/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/07/24/#launchpad-meeting.txt

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mpoolhullo12:01
mpoolare we here?12:02
spivI am.12:02
lifelessdudes and dudettes12:04
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mpoolah12:05
ddaaHello, sorry for being late to the meeting, we're chatting with sabdfl now12:05
lifelessare we ?12:06
=== lifeless thought sabdfl was on leave :)
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ddaaeverybody please get acquainted with https://launchpad.canonical.com/BazaarMeetingAgenda while i'm answering a call of nature12:07
spivddaa: is my proposed item on the agenda?12:09
spivddaa: you probably want to subscribe to that page :)12:09
ddaasubscribed12:09
ddaasabdfl interrupt12:10
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SteveAspiv: hi12:13
SteveAI'm interested in how the smartserver work is going12:13
lifelessits coming along nicely12:14
lifelessall transport tests are passing, and a number of the bzrdir interface conformance tests.12:14
lifelesswe're refactoring/extending some infrastructure at the moment to accomodate it better12:14
spivI haven't actually been involved in the smartserver work recently, I've been doing other things.  I should organise another day with mpool.12:15
SteveAI don't know the plan for it, so while this is very interesting, it doesn't give me a picture of how things are going.   What's the one sentence goal, and how much is left towards that goal?12:15
lifelessuhhh12:16
lifelesswhat metric are you hoping for the answer to be in ?12:16
mpoolthe goal is to push & pull over smartserver over ssh, and have it be much faster than sftp12:16
mpooli would say we are in the middle third of the work12:17
mpoolwe plan to release it in august12:17
mpoollifeless: do you concur, doctor?12:17
lifelessI think that fits12:17
SteveAwhen you say "release", does that mean release as open source kind of release, or release to internal testing for launchpad / supermirror ?12:19
SteveAdoes it require a new bzr release?12:19
lifelessit will be a new bzr release12:19
lifelessits not a separate product12:19
mpoolyes, at least in the main public bzr.dev tree, hopefully in an actual released tarball12:21
mpoolSteveA: i've spoken to sabdfl about this and heard no suggestion we needed private testing - do you know something i don't?12:21
lifelessSteveA: integration with launchpad/supermirror is a second-stage feature. Its been designed with spivs input to allow that to take place, but its not being implemented in parallel at this point. Though that may be an idea.12:22
SteveAokay12:24
SteveAI just talked with mark, and this is all fine12:24
spivImplementing in parallel would probably help uncover unexpected issues.12:25
SteveAI'd like to get the smartserver used on the supermirror for the "launchpad 1.0" october release12:25
SteveAso, we should do some planning of that sometime12:25
mpoolspiv: yes, i'd like to keep you involved 12:26
lifelessSteveA: did you have some different expectations ?12:26
SteveAI had unformed expectations12:26
mpoolSteveA: seems like it would be nice if spiv can take responsibility for the lp side of that12:26
mpoolas he is so far12:26
SteveAI had no idea how big/long/hard/uncut a task the supermirror would be12:26
SteveAs/supermirror/smartserver/12:26
mpoolis there anything about say planning of it that he would need to know but doesn'tt?12:27
SteveAhe being mark?12:27
lifelesshttp://samba.org/~jelmer/bzr/bzr-git-kernel.png12:27
lifeless^^ awesome :)12:27
lifelessshould we cancel this meeting ?12:28
lifelessI have another in 30 minutes12:28
mpoolhe in that sentence being spiv?12:28
mpools/\?//12:28
mpoolok, let's keep moving on12:28
mpooli'll talk to stevea afterwards if that's ok12:28
SteveAah, you're in a meeting12:28
SteveAI hadn't realize12:28
SteveAd12:28
lifelessddaa is meant to be here12:29
SteveAanyway, thanks for the status update.12:29
mpool*acion* spiv, lifeless, mbp will meet this week12:29
SteveAmark is happy12:29
SteveAddaa is sprinting with jamesh12:29
lifelessbut I understand mark to be talking with him12:29
SteveAis there anything in particular you need from ddaa?12:29
