[10:49] <matthewrevell> Hey guys - is there a Fridge irc channel?
[10:53] <ormiret> haven't heard of one
[10:56] <matthewrevell> ormiret: cheers
[11:18] <mdke> matthewrevell: it's a world!!
[11:18] <mdke> what looks like the moustache is australia, surely
[11:19] <matthewrevell> mdke: Really? Oh!
[11:20] <matthewrevell> mdke: BTW - I wasn't the one that suggested it looked like Hitler :)
[11:21] <mdke> yes, I know. He's got a point though
[11:22] <matthewrevell> I don't actually remember what the emblem was before, but I think that globe possibly has too little contrast to be, well, emblematic at 16x16
[11:23] <bimberi> LOL - i won't be able to look at the icon in the same way again
[11:24] <bimberi> matthewrevell: it's from this - http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/ubuntu/54
[11:28] <MenZa> When did we get an art section o_O?
[11:28] <mdke> MenZa: about a year ago?
[11:28] <MenZa> wtf.
[11:29] <MenZa> And I haven't seen it?
[11:29] <MenZa> :\
[11:29] <mdke> you mean art.ubuntu.com?
[11:29] <matthewrevell> bimberi: Now in that version it loojs more like ESR :)
[11:29] <mdke> haha
[11:29] <MenZa> Yeeees, mdke.
[11:29] <bimberi> matthewrevell: stop it, you're killing me! ;-p
[12:12] <matthewrevell> Guys, has there been a resolution to the "selling stickers" debate? I don't want to jump into an old thread, if it's all been sorted out :)
[12:28] <bimberi> matthewrevell: Not imo.
[12:28] <matthewrevell> bimberi: Right, thanks.
[12:30] <bimberi> matthewrevell: i agree with those that have said that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Shipping seems like a solicitation
[12:30] <bimberi> however unintended
[12:33] <matthewrevell> bimberi: Yeah, it's a tricky one and a lesson for how we should proceed with the team.
[12:33] <matthewrevell> Action's great, but things like that shouldn't be done unilaterally, with an after the event ML post.
[12:34] <matthewrevell> It's a case of being seen to do the right thing, I think.
[12:37] <mdke> quite right
[12:41] <bimberi> I don't agree that "selling Ubuntu branded items by folks who are engaged in the community is a bad idea".  It needs to be at arms length.  The question is whether (and how) to disclose.
[12:41] <bimberi> ref: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-marketing/2006-July/000619.html
[12:42] <mdke> the real point is that the team is not well organised or well run enough at the moment to start thinking about dealing with a budget
[12:43] <matthewrevell> bimberi: The problem also comes when one person decides on a commercial venture, then promotes it through the marketing pages of the wiki.
[12:43] <matthewrevell> Jenda's primary concern may not be profit, but it still looks like a commercial venute.
[12:44] <matthewrevell> If we decided, as a team, that it was a good idea, and we had the infrastructure to handle it, then it wouldn't be a problem, IMO.
[12:44] <matthewrevell> Look at the way the doc team handle printed docs at cost through lulu.com
[12:51] <bimberi> Yes there can be team initiatives.  But I'm more than happy for jenda-or-whoever to undertake their own commercial venture and for them to keep any profits.  Just keep it low-key.  But how low-key?  Again, whether (and how) to disclose.
[12:52] <bimberi> fwiw ;)
[12:55] <Madpilot> low-key enough that it's not being promoted from the wiki, and from a sub-page off the main MT page...
[12:55] <matthewrevell> I've no problem in Jenda doing whatever he likes in his own name and with his own resources.
[12:56] <matthewrevell> Provided he has permission to use trademarks....
[12:56] <bimberi> oh yes! (re: trademarks)
[12:56] <matthewrevell> We're a team. Okay, we're currently a loose team.
[12:56] <matthewrevell> But we need to behave like a team.
[12:57] <matthewrevell> Not like a bunch of people doing random things under a loose banner.
[01:01] <bimberi> right, yes, that has been said a lot.  Can we take lessons from other teams on how they became "tighter" then?
