[12:08] <LaserJock> hub: hehe
[12:12] <pirast> good night guys.. and happy dreams about open sourced nvidia and ati drivers :-)
[12:12] <pirast> bye
[12:19] <LaserJock> hmm, nice. OS X just wiped my mp3 player
[12:23] <fowlduck> LaserJock: iTunes did that on my brother's ipod
[12:23] <fowlduck> simply fantastic to lose all that music
[12:23] <LaserJock> well, mine is a sandisk and it shows up as a usbdisk
[12:23] <fowlduck> ???
[12:24] <fowlduck> and it whiped it?
[12:24] <LaserJock> I didn't see any songs
[12:24] <LaserJock> so I dragged one on
[12:24] <LaserJock> and so now I have one song and nothing else
[12:24] <LaserJock> I had 1.9 GB on there
[12:40] <zul> hey
[01:23] <LaserJock> nixternal_: hi!
[01:23] <crimsun> how was the school session this noon (localtime)?
[01:32] <LaserJock> crimsun: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources
[01:32] <crimsun> LaserJock: right, but more of an intuitive assessment, not log :-)
[01:33] <LaserJock> I don't know, I missed it :(
[01:57] <LaserJock> darn, we must be doing too much work. LP says there are 2698 pending builds :(
[02:29] <ryanakca> what! drats
[02:29] <ryanakca> I missed motu school
[02:30] !lilo:*! If anyone is at OSCON and can locate Nat Torkington, please message me. Thanks.
[02:30] <jsgotangco> that's fine you can always check the logs
[02:34] <LaserJock> ryanakca: there is another one in a couple days
[02:34] <ryanakca> :)
[02:34] <crimsun> err, there is?
[02:35] <LaserJock> isn't there?
[02:35] <LaserJock> well, more than a couple I guess
[02:39] <fowlduck> LaserJock: laserjock.justgotowned.com
[02:40] <fowlduck> LaserJock: fowlduck.youaremighty.com
[02:40] <fowlduck> crimsun: crimsun.youaremyfriend.com
[02:40] <fowlduck> hehe :)
[02:42] <LaserJock> fowlduck: oh man
[02:42] <fowlduck> LaserJock: hilarious, huh? ;D
[02:42] <fowlduck> i mean, who comes up with this?
[02:46] <LaserJock> fowlduck: people who have more time then me
[02:47] <fowlduck> indeed ;D
[03:21] <lukaswayne9> My packges that got uploaded from the REVU aren't working from universe... I get this error when I try to install E: Package fceu-server has no installation candidate
[03:23] <LaserJock> lukaswayne9: is it in the archives yet?
[03:23] <lukaswayne9> LaserJock: I'll check
[03:24] <crimsun> in Edgy I see pool/universe/f/fceu
[03:25] <lukaswayne9> It was marked uploaded a week ago
[03:25] <crimsun> they're in the NEW queue
[03:25] <crimsun> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=fceu
[03:26] <crimsun> i.e., be patient and the admins will process them
[03:26] <lukaswayne9> oh, okay great
[03:26] <lukaswayne9> thanks
[03:28] <mxpxpod> I'm using linux on powerpc and I tried installing sun-java5-jre and it's dependant on sun-java5-bin, but it doesn't look like that's available on powerpc... does someone have any insight as to why that is?
[03:29] <zul> does it work on powerpc?
[03:29] <mxpxpod> zul: why shouldn't it?
[03:29] <crimsun> because Sun doesn't make binaries of them available.
[03:29] <crimsun> you should use IBM's 1.5 jdk instead.
[03:29] <mxpxpod> crimsun: where do I get that?
[03:30] <crimsun> mxpxpod: http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/java/jdk/linux/download.html
[03:30] <crimsun> mxpxpod: 32-bit iSeries/pSeries
[03:31] <mxpxpod> thanks
[03:31] <mxpxpod> will that run tomcat, do you think?
[03:31] <crimsun> yes, it will.
[03:31] <mxpxpod> cool
[03:31] <crimsun> well, I've tested 5.0 and 5.5, that is
[03:32] <mxpxpod> will tomcat work on kaffe?
[03:32] <crimsun> have not tried that. I was employed by IBM at the time, which is the only reason I know about it.