lifelesshes the meeting chair :)12:29
SteveAlifeless: would you take on that role for this meeting?12:29
ddaayeah, I'm coming12:29
lifelesssure12:29
ddaaokay I'm here12:29
SteveAthanks lifeless 12:29
lifelessmeeting agenda coming up in 1012:29
lifeless(seconds)12:29
lifelessUsual introduction *      roll call *      production status12:30
lifelessCurrent focus12:30
lifeless*      SFTP advertising *      vcs-import knits *      cscvs/bzr-native *      supermirror branch browser *      private branches *      cscvs/svn-symlinks *      dyson *      About 9% of hosted branches are empty directories -- are people finding SFTP service too hard to use? (spiv)12:30
lifelessUsual end12:30
lifeless*      other meeting actions *      critical bugs *      pending sysadmin tasks *      any other business12:30
lifelessmeh12:30
lifelesssilly toolchain12:30
ddaa-EUSER12:31
spivlifeless: hey, it's more compact that way ;)12:31
ddaaSo, lifeless, spiv, mpool are here.12:31
lifelessUsual introduction *      roll call *      production status12:31
lifelessCurrent focus12:31
lifeless*      SFTP advertising *      vcs-import knits *      cscvs/bzr-native *      supermirror branch browser *      private branches *      cscvs/svn-symlinks *      dyson *      About 9% of hosted branches are empty directories -- are people finding SFTP service too hard to use? (spiv)12:31
lifelessUsual end12:31
lifeless*      other meeting actions *      critical bugs *      pending sysadmin tasks *      any other business12:31
lifelessnope, GARH12:31
ddaaJamesh, ddaa, SteveA are mostly here and being periodically NMUed by sabdfl12:31
lifelessUsual introduction12:31
lifeless    *      roll call12:31
lifeless    *      production status12:31
lifelessCurrent focus12:31
lifeless    *      SFTP advertising12:31
lifeless    *      vcs-import knits12:31
lifeless    *      cscvs/bzr-native12:31
lifeless    *      supermirror branch browser12:32
lifeless    *      private branches12:32
lifeless    *      cscvs/svn-symlinks12:32
lifeless    *      dyson12:32
lifeless    *      About 9% of hosted branches are empty directories -- are people finding SFTP service too hard to use? (spiv)12:32
lifelessUsual end12:32
lifeless    *      other meeting actions12:32
lifeless    *      critical bugs12:32
lifeless    *      pending sysadmin tasks12:32
lifeless    *      any other business12:32
lifelessthats better12:32
lifelessddaa: SteveA has asked me to chair to allow you to be NMU'd12:32
lifelessproduction status : anyone have issues to report?12:32
lifeless512:32
lifeless412:32
lifeless312:32
lifeless212:32
ddaaproblem with samba branches12:32
lifeless112:32
ddaaapparently jelmer's plugin is producing revisions that get through the branch puller12:33
lifelesswith the scanner ? there is a bug report I believe.12:33
ddaabut cause the branch scanner to crash12:33
lifelessok. who has the backtrace? can they enlarge on the bug report ?12:33
lifelessddaa: is that you ?12:33
lifelessor jamesh or spiv ?12:33
spivAnyone that gets the launchpad-errors-reports email.12:33
ddaaone of the responsibilities of the branch puller is to sanitize the data so that would not happen12:33
lifelessok, spiv can you do that ?12:33
spivI've replied to the bug already with the exception (though not the full traceback)12:33
lifelessok, any other production errors ?12:34
spivIt died in get_revision, claiming invalid XML iirc.12:34
lifelessddaa: this is a decision meeting not a design meeting12:34
lifelessddaa: please discuss the detail in the bug report12:34
ddaaI'm not having a design discussion.12:34
ddaano other issue12:34
lifelesswell you're assuming the data is invalid, it may be skew between systems for instance.12:34
spiv(bug 53825, for the record)12:34
ddaano other important issues that I'm aware of, at least12:34
lifelessspiv: can you do this examination please ?12:35
spivlifeless: I've already followed up on the bug, do you want me to dissect it further?12:35
lifelessI will eyeball it and comment12:35
lifelessok, sftp advertising12:35
lifelessthis was in ddaa's queue IIRC12:35
lifelessddaa: status  ?12:35
ddaaactions from last meeting:12:36
ddaa   * ddaa to tell jdub about existing blog entry12:36
