally detects whether you have xmms and/or audacious installed and then installs the plugins if you have them installed, now, how would I make that work as a package?
[11:46] <Fujitsu> Have seperate packages for each plugin.
[11:48] <Enverex> I thought of that but it seemed a bit wasteful considering there would be technically no difference between the packages other than the deps line on the control file
[11:49] <Fujitsu> No, no... The seperate plugin files in different packages.
[11:49] <Gloubiboulga> but the dependencies will be different
[11:50] <Gloubiboulga> the deps line is quite important actually
[11:51] <Gloubiboulga> depending on xmms will bring the gtk1.2 libs, depending on audacious will bring gtk2
[11:51] <Gloubiboulga> it's a big difference :)
[11:54] <Enverex> Fujitsu, but it's one source package...
[11:54] <Enverex> Audacious isn't even in Synaptic yet, which is annoying because XMMS sucks ass, heh
[11:54] <Fujitsu> Enverex, one source package can produce as many binary packages as necessary.
[11:54] <Enverex> Fujitsu, Erm, how do I go about that then?
[11:55] <Fujitsu> Are you using debhelper?
[11:55] <Enverex> yeah
[11:56] <Fujitsu> You'll just need to tell it to put the plugin files in seperate packages... I've forgotten exactly how.
[11:56] <Enverex> Although that wont work yet anyway as audacious would be a dep for one and it's not available yet
[11:56] <Gloubiboulga> by using .install files and several entries in debian/control
[11:57] <Enverex> Over my head =/
[11:58] <Fujitsu> Enverex, just set audacious as a dependency, it just won't be installable yet.
[11:58] <Enverex> Well yeah, but pbuilder will fail so I wont know if it worked
[12:05] <Enverex> If the package is named uade and it's building an xmms plugin, would xmms-uade (for the binary package) be correct?
[12:06] <Gloubiboulga> Ithink so
[12:06] <Enverex> hmm, I just thought, it makes a uade123 player too =/
[12:06] <Enverex> arg, I need to make this 3 packages but have no idea how
[12:07] <Gloubiboulga> Enverex, have a look at other packages ;)
[12:07] <Enverex> Can't think of any others that do that
[12:07] <Gloubiboulga> xchat, gftp, almost all the libs build multiple bianries
[12:08] <Gloubiboulga> see how they use .install files in debian/
[12:08] <Enverex> grrr
[12:09] <Enverex> E: You must put some source URIs in your sources.list
[12:09] <ajmitch> morning ogra_ :)
[12:09] <ajmitch> (if you're really here)
[02:23] <Kamping_Kaiser> can dpkg-buildpackage be used in verbose mode - like saying 'i'm applying quilt patches, i'm doign this, that and the otehr now'?
[02:30] <Enverex> hmm, I'm getting this when trying to build my sexypsf package...
[02:30] <Enverex> mv libsexypsf.so /tmp/buildd/.xmms/Plugins
[02:30] <Enverex> mv: cannot move `libsexypsf.so' to `/tmp/buildd/.xmms/Plugins': No such file or directory
[02:43] <Enverex> Some clue as to what I need to do to make that error not happen would be good
[02:44] <ajmitch> it should never try & put files outside of the package build tree
[02:45] <Enverex> the makefile tells it to move the file to $(HOME)/.xmms/Plugins
[02:45] <tseng> it should go to /usr/lib/xmms/ or wheverer system wide plugsins go
[02:46] <ajmitch> Enverex: that's a very bad thing
[02:46] <Kamping_Kaiser> if i run `debuild` will that make binary debs like `dpkg-buildpackage` would?
[02:46] <ajmitch> packages mustn't touch home directories
[02:46] <ajmitch> Kamping_Kaiser: yes
[02:46] <tseng> debuild runs dpkg-buildpackage
[02:46] <Kamping_Kaiser> thanks
[02:46] <Kamping_Kaiser> oh, right :$
[02:46] <Enverex> ajmitch, erm, well the plugin is supposed to go into the users xmms plugin folder. How else can it be done?
[02:47] <ajmitch> Enverex: a package is system-wide, what would you do if you had 20 users on the system, 5 of whom wanted this plugin?
[02:47] <ajmitch> look at where the other xmms plugins go
[02:47] <Enverex> That's true
[02:48] <Enverex> I'll need to modify the makefile then
[02:48] <ajmitch> quite likely
[02:48] <ajmitch> and make it respect $(DESTDIR)
[02:48] <Enverex> Well that's currently...
[02:48] <Enverex> installglobal: sexypsf
[02:48] <Enverex>         mv libsexypsf.so `xmms-config --input-plugin-dir`
[02:49] <ajmitch> which is bad, because if you build this outside of a chroot you're overwriting files on the filesystem
[02:49] <Enverex> But it also means if XMMS ever changes plugin folder, it wont work (because I now have to set it statically
[02:50] <ajmitch> you're assuming that xmms will change after all these years
[02:51] <Enverex> Still, it was a logical thing to use
[02:52] <ajmitch> yes, and you can still use it
[02:52] <ajmitch> however if you used something like $(DESTDIR)$(xmms-config --input-plugin-dir) it would also work
[02:52] <ajmitch> you may or may not need a / in between them
[02:52] <_ion> An extra / won't hurt.
[02:53] <ajmitch> from debian/rules, make gets called with the DESTDIR argument
[02:54] <_ion> I'd add input_plugin_dir := $(shell xmms-config --input-plugin-dir) around the beginning of the Makefile and then use the variable.
[02:54] <_ion> Note the :=
[02:55] <Enverex> Say I have a source that makes plugins for 2 different programs AND a standalone program, how do I go about having them split up?
[02:56] <_ion> Put each package's metadata to debian/control and use debian/packagename.install to install the proper files from debian/tmp.
[02:57] <Enverex> erm, any guides that make it simpler than that?
[02:57] <_ion> See dh_install(1)
[02:59] <Enverex> It did this instead now btw mv libsexypsf.so /tmp/buildd/sexypsf-0.4.8/debian/sexypsf (where as the plugin folder is /usr/lib/xmms/Input/)
[03:00] <Enverex> meh, this is all too dififcult to be honest
[03:07] <Enverex> _ion: ALL xmms addons seem to install to home, heh
[03:19] <Enverex> grr, I specified /usr/local/share in the .install file but it's not copied anything from that into the deb file
[03:20] <Enverex> (minus the first /)
[03:22] <Enverex> argh, I hate this, it's so frustating
[03:28] <slomo> EdgyEft: you don't want anything from /usr/local
[03:28] <slomo> Enverex: ^
[03:29] <Enverex> I put "usr/local" it's the folder inside the pbuild
[03:29] <Enverex> hence why I said "minus the first /"
[03:31] <Enverex> i.e. this is what pbuilder builds for one of them
[03:31] <Enverex> install src/frontends/xmms/libuade2.so "/tmp/buildd/uade-2.02/debian/uade/usr/lib/xmms/Input"
[03:33] <Kamping_Kaiser> noooo! i was trying to 'fix' the wrong file in this frigging vim thing
[03:33] <Enverex> Ok, it's official, I give up, this all takes FAR too long
[03:35] <Enverex> and makes little sense
[03:40] <Kamping_Kaiser> i'm confused - the file i need to patch doesnt exist.
[03:41] <Kamping_Kaiser> ah, now it does
[03:42] <Kamping_Kaiser> is there a motu list, and would it be the correct place to ask about patching that messes with your head?