[03:32] <mxpxpod> heh, ok
[03:33] <crimsun> I'd worry about privacy, but they already have my info :-)
[03:33] <mxpxpod> heh
[03:35] <ajmitch> hi
[03:35] <crimsun> hi
[03:36] <mxpxpod> ah, gotta love bugmenot.com
[03:37] <crimsun> :-)
[03:38] <mxpxpod> crimsun: if only someone would package this up
[03:41] <crimsun> it'd be a great candidate for dapper-commercial, true
[03:41] <mxpxpod> is ibm in on ubuntu?
[03:43] <crimsun> I don't know tbh
[03:44] <crimsun> I know some people who work at the RTP facility use and test Ubuntu, and IBM has contacted Ben about the ABAT process for the kernel
[03:44] <zul> i thought that was a while ago
[03:44] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:44] <crimsun> yeah, that's all I know :)
[03:44] <zul> yeah same here
[03:44] <mxpxpod> if only we could get ibm to contribute their java like sun has
[03:45] <mxpxpod> java sdk, rather
[03:49] <bddebian> Who wants java anything? :-)
[03:49] <mxpxpod> bddebian: not me... but some crazies out there do ;)
[03:51] <son-of-bddebian> bddebian: what's up dude?
[03:52] <bddebian> Uh oh
[03:53] <bddebian> Hello son-of-bddebian :)
[03:53] <bddebian> What'd I do this time?
[03:53] <son-of-bddebian> hmm, maybe I should make it perminent
[03:54] <LaserJock> ah, that's better ;-)
[04:25] <chillywilly> lalla
[04:28] <bddebian> Heya chillywilly
[04:50] <chillywilly> http://rafb.net/paste/results/iC9aA456.html <-- gnome-settings-daemon keeps crashing in edgy...not sure why cause it starts up fine when I start it manually...
[05:23] <Lathiat> ooh shiny
[05:23] <Lathiat> my dapper cds just rocked up
[05:23] <Lathiat> and they include stickers!
[05:23] <crimsun> nice :)
[05:24] <Hobbsee> StevenK: yeah, but we're in the far corner of the world.
[05:24] <StevenK> True.
[05:24] <Lathiat> so now my work has a nic new stock
[05:24] <Lathiat> i got all kubuntu, ubuntu and edubuntu
[05:24] <Lathiat> in 32/64/mac
[05:24] <Lathiat> and like COLORS!
[05:25] <Lathiat> not sure how i ended up with so many 64bit tho
[05:25] <Lathiat> looks liek they modified by order
[05:25] <Lathiat> would have rather they modified the 64bits down than the 32s
[05:25] <Lathiat> oh wel
[05:36] <uniscript> I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but does anyone know which module populates /etc/X11/Xsession.d?
[05:37] <hub> Lathiat: I have all CD they ship
[05:37] <crimsun> it's not the right place, but a variety of packages do, namely x11-common, dbus, and xinit, among others.
[05:38] <Lathiat> hub: as do i
[05:38] <Lathiat> altho a small quantity of the less popular ones
[05:38] <Lathiat> but good to have a few
[05:38] <uniscript> when x is reinstalled, does that directory get blown away? If so, how does it get repopulated?
[05:38] <crimsun> uniscript: you --reinstall the packages I just mentioned
[05:38] <uniscript> crimsun: where should I take my question?
[05:38] <crimsun> to #ubuntu
[05:38] <uniscript> OK. Thanks. Bye
[05:38] <hub> I have package that didn't finish compile 1.5hour after I started
[05:38] <hub> *sigh*
[05:39] <Hobbsee> hub: heh, i loe that happening
[05:39] <hub> time for bed
[05:41] <bddebian> Gnight hub
[05:41] <bddebian> *sigh*
[05:51] <LaserJock> anybody got any lilo experience around here?
[05:51] <crimsun> yes, but not for anything terribly complicated
[05:53] <LaserJock> hmm
[05:53] <LaserJock> well I managed to install Dapper on the intel iMac
[05:53] <bddebian> LaserJock: Are the smashintels still OF?
[05:53] <LaserJock> but it doesn't find my install on boot
[05:53] <LaserJock> I wonder if I did something wrong with lilo
[07:02] <Hobbsee> do you guys know about the volumeid bug yet?  it's overwriting a file in libvolumeid0
[07:03] <ajmitch> it is known
[07:03] <Hobbsee> ack, thought i was in -devel
[07:03] <Hobbsee> okay, cool.
