=== DaSkreec1 [n=Me@208.138.25.53] has joined #kubuntu-devel === aliasfred [n=fred@73.43.102-84.rev.gaoland.net] has left #kubuntu-devel [] === neoncode [n=neoncode@unaffiliated/neoncode] has joined #kubuntu-devel === pygi [n=pygi@83-131-248-176.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #kubuntu-devel === ZuZuu [n=ZuZubunt@AVelizy-154-1-20-249.w82-124.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #kubuntu-devel === LeeJunFan_ [n=junfan@adsl-69-210-207-5.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === kwwii [n=kwwii@likes.smoking.more.than.watching.spacenight.dk] has left #kubuntu-devel [] === nixternal_ [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal] has joined #kubuntu-devel === DaSkreech [n=Me@208.138.25.189] has joined #kubuntu-devel === LeeJunFan__ [n=junfan@adsl-69-210-207-5.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === neoncode [n=neoncode@unaffiliated/neoncode] has joined #kubuntu-devel === rob [i=Robert@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.rob] has joined #kubuntu-devel === LeeJunFan [n=junfan@adsl-69-210-207-5.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #kubuntu-devel [03:49] Hobbsee: Hello === rob [i=Robert@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.rob] has left #kubuntu-devel ["bored"] [03:52] hi DaSkreech, everyone else :) === DaSkreech [n=Me@208.138.25.189] has joined #kubuntu-devel === freeflying|away [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #kubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #kubuntu-devel === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #kubuntu-devel === imbrandon_ [n=gentoo@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.imbrandon] has joined #kubuntu-devel [05:03] hi imbrandon_ [05:03] eek, now i think my wifi's really screwed. [05:03] heya Hobbsee ;) [05:06] root@sarah:~/Desktop# ndiswrapper -l [05:06] bash: ndiswrapper: command not found [05:06] sigh. [05:06] Hobbsee: Did a kernel upgrade? [05:06] sudo apt-get install ndiswrapper-utils ;) [05:06] DaSkreech: nope, but i went back to the old version of ndiswrapper, as the newer one wasnt workign with knm === imbrandon_ hates ndiswrapper [05:07] woot almost done portage syncing [05:08] root@sarah:~/Desktop# modprobe ndiswrapper [05:08] FATAL: Module ndiswrapper not found. [05:08] it's screwed. [05:08] ouch [05:08] which happened before [05:08] bye all === abattoir [n=abattoir@59.92.44.36] has joined #kubuntu-devel === abattoir [n=abattoir@59.92.44.36] has joined #kubuntu-devel === aliasfred [n=fred@73.43.102-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [08:54] just in case it is not already known, wiki.kubuntu.org seems down, replying 'connnection refused' === abattoir [n=abattoir@59.92.58.140] has joined #kubuntu-devel === aliasfred [n=fred@73.43.102-84.rev.gaoland.net] has left #kubuntu-devel [] [09:36] eh? Seems up to me. === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #kubuntu-devel === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #kubuntu-devel === abattoir [n=abattoir@59.92.94.23] has joined #kubuntu-devel === _Sime [n=konversa@ip54579d1b.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #kubuntu-devel === rraphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #kubuntu-devel === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #kubuntu-devel === hunger [n=tobias@p54A61219.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel === rraphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #kubuntu-devel === Tonio_ [n=tonio@tonio.planetemu.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel === hunger [n=tobias@p54A62402.