[03:42] <ajmitch> yes & yes
[03:42] <ajmitch> and the next motu school thing is on patching
[03:43] <mloskot> hi all
[03:43] <ajmitch> though not at a decent time
[03:43] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi mloskot
[03:43] <mloskot> hi
[03:43] <Kamping_Kaiser> ajmitch, i cant go, i have  a tafe intro thing the same day (but 6 hours later) :|
[03:43] <mloskot> Is there anyone who could explain me why dh_make generates me following line in the control file: Package: cpptkBROKEN?
[03:43] <mloskot> I'm creating package for my cpptk library.
[03:43] <Kamping_Kaiser> actually i need help with making a patch - diffing?
[03:43] <mloskot> What does this BROKEN mean?
[03:45] <mloskot> Here is my complete control file generated by dh_make:
[03:45] <mloskot> http://rafb.net/paste/results/ko1OTL35.html
[03:45] <Kamping_Kaiser> my problem is: i get a pure vim source tree, but the file i need to patch doesnt exist untill i run 'fakeroot debian/rules extract', and i'm not sure where its coming from  - presumably somewhere in upstream/debians patches, which i cant work out from grepping
[03:49] <ajmitch> mloskot: when you ran dh_make, it would have told you to rename the package
[03:50] <mloskot> ajmitch: hmm, but the name is fine I suppose: cpptk-dev
[03:50] <ajmitch> because you chose a library package
[03:50] <ajmitch> and library packages have particularly strict rules
[03:51] <mloskot> ajmitch: you're right, thanks for the tip, now I know where is the problem.
[03:51] <mloskot> I run dh_make from script and haven't looked to details of the output msg.
[03:52] <mloskot> ajmitch: thanks!
[03:52] <mloskot> ajmitch: so finally I'll get two packages? cpptk-dev and cpptk1 (renamed from cpptkBROKEN), am I right?
[03:53] <derjohn> anyone ran edgy-alternate-amd64 to install a server on a raid0 ? base-install fails, with "mdadm not found".
[03:53] <ajmitch> you probably want to read the debian library packaging guide if this is a library
[03:54] <mloskot> ajmitch: certainly you're right. I'm trying to follow Debian New Maintainers' Guide, so it may not suffice in this subject.
[03:54] <ajmitch> it won't
[03:55] <mloskot> ajmitch: thanks again, I've found the guide you mentioned
[03:55] <ajmitch> people are generally discouraged from packaging a library as their first package, due to the number of little things required
[03:56] <Kamping_Kaiser> ajmitch, got a minute?
[03:56] <mloskot> Yup, I've been facing these things :-)
[03:56] <ajmitch> barely, I'm off to bed very shortly
[03:57] <Kamping_Kaiser> the file i need to patch is extracted from the vim orig upstream tarball, do i make changes -> diff -> try and use diff as a patch?
[03:57] <ajmitch> generally so, yes
[03:58] <ajmitch> not knowing what you're doing, I can't really say
[03:58] <Kamping_Kaiser> ok. wish me luck ;) quilt patch system, here i come
[03:58] <ajmitch> ah, quilt
[03:58] <Kamping_Kaiser> is that 'ah, rather you then me'?
[03:58] <ajmitch> I have't used it much
[03:59] <ajmitch> night all
[03:59] <Kamping_Kaiser> later mate
[04:02] <Kamping_Kaiser> right, i have a diff :) *moves into battle properly*
[04:11] <\sh> moins
[04:11] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi \sh
[04:12] <Kamping_Kaiser> (random question) are this switches ok for diff? -> diff -ruNa vim/runtime/syntax/debsources.vim vim/runtime/syntax/debsources.mod.vim  >addUbuntuToSourcesList.diff
[04:14] <Kamping_Kaiser> i'm asking because quilt didnt like it. *goes back to README.quilt for clues*
[04:14] <slomo> Kamping_Kaiser: why are you doing this btw? vim is already merged with debian and the debsources file has the ubuntu entries too iirc
[04:15] <slomo> Kamping_Kaiser: for the diff... that's fine :)
[04:15] <Kamping_Kaiser> slomo, it doesnt
[04:15] <Kamping_Kaiser> missing 'dapper, edgy+univer+multi+restr' (or my versions of vim are)
[04:16] <slomo> oh right... seems like i missed that ;) ok, if you give me the diff i'll upload it later :)
[04:17] <Kamping_Kaiser> slomo, would that diff ^ do, or do you want a proper quilt one?
[04:17] <slomo> that one would be fine
[04:17] <Kamping_Kaiser> ok. *goes to try and win this fight anyway.* ... i deserve to win :)
[04:18] <slomo> the quilt patches are normal diffs anyway
[04:19] <Kamping_Kaiser> hm. they seem to have an extra line (unless i'm just not used to diffs)
[04:19] <slomo> which one?
[04:20] <Kamping_Kaiser> Index: vim/runtime/syntax/debcontrol.vim
[04:20] <Kamping_Kaiser> [04:20] <Kamping_Kaiser> (eg)
[04:21] <slomo> nothing to worry about :)
[04:21] <Kamping_Kaiser> well it failed to apply because of it, so i wondered :)
[04:22] <slomo> not because of this lines... there must've been another conflict
[04:25] <Hobbsee> hi all
[04:25] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi Hobbsee :) *hugs*
[04:26] <Hobbsee> hi Kamping_Kaiser ;0
[04:26] <Hobbsee> :)
[04:26] <Kamping_Kaiser> :o
[04:26] <Kamping_Kaiser> :D
[04:27] <Hobbsee> haha
[04:27] <Kamping_Kaiser> :P
[04:27] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi Yagisan
[04:27] <Hobbsee> hi Yagisan
[04:27] <phanatic> hey Hobbsee and Yagisan
[04:28] <Hobbsee> hi phanatic
[04:31] <Kamping_Kaiser> slomo, it seems those 2 lines are added by quilt. I *FINALLY* got it to patch
[04:31] <slomo> Kamping_Kaiser: there are some patches without these lines that work fine
[04:32] <Kamping_Kaiser> slomo, i belive you :)
[04:32] <slomo> patches/cindent-fix.patch for example
[04:32] <Kamping_Kaiser> do you want me to email it to you, or attach it to the bug?
[04:32] <Kamping_Kaiser> ls
[04:33] <slomo> attach it to the bug and assign the bug to me... i'll upload it in some minutes after i'm back from shopping ;)
[04:33] <Kamping_Kaiser> ok, asigning to slomo :)
[04:35] <Yagisan> evening Kamping_Kaiser, Hobbsee, phanatic
[04:36] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi :)
[04:43] <Kamping_Kaiser> ok, night all. :) i'm going to quit while i'm ahead :D
[04:44] <Kamping_Kaiser> night Hobbsee :) catch you tomorrow
[04:44] <Hobbsee> night Kamping_Kaiser
[04:45] <Kamping_Kaiser> later mate *gone*
[04:56] <bddebian> Heya gang
[04:58] <phanatic> hey raphink and bddebian :)
[05:00] <bddebian> Hello phanatic
[05:04] <raphink> hi phanatic
[05:12] <FunnyLookinHat> Does anyone here know how I can use the files that dh_make produces if my build command have something in between ./configure and make ?
[05:14] <bddebian> FunnyLookinHat: Just run qmake after configure in rules
[05:14] <phanatic> FunnyLookinHat: just insert the appropriate command in the right place (either after ./configure or before make of course)
[05:15] <FunnyLookinHat> ooh ok, in the rules file.
[05:15] <FunnyLookinHat> Thanks
[05:15] <bddebian> Is there any point in replacing an xfree86-common build-dep with x11-common?  Or do I just have to get all the modules it needs?