ddaa   * jamesh to blog about team-shared branches and using them with checkouts 12:36
lifelessactually, jamesh was to blog on it12:36
lifelessthe agenda is not detailed enough.12:36
=== lifeless fixes
jameshI haven't written the article yet12:36
ddaaI did the first one, did not observe any resulting effect12:36
ddaajamesh: still planning to do it, or want to hand it over?12:36
jameshStill planning to do it12:37
lifelessok12:37
lifelessvcsimports knits12:37
ddaaaction from last meeting12:37
ddaa* ddaa to file bug about converting existing vcs-import branches to knits. 12:37
ddaamh12:37
ddaado not remember clearly12:37
ddaalooking12:38
ddaahttps://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-bazaar/+spec/vcs-imports-knits-upgrade12:38
lifelessok12:38
lifelesswho is moving this forward - you ?12:38
ddaaI would like feedback on that spec12:39
lifelessok, jamesh - could you review it while you are at the sprint?12:39
jameshokay12:39
lifelessseems like a good use of the face time12:39
lifelessok12:39
lifelessbzr-native12:39
lifelessddaa: that seems to be coming along well. 12:39
ddaafeedback has bee requested from lifeless, jamesh and steve12:40
jameshwe've been discussing the importd changes a bit this morning12:40
lifelesson bzr-native ?12:40
ddaafeedback on vcs-imports-knits-upgrade has been requested12:40
ddaawe discussed bzr-native this morning12:40
ddaagot to order food12:40
lifelessok, in progress. cool12:41
lifelessbranch browser12:41
lifelessspiv: ?12:41
ddaaaction from last meeting:12:42
ddaa* spiv to have a pre-impl call with SteveA12:42
spivNo progress worth reporting.  It's my top priority for this week.12:42
spivOh, I had that call.12:42
lifelessddaa: please dont blat the actions list, we've all read the page12:42
ddaanice, make it rock12:42
spivAnd the mail sent to the list by Steve outlines the plan.12:42
lifelessspiv: do you have an expected time of completion ?12:43
lifelessspiv: like 'august' ?12:43
lifelessspiv: ?12:43
spivlifeless: That seems a reasonable estimate.  Ask me again next meeting for a firmer answer.12:43
lifelessok. for the next meeting, have an answer :)12:43
lifelessprivate branches:12:44
ddaaACTION: spiv to give delivery estimate for branch browser12:44
lifelessstill in spec form. I have feedback to give. Steve has updated the spec.12:44
lifelessto be clearer - a terminology change12:44
lifelesssvn-symlinks.12:44
lifelessddaa: is that rolled out ?12:44
ddaalifeless: jamesh has rolled out12:44
ddaahu12:44
ddaahas committed12:44
ddaaI rolled out12:44
ddaaIt rocks12:44
lifelesscool12:44
lifelessdyson:12:44
lifelessjamesh has got it working from behind the proxy12:45
jameshstub reported a new bug12:45
lifelessstub has yet to trial it again on staging. expecting that soon12:45
lifelessahha!12:45
jameshhttps://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/5369812:45
lifelessI did not notice that12:45
jameshit failed when scanning a GRASS cvs snapshot tarball12:45
jameshbecause the version number component of the tarball did not match the DB constrainyt12:45
lifeless6.1.cvs_src_snapshot_2006_07_15  being the string12:46
ddaa"dyson blows on grass"12:46
jameshI guess valid_version() is looking for valid debian version numbers12:46
jameshwhich wouldn't like the underscores12:46
lifelessjamesh: can you please talk this over with Mark ? 12:46
jameshokay12:46
lifelessjamesh: its in the product registry area which I know he cares about12:46
lifelessI think representing what upstream does in ProductSeriesRelease is important, my vote is to loosen the constraint for this table.12:47
lifelesshosted branches:12:47
lifelessAbout 9% of hosted branches are empty directories -- are people finding SFTP service too hard to use? (spiv)12:47
lifelessspiv: ?12:47
lifelessddaa: can you prep a critical bugs list please.12:48
ddaaOne of the problem with the sftp service is that once a branch has been created, if you did not create a proper branch the first time, for some reason, then you are screwed12:48
lifelessddaa: as i dont have one ready12:48
mpoolright12:48
spivI got stub to add some stats about branches to cricket.12:48
mpoolcan i suggest we discuss this (empty branches, lp use, etc) on the lp list please?12:48
