[03:21] <Lord_Athur> hi
[03:21] <crimsun> hi.
[03:22] <bddebian> Heya Lord_Athur
[03:40] <Lord_Athur> bye all
[03:58] <HellDragon> bye
[04:26] <HellDragon> hu
[04:26] <HellDragon> hi*
[04:48] <LaserJock> hi alucard :-)
[04:48] <alucard> Hi!!!
[04:49] <HellDragon> hi
[04:50] <alucard> My wife is a Kinder teacher (Puerto Rico) and I'm looking an alternative cheaper and better tha MS Windows and softwares.
[04:51] <alucard> I found ubuntu and I order the all collections including edubuntu.
[04:51] <LaserJock> cool
[04:51] <lecaros> alucard, welcome to edubuntu world :)
[04:52] <alucard> Right now I'm using a laptop with Ubuntu.
[04:52] <lecaros> nice
[04:53] <alucard> What I really need is to know what teachers are doing with edubuntu in the class rooms.
[04:54] <LaserJock> well, I think that would be a great question for the edubunt-users mailing list
[04:54] <LaserJock> edubuntu-users rather
[04:54] <LaserJock> as there are quite a few teachers using Edubuntu
[04:55] <alucard> I few months ago I saw a website linked in the edubuntu Homepage that showed the projects and methods introduced by teachers in the class, but I can't find the link anymore.
[04:57] <alucard> Ubuntu is the easiest Linux Distro ever.
[04:59] <LaserJock> it's great for sure
[05:00] <alucard> Is there a website with linux educational software for children????
[05:01] <LaserJock> I think there is
[05:01] <LaserJock> there is a page that has an overview of the apps installed in edubuntu by default
[05:03] <LaserJock> I think there are a few Linux educational app pages out there, I just don't know of any off hand
[05:03] <LaserJock> the edubuntu-users list should have lots more info
[05:05] <alucard> I'm going to check it. Thank You!!!
[05:06] <LaserJock> no problemo
[05:06] <LaserJock> thanks for the interest
[05:08] <alucard> I'm very pleased with Ubuntu. Thank You!!! Bye!
[05:09] <lecaros> bye alucard
[05:15] <ryan_naruto> my ubuntu doesnt recognize my usb stick when i plug it in... at first it did but when i ejected it and plugged it back in it cant detect it anymore what should i do...
[05:16] <lecaros> ryan_naruto lsusb output?
[05:17] <mhz> ryan_naruto: via LTSP (on the client) or the server?
[05:19] <HellDragon> he
[05:42] <mhz> is lulu.com the one to print EHB?
[05:42] <mhz> LaserJock: ?
[05:42] <LaserJock> well, I don't think that was decided yet
[05:42] <LaserJock> but it certainly could be
[05:43] <LaserJock> nothing preventing it
[05:43] <mhz> LaserJock: ah, but when I read "Lulu", they are talkin gbaout it
[05:43] <mhz> ?
[05:44] <LaserJock> oh yeah
[05:44] <mhz> LaserJock: thx
[07:01] <HedgeMage> hi jsgotangco 
[07:01] <jsgotangco> hey
[07:01] <HedgeMage> How are you?
[07:01] <jsgotangco> rains here are so bad at the moment, my connection always drops
[07:01] <jsgotangco> its been raining here for a week already
[07:01] <HedgeMage> awww
[07:02] <HedgeMage> better than the heat here, I bet.
[07:02] <jsgotangco> we do have summers here (2 months ago) but we don't experience them higher than 40C
[07:03] <HedgeMage> I have no idea how hot that is, I can't think in celsius
[07:03] <HedgeMage> doesn't sound that hot, though.
[07:03] <jsgotangco> celsius
[07:03] <jsgotangco> yeah it can be a bit hot
[07:03] <jsgotangco> but some parts of the globe like AU go beyond that
[07:04] <jsgotangco> but then, i live just above the equator so its pretty normal for us
[07:04] <LaserJock> 25C is around room temp ~75 F
[07:04] <jsgotangco> so what's up
[07:36] <marcel`> Good morning
[07:36] <marcel`> Good morning
[07:36] <marcel`> sorry typo
[09:05] <RichEd> morning to all :)
[09:06] <jsgotangco> hi
[09:07] <RichEd> hi jsgotangco : how was the weekend ?
[09:08] <jsgotangco> RichEd: pretty boring, its been raining for days here, with no sunlight whatsoever
[09:08] <jsgotangco> just styaed at home
[09:09] <RichEd> well we've had similar - rain, cold, mostly miserable, with a brief patch of sun. are you in winter or summer ? not sure which hemisphere you fall into ?
[09:13] <jsgotangco> just above the equator, in south east asia
[09:15] <RichEd> ah ... that would have been my guess ... just below thailand & to the left ?
[09:15] <RichEd> being so close to the equator, do you get much winter / summer variation ? or just in rainfall pattern ?
[09:18] <spacey> probably the latter:)
[09:26] <jsgotangco> we only have 2 seasons
[09:26] <jsgotangco> summer and rain
[09:27] <jsgotangco> thailand is 4 hours away by plane
[09:27] <jsgotangco> we're 1 1/2 hours away from hongkong
[09:30] <RichEd> okay ... making more sense now ... will check out a map to pin down a location.
[09:31] <RichEd> jsgotangco: i'm seinding a mail to Regina Lopez in a short while ... will CC you in
[09:32] <jsgotangco> thanks but she's in NY and has no email access till the 7th
[09:33] <RichEd> oky ... noted ...
[10:08] <RichEd> ogra: ping
[10:16] <RichEd> anyone here can offer basic info on OLPC background ?
[10:30] <RichEd> bundled edubuntu applications <- is there a ready reference list somewhere ?
[10:31] <jsgotangco> RichEd: as in what the project is all about?
[10:33] <jsgotangco> RichEd: http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/school-advocacy/C/index.html
[10:33] <RichEd> jsgotangco: as in we have a h/w mnf talkong about his own OLPC project ... i need to make sure my understanding is correct ... question follows
[10:33] <jsgotangco> RichEd: the link is for your 2nd question btw
[10:33] <RichEd> tx: just found the advocacy link myself ... tx.
