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| DaSkreech | Hobbsee: Hello | 03:49 |
|---|---|---|
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| Hobbsee | hi DaSkreech, everyone else :) | 03:52 |
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| Hobbsee | hi imbrandon_ | 05:03 |
| Hobbsee | eek, now i think my wifi's really screwed. | 05:03 |
| imbrandon_ | heya Hobbsee ;) | 05:03 |
| Hobbsee | root@sarah:~/Desktop# ndiswrapper -l | 05:06 |
| Hobbsee | bash: ndiswrapper: command not found | 05:06 |
| Hobbsee | sigh. | 05:06 |
| DaSkreech | Hobbsee: Did a kernel upgrade? | 05:06 |
| imbrandon_ | sudo apt-get install ndiswrapper-utils ;) | 05:06 |
| Hobbsee | DaSkreech: nope, but i went back to the old version of ndiswrapper, as the newer one wasnt workign with knm | 05:06 |
| === imbrandon_ hates ndiswrapper | ||
| imbrandon_ | woot almost done portage syncing | 05:07 |
| Hobbsee | root@sarah:~/Desktop# modprobe ndiswrapper | 05:08 |
| Hobbsee | FATAL: Module ndiswrapper not found. | 05:08 |
| Hobbsee | it's screwed. | 05:08 |
| imbrandon_ | ouch | 05:08 |
| Hobbsee | which happened before | 05:08 |
| Hobbsee | bye all | 05:08 |
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| aliasfred | just in case it is not already known, wiki.kubuntu.org seems down, replying 'connnection refused' | 08:54 |
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| crimsun | eh? Seems up to me. | 09:36 |
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| Tonio_ | hey | 12:27 |
| Tonio_ | is someone using edgy here ? | 12:28 |
| Tonio_ | I'm trying to get katapult running without any success | 12:28 |
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| Hobbsee | hi all | 01:21 |
| toma | hi Hobbsee, you're up late | 01:27 |
| Hobbsee | @time sydney | 01:27 |
| Ubugtu | Current time in Australia/Sydney: July 23 2006, 21:27:49 | 01:27 |
| Hobbsee | toma: i'm likely to be up for another 5 hours or so :P | 01:27 |
| toma | hmm, i thought you just got up | 01:29 |
| toma | nm, my head is elsewhere | 01:29 |
| Hobbsee | :P | 01:29 |
| Tonio_ | hey | 01:39 |
| Hobbsee | hi Tonio_! | 01:39 |
| Tonio_ | hi Hobbsee, toma | 01:39 |
| toma | hey ! | 01:39 |
| Tonio_ | I'm getting nuts in trying to understand why katapult fails on edgy | 01:39 |
| Tonio_ | look like an xorg issue | 01:39 |
| Hobbsee | Tonio_: it does? works here | 01:39 |
| Tonio_ | Hobbsee: with edgy ? | 01:40 |
| Hobbsee | Tonio_: yep | 01:40 |
| Tonio_ | hum, local problem so.... | 01:40 |
| Hobbsee | Sysinfo for 'sarah': Linux 2.6.17-5-686 running KDE 3.5.3, CPU: Mobile Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 2.40GHz at 2394 MHz (4793 bogomips), HD: 19/36GB, RAM: 567/995MB, 104 proc's, 21.38min up | 01:40 |
| Hobbsee | definetly edgy. | 01:40 |
| Tonio_ | Hobbsee: are you up to date ? how do you find the latest changes I've done to kopete and konqueror ? | 01:40 |
| Hobbsee | Tonio_: wha'td you do to kopete? | 01:40 |
| Hobbsee | i havent updated this afternoon, no | 01:40 |
| Tonio_ | Hobbsee: open a discussion and put the cursor on the tab icon :) | 01:41 |
| Hobbsee | Tonio_: a discussion? | 01:41 |
| Tonio_ | it displays a close button | 01:41 |
| Tonio_ | and same for konqueror | 01:41 |
| Hobbsee | oh yeah, i got k-d-s this morning, that's right | 01:41 |
| Tonio_ | Hobbsee: not only kds, I had to patch kopete sources to get that working | 01:41 |
| Tonio_ | and kdelibs with the help of toma too | 01:41 |
| Hobbsee | Tonio_: um, okay, which sources did you patch? did you patch mine on revu, the current edgy, or what? | 01:42 |
| Tonio_ | I patched the current edgy | 01:42 |
| Tonio_ | but the sources that are in universe, not kdenetwork | 01:42 |
| Tonio_ | Accepted: | 01:43 |
| Tonio_ | OK: kopete_3.5.3+kopete0.12.0-0ubuntu4.dsc | 01:43 |
| Tonio_ | -> Component: universe Section: kde | 01:43 |
| Hobbsee | okay, so i was told it was going into main. | 01:44 |
| Hobbsee | Tonio_: there's a UVF exception in for 0.12.1 - but i dont think mdz has replied to it yet | 01:44 |
| Tonio_ | Hobbsee: yes we need to wait at the moment | 01:45 |
| === Hobbsee wonders why Tonio_ didnt patch against 0.12.1 | ||
| Tonio_ | Hobbsee: how do you find the changes ? | 01:46 |
| Hobbsee | Tonio_: well, i cant figure out hwo to open a discussion, so.... | 01:46 |
| Tonio_ | Hobbsee: simply because I know your package is gonna replace it :) | 01:46 |
| Tonio_ | oups okay | 01:46 |
| Hobbsee | Tonio_: er, and you're not wanting your patch in my new package? | 01:46 |
| Hobbsee | oh, and i'm using 0.12.1, too... | 01:46 |
| Tonio_ | I didn't patch because I wanted it in edgy for people to test | 01:46 |
| Tonio_ | then we'll port the patch if people like it | 01:47 |
| Tonio_ | it is very easy to do | 01:47 |
| Hobbsee | Tonio_: isnt that the idea of edgy? it's development, ie testing? | 01:47 |
| Tonio_ | the patch is one line only | 01:47 |
| Tonio_ | Hobbsee: yes, so what is the issue ? | 01:47 |
| Tonio_ | is 0.12.1 in edgy already ? | 01:47 |
| Hobbsee | Tonio_: no, it's not. | 01:47 |
| Tonio_ | that's why I didn't do it :) | 01:48 |
| Tonio_ | Hobbsee: you can port the patch if you want | 01:48 |
| Tonio_ | pretty easy to do | 01:48 |
| Tonio_ | Hobbsee: ho and talking about edgy, do you have issues with fonts too ? | 01:48 |
