=== ThunderStruck [n=ThunderS@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ral_hn [n=raul@205.211.199.184] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === j_ack [n=rudi@p508DBB45.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === nictuku [n=yves@ubuntu/member/nictuku] has joined #ubuntu-devel === yannis [n=yannis@mit77-1-82-232-239-47.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Qwell [n=north@unaffiliated/qwell] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] === yannis [n=yannis@mit77-1-82-232-239-47.fbx.proxad.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Parti"] === njs [n=njs@66.159.194.130] has joined #ubuntu-devel === TomB [n=ownt@AC9FC529.ipt.aol.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:48] damn... does someone know how to workaround a bzr bug with unicode chars in the name? :( === NiteWolf [n=jpprice@host-6-69-220-24.midco.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:54] slomo: whats the bug [12:55] slomo: also, #bzr is MUCH more likely to have an answer. === NiteWolf [n=jpprice@host-6-69-220-24.midco.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Konversation] === karim18 [n=karim@c-67-162-3-59.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mat [n=mat@igoan/mat] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mat [n=mat@igoan/mat] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:11] hey guys, how are you all doing today? [01:12] Hello karim18 [01:12] karim18: Do you really want to know? :) [01:12] do you guys know where I can get GOOD technical documentation on Ubuntu? [01:12] infinity: Sure, why not :P === infinity is grumpy about waking up at 6am on a Monday morning -- Not a good start to the week. [01:13] in Asia infinity? [01:13] karim18: 'on ubuntu' ? [01:13] karim18: Australia. [01:13] yeah, i.e. Docs on Development, etc.. [01:13] infinity: is this not something you do every week day? [01:13] Well good morning then infinity :-) [01:13] tritium: I tend to roll out of bed at 9 or 10 most days. :) [01:13] Mornin infinity, well then, I'm drinking at 6 am in mornin australia time [01:14] infinity: wow! I envy you :) [01:14] tritium: Combine that with the fact that I didn't get to sleep until about 3am, do the math, and you can understand the grump. [01:14] karim18: It's 9am, now. === tritium understands [01:14] lol, ok, So I'm sipping some red wine at 9 am australia time [01:14] tritium: Don't envy too much. I may roll out of bed at 10, but then I work until 2am. [01:14] ;) [01:14] infinity: fair enough :) [01:15] Hmm, third time in a row, no response from infinity, maybe I'm on ignore.. [01:15] bddebian: Hrm? No, not intentionally at any rate. [01:15] bddebian: Also, hi. [01:15] :-) [01:16] hi bddebian [01:16] Heya tritium [01:17] karim18: help.ubuntu.com has a Packaging Guide and wiki.ubuntu.com also has a fair amount of development related documentation [01:18] LaserJock: Thanks ;) [01:19] karim18: also http://www.debian.org/devel/ [01:19] handy for policies, etc. [01:19] yes that is also very good, especially the Debian Policy [01:20] tritum: thanks man ;) [01:20] I appreciate the help guys :) [01:21] :) [01:31] tritium: may i pm you? [01:31] jadaz87: okay === lifeless [n=robertc@ppp245-86.static.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === TheMuso [n=luke@ubuntu/member/themuso] has joined #ubuntu-devel === TomB| [n=ownthebo@AC9FC529.ipt.aol.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === TomB [n=ownt@AC9FC529.ipt.aol.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === TheMuso [n=luke@ubuntu/member/themuso] has joined #ubuntu-devel === felix^ [n=nnamen@ip68-226-88-125.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Amaranth [n=amaranth@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-devel === RadiantFire [n=ryan@c-69-180-43-27.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying|away [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Fujitsu [n=fujitsu@203.23.49.35] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sevrin [n=sevrin@202.75.186.154] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lprofil [n=lprofil@port-212-202-193-169.