[05:19] <phanatic> FunnyLookinHat: yeah, in debian/rules. just left out the most important info, sorry :)
[06:12] <slomo> Kamping_Kaiser: uploaded, thanks :)
[06:22] <Gloubiboulga> Arbiter, ping
[06:22] <Arbiter> Gloubiboulga, pong
[06:23] <Gloubiboulga> Arbiter, colorscheme is not out of NEW, right?
[06:23] <Arbiter> nope
[06:23] <Gloubiboulga> I think it might a good idea to ask a reject for it
[06:23] <Arbiter> #ubuntu-devel?
[06:23] <Gloubiboulga> yes
[06:24] <Arbiter> Gloubiboulga, agave is ok?
[06:24] <Gloubiboulga> it'll make things easier for everyone (name change)
[06:24] <Arbiter> yep
[06:24] <Gloubiboulga> Arbiter, I'm checking :)
[06:24] <Arbiter> Gloubiboulga, good work :)
[06:27] <Arbiter> Gloubiboulga, asked for removal
[06:28] <Gloubiboulga> thanks Arbiter
[06:40] <bddebian> Kamping_Kaiser: Oh, so you have slomo doing your dirty work now eh? :-)
[06:46] <bddebian> phanatic: Mind if I do the labplot merge?
[06:57] <phanatic> bddebian: feel free to do it :)
[06:57] <LaserJock> bddebian: *\o/*
[06:59] <LaserJock> *-o-*
[06:59] <LaserJock> *\o/*
[07:02] <Arbiter> Gloubiboulga, ping
[07:02] <Gloubiboulga> Arbiter, yep
[07:03] <Arbiter> Gloubiboulga, do i need to remove changelog entries like " * New upstream version" and replace with " * Initial release"?
[07:03] <Gloubiboulga> Arbiter, I think so, yes
[07:03] <Arbiter> well
[07:03] <Arbiter> it's in my tomorrow TODO
[07:04] <Arbiter> i have to play with C++ and QT4 now :D
[07:04] <Gloubiboulga> no hurry, lets check that colorscheme is really REJECTED
[07:04] <Arbiter> i posted on -devel
[07:04] <Gloubiboulga> you should play with C and GTK :p
[07:05] <Arbiter> Gloubiboulga, nah :P
[07:05] <Arbiter> qt is better :P
[07:05] <Gloubiboulga> :)
[07:05] <Arbiter> i dont like the simil-OO pattern used in Gtk :P
[07:05] <Arbiter> but i'll try gtkmm ;)
[07:06] <Arbiter> i'm writing a simple gui to help me managing files in debian/ :P
[07:06] <chillywilly> LaserJock: we'll see :)
[07:10] <LaserJock> hmm, I have yet to figure out how OS X stores the user's application data
[07:17] <Gloubiboulga> how strange, reinstalling dchroot removed my config file
[07:18] <Gloubiboulga> actually no, I deleted it myself ^^
[07:18] <Gloubiboulga> but reinstalling dchroot doesn't create /etc/dchroot.conf
[07:24] <bddebian> LaserJock: :-)
[07:24] <bddebian> phanatic: OK, thx
[07:26] <slomo> Arbiter: simil-OO pattern?
[07:26] <Arbiter> slomo, yep... things like gtk_button_new_with_text(); :P
[07:26] <Arbiter> (C, not C#)
[07:27] <slomo> *shrug* gtk is nice in all languages :P
[07:27] <Arbiter> :P
[07:27] <Arbiter> Qt is not only a GUI toolkit
[07:27] <Arbiter> is a complete framework
[07:28] <Arbiter> it's more useful for me :P
[07:29] <Arbiter> (and easier)
[07:29] <Arbiter> and coherent, and many other things :D
[07:29] <Arbiter> slomo, i prefer use gtk+ with C# + monodevelop + stetic
[07:29] <Arbiter> ;)
[07:29] <bddebian> eeks
[07:30] <Arbiter> in any other cases i prefer C++ & qt :D
[07:31] <LaserJock> I like Fortran+readline
[07:31] <bddebian> hehe
[07:31] <Arbiter> :D
[07:34] <bddebian> Heya tuxmaniac
[07:34] <tuxmaniac> bddebian> heya
[07:34] <tuxmaniac> bddebian> xcircuit has to be synced
[07:34] <tuxmaniac> bddebian> :)
[07:34] <zul> im going to hit someone
[07:35] <tseng> zul: please.
[07:38] <zul> wohoo..
[07:38] <bddebian> tuxmaniac: Aye
[07:39] <LaserJock> zul: hmm
[07:39] <LaserJock> zul: did you succeed?
[07:40] <zul> i thought about it but i have no one to physically to beat
[07:40] <zul> so im playing poker until this thing compiles
[07:48] <lukaswayne9> If I find a bug in a universe package what should I do?  I can fix it easily, should I upload a fixed package to the revu/
[07:48] <bddebian> lukaswayne9: Sure, or become an MOTU ;-P
[07:48] <lukaswayne9> I have so much free time, and there is SO much broken stuff in universe that can fixed SO easily.. How can I become a MOTU?
[07:48] <ThiefOfBaghdad> bddebian> I want to become one :P
[07:49] <sharms> step 1: read the wiki
[07:49] <bddebian> lukaswayne9: Keep packaging stuff and fixing bugs :-)
[07:50] <bddebian> ThiefOfBaghdad: So do it :-)
[07:50] <sharms> step 1.1: go to the link: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Hopeful/Recruitment
[07:51] <bddebian> lukaswayne9: A better way may be to file a bug on LP and post a debdiff with the fix \
[07:52] <LaserJock> lukaswayne9: and assign it to the motureviewers LP team
[07:52] <bddebian> Aye
[07:54] <lukaswayne9> lot's of packages need to follow the new python policy
[07:54] <bddebian> Yes
[07:54] <lukaswayne9> shouldn't that stuff be fixed in debian though?
[07:54] <bddebian> In fact, for those, it would be best to create a debdiff and post to Debian BTS
[07:54] <LaserJock> lukaswayne9: yes
[07:55] <lukaswayne9> Why are there so many missing packages from universe?  Like libvte4?
[07:55] <bddebian> LaserJock: Speaking of which, axiom has issues besides build-depping on xfree86-common :-)
[07:56] <LaserJock> lukaswayne9: missing how? In Debian but not in Ubuntu?
[07:56] <lukaswayne9> there's a source pacakge but no binaries
[07:56] <bddebian> Means it probably failed to build
[07:56] <LaserJock> ah, well if the source has a problem and doesn't build then there are no binaries
[07:57] <LaserJock> bddebian: arggg, I dislike that package. partially because it is so stinkin huge
[07:57] <bddebian> It's there
[07:57] <bddebian> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/vte/1:0.13.3-0ubuntu1
[07:57] <sharms> speaking of stinking huge packages, ogre3d is a bit over my head
[07:57] <bddebian> LaserJock: Aye, 40Mb.. :-)
[07:57] <bddebian> sharms: What's wrong with it?
[07:58] <sharms> bddebian: very out of date, but it is very complex with respect to how debian packaged it so i can't quite figure out how to package the new version
[07:58] <lukaswayne9> E: Package libvte4 has no installation candidate
[07:58] <sharms> maybe someone can tell me why they name it: libogre5c2a  instead of just libogre?
[07:59] <bddebian> I'm not sure I'll ever understand that versioning crap :-(
[07:59] <bddebian> lukaswayne9: Ah, it's libvte9
[07:59] <sharms> they released version 1.2 a while ago, but debian is still on the old version, and what is worse is there was API improvements so people reading the current tutorials won't be able to use them on our version
[08:00] <lukaswayne9> libvte4 is required by grip
[08:00] <sharms> I know we got some time before a freeze, but unless I magically become a motu guru I don't see myself being able to do it
[08:00] <bddebian> sharms: Are the upstream build systems the same or did they change also?