[10:35] <jsgotangco> ok
[10:35] <RichEd> quick question (while rodarvus is not available) for OLPC ... is there a specific version of Edubuntu & Ubuntu to cope with the limited hardware spec, or is it a custom version per specific OLPC config. dsign.
[10:36] <jsgotangco> nope there is none at the moment, that's why rodarvus has an OLPC board with him to check what we can do
[10:37] <jsgotangco> its actually his job to make an OLPC compliant version of Ubuntu
[10:42] <RichEd> just to get my understanding 100% - i'm assuming that there is no generic OLPC hardware spec ? i.e. various manf. will come up with their own was of cutting cost (and hence their own funcky or trimmed down h/w components) ?
[10:43] <RichEd> and hence there may be a custom version required for each manf. h/w config ? 
[10:43] <RichEd> or is the ideal to have either:
[10:43] <RichEd> 1) all OLPC manf. conforming to a (broad) standard
[10:44] <RichEd> or 2) an Edubuntu / Ubuntu OLPC install that copes with OLPC variations
[10:44] <jsgotangco> no its basically 1)
[10:45] <jsgotangco> your contact might not be conforming to 1)
[10:45] <jsgotangco> which is not surprising
[10:45] <jsgotangco> have you seen the OLPC wiki?
[10:46] <jsgotangco> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Hardware_specification
[10:47] <jsgotangco> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Software
[10:48] <RichEd> jsgotangco: i will point them to the same OLPC links and ask about this "your contact might not be conforming to 1)"
[10:48] <jsgotangco> well they might have a different plan
[10:48] <jsgotangco> to provide a cheap laptop
[10:49] <jsgotangco> not necessarily an OLPC kind
[11:06] <RichEd> well this is the official request, but the east to west english translation it ambiguous: You may know _xxx_ is OLPC ODM company. Except working with OLPC organization, _xxx_ is planning our own commercial model. 
[11:07] <RichEd> and they are aiming at a mode for "richer students" @ $ 200
[11:07] <jsgotangco> ahhh
[11:07] <RichEd> best to ask for clarity ... keep it clear from the start. thanks ... i'll manage from here.
[11:08] <jsgotangco> i think they want to sell it themselves
[11:08] <jsgotangco> rather than having a government contract to distribute them
[11:30] <ogra> RichEd, pong
[11:30] <RichEd> hi ogra ... sorted out my query with some help from jsgotangco ... thanks. done.
[11:30] <ogra> oki :)
[01:31] <cbx33> there is still a large amount of spam coming through on edubuntu-devel
[01:31] <cbx33> is there anything more we can do about this?
[01:33] <ogra> there is spam getting throuhg ??
[01:34] <jsgotangco> i dont receive it, its most likely the admin mails
[01:35] <cbx33> Well, admin mails have a different header don;t they?
[01:35] <ogra> yep
[01:35] <jsgotangco> yes
[01:35] <jsgotangco> if they don't appear in the archive, then only the admins are receiving it
[01:35] <cbx33> These are coming through just like normal emails
[01:35] <cbx33> right hang on
[01:35] <cbx33> lemme check
[01:35] <cbx33> ok
[01:35] <cbx33> I'm stupid
[01:35] <jsgotangco> i dont see any spam
[01:35] <cbx33> ignore me
[01:36] <jsgotangco> :D
[01:36] <cbx33> ogra: I got rsyncer working
[01:36] <ogra> damned ... i'll spend my whole day with that powermanager crap ...
[01:36] <cbx33> can patch you later
[01:36] <ogra> cbx33, great .... i'll check it if i find the time
[01:36] <cbx33> that's fine
[01:36] <cbx33> I may make a slight alteration for grasynco
[01:37] <cbx33> the create function will need to be modified so it doesn't rsync
[01:37] <ogra> currently i'm having a bad day de to gnome-power-manager shanged most of the core code and i have to rewrite 90% of the patches 
[01:37] <cbx33> just sets up directories
[01:37] <ogra> s/de/due/
[01:37] <cbx33> yikes
[01:37] <cbx33> sorry dude
[01:37] <jsgotangco> yikes
[01:37] <cbx33> I'd offer to help, but not sure I could do much could i?
[01:37] <ogra> nah ...
[01:37] <jsgotangco> hmm double yikes, i got application rejections already :D
[01:38] <cbx33> applications for?
[01:38] <jsgotangco> work heh
[01:38] <cbx33> ah
[01:38] <jsgotangco> i just smile when i rejected
[01:38] <cbx33> those are all too familiar to me
[01:39] <jsgotangco> heh one was Canonical
[01:39] <cbx33> yup I got one of them too :p
[01:39] <jsgotangco> lol welcome to the club
[01:39] <cbx33> we'll go out for a virtual drink later :p
[01:40] <cbx33> club members only :p
[01:40] <jsgotangco> heh
[01:40] <ogra> jsgotangco, for which one did you apply at canonical ?
[01:41] <jsgotangco> hmm i dont remember lemme check
[01:41] <cbx33> Hahaha
[01:41] <cbx33> :p
[01:41] <jsgotangco> im sure i submitted for 2 jobs
[01:41] <jsgotangco> i still didnt get rejected on the other one so yeahhhh
[01:42] <ogra> hehe 
[01:42] <jsgotangco> hehe i got rejected on community manager
[01:42] <jsgotangco> anyways im not really a community leader of sorts
[01:44] <jsgotangco> he can be good at it
[01:44] <Seveas> ogra, I haven't -- not nearly enough experience
[01:45] <jsgotangco> yeah that's one thing
[01:45] <jsgotangco> ive had enough community experience i'd say but locally
[01:46] <ogra> i dont think an external guy with much community experience would help if he has no *ubuntu* community experience ...
[01:47] <jsgotangco> i dunno probably someone with organizational skills like mdke can fit the job
[01:47] <ogra> well, i dont see mdke deeply involved in so many areas ...