| Tonio_ | my fonts are quite crappy | 01:48 |
| Hobbsee | Tonio_: actually, what i'd like to do is to poke mdz to approve the UVF exception, so we dont have 3 branches of the same app. | 01:48 |
| Tonio_ | Hobbsee: true | 01:49 |
| Tonio_ | we'll add the patch after this | 01:49 |
| Tonio_ | you're right on that point | 01:49 |
| Hobbsee | fonts are different, but i've grown to like it | 01:49 |
| Tonio_ | Hobbsee: to me that's not different, that dirty | 01:49 |
| Tonio_ | they don't feet with the screen | 01:49 |
| Hobbsee | also, that's supposed to be in main, i'm told. however, p.u.c says it's in uni, you say it's in uni, katie says it's in uni, so it really must be in universe. | 01:49 |
| Hobbsee | i think it's katie - whatever generates the accepted/rejected mails | 01:50 |
| Hobbsee | Tonio_: of course, there's an easy way to check - i try uploading it :P | 01:50 |
| Tonio_ | Hobbsee: in fact we have 2 versions of kopete in edgy | 01:50 |
| Tonio_ | the one provided by kdenetwork | 01:50 |
| Tonio_ | and your package | 01:50 |
| Tonio_ | if we want your in main, we should patch kdenetwork to remove the kopete package from it | 01:51 |
| Hobbsee | Tonio_: yep, true | 01:51 |
| Tonio_ | also there is an issue with your package.... | 01:51 |
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| Tonio_ | universe dep | 01:51 |
| Hobbsee | Tonio_: yeah, Riddell was going to do that, but kde 3.5.4 will be out soon, so he was going to patch it there. | 01:51 |
| Hobbsee | hi rraphink | 01:51 |
| Hobbsee | Tonio_: ah, which dep was that? | 01:51 |
| === Hobbsee has to do dishes - back in a sec | ||
| Tonio_ | Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, libjasper-runtime | 01:52 |
| Tonio_ | this one is universe | 01:52 |
| Tonio_ | that will cause an issue for main inclusion | 01:53 |
| rraphink | hi Hobbsee | 01:55 |
| Hobbsee | hey... Tonio_....this thing's really in universe, right? | 01:57 |
| Hobbsee | (so Riddell was wrong in saying it was in main, presumably) | 01:57 |
| Hobbsee | Tonio_: tell me why we're waiting on a UVF? | 01:57 |
| Tonio_ | Hobbsee: yes | 01:57 |
| Hobbsee | exception? | 01:57 |
| Tonio_ | Hobbsee: because of main inclusion report | 01:57 |
| Tonio_ | :) | 01:57 |
| Hobbsee | this thing's probably going to go to main later in the release? | 01:58 |
| Tonio_ | but yes could make sense to upload latest to universe and main inclusio after this | 01:58 |
| Hobbsee | Tonio_: it's not in main yet - presumably we can keep upgrading it while it's in universe/ | 01:58 |
| Tonio_ | would make it easier | 01:58 |
| Hobbsee | much easier. | 01:58 |
| Tonio_ | I agree | 01:58 |
| Hobbsee | okay, i'll try it ;0 | 01:58 |
| Hobbsee | :) | 01:58 |
| Tonio_ | make: *** /lib/modules/2.6.17-5-386/build: Aucun fichier ou rpertoire de ce type. Arrt. | 01:59 |
| Tonio_ | why don't we have a build symlink ? | 01:59 |
| Tonio_ | pf | 01:59 |
| Tonio_ | my stupidity........ | 02:01 |
| Hobbsee | Tonio_: why are you on -386 anyway? | 02:03 |
| Hobbsee | Tonio_: ah yeah, guess we'd need to get that bumped to main too maybe, depending on it's deps. | 02:03 |
| Hobbsee | Tonio_: where was your patch for kopete? | 02:06 |
| Hobbsee | Tonio_: seems a bit silly to upload kopete twice | 02:06 |
| Tonio_ | Hobbsee: want the patch via dcc ? | 02:07 |
| Hobbsee | Tonio_: probably email. hobbsee@ubuntu.com | 02:07 |
| Hobbsee | patch is good, yep :) | 02:07 |
| Tonio_ | the email is gone | 02:08 |
| Tonio_ | Hobbsee: you might need the changelog now no ? | 02:08 |
| Hobbsee | Tonio_: i dont understand | 02:09 |
| Tonio_ | what ? | 02:09 |
| Hobbsee | i might need to change the changelog? yeah | 02:09 |
| Tonio_ | well if you upload your new package, since my one is already in universe, you need to take the changelog informations | 02:09 |
| Tonio_ | makes sense no ? | 02:09 |
| Tonio_ | Hobbsee: i /msg the changelog entry to you | 02:11 |
| Hobbsee | Tonio_: yeah, the idea does, i just didnt understand what you actually said :P | 02:12 |
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| Hobbsee | Riddell: ping? | 02:25 |
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| Hobbsee | fabo: you around? | 02:34 |
| Hobbsee | hi birthdaylogger! | 02:34 |
| birthdaylogger | ahoy Hobbsee | 02:34 |
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| Tonio_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tL6E7R4IbCM | 02:51 |
| Tonio_ | LOL ;) | 02:52 |
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| Hobbsee | Tonio_: ping? | 03:48 |
| Hobbsee | [23:47] <Thucydides> KDE 3.5.4 is about to be tagged. Will kopete 0.12.1 be merged? This was discussed on kde-devel and approved, but I don't see a merge. | 03:50 |
| Hobbsee | [23:47] <mattr> no, it will not be merged | 03:50 |
| Tonio_ | Hobbsee: okay kool | 03:50 |
| Hobbsee | Tonio_: which is what i suspected. anyway, that'll help us in our discussions. | 03:51 |
| Tonio_ | yes | 03:55 |
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| bddebian | Hello | 04:06 |
| birthdaylogger | Tonio_: you already talked to someone concering a google earth license? | 04:07 |
| Tonio_ | birthdaylogger: nope | 04:10 |
| Tonio_ | there is no change we get one ;) | 04:10 |
| Tonio_ | no chance | 04:10 |
| birthdaylogger | Tonio_: oh, why so? | 04:10 |
