[12:05] <imbrandon> jmac you see you made sabdfl's blog ;)
[12:05] <kwwii> hehe
[12:06] <imbrandon> or better yet just give me damn svg support in PS CS8
[12:06] <imbrandon> hrm brb
[12:22] <troy_s> greetz
[12:24] <kwwii> hey man
[12:24] <mhb> good evening
[12:27] <Viper550> Hello
[12:53] <troy_s> imbrandon, where is the link for jmac?
[12:57] <kwwii> btw. everyone, I updated http://wiki.kubuntu.org/Artwork/Incoming/Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas including the svgs for the login manager ideas
[12:57] <imbrandon> troy_s: one sec
[12:58] <imbrandon> troy_s: top story on mark shuttleworth.com
[01:00] <troy_s> i think he means jmak
[01:00] <troy_s> not jmac
[01:00] <kwwii> hehe
[01:00] <troy_s> joz
[01:01] <kwwii> but troy will be the big boss soon
[01:01] <kwwii> :p
[01:01] <troy_s> eek...
[01:01] <troy_s> what the hell am i doing in there
[01:01] <imbrandon> heheh
[01:01] <troy_s> just spent 200 bucks on bloody reference books
[01:01] <mhb> kwwii: he's not already?
[01:01] <troy_s> this ubuntu is expensive
[01:01] <troy_s> not a chance
[01:02] <mhb> :o))
[01:02] <troy_s> if i had more time, i would like to contribute more
[01:02] <kwwii> honestly, he has done more work than anyone on controlling the mailing list and progression in general
[01:02] <troy_s> blah
[01:02] <mhb> kwwii: +1
[01:02] <kwwii> the kinda stuff an artist does not do so well
[01:02] <imbrandon> kwwii: yea i like that last screenshot ( now we just need purple konq nav icons and a purple K menu ;P ) lol j/k
[01:03] <kwwii> hehe, imbrandon: the point of that blue screen was to get everyone ready for the purple version :p
[01:03] <imbrandon> ;)
[01:03] <troy_s> kwwii:  its that fire breathing dragon of deadline work that rubbed off.
[01:03] <mhb> troy_s: I think you're doing more than a mortal can
[01:03] <kwwii> I promise you, living this close the dutch border...purple haze is in my brain
[01:03] <mhb> troy_s: work, that is
[01:03] <imbrandon> hahahahahahah kwwii
[01:04] <imbrandon> if i had a job offer in eu i would be gone in a half sec
[01:04] <imbrandon> lol
[01:04] <troy_s> mhb, blah.  ubuntu is far more important than most people are aware just yet.
[01:04] <kwwii> troy_s: honestly, everyting you do is at least, very public :-) and to be honest, I think that was the point
[01:05] <imbrandon> troy_s: did you get my msg about the staging site ?
[01:05] <troy_s> it is the first, and perhaps only, distribution that A) has actually hit critical mass and B) has virtually unlimited funds C) is going to actually put FOSS on the map.
[01:05] <troy_s> imbrandon, yes.  can't wait.
[01:05] <imbrandon> i got busy with some other stuff here at the house and it will be delayed about ~12 hours from whaty i told ya to begin with but still very much on track
[01:06] <troy_s> yep
[01:06] <imbrandon> kk
[01:06] <troy_s> once that is up, we can start looking at workflow
[01:06] <mhb> troy_s: unlimited funds?
[01:06] <imbrandon> yea
[01:06] <troy_s> i know that drupal has some keyword filters which permits things like "Propose" then sort from it.
[01:06] <troy_s> mhb, yes.
[01:06] <mhb> troy_s: why do you think so?
[01:07] <troy_s> mhb, well... the founding person is a bit of a philanthropist.
[01:07] <imbrandon> troy_s: yea plus i pride myself as a php hacker ( its how i feed my family ) so anything we need customized i can probably do, if not i can find out how ;P
[01:07] <troy_s> mhb, and his business model has already generated more momentum than any open source project that i can think of to date.
[01:07] <troy_s> imbrandon, you absolutely rock.
[01:08] <troy_s> imbrandon, hopefully it will lighten the load on me with manual imagemagick commands.
[01:08] <imbrandon> kwwii: wanna do something for me personaly as a favor ? no time limmits or anything
[01:08] <troy_s> it is hard enough pouring over all the stuff and gathering it up.
[01:08] <imbrandon> troy_s: yea thats the idea;)
[01:08] <mhb> troy_s: sure, but I don't think he (or Canonical) has unlimited funds
[01:08] <troy_s> mhb, well... 560million alone in the bank is a ridiculous amount of money coming in per day on interest alone.
[01:08] <troy_s> of course, you figure he donated a good 100 million of that.
[01:09] <mhb> troy_s: I just hope Ubuntu is generating enough money for Canonical
[01:09] <troy_s> mhb, i believe mark has publically said that he only cares if ubuntu breaks even.
[01:09] <imbrandon> troy_s: yea but 10mill a day going out in shipit is expensive too ;)
[01:09] <troy_s> or rather, is happy if it does.