[01:48] <jsgotangco> we will just know when someone comes out and says he's the new guy heh
[01:48] <ogra> you need to me active widespread in many areas ... the commuity is more than just the dcteam :)
[01:48] <ogra> *doc
[01:48] <ogra> s/me/be/
[01:49] <cbx33> I'd love the community bazaar job :p
[01:49] <ogra> jsgotangco, sure we will ... but it would be wrong to have an external guy who doesnt have 100% trus of the community ...
[01:49] <cbx33> ogra: i agree
[01:49] <ogra> (imho ... and i''m not canonical HR)
[01:51] <ogra> btw, did everybody send feedback to AliasVegas ? 
[01:52] <jsgotangco> well...
[01:57] <spacey> feedback about what?
[02:01] <ogra> spacey, about artwork, like she ased for in the last meeting 
[02:01] <ogra> *asked
[02:02] <spacey> ah, i missed that. lots of family obligations. :/
[02:04] <ogra> she asked for feedback about the current theme (what you dont like in dappers theme and why) and for suggestions for the edgy theme
[02:06] <spacey> ah ok
[02:33] <marcel`> Will there be a next edubuntu release in octobre?
[02:38] <ogra> marcel`, sure
[02:41] <marcel`> ogra: Great! are all the developers of Ebuntu in this channel?
[02:41] <ogra> yup
[02:42] <marcel`> Great work for this amount of people :)
[02:42] <ogra> :)
[02:42] <marcel`> I would like to help but im kinda new to linux so i think ill only screw things up
[02:44] <RichEd> marcel`:  many people help in many ways ... from development to artwork !
[02:45] <ogra> (over documentation :) )
[02:45] <RichEd> if you are interested, send me a list of skills or voluntary effort you would be keen to put in and we will find you a welcome home
[02:45] <marcel`> ogra: What do you mean?
[02:46] <ogra> marcel`,  from development over documentation to artwork 
[02:46] <marcel`> ogra: Ah oke
[02:47] <RichEd> creata a PVT window to me if you want to chat further on this
[02:47] <marcel`> PVT is PM?
[02:48] <Petaris> marcel`: Yes
[02:48] <Petaris> Hi ogra
[02:49] <ogra> hey
[02:56] <jsgotangco> im going to sleep
[02:56] <jsgotangco> good night all
[02:56] <marcel`> good night jsgotangco 
[02:56] <jsgotangco> nice weather to sleep too
[03:30] <bddebian> Hello
[03:35] <RichEd> hi
[03:36] <RichEd> pretty quiet here now ... going out for 20 mins.
[03:46] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi all, i was wondering if someone could confirm/fail to confirm a bug for me? its something i only seem to have had with edubuntu+swcanner
[03:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> its bug 42775 fyi
[03:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> and bug 42773 as well
[03:47] <Kamping_Kaiser> (swscanner again)
[03:51] <ogra> well, it should at least recommend kdesu ...
[03:52] <Kamping_Kaiser> but surely it should use whats available - in this case gksu, not kdesu
[03:53] <ogra> that would require a kind of intelligence in the .desktop file we dont have
[03:54] <Kamping_Kaiser> shouldnt the install script take care of it in postinst?
[03:55] <ogra> thats an issue you could discuss on the -devel mailing list ... there is no requirement for such a thing yet ...
[03:56] <ogra> but if it uses kdesu it should in any case at least recommend kdesu ... thats indeed a bug
[03:58] <ogra> writing a spec without discussion isnt the right way :)
[03:59] <ogra> just point out the bugs and ask if that wouldnt be better if we generated .desktop entrys in postinst based on availability of the needed admin tool
[03:59] <ogra> if th erest of discussion leads anywhere you can spec it
[04:00] <Kamping_Kaiser> sounds like a good idea - i'm just not sure i'm able to express stuff well enough to make a sane email :)
[04:07] <Petaris>  Anyone remember a while back, Sun (I think) released a product that would take legacy apps and make them avaliable via a web interface?
[04:07] <Petaris> I had it bookmarked but I must have lost it
[04:08] <Petaris> It was /.ed at the time so I couldn't check it out
[04:09] <marcel`> Does anyone here know where the icons for a default edubuntu is stored on the FS?
[04:10] <Petaris> marcel`: Probably in /usr/share/pixmaps or /usr/share/icons
[04:12] <marcel`> Petaris: thanks ill check it out right away
[04:12] <Kamping_Kaiser> ogra, do you th8ink i should email devel? is it worth it basicly
[04:13] <ogra> yes
[04:13] <ogra> else i wouldnt have suggested it :)
[04:14] <Kamping_Kaiser> heh :) i'll start a draft (note i should do it basicly), and do it wheni get home morning day after tomorrow
[04:14] <Petaris> ahh, found it
[04:14] <Petaris> Sun Secure Global Desktop Software 4.2
[04:15] <marcel`> Aww man i cant find that great firefox icon anywhere.. sugestions?
[04:16] <ogra> marcel`, the one from the gartoon iconset ? 
[04:16] <ogra> look in /usr/shre/icons
[04:16] <ogra> *share
[04:18] <marcel`> Awsome i got it thanks
[04:27] <marcel`> hm that weird i found the icons in /usr/share/icons/gartoon/scalable but if i want to select een icon for one of my launcher it just doesnt see them in the list
[04:27] <Kamping_Kaiser> night all
[04:27] <marcel`> GN Kamping_Kaiser 
[04:28] <Kamping_Kaiser> :)
[04:30] <mhz> hi all
[04:31] <mhz> RichEd: got my email?
[04:34] <RichEd> yep ... sure did ... i saw your question this morning, but you were gone already (sorry i was not ignoring you ... did not mark myeslf away for the weekend)
[04:34] <RichEd> will send you a response before i close off for the day today ... within the next 2 hours
[04:36] <mhz> RichEd: heheh, do not worry, I would find it difficult to believe someone committed to this channel and project would ever ignore other person with no reason at all ;)
[04:37] <RichEd> well there is also "committed" as in "committed to a insane asylum" so you can never be to sure ;)
[04:37] <RichEd> too <- to
[04:38] <mhz> hehehe
[04:38] <mhz> yeah
[04:38] <mhz> god point
[04:39] <mhz> RichEd: and BTW, I did try my best to sum up that email. Sorry if it still got too long. And if there are some missing details, well, it was the summing up fault
[04:39] <mhz> :)
[04:40] <RichEd> mhz: no problem ... enough to get me started on a conversation with you. expect an acknowledgement from me today, and a some suggestions over the next few days.