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:03] good evening [03:04] i have a small prob with compiling cinelerra from cvs-sources [03:04] please ask in #ubuntu [03:05] ok [03:05] actually there is a dependecy prob with the libaries i try to install [03:06] i think this is developer related [03:06] isn't it ? [03:06] not particularly [03:06] if it's a bug it should probably be filed on Launchpad [03:07] i filed it allready [03:07] ok [03:07] i have trouble to install "libfaac-dev:" [03:07] "libfaac-dev" [03:07] can you merge it into your dapper system ? [03:07] please, this is not Ubuntu-centric. I'm happy to help in either #ubuntu or #ubuntu-motu. [03:07] via apt-get ... [03:08] ok [03:08] i'll try there [03:09] anyway, thank you for beeing kind if i might have annoyed you [03:09] bye === lprofil [n=lprofil@port-212-202-193-169.dynamic.qsc.de] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] === asac_ [n=asac@debian/developer/asac] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ctd [i=ctd@incubus.progsoc.uts.edu.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === asac_ is now known as asac === robertj [n=robertj@66-188-77-153.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jadaz87 is now known as fluxbuntu === fluxbuntu is now known as jadaz87 === jadaz87 is now known as joejaxx === Amaranth [n=amaranth@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:18] morning [04:19] hi fabbione! you're on early! [04:21] Hobbsee: same reason as last week === truz_`24 [n=truz_`24@74.129.166.232] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:22] fabbione: hmmm okay, your wife, or something else? [04:23] heat [04:23] ahh... [04:24] yes, right, i remember now :P === lukaswayne9 [n=lukas@c-68-84-69-12.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === anoid` [n=kuze@adsl-220-236-183.bhm.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mdke_ [n=matt@unaffiliated/matt/x-000000001] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dfcarney [n=dfcarney@70.55.148.234] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:05] fabbione: Do you care if I hit afbinit merge? === incandenza [i=djm@silenceisdefeat.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:09] bddebian: is that the sparc fb fw loader? [05:12] 3D Framebuffer Firmware INitializer, but it FTBFSs anyway [05:15] go ahead and fix it if you know how [05:15] it might be because of l-k-h [05:16] why should be FTBFS? [05:16] i don't see any build log [05:16] (from edgy at least) === incandenza [i=djm@silenceisdefeat.org] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [05:17] fabbione: No, the Debian package FTBFSs [05:17] afbinit.c:272: warning: incompatible implicit declaration of built-in function 'exit' [05:17] as: unrecognized option `-Av9a' [05:17] make[1] : *** [afbinit] Error 1 [05:18] that's broken toolchain [05:18] or broken B-D [05:19] bddebian: if you don't have a sparc to test, don't bother. i can take it [05:19] OK, sorry, I was just trying to clean up the manual merges :-( [05:19] I wish I had a sparc [05:19] nothing to be sorry === nixternal_ [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-devel === fluxbuntu is now known as joejaxx === TomB| [n=ownthebo@AC9FC529.ipt.aol.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ajmitch [n=ajmitch@ubuntu/member/ajmitch] has joined #ubuntu-devel === robitaille [n=robitail@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-devel === njs [n=njs@66.159.194.130] has left #ubuntu-devel ["dei] === Xof [n=mas01cr@158.223.59.22] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jsgotangco [n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-devel === highvoltage [n=jono@196.1.57.88] has joined #ubuntu-devel === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:17] Good morning === highvolt1ge [n=jono@196.1.57.88] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:18] morning pitti [07:21] hi pitti === rraphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:23] Hobbsee: :) === freeflying|away [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel === basanta [n=basanta@202.79.37.177] has joined #ubuntu-devel === TheMuso [n=luke@ubuntu/member/themuso] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Gman [n=gman@nwkea-socks-1.sun.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Fujitsu [n=Fujitsu@c58-107-168-5.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:20] feh === freeflying [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:28] fabbione: hmmm? === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-devel === bmon [n=monnahan@21.Red-83-43-55.