[08:00] <bddebian> lukaswayne9: So fix grip :-)
[08:00] <sharms> bddebian: upstream is still old version, I have a feeling it will stay that way since it is a complex project
[08:00] <lukaswayne9> alright
[08:00] <lukaswayne9> i've got a lot of packages i'm interested in fixing
[08:00] <bddebian> sharms: I mean upstream, upstream, not Debian
[08:00] <lukaswayne9> i'll set a goal to become a MOTU for the next release cycle
[08:00] <bddebian> excellent
[08:00] <ThiefOfBaghdad> lukaswayne9> good yaar. we got loads of such packages with loads of errors
[08:01] <sharms> bddebian: the build system is still the same, but there are like 9 patches for debian for some reason
[08:01] <sharms> bddebian: and those packages dont work without modification
[08:01] <sharms> err patches
[08:01] <lukaswayne9> i did a lot of packaging for Arch Linux, and I'm a little bit new to the deb scene, but I think I'm getting better..  My two contributed packages are solid
[08:01] <bddebian> sharms: THey weren't fixed in the newer version?
[08:02] <sharms> bddebian: After looking at it for an hour I went crosseyed and gave up, I wish I knew
[08:03] <bddebian> sharms: Try ripping the patches out and just building the package and see what happens
[08:03] <LaserJock> lukaswayne9: I can't see why libvte4 wouldn't be available
[08:03] <bddebian> LaserJock: vte source doesn't build libvte4 anymore
[08:03] <LaserJock> it doesn't?
[08:04] <LaserJock> bddebian: oh, in edgy it doesn't
[08:04] <bddebian> Nope, libvte9 now :-)
[08:04] <LaserJock> I was looking at dapper
[08:04] <bddebian> :-)
[08:05] <LaserJock> how do you mean
[08:05] <LaserJock> how did that go?
[08:05] <ThiefOfBaghdad> that kid has just got used to it
[08:05] <ThiefOfBaghdad> and now he clicks on applications, education and goes to tux paint
[08:05] <ThiefOfBaghdad> :)
[08:05] <LaserJock> great
[08:05] <ThiefOfBaghdad> So no "start" button problems :)
[08:06] <bddebian> heh
[08:06] <LaserJock> you should send an email to edubuntu-devel with your experience
[08:06] <lukaswayne9> i'll see if i can get grip to build with libvte9
[08:06] <LaserJock> we're always looking for user feedback
[08:06] <ThiefOfBaghdad> LaserJock> let me tell you. that sound that tux paint makes is really very impressive and made that kid laugh his guts out
[08:07] <LaserJock> excellent
[08:08] <ThiefOfBaghdad> LaserJock> is there any A B C D teaching thing. kanagram is a bit too high standard for a 4 year old kid.
[08:09] <LaserJock> hmm, I'd ask #edubuntu, HedgeMage would probably know
[08:09] <LaserJock> I'm interested in the older kids ;-)
[08:09] <ThiefOfBaghdad> :)
[08:10] <ThiefOfBaghdad> LaserJock> btw I am tuxmaniac
[08:10] <LaserJock> tuxmaniac: I believe somebody (could be HedgeMage) has their 18 month old on it ;-)
[08:10] <tuxmaniac> trying to get edubuntu running for 10 year olds to 15 year olds
[08:11] <LaserJock> I'm trying for college students :-)
[08:11] <tuxmaniac> LaserJock> are you kidding. college :kids: ???? :O they must be hacking the kernel by then
[08:11] <LaserJock> no, non-CS type college kids
[08:12] <bddebian> Those stoner Liberal Arts types ;-P
[08:12] <LaserJock> I want to use it on my departments computer lab
[08:12] <LaserJock> most of the students in my department don't like computers really
[08:12] <LaserJock> they IM, surf the web, and check email
[08:13] <LaserJock> that's pretty much it
[08:13] <zul> heh thats what i do
[08:13] <bddebian> No kidding
[08:13] <bddebian> ;-P
[08:13] <LaserJock> whatever :-p
[08:14] <LaserJock> so we have a computer lab with thousands of dollars of software and it's just good for chatting
[08:14] <bddebian> Heh, sounds like corporate :-)
[08:14] <LaserJock> mostly because it's Windows and it stinks
[08:14] <zul> LaserJock: and porn
[08:15] <LaserJock> so the sysadmin and I are on a small crusade to rid the computer lab of MS and put Edubuntu on it
[08:15] <bddebian> Ah yes, Windows sucks, hence why it has like 90 some % of the market
[08:16] <LaserJock> yes, it does create a vacuum alright
[08:16] <LaserJock> anyway, Edubuntu is doing some really exiting stuff with LTSP et al.
[08:17] <tuxmaniac> yeah got some feel with it today. impressive idea
[08:18] <tuxmaniac> LaserJock> thin client for schools is very much feasible and can be a huge hit. because schools do have financial problems unlike big professional colleges and univs
[08:18] <LaserJock> yes, but it's not just the cost
[08:19] <LaserJock> the administration is sooo much less
[08:19] <LaserJock> my dept.'s computer lab has 15 computers all with their own Windows install (which constantly craps out)
[08:19] <sharms> I really have to stop helping people with problems, it takes up my whole day
[08:20] <LaserJock> sharms: mwuahahaha, that's the point ;-)
[08:20] <sharms> or we need people dedicated to giving support on #ubuntu, because I feel bad when I see people getting the wrong answers from people
[08:20] <sharms> and so I can't help but get involved in hours long support sessions
[08:20] <sharms> LaserJock: nooo :)
[08:21] <bddebian> Damn, could labplot possibly take any longer to build.. Sheesh
[08:21] <LaserJock> sharms: let me tell you dude, I started "helping out" and now I've spent around 40 hrs/week for the last 7 months :-)
[08:21] <bddebian> heh
[08:21] <LaserJock> you can't escape the blackhole that is the Ubuntu community ;-)
[08:22] <tuxmaniac> LaserJock> heh
[08:22] <sharms> well half the time people ask a question, and the kids say "use automatix omg!!!"
[08:22] <Enverex> Still there sharms ?
[08:22] <LaserJock> yeah, #ubuntu could use a mute button sometimes
[08:23] <sharms> Enverex:  still here
[08:23] <LaserJock> my problem is I can't help in #ubuntu because I don't know anything
[08:23] <Enverex> I'm trying to get a source to make multiple binary packages but I can't get them to include the right/any files
[08:24] <sharms> Enverex: have you read the packaging guide yet?
[08:24] <Enverex> Yes
[08:24] <Enverex> I can make normal packages, just can't figure out what I need to put in the .install files to get multi-ones to contain the right files
.install
[08:25] <Enverex> Yeah, I've done tha
[08:25] <Enverex> *t
[08:26] <h3sp4wn> Enverex: Maybe try using installwatch to see what you need ?
[08:26] <LaserJock> Enverex: you might want to check out an existing package that has multiple binaries
[08:26] <Enverex> Well I mean I have "usr/lib/xmms/Input/" in one of the .install files but it still doesn't contain anything that would be in that folder
[08:27] <Enverex> The #ubuntu channel annoys me, all I see these days are people going !blah
[08:27] <sharms> Enverex: those !blahs are very helpful, people have spent much time documenting how to do things
[08:27] <LaserJock> !seen Enverex
[08:27] <ubotu> Enverex is on IRC right now!
