[12:41] <Who_> hi all
[12:41] <Who_> can someone help me with some drawing in Inkscape
[12:42] <Who_> I am trying to draw some liquid...
[02:23] <Who_> anyone know how to use the 'mask' feature in inkscape?
[02:24] <Who_> I want to use it like Gimp's mask
[03:03] <troy_s> who_
[03:03] <Who_> hi troy_s:
[03:03] <troy_s> you need to learn layers bor
[03:03] <troy_s> bro
[03:03] <troy_s> that was a brutal svg :)
[03:04] <troy_s> and what mask feature are you trying to use?
[03:04] <Who_> I got the mask feature ok (in Inkscape)
[03:05] <Who_> ...tell me more about layers - as I was doing it I kept thinking 'I wonder if layers would mean I could select things more easily'
[03:05] <Who_> or 'I guess this background stuff should all be on one layer' :P
[03:05] <Who_> but it didn't seem to happen :P
[03:06] <Who_> I have been thinking for phrases relating to Blubuntu - I think technical, clean, scientific are some early indicators
[03:06] <troy_s> are you providing some sort of output for the request?
[03:07] <Who_> Well, I was going to use the human buttons in website colours....
[03:07] <Who_> not tonight though, I have been Blubuntuing tonight and now it is very close to bed time
[03:08] <troy_s> eek
[03:08] <troy_s> it would be nice to demonstrate some of our professionalism by providing at least a potential starting point in svg
[03:09] <Who_> oh, yea, I was going to use svg - just the style from the human theme
[03:10] <Who_> I have been working on the hardest SVG I've ever done tonight
[03:27] <troy_s> eeke
[03:27] <troy_s> doesn't sound too proposaly there Who_...
[03:28] <Who_> it is for Blubuntu - I need to know if I could do a paticular effect
[03:28] <Who_> troy_s: I sort of can :)
[03:29] <Who_> troy_s; and I am a bit 'proposaled out' since the lsplashes
[03:29] <Who_> (don't worry, I will certainly do much more proposing - I just need a quick break :P)
[03:31] <troy_s> LOL
[03:44] <Who_> troy_s: using masks you can make some _funky_ gradients in inkscape
[03:44] <Who_> it has come along so much recently
[03:45] <Who_> suspiciously close to Xara's release
[03:45] <Who_> hi Viper
[03:45] <Viper550> Hello...
[03:45] <Viper550> I'm trying to take Tropic in a new direction...away from the Green scheme and off to a pure Orange look
[03:46] <troy_s> Lord.
[03:46] <troy_s> Viper... think.
[03:46] <troy_s> Take a week.  Think about it.
[03:47] <troy_s> Hrm.. version .44 Who_ ?
[03:47] <Who_> troy_s: yea
[03:47] <Viper550> I made that decision way before I said that...
[03:47] <troy_s> what is the font that looks like the ubuntu
[03:47] <Viper550> ubuntu-title-font
[03:47] <troy_s> font but plus the tails.
[03:47] <Who_> ubuntu title
[03:47] <Viper550> Well, I was close, ubuntu-title
[03:49] <Who_> troy_s: try applying a linera gradient mask to a radial gradient
[03:49] <Who_> it is very funky
[03:51] <Who_> what are you playing with, troy_s
[03:53] <troy_s> hrm...
[03:53] <troy_s> i am trying to pound out exactly three VERY loose button variants.
[03:53] <troy_s> then i am going to post an activism post to the damn list
[03:54] <troy_s> because having the documentation team ask for help
[03:54] <troy_s> and have zero replies is just plain
[03:54] <troy_s> shoddy
[03:54] <troy_s> how do i make an inverse mask who?
[03:55] <Who_> what do you mean by inverse?
[03:56] <Who_> do you want me to do some buttons quickly
[03:56] <Who_> ?
[03:56] <troy_s> i would love it if you could...
[03:56] <Who_> a mask that inverts things?