lifelessyes.12:48
lifelessI think 10% is uncomfortable, and discussion is needed.12:49
spivSure, I can move this to the list.12:49
lifelessany other meeting items ?12:49
lifeless512:49
lifeless412:49
lifeless312:49
lifeless212:49
lifeless112:49
lifelessok12:49
lifelesscritical bugs:12:49
lifelessddaa: do you have a list handy ?12:49
ddaadoing12:49
lifelesswe will come back12:49
lifelesspending sysadmin tasks?12:50
ddaacritical bugs:12:50
ddaa31308: cannot set branch associated to productseries: lifeless to spec12:50
ddaa37897: renaming breaks vcs-imports: david to do something about it12:50
ddaabasically, no progress on that12:50
lifelessok, no change on those.12:50
lifelesspending sysadmin tasks.. anyone got stuff to nag about ?12:50
ddaaand 5113012:50
lifeless512:50
lifeless412:50
lifeless312:50
lifeless212:50
lifeless112:50
lifelessok12:50
lifelessany other business? or meeting over time12:51
lifeless512:51
lifeless412:51
lifeless312:51
lifeless212:51
lifeless112:51
lifelessmeeting over, thanks12:51
lifelesssee some of you in 9 minutes for the review meeting12:51
lifelessmpool: can you do me a favour  ?12:51
lifelessmpool: collate the irc log into a minutes for the meeting?12:52
lifelessI need to prep my meeting12:52
mpoolsure12:52
lifelessthanks12:52
=== ddaa goes out from a cig and some coffee
ddaas/from/for/12:52
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jelmersorry, hope I'm not too late01:41
=== ddaa wakes up
ddaasorry was meditating about bugs, branches and revisions01:43
jelmer(-:01:43
ddaajelmer: sabdfl wants us to reconcile your work and importd01:43
ddaahe said, essentially "I sponsored jelmer work for the ability to commit to subversion, but I want it to work with our existing import system"01:44
jelmerddaa: Reconcile how exactly?01:45
ddaaso that importd can do something useful with the metadata bzr commit puts into svn01:45
jelmermaking existing imports compatible with bzr-svn or simply integrating bzr-svn into importd?01:45
jelmerAh, right01:45
jelmerhttp://samba.org/~jelmer/bzr/mapping.txt contains a short write-up of the metadata used by bzr-svn01:46
ddaaso, id-wise, importd and your plugin have two different approaches: random and deterministic01:46
ddaathere are advantages to both01:47
jelmeryes, do those have to be reconciled as well?01:47
ddaaI do not think it is reasonably feasible01:47
ddaaI think what would make sabdfl happy would be the possibility to use your work to:01:48
jelmerI don't have a lot of time at the moment, have to go in 5 minutes - any chance we can arrange a meeting later this week?01:48
ddaaget a bzr branch produced by importd, makes some new changes there, commit to svn, and have importd get the information from there01:48
ddaaso I'm happy to have two branch universes, the one based on cscvs imports, and the one based on your import system01:49
ddaabut both should be able to roundtrip with svn01:49
ddaajelmer: please think about it01:49
ddaajelmer: when would a meeting suit you?01:49
jelmerddaa: Sure, I will. There's a couple of issues we'll ahve to deal with01:50
ddaalet's arrange meeting first01:50
ddaasabdfl focus is no importd data, your deterministic import stuff is nice, but it's not the essential stuff as far as he is concerned01:50
ddaa"is _on_ importd data"01:51
jelmerddaa: Thursday and friday, preferably01:51
ddaaASAP, we are in a sprint with SteveA, jamesh and sabdfl in voice range01:51
jelmerI'll be away on tuesday and wednesday01:51
ddaaThursday, what time?01:51
jelmeroh, ok - please say hi to them :-)01:51
ddaanot between 1200 and 1300 UTC, that's all01:51
jelmerAfter 1300 UTC.. I'm arriving at the airport early morning, not sure when I'll be home exactly.01:52
ddaa(that's the time of the weekly launchpad mass^Wmeeting)01:52
jelmer(-:01:52
ddaaI'd like a firm hour so we can schedule effectively01:53
ddaasay, 15 UTC?01:53
jelmerddaa: Feel free to pick one, it's all fine by me. 01:53
jelmerYeah, 15 UTC sounds fine. 01:53
ddaadeal01:53
jelmerGreat. 01:53
jelmerI've got to run. See you on thursday!01:53
ddaasee you01:54
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SteveAmpool: ping?04:07
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