[08:27] <Enverex> sharms, I know, but not always
[08:28] <sharms> I even use ubotu when I get stuck myself actually
[08:28] <LaserJock> the bot can be useful but easily abused
[08:28] <Enverex> So, about the .install file, any comments?
[08:28] <crimsun> why use "usr/lib/xmms/Input/" in the .install if it's not relevant?
[08:28] <Enverex> erm, it is relevant..
[08:29] <LaserJock> yeah, I don't understand what you are trying to do
[08:29] <Enverex> Well see this is what happens when you're trying to do something and you just get RTFM'd
[08:29] <crimsun> what's unclear in dh_install(1)?
[08:30] <LaserJock> Enverex: nobody RTFM'd you
[08:30] <Enverex> Well, if something is supposed to be installed to /usr/bin and I put usr/bin in the .install file, why doesn't it put the packages from the build that go into usr/bin into that package?
[08:30] <Enverex> LaserJock, I'm refering to earlier
[08:31] <sharms> Enverex: One thing you learn is that the really smart people have really short tolerances, you just have to learn what the right questions are
[08:31] <LaserJock> sharms: more often we are not very smart people and have no clue ;-)
[08:31] <sharms> LaserJock: but the really smart ones, like elmo, are also a bit snippy :)
[08:31] <LaserJock> oh, well yeah
[08:31] <crimsun> Enverex: does stuff actually get put into $(pwd)/debian/$package/usr/bin/ via ``make install''?
[08:32] <sharms> except for slomo, who is very smart and friendly for some reason
[08:32] <bddebian> LaserJock: :-)
[08:32] <Enverex> crimsun, Yeah, and in /usr/share/uade2  (which I'd put usr/share/uade2) but nothing appears in the binary packages
[08:32] <sharms> Enverex: speaking of which, you might want to make use of the MOTU Mentors program. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentors    -- find yourself a mentor and have them help you through things, it is really helping me
[08:33] <crimsun> Enverex: URL to your source package?
[08:33] <bddebian> sharms: crimsun is smart and helpful too, he just hates me :-)
[08:33] <Enverex> crimsun,  http://zakalwe.virtuaalipalvelin.net/uade/
[08:33] <sharms> bddebian: I think if you want him to be your mentor he will be forced to be nice
[08:34] <Enverex> here are two lines from the build output
[08:34] <Enverex> cp -f amigasrc/score/score uaerc eagleplayer.conf "/tmp/buildd/uade-2.02/debian/uade/usr/share/uade2/"
[08:34] <Enverex> cp -rf players "/tmp/buildd/uade-2.02/debian/uade/usr/share/uade2/"
[08:35] <bddebian> Oh wow, crimsun is on the mentors list.  Will you be my mentor crimsun? :-)
[08:35] <crimsun> Enverex: the source packages you're working on are at that URL?
[08:35] <LaserJock> bddebian: you should be on the Mentor list as well
[08:35] <Enverex> crimsun, yeah, http://zakalwe.virtuaalipalvelin.net/uade/uade2/uade-2.02.tar.bz2 to be exact
[08:35] <crimsun> Enverex: (by 'source packages' I mean the debianisation)
[08:35] <Enverex> Oh, no
[08:35] <Enverex> There is no source package anywhere
[08:35] <crimsun> not even what you're working on?
[08:35] <Enverex> I'm making the package
[08:36] <crimsun> right, so post your WIP on the Web so we can look
[08:36] <Enverex> Oh, sure, but I have no-where to put it
[08:36] <crimsun> have you uploaded to REVU before?
[08:36] <crimsun> http://revu.tauware.de/
[08:37] <crimsun> bddebian: don't you already have a mentor? :-)
[08:37] <crimsun> bddebian: and people you're mentoring?
[08:37] <bddebian> crimsun: No, I need one
[08:37] <crimsun> if you really want me to be your mentor, sure
[08:37] <Enverex> crimsun, I can't upload to that and if I use the debian upload program it will just screw up anyway as I wont be able to overwrite it and it's not finished/working anyway
[08:37] <siretart> bddebian: err, arn't you already in ubuntu-dev?
[08:38] <crimsun> bddebian: this mentor process is more of an 'initial introduction', not really a 'know everything' thing
[08:38] <crimsun> and I'm pretty sure you've been around long enough to be past the 'initial intro' :-)
[08:38] <crimsun> Enverex: can you just dcc them to me?
[08:39] <Enverex> Possibly, 1 sec
[08:39] <crimsun> them->diff.gz,dsc
[08:39] <Enverex> Also want to know why debhelper is still broken
[08:39] <sharms> how do I get a login on REVU after I have added myself the the contributors to ubuntu group?
[08:40] <crimsun> 5.0.37.3ubuntu1 works fine for me...
[08:40] <LaserJock> sharms: have you uploaded yet?
[08:40] <sharms> LaserJock: not directly
[08:40] <Enverex> First it say "gpg: problem with the agent - disabling agent use" before asking me to enter my password then says "debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting.... debuild: fatal error at line 791: running debsign failed"
[08:40] <crimsun> Enverex: that's not debhelper, that's your gpg agent.
[08:40] <Enverex> "debsign <file I want to sigh>" works fine
[08:41] <Enverex> *sign
[08:41] <bddebian> crimsun: Oh :-)
[08:42] <crimsun> is $GPG_AGENT_INFO set?
[08:43] <Enverex> crimsun, blank
[08:43] <bddebian>  cp /usr/share/misc/config.{sub,guess} . isn't valid is it?
[08:43] <crimsun> bddebian: sure it is
[08:43] <crimsun> it probably should be prefaced with a '-'  :  -cp ...
[08:43] <bddebian> Hmm, then the files must be missing.. Grr
[08:43] <crimsun> or use cp -f
[08:44] <crimsun> are you build-depending on autotools-dev?
[08:44] <Enverex> DCC doesn't seem to work
[08:45] <bddebian> crimsun: I'm not but the package is :-)
[08:45] <Enverex> meh, this is pointless
[08:46] <crimsun> Enverex: where is your gpg-agent?
[08:46] <crimsun> ``which gpg-agent''
[08:47] <crimsun> make sure $GPG_AGENT_INFO references the correct gpg-agent
[08:48] <bddebian> Grr, maelstrom is pissing me off
[08:49] <crimsun> Enverex: you can't send from that ip (whatever is being reported)
[08:51] <Enverex>  ``which gpg-agent'' gives nothing
[08:52] <crimsun> can you just e-mail them to me?
[08:52] <crimsun> crimsun at ubuntu dot com
[08:52] <Enverex> Sure
[08:54] <Enverex> Done
[08:54] <FunnyLookinHat> does the dh_make package creation process do a make install or do I have to add that to a file ?
[08:55] <crimsun> FunnyLookinHat: you're responsible for modifying debian/*
[08:55] <bddebian> OK, 'cp /usr/share/misc/config.{guess,sub} .' works from the command line but in rules it gives me 'cp: cannot stat '/usr/share/misc/config.{guess,sub}': No such file or directory.. WTF?
[08:55] <crimsun> bddebian: where is this?
[08:55] <crimsun> you need autotools-dev installed
[08:55] <FunnyLookinHat> hmm ok.
[08:55] <bddebian> crimsun: maelstrom
[08:56] <bddebian> crimsun: It's a build-dep
[08:56] <crimsun> oh, I see.
[08:56] <crimsun> that's not valid for dash.
[08:57] <crimsun> the '{,}', that is
[08:57] <bddebian> That's what I was wondering.  I think I saw this in another package recently
[08:58] <bddebian> Is there a valid one for dash or just have two seperate cp lines?