[01:09] <troy_s> imbrandon, i think shipit was covered by the initial 10million investment.
[01:10] <imbrandon> troy_s: no shipit is in the hole
[01:10] <troy_s> imbrandon, and pretty sure it is relatively inexpensive in terms of yield.
[01:10] <imbrandon> true
[01:10] <troy_s> imbrandon, you have a link?
[01:10] <imbrandon> troy_s: somewhere i would have to dig it up
[01:10] <imbrandon> but yea
[01:10] <troy_s> i would be interested in it.
[01:10] <imbrandon> its something like 10 mil for breezy and 50 mil for dapper
[01:11] <troy_s> i think the bottom line is that the way mr. shuttleworth is spending his money has started to result in some yields.
[01:11] <imbrandon> thus far
[01:11] <troy_s> i mean, sun getting into bed with ubuntu is a pretty impressive feat.
[01:11] <imbrandon> right
[01:11] <troy_s> interesting.  i would like to see the link.
[01:11] <imbrandon> yea lemme dig it up , when i do i'll email it to ya
[01:11] <mhb> troy_s: but - somehow the coupling with closed-source companies troubles me
[01:11] <kwwii> imbrandon: it depends on what it is :p
[01:12] <troy_s> mhb, in case you didn't know, i believe that the whole java open source thing was really set afire thanks to that involvement.
[01:12] <troy_s> etc.
[01:12] <imbrandon> mhb sun is very open about alot of things infact the niagra t1 proc" they got into bed with" is becosue its "opensource" hardware ;)
[01:12] <troy_s> and sun has their new head cheese which is probably another reason.
[01:12] <mhb> don't believe in sun that much
[01:13] <mhb> last time I was on a sun conference
[01:13] <imbrandon> mhb: they are the only company that 100% releases the specs on their processors ;)
[01:13] <imbrandon> "opensource" hardware if you will
[01:14] <imbrandon> thats what made it possible for ubuntu to come to the T1's before anyone else
[01:14] <mhb> (opensolaris, to be exact) - the presentation of the Sun's delegates looked like: This, this and this can not be translated by the community, because it's closed
[01:14] <mhb> and there was a whole lot of things that was like this
[01:14] <kwwii> openfirmware
[01:14] <kwwii> hehe
[01:15] <imbrandon> but as a whole they are tons better than most companies even the likes of nvidia and such
[01:15] <kwwii> "open"firmware
[01:15] <imbrandon> heheh yea on apples kwwii  ;)
[01:15] <kwwii> they did do a good job in the end
[01:15] <mhb> imbrandon: no doubt about it
[01:16] <kwwii> but sun is messed up
[01:16] <kwwii> I worked with a team of their developers to make their linux themeing
[01:16] <imbrandon> lol
[01:16] <mhb> imbrandon: I look on things in a different way - it`s not enough for me that the company is "more open" than another
[01:16] <imbrandon> mhb: maybe not but i take what i can get , i'm not a gnu pureist
[01:17] <kwwii> anyway, about time for bed
[01:17] <mhb> kwwii: goodnight
[01:17] <kwwii> imbrandon: you wanted something from me?
[01:17] <imbrandon> gnight kwwii sleep well
[01:17] <mhb> imbrandon: me neither
[01:17] <mhb> imbrandon: but I think the Ubuntu approach is clear
[01:17] <imbrandon> kwwii: i can ask you tomarrow if i dont get it done myself ;P
[01:17] <troy_s> Ubuntu founder Mark Shuttleworth has admitted that he spends a significant sum of his own money developing the Linux distribution.
[01:17] <troy_s> "Ubuntu is expensive," he said, in an interview with German news site Heise, published on Monday. "The distribution costs me a few million dollars a year."
[01:17] <kwwii> about 10 until now, from what I understand
[01:17] <troy_s> openfirmware is bloody dumbass.
[01:18] <kwwii> hehehehehe
[01:18] <troy_s> i like the idea of linux bios though... very powerful.
[01:18] <troy_s> might have to buy me a tyan mobo
[01:18] <kwwii> a friend of mine, who is making a lot of money on openbios (based on the same specs) is doing that working for nasa, google, and others
[01:18] <imbrandon> troy_s: yea i was thinking the same thing , i like efi too though
[01:18] <imbrandon> kwwii: nice
[01:21] <kwwii> efi is evil
[01:21] <kwwii> but anywasy
[01:21] <kwwii> anyway
[01:21] <kwwii> I am going to bed now
[01:21] <imbrandon> lol ;)
[01:22] <imbrandon> gnight man sleep well
[01:22] <kwwii> whether I like it or not
[01:22] <kwwii> thanks, see you tomorrow
[01:25] <imbrandon> ok whos the inkscape expert ( /me is tooo used to PS )
[01:31] <mhb> hehe :o)
[01:31] <mhb> Ken is
[01:32] <imbrandon> heh figures ;)
[01:34] <mhb> imbrandon: I wish I could help you, but I'm the non-artist around here :o)
[01:35] <mhb> imbrandon: I do stuff like you - php pays my small student bills
[01:35] <imbrandon> mhb: me also ( i can do graphics when needed ) but i'm the codemonkey ;P
[01:36] <imbrandon> hehe np, i was just working on some new headers for buntudot.org and was trying to "color shift" them in inkscape like i do in PS but i just said screw it and exported it to my PS
[01:36] <imbrandon> and did it there ;P
[01:37] <mhb> imbrandon: heh
[01:37] <mhb> imbrandon: I wish Adobe was more "open"
[01:38] <mhb> imbrandon: at least the stuff could work on Ubuntu
[01:38] <imbrandon> heh i have used OSX for years and payed a pretty penny for my PS programs ;P
[01:38] <mhb> imbrandon: It's damn way too expensive
[01:38] <mhb> imbrandon: at least for us here in the Czech Rep.