[04:43] <mhz> cool
[05:35] <Petaris> Anyone know of a program for linux (or a web based program) that is akin to Read Naturally (http://www.readnaturally.com)
[05:38] <cberlo> Hi folks.  I'm back at configuring my shiny new LTSP server...  I'm looking for pointers on getting printing set up so that I can assign individual printers per user.  I.E. I want user1 to map to printer1, user2 to map to printer2, user3 to map back to printer1, etc.
[05:39] <cberlo> I have all of my users authenticating through winbind and have them in unique groups.  I'm planning to map the printers based on which group they're in.  Is this feasible with Edubuntu LTSP at the moment?
[05:46] <cberlo> ogra:  How's progress on LTSP coming along?  I've been reading enough today my eyes are already bugging out, and I've just come back from vacation....  
[05:46] <hlabs> can edubuntu be setup as a kiosk
[05:47] <mhz> re
[05:48] <mhz> hlabs: sorry, but what do you mean by 'kiosk' ?
[05:49] <ogra> hlabs, sure, install sabayon and create profiles ...
[05:49] <hlabs> A small, self-standing structure such as a newstand or ticket booth. Unattended multimedia kiosks dispense public information via computer screens. Either a keyboard, touch screen or both are used for input
[05:49] <hlabs> that was the definition
[05:49] <hlabs> thanks ogra i will try out sabayon
[05:51] <ogra> cberlo, what direction do you mean? the merge with upstream or the development of edgy specs ? 
[05:53] <mhz> ogra: thx, I was kind of lost there as I have not been able to run sbayaon on this old pc's ;)
[05:53] <cberlo> ogra: mostly, development in general.  Things like local devices, printing, etc.
[05:53] <ogra> local devices are specced very well, i'll start implementing them mid of first week in august ...
[05:53] <cberlo> Been trying to enable as many features as possible, and I keep running into lack of documentation or non-implemented features
[05:53] <mhz> hlabs: please let me know if sabayon works for you and if it is what you needed. My guess is that there will be more people with similar questions
[05:54] <ogra> printing is included in dapper already but buggy, thats rather bughunting than developing :)
[05:54] <hlabs> well. You see im new to this linux OS.
[05:54] <cberlo> ogra: Is there an implemented way to automatically switch default printers on the thin client based on who logs in?
[05:54] <hlabs> there is a lot of difference here. in XP you can setup a Webpage as a your desktop
[05:55] <hlabs> but in ubuntu you can't do that
[05:55] <ogra> cberlo, nope
[05:55] <cberlo> ogra: Thanks for the straightforward answer.  :)
[05:55] <ogra> :)
[05:55] <mhz> ogra: as most of edubuntu apps are not specific to edubuntu, if volunteers wanted to translate apps (shipped by edubuntu), they'd do it via Rosetta and look up ubuntu apps?
[05:55] <ogra> but thats something we could implement in edgy+1 if you write a nice spec  ;)
[05:56] <ogra> mhz, yup
[05:56] <cberlo> How long until edgy+1?
[05:56] <ogra> development starts in october
[05:56] <Petaris> Its sad that so many of the comercial educational softwares have no viable linux or truly web based alternatives
[05:56] <ogra> (edgy releases in oct)
[05:57] <ogra> Petaris, we'll just write better ones ;)
[05:57] <cberlo> I really want to use Edubuntu for this project, but more and more it's looking like I'm going to have to switch to the "main" K12 LTSP stuff to get things up for September...
[05:57] <ogra> it will solve itself over time
[05:57] <mhz> hlabs: well, true, Linux comes from a different world, therefore different approach. However, during last 5 years, there has been lots of work towards desktop and end-user
[05:57] <Petaris> ogra: You have to find people who can, and have the drive to, or be able to hire someone(s) to do it
[05:58] <Petaris> And then some of these apps have to have certifications from the government (at least in the US)
[05:58] <hlabs> mhz you missed my point. See if you use XP you can setup a webpage to be your active desktop. So technically it would then become a multimedia kio
[05:58] <ogra> cberlo, k12 switchs printers on clients based on the user logged in ?
[05:58] <hlabs> *kiosk
[05:59] <mhz> hlabs: oh, yup
[05:59] <Petaris> It would be cool if there was a central location to list comercial apps that need good OSS alternatives
[05:59] <mhz> hlabs: so you can do it in OSX
[05:59] <ogra> hlabs, you can install the epiphany browser, set it with sabayon or pessulus to operate in fullscreen and have the same ...
[05:59] <cberlo> ogra: Not that I'm aware of, but it does have the local device access stuff working, and a VNCReflector setup that allows my teachers to "peek in" on students...
[05:59] <mhz> hlabs: maybe there is a way to do it like that in linux too, but I do not know.
[06:00] <ogra> cberlo, both planned features for edgy ...
[06:00] <hlabs> yeah i will surely try that approach
[06:00] <cberlo> Okay, I'll persevere.  And see if I can script the printer stuff....
[06:00] <cberlo> ogra: how should I go about writing a spec for edgy+1 for printer scripting per user?
[06:01] <ogra> cberlo, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientLocalDevices, https://wiki.edubuntu.org/StudentControlPanelCompletion
[06:01] <hlabs> say by the way you folks won't happen to how to setup edubuntu or ubuntu to become usefull in a cyber cafe enviroment
[06:01] <mhz> hlabs: does kiosk also means other users can use your computer resources and apps. remotely, defining which user can do this or that?
[06:01] <cberlo> hlabs: there are howtos on that kind of thing on the net -- I looked into it before, but not with Ubuntu.