[01:05] <matthewrevell> bimberi: I hope so. We have mdke and other people from well established teams who are subscribed to the list. mdke helpfully jumps in from time to time :)
[01:06] <matthewrevell> bimberi: We appear to be going through the motions - meetings, Launchpad, etc - we just need everyone to sign up to the way of working.
[01:07] <bimberi> matthewrevell: processes and procedures?
[01:08] <matthewrevell> bimberi: We don't wanna get bogged down but it'd be nice to feel that we were working towards the same level of, ugh, professionalism (dirty word in some circles)
[01:09] <bimberi> hehe, not to me :)
[01:09] <bimberi> they (Ps & Ps) are things the docteam has that the marketing team doesn't
[04:20] <matthewrevell> hey adam
[04:22] <adamant1988> hello matthewrevell :)
[04:23] <adamant1988> matthewrevell: you are somewhat in charge of the marketing team no?
[04:23] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: Not at all, no.
[04:23] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: There isn't really anyone in charge
[04:23] <matthewrevell> I just had a loud mouth :)
[04:23] <matthewrevell> s/had/have
[04:23] <adamant1988> oh, but you are in an administrative position on the launchpad, yes?
[04:24] <matthewrevell> Oh yeah, I'm an admin on Launchpad for the marketing team
[04:24] <adamant1988> ok, that's where I was going with that...
[04:24] <matthewrevell> How can I help? :)
[04:24] <adamant1988> I was thinking to myself today... what is holding us back, what is holding linux back, and what can we do to best destroy or side-step these barriers...
[04:25] <matthewrevell> Big questions, but good to think about!
[04:25] <adamant1988> It occured to me, though.
[04:25] <adamant1988> How can you advertise Ubuntu, to a world that knows so very little about Linux.
[04:25] <matthewrevell> Well, you could ask the question of whether the world needs to know about Linux to find out about Ubuntu.
[04:26] <matthewrevell> Perhaps it's better to think of the ways ubuntu can help people
[04:26] <adamant1988> No, they don't need to know it to find out about Ubuntu.
[04:26] <matthewrevell> e.g. no viruses
[04:26] <adamant1988> But, do they need to know about it to understand why Ubuntu is good?
[04:27] <adamant1988> They go on the main site and read 'Ubuntu- Linux for human beings"  instantly they get into thoughts of command lines and all kinds of difficulty, or they just get confused.
[04:28] <adamant1988> I think that if Ubuntu isn't going to try be "less linux more ubuntu" we need to tell people about linux too.
[04:29] <mdke> I don't think so.
[04:29] <matthewrevell> It's an interesting point.
[04:29] <mdke> my parents recently went onto the main site
[04:30] <adamant1988> mdke, you just made my next point for me.
[04:30] <mdke> their response was that it couldn't be a serious project because it sounded like it was "hippy" stuff
[04:30] <matthewrevell> Personally, I think we need to talk about the benefits of Ubuntu, to the average computer user, rather than  confuse the issue with talk of Linux.
[04:30] <adamant1988> you just said "my parents"
[04:30] <matthewrevell> mdke: Really? Interesting.
[04:30] <mdke> all the talk of freedom and such
[04:30] <mdke> yep
[04:30] <adamant1988> You've made another point that I've been trying to push
[04:31] <adamant1988> Linux, and more to the point, Ubuntu adoption will not be made through conventional channels
[04:31] <matthewrevell> mdke: My issue with the Ubuntu.com home page is that it's not clear enough and still looks too much like a project, rather than non-community members can trust.
[04:31] <adamant1988> I think person to person, in contanct with one another, is the best way to spread Ubuntu
[04:31] <adamant1988> It's a slower advertising method, but it works.
[04:31] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: That's the beauty, it's not advertising.
[04:32] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: One to one advocacy is immensely important to Ubuntu.
[04:32] <adamant1988> I agree, the problem is that the loco teams are just kind of told to wing it.
[04:32] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: People trust people they know, whereas they apply a great deal more cynicism to advertising
[04:33] <adamant1988> the loco teams could be amazingly effective.