| birthdaylogger | google is not interested in distributing their software? Oo | 04:11 |
| Tonio_ | birthdaylogger: because google doesn't do anything to promote free software | 04:11 |
| Tonio_ | and has the same licencing vision than apple or microsof | 04:11 |
| birthdaylogger | though they support FOSS don't they? | 04:11 |
| Tonio_ | with a bit of hypocrite way to do that microsoft doesn't have | 04:11 |
| birthdaylogger | and they finance trolltech :D | 04:11 |
| Tonio_ | birthdaylogger: in theory.... | 04:12 |
| birthdaylogger | well, most of their APIs are open | 04:12 |
| Tonio_ | can you give me an good example of free code they have written ? | 04:12 |
| Tonio_ | they are for standards yes | 04:12 |
| birthdaylogger | well | 04:12 |
| Tonio_ | they like standards and open technology | 04:12 |
| birthdaylogger | do they have to open their code? | 04:12 |
| Tonio_ | but certainly not free software | 04:12 |
| birthdaylogger | they featured wine | 04:12 |
| birthdaylogger | and they do code contributions to mozilla | 04:13 |
| Tonio_ | birthdaylogger: because it was better than providing a real linux application probably | 04:13 |
| Tonio_ | ? | 04:13 |
| Tonio_ | wine is evil | 04:13 |
| birthdaylogger | well, it is FOSS | 04:13 |
| birthdaylogger | you can't say google doesn't support FOSS | 04:13 |
| birthdaylogger | as it is not true | 04:13 |
| Tonio_ | yes, but it is the best reason for companies not to develop on linux | 04:13 |
| Tonio_ | well that's a too big debate ;) | 04:13 |
| birthdaylogger | well, google is aiming to make money | 04:14 |
| Tonio_ | the point is honnestly, I don't think, not even a second, that google will allow us to provide a package | 04:14 |
| birthdaylogger | we can ask | 04:14 |
| Tonio_ | birthdaylogger: trolltech too, and intel too :) | 04:14 |
| birthdaylogger | and as google aims to make money it's not very unlikely | 04:14 |
| Tonio_ | but intel favors foss more than google in my view | 04:14 |
| birthdaylogger | opera allowed to package as well?! | 04:15 |
| Tonio_ | google is like apple | 04:15 |
| birthdaylogger | apple is support khtml | 04:15 |
| birthdaylogger | *ing | 04:15 |
| Tonio_ | they talk about free software, they use it as much as they need it, and they provide proprietary stuff to make money | 04:15 |
| Tonio_ | I can't accept that | 04:15 |
| Tonio_ | microsoft way to do is better | 04:15 |
| Tonio_ | they don't want to make free software, so they don't use free softtware, and don't talk about it | 04:16 |
| Tonio_ | ;) | 04:16 |
| Tonio_ | apple supports khtml because kde people asked for the code | 04:16 |
| Tonio_ | at the very begening, they simply got a 20 mbits patch absolutly unreadable | 04:16 |
| Tonio_ | what did apple do with osx ? | 04:17 |
| Tonio_ | take the best of free software under lgpl or bsd licence | 04:17 |
| Tonio_ | make proprietary os with their own proprietary stuff in their, | 04:17 |
| Tonio_ | had a bunch of drm inside | 04:17 |
| Tonio_ | and sold it...... | 04:17 |
| Tonio_ | this company is honnestly 10 times worst than microsoft regarding to their hypocrits acts... | 04:18 |
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| birthdaylogger | Tonio_: MS is using FOSS as well | 04:18 |
| birthdaylogger | anyway, you can't wait for such big comapnies to open their code | 04:19 |
| Tonio_ | birthdaylogger: I've worked for MS | 04:19 |
| Tonio_ | they generally favor unix to linux because it is not free software | 04:19 |
| Tonio_ | and yes, MS is hypocrit too, but honnestly not as much as apple or google | 04:20 |
| Tonio_ | because they never pretend to be "fan of FOSS" and friends of "the FOSS world" | 04:20 |
| Tonio_ | birthdaylogger: HP opens its code, intel does so | 04:20 |
| Tonio_ | aren't they big companies ? | 04:20 |
| birthdaylogger | sure they are | 04:21 |
| birthdaylogger | but they are 2 against 100 | 04:21 |
| Tonio_ | seriously, is picasa port to linux acceptable ? | 04:21 |
| Tonio_ | even googleearth | 04:21 |
| Tonio_ | they didn't do any effort to respect linux HUIs | 04:21 |
| birthdaylogger | what's the problem with the google earth port? | 04:21 |
| birthdaylogger | they want it to be similar to the windows version | 04:22 |
| Tonio_ | it doesn't respect the linux file system structure | 04:22 |
| birthdaylogger | so they can't break their own HUI used for their windows apps | 04:22 |
| birthdaylogger | ? | 04:22 |
| birthdaylogger | why not? | 04:22 |
| Tonio_ | is requires to be launched as root | 04:22 |
| Tonio_ | which makes it a problem for the security | 04:22 |
| birthdaylogger | it doesn't do | 04:22 |
| Tonio_ | honnestly, the only reason they did a port and not a wine thing is because is was developed in QT on windows | 04:23 |
| birthdaylogger | it saves every config etc. to ~./googleearth | 04:23 |
| Tonio_ | that's the only reason | 04:23 |
| Tonio_ | birthdaylogger: hum, I'd like to see it, since I tested it a month ago and it couldn't be launched as simple user | 04:23 |
| birthdaylogger | of course this is the reason, but as I said ... they want to make money, so there needs to be a market for their software | 04:23 |
| Tonio_ | birthdaylogger: I don't criticize the fact they don't do open source code | 04:24 |