[01:39] <imbrandon> i just wish the gimp guys would get the act togather i would love to use it but they say they are as good as ps but its not and you cant convince them of it
[01:39] <imbrandon> mhb: i pay $700 USD for my copies
[01:41] <mhb> imbrandon: that's a whole lot of money here
[01:41] <mhb> :o)
[01:42] <imbrandon> ;) here too but i find it worth it for myself
[01:42] <mhb> imbrandon: two desktop computers or a really old car :o)
[01:42] <imbrandon> mhb: bout the same here
[01:42] <mhb> imbrandon: many students just steal it and pay for it only when they get paid for their work
[01:42] <imbrandon> heh
[01:49] <mhb> imbrandon: it's sad that there are so many software pirates
[01:49] <mhb> imbrandon: at least here
[01:49] <imbrandon> yea
[01:50] <mhb> imbrandon: the mentality here is like: operating system for free? No thanks - I already have my Windows for free.
[01:51] <mhb> imbrandon: most of my friends are this way
[01:51] <imbrandon> heh
[01:51] <imbrandon> but buggy and insecure
[01:54] <mhb> imbrandon: but it plays all EXE files and games ... the arguments are always the same
[01:55] <mhb> imbrandon: my schoolmates laughed once that they tried a Linux distribution, they downloaded a simple EXE file and the system asked them what should it do with it?! :o)
[01:55] <mhb> imbrandon: sad experiences ...
[01:56] <imbrandon> heh
[02:00] <mhb> imbrandon: the Photoshop CS2 for Windows costs more than $1000 here
[02:54] <Viper550> Don't worry, I'm on the quest to make sure Green is not used in Edubuntu Edgy in any way!
[02:54] <klepas> someone pinged me?
[02:55] <Viper550> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/EdgyProposals/Edubuntu
[02:55] <mhb> Viper550: what?
[02:55] <Viper550> Working on a new theme for Edubuntu
[02:55] <mhb> Viper550: guess what's my favourite wallpaper ...
[02:56] <Viper550> The Green Chalkboard of Doom?
[02:56] <mhb> Viper550: exactly - but here it is called edubuntu-chalkboard.png
[02:56] <Viper550> I know, that's my nickname for it, don't worry, Edgy won't include it in that form
[02:57] <mhb> Viper550: I like it because it reflects Ubuntu philosophy and it actually means something
[02:57] <Viper550> I did make a blackboard version today as a possible predecessor...
[02:57] <mhb> Viper550: black is not my favourite colour for background, though
[02:58] <Viper550> Don't worry, I hope on taking it on a similar are direction to Ubuntu Edgy...
[02:58] <Viper550> Wondering why I hate that green chalkboard?
[02:58] <mhb> I guess you don't like the colour
[02:58] <Viper550> It's because the GTK theme and the wallpapers colors clash
[02:59] <mhb> but it's really soft on the eyes, that's an extra point for me
[02:59] <Viper550> The only time Green and Red look good together are during Christmas, and on Roses
[02:59] <Viper550> Make sure you back it up when you go up to Edgy, Edgy won't have it, I know this for a fact
[03:00] <mhb> Viper550: well, I think I have some dapper cd's handy .o)
[03:00] <mhb> Viper550: I hope you are cooperating with the Edubuntu artwork team
[03:00] <Viper550> Umm, packages.ubuntu.com, edubuntu-artwork on Dapper
[03:00] <Viper550> Yes I am, I did port EdubuntuColors to use Candido (a new GTK engine we might be using for Edgy)
[03:01] <mhb> that's good to hear :o)
[03:01] <Viper550> http://candido.berlios.de/pages/engine.php (For the engine)
[03:01] <Viper550> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/EdgyProposals/Edubuntu (for the theme)
[03:02] <imbrandon> Viper550: you are too high strung, and you cannot know it for a fact as 1) its not totaly decidecd by you and 2) the finaly edgy artwork is not out, now you can work twords it not being included but choose your words carefully
[03:02] <Viper550> I say might as we've recently begun discussing it on the list
[03:03] <Viper550> It's a PROPOSITION, I know how those work!