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel [12:27] hey [12:28] is someone using edgy here ? [12:28] I'm trying to get katapult running without any success === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #kubuntu-devel [01:21] hi all [01:27] hi Hobbsee, you're up late [01:27] @time sydney [01:27] Current time in Australia/Sydney: July 23 2006, 21:27:49 [01:27] toma: i'm likely to be up for another 5 hours or so :P [01:29] hmm, i thought you just got up [01:29] nm, my head is elsewhere [01:29] :P [01:39] hey [01:39] hi Tonio_! [01:39] hi Hobbsee, toma [01:39] hey ! [01:39] I'm getting nuts in trying to understand why katapult fails on edgy [01:39] look like an xorg issue [01:39] Tonio_: it does? works here [01:40] Hobbsee: with edgy ? [01:40] Tonio_: yep [01:40] hum, local problem so.... [01:40] Sysinfo for 'sarah': Linux 2.6.17-5-686 running KDE 3.5.3, CPU: Mobile Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 2.40GHz at 2394 MHz (4793 bogomips), HD: 19/36GB, RAM: 567/995MB, 104 proc's, 21.38min up [01:40] definetly edgy. [01:40] Hobbsee: are you up to date ? how do you find the latest changes I've done to kopete and konqueror ? [01:40] Tonio_: wha'td you do to kopete? [01:40] i havent updated this afternoon, no [01:41] Hobbsee: open a discussion and put the cursor on the tab icon :) [01:41] Tonio_: a discussion? [01:41] it displays a close button [01:41] and same for konqueror [01:41] oh yeah, i got k-d-s this morning, that's right [01:41] Hobbsee: not only kds, I had to patch kopete sources to get that working [01:41] and kdelibs with the help of toma too [01:42] Tonio_: um, okay, which sources did you patch? did you patch mine on revu, the current edgy, or what? [01:42] I patched the current edgy [01:42] but the sources that are in universe, not kdenetwork [01:43] Accepted: [01:43] OK: kopete_3.5.3+kopete0.12.0-0ubuntu4.dsc [01:43] -> Component: universe Section: kde [01:44] okay, so i was told it was going into main. [01:44] Tonio_: there's a UVF exception in for 0.12.1 - but i dont think mdz has replied to it yet [01:45] Hobbsee: yes we need to wait at the moment === Hobbsee wonders why Tonio_ didnt patch against 0.12.1 [01:46] Hobbsee: how do you find the changes ? [01:46] Tonio_: well, i cant figure out hwo to open a discussion, so.... [01:46] Hobbsee: simply because I know your package is gonna replace it :) [01:46] oups okay [01:46] Tonio_: er, and you're not wanting your patch in my new package? [01:46] oh, and i'm using 0.12.1, too... [01:46] I didn't patch because I wanted it in edgy for people to test [01:47] then we'll port the patch if people like it [01:47] it is very easy to do [01:47] Tonio_: isnt that the idea of edgy? it's development, ie testing? [01:47] the patch is one line only [01:47] Hobbsee: yes, so what is the issue ? [01:47] is 0.12.1 in edgy already ? [01:47] Tonio_: no, it's not. [01:48] that's why I didn't do it :) [01:48] Hobbsee: you can port the patch if you want [01:48] pretty easy to do [01:48] Hobbsee: ho and talking about edgy, do you have issues with fonts too ? [01:48] my fonts are quite crappy [01:48] Tonio_: actually, what i'd like to do is to poke mdz to approve the UVF exception, so we dont have 3 branches of the same app. [01:49] Hobbsee: true [01:49] we'll add the patch after this [01:49] you're right on that point [01:49] fonts are different, but i've grown to like it [01:49] Hobbsee: to me that's not different, that dirty [01:49] they don't feet with the screen [01:49] also, that's supposed to be in main, i'm told. however, p.u.c says it's in uni, you say it's in uni, katie says it's in uni, so it really must be in universe. [01:50] i think it's katie - whatever generates the accepted/rejected mails [01:50] Tonio_: of course, there's an easy way to check - i try uploading it :P [01:50] Hobbsee: in fact we have 2 versions of kopete in edgy [01:50] the one provided by kdenetwork [01:50] and your package [01:51] if we want your in main, we should patch kdenetwork to remove the kopete package from it [01:51] Tonio_: yep, true [01:51] also there is an issue with your package.... === rraphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #kubuntu-devel [01:51] universe dep [01:51] Tonio_: yeah, Riddell was going to do that, but kde 3.5.4 will be out soon, so he was going to patch it there. [01:51] hi rraphink [01:51] Tonio_: ah, which dep was that? === Hobbsee has to do dishes - back in a sec [01:52] Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, libjasper-runtime [01:52] this one is universe [01:53] that will cause an issue for main inclusion [01:55] hi Hobbsee [01:57] hey... Tonio_....this thing's really in universe, right? [01:57] (so Riddell was wrong in saying it was in main, presumably) [01:57] Tonio_: tell me why we're waiting on a UVF? [01:57] Hobbsee: yes [01:57] exception? [01:57] Hobbsee: because of main inclusion report [01:57] :) [01:58] this thing's probably going to go to main later in the release? [01:58] but yes could make sense to upload latest to universe and main inclusio after this [01:58] Tonio_: it's not in main yet - presumably we can keep upgrading it while it's in universe/ [01:58] would make it easier [01:58] much easier. [01:58] I agree [01:58] okay, i'll try it ;0 [01:58] :) [01:59] make: *** /lib/modules/2.6.17-5-386/build: Aucun fichier ou rpertoire de ce type. Arrt. [01:59] why don't we have a build symlink ? [01:59] pf [02:01] my stupidity........ [02:03] Tonio_: why are you on -386 anyway? [02:03] Tonio_: ah yeah, guess we'd need to get that bumped to main too maybe, depending on it's deps. [02:06] Tonio_: where was your patch for kopete? [02:06] Tonio_: seems a bit silly to upload kopete twice [02:07] Hobbsee: want the patch via dcc ? [02:07] Tonio_: probably email. hobbsee@ubuntu.com [02:07] patch is good, yep :) [02:08] the email is gone [02:08] Hobbsee: you might need the changelog now no ? [02:09] Tonio_: i dont understand [02:09] what ? [02:09] i might need to change the changelog? yeah [02:09] well if you upload your new package, since my one is already in universe, you need to take the changelog informations [02:09] makes sense no ? [02:11] Hobbsee: i /msg the changelog entry to you [02:12] Tonio_: yeah, the idea does, i just didnt understand what you actually said :P === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #kubuntu-devel [02:25] Riddell: ping? === birthdaylogger [n=me@N923P003.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #kubuntu-devel [02:34] fabo: you around? [02:34] hi birthdaylogger! [02:34] ahoy Hobbsee === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #kubuntu-devel === hunger [n=tobias@p54A63064.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel === _Sime_ [n=konversa@ip54579d1b.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #kubuntu-devel [02:51] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tL6E7R4IbCM [02:52] LOL ;) === Ubugtu [n=bugbot@ubuntu/bot/ubugtu] has joined #kubuntu-devel === apokryphos [n=apokryph@host-84-9-33-42.bulldogdsl.com] has joined #kubuntu-devel [03:48] Tonio_: ping? [03:50] [23:47] KDE 3.5.4 is about to be tagged. Will kopete 0.12.1 be merged? This was discussed on kde-devel and approved, but I don't see a merge. [03:50] [23:47] no, it will not be merged [03:50] Hobbsee: okay kool [03:51] Tonio_: which is what i suspected. anyway, that'll help us in our discussions. [03:55] yes === bddebian [n=bdefrees@71.224.172.103] has joined #kubuntu-devel [04:06] Hello [04:07] Tonio_: you already talked to someone concering a google earth license? [04:10] birthdaylogger: nope [04:10] there is no change we get one ;) [04:10] no chance [04:10] Tonio_: oh, why so? [04:11] google is not interested in distributing their software? Oo [04:11] birthdaylogger: because google doesn't do anything to promote free software [04:11] and has the same licencing vision than apple or microsof [04:11] though they support FOSS don't they? [04:11] with a bit of hypocrite way to do that microsoft doesn't have [04:11] and they finance trolltech :D [04:12] birthdaylogger: in theory.... [04:12] well, most of their APIs are open [04:12] can you give me an good example of free code they have written ? [04:12] they are for standards yes [04:12] well [04:12] they like standards and open technology [04:12] do they have to open their code? [04:12] but certainly not free software [04:12] they featured wine [04:13] and they do code contributions to mozilla [04:13] birthdaylogger: because it was better than providing a real linux application probably [04:13] ? [04:13] wine is evil [04:13] well, it is FOSS [04:13] you can't say google doesn't support FOSS [04:13] as it is not true [04:13] yes, but it is the best reason for companies not to develop on linux [04:13] well that's a too big debate ;) [04:14] well, google is aiming to make money [04:14] the point is honnestly, I don't think, not even a second, that google will allow us to provide a package [04:14] we can ask [04:14] birthdaylogger: trolltech too, and intel too :) [04:14] and as google aims to make money it's not