[06:02] <mhz> hlabs: Edubuntu is aimed towards computer labs, for edu purposes
[06:02] <mhz> hlabs: and that goal is achieved
[06:02] <hlabs> well to be honest. I tried to use edubuntu. Hoping that it would become a terminal server etv. Buts  its not working out
[06:02] <mhz> hlabs: kiosk mode is something I am not familiar with so far.
[06:02] <cberlo> ogra: Does Edubuntu's CUPS implementation include the LPDEST variable anywhere?
[06:03] <mhz> hlabs: what issues did you get?
[06:03] <ogra> cberlo, no need to ask me here, i'm in #ltsp ... and i dont know :)
[06:03] <hlabs> well kiosk is just a fancy way of saying that the pc is in lockdown and users cant change anything. And that they have access to stuff setup by the admin
[06:03] <cberlo> haha.  Sorry 'bout that -- didn't see you over there.
[06:04] <mhz> hlabs: linux does that in many ways, by default. Sabayon is the app to create diff. profile
[06:04] <mhz> hlabs: and you can also do that without sabayon even
[06:04] <hlabs> my issue was that i followed all the instructions to setup edubuntu alas. When i connected to it via an Hp e-pc it would not work
[06:05] <hlabs> yeah but here is the dumb part of the process. The admin has to kick or boot the user at the end of their sessions
[06:05] <mhz> hlabs: if you have SomeGroup, and users in that group, and you define which apps or access these users will have, no matter which way you boot up (LTSP or locally), users will be forced to play by the rules defined by you.
[06:06] <hlabs> well how can i do that 
[06:06] <cberlo> I'll see if I can submit a spec on that printing thing.  Looks like you guys are already on it, so if I can come up with anything, I'll let you know.
[06:06] <mhz> hlabs: re Edubuntu issue/ we'd need a little bit of more info so we can understand what went wrong for you when trying Edubuntu
[06:07] <cberlo> ogra: Thanks again.  I'll continue to work on my Edubuntu install here.  Hopefully it'll be "good enough" for September (per my supervisor).
[06:07] <mhz> hlabs: you could try sabayon
[06:09] <mhz> hlabs: and there are some caybercafes settings via Linux, I am sure. Edubuntu could work there beatifully. And if you need a way to charge users per hour, yeah, there are some apps that run even via web
[06:10] <hlabs> well i got the billing part done right. I even manged to build a voip platform for the     cafe its just that i loaded up edu. and all was set . It was not showing any problems. Then i tried my terminal pc to connect to it. And bamm it could not find the dhcp from the edu servver
[06:10] <mhz> hlabs: Edubuntu server is a machine that provides apps and hardware resources to run those apps from 'thin-clients' or less powerfull machines that only have little RAM but not enough processor.
[06:12] <mhz> hlabs: then, you should check two things at least  a) is the client network card able to boot via net   b) is the dhcp config set correctly
[06:12] <hlabs> well the client is able to boot via the network. And the dhcp settings are the same as that of the screenshhot
[06:13] <mhz> hlabs: yeah, but your dhcp settings must be according to your own network settings
[06:14] <mhz> hlabs: could you paste.bin your network settings and your dhcp ones?
[06:14] <hlabs> well my setup is kinda based on dynamic settings. See there is the modem then the router then the edu server. From there its all going to the switch that distributes it all to the thin clients
[06:14] <mhz> hlabs: good, that sounds correct
[06:15] <hlabs> but then the miserable thin client does not locate dhcp. I took the same machine to a buddy of mines netowrk and it works there                       
[06:15] <mhz> hlabs: the modem (ISP) provides dynamic IP to your router, and the router provides local IP to the edu server only?
[06:16] <hlabs> yeah the router provides dynamic ip to the edu server
[06:16] <mhz> router = usually provides dhcp  |   eduserver = always provides dhcp
[06:16] <mhz> hlabs: so, if 2 machines provide dhcp... most likely there will be conflict
[06:17] <mhz> (obv. i mean in same network)
[06:17] <hlabs> so what should i do
[06:17] <hlabs> then
[06:17] <mhz> hlabs: first, I'd suggest you try disconnectin the eduserver from router
[06:18] <mhz> so, leave only this: Eduserver -> swithc -> client
[06:18] <mhz> if client boot, it was router conflict
[06:18] <mhz> :)
[06:18] <mhz> typos!
[06:18] <mhz> sorry
[06:18] <hlabs> hey that sounds like a very good idea.
[06:19] <mhz> hlabs: and I now must leave, else I am gonna be told off
[06:19] <hlabs> but how would i connect my hotspot . It has to have access to the internet                  
[06:19] <mhz> hlabs: good luck
[06:19] <hlabs> ok thanks for everything
[06:19] <ogra> you cant run two dhcp servers in ne net at the same time if you need to boot from one of them ... i'd suggest getting a second network card
[06:19] <hlabs> i will try your suggestion out
[06:19] <mhz> hlabs: i am sure others here will jump in and help too
[06:19] <ogra> (and setting up a second network as well fro the clients)
[06:20] <mhz> ogra: yup +1
[06:20] <ogra> edubuntu will default to a two NIC setup from edgy on as well ... to avoid this problem one and for all
[06:20] <hlabs> well thats just dandy
[06:27] <LaserJock> ogra: hmm, I got a reply back from the sabayon dev
[06:28] <LaserJock> Most of the developers of sabayon have all their time filled up with
[06:28] <LaserJock> working on other modules, so its not very actively maintained. However,
[06:28] <LaserJock> its not dead or anything. We very much would like it to get better.
[06:28] <ogra> yay
[06:28] <LaserJock> that's a quote ^^
[06:28] <ogra> sounds like "patces accepted" :P
[06:28] <bddebian> LaserJock: Yeah, so get to work ;-P
[06:29] <ogra> he could have expressed it shorter ;)
[06:29] <bddebian> ogra: I'm checking on hula, do you mind?
[06:29] <ogra> me ?
[06:29] <ogra> why should i ?
[06:29] <bddebian> You where the last one to upload to Ubuntu
[06:29] <ogra> really ? 