| birthdaylogger | Tonio_: there was no new version since first beta release | 04:24 |
| Tonio_ | I criticize the fact they are trying to play on both side in an hypocrit way | 04:24 |
| Tonio_ | birthdaylogger: then I'd like to see it :) | 04:24 |
| Tonio_ | did you install using their .bin file ? | 04:24 |
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| Tonio_ | once that's installed, you cannot launched it as simple user without playing manually with chmod rights | 04:25 |
| birthdaylogger | yeah | 04:25 |
| birthdaylogger | Tonio_: you installed in system resource? | 04:25 |
| Tonio_ | I installed in /opt | 04:25 |
| birthdaylogger | might be a bug in the loki installer | 04:25 |
| birthdaylogger | but actually nothing more than a bug | 04:25 |
| birthdaylogger | anyway, AFK | 04:26 |
| birthdaylogger | gotta visist some people ;-) | 04:26 |
| Tonio_ | honnestly, couldn't they provide at least an rpm version ? or a debian one ? | 04:26 |
| Tonio_ | do you know why they didn't ? | 04:26 |
| Tonio_ | because the file would have been copied on repos | 04:26 |
| Tonio_ | that's obvious | 04:26 |
| Tonio_ | I just respect google for one thing : they respect standards | 04:27 |
| Tonio_ | that the good point | 04:27 |
| birthdaylogger | Tonio_: no, loki installer is the most advanced version for supporting most distros | 04:30 |
| birthdaylogger | while if you package an RPM for redhat it might not work on suse or mandriva | 04:30 |
| Tonio_ | birthdaylogger: other solution could have been to give a binary tarball and let the packagers to the job ;) | 04:31 |
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| birthdaylogger | that's what we want to do - for our users, not for google | 04:31 |
| birthdaylogger | and it is much more work to ask every distro to package a binary thing | 04:31 |
| Tonio_ | birthdaylogger: the point is it is illegal | 04:31 |
| birthdaylogger | or get packagers which can build one for msot | 04:32 |
| Tonio_ | and that will probably not change since we ask for it | 04:32 |
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| Tonio_ | except on an illegal repo like the plf | 04:32 |
| Tonio_ | we can put it there, but that's it | 04:32 |
| birthdaylogger | Tonio_: it doesn't change the possability they give us a license | 04:32 |
| birthdaylogger | or they open up an own repo | 04:32 |
| Tonio_ | nope, but as plf exists and is plainly illegal, we can put the package their ;) | 04:33 |
| birthdaylogger | but we don't want to be illegal, do we? | 04:33 |
| aliasfred | about reporsitory, the 'new' repository for commercial software, anybody can enter ? or opera got a special deal with ubuntu ? | 04:33 |
| Tonio_ | birthdaylogger: do you use w32codecs ? | 04:33 |
| birthdaylogger | perfect solution would be to get a deal with google so that the package ends up in the canonical repo or something | 04:33 |
| birthdaylogger | Tonio_: no | 04:33 |
| Tonio_ | aliasfred: it is a deal with opera ues | 04:33 |
| Tonio_ | birthdaylogger: good response :) | 04:34 |
| Tonio_ | do we want to be illegal? sure no | 04:34 |
| Tonio_ | do we have the choice ? no | 04:34 |
| birthdaylogger | we have the possability to get a choice | 04:34 |
| Tonio_ | as marilliat's packages, they are not legal, but does he have another option ? no | 04:34 |
| Tonio_ | birthdaylogger: try ! | 04:34 |
| birthdaylogger | yeah :P | 04:34 |
| Tonio_ | no problem with it... | 04:35 |
| Tonio_ | I can bet my salary they won't even take a second to answer | 04:35 |
| birthdaylogger | Tonio_: they even wanted to do some cooperation with amarok | 04:35 |
| birthdaylogger | concerning their music search thingy | 04:35 |
| birthdaylogger | though one of our members forgot to answer :S | 04:36 |
| Tonio_ | birthdaylogger: google as 10000 project a day | 04:36 |
| birthdaylogger | it was a personalized answer | 04:36 |
| Tonio_ | and most of the time internet invents projects for them :) | 04:36 |
| Tonio_ | what I can see is google, 8 years claiming they LOOOOOOOOOOOOVE FOSS, not a fucking line of free code released.... | 04:36 |
| birthdaylogger | sure, but why shouldn't they be interessted when we support their stuff for free? | 04:36 |
| aliasfred | Tonio_: is there a way for a free of charge software to be included in the ubuntu repository ? a process to follow ? or "do your own repository and ask the user to point to it" is the only answer ? | 04:36 |
| birthdaylogger | Tonio_: again, they contributed code to at least wine and mozilla | 04:37 |
| birthdaylogger | I think they even done some work on vlc | 04:37 |
| Tonio_ | alias, there is a way to make it that is legal | 04:37 |
| birthdaylogger | not sure about that though | 04:37 |
| Tonio_ | make a debian package that doewnloads and installs the application | 04:37 |
| Tonio_ | that's perfectly legal | 04:37 |
| Tonio_ | birthdaylogger: no, vlc is developed by a french school, and a french isp | 04:38 |
| Tonio_ | certainly not google :) | 04:38 |
| birthdaylogger | mozilla is developed by google? | 04:38 |
| Tonio_ | they USE vlc yes, but they didn't do anything to promote it | 04:38 |
| birthdaylogger | why should they promote open source? | 04:38 |
| Tonio_ | birthdaylogger: they shouldn't | 04:38 |
| birthdaylogger | what point does open source have if we need companies to promote it? | 04:38 |