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === viviersf [n=cain@196.44.1.98] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lucas [n=lucas@ubuntu/member/lucas] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lukketto [n=lukketto@host44-154.pool8710.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lukketto [n=lukketto@host44-154.pool8710.interbusiness.it] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === Hobbsee_ [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dholbach [n=daniel@i577B17D2.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:59] good morning === mvo [n=egon@p54A6644E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:04] hey dholbach, moin mvo [09:04] good morning pitti, * [09:04] hey pitti === marilize [n=marilize@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:07] ogra: a new gnome-power-manager for you! === basanta [n=basanta@202.79.37.177] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Huahua [n=hua_@123.49.238.70] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Gloubiboulga [n=gauvain@ubuntu/member/gloubiboulga] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ivoks [n=ivoks@ubuntu/member/ivoks] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:36] moin ivoks === lloydinho [n=andreas@192.38.119.40] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:36] hi pitti [09:36] greettings from adria :) [09:39] hey ivoks [09:39] you're having a good time? :) === seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:40] hellas seb128! [09:40] hey dholbach [09:40] well, not this week, i'm babysitting my little sister [09:40] morning seb128 [09:40] still sleeping in front of IRC? :) [09:40] bonjour monsieur seb128 [09:40] sleeping? [09:40] hi ajmitch pitti [09:40] not really :) [09:40] dholbach: it takes your about 4 seconds to notice when I join [09:41] so my bet is that your spend your time in front of IRC waiting for me to join :p [09:41] i just waited for you :-p [09:42] what I was saying :p [09:42] seb128: irc client notifications? [09:43] Hobbsee: he's not using that [09:43] ha [09:43] Hobbsee: that's sort of "private joke", don't bother [09:43] *ah. right === Hobbsee actually takes her work stuff to work tonight. bye all1 [09:45] pitti: i see you have plans for cups web interface [09:45] ivoks: yep [09:46] pitti: how? [09:47] ivoks: I'll add a sgid shadow helper program 'check_user_password' (or so) to passwd or whereever [09:47] ivoks: and cups will use that instead of directly reading /etc/shadow [09:47] ivoks: this might be useful to other programs as well === phanatic [n=phanatic@ubuntu/member/phanatic] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:47] pitti: yes, Amaranth was asking about something similar for his proxy [09:47] pitti: i see... [09:48] pitti: that would solve other problems in cups too [09:48] ivoks: wait for the next edgy release, this will be a bug killer :) [09:48] :) [09:48] pitti: heh, i was just looking for a sane way of doing something like the cups web interface [09:48] ivoks: and 1.2.2 will go into dapper, too, unless it shows regressions [09:48] pitti: sorry, i'm on vacation, so i didn't do any work these days :/ [09:49] ivoks: heh, no need to excuse :) [09:49] pitti: well, i'll work on gtk interface [09:49] verify a login against the system account info and check to see if the user is either root or has sudo access [09:49] pitti: but i doubt there will be anything for edgy [09:49] would your stuff work for that? [09:50] ivoks: there will be *definitively* nothing to check if an user is a sudoer [09:50] <-- [09:50] Amaranth: 'groups | fgrep -w admin' must be a good enough approximation [09:50] so i should just check to see if they're in the admin group like you do in gnome-menus? [09:50] yeah [09:51] that's what i have written down in my "how to make this work" note === imbrandon_ [n=brandon@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.imbrandon] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sabdfl [n=mark@ubuntu/member/pdpc.silver.sabdfl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:03] bye all [10:03] ivoks: bye, enjoy your holiday === pvanhoof [n=pvanhoof@mailhost.newtec.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:03] thanks === el [n=konversa@u40-30.dsl.vianetworks.