[04:33] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: Well, it'd be great if we, the marketing team, could build up resources to support the loco teams. If we draw on what has worked for the loco teams and then help share it with others, that should help.
[04:34] <adamant1988> I think that the marketing team should do what it can to help give some structure and guidelines and such with the loco teams etc....
[04:34] <adamant1988> also, some kind of aid...
[04:34] <adamant1988> marketing kits, and so forth.
[04:35] <mdke> right, there has been some good work done by locoteams that the marketing team could latch onto and support/spread
[04:35] <matthewrevell> Absolutely.
[04:35] <mdke> the australian team is a good example
[04:35] <adamant1988> I just wish that Ubuntu's business model weren't so dead.
[04:36] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: In what way?
[04:36] <adamant1988> the whole 0 cost for everything kind of sucks.
[04:36] <matthewrevell> Pretty big statement. What do you mean?
[04:36] <adamant1988> if I want to order Ubuntu in boxes with as many CD's as I like to take to a show, I shouldn't have to worry about Shipit downsizing an order that was made too small in the first place.
[04:37] <matthewrevell> So, you'd rather have the option to pay towards the cost of the CDs?
[04:37] <adamant1988> or if I just flat out want to order some posters, flyers, premade documentations, etc. I should be able to...
[04:37] <adamant1988> I'm saying if I can get them faster and get the number I actually need, I would pay for it, yes.
[04:37] <matthewrevell> Right.
[04:38] <adamant1988> and I would also like to help keep the people packaging those CD's in a position to have a job.
[04:38] <matthewrevell> There are ways to float ideas up to the Community Council.
[04:38] <mdke> what do you mean by "have a job"?
[04:38] <mdke> and who are you talking about?
[04:38] <adamant1988> I mean get paid.
[04:38] <mdke> who doesn't get paid?
[04:39] <adamant1988> Mr.Shuttleworth is an amazing person for doing what he's doing, but he's spending a lot of money lately, if there are no returns he won't be able to keep doing that.
[04:39] <silbs> adamant1988: you can buy larger quantities of CDs. write to marilize@canonical.com, cost is EUR 1 / CD, payment in advance.
[04:39] <mdke> don't worry about him. He'll have a business model in mind
[04:40] <adamant1988> another thing that I *Think* ubuntu should do is a second install CD that you pay for...
[04:41] <mdke> ah, that's cool. silbs, is that integrated with shipit already?
[04:41] <adamant1988> I recently popped a Linspire disk into my laptop just to play around with it.
[04:41] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: What do you mean by a second install CD? Something to avoid having to download from online repositories?
[04:41] <adamant1988> I was amazed, my wireless JUST WORKED, mp3 support, etc. Just worked.
[04:41] <adamant1988> Something for people who can't get to those repos, and something LEGAL for people in the US
[04:42] <silbs> mdke: not yet.  Although there is no reason why there shouldn't be a notice about it on the site. I'll ask someone to add that if it's not there already.
[04:42] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: There's a philosophical difference between the two distros, though.
[04:42] <mdke> silbs: good idea.
[04:42] <adamant1988> I know, but does the mean that Ubuntu should downright refuse to meet a need that a lot of people have?
[04:43] <adamant1988> I want to legally have everything just work in Ubuntu, I don't care to pay for that... and everyone would find that the only people who would mind paying for it are people who can't.  Either they don't have a CC or they don't have any money... in which case they're welcome to the completely free version.
[04:43] <silbs> adamant1988: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/412 are dvds with more s/w from the repos. Ships int he US
[04:44] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: Mark S said in a talk, at the weekend, that Ubuntu makes it as easy as possible for people to add the non-free stuff. However, the free software aspect of Ubuntu is fundamental.
[04:44] <silbs> not proprietary stuff though, just free s/w from our repos
[04:44] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: The beauty of free software is that you can choose between different providers.
[04:45] <adamant1988> so then the problem is not just spreading Ubuntu anymore.
[04:45] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: However, you can get all your stuff working fairly easily in Ubuntu. It's a compromise that Mark feels is important.
[04:45] <adamant1988> It's telling people that they can't legally watch their DVD's and that their mp3 collections won't work legally, etc.