| Tonio_ | but they are TRYING to make people think they are | 04:39 |
| birthdaylogger | google even doesn't promote their own stuff | 04:39 |
| Tonio_ | good example is you ;) | 04:39 |
| birthdaylogger | nah | 04:39 |
| aliasfred | Tonio_: maybe my question is not at the proper moment, but all in my stuff is legal :) nothing about illegal, just to know about the policy to be included in the repositories such as 'apt-get install apps' does install it. without the manually edit sources.list stage :) | 04:39 |
| birthdaylogger | they support FOSS | 04:39 |
| Tonio_ | google helps vlc -> false, they just use it | 04:39 |
| birthdaylogger | they don't promote it | 04:39 |
| Tonio_ | they promote mozilla, that's true | 04:39 |
| Tonio_ | but to me google is just close to opensource to shit on microsoft | 04:40 |
| birthdaylogger | ah, they power it - as they think it's better for them | 04:40 |
| Tonio_ | when you look at their licencing, there is no much difference | 04:40 |
| birthdaylogger | any EULA looks that way | 04:40 |
| birthdaylogger | that's the point of a default EULA, why should you allow stupid people to do crap with your software? | 04:41 |
| aliasfred | ok i will reask later for my pacakge stuff :) | 04:41 |
| Tonio_ | but well, linux users hate microsoft and love google.... I don't understand why, but that's it, so let's stop there ;) | 04:41 |
| aliasfred | about google, they do give money for foss | 04:41 |
| birthdaylogger | why do we sign packages? | 04:41 |
| Tonio_ | aliasfred: summer of code ? mouarf :) | 04:41 |
| aliasfred | google summer of code is like 500kus | 04:41 |
| Hobbsee | birthdaylogger: so that the repositories know that hobbsee is actually hobbsee, not some imposter. | 04:41 |
| Tonio_ | that's nothing !!!!!!! | 04:41 |
| aliasfred | 72millions to mozilla | 04:41 |
| birthdaylogger | Hobbsee: right | 04:41 |
| Tonio_ | it is marketing genius, but that's all | 04:41 |
| birthdaylogger | so what should google do? | 04:41 |
| Hobbsee | birthdaylogger: and it means that you can upload from multiple computers, if ~/.gnupg is on there, and you've got the passphrase | 04:42 |
| birthdaylogger | gnugpg their code? | 04:42 |
| aliasfred | well then it is about their motivation | 04:42 |
| Tonio_ | can you imagin the ads done for google arround the world for only 500kus ? | 04:42 |
| birthdaylogger | every saw a gnugpg'ed code? | 04:42 |
| Hobbsee | birthdaylogger: no, the folder in home | 04:42 |
| aliasfred | but they do give money, the point of why they do give is another | 04:42 |
| birthdaylogger | Tonio_: they aim to make money | 04:42 |
| Tonio_ | aliasfred: yes, for mozilla I agree, they really help them | 04:42 |
| Tonio_ | because mozilla is for them a weapon to shit on microsoft | 04:42 |
| Tonio_ | birthdaylogger: what I see is that microsoft as code on sourceforge while google doesn't.... | 04:43 |
| birthdaylogger | microsoft is just doing what you say about google | 04:43 |
| Tonio_ | would I say MS is promoting FOSS ? no | 04:43 |
| birthdaylogger | make people think they promote/support/distribute FOSS | 04:43 |
| Tonio_ | but they have a partnership with xen, projects on sourceforge, they will support opendocument...... | 04:43 |
| birthdaylogger | they will just make money | 04:43 |
| Tonio_ | yes MS and google are exactly the same | 04:44 |
| birthdaylogger | MONEY MONEY AND EVEN MORE MONEY | 04:44 |
| birthdaylogger | that's all | 04:44 |
| aliasfred | ms knows they are going down, so they try not to drawn too fast | 04:44 |
| birthdaylogger | they follow the market | 04:44 |
| birthdaylogger | which is moving to FOSS | 04:44 |
| birthdaylogger | so MS is moving FOSS | 04:44 |
| Tonio_ | but in the foss world, MS is the ennemy, while google is "the good friend" | 04:44 |
| Tonio_ | that's a non-sense | 04:44 |
| aliasfred | well google doesnt have the evil history of ms | 04:45 |
| birthdaylogger | why should google be an enemy? they don't even say 'we might sue a code because he's hurting our patents' | 04:45 |
| birthdaylogger | MS does | 04:45 |
| birthdaylogger | just as the point of mono | 04:45 |
| Tonio_ | aliasfred: no, but what they prepare is even worse | 04:45 |
| birthdaylogger | MS doesn't say they will not sue them | 04:45 |
| birthdaylogger | they just say, not yet | 04:45 |
| aliasfred | Tonio_: what do they prepare ? | 04:45 |
| Tonio_ | consider the database they have | 04:45 |
| Tonio_ | I'm affraid by that | 04:46 |
| aliasfred | i know what you mean :) | 04:46 |
| birthdaylogger | google is in the O#F foundation | 04:46 |
| === aliasfred was a research in anonymity over the internet in zeroknowledge | ||
| birthdaylogger | grm | 04:46 |
| birthdaylogger | ODF group thingy | 04:46 |
| birthdaylogger | MS isn't | 04:46 |
| Tonio_ | all they do is oriented in "we want to know you, what you do, the websites you go, the girls you f*ck, etc..." | 04:46 |
| aliasfred | so i have good knowledge of the evil google may do :) | 04:46 |
| aliasfred | especially because it is under a single control :) | 04:47 |
| Tonio_ | gimme your files, store them on my server, gimme your mails, sign that I can read them, install my toolbar so I know what websites you like........ | 04:47 |