[03:03] <imbrandon> Viper550: yes i follow the list and your proposals closely but "i know for a fact it wont be included" is just dead wrong and i emplore you to choose your words closely and tone it down a bit
[03:05] <imbrandon> he has a good spirtit but gos about things all wrong
[03:05] <mhb> imbrandon: he seems to decide things on his own
[03:06] <imbrandon> mhb: exaactly
[03:06] <mhb> imbrandon: I guess he needs to join (and follow) the community more
[03:06] <imbrandon> ;)
[03:06] <mhb> but I'm not the guy who should tell him
[03:06] <imbrandon> sure , why not, its everyones job to ;)
[03:07] <imbrandon> anyhow i'm afk for a while , gonna finish up some of this stuff
[03:07] <mhb> imbrandon: sure, see you later
[03:11] <imbrandon> sad thing is he dont even use ubuntu
[03:42] <Who_> troy_s: you still wanting that summary email?
[03:44] <Who_> Has anyone here got any idea how to render some spilled water (I.E a small puddle on a flat surface) in SVG!?
[03:44] <Who_> beacuse your help would make me a happy man :)
[03:46] <Who_> for example some mercury droplets
[03:51] <mhb> Who_: sorry, no idea :o)
[04:02] <troy_s> who
[04:02] <troy_s> check that older textures page
[04:02] <troy_s> you will see a couple of water ripples
[04:03] <troy_s> Who_, copy?
[04:05] <mhb> does anyone know if Ubuntu/Kubuntu has an official artwork for slideshows, presentations and the like?
[04:05] <troy_s> ???
[04:06] <troy_s> slideshows?
[04:06] <troy_s> imbrandon inkscape is very good... i would encourage you learn it.
[04:08] <mhb> troy_s: what's that weird?
[04:08] <troy_s> i don't know what you mean mhb
[04:09] <mhb> troy_s: well, presentations
[04:09] <Who_> mhb: you mean a presentation template?
[04:09] <mhb> Who_: yeah
[04:09] <troy_s> oh yes
[04:09] <troy_s> of course
[04:09] <troy_s> openoffice's presentation
[04:09] <troy_s> loads powerpoint too etc.
[04:10] <mhb> troy_s: I wanted to know if there'an official template or something like that
[04:10] <troy_s> i believe so...
[04:10] <mhb> troy_s: because I'm not skilled with oo.org at all :o)
[04:10] <troy_s> did you check the templates?
[04:10] <troy_s> its pretty simple.
[04:10] <troy_s> just a tool.
[04:10] <troy_s> back in  afew.
[04:11] <mhb> troy_s: what templates?
[04:11] <mhb> troy_s: there's too many templates in Ubuntu ... wiki templates etc.
[04:11] <troy_s> have you started presenter?
[04:11] <troy_s> when you start, it gives you the option of loading a 'template'
[04:12] <mhb> troy_s: yeah, there's something
[04:12] <mhb> troy_s: thanks
[04:13] <mhb> troy_s: I tried to create one by hand, but the program is definitely not "me-friendly" :o)
[04:14] <mhb> well, that's it for tonight
[04:14] <mhb> :o)
[04:14] <mhb> good night to you all
[04:16] <mhb> :o)
[04:16] <mhb> like talking to myself ...
[04:29] <Who_> troy_s: I'm taking photos for Blubuntu (just for fun, really :P)
[04:30] <Who_> Honey is good, but the wrong colour, shower gel is the right colour and a bit too runny - ketchup is too think (AND the wrong colour). There may be a future in glucose syrup with colouring :P
[04:31] <Who_> but it doesn't givce any kind of 'wrapping' "now guys, the central idea for the theme is 'glucose syrup with colouring'" just doesn't seem to work :P
[04:48] <troy_s> lol Who_
[04:53] <Who_> troy_s: I miss being a kid when you didn't have to justify this kind of stuff :P
[04:54] <troy_s> laf
[04:54] <troy_s> hilarious
[05:25] <troy_s> whostein
[05:25] <troy_s> Who_,
[05:25] <troy_s> the links you had for blubuntu were changed by someone, just to let you know.
[05:26] <troy_s> i think someone slushed the old incoming into /evaluation
[05:27] <Who_> :S ouch!
[05:28] <Who_> troy_s: can I put it back!?
[05:28] <troy_s> well incoming is purposefully unstable...
[05:29] <troy_s> perhaps we need a /ThemeTeam dir
[05:29] <troy_s> i would put it somewhere stable.
[05:29] <Who_> it seems to still be at Incoming
[05:29] <Who_> jees, just noticed it is 4:30!
[05:30] <troy_s> hrm... link?
[05:30] <Who_> ...? I was talking about the time!
[05:31] <Who_> (AM)
[05:40] <troy_s> i know
[05:40] <troy_s> or do you mean can you put the time back?
[05:40] <troy_s> lol
[05:49] <Who_> troy_s: do you need this list tonight?
[05:50] <troy_s> Who_, no when you get around to it.
[05:50] <Who_> cool, it's bedtime!
[05:50] <troy_s> Though I might ask that you take the lead and establish the "ThemeTeams" dir
[05:50] <troy_s> and stick all three theme team related things into it.
[05:50] <Who_> and I've got to go and clean up a bunch of trays with radox, honey and other crap on them before I sleep
[05:50] <Who_> yea, will do :)
[05:53] <troy_s> lol
[05:53] <troy_s> lol
[05:55] <troy_s> Incoming is being purged.