[04:46] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: Fluendo have, I believe, recently licensed mp3 and DVD technology for free of charge use by the community. So, it's not a legal issue, AFAIK.
[04:46] <matthewrevell> But yes, I take the point that it's a stumbling block.
[04:46] <adamant1988> I knew about the mp3, but DVD?
[04:46] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: I may be wrong on the DVD thing...
[04:47] <matthewrevell> It's true that the average home computer user expects everything to just work. Ubuntu makes it as easy as possible, while remaining true to its purpose.
[04:47] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: I'd suggest focusing on the great stuff about Ubuntu, when telling other people about it.
[04:47] <mdke> right. there's no point trying to fool the users that something works, when it doesn't
[04:48] <mdke> Ubuntu doesn't make any apologies for its free software policies
[04:48] <adamant1988> Oh I know that, I'm just saying it makes ubuntu a harder sell to home users.
[04:48] <mdke> we have to work with what we have, and hope that the foot in the door increases enough for the rest to follow
[04:48] <adamant1988> especcially when they get the feeling that "the government" could bust through their door because they're using libdvdcss
[04:49] <matthewrevell> Yeah, true, Linspire and the forthcoming Freepsire compromise on the issue of MP3 etc. But Ubuntu is streets ahead of either *spire in other ways
[04:49] <matthewrevell> Community, package repositories, interface, etc.
[04:49] <adamant1988> Yeah, Ubuntu is much more up to date, yes.  But Linspire has it's merits... CNR, hardware detection, and excellent installer.
[04:50] <adamant1988> the Ubuntu community however, is amazing
[04:50] <matthewrevell> Ubuntu's hardware detection has always been good for me and the installer with Dapper is, IMO, better than what I remember of the Linspire 5.0 installer
[04:50] <mdke> potentially something which makes dvd playback available legally would be a good thing. But the right way to approach it isn't to release a separate cd of Ubuntu at a price, it is to make software for Ubuntu which allows users to purchase support for their free Ubuntu
[04:51] <adamant1988> Yeah, I wouldn't be against having a desktop icon that told me I could buy mp3 support, DVD playback, and other things.
[04:51] <mdke> well, mp3 support is free already
[04:51] <ormiret> did that ever get further than talk?
[04:51] <adamant1988> Yeah, CNR would be great for ubuntu
[04:51] <adamant1988> I would pay for it in a second.
[04:52] <mdke> ormiret: just talk I think
[04:52] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: Thankfully, CNR is now free software, and Linspire is a .deb based distro, so I'm sure it could be ported without any need for cash to change hands.
[04:53] <matthewrevell> Back to your original point, though
[04:53] <matthewrevell> If you believe in what Ubuntu is trying to achieve and that it's the best option for someone else, focus on the positives.
[04:54] <matthewrevell> Other issues, such as MP3 playback, can be resolved.
[04:55] <adamant1988> Oh I believe in the free software thing, but I believe in usability first =\
[05:00] <mdke> well, mp3s should be fine for edgy
[05:00] <matthewrevell> Then you need to decide which is more important. I believe Ubuntu is very usable, moreso than most Linuxes. If you go for Linspire, you'll have to sell the $50 annual CNR fee and $50 upfront cost. If you go for Mac OS, you don't have any real usability problems, but it isn't free software.
[05:00] <matthewrevell> mdke: cool
[05:00] <mdke> if you want to investigate whether it would be possible to write some software to provide dvd support to Ubuntu at a modest price, I think it would be successful
[05:00] <adamant1988> yeah, they're doing great with multimedia in edgy
[05:00] <mdke> but it's a reasonable sized project
[05:01] <ormiret> mdke: and a huge legal issue as well as code
[05:02] <adamant1988> the biggest thing would be paying for the right to use libdvdcss legally
[05:02] <mdke> ormiret: well no, because you'd be buying the right to use the software, and the vendor would arrange the legal permission
[05:03] <adamant1988> if mark could just secure powerDVD for Ubuntu, we'd be set
[05:03] <ormiret> mdke: ok, thought you meant making the software to play DVDs
[05:03] <mdke> ormiret: yes, that's exactly what I meant.