[06:29] <LaserJock> ogra: he also said "Merging profiles sounds quite hard. It might be possible for the gconf
[06:29] <LaserJock> stuff, but for the copy-a-file backends its not obvious how it would
[06:29] <LaserJock> work."
[06:29] <ogra> my mind must be really bad then 
[06:29] <bddebian> Yep, apparently it hasn't been thrown up since hoary ;-)
[06:30] <LaserJock> hehe
[06:30] <ogra> bddebian, go ahead then :)
[06:30] <bddebian> Thx
[06:33] <bddebian> Fruck, lost my ssh connection :-(
[06:47] <rodarvus> bddebian: note that current hula from svn is not really useful
[06:47] <rodarvus> (or is not supposed to be)
[06:47] <bddebian> rodarvus: ?
[06:47] <rodarvus> its in a state of flux
[06:55] <bddebian> So I shouldn't sync with Debian?
[06:56] <ogra> test it :P
[06:56] <ogra> should be fine to drop my (in fact herzis) package completely and use the debian one
[06:57] <ogra> the hoary version was the very first release they ever made ... anything should be better than that
[06:57] <ogra> i think it was even a prerelease
[07:02] <Amaranth> aww, rejected
[07:04] <bddebian> ogra: OK, thx
[07:11] <ogra> Amaranth, yeah, two issues ...
[07:11] <Amaranth> yeah
[07:11] <Amaranth> i might as well do all of the other stuff too while i'm at it though
[07:11] <ogra> as you like :)
[07:13] <ogra> btw, the .desktop file should have Categories=GNOME;Application;Settings;System; and X-KDE-SubstituteUID=true
[07:13] <ogra> so it shows only in sudoers menus and is in the system settings ... 
[07:20] <Amaranth> looks like i have to start working on this in edgy
[07:22] <ogra> well, "packaging" is even included in the project name :) 
[07:25] <LaserJock> I think my conclusion is that sabayon just isn't going to work for dynamic-menus, unless I can find a way around needing to merge profiles.
[07:25] <LaserJock> sabayon just includes too much data
[07:26] <ogra> so whats the solution ?
[07:27] <LaserJock> is it possible, as Amaranth has suggested, to be able to set XDG_DATA_DIR for the users?
[07:27] <ogra> addimg a profile editor as add-on to alacarte ? (i.e. writing a small standalone pygtk gui and add a button to alacarte)
[07:27] <Amaranth> you'd need some sort of login hook to set it
[07:27] <ogra> Xsession.d
[07:27] <LaserJock> I'm trying to avoid the seb problem, but I'm not sure what all that intails
[07:28] <LaserJock> we just can't touch gnome-menus like what was done for sudo, correct?
[07:28] <Amaranth> ?
[07:28] <Amaranth> ogra: you also have to generate .menu files for all the groups on the system
[07:29] <ogra> if you can do it by XDG_DATA_DIR and we add a Xsession.d script, that should work, no ?
[07:29] <Amaranth> ogra: then teach alacarte how to edit "root" menus and you're set (mostly)
[07:29] <Amaranth> afaik unless you actually edit the content of a menu item alacarte doesn't touch it anymore (it uses .menu files for hiding and moving) so that should be ok
[07:30] <Amaranth> the main catch is generating the .menu files for every group
[07:30] <LaserJock> well, we planed on shipping predifined .menu files for the groups we wanted
[07:31] <Amaranth> the .menus files wouldn't have to do much, just merge in the /etc/xdg/menus/ .menu files
[07:31] <Amaranth> that works then
[07:31] <LaserJock> I mean sabayon would be ok if we could just pick out the menu stuff
[07:32] <LaserJock> but there is nothing stoping the admin from putting firefox stuff in the profile for instance
[07:32] <LaserJock> and then you might have a problem
[07:32] <Amaranth> now you either need a way to set XDG_DATA_DIRS before launching alacarte or a sudo user that's in each group
[07:33] <Petaris> ogra: Is there anyone besides ajmitch that is working on the AD integration?
[07:33] <LaserJock> Petaris: ajmitch has been around the last few day, he's just not up yet
[07:33] <Amaranth> a separate GUI that just launches "XDG_DATA_DIRS=/foo alacarte --root" would work (said GUI is already launched with gksudo)
[07:33] <LaserJock> right
[07:33] <LaserJock> that's what I was thinking
[07:34] <ogra> why a separate gui ? thats even only a separate .desktop entry
[07:34] <Amaranth> GNOME is about to be in feature freeze so I'd have to include the root mode as a patch in the package
[07:34] <Petaris> LaserJock: When does he usually pop in?
[07:34] <Amaranth> ogra: a separate .desktop file for every group?
[07:34] <ogra> no, only one .desktop file for the above command
[07:35] <ogra> gksudo 'XDG_DATA_DIRS=/foo alacarte --root'
[07:35] <Amaranth> ogra: you have to set XDG_DATA_DIRS to something different for every group
[07:35] <LaserJock> Petaris: hmm, not quite sure. He is in New Zealand so it might be a few more hours. You could always try emailing him
[07:35] <ogra> ah
[07:35] <ogra> ok
[07:35] <ogra> right, but that would be a failrly simple gui ...
[07:35] <Amaranth> indeed
[07:36] <LaserJock> although, we still need to handle a user belonging to more than one group
[07:36] <Amaranth> just a list of groups and a button to launch alacarte for the selected group
[07:36] <Amaranth> LaserJock: -ESEP
[07:36] <Amaranth> Somebody Else's Problem :)
[07:36] <LaserJock> aka, me :-)
[07:36] <Amaranth> LaserJock: there is no sane method of handling that
[07:37] <Amaranth> there might be any possible method of handling that
[07:37] <ogra> whats the problem ? as far as i understood it, xdg is capable of reading from different sources
[07:37] <LaserJock> Aaron was talking about that overlay thing
[07:37] <ogra> you just need to create a merged menu file ...