[07:08] <ajmitch> someone needs to make the i386 buildd pedal faster
[07:08] <imbrandon_> hehe
[07:12] <viviersf> lol
[07:12] <viviersf> since ajmitch came up with that idea  .....
[07:14] <highvoltage> hi Hobbsee
[07:14] <Hobbsee> hi highvoltage
[07:16] <ajmitch> viviersf: sadly I don't have access
[07:16] <viviersf> lol ajmitch
[07:16] <viviersf> was just joking nways
[07:16] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: time to go and get it then.
[07:16] <ajmitch> sure, Hobbsee
[07:29] <ajmitch> excellent, ccache is working in pbuilder
[08:05] <Toadstool> good morning everybody
[08:06] <ajmitch> hi Toadstool
[08:06] <Toadstool> hi ajmitch
[09:23] <dholbach> good morning
[09:23] <Toadstool> bonjour Daniel ;)
[09:23] <dholbach> hey Toadstool!
[09:31] <Gloubiboulga> hi MOTU World
[09:32] <ajmitch> hello
[09:32] <Hobbsee> hi dholbach, Toadstool, Gloubiboulga
[09:32] <Toadstool> heya Gloubiboulga, Hobbsee
[09:32] <dholbach> hey Gloubiboulga
[09:32] <dholbach> hey Hobbsee
[12:28] <Arbiter> good morning MOTU
[12:52] <Arbiter> Gloubiboulga: ping
[12:52] <Gloubiboulga> hi Arbiter
[12:53] <Arbiter> hey Gloubiboulga :)
[12:53] <Arbiter> Gloubiboulga: fixed and uploaded agave
[12:53] <Gloubiboulga> I've seen :)
[12:53] <Arbiter> kdocker is about to be uploaded
[12:53] <Gloubiboulga> ok, I'll look at both a little later
[12:53] <Arbiter> Gloubiboulga: in kdocker's debian/rules i put a little bit of bashism (damned Makefile) :P
[12:54] <Arbiter> (for installing the icon and the .desktop files to proper places)
[12:54] <Gloubiboulga> hum, you have to avoid bashisms
[12:54] <Arbiter> dh_install?
[12:54] <Gloubiboulga> yep
[12:55] <Arbiter> mh... ok :)
[12:55] <Gloubiboulga> edgy uses dash now, so bashims make the packages fail to build
[12:56] <slomo_> Gloubiboulga: are you sure it is used on the buildds already? afaik it isn't used there yet because the chroots are not updated yet
[12:57] <Arbiter> Gloubiboulga: yup but i use only standard POSIX calls
[12:57] <Gloubiboulga> slomo_, I don't really know but I guess it'll be used soon or later
[12:57] <Arbiter> (no {} or such things)
[12:57] <Gloubiboulga> Arbiter, oh, it's ok then
[01:36] <chris^> Hi
[01:42] <Arbiter> hi chris^
[01:42] <chris^> I have just the idear, that there shoud be an extra loginsession for XGL per default...
[01:42] <chris^> if I install XGL on Edgy
[01:42] <chris^> that woud be easy to switch and test XGL
[01:42] <Arbiter> yup
[01:42] <chris^> someone sad, i shoud post this here ;)
[01:43] <Arbiter> chris^: yup i read in #ubuntu-devel :)
[01:43] <chris^> :)
[01:43] <chris^> i'm still testing XGL on Dapper
[01:43] <chris^> it's quiet cool and very stable
[01:43] <Arbiter> chris^: i'm not a MOTU yet (nor an ubuntu member)
[01:43] <chris^> just 2 or 3 little Bugs...
[01:46] <Arbiter> chris^: i approve your idea :)
[01:46] <chris^> :)
[01:49] <Arbiter> chris^: but i don't have any weight in MOTUs decisions
[01:49] <chris^> well
[01:50] <chris^> link to the discussion/posting?
[01:50] <Arbiter> chris^: i think you should ask a MOTU directly
[02:17] <tseng> has something changed with langpacks?
[02:17] <tseng> $ urxvt
[02:17] <tseng> urxvt: the locale is not supported by Xlib, working without locale support.
[02:17] <tseng> I am using en_US.UTF8 or whatever
[02:17] <tseng> and language-pack-en* is installed
[02:18] <ajmitch> run locale-gen again?