very unlikely [04:14] but intel favors foss more than google in my view [04:15] opera allowed to package as well?! [04:15] google is like apple [04:15] apple is support khtml [04:15] *ing [04:15] they talk about free software, they use it as much as they need it, and they provide proprietary stuff to make money [04:15] I can't accept that [04:15] microsoft way to do is better [04:16] they don't want to make free software, so they don't use free softtware, and don't talk about it [04:16] ;) [04:16] apple supports khtml because kde people asked for the code [04:16] at the very begening, they simply got a 20 mbits patch absolutly unreadable [04:17] what did apple do with osx ? [04:17] take the best of free software under lgpl or bsd licence [04:17] make proprietary os with their own proprietary stuff in their, [04:17] had a bunch of drm inside [04:17] and sold it...... [04:18] this company is honnestly 10 times worst than microsoft regarding to their hypocrits acts... === Hobbsee_ [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #kubuntu-devel [04:18] Tonio_: MS is using FOSS as well [04:19] anyway, you can't wait for such big comapnies to open their code [04:19] birthdaylogger: I've worked for MS [04:19] they generally favor unix to linux because it is not free software [04:20] and yes, MS is hypocrit too, but honnestly not as much as apple or google [04:20] because they never pretend to be "fan of FOSS" and friends of "the FOSS world" [04:20] birthdaylogger: HP opens its code, intel does so [04:20] aren't they big companies ? [04:21] sure they are [04:21] but they are 2 against 100 [04:21] seriously, is picasa port to linux acceptable ? [04:21] even googleearth [04:21] they didn't do any effort to respect linux HUIs [04:21] what's the problem with the google earth port? [04:22] they want it to be similar to the windows version [04:22] it doesn't respect the linux file system structure [04:22] so they can't break their own HUI used for their windows apps [04:22] ? [04:22] why not? [04:22] is requires to be launched as root [04:22] which makes it a problem for the security [04:22] it doesn't do [04:23] honnestly, the only reason they did a port and not a wine thing is because is was developed in QT on windows [04:23] it saves every config etc. to ~./googleearth [04:23] that's the only reason [04:23] birthdaylogger: hum, I'd like to see it, since I tested it a month ago and it couldn't be launched as simple user [04:23] of course this is the reason, but as I said ... they want to make money, so there needs to be a market for their software [04:24] birthdaylogger: I don't criticize the fact they don't do open source code [04:24] Tonio_: there was no new version since first beta release [04:24] I criticize the fact they are trying to play on both side in an hypocrit way [04:24] birthdaylogger: then I'd like to see it :) [04:24] did you install using their .bin file ? === neoncode [n=neoncode@unaffiliated/neoncode] has joined #kubuntu-devel [04:25] once that's installed, you cannot launched it as simple user without playing manually with chmod rights [04:25] yeah [04:25] Tonio_: you installed in system resource? [04:25] I installed in /opt [04:25] might be a bug in the loki installer [04:25] but actually nothing more than a bug [04:26] anyway, AFK [04:26] gotta visist some people ;-) [04:26] honnestly, couldn't they provide at least an rpm version ? or a debian one ? [04:26] do you know why they didn't ? [04:26] because the file would have been copied on repos [04:26] that's obvious [04:27] I just respect google for one thing : they respect standards [04:27] that the good point [04:30] Tonio_: no, loki installer is the most advanced version for supporting most distros [04:30] while if you package an RPM for redhat it might not work on suse or mandriva [04:31] birthdaylogger: other solution could have been to give a binary tarball and let the packagers to the job ;) === Hobbsee_ [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #kubuntu-devel [04:31] that's what we want to do - for our users, not for google [04:31] and it is much more work to ask every distro to package a binary thing [04:31] birthdaylogger: the point is it is illegal [04:32] or get packagers