[08:58] <bddebian> Or make rules do a !/bin/bash -e ? :-)
[08:58] <crimsun> I would just list them separately
[08:58] <crimsun> no bashism there, guaranteed to work for all shells, etc.
[08:59] <bddebian> OK thx
[09:00] <crimsun> Enverex: sec
[09:07] <crimsun> Enverex: if something build-depends on xmms-dev, it doesn't need to list xmms
[09:08] <Enverex> crimsun, Yeah I know, I meant to remove that, that was when I was trying to get it to install into the right folder initially
[09:09] <crimsun> Enverex: the binaries uade123 and xmms-uade should Depend on ${shlib:Depends}
[09:09] <crimsun> same for audacious
[09:09] <crimsun> -uade (that, is)
[09:09] <Enverex> Ah, I didn't know what that meant and thought that it was just a placeholder
[09:10] <crimsun> note this line: $(MAKE) install DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/e-uae
[09:11] <crimsun> then look at --package-prefix=$(CURDIR)/debian/uad
[09:11] <crimsun> e
[09:11] <Enverex> whoops
[09:11] <crimsun> what's the use of --package-prefix=?
[09:11] <Enverex> that was also supposed to be removed
[09:11] <LaserJock> --package-prefix didn't work?
[09:11] <Enverex> (when I was trying to get it to install to the right place, before I edited the makefile)
[09:11] <crimsun> you shouldn't need --package-prefix at all.
[09:12] <Enverex> LaserJock, It worked for e-uae, yeah
[09:12] <crimsun> distribution in debian/changelog needs to be "edgy"
[09:12] <bddebian> Are auto-syncs not happening for Universe anymore?
[09:12] <crimsun> bddebian: not afaik
[09:13] <crimsun> debian/copyright needs [a]  copyright date for the copyright holder
[09:13] <Enverex> I was intending on getting it working before polishing it
[09:14] <crimsun> it's no problem. I have the diff.gz in front of me, so I did a review-pass.
[09:14] <Enverex> Ah, I've done everything as dapper so far (I'm not using Edgy so I didn't know if it would even work on it)
[09:14] <Enverex> ah
[09:15] <Enverex> What gpg-agent do you all use btw?
[09:15] <crimsun> I don't use one at all.
[09:15] <LaserJock> me neither
[09:15] <Enverex> hmm, that doesn't explain why debhelper fails for me..
[09:16] <sharms> Enverex: I like to use seahorse
[09:16] <crimsun> where is it failing?
[09:16] <Enverex> I posted earlier, 1 se
[09:17] <Enverex> First it say "gpg: problem with the agent - disabling agent use" before asking me to enter my password then says "debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting.... debuild: fatal error at line 791: running debsign failed"
[09:17] <crimsun> if you're referring to the gpg-agent stuff, that's gpg-agent. debhelper has nothing to do with that.
[09:18] <Enverex> It tries to use a gpg-agent and fails then falls back to just asking me normally, but then when I enter it fails anyway
[09:18] <crimsun> that's debuild, not debhelper.
[09:19] <Enverex> oh yeah, heh, my bad
[09:19] <LaserJock> so you could just do dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot and then debsign
[09:20] <LaserJock> I think
[09:20] <Enverex> True, but that doesn't explain why debuild is broke
[09:20] <crimsun> debuild isn't broken; it's gpg-agent not being configured properly.
[09:20] <Enverex> crimsun, Well, if it works with debsign then it must be right..
[09:21] <crimsun> debsign doesn't give a toot about gpg-agent
[09:21] <Enverex> debsign signs without me having to enter my password... so it's using something
[09:21] <crimsun> use LaserJock's suggestion, but pass -us
[09:22] <crimsun> -uc -us, actually
[09:22] <LaserJock> well debuild -S -us -uc then debsign
[09:22] <Enverex> Anyways, are you still looking through the thing crimsun ?
[09:23] <crimsun> Enverex: I'm awaiting an updated diff.gz+dsc
[09:24] <Enverex> crimsun, erm, ok
[09:31] <Enverex> crimsun, I'm not sure how that would help, but sent
[09:33] <Enverex> Not added a copyright date though yet as I cant find one
[09:33] <crimsun> should be in the source code if nowhere else
[09:34] <bddebian> I wonder if I should disable --with-glw for grass since we don't have the libGLw stuff?
[09:36] <crimsun> how did the Debian source package break up its packages?
[09:36] <Enverex> crimsun, I wasn't aware there was one
[09:37] <crimsun> Enverex: (that was to bddebian)
[09:37] <Enverex> ah, sorry
[09:37] <bddebian> crimsun: Which package, grass?
[09:38] <crimsun> bddebian: whichever one you're referring to for --with-glw
[09:38] <bddebian> crimsun: That's grass.  Apparently we removed the GLw libs and grass tries to build with them
[09:39] <Enverex> I'm tempted to forget about making packages and just use sources for stuff, heh, this is far too much effort
[09:39] <bddebian> Enverex: :)
[09:40] <crimsun> bddebian: right, upstream went the libgl1-mesa-swx11-dev b-d route
[09:40] <bddebian> AYe
[09:43] <crimsun> I'm pretty sure that's fine
[09:43] <bddebian> Well I'm already trying it ;-)
[09:43] <crimsun> be aware that it will remove libgl1-mesa-dri and libgl1-mesa-glx, though
[09:44] <bddebian> ?
[09:44] <crimsun> (due to libgl1-mesa-glx)
[09:44] <crimsun> err
[09:44] <bddebian> I didn't remove the build dep, I just took out --with-glw
[09:44] <crimsun> (due to libgl1-mesa-swx11)
[09:44] <crimsun> right, if you keep Debian's b-d
[09:45] <crimsun> Enverex: sorry, I'm attempting (poorly) to multitask
[09:45] <Enverex> crimsun, It's only, It's just I've been at this for like, a week now and only rarely able to get help
[09:45] <bddebian> Sorry, I'll shut up, help Enverex :-)
[09:47] <Enverex> (not on this one package, on 3 packages in total, but still, the other two were more basic althoguh I think I've done a lot wrong as there was never anyone to show me the "right" way, heh)
[09:47] <Enverex> done mind me bddebian
[09:48] <LaserJock> Enverex: we help as much as we are able
[09:48] <LaserJock> packaging is not an easy task (at least for me)
[09:49] <LaserJock> Enverex: you might try working on existing packages first to get the hang of it before starting big projects
[09:50] <LaserJock> mulitiple-binary source packages aren't a good first time project
[09:50] <LaserJock> necessarily
[09:50] <Enverex> I know, it was just more stuff that I really wanted to use than what I thought was easy
[09:52] <LaserJock> I can certainly understand that
[09:52] <Enverex> Well 2 of my packages I have installed and working on my machine, so even if they aren't goot enough for Ubuntu's own repos, at least I can still use them locally
[09:52] <crimsun> we can do a revu day next saturday
[09:53] <Enverex> I'll probably be at work
[09:53] <crimsun> ouch, uade-2.02 is /not/ gcc-4.1-pretty.
[09:54] <Enverex> That's fixed in CVS apparrently
[09:54] <crimsun> lots of 32-bit assumptions and the like
[09:57] <crimsun> there's a hard-coded install directory.
[09:57] <crimsun> mkdir -p "/usr/share/uade2/players"
[09:57] <crimsun> mkdir: cannot create directory `/usr/share/uade2': Permission denied
[09:57] <LaserJock> yeah, that's what we where fighting yesterday
[09:57] <LaserJock> where's the hard code?