[05:55] <troy_s> Fixing like 100000000 links
[05:55] <troy_s> etc.
[05:59] <Who_> Good work!
[06:00] <Who_> I read that you got some design books for Ubuntu...what are they?
[02:39] <mhb> hey everyone
[05:51] <Viper550> I noticed that the new Murrine engine got released today
[05:58] <troy_s> so?
[05:59] <troy_s> Viper550,  you really need to watch the way you phrase things friend.
[05:59] <Viper550> oh, okay
[05:59] <troy_s> Some of your posts and wiki entries come off as being derogatory towards the participants, and I am fielding complaints.  Ok?
[05:59] <troy_s> Sound fair?
[06:00] <troy_s> Think of it as a learning exercize -- it will force you to figure out exactly what it is you are criticizing.  For example, there are a selection of very good artworks out there that are green, so it isn't simply the fact that someone uses green that makes it seem off.
[06:00] <troy_s> It is more complicated.
[06:00] <troy_s> Anyways, now you know.
[06:00] <troy_s> Thanks for listening.
[06:01] <Viper550> You know, my comments about the wallpaper actually date back to when Dapper RC1 came out? I didn't know the whole story until today
[06:01] <troy_s> That's fine.
[06:01] <troy_s> Comments are fine.
[06:01] <troy_s> The problem with _your_ comments is that they are A) ill informed (green isn't a good enough reason -- ask Picasso)
[06:01] <troy_s> B) They are rather adversarial and derogatory at times.
[06:02] <troy_s> C) They don't offer any constructive additional criticism that lends towards the future.
[06:02] <troy_s> Okie?
[06:02] <Viper550> Okay, so the theme looked a bit weird because the wallpaper used clashed with the theme colors, would that be a better statement?
[06:02] <troy_s> The mailing list isn't a forum to flog your own personal work.
[06:02] <troy_s> Yes, but I would think it through even more than that.
[06:03] <troy_s> Find samples of successful works that use the same colour scheme, etc.
[06:03] <troy_s> There are MANY aspects to art that result in something being positive or negative.
[06:03] <troy_s> A short list might be: Colour application, Composition, Societal Trends, etc.
[06:03] <troy_s> Colour composition changes as society adjusts its trends.
[06:03] <troy_s> As does compositional trends.
[06:03] <troy_s> etc.
[06:04] <troy_s> Understand?
[06:04] <Viper550> http://www.linuxshots.com/main.php?g2_itemId=552 (this is my example, Silver and Blue look very nice together)
[06:04] <troy_s> Yes, but all you offer are colour changes.
[06:04] <troy_s> You really need to spend more time
[06:04] <troy_s> developing
[06:04] <troy_s> Don't just pinch off some simple colour tweaks and a window border.
[06:04] <troy_s> Look at the whole package.
[06:04] <troy_s> Have you seen the work that Who_ has done for his ThemeTeam?
[06:04] <troy_s> It's massive
[06:05] <troy_s> It has research.
[06:05] <troy_s> Etc.
[06:05] <Viper550> Erm, I would look...if the wiki wern't down!
[06:05] <troy_s> You post countless colour combinations that aren't difficult to do at home.  You need to really spend more time developing, otherwise people will just tune you out as 'noise'.
[06:06] <troy_s> And that will effect you because you won't get comments, you will irritate people, and no one will take your work seriously.
[06:06] <troy_s> And I want people to take your work seriously.  But you need to get a more objective stance.
[06:06] <troy_s> And learn your craft if you are going to call yourself an artist.
[06:06] <troy_s> Perhaps learn an art term and build a theme around its motivations.  It would be a good learning exercise.
[06:07] <troy_s> Remember this:  The mailing list is for the DEFAULT installation of Ubuntu primarily.  ThemeTeams are still allowed to post, but if the clutter gets to be too much, they will get assigned their own lists -- and this means less exposure.
[06:07] <troy_s> MANY important folks are on that mailing list, so know that when you post.
[06:07] <troy_s> Ok?
[06:08] <Viper550> I know all this
[06:08] <troy_s> Then why would you post off-the-cuff comments that offend folks?
[06:10] <troy_s> Viper550, ?
[06:10] <Viper550> About the usplash, I actually liked that new design! It was pretty neat
[06:10] <troy_s> That's fine.
[06:11] <Viper550> And on Edubuntu (which sparked this whole thing)
[06:11] <troy_s> Well, no
[06:11] <troy_s> I had a bunch of complaints from prior to your last Edubuntu outburst.
[06:12] <Viper550> From what?
[06:12] <troy_s> I mean you wanted to be artist in chief for Xubuntu and you didn't even know the primary developer NOR do you even run *buntu.
[06:12] <troy_s> etc.
[06:12] <troy_s> Not from that instance in particular, but from people who believe you post too much and you simply post colour schemes.
[06:12] <troy_s> I admire your energy, but you need to focus and work your craft if you want to be taken seriously.