which can build one for msot [04:32] and that will probably not change since we ask for it === aliasfred [n=fred@73.43.102-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel [04:32] except on an illegal repo like the plf [04:32] we can put it there, but that's it [04:32] Tonio_: it doesn't change the possability they give us a license [04:32] or they open up an own repo [04:33] nope, but as plf exists and is plainly illegal, we can put the package their ;) [04:33] but we don't want to be illegal, do we? [04:33] about reporsitory, the 'new' repository for commercial software, anybody can enter ? or opera got a special deal with ubuntu ? [04:33] birthdaylogger: do you use w32codecs ? [04:33] perfect solution would be to get a deal with google so that the package ends up in the canonical repo or something [04:33] Tonio_: no [04:33] aliasfred: it is a deal with opera ues [04:34] birthdaylogger: good response :) [04:34] do we want to be illegal? sure no [04:34] do we have the choice ? no [04:34] we have the possability to get a choice [04:34] as marilliat's packages, they are not legal, but does he have another option ? no [04:34] birthdaylogger: try ! [04:34] yeah :P [04:35] no problem with it... [04:35] I can bet my salary they won't even take a second to answer [04:35] Tonio_: they even wanted to do some cooperation with amarok [04:35] concerning their music search thingy [04:36] though one of our members forgot to answer :S [04:36] birthdaylogger: google as 10000 project a day [04:36] it was a personalized answer [04:36] and most of the time internet invents projects for them :) [04:36] what I can see is google, 8 years claiming they LOOOOOOOOOOOOVE FOSS, not a fucking line of free code released.... [04:36] sure, but why shouldn't they be interessted when we support their stuff for free? [04:36] Tonio_: is there a way for a free of charge software to be included in the ubuntu repository ? a process to follow ? or "do your own repository and ask the user to point to it" is the only answer ? [04:37] Tonio_: again, they contributed code to at least wine and mozilla [04:37] I think they even done some work on vlc [04:37] alias, there is a way to make it that is legal [04:37] not sure about that though [04:37] make a debian package that doewnloads and installs the application [04:37] that's perfectly legal [04:38] birthdaylogger: no, vlc is developed by a french school, and a french isp [04:38] certainly not google :) [04:38] mozilla is developed by google? [04:38] they USE vlc yes, but they didn't do anything to promote it [04:38] why should they promote open source? [04:38] birthdaylogger: they shouldn't [04:38] what point does open source have if we need companies to promote it? [04:39] but they are TRYING to make people think they are [04:39] google even doesn't promote their own stuff [04:39] good example is you ;) [04:39] nah [04:39] Tonio_: maybe my question is not at the proper moment, but all in my stuff is legal :) nothing about illegal, just to know about the policy to be included in the repositories such as 'apt-get install apps' does install it. without the manually edit sources.list stage :) [04:39] they support FOSS [04:39] google helps vlc -> false, they just use it [04:39] they don't promote it [04:39] they promote mozilla, that's true [04:40] but to me google is just close to opensource to shit on microsoft [04:40] ah, they power it - as they think it's better for them [04:40] when you look at their licencing, there is no much difference [04:40] any EULA looks that way [04:41] that's the point of a default EULA, why should you allow stupid people to do crap with your software? [04:41] ok i will reask later for my pacakge stuff :) [04:41] but well, linux users hate microsoft and love google.... I don't understand why, but that's it, so let's stop there ;) [04:41] about google, they do give money for foss [04:41] why do we sign packages? [04:41] aliasfred: summer of code ? mouarf :) [04:41] google summer of code is like 500kus [04:41] birthdaylogger: so that the repositories know that hobbsee is actually hobbsee, not some imposter. [04:41] that's nothing !!!!!!! [04:41] 72millions to mozilla [04:41] Hobbsee: right [04:41] it is marketing genius, but