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:11] pitti: will a new main inclusion report for libgksu2 be required? it is in universe right now and blocks the build for the latest gksu [10:12] mvo: is that just a renamed source pacakge from libgksu? (since that already builds libgksu2-0) [10:12] pitti: yes, renamed+new features+api change [10:13] mvo: then I don't need a MIR [10:13] pitti: thanks, then I will ask kamion to promote libgksu2 to main === ompaul [n=ompaul@ubuntu/member/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Spads [n=crack@217.205.109.249] has joined #ubuntu-devel === viviersf [n=cain@196.44.1.98] has joined #ubuntu-devel === seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sabdfl [n=mark@ubuntu/member/pdpc.silver.sabdfl] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === viviersf [n=cain@196.44.1.98] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] [10:35] pitti: check_user_password> surely unix_chkpwd [10:35] Kamion: the latter only checks for the current user [10:35] pitti: or PAM, but I guess you don't want to go to that much effort [10:35] oh [10:35] Kamion: but we need to check the password of an arbitrary user [10:35] Kamion: and do that in a sane way, e. g. with a mandatory sleep(1) or so [10:36] perhaps it could be executable only by CUPS [10:36] Kamion: for now I think I'll just add that to cupsys itself, and make it executable only for cupsys [10:36] heh, right :) [10:36] I'd be concerned about the new ability for a user to just set a job going for monts [10:36] months [10:36] Kamion: if we notice that it will be useful for other daemons, we can still extend it [10:37] Kamion: cupsys:shadow 2744 should be okay for now === highvoltage [n=jono@196.1.57.88] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jamesh [n=james@82.109.136.100] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:39] Kamion: did you have the time to check jokosher? if so, I hope it was ok this time :) === Kamion introduces dholbach to the concept of a weekend :-P [10:39] I've only just "got in" === dholbach hugs Kamion [10:40] i know... you said "tell me, when you uploaded it again" and i didn't notice you vanishing on friday, that's why i asked -- take all the time you need :) [10:40] dholbach: do you also plan to update the gstreamer python bindings? iirc jokosher wants something from the 0.10.5 release [10:41] weekend ? they have those in FOSS ? /me ducks ( just kiddin guys ) [10:41] slomo: it wants the new gnonlin and new gstreamer - i didn't look at pygst yet [10:41] dholbach: ok, if you look at it merge with debian... they have a different source package name than we have (but fortunately the same binary package names) [10:42] grrrrr :( [10:42] seb128: did you know about pygst having a different source package name in debian and all? [10:43] any reason to keep it different? [10:43] dholbach: nop [10:43] we packaged it first [10:43] seb128: nope... it only happened because we pacakged it first [10:43] and the maintainer didn't care looking at what we did :p [10:43] i already requested a sync and removal of our old one but if daniel wants to update to 0.10.5 the sync could just be skipped ;) === Arbiter [n=arbiter@adsl-ull-20-186.41-151.net24.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:44] i didn't intend to do the update (i didn't even know it had an update) [10:47] imbrandon_: it's a bit different if you're employed to work on it ... [10:48] happy to do the sync/removal shortly [10:48] (gst) [10:50] Kamion: thanks :) regarding the removal requests of the several, old binary packages... mplayer is another case where and older version is superseded but not removed although newer ones were removed correctly [10:51] slomo: we have a report listing all of those automatically - no need to tell us about them unless they're urgent for some other reason [10:51] (which it sounds like the python2.4-* ones are, so thanks, but it doesn't sound like mplayer is) === carlos [n=carlos@82.109.136.100] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:53] Kamion: ok... i guess i misinterpreted your comment to the bug yesterday then :) i thought you meant it was confusing because it should've already been removed because newer "old" version were already === doko_ [n=doko@dslb-088-073-088-037.