[06:13] <Viper550> Back in the earlier Dapper cycle, I had so many Splash Screen propositions
[06:13] <troy_s> Post fewer posts that are A) more well thought out (not offensive), B) More strategically planned, etc.
[06:13] <troy_s> That's fine.
[06:13] <troy_s> Working for a company in creative graphic design is the same thing.
[06:13] <troy_s> Don't get so personally attached to your work.
[06:13] <Viper550> And, we were all mad about what happened with the ugly Usplash artwork
[06:13] <troy_s> Not exactly, that was a lack of organization.
[06:13] <troy_s> We have good organization now, so we need you to help reduce the clutter.
[06:14] <Viper550> Yeah, but it at least led to some great propositions
[06:14] <troy_s> No amount of complaining will yield good propositions.
[06:14] <troy_s> Organization and development will.
[06:15] <troy_s> And remember, 'ugly' is a purely relative term.
[06:15] <troy_s> One person's meat is another person's poison.
[06:15] <troy_s> Temper your posts.
[06:16] <troy_s> Read sabdfl's last post at his blog about the 'clutter' on the mailing list.
[06:16] <troy_s> Take it to heart.
[06:16] <Viper550> where is his blog?
[06:16] <troy_s> If you don't, there will be moderated mailing lists implemented with stricter guidelines.
[06:16] <troy_s> www.markshuttleworth.com
[06:17] <troy_s> So don't break the system by flogging it with rubbish, OK?  Respect it.  Be a constructive part of it.  Learn from it.
[06:17] <Viper550> Umm, his site is down too
[06:17] <troy_s> Yes, his is hosted by all of the ubuntu server end I believe.
[06:17] <Viper550> Yes, all of the Ubuntu related sites are down, this might be a problem...
[06:18] <troy_s> It will be resolved soon I believe.
[06:18] <troy_s> Anyways, I have said my piece directly to you, and I hope you will respect where it is coming from.
[06:18] <Viper550> Okay...
[06:18] <troy_s> Sound fair?
[06:19] <Viper550> Okay, when it's all back up, it's going to be a little different out of me!
[06:19] <troy_s> Because I don't intend this to be a personal attack.
[06:19] <troy_s> I want you to channel your energy into more constructive work.
[06:20] <troy_s> And perhaps limit yourself to one post per week initially -- so that you are forced to focus on your work.  Try something new.  Then offer a weekly summary or something?
[06:20] <troy_s> Examine the work that Who_ has laid out for the ThemeTeams... maybe try learning from his structure.  Learn from the existing structure that the ubuntu-art team is trying to establish.
[06:20] <troy_s> Etc.
[06:20] <troy_s> Sound like a good plan?
[06:21] <Viper550> Unless it's a good comment towards something posted, of course!
[06:21] <troy_s> Even then, perhaps show restraint.
[06:21] <troy_s> Think about it for a day before you reply.
[06:21] <troy_s> Write up something in a text editor and EDIT it to make sure you don't make your previous mistakes.
[06:22] <troy_s> Something to fix that nasty trend that makes people mad and unhappy with the list.
[06:22] <Viper550> okay
[06:22] <troy_s> Great.
[06:22] <troy_s> Thanks for listening Viper.
[06:22] <troy_s> It's appreciated.
[06:22] <Viper550> Now, to contribute more to my real distro...
[06:22] <troy_s> phew
[06:22] <Viper550> Just kidding, I don't even have mailing lists subscribed to for Fedora!
[06:23] <troy_s> Perhaps if you are a strong supporter of Fedora, you should dedicate yourself to that.
[06:23] <troy_s> Grr.
[06:24] <mhb> what can I say ...
[06:25] <mhb> I guess: "Let's hope he understood what you were telling him."
[06:34] <troy_s> mhb, I think I was pretty clear
[06:34] <troy_s> mhb, and I haven't spoken directly to him before about it.
[06:51] <troy_s> greetings Who_
[06:51] <Who_> hiya
[06:52] <Who_> troy_s: know what is wrong with ubuntu.com?
[06:54] <troy_s> Word has it that you broke it all.
[06:54] <troy_s> Everyone has been looking for you Who_
[06:54] <Who_> why?, who?
[06:54] <troy_s> Everyone...
[06:54] <troy_s> from all over the globe
[06:54] <troy_s> They think you broke the wiki, the broke ubuntu.com
[06:54] <troy_s> then
[06:55] <troy_s> It's all over bbc.com
[06:55] <Who_> I dis ...muhahahah
[06:55] <troy_s> ;)
[06:56] <Who_> though I do have 44 lsplash variations that could well break the wiki when I upload the contact sheet :P
[06:56] <troy_s> Lol.
[06:56] <Who_> if it ever comes back to life
[06:56] <troy_s> Frank wants good and loose right now for proposals, so we should try and keep to his lead.
[06:56] <troy_s> Ship them to me.
[06:57] <troy_s> You got a jabber account with gaim or something?
[06:57] <Who_> oh, no, I forgot about that
[06:57] <troy_s> launchpad is down too... i suspect all of canonical is down.