[07:37] <Amaranth> the problem with putting things in applications-merged/ is that they load in random order
[07:38] <Amaranth> and alacarte will still only edit one .menu file
[07:38] <LaserJock> ok, so what if we had a simple gui that had the groups and the alacarte button and then merged the menus some way and put them in the ~/ of all the users
[07:39] <LaserJock> we only need this thing to set up the menu once in a while
[07:39] <LaserJock> it wouldn't neccessarily need to be at every login
[07:41] <Amaranth> so you edit a group's .menu file with alacarte, click another button in this GUI, and it shoves .menu files in every user's ~/.config/menus/?
[07:41] <LaserJock> yeah
[07:41] <LaserJock> like an "Apply" button or something
[07:41] <Amaranth> i suppose that could work
[07:41] <Amaranth> but the merging would be a PITA
[07:42] <Amaranth> doable, but not just a simple merge, you have to keep track of <Move>s and crap
[07:42] <Amaranth> well, it might be doable
[07:42] <LaserJock> well, it wouldn't be a problem I don't think for most of our stuff
[07:42] <Amaranth> but you're letting admins do whatever they want to these menus
[07:42] <LaserJock> we mostly want the absence or presence of items
[07:42] <LaserJock> true
[07:43] <Amaranth> if for one group they move Games into a submenu and for another group they add a couple of things to Games merging the two gets tricky
[07:43] <Amaranth> you have to make sure the move happens after the adding
[07:44] <LaserJock> arg
[07:45] <LaserJock> well the simpilest thing I can think of is shipping predefined .menu files that aren't editable
[07:45] <LaserJock> but that doesn't seem very nice
[07:47] <Amaranth> yeah
[07:47] <Amaranth> in my example you can do some fun stuff to put the move at the end
[07:47] <Amaranth> but i can quickly give you an example that is undoable without manual help
[07:48] <Amaranth> For one group they move System Tools into Administration and for another group they move it into Preferences how do you handle that?
[07:48] <Amaranth> that should be two sentences :)
[07:51] <LaserJock> well, it would be nice to make an assumption or two about what kind of editing we need
[07:51] <LaserJock> and be able to limit to those
[07:57] <Amaranth> LaserJock: i don't think i want to hack up alacarte that badly
[07:57] <LaserJock> I agree
[08:01] <LaserJock> Amaranth: will Edgy's alacarte have --root support?
[08:02] <Amaranth> if it's needed i can add it
[08:03] <ogra> thats totally enough for now ... no weird hacking please :)
[08:03] <LaserJock> yes
[08:04] <cbx33> evenin guys
[08:04] <LaserJock> hi cbx33 
[08:04] <cbx33> hey LaserJock 
[08:05] <ogra> what about pointing the user menus to a system dir that contains .menu files that are only readable by a certain group ... 
[08:05] <ogra> we could solve it on a filesystem level 
[08:06] <ogra> no idea how xdg behaves with such a case though
[08:09] <LaserJock> hmm, I don't know either
[08:09] <ogra> i mean you have a directory full of .menu files but each is only readable by its group and editable by root
[08:10] <LaserJock> again, what about a user belonging to multiple groups? how does xdg handle that?
[08:11] <ogra> i guess you end up with doubled menu entries (but thats only a guess)
[08:11] <LaserJock> it seems like merge work would have to be done at some point
[08:24] <crimsun> it sounds like there needs to be a bit more logic at a higher level
[08:24] <crimsun> the fs level sounds fine; you're just pushing the complexity up one layer
[08:25] <LaserJock> hmm, can I get that in english?
[08:26] <crimsun> erm. Ok, say you go the route that ogra proposed; to avoid duplicate entries you'll need to filter, which pushes the complexity into the menu app
[08:27] <LaserJock> right
[08:31] <LaserJock> so we have 1) use fs level and filter out duplicates (not sure what that would invlove) or 2) create tool to merge menus and put in user's ~/
[08:45] <RichEd> hi guys ... 
[08:46] <LaserJock> hi RichEd 
[08:47] <RichEd> hi LaserJock 
[08:48] <RichEd> LaserJock: how's your knowledge of networking under Linux ?
[08:48] <RichEd> went off to gym and went out of range of the Wireless Hub ... and now that I am back home ... it won't recover
[08:49] <RichEd> not sure how to restart the interface on Edubuntu so that it searches for the signal ?
[08:49] <LaserJock> my knowledge of networking under anything is pretty bad. I know enough to be able to setup a home network and that's about it
[08:50] <crimsun> RichEd: ifdown $iface && ifup $iface
[08:50] <crimsun> e.g., sudo ifdown eth1 && sudo ifup eth1
[08:50] <crimsun> (where $iface is your network interface as listed in ``ifconfig -a'')
[08:50] <RichEd> thanks crimsun ... was looking for just that ... unload & reload it no ?
[08:51] <crimsun> reloading the kernel driver is probably overkill in this case
[08:53] <RichEd> oops ... ive dug a deeper hole for myself than I thought ... i fiddled with the ethernet settings, and it told me i changed the host name amd won't be able to start any apps until i reboot ...
[08:53] <RichEd> so can't start a terminal :(
[08:54] <RichEd> looks like reboot is my only option ?
[08:54] <LaserJock> can you change the hostname back?
[08:55] <RichEd> i didn't really change th host name, just swopped locations ... did not do any actual edit of any host entry
[08:55] <LaserJock> hmm
[08:55] <Petaris> RichEd: You could restart networking
[08:55] <Petaris> maybe
[08:56] <Petaris> not sure if hostname is handled by that or not
[08:56] <RichEd> (had this situation before ... bit didn't have eleventy seven windows open ... so am being lazy about noting what is open where and rebooting back to whare I was)
[08:56] <RichEd> where <- whare
[08:57] <RichEd> Petaris: how would i restart netrworking without a terminal prompt ?
[08:57] <Petaris> RichEd: Why don't you have a terminal prompt?
[08:58] <Petaris> oh, the hostname
[08:58] <RichEd> yep ...