[05:04] <ormiret> mdke: then you're going to need contracts with the patent holders for the CSS stuff
[05:04] <adamant1988> or we could just get power DVD for Ubuntu :P
[05:05] <ormiret> which is not something that a small company can get
[05:05] <mdke> ormiret: yes, the person making the software would arrange that, of course. as adamant1988, powerDVD for Ubuntu, or some other similar program
[05:05] <adamant1988> I guess that my main problem with it is that stuff like works "out of the box" in every other operating system, save for most of linux.
[05:06] <mdke> dvd support doesn't work out of the box with Windows either
[05:06] <mdke> you need to buy it
[05:06] <mdke> (for example, by buying power dvd)
[05:06] <adamant1988> Ubuntu should require very little configuration, actually, next to none when you install it
[05:06] <ormiret> it does on a lot of machines, but its added by the vendor
[05:06] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: Like I say, focus on the positives. Think of no more spyware, no viruses, etc. Compare that to the trivial matter of setting up one or two things as a one-off
[05:07] <adamant1988> Oh, I know how to keep on the positives of a project, I'm just noting some things that could make life easier for everyone
[05:07] <ormiret> when we get vendors selling ubuntu machines this kind of issue goes away :)
[05:07] <adamant1988> unless they're like system76
[05:08] <adamant1988> system76 won't install anything past nvidia drivers as far as I know...
[05:08] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: Yeah, but Ubuntu will only ship with free software, so unfortunately what you're asking for isn't going to happen, as far as I can see. So, you have to work around it.
[05:08] <adamant1988> I know, but the community counterbalances that I suppose
[05:09] <mdke> a vendor might ship Ubuntu with dvd support, if there was an easy way for the vendor to buy that support
[05:09] <adamant1988> that's one thing that's keeping me from recommending Linspire... if something goes wrong in Linspire the user would have to ask the very limited number of people in the linspire forums.
[05:09] <ormiret> are there any legal dvd players for linux?
[05:09] <adamant1988> yes ormiret
[05:09] <adamant1988> Linspire has one and PowerDVD is another
[05:10] <matthewrevell> adamant1988: to be fair to Linspire, I thought their forums were pretty active
[05:10] <adamant1988> they are, but they're nothing compared to Ubuntu's
[05:10] <matthewrevell> right
[05:10] <matthewrevell> I see
[05:11] <adamant1988> I can honestly tell people when they start using ubuntu, that they have picked the most "living" operating system of any of them
[05:12] <adamant1988> from the soft human colors, to the easy access community of thousands... not to mention that Ubuntu's community spreads ubuntu.  People join the community and instantly it's like they want to help out however they can...  You get all this talent doing things tohelp, for free.
[05:15] <adamant1988> So back to the point, Loco teams will be the most effective way to spread ubuntu, in my opinion
[05:15] <adamant1988> no website or anything is going to have NEAR the amount of effectiveness that a person on person marketing would have.
[05:16] <ormiret> adamant1988: agreed, what we need to do is help them (pooling material and "what works" info etc)
[05:16] <ormiret> (which I think was said a while back)
[05:16] <adamant1988> and with Ubuntu's rediculous 6 month release cycle... it's going to evolve into something more user friendly drastically fast
[05:16] <matthewrevell> yeah, we need to be a support function for the rest fo the community
[05:17] <adamant1988> I wish that they did the repos a little differently though
[05:18] <adamant1988> I don't like that the repos "get frozen" and nothing new is added...
[05:18] <adamant1988> but the edgy repos will have a ton of new crap I'm sure
[05:19] <ormiret> adamant1988: you mean after release?
[05:20] <adamant1988> yeah
[05:20] <ormiret> there is backports if you want new stuff
[05:20] <adamant1988> does that add new programs as well? not just updated ones?
[05:21] <ormiret> but the risk of breakage every time something is added makes it unfeasible for a released distro
[05:22] <adamant1988> I didn't know that... I wonder how Linspire works that out =\
[05:22] <adamant1988> I remember in the CNR thread that was something that Keving Carmony was saying a LOT was that new stuff was added every day
[05:22] <ormiret> do linspire release new stuff continuously?