[03:56] <troy_s> you and i can stick on three each
[03:56] <troy_s> VERY loose
[03:56] <Who_> we'll call them 3 AM buttons :P
[03:56] <troy_s> and simply state that they are very loose and pick a direction and we will finish em
[03:56] <troy_s> VERY loose :)
[03:56] <troy_s> i just got off work
[03:56] <troy_s> bloody hell.
[03:57] <troy_s> inverse
[03:57] <Who_> okay, what do yours look like?
[03:57] <troy_s> meaning imagine i have a rounded rectangle
[03:57] <troy_s> mine are rounded rectangle
[03:57] <troy_s> basically
[03:57] <troy_s> with a gloss hit on top
[03:57] <troy_s> and maybe a who hill stripe
[03:57] <troy_s> with a grad.
[03:57] <Who_> okay, that's what mine werer going to be like :P - just like the Human buttons
[03:57] <troy_s> like i said, damn loose...
[03:57] <troy_s> but then i will try to give three simple directions
[03:57] <troy_s> yeah
[03:57] <troy_s> something like that...
[03:57] <troy_s> try it
[03:58] <Who_> okay, well, I'll try some other things quickly
[03:59] <Who_> I'm going to adapt my lozenge
[03:59] <Viper550> Guess what, I've got a screenshot of the next build of Tropic on the wiki page now.
[04:01] <Who_> link?
[04:01] <Viper550> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Tropic
[04:02] <Viper550> I assumed for a moment that you already knew...but, just in case you forgot
[04:02] <Who_> Viper550, have you thought about some of the other elements of your theme - remember Mark made it clear that completeness would me a major factor when it came to decifing what would be included
[04:02] <Viper550> Yes, I have, I'm going to adapt one of my splash screen propositions for the splash screen, and I've got a pretty nice wallpaper ready for it too
[04:06] <troy_s> Who_, let me remind you on how to do a quick cutout later okie?
[04:10] <Who_> troy_s: hold on...you want me to remind you to show me a quick cutout...?
[04:18] <Who_> to whoever is listening, I'd love an opinion on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Blubuntu/BlubuntuWallpaper
[04:18] <Who_> the new mercury ones, specifically
[04:26] <troy_s> yah
[04:26] <troy_s> i'm here.
[04:26] <troy_s> who_s
[04:26] <troy_s> Who_,
[04:26] <Who_> yea, troy_s
[04:27] <troy_s> helmet's image is quite good.
[04:27] <troy_s> your mercury blobs need to evolve a little... the gloss is starting though
[04:27] <Who_> they took me ages
[04:27] <troy_s> first, you need to liquify the blobs -- not just circle them
[04:27] <Who_> I think helmets image is not likely to be a) available in larger sizes and b) free
[04:27] <troy_s> second, you might want to put a chrome kick across them
[04:28] <Who_> liquify?
[04:28] <troy_s> (as a starting point (helmets)
[04:28] <troy_s> uh... damn...
[04:28] <troy_s> WE REALLY NEED  A WHITEBOARD APP!!!
[04:28] <troy_s> is there an opensource whiteboard app????????????
[04:28] <Who_> they are SVGs at the moment
[04:28] <Who_> yea, true, we do!
[04:28] <troy_s> i know, but i can't sketch here.
[04:28] <troy_s> this blows.
[04:28] <Who_> there must be a free whiteboard...
[04:28] <troy_s> no kidding
[04:28] <Who_> can you deskcribe?
[04:31] <Who_> oh...you were suggesting I use Helmet's stuff to help me make the mercury blobs look more liquid....ye, great idea :) they are much easier to SVGise than some of the photos I got...
[04:31] <Who_> though, if all the pictures of mercury I found are correct, mercury does normally end up in round bubbles
[04:31] <troy_s> phew
[04:31] <troy_s> got one.
[04:31] <troy_s> no
[04:31] <troy_s> i was saying helmet
[04:31] <troy_s> was a good starting point for something possibly
[04:32] <Who_> oh, okay
[04:32] <troy_s> found a whiteboard
[04:32] <Who_> rendering that in SVG would make me cry
[04:32] <Who_> okie, link me
[04:33] <troy_s> http://hem.fyristorg.com/matben/
[04:33] <troy_s> looking into inkscapes... does it work?