| aliasfred | and that a single subponea can deliver all this info to some evil guys :) | 04:47 |
| Tonio_ | excuse me, but that make me much more affraid than microsoft stupid war against standards | 04:47 |
| aliasfred | indead but how to fight it ? | 04:48 |
| aliasfred | all their apps are much better that any other alternatives | 04:48 |
| Tonio_ | what missed ? wireless google condoms to guess who and when do I fuck, and that's it.... | 04:48 |
| Tonio_ | honnestly, google apps are very little bits of code... | 04:48 |
| === Hobbsee wonders when #kubuntu-devel changed into #kubuntu-letsbitchaboutMSandGoogle | ||
| bddebian | heh | 04:49 |
| Tonio_ | can we compare google desktop search or any of thei software to oracle, ms sql server, ms exchange, windows 2003 or anything ? | 04:49 |
| aliasfred | dunno what you mean, but google apps are all very nice and have no comparitor :) | 04:49 |
| Tonio_ | honnestly, google makes a lot of money, but what they do doesn't impress me that much | 04:49 |
| aliasfred | well their search is the best | 04:50 |
| aliasfred | their mail system is the best too | 04:50 |
| Tonio_ | their search ingine yes | 04:50 |
| aliasfred | google earth is the only one | 04:50 |
| Tonio_ | their desktop search, no, for sure no | 04:50 |
| Tonio_ | aliasfred: they didn't develop google earth, they just bought it | 04:50 |
| Tonio_ | after this ? | 04:50 |
| Tonio_ | when I see people comparing google to ms.... | 04:50 |
| Tonio_ | that's ridiculous :) | 04:50 |
| aliasfred | ah google video | 04:51 |
| Tonio_ | 3 desktop softwares cannot be compared to the 300 softwares microsoft is developing | 04:51 |
| aliasfred | well not that bad all that :) | 04:51 |
| Tonio_ | aliasfred: the player is simply an hidden vlc, and yes, their web services are nice | 04:51 |
| aliasfred | i do agree about the danger of their database, but clearly they do much better product that competitors | 04:52 |
| aliasfred | so how to fight it ? | 04:52 |
| Tonio_ | google desktop search is far from beeing the bests | 04:53 |
| Tonio_ | google talk is very limited | 04:53 |
| aliasfred | i mean, for me it is faster to run gmail.com that thunderbird on my local box :) | 04:53 |
| Tonio_ | picasa is a simple bought software they didn't improved | 04:53 |
| Tonio_ | same for google earth | 04:53 |
| aliasfred | when i realized this ... :) | 04:53 |
| Tonio_ | okay, they have very good webservices, but that's it for me | 04:53 |
| aliasfred | so how to fight it ? :) | 04:54 |
| Tonio_ | I don't see google as a "monster of software development" | 04:54 |
| Tonio_ | people are fantasming that microsoft is currently reached by google......... | 04:54 |
| Tonio_ | the day google has a software like "visual studio", I will admit they can do good softwares | 04:54 |
| aliasfred | hehe ok i play evil for 30sec | 04:55 |
| bddebian | heh | 04:55 |
| Tonio_ | aliasfred: how ? well, just use the necessary from google and ignore the reste | 04:55 |
| aliasfred | how much software ubuntu does ? | 04:55 |
| Tonio_ | I have better than gmail | 04:55 |
| aliasfred | like 0 ? :) | 04:55 |
| aliasfred | ubuntu doesnt write code or very negligible :) | 04:55 |
| Tonio_ | aliasfred: yes, but nobody talk about canonical as a "monster of the software development" | 04:55 |
| aliasfred | still it is good :) | 04:55 |
| Tonio_ | while everybody wants to oppose google to microsoft....... | 04:56 |
| aliasfred | they opposose the power they have | 04:56 |
| Tonio_ | for one line of code written by google, MS has probably 10000 lines of code at least | 04:56 |
| aliasfred | not the amount of code written | 04:56 |
| Tonio_ | honnestly, that's uncomparable too | 04:56 |
| Tonio_ | the only thing that makes google so powerfull is ads | 04:57 |
| aliasfred | in anycase i considere google as the only chance linux have to reach critical mass :) | 04:57 |
| Tonio_ | the day that goes off, they will have real issues | 04:57 |
| Tonio_ | not myself | 04:57 |
| Tonio_ | I consider linux will never reach critical mass | 04:57 |
| aliasfred | who gonna pay the OEM to put linux on their box ? | 04:57 |
| Tonio_ | not today, and not in 10 years | 04:57 |
| aliasfred | and pay more that ms :) | 04:57 |
| aliasfred | well i say 5years :) | 04:57 |
| Tonio_ | never | 04:58 |
| aliasfred | so we disagree :) | 04:58 |
| Tonio_ | 10 percent of the market is the maximum linux can have | 04:58 |
| Tonio_ | you know why ? | 04:58 |
| Tonio_ | look at firefox | 04:58 |
| aliasfred | tell me | 04:58 |
| Tonio_ | lots of money spent with ads | 04:58 |
| Tonio_ | marketing | 04:58 |
| Tonio_ | everyone trying to convince his neighboor | 04:58 |
| Tonio_ | a great software | 04:58 |
| Tonio_ | by far better than the microsoft's one | 04:59 |
| bddebian | Because GNU/Linux is written by developers for developers, that's why :-) | 04:59 |
| Tonio_ | everything is done to make it a success | 04:59 |
| Tonio_ | and it is certainly not a "big success" | 04:59 |
| Tonio_ | it has about 17% of the market | 04:59 |
| Tonio_ | IE still has 80%, when it's sucking, features laking etc......... | 04:59 |
| aliasfred | Tonio_: ok, but what is the relation with 'linux reaching critical mass' ? | 04:59 |
| === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.64.118] has joined #kubuntu-devel | ||