[09:58] <Enverex> LaserJock, different program, that was E-UAE which I got working
[09:58] <LaserJock> oh, put its the same place, sorry
[09:58] <LaserJock> s/put/but/
[10:00] <crimsun> I really, really need ccache on this machine.
[10:06] <crimsun> you're missing a b-d on libao-dev, btw.
[10:07] <crimsun> excellent, now the package builds properly.
[10:07] <Enverex> b-d?
[10:07] <crimsun> debian/control:Build-Depends
[10:07] <Enverex> ah
[10:08] <bddebian> Damn I hate it when I forget to bump the version :-(
[10:10] <yosch> crimsun: ping
[10:10] <crimsun> yosch: pong
[10:10] <Toadstool> re
[10:10] <crimsun> re Toadstool
[10:10] <bddebian> wb Toadstool
[10:11] <Toadstool> hey crimsun & bddebian :)
[10:11] <yosch> crimsun: wondering if you had a chance to look at #50802?
[10:11] <crimsun> bug 50802
[10:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 50802 in ttf-gentium "Please backport ttf-gentium to dapper-backports from edgy (fixes broken defoma hints)" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/50802
[10:11] <crimsun> yosch: I have not, I'll queue it
[10:12] <yosch> crimsun: great
[10:12] <yosch> crimsun: you have the updated debian in the Alioth repo, and I posted a link to the source packages
[10:12] <yosch> anything else you'd like me to do to help?
[10:13] <crimsun> yosch: what would help immensely is if you generated a debdiff against the current dapper package
[10:14] <crimsun> yosch: (that's pretty much what I'll [have to]  do and ask mdz for approval anyhow)
[10:14] <yosch> crimsun: OK, it will be in your inbox in a few minutes :)
[10:14] <crimsun> yosch: thanks
[10:15] <Toadstool> yay! "cp: cannot stat `AUTHORS': No such file or directory, dh_installdocs: command returned error code 256" and the file exists... I love that kind of FTBFS :)
[10:16] <yosch> crimsun: just to be sure: a debdiff against what (changes, dsc, deb?)
[10:16] <yosch> last time mdz preferred a .changes one
[10:16] <crimsun> debdiff will accept any of those
[10:17] <yosch> crimsun: yes but which one do you (and mdz) actually need?
[10:18] <crimsun> yosch: debdiff against the source package is preferable, so dsc
[10:19] <yosch> crimsun: OK, got it thanks :-)
[10:19] <crimsun> yosch: np
[10:22] <Enverex> crimsun, Any progress?
[10:22] <crimsun> Enverex: I'm debugging the Makefile mess
[10:22] <Toadstool> grah! how come can't dh_installdocs install that $%! file?
[10:22] <Toadstool> I hate when I don't understand what's going on...
[10:28] <Enverex> crimsun, Is it that bad? heh
[10:28] <crimsun> it's pretty nasty.
[10:29] <crimsun> granted attempting to have a phone conversation and fix this package simultaneously is challenging
[10:29] <crimsun> awesome.
[10:29] <Enverex> lol
[10:29] <crimsun> turns out you do need
[10:29] <crimsun> argh
[10:29] <bddebian> Well stop dialing those 1-900 numbers then ;-P
[10:30] <crimsun> turns out you do need --package-prefix
[10:30] <crimsun> this is one fgly source package
[10:31] <crimsun> Enverex: http://sh.nu/~crimsun/uade_2.02-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
[10:31] <bddebian> Heya slomo
[10:31] <slomo> hi bddebian :)
[10:31] <crimsun> oh d'oh, that's the old one
[10:32] <crimsun> lo sebastian
[10:32] <Enverex> crimsun, I was told before normally to not touch the makefile so I didn't, heh
[10:32] <Toadstool> hi slomo
[10:32] <crimsun> oh you can wromp all over the Makefile if you want
[10:32] <crimsun> or in this case, Makefile.in
[10:32] <crimsun> it's just successively less maintainable
[10:34] <Enverex> True
[10:34] <Enverex> crimsun, erm, how do I apply that? (entire syntax)
[10:34] <crimsun> Enverex: don't, that's an older version
[10:34] <crimsun> I'm fixing it atm
[10:35] <Enverex> ah, heh
[10:35] <Enverex> It's not really my package anymore is it, lol
[10:35] <crimsun> sure it is
[10:35] <Enverex> I wish this all wasn't so stupidly complicated
[10:35] <crimsun> I certainly don't intend to oversee its maintenance :-)
[10:36] <Enverex> Sure as hell not as easy as "./configure && make all && sudo make install"
[10:40] <Yagisan> morning ajmitch
[10:48] <sistpoty> hi folks
[10:49] <Enverex> lo
[10:53] <bddebian> Heya sistpoty
[10:53] <sistpoty> hi bddebian
[10:53] <crimsun> man, this source package really is fgly
[10:53] <crimsun> Enverex: Makefile doesn't have a distclean target; you'll have to use clean
[10:54] <bddebian> Haha, kiss my ass grass!
[10:54] <Enverex> I don't even know what distclean is/does anyway, heh
[10:54] <sistpoty> bddebian: did you actually upload gfceu or fceu-server?
[10:55] <bddebian> sistpoty: No, not yet.  I wasn't sure if there was any type of automated process
[10:55] <sistpoty> bddebian: none that I know of *g*
[10:56] <crimsun> yosch: have you sent the debdiff?
[10:56] <yosch> crimsun: I'm about to press the send button
[10:56] <sistpoty> bddebian: I'll upload these now... or do you want to do it?
[10:56] <bddebian> sistpoty: Please do, thanks
[10:56] <crimsun> I have terrible timing :-)
[10:57] <sistpoty> bddebian: ack ;)
[11:02] <yosch> crimsun: waiting for your feedback now :-D
[11:03] <crimsun> yosch: I'm reviewing Enverex's packaging, will read e-mail in ~15 mins
[11:03] <Enverex> crimsun, Is spending weeks on a package common? I mean if it takes you hours then it would take me a month or so, assuming I ever manage to get it working
[11:03] <yosch> crimsun: great
[11:04] <bddebian> Enverex: It can be when first learning yes.  I spent quite a while building a newer version of attal and I have been doing some of this for a while
[11:04] <bddebian> gah, freakin' python2.3 packages
[11:04] <Enverex> I just don't know if it's worth the time/payoff ratio =/
[11:04] <crimsun> Enverex: if I devoted my complete attention to this package, I could get it done quickly, but I'm juggling several things atm
[11:05] <bddebian> Well I annoy just about everyone in Ubuntu and I still do it ;-P
[11:06] <crimsun> Enverex: I'll review my changes with you in a sec
[11:06] <Enverex> k
[11:07] <crimsun> sec->~3 mins
[11:07] <Enverex> I managed to get UADE working before but that was without split packages
[11:08] <bddebian> Ack, mayavi needs python policy update :-(
[11:08] <crimsun> that should give you unspeakable joy, barry.
[11:08] <crimsun> you LOVE the python transition.
[11:08] <bddebian> Oh yeah, I don't even know if I did it right yet :-)
[11:11] <crimsun> Enverex: http://sh.nu/~crimsun/uade/
[11:12] <crimsun> Enverex: wget those three files, and ``pbuilder build uade_2.02-0ubuntu1.dsc''
[11:12] <Enverex> overwrite my old files?
[11:12] <crimsun> Enverex: now, an explanation of the changes and some comments.
[11:12] <crimsun> yes.