[06:57] <Who_> does my gmail account work as a gchat accoun or do I need to register separately
[06:57] <troy_s> of course
[06:57] <Who_> all of canonical is down
[06:57] <troy_s> just plug in this info:
[06:58] <troy_s> http://www.google.com/support/talk/bin/answer.py?answer=24073
[06:58] <troy_s> You are running gaim correct?
[06:58] <Who_> indeed :)
[06:59] <Who_> that I zip these up and email them though
[07:00] <troy_s> you could do that too.
[07:01] <troy_s> hit gaim up and you can ship me a contact sheet that way
[07:03] <Who_> at 44 it might be time to start applying KISS to this :P
[07:05] <troy_s> LAF>
[07:05] <troy_s> I would suggest the following:
[07:05] <troy_s> Break the work down into compositional elements.
[07:06] <troy_s> Meaning only do a single variant (the best one you can find) for a single composition.
[07:06] <troy_s> For example, if you are playing with two variables -- say the Ubuntu text logo and the Ubuntu circle of friends
[07:06] <troy_s> Do ONE up with Both elements.
[07:06] <troy_s> ONE with just the logo
[07:06] <troy_s> ONE with just the test
[07:06] <troy_s> text even
[07:07] <troy_s> And perhaps repeat the cycle with a different stylistic shape for whatever you are doing (for example, different pill size /location for the lsplash)
[07:07] <troy_s> That way you have distinct directions to follow along.
[07:07] <troy_s> There isn't much sense in trying the same ideas with different backgrounds, just assume someone can visualize from your textural references.
[07:07] <troy_s> Treat it like a mix and match creation station sort of thing :)
[07:07] <troy_s> with me?
[07:12] <troy_s> Who_, you emailing me that contact sheet?
[07:12] <Who_> I just can't stop making them... cos I keep getting new ideas
[07:12] <Who_> I'll make an interim one now
[07:13] <Who_> hmm...I keep getting authentication failures with gtalk
[07:15] <troy_s> did you fix the extra bits at the bottom?
[07:15] <troy_s> its that second set of items that permits it to work... namly that TLS and talk.google.com stuffs.
[07:15] <troy_s> that's usually where folks go wrong.
[07:17] <troy_s> Who_, any luck?
[07:17] <Who_> troy_s: I'll check again, but i though I'd done it
[07:17] <troy_s> check that lower stuff.  :)(
[07:18] <troy_s> and make sure it is set to jabber etc... :)
[07:18] <Who_> troy_s: yea, it's all there. I wonder whether the googlemail vs gmail thing has an effect
[07:18] <troy_s> what is googlemail?
[07:18] <troy_s> i thought googlemail was gmail.
[07:19] <troy_s> Who_, give me an email.;
[07:20] <Who_> troy_s: indeed it is, the addresses are interchangeable at the moment (googlemail emerged because of trademark issues in the UK - us UK people who got accounts after a certain date must have googlemail accounts)
[07:20] <Who_> gaim works now, had to change server to googlemail.com
[07:20] <troy_s> how strange.
[07:20] <troy_s> didn' tknow there was a difference
[09:00] <Viper550> Still down...when will this end?
[09:01] <mhb> Viper550: don't think this is the correct channel where you should ask
[09:01] <mhb> Viper550: I don't think
[09:02] <Viper550> I know, but still, even worse the Wiki is down, so I can't post the new beta of Tropic I just finished
[09:04] <Viper550> At least I found somewhere to upload it... http://rapidshare.de/files/26757073/Tropic_Beta_3.tar.gz.html
[09:04] <mhb> Viper550: AFAIK beta version of a program/theme is a state where it is feature complete, ready to get tested by the community
[09:06] <Viper550> The first 2 were "internal" betas, now I'm going to let the public (the #ubuntu irc channel) try it out!
[09:06] <mhb> Viper550: hm, don't think this is how it works
[09:06] <Viper550> how does it work? It didn't say on the down wiki that we couldn't do public betas
[09:06] <mhb> Viper550: but every so-called "beta version" was almost a brand new version
[09:07] <Viper550> Because there were so many changes, I keep on satisfying all the complaints, like moving to lower saturation, changing the wallpaper, and now I've changed it to use a brand new GTK engine!
[09:09] <Viper550> Okay, even though the file name says "beta3", I'm calling this 1.0, and will probably reupload it with that name
[09:10] <mhb> so you think you have it finished?
[09:10] <Viper550> Yes, for the GTK theme and Metacity at least
[09:11] <Viper550> and the Wallpaper too....
[09:11] <Viper550> http://rapidshare.de/files/26757828/Tropic_Version1.tar.gz.html
[09:11] <mhb> Viper550: I think you should do more "internal testing" before you try to present a new version to the people
[09:12] <mhb> Viper550: just internally, in the theme team
[09:13] <Viper550> Then, we hit a time-based flaw
[09:13] <Viper550> The whole "The System is Down" problem we've got here
[09:14] <mhb> Viper550: maybe it's a hint you shouldn't post a new version right away
[09:15] <Viper550> At least it's been a good little bit since the last one
[09:15] <mhb> Viper550: instead of posting so many new versions on the ML and wiki, maybe what you need to do is organization
[09:16] <Viper550> Hmm, Organization...