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:56] Kamion, could you please reject the colorscheme package in the NEW queue (maybe you already read the logs, but we never know)? [10:56] slomo: no, I meant your bug was confusing because you were talking about removing old sources whereas what's actually needed is for the NBS binaries to be removed (and then the old source versions will be automatically garbage-collected) === mdz [n=mdz@217.205.109.249] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:57] moin mdz [10:58] Gloubiboulga: would be done except that Launchpad hates me [10:58] (i.e. bug) [10:58] Kamion, ok :) [10:59] bug 53871 [10:59] Malone bug 53871 in soyuz "can't reject source package from NEW" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed] http://launchpad.net/bugs/53871 [10:59] o.O === basanta [n=basanta@202.79.37.177] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:02] pitti: morning === spacey [n=herman@ubuntu/member/spacey] has joined #ubuntu-devel === HiddenWolf [n=HiddenWo@136.149.dynamic.phpg.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Keybuk [n=scott@quest.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:32] morning Keybuk [11:32] TheMuso: lsr needs to be fixed to follow the new python policy [11:32] morning [11:32] TheMuso: see http://people.debian.org/~piman/python-policy/ and http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy === shenki [n=shenki@ppp153-94.lns3.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:33] Kamion: Ok thanks for the heads up. [11:47] Znarl: around? [11:48] mdke : Hi. === lbm [n=lbm@0x50a1ee0c.unknown.tele.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:04] infinity, Keybuk: please give-back service-discovery-applet. builds fine now :) [12:09] dholbach, seb128, is it allowed for gnome people to rewrite half of the code during a freeze ? g-p-m changed majorly ... [12:10] ogra: what freeze? [12:10] ogra: ABI, API, UI and feature freezes start after 2.15.90 [12:11] ah, k [12:11] so i dont have to expect that i have to rewrite all patches after this time ? [12:11] correct [12:11] ok [12:11] ogra: you don't want to set upstreams rules :) [12:12] dholbach, i want to know what they mean :) [12:12] i dont want to set them ... [12:12] i thought i had seen the announcement for the freezy on friday already ... but the release schedule proves me wrong :) [12:12] announcement yep [12:12] tarball are due on monday [12:13] yup [12:13] and the freeze take effect from that [12:13] after, not before 2.15.90 [12:13] got it now ... i'm so spoiled with our announcement policy to send them afterwards :) === lfittl [n=lfittl@85-125-227-78.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:13] that's like "if you have changes you want to ship do them before rolling your tarball because freeze is coming" [12:13] (or at the day it takes effect) [12:13] k [12:14] yup, i understand ... === olemke [n=olemke@iup.physik.uni-bremen.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === geser [n=michael@85.25.105.248] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:28] Keybuk, Kamion, can either of you un-NEW wilowng please ? [12:28] *willowng === ompaul [n=ompaul@ubuntu/member/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:36] ogra: rejecting, it's using DEB_AUTO_UPDATE_DEBIAN_CONTROL; see http://ftp-master.debian.org/REJECT-FAQ.html [12:36] it also doesn't appear to be following the new python policy [12:36] oki, i'll tell Amaranth === jinty [n=jinty@213-156-52-99.fastres.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:37] Kamion, thanks [12:37] I'll mail hiim [12:37] him [12:38] thanks again :) [12:39] does anybody know if the Teardown spec will also support file-rc? or is sysv-rc the only supported package? === rodarvus [n=rodarvus@ubuntu/member/rodarvus] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Zdra [n=zdra@di-pc67.ulb.ac.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:52] geser: file-rc has never been supported on Ubuntu [12:53] it is in universe and it could be installed till now [12:53] in universe => not supported [12:53] it's your machine, and obviously you can install anything you like on it; but if it breaks, you need to support it yourself [12:54] it's clear === HiddenWolf [i=HiddenWo@136.111.dynamic.phpg.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:54] but now file-rc isn't installable anymore as some packages depend on sysv-rc and file-rc and sysv-rc conflict [12:54] right, that's not surprising [12:55] so I have to switch back to sysv-rc? [12:55] you could also patch file-rc to support the changes to update-rc.d [12:55] though if you're going to give it love, you should almost certainly also patch it to support things like usplash === matthewrevell [i=synchron@silenceisdefeat.