[02:19] <tseng> sudo dpkg-reconfigure locales
[02:19] <tseng> I did that
[02:19] <tseng> to the same effect
[02:19] <ajmitch> that method is obsolete, supposedly
[02:19] <ajmitch> with the switch to belocs*
[02:19] <Mithrandir> tseng: it looks like Xlib forgot about a bunch of UTF8 locales
[02:20] <sladen> oh, is /tat/ what the locale spew is aobut
[02:20] <tseng> I am not sure if this is the cause of urxvt not using a sensible font
[02:21] <tseng> Rxvt*font:xft:Bitstream Vera Sans Mono:pixelsize=12
[02:21] <tseng> oh maybe they changed what names they match in xres again
[02:22] <tseng> ah there we go.
[02:23] <tseng> all sorted.
[02:26] <ajmitch> tseng: and the fix was?
[02:26] <tseng> Rxvt*blah stopped matching
[02:26] <tseng> so i did a regex to URxvt.foo: blah
[02:26] <tseng> er
[02:26] <tseng> .blah: foo
[02:26] <tseng> but you know what I mean.
[02:27] <tseng> and then your xrdb -all .Xdefaults
[02:27] <ajmitch> edgy upgrade just screwed up my emacs fonts, probably not related though
[02:28] <tseng> if they are set in xres its possible
[02:28] <tseng> parsing seems less lax
[02:28] <ajmitch> they're not on here
[02:28] <tseng> I'll happily ignore the UTF8 errors now
[02:29] <tseng> since its not the cause of not reading my fonts
[02:29] <tseng> I am fluent in "C"
[02:37] <pirast> hi, i try to package blocxx. the source code has a dir "doc". should the files located in the dir installed to /usr/share/doc/....... or should they not?
[02:45] <ryanakca> I'm trying to package galaxymage... and I have a feeling its very simple to do so... since all I have to do is go "python GalaxyMage.py" in the source directory... except i'm not positive as to how to package it... (I'm used to the make style)... got a link anybody?
[02:56] <pirast> ryanakca, yesterday i hit on a howto how to make python debs.. but sadly i can find the link again, you may want to look for debhelper-python
[02:57] <ryanakca> kk, ty
[02:58] <ryanakca> pirast: just a quick thought... history?
[02:58] <pirast> ryanakca wait, i look if i can find it there..
[02:59] <ryanakca> :)
[03:00] <pirast> ryanakca okay i found it.. but it was about build debian packages with perl modules.. sorry.. i remembered wrong
[03:00] <pirast> *building
[03:01] <ryanakca> lol, thanks anywais :)
[03:51] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:58] <Toadstool> hi bddebian
[03:58] <bddebian> Heya Toadstool
[04:10] <Gloubiboulga> bddebian, I have to leave for a couple of hours, let's see what we can do with prismstumbler when I'm back :)
[04:13] <bddebian> Gloubiboulga: NP, thanks
[04:26] <bddebian> *sigh*
[04:28] <Arbiter> yaaawn
[04:30] <zul> cd /var/qmail/bin
[04:30] <zul> damn it
[05:06] <seaLne> is revu broken?
[05:06] <seaLne> Error '553 Could not create file.' during ftp transfer
[05:18] <ryanakca> seaLne: you trying to upload or download?
[05:18] <pirast> is a revu admin in this channel?
[05:18] <ryanakca> upload I take it... "Could not create file"
[05:18] <seaLne> upload
[05:19] <ryanakca> dput it :)
[05:19] <seaLne> thats what generates the error...
[05:19] <ajmitch> pirast: yes
[05:19] <ajmitch> seaLne: what package?
[05:19] <ryanakca> lol... oops.. (I thought you where using something like gftp or something)
[05:19] <seaLne> ajmitch: kmobiletools, you able to see log?
[05:19] <pirast> ajmitch: whats his name?
[05:20] <ajmitch> seaLne: cleared it, try again
[05:20] <Toadstool> pirast: it's ajmitch :)
[05:20] <seaLne> ajmitch: what was wrong?
[05:20] <ryanakca> ajmitch: can you reset my revu password? the "retreive password" python script doesn't work for me :)
[05:20] <ajmitch> seaLne: the files were there.. if an upload breaks partway through they need to be deleted
[05:21] <ajmitch> ryanakca: have you uploaded a package to revu, that appears on the page?