[11:12] <crimsun> I'll only be explaining debian/*
[11:13] <crimsun> first, debian/rules:
[11:13] <crimsun> in the config.status target, you need --package-prefix=$(CURDIR)/debian/tmp
[11:13] <crimsun> the reason is that you'll use dh_install(1) to move the files from debian/tmp/ to the correct packages
[11:15] <crimsun> next, in the build-stamp target, you only need $(MAKE) since the Makefile* have not been modified to accept DESTDIR
[11:16] <crimsun> next, in the clean target, you can't use -$(MAKE) distclean since that [distclean]  target doesn't exist. You need -$(MAKE) clean instead
[11:17] <crimsun> sorry, the penultimate comment was meant for the install target, and consequently, $(MAKE) install
[11:17] <crimsun> finally, in the binary-arch target, the reason you didn't have the correct files in the xmms-* package is that you neglected to call dh_install --sourcedir=debian/tmp
[11:18] <bddebian> LaserJock: Your package list is just too freakin' long ;-P
[11:18] <crimsun> now, debian/uade123.install:
[11:19] <crimsun> usr/share/uade2, which was mistakenly in xmms-uade.install, I moved here temporarily
[11:20] <crimsun> it's still semantically incorrect for the following reason: Ideally you need a uade package (and thus uade.install) that has usr/share/uade2, because I highly doubt all those usr/share/uade2/* are necessary for uade123
[11:21] <crimsun> that just about covers it
[11:22] <crimsun> the key point is that to use foo.install, you need to actually call dh_install, which you weren't doing in debian/rules, and thus nothing was getting moved
[11:25] <crimsun> yosch: looks fine to me; we await mdz's comments and/or approval
[11:25] <Enverex> The uade2 folder needs to be installed for each package (although it would be the same files) as it contains the global configs for it
[11:26] <yosch> crimsun: what do you think about the changelog entries?
[11:26] <crimsun> yosch: non-issue
[11:26] <yosch> crimsun: because, in a sense it's a new package
[11:26] <yosch> crimsun: OK
[11:26] <crimsun> Enverex: then you need a uade-common package on which both uade123 and xmms-uade depend
[11:26] <LaserJock> bddebian: which one?
[11:26] <Enverex> ugh >.<
[11:27] <bddebian> LaserJock: Science packages :-)
[11:27] <yosch> crimsun: no need to make the package Ubuntu-specific
[11:27] <LaserJock> shesh, there's only 450 of them ;-)
[11:27] <LaserJock> what are you complaining about ;-)
[11:27] <crimsun> yosch: there are some minor things like having the distribution in debian/changelog be 'dapper-updates' (or 'dapper-backports' if mdz wants that)
[11:27] <LaserJock> bddebian: don't worry, you've helped out a ton already
[11:27] <crimsun> yosch: and the version would be (1.02-1ubuntu1.1)
[11:28] <LaserJock> bddebian: I'll get to work soon as well
[11:28] <bddebian> LaserJock: No worries, it makes me feel somewhat useful :-)
[11:28] <crimsun> Enverex: it's pretty easy to make that change
[11:29] <yosch> crimsun: OK, I'll wait for mdz's comments but the idea was to have the same version name for the package for both Debian and Ubuntu
[11:29] <Enverex> ok, thanks
[11:29] <crimsun> just create uade2-common.install, move usr/share/uade2 into it, add uade2-common in debian/control, and have both xmms-uade and uade123 Depend on it
[11:31] <Amaranth> crimsun: what was the command you had me use to see what was using my sound modules?
[11:31] <crimsun> yosch: there's already a delta because of the Ubuntu packaging, so I would merge the changelog entries (keeping both the current ones and adding yours), so it's not really possible to have them in sync for dapper-{updates|backport} and unstable
[11:31] <crimsun> Amaranth: lsof /dev/dsp* /dev/snd/*
[11:31] <crimsun> Enverex: those comments should get you about 50% through REVU
[11:32] <Amaranth> ah, ok
[11:32] <Amaranth> /dev/snd/* is alsa stuff, isn't it?
[11:32] <crimsun> Amaranth: yes
[11:32] <yosch> crimsun: OK, It makes sense, I'm merging and resending the diff + reposting the source packages
[11:32] <crimsun> yosch: great, thanks
[11:32] <Amaranth> lsof /dev/dsp gives me nothing, i guess vmware is complaining about something else...
[11:32] <Amaranth> thanks though
[11:32] <crimsun> error message?
[11:33] <crimsun> I'm in #ubuntu
[11:39] <bddebian> Heya \sh
[11:39] <\sh> hey bddebian
[11:40] <sistpoty> hi \sh
[11:40] <\sh> sistpoty: how are you doing? long time no see :)
[11:40] <LaserJock> woah! sistpoty and \sh
[11:40] <crimsun> hey \sh && sistpoty
[11:40] <LaserJock> hi!
[11:41] <sistpoty> \sh: fine... finally I got a little bit more spare time... and how about you?
[11:41] <sistpoty> hey LaserJock
[11:41] <sistpoty> hey crimsun ;)
[11:42] <\sh> sistpoty: sitting at the linuxhotel in essen with some FAI developers
[11:42] <sistpoty> oh... nice
[11:43] <LaserJock> rraphink must be there too
[11:43] <\sh> sistpoty: yeah he is sitting outside...and has some problems with his laptop
[11:43] <sistpoty> ^^ LaserJock even ;)
[11:44] <sistpoty> btw.: I've finally made a new rant^W FAQ entry in CommonPackagingMistakes... debian/copyright
[11:45] <bddebian> :-)
[11:46] <FunnyLookinHat> us.archive.ubuntu.com still down, huh?
[11:46] <FunnyLookinHat> :-/
[11:46] <rraphink> hi LaserJock
[11:46] <LaserJock> hi rraphink
[11:47] <rraphink> just got back to my room and got a lease again :)
[11:47] <rraphink> at last
[11:47] <rraphink> somehow I couln't connect in the garden anymore :(
[11:47] <LaserJock> sistpoty: oh good, keep the rants up and I'll put them in the Packaging Guide
[11:47] <rraphink> hop
[11:47] <sistpoty> LaserJock: will do, once I find more common errors whilst reviewing
[11:49] <\sh> it@s raphinks new toy ;)
[11:49] <LaserJock> oh boy
[11:50] <sistpoty> sheesh... i wrote debian wiki in the mail...
[11:53] <LaserJock> bddebian: re MOTU/Mentors, thanks!
[11:54] <bddebian> LaserJock: NP, though I don't know if I can be of any help :-)
[11:56] <LaserJock> bddebian: sure you can
[11:56] <LaserJock> right now I've mostly been introducing people to the ML, this channel, and useful guides
[12:00] <bddebian> sistpoty: ??
[12:01] <sistpoty> ok... I guess I shouldn't mentor ppl. in this topic, should I? ;)
[12:01] <LaserJock> sistpoty: thanks for signing up!
[12:01] <sistpoty> LaserJock: np ;)
[12:01] <bddebian> sistpoty: I'm not sure I got what you meant :-)
[12:02] <sistpoty> bddebian: I meant "peeving bddebian" as active area for mentoring... the quotes where lost somehow
[12:02] <bddebian> sistpoty: "peeving" is the part that is confusing me :-)
[12:03] <LaserJock> bddebian: oh for goodness sakes, just laugh at it and move on ;-)
[12:03] <sistpoty> bah... I looked it up in the dictionary... as in annoying (and I didn't ever hear of any other words the dict mentioned)
[12:04] <crimsun> that ought to be a requirement for membership :-p
[12:04] <bddebian> Oh, hehe.  I usually hear peeved as in pissed off :-)