[04:33] <Who_> inkscape's what?
[04:34] <troy_s> inkscape has a collaboration mode
[04:34] <troy_s> but i don't think it is finished
[04:34] <troy_s> downloading the sourceball.
[04:37] <troy_s> cvs checkout happening now
[04:42] <troy_s> this blows
[04:42] <troy_s> how do you get the inkscape whiteboard working???
[04:44] <troy_s> Who_,  you there?
[04:44] <Who_> troy_s: yea, here, but never used inkscape whiteboard....
[04:44] <Who_> perhpas just use something like
[04:45] <Who_> http://www.imaginationcubed.com/LaunchPage
[04:45] <troy_s> well inkscape has inkboard
[04:45] <troy_s> google for it...
[04:45] <troy_s> its a plugin
[04:45] <troy_s> and i am a 64bit dual core
[04:45] <troy_s> no flash
[04:46] <Who_> it is 4AM here now - I really need to go to bed
[04:46] <Who_> can we resume tomorrow
[04:47] <Who_> I will have to submit those buttons in the morning (I have 1 now, but it is oh, so simple
[04:48] <troy_s> yep
[04:48] <troy_s> laf.
[04:48] <troy_s> morrow... i'll look into inkboard
[05:09] <Who_> just sent some buttons
[05:10] <Who_> night
[11:59] <mhb> hi everyone
[03:59] <Viper550> Hello everyone
[04:00] <kwwii> howdy Viper550
[04:01] <Viper550> I was tweaking Tropic just right now, wanna see?
[04:01] <Viper550> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Tropic
[04:30] <kwwii> looking better and better
[04:30] <kwwii> I'm off now...bbl
[09:26] <Viper550> Hello
[10:33] <newz2000> there's something anoying me about Ubuntu/Gnome compared to windows...
[10:33] <newz2000> its within the power of the art-team to affect it.
[10:33] <kwwii> re
[10:33] <newz2000> the amount of lost screen real estate lost on gnome/ubuntu compared to windows
[10:34] <newz2000> Should I make a spec or should I send a msg to the mailing list first?
[10:34] <kwwii> newz2000: screen real estate lost through what?
[10:34] <newz2000> slightly larger chrome and tool bars
[10:35] <kwwii> you mean window deco and tool bar size?
[10:35] <newz2000> yes. http://people.ubuntu.com/~mnuzum/tmp/window-chrome.png
[10:36] <kwwii> I think if you look at that pic closely you will see more than losing screen real estate
[10:36] <kwwii> they use theirs more efficiently
[10:36] <kwwii> the panel is much smaller and better spaced
[10:36] <kwwii> while the window corners (the dragable area) is much bigger
[10:37] <newz2000> they is Windows, right?
[10:38] <kwwii> yepp
[10:38] <kwwii> hehe, who "they" is for a kde user is kinda hard to decide, eh?
[10:38] <kwwii> :-)
[10:38] <newz2000> yes.
[10:38] <kwwii> lol
[10:38] <newz2000> Its been tricky to describe... I bought a new laptop when I came to canonical and lost my old one from my previous employer...
[10:39] <newz2000> I went down from 1920x1400 to 1280x800.
[10:39] <kwwii> if you did the same with kde I bet you would get even worse results
[10:39] <newz2000> So it was quite a change. But still, it feels cluttered and cramped.
[10:39] <newz2000> I've not used KDE for a while so can't comment much.
[10:39] <kwwii> believe me, gnome does better in this respect
[10:40] <kwwii> yeah, I moved from a bigger laptop when working for suse to a smaller one afterwards as well
[10:40] <newz2000> Oh, you worked for Suse?
[10:40] <kwwii> and it took me a while to get used to it, I kept changing the panel size/hiding, font size, etc.
[10:40] <kwwii> I did all the suse graphics for 7 years :-)
[10:41] <newz2000> That's cool. Why'd you leave?
[10:41] <kwwii> the decision not to support and develop kde anymore
[10:42] <newz2000> Ah. When Novel/Ximian took over.