[05:21] <seaLne> ah
[05:21] <ryanakca> yes, typespeed
[05:21] <pirast> ajmitch, nice to meet you again :-) i select blocxx to package and i finished now. so i uploaded to revu - but the password recovery function does not work. there always is a broken pipe error or there does not appear any text to paste..
[05:21] <ryanakca> two uploads of it (two different versions)
[05:21] <ryanakca> same thing happens to me :)
[05:22] <ajmitch> does the key you use have that email address as a uid?
[05:22] <ryanakca> yes
[05:23] <pirast> ajmitch, sure..
[05:23] <ajmitch> pirast: have you been accepted into the group on launchpad, and your key imported into revu?
[05:24] <ajmitch> ok, I see what the problem is for retrieving, at least
[05:24] <pirast> ajmitch: i think so, yes.. it shows "approved", and my key is in launchpad, too..
[05:24] <pirast> ajmitch: great :-)
[05:25] <ajmitch> be patient, I'm reimporting keys
[05:29] <seaLne> did revu not used to have a last generated date on it somewhere?
[05:30] <ajmitch> ok, blocxx & kmobiletools should be up now
[05:31] <ajmitch> try retrieving passwords
[05:32] <ryanakca> ajmitch: works, ty
[05:32] <seaLne> thanks
[05:33] <pirast> ajmitch: works, thanks
[05:37] <ryanakca> what package provides gnome-config? "./configure: line 1479: gnome-config: command not found"
[05:38] <azeem> ryanakca: that's some GNOME-1.x thing
[05:38] <azeem> AFAIK
[05:39] <ryanakca> and how do I build a package that depends on it?
[05:39] <azeem> are you sure you want to build it?
[05:39] <ryanakca> well... it's the only linux euchre game I've found :)
[05:39] <azeem> GNOME-1.x is pretty obsolete
[05:40] <azeem> but, surprise, libgnome-dev is still in dapper
[05:40] <azeem> ryanakca: packages.ubuntu.com has a search facility, btw (which I used to find out the information for you)
[05:40] <ryanakca> ah, ty.. I had searched aptitude :)
[05:40] <azeem> aptitude doesn't search for files, use apt-file for that
[05:41] <ryanakca> ty
[05:41] <ryanakca> http://sourceforge.net/projects/euchre/
[05:42] <ryanakca> hasn't been touched since 02... but oh well
[05:44] <ryanakca> azeem: any ideas?
[05:44] <azeem> about what?
[05:45] <azeem>  Development Status : 3 - Alpha
[05:45] <bddebian> azeem!!  Hey, you are Mr. Science packages right? :-)
[05:45] <azeem> bddebian: I'm Mr. Chemistry packages
[05:45] <bddebian> Damn
[05:49] <ryanakca> azeem: I can't install libgnome-dev without removing libdb4.3.dev... http://pastebin.ca/100936
[05:50] <azeem> ryanakca: so make a decision which one you need more urgently
[05:50] <ryanakca> which means that the end-user will have to make the same decision
[05:50] <azeem> does euchre need db4.3?
[05:50] <ryanakca> and libdb4.3 and libdb3 can't coexist?
[05:51] <ryanakca> hmmm... not from what I can tell
[05:53] <azeem> ryanakca: the runtime libdb package do not conflict
[05:53] <ryanakca> soo... why can't I keep both?
[05:54] <azeem> because the development packages conflict
[05:54] <ryanakca> ok...
[05:55] <azeem> ryanakca: are you planning to make a .deb out of this
[05:55] <azeem> ?
[05:55] <ryanakca> yes... but before I want to test it...
[05:55] <ryanakca> but I don't think making a .deb of it will be such a good idea
[05:58] <ryanakca> ok... figured it out... it's a choice between apache and euchre... I installed apache from source, so I'm fine :)
[07:41] <ogra> quidam--aWay, please turn off public away messages in ubuntu channels
[07:42] <quidam--aWay> ogra, sorry
[07:42] <ogra> np :)
[10:13] <allee> raphink: after last week end you're are an FAI expert, right?
[10:13] <allee> uh, wrong channel, sorry
[10:13] <raphink> haha
[10:13] <raphink> well I'm much better at it for sure
[10:14] <ogra> allee, why ? fai is in universe ;)
[10:14] <allee> ogra: need to find out if fai fits my needs ;)
[10:14] <raphink> allee: what are your needs?