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel === matthewrevell [i=synchron@silenceisdefeat.org] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [12:56] packages could then Depend: sysv-rc (>= 2.86.ds1-14ubuntu2) | file-rc (>= 0.8.10ubuntu1) [12:57] I will see if I can produce a patch for file-rc for the recent changes in update-rc.d === imbrandon [n=brandon@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.imbrandon] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:58] Keybuk: I noticed your latest upload of n-m failed to build, so I've gone ahead and pulled it up to 0.6.4 along with fixing the patch so it applies. === highvoltage [n=jono@196.1.57.88] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:01] StevenK: no, please don't === Keybuk explains "Upstream Version Freeze" [01:02] 0.6.4 is a bugfix release, and I suspect the patch I had to fix will apply to 0.6.3 anyway. [01:02] if it's a bug fix release, provide the changelog and diff to the release team [01:02] Aye === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@azevedo.astro.up.pt] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:17] on the subject of networkmanager, I would like to see the vpn plugins make it into edgy (they're a part of n-m, but not the main tarball, and hence weren't in dapper) [01:17] I had no idea about how to go about it, so I wrote https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CompleteNetworkManager - any hits/tips/go-aways? [01:18] shenki: all suitable for universe [01:19] its already on revu since some time iirc [01:19] Keybuk: yep, that's what I thought. who would be a good person to talk to about it? I've brought it up in -motu a few times, but no one was around who could give me the right kind of advice [01:20] what do you need to talk about? === jono [n=jono@88-107-14-75.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:21] hey [01:21] hey jono [01:21] looks like the package was never finished and has only one advocate yet [01:21] hey Keybuk :) [01:22] Keybuk: doing whatever needs to be done to make sure it gets in edgy [01:22] shenki: do it then ;) [01:22] shenki, http://tiber.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2283 [01:22] heh [01:22] that's the plan [01:22] lacking a little on the knowhow at this point though [01:22] best to talk to tonio i guess [01:23] okay. thanks [01:24] had no idea about how/what/where revu was before a few minutes ago [01:24] so cheers for the pointers [01:30] shenki: I'm going to work on networkmanager, too. [01:31] shenki: I hope to fix it enough to even make Keybuk happy. :-) [01:31] shawarma: what aspect of it? did you read the wiki page I wrote? [01:31] heh, what will that take? [01:31] shenki: Yes. [01:31] shenki: voodoo. [01:31] intresting [01:31] shawarma: in what kind of direction, ooi? [01:32] shenki: Well, mostly it has to do with the way it handles DNS. [01:32] my thoughts have been to make network-manager conflict with ifupdown entirely, so once you install it, it forces you to rely on it [01:32] shawarma: well, let me know if you want any help or testing. also, Fujitsu mentioned to me he's going to package pam_keyring [01:32] shenki: Right now, it doesn't, but I'd like it to. [01:32] which takes away a lot of the interaction bugs [01:33] Keybuk, that's probably a good idea. [01:33] Keybuk: you'd really need to wait until 0.7 to do that, because what you're suggesting would make the system unable to be online without logging into your desktop [01:33] Keybuk: IIRC your main concern was how to deal with network manager changing resolv.conf, but applications not knowing about it.. The NM guys "fix" this by depending on bind, which sucks. [01:34] Keybuk: What if we made it depend on one of the DNS proxies already in main. One of the tiny ones, of course. === Mithrandir thinks NM shouldn't touch resolv.conf directly. [01:34] shenki: the pam_keyring thing is totally separated. [01:35] Mithrandir: well.. It'd make sense for the networkamanger daemon to set it to point at 127.0.0.1 at boot and then never touch it again. [01:35] shawarma: seperated from networkmanager? yeah, i realise that. but it's essential for making network manager user friendly, unless 0.7 makes it into edgy (haha) [01:35] shawarma: why do you think so? [01:35] shenki: i suppose. I've never found that particular part very annoying. :-) === freeflying [n=freeflyi@ubuntu/member/freeflying] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:36] shawarma: do you have to type your password into that bloody login box every time you turn on your laptop? [01:36] shawarma: then n-m would end up in universe [01:36] Mithrandir: Well, that way there can be a dns proxy (whose settings can be altered at any point in time by nm), and we won't need to notify any apps of any change. [01:36] why do you need to notify apps of the change to resolv.conf? [01:37] shawarma: we don't need to notify apps anyway. [01:37] we patch libc so that apps reload resolv.conf if it changes mtime [01:37] Keybuk: Because some apps don't use libc for doing dns lookups and not all of them are clever enough to notice when something changes in resolv.conf [01:37] shawarma: *shrug* [01:37] shawarma: then they should be patched. *shrug*. [01:37] Keybuk: firefox springs to mind.. [01:37] Mithrandir++ [01:38] shawarma: firefox handles resolv.conf changing just fine. [01:38] we're not putting any kind of DNS daemon in ubuntu-desktop [01:38] Mithrandir: ok. [01:38] it'd conflict with people running their own DNS server of choice [01:38] Mithrandir: But it's one of those apps that doesn't use libc for it. [01:38] Keybuk: Sure. But those people are probably not the people using networkmanager. [01:38] oh, BLOODY HELL, dash as /bin/sh breaks debconf escaping === Kamion dives down yet another rabbit hole === dsas [n=dean@host86-129-18-243.range86-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:39] shawarma: but that'd prevent anyone from using n-m [01:39] Kamion: eww, I assumed at least that debconf was bashism free [01:39] uses echo [01:39] Keybuk: Huh? What would? [01:39] shawarma: can you come up with an app that breaks? [01:39] Mithrandir: I can make on in a few minutes. :-D [01:40] shawarma: depending on a DNS daemon prevents people from installing their own DNS daemon without uninstalling n-m [01:40] shawarma: thus if n-m was in ubuntu-desktop, people with an ubuntu desktop can't run a DNS daemon [01:40] we don't want that [01:40] Mithrandir: but fine, let's leave the dns proxy out then. Why would it not be alright for nm to edit resolv.conf? [01:40] so if n-m depends on a DNS daemon, n-m cannot be installed by default [01:40] Keybuk: ("echo 'foo\nbar'" behaves differently in bash and dash) [01:40] shawarma: dhclient edits resolv.conf already [01:41] Keybuk: Yes, you've mentioned. :-) However, other things might have valuable information that belongs in there. In particular the vpn plugins. [01:41] shawarma: those things can edit resolv.conf [01:41] shawarma: there's no more reason for it to edit resolv.conf than there is for it to edit /etc/passwd. [01:41] tbh, my ideal n-m situation would be: [01:41] - conflicts with ifupdown [01:41] Keybuk: If THEY can why can't nm? [01:42] shawarma: why does nm need to? [01:42] because you often use different DNS settings when you're on VPN. [01:42] shawarma: right, I just said the vpn plugins could cause resolv.conf to change ... [01:42] We need a resolve.conf.d :P [01:42] eek [01:42] If each vpn plugins implements it's own, that's (currently) three extra places things can go wrong as opposed to one if we let nm do it. [01:43] Fujitsu: tbh, we need resolv.conf to be a symlink to /var/run/resolv.conf or something [01:43] to stop people thinking that they can edit it and have their chnages saved [01:43] Keybuk: If n-m conflicts with ifupdown, what do you do about people who use n-m to run the ifupdown hooks? [01:43] shawarma: I don't care where the function itself goes [01:43] Keybuk, yeah, that's a bit of a danger. [01:43] StevenK: n-m runs them itself using run-parts === Fjodor [n=sune@0x55510b65.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:44] /usr/share/NetworkManager/dispatcher.d/01ifupdown [01:44] Oh, duh, so it does. [01:44] Keybuk: So the function can be in nm, but the vpn plugins should call it? That's the way it works if we let nm change resolv.conf. [01:44] shawarma: indeed [01:44] Keybuk: but.. ? [01:44] but nothing [01:44] shawarma: apart from the fact that the backends will have to be able to edit resolv.conf _anyway_ if they're to function without NM? [01:45] Mithrandir: The backends? the VPN plugins? [01:45] shawarma: the VPN plugins probably talk to openvpn or similar, right? [01:45] Mithrandir: Well... Yes. === MatthewV [n=MatthewV@CPE-60-231-243-6.wa.bigpond.