that's all [04:41] so what should google do? [04:42] birthdaylogger: and it means that you can upload from multiple computers, if ~/.gnupg is on there, and you've got the passphrase [04:42] gnugpg their code? [04:42] well then it is about their motivation [04:42] can you imagin the ads done for google arround the world for only 500kus ? [04:42] every saw a gnugpg'ed code? [04:42] birthdaylogger: no, the folder in home [04:42] but they do give money, the point of why they do give is another [04:42] Tonio_: they aim to make money [04:42] aliasfred: yes, for mozilla I agree, they really help them [04:42] because mozilla is for them a weapon to shit on microsoft [04:43] birthdaylogger: what I see is that microsoft as code on sourceforge while google doesn't.... [04:43] microsoft is just doing what you say about google [04:43] would I say MS is promoting FOSS ? no [04:43] make people think they promote/support/distribute FOSS [04:43] but they have a partnership with xen, projects on sourceforge, they will support opendocument...... [04:43] they will just make money [04:44] yes MS and google are exactly the same [04:44] MONEY MONEY AND EVEN MORE MONEY [04:44] that's all [04:44] ms knows they are going down, so they try not to drawn too fast [04:44] they follow the market [04:44] which is moving to FOSS [04:44] so MS is moving FOSS [04:44] but in the foss world, MS is the ennemy, while google is "the good friend" [04:44] that's a non-sense [04:45] well google doesnt have the evil history of ms [04:45] why should google be an enemy? they don't even say 'we might sue a code because he's hurting our patents' [04:45] MS does [04:45] just as the point of mono [04:45] aliasfred: no, but what they prepare is even worse [04:45] MS doesn't say they will not sue them [04:45] they just say, not yet [04:45] Tonio_: what do they prepare ? [04:45] consider the database they have [04:46] I'm affraid by that [04:46] i know what you mean :) [04:46] google is in the O#F foundation === aliasfred was a research in anonymity over the internet in zeroknowledge [04:46] grm [04:46] ODF group thingy [04:46] MS isn't [04:46] all they do is oriented in "we want to know you, what you do, the websites you go, the girls you f*ck, etc..." [04:46] so i have good knowledge of the evil google may do :) [04:47] especially because it is under a single control :) [04:47] gimme your files, store them on my server, gimme your mails, sign that I can read them, install my toolbar so I know what websites you like........ [04:47] and that a single subponea can deliver all this info to some evil guys :) [04:47] excuse me, but that make me much more affraid than microsoft stupid war against standards [04:48] indead but how to fight it ? [04:48] all their apps are much better that any other alternatives [04:48] what missed ? wireless google condoms to guess who and when do I fuck, and that's it.... [04:48] honnestly, google apps are very little bits of code... === Hobbsee wonders when #kubuntu-devel changed into #kubuntu-letsbitchaboutMSandGoogle [04:49] heh [04:49] can we compare google desktop search or any of thei software to oracle, ms sql server, ms exchange, windows 2003 or anything ? [04:49] dunno what you mean, but google apps are all very nice and have no comparitor :) [04:49] honnestly, google makes a lot of money, but what they do doesn't impress me that much [04:50] well their search is the best [04:50] their mail system is the best too [04:50] their search ingine yes [04:50] google earth is the only one [04:50] their desktop search, no, for sure no [04:50] aliasfred: they didn't develop google earth, they just bought it [04:50] after this ? [04:50] when I see people comparing google to ms.... [04:50] that's ridiculous :) [04:51] ah google video [04:51] 3 desktop softwares cannot be compared to the 300 softwares microsoft is developing [04:51] well not that bad all that :) [04:51] aliasfred: the player is simply an hidden vlc, and yes, their web services are nice [04:52] i do agree about the danger of their database, but clearly they do much better product that competitors [04:52] so how to fight it ? [04:53] google desktop search is far from beeing the bests [04:53] google talk is very limited [04:53]