[10:15] <allee> raphink: automtic install of independet hosts (no nfs), with later management of config files
[10:16] <raphink> then FAI/Cfengine is what you need indeed
[10:16] <allee> ah, cool I remembers from long time ago that it used nfs
[10:16] <raphink> yes
[10:16] <raphink> it uses nfs for the PXE boot
[10:17] <ogra> preseeding should suffice as well, at least in ubuntu ...
[10:18] <allee> raphink: eh?  So instead of mounting, e.g. a CDROM, it mount something like an installation image via nfs?
[10:19] <raphink> well  no
[10:19] <raphink> it boots the client using the NFS root
[10:19] <raphink> delivered through PXE boot
[10:19] <raphink> the client boots with PXE, gets a kernel and a minimal boot environement on the NFS root
[10:19] <raphink> then it declares classes using the FAI client
[10:20] <raphink> and then the FAI server sends it packages to install depending on the classes it declared
[10:20] <raphink> then you can run scripts for config and such (perl, bash, cfengine, whatever)
[10:20] <raphink> and you can use the classes defined in the FAI to pass to cfengine or to other scripts
[10:21] <allee> ah, so cfengine is not an integrated part
[10:21] <raphink> well you add cfengine scripts to FAI
[10:22] <raphink> so they are run as part of the FAI install
[10:22] <allee> k
[10:22] <raphink> then you can use softupdate to update your machines
[10:22] <raphink> and fai-updater as a nice centralized tool for that
[10:23] <ogra> well, you can as well do the same with a simple preseed file ... wthere is the advantage of fai here ?
[10:23] <raphink> ogra: how do you mean?
[10:23] <allee> ogra: did type faster than me :)
[10:23] <raphink> what is preseeding?
[10:23] <ogra> raphink, i can replace the complete fai class stuff with a preseed file ...
[10:23] <allee> raphink: what's the advantage of FAI+cfengine combo compared to preseed+cfengine
[10:24] <raphink> what is preseed?
[10:24] <ogra> raphink, ubuntus way to do mass deployments :)
[10:24] <raphink> how so?
[10:24] <ogra> preseed means that debconf allows you to set key value pairs for every debian package (including d-i)
[10:24] <allee> ogra: you use preseeding?
[10:25] <ogra> we use per package preseeding in ltsp ... which i maintain
[10:25] <ogra> and i use a preseed file for the edubuntu CD
[10:25] <raphink> ogra: I don't see how that allows to install tuned machines via PXE
[10:25] <azeem> ogra: how do you select the set of packages to install on a particular box?
[10:25] <raphink> hi azeem
[10:25] <azeem> hi
[10:25] <ogra> raphink, what exactly do you tune ? package selections and configs, no ?
[10:25] <allee> raphink: pxe -> netboot.tar -> log preseed file -> stops debconf to ask question
[10:25] <allee> s/log/load/
[10:26] <ogra> azeem, with an individual preseed file ?
[10:26] <raphink> ogra: yes, depending on static and dynamic classes, that can be defined by scripts
[10:26] <allee> hi azeem
[10:26] <raphink> allee: you can only install one type of machines with that
[10:26] <raphink> or do I misunderstand how it works?
[10:27] <raphink> with FAI, there is not one file describing the packages to be installed
[10:27] <raphink> there are multiple classes
[10:27] <allee> raphink: no,  I use postinstall scripts to do anything special (depending on hostname)
[10:27] <raphink> that can define which packages to install depending on the belonging to groups, arch, type of network card or whatever else
[10:28] <raphink> it also defines how to partition the drives
[10:28] <raphink> allee: so you have to modify the packages
[10:28] <azeem> the question is whether you really need that flexibility for your needs
[10:28] <raphink> azeem: yes indeed
[10:28] <allee> raphink: right so classes reduce overhead.   But AFAIR cfengine uses the classes concept too
[10:28] <azeem> allee probably installs a set of identical boxen
[10:28] <raphink> I personally do, for my pool of machines
[10:28] <raphink> allee: yes, and taht's the good point, FAI can forward its classes to the cfengine scripts
[10:29] <raphink> so that you only define the classes once
[10:29] <raphink> allee: cfengine won't let you install packages depending on the classes though
[10:29] <raphink> and one important thing for me: cfengine only executes commands on the client, not on the server
[10:29] <raphink> so if you want to generate conf depending on parameters on the server side
[10:30] <raphink> it's better to have FAI run some perl/bash/python/php script before it runs the cfengine one that will merely deploy the generated conf
[10:30] <raphink> but then as azeem said it depends on your needs
[10:30] <raphink> whether you need a pool of identical machines
[10:30] <raphink> or very similar
[10:31] <raphink> or you need a pool with 1000 machines belonging to at least 10 different classes
[10:31] <raphink> and then FAI is very useful
[10:31] <allee> ~ 80 hosts  ~ 5 classes,   of dozend of different  hardware ;)
[10:32] <raphink> I'd got with FAI for that still allee
[10:32] <raphink> all the more that you can use softupdate afterwards on these machines
[10:32] <raphink> preseeds will only allow you to install the machines once
[10:32] <raphink> not to keep them up-to-date later
[10:32] <ogra> nope
[10:32] <raphink> with packages that is
[10:32] <raphink> unless you use package tricks in cfengine
[10:33] <ogra> it will also help you doing the complete setup
[10:33] <kmilo> Hi
[10:33] <raphink> like module:pkginstall
[10:33] <allee> raphink: how are post install updates handles.  E.g. all hosts should have pkg x + y now too and pkg z not anymore?