[08:58] <Petaris> hrm, I did that before
[08:58] <Petaris> ummm
[08:58] <Petaris> yep, you need to reboot
[08:58] <crimsun> no, that shouldn't be necessary
[08:59] <Petaris> and maybe even go into repair mode if you buggered the system like I had done
[08:59] <crimsun> in the /worst/ case you'll have to switch to a tty (ctrl+alt+F1), log in, then ``sudo invoke-rc.d networking restart''
[08:59] <crimsun> (unless of course it's sudo that's complaining about the hostname)
[09:00] <Petaris> crimsun: When I did it, it was sudo that was complaining
[09:00] <crimsun> Petaris: yeah, that's a pain.
[09:01] <RichEd> getting somewhere ... right to the friendly message Ubuntu conmes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by applicable law ;)
[09:01] <crimsun> it's the next part that may be problematic
[09:01] <crimsun> ``sudo invoke-rc.d networking restart''   that is
[09:02] <RichEd> * reconfiguring etc. ... cursor flash flash flash
[09:02] <Petaris> crimsun: That episode just re-comfirmed my opinion that it is always wise to enable the root account
[09:02] <crimsun> Petaris: sure, it's your computer, do what you want
[09:03] <RichEd> right got an OK
[09:03] <LaserJock> \o/
[09:03] <RichEd> now how do i get back to the pretty GUI ?
[09:03] <crimsun> alt+F7
[09:04] <RichEd> ah ... still no signal ...
[09:04] <RichEd> don't want to waste your time with my knickers in my own knot so to speak ...
[09:04] <crimsun> you may have to log out and back into gnome
[09:04] <RichEd> and it is getting late for me (the wife is calling) ...
[09:04] <crimsun> oh yeah, forget the computer stuff
[09:04] <crimsun> people++
[09:04] <LaserJock> heh
[09:04] <RichEd> so perhaps a tidy up & reboot would hurt less than a domestic episoide ;)
[09:05] <LaserJock> gosh, I wish it was that easy for me
[09:05] <LaserJock> ;-)
[09:05] <RichEd> (have you seen JaneW when she is angry ;)
[09:05] <LaserJock> heh, no
[09:05] <RichEd> (or neglected ... even worse ;)
[09:05] <LaserJock> I've seen *my* wife though
[09:05] <LaserJock> not a good thing
[09:06] <crimsun> cya
[09:06] <LaserJock> when she gives you that "Ist me or the computer" stare
[09:06] <LaserJock> cya RichEd 
[09:07] <RichEd> thanks crimsum ... learnt a little bit ...
[09:07] <LaserJock> hehe
[09:07] <RichEd> bye
[09:21] <Amaranth> ogra: i've got the stuff to create a willowng user, does start-stop-daemon automagically handle the rest? cupsys doesn't seem to do anything special to run with it's own user
[09:27] <Petaris> Hi highvoltage
[10:31] <mhz> highvoltage: ping
[10:31] <HellDragon> hi
[10:31] <bddebian> Hello HellDragon
[11:23] <hazemmohamed> Hello every body, I have a problem with my screen resolution?
[11:23] <hazemmohamed> it is stick on 1280*1024 and it is not comfortable
[11:24] <hazemmohamed> I tried to change it from prefrences with no effect
[11:24] <hazemmohamed> I want it 1024*786
[11:24] <hazemmohamed> does any one can help?
[11:25] <hazemmohamed> I'm using edubuntu Dapper
[11:26] <Lord_Athur> hi all, which firewall do you recommend me?
[11:26] <mhz> Lord_Athur: iptables ?
[11:27] <Lord_Athur> pardon my ignorance mhz, what's iptables?
[11:27] <mhz> firewall
[11:28] <mhz> :)
[11:28] <Lord_Athur> yes, I want a firewall.
[11:30] <pygi> mhz, rather suggest him some interface to configure it?
[11:30] <mhz> pygi: oh, good point
[11:30] <mhz> Lord_Athur: iptables is a firewall way
[11:31] <Lord_Athur> ok mhz, so, what can i do with it in order to make it work as a firewall?
[11:31] <Lord_Athur> can I install it?
[11:31] <pygi> mhz, suggest graphical application :) Or should I do it? :P
[11:31] <pygi> Lord_Athur, it's there already, just not active
[11:32] <dan_young> Lord_Athur: are you trying to seucre a single machine or a network?
[11:32] <dan_young> *secure
[11:32] <Lord_Athur> my own and single pc
[11:33] <Lord_Athur> hahaha, pygi I've just uninstalled firestarter :(
[11:33] <pygi> Lord_Athur, what's wrong with it?
[11:34] <Lord_Athur> I'd like to try another one...
[11:34] <pygi> you could go with shorewall or write IPTABLES rules by yourself even, but I don't think that's a way to go for you
[11:34] <pygi> but who am I to know anything :P
[11:34] <Lord_Athur> hahaha, ok,
[11:35] <Lord_Athur> haha, ok, now I'm trying ipcongfu
[11:35] <mhz> re
[11:35] <Lord_Athur> don't worry,
[11:35] <dan_young> Lord_Athur: take a look at gnome-lokkit too...
[11:36] <dan_young> http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/gnome/gnome-lokkit
[11:36] <Lord_Athur> ok, 
[11:36] <Lord_Athur> what about SELinux?
[11:36] <dan_young> Lord_Athur: not a firewall
[11:36] <Lord_Athur> :)
[11:37] <dan_young> urk, looking close at gnome-lokkit, it's pretty outdated, w/ GTK1... bad recommendation, sorry.
[11:40] <pygi> Lord_Athur, may I advise that you use other general channels for your questions?
[11:40] <Lord_Athur> Yes, you may
[11:40] <pygi> I may even point you to some books/web resources if you want to read up on things :)
[11:41] <Lord_Athur> pygi, who am I to know what you may/may not do :P
[11:41] <Lord_Athur> thanks all
[11:41] <Lord_Athur> anyway GuardDog seems to be a good option if sb want to know :P
[11:42] <Lord_Athur> see u later
[11:42] <pygi> Lord_Athur, that's KDE...Edubuntu is Gnome...but anyway, your question was general as you don't use neither Linux or Edubuntu
[11:44] <HellDragon> hi
[11:44] <mhz> hi HellDragon