| Tonio_ | I mean, everyone talks about IE to be going to be defeat by firefox.... | 05:00 |
| Hobbsee | hi freeflying | 05:00 |
| Tonio_ | I would like to be defeated with 80% of the market | 05:00 |
| Tonio_ | IE's market share is still bigger that ipod's one ! | 05:00 |
| aliasfred | what is the relation with anyuthing | 05:00 |
| Tonio_ | nobody seems to realise this | 05:00 |
| Tonio_ | aliasfred: the point is that it is too late for linux to reach the mass | 05:01 |
| Tonio_ | microsoft is there | 05:01 |
| aliasfred | ? | 05:01 |
| Tonio_ | the only chance we have is by putting linux in schools | 05:01 |
| Tonio_ | but starting to make things changing will take at least one complete generation | 05:01 |
| aliasfred | Tonio_: it is unargumented stattement :) | 05:01 |
| Tonio_ | aliasfred: do people want something else ? mostly no | 05:02 |
| Tonio_ | here is the point | 05:02 |
| aliasfred | Tonio_: you say 'linux will never reach critical mass' then 'because firefox has only 20% of the market even if the product is much better' | 05:02 |
| aliasfred | ah ok | 05:02 |
| aliasfred | this one is a arguement | 05:02 |
| Tonio_ | I'm just saying that as long as the people don't wan't it, that'll never change | 05:02 |
| aliasfred | you fell that window user are satisfied and so wont switch to another product if they have the choise | 05:02 |
| Tonio_ | the point is that viruses and crashes are now acceptable for them | 05:03 |
| Tonio_ | "that always happens and is normal with informatics" | 05:03 |
| aliasfred | well your example about firefox teachs us something, the cost of switching is very high for the final user | 05:03 |
| Tonio_ | so they are comfortable with windows | 05:03 |
| aliasfred | but in 2 years from now, ubuntu will be vastly better than vista | 05:04 |
| Tonio_ | aliasfred: yes, very hight, but imagin that firefox doesn't replace anything, is easy to replace, and doesn't imply any infos losing | 05:04 |
| Tonio_ | can you imagin the fear of switching to linux ? | 05:04 |
| aliasfred | exactly like firefox is vastly better that IE | 05:04 |
| aliasfred | so why would they switch ? | 05:04 |
| aliasfred | one point is the price :) | 05:04 |
| Tonio_ | if linux had a chance to reach the mass, firefox would have 70% of the market to day | 05:04 |
| Tonio_ | but that will not happen | 05:04 |
| Tonio_ | 17% is the maximum | 05:04 |
| aliasfred | how much do i give to ms when i buy a computer ? | 05:05 |
| Tonio_ | when IE7 is released, firefox will go back to <10% market share | 05:05 |
| Tonio_ | aliasfred: too much :) | 05:05 |
| aliasfred | with the ms license bundled in it | 05:05 |
| aliasfred | yep but how much is this ? | 05:05 |
| Tonio_ | I would say like 40 | 05:05 |
| Tonio_ | maybe 30 | 05:05 |
| Tonio_ | it depends on the brand in fact :) | 05:05 |
| Tonio_ | dell has certainly better prices that a little asian company | 05:06 |
| Tonio_ | but oem licences are not that expensive in fact | 05:06 |
| aliasfred | ok now imagine you go to auchan/kmart and the vendor tell you 'ok this is 30euro less if you take ubuntu" here is a box running ubuntu | 05:06 |
| Tonio_ | aliasfred: nobody will want to take the risk | 05:06 |
| aliasfred | and you see fancy eyes candy like xgl and 3d window like looking glass | 05:06 |
| Tonio_ | they would prefer to by a "HEWLET PACKARD" with "MICROSOFT "inside | 05:07 |
| aliasfred | relax and imagine | 05:07 |
| Tonio_ | and of course | 05:07 |
| Tonio_ | they are completly lost if they don't see the "intel inside" logo on th computer | 05:07 |
| Tonio_ | becuase only intel allows wireless on the top of north pole | 05:07 |
| Tonio_ | ;) | 05:07 |
| aliasfred | you are the customer, you pay less, you have better software, will you ask yourself "hey maybe i should try" ? :) | 05:08 |
| Tonio_ | honnestly, the mass is too stupid to even think about making a choice | 05:08 |
| Tonio_ | well I and you are probably more intelligent that 80% of the people | 05:08 |
| Tonio_ | since we all seem to be able to make a choice | 05:08 |
| aliasfred | you are having a bad day, or you are always like that ? :) | 05:08 |
| Tonio_ | the "critical mass" is generally "critically stupid" | 05:09 |
| Tonio_ | hum | 05:09 |
| Tonio_ | both :) | 05:09 |
| aliasfred | ok :) | 05:09 |
| Tonio_ | the mass is stupid | 05:09 |
| Tonio_ | want an evidence of this ? | 05:09 |
| Tonio_ | look at ads on the tv | 05:09 |
| Tonio_ | can you imagin this works ??????? | 05:09 |
| aliasfred | hehe :) | 05:09 |
| aliasfred | ok then several stuff | 05:10 |
| aliasfred | "even master have master" | 05:10 |
| Tonio_ | doesn't that prove that 80% of the people are sheeps ? | 05:10 |
| aliasfred | this saying is interesting as you think you are smarter that the other guys, and you may be, the point is "dont forget that other are even smarter" :) | 05:10 |
| Tonio_ | no, I'm not smarter | 05:11 |
| aliasfred | so be nice with others :) | 05:11 |
| Tonio_ | but I try to protect my brain | 05:11 |
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| Tonio_ | most people simply leave with the mouth opened, ready to beleive anything | 05:11 |
| Tonio_ | don't mind, I am far from beeing an integrist | 05:12 |
| Tonio_ | do you know who is jacques brel ? | 05:12 |
| aliasfred | yep | 05:12 |