[10:33] <raphink> allee: from what I know, you change the list of packages by classes
[10:33] <raphink> and run softupdates
[10:34] <raphink> haven't really experimented with this side yet
[10:34] <ogra> well, i'd rather preseed cron-apt to run daily and do the update itself ;)
[10:34] <allee> 'k   can I alter support dapper and edgy from same FAI server or do I need a now one
[10:34] <allee> +?
[10:34] <raphink> then you can also do some kind of cfemerge like they did in my company ;)
[10:34] <raphink> deploying the sources with cfengine and building them with the shellcommands ;)
[10:35] <raphink> ogra: then you don't know what it installs when it performs upgrades
[10:35] <raphink> most sysadmins don't want that
[10:35] <ogra> it updates whats available
[10:35] <raphink> they want to know exactly what is installed and what it might impact
[10:35] <allee> ogra: ah, right: preseeding pkgs (after installation).  How this done?
[10:35] <ogra> so i let mail apt-listchanges the changes to me
[10:35] <raphink> and manually choose to perform security updates or not
[10:35] <ogra> but i have a lot less work
[10:36] <raphink> hmm
[10:36] <ogra> allee, with a preseed file you set key/value pairs for debconf options
[10:38] <ogra> ubuntu even has a gui to create such a file for the installer ;)
[10:38] <ogra> system-config-kickstart ;)
[10:38] <allee> ogra: this kickstart derivative?
[10:38] <ogra> its really only the glade file from kickstart ;)
[10:39] <ogra> the backend produces a preseed file for netinstalls and the like
[10:39] <allee> ogra: does it now support all preseed options?  In middle of dapper devel cycle it didn't
[10:40] <ogra> allee, no idea, i never used it, but i guess it does ... Kamion maintains it ...
[10:40] <allee> 'k
[10:42] <raphink> I'm sure I don't need preseed now :)
[10:42] <raphink> although I reckon it's a simple way to install identical machines
[10:42] <allee> ogra: about preseeding pkgs:  Is there a tool to merge a pkg preseed file into /var/cache/debconf/config.dat ?
[10:44] <allee> raphink: I have a more closer look to fai
[10:44] <raphink> mhm
[10:48] <crimsun> woot, a Breaks field for dpkg
[10:54] <LaserJock> crimsun: yeah, I don't quite get what that means
[10:57] <allee> crimsun: Breaks field?
[10:57] <crimsun> allee: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackageDependencyFieldBreaks
[11:02] <shawarma> I've got another merge, if there are any takers: http://www.linux2go.dk/edgy-merges/mail-notification-merge.diff
[11:03] <crimsun> sure, give me a sec
[11:04] <bddebian> crimsun: Oh sure, help everyone but me with axiom.. ;-P
[11:06] <shawarma> bddebian: What's the problem?
[11:06] <bddebian> shawarma: It's ugly :-)
[11:06] <shawarma> bddebian: The merge?
[11:07] <bddebian> shawarma: It FTBFSs  I can fix the C generated errors but it stops building one of the object files and I can't figure out why
[11:07] <shawarma> bddebian: gimme a sec, I'll just download it.