[05:23] <adamant1988> yeah, they proud the fact that they're always adding new crap to the CNR warehouse
[05:24] <adamant1988> pride*
[05:25] <ormiret> adding new stuff that you can download if you decide too isn't too bad, but releasing updates continuously will prevent use in a production system
[05:25] <ormiret> then you want to test all updates yourself first (and you can't realistically do that every day)
[05:26] <adamant1988> yeah, I think they work that out with a test warehouse
[05:27] <ormiret> trying to support a continuously moving target isn't much fun either :)
[05:28] <adamant1988> lol yeah
[05:31] <adamant1988> life is so fricking complicated lol
[05:32] <ormiret> :)
[07:03] <adamant1988> hello all
[07:06] <gaz00> hiya adamant1988
[07:07] <adamant1988> You know I was thinking to myself because I was bored... Ubuntu has no real target market does it?
[07:07] <Burgwork> the world?
[07:07] <adamant1988> I don't even think that's the target market.
[07:08] <adamant1988> It occurs to me that all the changes to Ubuntu are made because there is a demand present inside the community that supports it... Ubuntu doesn't sell itself to a target market, it just meets the needs of it's community... it's actually brillian
[07:08] <adamant1988> brilliant...
[07:08] <adamant1988> and as that community grows, more and more peoples needs are met, and slowly but surely the needs of almost everyone are met.
[07:11] <adamant1988> I just can't believe that didn't occur to me earlier... -_-
[07:14] <gaz00> heh... ubuntu's odd like that
[07:15] <gaz00> but they only appeal to the common denominator - at the moment, anyone that's in a field that requirse any kind of specialization can't use it.
[07:15] <gaz00> but given that the average home users use pretty much the same apps, it's golden.
[07:16] <adamant1988> I think it's targeted to the home user, and at the same time isn't.
[07:16] <gaz00> uhm
[07:16] <gaz00> okay?
[07:16] <adamant1988> It's targeted to the home user by how it's built... but the absolute refusal to use non-free software is kind of a stumbling block in the home user market
[07:17] <adamant1988> so it's actually targeted to the home user who doesn't do anything multimedia related, I suppose...
[07:18] <gaz00> heh... while at the same time providing a venue for that particular niche market to install such apps and codecs, without eliminating other groups as potential users.
[07:19] <Kamping_Kaiser> but can also be installed on sun T[12] 000 machines ;)
[07:20] <adamant1988> yeah, now if only it were legal we would be seet
[07:20] <adamant1988> set
[07:20] <adamant1988> Edgy is going a long way to fix that problem, as long as they make getting libdvdcss easy enough that I don't have to download any potentially unsafe scripts, I'll be happy
[07:22] <Kamping_Kaiser> OMG
[07:22] <Kamping_Kaiser> Etch is Debian 4.0!!
[07:23] <Klaidas> SUre is!!
[07:23] <Kamping_Kaiser> and due for release in December!
[07:23] <Klaidas> yup :)
[07:24] <Kamping_Kaiser> :)
[07:24] <MenZa> I felt like doing that.
[07:24] <Kamping_Kaiser> i'll sell my soul to them if they manage to get it out in december ;0
[07:24] <MenZa> :D
[07:24] <Kamping_Kaiser> :)
[07:26] <adamant1988> LOL guys look at this http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/18840276/
[07:27] <Kamping_Kaiser> heh
[07:30] <adamant1988> I like this one
[07:30] <adamant1988> http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/21314645/
[07:31] <Kamping_Kaiser> nice :)
[07:32] <Kamping_Kaiser> night all :)
[07:32] <Kamping_Kaiser> see you soon
[11:38] <sebpayne> hey matthewrevell :-D
[11:38] <sebpayne> matthewrevell: should i join the Marketing team on launchpad
[11:38] <matthewrevell> sebpayne: oi, you're too drunk to be here
[11:38] <matthewrevell> :)
[11:38] <matthewrevell> sebpayne: Sure, join that and the ubuntu-marketing mailing list
[11:38] <sebpayne> matthewrevell: i'll write a note
[11:39] <sebpayne> i cna't find freefox atm
[11:39] <matthewrevell> use a legacy writing device
[11:39] <matthewrevell> :)
[11:39] <sebpayne> damn pens
[11:39] <matthewrevell> Not making a fool of yourself :)
[11:39] <matthewrevell> Anyway, I'm off to bed m'self.