[10:42] <newz2000> I hadn't heard that Suse officially abandoned KDE. I figured it would happen though.
[10:44] <kwwii> well, it is pretty much unofficial but it already happened
[10:44] <kwwii> the thing is this: lots of suse employees wok on it on the side anyway
[10:45] <newz2000> Do you still work for Suse?
[10:45] <kwwii> nope, although novell offered me a contract to make their website design I turned it down
[10:45] <newz2000> oh too bad. They need it.
[10:45] <kwwii> suse is dead for me
[10:45] <kwwii> hehe, I made the opensuse site, and I know exactly what kind of shit is involved in it
[10:46] <kwwii> better to stay out of that mess (although you can earn a lot of money)
[10:46] <kwwii> the whole team who makes their website is now an external company
[10:46] <kwwii> they fired them all
[10:46] <kwwii> and they made their own company
[10:46] <kwwii> and then novell paid even more to hire that company to do the work
[10:46] <newz2000> classic
[10:46] <newz2000> :D
[10:46] <kwwii> and the same thing almost happened to me, but I decided to take a step away
[10:47] <newz2000> Not to rub salt in the wound, Are there any other major desktops besides Kubuntu that ship with KDE as the default now?
[10:47] <kwwii> linspire and xandros are the two "big" ones that come to mind
[10:47] <kwwii> mandriva of course
[10:48] <kwwii> and lots of smaller ones
[10:48] <kwwii> that is the major difference between gnome and kde today, I think
[10:48] <kwwii> gnome is funded by a few really big companies
[10:48] <kwwii> and kde is funded by a lot of small companies
[10:48] <newz2000> Yeah
[10:48] <kwwii> kde sees that as a strength not a weakness
[10:48] <newz2000> I wish we could pick the best from both of them.
[10:49] <newz2000> I'd rather code for KDE and I think it has better eye candy, but I think gnome is more usable.
[10:49] <kwwii> in the end, to be really honest, what is good for one is often good for the other (at least in the long run)
[10:49] <newz2000> I just hate glib though.
[10:49] <kwwii> there really is only one linux desktop
[10:49] <kwwii> kde and gnome are part of both of them
[10:49] <kwwii> hehe, "are both part of it"
[10:50] <kwwii> let's talk about gnome and kde in 50 years and I bet we will all have a good lauch
[10:50] <kwwii> laugh
[10:50] <newz2000> yeah
[10:51] <newz2000> So is the proper protocol to create a spec first or to discuss issues on the ml first?
[10:51] <newz2000> (back to the chrome thing)
[10:54] <kwwii> hrm, good question
[10:54] <kwwii> perhaps make a bug
[10:54] <kwwii> and then a spec to improve on it
[10:54] <kwwii> or a wiki page describing the problem
[10:55] <kwwii> and a spec to iimprove it
[10:55] <newz2000> Ah. That's probably a good place to start
[10:55] <newz2000> That sounds like a good plan
[10:55] <kwwii> I guess the problem is really in the theme makers hands
[10:55] <kwwii> and perhaps a bit of developement
[10:55] <newz2000> I wasn't sure about who can fix it... since we're doing new themes I thought it would be good to suggest here.
[10:55] <kwwii> definitely
[10:56] <kwwii> things like the window borders are all up to the theme
[10:56] <kwwii> the panel size setting is up to a developer settings, etc, as is the font size, etc.
[10:57] <newz2000> Hmm... bummer. Thats where the most space is lost.
[10:57] <kwwii> yepp, in kde we have the opposite problem
[10:58] <kwwii> jonathan made the size so small per defualt that on some systems it cuts off the bottom of the icons in the panel :p
[10:59] <kwwii> he made the spacing 0 I think
[10:59] <newz2000> No margin for error there
[11:01] <kwwii> exactly
[11:01] <kwwii> honestly, I like the kubuntu panel much better than the default kde panel, but it could still be a bit better
[11:03] <newz2000> I've always felt like there was too much crammed into too little space on the kde panel.