[09:16] <mhb> Viper550: how many people are members of the Tropic Theme-Team?
[09:16] <Viper550> 1
[09:17] <mhb> Viper550: if you get more people there, you can criticise the work you do without informing the core Ubuntu artists
[09:17] <mhb> Viper550: a good piece of art is not finished after a few minutes ... it's hard work, too.
[09:18] <Viper550> Are any of the other people in here active?
[09:19] <mhb> Viper550: I think the people here already know about your Tropic effort ... maybe you should search for volunteers elsewhere on the Internet
[09:20] <mhb> Viper550: there are many young and good artists there
[09:21] <Viper550> Maybe until the servers come back up, I'll just go work on Uslab and think about this later...have a nice rest of your day!
[09:31] <mhb> kwwii: good evening
[09:31] <mhb> kwwii: I'm glad to see you :o)
[09:33] <kwwii> hi mhb
[09:34] <mhb> kwwii: I played with the shutdown screen yesterday
[09:34] <mhb> kwwii: until 4 in the mornign
[09:35] <kwwii> mhb: hehe, I know that feeling
[09:37] <mhb> I tried to 1. start from the work you have done 2. try to make the shutdown dialog a bit similar to the Ubuntu shutdown dialog
[09:38] <mhb> kwwii: please, have a look: http://img161.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shutdownedgy1sk7.png
[09:38] <mhb> kwwii: I used Oxygen icons, although a bit "incorrectly", because there are no icons for shutdown/restart yet
[09:40] <kwwii> mhb: well, there is an icon for shudown
[09:40] <kwwii> boah, that looks killer :-)
[09:41] <mhb> I can put it on the Kubuntu ideas wiki, if you approve it
[09:42] <kwwii> that would be a great idea
[09:42] <kwwii> I'd love it :-)
[09:43] <mhb> kwwii: I'll do more variations when I have time
[09:44] <kwwii> mhb: sounds great
[09:59] <mhb> kwwii: I can't even find where I can attach a file to the wiki :o)
[09:59] <mhb> kwwii: it seems I don't like wikis too
[09:59] <mhb> kwwii: or the other way around
[10:08] <kwwii> attachment:yourfilename
[10:08] <kwwii> then, when you save the changes instead of a link for the file, there will be a link which allows you to upload the file(s)
[10:11] <mhb> kwwii: OK, done. Take a look, please.
[10:14] <kwwii> except for the fact that the buttons looks pretty nasty, it is nice
[10:14] <kwwii> did you export them directly from the SVGs at that size or scale them up with gimp?
[10:14] <mhb> kwwii: it's all SVG
[10:14] <mhb> kwwii: just the background is not
[10:15] <kwwii> wow
[10:15] <kwwii> that is nasty
[10:15] <kwwii> and we should fix the svg
[10:17] <mhb> kwwii: I'll attach the SVG version to the wiki
[10:18] <kwwii> mhb: cool :-)
[10:18] <Sk_Bco> what's the link please?
[10:20] <mhb> Sk_Bco: what link?
[10:22] <Sk_Bco> mhb: the link to the wiki page where one can see your file
[10:22] <kwwii> http://wiki.kubuntu.org/Artwork/Incoming/Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas
[10:22] <Sk_Bco> thanks
[10:27] <mhb> kwwii: SVG link added
[10:28] <kwwii> mhb: I think it was just my browser, scaling the pic that made it look bad
[10:28] <kwwii> on my other system the buttons look much better
[10:30] <mhb> Sk_Bco: so, what do you think?
[10:33] <Sk_Bco> which pic on the page are we talking about right now?
[10:35] <kwwii> the shutdown screen mockup
[10:37] <Sk_Bco> On first sight the buttons look a bit nasty indeed
[10:37] <Sk_Bco> but I think that's because they are different from the other sets of buttons
[10:41] <mhb> Sk_Bco: hm ...
[10:41] <mhb> Sk_Bco: they are in the same icon set (kwwii?)
[10:44] <Sk_Bco> that's your final version?
[10:46] <mhb> Sk_Bco: no, of course not
[10:46] <mhb> Sk_Bco: but I'm not the one who made the icons
[10:47] <Sk_Bco> I see
[10:48] <kwwii> the icons are from the oxygen set
[10:53] <Sk_Bco> How about adding some color? Just some color, not too much ...
[10:54] <Sk_Bco> ... maybe coloring the parts of the icons that are white
[10:54] <Sk_Bco> according to the actions ... e.g. red for "shutdown"
[10:55] <Sk_Bco> But in general I think it is nice
[10:59] <kwwii> cool
[11:05] <kwwii> about time for bed
[11:05] <Sk_Bco> same here
[11:05] <Sk_Bco> Goodnight! :-)
[11:05] <Sk_Bco> Bye!
[11:07] <mhb> kwwii: goodnight
[12:01] <Guitarhero> Hey where can I get the ubuntu title font?
[12:04] <mhb> Guitarhero: in Ubuntu?