[11:08] <bddebian> shawarma: It's 40Mb of source :-)
[11:08] <shawarma> bddebian: Yeah.. and merges.ubuntu.com isn't the fastest host in the world, apparantly.
[11:09] <shawarma> bddebian: I've got 100Mbit/s, so it's not my end that's slow. :-)
[11:09] <bddebian> shawarma: Just pull it from packages.qa.debian.org :-)
[11:09] <shawarma> bddebian: Nah.. I'll rather wait a little using grab-merge.sh than have to do stuff manually. I'm a lazy bastard, you know.
[11:12] <bddebian> shawarma: The merge will be useless
[11:13] <shawarma> bddebian: Oh, well. At least I got the source I need.
[11:15] <shawarma> bddebian: The previous merge seems to consist of a s!/usr/X11R6!/usr!g ... And that doesn't do the trick now?
[11:16] <allee> crimsun: why can debian think positive and use Requires: x (>> whatever) instead of Breaks: xy (<<whatever) ;)
[11:16] <bddebian> shawarma: Try it if you like
[11:17] <shawarma> bddebian: Will do as soon as the download finishes.. Sheesh!
[11:18] <bddebian> shawarma: Your first problem is going to be build-depping on xfree86-common :-)
[11:19] <shawarma> bddebian: Oh...
[11:22] <shawarma> bddebian: I see now why you call it ugly. :-)
[11:23] <shawarma> bddebian: Complete with CVS directories and everything.
[11:24] <bddebian> Oh and upstream has been dead for almost 2 years too :-)
[11:24] <LaserJock> oh, I was just going to ask you what the current upstream version was
[11:26] <shawarma> The clean target of debian/rules tries to build a bunch of stuff.. Madness all around.
[11:26] <hub> I have uploaded a new version of hugin
[11:27] <hub> that has a better licensing for vigrA
[11:34] <hub> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2797 <- new hugin version with licensing issues fixed
[11:34] <hub> can anyone review it?
[11:34] <hub> please
[11:37] <crimsun> hub: you said you've already uploaded it?
[11:38] <hub> crimsun: it got rejected for licensing issues
[11:38] <hub> crimsun: upstream addressed them
[11:38] <hub> libvigra was non-free
[11:38] <hub> now it is MIT-style
[11:38] <allee> hub: you have to include LICENSE_JHEAD in copyright
[11:38] <hub> allee: it is in there
[11:39] <allee> hub: just two paragraphs? cool ;)
[11:39] <hub> yeah
[11:39] <hub> the license file is also in the package
[11:40] <bddebian> Ack, I gotta go home.  Later folks
[11:40] <crimsun> libgtk2.0-dev is pulled in by libwxgtk2.6-dev
[11:40] <allee> hub then remove (see * file).  Everything has to be in copyright or /usr/share/common-licenses/
[11:41] <allee> hub: notify upstead that they use of FSF address
[11:41] <bddebian> shawarma: I will probably be back on in a couple of hours if you haven't given up by then ;-)
[11:41] <hub> allee: copyright has everything
[11:41] <hub> allee: both non-standard license
[11:42] <hub> I'll set that square more deeply
[11:42] <crimsun> hub: any reason for dh_compat 4?
[11:42] <hub> crimsun: legacy I suspect
[11:42] <hub> what does 5 provide?
[11:42] <hub> I can upgrade, not a problem
[11:43] <crimsun> hub: important is probably the changed semantics of dh_strip
[11:43] <allee> hub: yep. I understand but the '(see xxxx file)' seem to indicate that there is more.  So I suggest to remove it or replace it   with Copy of xxx file:
[11:43] <crimsun> hub: it's not critical to use v5 if you don't wish
[11:43] <hub> allee: yeah, I get it
[11:44] <hub> I should put the vigra copyright
[11:46] <shawarma> crimsun: Thanks for reviewing and uploading my merge.
[11:46] <crimsun> if you're going to upload a new source package, I'd adjust debian/c{hangelog,ontrol}
[11:46] <crimsun> and debian/compat
[11:47] <crimsun> shawarma: np
[11:49] <hub> crimsun: ok
[12:03] <ryanakca> are there any easy to package packages that need packaging? (nothing too complicated... just to get me used to packaging... I've done typespeed allready... )
[12:06] <crimsun> well, probably.
[12:06] <zul> hi crimsun
[12:06] <crimsun> hi zul