[11:03] <newz2000> Admittedly its been awhile since I've used it
[11:20] <kwwii> the shitty arrows showing that an icon is a drawer in kde SUCK
[11:22] <newz2000> Well, you are the art-team lead for kubuntu
[11:24] <kwwii> hehe
[11:24] <kwwii> yeah, but that is something that is being addressed in kde4
[11:24] <mhb> kwwii: what icon exactly?
[11:24] <mhb> kwwii: name?
[11:24] <kwwii> mhb: not an icon, it is an overlay for a drawer
[11:24] <kwwii> check the kmenu or the System Menu
[11:25] <kwwii> those little arrows simply suck
[11:25] <kwwii> I would rather make the icon more rectangular to show that it is a drawer graphically
[11:25] <kwwii> anyone here know how to install java on ppc?
[11:26] <newz2000> Good luck with that
[11:26] <newz2000> did you try java.sun.com?
[11:27] <mhb> 1~
[11:27] <mhb> sorry
[11:28] <kwwii> newz2000: hehe, I wanted to simply install it and keep writing my script
[11:28] <kwwii> not work for an hour on figuring out how to install it
[11:29] <newz2000> If you have multiverse you can install java using apt I think.
[11:29] <kwwii> I have osx with all the stuff installed already...I'll write the script there and assume that those that run it have a working java installed
[11:29] <kwwii> newz2000: apparently not on ppc
[11:29] <kwwii> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[11:29] <kwwii>   sun-java5-jre: Depends: sun-java5-bin (= 1.5.0-06-1) but it is not installable                                               or
[11:29] <kwwii>                           ia32-sun-java5-bin (= 1.5.0-06-1) but it is not instal                                              lable
[11:29] <kwwii> E: Broken packages
[11:30] <kwwii> fscked up
[11:30] <newz2000> if they have it at java.sun.com you just download, chmod +x java...bin and then ./java...bin
[11:30] <newz2000> but I don't know if they have it there
[11:33] <kwwii> too late, I already started editing it on the other machine
[11:33] <kwwii> it is only a small change, so do not feel so bad
[11:33] <kwwii> :-)
[11:33] <kwwii> changing the render engine for the script
[11:33] <newz2000> My feelings aren't hurt. I rarely use java
[11:34] <newz2000> Well, I use eclipse a lot, but I rarely write java
[11:35] <kwwii> I am only calling a class in a bash script, don't worry
[11:35] <newz2000> xalan by chance?
[11:36] <newz2000> oops
[11:37] <newz2000> don't press ctrl+w
[11:49] <kwwii> batik, acutally
[11:49] <kwwii> actually
[11:49] <kwwii> it seems to work, so far
[11:49] <kwwii> it is nasty work on the console in osx
[11:50] <kwwii> unless you have a decent setup of course
[11:50] <kwwii> linux is so much better in that aspect
[11:54] <kwwii> hehe, so now the script calls every svg in a singular java session
[11:54] <kwwii> great
[11:54] <kwwii> erm
[11:54] <kwwii> this is getting beyond my interest level
[11:54] <kwwii> hehe
[11:56] <mhb> :o)
[11:56] <kwwii> dude, are you good at shell scripting?
[11:57] <kwwii> I could figure this out tomorrow, with time I guess, but tonight I am too worn out to worry
[11:58] <kwwii> I will simply let the script run as is and be happy for now
[11:58] <kwwii> check on the results, tweak the settings, etc
[11:58] <kwwii> and worry about cpu usage tomorrow
[11:59] <kwwii> erm, actually it is probably the disk hits that are worse than the cpu usage
[11:59] <kwwii> read/write stuff loading and unloading
[11:59] <mhb> :o))
[12:00] <kwwii> you like seeing an artist fsck up his own script, eh?
[12:00] <kwwii> :-)
[12:01] <mhb> yay!
[12:01] <kwwii> and to watch him dance around in chat like the next idiot on the street
[12:01] <kwwii> :p
[12:01] <mhb> it's better to let the anger come out of you :o)
[12:02] <kwwii> well, other than the fact that it takes 10x as long to make the theme as before, batik is working great
[12:02] <kwwii> might want to raise that to 100x