[11:46] <matthewrevell> nixternal: you in here this evening?
[11:46] <nixternal> yes sir
[11:46] <matthewrevell> :)
[11:46] <nixternal> working on http://chi.ubuntu-us.org right now
[11:46] <matthewrevell> Thanks for posting that to the list, I think it was better coming from you, as you were in the conversation
[11:47] <nixternal> no problem. i am hoping there will be a meeting soon on everything with the fridge
[11:48] <matthewrevell> cool - I think the best thing is just to start getting stuff up there and see where it leads
[11:48] <matthewrevell> Otherwise it could become yet another thing where people talk endlessly and in vague terms about what they think is required
[11:48] <matthewrevell> :)
[11:48] <nixternal> exactly
[11:48] <matthewrevell> There's a lot of that on the marketing ML
[11:49] <nixternal> well, after conversations with sabdfl, hopefully it will take off
[11:49] <matthewrevell> yeah, you had a chat with him about it?
[11:49] <nixternal> heh, sounds like marketing ;)
[11:49] <nixternal> well, via email that everyone seen im sure
[11:49] <matthewrevell> oh right, yeah.
[11:50] <matthewrevell> TBH getting the Fridge going is gonna be easy. Building on it'll take a bit more work, but it'll be fun :)
[11:50] <nixternal> i understand your frustrations here as well with this team. on a good note with marketing, ubuntu chicago has a meeting tomorrow night, where we are planning on handing out a couple hundred more cds
[11:50] <matthewrevell> Cool :)
[11:50] <nixternal> without a doubt on that one
[11:50] <Burgwork> I am excited about hte fridge
[11:50] <matthewrevell> I have more time now, so plan to stir things up a bit :)
[11:50] <Burgwork> I think it can bring together the magazine and SU teams
[11:51] <nixternal> good deal. friday i go on vacation, but will be around to catch up a little at night
[11:51] <nixternal> between 0300UTC and 0600 UTC maybe
[11:51] <matthewrevell> Burgwork: I hope so. it concerns me that people are pursuing vanity projects, to some extent.
[11:51] <matthewrevell> Maybe that's harsh.
[11:51] <nixternal> heh
[11:52] <matthewrevell> but it feels that way
[11:52] <Burgwork> I wouldn't say that
[11:52] <nixternal> i know what you mean ;)
[11:52] <Burgwork> I would say that they have failed to consider the larger picture
[11:52] <matthewrevell> Burgwork: Well, maybe it's an organisational thing.
[11:53] <nixternal> so far i see nothing but words, i have seen no action, and when i start action it usually leads nowhere
[11:53] <Burgwork> it is
[11:53] <Burgwork> hence why the fridge is so important
[11:53] <Burgwork> creates something for these people to start
[11:53] <matthewrevell> Absolutely.
[11:54] <matthewrevell> Or more for people to become involved in. starting things is hard, getting into someting that's already there is somewhat easier
[11:54] <matthewrevell> Anyway, I gotta get to bed. catch you guys tomorrow
[11:54] <nixternal> they can definitely provide information, but if im not mistaken, all admins/editors will be Ubuntu Members... i hope this doesn't create a wall, one that has been somewhat visible in the past
[11:54] <nixternal> g'nite matthewrevell
[11:54] <matthewrevell> g'nite :)
[11:55] <Burgwork> nixternal, ubuntu membership is not exactly onerous
[11:57] <nixternal> well, from the past couple of CCs, it seems that is kind of changing..you need good backing and a good track record
[11:57] <Burgwork> still not hard
[11:57] <nixternal> no not at all
[11:58] <nixternal> as long as you can show contributions, you are usually good to go
[11:58] <nixternal> having a couple people behind you helps as well