| aliasfred | im french too :) | 05:12 |
| Tonio_ | one day he said : | 05:12 |
| Tonio_ | "I don't like stupid people, because stupidness is laziness" | 05:13 |
| Tonio_ | I most of the time agree with this | 05:13 |
| bddebian | 80% of users ARE sheep :-) | 05:13 |
| Tonio_ | bddebian: THANK YOU !!!!!! | 05:13 |
| Tonio_ | I was feeling like an integrist alone ! | 05:13 |
| aliasfred | damn i though that people on the internet were all dogs | 05:13 |
| Tonio_ | aliasfred: this is the reason I never try to get someone involved to linux | 05:14 |
| Tonio_ | he can ask if he wants | 05:14 |
| Tonio_ | but I want HIM to decide to ask first | 05:14 |
| bddebian | Which is part of the reason GNU/Linux won't make it. Most developers seem to think that users have a brain, when over half of users can barely turn on their PCs much less configure CUPS | 05:14 |
| aliasfred | like i said when the web started "this web stuff is nice, who gonna play the spider ?" :) | 05:14 |
| aliasfred | g..gle hint :) | 05:14 |
| Tonio_ | when I'm trying to convince someone to use linux, I'm doing the same than l'oreal with those crappy stupid ads on the tv | 05:15 |
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| aliasfred | Tonio_: hehe i can imagine you trying to convince a user :) | 05:15 |
| Tonio_ | aliasfred: I've never done | 05:15 |
| aliasfred | Tonio_: talking about freedom, open standard etc :) | 05:15 |
| Tonio_ | even my girlfriend | 05:15 |
| Tonio_ | I've been waiting for her to ask me to give her a try | 05:16 |
| Tonio_ | but yes, I'm a heavy debater :) | 05:16 |
| aliasfred | me i said no window on my lan, matter of security | 05:16 |
| Tonio_ | hard to get the final word with me :) | 05:16 |
| Tonio_ | aliasfred: I would say that windows can be secured too... | 05:16 |
| Tonio_ | 500 000 000 computers with windows in lan companies | 05:17 |
| aliasfred | well i dont know how and i dont trust ms | 05:17 |
| Tonio_ | how much are crashing because of security issues ? :) | 05:17 |
| aliasfred | so no joke about security, my box contains data important to me | 05:17 |
| Tonio_ | yes I don't trust ms too, but windows isn't that security problematic | 05:17 |
| Tonio_ | aliasfred: so not any computer is able to help you | 05:18 |
| aliasfred | well they have a real bad trackable record on the matter | 05:18 |
| Tonio_ | because a computer IS unsecure | 05:18 |
| Tonio_ | why do companies print so much according to you ;) | 05:18 |
| aliasfred | because reading on screen is painfull for the eyes :) | 05:19 |
| Tonio_ | nope, because paper is the best way to prevent the datas | 05:19 |
| Tonio_ | not any computer is giving security | 05:19 |
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| Tonio_ | the problem is certainly not ms ir linux of unix or mac | 05:19 |
| Tonio_ | :) | 05:19 |
| Tonio_ | oups s/ir/or | 05:20 |
| aliasfred | hehe ok you win :) | 05:20 |
| aliasfred | i have to go back doing some work | 05:20 |
| Tonio_ | seya ;) | 05:20 |
| aliasfred | damn working is so hard :) | 05:20 |
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| danimo | hmm, which packages has the database-specific plugins for libqt4-sql ? | 05:53 |
| danimo | Riddell: do you know? | 05:55 |
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| allee | oh, oh. More and more KDE translator teams get pissed by rosetta :( | 09:47 |
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| crimsun | allee: what're the issues? | 10:21 |
| allee | crimsun: last one I saw was that new msgs translated in kdesvn did not override translations done in rosetta | 10:22 |
| allee | saw == in kde-i18n-doc ml | 10:22 |
| crimsun | ah | 10:22 |
| allee | crimsun: you're somehow involved in rosetta? | 10:24 |
| crimsun | allee: no, just curious what you were referring to | 10:24 |
| allee | :) | 10:25 |
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| toma | allee: i had discussions with riddell and tonio already. I really think we should work on a solution | 10:28 |
| toma | but it seems difficult to fthink of one acceptable by both | 10:28 |
| toma | i'll put it on the agenda | 10:29 |
| allee | toma: yes. The direction discussion on kde-i18n-doc take worries me | 10:41 |
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| birthdaylogger | guys, the amaork splash bug has been fixed http://websvn.kde.org/?rev=565597&view=rev ;-) | 10:47 |
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| kane__ | any of the kaffeine developers around ? | 11:08 |
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| goldenear | kane__: do you have a pb with kaffeine ? | 11:28 |
| kane__ | goldenear: yes | 11:33 |
| kane__ | goldenear: it sortof crashes when starting with - XMODIFIERS="@im=SCIM" kaffeine | 11:34 |
| goldenear | kane__: did you repport a bug on launchpad ? | 11:34 |
| kane__ | goldenear: umm no ... | 11:35 |
| kane__ | goldenear: sorry ... i thought this was #kde-devel :) LOL | 11:35 |
| goldenear | for a but it' s better to repport in on launchpad :) | 11:36 |
| goldenear | but/bug | 11:37 |
| kane__ | goldenear: yeah well ... its probably better to report it on bugs.kde.org | 11:37 |
| goldenear | depends if it's a ubuntu specific bug or not... | 11:38 |
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