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:46] shawarma: and openvpn (or whatever) will have to be able to edit resolv.conf whether you use NM or not, right? [01:46] and openvpn/pppd/etc. usually write resolv.conf themselves anyway [01:46] Keybuk: But nothing? Then why have we set it to NOT allow it to edit it? [01:46] shawarma: because then it does something very stupid [01:46] dhclient writes resolv.conf from the DHCP response [01:46] n-m parses dhclient's log, and overwrites resolv.conf again [01:46] which is just wrong [01:46] n-m doesn't need to do anything! === MatthewV [n=MatthewV@CPE-60-231-243-6.wa.bigpond.net.au] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] [01:47] likewise for things like openvpn and ppp, they write resolv.conf themselves *anyway* [01:47] n-m shouldn't get involved [01:47] Keybuk: NM also changes my domain search path, which is wrong. [01:47] Keybuk: Right, in the case of dhclient. [01:47] shawarma: it's true in the case of almost everything n-m uses [01:47] Mithrandir: right, it rewrites it wrong [01:47] Keybuk: vpnc for instance only alters resolv.conf if resolvconf is installed (the package). [01:48] shawarma: that sounds like a bug in vpnc [01:48] it should write resolv.conf anyway [01:48] Keybuk: yes and no. There's no way for me to tell it to keep away from changing that part of the file. It's trivial to get dhclient to behave correctly. === zul [n=chuck@ubuntu/member/zul] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:48] hi === mat|work [n=mat@igoan/mat] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:48] Mithrandir: to be fair, if you're using n-m, you shouldn't care what's in that file [01:48] which is why I want n-m to cause the removal of anything you had to care about [01:48] Mithrandir: Will that be any better if we let the different vpn backends change resolv.conf? [01:48] Riddell: does Kubuntu use libnotify? [01:49] Riddell: (and notification-daemon) [01:49] pitti: nope [01:49] Keybuk: it's Debian #306134, if you're keeping bashism score [01:49] Debian bug 306134 in debconf "Subject: /usr/share/debconf/confmodule usage of echo to communicate with debconf breaks values containing \\" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/306134 [01:50] Keybuk: domain search path is a completely legal thing for the user to change, IMNSHO. [01:50] Riddell: I will start our mini-frontend for crash reports soon and pondered about a simple inotify -> libnotify app (just to display that there's a new report, asking to file a bug) [01:50] Riddell: so we'll need a -gtk and a -kde version [01:50] I like "ssh aine" and "http://aine" to go to the right box no matter what network I'm on. [01:50] Mithrandir: What if network-manager had a configuration option to let you prepend certain things to your domain search path? [01:51] shawarma: I don't want to prepend. I want to keep my search path in a particular way. [01:51] don't get me wrong here guys. I'm not a nm fan boy. :-) I just think nm does exactly what most of our potential users want it to and I want to give it to them. If that steps on someone else's toes, I'll try to fix it as best I can. I just need to know. [01:52] Mithrandir: Ok.. so if you could do that, would you be a happy man? === marcin_ant [n=marcin@194.114.146.122] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:52] shawarma: mostly, yeah. [01:54] So.. I agree that the different vpn backends probably know how to fix resolv.conf themselves, but in order to ensure a consistent handling of it (e.g. keeping the right search path) it's a helluva lot easier if only ONE thing changes it (e.g. network manager). [01:54] pitti: gnome-cups-manager needs to depend on gksudo [01:55] Riddell: oh, good point; Recommends: at least [01:56] pitti: I'd say depends, it's quite disconcerting clicking a menu item and nothing happening unless you look at stdout === ctd [i=ctd@incubus.progsoc.uts.edu.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:58] Riddell: true [01:58] Riddell: ok, I wanted to apply an old patch anyway, good opportunity to fix this as well === epx [n=Elvis@200.249.192.132] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ompaul [n=ompaul@ubuntu/member/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:59] pitti: are you going to add an Enable Sharing option? [01:59] Riddell: exactly that [02:07] going into vmware for a bit to test migration and resume-by-uuid [02:08] slomo: Done. === jjesse [n=jjesse@64.186.55.234] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:09]